Justice Society of America #16: Discussion and Review Thread

[Binker]

By Nathaniel Ruff (also known as Binker, Binker2 and Nate on many forums)

JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA #16

Written by Geoff Johns and Alex Ross
Art and variant cover by Dale Eaglesham
Cover by Alex Ross
Edited by

PLOT:
The beginning of the end of the ever-growing Justice Society starts with a new storyline! In the first chapter of "Gog," meet Earth's future savior — the one, true Gog — as he offers the Justice Society of America something many of the members can't refuse. But the controversial goodwill threatens to splinter the team, and it's up to Alan, Jay and Wildcat to hold it together.

REVIEW:
Issue #15 marked the end of the "Thy Kingdom Come" arc; well I should say it ended the first part of "Thy Kingdom Come" arc, that started with Issue #9. Issue #15 was also another exciting issue of JSA overall. It had action, moments, and a surprise that kept me going from beginning to end. The surprise ending, and the coming soon page (a habit of Geoff Johns), made me not wait for the future issues we would get of the JSA title. And now, we begin the new arc (aka part 2 of "Thy Kingdom Come") titled "One word, Under Gog". Let's get this new arc started!

If there is one thing about Gog in this first issue of the second part of the "Thy Kingdom Come" storyline, it's confusion. The confusion stems from the fact that Gog doesn't even quite come off like a villain. Of course, this might change as we're in the first issue, but even possible villains are followed by hints from the artists or writer (or both). There doesn't seem to be that at all, though. The explanation relating Gog to the Kingdom Come Superman comes from the fact that this Gog is from the Third World, knew everything from anything such possible futures to alternate timelines (the Kingdom Come Earth being one of them), and when William Matthews grab the staff, he was given all the powers and what Gog knew and had and it drove him mad. The reason why he is dead was because Gog took all that back from him. He says disease could've killed him, and it looks to have when Gog took everything back. But, even though this is a comic book, and written by Geoff Johns, is he what he says he is? Well, that's part of the confusion. Even if his story may not be bought by the JSA, he does save a tribe from death, and he makes Damage unscarred and better. So he could be a good guy like he says he is, but as we have all learned, there are possible theories that say otherwise. Is he, isn't he, well it is the job of the rest of the story to answer us.

Overall, this issue sets up the story of Gog for this storyline. And actually, we have a subplot too: Black Adam. He appears and we're given the first hint of the return of Isis, something seen in the "coming soon" page from issue #15. Back to Gog, we have questions than answers, even the question of "is he what he says he is?” Is he a good guy? We don't know. After the issue settled with my head, I have to give it an "okay" rating. It was bad; it's just that there wasn't really any spark to the whole thing. Yes, the story is still interesting, but there wasn't enough for its first part. So to that end, "okay" is the rating. But looking at the cover to the next issue, I predict a "yay" for that.

RATING: Okay

Next Issue: The JSA's allegiance to Gog splits the team down the middle!

[ultramandingo]

......." he smiling - that so creepy " - loved amazing man "translating" for mr terrific

[reflecto]

After the last disappointing issue, this one was a definitely a homerun!! I was so pleased to see the dedication to character return after the pointless slugfest we sat through two weeks ago.
So many great moments in this issue! Markus "translating" for Michael was a big highlight.:biggrin: I loved Damage's internal monologue and the better look we got at who Lightning is as a person. The Black Adam section was fantastic.
This issue was just a great read all the way through that (as usual) ended too soon and left me hungry for what comes next!

[COMIC GEEK]

well at least grant is back to normal. always wanted to see what he actually looked like under the mask.

then again maybe him being back to normal wont be lasting forever.

[Sean Walsh]

well at least grant is back to normal. always wanted to see what he actually looked like under the mask.

then again maybe him being back to normal wont be lasting forever.

It's Damage. We've seen his face (albeit, he was a bit younger then) a lot over the years.

And I have a hunch that, if there is an ulterior motive here (I'm a paranoid pessimist - there's ALWAYS an ulterior motive, everywhere :tongue: ), Grant will either be torn between both camp, and eventually pick the JSA, or blindly support Gog until he sees that he's wrong.

[COMIC GEEK]

It's Damage. We've seen his face (albeit, he was a bit younger then) a lot over the years.

And I have a hunch that, if there is an ulterior motive here (I'm a paranoid pessimist - there's ALWAYS an ulterior motive, everywhere :tongue: ), Grant will either be torn between both camp, and eventually pick the JSA, or blindly support Gog until he sees that he's wrong.


no silly, I meant what he looked like under the mask after ZOOM did a # on him

[Sean Walsh]

no silly, I meant what he looked like under the mask after ZOOM did a # on him

They never showed that? I thought they had earlier in this JSA run (or perhaps, they teased it)...

And did they even explain when Zoom damaged (pun intended?) his face? Or are we to assume it was somewhere during that big INFINITE CRISIS #7 smackdown in Gotham?

[reflecto]

And did they even explain when Zoom damaged (pun intended?) his face? Or are we to assume it was somewhere during that big INFINITE CRISIS #7 smackdown in Gotham?
It was very clearly shown exactly when that occurred. It was during the attack on the Freedom Fighters in IC #1. The whole thing happens on panel, but we don't see the aftereffect.

[brundlefly]

And did they even explain when Zoom damaged (pun intended?) his face? Or are we to assume it was somewhere during that big INFINITE CRISIS #7 smackdown in Gotham?

Zoom jacked up Damage's face during the massacre of the Freedom Fighters in IC #1.

I voted 'yay.' Lots of good stuff in this issue: the back-and-forth between Amazing Man and Terrific, the return of Black Adam, Gog's creepy smiling and benevolence, some informative Gog/Magog backstory, and surly Damage getting a facelift. Looking forward to #17.

BTW, I can't recall, but have we seen that eye-in-the-pyramid tattoo on Lance's bicep previously?

[trickster]

So benevolence is creepy and violence is OK...

[COMIC GEEK]

They never showed that? I thought they had earlier in this JSA run (or perhaps, they teased it)...

And did they even explain when Zoom damaged (pun intended?) his face? Or are we to assume it was somewhere during that big INFINITE CRISIS #7 smackdown in Gotham?


all you can see and have seen was just around his eyes

[Agent_Torpor]

GOG = major pussy. He better get all apocalyptic next episode. No more of this village building crap.

[brundlefly]

So benevolence is creepy and violence is OK...

Heh, bad sentence structure on my part. I didn't mean that Gog's benevolence was creepy. But an imposing stone-faced giant in armor and a horned helmet constantly grinning like that was pretty off-putting. In a good way, since it defied expectations.

[reflecto]

GOG = major pussy. He better get all apocalyptic next episode. No more of this village building crap.It's called complex storytelling. Not the black-and-white cheapness you might expect from a lesser writer. The problems Gog presents are challenging intellectually and philosophically as much as anything else.

[Hawkman]

BTW, I can't recall, but have we seen that eye-in-the-pyramid tattoo on Lance's bicep previously?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was shown in his first appearance. I think he even makes mention of it as appearing when he initially got his powers.

Anywho, awesome issue. I'm really anxious to see what comes next from Gog. The obvious route is that of course he'll go bad, but if so I'm still curious as to how and why. Could be that he thinks his way is the only way, and goes medieval on all unbelievers. However, Johns could pull a 180 on us and make the guy actually good, disturbing grin and all, but what would ultimately happen to him after that, I've no idea.

I'm also interested to see what Gog will promise and/or give to everyone else. Power Girl's trip to Earth-2 is most likely going to come out of this. Hawkman, I imagine might get promises of Shiera's, Hector's, or possibly both's return. For Alan, Jade would probably be the most tempting lure, while Mr. T, if he chooses to actually trust the thing, might start yearning for his wife. I'm just really excited to see how it all plays out, though, as depending on the extent of Gog's power, the possibilities of what he could promise each member of the team are intriguing to think about. And if he ultimately does turn out to be evil, you know there's going to be some horrific twist to all the "blessings" he grants somewhere down the line.

Then there's Black Adam. We didn't see it on panel, but I don't imagine it took him long after seeing that flower bloom to put two and two together. I hope Faust is watching his back, because I imagine he'll have Teth breathing down his neck very soon.

So as a setup issue, this was just about perfect. I honestly can't wait for the next installment, which is typically true of Justice Society for me anyway, but this time even more so. Also have to give a shout out to Pasarin's work here, as once again I can barely tell the difference between his pencils and Eaglesham's. And even though I don't usually care for his work, Ross' interior spread was a nice nod to the scene in DC: Universe #0, as was Johns' writing on those two pages. Good stuff all the way around.

[Agent_Torpor]

It's called complex storytelling. Not the black-and-white cheapness you might expect from a lesser writer. The problems Gog presents are challenging intellectually and philosophically as much as anything else.

I have no fear that Johns will give us some depth to this so-far happy shiny god called Gog that wants to spread joy and light.

And if you're wondering why the art in this issue looked so damn good, it was because Eaglesham didn't do it! Zounds!

[reflecto]

And if you're wondering why the art in this issue looked so damn good, it was because Eaglesham didn't do it!This statement makes no sense since Dale Eaglesham is one of the best artists in comics.

[brundlefly]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was shown in his first appearance. I think he even makes mention of it as appearing when he initially got his powers.

Thanks. I was pretty sure that I had seen it before on him, but I was drawing a blank.


Anywho, awesome issue. I'm really anxious to see what comes next from Gog. The obvious route is that of course he'll go bad, but if so I'm still curious as to how and why. Could be that he thinks his way is the only way, and goes medieval on all unbelievers. However, Johns could pull a 180 on us and make the guy actually good, disturbing grin and all, but what would ultimately happen to him after that, I've no idea.

I'm also interested to see what Gog will promise and/or give to everyone else. Power Girl's trip to Earth-2 is most likely going to come out of this. Hawkman, I imagine might get promises of Shiera's, Hector's, or possibly both's return. For Alan, Jade would probably be the most tempting lure, while Mr. T, if he chooses to actually trust the thing, might start yearning for his wife. I'm just really excited to see how it all plays out, though, as depending on the extent of Gog's power, the possibilities of what he could promise each member of the team are intriguing to think about. And if he ultimately does turn out to be evil, you know there's going to be some horrific twist to all the "blessings" he grants somewhere down the line.

Yeah, I'm getting a "Needful Things" vibe from Gog's no-strings gift giving. He seems awfully nice now, but what will Damage and other JSA members do for him later in order to get to keep the gifts that he gives them...:biggrin:


Then there's Black Adam. We didn't see it on panel, but I don't imagine it took him long after seeing that flower bloom to put two and two together. I hope Faust is watching his back, because I imagine he'll have Teth breathing down his neck very soon.

I'm curious as to whether or not BA's return weaves into the current main story with Gog or if it's a separate parallel story, with him pursuing Isis & Faust while the JSA deals with Gog. The teaser from last issue indicates that he may already be reunited with Isis by the time the JSA encounters him again.

[FemGeek]

Really liked this issue. JSA's been pretty good since the relaunch. Can't wait to see how it plays out. I'm kinda glad Grant got his face back, but I can't help thinking it'll come with a price. Also very happy with an appearance by Black Adam.

[Hawkman]

Yeah, I'm getting a "Needful Things" vibe from Gog's no-strings gift giving. He seems awfully nice now, but what will Damage and other JSA members do for him later in order to get to keep the gifts that he gives them...:biggrin:
Nice reference; I love that book. And yeah, I'm sort of getting the same vibe, what with the way Gog seems to be ignoring Mr. Terrific, a noted "unbeliever," but understands perfectly everyone else, particular Amazing Man, who in contrast appears to have a great deal of faith. Definitely a "you scratch my back..." sort of feel to all this, if only just vaguely at this point.

[Fatguy]

I loved this issue, definitely one of my favorites of the new launch :cool:

It's an excellent curveball, instead of typical giant God brawl, we're presented with a charming and kind hearted deity. Great stuff, and whoever it was that filled in definitely did an excellent job.

I suppose when you think about it though, it makes sense for Gog not to necessarily be evil. It's been a while, but wasn't Magog a "hero" in Kingdom Come, at least until his guilt sort of drive him nuts?

[jtd]

I liked it, too. This unfolding Gog/Magog story is really interesting.

Now...(maybe this has been brought up before), but isn't it cool how Johns is adding all these 'new' legacy characters to the JSA, that were shown in the "Kingdom Come" series as members of the different factions? Who do we have so far?

- Lightning
- Jakeem Thunder (?)
- Wildcat (feral)
- new Starman
- Cyclone (the female Red Tornado)
- female Judomaster

Then we have Red Arrow appearing regularly in JLA. And now Johns has Atlas making an appearance in Superman.

-Peter

[Suzanne]

It is. I'll add Black Canary & Green Arrow's marriage to your list. They're hints that KC could become canon.

[StumboTheGiant]

Loved this issues. This is the best book being put out period. I just hope Superman stays around after this story is done. I think its cool having him in the book.

[Shellhead]

If Gog is such a nice deity, why did he utterly destroy his confused lackey in such a painful manner? I bet that he's radiating some kind of aura that works on the section of the brain where religious thoughts are stored. This story is interesting, but I'm beginning to resent the decompressed pace. Most of last issue was a big pointless fight scene, kind of like that one between Neo and Mr. Smith in the second Matrix movie that went on forever until they both realized that they couldn't win.

[Joe Acro]

They're hints that KC could become canon.
I think it's more that we're building to a Kingdom Come-like event. Kingdom Come itself was Earth-22. Now we have two refugees (technically one, since Starman was from elsewhere) on New Earth. Yes, similar characters and concepts are popping up, but the work as it was cannot take place in the current DC universe.

I enjoyed the issue, but I'm a little disappointed in Damage. He joined the JSA not out of remembrance to the Freedom Fighters (which would make sense, I think--especially since he received some training from the Human Bomb), but essentially just to be somewhere safe. It just makes him seem like even more of a jerk.

Also, I don't remember seeing mention of the original Atom having Damage-like powers before. Is this something from the Golden Age or a more recent retcon? In either case, how did his powers work?

[Jack Zodiac]

I have no fear that Johns will give us some depth to this so-far happy shiny god called Gog that wants to spread joy and light.

I'm glad Gog turned out to be a peacenik Old God instead of some angry, apocalyptic blahblahblah. It's not what I expected, and that alone is enough to make in interesting, but also- Johns has an opportunity, should he ignore the itch to create seamless continuity, to tell a really impressive story about humanity and hope with an actual, factual god walking the Earth and making miracles happen. It's already a lot deeper and more intriguing than you're giving it credit for. Or, you just didn't like the way things turned out. Myself, if Gog winds up being some wolf in sheep's clothing and actually gets all apocalyptic on humanity, I'll be disappointed in Geoff.

And if you're wondering why the art in this issue looked so damn good, it was because Eaglesham didn't do it! Zounds!

It was decent. It wasn't "damn good," but it wasn't horrible, and in fact, some of the scenes were great- like Black Adam calling down the thunder, but especially Gog's scenes, my favorite being his scale shot with the flock of bird landing on his shoulder and then taking off when he starts talking. It adds more volume to his dialogue than just his giant bubbles and oversized type print. Fernando's weakness is in distance and detail. Some of the scenes were just plain bad, with awful detail in Lance and Kara's faces, and a really bad perspective of Hawkman flying. But then there was Ross' splash page of Gog's expulsion from the Third World and into the "third world," which was awesome.

Good issue, though. I hope it continues being more than just superheroics.

[robbieglenn]

If were talking about KC seeping into New Earth, isnt Alan wearing the Green armour now, like the one he wears in KC?

[COMIC GEEK]

If were talking about KC seeping into New Earth, isnt Alan wearing the Green armour now, like the one he wears in KC?


I initally thought from the previous month when gl had that armor on that it was indeed the gl from the kingdom come earth.

now that would have been sweet

[nj06]

I thought it was a good issue as well. I like how Gog seemed so free and happy to be alive especially with the birds flying around him and all.

So to clear this up for me, Alan Scott in the green armor and Obsidian were not there KC counterparts?

[COMIC GEEK]

So to clear this up for me, Alan Scott in the green armor and Obsidian were not there KC counterparts?


yeah i dont think so pal

[jtd]

I'm glad Gog turned out to be a peacenik Old God instead of some angry, apocalyptic blahblahblah. It's not what I expected, and that alone is enough to make in interesting, but also- Johns has an opportunity, should he ignore the itch to create seamless continuity, to tell a really impressive story about humanity and hope with an actual, factual god walking the Earth and making miracles happen.

I thoroughly agree, Jack Zodiac. I'd love to see this take on Gog stay. A beneficial deity is sorely lacking in typical comics these days.

And...I'm confused with the Alan Scott vs. Kingdom Come GL, as well. Are they really meant to be one in the same? Same with Obsidian? How do we know?

-Peter

[LtMarvel]

Great issue. I was suprised to see Black Adam. Not suprised to see his hint about Isis, given the preview last issue.

So what's next for the JSA? Lightning can use electronics? Green Lantern no longer vulnerable to wood? Air Wave brought back together? Jade revived?

[Samy]

This was awesome.

The book has felt sort of directionless to me since the reboot and I'd actually been considering dropping it, but this issue changed my mind. It was awesome! A-grade material! I loved how Johns played against expectations by having Gog appear benevolent. He's definitely got me second-guessing -- is Gog going to turn around and show his true colors, or is he really like this? He got me feeling the exact same confusion the JSA was feeling, and that's great. I really don't know which way the JSA should go right now.

I love the "greatest desire" dangler he's giving us. While "bring back a dead loved one" is an easy route to go, I'd like to think which characters have some *other* kinds of "greatest desires", like Grant did. Steel would want to feel touch again. Lightning would want to be able to touch a cellphone or drive a car. It's interesting that the new kids seem to be designed exactly with this in mind -- with a big drawback to their powers that Gog could easily override. Big temptation. And the adults will have to show the way for the kids.

And with a Black Adam story on the way? Awesome. Nobody writes Adam like Johns, so it's great seeing the character return to the pages of JSA where Johns first built Adam's mainstream popularity. He's been sorely missed in this book's pages.

I loved that this issue was so devoid of fighting, and instead so many interesting character moments and moral dilemmas. I *loved* the intelligent issues raised, it made the book so much more than just a sit-down slug-out summer action movie. Man, if my interest in JSA was flagging, it has just been reignited with a boom!

[SlightlyMad]

Did nobody else notice that in the Alex Ross splash page of Gog's expulsion that on his left side is Lance's bicep symbol?

Could it be that Lance is destined to become Magog?!

Another great issue & I agree with everyone else that Gog's "gifts" will probably come at a price.

[Kage Kisaragi]

A then Gog spoke and he said, "Let there be chicken for all the people of the Congo." At that very moment a KFC did appear, and the people looked upon the Kentucky fried goodness and smiled. Gog saw this and knew this was good an so he invited the people to thus eat of the chicken.

Still loving these issues, hah funny to no end, and yet some what a joy to read on a deeper level.

[IvCNuB4]

And...I'm confused with the Alan Scott vs. Kingdom Come GL, as well. Are they really meant to be one in the same? Same with Obsidian? How do we know?

-Peter

There was an interview with Johns over at Newsarama where he said it was New Earth Alan .....

[Blueferret]

Did nobody else notice that in the Alex Ross splash page of Gog's expulsion that on his left side is Lance's bicep symbol?

Could it be that Lance is destined to become Magog?!

Another great issue & I agree with everyone else that Gog's "gifts" will probably come at a price.


I saw that as well. If you look at the picture it looks as though that's a whole different person than Magog.

[Blueferret]

It's Damage. We've seen his face (albeit, he was a bit younger then) a lot over the years.

And I have a hunch that, if there is an ulterior motive here (I'm a paranoid pessimist - there's ALWAYS an ulterior motive, everywhere :tongue: ), Grant will either be torn between both camp, and eventually pick the JSA, or blindly support Gog until he sees that he's wrong.

Wouldn't that end up being a replay of Albert and Adam, though?

[The Lucky One]

So what's next for the JSA? Lightning can use electronics? Green Lantern no longer vulnerable to wood? Air Wave brought back together? Jade revived?

For Jay, I'd bet it would be Impulse alive again. Which, frankly, wouldn't be the worst way of hitting the reset button on that whole mess. (The other being to have Bart possess Inertia's body the same way Rival possessed Max Mercury's.)

Here's a question: let's say, just hypothetically, that Grant's fixed face sticks around after this arc is over. Would Zoom, upon learning of this, feel the need to re-scar him? Or would he just leave him alone? After all, in his sick, demented way, Zoom really thinks he's a good guy... he honestly believes that by tormenting heroes, he's making them better in the long run. Would he attempt to destroy Grant's face again, or would the psychologist in him think that Grant isn't likely to forget the "lesson" he learned, even if the face is now back to normal, and thus leave him alone?

-D

[LtMarvel]

I don't think Zoom thinks these things out. His original attack on Damage was his way of filling out an assignment given by the fake Luthor.

Has Zoom even mentioned Damage? He helped kill the other Freedom Fighters, and might feel that met his duty instead...

[robbieglenn]

just picked this issue up today (little late I know). Wow, just an awesome read.

Gog could turn evil I guess...I mean he mentioned he made people "good", how far could his definition of good go? Make Batman good by bringing back Thomas and Martha? OMG, Gog bought Thomas back and he is Hush.

The circle is complete. haha.

[The Lucky One]

I don't think Zoom thinks these things out. His original attack on Damage was his way of filling out an assignment given by the fake Luthor.

Has Zoom even mentioned Damage? He helped kill the other Freedom Fighters, and might feel that met his duty instead...

Sure... there was that issue of JSA a few months back where some of the team cornered Zoom in Atlanta and Damage violated his parole agreement by entering Georgia to get revenge. That was where Zoom gave his reasoning for why he scarred Damage in the first place. Granted, you can argue it was an after-the-fact justification for something Luthor told him to do, but in his crazy mind, he seemed to believe it. So the question still stands: would he do it again, or assume the lesson "took" the first time?

-D

[HotRod_Tim]

Did nobody else notice that in the Alex Ross splash page of Gog's expulsion that on his left side is Lance's bicep symbol?

Could it be that Lance is destined to become Magog?!

Another great issue & I agree with everyone else that Gog's "gifts" will probably come at a price.

I noticed that too...something is definitely up there.

[Pyro]

Did anyone else notice that Lightning was not with the group who went through Gog's portal in the last issue, but this issue it's as if she was there the whole time. I wonder if it was just an art mistake last issue.