Supergirl #30 changes (Writer and Artist)

[kaelikins]

"We are actually going to make it a trinity of Superbooks - 'Action Comics,' 'Superman' and 'Supergirl' - where one book is as important as the next one. It's not going to be two books. It's going to be three books. You are going to care about Kara. You are going to like her.

I was already super-excited about his taking over the Superbook, but this quote, this makes me very happy :D Kara deserves a writer who takes her this seriously.

[WorstThingUS]

I was already super-excited about his taking over the Superbook, but this quote, this makes me very happy :D Kara deserves a writer who takes her this seriously.

But she's not getting a new writer, is she? It's just that Robinson and Geoff Johns are going to be---shocking for DC---actually communicating about what they're writing. At best what you can hope for is them to rub off on Puckett.

[Augusto]

I hope something good comes out of this.

http://www.yelims.com/IPB/Invision-Board-France-234.gif

[Usernamessd]

http://www.funnybookbabylon.com/2008/05/31/wow-kelley-pucketts-supergirl-is-going-wha/

[elise]

http://www.funnybookbabylon.com/2008/05/31/wow-kelley-pucketts-supergirl-is-going-wha/

Wow, talk about random. So... the next issue of Supergirl won't be at all what is on DC's site? Huh.

[Cicero]

I hope Kara gets a new writer. Perhaps Johns, now that he's off Booster Gold?

[cpahl2000]

I hope Kara gets a new writer. Perhaps Johns, now that he's off Booster Gold?


Me too. She needs a decent creative team. Johns and Katz could be the writers.

[cpahl2000]

If it´s true, It´s a good news.Pfeifer is a good writer and the current creative team isn´t a good one. I hope it´s true.:tongue:

[elise]

So, all of you who picked this up today... who was it, Pfiefer or Puckett?

[cpahl2000]

So, all of you who picked this up today... who was it, Pfiefer or Puckett?


Puckett.:frown:

[Usernamessd]

Puckett.:frown:

Woah really? did they change plans again??

[cpahl2000]

Woah really? did they change plans again??


Indeed they did.

[elise]

Hmm, I just read on another site (from Pfeifer himself, here (http://www.lurid.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&p=2658)) that he did indeed write #30 but it was only for that issue. Then Puckett will continue again with #31 with the story that was originally supposed to be #30.

[kaelikins]

Puckett.

Wow, strange. I picked up Supergirl yesterday as well, and it's Pfeifer.

[sabongero]

The worst thing they can do now is go from Puckett to Pfeifer. Keep Puckett who has done a decent job, given all the anomalies he has inherited in this title from previous writers.

[Johnny_Luck]

The worst thing they can do now is go from Puckett to Pfeifer. Keep Puckett who has done a decent job, given all the anomalies he has inherited in this title from previous writers.

I really wouldn't consider what puckett being decent a consistent trip to garbageville is more like it. They need a new writing team that can erase the crap from the end of issue 19 to now.

[DarkCrisis]

I picked thi sissue up after dropping the series a while back to see if anything has changed.

It hasn't.

Once again we get ANOTHER issue of "I don't know who i am or my place in the world" tale.

It;s been 30+ issues. Please find "your place" and get to it already.

[Ungenesis]

Geez, what Kara needs more than anything is a dirt nap. I don't like her - I don't WANT to like her - and if DC thinks they can get me to like her by forcing me to read her book just to keep up with Superman, well ... maybe my dollar doesn't affect them too much, but I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.

[Lorendiac]

You want the truth? I have read this series as far as #6, and then for the last two years I've just ignored it. From comments I see on the forums, I figure I'm not missing much. If I were hired to take over as the "new new new writer" on the title, I'd probably just start out on this premise:

"Okay, Kara is Kal-El's cousin. She calls herself Supergirl. She wants to do the right thing. We'll find a few villains for her to slug, fix her up with a secret identity if she doesn't already have one, and move on from there, while gleefully ignoring all the nitpicking details of any specific story she's previously had in her title -- especially anything relating to her parents, brainwashing, her hidden dark counterpart, crystal spikes, and/or romantic weirdness! Also, any story arc that begins in her title will go all the way to a conclusion completely within the pages of her title, instead of getting her trapped into 'perpetual crossover mode' with any of her cousin's titles!"

That would be my take on it -- I think. Am I crazy, or what? :wink:

[Mr. Palmer]

I feel weird... I liked both the cancer story and #30... :redface:

[elise]

Geez, what Kara needs more than anything is a dirt nap. I don't like her - I don't WANT to like her - and if DC thinks they can get me to like her by forcing me to read her book just to keep up with Superman, well ... maybe my dollar doesn't affect them too much, but I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.

No one is going to have to read Supergirl to keep up with Superman. Gary Frank (Action artist) has said that you won't even have to read both the Action and Superman titles to know what's going on, despite what people seem to think. He said that some arcs will cross over, but most won't. Basically, the titles are just going to acknowledge each other for more of a sense of continuity.

[KET]

No one is going to have to read Supergirl to keep up with Superman. Gary Frank (Action artist) has said that you won't even have to read both the Action and Superman titles to know what's going on, despite what people seem to think.

Really, I wouldn't bet on that.

The REAL reason why DC's linking up SUPERGIRL to Superman's titles is because SHE'S STILL SINKING, and fast. 30 issues later, and the current book has been falling to nearly the sales level where the previous SG series was axed.


He said that some arcs will cross over, but most won't. Basically, the titles are just going to acknowledge each other for more of a sense of continuity.

Something tells me that Frank hasn't been reading SUPERGIRL, which hasn't had much of anything resembling a consistant continuity since inception. Hard to have something when it isn't there to begin with. :wink:

[elise]

Really, I wouldn't bet on that.

The REAL reason why DC's linking up SUPERGIRL to Superman's titles is because SHE'S STILL SINKING, and fast. 30 issues later, and the current book has been falling to nearly the sales level where the previous SG series was axed.
That probably has a lot to do with it, but I still don't think that the Supergirl will be required reading to understand what's going on in the other two books (make one more apt to want to read it, probably; *have* to read it, no). I'll take a member of the creative team's word for it until I have reason to believe otherwise.

Something tells me that Frank hasn't been reading SUPERGIRL, which hasn't had much of anything resembling a consistant continuity since inception. Hard to have something when it isn't there to begin with. :wink:
I was referring to Frank talking about Action and Superman...

My point was, if you don't even have to read both Superman titles, you probably won't have to read Supergirl.

[Ullar]

Do we know what issue of supergirl this will start with?

[Johnny_Luck]

"Okay, Kara is Kal-El's cousin. She calls herself Supergirl. She wants to do the right thing. We'll find a few villains for her to slug, fix her up with a secret identity if she doesn't already have one
:

One of the only really brilliant things Kara still has going for her is she has not been forced into some stupid secret human id and gained human friends, she survived perfectly well without either of them and the idea that every hero needs human friends or to live a human style life to be happy when not fighting crime is borderline retarded and shows extremely weak writing.

Cassie(WG) getting another secret id should be reversed while we at it.

Kara needs an Edge at least some gritty bits back with the character, while i liked it a bit dark, I know some cannot handle the dark. I don't know if she needs to be dark, but she cannot be all super and spice either. also She needs to have a backbone which she lost when superman rejoined her life.

If I had my way the only times supergirl and superman would talk is in epic crossover where he shows up at most for 1 panel and asks for her help otherwise her book would be superman, batman, pg, and ww free. Its her solo title.

[Kage Kisaragi]

It seems a few of us still understand what made this book skyrocket during its first 20 or less issues.. (You can count the number of times Superman, Batman, WW appeared in those issues on one hand.) I long for the days of Joeb or Kelly... I long for exceptionally good to spectacularly awesome artwork too.

[Superboy-Prime]

Geez, what Kara needs more than anything is a dirt nap. I don't like her - I don't WANT to like her - and if DC thinks they can get me to like her by forcing me to read her book just to keep up with Superman, well ... maybe my dollar doesn't affect them too much, but I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.


A-Freaking-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just do away with her already.

[KET]

That probably has a lot to do with it, but I still don't think that the Supergirl will be required reading to understand what's going on in the other two books (make one more apt to want to read it, probably; *have* to read it, no). I'll take a member of the creative team's word for it until I have reason to believe otherwise.

Except he's not part of the creative team on ALL THREE BOOKS. Frank's merely just an artist here; does he even write on any of these crossover arcs?


I was referring to Frank talking about Action and Superman...


...which means his opinion has little to nothing to do with how SUPERGIRL will read in the future. Yes, I understood you correctly the first time.

My point was, if you don't even have to read both Superman titles, you probably won't have to read Supergirl.

If that's true, then the reason for DC linking them together in the first place will be entirely moot. Just like that ACTION/SUPERGIRL crossover back in the 80s, which also failed to stop the latter from getting cancelled.

[Lupek]

I mostly liked this. I'm happy that Kara has finally accepted her fate. I'd like to see her seek to learn more about Krypton and generally have her more involved in the Krypton/Legion space opera corner of the Superman mythos. Maybe she could catch up with the former third Kryptonian, Karsta Wor-Ul or get involved with Mon El ,Chris Kent and Zod in the Phantom Zone.

I also liked that she turned to support from Batman, Pa Kent and Jor El. I'd like to see the Fortress become a recurring setting too.

The art was nice but my preference for this book is still Renato Guedes.

[cpahl2000]

www.supermanhomepage.com/inter-action/inter-action.php?topic=ask-editor/ask-matt

I read his "Ask Matt" collun and he ansewred a fan question on Supermanhomepage that Supergirl will have a new writer.It´s still a secret but also a good news.

[Mia]

I'm glad Puckett's off the book. He hasn't a clue how to write a strong fiesty woman. I haven't picked up issue 30, but I have been pleased with Pheiffer's run on Catwoman (yes I khow it's cancelled-but it was never a hot seller anyway). So it would be nice to see him writing SG permanently.

I really would not mind seeing Joe Kelley or Greg Rucka back on the book. I also understand that Fabian Nicienza is back writing for DC. He would be a godsend in writing Kara. He really understands how to write strong powerful women.

[IamtheRock3]

One of the only really brilliant things Kara still has going for her is she has not been forced into some stupid secret human id and gained human friends, she survived perfectly well without either of them and the idea that every hero needs human friends or to live a human style life to be happy when not fighting crime is borderline retarded and shows extremely weak writing.

Cassie(WG) getting another secret id should be reversed while we at it.

Kara needs an Edge at least some gritty bits back with the character, while i liked it a bit dark, I know some cannot handle the dark. I don't know if she needs to be dark, but she cannot be all super and spice either. also She needs to have a backbone which she lost when superman rejoined her life.

If I had my way the only times supergirl and superman would talk is in epic crossover where he shows up at most for 1 panel and asks for her help otherwise her book would be superman, batman, pg, and ww free. Its her solo title.



To me I take it as just like being a Cop, CIA Agent, and Solider thing

Neither of these Jobs, are these people just those Jobs, No matter how important they are. Each one have family and friends NOT in the life, and friends and family that ARE in the life

No matter how bad things are. Both those lives part of them

Figure why should super heroes be any differnt

Good way to flesh out them, and their suporting cast

[Johnny_Luck]

except Kara already tried having the human relationship thing and it didn't work., why go back to something she tested and it didn't fly? Why does she absolutely need human friends in order to survive as a hero and live on earth? Why is it good writing to give someone something they are not to flesh them out, why cannot a writer find creative ways to a create a hero cast which she can relate to her on her off time? Why is it so impossibly to flesh out a hero unless they have out of costume time?

the idea that every single hero needs one just screams being extremely lazy in the writing department.

[WorstThingUS]

except Kara already tried having the human relationship thing and it didn't work., why go back to something she tested and it didn't fly? Why does she absolutely need human friends in order to survive as a hero and live on earth? Why is it good writing to give someone something they are not to flesh them out, why cannot a writer find creative ways to a create a hero cast which she can relate to her on her off time? Why is it so impossibly to flesh out a hero unless they have out of costume time?

the idea that every single hero needs one just screams being extremely lazy in the writing department.

She wasn't born "Supergirl" she was born Kara-Zor-El. Why on earth would her status quo be as a super-person with no friends? Was she a super-person with no friends on Krypton? Why does this make sense? Is it so strange she'd just want to spend some of her life "down" not worrying about saving lives?

This series and character has blown since day one because not one writer has looked at the circumstances and written her accordingly: she's a teenager who has just survived the annihilation of her race. She remembers it all. It happened yesterday for her. She's alone in the universe on an alien world except for her cousin who, unlike her, was raised amongst them and now worshipped by them. Because of this she's expected to follow along in "the family business" of being a "perfect hero."

The "Super-Lindsay-Lohan" period of this book under Joe Kelly (where apparently the appropriate response to being the last of your race on a primative alien world is to party and be a brat) was awful, but at least it wasn't dull. Now it's both awful and dull.

[Kage Kisaragi]

She wasn't born "Supergirl" she was born Kara-Zor-El. Why on earth would her status quo be as a super-person with no friends? Was she a super-person with no friends on Krypton? Why does this make sense? Is it so strange she'd just want to spend some of her life "down" not worrying about saving lives?


No one said she didn't have friends, she listed pretty much every other teen girl in the DCU as a friend, especially Cassie, but also Stargirl, and of course Boomer. She at least had a understanding with Grace. For crying out loud the book was just getting started, all of these relationships were done in less than what 12 issues? We have no idea the direction Kelly would have spun out into had he stayed on the book.. wont happen now since he's over at Marvel but heres to dreaming. Even by current artist standards did any of them add more to her cast? No, yeah thats what I was thinking to in fact none of them have added anything of any considerable merit since Kelly left.


This series and character has blown since day one because not one writer has looked at the circumstances and written her accordingly: she's a teenager who has just survived the annihilation of her race. She remembers it all. It happened yesterday for her. She's alone in the universe on an alien world except for her cousin who, unlike her, was raised amongst them and now worshipped by them. Because of this she's expected to follow along in "the family business" of being a "perfect hero."


Right because you're opinion is the only one that matters to DC, sorry I didn't get the memo about all the money I spent on trades and subscriptions to the being of the character didn't mean anything, and only yours mattered. Let's break this down, when Kara first arrived we GOT ALL THE SAID CRYING ANGST WE COULD HANDLE. Thank you Loeb. At the end of his run Kara had been on Earth at least 3 months if not longer. She had been on Thermisycra making tons of friends and having a good time and she coup with the change in her life, it wasn't something that just happened yesterday for her. Sure the loss will always be there but she was happy, she was happy that she was alive, and that she wasn't alone in the universe and that she might have a new purpose. That was her thing at the end of Loeb's introduction of the character back in the Superman Batman.

When Kelly launched the series it was now more of a Kara's adventures type thing. A girl going through all the similar ups and downs about life on earth while also trying to be a teenage super hero. WE HAD EVERYTHING! But because the older fans had only Linda Danvers on the brain and couldn't remove the ruby colored glasses of yesteryear from their eyes.. all anyone ever heard was constant complaining about the book because you know odler people can spend more time complaining because they already have nothing better to do but complain about the golden days of their own youth. Everyone else who didn't know or care about Linda enjoyed this new tougher Supergirl who had a darkside like normal people and yet like normal struggled to come to terms with it. Yes she was put through some crap, false memories, abusive boyfriend stalker, jealous peers, unacquainted love, rejection, family fall out, super villains, and misunderstandings, and of course the epic one shot with her trying to go to high school and fit in with normal people.


The "Super-Lindsay-Lohan" period of this book under Joe Kelly (where apparently the appropriate response to being the last of your race on a primative alien world is to party and be a brat) was awful, but at least it wasn't dull. Now it's both awful and dull.


Firstly that show how much you knew about the being of the series. It was established that be it true or false, Kara was not the most popular girl on krypton she wasn't even remotely liked. She was very much the dork, the outsider, the naive little girl who just wanted to fit in, that NEVER HAPPEN ON KRYPTON. When she got to Earth she was instantly given the seal of approve after MONTHS of supervision on the part of Superman and Batman, and again more so by Wonder Woman, only to finally be introduced to a community they instantly approved of her and would welcome her with open arms. She was finally loved by people outside of her immediate family, It is no surprise she wants to hang with Supers now, because they gave her something that normal humans and kryptonians back home didn't. Approval. She had 1 issue where she went to a party and the detractors rally behind this as if this was the status quo. She lives on her own and has no parental guidance but according to what your suggesting she should live in Clark and Lois apartment, and babysit Chris, and only go to school for any kind of social connection. She should only play Superheroine when Superman is near by and when he's not sit in her room can count the minutes until the not crisis where she can sacrifice her life... Yeah very old school and very not forward thinking. Thank you but no thanks. I'd rather have 10 years of Kelly then put up with the stuff I have seen her go through after his departure or anything remotely close to the out of date or out of touch with reality stuff that happened some 20 years ago.

Kara didn't have any of the problems you seem to be suggesting. She went out like a normal teen who doesn't go to school because she already knows way more than most teens ever will, and doesn't work because shes already rich.. Shes might sound like bad elements but they helped free the character to tell different stories and not the same hash brown stories already polluting the DCU.. Let's count how many teenage female super heroes attend school right now in DC and by the way one is already enough anymore after that and its just repetitive dribble. Cassandra Sandsmark, Rachel Roth, Miss Martian, Star Girl, I think Cyclone graduated from college already but I'm not 100% sure, she still looks like a teenager. These are just the most famous ones I know about. Thats 4 people already doing the same thing. If Spoiler goes back to Gotham, (and she will) and returns to school that will make 5. How many teenage female superheroes have their own place are financially secure and can now focus on either being a Superhero or spending some down time with their friends within the Superhero community? The one and only Supergirl. I'm not directly confronting your WorstThingUS, this is very much bigger than that.

[WorstThingUS]

the epic one shot with her trying to go to high school and fit in with normal people.

Okay, the fact you consider that story an "epic one shot" explains a lot about why you liked this book so much. If that's your level of great, then there's not much I can say to you. For me, she's been horribly written and handled since day one. From the painfully rushed initial return, to the bad "Dark Phoenix" attempt to the blandness that afflicts her today. I've got no problem reinventing her as someone a little darker than Superman. It's just that it wasn't done well at all. I got a much better sense of what Joe Kelly was trying for when I saw a little of his "I Kill Giants" book. He simply couldn't make it work here which why all I saw was "Super Lindsay Lohan."

And it's moot point since the Supergirl you liked was essentially retconned out of existence almost immediately. She had a very happy life on Krypton with loving parents. No crystal powers, no warring El brothers, no deadly Phantoms. All gone. This puts ironically puts you in the same position as the Linda Danvers fans; both groups longing for a version of Kara Zor El that simply doesn't exist any more.

[IamtheRock3]

except Kara already tried having the human relationship thing and it didn't work., why go back to something she tested and it didn't fly? Why does she absolutely need human friends in order to survive as a hero and live on earth? Why is it good writing to give someone something they are not to flesh them out, why cannot a writer find creative ways to a create a hero cast which she can relate to her on her off time? Why is it so impossibly to flesh out a hero unless they have out of costume time?

the idea that every single hero needs one just screams being extremely lazy in the writing department.


She tried for like a Day

Some Girls were mean to her and then she Quit

Thing is having a HERO cast may be hard, cause if it already known heros...Like Say Superman, Powergirl or the Flash it has a risk of overshadowing her or becoming a Team Book

I got a team Book With Supergirl in it...called Teen Titans. Powergirls gets away with that stuff cause she least the leader of the team, and there characters we dont see to much outside JSA. And even then it took years to set up.

So maybe if Supergirl suproting cast was Obscure guys, or people who didnt have a spotlight but could use some thing, then you could have a SUPORTING cast. I captailize suporting cause there Job is basicly how they interact with Supergirl, to increase her character. This is not an assemble Cast where everyone has equal footing. Book called supergirl


Plus she cant be supergirl 24/7. What does she sleep and shower in the suit. She got to have a life outside punching bad guys. So you can have the story mometum have highs and lows. So you can have her talk to people and get insight of what she thinking, expostion

All this is what a suporting cast is good for. Occasionly I want her to do Teen type things and see how that mixed with her superhero life

[Mia]

Okay, the fact you consider that story an "epic one shot" explains a lot about why you liked this book so much. If that's your level of great, then there's not much I can say to you. For me, she's been horribly written and handled since day one. From the painfully rushed initial return, to the bad "Dark Phoenix" attempt to the blandness that afflicts her today. I've got no problem reinventing her as someone a little darker than Superman. It's just that it wasn't done well at all. I got a much better sense of what Joe Kelly was trying for when I saw a little of his "I Kill Giants" book. He simply couldn't make it work here which why all I saw was "Super Lindsay Lohan."

And it's moot point since the Supergirl you liked was essentially retconned out of existence almost immediately. She had a very happy life on Krypton with loving parents. No crystal powers, no warring El brothers, no deadly Phantoms. All gone. This puts ironically puts you in the same position as the Linda Danvers fans; both groups longing for a version of Kara Zor El that simply doesn't exist any more.


Super Lindsay Lohan? Oh please! Kara hardly spent each and every issue drunk or flashing her privates or getting into car accidents.

Kara had problems sure (like most people) but she still tried to help others.

But of course that was all killed because of whinny fans like yourself who wanted to read about a one dimensional Pollyanna or Shirley Temple. It's beyond me why the companies keep kow-towing to fans with no imaginatons. Well I hope they are happy with the sales they earned.

[Johnny_Luck]

She wasn't born "Supergirl" she was born Kara-Zor-El. Why on earth would her status quo be as a super-person with no friends? Was she a super-person with no friends on Krypton? Why does this make sense? Is it so strange she'd just want to spend some of her life "down" not worrying about saving lives?


The "Super-Lindsay-Lohan" period of this book under Joe Kelly (where apparently the appropriate response to being the last of your race on a primative alien world is to party and be a brat) was awful, but at least it wasn't dull. Now it's both awful and dull.

Okay so what I get your saying is, you hated her because she was doing things your claiming they didn't have her do. You want her to have down time and act her age and act like human girls her age are, yet if she hangs out and watches movies at a friends house, or goes to a club or dancing like a normal 18 year old girl is interested in doing shes automatically LohanV2. I am sorry but there are tons and tons of girls her age into that stuff without the drugs and alcohol Lohan had with her. She was letting stress out by dancing.

and why is it odd that she wants to have down time rather than saving lives. The idea that every single hero should believe in being out every single hr of their lives looking about the streets for thugs rather than just let it come to you and then save the world. Like you said shes a teenage girl who has all this power and responsible on her shoulders and you think a girl her age would be hyped up to take it full on? give me a break a human let alone kryptontonian wouldn't even be that full blown with run ins or pushes.

She tried for like a Day

Plus she cant be supergirl 24/7. What does she sleep and shower in the suit. She got to have a life outside punching bad guys. So you can have the story mometum have highs and lows. So you can have her talk to people and get insight of what she thinking, expostion

All this is what a supporting cast is good for. Occasionally I want her to do Teen type things and see how that mixed with her superhero life

she tried for more than a week and found out that she would be treated like a loser outcast as a human as much as she was on Krypton , so she decided to be herself rather than trying to pretend to be something else and getting treated like crap while do so. Faulting someone for not wanting to be treated like dog crap and actually be themselves rather than lead a lifethat they know is a lie, is retarded.

That being said she had some really good moments where she wasn't doing the hero thing and had strong relationships with both of them, they should be her only supporting cast, thats all that was really needed to fill her non alone hero time and have great character interaction.

[WorstThingUS]

Super Lindsay Lohan? Oh please! Kara hardly spent each and every issue drunk or flashing her privates or getting into car accidents.

Kara had problems sure (like most people) but she still tried to help others.

But of course that was all killed because of whinny fans like yourself who wanted to read about a one dimensional Pollyanna or Shirley Temple. It's beyond me why the companies keep kow-towing to fans with no imaginatons. Well I hope they are happy with the sales they earned.

What part about of me not minding the idea of a darker Supergirl did you not understand? It's just that Joe Kelly's attempt sucked. It's not the concept but the execution that lacked. That was as one-dimensional a "bad girl" as this is a one-dimensional good girl. And he didn't even need his goofy crystals and "evil Zor-El" idea because at the time the Byrne cold Krypton was still in effect as Birthright hadn't occurred yet. A Kara raised there would have been far from a nice person and would have been as opposed to Superman as the Eradicator often was.

And if the sales of the "bad girl" supported by people like you were so great it wouldn't have been changed at all, now would it? Complaints without financial impact mean nothing, because money talks and whining fans can walk. Again, the irony is now you "Dark Supergirl" fans are the ones complaining about an interpretation that's gone and not coming back. How's that feel? The difference being the pollyanna fans actually won and you're currently eating their dust.

[Johnny_Luck]

Yes you're right you won, you get a horrible lollypop and candycane supergirl with a superman is god complex, which has lead sales from being steady to declining a bit every issue and unless someone steps in really soon this book is in major trouble mostly because the early idiot whiners got their way.

[WorstThingUS]

Yes you're right you won, you get a horrible lollypop and candycane supergirl with a superman is god complex, which has lead sales from being steady to declining a bit every issue and unless someone steps in really soon this book is in major trouble mostly because the early idiot whiners got their way.

I didn't win anything. As I keep saying and you keep ignoring because it suits you somehow, I hate all the versions displayed so far in this title. As I said when Loeb first brought her back, I'd sooner it had never happen than what he did. I felt the same about Joe Kelly and I feel the same now. And unless this is no longer a business, if your precious Dark Supergirl had sold better, it wouldn't have been changed. Money causes changes, not complaints.

You've become one of the sore losers you keep trying to ridicule. I say "trying" because again, they won and you lost.

[Johnny_Luck]

I didn't win anything. As I keep saying and you keep ignoring because it suits you somehow, I hate all the versions displayed so far in this title. As I said when Loeb first brought her back, I'd sooner it had never happen than what he did. I felt the same about Joe Kelly and I feel the same now. And unless this is no longer a business, if your precious Dark Supergirl had sold better, it wouldn't have been changed. Money causes changes, not complaints.

You've become one of the sore losers you keep trying to ridicule. I say "trying" because again, they won and you lost.

You're wrong. Poor sales didn't make the dark supergirl go away seeing as sales were not poor at the time.

What made the changes was Tony Bedard came aboard wanting to make her more friendly to his kids and his wife then to the people who were actually reading the book and thus said he was making changes to make her a more friendly person. It had absolutely nothing to do with people disliking dark supergirl or sales and everything to do with a 3 issue fill in artists deciding he didn't care what happened before and he would change everything to fit what he saw of her rather than what people were liking. The Puckett came along wanting to take that version and tweak it even more so in that direction with his own little clueless attitude about who she is and how she should act.

[WorstThingUS]

You're wrong. Poor sales didn't make the dark supergirl go away seeing as sales were not poor at the time.

What made the changes was Tony Bedard came aboard wanting to make her more friendly to his kids and his wife then to the people who were actually reading the book and thus said he was making changes to make her a more friendly person. It had absolutely nothing to do with people disliking dark supergirl or sales and everything to do with a 3 issue fill in artists deciding he didn't care what happened before and he would change everything to fit what he saw of her rather than what people were liking. The Puckett came along wanting to take that version and tweak it even more so in that direction with his own little clueless attitude about who she is and how she should act.

I stand corrected. But the point remains the same. Your Supergirl is gone, not coming back and in constantly whining about it you've become just like those who whined this Supergirl wasn't the one they liked. Kids, it's over. Let. It. Go.

And can you cite an interview or article where Tony says this? I'd like to read it.

[WorstThingUS]

Never mind. I found it. And he doesn't say anything about changing Supergirl to make her safe for his wife and kids. He talks about how he found her appearance to be unhealthy and he was never alone in that point of view. And he only had three whole issues anyway and they were all event crossovers. It was Puckett who wiped out "Dark Supergirl" with not one but two retconned stories about her life on Krypton and he couldn't have done it without editorial approval or maybe editorial orders.

Tony's view on Supergirl:
http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=006315

Kelly Puckett's:
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/020708puckettsg.html

If anyone can find an interview with Joe Kelly about how he saw the character, I'd love to see it.

[Johnny_Luck]

There is an interview out there where Tony makes a point that he wants supergirl to be a book that mothers and daughters can read and enjoy together and that she needed to be more friendly to fit that audience. That however is what screwed up supergirl

and if you actually remember any of the 3 fill in issues of supergirl it was Tony that destroyed everything good about her, he took away her edge, made her a cry baby who was afraid of superman because all the sudden 20 issues in she all the sudden thinks shes less worthy than he is even though Joe had her state she was just as good and believed she could do as much good as superman has.

The introduction of Superman as a consistant character and her out of the blue complex where she felt the need to call him god, be afraid of him and kiss his feet until he told her what she should be doing in Tony and even more so Pucketts run is what destroyed her.

She used to have a backbone and be a strong, indepedant women and from issue 20-28 it mostly because the Lois, Superman, Batman and other Big DC heroes book guest starring supergirl.

She had no reason to be afraid of superman in Tony's fill in issues, before she would have said, oh well I made a mistake I fix it and next time things will be different. Instead tony had her run and cry to the kents saying how she was afraid of what would happen to her by her cousin, when quite frankly she given the first 199 issues of history said she shouldn't give a shit what he thought.

The Introduction of superman as a semi main guy and even as a guest is what started the downhill trend in this book, it should be supergirls book and she should be edgy and strong, which she hasn't been since she said sorry to him for no reason at the end of issue 19.

[WorstThingUS]

There is an interview out there where Tony makes a point that he wants supergirl to be a book that mothers and daughters can read and enjoy together and that she needed to be more friendly to fit that audience. That however is what screwed up supergirl


Can anyone find this interview? Because the closest thing his interviews that I've found is that he was changing her appearance because he felt it was unhealthy. Nothing about her personality. Though I do take exception to his idea that Kara should adhere to the American dream like Clark. That makes no sense whatsoever. But the point remains he only did three issues, all of which were part of two of the worst "events" in recent memory: Amazons Attack and Countdown. Your ire should be directed at Puckett who says:

"She really either hero worshiped him or totally rebelled against him in some of the previous stuff. She was constantly arguing with and pissed off at Superman, and I could never figure out why. So I went ahead with the idea that this is happening because she’s rebelling against the idea that she can’t ever really measure up to him. So what she’s going to start to do is start to not be Superman in a skirt. It’s got to be hard to be Superman’s cousin and then be a superhero because you’re never going to be as good a superhero as Superman is. He’s Superman. By definition he’s…well, the best there is at what he does. [Laughs] "

The sad part of this is that he touches on the direction I'd personally hoped the new Kara would go in:

"She’s actually the real Kryptonian. He grew up on earth. He learned everything he knew of Krypton in crystals from Jor-El. He thinks of himself as the last son of Krypton, but she’s really the last survivor. She grew up there and knows something about it from first hand recollection and experience. It gives her a sense of individualism that she doesn’t necessarily have to listen to him."


That's a legitimate, organic reason for conflict that's always been part of the character. But all this is moot. A new writer is coming and I think it's clear that writer has to go along with whatever James Robinson and Geoff Johns are doing on the Superman books.

[Johnny_Luck]

Like I said Puckett screwed it up even more, but the events and changes done by tony were what put in the direction of being a backboneles, helpless, stupid little blonde who couldn't do anything right without superman telling her what to do and who would cry like a 12 year girl if she screwed up rather than trying to fix said mistake herself.

[cpahl2000]

Neither of the previous writer will return to Supergirl.Johns and Robinson want to do a new direction and Dc will provide a ew writer to follow their new direction, which is excellent and Supergirl will have astray, different from those months and creative teams.