Father problems

[Infra-Man]

This is a long one...

My dad and I have been getting into a lot of arguments over the last few years. Tonight before the Wire show (which was really good), my dad called me up and asked me about a Wells Fargo credit card that showed up at my parents' place. I told him that this has to be some kind of mistake since I closed out my Wells Fargo account before I moved almost two years ago. I ask him to read the letter that accompanied the card--which stated that it was a replacement card--and I keep mentioning how weird it was since I closed my account. My dad then asks me if that was a credit card I had in college and I told him that I only had one and that it was not a Wells Fargo card. I repeat how strange it is since I closed out my account when I moved.

At this point, my dad starts raising his voice and accuses me of raising my voice and being condescending. I am outdoors in public waiting in front of the stage for the show to start. I'm surrounded by a few other people, so out of courtesy I've tried my best to keep my voice quiet. My dad then says I keep talking to him like he's a child because I keep repeating things. I tell him that I was only repeating things because I was quite confused with the credit card situation. My dad then says that every time we talk the conversation winds up like this because of my arrogance, so I ask him what he means. He gets into a huff and says that I'm badgering him with questions and that I've learned nothing since college.

I ask him to calm down and he tells me he's upset with me. He adds that my brother and I are the reason he wants to leave the country, though he uses the phrase "run away from this country." He says I don't respect him. I ask him how I've shown him disrespect and he says that I don't always agree with him when we get into arguments. When I mention that people can disagree about things and still have respect for one another, my dad says, "No, Hubert, that is not the case with me."

At this point I ask him what I can do to make sure I don't upset him and he says "Hubert, didn't you learn anything in college? Don't you know how to analyze yourself?" I tell him that I'm not always the best judge of my own character so if he'd just let me know what I can do to make sure I don't upset him, I would really appreciate it. My dad says "You should know already." He adds that I have learned nothing from college, that I don't love him, and that "street life" in New York has made me an ingrate. When I ask him what he means by "street life," he groans and says "You know exactly what I mean." (I still don't).

All this time, I've kept as calm as possible because I don't want to make a scene, so I ask him what he wants me to do to make sure I don't upset him. He sighs and says "Hubert, you really don't know anything, do you?"

It goes back and forth like that for a few more minutes before the pre-band DJ puts on music and my dad hangs up on me. I block out the episode, listen to the bands, lose myself in the show, have a good time, but the confusion and sadness of the situation eats at me as I grab some falafel and head back to my apartment.

How do I deal with that and what can I do to make things better? Has anyone had similar situations?

And what do I make of the idea that my dad came to this country so my brother and I could have a better life, and yet now he says that my brother and I are the main reason he wants to leave this country?

Help me.

[escapegoat]

This sounds a lot like the type of arguments my mother-in-law and my wife have with each other.....especially the respect thing. Couple of questions:

1. Is your mother still alive?
2. Did she move to American with the family?
3. Country of origin for you?

Okay, that's 3 questions....I'm a horrible liar....

-Eg

[Infra-Man]

This sounds a lot like the type of arguments my mother-in-law and my wife have with each other.....especially the respect thing. Couple of questions:

1. Is your mother still alive?
2. Did she move to American with the family?
3. Country of origin for you?

Okay, that's 3 questions....I'm a horrible liar....

-Eg

Yeah, my mom's still alive and my mom and dad are still married and live in the Bay Area.

Both my folks are from the Philippines, and I'm assuming some of the tension may be that I'm a whitewashed first-generation kid.

[escapegoat]

Yeah, my mom's still alive and my mom and dad are still married and live in the Bay Area.

Both my folks are from the Philippines, and I'm assuming some of the tension may be that I'm a whitewashed first-generation kid.

K, so it's not any sort of post-death of a partner trauma....that's a part of the problem with my mother-in-law. She expects her kids to take care of her since her husband died 6 years ago... and demands respect when she doesn't give any at all....

I'm gonna guess that in the Philippines culture, the closeness of family is a big deal - both physically and emotionally. You've moved away to New York, right?, and what he's really feeling is that you don't respect the family anymore because you're on the other side of the continent, which is probably not a problem many families experience in the Phillipines because it's smaller in size. Because you live so far away, that also puts you far away emotionally as well...even thought it's easy to just pick up the phone and talk, it's still not the same thing as talking in the same room together.

That's my first guess?

-Eg

[Infra-Man]

K, so it's not any sort of post-death of a partner trauma....that's a part of the problem with my mother-in-law. She expects her kids to take care of her since her husband died 6 years ago... and demands respect when she doesn't give any at all....

I'm gonna guess that in the Philippines culture, the closeness of family is a big deal - both physically and emotionally. You've moved away to New York, right?, and what he's really feeling is that you don't respect the family anymore because you're on the other side of the continent, which is probably not a problem many families experience in the Phillipines because it's smaller in size. Because you live so far away, that also puts you far away emotionally as well...even thought it's easy to just pick up the phone and talk, it's still not the same thing as talking in the same room together.

That's my first guess?

-Eg

You know, that's not a bad guess. I was living in San Diego while in college, which was far enough away while within the same state, so being across the country definitely changes things.

He did mention during the argument that maybe I would be a better person if I moved back to the Bay Area. When I asked what he meant by that, he said "Nevermind" and then changed the subject.

He also mentioned how I changed for the worse after moving to New York, though he wouldn't tell me how and insisted I learn how to analyze myself.

[heystacy]

It's only my guess, but part of it is a parent losing control, and they hate that.

When you get free time call your father, and have some talks with with him. Maybe initiate some plans about spending some time together. It may soothe some things between you two.

Best wishes Infra.

[escapegoat]

You know, that's not a bad guess. I was living in San Diego while in college, which was far enough away while within the same state, so being across the country definitely changes things.

He did mention during the argument that maybe I would be a better person if I moved back to the Bay Area. When I asked what he meant by that, he said "Nevermind" and then changed the subject.

He also mentioned how I changed for the worse after moving to New York, though he wouldn't tell me how and insisted I learn how to analyze myself.

Wowzers.....cool beans. So the only question now is why you're a bad person.

Kick any little puppies in the street lately? :tongue:


Gonna run away from work now. Good luck with figuring out part two of this problem... That said, give him a good day at least to cool down before calling back....that way it looks like you've spent a lot of time thinking about what he said.... :wink: And figure out the second part in the meantime...

Cheers
-Eg

[escapegoat]

It's only my guess, but part of it is a parent losing control, and they hate that.

When you get free time call your father, and have some talks with with him. Maybe initiate some plans about spending some time together. It may soothe some things between you two.

Best wishes Infra.

Yeah, that's a good point too about the parent losing control...ties in a bit with the respect thing

[heystacy]

Yeah, that's a good point too about the parent losing control...ties in a bit with the respect thing

My parents felt like that too, but I had to make changes to better my life. In a way I think they felt insulted in spite of them knowing I was not dissing them.

[Infra-Man]

It's only my guess, but part of it is a parent losing control, and they hate that.

When you get free time call your father, and have some talks with with him. Maybe initiate some plans about spending some time together. It may soothe some things between you two.

Best wishes Infra.

Probably right about the control thing. And calling and planning something sounds like a good idea. Thanks, heystacy.

I'll definitely try to not upset my dad when I talk to next, and if things get heated, I'll try to change the subject. Maybe he'll open up a bit more and I can find out what's really getting to him.


Wowzers.....cool beans. So the only question now is why you're a bad person.

Kick any little puppies in the street lately? :tongue:


Gonna run away from work now. Good luck with figuring out part two of this problem... That said, give him a good day at least to cool down before calling back....that way it looks like you've spent a lot of time thinking about what he said.... :wink: And figure out the second part in the meantime...

Cheers
-Eg

Those rumors are not true--those dogs were full grown Great Danes, shoulder-high to Buicks.

Thanks for the words, eg. Hope things work out with your mother-in-law.

[heystacy]

Probably right about the control thing. And calling and planning something sounds like a good idea. Thanks, heystacy.

I'll definitely try to not upset my dad when I talk to next, and if things get heated, I'll try to change the subject. Maybe he'll open up a bit more and I can find out what's really getting to him.

You're welcome. :smile: Like I said, best wishes. :cool:

[shrike]

I haven't spoken with my father since I was 13, so i'm kinda short on good technique for sorting out father issues.

[section 8]

to be honest, my dad and i have litterally gotten into fistfights over less.

that said, i'm sure you and your father are like me and mine in the sence that you are family and no matter how bad things get between you two, family trumps all.
i can offer no advise except that you keep your cool as best you can when in these situations, and try not to say anything you do not mean.
remember, the next arguement could very well be the last time you ever speak to your dad, and believe me you do not want that on your conscience.

try to keep peace, but keep in mind that this is just a bump in the road, hell if you can't fight with family who the hell can you fight with?

[Infra-Man]

I haven't spoken with my father since I was 13, so i'm kinda short on good technique for sorting out father issues.

You know, it's kind of odd. My dad has threatened to stop talking to me several times before and I could never tell whether he was serious, angry at me and just wanted to say something that would get my goat, or both serious and angry at me and just wanted to say something that would get my goat.

It does freak me out a lot when he threatens not to speak to me again, especially since he's made good on that threat with his sister's side of the family (for reasons I don't agree with).

to be honest, my dad and i have litterally gotten into fistfights over less.

that said, i'm sure you and your father are like me and mine in the sence that you are family and no matter how bad things get between you two, family trumps all.
i can offer no advise except that you keep your cool as best you can when in these situations, and try not to say anything you do not mean.
remember, the next arguement could very well be the last time you ever speak to your dad, and believe me you do not want that on your conscience.

try to keep peace, but keep in mind that this is just a bump in the road, hell if you can't fight with family who the hell can you fight with?

Damn, fist fights? That's hardcore.

My dad and I haven't gone that far, but last year right before Christmas he slammed an alarm clock against the table when I told him he was acting immature for saying he didn't want to talk to me anymore. Not the best thing for me to say that evening, for sure.

And yeah, if I can't argue with my family and make up afterwards, who else can I do that with?

[CutterMike]

When you talk to your dad, be sure to let him know how much it bothers you (whatever your actual feelings) that work schedules/finances/phase of the moon/whatever means that you can't get home for Father's Day.

He may need to know that you miss him as much as he's missing you.

[section 8]

and remember he's jumping on your case because he is concerned, not because he wants to fight, unless your dad is the ecxeption not the rule, but it doesn't sound like this is the case

[Cam63]

Your dad sounds quite closeminded.

Good luck.

[Paul McEnery]

This is a long one...

My dad and I have been getting into a lot of arguments over the last few years. Tonight before the Wire show (which was really good), my dad called me up and asked me about a Wells Fargo credit card that showed up at my parents' place. I told him that this has to be some kind of mistake since I closed out my Wells Fargo account before I moved almost two years ago. I ask him to read the letter that accompanied the card--which stated that it was a replacement card--and I keep mentioning how weird it was since I closed my account. My dad then asks me if that was a credit card I had in college and I told him that I only had one and that it was not a Wells Fargo card. I repeat how strange it is since I closed out my account when I moved.

At this point, my dad starts raising his voice and accuses me of raising my voice and being condescending. I am outdoors in public waiting in front of the stage for the show to start. I'm surrounded by a few other people, so out of courtesy I've tried my best to keep my voice quiet. My dad then says I keep talking to him like he's a child because I keep repeating things. I tell him that I was only repeating things because I was quite confused with the credit card situation. My dad then says that every time we talk the conversation winds up like this because of my arrogance, so I ask him what he means. He gets into a huff and says that I'm badgering him with questions and that I've learned nothing since college.

I ask him to calm down and he tells me he's upset with me. He adds that my brother and I are the reason he wants to leave the country, though he uses the phrase "run away from this country." He says I don't respect him. I ask him how I've shown him disrespect and he says that I don't always agree with him when we get into arguments. When I mention that people can disagree about things and still have respect for one another, my dad says, "No, Hubert, that is not the case with me."

At this point I ask him what I can do to make sure I don't upset him and he says "Hubert, didn't you learn anything in college? Don't you know how to analyze yourself?" I tell him that I'm not always the best judge of my own character so if he'd just let me know what I can do to make sure I don't upset him, I would really appreciate it. My dad says "You should know already." He adds that I have learned nothing from college, that I don't love him, and that "street life" in New York has made me an ingrate. When I ask him what he means by "street life," he groans and says "You know exactly what I mean." (I still don't).

All this time, I've kept as calm as possible because I don't want to make a scene, so I ask him what he wants me to do to make sure I don't upset him. He sighs and says "Hubert, you really don't know anything, do you?"

It goes back and forth like that for a few more minutes before the pre-band DJ puts on music and my dad hangs up on me. I block out the episode, listen to the bands, lose myself in the show, have a good time, but the confusion and sadness of the situation eats at me as I grab some falafel and head back to my apartment.

How do I deal with that and what can I do to make things better? Has anyone had similar situations?

And what do I make of the idea that my dad came to this country so my brother and I could have a better life, and yet now he says that my brother and I are the main reason he wants to leave this country?

Help me.

I sympathize. Not least because at first I got really angry on behalf of you -- boy did I have some fun rows with my Dad -- but then I read it again and I think maybe I see something else going on.

I think your Dad's trying to communicate something to you that's very difficult for him. I haven't got the faintest what, of course; but look at his words.

"You need to analyze yourself" -- well, he means that as well, of course, because he feels you pulling away, and that feels bad, and you need to figure out what it is that you're doing that makes him feel bad. Um, which is growing up. You stop that! But it means something more. It means "you need to figure out what's bother me", because obviously something more than that is bothering him if leaving the country is the solution, you know what I mean?

And then there's the irrational loss of temper and the voice-raising. Something's bothering him, and damn if he's going to come right out and say it. For a start, you're supposed to know what's going on with him -- classic old school guy manoeuvre, btw.

So yeah, I think something's bugging your old man besides you growing up and pulling away, although that's probably the most of it -- why did he come to the country for the two of you if he's going to lose you? See what I mean?

And how old is he? Is he old enough to be having health problems? That might be a thing, too. Maybe somewhere in his mind, he's thinking old school, and it's you two's jobs to see him through his old age, and where the hell are you? Changing, on the street life in New York, that's where!

That's all I can pick up from what you wrote. Don't know if I'm anywhere near the target. Hope it's some use to you.

[Stressfactor]

Something else to consider -- has your father ever been to New York? If he hasn't his judgement of the city may be colored by what he sees on TV. A lot of people judge cities by what they see on TV and the movies when that is not the reality.

Perhaps, instead of going to visit HIM -- which *might* encourage him to keep pursuing trying to get you to move back into the Bay area -- you might invite him to come visit YOU. That way you could show him the life you lead, the neighborhood you live in, and reassure him that he has raised a good, solid, person who still holds to the family core values.

I know, when I first moved out my parents felt a lot better after they came to visit me and saw the pretty nice apartment I had and where I was living.

[Infra-Man]

When you talk to your dad, be sure to let him know how much it bothers you (whatever your actual feelings) that work schedules/finances/phase of the moon/whatever means that you can't get home for Father's Day.

He may need to know that you miss him as much as he's missing you.

Not a bad idea at all. I do miss him, but he's just such a difficult person to be around sometimes. There's love there, I think, but it's a really combative relationship, and one in which he's never really willing to compromise. It's a weird relationship, especially since my dad has said some repugnant things that I cannot agree with or condone or even let slide.


Your dad sounds quite closeminded.

Good luck.

He's been becoming more and more like Archie Bunker lately, actually, which is getting really troubling. The last time I saw him was a month ago when he, my mom, and my mom's family were in Souther California and I was also in Southern California for a work-related meeting and a wedding.

Somehow we got onto the topic of Hurricane Katrina and my dad said the following: "Those black people were so lazy. Why didn't they just evacuate themselves? That's what I would have done. I mean, why don't they have cars? So lazy." I went off on him for at least 10 minutes talking about the failures of the local and state government in assisting with and planning a feasible evacuation and sheltering plan for those who did not have the means to evacuate themselves. I then talked about the botched federal response in the aftermath of the hurricane and tried to discuss the minimum responsibility a government has to its citizens in the impending danger of a coming natural disaster and in the aftermath of that disaster.

My dad then says "You know, Hubert, the black community always complains even though they've always had things good." I go off on him again talking about the history of slavery and racism and how he's ignorant for saying such a thing because he has no historical perspective. We go back and forth, all of this in front of my mom's family while they're eating breakfast (they were silently chewing and looking around the room nervously) and my mom (who looked like she was about to have a heart attack from embarrassment).

[Infra-Man]

Something else to consider -- has your father ever been to New York? If he hasn't his judgement of the city may be colored by what he sees on TV. A lot of people judge cities by what they see on TV and the movies when that is not the reality.

Perhaps, instead of going to visit HIM -- which *might* encourage him to keep pursuing trying to get you to move back into the Bay area -- you might invite him to come visit YOU. That way you could show him the life you lead, the neighborhood you live in, and reassure him that he has raised a good, solid, person who still holds to the family core values.

I know, when I first moved out my parents felt a lot better after they came to visit me and saw the pretty nice apartment I had and where I was living.

My dad came out to New York with me for about a week and a half when I first moved here, though that was when I was living with my aunt and uncle (who were not really my aunt and my uncle but it was easier to call them that than to figure out the proper word or phrase for such a distant relation). It was way out in Flushing in Queens in a quiet and pretty suburban neighborhood full of houses. While my dad and I were out and about in Manhattan quite a bit, we never really gave any of the other boroughs a browse. I did that on my own after my dad left for the Bay Area.

I moved out to the Williamsburg/Greenpoint part of Brooklyn about a year ago, so maybe my dad thinks I'm living in squalor as seen on TV. Perhaps he has the notion that my new neighborhood is filled with bums warming themselves in front of flaming trashcans before mugging someone to get some meth or crack. That's not the case at all, obviously--my neighborhood is filled with a lot of young professionals and hipsters, transplants who've come to the city, and the stalwarts off the neighborhood who've experienced the changing personality of the area.

He was really angry when I moved for some reason. At my aunt's place, I was staying in a 54 square foot room. I was 15 minutes away from the closest subway stop. If I needed to get into the city, it took about 35-40 minutes (not counting the walk to the subway). One time when I was talking about moving, my dad said "Well, if your mom and I visit, where are we going to stay now?"

In a sense, moving has lessened my dad's control over me, especially since he can't call my aunt or uncle to spy on me. It was best that I left, though, especially after I learned about how much of a fucktard, grifter, cheater, and leech my uncle has been to my aunt.

[Infra-Man]

I sympathize. Not least because at first I got really angry on behalf of you -- boy did I have some fun rows with my Dad -- but then I read it again and I think maybe I see something else going on.

I think your Dad's trying to communicate something to you that's very difficult for him. I haven't got the faintest what, of course; but look at his words.

"You need to analyze yourself" -- well, he means that as well, of course, because he feels you pulling away, and that feels bad, and you need to figure out what it is that you're doing that makes him feel bad. Um, which is growing up. You stop that! But it means something more. It means "you need to figure out what's bother me", because obviously something more than that is bothering him if leaving the country is the solution, you know what I mean?

And then there's the irrational loss of temper and the voice-raising. Something's bothering him, and damn if he's going to come right out and say it. For a start, you're supposed to know what's going on with him -- classic old school guy manoeuvre, btw.

So yeah, I think something's bugging your old man besides you growing up and pulling away, although that's probably the most of it -- why did he come to the country for the two of you if he's going to lose you? See what I mean?

You know, "See what I mean" is the one thing my dad always says, and any time I say "No, I don't. Just tell me what you mean," he'll fire back with the "you should analyze yourself" line.

You're right. There's something he's hinting at but is not saying outright, and it's frustrating because I have no idea what he's getting at or what I'm doing that frustrates him so much.

And how old is he? Is he old enough to be having health problems? That might be a thing, too. Maybe somewhere in his mind, he's thinking old school, and it's you two's jobs to see him through his old age, and where the hell are you? Changing, on the street life in New York, that's where!

That's all I can pick up from what you wrote. Don't know if I'm anywhere near the target. Hope it's some use to you.

My dad's pushing 60. His brother died a year and a half ago because heart problems. My dad has high cholesterol, but he refuses to eat healthy or exercise. He dwells on the specter of his eventual death a lot, so much so that when he last went to the Philippines via a Chinese airline, he said he was worried that Chinese terrorists would blow up the plane. A lot of times he talks about his dreams not coming true, and when i ask him what those dreams are, he won't answer me.

There's a lot of sadness and loneliness about my dad. He has no friends. He severed ties with his sister's side of the family because they had a series of disagreements concerning the birth of his nephew's daughter and where the family would live. That was a sticky situation, but it's led to smaller, more intense gatherings for the holidays and a lot of palpable unhappiness on my dad's part. His co-workers think he's a jerk and he thinks his co-workers are uneducated dullards, but sometimes he slips up and calls them his friends when we talk because they're the closest thing he has to friends.

He never talks about his problems with my mom, he and my younger brother hate each other's guts, and I sometimes feel like he's taking out his frustrations about my brother on me. There have been a lot of conversations where I've had to remind my dad that he's not talking to my brother and that I'm nothing like my brother.

It's weird thinking about my dad. I keep thinking about the John Cheever story "Reunion" and that line about how the narrator's father represents both his own future and his own doom. I know I'm going to turn out something like him, but hopefully those qualities will be his more noble qualities--his work ethic, his persistence, his sense of conviction-- and not all the bad ones that have dominated him.

[Major Comma]

sometimes people seek to have control not for dominace but because it makes them feel more secure.
Sounds like he feels less secure now that a lot of the family is either gone or moved away .
crazy thought.
is there a city on the east coast that you could move to that would make travel to your family easier?
if you stayed on the east coast but was still closer to your Dad ,
its a kind of compromise .
all i am saying is that if a job opportunity that fits the bill opens up it might be something to consider .

[escapegoat]

It's sounding like your dad is facing some serious mortlity issues within himself. The lose of a brother can definitely do that to a person, whether they be famiy, spouse, or friend.

He could also be going through depression. Has he ever seeked treatment for this? Although even if he has, I'm willing to bet that he's done nothing to treat it properly. My mother-in-law has it, and she'll go on medication for a little bit, and then go off it, thinking she's okay. She has a pre-conceived notion that she'll get addicted to them and she doesn't wanna become a "drug addict", which isn't the deal with that type of medication - it's not somehing you get addicted to, it's something you need to take if you want to function better within your life. It's one of those older generation misconception kinda things.

[Ben Morgan]

sometimes people seek to have control not for dominace but because it makes them feel more secure.
Sounds like he feels less secure now that a lot of the family is either gone or moved away .
crazy thought.
is there a city on the east coast that you could move to that would make travel to your family easier?
if you stayed on the east coast but was still closer to your Dad ,
its a kind of compromise .
all i am saying is that if a job opportunity that fits the bill opens up it might be something to consider .
It's still on the other side of the country.

[Infra-Man]

It's sounding like your dad is facing some serious mortlity issues within himself. The lose of a brother can definitely do that to a person, whether they be famiy, spouse, or friend.

He could also be going through depression. Has he ever seeked treatment for this? Although even if he has, I'm willing to bet that he's done nothing to treat it properly. My mother-in-law has it, and she'll go on medication for a little bit, and then go off it, thinking she's okay. She has a pre-conceived notion that she'll get addicted to them and she doesn't wanna become a "drug addict", which isn't the deal with that type of medication - it's not somehing you get addicted to, it's something you need to take if you want to function better within your life. It's one of those older generation misconception kinda things.

My dad isn't one to apologize for anything or admit that he's incorrect about anything, so while it's very likely that he's suffering from some sort of depression, I doubt he would go in for treatment of any kind.


He called me today and told me he canceled the credit card for me. I said thank you and asked if he asked the rep about why the card was sent to me even though I don't have any accounts with Wells Fargo anymore. My dad said no and that my question was foolish and irrelevant. He then said he only wanted to say that and nothing more so we'd avoid getting into a big argument. I said "Okay, I understand." Then he hung up on me without saying goodbye.

[Infra-Man]

sometimes people seek to have control not for dominace but because it makes them feel more secure.
Sounds like he feels less secure now that a lot of the family is either gone or moved away .
crazy thought.
is there a city on the east coast that you could move to that would make travel to your family easier?
if you stayed on the east coast but was still closer to your Dad ,
its a kind of compromise .
all i am saying is that if a job opportunity that fits the bill opens up it might be something to consider .

Since I do work remotely, I could move back to the Bay Area (I'm in New York now, my folks are in California). Thing is, I don't want to move back to the Bay Area right now. I have a lot of great friends in the Bay Area, but I feel like I belong here for now. I'd probably have to stay at home for awhile as well, which would be difficult.

When I was back for there for two weeks last Christmas, my dad and I got into lots of horrendous arguments and my dad tried to run my life. He went so far as to schedule a dental appointment for me; this even though I told him not to and he said he wouldn't. We got into a big argument about that and he said the reason I canceled the dental appointment was because I cared more about my friends than I did about family (which was one of the more confusing things he's ever said). He accused me of hanging out with my friends more than I did with the family, which was not the case either: My family and I spent my first weekend back in San Francisco, and I spent at least seven nights at home with my parents, which mostly consisted of my dad and me arguing.

There is something bothering him. I could tell when I got off the phone with him earlier today. He's just not being upfront about it and I don't know how to coax it out of him. Sometimes I think he just likes making me worry about him because he knows he can ruin my day.

[Paul McEnery]

Since I do work remotely, I could move back to the Bay Area (I'm in New York now, my folks are in California). Thing is, I don't want to move back to the Bay Area right now. I have a lot of great friends in the Bay Area, but I feel like I belong here for now. I'd probably have to stay at home for awhile as well, which would be difficult.

When I was back for there for two weeks last Christmas, my dad and I got into lots of horrendous arguments and my dad tried to run my life. He went so far as to schedule a dental appointment for me; this even though I told him not to and he said he wouldn't. We got into a big argument about that and he said the reason I canceled the dental appointment was because I cared more about my friends than I did about family (which was one of the more confusing things he's ever said). He accused me of hanging out with my friends more than I did with the family, which was not the case either: My family and I spent my first weekend back in San Francisco, and I spent at least seven nights at home with my parents, which mostly consisted of my dad and me arguing.

There is something bothering him. I could tell when I got off the phone with him earlier today. He's just not being upfront about it and I don't know how to coax it out of him. Sometimes I think he just likes making me worry about him because he knows he can ruin my day.

Hmm.

That's sounding like my first instincts might have been more on the money. This sounds dreadfully abusive and controlling. Admittedly I'm hearing it from your side, so I'm a bit nervous about completely validating what you're saying, but still, there's enough smoke here to call 911.

So I'd say that your first responsibility here is to yourself, and to not let the abusive and controlling behaviour rule your life (and you seem to be doing that). What you can do to defuse it, and reopen channels of communication with your Dad, I don't know.

Tried talking to Mom?

[Sarah Beach]

I hate to say it, given your dad is only 60, and that seems an early age for an onset of dementia/Altzheimer's. But it might be possible.

The aspect that leads me to this is his assumption that he is communicating clearly, and his hostility to your questions. The fact that your questions are actually reasonable may alarm him, because it didn't occur to him that you would ask, or that they ought to be asked. Which could make him confused, and hence angry (because he doesn't want to expose his weakness of confusion).

Of course, this could be waaaaaay off base. But if it is the road things are going down, trying to be rational with him is not what will ease the way. You're going to have to pay attention to the emotional sequence that's going on, and not what he's saying. The complaints of you being too far away, and not caring about family, indicate he's feeling lonely and unneeded by those closest to him. Perhaps calling, being amiable, and then asking his advice about something (something you don't really need advice on, perhaps), and let him expound and pontificate. And express appreciation for it. I know it might sound hypocritical, but what I'm reading is that what is at issue is not actual events but emotional stuff. Even if the only problem is that he's terribly old school and NOT dealing with a beginning dementia, I think that way if interacting with him might get you better results.

When my Mom started edging into dementia, my sister (who was taking care of her) had called me for advice, because she was getting frustrated trying to reason with Mom. After she followed my suggestion of responding to the emotions going on, and not bothering to correct Mom's incorrect rationalizations, things apparently went better.

Still... dealing with parents is a sticky business. Good luck!

[Major Comma]

if my brother died and I wasnt close to my sister and i had no one I considered a friend, my lonliness would be almost unbearable.
Just a thought .

[Infra-Man]

Hmm.

That's sounding like my first instincts might have been more on the money. This sounds dreadfully abusive and controlling. Admittedly I'm hearing it from your side, so I'm a bit nervous about completely validating what you're saying, but still, there's enough smoke here to call 911.

So I'd say that your first responsibility here is to yourself, and to not let the abusive and controlling behaviour rule your life (and you seem to be doing that). What you can do to defuse it, and reopen channels of communication with your Dad, I don't know.

Tried talking to Mom?

Yeah, I'm with you with the nervousness about validating what I've said, actually. Like I mentioned, I'm not the best judge of my own character so maybe there's something I'm doing that's setting him off that I'm just not aware of.

He has been quite controlling at times, though, which is one of the reasons that my brother and him don't get along anymore--my brother lived at home for two years and hated the experience because my dad was very overbearing. My dad has even spied on my brother's financial records, bank account balances, and credit card transactions without telling my brother. When my brother finally found out and confronted him about it, my dad said "You want privacy? God damn your privacy!"

This controlling nature of his is also the reason he is not speaking to his sister's side of the family. That's a much more complicated situation that'd take a long time to go into, but it boils down to my dad being angry that the family moved out of a house we were renting to them on short notice (which is understandably upsetting) and that my dad can't go and monitor what they're doing and berate them for not doing what he wants them to do (which is not as understandable).

Funny you mention talking to my mom about this, actually. I do talk to my mom about how worried I am, but my dad hates that. During that call on Friday that kicked off this thread, my dad also said "Hubert, I don't want you talking about anything we talk about with your mom." I said, "Okay, but what have I said recently to mom about you that has you so upset." My dad replied "Hubert, I'm not going to provide you with specifics. Why, don't you trust me anymore? You always badger me with questions. You always do this."

[Infra-Man]

if my brother died and I wasnt close to my sister and i had no one I considered a friend, my lonliness would be almost unbearable.
Just a thought .

Yeah, I agree. I know that he's lonely and I feel bad for him a lot, but sometimes it's hard when you try to help someone or try to find out how you can make things better and all they do is try to push you away.

I hate to say it, given your dad is only 60, and that seems an early age for an onset of dementia/Altzheimer's. But it might be possible.

The aspect that leads me to this is his assumption that he is communicating clearly, and his hostility to your questions. The fact that your questions are actually reasonable may alarm him, because it didn't occur to him that you would ask, or that they ought to be asked. Which could make him confused, and hence angry (because he doesn't want to expose his weakness of confusion).

Of course, this could be waaaaaay off base. But if it is the road things are going down, trying to be rational with him is not what will ease the way. You're going to have to pay attention to the emotional sequence that's going on, and not what he's saying. The complaints of you being too far away, and not caring about family, indicate he's feeling lonely and unneeded by those closest to him. Perhaps calling, being amiable, and then asking his advice about something (something you don't really need advice on, perhaps), and let him expound and pontificate. And express appreciation for it. I know it might sound hypocritical, but what I'm reading is that what is at issue is not actual events but emotional stuff. Even if the only problem is that he's terribly old school and NOT dealing with a beginning dementia, I think that way if interacting with him might get you better results.

When my Mom started edging into dementia, my sister (who was taking care of her) had called me for advice, because she was getting frustrated trying to reason with Mom. After she followed my suggestion of responding to the emotions going on, and not bothering to correct Mom's incorrect rationalizations, things apparently went better.

Still... dealing with parents is a sticky business. Good luck!

Thanks, Sarah, that's good advice.

Now I just need to figure out something to ask him advice about. Thinking about it, since he was always working and emotionally distant when I was a kid, I never really asked him questions about anything or relied on him for advice. Maybe the fact I never really went to him for advice has really hurt him, especially now. It probably also aggravates him that I keep asking him questions for clarification whenever we get into fights given that he never had to put up with the constant string of "Why? Why? Why?"--that mantra of the curious child--when I was growing up.

And you know, you're right that this likely has more to do with the emotional sequence than it does with what is actually said. He did mention in that phone call Friday that he was tired of people using so many words and blabbing on and on, accusing me of talking too much (which is probably true to some extent). It'll be a little tough reading his emotions by phone alone, but I'll just need to be more attentive next time he calls.

I agree that he feels unneeded right now. In a couple of our recent conversations (which devolved into bizarre arguments), my dad usually says something like "You and your brother think you're adults now and that you don't need anything, but you don't know anything. You are both so arrogant." Maybe my brother moving out of the house and me moving across the country has made us both seem more distant. My brother's sheer anger at my dad may not help matters either--any time my brother tells my dad how angry he is with him, my dad always tells my brother, "You know, your real problem is not me but the death of your best friend at the beginning of college."

I suppose my moving was the last thing he needed right now given what's happened with his own family in the last few years (i.e., his breaking off with his sister's family, his brother passing away, my brother trying to sever ties with him, etc.). I'm usually the only one who can talk to him, put up with his shenanigans, not take it personally, get over it quickly, then talk to him again. But even then, I was still living a long way from home before the move. Maybe the time zones just make the distance more pronounced.

[Corrina]

How was your relationship with your dad growing up?

If it was a bit tempestuous, maybe he sees your moving cross-country as a rejection of him, especially when you also rejected (in his mind) the situation he set you up with there, with your relatives.

If he's controlling by nature, that will explain a lot of the hostility. If he was different as you were growing up, I'd be more inclined to worry about dementia.

And you're a good son to want to fix this. I just don't know if you can, because you can't change him. All you can do is change the way you react to him.

[Infra-Man]

How was your relationship with your dad growing up?

If it was a bit tempestuous, maybe he sees your moving cross-country as a rejection of him, especially when you also rejected (in his mind) the situation he set you up with there, with your relatives.

If he's controlling by nature, that will explain a lot of the hostility. If he was different as you were growing up, I'd be more inclined to worry about dementia.

And you're a good son to want to fix this. I just don't know if you can, because you can't change him. All you can do is change the way you react to him.

My dad wasn't around that much when I was growing up because he was always working. Same with my mom, actually. Whenever he was around, he was usually doing work in the garden. I'll admit that for awhile I didn't want to help him and felt that he paid more attention to the house and the garden than to my brother and me, but since the tail end of high school, I've made an effort to help him out whenever I was around.

There was a sense that he was trying to be controlling. He didn't beat us much--there are only two instances I remember, one involving me and the other involving my brother (an incident that he still holds against my dad)--but he did shout us down on occasion. He tried to force me into becoming an electrical/mechanical engineer for a few years, this despite my interests in books and creative things; though he did come around a few times and took me to book signings and a comic art session/conference. I did notice a few times that my dad tried to take some credit for some things I accomplished by attributing sage-like advice to himself--fabricated sage-like advice, either that or I just don't remember him imparting such wisdom to me. He was more overbearing with my brother, who at the time wanted to be an actor. Maybe overbearing isn't quite right; he was more overzealous.

About two or three years ago we got into a conversation (a non-argument for once) about his lack of presence in my life when I was growing up. He said he wished circumstances were different but at least now that I was grown up we could make up for lost time. That was one of the genuine bright spots in the last few years. Maybe some of his frustration is knowing that he's playing catch up so late in life and that maybe he hasn't left that many fingerprints on my interests or personality. And the distance doesn't help, nor do the other circumstances in his life, for that matter.

And thanks for the kind words, Corrina. I get the feeling that my dad doesn't approve of my concern most of the time.

[Paul McEnery]

Yeah, I'm with you with the nervousness about validating what I've said, actually. Like I mentioned, I'm not the best judge of my own character so maybe there's something I'm doing that's setting him off that I'm just not aware of.

He has been quite controlling at times, though, which is one of the reasons that my brother and him don't get along anymore--my brother lived at home for two years and hated the experience because my dad was very overbearing. My dad has even spied on my brother's financial records, bank account balances, and credit card transactions without telling my brother. When my brother finally found out and confronted him about it, my dad said "You want privacy? God damn your privacy!"

This controlling nature of his is also the reason he is not speaking to his sister's side of the family. That's a much more complicated situation that'd take a long time to go into, but it boils down to my dad being angry that the family moved out of a house we were renting to them on short notice (which is understandably upsetting) and that my dad can't go and monitor what they're doing and berate them for not doing what he wants them to do (which is not as understandable).

Funny you mention talking to my mom about this, actually. I do talk to my mom about how worried I am, but my dad hates that. During that call on Friday that kicked off this thread, my dad also said "Hubert, I don't want you talking about anything we talk about with your mom." I said, "Okay, but what have I said recently to mom about you that has you so upset." My dad replied "Hubert, I'm not going to provide you with specifics. Why, don't you trust me anymore? You always badger me with questions. You always do this."

Okay. You can now consider yourself validated, then. It really is all him.

Again, I've got nothing but guesswork to go on, so buckets of salt to take this shot in the dark with.

Whee, mixed metaphors are fun!

I'm guessing that your Dad's got a certain emotional and cognitive makeup that makes it hard for him to relate to others, and he needs to take control to make himself feel okay. Everyone has to do things his way, or he gets lost. And then he feels isolated. And then he's got nothing to do but beat up on himself for having the emotional and cognitive makeup that he has. And who wants to feel like that. So he beats up on everyone else instead, because anger feels better than sadness, and blaming someone else feels better than blaming yourself.

If that helps you to understand where he's coming from, as abstract and uninformed as it is, good. However, the trouble with people in that situation is that they want to draw other people into it. They need to control others, or they feel out of control.

If your Dad was to get therapy -- I know, that's not going to happen -- he'd learn proper boundaries, and he'd learn to take care of his feelings without taking them out on others. And that's what he needs, really; some remedial "look, this is what you're like, and this is what you have to do about it if you don't want to drive everyone out of your life". And really, if he doesn't do something about it, he's going to end up all on his own anyway, so he might as well. Rotsa ruck with that. I sure wouldn't want to bring it up with the man.

So again, the important thing for you is simply to recognize that something like that is where he's coming from; understanding leads to compassion, and hopefully a bit of detachment so you don't let it get to you. Nevertheless, your other family members are right, and he needs to be pushed back in his pram. His control issues are his control issues, and they're nothing at all to do with you.

Since therapy for him reeeeally isn't going to happen, that's all you can do. Step back from the situation in your own mind, and treat him like a hail shower: interesting natural occurrence, wear welly boots and carry an umbrella.

[Paul McEnery]

I hate to say it, given your dad is only 60, and that seems an early age for an onset of dementia/Altzheimer's. But it might be possible.


I was wondering that myself, actually Sarah. And maybe that is starting to kick in already and making matters worse.

Cross fingers it isn't.

[hellokittykat]

Yeah, my mom's still alive and my mom and dad are still married and live in the Bay Area.

Both my folks are from the Philippines, and I'm assuming some of the tension may be that I'm a whitewashed first-generation kid.

My ex-husband is the first Phil-Am in his family, too, and your dad sounds a lot like my former father-in-law. I'm afraid that it is partially a cultural thing. I can't really add anything to what people have already said, but I applaud you for how maturally you handled the situation on your part and your desire to make things better.

I hope things work themselves out for you Infra though. It wasn't a big deal when my sperm donor disappeared, because he was an asshole and I'm better off without him anyway, but your dad has been a part of your entire life and it would be a shame to lose that relationship. :frown:

[Infra-Man]

Okay. You can now consider yourself validated, then. It really is all him.

Again, I've got nothing but guesswork to go on, so buckets of salt to take this shot in the dark with.

Whee, mixed metaphors are fun!

I'm guessing that your Dad's got a certain emotional and cognitive makeup that makes it hard for him to relate to others, and he needs to take control to make himself feel okay. Everyone has to do things his way, or he gets lost. And then he feels isolated. And then he's got nothing to do but beat up on himself for having the emotional and cognitive makeup that he has. And who wants to feel like that. So he beats up on everyone else instead, because anger feels better than sadness, and blaming someone else feels better than blaming yourself.

If that helps you to understand where he's coming from, as abstract and uninformed as it is, good. However, the trouble with people in that situation is that they want to draw other people into it. They need to control others, or they feel out of control.

If your Dad was to get therapy -- I know, that's not going to happen -- he'd learn proper boundaries, and he'd learn to take care of his feelings without taking them out on others. And that's what he needs, really; some remedial "look, this is what you're like, and this is what you have to do about it if you don't want to drive everyone out of your life". And really, if he doesn't do something about it, he's going to end up all on his own anyway, so he might as well. Rotsa ruck with that. I sure wouldn't want to bring it up with the man.

So again, the important thing for you is simply to recognize that something like that is where he's coming from; understanding leads to compassion, and hopefully a bit of detachment so you don't let it get to you. Nevertheless, your other family members are right, and he needs to be pushed back in his pram. His control issues are his control issues, and they're nothing at all to do with you.

Since therapy for him reeeeally isn't going to happen, that's all you can do. Step back from the situation in your own mind, and treat him like a hail shower: interesting natural occurrence, wear welly boots and carry an umbrella.

That does help me put his actions in perspective, so it's helpful, but I think you're right. He's not the kind to get therapy, and maybe the only thing I can do while trying to get him to open up a bit is to be ready to weather it.

I'm still freaked out about the idea of him ending up so isolated even if it is his own doing. I mentioned he was thinking about moving back to the Philippines. He planned it out and wanted to do it a little later in life, but it looks like he's looking for a reason to move back sooner than intended. It's weird thinking about it as an inevitability, and it's even weirder thinking about whether or not my mom will move back with him when he goes, because I'm not sure that she wants to move back quite yet.

And heck, if my mom doesn't move with him and he really is all alone out there, I hate thinking about how the isolation would get to him. I also wonder if it would makes things better or worse.

My ex-husband is the first Phil-Am in his family, too, and your dad sounds a lot like my former father-in-law. I'm afraid that it is partially a cultural thing. I can't really add anything to what people have already said, but I applaud you for how maturally you handled the situation on your part and your desire to make things better.

I hope things work themselves out for you Infra though. It wasn't a big deal when my sperm donor disappeared, because he was an asshole and I'm better off without him anyway, but your dad has been a part of your entire life and it would be a shame to lose that relationship. :frown:

One of my old roommate's ex-girlfriends confirmed the thing about Filipino fathers (her dad would never admit that he was wrong about anything nor would he apologize), and I saw quite a bit of that in my uncle in Queens. Maybe I just wish my dad could change for the better.

I think the main thing that gets me about this is that bright spot I mentioned earlier, about my dad saying we could make up for lost time. There was also a time when my dad told me that one of the things he liked about me was that we could get into heated arguments and still be friends the next day. For some reason that's all changed now.

Talking about this on this board and to my friends has made me look back at my relationship with my dad in a weird way. It's like when there's all these dark clouds everywhere and in between them are these pockets of light that come down and make the ground beneath so bright and golden. And maybe those light patches aren't really that bright, but when you're stuck in a gray murk, you can't help but look back at those patches and marvel how warm the sunlight and how bright those breaks in the bad weather.

[Corrina]

What I think is happening is that you've broken through and are starting to see your father as a person, more than as "MY FATHER."

It's a very strange realization. Like meeting a person for the first time, even though you've known them all your life. At first, the flaws are more evident but, I think, as time goes by, comes understanding of their actions and appreciation of their virtues.

As Paul said, the odds of your father changing his ways are pretty damn small. Which means that while you don't live your life to please him, you can try to look at him with some compassion and try to react a bit differently to him, since he can't do the same for you.

Family is hard.

[Alan Lynch]

Man, that's rough Infra. I'm too late to try and offer any practical advice - better folks than I have this well covered already - but I just want to say that you're a good man for trying to patch this up, and for keeping your patience with your dad. Good luck to you sir.

[Infra-Man]

What I think is happening is that you've broken through and are starting to see your father as a person, more than as "MY FATHER."

It's a very strange realization. Like meeting a person for the first time, even though you've known them all your life. At first, the flaws are more evident but, I think, as time goes by, comes understanding of their actions and appreciation of their virtues.

As Paul said, the odds of your father changing his ways are pretty damn small. Which means that while you don't live your life to please him, you can try to look at him with some compassion and try to react a bit differently to him, since he can't do the same for you.

Family is hard.

That seems like sound advice and a good read of the situation. It's not like I ever had an idealized version of my dad, but he has become more of a person to me than a parent or an authority figure. It's particularly sad to see him become so irrational over time.

I have wondered if some of his anger is rooted in the fact I haven't lived my life on his terms, which would have made him much happier. And yeah, this family stuff can get kind of whack.

Man, that's rough Infra. I'm too late to try and offer any practical advice - better folks than I have this well covered already - but I just want to say that you're a good man for trying to patch this up, and for keeping your patience with your dad. Good luck to you sir.

Thanks, Alan. If anything, all of this has made me think about what I'd do as a parent (which is a scary thought) and helped me understand (somewhat) what my dad's going through.

[MartinRedmond]

Yes you're right dad, I'm sorry dad, etc as sincerly as you can til he shuts the hell up. Just remember it's HIS problems, don't take on his insecurities as yours. ;}

[Merey]

You know, that's not a bad guess. I was living in San Diego while in college, which was far enough away while within the same state, so being across the country definitely changes things.

He did mention during the argument that maybe I would be a better person if I moved back to the Bay Area. When I asked what he meant by that, he said "Nevermind" and then changed the subject.

He also mentioned how I changed for the worse after moving to New York, though he wouldn't tell me how and insisted I learn how to analyze myself.


Umm...I don't really have anything too helpful to add other than maybe writing your Dad a letter and getting your concerns/feeling out to him that way might be best...

But really I just wanted to comment that it sounds like you and I have had similar relocating paths.

I grew up just outside of the Bay Area and went to college in San Diego and then a year and a half later moved from there to NYC.

[Infra-Man]

Yes you're right dad, I'm sorry dad, etc as sincerly as you can til he shuts the hell up. Just remember it's HIS problems, don't take on his insecurities as yours. ;}

I've gotten that advice from quite a few people--don't take it personally, it's his problems and not yours. The apologies should help too.

Umm...I don't really have anything too helpful to add other than maybe writing your Dad a letter and getting your concerns/feeling out to him that way might be best...

But really I just wanted to comment that it sounds like you and I have had similar relocating paths.

I grew up just outside of the Bay Area and went to college in San Diego and then a year and a half later moved from there to NYC.

A letter might be a good idea, especially one written by hand, though my dad's had a history of misinterpreting what I mean to say when it's written.

Whereabout's in the Bay Area and what school in San Diego? For me it was San Jose and then college at San Diego State.

[section 8]

"dont over analyze things."

that is the only advise i'm good for at this point.

[OzBat!]

If Dad misinterprets things, or you're worried about not getting the meaning across in a letter, run it past somebody you trust first to give you a critique. "Did you really mean to say---?" might help open your eyes to some things you take for granted... most of us have some little pieces of literary shorthand we unconsciously fall back on sometimes, that doesn't really convey the full meaning of the idea behind it and it helps to have that pointed out occasionally.

[section 8]

Have you even TRIED fistfighting? No i'm kidding violence is not going to solve anything.

um hell a lot of the prior posts indicate that your dad will talk to you or listen to reason. which isn't always the case

so you have got to find a way to squash this if he won't

but seriously has anyone on this board met your dad? dads are people and peoiple are all different, what works for mending the proverbial bridge with one dad, may not work with yours. ( god knows if i went to my pops with half the above suggestions he'd think i was wearing a wire.)

this situation involves only two people You and your dadbeyond that no other opinions realy weigh in

youll work it out,just remember what's important

[Merey]

I've gotten that advice from quite a few people--don't take it personally, it's his problems and not yours. The apologies should help too.



A letter might be a good idea, especially one written by hand, though my dad's had a history of misinterpreting what I mean to say when it's written.

Whereabout's in the Bay Area and what school in San Diego? For me it was San Jose and then college at San Diego State.

Vacaville - off I-80 right in the middle between San Francisco and Sacramento.

And I also went to SDSU, graduated in 2000 and moved to NYC in 2002.

I went back to SD last summer and it looks like the trolley station is up and running. How cool is that?! That really would have been helpful during my freshmen and sophomore years when I didn't have a car.

I miss that place. I miss my Monty's market card and sleeping on the chairs under the dome of the library.

[Infra-Man]

"dont over analyze things."

that is the only advise i'm good for at this point.

Heck, that's sound advice if I ever heard any.

Have you even TRIED fistfighting? No i'm kidding violence is not going to solve anything.

um hell a lot of the prior posts indicate that your dad will talk to you or listen to reason. which isn't always the case

so you have got to find a way to squash this if he won't

but seriously has anyone on this board met your dad? dads are people and peoiple are all different, what works for mending the proverbial bridge with one dad, may not work with yours. ( god knows if i went to my pops with half the above suggestions he'd think i was wearing a wire.)

this situation involves only two people You and your dadbeyond that no other opinions realy weigh in

youll work it out,just remember what's important

No one on this board has met my dad (unless someone I know from San Diego or San Jose is posting here and I don't know it), but yeah, there is a certain sense where there is no catch-all solution. Just need to play this by ear and try to make sure not to upset him too much when I figure out what's going on.

If Dad misinterprets things, or you're worried about not getting the meaning across in a letter, run it past somebody you trust first to give you a critique. "Did you really mean to say---?" might help open your eyes to some things you take for granted... most of us have some little pieces of literary shorthand we unconsciously fall back on sometimes, that doesn't really convey the full meaning of the idea behind it and it helps to have that pointed out occasionally.

Good idea there. Sometimes I have a problem with communicating things as precisely as I mean to, particularly when emotions run high. I'll definitely run something I write to my dad by a friend before sending it out.

On the note of misinterpreting things, I remember about four years ago I told my dad to stop signing his emails as "daddy," saying something along the lines of "I'm an adult now, and I don't feel comfortable with you referring to yourself as 'daddy' in your emails." According to my mom (because my dad would never admit this), my dad thought that I meant I never wanted to call him "dad" ever again and just wanted to be on a first name basis with him. For about a week, he signed his emails with his first name and was really defensive on the phone.

Vacaville - off I-80 right in the middle between San Francisco and Sacramento.

And I also went to SDSU, graduated in 2000 and moved to NYC in 2002.

I went back to SD last summer and it looks like the trolley station is up and running. How cool is that?! That really would have been helpful during my freshmen and sophomore years when I didn't have a car.

I miss that place. I miss my Monty's market card and sleeping on the chairs under the dome of the library.

Never been to Vacaville, but I've heard of it. One of the editors at The Daily Aztec was from there.

On the note of Monty's, do you remember that Tom at the Monty's markets? Scraggly blond hair, former hippie, lanky, used to say "Cool, cool, ready to rock" or "Right on, right on" after you bought something?

[Kyuubi]

On the note of Monty's, do you remember that Tom at the Monty's markets? Scraggly blond hair, former hippie, lanky, used to say "Cool, cool, ready to rock" or "Right on, right on" after you bought something?

You mean the guy that works at Aztec market? I'm going there now and since most English classes are on that side of the campus, I see that guy all the time.

[Infra-Man]

You mean the guy that works at Aztec market? I'm going there now and since most English classes are on that side of the campus, I see that guy all the time.

Good old Tom. When there used to be poetry readings at a coffee shop out by Zura/Cuicacalli, he used to do some insanely fun stuff.

Cool, cool, ready to rock.

EDIT:
I remember one line in one of his rants. It was something like "I'm all out of toilet paper so I guess I'll just take a dump in some newspapers and toss it out the window--the pigeons will eat it anyways."

[LewisH]

as part of a Jewish family we fight and argue all the time and don't think any the less of each other for it. Noone feels they are being disrespected. We all know we tend to get over emotional on occassion, accept that about ourselves, and apologize and say things like "you know I love you in spite of the arguments".

I don't understand your dad's constantly saying you didn't learn anything in college, either. If you got your degree and are earning a living for yourself, he
doesn't have anything logical to object to. However, people who are trying to
control other people often don't have a logical mindset. I mean obey me and
always agree with me or you are being disrespectful doesn't work for me.

As far as the specific incident. Contact Wells Fargo and make sure they know the account was to have been cancelled. You have to follow up on this stuff to
make sure it isn't some kind of identity theft issue.

[Infra-Man]

Well... I found out one of the things that was upsetting my dad on that call Friday, something he didn't tell me about immediately.

Before he called me, he found out that his sister (my aunt) was diagnosed with cancer. It's the same sister he refused to talk to and whose family he tried to cut off contact with. He said in an email I got, "I talked in a way that things were OK but what a way and time to talk to me, doing it only when my help/moral support is needed."

When else are they supposed to talk to him given his attempt to sever ties with him? And why the fuck does he feel burdened to show compassion to his own sister who has cancer?

And more so, why didn't he just tell me what was bothering him in the first place?

[Corrina]

The last time my mother got all angry with me over nothing, I found out she'd just had some tests and might have cancer.

Of course, it took shouting and tears over the phone on both our parts to get that out of her. (She doesn't have cancer.)

I don't know why people just don't say why they're upset. Sometimes I think they don't know or they're in denial.

[Infra-Man]

as part of a Jewish family we fight and argue all the time and don't think any the less of each other for it. Noone feels they are being disrespected. We all know we tend to get over emotional on occassion, accept that about ourselves, and apologize and say things like "you know I love you in spite of the arguments".

I don't understand your dad's constantly saying you didn't learn anything in college, either. If you got your degree and are earning a living for yourself, he
doesn't have anything logical to object to. However, people who are trying to
control other people often don't have a logical mindset. I mean obey me and
always agree with me or you are being disrespectful doesn't work for me.

As far as the specific incident. Contact Wells Fargo and make sure they know the account was to have been cancelled. You have to follow up on this stuff to
make sure it isn't some kind of identity theft issue.

Good ideas on double checking with Wells Fargo. I will double check with them when I get a chance.

When my dad and I argue, I think he has this thing where it's impossible for him to gain some personal distance from a disagreement and the heated emotions, and he mistakes the passion of an argument for some sort of insult or sign of dislike. Your family seems to have the right idea--you argue, you disagree, you can get angry, but you're still family. It seems like my dad takes disagreement as a sign that someone no longer wants to associate with him.

My dad mentioned that he feels he's outgrowing his usefulness in the world and preceded that statement by writing that he demanded respect and understood everything I said last week. He's hurt that we can't get along, and so am I, but it seems like he's unwilling to ease up and help mend things.

Maybe I'm just angry that he feels so put upon having to be nice to his sister and her family because she has cancer. That just seems like a really awful thing to say. Sometimes he's a fucking asshole.

[Infra-Man]

The last time my mother got all angry with me over nothing, I found out she'd just had some tests and might have cancer.

Of course, it took shouting and tears over the phone on both our parts to get that out of her. (She doesn't have cancer.)

I don't know why people just don't say why they're upset. Sometimes I think they don't know or they're in denial.

It's good that your mom didn't get cancer, Corrina. And I also wonder why people (though my dad in particular) don't just say what's bothering them. It would just makes things much easier, but I guess that's just not the way things work.

And yeah, I repeating this over and over again, but I'm upset that my dad sees this tragedy that's befallen his sister as some kind of inconvenience to him. This should be a chance to make amends with her and her kids and to treat them as part of the family again; to start talking with them again about how things went wrong and how things can be fixed.

[Paul McEnery]

Maybe I'm just angry that he feels so put upon having to be nice to his sister and her family because she has cancer. That just seems like a really awful thing to say. Sometimes he's a fucking asshole.

Yes and no. It sounds like a real thing to say.

[Infra-Man]

Yes and no. It sounds like a real thing to say.

After getting passed the initial anger, I can see that point. Now he may have to put on a facade of concern even though he doesn't want to speak to her or her family.

I'm think just outraged because in general I like my aunt and her family, and my dad never explained what caused them to have a falling out.

[OzBat!]

That might be a generational thing... my father had a falling out with his family as well, and I didn't find out what was really going on until I'd left home and started a family of my own.