Future1 - Bishop/XSE, Future 2 - Cable/Askani? -- Some Post MC Thoughts

[Cypocalypse_Complex]

Just some thoughts....

Bishop sought to kill the baby because the baby was a key figure in the creation of the XSE timeline. Of course, this is a retcon and it's purely a Messiah Complex idea and no amount of backreading about Bishop's comic history would give mention to a baby messiah since the idea was only conceptualized for MC.

Cable, as much as Bishop, has a very individualistic agenda with the baby, and the comparison can have this analogy--the baby Messiah played a crucial role in the development of the Askani timeline some 2000 years ago in the future as much as the baby played a role in the development of the XSE timeline. And, same thing with Bishop's history, no amount of back reading in Cable's history would mention a baby Messiah because The Messiah Complex story itself is a recent concept, therefore a retconning agent, but it will attempt to integrate itself into the X-men mythos.

And the best way to integrate it to the mythos, is to integrate it with the more prominent established futures and not just the what-if stories. Hence, the obvious choices became the XSE timeline, and the Askani timeline.

Both futures have surviving mutant population and we can just argue from there that they are the two futures that Forge (was it him) foresaw.

Maybe the future that led to the Askani timeline is where Jamie 2 landed, judging from this.

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Some further thoughts......

The kid needs to be sent to the future so that the writers can make her grow up independently from the present timeline of the core comic books, and by the time she gets older, she'll go back to the present and will do what was stated in the Messiah Complex (was it the Six-Minute War)? After all, it's more believable that an adult mutant messiah will execute the major event rather than her in her current baby state.

This situation creates very interesting implications.

--It gives Bishop a sense of purpose because his timeline still looms in the horizon.

--Same with Cable

--It solidifies the two timeline as a possible major continuity route thus making the future scenario less abstract, unlike some of the THE END series by Marvel that didn't seem to appeal much.

--The thing that the baby (even just the mythos of it) do in the near future will serve as a template for what the future X-writers will do, giving the X--books a sense of structure, it may take some time before the writers would write the event itself, but the mythos itself of that future event would keep the readers interested.

______________

I just pondered on this because MC flashbacked on the part where Cyclops gave baby Nate to the Askani woman, and the part in the end of The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix where Cyclops was about to leave the young Nate. I find the two scenes to be too geeky to be remembered by a casual X-Fan, except those who are into the Summers family tree. Maybe it was referenced because, indeed, the baby was a key figure in Cable's timeline, even if it will not yet happen until some 2000 years later into the continuity.

[jarrod]

I'm not reading all that until you put in more Rachel. <3 <3

[Pro]

Maybe the future that led to the Askani timeline is where Jamie 2 landed, judging from this.

Doubt it, the Askani timeline was wiped out far as i remember.

Future 1 is most likely old man Tryp's future from X-factor. Given that future 1 will be explored in X-Factor, that Tryp's future made mention of M-day and mutant repowerment, that mutants were the dominant species despite M-day in Tryp's future it seems more likely than any other potential future.

The most important of those clues is the fact that in Tryp's future M-day already happened, as did mutant repowerment.

[ClanAskani]

I don't think the baby has any relation to the Askani. The flashbacks were just to visually show the struggle Scott was going through, since he had to sacrifice his own son.

Unfortunately, a lot of the continuity seems to have been changed, since the Askani future and Bishops' future diverged at much different points. The Askani future has been erased, and Bishop's future should already have been advertered. It's not like in X-Men: TAS where they are from the same future only several thousand years apart. But that seems to be the model that is being followed unfortunately.

One of the clues that the baby's role is limited to the present or near future, rather than the Askani future is that she is not known to Cyclops, who spent 12 years in the Askani Future.

Chris Yost was asked about it in X-Position 35:

Question: If the baby is so crucial to Cable’s future, why wouldn’t Cyclops know about it? He spent twelve years there – or is that motivating his decisions?

YOST: Cable’s future is much, much farther away. That baby’s role in his future is ancient history, something Cyclops wouldn’t have casually stumbled across. And we don’t know the baby’s full role yet – it might be something behind the scenes of history, but crucially important. Bottom line, most Americans can’t name more than seven or eight of our presidents. It’s possible this didn’t come up.


So, whatever the baby did, wasn't in the Askani future. It was in the distant past, perhaps in present day or 2043.

One clue is what Rachel (Mother Askani) told Scott and Jean in The Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #1:

"..for almost a century before this, the world enjoyed an almost unprecedented racial harmony. The Age of Xavier was a time when all races lived in peace. A peace Apocalypse used against an unsuspecting, trusting planet. "


The Askani future didn't turn into a dystopian future until about 100 years before Rachel arrived. Before that, it was a really nice place - thanks to the Age of Xavier.

I think the baby's role is related to that. She does something that causes a tremendous disaster for mutants (Bishop's future), however that leads to the Age of Xavier. Sort of "no pain, no gain" sort of a thing.

Or, could it be the "A peace Apocalypse used against an unsuspecting, trusting planet." that is important? Is Cable motivated to preventing a utopian future that leaves mutant vulnerable to a tyrant taking over?

I've written an article about my thoughts on who the baby is, and if she might be connected in some way to the Askani:
http://www.rachel-summers.com/2008/02/is-messiah-complex-baby-rachel-summers_18.html

[Pro]

Bottom line, most Americans can’t name more than seven or eight of our presidents.

Well that only proves most americans have had a sucky education. I'm not american and i can name at least 14 american presidents off the top of my head ..

[Daithi]

Doubt it, the Askani timeline was wiped out far as i remember.

Nope. Cyclops puts the same question to Cable and Cable says it still exists. Weinberg linked the Askani timeline being wiped out to Poccy being dead. Well he's not anymore.

Also the XSE is mentioned in the Askani books so the timeline could flow from Bishop's timeline to the Askani one.

If only Blaquesmith was around.

[Askani's Flame]

I just pondered on this because MC flashbacked on the part where Cyclops gave baby Nate to the Askani woman, and the part in the end of The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix where Cyclops was about to leave the young Nate. I find the two scenes to be too geeky to be remembered by a casual X-Fan, except those who are into the Summers family tree. Maybe it was referenced because, indeed, the baby was a key figure in Cable's timeline, even if it will not yet happen until some 2000 years later into the continuity.

I think those scenes were referenced because they were two of the most painful decisions Scott has had to make, foreshadowing another one coming up.

I'm not reading all that until you put in more Rachel. <3 <3

More indeed

[ClanAskani]

Well that only proves most americans have had a sucky education. I'm not american and i can name at least 14 american presidents off the top of my head ..

I'd think Yost would hold Scott to a higher standard. He's not the average stupid American. Scott would have researched what happened to his friends. Or, perhaps he didn't want to know?

[rwsmith]

That post gives me a headache. Less time-travel in the X-books please.

*Except for Old Man Logan, that is. That will be radical, set in an alternate future or not.* :tongue:

[Pro]

Nope. Cyclops puts the same question to Cable and Cable says it still exists. Weinberg linked the Askani timeline being wiped out to Poccy being dead. Well he's not anymore.

Wasn't Rachel's second chance for a life linked to the askani timeline being wiped out?

[jarrod]

Wasn't Rachel's second chance for a life linked to the askani timeline being wiped out?
Yeah, it retroactively unhinged her in the timestream after she left Excalibur and threw her to the end of time with Gaunt. She never went to the future, never formed the Askani, never fought Apocalypse, never rescued Nathan... but she has flashes of memory from all that.

[Daithi]

Wasn't Rachel's second chance for a life linked to the askani timeline being wiped out?

Well yes...and er..

My own theory is that just before Poccy "died" there were two Rachels. Excalibur Rachel in the timestream and Mother Askani only existing in her astral form. Before Cable delivered the "killing" blow to Poccy, Mama Askani traveled back in time, met Excalibur Rachel in the timestream, gave her some memories and then disappeared. Excalibur Rachel winds up at the end of time with some Askani memories.

[Pro]

Cable says it still exists.

He said this after MC? Because that doesn't make much sense to me. Tryp clearly comes from a timeline where the mutant race was repowered with the help of X-Factor after M-day.
Like Bishop mentioning M-day in relation to his timeline.

Unless the Askani timeline is the same timeline as Tryp or Bishop's future, only further down the line I don't see how the askani timeline survived.

I suppose it's possible the askani timeline is indeed the same as Tryp's and that Apocalypse took power after mutant repowerment.

Still I'd prefer if they left the askani timeline resting in peace because its convoluted history would be a little hard to follow for new readers. Hell it's hard to follow even though i read most of the books that revolved around it.

[kate-pryde]

Nope. Cyclops puts the same question to Cable and Cable says it still exists. Weinberg linked the Askani timeline being wiped out to Poccy being dead. Well he's not anymore.
.

That was in C&D? Fabian Nicieza told UXN that he never bothered to read Weinberg's run. :frown:

[Pro]

Excalibur Rachel winds up at the end of time with some Askani memories.

But she wouldn't have ended up with those memories if the askani timeline hadn't been wiped out, correct? I dont rightly recall that story but it seems that Rachel wouldn't have ended up with mother askani memories if it hadn't been for her new lease on life which was the result of the askani timeline being wiped out.

*blinks*

See my problem?

[Daithi]

But she wouldn't have ended up with those memories if the askani timeline hadn't been wiped out, correct? I dont rightly recall that story but it seems that Rachel wouldn't have ended up with mother askani memories if it hadn't been for her new lease on life which was the result of the askani timeline being wiped out.

*blinks*

See my problem?

Well in my theory Mother Askani stills exists for as long a Poccy is still alive. She transfers some memories to Excalibur Rachel (for some reason) then when Poccy dies, the Askani timeline dies, Mother Askani dies but Excalibur/Current Rachel still has memories of the timeline.

This solving the entire problem!

[Cerridwen]

Well in my theory Mother Askani stills exists for as long a Poccy is still alive. She transfers some memories to Excalibur Rachel (for some reason) then when Poccy dies, the Askani timeline dies, Mother Askani dies but Excalibur/Current Rachel still has memories of the timeline.

This solving the entire problem!

I think the MA memories remain because there are people who remember Mother Askani (blaquesmith, cable scott jean). Current Rachel may probably have telepathically glimpsed of their moments with MA, so its easier for her to remember them even if she hadnt live that life

*nosebleed*

[Daithi]

Well there's also the problem of the Askani world that Deadpool visits during HoM where the Mother Askani is referenced. :confused:

[Scavenger]

Well there's also the problem of the Askani world that Deadpool visits during HoM where the Mother Askani is referenced. :confused:

Deadpool read the comics.



As for Jamie 2...forget about him. Marvel clearly has.

[Cypocalypse_Complex]

^^ Harsh! But quite true.

[Flâneur]

But she wouldn't have ended up with those memories if the askani timeline hadn't been wiped out, correct? I dont rightly recall that story but it seems that Rachel wouldn't have ended up with mother askani memories if it hadn't been for her new lease on life which was the result of the askani timeline being wiped out.

*blinks*

See my problem?

It's easy enough to explain - Rachel immersed herself in time and picked up traces of her different futures which remain subconscious because no human mind can contain all of that. It's pretty much what happened to Brian, after all.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Deadpool read the comics.



As for Jamie 2...forget about him. Marvel clearly has.

Forgotten him? Is that why PAD said he would get to it in his X-Factor run?:tongue: