Giant Size Astonishing X-men (spoilers)

[Flâneur]

Eh, this is close enough to death to count. Much like Jean she's become bodiless and unreachable. It's just not death in the typical form, it's more like ascension or something like that which sounds exactly what Joss would have wanted for his pet.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Eh, this is close enough to death to count. Much like Jean she's become bodiless and unreachable. It's just not death in the typical form, it's more like ascension or something like that which sounds exactly what Joss would have wanted for his pet.

I love you Flanny.

[Flâneur]

I love you Flanny.

As you should.


... sexy time now?

[Leirus]

Eh, this is close enough to death to count. Much like Jean she's become bodiless and unreachable. It's just not death in the typical form, it's more like ascension or something like that which sounds exactly what Joss would have wanted for his pet.

I do not know... In real life that would be a death for sure...

But in comics... It would have been more touching, more a round moment, if we had had a last words, maybe to colossus trhough Emma whike she was dying... so the gone bullet would have been some of a Viking burial as someone said

As it is? It says "LIMBO" for me... a complicated one, but limbo nonetheless

And Jean is not a good example. as phoenix, they need to do something really elaborated to keep her out, so they went for the ascension thing.

But, for example, who is more "dead" or "alive" Cecilia Reyes or Kitty Pryde?

Answer in my opinion in the comic world. They are both in Limbo. They both would need some sort of explanation to come back, but not one as complicated as a death on panel would have required.

Example: Sinister held Cecilia in a restraining tube to study her later. She only regained conscience after his death in MC

Magick destroyed the magical protection of the bullet, already weakened by Doc Strange and held Kitty in Limbo unable to decide between kill her or ask her help.


Easier than a resurrection, I think, but that is just my opinion

[DeniseXfrost]

the stuff between her & Emma was nicely scripted, but it felt totally out of plae....i mean there's been no development since Kitty told Emma that she didn't trust her & would be keeping an eye on her....yet now apparently they're close enough to cry to one another & joke about the fact that Kitty won't be around to watch her. when did this character development happen? as far as i can recall, it didn't.
There's no need for this development to know they fully forgive each other in their own strange ways, plus it's a moment of life and death- but actually there was one scene where Kitty reaching out to Emma after the supposed Cyke death.
i was pleasently suprised that emma was so nice
My girl's softened by love.

[timbox]

There's no need for this development to know they fully forgive each other in their own strange ways, plus it's a moment of life and death- but actually there was one scene where Kitty reaching out to Emma after the supposed Cyke death.

My girl's softened by love.

I agree with you, shocking! :tongue:

I loved the scene with Kitty and Emma. I loved the scene in your avatar as well, very touching.

[DeniseXfrost]

I loved the scene in your avatar as well, very touching.
She was indeed defrosted. Ellis totally needs to bitch her up.

[ExodusCloak]

I liked it, best scenes were Emma/Kitty, Brand/Beast and Spiderman/Anyone.

[Ogrebear]

Which City was it that Kitty phased the Bullet through?

Anyone recognise it?

[ExodusCloak]

Which City was it that Kitty phased the Bullet through?

Anyone recognise it?

The bullet came out of Scotland I think...Highlands right? So I'd assume the bullet had to enter a city that is somewhere near the coast...in the southern hemisphere. Somewhere in South Africa maybe...Durban or Cape Town. Or it could have entered a city in Australia.

Then again it could just be New York...because it's home to the heroes and what not.

[flapjaxx]

Anyone else feeling Cassie Nova was responsible for the "drooling" scene?

Uh, yeah. And I'm a bit pissed that no one seemed to even care about WHY the Earth heroes were drooling. The inner fantasies bit screams Cassandra Nova... but nothing was even said. Even if they would have done ONE panel that said something like

Emma: "What's causing them to... Is it Cass--"
Scott: "We don't have time for that now. We have to work with what we've got."

Even if they would have said something as little as that--FINE, GREAT. But to not even question it within a giant-sized issue is just sloppy. Even if Ellis is going to pick up on it in #25 (I sure hope he does).

But overall it was a very good issue.

[ExodusCloak]

Uh, yeah. And I'm a bit pissed that no one seemed to even care about WHY the Earth heroes were drooling. The inner fantasies bit screams Cassandra Nova... but nothing was even said. Even if they would have done ONE panel that said something like

I thought the drooling was self explanatory. All the heroes got magical backlash after Strange tried to stop the bullet. The drooling was down to the magical defences of the bullet. I

[DeniseXfrost]

Dr Strange's Magic backfires?

[ExodusCloak]

Dr Strange's Magic backfires?

And everyone in the S.W.O.R.D. ship is hit.

[Home made ectoplasm]

The bullet came out of Scotland I think...Highlands right? So I'd assume the bullet had to enter a city that is somewhere near the coast...in the southern hemisphere. Somewhere in South Africa maybe...Durban or Cape Town. Or it could have entered a city in Australia.

Then again it could just be New York...because it's home to the heroes and what not.

Just off to the shop now - Scotland got hit? Yikes.

[ExodusCloak]

Just off to the shop now - Scotland got hit? Yikes.

Not hit...I'm assuming the Bullet exited through Scotland due to the Highlands...it could also be the ROI or somewhere in that area...maybe Great Britain.

[Flâneur]

I do not know... In real life that would be a death for sure...

But in comics... It would have been more touching, more a round moment, if we had had a last words, maybe to colossus trhough Emma whike she was dying... so the gone bullet would have been some of a Viking burial as someone said

As it is? It says "LIMBO" for me... a complicated one, but limbo nonetheless

And Jean is not a good example. as phoenix, they need to do something really elaborated to keep her out, so they went for the ascension thing.

But, for example, who is more "dead" or "alive" Cecilia Reyes or Kitty Pryde?

Answer in my opinion in the comic world. They are both in Limbo. They both would need some sort of explanation to come back, but not one as complicated as a death on panel would have required.

Example: Sinister held Cecilia in a restraining tube to study her later. She only regained conscience after his death in MC

Magick destroyed the magical protection of the bullet, already weakened by Doc Strange and held Kitty in Limbo unable to decide between kill her or ask her help.


Easier than a resurrection, I think, but that is just my opinion
I compare it to Jean because we know exactly what happened and know her status with the main difference being that Jean has more precedent for a return. Reyes is entirely different to either of these - the writers have never shown us what happened to her at the Weapon X camp so that's a limbo in an entirely different sense.

I also think that Joss did as good a job as any writer could of ensuring she couldn't come back - not only is he a major writer which Marvel would get out the kneepads for but he also made sure that any story which brought her back would be hokey and shit. It'd have to be a clone, a skrull or an alternate U Kitty switch.
I thought the drooling was self explanatory. All the heroes got magical backlash after Strange tried to stop the bullet. The drooling was down to the magical defences of the bullet. It was the contingency plan that Krunn set up to make sure the Bullet reached it's destination which IRRC they mention on the page following the drooling incident.
Really? That totally went straight past me.

[Mr.EZ]

So we have a count of 4 X-Men, not counting Vulcan, somewhere in outer space, so hopefully they'll be able to meet up, and Rachel can free Kitty.

Assuming Kitty doesn't starve to death before then.

The only problem I had with the issue was that I didn't like Sue Richards calling Kitty, "the Pryde girl." I think that if I'd been in a huge fight that nearly destroyed my husband and family, over the life of a girl that had befriended my son, I'd call her by her first name.

[timbox]

My main problem with the issue was the opening scene where Spider-Man was swinging around New York when he webshooters are obviously out of fluid! Brand New Day ruined Astonishing X-Men!!! :frown:

[jarrod]

Not hit...I'm assuming the Bullet exited through Scotland due to the Highlands...it could also be the ROI or somewhere in that area...maybe Great Britain.
OMG... Kitty was aiming for Wisdom! Whatta bitter damn bee-otch!








I miss Lockheed. Did he at least make it back to Earth? :(

[melodyrider]

Which City was it that Kitty phased the Bullet through?

Anyone recognise it?

I can't say for sure, but one of the buildings on the righthand side looks an awful lot like the Sears Tower.

[Jeremi]

So Kitty is trapped inside a bullet speeding trough space…sounds rather anticlimactic.

[darknessatnoon]

So we have a count of 4 X-Men, not counting Vulcan, somewhere in outer space, so hopefully they'll be able to meet up, and Rachel can free Kitty.

Assuming Kitty doesn't starve to death before then.

The only problem I had with the issue was that I didn't like Sue Richards calling Kitty, "the Pryde girl." I think that if I'd been in a huge fight that nearly destroyed my husband and family, over the life of a girl that had befriended my son, I'd call her by her first name.

She was intended to be Franklin's babysitter. That's how you refer to the babysitter.

[Grazzt]

Something has occured to me. All of the superheroes in the "drool" scene were fantasizing about saving the world. So that means that there must be some way for Anole, Dust, and Pixie to stop the magic bullet. Any ideas?

The person who comes up with the best one gets an internet cookie.

[Old No.7]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7708/beastbrandeh3.jpg

[darknessatnoon]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7708/beastbrandeh3.jpg

Brand doesn't need to pay Beast to hate her. I'll do it for free.

[frog]

Thanks!

How does a blue furry father lead to hot glowy hands? Never mind, probably don't want to know.

[timbox]

Brand doesn't need to pay Beast to hate her. I'll do it for free.

But will you break her like a pony?

[darknessatnoon]

But will you break her like a pony?

They just had to emphasize her beastiality fetish.

[frog]

You gotta love to hate Brand. She's even more of a bitchgoddess than Emma.

[darknessatnoon]

You gotta love to hate Brand. She's even more of a bitchgoddess than Emma.

The hatred comes naturally for me. I worked with a woman like her once who stomped around the office to berate everyone with her sharp tongue. She, too, also wore so much make-up everyday that it looked like she had war-paint on.

[Old No.7]

Before Beast the only thing Agent Brand got off on was the bear-skinned rug in her office. Sometimes she would get kinky and get sandwiched between a black bear and a polar bear skinned rug.

[frog]

The hatred comes naturally for me. I worked with a woman like her once who stomped around the office to berate everyone with her sharp tongue. She, too, also wore so much make-up everyday that it looked like she had war-paint on.

Well, I'm quite sure I'd hate Brand, Emma and Gyrich if I had to be around them in real life. But they're great fun as long as they stay on the comic pages.

[frog]

Before Beast the only thing Agent Brand got off on was the bear-skinned rug in her office. Sometimes she would get kinky and get sandwiched between a black bear and a polar bear skinned rug.

As long as Beast is still inside his skin it's okay.


I'm sure that if her peers say anything she's not caving like Trash Trilby. Brand will tell them where to stick their bestiality fantasies.

[darknessatnoon]

Well, I'm quite sure I'd hate Brand, Emma and Gyrich if I had to be around them in real life. But they're great fun as long as they stay on the comic pages.

Gyrich v. Beast/Brand would be entertaining.

[frog]

Gyrich v. Beast/Brand would be entertaining.

Yes!

Gyrich can be reassigned to keep an eye on SWORD. Triple snark! Fantastic!

[timbox]

I wonder if she can heat up other parts of her body.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Because it's an all ages board:

In cat form doesn't beast have a catlike barbed penis that would prevent him from having sexual relations with humanoids?

[Old No.7]

Because it's an all ages board:

In cat form doesn't beast have a catlike barbed penis that would prevent him from having sexual relations with humanoids?

You jerked off a cat in your young days didn't you?

[Home made ectoplasm]

You jerked off a cat in your young days didn't you?

Please.

Jerked off on a cat, now ok, but who hasn't done that?

[frog]

Please.

Jerked off on a cat, now ok, but who hasn't done that?

Please do not post that picture in X-Cress!

[Home made ectoplasm]

OK frog, just for you I've edited the post :tongue:

[AcesX1X]

Ugh.

This is exactly why I miss sexy monkey-toes Beast. With or without the blue fur, at least you had a pretty definite idea of what anatomy he was walking around with.

Nasty nasty cat-Beast..

[frog]

*resists temptation to make monkey see, monkey do comment*

Since cats don't have missing digits I think we can hope Beast isn't built exactly the same in other ways. Surely Brand knows what she's getting into, anyway.

[AcesX1X]

....well, if not she's going to have one hell of a ride.

[Mr.EZ]

She was intended to be Franklin's babysitter. That's how you refer to the babysitter.

Gee, I wish my babysitters had been immaterial, trapped in a tube and near death when I was a kid. I so would've beaten Super Mario Bros that one time.

I was 7 years old and I'd finally made it to level 8-8, Bowser was just a few fireballs away, and this bitch, this god awful, righteously heinous bitch, came in the room, turned off the Nintendo and told me to go to bed.

Teenage girls are my Kryptonite.

[Anna]

Because it's an all ages board:

In cat form doesn't beast have a catlike barbed penis that would prevent him from having sexual relations with humanoids?


Maybe since Brand is half alien She's built a little bit more accomidating.

[vitruvian]

Nah, she'll get saved by the new Guardians of the Galaxy when they investigate the 'bullet' improbably getting close to another star system, and her next interspecies relationship (after Lockheed, natch) can be a three-way with Rocket Raccoon and Groot.

[tornshattered]

It think Kitty will be back when Magik returns, as she was mentioned in #24 with the missile. So, that would be Magik protection. but not anti-Magik....
Loved the issue and throughout the ending half of the issue I hear music in my head: "If I would ever leave you it wouldn't be in summer..." and at the end when Piotr was like saying goodbye I heard the best part of that song "Oh no not in spring-time, summer, winter or fall. Noo never could I leave youuuuu aaaaat aaaall..." I can't remember where I heard that song... :D
Anyway I give the issue a 9.7

[vitruvian]

The backfiring from Strange's magic caused them all to think they saved the world.

Yeah - I'm guessing the Breakworlders missed Mongul's big fire sale on Black Mercies....

[Hakael]

Nah, she'll get saved by the new Guardians of the Galaxy when they investigate the 'bullet' improbably getting close to another star system, and her next interspecies relationship (after Lockheed, natch) can be a three-way with Rocket Raccoon and Groot.

Rocket Raccoon thinks all humans smell bad, and Groot... well... he's Groot.
But anything involving Star Lord and crew I'm pretty much up to reading about.

[Toboe]

So I finally got to read it. It had some good moments, but the Breakworld as a concept really doesn't stand together, so this whole arc relying so much on it is what makes it fail. And the big sendoff for Kitty Pryde being a magical giant bullet is so ridiculous I've got no word for it, just a mute astonishment. What a waste of development.

However, I did love the last page with Peter mirroring the page when Kitty first found him, that was a nice moment for him. I will sure miss Whedon's characterization of this team, with the constant bittering between Kitty and Emma, and how he's moved forward with Scott and Emma's odd relationship. Can't wait to see more of Beast and Agent Brand together.

And this being supposed to be a self-contained series, I'm amazed at how many plots Whedon left open. Lockheed, Danger, and especially Cassandra Nova... those are some pretty important plots he used during his run and I can't believe he left them up in the air.

[mikekerr3]

Yes!

Gyrich can be reassigned to keep an eye on SWORD. Triple snark! Fantastic!

Brand would just misplace him someplace like Sakar or venus without a suit. Tha makes it a great idea:biggrin:

[Cruelly_Innocent]

you know..like many of you I hated the lateness of this book..it was NEVER on time and it made me loose interest in the final arc...but I must say..that the final issue was pretty much perfect ...for me

I loved the Kitty/Emma interactions..like always..Wheddon knows how the woman(s) he is currently writing act the best of themselves

I really hated kitty but the last issue made me like her..now I hope that she makes it out of limbo someday

The best thing I got from Astonishing X-men are by far the girls Wheddon created: Brand, Ichiki and Aldine

and so...Thank You wheddon for a wonderfull final issue (again..for me) ..now I can only hope that storm doesn't take Kitty's Place...I'm ...apathic towards her to begin with...so maybe Ellis can make me hate her and later like her....Please...anything..she does nothing for me :frown:


To Kitty and Emma's last issue :P : best panels of the final issue (http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5711/dontknowqp3.jpg)

[Deep_Sleeper]

I thought it was an amazing issue. Everything about this issue was perfect. That moment when Spidey had the "revelation" had me laughing out loud. No lies. I was laughing out loud when I saw the expression on his face.

Beautifully written and illustrated. It was worthy of the wait.

[dotdotdot]

Still, let us sum up Kitty's currently situation. She's fused to an unstoppable and soon-to-be untraceable (space is BIG) mass, can't do anything about it and only something or someone close to GOD or a MIRACLE can help.

.

this is the way you can describe pretty much every cliffhanger in comics.

[darknessatnoon]

this is the way you can describe pretty much every cliffhanger in comics.

A cliffhanger is usually followed up on in the next installment. Anyway, we all know that while the X-Men said they were going to try and save her, they got sidelined by the move to SF.

[jarrod]

A cliffhanger is usually followed up on in the next installment.
Then again, this is Whedon.

[tunasammiches]

But where's Kitty?

[pariah-1972]

Great Issue ! tho i was confused about what was going on with Piotr and the damn aliens this was a great book.
Reed has been looking really really old lately i wonder if this is on purpose?

Brand and Beast would make a most excellent "bickering" couple and i hope to god we see more of them cause we need more of those types of relationships in the X-men.
Whedon really captured Spideys "current" voice and i love it since it's part Ultimate Spider "babbling idiot" without going too over the top with it like Bendis tends to do.

[samson]

What a steaming pile of crap. Whedon and Casaday obviously phoned these pages in. I can hardly believe a series that started so great both art- and writing-wise devolved into such a pathetic joke. They should be embarrassed.

[DeadXMan]

I like Pete's fight.

And Brand's Secert left Beast speechless

[dotdotdot]

What a steaming pile of crap. Whedon and Casaday obviously phoned these pages in. I can hardly believe a series that started so great both art- and writing-wise devolved into such a pathetic joke. They should be embarrassed.

i'm proud to say that this isn't the consensus. issue was amazing.

[Anna]

But where's Kitty?

Where are Lockheed and Danger?

[Deep_Sleeper]

What a steaming pile of crap. Whedon and Casaday obviously phoned these pages in. I can hardly believe a series that started so great both art- and writing-wise devolved into such a pathetic joke. They should be embarrassed.

Opinions can be informative, as well as obtuse.

In this case, it's the latter.

Yeah, you can hate something. But not giving due to work, especially professional work, is just pathetic. A flip through the book will give you a visual clue that this comic was anything BUT phoned in.

I find your opinion to be a pile of crap. You phoned it in. Get lost.

[deadpool2008]

I really didn't care about the plot or the main characters in this issue. For me, it was all about the small scenes between Spider-Man and Storm. They stole the show. Whedon needs to write a Spider-Man/Storm team-up mini IMMEDIATELY.

Wonderful interaction with these two...that mini series would kick some major butt

[pariah-1972]

So who is gonna be on Warren Ellis's team again? all i remember is Storm i have a feeling he's going to need Emma for his typical acerbic British( or wannabe) character.

[Old No.7]

So who is gonna be on Warren Ellis's team again? all i remember is Storm i have a feeling he's going to need Emma for his typical acerbic British( or wannabe) character.

Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Hisako, Beast and Emma.

[DeniseXfrost]

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7708/beastbrandeh3.jpg
Brand looks strangely old whereas Beast looks strangely cute.

[Pyro]

did you just refer to that art as merely consistentYeah. Consistent is the most descriptive word I could think of at the time. It was consistent in that it reflects the style and quality that I've come to expect from him.

I'm often really mixed about Cassaday's work. On one hand, it's late at as all get out, and I'm really not a fan of the way he draws people. On the other hand, he's technically very good and he drew some great gestures, expressions, and body movement (particularly with Spider-Man). His composition is generally good--it's very cinematic, which appeals to different tastes--but he likes to throw in the odd tilted-angle panel, which I don't think is always effective. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about the photographed backgrounds.

In any case, these are very specific criticisms, which I really only mention when I'm criticizing skilled work, so it's a bit of a compliment. And I think "consistent" is a compliment as well.

Honestly, what that bugs me the most about his artwork are the dozens of dumpy, round faces on every page. I don't think I'm the only one bothered by this either. Someone mentioned earlier that Pixie looked like Charlie Brown's sister.

[jeannie]

We have four X-women in space and one X-girl.

Have to remove any competition for Emma being the top X-woman.
My advice to Storm - don't get too uppity in Astonishing unless you want to go swimming with the Acanti.

[Beast]

Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Hisako, Beast and Emma.
I like the smaller team.

Allows for the awesome characters like Beast, Cyclops, and Storm to steal the show. :biggrin:

[DeniseXfrost]

Have to remove any competition for Emma being the top X-woman.
My advice to Storm - don't get too uppity in Astonishing unless you want to go swimming with the Acanti.
That's what I've been saying :evilsmile:

[Beast]

Have to remove any competition for Emma being the top X-woman.
My advice to Storm - don't get too uppity in Astonishing unless you want to go swimming with the Acanti.
Storm's a Queen. That trumps Emma's Bitch status any day of the week. :wink:

[DeniseXfrost]

Storm's a Queen. That trumps Emma's Bitch status any day of the week. :wink:
Emma's also a queen. Emma is more passive agressive than Storm. Storm is more like "YOU DARE?!?!!?" I actually think a passive agressive person is more dangerous.

[pariah-1972]

Why does Brand have circles under her eyes anyways? thats been bugging me..

[DeniseXfrost]

Why does Brand have circles under her eyes anyways? thats been bugging me..
Yeah that's why I said she looked strangely old.

[Old No.7]

Why does Brand have circles under her eyes anyways? thats been bugging me..

She already started breaking him.

[pariah-1972]

Yeah that's why I said she looked strangely old.Maybe they are really really worn out from that whole outer space thing?

[jeannie]

Why is Brand's hair color exactly the same as Polaris?
Note to Marvel: Pea soup is not the only shade of green.

[DeniseXfrost]

Maybe they are really really worn out from that whole outer space thing?
LOL define "whole outer space thing"

[Old No.7]

Why is Brand's hair color exactly the same as Polaris?
Note to Marvel: Pea soup is not the only shade of green.

Because unlike Polaris, Brand is interesting and since she's interesting, she gets top pick on hair color.

[lockerogue]

Yeah that's why I said she looked strangely old.

Maybe they are really really worn out from that whole outer space thing?

That's what happens when you do crack. You start to look old and lose weight like crazy.

[pariah-1972]

LOL define "whole outer space thing"

Being on an alien planet for over a year?

[DeniseXfrost]

It's not sth perverted she did with Beast?

[greenshoes713]

I wonder if she can heat up other parts of her body.

ROFL thats so awesome

[samson]

Opinions can be informative, as well as obtuse.

In this case, it's the latter.

Yeah, you can hate something. But not giving due to work, especially professional work, is just pathetic. A flip through the book will give you a visual clue that this comic was anything BUT phoned in.

I find your opinion to be a pile of crap. You phoned it in. Get lost.
Sorry to step on your fanboy toes (and God forbid, to have an opinion of my own). I'm a huge Whedon fan, and I think Casaday did good work earlier in this run. That said, FOR ME, this issue was a sad joke. The drooling stuff was nothing short of stupid, the "pithy banter" was trying so hard and coming off so lame it was embarrassing, the art somehow managed to be incredibly inconsistent and consistently sub-par (though I did love that pic of Sentry as a teenage girl), and the story itself wrapped up in a way that, FOR ME, basically invalidated the worth of the entire run.

I'm glad you liked it though.

[We R. Venom]

I cant believe I forgot about this issue. *sigh* freakin delays and such made me forget about it. Well I will get it later. Beast and Brand is all I wanted anyway.:biggrin:

[Hakael]

ROFL thats so awesome

possibilities = endless

I <3 Agent Brand...

[LungerTony]

My LCS was sold out of this comic 2:30 hours after they opened. It was irritating and ridiculous.

I really want to read this awesome comic. Even after the spoilers.

[mikekerr3]

Why does Brand have circles under her eyes anyways? thats been bugging me..

After the last few days she might be a bit tired.

[Hakael]

My LCS was sold out of this comic 2:30 hours after they opened. It was irritating and ridiculous.

I really want to read this awesome comic. Even after the spoilers.

Wow, they really didn't order enough then...

[pariah-1972]

After the last few days she might be a bit tired.Hey shes not the one who had to save an entire planet tho !

(of course kitty looks a lot worse)

[The Black Guardian]

This issue is so riddled with plot holes, deus ex machina, and dangling plots that honestly, I can't see how anyone didn't see this for the donkey balls it is. This was the single worst $5 comic I ever bought.

The only silver lining is that Kitty didn't actually die die.

[pariah-1972]

This issue is so riddled with plot holes, deus ex machina, and dangling plots that honestly, I can't see how anyone didn't see this for the donkey balls it is. This was the single worst $5 comic I ever bought.

The only silver lining is that Kitty didn't actually die die.Maybe because it's been half a year since the last issue and we had completely forgotten about what this comic was even about before then?


This is why delays suck people.

[The Black Guardian]

Maybe because it's been half a year since the last issue and we had completely forgotten about what this comic was even about before then?

This is why delays suck people.
Well, I agree with you about the delays, but this wasn't the problem with the story.

All of these heroes are gathered to just stand around and drool on themselves (literally), and without an explanation.
Nothing about Danger, despite the buildup. Her only contribution turns out to be a red herring.
Nothing about Cassie Nova, despite the buildup.
The subplot about Scott's powers: all for naught.
Although I like Brand and her connection with Beast, the whole thing was extremely forced and hopelessly thin.
Armor is proven to be nothing more than a cheap substitute for Jubilee and/or Kitty.
Lockheed being a SWORD mole. Dropped.
The Cure plotline. Dropped.
The whole "magic bullet" that defies even Marvel's comic book science and the inner logic of the story, itself.

If anything, the fact that Whedon and Cassaday had 4 freaking years to complete a 2-year story, and they couldn't even complete it, only calls more attention to the problem. This issue was rushed and incomplete, despite the fact these guys were given more than ample time to complete twice as much work.

The guy who wrote, a couple pages back, about this being phone in was spot on in his assessment.

[RoguishGurl]

My LCS was sold out of this comic 2:30 hours after they opened. It was irritating and ridiculous.

I really want to read this awesome comic. Even after the spoilers.
Mine ran out too, so I went to the other one on the other side of town and got the last copy. The story was...okay to me. But I don't feel that it was enough to waste gas over.

[Flâneur]

Well, I agree with you about the delays, but this wasn't the problem with the story.

All of these heroes are gathered to just stand around and drool on themselves (literally), and without an explanation.
Nothing about Danger, despite the buildup. Her only contribution turns out to be a red herring.
Nothing about Cassie Nova, despite the buildup.
The subplot about Scott's powers: all for naught.
Although I like Brand and her connection with Beast, the whole thing was extremely forced and hopelessly thin.
Armor is proven to be nothing more than a cheap substitute for Jubilee and/or Kitty.
Lockheed being a SWORD mole. Dropped.
The Cure plotline. Dropped.
The whole "magic bullet" that defies even Marvel's comic book science and the inner logic of the story, itself.


I don't think Whedon can be criticised for the Cure - House of M pretty much wrecked that plotline. Also, I don't think we really know enough about Hisako to say she is anything apart from a Wolvie side kick, her personality is almost a blank slate otherwise.

Otherwise, I agree with you. There are issues with Aghanne's prophecy apparently being a sham, as well. On the one hand, Whedon takes two opportunities to show us that every Breakworlder knows what the Destroyer looks like and who he is but also tells us that Ord does not know, so that he can accidentally resurrect him and fulfill Aghanne's supposedly fabricated prophecy.

There are also other problems with the Cassie story - the Ernst and Stuff issue for instance.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

"Assuming she's even strictly alive." - Cyclops, Giant Size Astonishing X-Men #1

I can't believe NOBODY mentioned this quote during the 'dead-ish or not' debate. Now that's just petty.

I'll have to agree too with Black Guardian's list except for the Cure (M-day) and Nova items. I don't have a problem with Whedon not going for the predictable twist. Oh well.

I'd also add to the list the awfully scripted Breakworld/Core Room showdown. Seems to be major continuity issues and don't get me started on the big Colossus fight, lol. Looked like Aghanne was trying to feel up his forearms the whole time or something.

[storm_willing_slave]

I really didn't care about the plot or the main characters in this issue. For me, it was all about the small scenes between Spider-Man and Storm. They stole the show. Whedon needs to write a Spider-Man/Storm team-up mini IMMEDIATELY.
Well I loved everything about the issue. And I agree about that teamup.:biggrin:

[dotdotdot]

"Assuming she's even strictly alive." - Cyclops, Giant Size Astonishing X-Men #1

I can't believe NOBODY mentioned this quote during the 'dead-ish or not' debate. Now that's just petty.

I'll have to agree too with Black Guardian's list except for the Cure (M-day) and Nova items. I don't have a problem with Whedon not going for the predictable twist. Oh well.

I'd also add to the list the awfully scripted Breakworld/Core Room showdown. Seems to be major continuity issues and don't get me started on the big Colossus fight, lol. Looked like Aghanne was trying to feel up his forearms the whole time or something.

there's no debate. she isn't dead. you thought she would be. end of story.
the fact that you keep having to clarify it means that it's not death. now, who knows if anyone will use the character again soon, and it's an awesome send-off, but there was never an argument about the fact that she'd be "lost" or "gone", but that she'd die. she didn't.
you just really want to be right though, and i understand that.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

She technically doesn't have organs because she's MELTED to some alien metallic substance. I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in any medical discipline, but I'm pretty sure it counts as clinically dead.

Not forever dead, but she sure as hell ain't 'fine' or merely 'misplaced'.

[dotdotdot]

Well, I agree with you about the delays, but this wasn't the problem with the story.

All of these heroes are gathered to just stand around and drool on themselves (literally), and without an explanation.
Nothing about Danger, despite the buildup. Her only contribution turns out to be a red herring.
Nothing about Cassie Nova, despite the buildup.
The subplot about Scott's powers: all for naught.
Although I like Brand and her connection with Beast, the whole thing was extremely forced and hopelessly thin.
Armor is proven to be nothing more than a cheap substitute for Jubilee and/or Kitty.
Lockheed being a SWORD mole. Dropped.
The Cure plotline. Dropped.
The whole "magic bullet" that defies even Marvel's comic book science and the inner logic of the story, itself.



-the heroes had an explanation for gathering, but yeah it was weird on the first read that i wasn't sure why they all had a fantasy about saving the day........i don't know if that was emma or some breakworld defense or what.
-danger was somewhat rehabilitated, i don't know what else you could have wanted from it.
-cassandra nova was something that he didn't follow up on. someone else will have to. we're used to that.
-scott's powers subplot was definitely not for naught. unless you forgot all the great moments that plot brought over the past few issues.
-beast and brand.....forced, i guess you could argue.
-armor proved to be the latest incarnation of the wolverine and younger female x-man relationship that is a staple.
-lockheed was a mole for sword. that wasn't dropped. it was revealed, it made sense. i guess you guys wanted to see an issue about when he was recruited or some shit, and that's cool, but it was in no way necessary and doesn't constitute some sort of dropped plot.
-the cure plotline didn't seem to drop, it ended. i never had any sense that it was supposed to continue after the arc.
-explain how the bullet defied "comic book science" any more than anything else ever has, and also your remark about the inner logic of the story

basically, don't make a pile-up of negative remarks that doesn't really hold together at all. plenty of ways to genuinely criticize the issue, arc, and series without resorting to this weird complaining.

[dotdotdot]

She technically doesn't have organs because she's MELTED to some alien metallic substance. I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in any medical discipline, but I'm pretty sure it counts as clinically dead.

Not forever dead, but she sure as hell ain't 'fine' or merely 'misplaced'.

no one is arguing that she is fine, or ok, or anything like that. i am saying you should stop bothering to clarify between a death and this, which was something different. and you seem to obviously be doing it for the sake of being right, as your first post in the thread was gloating about "calling it". basically you know that someone will follow up on this plot in some fashion, and there isn't going to be a funeral. that's pretty decisive.

[Flâneur]

basically, don't make a pile-up of negative remarks that doesn't really hold together at all. plenty of ways to genuinely criticize the issue, arc, and series without resorting to this weird complaining.

I don't agree with you, at all. Especially since you haven't accepted any criticism of the issue, you've just been contemptuous without addressing anything anyone has said.

If the heroes scene were to be removed from the book the story wouldn't have changed whatsoever. No writer should write something that doesn't contribute to the story and those scenes didn't, the Spiderman/Storm interaction was awesome but entirely pointless. It's a waste of space that could've been used on the danglers and probably extended the delays. It also speaks volumes that you didn't get where the drooling came from.
Danger was never rehabilitated. Emma made a deal with her to effectively purchase her help for the moment. We never saw that come to fruition - Emma promising Xavier to Danger is now an empty moment which isn't acceptable. Every story needs a resolution. Same goes with Cassandra, which had its own plotholes from the beginning. "We're used to that" is not acceptable either, we're all used to delays but that doesn't justify them.
The Lockheed plot isn't resolved because we never see the X-men's reaction to his betrayal. In fact, we don't even know the extent of his betrayal which was a secret Whedon dangled in front of our noses for a good while. We never even see if Lockheed stays behind on Breakworld. It's not resolved and no one wants "some shit" to resolve it, we just want Whedon to have used that extra 20 pages to have dealt with his plot danglers rather than throw in some random heroes.

[Old No.7]

I don't agree with you, at all. Especially since you haven't accepted any criticism of the issue, you've just been contemptuous without addressing anything anyone has said.

If the heroes scene were to be removed from the book the story wouldn't have changed whatsoever. No writer should write something that doesn't contribute to the story and those scenes didn't, the Spiderman/Storm interaction was awesome but entirely pointless. It's a waste of space that could've been used on the danglers and probably extended the delays. It also speaks volumes that you didn't get where the drooling came from.
Danger was never rehabilitated. Emma made a deal with her to effectively purchase her help for the moment. We never saw that come to fruition - Emma promising Xavier to Danger is now an empty moment which isn't acceptable. Every story needs a resolution. Same goes with Cassandra, which had its own plotholes from the beginning. "We're used to that" is not acceptable either, we're all used to delays but that doesn't justify them.
The Lockheed plot isn't resolved because we never see the X-men's reaction to his betrayal. In fact, we don't even know the extent of his betrayal which was a secret Whedon dangled in front of our noses for a good while. We never even see if Lockheed stays behind on Breakworld. It's not resolved and no one wants "some shit" to resolve it, we just want Whedon to have used that extra 20 pages to have dealt with his plot danglers rather than throw in some random heroes.


These are my three complaints aswell. It was an unsatisfactory ending to his run.

[darknessatnoon]

When is Emma going to help Danger going to execute Xavier so that Legacy can go back to being a good comic?

[Cruelly_Innocent]

Hey! I liked Legacy..............for the issue that had Karima in them.


Xavier cannot hold a book by his own..he needs rogue PRONTO :cool:



And the only thing that bothered me about the issue was the drooling thing..granted..I wans't reading like a pro cuz I was looking for the pages of Kitty and Emma but..can someone explain it to me :redface: ??

[pariah-1972]

I hope to god they never bring back Cassandra Nova:mad:

[pariah-1972]

I hope to god they never bring back Cassandra Nova:mad:

[pariah-1972]

I hope to god they never bring back Cassandra Nova:mad:

[Cruelly_Innocent]

I hope to god they never bring back Cassandra Nova:mad:

How dare you! she is one of the only things that made Xavier insteresting to me :cool:

But I would like to see her reformed in some way..the mumundrai over at X-men was kinda nice:wink:

[Peter F.]

Hey! I liked Legacy..............for the issue that had Karima in them.


Xavier cannot hold a book by his own..he needs rogue PRONTO :cool:



And the only thing that bothered me about the issue was the drooling thing..granted..I wans't reading like a pro cuz I was looking for the pages of Kitty and Emma but..can someone explain it to me :redface: ??

My best guess is that the bullet had some defense against mystical energy so when Strange tried to pierce it with his magic it backfired on him and every single person around him, which just so happened to be all of the heroes on Earth that were going to try to stop the bullet.

So all of the heroes were dreaming about stopping the bullet themselves and saving the Earth when they were really all just drooling messes. Spider-man woke up because he realized just how ridiculous his fantasy really was.

[Cruelly_Innocent]

My best guess is that the bullet had some defense against mystical energy so when Strange tried to pierce it with his magic it backfired on him and every single person around him, which just so happened to be all of the heroes on Earth that were going to try to stop the bullet.

So all of the heroes were dreaming about stopping the bullet themselves and saving the Earth when they were really all just drooling messes. Spider-man woke up because he realized just how ridiculous his fantasy really was.



OH! now I get it :biggrin:

Thanks.. was clueless..such a dork :smile:

guess I'll read it again now with your post in mind

[pariah-1972]

How dare you! she is one of the only things that made Xavier insteresting to me :cool:

But I would like to see her reformed in some way..the mumundrai over at X-men was kinda nice:wink:Shes practically a cliche i mean shes like an evil clone of Xavier !
and she is so confusing right now with that stuff thing it makes my head hurt.
Plus shes fugly :tongue:

[darknessatnoon]

Shes practically a cliche i mean shes like an evil clone of Xavier !
and she is so confusing right now with that stuff thing it makes my head hurt.
Plus shes fugly :tongue:

She is not a clone. She's a twin! She was aborted to satisfy the vain narcissism of Charles Xavier. And how dare you call her fugly when Beast still walks the pages of the X-Men?

[Flâneur]

I hope to god they never bring back Cassandra Nova:mad:

I hope they do. She was teh sex.

[Deus ex Chris]

Only Warren Ellis can do Cassie justice.

[Beast]

Although I like Brand and her connection with Beast, the whole thing was extremely forced and hopelessly thin.
See, I disagree. They nearly died, holed up in an ice cave. And then one thing led to another. :wink:

[frog]

She is not a clone. She's a twin! She was aborted to satisfy the vain narcissism of Charles Xavier. And how dare you call her fugly when Beast still walks the pages of the X-Men?

Cassandra is ugly even without her mustache and helmet.

Blue is beautiful!

[frog]

See, I disagree. They nearly died, holed up in an ice cave. And then one thing led to another. :wink:

Yes, the Beast and Brand thing is a classic opposites attract story, I could see it coming. I don't really believe they are soul mates but I think it certainly could do wonders for Beast's disposition in the here and now!

[pariah-1972]

She is not a clone. She's a twin! She was aborted to satisfy the vain narcissism of Charles Xavier. And how dare you call her fugly when Beast still walks the pages of the X-Men?I would rather have sex with Beast personally.
:tongue:

And i said she was LIKE an evil clone.
:tongue: :tongue:

[darknessatnoon]

Yes, the Beast and Brand thing is a classic opposites attract story, I could see it coming. I don't really believe they are soul mates but I think it certainly could do wonders for Beast's disposition in the here and now!

Then why is it not Brand who is married to Beast in The End and in GeNext? This is just a fling!

[frog]

Then why is it not Brand who is married to Beast in The End and in GeNext? This is just a fling!

That's why I said they are not soul mates! Brand will just, er, jolly Beast out of his blue funk til someone finally brings back Cece.

[darknessatnoon]

That's why I said they are not soul mates! Brand will just, er, jolly Beast out of his blue funk til someone finally brings back Cece.

This question deserves its own thread. "Who is Beast's Soulmate?"

[Deus ex Chris]

Gretchen, stop trying to make Cece happen! She's not going to happen!

[Pach!]

Gretchen, stop trying to make Cece happen! She's not going to happen!

How dare you quote Mean Girls for evil.

[gunnerfan69]

Now can we please have a writer that writes. I was fairly disappointed with the ending but then just about every story arc since 'danger' has been disappointing.

[Beast]

Now can we please have a writer that writes. I was fairly disappointed with the ending but then just about every story arc since 'danger' has been disappointing.
Try every storyarc since Gifted. Danger was pretty bad also.

And I still say Gifted is only held in such high regard due to the return of Colossus.

[pryde15]

I liked Gifted, but after that is just got silly.

[Cruelly_Innocent]

Shes practically a cliche i mean shes like an evil clone of Xavier !
and she is so confusing right now with that stuff thing it makes my head hurt.
Plus shes fugly :tongue:

Again How dare you! I like her weird hat and safari clothes, I like confusing..confusing is the core word of the X-universe

I would rather have sex with Beast personally.
:tongue:

And i said she was LIKE an evil clone.
:

I would rather cut my penis off thatn to bed either of them:wink:

[rZi]

I nearly shed a tear over this issue, with it being the last and all.

Ive made it very clear that i cannot find fault with the entire run (although some can..) and i thought Whedon delivered the ending most people both expected and wanted.

The scenes between both Beast&Brand and Scott&Emma were really great...joss always writes the romantic stuff well, i really hope brand becomes a more prominent figure in the MU as a result.

Everyone says Colossus is boring...and in some ways i can understand that but i felt he's nobility and determination in this issue was just great, like i found myself routing for him - "go peter!"

Did anyone else not understand why scott put his visor back on?

[phantom1592]

Why doesn't Marvel just kill off characters anymore and bring them back when needed? That would be much better then space limbo for these characters.

Just think about all the times Magneto has 'died'. He gets to have nice death scenes, everyone deals with the fallout of his death and then he is back a year or two later.

?!?!

Ok, I'm SOOOO Glad they didn't do that! AGAIN! Most people are getting sick of the "death of the Week" concept Like you said, How many times has Magneto died? Too many.

This ending was good the way it was. He got rid of a character, but it won't have to be retconned. Because she isn't DEAD. They just need to find some way to get her out of the Bullet. She doesn't need to show up on the doorsteps and claim bullet girl was actually a skrull or anything. Nothing in th story has to change. She's Gone. She can come back.

Personally I'm getting tired of everytime someone gets bored with a character or isn't going to write anymore they have to kill them so the rest of the universe can't play with that character.

Its selfish ;)

I much prefer retirement, moving, coma, and now Space Limbo as ways to get rid of characters then just old fashioned death.

[drmcnutt]

This was a great wrap up. I wasn't crazy about how long the title shipped, but the run on Astonishing X-men has been pretty great. I love Katherine Pryde and I thought it served her character well. Joss Whedon writes very cinematically and I thought the end was pretty cool. I didn't get spoiled by the internet rumors (that's why they call them spoilers - for the disappointed lot of you, sorry it spoiled your expectations).

I think the Marvel heroes had to be addressed because this is a Marvel book and any time the Earth is threatened the heroes show up in droves. I like the way this was handled and even showed the resident superman Sentry stopping the bullet as most critics would probably suggest. I think it was a clever way to handle it even if Alan Moore (and others I presume) had the idea first. If they weren't featured than the complaints would mount that they should be.

I loved Emma's line "astonished" she and KP have had such a long history together and I felt it was handled well throughout the storyline.

[Pyro]

I liked the way that Kitty's plot came full circle with Colossus'.

[lockerogue]

I liked Gifted, but after that is just got silly.

Agree. I mean can we have one Xavier mansion appliance that does not come to life and try to kill everyone.

[xmanson]

Oh, God., it's fianlly over. And it ended as it started - crap. Well, at least Whedon was consistent.

[pryde15]

Agree. I mean can we have one Xavier mansion appliance that does not come to life and try to kill everyone.

I heard the toaster helped the sentinels during Messiah Complex.

[gunnerfan69]

I heard the toaster helped the sentinels during Messiah Complex.

I heard the toaster is a sentinel :eek:

[HeckBoy]

I loved the early issues, but as the series went on, they felt a bit more lacking (I think this may be due to the delays more than anything else, like it didn't live up to the long waits). Cassaday's art was a pleasure throughout tho. And as a whole, I think this was one of my favorite X-runs, and certainly the saving grace of the X-Men titles that were out at the time of Astonishing's debut.

[lockerogue]

I heard the toaster helped the sentinels during Messiah Complex.

Damn all toasters in the MU to hell :mad:

[Hakael]

I heard the toaster helped the sentinels during Messiah Complex.

What do you think actually took down Elixir? A falling wall? No way... toaster. The wall fell on him afterwards.

[pryde15]

Damn all toasters in the MU to hell :mad:

lol. I'm not sure how to respond to that.

[lockerogue]

lol. I'm not sure how to respond to that.

I wouldn't know how either. lol

[pryde15]

I wouldn't know how either. lol

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[pariah-1972]

Damn all toasters in the MU to hell :mad:

Hey man there are some good toasters out there in the MU:wink:

[Flâneur]

An interesting thing - I just went through the book and after counting the pages, we only got 28 pages (instead of the normal 22) of Astonishing story. The other 16 were entirely used on the hero cameos. Hmmph.


Did anyone else not understand why scott put his visor back on?

It wasn't actually Emma who kept the blasts back anymore, Scott had been holding them in like the bowel movement from hell.

[Anna]

Then why is it not Brand who is married to Beast in The End and in GeNext? This is just a fling!


Because Chris Claremont didn't create her.

[darknessatnoon]

Because Chris Claremont didn't create her.

LOL.

He didn't create Beast either. He should do us all a favor and stop using him too.

[DeniseXfrost]

Did anyone else not understand why scott put his visor back on?
Emma blocking it the whole time?

[Sentou Ryoku]

Just finished reading and I got stumped as to how the Earth Heroes got stuck in that trance?

[Peter F.]

Hey man there are some good toasters out there in the MU:wink:

According to Bendis the Vision was little more than a toaster or a vacuum cleaner.

[pariah-1972]

According to Bendis the Vision was little more than a toaster or a vacuum cleaner.Well of course he would think that hes not smart enough to comprehend what a synthezoid is :tongue:

[storm_willing_slave]

Okay Storm telling Scott that Spidey is perhaps punching ppl( because they are under a spell) was funny. Too me, I think Spidey could be having a good time especially when he gets to Johnny!:biggrin:

[Syzygy]

Well, I agree with you about the delays, but this wasn't the problem with the story.

All of these heroes are gathered to just stand around and drool on themselves (literally), and without an explanation.
Nothing about Danger, despite the buildup. Her only contribution turns out to be a red herring.
Nothing about Cassie Nova, despite the buildup.
The subplot about Scott's powers: all for naught.
Although I like Brand and her connection with Beast, the whole thing was extremely forced and hopelessly thin.
Armor is proven to be nothing more than a cheap substitute for Jubilee and/or Kitty.
Lockheed being a SWORD mole. Dropped.
The Cure plotline. Dropped.
The whole "magic bullet" that defies even Marvel's comic book science and the inner logic of the story, itself.

If anything, the fact that Whedon and Cassaday had 4 freaking years to complete a 2-year story, and they couldn't even complete it, only calls more attention to the problem. This issue was rushed and incomplete, despite the fact these guys were given more than ample time to complete twice as much work.

The guy who wrote, a couple pages back, about this being phone in was spot on in his assessment.

I think I agree.

I'm fairly disappointed. Joss should be able to tie things up better than this.:frown:

[Tom A.]

Hi,
sorry if the question has already been asked, and I think it has to be a stupid question as nobody asked it in the first 6 pages, but I have to.
Why did the heroes on Earth became vegetables and did nothing, I didn't understand who did that... Did I miss a page ?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

So this went out as pretty much anybody with half an ounce of common sense guessed it would. Oh good. So worth the wait.. :confused:

Anyhow, at least Pryde is finally free of Whedon. And lets be honest, there aren't many groups in the marvel Universe whose job is purely to investigate and control extraterestrial threats - but that would be a best fit for any return. Maybe we mights see her on Guardians of the Galaxy, someday? Or perhaps she could return to earth and be dealt with by MI:13? It's not like she doesn't have 3 ties there already...

[Sean Whitmore]

Anyhow, at least Pryde is finally free of Whedon. And lets be honest, there aren't many groups in the marvel Universe whose job is purely to investigate and control extraterestrial threats. Maybe we mights see her on Guardians of the Galaxy, someday?

Scene from Guardians of the Galaxy #2:

The Guardians are fighting Badoon raiders in space. A giant bullet whizzes by in the background.

Quasar: "What the fuck was that?"

Star-Lord: "It was nothing. Pay attention, ya dingy broad."


SEAN

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Scene from Guardians of the Galaxy #2:

The Guardians are fighting Badoon raiders in space. A giant bullet whizzes by in the background.

Quasar: "What the fuck was that?"

Star-Lord: "It was nothing. Pay attention, ya dingy broad.."


SEAN

Lol! Something like that.

[pariah-1972]

I think it would be cool if Kitty landed on some distant alien planet and became ruler thru peaceful means of course.:smile:

[Suiciety]

Meh.

Petey's reaction at the end was lame and mostly unemotional. Whedon missed the mark (yet again). I suppose this sets up a possible future mini-series with Colossus searching for Kitty.

One good point: Petey got to say more in GAXM #1 than all other issues combined. :tongue:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Emma blocking it the whole time?

...She said herself it wasn't her doing.

This question deserves its own thread. "Who is Beast's Soulmate?"

Rotflmao.

I'll say the first one that had to be brainwashed along with her whole town.

And yes, just so Beast becomes vice-pres of the 'Xavier haterzzz mwahahahaha' club.

[Decepticons_Rule]

Kitty will be rescued by the Silver Surfer or that new lesbian Quasar or the new all-powerful Adam Warlock.

I'm hoping for the lesbian Quasar so that Colossus will be super happy when all three are in the mansion together.

Cue another Annihilation!!!

Just for the the love of God, no ending battle with a giant Ultron robot.

That was so lame.

[Phil Hunn]

Just for the the love of God, no ending battle with a giant Ultron robot.

That was so lame.

Giant Robot Battles make anything good.

Fact.

[Tobias March]

Will any of the other writers carry on with Beast working for SWORD I wonder?

As for the 'magical protection', Strange being turned into a weapon to send the collected heroes into a coma was interesting. I hope he is a Skrull, because we are constantly being reminded just how much of a deus ex he is in event books. If he's a Skrull agent then he intentionally shut them all down with that 'ideal world' blast to prevent them from saving the earth. A Giant Bullet does for the earth and the Skrulls are avenged (though without a territory to colonize....)

Back to the drawing board with this theory :tongue:

[DDM]

Given the delays, Giant Size Astonishing X-Men #1 has to be an incredible story, but, unfortunately, it's not; the story tries to link everything together with nebulous results. The art is nice.

2/10

[HellFrost]

First, I'd like to say I called it. I said she was going to phase the bullet through earth and be trapped in it forever and everyone ignored me. Oh well.:rolleyes:

Secondly, did Emma actually use her telepathy in Diamond Form? This is getting tiresome. What the hell!?!?!?

[Syzygy]

First, I'd like to say I called it. I said she was going to phase the bullet through earth and be trapped in it forever and everyone ignored me. Oh well.:rolleyes:

Secondly, did Emma actually use her telepathy in Diamond Form? This is getting tiresome. What the hell!?!?!?

DID SHE?

If so, that's great news for my Rumbles Team!!!!!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

On just what panels has this occurred?

[HellFrost]

DID SHE?

If so, that's great news for my Rumbles Team!!!!!!!:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

On just what panels has this occurred?

LOL.

I can't remember exactly when, but I think it's when she's punching an alien and she's yelling at either Scott or Colossus. Should be around the middle of the issue I believe.

This is also not the first time this has happened in Astonishing, of course Joss and John claimed that this was artists mistake, and yet it happened again.

EDIT: And I am rooting for you!

[Old No.7]

Given the delays, Giant Size Astonishing X-Men #1 has to be an incredible story, but, unfortunately, it's not; the story tries to link everything together with nebulous results. The art is nice.

2/10

While I agree with you for once, I find it utterly amazing that when Claremont fails to tie anything together it gets like a 9/10 from you, but when Whedon does it's a 2/10.

[rZi]

Given the delays, Giant Size Astonishing X-Men #1 has to be an incredible story, but, unfortunately, it's not; the story tries to link everything together with nebulous results. The art is nice.

2/10

You officlay suck!

And no he didn't attempt to tie it all together, that would be near impossible.

Cassandra nova's essence?

Emma and Danger's agreement about charles?

The cure for mutants?

So your 2/10 is way off.

[Old No.7]

You officlay suck!

And no he didn't attempt to tie it all together, that would be near impossible.

Cassandra nova's essence?

Emma and Danger's agreement about charles?

The cure for mutants?

So your 2/10 is way off.

The Emma/Danger agreement SHOULD have been put to an end. It had a direct effect on the story, as did Lockheed, although that one was less so. The fact that he didn't was pretty weak. The addition of the Marvel heroes and the lack of closure in several plot points really took a lot away from this story imo.

[DDM]

While I agree with you for once, I find it utterly amazing that when Claremont fails to tie anything together it gets like a 9/10 from you, but when Whedon does it's a 2/10.

I can usually see the connections Claremont makes in his stories, but with Whedon & the constant delays, I just feel nothing reading Whedon's stories. The delays just make the story-disconnect much easier to ignore & not really see what Whedon is trying to write in the story.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Will any of the other writers carry on with Beast working for SWORD I wonder?

In all likelihood? Not a chance.

Given the delays, Giant Size Astonishing X-Men #1 has to be an incredible story, but, unfortunately, it's not; the story tries to link everything together with nebulous results. The art is nice.

2/10

I'm with you 300% here, DDM. This has got to be the biggest X-Book disappointment in years. It may look pretty but, as with pretty much the entire of Whedon's second run on Astonishing in my opinion, it actually makes him look like a pretty mediocre writer, and shows up his flaws far more than it shows any strengths.

[rZi]

The addition of the Marvel heroes and the lack of closure in several plot points really took a lot away from this story imo.

I agree Brian.

I read an interview with Whedon about when he and Cassaday signed on longer than 15 issues, he said that when they planned to rap up for finale he wanted to "use as many characters as Marvel would allow" him to do so and at that time i don't think he realised how many plots this would neglect.

I understand a giant bullet heading for earth is of an epic nature, and using alot of heroes is the typical thing to do but this is an X-Men book, they should of handled it solo.

Although I doubt Marvel would let him end all of them, it gives Ellis material to work with after all.

[CmX]

Given the delays, Giant Size Astonishing X-Men #1 has to be an incredible story, but, unfortunately, it's not; the story tries to link everything together with nebulous results. The art is nice.

2/10

How expected of you, this coming from the person that gave CC's recent story arc a 8/10 lolies

[ExodusCloak]

First, I'd like to say I called it. I said she was going to phase the bullet through earth and be trapped in it forever and everyone ignored me. Oh well.:rolleyes:

Secondly, did Emma actually use her telepathy in Diamond Form? This is getting tiresome. What the hell!?!?!?

Yeah she also knocked Ord over the railing with a Diamond Punch...Ord seems more then Class 50 IMO.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It was a bad mix all around, really. I know that the X-Men aren't in a universe on their own, but given that this issue was hitting shelves during a brand wide crossover, with pretty much every character involved, this one just sticks out like a sore thumb even more.

[ExodusCloak]

The issue had to include all of Marvels big hitters though, otherwise we'd have people saying that the Sentry, Dr. Strange or Reed Richards could have saved Kitty Pryde from her bullet fate much like I still say Elixir could have saved Aunt May from her fate in BND.

The Danger/Emma plot might continue into Elis's run I realize that Warren said he wanted a clean slate but given the circumstances with Xavier and the MC the plot will probably only resurface a year from now when Xavier is back with the X-Men. (This takes place before Legacy and the MC)

The drooling was down to the magical protection of the bullet which knocked Strange into a coma like state and then hit everyone in the room.

The Cassandra Nova story could be considered resolved in the Torn arc but it is loosely left open so any writer can pick up on it in the future.

As for Scotts optic blast. Emma fixed the mental trauma but Scott was still getting used to handling the strain of his powers without his visor. If you look at the AXM #25 preview you'll see Scott and Emma having visorless sex. So we might see Scott slowly learning to cope without a visor.

[dotdotdot]

i wonder why you guys think that lockheed's actions make him some sort of traitor....by the end it's not at if s.w.o.r.d.'s goals were different from the x-men's. so the idea that there is some part of this plot that went missing is just boggling my mind.

[dotdotdot]

The issue had to include all of Marvels big hitters though, otherwise we'd have people saying that the Sentry, Dr. Strange or Reed Richards could have saved Kitty Pryde from her bullet fate much like I still say Elixir could have saved Aunt May from her fate in BND.

The Danger/Emma plot might continue into Elis's run I realize that Warren said he wanted a clean slate but given the circumstances with Xavier and the MC the plot will probably only resurface a year from now when Xavier is back with the X-Men. (This takes place before Legacy and the MC)

The drooling was down to the magical protection of the bullet which knocked Strange into a coma like state and then hit everyone in the room.

The Cassandra Nova story could be considered resolved in the Torn arc but it is loosely left open so any writer can pick up on it in the future.

As for Scotts optic blast. Emma fixed the mental trauma but Scott was still getting used to handling the strain of his powers without his visor. If you look at the AXM #25 preview you'll see Scott and Emma having visorless sex. So we might see Scott slowly learning to cope without a visor.

yeah this is how i feel. those arcs all ended well, despite the way they left some loose ends for other writers to take on.
i mean you probably have a board full of claremont fans ripping on this approach. ultimate irony.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The issue had to include all of Marvels big hitters though, otherwise we'd have people saying that the Sentry, Dr. Strange or Reed Richards could have saved Kitty Pryde from her bullet fate much like I still say Elixir could have saved Aunt May from her fate in BND.

Really, though, did it? Whedon's book has been such a privatre microcosm, why pretend it wants to fit into the brand properly, now?

The Danger/Emma plot might continue into Elis's run I realize that Warren said he wanted a clean slate but given the circumstances with Xavier and the MC the plot will probably only resurface a year from now when Xavier is back with the X-Men.

Ellis' run is intended to be a 100% clean break. He made t perfectly clear he was going to respect Whedon's run, by leaving it the hell alone. He wanted a new title for the book, to reflect that.

The Cassandra Nova story could be considered resolved in the Torn arc but it is loosely left open so any writer can pick up on it in the future.

Oh dear God, I hope they don't.

As for Scotts optic blast. Emma fixed the mental trauma but Scott was still getting used to controlling his powers without his visor. If you look at the AXM #25 preview you'll see Scott and Emma having visorless sex. So we might see Scott slowly learning to cope without a visor.

We might. But in all honesty I doubt much of Whedon's work is going to stand any real test of time. See also Beast working with SWORD.

[dotdotdot]

We might. But in all honesty I doubt much of Whedon's work is going to stand any real test of time.

you can't be serious.

[Old No.7]

i wonder why you guys think that lockheed's actions make him some sort of traitor....by the end it's not at if s.w.o.r.d.'s goals were different from the x-men's. so the idea that there is some part of this plot that went missing is just boggling my mind.

Why did Whedon label him as a traitor in his story? What was the problem with Lockheed's homeworld, why did he feel he could only get SWORD's help and not the X-Men? Why spy on the X-Men?

[ExodusCloak]

Really, though, did it? Whedon's book has been such a privatre microcosm, why pretend it wants to fit into the brand properly, now?

But if you remember in the first arc when New York was under attack by monsters the Fantastic Four lent a hand. And Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. also butted in when needed. So it wasn't really that isolated from the rest of the MU more so from the X-Universe. The Danger arc took place at the X-Mansion and Genosha so I wouldn't expect much interference from the rest of the MU. Torn took place at the X-Mansion so again I wouldn't expect much help from the rest of the MU. Unstoppable took place off Earth so it wasn't really appropriate to have help from the rest of the MU...although S.W.O.R.D. could have involved some of the other heroes (But it should be noted that it was mutant who was destined to destroy Breakerworld)
I think they did that mainly because A.) the Earth was under attack so this becomes everyones problem and B.) There were a lot of complaints about continuity.

From what I gather this takes place between the pages of X-Men #204.

[dotdotdot]

Why did Whedon label him as a traitor in his story? What was the problem with Lockheed's homeworld, why did he feel he could only get SWORD's help and not the X-Men? Why spy on the X-Men?

was he labeled a traitor?

[Old No.7]

was he labeled a traitor?

Yes, in the solicits.

[Fatguy]

I voted mediocre, which is a shame, because I have LOVED Whedon's Astonishing. For the big finale, this was really disappointing for me.

[dotdotdot]

Yes, in the solicits.

find me those solicits. if so, then ok, he somewhat betrayed the x-men by owing his allegiance to sword and not telling them.
still don't see what blanks you need filling in as far as this goes. i get the vibe that many of you just refuse to do any of the work here. god forbid we demand anything of the audience.

edit: wow. incredible amount of typos

[ExodusCloak]

Why did Whedon label him as a traitor in his story? What was the problem with Lockheed's homeworld, why did he feel he could only get SWORD's help and not the X-Men? Why spy on the X-Men?

I'd actually like to know some of those answers as well but given the circumstances/urgency it wasn't the best of times to quiz Lockheed. There's a S.W.O.R.D. mini coming out maybe that will shed some light on the situation. I'd like to see more of that Psychic Lama alien anyway.

Might ask Mike Carey about it.

[Old No.7]

find me those solicits. if so, then ok, he someone betrayed the x-men by owing his allegiance to sword and not telling them.
still don't see what blanks you need filling in as far as this goes. i bet the vibe that many of you just refuse to do any of the work here. god forbid we demand anything of the audience.

Find the solicit yourself, I know what I read, you do the damn work.

The Lockheed plot was something he introduced, he gave very little info on it, what was the point of it? God forbid we demand writers actually put forth some effort when closing up their plots.

Where was the Danger/Emma plot line? That had a direct effect on the story? Or do you wanna make up another bullshit condescending response to that one? This issue wasn't as good as the stuff he put out prior, stop looking at with a blind eye.

[ExodusCloak]

Where was the Danger/Emma plot line? That had a direct effect on the story? Or do you wanna make up another bullshit condescending response to that one? This issue wasn't as good as the stuff he put out prior, stop looking at with a blind eye.

Most of Joss's scripts were finished before the Messiah Complex, I think some of it had to be revised as it isn't likely that he would have known the ending of the MC when he wrote those scripts. Considering the situation with Xavier at the moment it doesn't seem like that plot will be resolved soon since Legacy is supposed to continue into 2009.
I see this plot being resolved later down the line but I think we can agree that one issue(Giant-Sized) isn't enough to resolve that plot.
In a way Emma has gone full circle and is still the is she/isn't she potential traitor X-Women.

[Old No.7]

Most of Joss's scripts were finished before the Messiah Complex, I think some of it had to be revised as it isn't likely that he would have known the ending of the MC when he wrote those scripts. Considering the situation with Xavier at the moment it doesn't seem like that plot will be resolved soon since Legacy is supposed to continue into 2009.
I see this plot being resolved later down the line but I think we can agree that one issue(Giant-Sized) isn't enough to resolve that plot.
In a way Emma has gone full circle and is still the is she/isn't she X-Women.

That's a good point that maybe they didn't feel then need to resolve it due to the ending of Messiah Complex, but there still should have been some interaction between Emma and Danger in this issue. The issue felt like a cut and paste job.

[Affinity]

Lol psychic llama! He was awesome. "I ssseeenseeeee destructionnnnn."

Fun issue. Works as a whole; a gigantic, enormous whole. LOL.

[Fatguy]

a gigantic, enormous whole.

You're gonna get Nyssane all excited with talk like this.

[ExodusCloak]

That's a good point that maybe they didn't feel then need to resolve it due to the ending of Messiah Complex, but there still should have been some interaction between Emma and Danger in this issue. The issue felt like a cut and paste job.

I agree with you there, Danger just seemed to have disappeared. Last I remember she was helping Kitty's team. So she should have at least been shown on the ship with Wolverine and the others unless Brand, Wolverine and Beast dumped her in the Breakerworld Energy Core off panel.

[dotdotdot]

Find the solicit yourself, I know what I read, you do the damn work.

The Lockheed plot was something he introduced, he gave very little info on it, what was the point of it? God forbid we demand writers actually put forth some effort when closing up their plots.



well it gave lockheed an incredible amount of depth never seen for that character, i'll tell you that. also, don't mention something if you can't quote it.

[dotdotdot]

Where was the Danger/Emma plot line? That had a direct effect on the story? Or do you wanna make up another bullshit condescending response to that one? This issue wasn't as good as the stuff he put out prior, stop looking at with a blind eye.

when someone on here calls me condescending it always means i was right about something and it pissed them off.
but yeah, you wanted to see a resolution to emma's promise to danger. seems like with xavier off doing his thing and with continuity issues this was left for someone else. in no way did it disrupt or lessen the impact of this issue.

[Pro]

don't mention something if you can't quote it.

Thumper: [clears throat] If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all.

That's a quote from Bambi.

[Old No.7]

when someone on here calls me condescending it always means i was right about something and it pissed them off.
but yeah, you wanted to see a resolution to emma's promise to danger. seems like with xavier off doing his thing and with continuity issues this was left for someone else. in no way did it disrupt or lessen the impact of this issue.

You aren't right,. Get over yourself, it gets really old the way you talk down to folks.

[Old No.7]

well it gave lockheed an incredible amount of depth never seen for that character, i'll tell you that. also, don't mention something if you can't quote it.

I know it's in the solicits, stop being lazy and go find it yourself.

[dotdotdot]

You aren't right,. Get over yourself, it gets really old the way you talk down to folks.

i'm just telling you i see right through that last resort "condescending" remark. it gets really old the way boarders have a really hard time making logical or effective arguments.

[dotdotdot]

I know it's in the solicits, stop being lazy and go find it yourself.

don't bring it up if you can't show the evidence. i believe you and all, but the burden is on you to back up a claim, not me.

[dotdotdot]

Thumper: [clears throat] If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all.

That's a quote from Bambi.

i like the cut of your jib, guy

[ExodusCloak]

It could be in one of the Astonishing X-Men X-Positions.

Here are all the Marvel.com Astonishing X-Men solicits.
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/Astonishing%20X-men

[dotdotdot]

cool, thanks

[Old No.7]

It could be in one of the Astonishing X-Men X-Positions.

Here are all the Marvel.com Astonishing X-Men solicits.
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/Astonishing%20X-men

Maybe I was wrong because I don't see it in those solicits.

[ExodusCloak]

Maybe I was wrong because I don't see it in those solicits.

There was a lot of talk on the net about the X-traitor. A lot of users were referring to Lockheed as a traitor so you could have confused things there. But in honesty I don't think that invalidates the point you made. There is a story to tell regarding Lockheed, personally I don't think the Giant-Sized issue was the appropriate time but I hope Mike Carey sets something up in the S.W.O.R.D. mini he's writing.

[pryde15]

There was a lot of talk on the net about the X-traitor. A lot of users were referring to Lockheed as a traitor so you could have confused things there. But in honesty I don't think that invalidates the point you made. There is a story to tell regarding Lockheed, personally I don't think the Giant-Sized issue was the appropriate time but I hope Mike Carey sets something up in the S.W.O.R.D. mini he's writing.

I remember people talking about Lockheed being the x-traitor as well.

[dotdotdot]

I remember people talking about Lockheed being the x-traitor as well.

from reading the book, solicits, etc....there was never any traitor plot i was expecting to pay off in this arc. i'm not sure where that idea surfaced.

[HellFrost]

Yeah she also knocked Ord over the railing with a Diamond Punch...Ord seems more then Class 50 IMO.
I agree. He definitely came off as being of a more high end strength class.
The issue had to include all of Marvels big hitters though, otherwise we'd have people saying that the Sentry, Dr. Strange or Reed Richards could have saved Kitty Pryde from her bullet fate much like I still say Elixir could have saved Aunt May from her fate in BND.

The Danger/Emma plot might continue into Elis's run I realize that Warren said he wanted a clean slate but given the circumstances with Xavier and the MC the plot will probably only resurface a year from now when Xavier is back with the X-Men. (This takes place before Legacy and the MC)

The drooling was down to the magical protection of the bullet which knocked Strange into a coma like state and then hit everyone in the room.

The Cassandra Nova story could be considered resolved in the Torn arc but it is loosely left open so any writer can pick up on it in the future.

As for Scotts optic blast. Emma fixed the mental trauma but Scott was still getting used to handling the strain of his powers without his visor. If you look at the AXM #25 preview you'll see Scott and Emma having visorless sex. So we might see Scott slowly learning to cope without a visor.
I agree with this completely.

I have to say that I actually really enjoyed the issue. I thought it answered what it needed to. Of course, I am aware that this is simply my opinion and I am of the minority here. Just thought I'd chime in.

[ExodusCloak]

from reading the book, solicits, etc....there was never any traitor plot i was expecting to pay off in this arc. i'm not sure where that idea surfaced.

I kind of expected Lockheed to leave to work with S.W.O.R.D. on a more permanent basis, but after seeing Kitty's reaction to being told that Lockheed was an Agent of S.W.O.R.D. I stopped expecting any other kind of confrontation especially when you consider the state of urgency the X-Men were in. As far as everyone was concerned there was no time for it as there was a Magical Bullet pointed at the Earth. The part I loved was the fact that they tell us that there's bullet pointed at the Earth in the first arc and I just took it for granted.

[ExodusCloak]

I have to say that I actually really enjoyed the issue. I thought it answered what it needed to. Of course, I am aware that this is simply my opinion and I am of the minority here. Just thought I'd chime in.

Agreed.. I can empathize with the people who disliked the issue though. Whedons run had a few major shockers and this issue lacked that. That's pretty much my only critic of the issue, we all expected a "yeahbuhwhat" moment and it never came. Apart from that I'll treasure this run, the panel timing of Xavier and Emma in tears was done very, very well IMO.

[HellFrost]

Agreed.. I can empathize with the people who disliked the issue though. Whedons run had a few major shockers and this issue lacked that. That's pretty much my only critic of the issue, we all expected a "yeabuhwhat" moment and it never came. Apart from that I'll treasure this run, the panel timing of Xavier and Emma in tears was done very, very well IMO.

I understand what you mean about the 'shock' moment. I thought the timing was good too. Emma was so deeply hurt by this and it showed.

[DDM]

As for Scotts optic blast. Emma fixed the mental trauma but Scott was still getting used to handling the strain of his powers without his visor. If you look at the AXM #25 preview you'll see Scott and Emma having visorless sex. So we might see Scott slowly learning to cope without a visor.

Whedon contradicts previously established continuity: Scott cannot control his optic blasts since the brain part was damaged when his parachutte caught fire & landed on his head; as a result, he was in a coma for a year before waking up in the Nebraska orphanage run by Mister Sinister. Emma's telepathy cannot fix Scott's brain trauma because it was due to a physical damage to his head. Despite Whedon's story, Scott's brain damage is not psychological. He's getting confused with Rogue.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Whedon contradicts previously established continuity: Scott cannot control his optic blasts since the brain part was damaged when his parachutte caught fire & landed on his head; as a result, he was in a coma for a year before waking up in the Nebraska orphanage run by Mister Sinister. Emma's telepathy cannot fix Scott's brain trauma because it was due to a physical damage to his head. Despite Whedon's story, Scott's brain damage is not psychological. He's getting confused with Rogue.

To be fair that IS a very valid point.

[ExodusCloak]

Whedon contradicts previously established continuity: Scott cannot control his optic blasts since the brain part was damaged when his parachutte caught fire & landed on his head; as a result, he was in a coma for a year before waking up in the Nebraska orphanage run by Mister Sinister. Emma's telepathy cannot fix Scott's brain trauma because it was due to a physical damage to his head. Despite Whedon's story, Scott's brain damage is not psychological. He's getting confused with Rogue.

He retconned it but it was done tastefully IMO. I mean think about it, with people like Elixir running around it's kind of odd having Xavier physically crippled and in a wheelchair and Scott with brain tissue damage. It was sort of implied in AXM that Scott used the brain damage as an excuse to avoid dealing with the real issues which were psychological. So it may have been a retcon but I don't think anyone should lose any sleep over it. IMO it's an improvement.

[DDM]

He retconned it but it was done tastefully IMO. I mean think about it, with people like Elixir running around it's kind of odd having Xavier in a wheelchair and Scott with brain tissue damage. It was sort of implied in AXM that Scott used the brain damage as an excuse to avoid dealing with the real issues which were psychological. So it may have been a retcon but I don't think anyone should lose any sleep over it.

This is something that can't really be tastefully or elegantly retconned. Whedon made a big mistake & his editor should have caught the mistake. The mistake stands out like a sore thumb. It's not like Scott's brain damage is some obscure data. Any comic book writer should know this well beforehand.

[ExodusCloak]

This is something that can't really be tastefully or elegantly retconned. Whedon made a big mistake & his editor should have caught the mistake. The mistake stands out like a sore thumb. It's not like Scott's brain damage is some obscure data. Any comic book writer should know this well beforehand.

But again note that with people like Elixir running around, most physical handicaps which were once relevant during the 60's aren't today since the solution is sitting right in front of them.
You're entitled to your opinion but IMO I feel that the retcon makes a lot more sense.

[HellFrost]

Whedon contradicts previously established continuity: Scott cannot control his optic blasts since the brain part was damaged when his parachutte caught fire & landed on his head; as a result, he was in a coma for a year before waking up in the Nebraska orphanage run by Mister Sinister. Emma's telepathy cannot fix Scott's brain trauma because it was due to a physical damage to his head. Despite Whedon's story, Scott's brain damage is not psychological. He's getting confused with Rogue.

I believe that Emma most certainly could have healed him. Her ability to utilize psychic surgery gives her a limited ability to heal others from physical wounds. It's a form of mind over matter. The body does what the mind tells it to. Emma is the telepathic version of a swiss army knife/first aid kit. You yourself claim she is among the most skilled and powerful of all the telepaths in the MU, why doubt her here?

[Tobias March]

Yes Scott's brain damage should be placed on a relative Retcon scale with Jean's death, or Sage.....heck everything to do with Sage and see how these measure up.

Personally I found the Cyclops' powers psychologically impaired angle more an exhausting digression on Morrison's Black Bug Room scene. In fact the whole Cylon Six like projection of Cassandra Nova in this storyline I found equally tiresome. I found Whedon's attempts to follow up on New X-Men jettisoned more than they preserved. Much like the obvious 'crystal Emma shouldn't be telepathic' stuff.

[CmX]

This is something that can't really be tastefully or elegantly retconned. Whedon made a big mistake & his editor should have caught the mistake. The mistake stands out like a sore thumb. It's not like Scott's brain damage is some obscure data. Any comic book writer should know this well beforehand.

I wonder what your reaction to this would have been if let's say.. Claremont wrote that plotline.

[dotdotdot]

This is something that can't really be tastefully or elegantly retconned. Whedon made a big mistake & his editor should have caught the mistake. The mistake stands out like a sore thumb. It's not like Scott's brain damage is some obscure data. Any comic book writer should know this well beforehand.

no ddm, you're just a stickler for continuity at all costs. can it. no editor "missed" this, it wasn't a mistake. everyone liked it so they went with it. luckily, the audience also liked it. QED.

[Red Lotus]

Whedon contradicts previously established continuity: Scott cannot control his optic blasts since the brain part was damaged when his parachutte caught fire & landed on his head; as a result, he was in a coma for a year before waking up in the Nebraska orphanage run by Mister Sinister. Emma's telepathy cannot fix Scott's brain trauma because it was due to a physical damage to his head. Despite Whedon's story, Scott's brain damage is not psychological. He's getting confused with Rogue.

There was an issue of Wolverine where Scott while falling bump his head and they some think like it corrected something that was done long ago. So Maybe now it is in his head.

[dotdotdot]

i mean it's hardly even a retcon at all to say that there has been some sort of healing since that early injury and now some of the obstacles are psychological. there really isn't any conflict there with continuity. what is this nonsense?

[Deus ex Chris]

Does it really matter? Emma's fix was temporary. He's back to normal.

[Donald]

I was just disappointed while Kitty was going through the planet she didn't say

"I'm a leaf on the wind.."


Schrodinger's Kitty...:biggrin: :biggrin: :tongue: :tongue:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Does is really matter? Emma's fix was temporary. He's back to normal.

A-freakin-men. Sheesh.

Once all's said and done, all Whedon and the !evil! editor did was to say "Sure, have someone mindrape him with pinpoint precision and put him in a coma and THEN he'll be able to control his optic blasts. For like three days."

Not quite a world-shattering retcon, lol.

[Affinity]

Yeah, it lasted three days, but reading the issues where he first wakes up after the 'coma' is both awesome and hilarious.

It was fun. It fits right into Cyclops in his Messiah-Complex mode.

[steve2275]

This was the single worst $5 comic I ever bought..
ah
but you did buy it :tongue:

[mikekerr3]

This is something that can't really be tastefully or elegantly retconned. Whedon made a big mistake & his editor should have caught the mistake. The mistake stands out like a sore thumb. It's not like Scott's brain damage is some obscure data. Any comic book writer should know this well beforehand.

Off panel Elixer spent 5 minutes and fixed him, no retcon necessary:biggrin:

[Anna]

Looks like Emma felt Kitty's loss more than Storm did. But then again Storm only cares about herself....

[The Sword Is Drawn]

He retconned it but it was done tastefully IMO. I mean think about it, with people like Elixir running around it's kind of odd having Xavier physically crippled and in a wheelchair and Scott with brain tissue damage.

Yes, but by that same school of thought there may as well be no threat whatsoever in comics - because Elixir can fix it!!!! Wooohoooo!

Er... no. Elixir has limits. He can heal a wound at the time but, let us say, that somebody has lost a limb or suffered severe nerve damage - things which have been left for years. Things which the body itself has healed over and adapted around. Elixir can heal the body - but he can't modify it. Otherwise there simply wouldn't be any point in the character. He'd be nothing more than a lame plot device.

I wonder what your reaction to this would have been if let's say.. Claremont wrote that plotline.

Personally, I'd still think it sucked. Only I'd probably have been eve sterner on it.

(Yes. I am still bitter about Die by the Sword. So shoot me :biggrin: )

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Double post shenanigans...

[Syzygy]

Whedon contradicts previously established continuity: Scott cannot control his optic blasts since the brain part was damaged when his parachutte caught fire & landed on his head; as a result, he was in a coma for a year before waking up in the Nebraska orphanage run by Mister Sinister. Emma's telepathy cannot fix Scott's brain trauma because it was due to a physical damage to his head. Despite Whedon's story, Scott's brain damage is not psychological. He's getting confused with Rogue.

Actually, if one particular part of the brain is damaged, a different part can sometimes adapt to perform the lost function.

While this might have been the case with Scott's brain damage, Whedon, admittedly, never explained it this way.

Off panel Elixer spent 5 minutes and fixed him, no retcon necessary:biggrin:

Given that he now possesses all of Hank McCoy's knowledge, yes, there's no reason why that can't be the case, except that Joss never told us it was.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Actually, if one particular part of the brain is damaged, a different part can sometimes adapt to perform the lost function.

While this might have been the case with Scott's brain damage, Whedon, admittedly, never explained it this way.

Given that he now possesses all of Hank McCoy's knowledge, yes, there's no reason why that can't be the case, except that Joss never told us it was.

Exactly. I mean that would be like Whedon acknowledging there were other titles out there! Heresy! :eek:

[DeniseXfrost]

Yes, but by that same school of thought there may as well be no threat whatsoever in comics - because Elixir can fix it!!!! Wooohoooo!

Er... no. Elixir has limits. He can heal a wound at the time but, let us say, that somebody has lost a limb or suffered severe nerve damage - things which have been left for years. Things which the body itself has healed over and adapted around. Elixir can heal the body - but he can't modify it. Otherwise there simply wouldn't be any point in the character. He'd be nothing more than a lame plot device.

Actually, he can. I remember he gave David a new heart plus he's an omega level, although he hasn't mastered his full potential yet.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Actually, he can. I remember he gave David a new heart plus he's an omega level, although he hasn't mastered his full potential yet.

Deus ex Machina. :rolleyes:

[Saturius]

Looks like Emma felt Kitty's loss more than Storm did. But then again Storm only cares about herself....

I doubt most writers even know that Storm and Kitty had a mother/daughter relationship.

[DeniseXfrost]

Deus ex Machina. :rolleyes:
I know.
Looks like Emma felt Kitty's loss more than Storm did. But then again Storm only cares about herself....
LOL Oh storm and her big hair.

[ExodusCloak]

Deus ex Machina. :rolleyes:

It's not just Elixir though, Rachel can modify DNA when she feels like it and Exodus can fix Xavier's brain on a sub atomic level when it suits him with his TK. IRRC Magneto also did some brain therapy in Fatal Attractions. BTW Has Angel or Wolverine ever used their healing factor on Scott?
Also usually if you have a problem in the MU the first thing you'd do is go to Reed Richards, Dr. Strange or Iron Man and these days the Black Panther because they have seem to have everything these days. Pretty much what Beast did in Endangered Species one of them would definitely be able to help.

[Tobias March]

Yes, but by that same school of thought there may as well be no threat whatsoever in comics - because Elixir can fix it!!!! Wooohoooo!


What's that you say? Luke Cage doesn't say "Holy Christmas" anymore? Retcon! I declare retcon shennanigans on that!! :wink:

I believe someone above mentioned that the psychological disorder in lieu of brain damage was more an update of the original idea, and I have no problem with that. In many cases Xavier seems more of a 'help those who help themselves', kinda character. Exactly why hasn't he cured Rogue yet? Or Wolverine, how exactly was it that the most powerful telepath in the world couldn't do what Wanda did with a flick of her wrist?

My point is Xavier perhaps allows for people to heal themselves by giving them the correct tools (I regret mentioning the Logan example now...) rather than just fix everything. Emma's less considerate of personal growth on that score.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

What's that you say? Luke Cage doesn't say "Holy Christmas" anymore? Retcon! I declare retcon shennanigans on that!! :wink:

Lol. I don't miss that. But that's not what I'm getting at here. This is third instance in recent times where somebody has suggested that Elixir should fix everything. Nocturne has a stroke on the other side of the world, in a team with few direct links to the X-Men. Get Elixir in. Caliban gets offed in Messiah Complex. Get Elixir in. Scott has had physical damage done to his brain decades ago. Bring Elixir in!!!

If you're going to have a character who can fix ANYBODY, there really is no point any more. There would be no actual level of threat - because the magical Elixir could make them ALL better again. Meh. :frown:

[timbox]

If you're going to have a character who can fix ANYBODY, there really is no point any more. There would be no actual level of threat - because the magical Elixir could make them ALL better again. Meh. :frown:

That's why he's vulnerable to hard objects, such as walls. He can easily be subdued for days and weeks at a time. :tongue:

[HellFrost]

My point is Xavier perhaps allows for people to heal themselves by giving them the correct tools (I regret mentioning the Logan example now...) rather than just fix everything. Emma's less considerate of personal growth on that score.

.........Please. Let's not get into a discussion over Xavier's ethics over Emma's.

Thank you.

[ExodusCloak]

Lol. I don't miss that. But that's not what I'm getting at here. This is third instance in recent times where somebody has suggested that Elixir should fix everything. Nocturne has a stroke on the other side of the world, in a team with few direct links to the X-Men. Get Elixir in. Caliban gets offed in Messiah Complex. Get Elixir in. Scott has had physical damage done to his brain decades ago. Bring Elixir in!!!

If you're going to have a character who can fix ANYBODY, there really is no point any more. There would be no actual level of threat - because the magical Elixir could make them ALL better again. Meh. :frown:

I'm sorry but I really don't get the point you're trying to make and how it's of any relevance to the retcon in question. I think everyone here agrees with you that he's a Deux Ex Machina but so what it's how another writer has wrote him and there are plenty of other characters who could actually heal a little brain damage Claremonts Dino Rachel Grey, Morrisons Jean Grey, Wong and Dr. Strange. A little Brain tissue damage is nothing when he regrew a Heart from nothing. Granted it's ridiculous but it has no bearing on the retcon in question. For all we know the damage done to Scotts brain during the accident wasn't that severe, he just used that he landed on his head as an excuse to avoid other issues which were psychological. It's more like the story is being built upon into something that makes a lot more sense in today's Marvels Universe rather then being retconned. I mean if you were trying to extract information from someone you would use a telepath rather then interrogation the same logic applies to the character Elixir and long term injuries.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm sorry but I really don't get the point you're trying to make and how it's of any relevance to the retcon in question.

It isn't. A few people started saying that maybe Elixir could have fixed Scott's injury off panel. I said that was ridiculous, and that if we were to have Elixir magically fixing EVERYbody, what would be the point?

I fail to see where the confusion is, here.

[ExodusCloak]

It isn't. A few people started saying that maybe Elixir could have fixed Scott's injury off panel. I said that was ridiculous, and that if we were to have Elixir magically fixing EVERYbody, what would be the point?

I fail to see where the confusion is, here.

Well the logical thing in the X-Universe would be to do that. I mean I totally expect Vulcan to force Elixir to heal his eye/face when he comes to Earth.
It also forces the writers to progress from the 40 years of X-lore and focus on character flaws rather then physical flaws or build upon them like in the Joss/Scott thing in which Elixirs powers don't have an effect.

I mean look at X-Force:
Rhane just got an overdose of heroin, the logical thing to do is get Elixir.
Angel just lost his wings, get Elixir.

The MC:
Nightcrawler's been shot threw the chest and Julians just been stabbed through the chest, get Elixir...oh wait a wall fell on him he's also out.

It's just logical but good writers can work around that and that's what Joss, Yost and Kyle have done. What would truly be ridiculous is if the X-Men didn't utilize ALL their resources to solve a situation like Psylocke and her varying telekinesis levels which apparently have no finnese but she can alter herself on a molecular level to make herself invisible.

[Mikl C]

The best bit was Spiderman and Storm.

I liked how Spiderman realised stopping the bullet with WEBBING was unfeasbile.

Kitty phased a huge object through the planet. Why didn't that fry every piece of machinery going?

[HellFrost]

The best bit was Spiderman and Storm.

I liked how Spiderman realised stopping the bullet with WEBBING was unfeasbile.

Kitty phased a huge object through the planet. Why didn't that fry every piece of machinery going?

Lol. Yeah, I laughed at that moment as well.

And I was also wondering the same thing. Unless it all did and we just don't know about it. Or that it was so quick it merely caused a small amount of static and that was it. The bullet was big, but it was traveling at an incredibly high speed.