X-Force #4 Spoiled!

[frog]

X-23 is ruminating on recovering Rahne from the Purifiers. She has concluded that the Purifiers have intentionally given Wolfsbane a nonlethal overdose for reasons of their own but emotions keep the rest of X-Force from recognizing the significance of this. Wolverine takes offense to X-23’s comment that Rahne should have known better to have been captured and tells Laura that it is for people like Rahne that they risk their lives. Warpath interrupts Logan’s outburst and takes him away to cool off.

Elixir speaks to Rahne as he sees that she is coming to, but she immediately changes form and attacks. X-23 has been trying unsuccessfully to grasp what Wolverine said to her when she smells the blood and hears Rahne ripping Warren’s wings away. X-23 is about to dispatch Rahne when she remembers Logan’s words, retracts her claws and allows Wolfsbane to gut her and escape.

At the Purifier base in Chicago Mathew Risman instructs Brother Eli to collect Rahne and take her to a man named Adam Harkin. Risman then speaks to Bastion who tells him that the Reverend Stryker will return and take control of the Purifiers for “The Day”. Meanwhile at a SHIELD office, Agent Morales is trying to make sense of the Purifier activity of late and surmises that whatever they are up to, they are only beginning.

X-23 regains her consciousness as Warpath and Wolverine return to find Angel in bad condition. Elixir recovers enough to heal most of Angel’s body but can’t grow back the wings – he finds that the cells aren’t organic and block his healing power.

The scientist Adam Harkin has found that the Apocalypse Strand permeates Warren’s severed wings. He manages to extract some cells to implant in a test subject, Gabriel. Gabriel soon begins to sprout his own wings. Harkin is surprised that he isn’t hurt by the process as his DNA is being changed by alien technology. However, a simultaneous reaction is happening to Warren at his home as he convulses in agony and his bandages rupture.

Risman observes the subject Gabriel and tells him he is the first of the Choir and will lead in striking down Satan’s Spawn. Then Harkin reveals a small army of men receiving the same treatment as Gabriel.

The remainder of X-Force now stares in horror as Angel continues to change into Archangel, and X-23 muses that Logan didn’t include Warren in the list of people they should die for, but that may not matter . . .



Things just keep getting worse and worse for X-Force. X-23 truly has a better grasp on what is happening than the rest of the team. Perhaps she would be better off if Logan simply allowed her to continue thinking purely in terms of tactics. When she tries to comprehend feelings they only hurt her and dull her instincts.

[Naela]

Apparently whatever's happening to Warren's also given him enhanced strength considering what Warpath said and how easily Warren tossed Wolverine and Warpath away. Even has Archangel, I don't believe he was that strong :confused:

Also I'm so glad someone's finally touching on Apocalypse's connection with why Angel regrew his wings.

[Pro]

he finds that the cells aren’t organic and block his healing power.

Glad to hear his feathered wings were never organic to begin with when they returned. That never made a whit of sense to me. Might mean we'll see him able to transform from Angel to Archangel on cue after all. Guess his healing blood came from Apocalypse as well then.

Now .. who else did Angel infect with Apocalypse cells by healing them ..

Even has Archangel, I don't believe he was that strong

He has the equivalent strength of a swan! And as silly as that sounds a swan can break your arm with a wingswipe. A mansized swan .. well.

[creaky]

For some reason, the only one I'm feeling really bad for is Laura.:frown:

[Naela]

He has the equivalent strength of a swan! And as silly as that sounds a swan can break your arm with a wingswipe. A mansized swan .. well.

Yeah, I know Angel's wings are supposed to be strong... but Warren didn't have his wings in the first place when Warpath was basically "he can't be this strong!" and we're talking about a guy who's supposed to X-Force's 'strong guy'. Not even Wolverine or Warpath could hold down Warren who kinda tossed them around like rag dolls... so it seems like Warren's strength as Archangel has been tweaked quite a bit.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Sounds like a good issue. The Archangel transformation gets two twumbs up from me, just as long as Warren still can do the corporate meetings in a power suit thing.

*Holds out another day or two to get his X-23 fix.*

[Leirus]

Glad to hear his feathered wings were never organic to begin with when they returned. That never made a whit of sense to me. Might mean we'll see him able to transform from Angel to Archangel on cue after all. Guess his healing blood came from Apocalypse as well then.

Now .. who else did Angel infect with Apocalypse cells by healing them ..



He has the equivalent strength of a swan! And as silly as that sounds a swan can break your arm with a wingswipe. A mansized swan .. well.

Now THAT make sense. Apocalypse made Warren technorganic revert into a organic-like wings in order to trick everyone into think that the healing powers were also a natural mutation... But they were not, they were the way Poccy had to infect other mutants who will be, surely, heal by Warren... Ohh that would be a good history.

[worstblogever]

And what did Jay Guthrie say? What's that?!? The dumbest student in the history of the school who the Purifiers killed wasn't resurrected by them since he was a mutant they were more than happy to kill?

Wow. I'd be totally shocked, if I didn't already tell some posters that.

Oh, and by the way... somewhere there's a poster who lost a bet to Old No. 7 :biggrin:

[chickrockguitar]

Oo! Can't wait to get this! *sighs* then we gotta wait ages for issue #5 (meaning we gotta have the one shot filler first...)

[Teh m0nk3y]

Oo! Can't wait to get this! *sighs* then we gotta wait ages for issue #5 (meaning we gotta have the one shot filler first...)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
A whole month without Laura or Rahne!:eek:


*Cradles back and forth.*

[fitditz]

Loooooved this issue. That last page is a keeper, hopefully blue Arcangel is as well :biggrin:

[frog]

And what did Jay Guthrie say? What's that?!? The dumbest student in the history of the school who the Purifiers killed wasn't resurrected by them since he was a mutant they were more than happy to kill?

Wow. I'd be totally shocked, if I didn't already tell some posters that.

Oh, and by the way... somewhere there's a poster who lost a bet to Old No. 7 :biggrin:

Poor Guthrie wasn't even mentioned by name. The scientist just says the first pair of wings the Purifiers gave him were normal.

[worstblogever]

Poor Guthrie wasn't even mentioned by name. The scientist just says the first pair of wings the Purifiers gave him were normal.

Leave it to William Stryker... waste not want not.

You gotta admire a villain who's into recycling. Although, paper, some plastics, and glass were all I thought were recylable materials. I had no idea you could reuse parts of dumb*sses.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Poor Guthrie wasn't even mentioned by name. The scientist just says the first pair of wings the Purifiers gave him were normal.

Gotta wonder why they even bothered. As Warren's mauling shows, wings don't make the greatest weapons.

And Wolfsbane remains a whipping girl/pawn. Yay:rolleyes:

[CMBMOOL]

Man, it seems like X-force got their work cut out for them in the next arc and I don't understand this Angel non-healing powers thing ? :confused:

Does this mean that there is a way for Apocolypse to rebuild his army ? :eek:

[fitditz]

I'm hoping that we see the return of Apoc in X-Force in one of the near future arcs. I think the timing is right....

[Old No.7]

Icarus anyone?

I can't freaking wait to read this issue, Yost/Kyle are nothing short of astonishing on this book.

[The Lucky One]

Well, we should definitely wait to see how the full storyline plays out before jumping to conclusions. I'll admit I think restoring Warren's metal wings is a terrible idea, but we don't know that's what's going to happen; for all we know the arc could end with his feathered wings restored, or even the ability to switch back and forth at will. No judgment on my part until the entire story plays out.

I will say that if, if it's simply an excuse to revert back to the metal wings and nothing else, it will seem like a really pointless regression. But we have no way of knowing that's going to be the case.

-D

[Old No.7]

Well, we should definitely wait to see how the full storyline plays out before jumping to conclusions. I'll admit I think restoring Warren's metal wings is a terrible idea, but we don't know that's what's going to happen; for all we know the arc could end with his feathered wings restored, or even the ability to switch back and forth at will. No judgment on my part until the entire story plays out.

I will say that if, if it's simply an excuse to revert back to the metal wings and nothing else, it will seem like a really pointless regression. But we have no way of knowing that's going to be the case.

-D

Yost and Kyle seem to follow continuity pretty well and Warren did get his feather wings back so maybe they'll use that and some nice new comic book science and figure out how to let him transform back and forth.

[CaptainCanada]

I will say that if, if it's simply an excuse to revert back to the metal wings and nothing else, it will seem like a really pointless regression.
I think taking away the metal wings was a pointless regression; and without them, Warren has no offensive capability.

This issue was the best yet; I'm not fully sold on this series, but getting there.

X-23 gets narration here, indeed, she frames the issue; up until now, the writers have been quite consistent in not letting us inside her head, even in her own miniseries. She seems to have regressed a bit in social skill since New X-Men, though that’s perhaps understandable.

The writers continue to do a good job with Wolverine, bringing out his mix of self-loathing and idealism for other people (artist Crain continues to do rather bizarre things with his hairstyle, I must say).

[ExodusCloak]

If he can switch between the two and have a personality disorder upon switching then I'd say we'd get the best of both Angels.

Is Archangel still Blue? The Blueness was just lame and didn't suit the Angel of Death motif.

[Henry T.]

Guess his healing blood came from Apocalypse as well then.

But in X-Men First Class they had Warren heal Quicksilver when his powers were temporarily amped.

[Pro]

But in X-Men First Class they had Warren heal Quicksilver when his powers were temporarily amped.

From what i understand First Class is not necesarilly canon unless material in it is used by writers in the usual titles.

[Old No.7]

From what i understand First Class is not necesarilly canon unless material in it is used by writers in the usual titles.

Exactly. They have the option of bringing up any of the little events in FC since it's still in continuity, but it's not like there is a mandate to do so. I think the only book to do this is New Warriors when they showed a pick of the X-Men in the uni's they wear in FC.

[emmabe]

Oh, and by the way... somewhere there's a poster who lost a bet to Old No. 7 :biggrin:

Yes. I apparently (haven't read the issue yet) lost to Brian M (did he change his user name?) - so I've womaned up and placed him in my sig.

I'm fine with losing the bet... sounds like we have some logical explanations for the Warren weirdness in recent years.

[Old No.7]

Yes. I apparently (haven't read the issue yet) lost to Brian M (did he change his user name?) - so I've womaned up and placed him in my sig.

I'm fine with losing the bet... sounds like we have some logical explanations for the Warren weirdness in recent years.

He did change his user name. Your sig is fine the way it is though.

[Kevin Vetter]

If he can switch between the two and have a personality disorder upon switching then I'd say we'd get the best of both Angels.

Is Archangel still Blue? The Blueness was just lame and didn't suit the Angel of Death motif.

It looked like he was blue again but it was a dark picture and could have just been the shadows but I'd assume the blue skin is comming back with the t/o wings.

[protogarrett]

I wonder what Paige will think of her mans' new look?

[HeckBoy]

This issue sounds awesome, and it's finally alluding to some sort of explanation of how/why Warren got his wings back. I wasn't originally sold on this series, but now I can't wait for the next issue!

[The Lucky One]

I think taking away the metal wings was a pointless regression; and without them, Warren has no offensive capability.

Neither does Nightcrawler, or Kitty Pryde. That's never really been a requirement for being a popular X-Man. :wink:

-D

[Pro]

Neither does Nightcrawler, or Kitty Pryde. That's never really been a requirement for being a popular X-Man.

The main reason Kitty and nightcrawler are not considered offensive is because they choose notto use their powers that way. Kitty can pluck a person's heart out of their body before they can blink. Nightcrawler can grab someone's head and teleport away with it. Both choose not to use their powers in a lethal manner though. If they did they'd be a whole lot more dangerous than Wingman.

[Somebody]

The main reason Kitty and nightcrawler are not considered offensive is because they choose notto use their powers that way. Kitty can pluck a person's heart out of their body before they can blink.

Can she though? I would think that all she could do would be to solidify while mixed with her subject - if she reached in to someone's body and solidified her arm, she'd kill them - and lose her arm!

[Kevin Vetter]

I wouldn't say nightcralwer has no offensive capability. His acrobatics are useful and the teleporting lets him not get completely destroyed by stronger guys by porting and hitting and porting away to safety and he can handle a sword.

Angel without his darts and the sharpness of the metal wings pretty much flies around waiting to bleed on whoever gets injured.

[insidemyhead]

Elixir and poor Jay Guthrie: OK it sounds like I need to start reading X-Force now ...

[Teh m0nk3y]

Elixir and poor Jay Guthrie: OK it sounds like I need to start reading X-Force now ...

Jay Guthrie? The lad is still six feet under.

[Trississ]

Jay Guthrie? The lad is still six feet under.

And that's where he should stay.

[HeckBoy]

Jay Guthrie? The lad is still six feet under.Speaking of dead Guthries, who was the one that died in Endangered Species? The pyro-eyebeam boy?

[Teh m0nk3y]

Speaking of dead Guthries, who was the one that died in Endangered Species? The pyro-eyebeam boy?

I think that one managed to survive. Hank won't be getting any holiday cards from the Guthrie household anytime soon, that's for sure.

And that's where he should stay.
Amen.

[insidemyhead]

Jay Guthrie? The lad is still six feet under.

They mention his wings, if I understood wbe correctly.

Though as someone noted, they don't even mention him by name...

[Imraith Nimphais]

I'm hoping that we see the return of Apoc in X-Force in one of the near future arcs. I think the timing is right....

Oh GODS!!! I hope NOT!...after that rediculous waste of paper/time/money/ink et al "blood of apocalypse" arc...I would just as much rather that poor excuse of a mutant villain go back into hibernation for another eon or two...marvel-time. In all fairness in his earlier days as X-factor's nemesis he was of major import...now...he just one huge mutable bore...I hope the 3C's are reading this...DON"T BRING BACK THAT RELIC!!!!

[worstblogever]

They mention his wings, if I understood wbe correctly.

Though as someone noted, they don't even mention him by name...

All three of them. Had he lived, he would've called himself Jake. He'd swap out monikers whenever he did something stupid and people he knew died. Nasty habit.

[worstblogever]

I think that one managed to survive. Hank won't be getting any holiday cards from the Guthrie household anytime soon, that's for sure.
.

That one from Endangered Species was Jeb. Depowered, last seen in critical condition after Dark Beast poisoned him. Considering Sam mentioned Icarus' death, and not Jeb's in DIvided We Stand #1... it seems a safe bet that Jeb lived.

[The Lucky One]

I wouldn't say nightcralwer has no offensive capability. His acrobatics are useful and the teleporting lets him not get completely destroyed by stronger guys by porting and hitting and porting away to safety and he can handle a sword.

Angel without his darts and the sharpness of the metal wings pretty much flies around waiting to bleed on whoever gets injured.

You're thinking of it in terms of reality, though. As a fictional medium dictated by whatever the writer wants to happen, Nightcrawler will get hit whenever the writer needs him to, teleportation or not; and Angel will fly out of the way of any attack the writer wants him to, realistic or not. Their powers are both based on agility and defensive/transport capabilities, not offensive. Any additional skills they have -- swordfighting, martial arts, whatever -- are based on what the writer wants them to be able to do and will be used, or forgotten about, as the story dictates. Looked at from that context, Warren actually has more pure offensive power than Kurt, as his wings can be used as a bludgeon. (Plus Kurt doesn't carry swords as part of his equipment anymore.)

Mind, I'm not Nightcrawler bashing... he's one of my favorite characters. Kitty too. I'm making the point that beyond their previously established powers, any character is as useful or crap in a fight as the writer wants them to be. And if this story ends with Warren still able to manifest his feathered wings, awesome. I'm just cautioning that the last thing we want is a return to the '90s, where the mentality was that every character needed to have guns, sharp blades, or energy-blasting powers to be considered useful or "kewl." That way lies madness.

-D

[HeckBoy]

That one from Endangered Species was Jeb. Depowered, last seen in critical condition after Dark Beast poisoned him. Considering Sam mentioned Icarus' death, and not Jeb's in DIvided We Stand #1... it seems a safe bet that Jeb lived.Had to look through my collection, but I finally found that chapter (I'm actually kinda surprised I had it since I remember skipping a lot of the X-books until Messiah CompleX drew me back in). Anyway, it's actually Lewis that gets poisoned, and at the end, Beast say's he'll be fine. I also checked the DWS #1 Cannonball story, and Paige even mentions Lewis is playing in the marching band so it looks like the Guthrie's got lucky. That's some pretty good memory by Carey over there.

[streator]

can someone post a scan of warren's transformation?

[Old No.7]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2125/archangelja2.jpg[/URL]

[worstblogever]

Had to look through my collection, but I finally found that chapter (I'm actually kinda surprised I had it since I remember skipping a lot of the X-books until Messiah CompleX drew me back in). Anyway, it's actually Lewis that gets poisoned, and at the end, Beast say's he'll be fine. I also checked the DWS #1 Cannonball story, and Paige even mentions Lewis is playing in the marching band so it looks like the Guthrie's got lucky. That's some pretty good memory by Carey over there.

Seriously...? Then who the hell is Jeb? :confused:

I just found a website that has all of them listed by birthdate, and was ready to head back to mutant tracker until... I noticed it didn't have Melody, Aero.

Guess it's hard to keep track. Everytime you turn around another one falls out of Mama Guthrie's hoo-hoo.

EDIT: Supposedly it's still Jeb... he's the one who had powers and lost them on M-Day outta the group. But for the curious... here's a link to uncannyxmen.net. where they have profiles for every Guthrie, ever.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/article/showquestion.asp?faq=8&fldAuto=79

And even they admit it's a trainwreck to figure out. But they try.

[Leirus]

Seriously...? Then who the hell is Jeb? :confused:

I just found a website that has all of them listed by birthdate, and was ready to head back to mutant tracker until... I noticed it didn't have Melody, Aero.

Guess it's hard to keep track. Everytime you turn around another one falls out of Mama Guthrie's hoo-hoo.

The best place to find all those lost Guthries

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/article/showquestion.asp?faq=8&fldAuto=79

[Teh m0nk3y]

I couldn't wait for my subscription to arrive, so I managed to get a copy some other way...

Sweet Mary Mother of God...

I had read the spoilers, but the art... Jeezus... The art combined with the story blew me away. This issue here... words can't describe how beautiful it is.
That last page... Beautiful. Beautiful indeed.

[dkostus]

He transforms with the costume as part of him?

[Old No.7]

He transforms with the costume as part of him?

He had that on after Apoc transformed him the first time too. Just chalk up to Apoc's tech doing the work.

[worstblogever]

He had that on after Apoc transformed him the first time too. Just chalk up to Apoc's tech doing the work.

Yeah, Celestial technology is some serious hoodoo. Which... can't be a good thing if the Purifiers are finding ways to reverse engineer it.

[Shyft]

You're thinking of it in terms of reality, though. As a fictional medium dictated by whatever the writer wants to happen, Nightcrawler will get hit whenever the writer needs him to, teleportation or not; and Angel will fly out of the way of any attack the writer wants him to, realistic or not. Their powers are both based on agility and defensive/transport capabilities, not offensive. Any additional skills they have -- swordfighting, martial arts, whatever -- are based on what the writer wants them to be able to do and will be used, or forgotten about, as the story dictates. Looked at from that context, Warren actually has more pure offensive power than Kurt, as his wings can be used as a bludgeon. (Plus Kurt doesn't carry swords as part of his equipment anymore.)

Mind, I'm not Nightcrawler bashing... he's one of my favorite characters. Kitty too. I'm making the point that beyond their previously established powers, any character is as useful or crap in a fight as the writer wants them to be. And if this story ends with Warren still able to manifest his feathered wings, awesome. I'm just cautioning that the last thing we want is a return to the '90s, where the mentality was that every character needed to have guns, sharp blades, or energy-blasting powers to be considered useful or "kewl." That way lies madness.

-D

To be fair though, its ALOT easier for Nightcrawler to employ hand to hand combat and weapons than it is for Warren.

[Omega Alpha]

This book is too awesome. FINALLY Warren back as Archangel, fantastic. Can't wait to see how this ends.

[Porcelain]

So glad we got this issue. Been waiting for ages for it to pick up, loved their NXM run and was looking forward to this, but each issues prior, barely remembered what happened 2 secs after reading it because they didn't make me care.

Getting inside X's head, how she sees Wolverine, seeing Wolverine's perspective on what they do, his guilt, how if effects her - everything she takes as an order literaly & tragically. Rahne's return & Angel, Angel might well be someone I care about again - stunning art there. Plus the Choir, fricking amazing.


edit: One thing that is pissin me off still though is Rahne still being as she was, despite being touted as an Anubis look-a-like before the season even began (and on the cover again) and apparently facing likely-death scenarios - yet we know she's going to live because she has to be transformed. Likely she's going to get some of Angel's stuff to transform her outside into a harder shell, but still would have been nice to have it revealed in comic more like Angel, instead of such a long tout.

[Teh m0nk3y]

So glad we got this issue. Been waiting for ages for it to pick up, loved their NXM run and was looking forward to this, but each issues prior, barely remembered what happened 2 secs after reading it because they didn't make me care.

Getting inside X's head, how she sees Wolverine, seeing Wolverine's perspective on what they do, his guilt, how if effects her - everything she takes as an order literaly & tragically. Rahne's return & Angel, Angel might well be someone I care about again - stunning art there. Plus the Choir, fricking amazing.

The Choir sent a chill down my back.

[Joe Franklin]

:cool:

Finally Warren is interesting again. No more boring, fly around doing nothing Warren.

[Diablito]

Wow. That's all I can say. Best X-Book out, no competition, IMO.

[Porcelain]

The Choir sent a chill down my back.
Ditto, great visual and build up at that (starting with just Gabriel).

[Mr.EZ]

I thought the doctor that Laura saw as a mother was named Sarah Kinney?

If Apoc's transformative tech is still in the bodies of his victims, I'd hope that X-Force will go and save Chamber from the crapfest that is New Warriors. i think he'd fit in well with this grouping.

And is Elixer part of the team now, or just a temporary medic?

[CyberHubbs]

I admit that I, at first, went into X-Force with reservations about the art. But it's grown on me!

The Choir looks cool, and it's great to see Archangel back. He wouldn't have worked in the books beforehand, but X-Force is more the character's speed.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Ditto, great visual and build up at that (starting with just Gabriel).
First time I ever made a literal squeak sound of delight while reading a comic book.

I thought the doctor that Laura saw as a mother was named Sarah Kinney?
You're right on the Kinney part.Looks like an error by the letterer.
Kyle and Yost would know better, considering they're the ones that created her.

If Apoc's transformative tech is still in the bodies of his victims, I'd hope that X-Force will go and save Chamber from the crapfest that is New Warriors. i think he'd fit in well with this grouping.That would be a blessing.

And is Elixer part of the team now, or just a temporary medic?Looks like a temporary medic for the moment.

[Mr.EZ]

Damn shame, cause having Elixir around would make a lot of sense for them, besides the point of having an outsider know about the super secret team.

Chamber would fit in so well. Not Decibel though, but Chamber.

A permanent lineup of Wolverine, Wolfsbane, Elixir, Warpath, X-23, Chamber and Archangel would make me very, very happy.

[podmark]

Read this yesterday (comics were out yesterday in Canada) and it was quite simply awesome. Almost frightening in a way, Crain's art was prefect. The Purifiers once again add another piece to their army, the only way I can see X-Force winning is if Bastion and Risman come to blows, but personally I'm hoping that doesn't happen and that Yost and Kyle create the next big enemy for the X-Verse.
Angel's transformation is awesome.
Also yay Elixir!

But Elixir isn't gold in the issue :(

[Porcelain]

I actually thought the way Elixir was coloured was really effective, just the 'healing' hands glowing gold (though if he was used as an ongoing character the gold skin is a nice thing to work with from a characterisation point of view).

[mikekerr3]

I actually thought the way Elixir was coloured was really effective, just the 'healing' hands glowing gold (though if he was used as an ongoing character the gold skin is a nice thing to work with from a characterisation point of view).

Love the story, the art was great, and I usually ignore the art quality, The story was moving.

But Am I alone in thinking that Logan was a complete ass in his conversation with X-23?

[Slyfer]

I said it before and I will say it again, the best X-BOOK AROUND!!

I love X-Force, that was totally wicked, I read this book so fast I kept doubling back to make sure I wasn't reading it that fast. Holy Hell man. This book is like ooze Goodness. Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet mary bloody archangel of death, this was totally awesome! NUFF SAID!!

[CyberHubbs]

Love the story, the art was great, and I usually ignore the art quality, The story was moving.

But Am I alone in thinking that Logan was a complete ass in his conversation with X-23?

She did deserve it. Logan knows what she is, fully realizes the sort of problem she can be to the mission. Yet despite that, he does understand the linear mission-first mentality that she brings to the table. She will get the job done.

But that's all there is. She doesn't do it out of regard for Rahne's safety, or that of the others. Merely because Scott told her to go out, kick ass and chew bubblegum. To which she replied, "...What is bubblegum?"

He wants her to "get it", and it's frustrating that she doesn't and might never.

[Trississ]

Man, you gotta kind of hate Wolverine for the speal he gave Laura. That was really harsh. Next issue, Laura kicks wolvie in the nuts!!! Okay, probably not going to happen, but I can dream.

Going off the solicts for the next few issues, it seems Rahne is going to return to her right mind. I wonder how they will play up her reaction to being brainwashed. Laura can relate (or she can relate to Laura at least) on that count, but will her guilt overwhelm her? Or is what daddy and the Purifiers did be enough to shatter her beliefs? I can see Wolverine and Warpath forgiving Rahne for her actions. I can see Elixer forgiving. Warren maybe, depending on the outcome, but I can see a trust issue arising between Laura and Rahne after this. Between Laura and Wolverine too. Poor girl can't win for losing.

[Porcelain]

Love the story, the art was great, and I usually ignore the art quality, The story was moving.

But Am I alone in thinking that Logan was a complete ass in his conversation with X-23?
It's intrinsic to who he is, the self-despise for being what he is and X is even more a killer than him - she hasn't really broken her conditioning yet. The way he justifies it, is that he does to to protect the innocent like Rahne, X doesn't see that, she just (as Cyberhubbs pointed out) follows orders - something he loathes as it's what he's always fought against (being controlled by others).

Great character work for both of them. What Logan doesn't see is that X is more like him than he thinks (even more like Rahne than he thinks - naive in a way) on a subconscious level - hence the cutting herself afterwards, she doesn't understand but feels she has to be punished because she did something bad.

[CyberHubbs]

It's intrinsic to who he is, the self-despise for being what he is and X is even more a killer than him - she hasn't really broken her conditioning yet. The way he justifies it, is that he does to to protect the innocent like Rahne, X doesn't see that, she just (as Cyberhubbs pointed out) follows orders - something he loathes as it's what he's always fought against (being controlled by others).

Great character work for both of them. What Logan doesn't see is that X is more like him than he thinks (even more like Rahne than he thinks - naive in a way) on a subconscious level - hence the cutting herself afterwards, she doesn't understand but feels she has to be punished because she did something bad.

Laura is totally a Linkin Park fan.

[rwsmith]

This book never disappoints. Better than that, actually, it constantly amazes me with the twists and turns that you never see coming! Now I'm just wondering what Chris and Kyle are going to throw at us next. I noticed in the Marvel Previews that the name of whomever Warpath fights in issue #6 is blacked out. Any thoughts as to who this mystery character will turn out to be?

Hepzibah? Domino? Cable?

[drwho]

Angel should be uber powerful because of what apocalypse did. I just dont understand how just because you inject someone with angel wing juice that that person should also grow wings. Kind of wack if you ask me. Just hope we don't get back to only the blood thirsty archangel version. I really like the idea where during battle angel could turn his wings metal, or something like that.

[Joe Franklin]

I just dont understand how just because you inject someone with angel wing juice that that person should also grow wings.

This one is easy. It's a goofy comic book story.:wink:

[CyberHubbs]

Angel should be uber powerful because of what apocalypse did. I just dont understand how just because you inject someone with angel wing juice that that person should also grow wings. Kind of wack if you ask me. Just hope we don't get back to only the blood thirsty archangel version. I really like the idea where during battle angel could turn his wings metal, or something like that.

It wasn't so much the blood as it was Apocalypse's technology that was still imprinted in Warren's cellular make-up.

[Trississ]

She did deserve it. Logan knows what she is, fully realizes the sort of problem she can be to the mission. Yet despite that, he does understand the linear mission-first mentality that she brings to the table. She will get the job done.

But that's all there is. She doesn't do it out of regard for Rahne's safety, or that of the others. Merely because Scott told her to go out, kick ass and chew bubblegum. To which she replied, "...What is bubblegum?"

He wants her to "get it", and it's frustrating that she doesn't and might never.

Seriously, that's a pretty twisted point of view. I would agree that having Laura as a team mate would be potentially problematic. But to tell a person that someone else's life is, hands down, more valuable than theirs? That's kind of insane.

[Dagger]

I think taking away the metal wings was a pointless regression; and without them, Warren has no offensive capability.
Not every mutant power needs to be an offensive, oh so sparkly power-set. This team of 'Wolverine's' isn't all that interesting to me, but I'm picking it up, because I have faith in what Yost and Kyle can do with a series.

[Joe Franklin]

Not every mutant power needs to be an offensive, oh so sparkly power-set.

For me they do. But violent a-hole comic book characters are my fafvorite kind. I wish X-Force was a Marvel MAX title.:cool:

[Porcelain]

For me they do. But violent a-hole comic book characters are my fafvorite kind. I wish X-Force was a Marvel MAX title.:cool:
Does it need to be? I mean seriously, what more could we get? (er except blatant full on sex)

[CyberHubbs]

Seriously, that's a pretty twisted point of view. I would agree that having Laura as a team mate would be potentially problematic. But to tell a person that someone else's life is, hands down, more valuable than theirs? That's kind of insane.

Wolverine knows and understands that he is not a good person. He might have 'good' moments, but these always take a back-seat to him doing what he does best. He is the kind of person willing to forsake his humanity so that others don't have to. Someone like Rahne, for example.

In some ways, of course, this might make him a better person because he is making a true and honest sacrifice. But in the end he is a tool, a hammer. He goes into a fight with a reason. Laura doesn't.

[Dagger]

For me they do. But violent a-hole comic book characters are my fafvorite kind. I wish X-Force was a Marvel MAX title.:cool:
That's fine, but if they're reverting him back to 90's Warren, then count me out. Winged Warren has always been one of my favorite characters, and I'm srsly miffed if this is what they're going to do to him.

[lockerogue]

Seriously, that's a pretty twisted point of view. I would agree that having Laura as a team mate would be potentially problematic. But to tell a person that someone else's life is, hands down, more valuable than theirs? That's kind of insane.

Not really because both X-23 and Wolverine are both expendable. They can heal from being shot point blank in the face. Where as Wolfsbane and Warpath cannot. So yes Warpath's and Wolfsbane lives are more valuable than X-23 and Wolverine.

[HeckBoy]

Just read the issue, and it was awesome. Looks like the Purifiers have unlocked the secrets of (or are at least able to utilize) Apocalypse's gene tech. I've always been on the fence when it came to Warren going back into metal mode. My first introduction to the character was on the 90s TAS as metal-wing Archangel and he immediately became a favorite as a result. However, the first comic book in my collection was the very issue where Warren got his feathers back, so both leave a pretty big impression on me. I just hope that Warren doesn't go all mopey and angsty again (one of the things I hated about his metal-wing stage), at least not for long. And while I'm still hoping, what I really want is Warren to be able to switch back and forth b/w metal/blue and feathers/pink. Now that would be great.

Also, I'm wondering if he really has talon-fingers, or if that's just artistic license on Crain's part. IIRC the #5 cover shows him w/ regular, metal-tipped fingers, so maybe the talons are retractable? (lord knows it would suck trying to grip things only to poke holes thru it all the time) Or maybe he's just able to manipulate all that metal on his new-retro Death costume? Either way I'm stoked.

[Trississ]

It's intrinsic to who he is, the self-despise for being what he is and X is even more a killer than him - she hasn't really broken her conditioning yet. The way he justifies it, is that he does to to protect the innocent like Rahne, X doesn't see that, she just (as Cyberhubbs pointed out) follows orders - something he loathes as it's what he's always fought against (being controlled by others).

Great character work for both of them. What Logan doesn't see is that X is more like him than he thinks (even more like Rahne than he thinks - naive in a way) on a subconscious level - hence the cutting herself afterwards, she doesn't understand but feels she has to be punished because she did something bad.

I would agree that's the face value, but think back 4 issues ago when Wolverine decked Cyclops for enlisting her in the first place. He gave a self-righteous speal about how he brought her to Xavier's to learn how to be human and how Laura doesn't know how to make choices. I'd say Wolverine's comments about the value of her life could have a pretty dramatic affect on Laura's potential humanity. And that's a great way for Laura to learn to make choices. Tell her what to choose. Sure, Wolverine hates the idea of taking orders and probably hates that aspect of Laura. But he is the leader, designated and agreed to, so he needs to suck it up and act responsibly.
I remain of the opinion that he's comments were just an angry tirade, with no justification at all.

[Joe Franklin]

Does it need to be? I mean seriously, what more could we get? (er except blatant full on sex)

Graphic language and strong sexual content. NC-17.

[creaky]

Also, I'm wondering if he really has talon-fingers, or if that's just artistic license on Crain's part. IIRC the #5 cover shows him w/ regular, metal-tipped fingers, so maybe the talons are retractable? (lord knows it would suck trying to grip things only to poke holes thru it all the time) Or maybe he's just able to manipulate all that metal on his new-retro Death costume? Either way I'm stoked.

The real tragedy is that he will never be able to play the piano again.:frown:

[claimtosubclaim]

Graphic language and strong sexual content. NC-17.

Why not just get that in real life instead?

And who in this book is gonna have sex anyway? The only members without a drastic age gap are Rahne and Warpath, and Rahne's not going to be screwing him anytime soon.

I would like to add that after seeing Crain's Angel and Cyclops, I want to see him draw Iceman and Beast. Now that would be awesome.

[Joe Franklin]

Why not just get that in real life instead?

And who in this book is gonna have sex anyway?

Wolverine and the random bar slut. James and the random club slut.

[claimtosubclaim]

Wolverine and the random bar slut. James and the random club slut.

Because James is the kind of guy who goes clubbing.

[Trississ]

Not really because both X-23 and Wolverine are both expendable. They can heal from being shot point blank in the face. Where as Wolfsbane and Warpath cannot. So yes Warpath's and Wolfsbane lives are more valuable than X-23 and Wolverine.

X-23 and Wolverine's lives are less valuable because they have a significant healing factor? Yes, they can get shot in the face and survive. But death is death. To my knowledge, neither can heal from that.

[Joe Franklin]

Because James is the kind of guy who goes clubbing.

He used to go clubbing in the Adam Pollina drawn X-Force days.

[Toboe]

Wht an amazing issue. Kyle and Yost keep showing that they're at the top of their game with this book, and Crain's art makes for a fantastic visual which suits the tone of the book perfectly.

The insight on X-23's thoughts and how Wolverine's words affected her insight was great. Every character is masterfully handled.

The Purifiers are sure becoming one huge menace to mutants. Their plan just keeps getting better and better. The Choir look like it's gonna be quite interesting, and their effect on Archangel was great.

[Mr.EZ]

He used to go clubbing in the Adam Pollina drawn X-Force days.

Yeah, he wore bright yellow chaps too. :shudders:

[claimtosubclaim]

He used to go clubbing in the Adam Pollina drawn X-Force days.

And now he's dating a cat/skunk from space. Times change. Man, you really want the comic book sex badly.

[Joe Franklin]

And now he's dating a cat/skunk from space. Times change. Man, you really want the comic book sex badly.

You really think that Wolverine is the type of character to be wearing a chastity belt? He's a bar room redneck.

[claimtosubclaim]

You really think that Wolverine is the type of character to be wearing a chastity belt? He's a bar room redneck.


And I quote myself:
Man, you really want the comic book sex badly.

:tongue:

[sneggz]

holy crap! the choir looks kick ass! wolvie shouldn't be taking out his self loathing on laura but she did say something stupid again. that kid has no tact. damnit, now i gotta wait another month for archangel vs the choir:mad:

[Grunty]

So it was really Warren who became Archangel (again). Well the only reason i gave the Icarus theory a chance was because Warren was to obvious (it seems i have to start thinking straighter, i'm expecting to much it seems).

Wolfsbanes action were also kind of obvious. I mean first we see her in an A Clockwork Orange like situation with those "eye open keepers" in front of a monitor with some bastard talking about her redemption and than they simply find her in a warhouse (common on, purifiers never kill someone without trying to burn the corps).

Also in the James Bond movie, Never say Never Again, Bond gets scolded after he "died" in a training mission because the hostage, he was suppose to save had been one for 7 month, which as M pointed out, makes it highly likely the girl got brainwashed in the meantime.

Hmm does Warren now fits "devastatingly brutal" or "off-the-radar-unexpected" (two of the three kind of recruits we were supposed to expect), i mean for some Angel is unexpected as member, but he wasn't off the radar for recent times.

[claimtosubclaim]

Hmm does Warren now fits "devastatingly brutal" or "off-the-radar-unexpected" (two of the three kind of recruits we were supposed to expect), i mean for some Angel is unexpected as member, but he wasn't off the radar for recent times.

Probably devastatingly brutal, but by off the radar I don't think they meant not appearing in the book. His appearance in issue 2 just seemed like a guest spot. Of course, when he was still around in issue 3, we all knew what was gonna happen.

[fitditz]

So it was really Warren who became Archangel (again). Well the only reason i gave the Icarus theory a chance was because Warren was to obvious (it seems i have to start thinking straighter, i'm expecting to much it seems).

Wolfsbanes action were also kind of obvious. I mean first we see her in an A Clockwork Orange like situation with those "eye open keepers" in front of a monitor with some bastard talking about her redemption and than they simply find her in a warhouse (common on, purifiers never kill someone without trying to burn the corps).

Also in the James Bond movie, Never say Never Again, Bond gets scolded after he "died" in a training mission because the hostage, he was suppose to save had been one for 7 month, which as M pointed out, makes it highly likely the girl got brainwashed in the meantime.

Hmm does Warren now fits "devastatingly brutal" or "off-the-radar-unexpected" (two of the three kind of recruits we were supposed to expect), i mean for some Angel is unexpected as member, but he wasn't off the radar for recent times.
"devastatingly brutal" IMO

[mikekerr3]

She did deserve it. Logan knows what she is, fully realizes the sort of problem she can be to the mission. Yet despite that, he does understand the linear mission-first mentality that she brings to the table. She will get the job done.

But that's all there is. She doesn't do it out of regard for Rahne's safety, or that of the others. Merely because Scott told her to go out, kick ass and chew bubblegum. To which she replied, "...What is bubblegum?"

He wants her to "get it", and it's frustrating that she doesn't and might never.

What make her less valuable than Rahne? Why did she deserve it I don't see it.

[CyberHubbs]

What make her less valuable than Rahne? Why did she deserve it I don't see it.

Because they're cold-blooded killers.

I think Logan wanted more for Laura, but she's proven -- in his eyes, at least -- that she can't become something beyond a weapon. Logan sees Rahne as the complete opposite of Laura, someone that doesn't need redemption because she's already where she needs to be with her humanity.

What they do, they do so that Rahne doesn't have to.

During Ultimate Wars, there is this great part where Kitty and someone else is about to get wasted by these soldiers because of Magneto killing a bunch of people on a bridge. Logan crashes in and tackles the soldiers, starts slashing them up. The entire time screaming at...Jean, was it? To cover Kitty's eyes so she didn't see what he had to do.

I know it's an alternate universe, but I like to think of it as a good example.

[RoguishGurl]

I just read it. This is my favorite book out right now. It's wonderful. Completely wonderful. I enjoyed getting to see what it was like in X-23's head. I just loved when she went to attack Rahne, but stopped. Kyle and Yost are awesome!

[Toboe]

Because they're cold-blooded killers.

I think Logan wanted more for Laura, but she's proven -- in his eyes, at least -- that she can't become something beyond a weapon. Logan sees Rahne as the complete opposite of Laura, someone that doesn't need redemption because she's already where she needs to be with her humanity.

What they do, they do so that Rahne doesn't have to.

During Ultimate Wars, there is this great part where Kitty and someone else is about to get wasted by these soldiers because of Magneto killing a bunch of people on a bridge. Logan crashes in and tackles the soldiers, starts slashing them up. The entire time screaming at...Jean, was it? To cover Kitty's eyes so she didn't see what he had to do.

I know it's an alternate universe, but I like to think of it as a good example.

And then Captain America remarks how Wolverine has just about the most screwed up sense of morality he's ever encountered. :tongue:

[CyberHubbs]

And then Captain America remarks how Wolverine has just about the most screwed up sense of morality he's ever encountered. :tongue:

Yup! I love that scene. Need to go out and find it again.

[mikekerr3]

Because they're cold-blooded killers.

I think Logan wanted more for Laura, but she's proven -- in his eyes, at least -- that she can't become something beyond a weapon. Logan sees Rahne as the
complete opposite of Laura, someone that doesn't need redemption because she's already where she needs to be with her humanity.

What they do, they do so that Rahne doesn't have to.

Thats Rahne's and Laura's choice not Logan's Laura is not beyond redemption. Logan didn't think so just 4 issues back.

Logan hates himself and extends that to Laura, that's just being an ass.



During Ultimate Wars, there is this great part where Kitty and someone else is about to get wasted by these soldiers because of Magneto killing a bunch of people on a bridge. Logan crashes in and tackles the soldiers, starts slashing them up. The entire time screaming at...Jean, was it? To cover Kitty's eyes so she didn't see what he had to do.

I know it's an alternate universe, but I like to think of it as a good example.

That's just beinga nutty ass.:biggrin:

[timbox]

The glory of X-Force continues! Every single issues is even better than the last. I keep thinking that eventually there's going to be a leveling off of the awesomeness, but so far that hasn't happened. Best book out right now!

[RoguishGurl]

Thats Rahne's and Laura's choice not Logan's Laura is not beyond redemption. Logan didn't think so just 4 issues back.

Logan hates himself and extends that to Laura, that's just being an ass.

I would just love to have a scene where Laura and Logan have a heart to heart. Maybe after this arc.

The glory of X-Force continues! Every single issues is even better than the last. I keep thinking that eventually there's going to be a leveling off of the awesomeness, but so far that hasn't happened. Best book out right now!
Agreed!

[xmanfan527]

awsome issue

[Alphaxman]

I just read the issue and even thou I was stupid enough to read the spoiler last week, seeing and reading for myself made all the difference. It was off the meters. I felt for X and I can’t image what she is going though. She was raised to be the perfect killer without emotion and now she is trying her hardest to change. I know Logan was angry and frustrated but he should know better then that. Her psyche is already fractured and she doesn’t need someone telling her life is not worth as much as someone else. I think the point that she is trying to be a better person proves she worth it.

Rahne was just plan scary this issue. That’s all I have to say about her.

Jamie was a non-entity this time around but this issue was more to do about X and Warren.

Now I know that Warren is probably one of the most divisive X-Men because some like Angel (feather wings) and others like Archangel (metal wings). Count me as one who loves Archangel. Angel is all fine and good but it’s funny that he could never stay around when he had his feathers. It’s like most writers didn’t know what to do with him in a fight. Archangel on the other hand was just as viscous as Logan and I loved that. But I did get tired of his downer personality. I hope he will get over the anger of his metal wings quickly. Better yet I wish he could go from one set of wing to the next at will including the healing light wings.

Story 9.5
Art 9.5

[thebhamgunslinger]

Great issue. Any idea when Legacy of Vengeance will ship?

[rwsmith]

Hmm does Warren now fits "devastatingly brutal" or "off-the-radar-unexpected" (two of the three kind of recruits we were supposed to expect), i mean for some Angel is unexpected as member, but he wasn't off the radar for recent times.

He could probably fit either, but at this point I'd put him as "off the radar unexpected" and maybe Rahne as "devastatingly brutal." For all we know she could've been one of the characters Craig and Chris were talking about when they mentioned these three new additions because at that point she wasn't formally on the team.

That leaves "sexy as hell," and I put my money on Domino for that one.

Now, if Rahne is exempt because she was considered as being already on the team by C&C when they made that statement, then I'd put Warren as the "devastatingly brutal" one because something tells me he's going to go medieval on the Choir's asses!

Of course, that would still leave someone who is "off the radar unexpected" yet to show up...hmm... :confused:

[Toboe]

Of course, that would still leave someone who is "off the radar unexpected" yet to show up...hmm... :confused:

Maybe that was Elixir?

[RoguishGurl]

Great issue. Any idea when Legacy of Vengeance will ship?
It shipped out today. I got it today. I couldn't help myself. :redface:

Maybe that was Elixir?
Gosh, I hope so.

[DeadXMan]

Neither does Nightcrawler, or Kitty Pryde. That's never really been a requirement for being a popular X-Man. :wink:

-D

"porting someone's head two miles up seems like a good offensive weapon
to me.

Thank Kirby, Warren is back to his bad ass ways.
the molting was lame

Though Apoc said it was all part of his plan now if his healing blood was Apoc's doing. And we know They used Apoc's blood to heal Chamber in NEX. Maybe Angel's blood can only heal members of Apocalypse's Clan. and they are now Sleeper horsemen (Jublee as War, you know you want it)

[Monty_Cristo]

now that he's blue again, Warren needs to style his hair more emo.

[DeadXMan]

he's blue cause of the cold burning fire of revenge has been sparked anew within his soul.

REJOICE!!! The Archangel of Death has return.
And Hell is coming with him.

[creaky]

now that he's blue again, Warren needs to style his hair more emo.

I think he needs a mohawk.

[greenshoes713]

I think he needs a mohawk.

that would be FAIL

I like his hair the way it is

[Hakael]

Best book of the week, C&C have really outdone themselves.

Good to see Harkin again, I like evil scientists. Wonder why Kimura hasn't caught up with him yet (will we see anything of this plot line?)

Big question... Have C&C been planning the Choir since their first arc on NXM? Or was it something that came later and they decided to tie that aspect in? I always thought Stryker removing Jay's wings was a bit odd if they were just using him for info... now we know he handed them over to the Facility for study.

Good issue for Laura, this book just keeps getting better. Elixir's gotta learn to stop healing his ex, all she ever does is maim him afterwards.

[Bingo!]

I'm going to say it and I won't regret it.

X-Force is the best title Marvel is shipping right now.

The stories are nicely self contained, every character is depicted perfectly, the art is stunning, and each issue has had a surprising ending. I hope Yost remains on this title for awhile!

[RoguishGurl]

I'm going to say it and I won't regret it.

X-Force is the best title Marvel is shipping right now.

The stories are nicely self contained, every character is depicted perfectly, the art is stunning, and each issue has had a surprising ending. I hope Yost remains on this title for awhile!

Don't forget Mr. Kyle!

[Toboe]

Good to see Harkin again, I like evil scientists. Wonder why Kimura hasn't caught up with him yet (will we see anything of this plot line?)

Big question... Have C&C been planning the Choir since their first arc on NXM? Or was it something that came later and they decided to tie that aspect in? I always thought Stryker removing Jay's wings was a bit odd if they were just using him for info... now we know he handed them over to the Facility for study.

Good issue for Laura, this book just keeps getting better. Elixir's gotta learn to stop healing his ex, all she ever does is maim him afterwards.

I had totally forgotten about Kimura. It would be neat to see her again on this title, now that the Facility has been brought up.

I love how everything flows so well with their work on New X-Men. At the moment, Stryker taking Icaru's wings was all wtf, but now it all makes sense.

[HeckBoy]

I think he needs a mohawk.Didn't the future-Warren have metal wings, pink skin, and a mohawk in that Weapon-X Days of Future Present mini? Or at least I think it was Weapon X, don't remember

[Hakael]

I had totally forgotten about Kimura. It would be neat to see her again on this title, now that the Facility has been brought up.

I love how everything flows so well with their work on New X-Men. At the moment, Stryker taking Icaru's wings was all wtf, but now it all makes sense.

I figure she's gotta show up somewhere now that Emma's given her a bit of "reprogramming".

Personally, I'm loving the inner politics of the baddies. Its obvious that Risman is trying to keep the dealings with the choir separate from whats going on with Bastion and the technovirus infected. I wonder how much of the infected (Stryker, Creed, etc) are still there. Risman was a little more than apprehensive with the idea of turning the Purifiers over to Stryker's corpse. If Bastion doesn't know of the Choir, could it mean the people he brought back with the tech virus can withhold info from him?

[La Fea]

I want to see this 'Fade' character RoguishGirl mentioned from X-23's series (and not just because he knows how to pick a name!).

He should date Vague and they should have invisible babies like OMG right now.

[Kalen O.]

I want to see this 'Fade' character RoguishGirl mentioned from X-23's series (and not just because he knows how to pick a name!).

He should date Vague and they should have invisible babies like OMG right now.

But invisible babies aren't safe! What if someone stepped on them?

[La Fea]

But invisible babies aren't safe! What if someone stepped on them?

I've stepped on all my babies and they're doing just fine!

[Cayman]

But invisible babies aren't safe! What if someone stepped on them?

Good point. No-one would be able to see them to remove their corpses and after awhile they would start to smell.

[RoguishGurl]

I want to see this 'Fade' character RoguishGirl mentioned from X-23's series (and not just because he knows how to pick a name!).

He should date Vague and they should have invisible babies like OMG right now.

Sadly, Fade is dead. My girl killed him.

[La Fea]

Sadly, Fade is dead. My girl killed him.

WHAT?????

ComicVine did not inform me of this before I decided to devote my heart to him!

I demand he be resurrected!!!

[lockerogue]

X-23 and Wolverine's lives are less valuable because they have a significant healing factor? Yes, they can get shot in the face and survive. But death is death. To my knowledge, neither can heal from that.

Indeed they can. Wolverine was burned to nothing but a bones and still regenerated his body back.

[timbox]

Fade paid the ultimate price for messing with X-23. He got what he deserved.

[La Fea]

Fade paid the ultimate price for messing with X-23. He got what he deserved.

What did he do???
Explain me the wholeness of the man named Fade.

ComicVine's bio is really vague and Wikipedia has neglected this awesome man of power and dignity.

[timbox]

What did he do???
Explain me the wholeness of the man named Fade.

ComicVine's bio is really vague and Wikipedia has neglected this awesome man of power and dignity.

How could someone such as yourself with obviously wonderful taste in the realm of comicdom not have read Target X?

Love the avatar!

[La Fea]

How could someone such as yourself with obviously wonderful taste in the realm of comicdom not have read Target X?

Love the avatar!

LOL! I did not even have an inkling of interest in X-23 until almost literally the first time I read X-Force! I want to go back and read it but I don't do the TPB thing (only digests for my cheap as).

And thanks sexay! YOU TOO!

[timbox]

You can't go wrong with the Target X TPB and the NYX hardcover that includes Innocence Lost.

Splurge! Live a little! Steal them from Barnes and Noble!

[lockerogue]

LOL! I did not even have an inkling of interest in X-23 until almost literally the first time I read X-Force! I want to go back and read it but I don't do the TPB thing (only digests for my cheap as).

And thanks sexay! YOU TOO!

Is that phat ass Karma as your avatar?

[streator]

the silver on warren looks cool, better than the pink for sure.

[Flâneur]

I'm actually enjoying this, woah.

[psycwave]

Archangel's BACK!! YAY!! Now if only Thenody would come out of hiding and join X Force.....

[just another user]

Before I read this I thought reverting Angel back to blue was a bit lame.

I was wrong, this book is perfect! Best X Book out there at the moment.

and I LOVE the full page of Rahne looking like a badass werewolf.

[HeckBoy]

edit: One thing that is pissin me off still though is Rahne still being as she was, despite being touted as an Anubis look-a-like before the season even began (and on the cover again) and apparently facing likely-death scenarios - yet we know she's going to live because she has to be transformed. Likely she's going to get some of Angel's stuff to transform her outside into a harder shell, but still would have been nice to have it revealed in comic more like Angel, instead of such a long tout.I thought her Anubis look was just the result of her mask not coming off when she changed forms? I seem to recall seeing some concept art where Rahne wore a full face mask in human form for that purpose.

|EDIT| Yeah, here's the pic of her wearing a full face mask (at least that's probably what it is):
http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/cons/baltimore2007/marvel/XForceConcept1.jpg

[fitditz]

I can't wait to see a full team pic once the entire team has been assembled.

Wolverine
X-23
Warpath
Wolfsbane
Arcangel
Domino (likelihood)
?

Looks like a pretty bad ass team to me :cool:

[DeadXMan]

I can't wait to see a full team pic once the entire team has been assembled.

Wolverine
X-23
Warpath
Wolfsbane
Arcangel
Domino (likelihood)
?

Looks like a pretty bad ass team to me :cool:

Give me Hellion or Mercury

[timbox]

I think the cat will be out of the bag about this little Get-Along Gang if Elixir isn't given a membership card.

[thebhamgunslinger]

It shipped out today. I got it today. I couldn't help myself.

My LCS said it didn't ship yet. But if you got it yesterday, then maybe they just haven't received it yet. I'm picking up this title starting with number 4, and really want to see how it started. So I need Legacy of Vengeance to collect the first three issues.


Never mind, I found it today.

[DeadXMan]

They could kill him
I'm sure a severd head can't be regenerated

[psycwave]

I can't wait to see a full team pic once the entire team has been assembled.

Wolverine
X-23
Warpath
Wolfsbane
Arcangel
Domino (likelihood)
?

Looks like a pretty bad ass team to me :cool:

o yea I forgot about Dom(have no idea how) but yea okay my frst choice is Domino then Threnody. heh. What if jesse bedlam joined the team. think about he comes back more in control(I mean he could affect the neural chemiisrty of someones brain, if that aint tailor-made for killin...) of his powers and hardcore after being killed y the Church of humanity. I mean he was with that MUSE thingy and supposedly had all that special ops training and access to a lot of secret files. Plus he was supposed to be a martial arts master after x force went to Genosha and met that delphi chick. Yea i can totally see it.

[rwsmith]

I can't wait to see a full team pic once the entire team has been assembled.

Wolverine
X-23
Warpath
Wolfsbane
Arcangel
Domino (likelihood)
?

Looks like a pretty bad ass team to me :cool:

Agreed. I think it's fine with just those six, actually. If there is a 7th coming, I'm betting on someone like Hepzibah (she's Warpath's girlfriend, after all) or perhaps even a long-shot like Cable. I can't really see any of the other New X-men kids being an active member of this team, but maybe someone like Elixir in a support capacity.

[AcesX1X]

I'm wondering what everyone thinks of Elixir staying in X-Force? Not necessarily part of the team, but for support.

[fitditz]

I'm wondering what everyone thinks of Elixir staying in X-Force? Not necessarily part of the team, but for support.
I think Elixir would be a good member for the team even though he really isn't an offensive threat like the rest of the team.
I'd love it if we had Hellion on the team. I think that this team is full of loose cannons/hot wires and he would definitely fit into the equation quite well.

[Teh m0nk3y]

I think Elixir would be a good member for the team even though he really isn't an offensive threat like the rest of the team.

As a Omega-level mutant, capable of controlling the biological structure of any organic matter... Elixir would do just fine in any position within X-Force.
He can function as a medic on or off the field. His mere touch is a biological weapon, so he should be able to take care of himself.

I'd love it if we had Hellion on the team. I think that this team is full of loose cannons/hot wires and he would definitely fit into the equation quite well.
It be interesting to have him on the squad. Would humanize Laura.

[Hakael]

As a Omega-level mutant, capable of controlling the biological structure of any organic matter... Elixir would do just fine in any position within X-Force.
He can function as a medic on or off the field. His mere touch is a biological weapon, so he should be able to take care of himself.

It be interesting to have him on the squad. Would humanize Laura.

still crossing my fingers for Hellion myself, either a telekinetic or somebody with biological powers like Josh would be an amazing addition to the cast. Elixir could become the embodiment of death on a battlefield if he wanted to, and we really haven't seen a telekinetic go all out in a fight in a very long time.

[thebhamgunslinger]

Please forgive me about a potentially dumb question, but I'm new to X-Force. How do you pronounce Rahne?

[AcesX1X]

Rahne.....like Rain.

It's raining today! Isn't it lovely? Rahne, what do you think of the rain?

[Brett P]

I don't expect every comic to be perfect every time but the misspelling of Lauras mothers name and Josh being incorrectly colored are pretty big mistakes and definately tainted the overall issue for me. Fortunately the issue was good enough to let it pass...aslong as Josh is gold next issue...

I totally approve of Archangel coming back, I always thought he was cool.

I do find it a little odd that the Purifiers who hate the mutie genetic freaks are so willing to turn themselves into inhuman alien infested creatures...but it's shaping up to be a pretty cool saga.

Now .. who else did Angel infect with Apocalypse cells by healing them ..

This could open up a lot of cool opportunities!

Ooh Jubilee! And as luck would have it, best friend and fellow New Warrior Jono is also Apocalypsified these days...saviour from New Warriors for the dynmaic duo?! Oh and Paige was healed too! Generation Apocalypse anyone?!

I can't remember anyone else aside from Magma...

[fitditz]

I don't expect every comic to be perfect every time but the misspelling of Lauras mothers name and Josh being incorrectly colored are pretty big mistakes and definately tainted the overall issue for me. Fortunately the issue was good enough to let it pass...aslong as Josh is gold next issue...

I totally approve of Archangel coming back, I always thought he was cool.

I do find it a little odd that the Purifiers who hate the mutie genetic freaks are so willing to turn themselves into inhuman alien infested creatures...but it's shaping up to be a pretty cool saga.



This could open up a lot of cool opportunities!

Ooh Jubilee! And as luck would have it, best friend and fellow New Warrior Jono is also Apocalypsified these days...saviour from New Warriors for the dynmaic duo?! Oh and Paige was healed too! Generation Apocalypse anyone?!

I can't remember anyone else aside from Magma...
Oh I'm sure that Paige got some Angel cells implanted into her..LOL

[Brett P]

Oh I'm sure that Paige got some Angel cells implanted into her..LOL

ewww :biggrin:

But hey, maybe this could lead to Paige gaining the Age of Apocalypse version of her powers! She definately needs the upgrade!

[RazorBats79]

Oh baby! This was a great issue! Clayton Crain!!!!

[Trississ]

Oh baby! This was a great issue! Clayton Crain!!!!

Crain's art is awesome. But I can't wait for Choi and Oback. They'll blow Crain away.

[fitditz]

Crain's art is awesome. But I can't wait for Choi and Oback. They'll blow Crain away.
While I'm a big fan of Choi, Crain's style is well suited for this series.

[Porcelain]

I would agree that's the face value, but think back 4 issues ago when Wolverine decked Cyclops for enlisting her in the first place. He gave a self-righteous speal about how he brought her to Xavier's to learn how to be human and how Laura doesn't know how to make choices. I'd say Wolverine's comments about the value of her life could have a pretty dramatic affect on Laura's potential humanity. And that's a great way for Laura to learn to make choices. Tell her what to choose. Sure, Wolverine hates the idea of taking orders and probably hates that aspect of Laura. But he is the leader, designated and agreed to, so he needs to suck it up and act responsibly.
I remain of the opinion that he's comments were just an angry tirade, with no justification at all.
I'm not disagreeing he said it in the heat of the moment, or that's he's the most emotionally intelligent of people (kinda why I like Kyle & Yost so much, they write imperfect real characters).

I do think there's still a crucial character point in there, they are soliders/killers, by environment and biology - shown ever so clearly by X's remark that Rahne "should have known better" (implying it was her fault) because she had been trained. Rahne may have a Werewolf inside of her, but her personality couldn't be father from it, she has never had to experience what X or Wolverine has, so she still has her hope & innocence, that is what they are fighting for - even if they have to die for it.

I want to see X develop & grow I really do (love her to bits), but I think it would be naive to think she could ever become a person as full of innocence & hope as Rahne has been shown to be, given everything she has experienced. Unless, of course she gets a Logan level mind-blank.
I thought her Anubis look was just the result of her mask not coming off when she changed forms? I seem to recall seeing some concept art where Rahne wore a full face mask in human form for that purpose.

|EDIT| Yeah, here's the pic of her wearing a full face mask (at least that's probably what it is):
http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/cons/baltimore2007/marvel/XForceConcept1.jpg
Good catch. Think there's more too it though, she's depicted as all black (underarms etc) as the Anubis-alike and physically seems a bit more than de-fluffed.

[Josef F.]

Blink is Sexy.

http://image.comicvine.com:8000/item/13000/12548/27001-blink_400.jpg

Chamber is unexpected.

http://image.comicvine.com:8000/item/3000/2244/108245-decibel_400.jpeg

They'd finish up the team nicely.

A) I want my Akkaba showdown
B) I want Chamber to stop being Songbird.
C) I want Blink's ousting from Exiles to have some repercussion in the world.

I would like this team.
It's incredibly unlikely, but still, I'd like it.

[creaky]

Blink is Sexy.

http://image.comicvine.com:8000/item/13000/12548/27001-blink_400.jpg


That move reminds me of Rin's Flying Wasps maneuver in Blade of the Immortal. The great thing about it was that it was flashy, but completely useless.
God, I love Blade of the Immortal.

Do we have any votes for Jean yet in the "unexpected" category?

[shadowzoid]

I dont get angel.

why cant his wings grow back? why did he sprout new wing? what is the apocalpse strain. and what is the diff between archangel and angel?

[fitditz]

I dont get angel.

why cant his wings grow back? why did he sprout new wing? what is the apocalpse strain. and what is the diff between archangel and angel?
there's a threat devoted solely for these types of questions :)

[shadowzoid]

look, this forum is suited for this question. Im pissed of you ppl telling me where to put stuff. THIS THREAD IS GOOD FOR THIS QUESTION

[Monty_Cristo]

I dont get angel.

i don't get crocs. why would someone wear ugly shoes just because they're comfortable?

why cant his wings grow back?

because that's not his mutant power.

why did he sprout new wing?

he didn't. he's had blade wings before.

what is the apocalpse strain.

it's like a sexually transmitted disease but Apocalypse instead of sexually.

and what is the diff between archangel and angel?

Archangel is Warren Worthington III. he has powers and is a guy. Angel was depowered during M-Day and is currently a New Warrior. plus she's a female.

[Old No.7]

look, this forum is suited for this question. Im pissed of you ppl telling me where to put stuff. THIS THREAD IS GOOD FOR THIS QUESTION

Read slowly.

[shadowzoid]

ok, i tot angel was warren. then he turned blue or smthng. and angel has healing factor, why cnt he regorw his wings

[Teh m0nk3y]

ok, i tot angel was warren. then he turned blue or smthng. and angel has healing factor, why cnt he regorw his wings
Go read this page. It should answer all your unnecessary questions about Warren.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archangel_%28comics%29

[We R. Venom]

Archangel, god damn son! I was surprised by this. Mostly cuz I dont read X-Force yet. Yes, don't yet. It's both good and bad to me. Good cuz I always liked the blue, evil archangel, but bad because he is evil, if you get me. Seems like he just became good and useful again. It's like the writers are saying the only way Angel can be usefual is as a powerful archangel. Damn.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Archangel, god damn son! I was surprised by this. Mostly cuz I dont read X-Force yet. Yes, don't yet. It's both good and bad to me. Good cuz I always liked the blue, evil archangel, but bad because he is evil, if you get me. Seems like he just became good and useful again. It's like the writers are saying the only way Angel can be usefual is as a powerful archangel. Damn.

My hot comic book dream would be having the metal winged Archangel in a business suit doing a corporate hostile takeover, while scaring the bejeezus out of the people in the meeting room...:tongue:

[Push You Down]

Go read this page. It should answer all your unnecessary questions about Warren.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archangel_%28comics%29

::coughcough:douche::cough::

[We R. Venom]

My hot comic book dream would be having the metal winged Archangel in a business suit doing a corporate hostile takeover, while scaring the bejeezus out of the people in the meeting room...:tongue:

*blinks* lol wow, nice one. Add Tony Stark and you got yourself a bankable mini.

[worstblogever]

Go read this page. It should answer all your unnecessary questions about Warren.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archangel_%28comics%29

I see you, and I'll raise you.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=100

Mind you, this looks like it hasn't been updated recently, since it's last issue reference is X-Men (vol. 2) #157. Someone on their site might want to get to that.

However... compare Archangel to Icarus. Icarus was granted a healing factor BY his wings, and once they were cut off by Stryker, it was gone and he had to heal normally, and couldn't grow them back.

Warren had his wings torn off originally by the Marauders, and he couldn't grow them back. Enter Apocalypse, and some tinkering with Celestial technology... implanting what's now been given the moniker of "The Apocalypse strain". He grew the metal wings, which stayed on him for years, and eventually would crack to reveal Warren's old feathered wings beneath.

Point of all this, I guess is, are the feathered wings also the source of Warren's healing factor, so once Rahne ripped them off, he was injured again and wouldn't heal? I'm leaning towards yes, especially with the number of similarities between the Icarus' and Angel's mutations documented.

Even if most of that was written by Austen at first... but Kyle & Yost after that...

[shadowzoid]

if angel cant heal his wings, then how did his wings grow back under the matal ones?

[Old No.7]

if angel cant heal his wings, then how did his wings grow back under the matal ones?

You could say it's part of the Apocalypse tech in his blood. It might be that Warren is able to go back and forth between metal and feather. This would explain the previous feather wings growing under the metal ones...or atleast come close.

But you also, since the arc isn't done, we have to WAIT for some of these answers.

[Teh m0nk3y]

if angel cant heal his wings, then how did his wings grow back under the matal ones?

They just came back of their own accord. Which was illogical at the time, cause Apocalypse doesn't have a single shred of humanity in his cold empty shell. Why would he ever return Warren's feathered wings? This issues answer was that the wings never came back. The metal wings disguised itself as the old feathered ones.

[worstblogever]

if angel cant heal his wings, then how did his wings grow back under the matal ones?

Look...

Warren
V 1.0 Wings white skin.
V 1.5 No wings (after Marauders rip 'em off) can't heal 'em. White skin.
V 2.0 Metal Wings after he's given a dose of the Apocalypse strain, becomes Death for awhile. Blue skin.
V 2.5 Metal wings shatter, reveal feathered wings beneath. Blue skin.
V 3.0 Feathered Wings, but with a healing factor and white skin.
V 3.5 No wings, no healing factor, white skin. (after they're ripped off by Rahne. Can't heal new ones.)
V 4.0 Metal wings, blue skin again. (Elixir can't heal the wings, and once they're gone, the Apocalypse genetic tinkering flares back up).

Icarus
V 1.0 Wings and healing factor.
V 1.5 Wings cut off, healing factor gone.

[We R. Venom]

Look...

Warren
V 1.0 Wings white skin.
V 1.5 No wings (after Marauders rip 'em off) can't heal 'em. White skin.
V 2.0 Metal Wings after he's given a dose of the Apocalypse strain, becomes Death for awhile. Blue skin.
V 2.5 Metal wings shatter, reveal feathered wings beneath. Blue skin.
V 3.0 Feathered Wings, but with a healing factor and white skin.
V 3.5 No wings, no healing factor, white skin. (after they're ripped off by Rahne. Can't heal new ones.)
V 4.0 Metal wings, blue skin again. (Elixir can't heal the wings, and once they're gone, the Apocalypse genetic tinkering flares back up).

Icarus
V 1.0 Wings and healing factor.
V 1.5 Wings cut off, healing factor gone.

And 'm sure Angel is no where near close to changing.

[Old No.7]

Look...

Warren
V 1.0 Wings white skin.
V 1.5 No wings (after Marauders rip 'em off) can't heal 'em. White skin.
V 2.0 Metal Wings after he's given a dose of the Apocalypse strain, becomes Death for awhile. Blue skin.
V 2.5 Metal wings shatter, reveal feathered wings beneath. Blue skin.
V 3.0 Feathered Wings, but with a healing factor and white skin.
V 3.5 No wings, no healing factor, white skin. (after they're ripped off by Rahne. Can't heal new ones.)
V 4.0 Metal wings, blue skin again. (Elixir can't heal the wings, and once they're gone, the Apocalypse genetic tinkering flares back up).

Icarus
V 1.0 Wings and healing factor.
V 1.5 Wings cut off, healing factor gone.
Icarus
V 2.0 Worm food, wings in the dumpster.

[worstblogever]

Icarus
V 2.0 Worm food, wings in the dumpster.

Yeah, good times.

Good times.

[HeckBoy]

What does everyone else think of Warren's sudden superstrength? Do you think it's just one of those one-time, "too much adrenaline/energy being released due to the transformation" things or do you think he'll actually keep some of it? I mean, if he's able to give James some trouble in the strength department, that's saying something.

[We R. Venom]

What does everyone else think of Warren's sudden superstrength? Do you think it's just one of those one-time, "too much adrenaline/energy being released due to the transformation" things or do you think he'll actually keep some of it? I mean, if he's able to give James some trouble in the strength department, that's saying something.

May it will shut up those who once considered Angel useless.

I guess K/Y just don't like wings.

[Old No.7]

What does everyone else think of Warren's sudden superstrength? Do you think it's just one of those one-time, "too much adrenaline/energy being released due to the transformation" things or do you think he'll actually keep some of it? I mean, if he's able to give James some trouble in the strength department, that's saying something.

Adrenaline/energy being released. I think folks are looking too much into it. James also probably wasn't using his full strength either to hold him down. When someone is jerking around like that, if you jam their arm down you risk breaking it. So I think it was just Warren was freaking out, in extreme pain and going ape shit and also that James didn't wanna break his bones trying to hold him down.

[HeckBoy]

Adrenaline/energy being released. I think folks are looking too much into it. James also probably wasn't using his full strength either to hold him down. When someone is jerking around like that, if you jam their arm down you risk breaking it. So I think it was just Warren was freaking out, in extreme pain and going ape shit and also that James didn't wanna break his bones trying to hold him down.That's what I figure also. Plus, since he isn't exactly a brawler or a heavy lifter, a strength increase for Warren is pretty unnoticeable in most situations.

[Josef F.]

Adrenaline/energy being released. I think folks are looking too much into it. James also probably wasn't using his full strength either to hold him down. When someone is jerking around like that, if you jam their arm down you risk breaking it. So I think it was just Warren was freaking out, in extreme pain and going ape shit and also that James didn't wanna break his bones trying to hold him down.

Angel has a certain degree of spuperstregth of somethin.
He's like a swan or something?
I dunno, but I'm pretty sure he does. . .

Yeah, good times.

Good times.

Bad times.
:frown:

[worstblogever]

Angel has a certain degree of spuperstregth of somethin.
He's like a swan or something?
I dunno, but I'm pretty sure he does. . .


Never underestimate the might of swans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6NAL8fDrwk

[Naela]

Icarus
V 1.0 Wings and healing factor.
V 1.5 Wings cut off, healing factor gone.

So... basically if someone wanted badly enough to bring Icarus back... all they had to do is stick those wings back onto him since I recall him coming back from the dead in that pseudo Romeo+Juliet arc.

[Brett P]

it's like a sexually transmitted disease but Apocalypse instead of sexually.


Icarus
V 2.0 Worm food, wings in the dumpster.

Damn these both made me laugh :biggrin:

[DeadXMan]

no

Icarus has a fatel Flaw that won't let him come back.

He was created by Austain.
(Wolf cub and Annie are the last two we need to hunt down)

[Brett P]

no

Icarus has a fatel Flaw that won't let him come back.

He was created by Austain.
(Wolf cub and Annie are the last two we need to hunt down)

Wrong.

Josh Guthrie has been around for years as one of the many Guthrie siblings. Created by...(Claremont?)

And Wolf Cub was created by BKV in his Chamber mini series.

[DeadXMan]

too late the stinch of Austian is on them!
let death sweet embrace take them to the void so they may never return!

So long Josh
Adios Fishstick boy
Good ridiance to Kurt's "father"
and the second Xorn

[Brett P]

Well "Austens stench" is also on the majority of the X-Men so should they all be lined up for the firing squad too?

I liked alot of Austens stuff personally.

Also, spell checker is your friend.

[DeadXMan]

Well "Austens stench" is also on the majority of the X-Men so should they all be lined up for the firing squad too?

I liked alot of Austens stuff personally.

Also, spell checker is your friend.

CC came in a saved them in the one shot
but sadly some were beyond saving and , like Josh, a bullet was more merciful
and no, it's not.
See why

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mj6QqCH7g0Q

[Josef F.]

CC came in a saved them in the one shot
but sadly some were beyond saving and , like Josh, a bullet was more merciful


CC?
Saved?
Icarus Bashing?
Guns?

We are not destined to be friends.

[DeadXMan]

They always bring in CC to fix every %$^up to creat a blank state for the next writer, Even his.

[Monty_Cristo]

Angel has a certain degree of spuperstregth of somethin.
He's like a swan or something?
I dunno, but I'm pretty sure he does. . .



Bad times.
:frown:

super-strength isn't as impressive when you consider that he has hollow bones, to boot. he can lift a piano but his arms will instantly shatter in the process.

[Monty_Cristo]

i think Warren should have to eat an entire set of wings to regrow his own.

[DeadXMan]

X-force goes to Hooters sound like a good one shot

Drawn by Choi of course

[worstblogever]

Wrong.

Josh Guthrie has been around for years as one of the many Guthrie siblings. Created by...(Claremont?)


Josh "Jay" Guthrie, was in fact created by Claremont and debuted in New Mutants (vol 1.) #42. It was the big Lila Cheney/Cannonball/Dazzler issue thing. He didn't have wings at the time, as he hadn't hit puberty yet.

And Wolf Cub, yeah, correct again.

Although, Maximus Lobo, the Draco, Kiwi Black, and Mammomax were three of Austen's creations... all are dead, depowered, or stuck in another dimension now. DeadXMan is right... a lot of Austen's ideas get scrapped. Nurse Annie and her boy Carter are two I'm sure we'd like to find out are taking a dirt nap.

[deadpool2008]

Wow, much different X-Force than I'm used to reading, but I loved this book. I'm sad though we are going to have to wait so long for #5

[worstblogever]

I thought about it... I think Warren will still have air superiority to all of the Choir, hands down. Why, you ask?

Well, one... experience. He's practiced flying for like his whole adult life.

And two? Warren will be far more maneuverable due to his mutation of hollow bones. The Choir, in comparison, don't have that benefit and will be clunkier, slower to accelerate, and arc and dive.

Look for Archangel to slaughter a LOT of them.

[Porcelain]

Plus they've only had a tiny bit of the strain injected to produce the wings, second hand manufactured even - he appears to be riddled with the original "it".

[Grunty]

I thought about it... I think Warren will still have air superiority to all of the Choir, hands down. Why, you ask?

Well, one... experience. He's practiced flying for like his whole adult life.

And two? Warren will be far more maneuverable due to his mutation of hollow bones. The Choir, in comparison, don't have that benefit and will be clunkier, slower to accelerate, and arc and dive.

Look for Archangel to slaughter a LOT of them.

Thinking about it, Warren would most likely beat them even with organic wings. There are just to many things about winds, air currents and speed you would need to learn before mastering wing based flight like he does.

Of course with metal wings its more like flying a jet fighter than a glider, but again he has more experince in that one too (just would need to get the feeling for it back).

[rwsmith]

I thought about it... I think Warren will still have air superiority to all of the Choir, hands down. Why, you ask?

Well, one... experience. He's practiced flying for like his whole adult life.

And two? Warren will be far more maneuverable due to his mutation of hollow bones. The Choir, in comparison, don't have that benefit and will be clunkier, slower to accelerate, and arc and dive.

Look for Archangel to slaughter a LOT of them.

I hope so! :evilsmile:

Nice to have Archangel back IMO.

I wonder who Warpath will be fighting in issue #6? The name is blacked out, so it's bound to be another surprise from Chris & Craig.

[DeadXMan]

and let's not forget he knows the offincive capibilites of his metal wings.

[Fatguy]

i think Warren should have to eat an entire set of wings to regrow his own.

lol

I liked this issue a lot, this series is definitely surpassing my expectations. I know the whole metal vs. organic wings thing has been debated on these forums for a long, long time now, but I really missed the 90's GRRRR! metal winged Archangel, and if he's back to some degree, I'm super excited :wink:

And this book is challenging New Avengers for my favorite place to read Wolverine. Kyle and Yost are doing awesome with him.

[worstblogever]

I hope so! :evilsmile:

Nice to have Archangel back IMO.

I wonder who Warpath will be fighting in issue #6? The name is blacked out, so it's bound to be another surprise from Chris & Craig.

If they're obsessed with finding the "Apocalypse Strain"... maybe the Purifiers dig up Caliban? He'd have some in him, too.

[DeadXMan]

Something just occured to me

This is the second time Wolfsbane has gutted Exalt after he'd healed her.


No, means no Golden boy. :rolleyes:

[ExodusCloak]

I thought about it... I think Warren will still have air superiority to all of the Choir, hands down. Why, you ask?

Well, one... experience. He's practiced flying for like his whole adult life.

And two? Warren will be far more maneuverable due to his mutation of hollow bones. The Choir, in comparison, don't have that benefit and will be clunkier, slower to accelerate, and arc and dive.

Look for Archangel to slaughter a LOT of them.

Yep, a lot of the older issues (UXM 1-66) highlight Angels manoeuverability as well. The Human Torch was very impressed with Angels flying as was Iron Man.

[joemagnum611]

I'm wondering what everyone thinks of Elixir staying in X-Force? Not necessarily part of the team, but for support.

that would pretty much suck. They should just call on him for some heavy duty healling and then he should just go away. If any NXM character would fit the team I'd vote for Prodigy.

[Affinity]

Crazy dark Elixir would be cool in X-Force. I think that rumor was floating around for a while.

They all have advanced healing, really, but Elixir could get crazy with his darker powers.

[Alphaxman]

Look...

Warren
V 1.0 Wings white skin.
V 1.5 No wings (after Marauders rip 'em off) can't heal 'em. White skin.
V 2.0 Metal Wings after he's given a dose of the Apocalypse strain, becomes Death for awhile. Blue skin.
V 2.5 Metal wings shatter, reveal feathered wings beneath. Blue skin.
V 3.0 Feathered Wings, but with a healing factor and white skin.
V 3.5 No wings, no healing factor, white skin. (after they're ripped off by Rahne. Can't heal new ones.)
V 4.0 Metal wings, blue skin again. (Elixir can't heal the wings, and once they're gone, the Apocalypse genetic tinkering flares back up).

Icarus
V 1.0 Wings and healing factor.
V 1.5 Wings cut off, healing factor gone.

Don't forget Warren's light wings he had during the Twelve storyline. I liked those powers he had.
1) Light Wings/ Light hair
2) Healing Light
3) Energy talons

that would be version 3.0

[Brett P]

Yost replied to a friends Myspace message/rant about the mistakes in this issue, and said that he thought Elixir looked more gold in the pages he saw before the book was published but that given the knowledge he gained from Beast about human/mutant genetics, Josh could make his skin any color he wanted. Chris said if this was the case, he thought a gold/black glow for power usage could be cool. So we may be going back to generic white skinned Josh thanks to this slip up...guess we'll see next issue (if he's in it).

Also, Sarah's name being wrong was a typo, not the letterer,

[kraiden]

this is the best xbook by far and the best book in marvel. shame they cant upgrade it to MAX comic where it should be.
I love returning Archangel. it makes no sense that all the origional xmen are superpowered and elite.... and then you have angel. I mean... jean is a GOD and Iceman is omega level mutant. Having angel be jaded and dark would be a nice twist. LOOOOOVVVEE IT!!!!
a return to 90's comics would be a good thing... last I checked we had a comicbook store on every block in those days. cant find one for miles now.



My ideal Xforce team?
Wolverine
Warpath
X-23
Archangel
Wolvesbane
Shatterstar
Domino


it would also be cool is if they made elixers powers have to yin and yang. He has to kill in order to heal. it would make the charachter quirky and cause problems. he wouldnt always be offensive and he wouldnt always be a healer..

[Hakael]

this is the best xbook by far and the best book in marvel. shame they cant upgrade it to MAX comic where it should be.
I love returning Archangel. it makes no sense that all the origional xmen are superpowered and elite.... and then you have angel. I mean... jean is a GOD and Iceman is omega level mutant. Having angel be jaded and dark would be a nice twist. LOOOOOVVVEE IT!!!!
a return to 90's comics would be a good thing... last I checked we had a comicbook store on every block in those days. cant find one for miles now.



My ideal Xforce team?
Wolverine
Warpath
X-23
Archangel
Wolvesbane
Shatterstar
Domino


it would also be cool is if they made elixers powers have to yin and yang. He has to kill in order to heal. it would make the charachter quirky and cause problems. he wouldnt always be offensive and he wouldnt always be a healer..

gross... shatterstar...
boring guy with swords can stay in limbo.
Domino is already pretty much a given. I don't think they'd chuck her on the X-Men 500 cover for nothing.

at joemagnum... how in the world do you think David is a good fit for this team? He's HUMAN. Completely human. Granted, he has good all around hand to hand skills... but its only gonna take one bullet, stab, or even well placed punch to take him out of a fight. I think it would be an interesting story to put him in X-Force only because he's such a horrible fit and having him struggle to find a place on the team could be a good plot point. The only role I could really see him being good at with X-Force would be as a point man, giving out info and such... but most definately not on the field team.

[Hakael]

Yost replied to a friends Myspace message/rant about the mistakes in this issue, and said that he thought Elixir looked more gold in the pages he saw before the book was published but that given the knowledge he gained from Beast about human/mutant genetics, Josh could make his skin any color he wanted. Chris said if this was the case, he thought a gold/black glow for power usage could be cool. So we may be going back to generic white skinned Josh thanks to this slip up...guess we'll see next issue (if he's in it).

Also, Sarah's name being wrong was a typo, not the letterer,

if Yost did indeed say something along those lines... it makes sense. Josh could probably alter his skin pigmentation to do whatever he wanted with his knowledge. To be honest, I thought the glow looked pretty cool in the book as it was shown.

[kraiden]

a born and bred killer who uses swords, knives and a bad attitude (least he did in the early 90's) to win any battle and any mission at any cost.
do you remember the mans first real line? he gets yoked up from behind by some big dude and he stabs HIMSELF with his sword and it goes thru him and into the guy behind him...killing him. Is shatter star immune to pain? nope. so why did he stab himself?
"to win at any cost"

thats a bad ass and a better charachter than teenie bopper wolverine wit tits.
he is a killer and thats what the team is about.

[HeckBoy]

If they're obsessed with finding the "Apocalypse Strain"... maybe the Purifiers dig up Caliban? He'd have some in him, too.You know, that would actually be pretty cool. And I'd actually welcome Caliban back into the fold. Maybe he's just gotten more sympathetic since his death, but I feel he deserves to finally be on a X-team for keeps.

[Hakael]

a born and bred killer who uses swords, knives and a bad attitude (least he did in the early 90's) to win any battle and any mission at any cost.
do you remember the mans first real line? he gets yoked up from behind by some big dude and he stabs HIMSELF with his sword and it goes thru him and into the guy behind him...killing him. Is shatter star immune to pain? nope. so why did he stab himself?
"to win at any cost"

thats a bad ass and a better charachter than teenie bopper wolverine wit tits.
he is a killer and thats what the team is about.

Oh, I'm not saying the Shatterstar isn't skilled at what he does, he is... I'm just saying he's lame, and has always been completely dull and uninteresting. He'd also be redundant with this group... I think we have enough people with claws and knives. The guy and his pony tail should go back to arena fighting, or back to the mojoverse

also Laura has tons more appeal and likability than Shatterstar... which is kinda sad, cause she's almost robotic.

[joemagnum611]

gross... shatterstar...
boring guy with swords can stay in limbo.
Domino is already pretty much a given. I don't think they'd chuck her on the X-Men 500 cover for nothing.

at joemagnum... how in the world do you think David is a good fit for this team? He's HUMAN. Completely human. Granted, he has good all around hand to hand skills... but its only gonna take one bullet, stab, or even well placed punch to take him out of a fight. I think it would be an interesting story to put him in X-Force only because he's such a horrible fit and having him struggle to find a place on the team could be a good plot point. The only role I could really see him being good at with X-Force would be as a point man, giving out info and such... but most definately not on the field team.

David has great hand to hand combat if you apply all the knowledge that he picked up. Hell if you did that there's almost nothing the kid doesn't know. He'd be a great strategist and give him any number of wepons he'd be able to take care of himself and watch his teamates backs. I don't see what him being human has to do with anything. Hell a well placed bullet would take out Rahne or Warpath too Val Cooper is just human and she used to go on missions with X-Factor all the time and I'd say that now David is now way more qualified to be in the field than she'll ever be.

[joemagnum611]

gross... shatterstar...
boring guy with swords can stay in limbo.
Domino is already pretty much a given. I don't think they'd chuck her on the X-Men 500 cover for nothing.

at joemagnum... how in the world do you think David is a good fit for this team? He's HUMAN. Completely human. Granted, he has good all around hand to hand skills... but its only gonna take one bullet, stab, or even well placed punch to take him out of a fight. I think it would be an interesting story to put him in X-Force only because he's such a horrible fit and having him struggle to find a place on the team could be a good plot point. The only role I could really see him being good at with X-Force would be as a point man, giving out info and such... but most definately not on the field team.

David has great hand to hand combat if you apply all the knowledge that he picked up. Hell if you did that there's almost nothing the kid doesn't know. He'd be a great strategist and give him any number of wepons he'd be able to take care of himself and watch his teamates backs. I don't see what him being human has to do with anything. Hell a well placed bullet would take out Rahne or Warpath too Val Cooper is just human and she used to go on missions with X-Factor all the time and I'd say that now David is now way more qualified to be in the field than she'll ever be.

[joemagnum611]

gross... shatterstar...
boring guy with swords can stay in limbo.
Domino is already pretty much a given. I don't think they'd chuck her on the X-Men 500 cover for nothing.

at joemagnum... how in the world do you think David is a good fit for this team? He's HUMAN. Completely human. Granted, he has good all around hand to hand skills... but its only gonna take one bullet, stab, or even well placed punch to take him out of a fight. I think it would be an interesting story to put him in X-Force only because he's such a horrible fit and having him struggle to find a place on the team could be a good plot point. The only role I could really see him being good at with X-Force would be as a point man, giving out info and such... but most definately not on the field team.

David has great hand to hand combat if you apply all the knowledge that he picked up. Hell if you did that there's almost nothing the kid doesn't know. He'd be a great strategist and give him any number of wepons he'd be able to take care of himself and watch his teamates backs. I don't see what him being human has to do with anything. Hell a well placed bullet would take out Rahne or Warpath too Val Cooper is just human and she used to go on missions with X-Factor all the time and I'd say that now David is now way more qualified to be in the field than she'll ever be.

[Pro]

And two? Warren will be far more maneuverable due to his mutation of hollow bones. The Choir, in comparison, don't have that benefit and will be clunkier, slower to accelerate, and arc and dive.

I'd laugh my arse off if it turned out Bastion forgot to take weight into account when making the choir. Birds wouldn't be able to take off if they didn't have hollow bones.

"Flap your wings damn it. Fly. Fly!!". (Pushes the choir members off a cliff one by one)

[Pro]

I wish they could find a way to put Marrow on the team (repowered). It could be the thing that could push me to add this book to my pull list.

[Pach!]

I'd laugh my arse off if it turned out Bastion forgot to take weight into account when making the choir. Birds wouldn't be able to take off if they didn't have hollow bones.

"Flap your wings damn it. Fly. Fly!!". (Pushes the choir members off a cliff one by one)

lol

But birds don't have metallic wings!

[Grunty]

I wish they could find a way to put Marrow on the team (repowered). It could be the thing that could push me to add this book to my pull list.

That would be a cold day in Hades.

Since i don't think Kyle and Yost are the type of writers who would give a character like her a chance. Dunno why, i just get that impression from reading theire stuff.

Her backstory is to freaky (former Morlock, grown up in an hostile offworld place) and not streetwise enough, she is a character from the mid 90's, her powers are not "cool", she has never defeated anyone important and she was to often portrayed as hotblooded and an unskilled fighter (combared to the experinced ones like Wolverine or Nightcrawler).
She is just not theire type if you ask me.

Not to forget that the last eight years long she had been mostly in Limbo or under a bad writers (sorry Weapon X fans but Frank Tieris series was just lame).

Even thought her combat abilitys and knowledge, her sneaking skills and her preference for blade weapons would fit the title. Also her anarchic personality would bring in a nice contrast to the rest of the cast, especialy the cold and maschine like Laura.

On another note, repowering her wouldn't be so difficult if you ask me. After all there are a lot of ways writers could use (good and bad ones).

The only problem i have with the idea of her turning up in X-force, would be if i should feel happy for her sorry for her.
But since it won't happen anyway, who cares?

[Pro]

she has never defeated anyone important

Wolverine is marvel's most important character and she jabbed him through the throat. Marrow beats Wolverine. Suck on that Logan :p. Also answers how much of an experienced fighter she is. She spend her entire childhood and teen years literally fighting an uphill battle. At least ten years of constant unceasing bloody hand-to-hand combat. Hardly inexperienced.

Not to forget that the last eight years long she had been mostly in Limbo or under a bad writers

Hasn't stopped Angel from showing up. Warren's been mostly a background character for years, his powers considered too weak to be usefull. Swanboy was hardly the epitome of coolness either. The only thing he had going for him was his veteran status while other characters took the spotlight for years and years.

Her backstory is to freaky

As compared to a mutant who had his wings cut off, replaced by metallic wings to act as Death for Apocalypse, had the metalic wings transformed into feathered wings and gained a healing gift, had the wings transformed into light until he burned them out healing someone, had the wings replaced again recently by metallic wings.

Or do you mean compared to a mutant who is 100 years old, had his memory wiped over and over because they kept killing his girlfriends, had his memories overwritted a dozen or so times until he finally regained them after another mutant changed the entire world in her image and repaired his memories because it was Logan's biggest wish after which he found out that all of his life he was manipulated by Romulus, an ancient mutant somehow tied to some prehistoric war. Oh yea and has an 80 year old teenage son and a clone daughter.

But birds don't have metallic wings!

Metallic wings ain't gonna make em lighter! The choir's not going to be taking off if the laws of aerodynamics have anything to say about it :p

(Of course if i recall correctly Archangel gave off a slight energy trail when flying when he used to have his metallic wings and Archangel would be equally burdened by the weight of his wings so likely there is some gravity manipulation involved in Archangel's flight which counteracts the weight issue which would probably transfer to the choir)

[Trississ]

I think Domino is a safe bet, but I'm not so sure about Angel/Archangel. I don't think he'll be tagged for the team. Nor do I think Elixer will become a member. Considering the current lineup, a healer wouldn't be very useful. Logan and Laura don't need one really and James is extra durable. Rahne could use one around, but she'd just flip out and attack Elixer again if he tried to heal her.
I keep hearing this alternate time displaced Cable theory, but that really doesn't seem that likely either. I mean, Cable's not really that popular of a character is he? Maybe I'm wrong about that.
So hypothetically who's the most likely?
One's unexpected
One's brutal
And one's sexy.

Domino could kinda fit any of those, so just for the fun of it, let's assume any of those catagories are open.

I'm putting putting the odds on Domino at 1:1, on Archangel at 1:2 and Elixer at 1:4 and they're only that good for Warren and Josh because they've been featured in the book already.

Who are you're most likely suspects and at what odds would you put them at?

[Pro]

Cable's not really that popular of a character is he?

2008 is the new 90's. My bet's still on a younger Cable being the one leading the Summers revolution and bringing back Layla with him to the present.

[Trississ]

2008 is the new 90's. My bet's still on a younger Cable being the one leading the Summers revolution and bringing back Layla with him to the present.

<3 Pro
I have always liked Cable myself, and personally I think that would be HAWT. As a whole though, my impression has been that Cable's popularity has declined over the years. I mean, he had Deadpool as a partner for a while, so that gave him a certain level of cool just by association, but then he went all messiah, alpha male with sagely wisdom, yadda yadda. Kinda boring.

Okay, as much as I love that theory, I can still only put the odds at 1:8 and that's being generous.

[rwsmith]

I'm thinking that this third mystery member will either end up being Cable or perhaps no one at all.

At the time the X-Position came out where C&C made those comments about the three new members, Rahne was not technically a member of X-Force (hell, as of right now she's still not!). So she could be the "devastatingly brutal" one now that she's been altered by Reverend Craig. Archangel could be the "off-the-radar-unexpected" one, as I don't believe anyone saw his re-transformation coming (until they debuted the cover for issue #5, that is). And I'd be willing to bet that Domino is the "sexy as hell" addition.

If they were operating from the position that Rahne was already a member of the team when they dropped those hints, though, I'd switch Archangel to "devastatingly brutal" (as I believe he will do horrible things to the Choir) and say that this rumor about a time-displaced, more militant Cable coming back and joining is probably true and that he is going to be the "off-the-radar-unexpected" one.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see unfortunately. I really hate waiting. :mad:

[HeckBoy]

2008 is the new 90's. My bet's still on a younger Cable being the one leading the Summers revolution and bringing back Layla with him to the present.Can I ask where this theory came from? I've been hearing about it for awhile now and I'm wondering what started it. Is it just pure fan speculation? something derived from something one of the writers said? or maybe hints peppered in the book? Also, by a "younger" Cable, is everyone talking about a Nate Grey-aged Nathan or simply an early 1990s X-Force-aged Cable?

[rwsmith]

There was this rumor-monger/blogger calling himself "Marvel Boy" who claimed to be an employee at Marvel (and I think it turned out that he was, actually, and was fired for posting spoilers from upcoming comics on his blog). Several of the spoilers he posted (most notably many from Secret Invasion) turned out to be true. Having said that, at the time he posted those spoilers SI #1 was about a week or two from coming out, so that doesn't exactly prove that he was a Marvel employee.

At any rate, one of the last things he posted said that a "time-displaced version of Cable (more militant like he was in the early 90's) was going to show up in X-Force and join the team." He specifically said it was Cable and mentioned the fact that he would be more militant like he was when he first appeared, so I don't think he got confused with Nate Grey.

My thinking is that it could be total B.S., and in fact it might've been a false rumor put out by Marvel to catch the guy (since he got caught shortly after posting that one). Or it could be legit and Cable will show up in issue #5 or 6 (as I can't imagine he would've had knowledge about anything much beyond this first arc on X-Force).

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[HeckBoy]

There was this rumor-monger/blogger calling himself "Marvel Boy" who claimed to be an employee at Marvel (and I think it turned out that he was, actually, and was fired for posting spoilers from upcoming comics on his blog). Several of the spoilers he posted (most notably many from Secret Invasion) turned out to be true. Having said that, at the time he posted those spoilers SI #1 was about a week or two from coming out, so that doesn't exactly prove that he was a Marvel employee.

At any rate, one of the last things he posted said that a "time-displaced version of Cable (more militant like he was in the early 90's) was going to show up in X-Force and join the team." He specifically said it was Cable and mentioned the fact that he would be more militant like he was when he first appeared, so I don't think he got confused with Nate Grey.

My thinking is that it could be total B.S., and in fact it might've been a false rumor put out by Marvel to catch the guy (since he got caught shortly after posting that one). Or it could be legit and Cable will show up in issue #5 or 6 (as I can't imagine he would've had knowledge about anything much beyond this first arc on X-Force).

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.Ah I see, thanx for the explanation. I'm hoping it's not really Cable though. I've never cared for his early X-Force days (in part b/c I can't stand the Liefeld design) and I think bringing that back would really make things screwy with Cable-prime already in his own book. I hope that just stays a rumor. Although, I've kinda warmed up to the idea of a de-aged Cable since seeing a teenaged Nathan (which looked like Nate Grey but w/ metal arm) in Cable/Deadpool.

[rwsmith]

Yeah, it sounds a little fishy when you think about it. I'm torn on whether I want it to happen, though.

On the one hand I like militant early 90's Cable much better than the time-hopping messianic version currently in his solo book, plus I'd much prefer to see the guy in the present and interacting with the X-men on a team of some sort.

On the other hand, I really like the dynamic of X-Force with Logan as the leader, and Cable joining would certainly screw with that dynamic (I do not see him taking orders from Wolverine). Not to mention the fact that he's already a confusing enough character as it is, and having two different versions of him running around (despite the fact that they're in two different time periods) would only serve to make him more convoluted and ridiculous in a lot of people's eyes.

I have faith in Kyle and Yost, though, and I'm sure that whatever direction they take this book in will be awesome.

[Chris Yost]

I have faith in Kyle and Yost, though, and I'm sure that whatever direction they take this book in will be awesome.

I like your attitude.

[timbox]

I like your attitude.

Have you read these forums? That's pretty much everyone's attitude. Keep it up.

[Josef F.]

I like your attitude.

Blink and Chamber!!!
The time is perfect for their reunion with Mack daddy Apocalypse!!
And Ozymandias too!
It would be sexsexsex.
You two could write a good apocalypse.
Not Fufufu I Am Bad, Ah I am beaten Apocalypse of late.

I shall hold on to my hope!

[FemGeek]

Picked my copy up over the weekend and I LOVED it! Best comic to come out this month by far. I brandished it at everyone foolish enough to be trapped on the bus with me. Can't wait to see where it's going. As for speculating new members I'd say Archangel and Domino are sure things, but I can't make up my mind about the third.

[HeckBoy]

I like your attitude.

Have you read these forums? That's pretty much everyone's attitude. Keep it up.Indeed. Keep doing what y'all are doing b/c it is fantastic. I was on the fence when a new X-Force was announced, but I have since become a big fan.

[Trississ]

I like your attitude.

Mr Yost, you realize that making posts like this is a real tease don't you? We love you're work, if the pages and pages of posts on this website weren't confirmation enough of that. Now how about some dirt?!?!?!?!?

Also, please confirm that Wolverine is, in fact, an a**hole for the way he treated Laura. Thanks!

[rwsmith]

I like your attitude.

So...would that be a confirmation or a denial of the aforementioned Cable rumor? :wink:

Seriously, though, if anyone could make something that crazy work, it would be you two guys (with Clayton Crain providing the crazy, bloody pencils).

And you did say that the team roster might change over time as well, so who knows...personally I think it's pretty perfect right now with Wolverine, Warpath, X-23, Wolfsbane and Archangel, but I suppose one or two more couldn't hurt.

Keep up the solid work, and we'll keep buying.

[timbox]

Also, please confirm that Wolverine is, in fact, an a**hole for the way he treated Laura. Thanks!

X-23 can handle that. In fact, being treated that way makes her feel strangely at peace.

[ThisMortalSoil]

Wow. Hot DAMN! I think I'm really gonna like the Choir :biggrin:

[Bulky Brent]

It was nice to see Elixir Again

[Grunty]

Wolverine is marvel's most important character and she jabbed him through the throat. Marrow beats Wolverine. Suck on that Logan :p.

Actualy as you might (hopefully) already know, i'm quite a Marrow fan so what i said was not how "I" see Marrow, but how some people (including writers) see her.
Sadly i'm a realist and i know that her portrail, which includes her fighting ability, often didn't gave her backround justice.

So for the famous Wolverine vs. Marrow fight, from X-men #72, i have to say that it was Wolverine who clearly dominated it the entire issue.
In the whole fight Marrows attacks always (except in one scene where she transforms her hand into a claw) missed.
In one scene she is charging at him and only hits a wall because Wolverine dived under her, followed by another charge in which he simply punched her in the stomach.
Also during the fight Marrow seems to be more concerned about spraying insults and stupid comments, rather than concentraiting on the fight (which made it looks as if she didn't took it serious).

In the end she only managed to stab Wolverine in the throat because he let his guard down, in order to give her a hand. Which was then followed by Wolverine going berzerk and nearly ripping Sarah appart, if not for Cannonball going between them.
However it still has a nice cover, wasn't it?

Also answers how much of an experienced fighter she is. She spend her entire childhood and teen years literally fighting an uphill battle. At least ten years of constant unceasing bloody hand-to-hand combat. Hardly inexperienced.
Again i'm fully aware of this, i'm only saying (again) that her fights often didn't showed those long time experinces, at least against named opponents.

For example during OZT she killed a Prime Sentinel in underwater combat, which is quite a victory considering those things could fly on high speed and didn't needed to breath, so she was in a disadvantage, but won as if it was nothing (she was casualy still holding the Sentinels cut off arm when Icemans group arrived the beach).
And only a few issue after her defeat by Wolverine, she came back and killed some nasty demons with only a single strikes (much to Beast amazament), not to forget facing Abomination once.

Also i can understand her fighting style to be thugish, dirty and simple, because in real battles for life and death, style and fairness have no place, the only thing that matters is that you are alive.
I think Marrows fighting style can be put in the same category as that of Marv from Sin City. Which is how her fighting style should have been shown. Ugly, simple but effective.

But it always seemed that against named opponents (especialy heros) her fighting style quickly became useless, unconcentrated and unskilled.
See her first encounter with Spiderman, her defeat by Storm, her defeat by Wolverine and her recent defeat by Syrin and Monet in X-factor.
In each of those fights she was not shown as skilled and experincend street fighter, which she should clearly be considering her backround, but as a brawler who makes loud remarks but has nothing physical to back that up (strangly when she tried to defend Layla Miller she took on three Quicksilvers and won).

So the problem is that writers will look more on her big fights against named character than her encounter against nameless ones. So writers will often see her as loser with big mouth and nothing behind it.

Hasn't stopped Angel from showing up. Warren's been mostly a background character for years, his powers considered too weak to be usefull. Swanboy was hardly the epitome of coolness either. The only thing he had going for him was his veteran status while other characters took the spotlight for years and years.
That veteran status can mean a lot when writer think about whom to pick up for a story. Veterans often appear in the beloved storys of those who became writers and they stay in the memory of people.
So while Angel is one of the original 5, which means he has to appear every now or then (alone for the nostalgic effect), Marrow is an obscure short time X-men some people want to forget with the rest of the mid to late 90's.


As compared to a mutant who had his wings cut off, replaced by metallic wings to act as Death for Apocalypse, had the metalic wings transformed into feathered wings and gained a healing gift, had the wings transformed into light until he burned them out healing someone, had the wings replaced again recently by metallic wings.

Well the problem i meant is that Marrows entire childhood happend in an enclosed space and during the comics. There is not much backstory to be explored.
Also Marrow grew up in a place which was not the "real" world. Writers nearly always prefer character which have backrounds in a relative normal world, which was what i meant with streetwise.
Because those backrounds allow to show them in theire childhood, how they interacted with the rest of the world, with theire families, theire school life. It allows writers to add more details to the character, in order to make them intresting or tie them to a new storyline.

I mean look at all those origin comics which appear at the moment, Target X, Collosus origins, Angel revelation. These are all storys which take place in an environment which we can see here in our world too.

So while a mini series or one-shot, about how she changed from little girl to harden fighter is possible and might be intresting, it would never have the same impact as storys told in the "real" world. Because we couldn't relate so easy to it.
For example Marrows backstory is simliar to some childsoldiers in africe but since having happend in a freak dimension, it will not have the same effect on readers.

Another problem is that her backstory happend nearly on pannel. We saw her before she became Marrow and we saw her after she became it. So her backstory happend between comics, not before her first appearance.
Thats another thing writers don't like. They like characters which get introduced, get theire basic backstorys explained and join the cast. So that later writers can add something in the inbetween fase, between childhood and first appearance.

Okay freak dimensions, different timelines or simliar environments can be used as intresting place for backstory (see Illyna and Limbo), however Marrows are something nobody really cared about and never will again. The same goes for Gene Nation.
There is nothing worth to revist in it. So another thing that might turn writers off (the only way i can think of, how to make The Hill intresting again would be to reveal that it was actualy a seperated part of Limbo, which would tie Marrows backround into Limbo, a place that is worth revisiting).

Or do you mean compared to a mutant who is 100 years old, had his memory wiped over and over because they kept killing his girlfriends, had his memories overwritted a dozen or so times until he finally regained them after another mutant changed the entire world in her image and repaired his memories because it was Logan's biggest wish after which he found out that all of his life he was manipulated by Romulus, an ancient mutant somehow tied to some prehistoric war. Oh yea and has an 80 year old teenage son and a clone daughter.

Again most events of Wolverines history are tied to real world places which makes him connected to "real" events, which are things people can imagine. Also its full of open spaces which is why writers like to add theire own stuff in it.

So as much as Marrow is my favorit, i see to many weakpoints which might turn writers off, especialy those who are not intrested in characters which would need repairwork in theire backstorys, are not remembered as great winners, or have stigmatas like being a late 90's character.

From my point of view C&C rather like to pick up characters who are either new or freshly repaired by other writers and Marrow clearly doesn't fit into that place.

Of course maybe they are really going to suprise me and pick her up. As fan i see enough good points in her which would make up for the bad ones i mentiod above.

QUOTE=rwsmith;6954214]...and say that this rumor about a time-displaced, more militant Cable coming back and joining is probably true and that he is going to be the "off-the-radar-unexpected" one.
[/QUOTE]

Urgh, that would destroy this comic. In that case i would rather prefer Shatterstar and i really don't like him.

I like your attitude.

How fortunate that your are here mister Yost. Maybe you can support my comment by answering this quick question (if you feel like it).

If Marrow would still be powered, would you and mister Kyle have even considered, for a short moment, to pick her as member for X-force?