Rate the leadership ability of the various X-characters

[jmc247]

Rate the leadership abilities for as many X-characters as you would like on a 1-10 scale.

1. No real leadership abilities.

5. Leadership abilities on par with the rest of the population (average).

10. Incredible leadership abilities on par with the greatest leaders of human history.

[Old No.7]

Captain America is a 10.
Cyclops is a 9.

[darknessatnoon]

Sage = 8.5
Diana Fox = -8.5

[AcesX1X]

Sage = 8.5
Diana Fox = -8.5

HAha. LOL Darkness I heart you and your hairy armpit avatar.

Storm = 10

[Optic Rage!]

Cyclops 9
Storm 8.5
Cable 8.5
Emma 7
Kurt 7
Havok 6
Rogue 6

[_Jayme_]

Cyclops = 8
Emma Frost = 7 (Sorry, it's true...look at how many students are like..dead)
Professor X = 8

No one is a 10 :tongue:

[Diablito]

Sunfire - 7

[ClanAskani]

Cyclops 9
Storm 9
Jean 8
Wolverine 4
Beast 6
Emma -2
Havok 7
Cable 8
Kitty 6
Xavier 7
Rachel 8
Rogue 7

[timbox]

I'd put Cable as top leader of the X-characters, probably a 9 overall.

[darknessatnoon]

I'd put Cable as top leader of the X-characters, probably a 9 overall.

Surge = .5

[timbox]

Surge = .5

Pffft... she's a kid, I'd give her a 6 maybe.

She at least has some experience in a leadership role.

[HellFrost]

Cyclops- 9 at least
Emma- 7 or 7.5
Havok- 8 because he doesn't believe in himself but potentially a 9
Storm- 9 at least
Rogue- 8 or 9 depending on how she's written
Beast- I think beast is between 8 and 9. He's completely capable of leading a team, I think.

[jmc247]

Cyclops- 9 at least
Havok- 8 because he doesn't believe in himself but potentially a 9
Beast- I think beast is between 8 and 9. He's completely capable of leading a team, I think.

A 6 or a 7 should be completely capable of leading an X-team, an 8 or a 9 we are talking about the ability to lead a much larger group like a nation or an army, a 10 would be capable of leading a race or a planet.

[darknessatnoon]

Pffft... she's a kid, I'd give her a 6 maybe.

She at least has some experience in a leadership role.

What?

No way. Danielle Moonstar is a 6! Surge is not a 6.

[lockerogue]

Dani Moonstar is a 7.

[HellFrost]

A 6 or a 7 should be completely capable of leading an X-team, an 8 or a 9 we are talking about the ability to lead a much larger group like a nation or an army, a 10 would be capable of leading a race or a planet.

Oh... wow. i missed that.:redface:

Well then...
Cyclops- 9
Emma- 7
Havok- 8
Storm- 9
Rogue- 7
Beast- 7

[HellFrost]

Pffft... she's a kid, I'd give her a 6 maybe.

She at least has some experience in a leadership role.

I thought Surge was an awful Leader. I feel as though Hellion should have never been taken off of the leadership position.

Surge is like a 2 or 3
Hellion is 7 right now with full potential of being a 8 or even a 9. He's a leader. NOT a follower.

[ToxicTeen]

Rouge gets between "6-8"

Whereas Surge gets a "1" (But hey she's new at this right?)

[pryde15]

Rouge gets a solid "9"

Whereas Surge gets a "1" (But hey she's new at this right?)

A "10" is stated to be competent enough to lead a nation. Cyclops is rated as a solid 9. I wouldn't say Rogue is a 9. 6 or 7 at best.

[HellFrost]

Rouge gets a solid "9"

Whereas Surge gets a "1" (But hey she's new at this right?)

I agree with Pryde15. Rogue is definitely about a 6 or 7.

But in reference to Surge... if she doesn't have a strategic mind, then she shouldn't be leading a team. I don't think she's the type to really grow as a leader either. I just don't see that in her character. She's too blinded by her emotions.

[worstblogever]

Rouge gets a solid "9"

Whereas Surge gets a "1" (But hey she's new at this right?)

Switch your U and G around there, holmes.

But if you rate Rogue high, and had to defend it, I guess it would be because of "degree of difficulty" on her team.

She had a psychopath in Sabretooth.
She had the longtime underachiever in Iceman.
The betrayer waiting to happen in Mystique.
The young drunken and ready for betrayal #1 diva, Lady M.
She had a Sentinel, with Karima.
I mean, other than getting Cable and Cannonball... her whole squad was some hard cases, and she managed pretty well.

Up until the end, though. But can you say that it was from lack of leadership, or just having threats that required her own sacrifice, before the daggers started landing in backs?

[rwsmith]

My Top 10:

1) Cable = 10 (I'd put him on par with Captain America; he took a bunch of kids and molded them into an effective fighting force, just like his pops did with the original five; he has also run two nations)

2) Cyclops = 9 (far and away the X-men's longest-serving and best leader)

3) Storm = 8 (second-best X-men leader in my mind)

4) Havok = 7 (did a good job leading X-Factor)

5) Wolverine = 7 (lots of experience, plus he did a good job during Fall of the Mutants; so far I like his style leading the new X-Force, but X-23 is a pain in the ass like he was for Cyke early on)

6) Emma Frost = 7 (smart and ballsy; an effective leader in her own right)

7) Nightcrawler = 6 (did a decent job leading Excalibur, despite not being a natural leader IMO)

8) Cannonball = 6 (did a decent job leading X-Force after Cable; he's no Cable, though)

9) Rogue = 5 (would be higher if half her team hadn't ended up betraying the X-men; poor judge of character and lack of foresight)

10) Surge = 1 (horrible; didn't she get like half of her team killed?)

[Sanctus]

Storm--9.5
Cyclops--9
Moonstar--7
Cannonball--6.5
Monet--2 (she has no need to lead when she can do it all herself)
Maddrox--7
Emma--6
Hellion--8
Anole--6
Prodigy--5 (has the possibility to be a nine or higher if he actually wanted to lead)
Cable--8.25
Rogue--5
Bishop--6

[Flameworthy]

Sunfire - 6-7

Havok - 2

[ToxicTeen]

But if you rate Rogue high, and had to defend it, I guess it would be because of "degree of difficulty" on her team.

Sorry I'll go change it. I gave her a 9(I was going to give her an 8...) only because she did a neat job with leading her team to fight the Children of the Vault and Pan.

[Canemacar]

Cyke 9-Definitely the best technical leader of thwe x-men, Scott has the tactical mind and experience to lead better than anyone except for Cap A in the marvel U.

Storm 8-The second greatest leader in the x-men. She isn't as tactical as Scott, but she inspires more loyalty and dedication than summers.

Cable 9-On par with his father. Cable's been fighting and leading since he was a kid.

Rogue 3-rating her higher than a 5 is just being a fanboy. She's very easily angered, stubborn and headstrong, has no planning ability, and has a poor track record to boot.

Cannonball 7-He's been trained by the best and seems to have learned well. I can easily see him leading his own team.

[podmark]

Storm--9.5
Prodigy--5 (has the possibility to be a nine or higher if he actually wanted to lead)


Completely disagree there. Strategically he's one of the best, and he's always been shown willing to lead when it's needed. He's a Cyclops type rather than a Captain America type. I'd give him at least a 7.

[darknessatnoon]

Completely disagree there. Strategically he's one of the best, and he's always been shown willing to lead when it's needed. He's a Cyclops type rather than a Captain America type. I'd give him at least a 7.

In his future dreams, he chose Sage to assist him. The most important part of leadership is knowing how to delegate.

Prodigy = 10

[worstblogever]

Completely disagree there. Strategically he's one of the best, and he's always been shown willing to lead when it's needed. He's a Cyclops type rather than a Captain America type. I'd give him at least a 7.

Except other than one alternate future... none of the other kids or adults respect him enough to follow him to the bathroom, let alone into battle.

[Aljira]

Cyclops is a 9. (i guess this is an average now)

Storm is a 9 (i agree with the inspiration stuff. such things are not to be underestimated)

Cable's a 9.

Rogue, for me, is an 8 (i have always believed in her capability to lead. she is potentially the next best x-men leader. she's emotionally tough considering all the stuff she had to go thru bec of her powers plus she's unpredictable.)

Havok's an 7.5/8

Surge is a 6/7

Nightcrawler is also a 6/7

[darknessatnoon]

Cyclops is a 9. (i guess this is an average now)

Storm is a 9 (i agree with the inspiration stuff. such things are not to be underestimated)

Cable's a 9.

Rogue, for me, is an 8 (i have always believed in her capability to lead. she is potentially the next best x-men leader. she's emotionally tough considering all the stuff she had to go thru bec of her powers plus she's unpredictable.)

Havok's an 7.5/8

Surge is a 6/7

Nightcrawler is also a 6/7

I find it laughable that you place Surge and Nightcrawler on the same leadership level!

Nightcrawler led Excalibur for years. He also had a successful stint leading the main X-Men team in Storm and Cyclops' absence. I think I am actually offended.

[darknessatnoon]

In fact!
I would venture to say that Nightcrawler is possible the BEST leader the X-Men have ever had, hands down! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Nathan]

as far as X-Men Leaders that i've read

Blue & Gold
Cyclops - 8.5
Storm - 8

Revolutions Teams

Rogue - 5 (she was given the position cause no one else wanted it ,didnt do a great job either)

Gambit - 6 (he coulda gotten 8 but his term as field leader was too short and he did a great job leading a team consisting of Jean ,Storm, Cable and Beast he had to earn their faith in him as leader)

next era

Cyclops - 9 (after his return became a better leader)
Havok - 4 (god dame it Austin)
Storm - 8 (did great with the Xtream team)

Next era
Cyclops - 10 (finaly became the leader he should be)
Havok - 5.5 (still lacking confidence but doing better than his first X-Men term)
Storm - 7 (step down from her Xtreme run)

pre MC
Rogue - 8 (considering here team she did an awesome job)

[Swashbuckler]

Nightcrawler was a great leader of the X-Men. What make's him interesting is that he was always the joker, the fun time guy, and the guy who people went to for moral advice. When Storm freaked out about losing her powers and Cyclops was banging Maddie, Nightcrawler took the lead. He broke his role to become something that the X-Men needed and while he may have been unsure of himself at the start he grew into the role with surprising results.

Eventually when he no longer needed to be the leader he gave the job to Storm again. He then went to Excalibur where he and Captain Britain shared leadership, but as Brian was a drunk it was Kurt who led the way. He made Brian look like a chump, and even got his girlfriend interested in his dashing, daring, ways. Nightcrawler led Excalibur until it's closing. He realized when Brian and Meg wed that the X-Men needed them more. It takes a great leader to admit when his team is needed elsewhere. And when he returned to the X-Men I remember him feeling a bit blue (pun intended) about not being included in big decisions.

Eventually leadership fell to him again, but he had no problem sharing the task with Angel. This is why Nightcrawler is a great leader. He steps up when he needs too, but he's not bossy or automatically an assumed leader like Storm or Cyclops. All Surge ever did was cry. She is not a leader. She's a walking hormone mixed with a girl on her first period. Nightcrawler would cut off her head with his sword and then drink a beer with Wolverine on her bloody corpse.

[creaky]

rwsmith pointed out that Kurt isn't a natural leader, which I agree with, but I think it makes his leadership stints all the more impressive. In Excalibur, he not only tied the team together as a fighting unit, but as a family as well. He dealt with his conflicts with Brian in a mature way, even after Brian flipped out and broke his leg. He was always completely in tune with the wellbeing of everyone on the team, helping them sort out their problems and as a result, you could tell that they would follow him anywhere, not just because they knew he was competent, but because they loved him.
He was great under Casey, too, although in a different fashion, up until the whole Supreme Pontiff business.

Nightcrawler would cut off her head with his sword and then drink a beer with Wolverine on her bloody corpse.

While singing "99 problems".

[jmc247]

Xavier- 9
Cyclops- 9
Polaris- 9
Magneto- 10
Emma- 7
Scarlet Witch- 6.5
Havok- Without confidence problems 6-7, with major confidence problems 3-4
Storm- 8

[princesa]

Storm 9.0

Scott 8.0 (he's getting a bit reckless I think)

Emma 7.5

Kitty 7.5

Rogue 7.0

[HellFrost]

Rogue 3-rating her higher than a 5 is just being a fanboy. She's very easily angered, stubborn and headstrong, has no planning ability, and has a poor track record to boot.

I think that is a little unfair to say. She knew what she was getting into when she chose her team and didn't expect anything less of them.

The other things you've listed are true to a point. When she lead her team she kept herself in check and did pretty damn good by everyone. And when the going got tough, the things you listed as her weaknesses, became her strengths as well.

Am I a huge Rogue fan? Yes, but I look at what she's accomplished and her style of leading and I thought she was fantastic and has potential to possibly be even better, should the need arise and if she was given another shot.

[Old No.7]

How can anyone rate Polaris that high? Seriously? She's never led anything, she's always second fiddle.

Captain America is the template, he's 10, no question. So using him you work it down from there. Cable I can see as a 10, he's led huge armies in the future and nations i.e. Rumekstan (sp) and Providence. Cyclops is a 9, followed by Storm who I'd give a 8 only b/c she's not done crap in the last 10-15 years. After that Xavier with an 8. All others...below.

[lockerogue]

Cyclops- 8.5

Storm- 8

Professor X- 9

Emma Frost- 6.5

Rogue- 7

Dani Moonstar - 7

Cable- 9

Nightcrawler 7.9

[Optic Rage!]

Xavier- 9
Cyclops- 9
Polaris- 9
Magneto- 10
Emma- 7
Scarlet Witch- 6.5
Havok- Without confidence problems 5-6, with major confidence problems 3-4
Storm- 8

Your rating Polaris on the same level as Scott & Xavier and HIGHER then Storm??

Dont you think you might be a tad biased?

[jmc247]

How can anyone rate Polaris that high? Seriously? She's never led anything.

She led the Genoshan nation and the Genoshan Army when Magneto in the long periods where Magneto was injured on Genosha. Certainly behind the scenes even when his spine was cut he was guiding her, but she was effectively in managing the country and army.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/aaaaaa.jpg

Lorna has a problem though like Havok. Her problem is she totally differs to her boyfriend. Lorna's introductory was tited "Queen of Mutants" for a reason. She has the natural ability to led mutantkind, that is if she didn't let the men in her life lead her.

I know many people here didn't read those old Genosha issues, but they put her abilities as a leader on par with Scott or Xavier. But, add a boyfriend into the mix and she is back to totally defering her man.

[worstblogever]

How can anyone rate Polaris that high? Seriously? She's never led anything, she's always second fiddle.

Captain America is the template, he's 10, no question. So using him you work it down from there. Cable I can see as a 10, he's led huge armies in the future and nations i.e. Rumekstan (sp) and Providence. Cyclops is a 9, followed by Storm who I'd give a 8 only b/c she's not done crap in the last 10-15 years. After that Xavier with an 8. All others...below.

While I still think our favorite Polaris fan has overrated her score... she did lead X-Factor while Havok was a part of the Brotherhood, admirably, at that. A lot of people I talked to at the time back in the 90s thought it was funny that she was doing a better job at it than Havok.

But yeah... I'd give her a 7, personally. She still was running to daddy for advice a lot of the time.

[Old No.7]

She led the Genoshan nation and the Genoshan Army when Magneto in the long periods where Magneto was injured on Genosha. Certainly behind the scenes even when his spine was cut he was guiding her, but she was effectively in managing the country and army.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/aaaaaa.jpg

Lorna has a problem though like Havok. Her problem is she totally differs to her boyfriend. Lorna's introductory was tited "Queen of Mutants" for a reason. She has the natural ability to led mutantkind, that is if she didn't let the men in her life lead her.

I know many people here didn't read those old Genosha issues, but they put her abilities as a leader on par with Scott or Xavier. But, add a boyfriend into the mix and she is back to totally defering her man.

I completely disagree that she could lead them, regardless of that one mini, she doesn't inspire imo, she has to introduce herself as Magento's daughter in order to get anyone to listen. She may be a 7, 8 at best, but I think to rank her that high is a stretch.

[jmc247]

I completely disagree that she could lead them, regardless of that one mini, she doesn't inspire imo, she has to introduce herself as Magento's daughter in order to get anyone to listen.

She didn't have to introduce herself as his daughter, she didn't even know about that yet. What she did was she used a image inducer to pretend to be Magneto while he was too ill to lead the nation or the army which was pretty hard and made much harder by the fact the country was in chaos and the middle of a civil war. And, Magneto said she put on an act that he could have hardly done better and that is what politics is an act. Which I suspect is why he made her heir to his nation in the event of his death.


But yeah... I'd give her a 7, personally. She still was running to daddy for advice a lot of the time.

That is part of her handicap. Defering to the male figure in her life for decision making.

That is what makes the character seem like a 6 or a 7 when her natural ability without a significant male figure in her life is I believe much higher.

I gave Havok 3 points higher level then normal without his handicap.

[Bulky Brent]

I thought Surge was an awful Leader. I feel as though Hellion should have never been taken off of the leadership position.

Surge is like a 2 or 3
Hellion is 7 right now with full potential of being a 8 or even a 9. He's a leader. NOT a follower.
Totally agree Surge Never was leadership material

[HeckBoy]

Adults: (based mainly on what I've read, so a lot of "earlier" examples of leadership are kinda lost on me, although I've kept them in consideration)

9 - Cyclops = simply put, he's the best X-leader
7 - Cable = he seems to be able to gather up and lead teams pretty easily, but I personally haven't seen him lead one since the original X-Force
7 - Storm = outside of that sneak attack on the Marauders in Messiah CompleX, I haven't seen her lead much in the last couple years
6 - Cannonball = he sorta led the New Mutants, and was a field leader on X-Force, but not much since then
6 - Havok = better than average, but only b/c he's had so much experience, although not too much success
5 - Angel/Nightcrawler = They've co-lead before (during Austen's run or slightly b4 I don't remember), but are mainly followers
5 - Wolverine = he was meant to lead Alpha Flight (so that's gotta say something about his leadership skills), but he's only really getting tested now w/ X-Force and that's been so-so so far
1-4 - All the other X-Men I can't think of = most haven't been a leader for a reason
1 - Mostly reserved for all the "one-and-done" X-Men (Maggott, Stacy X, etc.)

Students: (this consists of basically anyone from Gen X to the current New/Young X-Men, but they're only being compare with each other, and not w/ the adults)
8 - Prodigy = great tactician and capable leader, but I don't know how his "repowering" will affect him; a leader's only as good as the team he leads, and if that team mutinies, well...
7 - Hellion = charismatic and capable, but since his demotion from squad leader, he's really just fallen into the background
6 - Anole/Match/other Squad leaders = they were picked to lead their squads for a reason
4 - Surge = I'm trying to be as objective as possible here, but I still hate her as leader enough to relegate her to below average leadership level. And technically, she still owns the "highest death rate for people under her watch" among student leaders while she was officially made leader (the Stryker attack victims, Icarus, Wallflower).

[ProfeZZor X]

I would rate Cyclops a solid "8", because he tends to disregard his team mates input and base his decisions on events that affect him personally, whether it's family, or loved ones.

[Old No.7]

I would rate Cyclops a solid "8", because he tends to disregard his team mates input and base his decisions on events that affect him personally, whether it's family, or loved ones.

That's actually the exact opposite of what he does. He has never led w/ her personal feelings, not once, I have to wonder if you've ever read an issue with him in it.

[darknessatnoon]

re: Polaris - I don't think disguising herself as Magneto and addressing a bunch of people with an image inducer counts as "leadership" or charisma.

[Slung]

Cyclops - 9 A great tactician and strategist who knows how to make tough calls and get the job done.

Storm - 9 While Cyclops is a great military leader, Storm is an inspiring figure who did a fantastic job of leading the X-Men throughout the 80's and the Gold Team in the 90's.

Nightcrawler - 8 A strong leader who fought against his natural inclinations and bettered himself as a leader.

Havok - 7 A good leader who can allow emotions to cloud his better judgement.

Emma Frost - 7 She is able to manage both a school and a business. Her cold demeanor and inability to relate to her followers is both an asset and a flaw.

Jean Grey - 6 She seems to prefer the position of 2nd in command, though at times she seems to drive the team from that position

Rogue - 6 At times brash, Rogue has had both successes and failures in leadership positions.

Beast - 6 Logical to a fault, Hank would rather not be in the position of authority

Wolverine - 5 Although a fine tactician, Logan works better as a soldier than a general.

[timbox]

There sure is a lot of Surge talk in this thread, secret fans. I forgive you.

[jmc247]

I don't think disguising herself as Magneto and addressing a bunch of people with an image inducer counts as "leadership" or charisma.

It was more then that if you read those issues.

Leadership is an act as Magneto said. He puts on a suit of armor, makes up a personality, and puts on an act so that people will follow him. Lorna is far better able to put on the act then most X-Men, because she is capable of almost changing her personality to fit the role she is playing.

Being able to become someone and something else that people will follow to their death is all part of leadership. Lorna can get so into the act that she can start to be consumed by the person and personality she is playing. Lorna in her normal Havok's girlfriend personality is far from what I would call a leader. But, she has proven that she can change her personality massively to fit the need.

[Kalen O.]

I OBJECT to the lack of Banshee in this thread! What, he dies TEMPORARILY and alla sudden his previous leadership roles mean diddly?

I mean, okay, so X-Corps wasn't the most brilliantly executed idea ever, or the most brilliant idea for that matter.....and okay, so maybe only about half of his Gen-X team is still alive, let alone powered, but still!

He's at least better than Emma!

When he's sober!

Mostly!


.....Yeah shut up.

[darknessatnoon]

It was more then that if you read those issues.

Leadership is an act as Magneto said. He puts on a suit of armor, makes up a personality, and puts on an act so that people will follow him. Lorna is far better able to put on the act then most X-Men, because she is capable of almost changing her personality to fit the role she is playing.

Being able to become someone and something else that people will follow to their death is all part of leadership. Lorna can get so into the act that she can start to be consumed by the person and personality she is playing. Lorna in her normal Havok's girlfriend personality is far from what I would call a leader. But, she has proven that she can change her personality massively to fit the need.

I did read those issues, actually. And a leader does not "play a role" for their people. A leader get his people to follow his lead.

[jmc247]

And a leader does not "play a role" for their people. A leader get his people to follow his lead.

A leader puts on an act that will get people to follow. Niccolò Machiavelli's perfect prince is an actor that can change acts and faces at will. That is exactly what Magneto does and what great leaders throughout history have done.

And, the best actors are the ones that can become the act as Lorna can. Storm can also become the act, but not to the extent Lorna can.

[darknessatnoon]

A leader puts on an act that will get people to follow. Niccolò Machiavelli's perfect prince is an actor that can change acts and faces at will.

And, the best actors are the ones that can become the act as Lorna can. Storm can also become the act, but not like Lorna can.

The Genoshans were desperate and crazy. They would follow anyone, including, if you will recall, this guy:

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/0/06/Zealot_01.JPG

[Swashbuckler]

And someone who can randomly change personalities is not exactly a good leader. "Hey, lets all do what this schizo does!!!" Lorna isn't a leader. She's a follower to a T. If Magneto hadn't been using her she'd have never been squat in genosha and I doubt she was truly making the calls. The entire there she was high on power anyway. And then she had a mental breakdown because her people were attacked. Her great leadership skills led to Genosha's downfall and Lorna flying around naked and crying for her daddy. She's not a leader, she's an escaped mental patient whose always dependent on someone else to tell her what to do. and currently that someone is Vulcan. "scream Lorna", "cry lorna", "faster Lorna"

[jmc247]

The Genoshans were desperate and crazy. They would follow anyone, including, if you will recall, this guy:

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/0/06/Zealot_01.JPG

The act that extremists and zealots put on can win them a certain number of followers. But, Zealot's act didn't win him over the masses in the country nor did it win him many followers in the Genoshan powered/educated class.

Now if he was able to put on a different act that the powered class liked he might have been much more successful.

And someone who can randomly change personalities is not exactly a good leader. "Hey, lets all do what this schizo does!!!"

There is a huge difference between being able to lead and being a good leader. Being able to get people to give their lives for a cause makes someone a leader, but it doesn't make them a good leader. Hitler had great leadership abilities, I would give them a 10 on this scale, he could put on an act that made millions willing to follow him to hell, but his decision making was of course terrible.

In Lorna's first major appearence in Queen of Mutants (Uncanny 50), she played the role of mutant leader while Magneto (who a year later retconned into a robot) was crippled and she played the role well even then without any leadership training or experience. She has most often over the years though played the role of girlfriend of Havok and Bobby. And, in that role she shapes her personality so she will be followed and loved by one man not thousands or millions. Lorna's personality is fluid and the role she takes on shapes her personality. She could just as easily become the role of a queen or a princess of a nation as she could Havok's girlfriend. All politicians are actors and the ones with the greatest leadership ability are usually the ones that can become the act and yes those people are sometimes crazy.

[Red Lotus]

Cyclops 9.5 he was a close second to Cap
Storm 8
Cable 7
Rogue 6
Wolverine 6
Emma 6
Beast 6
Nightcrawler 6
Gambit 6
Havok 5
Jean 5
Iceman 5

[worstblogever]

To those who give Emma anything over a 7... I want to say, I think she's certainly got her strong points, but at the same time,

She's got a track record of her subordinates getting all fit for pine boxes. (Hellions, Academy X, Genosha, Synch)

The Academy X slaughter is even worse, considering the one way bus ticket was her idea, and Scott didn't like it, but she bullied her way into executing it... and its disasterous results. Check your New X-Men issues, I'm not saying this to hate on her... it's just there.

She's also the same one who tried to mold Firestar into her personal assassin by killing her pet horse (not the best plan) to kill off Selene.

There's firing Dani Moonstar on M-Day, as an excuse to end their ongoing feud as tutors for the Hellions and New Mutants squads...kind of petty, really.

And, she keeps holding personal grudges and making them guide her actions (appointing Surge a team leader, and continuously trying to shoo X-23 away from Hellion, when she seems obsessively protective of him.

I dunno, for her "win" moments, Emma has some big losses. I'd give her a 6, honestly.

[just another user]

What are these Genoshan issues? Is this some mini series?

[worstblogever]

What are these Genoshan issues? Is this some mini series?

Polaris in Magneto: Dark Seduction, unless I'm mistaken, and I've failed to absorb it the first few dozen times I've seen Polaris fans cite it. :redface:

[just another user]

Polaris in Magneto: Dark Seduction, unless I'm mistaken, and I've failed to absorb it the first few dozen times I've seen Polaris fans cite it. :redface:

Oh, is that some out of continuity thing? I've never heard of it :confused:

[worstblogever]

Oh, is that some out of continuity thing? I've never heard of it :confused:

Actually it took place in continuity, and even involved the honest to goodness Avengers. Of course, Polaris still was just doing what Magneto asked of her, and at best... wasn't really "leading" the Genoshans... she was just his figurehead duplicating his powers that he was using like a puppet.

Part of the reason the title was "Dark Seduction". But some fans might interpret the issue differently...

[ElementalKing]

Emma: 1 -- I mean look at how many students under her tutelage have died. It was maybe...7...or was it 8...whatever, you lose count at about 20. So I'm being pretty lenient. But seriously her thing is bad judgement and worrying about her twins popping out of what she calls a blouse rather than her students getting blown up right under her nose. In a nutshell and under that diamond brain, she's wreck.

Surge: 4 -- Come on now, Nori. She cannot lead at all and is in no position. She simply is too emotional. She is emotionally unstable and disturbed which makes her make really bad decisions concerning the team. Look at Messiah Complex. She desires it and looks out for those who need it with a fierce attitude. In a nutshell, she is a wreck too! Anyway, it's not her fault, it's Emma's. And you people wonder why Emma gets a one.

Storm: 8 -- Normally much better and consistent than Cyclops. Her biggest time in the spotlight when she was bossing Wolverine around since Days of Future Past to until Claremont's return to Uncanny. But he had grown some balls and stepped up, she loses to him.

Professor X: 7 -- I don't know. I should give him a eight because he is an extremely good leader and teacher but what messed him up is his secretive nature and he usually has his priorities screwed up.

Cyclops: 9 -- He was alright back in the 80s and the 90s until he got his balls gripped in a chokehold by Emma Frostitute. She has finally let them go and in Unstoppable (whenever it comes out) and Messiah Complex is more badass than ever

Magneto: 10 -- I got to give it to him. He is it. After all, you can be wrong but still be right. But he is it.

Rogue: 8 -- Not too shabby. She knows what she is doing unlike some villains turned heroes. She does what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, where it needs to be done, how it needs to be done and who she needs to get it done. Not so much why. And is a little lackluster on the experience and perhaps judgement wise as well. For a moment there, I thought she was going to beat Cyke. But she was too busy napping.

Havok: 7 -- Ugh, I almost gave this poser a 6 if it hadn't been for that Emperor Vulcan thing, which I might add should've ended months. He is always trying to be his brother and impress him. Be yourself, dude. Plus, he is very indecisive at times.

Wolverine: 7 -- I'm impressed with his X-Force work. He really has what it takes to be a leader. Still not convinced because of his loner tendencies and his devotion to the X-Men team and all. But time will tell.

Beast: 5 -- I don't know about him. This is why he recieves a neutral score. Nowadays, you rarely see him on the battlefields, except in Astonshing which doesn't count since it doesn't come out on time!

Jubilee: 7 -- Wowsers. She has always been the leadership type but a little bit off her rocker but now in her Wondra/New Warrior Days, she is really blowing me away, especially when it comes to training younger heroes and leading them. I wonder if you really can teach an old...how do I say this nicely...dog new tricks.

Prodigy: 6 -- Not bad, not bad at all. Resourceful, confident, emotionally stable **cough, Nori, cough, cough** and intelligent. He has the makings of a leader and the experience from the squad days. He just needs a chance to shine.

Jean Grey: 5 -- Three words. Eve of Destruction. I mean come on. There are plenty of mutants who have been affiliated with the X-Men and having some level of training she couldn't get any of them. Generation X, members of Excalibur, old members of the New Mutants, X-Force or X-Factor. WTF. What were you smoking Jean? She barely got a five, just because of her collected and calm attitude at the climax but her skills at maintaining control were horrible. And I still don't get the point of the story, just as much as I don't get why she had any business leading a very unorganized and untrained team. Maybe if Morrison hadn't of killed her off for shock value, she could've been a good headmistress. More so than Emma!

Nightcrawler: 5 -- Bleh. Just bleh. He led for a while in the 80s after Storm left for Lifedeath. But it was just bleh partly because his team got trashed under his leadership. He led during Austen's Uncanny time but not without constant help which was bleh until he let himself get steamrolled by Havok. And then he led during Claremont's return after Storm left...or was that Bishop? That was bleh too. He had a lot of short of leads. But he hasn't actually led a team in a while. I wonder why...

Cable: 10 -- He has his issues but doesn't every good leader have issues. For Louis XIV it was his height. For Napoleon it was his taste in women. For Carter it was his diplomacy. But for Cable it is a techno-organic alien virus that constantly plagues his system, threatening to consume and kill him if he lets up with his psi-powers at all. But seriously, he has the stuff to do what is right, no matter what people think and no matter the cost and no matter who gets the hell in your way. And the balls. Unlike his father...

Angel: 6 -- Mediocre. He could be better like Magneto and he could be worst like Emma Frost. Being rich is a plus but having your identity known by everyone is a big downer. His only problem is that he is never at the mansion, getting some more experience, because he is too busy in Kentucky screwing Paigy Poo in front of her family in mid-air.

[worstblogever]

Emma: 1 -- I mean look at how many students under her tutelage have died. It was maybe...7...or was it 8...whatever, you lose count at about 20. So I'm being pretty lenient. But seriously her thing is bad judgement and worrying about her twins popping out of what she calls a blouse rather than her students getting blown up right under her nose. In a nutshell and under that diamond brain, she's wreck.

I'd go a little easier on Emma than that, at least. She might have a high body count, but she's also made some bold and brilliant decisons in a crisis. Like at the beginning of "Blinded by the Light" when she got ambushed, and was one of the first to be knocked out by Omega Sentinel's neurotoxin. But she kept her cool, got Sam and Bobby out of there, and ended up coordinating with them the rest of the story to get them to Flint and prevent the Marauders from getting Destiny's diaries. During Messiah CompleX, she and Cyclops put together some good plans of attack, but when she and Dust worked together to beat Exodus in tandem? Nice strategy.

She's sure not on the high end of things, but give her more credit than a 1. I mean, one would be if her own teammates want to lynch her non-stop.

[jmc247]

What are these Genoshan issues?

In Uncanny 379 Lorna comes to Genosha and becomes an Acolyte. In New X-Men 99 several weeks later Bobby and Beast come to Genosha and sees that the mutants on the Island have been depowered, the humans have taken over, and Lorna and Magneto are leading a rebel movement against the humans. In this issue Magneto is badly injured.

Uncanny 380 is the next issue. The X-Men repower mutants, but Magneto being badly injured is out of commission so Polaris has to lead the Genoshan Army while pretending to be Magneto.

Dark Seduction comes after that and Lorna leaves the Island and returns before Eve of Destruction. After Magneto gets his spine cut in Eve of destruction she stays on the Island and helps him maintain order while he is totally crippled to the point where she thinks that she regained his trust. She then steals some of his blood from the lab to get it tested outside of Genosha for paternity. She then comes back to Genosha and the nation gets wiped out soon thereafter.

[darknessatnoon]

To those who give Emma anything over a 7... I want to say, I think she's certainly got her strong points, but at the same time,

She's got a track record of her subordinates getting all fit for pine boxes. (Hellions, Academy X, Genosha, Synch)

The Academy X slaughter is even worse, considering the one way bus ticket was her idea, and Scott didn't like it, but she bullied her way into executing it... and its disasterous results. Check your New X-Men issues, I'm not saying this to hate on her... it's just there.

She's also the same one who tried to mold Firestar into her personal assassin by killing her pet horse (not the best plan) to kill off Selene.

There's firing Dani Moonstar on M-Day, as an excuse to end their ongoing feud as tutors for the Hellions and New Mutants squads...kind of petty, really.

And, she keeps holding personal grudges and making them guide her actions (appointing Surge a team leader, and continuously trying to shoo X-23 away from Hellion, when she seems obsessively protective of him.

I dunno, for her "win" moments, Emma has some big losses. I'd give her a 6, honestly.

Wuh Wuh Wuh ... WAIT A SECOND HERE!

Are you honestly going to blame Emma for sacrificing cannon fodder? She is a Queen, and the Hellions, the New X-Men & Danielle Moonstar mere pawns.

[f4faith]

A "10" is stated to be competent enough to lead a nation. Cyclops is rated as a solid 9. I wouldn't say Rogue is a 9. 6 or 7 at best.

Since when has Cyclops ever shown the ability to lead a country? Heck he can hardly lead a large team outside of battle. A small army maybe at best and that's only on the field not off. He's as bad or worse than Emma off the field. He's the one who was with her when many of the students died. It was his leadership too. And if Decimation and the stupid idea of putting all mutants on the front lawn is any example, he's got no clue about running a country. People WAY OVER esitmate the guy based on what Marvel says he is not how well he's performed.

He'd barely be a solid 7 in my opinion. Storm on the other hand is an 8. There is no 10 but I'd still put Xavier at a 8 or 9. It's one thing to be a field leader, it's a whole other to create and inspire a dream.

[HellFrost]

Totally agree Surge Never was leadership material
I don't understand the purpose of placing her in charge only show her fail. And Fail she did. The writers did wonders for the previously background characters, but for the ones who were the stars, they committed total character homicide. Julian needs to grow a pair and remember where he comes from and who he used to be. Surge needs to start taking some medication that's actually been prescribed to her by a professional and control the anger management problem she's suffering from. Or hit the gym. Endorphins make you happy.
Cyclops - 9 A great tactician and strategist who knows how to make tough calls and get the job done.

Storm - 9 While Cyclops is a great military leader, Storm is an inspiring figure who did a fantastic job of leading the X-Men throughout the 80's and the Gold Team in the 90's.

Nightcrawler - 8 A strong leader who fought against his natural inclinations and bettered himself as a leader.

Havok - 7 A good leader who can allow emotions to cloud his better judgement.

Emma Frost - 7 She is able to manage both a school and a business. Her cold demeanor and inability to relate to her followers is both an asset and a flaw.

Jean Grey - 6 She seems to prefer the position of 2nd in command, though at times she seems to drive the team from that position

Rogue - 6 At times brash, Rogue has had both successes and failures in leadership positions.

Beast - 6 Logical to a fault, Hank would rather not be in the position of authority

Wolverine - 5 Although a fine tactician, Logan works better as a soldier than a general.
While I don't agree with the exact numbering (Jean for example who I believe is at an equal level as Emma in terms of Ranking) I can't help but nod along with your reasonings. They make perfect sense to me.
There sure is a lot of Surge talk in this thread, secret fans. I forgive you.
Aw! You're cute.:smile:

[pryde15]

Since when has Cyclops ever shown the ability to lead a country? Heck he can hardly lead a large team outside of battle. A small army maybe at best and that's only on the field not off. He's as bad or worse than Emma off the field.

He'd barely be a solid 7 in my opinion. Storm on the other hand is an 8 or 9.

I put him as a 9, as per the group consensus up to that point.

Anyway looking at this thread, I think it is going to be riddled with bias, and it is already showing signs of it.

[worstblogever]

Wuh Wuh Wuh ... WAIT A SECOND HERE!

Are you honestly going to blame Emma for sacrificing cannon fodder? She is a Queen, and the Hellions, the New X-Men & Danielle Moonstar mere pawns.

The White Queen, upon sacrificing her pawns in the Hellions still didn't sacrifice them to capture ANYTHING of Fitzroy's. So don't act like that was part of her plan. Emma's got bad enough PR as it is.

[worstblogever]

I put him as a 9, as per the group consensus up to that point.

Anyway looking at this thread, I think it is going to be riddle with bias, and it is already showing signs of it.

It was destined for it. I try to be the guy with the middling view... :frown:

[darknessatnoon]

The White Queen, upon sacrificing her pawns in the Hellions still didn't sacrifice them to capture ANYTHING of Fitzroy's. So don't act like that was part of her plan. Emma's got bad enough PR as it is.

They would be alive if that nosy Jean Grey hadn't interfered.

[worstblogever]

They would be alive if that nosy Jean Grey hadn't interfered.

dn@n... I'm so not biting on that one. :biggrin:

[Hakael]

Out of the kids, Hellions is easily the best leader. The only one who even compares is David, and he's been known to get as far away from field leadership as he can whenever he's offered the role.

Surge was a horrible leader, and I think that was the point. Emma made the choice to get back at Julian for disobeying her. Nori buckled under the pressure numerous times... even Victor had a better leadership showing than she did during Quest for Magik.

NXM:

Hellion: 8
Prodigy: 7 (would be a 9 if he wanted to lead)
Anole: 6
Nori: 3 (couple of good speeches, but she never handled the role well)

Out of the rest of the X-characters:

Cyclops: 9
Xavier: 9
Emma: 4 (doesn't crumble under pressure, she just makes BAD choices)
Banshee: 8
Beast: 6
Nightcrawler: 8
Rogue: 7
Storm: 8
Wolverine: 6
Cannonball: 7
Cable: 9
Captain Britain: 8
Pete Wisdom: 7
Jubilee: 5 (making some strides as Wondra)
Havok: 6 (would be higher if he wasn't brainwashed so easily)
Madrox: 6 (awesome, but doesn't exactly inspire confidence with his issues)
Forge: 6


The only "10" in Marvel for leadership is Cap.

[jmc247]

Of course, Polaris still was just doing what Magneto asked of her, and at best... wasn't really "leading" the Genoshans... she was just his figurehead duplicating his powers that he was using like a puppet.

That was certainly true of Dark Seduction as a series. She was a figurehead/tool for Magneto and he was clearly the leader. But, I was talking about the times where she had to basically take over control of the nation like when Wolverine cut his spine or when he was badly injured by a robot.

The same thing happened in Lorna's first appearence in the comics. Magneto (a year later retconned into a robot) was crippled by the X-Men and she had to take over leadership of his organization and keep his followers in line.

All three times she still got advice from Magneto, but she was running the show in his place.

[Swashbuckler]

That was certainly true of Dark Seduction as a series. She was a figurehead/tool for Magneto and he was clearly the leader. But, I was talking about the times where she had to basically take over control of the nation like when Wolverine cut his spine or he was badly injured by a robot which were before and after Dark Seduction.

The same thing happened in Lorna's first appearence in the comics. Magneto (a year later retconned into a robot) was crippled by the X-Men and she had to take over leadership of his organization and keep his followers in line.

All three times she still got advice from Magneto, but she was running the show in his place.

SHE WAS HIS PUPPET!!! NONE OF THE DECISIONS WERE TRUELY HERS! really, she was just following another man, like Havok. It's all she does, she's an idiot who can't live on her own. Remember her crying over Havok's costume prior to The Twelve? She's a total looney toon. She gets controlled by Magneto periodically and does his bidding. She's a pawn. He speaks for her. Her power may as well be to have a hole in her back for people to stick their hand in and take control. She's a puppet, and psycho bitch, and little more.

[just another user]

SHE WAS HIS PUPPET!!! NONE OF THE DECISIONS WERE TRUELY HERS! really, she was just following another man, like Havok. It's all she does, she's an idiot who can't live on her own. Remember her crying over Havok's costume prior to The Twelve? She's a total looney toon. She gets controlled by Magneto periodically and does his bidding. She's a pawn. He speaks for her. Her power may as well be to have a hole in her back for people to stick their hand in and take control. She's a puppet, and psycho bitch, and little more.

I like her hair

[Swashbuckler]

I like her hair

Me too! It's unique.

[worstblogever]

That was certainly true of Dark Seduction as a series. She was a figurehead/tool for Magneto and he was clearly the leader. But, I was talking about the times where she had to basically take over control of the nation like when Wolverine cut his spine or when he was badly injured by a robot.

The same thing happened in Lorna's first appearence in the comics. Magneto (a year later retconned into a robot) was crippled by the X-Men and she had to take over leadership of his organization and keep his followers in line.

All three times she still got advice from Magneto, but she was running the show in his place.

If she's such a good leader... why in every time she's taken over for Magneto do the rest of his followers... like Toad, Exodus, or the other members of the Brotherhood or Acolytes always flock right back under the cape of... Magneto? If she's such a good leader, you'd think they'd all stick with her, and not the guy who keeps losing to the X-Men.

Face it, she's not much better than Magneto. And he's sure botched his fair share of things. Shoot, while we were talking another orbiting base of his fell outta the sky and half his followers were killed again. Don't worry, he'll get more.

Long before Polaris will without the use of an image inducer.

[just another user]

Me too! It's unique.

Well, apart from Agent Brand

[HellFrost]

To those who give Emma anything over a 7... I want to say, I think she's certainly got her strong points, but at the same time,

She's got a track record of her subordinates getting all fit for pine boxes. (Hellions, Academy X, Genosha, Synch)
We can't really hold Academy X, and Synch against her.. and Especially not Genosha. For Synch, besides the fact that his death really didn't make any kind of sense, he died being a hero because her sister was pure evil. Emma new her sister wasn't a saint, but she most certainly didn't believe that her own sister could actually be crueler than she was. I don't blame her for his death. I blame Adrienne and plot induced stupidity.

Genosha can NOT count against her because she was never the target. This is just a case of wrong place at the wrong time.

The Hellions... well considering the fact that they served as her own version of the X-Men and they only died because there was a bounty on all their heads, but especially because they were defending their Queen. Their mentor. They were younger than the actual X-Men (at the time) and fought in a fight the same way any X-man would.

The Academy X slaughter is even worse, considering the one way bus ticket was her idea, and Scott didn't like it, but she bullied her way into executing it... and its disasterous results. Check your New X-Men issues, I'm not saying this to hate on her... it's just there.

Academy X could most certainly be argued, but in all reality, whether Stryker new because Icarus told him or because Nimrod let him know, how were any of them supposed to know what was going to happen. She wanted them out of harms way and did it at a time and in a way she thought would be safe and if it weren't for a little snitch among them (or Nimrod respectively) it would have worked flawlessly. It wasn't a bad plan.

She's also the same one who tried to mold Firestar into her personal assassin by killing her pet horse (not the best plan) to kill off Selene.
Well... does this really count in the grand scheme of things? hehe

There's firing Dani Moonstar on M-Day, as an excuse to end their ongoing feud as tutors for the Hellions and New Mutants squads...kind of petty, really.
Agreed.


And, she keeps holding personal grudges and making them guide her actions (appointing Surge a team leader, and continuously trying to shoo X-23 away from Hellion, when she seems obsessively protective of him.
This was completely out of character. Kyle and Yost did a surprisingly good job with Emma's characterization except for here. But since this is official continuity, yeah, it was incredibly stupid on her part and she got lucky.
I dunno, for her "win" moments, Emma has some big losses. I'd give her a 6, honestly.
A fair number.

[pryde15]

I like her hair

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k303/cpsm1092/untitled-2.jpg

:confused:

[jmc247]

SHE WAS HIS PUPPET!!! NONE OF THE DECISIONS WERE TRUELY HERS! really, she was just following another man, like Havok. It's all she does, she's an idiot who can't live on her own. Remember her crying over Havok's costume prior to The Twelve? She's a total looney toon.

She's a puppet, and psycho btich, and little more.

Leadership ability is the ability to get others to do stuff. Ronald Reagan didn't come up with his own policies. But, he was a very good talker and very good at making others execute the policies and the public to support the policies even though he didn't think them up.

No Lorna currently is not a great strategist, but she does have great leadership abilities. Magneto is a good strategist with great leadership abilities.

If she's such a good leader... why in every time she's taken over for Magneto do the rest of his followers... like Toad, Exodus, or the other members of the Brotherhood or Acolytes always flock right back under the cape of... Magneto?

She doesn't want to be leader. That isn't the same as not having leadership abilities. Toad was on his knees in Uncanny 443 and ready to serve her along with the rest of the Genoshan survivors, but she didn't want to lead them. She tends to lead only when she is forced into it. I wouldn't call her a 'great leader', but I would say she had great leadership abilties.

[Flameworthy]

I think people are giving Havok too much credit. He should not be greater than a 4 at best. Hell, if EV was any indication of his leadership skills then there's no way I'd want to be on his team. His stint on X-Factor doesn't really help either since, he defected so he could go under cover and nearly killed his lover and teammate while he was at it.

[Swashbuckler]

But the things she gets them to do aren't her words. They aren't her desires. A leader is someone who takes you to a new place, in a new direction. Who maintains direction and control. Lorna doesn't do that. She just acts as magneto's puppet. She doesn't make ANY decisions. A leader has to be able to make decisions. They have to be able to hold their wieght WITHOUT someone telling them what to do. She can't do that.

[worstblogever]

She tends to lead only when she is forced into it. I wouldn't call her a 'great leader', but I would say she had great leadership abilties.

Yeah, and those did a great job of getting her in a Shi'ar prison cell alongside the rest of the Starjammers. I'm sure she'll use her charismatic powers over the guards to get them to revolt against Vulcan, too.

No way in hell is she an 9, or even an 8. A solid 7, I'd give her. When she WANTS to lead, on that rare occasion.

[lockerogue]

But the things she gets them to do aren't her words. They aren't her desires. A leader is someone who takes you to a new place, in a new direction. Who maintains direction and control. Lorna doesn't do that. She just acts as magneto's puppet. She doesn't make ANY decisions. A leader has to be able to make decisions. They have to be able to hold their wieght WITHOUT someone telling them what to do. She can't do that.

To be a bit fair to Polaris. We haven't seen whether see can lead or not without someone holding her hand during the process. Until there is a writer who wants to show that she can lead I somewhat agree with your statement.

[jmc247]

A leader is someone who takes you to a new place, in a new direction.

Leaders get others to support and execute a policy, they don't have to make a policy. If the policy is good or not is a different question.

Having leadership ability doesn't require you to be a great strategist. In fact a leader can take all their idea's from someone else. All that matters is that the leader gets others to follow them and execute the idea's or policy.

If Cyke took all his idea's from Emma, he would have no less leadership ability then he does today. All that matters is he can get others to follow him and execute those ideas.

Yeah, and those did a great job of getting her in a Shi'ar prison cell alongside the rest of the Starjammers.

Making policy or military screw ups doesn't have any bearing on leadership ability. Hitler as I said before had a 10 for leadership ability. But, he made some of the most boneheaded military decisions of the 20th century. You don't have to have good idea's to have leadership ability only that you can get others to execute those ideas.

Saddam Hussein had great leadership ability, that doesn't mean he wasn't a bone headed screw up who like Hitler drove his nation into the ground. One can have great leadership abilities and be a really really s**t leader. If you combine great leadership ability and a intelligent leader you get a Julius Caesar, if you combine great leadership ability and a dumb leader you get Mussolini.

[timbox]

Surge: 10
Cable: 11
Nick Fury: 12


suck it

[Swashbuckler]

If Cyke took all his idea's from Emma, he would have no less leadership ability then he does today. All that matters is he can get others to follow him and execute those ideas.

But Cyclops has led on his own before, without using other's orders. Polaris has not. She is not a leader. A leader doesn't need someone else pulling the strings. Crappy leaders may let soemone else always tell them what to do, but a good leader will have his own plan. They'll be able to function as a single unit. Not a duo, like ALL of Polaris's Magneto moments have. I mean, you don't see her being leaderly away from Magneto. Because she can't be. She isn't a leader.

[jmc247]

But Cyclops has led on his own before, without using other's orders. Polaris has not. She is not a leader.

You think in order to have leadership ability you have to come up with your own ideas. I don't.

Lorna was taking advice from Magneto when he was crippled, but she wasn't taking direct orders from him.

[Slung]

But Cyclops has led on his own before, without using other's orders. Polaris has not. She is not a leader. A leader doesn't need someone else pulling the strings. Crappy leaders may let soemone else always tell them what to do, but a good leader will have his own plan. They'll be able to function as a single unit. Not a duo, like ALL of Polaris's Magneto moments have. I mean, you don't see her being leaderly away from Magneto. Because she can't be. She isn't a leader.

Well, Polaris did lead X-Factor (and arguably more successful than Alex EVER did). So she is a leader.

[Swashbuckler]

You think in order to have leadership ability you have to come up with your own ideas. I don't.

Lorna was taking advice from Magneto when he was crippled, but she wasn't taking direct orders from him.

You're as crazy as she is. You can't not have your own ideas and be a leader. You may have the same ideas, but she never thought of anything she influenced other to do. Yes, people follow her, but it has nothing to do with her. You can replace her with ANYONE taking orders from Magneto and you get the same scene. People following Lorna who is doing as Magneto wants her to = people following Mags, not Lorna. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Leirus]

Um. I would say that between the X-Men we can find "natural" leaders, between 10 and 8. This does not mind necessary that they are good leaders, but that they have carism enough to drawn the people around

Xavier & Magneto: Leaders of the two flips of the dream

Cyclops: pretty much educated by Xavier to fill the role, the mentions to his "strategic mind" are common

Storm: Would do whatever it takes to guide her group, her family, and now his nation. She changed herself and her whole world to be the X-men´s leader (remember punk-mohawk Storm?)

Danielle Moonstar: Althought Xavier gave the field leader title first to Karma and then to Cannonball, she seized the power by sheer charism, and her companions recognized her as a coleader

Emma Frost: She pretty much takes possesion of anything that comes near her. The HC, The Massatchusets Academy, Gen-X, The Xavier Academy, The X-Men. She started to order Wolverine around when she had been merely a week in the X-Men

Kitty Pryde: Were she not stuck in her rol of teenager-young woman, she would have been already the lead of a team.

Hellion and Windancer: but I reserve judgament, we did not see that much, and they were too young then

between not X-Men: Callisto, Masque, Shawn, Mystique


We must take into account that while the adult characters have got plenty of time to shine, the younger ones have had no the chance. They float around 8-7

We find also characters with some leadership traits, but without any interesy in leading anything

Beast: he has too much in his mind and has too much to do to being a leader. He his happy being a reliable and resourceful second in command

Sean Cassidy: lots of experience an tactical ability, 0 interest in the role. He was happy with the teacher role in Gen-X

Forge: Occasional leader, but not much interest in the whole thing

Karma: she was the first leader of the New Mutants, after all, but never demonstarte any interest in the role.

Polaris: Why to lead, when she can hide behind Alex? I have always had the feeling that she could be a better leader than he is, though.

Jean: more or less the same than Polaris. She was pretty much in charge of the Academy in NXM, and the charge suited her very well.

Between 8 and 6, characters who did not want to be leaders but were forced into the role and had to grown, with more or less suceed, to be ones. They have struggled to keep the leadership and have seen their position challenged

Rogue: the surprise leader, her somewhat crazed tactical vision surprised to more than one (The children of the Vault are still wondering what happened)

Cannonball: He made all that he could to be a good leader, but when he became and X-Man, this was all but forgotten

Siryn: Second leader of X-Force, had some confidence problems when Dani came back

Surge: did not want the position, used an angry stile of leadership and had not time to learn, but even cyclops and Emma recognized her latent abilities

Havock: The troubled leader: we have talked already about his cicles of greatness and depression.

Sunspot: Not much of a leader, but he is somehow leading the HC

Wolverine: A lone wolf, does not want the responsability, but can not avoid it any longer

Nightcrawler: see Excalibur to more reference

Below 6, characters without leadership traits, fighters, teamplayers and loners

[Omega Alpha]

A 6 or a 7 should be completely capable of leading an X-team, an 8 or a 9 we are talking about the ability to lead a much larger group like a nation or an army, a 10 would be capable of leading a race or a planet.

In that sense, I would rate Cable as a 10, since he has actually led a few nations. Cyclops is a 9, with potential to reach 10. Storm would be an 8, and everyone else 7 at best, except for Mags, which doesn't reach 10 because, while he has led a nation and a race, his success at it is VERY debatable.

Oh, and Polaris would be a 6 at best.

[Leirus]

Not exactly true. They were all fit to do her bidding right after Planet X when she returned to Genosha and recreated the Magneto Memorial statue when Wolverine sliced it up.

All? All the six of the remaining genoshans?

But yep, I think you are right... Lorna should make something with her heritage and leadership abilities

[Slung]

I don't understand why so many people want to rate Storm under Cyclops. I mean, I know Scott's en vogue this season, but Storm has leadership abilities that Cyclops doesn't and vice versa. I don't think anyone can say one or the other is better.

Also, as a Jean fan, I just want to say that she has the potential to be a fantastic leader - we've seen her do it before (head of Xavier's, Eve of Destruction where she owned Magneto, and Revolution where she pretended that Gambit was in charge and then just ordered everyone around). Besides, behind every great man is a woman and Jean was that woman for Scott for years.

[Leirus]

I don't understand why so many people want to rate Storm under Cyclops. I mean, I know Scott's en vogue this season, but Storm has leadership abilities that Cyclops doesn't and vice versa. I don't think anyone can say one or the other is better.

Also, as a Jean fan, I just want to say that she has the potential to be a fantastic leader - we've seen her do it before (head of Xavier's, Eve of Destruction where she owned Magneto, and Revolution where she pretended that Gambit was in charge and then just ordered everyone around). Besides, behind every great man is a woman and Jean was that woman for Scott for years.

I do not rate Storm under Cyclops, and I even would say she is better in the moral sense. I do not like the Purifiers killer spree and I do not think Storm would have approved. The X-Men have members powerful enought to stop the Purifiers without needing to dice and slice them. (A combo Iceman-Storm-Whithe Queen for example)

I agree about Jean. It seems the X-Men "perfect brides" Jean and Lorna are reduced to be the woman behind. Ugh. I hate that sentence.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't understand why so many people want to rate Storm under Cyclops. I mean, I know Scott's en vogue this season, but Storm has leadership abilities that Cyclops doesn't and vice versa. I don't think anyone can say one or the other is better.

Storm, in part by choice, in part for other reasons, has never done, as an X-man, what Cyke is doing in recent years, or even before. She has only led the X-men as a single team and doing missions and the like, never taking on the X-men as a whole while also managing an entire school (or even showing great interest in teaching), 200 teams and 827 students, working for the image of mutantkind (except now she's married to T'challa, but then not as an X-woman, and since she has to be Wakanda's Queen, it's not her priority) as a whole, setting her own vision for all mutants, etc. Also, she didn't had to deal with a situation remotely like M-Day, but then again, neither has Xavier.

[Leirus]

Storm, in part by choice, in part for other reasons, has never done, as an X-man, what Cyke is doing in recent years, or even before. She has only led the X-men as a single team and doing missions and the like, never taking on the X-men as a whole while also managing an entire school (or even showing great interest in teaching), 200 teams and 827 students, working for the image of mutantkind (except now she's married to T'challa, but then not as an X-woman, and since she has to be Wakanda's Queen, it's not her priority) as a whole, setting her own vision for all mutants, etc. Also, she didn't had to deal with a situation remotely like M-Day, but then again, neither has Xavier.

Well, it was brief, but she was the leader of the X.S.E., and negotiated with world leaders to achieve it...

[Teh m0nk3y]

Cable: 10. Nate has done alot of stuff as a soldier. On more than one occasion he led nations.
Cyclops: 09. The guy could become a 10.
Forge:06. Havok went off the grid, so Forge did the best he could during his X-Factor tenure.
Surge:03. Girl just didn't have what it takes.
Rogue:06.
Storm: 08.5
Xavier:08
Havok:06
Nightcrawler:06
Emma Frost:06

[mimic_616]

Mimic (Exiles): 10

With his leadership he brought the most peace between mutant and humans in any reality, as it says in Exiles #1 :wink:

[Pro]

Captain America is a 10.

Even after Civil War?

"Aw guys .. (sobs) .. look at what we done. Let's all go to jail instead of win this conflict ..".

:p

[jmc247]

I agree about Jean. It seems the X-Men "perfect brides" Jean and Lorna are reduced to be the woman behind. Ugh. I hate that sentence.

When Jean and Lorna are written as usual as the women behind Cyke or Havok they don't appear as leaders and simply differ to their man so its no suprise that this image of them gets stuck in people's minds given that is over the years it is how they are shown the majority of the time. But, as far as potental, they have shown (in the times they weren't behind their boyfriend) far greater leadership abilities and potental. But, that happens so infrequently it is seen by many as aberations not their normal ability.

[worstblogever]

Not exactly true. They were all fit to do her bidding right after Planet X when she returned to Genosha and recreated the Magneto Memorial statue when Wolverine sliced it up.

Storm is the best leader in X-history. I loved the team when she was in charge. Scott being Captain America 2.0 with a miltant stance today? Fake. Phony. Boring.

What's everyone's leadership ranking on guys like Sebastian Shaw and Sinister?

Shaw doesn't lead as much as he manipulates. He's not been proven to be any kind of battlefield tactician (as he had no impact on any of the strategy of the fight with Nimrod where Harry Leland died, save being used as a impact projectile :biggrin: ). As for leading the Hellfire Club, none of the Inner Circle seem to really follow him, so much as they want to be close enough to usurp him. Other than Tessa of course. Other than a plot to make Jean Grey Black Queen (that had disasterous results) where he had the sense to get intel, and be ready for the X-Men, I think he's not the best. Honestly, I'd give Shaw a 5 or a 6, and that's just for being a manipulative bastard.

Sinister... well... when you look at the battlefield plans he lays out, when given time, he's pretty impressive. "Blinded by the Light" alone was nearly a masterstroke for him, considering the Marauders got every time-traveler, and precognitive mutant whacked, save for Blindfold (who had to nearly kill herself). His only mistake there was outsourcing her assassination to Exodus, who's too overconfident and has some vestiges of knightly honor (a stretch, I'll admit) not to further desecrate Blindfold's "corpse". But to be smart enough to move on all fronts, and plan the ambush of the X-Men like he did? Think about his actions with the Mutant Massacre. Even through most of "Messiah CompleX", he seemed a step ahead of the game. Once he died, the Marauders couldn't get out of their way enough to beat down students. That shows you how important his presence as a leader is.

However, Sinister loses BIG points for one thing... "Turning your back on Mystique." And, the fact that he's immortal means, he often uses time against his foes whenever possible. Because he's got tons... and tons of backup clones of his men, and apparently himself. I'd have to give Sinister either a 7 at lowest, but an eight at highest.

[worstblogever]

Take away the tactical leverage and measure Shaw off his run as leader of the Inner Circle and Shaw Industries. He's no sort of pushover. And I see the Mystique thing with Essex as major jobbing. Sinister has never shown a history of allowing one like Mystique to invade his space and dictate the result of one of his plans.

When you factor in the fact that Shaw might only be successful because of a magical pact his ancestor made though... (See X-Men: Hellfire Club #1 for more details...)

I'd give Shaw the 6 though, based off the business acumen. But remember, he also had Selene come in and act like she owned the Hellfire Club, nearly suffocating him back in the day, and he never did figure out a way to be rid of her. Add in that he let Sat-Yr-9 and Viper... a crazy nihilist who aims nukes at London... literally a Viper in the nest join? That his old ally... Donald Pierce managed to take him by surprise, and injure him bad enough that he had to leave leadership with Sunspot, and he still hasn't reclaimed it? it's hard to give Shaw more than a 6. based off all this.

[Omega Alpha]

Even after Civil War?

"Aw guys .. (sobs) .. look at what we done. Let's all go to jail instead of win this conflict ..".

:p

Civil War Cap. America= -732

Well, it was brief, but she was the leader of the X.S.E., and negotiated with world leaders to achieve it...

Yeah, world leaders would listen to a mutant they would have no way of knowing before, because she has indomitable will. For that and others, I won't be buying any book written by Claremont again...:rolleyes:

[worstblogever]

Now, two interesting people to look at effective leaders as villains are players in X-Force right now...

Bastion- Sure, there's no passion in anything he does, but he still calcuates everything, and has factored in extraterrestrials as a resource to use to win his battle against mutants. He's not going to inspire fear, or give a damn about morale though. But as an icon of fear? He's got people who have been crazy enough to follow him, twice. Using the Nimrod tech to be an ultimate strategist, though... including Prime Sentinels back in the day... I'd give him a 8, and only so low because of the lack of emotion he has to motivate others.

William Stryker- Possibly no better villain on the stump to get fanatics going, perhaps with the exception of Magneto. And twice we've seen him put together attack forces using simple military weaponry from ambush with frightening efficiency. Once on Storm, Prof. X, and Cyclops in GLMK, and the other time being the dreaded bus attack. He's inspiring enough that he can get Lady Deathstrike on speed dial, too. Risman, Mary, the rest of the Purifiers will follow him to the ends of the Earth, and even though they don't have powers... they manage to hold their own pretty well. Using Nimrod's files to plan ways to counteract a war between humans and mutants? Also, amazing use of resources. I'd give him a 9. Seriously.

[just another user]

Never knew how Sunspot took all that time ago. They let Shaw get punked out like that? Damn shame.

You are Erik Lensherr and I claim my £10

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Cable, Mags, Cyke, Storm and Chuck are pretty much the only ones worthy of an 8+ out of ten ,among the "regulars" really...

[psychic_therapy]

Of the ones I know of having leadership experience... it'd be difficult to rate those without any.

Cyclops - 9.5
Storm - 9.0
Emma - 7.5
Surge - 7.5
Madrox - 7.0
Prodigy - 6.5
Hellion - 6.5
Wolverine - 6.0
Rogue 5.0

[Slung]

Of the ones I know of having leadership experience... it'd be difficult to rate those without any.

Cyclops - 9.5
Storm - 9.0
Emma - 7.5
Surge - 7.5
Madrox - 7.0
Prodigy - 6.5
Hellion - 6.5
Wolverine - 6.0
Rogue 5.0

Are you just resurrecting all the old threads?

[x_goalkeeper]

Professor X
Cyclops
Storm
Emma
Surge
Madrox
Cannonball
Prodigy
Wolverine
Hellion
Rogue

in order of who is best to worst of leaders

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Rogue is a ten "and not only in leadership". Everyone else is a five

[Greg Anderson]

We need another X-Men run with Rogue leading a mix-match team with Carey on writing and Bachalo and Ramos rotating arcs.

[Ratwedge]

Cyclops: Seriously this doesn't even need to be debated why he is number 1.

Havok: Got enough chops to make it to the top position. I dont think he would make a good Commander in Chief but a team leader he would be just as good as Cyclops.

Storm: Hell yes, she has everything. Charisma and good judgment. Cyclops beats her because he is the superior Top Leader, while Storm makes the best General, able to command the respect of any X-Man instantly above all others. Sure Emma is 2IC, but Storms the one they will follow into hell. Personally, she should have been the ones teaching the kids not Emma.

Madrox: He can either be really awesome or really stupid. He always comes through at the end but still fails at life but thats why we love him. Seriously sometimes hes "Just as Planned" other times hes screaming out useless crap.

Wolverine: Hes good at what he does but other than that he can be a bit screwed up. I find he works better as a leader when hes working for someone as a leader rather than Commander in Chief. Hes like the Veteran Sargent of the X-Men, experienced enough to have an opinion on matters but the first guy to jump onto the beach.

Cannonball: Has great Potential.

Rogue: Total Wild Card when it comes to leadership. Still think its a bit forced as she is pretty much screwed in the head and always has her crap fail and bite someone in the ass.

Surge: Hate her whining. Its like she needs to to validate her opinions about life and her problems by screaming at others. While Emma claimed she would protect the children from her, its often others like Hellion or Prodigy who do the real work. Surge is let down by the fact she is so bloody emotional and lacks the tactical and strategic skills of Prodigy to make up for it.

Hellion: Far as Charisma goes this guy has it in spades, I find he works best as a foil for Prodigy more than Surge. His self confidence took a lot before it started chipping but he believes in himself and always fights hard for his friends no matter the consequences. Not only that but he seems to be the heart of the NXM.

Prodigy: He has the greatest potential in terms of leadership. He is always the first to spot the patterns on a battlefield or off it, its a testament to his tactical abilities that when he calls a play for the NXM everyone obeys without question, even Hellion. Not only that unlike the other he is always cool under pressure, he doesn't let his emotions cloud his judgment like Hellion and Surge. His greatest weakness isnt that he is human but the fact he believes that because he is human that he is weak.

[Canemacar]

It's been a while, so I'll try another take at ranking the leaders.

Cyclops: 8.5. He's taken a hit since last time. It's one thing to resort to questionable tactics, but roping children who came to you to get away from that life into it, then hiding all this from your supporters is just asking for a rebellion. Once again I would say he's got the technical aspects down pat, but could use some work in the personal side of the job.

Storm: 8. Nothing has really changed my opinion of her since last time. She's still a very charismatic leader.

Cable: 9. No change. He's fully capable both as a field leader and as the head of a social order as he demonstrated in providence.

Rogue: 3. Still a very bad leader. Her run was entertaining, but that don't make it good.

Cannonball: 8. He made some hard descisions in MC. Cable did a good job shaping him to be next in command.

Now, to expand the list somewhat:

Magneto: 10. Easily one of the best. He's probably the best "badguy" leader in the marvel universe. Not only has he been the head of a nation, a terrorist organization, and schoolmaster, but he's had a pseudo-religion formed around him. not much can top "mutant jesus" when you're talking cult of personality.

Sinister: 2. This one may come as a surprise. He's easily one of the most devious people around, but planning doesn't neccesarily translate into leadership abilities. He has no sense of how to attract people and organize them; that he outsources to people like Gambit and Scalphunter. Sinister prefers obiedient slaves, not followers.

Apocalypse: 6.5. An effective warlord, with millenia of experience. He's led countless armies on countless campaigns. It's a shame he can't actually win one, or keep his henchmen from betraying him though.

[pariah-1972]

Cyclops is a 9 in my book,Wolverine an 8 Cable maybe a 9.5 or perhaps close to a 10.

Xavier is hard to say cause he has made so many mistakes and then obsesses about them but when he feels like it he can be a great team leader even out in the field but i wouldn't put him near Cyclops.


Rogue is a 6 for effort on trying to reform criminals even tho she should have known that Mystique and Sabretooth can't be trusted to do anything right and would back stab there own mother if they felt like it.

Kitty Pryde did a good job that one time going after Thunderbird mach 2.


Storm: wow this is a hard one mostly cause she has fucked up so royally and is not good at following on things through especially on her leadership with the Morlocks.
Instead she abdicated to Callisto, But she sincerely regrets that decision and besides if you were a goddess would you wanna sit around the sewers taking care of a bunch of ugly mutants?

but she did lead the X-men and did a good job especially being powerless so i would say maybe an 7.5 or 8.