Alpha Flight from the Beginning

[Nevets F]

I kinda always felt the same way.

I hope David gets to continue Alpha from the beginning soon. ;) This is actually the only thread I visit on CBR now.

[david r]

I always thought that Heather was put in the role more symbolically. Not to be a field leader. It didn't really turn out that way, but in truth, with as great as it turned out, I am totally ok with suspending my belief a little. :)

I hope you're right. I don't want to see Heather Hudson get hurt. I suspect if she HADN'T become Alpha Flight leader.....the group would have faded away. Maybe Puck even sensed that only Heather could keep the pieces of Alpha together, after Guardian's death.

I hope David gets to continue Alpha from the beginning soon. ;) This is actually the only thread I visit on CBR now.

I wouldn't forget my friends up in the great Northern provinces! I'm just trying to get those pesky "other books" caught up with Alpha Flight.... which I had gotten ahead of myself, continuity-wise. The best is surely yet to come........

[david r]

Alpha Flight debuts, against the X-Men:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/6/6e/Alpha_Flight_005.jpg/404px-Alpha_Flight_005.jpg

[Timeslip]

Alpha Flight debuts, against the X-Men:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/thumb/6/6e/Alpha_Flight_005.jpg/404px-Alpha_Flight_005.jpg

That's hot.

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.22.GIF

Alpha Flight #22

"Rub-Out"

1st appearance: Pink Pearl, Clementine D' Arbanville, Bones

Moving along, another villain debuts in these pages. Her name is Pink Pearl, and she takes up nearly the whole cover. I'm not sure this was politically correct even in the 1980s, but Pearl's power is her massive size! Full-bodied?

Jeanne-Marie winds up at her brother, Northstar's , doorstep, in the night. Aurora has reverted to her Jeanne-Marie personality, and is confused as hell. The last thing she remembers is a strange man (Walter Langkowski) kissing on her on a boat, and she flew away. She knows not how. She has come to her brother, Jean-Paul, for assistance. Jean-Paul lets her in, baffled as to how Aurora transformed back into Jeanne-Marie. He decides NOT to contact Sasquatch, as he wants to separate himself from Alpha Flight as much as possible. He desires a team of Northstar & Aurora that does NOT include the Canadian super-team. The reader now moves westward, to Vancouver, and find Heather Hudson and newest member, Talisman, walking through the rainy streets. Heather is worried about Sasquatch's troubles, as he seems to be losing control of his bestial side. Suddenly, standing in a crowd, is a unshaven man who looks just like James Hudson---Guardian! The man turns and disappears into the crowd, as Heather frantically tries to follow him. She loses him and fallls to her knees in confusion. Talisman follows and says it can't be Mac! Guardian is dead!!

Back to the situation with Aurora, Jean-Paul drives her to an old haunt, a circus he was a member of in his wilder days. We meet a dark-haired female named Clementine D' Arbanville, who embraces Northstar and open-mouth kisses him---much to Northstar's surprise. The reader learns that Clementine had written to Northstar that something was amiss with this particular circus. Ever since a new member named Pink Pearl, circus members had been having accidents and being replaced by friends of Pearl's. Clementine feels like she's lost control of her own circus. A knock comes on the door, and as Clementine answers it, a rotund arm swings in and lays a punch right on her kisser! Pink Pearl enters the room, loaded for bear and ready for a fight! Northstar stands to confront her, as a bizarre man swings thru the window! His name is Bones and his arms & legs fling around Jean-Paul like a living skeleton. Northstar falls to the ground. Jeanne-Marie attacks Pink Pearl but the large woman grabs her head and practically suffocates her within her fat. Jeanne-Marie collapses to the floor.

Meanwhile again, moving to a remote field outside Moosejaw (love the name of the town!), we meet up again with the mysterious "Mr. Jeffries" and Box are present. The huge robot Box has been reborn, a new and sleeker version, and can now fly. His owner, Roger Bochs, now actually becomes "one" with this version. He physically enters the robot, like a symbiosis. Roger wants to use this new Box to take revenge on the people responsible for Guardian's death, in AF #12. But going back to the main story, Aurora, Northstar and Clementine have been tied up in the Big Tent by Pink Pearl. Pink Pearl has a dastardly plan to blow up a secluded farmhouse, which will house a secret meeting between the Canadian Prime Mininster and the President of the United States. Few people know of this meeting, but Pearl's unnamed benefactors desire the 2 men's death. And the bombing will be blamed on Quebec separatists, who desire the province of Quebec to become independent from Canada. We learn that Northstar was once a member of the separatists, as was Clementine. Thus, the circus will pose a front for Pink Pearl's scheme. There is only one glitch in her plans.... AURORA! Aurora has regained possession of her body (away from Jeanne-Marie) and the meek person Pink Pearl was expecting instead attacks her circus freak comrades! Northstar also jumps into action, to save the day! Bones is about to throw a dagger at Aurora, when Clementine body-slams him, and the dagger instead finds the person of Pink Pearl! It lodges itself into her hide, and she collapses. Pearl isn't dead, her body weight saved her, but she's down and finished. The authorities are called, and Pink Pearl and her comrades are arrested. Her plans are ruined. However, Aurora is still ticked with her brother. Their relationship is still terminated, and worse still, Aurora has guessed Jean-Paul's allegiance with the Quebec separatists...and plans to inform Alpha Flight. They won't want him at all now!!

My thoughts: Pink Pearl was another exotic super-villain. The plot to kill the Canadian and American leaders was thrilling, but somehow implausible with Pink Pearl and her circus sideshow pals running things. It became more a "James Bond"-type of scheme. Aurora continues to struggle with inner turmoil, and she seems to take it out on her brother, Northstar. The most interesting revelation here was Jean-Paul's involvement with Quebec separatists. I continue to learn more angles of Jean-Paul, some darker and often making him a more complex character. He has quite the sordid past, it seems. John Byrne's art impresses, as always. He says he did not like doing this book----but you certainly cannot tell from the finished product. Nice stuff, indeed. I hope his whole run gets collected in trades.

[Nyssane]

Pink Pearl's a superstar, she'd later be featured in the Superia Strategem as a member of the Femizons. She must have some degree of superhuman strength, as she threatened to rip off all of Paladin's limbs alongside Titania, Poundcakes, and Frenzy (three of my other favorite villains).

[Grazzt]

Meanwhile again, moving to a remote field outside Moosejaw (love the name of the town!)

In case you didn't know, that's actually a real town. (http://www.moosejaw.ca/)

[david r]

In case you didn't know, that's actually a real town. (http://www.moosejaw.ca/)

I assumed that it was. But I just loved the name---Moosejaw.

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/6/6a/Pink_Pearl_001.jpg

Pink Pearl

[david r]

Is James Hudson ALIVE??

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101324_AF_22_07.jpg

At the circus:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101348_AF_22_09.jpg

John Byrne draws a killer Box:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101440_AF_22_15.jpg

Roughhouse time:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101537_AF_22_21.jpg

[worstblogever]

Pink Pearl was not just fat, she was phat.

Nice to see the beginning of something being done with Madison Jeffries and Box, too.

Throwing in the interesting sub-plot of Heather Hudson seeing a mysterious stranger who looks just like her late husband raises some eyebrows.

[david r]

Ominous words from #22's letters page, by editor Denny O'Neil:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101551_AF_22_23.jpg

John Byrne states that person looking in on Northstar & Aurora (sitting on a couch) in the below page is Northstar's boyfriend. Byrne also says that Clementine is Jean-Paul's boyfriend's girlfriend. So there must have been some very interesting goings-on in that house.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101224_AF_22_02.jpg

[Ravenheart]

Ominous words from #23's letters page, by editor Denny O'Neil:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101551_AF_22_23.jpg

#23 was one of my favorite issues.

[david r]

#23 was one of my favorite issues.

I'm looking forward to reading it. Sounds like the Beasts will get front-and-center attention soon. :smile:

[escapegoat]

Ominous words from #22's letters page, by editor Denny O'Neil:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-02-28_101551_AF_22_23.jpg


Man, that blurb made for an antagonizing wait for issue #23. I remember reading a hint in a fanzine on what was going to happen in the next issue, so my anticipation was already there before Denny's little note.....

[escapegoat]

#23 was one of my favorite issues.

#23-28 is probably my favorite run within Byrne's tenure. Byrne throws in a lot of great stuff here.

[david r]

#23-28 sounds like it's gonna be good. I am curious what it holds!! :smile:

But first...............

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/97890869422.1.GIF


X-Men and Alpha Flight #1

"The Gift"

1st appearance: We Who Sit Above in Shadow

At long last, the classic mini-series pairing the X-Men and the mutant team from the Great North, Alpha Flight! A massive triple-sized issue launches this awesome adventure! It all may be too good to be true!

The story begins with Cyclops and his new blushing bride Madelyne Pryor flying an environmental survey team across Alaska and into Canada. This is Scott Summers' current job, and he walks through the small plane, speaking conversation with all their passengers. One man is anti-mutant, and this talk disturbs Scott. A huge thunderstorm is soon surrounding the plane, and Scott returns to the cockpit. Madelyne is keeping things together, but then there is a blinding FLASH! The reader now leaps to Professor Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. Illyana Rasputing and Doug Ramsey return from some fun in Salem's Center, to find the core X-Men team in a Danger Room session. Rachel Summers has a psi-flash and freaks out , and re-establishes the Danger Room's parameters, creating Sentinels who can actually hurt the mutants. The X-Men fight back, and it takes Charles Xavier's astral form to stop Rachel and this danger she created for them. Once the fighting is over, they learn why Rachel Summers freaked out. Using the Danger Room's own image-creating ability, she shows them the plane piloted by Scott and Madelyne Summers. It is slammed by a lightning bolt and crashes into the snowy wasteland. Cyclops rises from the ashes, on fire and collapsing before Rachel, and she screams DADDY!?!

We now meet up with Alpha Flight, the members are in Calgary and at Shaman's doctors office. Michael Twoyoungmen is treating Sasquatch, who is worried he is losing control of himself each time he transforms into his alter ego. Snowbird soon appears before them, sick and dying and collapses in pain. But before Shaman can treat her, he is assaulted by a firelike talon (reminscient of Phoenix) which slams him into a wall. One PO'd daughter has found him--Rachel Summers has arrived & thinks Shaman responsible for her father's death! The weather attack was the same as the one Shaman created in Uncanny X-Men #120, which ambushed the X-Men. Rachel tosses Shaman's medicine bag across the room, and Heather Hudson's arm falls into it. To Heather's shock, she cannot pull her arm out, and *something* is pulling her inside it! Rachel's doing a good job taking down Alpha Flight, as Sasquatch smashes through a wall to stop her! ENTER: THE X-MEN! Professor X, wearing the classic yellow-and-black training uniforms of the X-Men, grabs Rachel and pulls her to the Astral Plane. Where he angrily chastises her for attacking AF. Nightcrawler & Shaman succesfully pry the medicine bag from Heather's arm, much to her relief. Snowbird is still terribly sick, and Narya informs them that Cyclops was struck down the same moment she was. There is a terrible wrongness at Unguva Bay. The 2 mutant teams decide to unite to uncover this mystery.

Meanwhile, Thor's brother, Loki, stands before some Gods. If the gods can have Gods above them, then these are them. They are named We Who Sit Above in Shadow. Five shadow-encased figures sit in thrones, two females and three males. Looking like Norse Gods, and tiny Loki stands before these immense individuals. They have charged with Loki to do a good deed for the mortals of Midgard. Loki has done this, and now demands his reward. But the chief bearded God (who has a serpent's face on his helmet) says Loki must always show his worth. He has not done this. Loki leaves disappointed, but his schemes are still afoot. We now return to the heroes, all flying in Puck's own plane, headed for Unguva Bay. Heather Hudson walks among the assembled characters, and has a one-on-one discussion with Wolverine. Heather still wonders if she can handle the leadership role of Alpha Flight. Plus, Rogue and Northstar do some bonding, much to my surprise.

The plane soon lands in a field, and the 2 team shuffle out. What they see before them defies description--a HUGE, gorgeous city with high towers and beautiful, golden beams and archways. The city has no right to be hidden in the Canadian mountains, and the mutants are baffled over it's origins. A robed man appears and walks out to them; X-Men and Alphan alike preparing for battle. But it is none other than SCOTT SUMMERS! And better still, his eyebeams are cured and gone. Scott is overjoyed and everyone is happy to see him alive (all except Rachel Summers, who is stopped in her tracks at the sight of her father!) Scott escorts everyone into the golden city, (Northstar walks apart from the rest) as the heroes enter dumb-founded at the beauty around them. They now are greeted by Madelyne Pryor and the other survivors of the plane crash. They are all decked out in Norse-type clothing, and all have gained superpowers. All manner of sickness is gone from them. Madelyne is now called Anodyne, and the tall red-head touches Puck. Puck bursts into flame, but instead of burning, he grows to a normal man's height, and his physical pain leaves him! Puck is overjoyed, but falls down from his awkwardness.

Anodyne walks through the crowd, touching several mutants and healing them. Sasquatch is healed from his rages. Rogue is healed and for the first time in years, can touch another person and NOT absorb their minds. She grabs Northstar and kisses him! Charles, Madelyne and Scott sit and Xavier mindscans them. Charles suddenly learns that Madelyne is pregnant! Scott is shocked, but filled with joy and he embraces his wife. They are to have a son. But upon hearing of a son, Rachel Summers is heart-broken and runs out of the room. Charles wants to know the source of all this power, and is shown the "Magic Fountain". A white light which stretches from "the roof of the sky to the heart of the world". Heather Hudson walks out onto this light, and soon returns dressed in a Viking-style clothes. She feels "Better" and removes her glasses. She no longer needs them. But then, inexpicably, something goes wrong. Shaman's medicine bag ignites and dozens of monsters & creatures stream out of it, and attack Shaman, for no apparent reason. Anodyne breaks through the swarming masses, and flings the medicine bag to Aurora & Northstar, who race off with it. The monsters chase after them, but Shaman is in bad shape. Maybe this city of light isn't so perfect after all!

[david r]

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/c/c8/Xmenandalphaflight2.jpg

X-Men and Alpha Flight #2

"The Gift part 2"

The hugely-long finale to this memorable tale, as Charles Xavier's mutants and Canada's premiere super-team square off....with Gods and the fate of Earth hanging in the balance! It's another classic story, in a long line of classics. Though my favorite part is the end with Rachel Summers & Cyclops!

Rachel Summers is beside herself with grief. One, she's met her father, Cyclops, for the first time in our universe, and ran away rather than face him. Two, Scott's new wife, Madelyne Pryor, is pregnant..... with a boy!! Which means.....Rachel cannot exist. Or does she? Talisman and Shadowcat locate Rachel, crying and wanting to be left alone! Talisman finds a book, with several beautiful drawings of the very charmed city they are standing in. However, as the pages continue, the drawings become cruder, and finally downright amateurish. What gives? Meanwhile, Kitty talks Rachel out of her gloom, saying maybe her journey to *our past* might change the future for the better. Rachel starts to feel better. Soon, a cave-in begins to rock the place, and 3 female heroes run for their lives! Once they return to the main citadel, Kitty spies Madelyne Pryor--aka Anodyne-- sneaking out of Wolverine's room. Kitty enters and awakens Logan, who says that Adoyne burned off his berserker rage. For the first time, he is completely calm with no animal side of him! But Kitty reminds him that his berserker rage has saved their cans many times. Wolverine then remembers he was searching for Snowbird, sick and hiding in the mountains around them. Logan calls up Alphan Aurora and they race out into the snows, to find Narya. Find her Logan does, Snowbird curled up in a snow-cave, dying! Two of these "new gods" appear-- Pathfinder and Beastmaster. They plan to end Snowbird's life, and want her! Wolverine and Lockheed emerge from the cave, ready to brawl!!

Back in the main hall, Rogue is dressed in a very elegant dress, and asks Northstar to dance with her. Jean-Paul resists, but finally relents and they dance. Rogue says how she has never went to high school. Never went to the prom. This means a lot to her, and she laughs in delight! However, many of the heroes are wondering about the price being paid for their God-like powers. All magical characters present are dying--- Snowbird and Shaman. Soon, Wolverine bursts into the large chamber, carrying Beastmaster's bloodied body. Pathfinder is dead (!!) so Logan could protect dying Snowbird. Logan asks, "Is this the price asked for by this paradise?" Raised voices as the heroes begin to question this utopia. Sides are taken--those who are questioning this paradise of theirs---and the others who feel the sacrifice of a few is better for a paradise born on Earth. Colossus, Rachel Summers, Sasquatch, Anodyne, Puck and Aurora are those that feel the sacrifice of a few is worth it. Wolverine, Professor X, Kitty, Cyclops, Rogue, Talisman, Nightcrawler and Northstar in the group that feel this sacrifice is NOT worth deaths of innocents, and question continuing. Before you know it, X-Men and Alphans are fighting!!!

It is a wild and merry punch-'em-up!! Heroes and gods clash! But in the end, the God of Lies appears, LOKI ! Loki cannot believe his eyes! He has given them the tools for a paradise on Earth, and still, these misbegotten humans question it. So what if their individual creativity and dreams will be erased, as their transcendence to Gods seem to enhance their latent super-powers, but squeashes creative freedom! Cyclops questions Loki the most fiercely (Way to go, Scott!) Loki conjures up the Snow Giants, to defeat his erstwhile enemies on the field of battle. Soon, all the mutants are in heated fisticuffs with these Snow Giants. The mutants defeat their opponents, but in the end, it is We Who Sit Above in Shadow, who stop Loki. Up in the dark, bright Canadian sky, five Gods appear, bathed in darkness. They are above the Gods as we humans are above the amoeba. They tell Loki he has failed; even in giving Earth it's dream of peace and tranquility, Loki fails by not allowing humans their right to creative expression. Loki argues but it is to no avail. These cosmic entities will have no more argument, and their "deal" with Loki is ended. Loki is furious, and takes back all the positive changes. Puck reverts back to a dwarf, Logan regains his berserker rage, Rogue cannot touch another soul, and so on. Loki vows revenge on We Who Sit Above in Shadow, and the FireFountain fades. Shaman and Snowbird are restored to health, and thank them all for saving them. The freezing winter storm hits the golden citadel, and the heroes rush to their plane to escape!

As heroes rush in, Professor Xavier realizes one is missing. Rachel Summers is not present, so Cyclops head back into the freezing metropolis to find her. Rachel is crouching down on the ground, doing something. Rachel cannot BELIEVE Cyclops is the one sent to find him---the last person she wants to face. Her emotions are in turmoil s Cyclops approaches and says:

Cyclops: I'm told you're from the future.
Rachel: "A" future. We won't know if it's "THE" future...till we get there. And by then, it'll be too late. So why worry? My dad, he used to say...as long as you're alive, it's never too late."
Cyclops: Did...your father...die in that future?
Rachel: All the X-Men died.

Cyclops: You know, you remind me an awful lot of someone.
Rachel: That good or bad?
Cyclops: Good. She was very...dear to me. And when she died, all the light---the joy--went out of my life. A part of me will always miss her. I never imagined I'd ever be as happy---and fulfilled---again....until I met Madelyne. It isn't the same...but that doesn't mean it can't be as good. Or maybe even better.
As Rachel holds Scott's arm, she says: My mom had a saying: everybody deserves a second chance.
Cyclops: Smart lady.

And as X-Men & Alpha Flight depart, back in the crumbling fortress, a lone flower shines. Buried by Rachel, the beautiful rose, "a defiant patch of life amidst Loki's desolation. A reminder that humanity alone carries within itself the power to create paradise on Earth--on it's own terms, by it's own efforts---without the gifts or mechinations of greedy Gods."

[escapegoat]

This was a great mini-series. Though I remember it didn't exactly come out when Alpha Flight #22-23 came out, did it? I believe it came out a few months afterwards...

Gonna double check that out....

Yup, it came out the same month Alpha Flight #29 came out. But obviously fits in right around this point of Alpha Flight's run because of the events that occur in #23.

I wonder if the delay was due to Paul Smith's work on the series, or if it was because the mini was approved a little later than planned?

[david r]

This was a great mini-series. Though I remember it didn't exactly come out when Alpha Flight #22-23 came out, did it? I believe it came out a few months afterwards...

Gonna double check that out....

Yup, it came out the same month Alpha Flight #29 came out. But obviously fits in right around this point of Alpha Flight's run because of the events that occur in #23.

I wonder if the delay was due to Paul Smith's work on the series, or if it was because the mini was approved a little later than planned?

I was guessing, but it appears I got it right. X-Men/Alpha Flight comes right now, in Alpha Flight continuity. Cool beans.

I suspect this one took awhile to see release, as each issue is nearly 50 issues long!! And Paul Smith wasn't known as a fast artist. I swear some of #2's final pages look like Barry Windsor-Smith helped out. :wink:

[david r]

Some more of my thoughts on the 96-paged X-Men/Alpha Flight:

----This mini-series was intended to reunite Chris Claremont and John Byrne together. Bringing the 2 super-teams they were working on in the mid-1980s. Jim Shooter, Ann Nocenti (X-Men editor) and Denny O'Neil (Alpha Flight editor) made it happen.
----John Byrne passed on the project; so Paul Smith was brought on-board as artist.

----Alas, no Marrina again. She is a favorite of mine, and I hope she returns soon.
---- Northstar played a larger role than I expected. Jean-Paul actually did more here than the other Alphans. Though I felt his "fond farewell" at the end was out-of-character. Especially his hugging Heather Hudson.
----I wish Puck growing taller had been explored more.

[pariah-1972]

I love Byrne era Alpha Flight ! and i love Paul Smith's artwork it's very pretty !!

I don't care what anyone says but Alpha Flight was the best work Byrne has ever done bar none.

[Falconen]

This was a great little mini series. I love the Paul Smith art. This is also a great lead into the New Mutants and the X-Men Annuals that are just around the corner for your reviews. Lots of changes come out of this as a result... especially for the New Mutants.

[david r]

Pariah-1972, I agree with you that this is fantastic Byrne work. Just compare that JB was writing and drawing this AND Fantastic Four at the same time. And modern artists can't even keep up drawing ONE SINGLE TITLE and keep it on schedule.

Whether you love Byrne or hate him, the man does have a good work ethic.

Falconen, I am greatly looking forward to a continuation of this Loki adventure. I'm not sure if I will post it in this thread, since Alpha Flight don't appear in it.

[pariah-1972]

Pariah-1972, I agree with you that this is fantastic Byrne work. Just compare that JB was writing and drawing this AND Fantastic Four at the same time. And modern artists can't even keep up drawing ONE SINGLE TITLE and keep it on schedule.

Whether you love Byrne or hate him, the man does have a good work ethic.

Falconen, I am greatly looking forward to a continuation of this Loki adventure. I'm not sure if I will post it in this thread, since Alpha Flight don't appear in it.Well i love Byrne even his crazy old codger act is kind of cute in a way.

Tho i wish he would treat his fans with more respect.

[Cub]

Wow, since the 90s, Rogue has kinda gotten on my nerves with her angst and whatnot, but reading these back issues makes me fall in love with her all over again. Out of all of them, she would have the best argument for siding with the sacrifice of Shaman and Snowbird. And yet she still took the heroic route. Not that the other side isn't valid... i don't know which side I'd have chosen. Colossus' choice was surprising, as was Northstar's.

[david r]

Cub, making some nice points. Rogue showed she's a true hero, by sacrificing her physical freedom to help others. If there were any doubts about Rogue's loyalties, they are quieted now.

Colossus' changing sides was surprising, he even shed a tear! :frown: But Peter Rasputin stood for what he believed in---so I doubt Professor Xavier will frown upon him. And you noted Northstar was willing to give it all away to save Shaman & Snowbird. This was an uncharacteristically selfless act for Jean-Paul. I think Chris Claremont might have written Northstar a bit nicer than John Byrne would allow. But I still liked it.

Loki: Mischief-maker

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/b/ba/Loki_001.jpg

[david r]

General thoughts on the Alpha Flight members:

Heather Hudson: Heather has been through a lot of grief in this book. The death of her husband #1 on that list. But she's almost been maimed, in #14. Heather however, shows tremendous strength with diversity, as we never saw Heather weep over Mac's death. I'm still not sure about her assuming AF's leadership role, but Heather has a good head on her shoulders and seems very responsible. I hope she succeeds.

Puck: Eugene Judd is a personal favorite of mine. Puck also has overcome diversity--with his dwarfism, and the physical pain he must endure as a result. I find that an inspiration. Puck also seems quite the world traveler, as it's been hinted he has been to many exotic places, more than the average person. Judd's characterization does remind me of Wolverine a bit, and not just his height. He stands out in the lineup, like Logan does. I'm also amazed Puck has no super-powers!

Aurora: Jeanne-Marie Beaubier is perhaps the most emotionally messed up Alphan. She has a growing pschological problem associated with a double personality. And the 2 sides HATE each other (don't they always? :biggrin: ) I'm not sure which side of Aurora I like more. In her Aurora persona, she is too sexual and selfish. Flirting with Guardian and the like. But Aurora has shown maturity, like hugging Heather during Mac's funeral. (I liked her better with long hair!)

Sasquatch: I like Walter Langkowski a lot. Obviously, he is a main asset to this team. And John Byrne draws one purty Sasquatch. Walt may be a bit arrogant at times, but a man with his charm & good-looks, that is probably natural. I think Walter is actually a stable member......except for when he transforms into her hirsute alter-ego. Walt is losing control of Sasquatch at times, and that could lead to problems.

Snowbird: I never knew much about her before but she has grown on me. Snowbird is another member with much mystery. She is the offspring of Gods and humans, I believe. Narya has a strong female side, but still her Godlike side takes precedence. I wish we had learned the outcome of the budding romance between Snowbird and her human military man, Douglas. Narya also has demonstrated a dark side. I think there is much to learn about Snowbird.

Northstar: Jean-Paul Beaubier is the most arrogant, and egotistical, member. He is little interested in Alpha Flight actually. He only joined to be near his sister, Aurora. I keep thinking I should dislike him, but yet I cannot. We keep learning more about him (like his Quebec separatist involvement) and I want to learn more! Besides, he looks like a cross between Star Trek's Spock and Chekov.

Marrina: For some reason, I've always felt close to water-loving Marrina. But I realize after reading the first 22 issues, she barely appears. I wonder why Byrne even bothered to introduce her. Marrina has played such a tiny role in his run. But Marrina seems very warm and trusting. I hope we learn more about her and her alien background. Her past seems tied to the Master which I do not like.

Guardian: I guess I always loved Guardian for his unique Canadian costume. Which I think is a fantastic design by Byrne. But James Hudson really didn't get very fleshed out by Byrne. James definitely was a good man, standing up against the Canadian government when he felt they were doing him wrong. But "Captain Canada" got killed off, and a part of Alpha Flight's soul died with him. I think if I were Canadian, I'd be ticked they killed off the equivalent of Captain Canada. (His death in AF #12 was expertly handled though. A true shocker.)

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.23.GIF

Alpha Flight #23

"Night of the Beast"

1st appearance: Caliber

John Byrne's art hits new highs...as another shocker rips through Canada's super-group. Death seems to be a constant companion to Alpha Flight! :eek:

The issue opens with Snowbird, child of the Gods, being tortured by 3 of those selfsame Gods. Byrne's depiction of this scene is breathtaking! These Northern Gods say Narya has NOT done her job well, fighting off the Great Beasts, but Snowbird argues and says she has fought off each Beast which has emerged. But Hodiak, God of the Northern Lights, says wrong! Narya has not fought all the Beasts wherever they might appear---and a cloud-image arises looming eerily like a fellow Alphan! Snowbird now awakens from the nightmare, screaming and lying next to her beloved human lover, Douglas Thompson. Snowbird is beside herself with emotion, as she must now kill one of her closest friends. We now leap to another spot in Canada. As Puck, Talisman and Sasquatch's alter ego, Walt Langkowski, are discussing Heather Hudson's recent sighting of a man who looked like her dead husband. Talisman didn't see the man, but saw the look of disbelief in Heather's eyes. But there is NO WAY Guardian could have survived the blast! Aurora now swoops in and says a super-villain is on the rampage downtown. The heroes are on the attack!!

A badguy named Caliber is shooting things up in Vancouver. Caliber is wearing a huge body suit of armor, and plans to exterminate the population of Vancouver if his demands are not met. They are not met...as Alpha Flight arrive and begin beating up on the erstwhile baddie. Again, John Byrne illustrates some beautiful work here. Sasquatch gets blasted in his right shoulder by Caliber's artillery-gun, and it hurts Sasquatch. But Caliber is not match for his physical strength, and Sasquatch smashes him away. Just as Sasquatch is hurting, Snowbird comes swooping in from the sky, in her owl form, and viciously rips into Sasquatch with her talons!! The other members are shocked, and stand in place, not knowing how to respond. Aurora leaps into action to aid her man, and grabs Snowbird off Walter. But then Sasquatch swats them both away. His whole demeanor has changed, and his voice. Walter Langkowski is apparently gone...and has been replaced by an evil Beast. Something's gone terribly wrong. What has happened to Sasquatch? Talisman senses magic, and tries to subdue him with her power. But this Sasquatch mocks her, as being a novice in the ways of magic, and sends her power straight back on her.

Snowbird informs Puck that Walter Langkowski tapped into a Great Beast when he transformed himself into Sasquatch. Somehow, Walt's controlled nuclear experiment bridged a barrier momentarily into the barrier that holds the Beasts. And Walt assumed the physical body of one of them! Walt was able to control the Beast (as Sasquatch) but slowly, the real Beast has been taking control. And now the Great Beast itself is in complete control of Sasquatch's body! Snowbird feels there is only one way to stop Sasquatch. Narya transforms into a white version of Sasquatch, and a heated and ferocious battle ensues between the two Beasts. Blow by blow they are matched up. In the end, Snowbird's Beast smashes down Sasquatch...and rips out his living heart!! Sasquatch immediately reverts to the body of Walter Langkowski, who falls dead to the ground. Aurora runs to him in hysterics!The rest of Alpha Flight stand stunned. Snowbird replies the Great Beast is gone, and so is the soul of Langkowski. But they can still save his soul. But only if they are willing to venture into realms where evil holds eternal mastery. Into the Kingdom of the Beasts!

My thoughts I don't think INCREDIBLE is a strong enough word to descibe this issue! This really feels like the story John Byrne has been dying to tell with Alpha Flight. His best art of the entire run, IMO. Gorgeous truly describe Sasquatch here, and Snowbird's version of Sasquatch as well. I had wondered if Sasquatch was tied into the "Great Beasts", but never assumed he WAS one of them. Now I know what DDM meant when he said Sasquatch was more than he seems. What a great twist, but with tragic consequences for Walter and Aurora. I couldn't believe when Snowbird actually ripped out his heart! It seems every 12 issues, an Alphan dies! This book suddenly ratcheted up another level, and that cliffhanger has me drooling for more!

[worstblogever]

Sure, Guardian dies, and Snowbird could give a rat's patoot.

Sasquatch dies, and she tells everyone they're gonna go on a road trip to the Kingdom of Beasts to get it back. Apparently she like Walt a lot more than Jimmy Mac Hudson.

[Imraith Nimphais]

To be fair though, WBE...Narya did not personally rip James to shreds to get at his heart...so she may have felt a little more sorry (responsible) in the aftermath of wot she had to do to Walter...
David...you are quite correct..."incredible" can't begin to describe this issue...and wot takes place...I remember reading this when it first came out and I was completely bowled over by the Sasquatch/Great Beast revelation/twist...i was like "Bloody 'ell...man-OH-man...bloody 'ell! Wot!?"...lol...thus far, every issue's ending was a cliffhanger that had me eagerly anticipating the next...it's no wonder why am am hooked-on-comics even to this day...:-))

[david r]

Worstblogever, I feel it's because Walt was tied to these Giant Beasts. So therefore, Alpha Flight might save him. But Guardian had no such ties to the Beasts.

It was alarming when Sasquatch started speaking in a villainous tone. (And very ridiculous when he had NO BLOOD on his chest, following Snowbird's vicious attack.)

Imraith Nimphais, Bloody 'ell, indeed! :smile: So John Byrne is responsible for your comics addiction? At least he can't be blamed for your insatiable desire for Selene! :tongue:

----I must say, these "Good" Gods shown in #23 sure don't seem very "good" to me. They torture Snowbird and act like complete jerks.
----This book won't be the same without Sasquatch. :frown:

[Nevets F]

OMG...I was gone such a short while and I missed the mini! I will post my comments on that and the other posts since tomorrow when I get to work. :D

[pariah-1972]

I am curious if anyone has any idea why any post Byrne reboots of Alpha Flight have not been as well recieced?

[Nevets F]

I am curious if anyone has any idea why any post Byrne reboots of Alpha Flight have not been as well recieced?

Not sure really...I think one reason is because they always try to get a "whole new team" (or close to it) and a totally different direction, instead of going with what works for Alpha. looking back, v2 was a lot better than I originally gave it credit for, and actually really enjoy it now.

David...Amazing job on the summaries I haven't been able to comment on. The X-Men/Alpha Flight mini has always been one of my favorite mini series. Every bit of it is so great.

This issue was a fantastic issue wasn't it? Don't worry too much about missing Sasquatch...you haven't seen the last of him...or his form may be the better comment? Or both?

[escapegoat]

This issue was a fantastic issue wasn't it? Don't worry too much about missing Sasquatch...you haven't seen the last of him...or his form may be the better comment? Or both?

Maybe we should just say that Sasquatch has a very interesting and mixed-up life coming up in this run for the next little while and leave it at that.... :wink:

Loved this issue, it really delivered what was promised in the caption box last issue.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Imraith Nimphais, [/B] Bloody 'ell, indeed! :smile: So John Byrne is responsible for your comics addiction? At least he can't be blamed for your insatiable desire for Selene! :tongue:

No he can't...Claremont is the sole perpetrator of THAT...well, him and my own dark and twisted sensibilities...:redface:

[david r]

Hmmm...sounds like Sasquatch might turn up again. Of course, this being MARVEL, that seems like it answers itself! (I look forward to reading Steven Faulkner's thoughts on the X-MEN/ALPHA FLIGHT mini. I loved it, but damn....96 pages??? I was up for hours on those! )

Escapegoat, yeah, #23 certainly delivered what was promised. In spades. But I didn't expect Sasquatch to meet the Grim Reaper!

Imraith, Byrne & Claremont: I can blame them for my comics addiction, too!

Now for the pretty pictures:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-06_101136_AF_23_01.jpg

Jerk Gods:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-06_101152_AF_23_03.jpg

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-06_101211_AF_23_09.jpg

Snowbird swoops down for the kill:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-06_101317_AF_23_13.jpg

[david r]

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-06_101356_AF_23_18.jpg

Sasquatch falls

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-06_101421_AF_23_21.jpg

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-06_101443_AF_23_22.jpg

[pariah-1972]

For some reason the x-men/ alpha flight mini always reminds me of the song Hotel California.

[Danny Wall]

Hey, all. Just found this thread and spend way too long going through the 20-some pages. Whew! But I'm loving it. Alpha Flight was truly one of the series that made me a life-long comic fan.

My first issue was 21, the second Gilded Lily issue, and the villain was so engaging, the main characters so unique. My second issue was 23, the death of Sasquatch, which was even more shocking, of course. (In those days, I didn't have a lot of options for local comic shops, so finding regular issues was a chore, but part of the fun.)

Oh, and I was also just starting out with the Marvel Role-Playing game, too, and one of the first adventures was Cat's Paw, starring Alpha Flight. I LOVED that adventure, and often used it in different permutations over the years.

[Nevets F]

Hey, all. Just found this thread and spend way too long going through the 20-some pages. Whew! But I'm loving it. Alpha Flight was truly one of the series that made me a life-long comic fan.

My first issue was 21, the second Gilded Lily issue, and the villain was so engaging, the main characters so unique. My second issue was 23, the death of Sasquatch, which was even more shocking, of course. (In those days, I didn't have a lot of options for local comic shops, so finding regular issues was a chore, but part of the fun.)

Oh, and I was also just starting out with the Marvel Role-Playing game, too, and one of the first adventures was Cat's Paw, starring Alpha Flight. I LOVED that adventure, and often used it in different permutations over the years.

Welcome to the thread Danny! Isn't this the greatest?

[Imraith Nimphais]

Welcome to the "From The Beginning" thread, Danny...hope you survive the experience...(or get as much fun and nostalgia as we have been getting...at least!)

[Imraith Nimphais]

Oh...such lovely pictures...siiiiiiiiiiiigh. thanx much David...yer tha bestest...a troo skollar and a gentlemun.

[Danny Wall]

Well, thanks for the welcome! One thing... so david, these issues are being read for the first time? Or which exactly are the 'new' for you? Part of the fun of the thread is reading your reactions about things that pay off later. Are you are recounting your initial reactions or speculating on the reactions a typical reader would have? (I hope I made myself clear there. Either way, I'm enjoying the thread. Please keep it up!)

I'll have to admit that, since I was reading AF in my formative years, I thought Aurora was HOT, especially in her newer yellow costume.

[david r]

For some reason the x-men/ alpha flight mini always reminds me of the song Hotel California.

Since I live near the actual hotel that song is based on, I'm curious why the X-Men/Alpha Flight reminds you of Hotel California?

Danny Wall, As people have said, Welcome!! I keep hearing about that role-playing game. I wonder if there's a way to find it now? :confused:

As for your question, I have previously read AF #16 (the end of the Master/Namor arc) all the way into Bill Manto's run. So about 2 years worth. But it's been MANY years since I had revisited them. They were practically brand new to me now. I haven't read a single issue BEFORE #16, or after #35 or so. So the great majority of Alpha Flight is new to me. It's a delight so far.

Imraith Nimphais, Your posts always put a smile on my face. :smile:

[Danny Wall]

The classic Marvel rpg is still alive and well at http://www.classicmarvel.com, complete with downloads of all the materials and supplements. Even if you don't play, I'm sure you'll enjoy the Cat's Paw adventure. It takes place in AF's second year, between issue 12 and 23.

(And for a shameless plug, as if there is any other kind, I'm about a week away from introducing to the net a hybrid pen and paper RPG that I call the Marvel Flipside Set.)

[pariah-1972]

Since I live near the actual hotel that song is based on, I'm curious why the X-Men/Alpha Flight reminds you of Hotel California?

Danny Wall, As people have said, Welcome!! I keep hearing about that role-playing game. I wonder if there's a way to find it now? :confused:

As for your question, I have previously read AF #16 (the end of the Master/Namor arc) all the way into Bill Manto's run. So about 2 years worth. But it's been MANY years since I had revisited them. They were practically brand new to me now. I haven't read a single issue BEFORE #16, or after #35 or so. So the great majority of Alpha Flight is new to me. It's a delight so far.

Imraith Nimphais, Your posts always put a smile on my face. :smile:Well when they keep repeating the phrase "such a lovely place" that is very apt.
Also the intro has a very ornate feel which is very reflective of the art.

the part where he sings we are all prisoners here of our own device and the part
where he sings about gathering in the masters chambers and killing the beast.

Some of it may not be literal but it's just in my head .

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.24.GIF

Alpha Flight #24

"Final Conflict"

1st appearance: Somon, Kariooq the Corrupter

Sasquatch is dead. Alpha Flight are shocked, but Snowbird says there is a way to save Walter. They must descend to the Realm of the Beasts, where they can locate his soul.The Beasts reside here....there chances of success are slim. Who better but Alpha Flight to do the job, in this double-sized tour-de-force?

Heather Hudson, Puck, Shaman, Talisman, Snowbird and Aurora have journeyed to the "Eye of the World". It resembles the landscape of the moon. They have the body of Walter Langkowski...now turned into a statue. His soul is gone, in #23, and Snowbird (Walt's killer!) says his soul resides in the Realm of the Beasts. An anguished Aurora doesn't really trust Narya. Northstar soons arrives, sensing a summoning to come. Aurora punches him cold in the face at his arrival. Jean-Paul is outraged and turns to leave. But Snowbird *wishes* him to stay, and finishes their mission. Northstar stops in his tracks, ready to obey her. It is agreed that Heather will remain here, as she has no super-powers. She will watch over Langkowski's form. Shaman now pulls a long "key" from his magical medicine bag. Shaman holds it upright, and it emanates tremendous power. Alpha Flight take the journey to the Realm of the Beast!!!

After a psychedelic journey, they arrive on the dead planet. The artwork for this planet is all black-and-white. (Not sure why this was done, except to save time coloring.) A huge, gigantic city of towers and large structures stands before Alpha Flight. Shaman announces "Behold my friends! The Realm of the Beasts!!" The flying members take off and scout over the city. Not a soul is found. The Great Beasts 3 times had tried to enter Earth, and each time beaten back by heroic forces. They were ultimately exiled to this dead world. Soon, Alpha finds Somon, the oldest and most mortal of the Beasts. (He is the figure appearing on the cover.) Snowbird confronts, threatening to destroy him if he doesn't help them. Somon hits her with his staff, but Narya is not impressed. Somon then shows her his power....as he summons the return of Tundra, the massive monstrosity from AF #1. Also, summoned the ground, is a giant green beast named Kariooq the Corrupter. Also fire erupts around Alpha Flight, from Tolamaq the Fire Beast. The team run for cover.

The Beast Somon, much smaller than the other monsters, is not threatened by Snowbird. She thus transforms into a polar bear, and though Somon tries to control her, he fails and she lashes out at him with animal ferocity. As Somon's attention is divided, Tundra and Kariooq seem to change, and attack one another. Somon's ancient control of them is ended, and old hatreds return. The rest of Alpha locate Snowbird and Shaman orders her to stop attacking Somon. Somon timidly agrees to help them locate Sasquatch's soul. He takes them to the Well of Sorrows, where the soul of Walt Langkowski is residing. Only one who loves Walter (Aurora), one who hates him (Northstar) and one most powerful (Talisman) may enter the Well of Sorrows to find the soul. The 3 heroes step on the forboding steps and wander down into a dark hold in the ground. However, to their shock & horror, it is a TRAP!! As Somon's ghostly apparition appears in the darkness, and stabs the 3 Alphans with his claws. Up above, Snowbird flinches, sensing the death of Aurora, Talisman and Northstar. Snowbird turns on Somon, standing there innocently. Somon laughs and says he HAS deceived them. Snowbird ends his life by thrusting her hand through is chest!! Shaman summons the bodies of their fallen comrades out of the hold and back to the surface.

All 3 are indeed, terminal. But then above them, a large energy sphere appears and shoots down energy to the dead ones. The energy sphere is Walt Langkowski's soul, and it is giving a portion of itself to save them. It works, as Aurora, Northstar and Talisman are revived. Shaman sees the shrinking energy sphere for what it is: Sasquatch's soul. He encases it and Alpha Flight return to Earth, using Shaman's magics. They find Heather still there, having been joined by the robotic Box. To their dismay, Walt's statue-body has crumbled away, leaving no body left for his wandering soul. Shaman makes an instant decision to send Walt's soul into the robotic body of Box. Box's creator, Roger Bochs, vacates the robot, and Shaman sends Walt's soul into Box. The transfer works. Walt Langkowski is saved!! Though his body died, he remains inside this robot (Robbie the Robot jokes spring to mind.) Aurora is overjoyed! It is at this moment that Snowbird announces her mission was to destroy the Great Beasts. This task has been completed, as the Somon is dead and the Beasts are broken up. Snowbird's time on Earth is done.

The issue ends with Heather Hudson meeting with Douglas Thompson, the man who loves Snowbird. Heather informs him of Alpha Flight's recent mission, and Snowbird's part in it. The adventure ended with Snowbird announcing she was returning to her Gods, and leaving our earthly plane. Douglas is saddened by this news, and his loss. Heather says she knows about loss herself. After Heather leaves his house, Snowbird appears from a bedroom. Narya is sorry that Douglas had to lie for her. But she has been on this Earth for a short time. She has been a hero and a God. Now, she wants to be a.....woman! And she kisses Douglas passionately.

My thoughts: The anniversary issue, #24, is another high note for Alpha Flight. John Byrne does a superlative job celebrating this milestone for his Canadian super-team. I don't know HOW he wrote & drew so many pages back then. Truly an astounding achievement. I didn't really care for the use of black-and-white to illustrate the Realm of the Beasts. It seemed like a cop-out. But the showdown with Somon was damn cool. It didn't seem like the other Great Beasts did a whole lot. I guess I was expecting a much BIGGER showdown with the Beasts. But I'm very happy with this outcome. Snowbird certainly is a lethal opponent; she draws blood very quickly with no questions asked. I'm VERY happy for her "Happy Ending" with Douglas Thompson. As for Sasquatch...his body survives. But his soul is inside Box, the robot. What an interesting development; I thought Sasquatch was one of the main attractions to this book, as eye candy. I wonder why Byrne wanted to off him?

[limerick]

re:Offing Sasquatch.Alpha Flight was definitely one of the most dangerous teams to be a member of.Without spoiling much lets just say mortality rates started high and just got higher as time went on.Joining Alpha Flight is bad for your health.

[limerick]

re:Offing Sasquatch.Alpha Flight was definitely one of the most dangerous teams to be a member of.Without spoiling much lets just say mortality rates started high and just got higher as time went on.Joining Alpha Flight is bad for your health.

[david r]

re:Offing Sasquatch.Alpha Flight was definitely one of the most dangerous teams to be a member of.Without spoiling much lets just say mortality rates started high and just got higher as time went on.Joining Alpha Flight is bad for your health.

You're kidding. Joining Alpha Flight is a death wish!! :eek:

[david r]

Highlights from Alpha Flight #24

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-13_085356_AF_24_01.jpg

The return of Tundra:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-13_085501_AF_24_15.jpg

Snowbird strikes! And are the Great Beasts fighting, or hugging?

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-13_085550_AF_24_23.jpg

You don't mess with Snowbird:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-13_085635_AF_24_29.jpg

[david r]

Box to the rescue!

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-13_085728_AF_24_33.jpg

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-13_085745_AF_24_34.jpg

A cool pin-up!

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-13_085759_AF_24_37_shaman.jpg

[Danny Wall]

I love the way you also scan a few pages in, too. Keep it up!

As for the high mortality rate, this was something that really appealed to me as a young reader. Wait a minute, that sounds wrong. What I mean is, there was a sense that the stakes were always so HIGH with whatever situation the Flight faced. It leant a sense of urgency, of momentum, and of change, almost melodramatically so.

The difference between some more "momentous" events of recent comics is that AF's momentous events were always tied so personally to the characters' lives.

Walter: "Hey, guys! Did I tell you I love being a super-hero?"
Flight: "ZOMG! YOU'RE A GREAT BEAST! NOW YOU'RE THREATENING ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THE WORLD AND MUST BE DESTROYED!"

[david r]

I'll have to admit that, since I was reading AF in my formative years, I thought Aurora was HOT, especially in her newer yellow costume.

Yes, Aurora is a sweetness. But I liked her with her longer hair more. And I liked the "connectedness" of her & Northstar's costumes; how the designs connect if they stand close by each other. (But the yellow one is awesome, too!) :smile:

And yes, the major developments in this book are tied VERY closely to AF's personal lives. I see bad things for Aurora. However, Puck hasn't had much done to him. He did virtually nothing in this battle with the Great Beasts.

I liked #24 a lot. But I was expecting a bigger confrontation with the Beasts. Other than Somon, Alpha Flight didn't really take on the big beasties. The part with Somon was coolness, tho.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I liked #24 a lot. But I was expecting a bigger confrontation with the Beasts. Other than Somon, Alpha Flight didn't really take on the big beasties. The part with Somon was coolness, tho.

I felt exactly the same on reading # 24. I was in no way disappointed with the story, but, I too, was hoping for a "wring-dong pull-down panty bachanal" as the Trinis here dem say...lol...a much more all-out dramatic, action packed and final battle between Alpha and the Beasts...though I do LOVE how Snowbird kills Somon...w'ked!...as I am reading it all together now (again)...that was one heck of a two years wot with everything that has happened to AF up to this point...I can't help but compare wot Byrne did in those two years: the ground work he's laid, the stories he's written, the characters he's developed (from scratch)...to wot some current writers have done given the same time frame...major props the the Byrne-man himself!!!

[david r]

So true, Imraith. John Byrne set up Alpha Flight so well. So many cool new ideas and characters. Though it seems most of the villains didn't last beyond the 1980s, Alpha Flight itself has stood the test of time.

Alpha Flight may be one of Byrne's best writing jobs, too. He doesn't get as many props for his writing. As you said, look at how much he has laid down in two years, compared to modern writers. No decompressed stuff here. And the book is constantly shifting and changing with new members. I really love that. The newest issue had my jaw hitting the floor with SURPRISE! :smile:

Also, John Byrne reveals he knew he was leaving the book by #24. So starting with Sasquatch's death and these issues that follow, were his farewells to the Canadian team he defined for so many readers.

Here is a quote from Byrne about Aurora:

One of her personalites, at least, must have loved Walter!!

(Sidebar: It is perhaps interesting to note that I would most likely not create
Aurora, if I were starting Alpha today. Not the Aurora we all know, anyway.
There has been too much research in the years since that has poked a
whole lot of pins into the idea of "split personalities". More and more the
concept is being rejected, and such manifestations as have been recorded
are increasingly seen as deliberate or accidental manipulation by the
therapist. So, starting off today, I would not go that route with Jean Marie.)

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.25.GIF

Alpha Flight #25

"...And Graves Give Up Their Dead..."

All I can say is....HOLY SHITE! A twist I didn't see coming. :eek: Guardian is alive?? But I have my suspicions.......

This bombshell issue begins with Northstar standing before Alpha Flight, under trial for accusations of his being a terrorist. Revealed in AF #22, we learned Jean-Paul was a member of the Quebec Separatist Movement earlier in his life. And did things he regrets now. Alpha want answers. Northstar mocks them and this "trial". We also learn that Box's creator, Roger Bochs, is the newest member of Alpha Flight. However, this trial comes to naught as Puck enters the room and mentions that villain Caliber has escaped! He has escaped from jail, and is causing damage downtown. Oh......and the hero fighting him is...........wait for it................................................ ............................... Guardian?!?!

In downtown, Talisman watches as Guardian (or someone dressed in his trademark Canadian super-suit) is busy fighting off Caliber. Talisman isn't sure HOW Guardian is alive, but she knows the real threat is this two-cent Iron Man rip-off, Caliber. Talisman saves the day by using her magical abilities to strip Caliber's entire mechanical suit off him. Caliber flops to the ground wearing his underwear, looking shocked and pissed off. The authorities take into custody. Alpha Flight hit the scene, and Guardian lands. Guardian doesn't recognize half the Alpha members, and Heather Hudson hesitantly approaches. Is it really her husband, James Mac Hudson?? Guardian says as hard as it is to believe, it really is him. To prove it, he takes her in his arms and kisses her!! Next thing you know, Heather faints! She awakens on a couch, with the rest of the team helping her. James has removed his helmet, and tells them all of his journey from death. In Alpha Flight #12, as his power pack was about to blow and destroy him, he gambled the blast would create a rupture in the space-time continuum. Guardian had hit the proper sequence, and the blast was internalized. It blew a hole in time-space, and James was catapulted thousands of millions of miles! His suit exploded, but his body did NOT DIE in #12! Guardian materialized again on one of Jupiter's moons!

Guardian nearly died from exposure to the inhospitable, alien climate of the moon. But there were aliens under the moon's surface, and they rescued James. For months, he was repaired by the unknown alien species, and brought back from death! James grew a kinship with these aliens, and soon he was ready to return to Earth. Unfortunately, his time-space jump had sent him centuries into the past. He had to enter suspended animation to reach 1980s, Earth time. But when he did, James took a spacecraft from the Jupiter moon, back to Earth. And now, he has returned to Heather. And Alpha Flight! Heather is emotional and says how her life was over when James died. She hugs him and is awash with emotion. James seems hesitant, stands and says that the aliens made some...."changes" when they saved his life on the moon. He rips off his Guardian suit, and reveals that part of his physical body is now made of armor. Heather is shocked!

My thoughts: Well, well, well, Byrne throws another curveball and blind-sides readers with the unexpected return of Guardian. But I am cautious. His return seems a little too.....easy. I mean, what was the point of killing Guardian in AF #12 to so gingerly resurrect him here. It seems little point to it , and too easy. I have my doubts Guardian is playing straight with them all. Plus, we learn that Aurora may not be interested in a lover who has the body of a ROBOT! But beauty is in the soul, Jeanne-Marie!! But overall, this is a twist of an issue and had me searching for clues to what's going on here. John Byrne's artwork is really stellar here, and he was the King of the Comic Books at this time. And it shows.

[Imraith Nimphais]

HA!!!!..this was one helluva curveball indeed...eventhough I was expecting it (based on his two-panel re-appearance in an earlier issue) I was still not prepared for the actuallity...read on David...(I can't wait to see your response to wot happens over the next couple o issues)...however, while it was quite interesting and dramatic at the time, for its time...the whole death and resurection theme is now so very cliche and trite...sigh.

[escapegoat]

You think this issue threw a curveball? Wait til you get to the next issue!

[Nevets F]

You think this issue threw a curveball? Wait til you get to the next issue!

inorite? The shocks keep coming.

[Danny Wall]

Hmm. It's kinda weird, but I don't really remember this one! I usually can remember past comics quite vividly, even picturing individuals panels, but although the cover rings a chord, I'm not picking up anything with the description. It's possible that it was a gap in my collection and I only remember the events because I know their endings/set-ups so well.

[david r]

Guardian is BACK! Everything's right with the world! Isn't it??

Here's another hint, by the editor!

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_090246_AF_25_23.jpg

Danny Wall, I hadn't remembered AF #25 either. It was like a whole new experience reading it now. You owe it to yourself to find this issue. It's that good!

John Byrne on AF #25:

Fun issue to work on. REALLY surprised by how many of you fell for my
ruse! I guess, as Glen notes above, you were just so happy to have Guardian
"back" you were willing to overlook the Peterbilt sized holes in his story.

As was a later writer. sigh

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.26.GIF

Alpha Flight #26

"If at First You Don't Succeed..."

Looks like Omega Flight are egging Guardian to attack them. Or do they have something else in mind?? A shocker twist that may go down as one of the Best "I Didn't See That Comin'" moments in comics history!

This issue begins with Alpha Flight (Guardian, Puck, Talisman, Shaman, Aurora and Box) battling a squad of robots that have smashed up the Canadian army and are on the loose. There is one cool moment when the robots unite in a "Transformers" scene and combine into one large robot. They do a fine job smashing up on this thread...until we find out that the whole operation is merely a "testing sequence" for the "Macro System". A captain Mansfield approaches Alpha Flight and congratulates them on a job well done, testing out their "Macro System". They needed one last major test before the gov't would commit to it. But quickly enough, captain Mansfield is informed that there is a threat, and Alpha Flight has been called in to tackle it. So off go Guardian, Puck and Talisman!

Their target is the West Edmonton Mall, the largest shopping center in the world. At this point, even less as large as it's current impressive size. Talisman remarks it's larger than a small city. The 3 Alphans approach the crowd formed outside the mall, as all shoppers were chased out by Omega Flight! Guardian is raring to face them again, they the enemies who "killed" him in AF #12. They foolishly separate and each member confronts a different Omega Flight member. Diamond Lil, Wild Child and Flashback are the baddies here. However, it ISN'T Omega Flight which knocks out the heroes, but an unseen foe who knows Alpha very well. Puck, Talisman and Northstar are all taken out rather easily by the mystery villain. The issue concludes with Heather Hudson standing before a comic book shop within the deserted West Edmonton Mall. Guardian walks up acting rather odd. Heather is surprised by him and replies, "Mac! You scared me out of a year's growth!" Guardian's answers to her questions about the battle raise concern in her, and then suddenly his voice changes!! Guardian removes his helmet and Heather recognizes the voice! The voice is Jerry Jaxon, the man who tried to destroy Alpha Flight. But he's dead! "Dead? Like Guardian was dead?" the voice says. "Let me make it easier for you to understand!" This Guardian takes his hand and rips his face off!! Underneath is revealed......a ROBOT!! Guardian hasn't returned from the dead! He's a robot, and his programming is The Destruction of ALPHA FLIGHT!

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-27_092000_AF_26_22.jpg

My thoughts: This may be one of the best "Oh my GOD!" moments in comics. Definitely of the 1980s! I would say this "Guardian is Back" story is John Byrne's greatest moment of his Alpha Flight run, and perhaps #23-26 is the best Alpha period ever. A true stroke of genius to bring "Guardian" back, only to reveal him as nothing but a robot. Heather Hudson may NOT recover from this one!! Just what the hell is wrong with his Jerry Jaxon guy? I also rather liked the West Edmonton Mall used as it's famous. I've noticed Byrne using several Canadian cities and locations continually and am glad he's taking us on a small tour of his home country. But I think AF #26 will always be best remembered for that last page! My hat is off to you Byrne, a nice cliffhanger and twist.

[escapegoat]

This issue delivered on its promised curveball. And Byrne played it soooo well by giving us this great big in-depth explanation of how Guardian survived in the previous issue, making this betrayal even more shocking and out of left field.

BTW, the robot is actually Delphine Courtney, who was the robotic assistant to Jaxon from the New York incident. That should make the reveal a little more relevent by tying her in to the first Omega Flight encounter where Mac died.

The comic shop near the end, Graphic Fantasy I believe was its name, was an actual comic shop within West Edmonton Mall. I had been there a few times on my trips to Edmonton as a kid.

[pariah-1972]

How far are we gonna go into Alpha Flight ? are we gonna cover the Bill Mantlo era? or are we just stopping after Byrne left??

[david r]

Escapegoat, You are so right. The explanation of Guardian's resurrection was so far-fetched that it HAD to be real. And yet....it was all a horrible betrayal! This is an almost mean-spirited twist on Heather Hudson. For her to think the man she loves has returned, only for it to be a charade. (I hope they hadn't done.............you know! :eek: )

So the robot is Delphine Courtney. Is she a pure robot, or cyborg?

So 'goat, you've been to the West Edmonton Mall? I saw a TV special on it once, and have always wanted to go there. Is this mall really as spectacular as it's advertised as? (I have never been to Canada.)

----I liked the comics shown at Graphics Fantasy. One even was an upcoming Incredible Hulk issue by John Byrne which had NOT come out yet.

Pariah-1972, Is the Bill Mantlo run as good as Byrne's?

[david r]

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_085823_AF_25_01.jpg

Guardian reunites with Alpha Flight:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_085939_AF_25_10.jpg

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_090035_AF_25_14.jpg

Notice Guardian's foot standing on the word "Sale"? Was Byrne hinting the book was up "For Sale"?

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_090154_AF_25_20.jpg

[escapegoat]

So the robot is Delphine Courtney. Is she a pure robot, or cyborg?

Pure robot.

So 'goat, you've been to the West Edmonton Mall? I saw a TV special on it once, and have always wanted to go there. Is this mall really as spectacular as it's advertised as? (I have never been to Canada.)

It was extremely cool way back in the 80's and early 90's...haven't been out that way for at 15 years though....I'm curious how it holds out today. The last time I was there, I got to go bungee jumping!

----I liked the comics shown at Graphics Fantasy. One even was an upcoming Incredible Hulk issue by John Byrne which had NOT come out yet.

That was a fun bit of foreshadowing on his move over to that title.:smile:

Is the Bill Mantlo run as good as Byrne's?

It's not as good, but still pretty good. There are some things that I didn't like (coughcoughPuck'sorigincough) and others that I thought were pretty cool.







I loved this image....it made the whole story seem plausible and believable.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_090154_AF_25_20.jpg

[Pixie_Solanas]

How far are we gonna go into Alpha Flight ? are we gonna cover the Bill Mantlo era? or are we just stopping after Byrne left??

Dear God, no.

[pariah-1972]

Dear God, no.Hmm ok won't hear any complaints by me:smile:

[pariah-1972]

[

Pariah-1972, Is the Bill Mantlo run as good as Byrne's?Not really no .

I think someone said he was busy trying to incorperate new characters and shoved the old ones out of the picture.

[carloshll726]

It was an awesome title. :tongue:

[david r]

Escapegoat, Your sentence about bungee jumping at the West Edmonton Mall brought a smile! Now I HAVE to go! :smile:

And yeah, that Byrne page you mentioned WAS cool. It somehow made his implausible "Space Journey" seem plausible. (Though the metallic parts on the neck of Guardian are a HUGE HINT by Byrne of his true intentions. This story rocked!)

Agent Torpor, Pariah-1972, From your comments and the "Dear God no" comment, are you saying you dislike Bill Mantlo's era? Or you're upset over Byrne leaving?

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.27.GIF

Alpha Flight #27

"Betrayal"

Guardian is dead. A robot has impersonated him, and Omega Flight have taken out half of Alpha. One of the biggest shockers of 1980s Marvel ends with a weird, kaleidoscope journey that may destroy the team. Will the West Edmonton Mall survive?? :eek: :biggrin:

In a cool shot, the Guardian imposter and Omega Flight are holding the helpless bodies of Puck, Northstar and Talisman. Heather Hudson squirms to be free, but "Guardian" (actually the robot Delphine Courtney in disguise) holds Heather fast. They are within the deserted West Edmonton Mall, the largest shopping mall in the world. But there is no shopping today. Only betrayal and tragedy! :evilangry: The robot hurts Talisman, hoping her pain will alert her father, Shaman. Meanwhile, the other members of Alpha Flight are unaware of what's transpired. The newest member, Roger Bochs, has built an interdimensional scanner, to find and locate a new body for Walter Langkowski. Walt's Sasquatch form is dead, and his soul is inside the large, robot Box. Roger is searching across dimensions to find a suitable replacement form, and has found one who looks eerily similiar to a green-hued monster of Marvel fame!! As the rest of the team watch Roger, Shaman suddenly is seized with a spasm of pain. Something is happening to his daughter!!

Soon enough, Shaman, Box and Aurora arrive at the West Edmonton Mall via a transportation spell from Michael Twoyoungmen. Guardian is waiting to greet them, his "face" back on. The 3 Alphans are unaware of the danger. Guardian inquires about the whereabouts of Smart Alec, and Shaman informs him the Omega villain is now the size of a small doll inside Shaman's medicine pouch. Guardian is shocked, and whisks the medicine bag right off Shaman's hip. Guardian takes off, with Twoyoungmen shocked at his "leader's" actions. Aurora flies after Guardian, and witnesses him open the medicine bag, in search of Smart Alec. Guardian folds the bag inside out............. and all Hell breaks loose! Brightly colored "lines" flow out of the medicine bag! Guardian has opened some doorway to another dimension! Aurora is taken aback by the weird, indescribable colors that surround her. They even hurt her eyes to look at. Soon, she is devoured by it! Box runs to her aid, but he too disappears into the colors!

Omega Flight are scared willy-nilly, and flee in terror. Soon, the unconscious bodies of Alpha Flight are consumed. The West Edmonton Mall, and Canada, are in dire danger! Shaman is frightened, and finds Talisman. He tells his daughter she MUST enter the void, so they can both use magic (one within it, one outside it) to stop this vortex from growing wider and engulfing EVERYTHING! Shaman promises she'll be okay, and Talisman enters it! Elizabeth is surrounded by an unbelievable phantasm of sights, sounds and colors! She flies around the void, and finally locates the missing Alpha Flight. Talisman rescues them and they exit, still asleep. Sure enough the vortex is shrinking, as Shaman & his daughter work their magic to send it back into the medicine pouch. However, as Talisman tries to leave it, Guardian reappears and shoots at Shaman. Guardian has captured Snowbird and it strangling her. Shaman rescues her by reaching into the vortex and removing an ooozy, green mess from it and hurtles the goo at Guardian's face! Snowbird is saved, but as Shaman turns around, to his horror... the vortex is collapsing back into the small medicine bag.. WITH TALISMAN STILL IN IT! Shaman rushes to help his daughter, but there is nothing he can do to pull her out now! Talisman screams "Help me! HELP ME!! YOU PROMISSSSSSS.." And then she is gone!!

My thoughts: What an awesome, completely unexpected finale to the Guardian/Omega arc. The medicine bag disaster was frightening and another cool shocker. Especially the heart-breaking finale. Poor Shaman, his guilt will be inescapable. Boy, I thought being an X-Man was rough! Join Alpha Flight and you got a life of tragedy! Since #23, this book has rocked on pretty much all levels!! This was just another awesome issue. This issue also announces that John Byrne is leaving the book, with #28. The Hulk book and Alpha Flight are switching creative teams. I'm not exactly enthused with this news.

[pariah-1972]

Escapegoat, Your sentence about bungee jumping at the West Edmonton Mall brought a smile! Now I HAVE to go! :smile:

And yeah, that Byrne page you mentioned WAS cool. It somehow made his implausible "Space Journey" seem plausible. (Though the metallic parts on the neck of Guardian are a HUGE HINT by Byrne of his true intentions. This story rocked!)

Agent Torpor, Pariah-1972, From your comments and the "Dear God no" comment, are you saying you dislike Bill Mantlo's era? Or you're upset over Byrne leaving?A little bit of both actually.

[escapegoat]

Escapegoat, Your sentence about bungee jumping at the West Edmonton Mall brought a smile! Now I HAVE to go! :smile:

Yeah, I'd love to go back there sometime soon too. I was kinda disappointed to hear that it's only the 4th largest now in the world (but still the largest in North America)

And yeah, that Byrne page you mentioned WAS cool. It somehow made his implausible "Space Journey" seem plausible. (Though the metallic parts on the neck of Guardian are a HUGE HINT by Byrne of his true intentions. This story rocked!)

I wonder if Omega Flight ran out of the fleshy make-up partway through applying it to Delphine Courtney,, and then decided "Hey! I've got a great idea for a cyborg story we can feed them...." :tongue:

[Nevets F]

Sure it is sad that Byrne is leaving, but there is a ton of Alpha to go (some good, some great, some less than good...like all titles). I hope you continue David!

Re: this issue: Poor Shaman...he has failed his daughter AGAIN. This can't be good for their relationship (assuming she gets out somehow).

[limerick]

Re:Bill Mantlo's run.

Unfortunately,it's certainly not comparible to Byrnes.You'll have to grit your teeth through some pretty poor storylines and character development if your going to stay with it.I would basically read any X-title(dubious link)but it becomes a bit of a struggle at times.Upcoming events with Puck are just wrong---editor shouldn't have let it past.

Saying that I hope you stay with the thread ,David,even if just to discuss the bad points.

[Pixie_Solanas]

A little bit of both actually.

Exactly. Sadness over Byrne leaving, horror at what Mantlo wrought...

[Falconen]

And it isn't only the writing that takes a nose dive. Now we begin the ever changing artists, and unfortunately, they aren't anywhere near as clean and nice as JB's stuff.

I liked Bill Mantlo's writing on the Micronauts, but it didn't seem to fit into AF very well. Of course, he does continue the process of these people leading terrible lives, and going through hell.

[Nevets F]

I really hope this doesn't become a thread about complaining about the book. So far, these threads have remained fresh and fun, even through the terrible early years of the X-Men. I have faith in David though.

[pariah-1972]

And it isn't only the writing that takes a nose dive. Now we begin the ever changing artists, and unfortunately, they aren't anywhere near as clean and nice as JB's stuff.

I liked Bill Mantlo's writing on the Micronauts, but it didn't seem to fit into AF very well. Of course, he does continue the process of these people leading terrible lives, and going through hell.I think he made AF too sci fi in his run when most of the people were magic based.

Most of the threats they faced were magic based in Byrne's run too.

[escapegoat]

I think he made AF too sci fi in his run when most of the people were magic based.

Most of the threats they faced were magic based in Byrne's run too.

The Master, The Plodex, Super-Skrull, Omega Flight, Gilded Lily, Big Bertha, and Caliber are all magic-based?

I'd say it was an even amount of magic/sci-fi. And I'd say the same with Mantlo's run too.

[david r]

I wonder if Omega Flight ran out of the fleshy make-up partway through applying it to Delphine Courtney,, and then decided "Hey! I've got a great idea for a cyborg story we can feed them...."

HA! That is pretty good. :biggrin: Omega Flight do seem a bit lazy. I'm thinking Jerry Jaxon was the mastermind behind this scheme. Even though they tell us he's dead.

Steven F. Hey, I noticed you changed your name! :tongue: Anyway, I agree that Shaman is going to have SERIOUS problems with what happened to his daughter in #27! When Talisman was screaming "You PROMISSSSSS...", I didn't know if i should laugh or scream at that. What a cruel twist of fate.

To everyone: As for Alpha Flight's future, this is what John Byrne said about it:

Alas, things didn't turn out so well, did they. For me, or for
Alpha.

[pariah-1972]

The Master, The Plodex, Super-Skrull, Omega Flight, Gilded Lily, Big Bertha, and Caliber are all magic-based?

I'd say it was an even amount of magic/sci-fi. And I'd say the same with Mantlo's run too.Ok i stand corrected.
:redface:

[Nevets F]

Steven F. Hey, I noticed you changed your name! :tongue: Anyway, I agree that Shaman is going to have SERIOUS problems with what happened to his daughter in #27! When Talisman was screaming "You PROMISSSSSS...", I didn't know if i should laugh or scream at that. What a cruel twist of fate.

To everyone: As for Alpha Flight's future, this is what John Byrne said about it:

I did change my name! It was desperately needed. :)

With Shaman and Talisman...I see where she is coming from, but at the same time...I think she takes things waaaay too far. Very childish attitude sometimes...you will see what I mean (and my comments come from a place of love for her...lol).

Byrne's comment doesn't come off as important to me to be honest...he hated his OWN run on the book too, so it is not like I expect him to like the people that came in after.

[pariah-1972]

I will never understand why he keeps dissing this book....
it's not like his heart wasn't in it since he got into a furious battle with Peter David over spoiling Guardians death at some comic convention.

[david r]

I did change my name! It was desperately needed. :)

Was this to hide your secret identity as a caped crusader? Your secret last name is safe with me from now on. :smile:

With Shaman and Talisman...I see where she is coming from, but at the same time...I think she takes things waaaay too far. Very childish attitude sometimes...you will see what I mean (and my comments come from a place of love for her...lol).

Elizabeth shows much hostility towards her father. She needs to cut him some slack over her mother's death. I think their relationship was on the mend....and now THIS!!!!

Byrne's comment doesn't come off as important to me to be honest...he hated his OWN run on the book too, so it is not like I expect him to like the people that came in after.

I wonder if Byrne is just being modest. I bet he actually likes this run, but would rather not make too much of a fuss. He often downgrades his Fantastic Four run too and that's legendary.

it's not like his heart wasn't in it since he got into a furious battle with Peter David over spoiling Guardians death at some comic convention.

I've never heard that. Do you know what happened?

[Nevets F]

I will never understand why he keeps dissing this book....
it's not like his heart wasn't in it since he got into a furious battle with Peter David over spoiling Guardians death at some comic convention.

I never heard this either...I would love to hear more details on it.

[Dr Ray Palmer]

[The West Edmonton Mall] was extremely cool way back in the 80's and early 90's...haven't been out that way for at 15 years though....I'm curious how it holds out today. The last time I was there, I got to go bungee jumping!

I was there in 1995, so it's been a while for me, too! It was cool, but not (IMO) quite as nice or as glitzy as the Mall of America in Minneapolis. The submarine pool at WEM was cool, and I think there was a water park/wave pool-type thing, too?

[david r]

I adore the look on Aurora's face as she ponders whether she loves Langkowski for his body, or mind. Pure hilarity.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_090230_AF_25_22.jpg

Alpha Flight versus robots:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-27_091734_AF_26_02.jpg

Was Wild Child meant to look feminine?

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-27_091909_AF_26_19.jpg

Another scary moment for Heather Hudson:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-27_091946_AF_26_21.jpg

[pariah-1972]

I adore the look on Aurora's face as she ponders whether she loved Langkowski for his body, or mind. Pure hilarity.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-20_090230_AF_25_22.jpg

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-27_091734_AF_26_02.jpg

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-03-27_091734_AF_26_02.jpg

I love that haircut ! noone has ever drawn her as sexxily as Byrne has.

She's a minx that one.

Can't really blame her for not wanting to date a guy stuck in a bulky robot, i mean can you imagine what the sex would be like :eek:

[pariah-1972]

I never heard this either...I would love to hear more details on it.Ahh well i found it on wiki .. anyways Byrne got mad at Peter David for spoiling the death of Guardian to some Industry people at a comic book convention and he says he did it on purpose for some unbeknownst reason since Peter wasn't a writer back then .

[escapegoat]

Ahh well i found it on wiki .. anyways Byrne got mad at Peter David for spoiling the death of Guardian to some Industry people at a comic book convention and he says he did it on purpose for some unbeknownst reason since Peter wasn't a writer back then .

Here's the actual details from Peter David on the matter.

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2006/08/31/fight-byrne-vs-david/

[pariah-1972]

Here's the actual details from Peter David on the matter.

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2006/08/31/fight-byrne-vs-david/

Thank you i was going thru hell trying to find it !

[david r]

John Byrne greetings for Peter David to his home:

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/photos/images/jbguns03.jpg


:smile:

[pariah-1972]

John Byrne greetings for Peter David to his home:

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/photos/images/jbguns03.jpg


:smile:Thats a pretty scary sight .

I didn't know he was into guns.

[b4ustandsi]

I never knew Byrne and David had an ongoing dispute since the '80s? And what are these about?
surpassing PAD v. Larsen or even Larsen v. Liefeld!

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/41319167562.313.GIF

Incredible Hulk #313

"Hook, Line and Sinker"

Alpha Flight make a side journey to the green-hued behemoth, named the Hulk! Hulk smash puny Canadians!!

Bruce Banner and his monstrous alter-ego are trapped in the Crossroads. A dimensional "time-out", with many doorways leading to other worlds...but none to Earth. The Hulk was banished to the Crossroads in Incredible Hulk #300 by Doctor Strange, because Hulk had gone completely savage. Standing at the mouth of the Crossroads, (with a cool tree that has multiple arms pointing in different directions,) Hulk is seized by a red beam of light. Which cuts into his back and spinal cord. The Hulk goes berserk, trying to rid this beam from him, and he smashes his way through several worlds, via the dimensional Crossroads. Where did the beam come from? Hulk doesn't know, but all he wants is to SMASH BEAM and set him free!

Finally, the origin of the beam becomes apparent. It is emanating from Earth, and the astral form of Walter Langkowski appears at the Crossroads. Langkowski's astral form actually *enters* the Hulk, kicking Bruce Banner's essence out of his own body. Langkowski (the former Sasquatch ) takes complete control over the green-skinned Hulk, and tells Banner (floating in his astral form) that his teammates in Alpha Flight sent out that beam of light to find a contact they had made. They were looking for a suitable physical body for Langkowski to inhabit, now that his his real body, and Sasquatch, is dead. Banner & Langkowski have a bizarre reunion here, both being college buddies and friends. Bruce says that Walter can keep the Hulk body, as Banner does NOT relish continuing his life with his monster alter ego. Banner is prepared to die. But Langkowski simply cannot condone basically killing Bruce Banner, in order for Walter to gain a new body. Walter say that Banner, and the Hulk, are heroes. Langkowski now exits his astral body from the giant brute. Banner's astral essence is pulled back in, though Banner tries to stop it. Walter's astral essence slowly begins to dissipate, as the red beam of light now grabs the Hulk and pulls him through more dimensional vortexes and psychedelic worlds. The Hulk finally arrives at a doorway, and there stand Alpha Flight, with the robot Box holding the "harpoon" that is holding the energy "fishing hook" which has caught the Hulk. Alpha are shocked to see the incredible Hulk enter. And the Hulk is VERY ANGRY at these people for hurting him!!

My thoughts: Ok, so this may be the long way around to AF #28 and 29, but I wanted to include this issue as it reunites Banner and Langkowski (which I thought was interesting). And shows us how Alpha Flight find the Hulk and bring him back to Earth. After a year in exile. The art by Mike Mignola was exotic and memorable, I felt. Walter Langkowski shows the makings of a true hero here. I cannot wait to see Alpha Flight versus the Incredible Hulk!

[Nevets F]

I am really glad that you included this issue, it is a pretty integral part in my mind.

I am glad you enjoyed the art, since this is the new creative team stepping in with issue 29.

[limerick]

Didn't Marvel basically do a straight swap of the writer/artist teams?Does anyone know the reason for it as it seemed an unusual move?

[Nevets F]

Didn't Marvel basically do a straight swap of the writer/artist teams?Does anyone know the reason for it as it seemed an unusual move?

They did, but I don't know the reasons behind it.

[david r]

I believe the main reason for the swap was John Byrne wanted off Alpha Flight. Byrne didn't feel his talents were being put to good use, and he desired to do a "Core" Marvel book like the Hulk. Incredible Hulk was selling terrible, so when Byrne mentioned his desire to do the Hulk, editor-in-chief Jim Shooter jumped at the chance.

Bill Mantlo was interested in Alpha Flight, so the straight creator-team swap was on!

[david r]

These last few issues have been so good, I wonder if John Byrne was letting loose with his cool ideas all at once, knowing he was off this book soon?

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-04-03_084956_AF_27_23.jpg

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-04-03_084620_AF_27_01.jpg

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.28.GIF

Alpha Flight #28

"Cross-Over"

It's the end of an era, as John Byrne leaves the team he co-created, never to return. Byrne is leaving for greener pastures, :wink: but he goes out with another BANG! Take a bow, John. You may not have liked Alpha Flight, but you had one fantastic run!

The first part of this issue has Omega Flight fighting among themselves, outside the West Edmonton Mall. The team are confronted by this mystery "Mr. Jeffries", whom Courtney Delphine is very terrified of. Courtney still sports the Guardian uniform and disguise she wore in her bid to crush Alpha Flight, once and for all. Jeffries has a past with these bad guys, and has the super-power to manipulate machinery. He has a particular plan for Courtney, who is nothing but a robot. Jeffries uses his power to destroy her, right in the mall's parking lot. (She had it coming!) The rest of Omega are apprehended by the police.

Jeffries enters the large mall to find Alpha Flight meeting with the Beyonder. The Godlike being has rescued Talisman from the dimensions she was trapped in, following the awesome AF #27. The Beyonder disappears. Talisman is happy to be among the living again. However, she punches out her father, Shaman, for promising to save her in #27---and not! Talisman's eyes grow red (looking similiar to Dark Phoenix IMO) and teleports the entire team away from her, in a fit of anger. Alpha Flight appear again back in Vancouver, in their leased facility. Shaman's emotions are running high, which is unusual since he is usually mature & responsible. Heather calls for a two-hour time out, to unwind and clear their thoughts. Heather (doing a superb handling the shock of learning her resurrected husband was just a robot) takes a leisurely bubble-bath. Heather spends the time not thinking about her recent loss, but over her worries over Shaman. Shaman being the one Alphan she could count on for support and who had leadership skills. She worries the situation with Talisman has triggered an emotional regression in him.

The final act now happens, as Heather enters the group's lab, to discover the team are using some kind of a "fishing hook" to enter different dimensions and locate a new, suitable body for Walt Langkowski, the ex-Sasquatch, to inhabit. Heather is royally pissed, for NOT being informed of this. She finds it incredibly dangerous and orders Alpha to stop this. They ignore her (!!!!) and proceed with the mission. They find a body and Walt's spirit leaves the giant robot Box and vanishes into the ether. Soon, this new form arrives via the dimensional vortex. He's green. He's mean. He's not Walter. He's the Incredible HULK! Hulk leaps forward and smashes his fist, crushing Box's right shoulder!!

My thoughts: And John Byrne exits, stage left!! A seminal run on Alpha Flight ends with another member getting smashed (poor Box there.) Was this Byrne's sneaky way of "crushing" Alpha in his affections? As usual, Byrne's art & writing were exceptional. This issue doesn't feel rushed at all, trying to wrap up a few loose ends (Omega Flight. Talisman.) The cover was gorgeous!! Byrne may have been hinting to some future stories he planned in #28: Shaman having a nervous breakdown, and the team IGNORING their all-too human leader, Heather Hudson. I was frankly floored at how Alpha treated Heather when she ordered them to stand-down. I suspect Byrne might have gone in those directions. But as for this book overall, John got me to care about these Canadian heroes. He delivered several jaw-dropping shockers which I'll always remember. And he seemed intent on continually uprooting the team & dropping members at a drop of a hat. The constant feel of re-invention was one thing I liked about this run. I hope Marvel reprints all these issues, as mutant fans really deserve to enjoy Byrne's run in it's entirety. I dearly wished Marinna had returned, but oh well. I think my fave parts were the beginning, Sasquath's battle with the Super-Skrull, the Master/Puck/Namor arc, and #23-28 which ramped AF up to whole another level.

[Nevets F]

Truly was a great run!

David, I have a sneaking suspicion that you will enjoy issues 39 and 40 (as well as the Avengers issues it crosses over with). I know that is more than ten issues away, but something in this summary made me want to tell you that. ;)

[david r]

Flashback certainly got screwed. What a horrible way to go! A "future self" of you is killed, and you never know when "you" will reach that point, and croak. Should I scream or laugh? :eek:

---The Beyonder played a minimal role in #28; there was no reason he should take so much cover space.

--- Heather Hudson looked like she'd have her work cut out for her. Having no powers would become a detriment for her.

---I wonder if Mr. Jeffries was to join the group?

[Nevets F]

Flashback certainly got screwed. What a horrible way to go! A "future self" of you is killed, and you never know when "you" will reach that point, and croak. Should I scream or laugh? :eek:


and they DO actually follow up with this story...one day...a long long time from now...

[Zero Hunter]

Flashback certainly got screwed. What a horrible way to go! A "future self" of you is killed, and you never know when "you" will reach that point, and croak. Should I scream or laugh? :eek:

---The Beyonder played a minimal role in #28; there was no reason he should take so much cover space.

--- Heather Hudson looked like she'd have her work cut out for her. Having no powers would become a detriment for her.

---I wonder if Mr. Jeffries was to join the group?

Maddison Jeffries quickly becomes one of my favorite charaters after this issue. He had made one small cameo in the book before in the pictures in Alpha Flight issue 1 with the rest of Beta and Gamma Flights.

[Danny Wall]

Wow! I haven't checked in for a while, and there's like three more pages in this thread! And it features some great AF moments. I was still new to the Flight (and Marvel in general) that everything seemed fresh and exciting, with character interactions so natural and "established" even tho most of the characters were relatively new. I loved Omega Flight, and Jeffries was way too cool. I always hoped that Flashback would come back, with some very interesting motivation because of his "future self" having died.

[david r]

Danny Wall, Yes, these last few issues have been extraordinary! I agree with all of your comments (and Flashback apparently DOES return!) I think John Byrne had a superb run, showing us he wasn't just a superlative artist, but a damn good writer as well. He showed me he has an active imagination to rival other Marvel creators of the time. Alpha Flight really came to life.

Flashback's macabre death:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-04-10_084634_AF_28_07.jpg

Mr. Jeffries destroys the Guardian traitor:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-04-10_084655_AF_28_08.jpg

Talisman is rescued, and punches Shaman's lights out!:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-04-10_084732_AF_28_12.jpg

Hulk smash puny Alpha Flight!!

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-04-10_084919_AF_28_22.jpg

[limerick]

Maddison Jeffries quickly becomes one of my favorite charaters after this issue. He had made one small cameo in the book before in the pictures in Alpha Flight issue 1 with the rest of Beta and Gamma Flights.
Jefferies appears like Magneto-lite here .I don't mean that in a bad way.He seems by far one of the most powerful of the "Flight" programme.Anyone know why he wasn't in Alpha Flight.Was he in Beta or Gamma when the programme was shut down?

[Nevets F]

Jefferies appears like Magneto-lite here .I don't mean that in a bad way.He seems by far one of the most powerful of the "Flight" programme.Anyone know why he wasn't in Alpha Flight.Was he in Beta or Gamma when the programme was shut down?

Jefferies was still in Gamma when the program was shut down. We learn later more about why he was not yet moved into the higher Flight programs.

[limerick]

Jefferies was still in Gamma when the program was shut down. We learn later more about why he was not yet moved into the higher Flight programs.
Cheers for that Steven.

[Zero Hunter]

I really wish some writer would save the character of Maddison Jeffries from the mess he was left in after the Weapon X series. He is just too good a chraracter to be left like he was at the end of that series.

[Danny Wall]

I really wish some writer would save the character of Maddison Jeffries from the mess he was left in after the Weapon X series. He is just too good a chraracter to be left like he was at the end of that series.

I certainly wouldn't want to wish Jeffries' fate on any character, that's for sure. I think he often got regulated to "dump on me" status because writers never seemed to really know what to do with him. Without an arc of his very own, he fell victim to many outside forces bearing down on him. In Weapon X, in particular, he was little more than a plot device because his powers were convenient to exploit. Character was secondary.

In a way, Jeffries' character was ahead of its time. He was a blue collar, everyman hero whose powers could certainly let him be one of the Big Players but he was completely down to earth. Fits right in with many things done by Busiek and Bendis and Loeb and others in more recent years.

[Imraith Nimphais]

If ever they do re-launch AF...Maddison should most definitely be a team member...he was always one of my favs too...(truth to tell...I kinda sorta fell in love with his name...Maddison Jeffries...I liked the way it rolled off the British tongue)...lol

[Nevets F]

I agree with the last few posts regarding Madison. Really, a facinating, great character, totally abused every since AF vol1 ended.

I guess we are getting ahead of ourselves, since he was just introduced. :P

[david r]

John Byrne on his dislike for Alpha Flight:

Alpha Flight (the team) were never really meant to be anything more than a bunch of superheroes who could survive a fight with the X-Men. They had no real depth, and I resisted suggestions that they get their own book for a couple of years. Then, finally, realizing Marvel would probably get someone else to do it, if I didn't, I relented and agreed. (Sidebar: ALPHA FLIGHT #1 was the biggest selling comic of its day -- 500,000 copies!!)

Down through the years, a number of Gay fans have approached me to say "thanks" for ALPHA FLIGHT and NorthStar, so I suppose it justifies its existence in that way -- but as a whole, except for a couple of bright moments, the book just never gelled for me, art- or story-wise. (4/4/98)

On the creation of Alpha Flight (Chris Claremont created the name!):

Several members of what became Alpha Flight date back to my fan days. Guardian is chief among them, being created when I was in my early 20s as the figurehead of a whole line of "Canadian comics" I was hoping to produce. Snowbird, in very different form, was born around the same time. Shaman, originally called Chinook (he had only weather-controlling powers) came next. (There was also a character called Phoenix. No chance he would ever have made it into Alpha Flight!)

When I was assigned the gig of penciling UNCANNY X-MEN, Chris Claremont mentioned that Dave Cockrum had an idea that the Canadian government probably would not be too thrilled to see their multi-million dollar investment -- Wolverine -- head south as had so many other Canadian resources. Surely, he suggested, Ottawa would send somebody, perhaps even a team, to get him back. This sounded like a great idea, to me, and, of course, I had just the characters to do it. We decided to start with just one, tho, the leader of the group. Since Marvel at that time was publishing GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY the Powers that Were nixed the name Guardian, and since my backup, the Canadian Shield, was equally problematic in the Marvel Universe, he was without a name for a while. Chris took to calling him "Major Mapleleaf", and Roger Stern said we'd better come up with a name before that one stuck. Chris then tacked on "Vindicator", which absolutely did not work for me. What does Canada need to "vindicate"? I began pushing for the restoration of Guardian, and eventually pushed that thru.

Before that happened, tho, we had our "sequel" to do, with that group of Canadians coming down to reclaim Wolverine. I dropped in the renamed (and power enhanced) Shaman and a redesigned Snowbird, and came up with Northstar and Aurora (super speed to counter Nightcrawler's teleportation), and Sasquatch (to balance Colossus) and off we went. In the process I came up with real names and some backstory for each.

But in my mind, Alpha Flight existed only as a team assembled to fight the X-Men. When Marvel asked for an Alpha series, I resisted for a long time. I just didn't see much that could be done with them. (7/16/2008)

Was Northstar always meant to be gay?

When I created Alpha Flight they were basically half a dozen characters who could survive a prolonged battle with the X-Men. They had very little depth -- tho I am a compulsive creator of backstory, so I knew something about their histories even then -- and were not really created with any thought toward them eventually getting their own title.
Unfortunately (?) they proved enormously popular, and so Marvel began pushing me to do an ALPHA FLIGHT book. Eventually I relented, and agreed to do the series -- which meant I had one problem instantly: I had to find ways to make those characters more three dimensional.

One of the things that popped immediately into my head was to make one of them Gay. I had recently read an article in SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN on what was then (the early 80s) fairly radical new thinking on just what processes caused a person to be homosexual, and the evidence was pointing increasingly to it being genetic and not environmental factors. So, I thought, it seemed like it was time for a Gay superhero, and since I was being "forced" to make ALPHA FLIGHT a real series, I might as well make one of them Gay.

From there, it was a process of elimination. I didn't want the homosexual character to be one of the girls, since that was something people tended to associate (rightly or wrongly) with Claremont books. Mac Hudson and Heather were happily married and I did not want to mess with that. Michael was widowed with a daughter, and that way lay what I considered too much of a cliche, if he turned out to be Gay. Besides, as a Native Canadian he was already the resident "minority". The new guy, Puck, had his own set of problems. Sasquatach would be just too damn scary!! So I settled on Jean-Paul, and the moment I did I realized it was already there. Somewhere in the back of my mind I must have been considering making him Gay before I "decided" to so so.

Of course, the temper of the times, the Powers That Were and, naturally, the Comics Code would not let me come right out and state that Jean-Paul was homosexual, but I managed to "get the word out" even with those barriers. (8/24/2004)

[Cub]

Originally Posted by John Byrne
I didn't want the homosexual character to be one fo the girls, since that was something people tended to associate (rightly or wrongly) with Claremont books.

How uncharacteristically diplomatic (and accurate) of him!

[david r]

John Byrne's Final Flight:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/RyanMaxwell/2008-04-10_084937_AF_28_23.jpg

[Cub]

I don't use the word "humdinger" nearly enough in my day to day vocabulary.

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.29.GIF

Alpha Flight #29

"Cut Bait and Run"

The Incredible Hulk goes all-out against Alpha Flight....and the city of Vancouver is nearly destroyed. The team really struggled at containing the green behemoth. It seems a trifle ridiculous when Puck can bounce around and hold his own against the Hulk. That just simply shouldn't be. The large robot Box gets pretty smashed up, but mutant Madison Jeffries fixes him up. Shaman is having a crisis of conscience, and loses his ability to use his magic medicine pouch. I was surprised by how bad Shaman is taking his troubles. Alpha try to contain the raging Hulk, first in their base, then in Vancouver, but no one really has the chops to stop him. The only candidate is Sasquatch, but he's dead.

There is a rather silly moment where we learn that Northstar apparently loves Walt Langkowski. This came completely out-of-left field, and didn't seem right to me. Jean-Paul shedding a tear? Heather Hudson stands her ground against Hulk, but she is totally outmatched. Only Snowbird saves the day, as she swoops in and turns into the furry beastial form of Tanaraq. The 2 beasts fight, and finally the Hulk leaps away, back in the United States. Snowbird's fear of leaving the Canadian Provinces stops her from pursuit. Alpha Flight are pretty roughed up, and is Vancouver. But they survived. Their old government liaison shows up, Gary Cody, and announces that Department H is up and running again. And Alpha Flight are once again, under the protection of Canada!! YESSS!

My thoughts: The battle with the Incredible Hulk was exciting. Though Puck holding his own against Hulk was stretching credibility. I found a few character ticks not to my liking (Northstar's professed love, Shaman TOO guilt-stricken) but overall, Marvel did an okay job handling AF (following John Byrne's departure.) I DID miss Byrne's artwork, and did not care much for Mike Mignola's work. I did like when Snowbird came to the rescue. (And hope Alpha have not forgotten about poor Walter Langkowski.)

[david r]

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/cover-ah/images/ah76.jpg

Byrne redraws X-Men vs. Alpha Flight:

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/commissions-large2006/large/X-Alpha600.jpg

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/commissions-poses2007/images/Shaman_copy.png

[david r]

Ultron: I wonder if this one was planned for a future storyline by Byrne? Notice the change to Snowbird ?

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/commissions-standard/images/2008-09-05_122419_UltronTime.jpg

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/sketch-marvel/images/sasquatch.jpg

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/muhandbook/images/mu_puck.jpg

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/muhandbook/images/mu_alphaflight_heads.jpg

[Pixie_Solanas]

I have to admit, I hated when Byrne stuck Langkowski in the Box armor, and I still do.

Sasquatch>>>>>>Box, not even close.

[Cub]

Not that I don't think Byrne isn't talented, but sometimes, when someone's just consistently great, you tend to take it for granted and aren't as awed by their talent. But that spread of the x-men/alpha flight fight really is just gorgeous.

[Danny Wall]

Byrne was definitely inspirational to me. I had just started getting into comics in early junior high, and Byrne (especially the Byrne/Austin team-up, which I didn't realize until much, much later) always seemed the pinnacle of comic book art. I even wrote a letter to him for a class assignment that required us to try to correspond with a professional in an industry we wanted to work in when we were "grown up." Never got the response, but I think that was normal. At least, I wasn't broken up about it.

Flashforward a lifetime or so later, and actually got to draw a comic book cover in homage to Byrne's classic Days of Future Past X-Men cover.
http://www.comicvine.com/wonderland-wonderland/37-48166/
So at least there's that closure.

[Danny Wall]

And how 80s-tastic does Heather look in that Mantlo cover, above?! It's funny how it seemed very natural at the time, but looking at it 20 years later, it's horribly, horribly dated.

Incidentally, where does that Puck pic ("Puck pic?") come from? Something about it seems... off

[Pixie_Solanas]

And how 80s-tastic does Heather look in that Mantlo cover, above?! It's funny how it seemed very natural at the time, but looking at it 20 years later, it's horribly, horribly dated.

Incidentally, where does that Puck pic ("Puck pic?") come from? Something about it seems... off

Aside from the goofy sunglasses, I think Heather looks actually very chic. Fashion forward, if you will.

High waited pants, boots, and short, cropped jackets are uberhot.

[Danny Wall]

Aside from the goofy sunglasses, I think Heather looks actually very chic. Fashion forward, if you will.

High waited pants, boots, and short, cropped jackets are uberhot.

Really? I think the sunglasses are the only thing that looks fashion forward to me!

Maybe if the color scheme of blue, purple, orange and yellow was less garish? Maybe if the jacket wasn't so Members Only, especially that wide collar? Maybe if things weren't tucked into gloves or boots? Shrug. I guess there is some things to appreciate about the 80s, but fashion (and music) aren't some of them. As always, YMMV!

[david r]

Danny Wall, That "Puck pic" was just an individual drawing by John Byrne. I got it at his site. Not sure when he drew it. Like you, I've loved Byrne for a long time. Not just his artwork, but his writing as well. I think Alpha Flight has some of his best writing. Many twists and turns. I'd say he was on a par with Chris Claremont and other top writers of the mid-1980s. Byrne would come up with stuff I'd never dream of.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/42297-6729-48166-1-wonderland_super.jpg

This looks incredible. I have never heard of this book before. And am a huge fan of the Alice in Wonderland story. What is it about?

[pariah-1972]

Really? I think the sunglasses are the only thing that looks fashion forward to me!

Maybe if the color scheme of blue, purple, orange and yellow was less garish? Maybe if the jacket wasn't so Members Only, especially that wide collar? Maybe if things weren't tucked into gloves or boots? Shrug. I guess there is some things to appreciate about the 80s, but fashion (and music) aren't some of them. As always, YMMV!She looks like she is about to go snow skiing.

[Danny Wall]

This looks incredible. I have never heard of this book before. And am a huge fan of the Alice in Wonderland story. What is it about?

Threadjack!
Wonderland was a miniseries spin-off of Caliber Comics/Arrow Comics' OZ series (a.k.a. Dark OZ). Dorothy from Oz found herself in Wonderland, where she joined Alice and her freedom fighters against the Queen of Hearts. At the risk of editorializing, this series (as did Arrow Comics in general) was a victim of two trends of the 90s-- the black-and-white boom and the crossover gimmick-- and the comics weren't really made better because of them. I love all things Wonderland, too, so I loved helping design the thing, but it *was* one of my first professional things I ever did, and it shows.

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread....

On topic-- Heather Hudson's 80s threads will have nothing on the Purple Girl in a few issues! Welcome to Alpha Flight, where everyone's a Material Girl!

[david r]

Wonderland sounds fascinating. Danny Wall, you don't seem too enthused, but I'm intrigued enough to hunt through my comics shop for it. I need my Alice fix. :smile: Arrow Comics---never heard of them, but am always sad to hear of a publisher going under like that.

As for Heather Hudson, I notice her wearing those large, dark glasses ever since she assumed leadership. I wonder if Heather is trying to express strength with the look. (She DOES resemble a snow-skier though! :biggrin: )

[RolandJP]

I am enjoying this thread. Nice work guys

[Nevets F]

I think Heather's glasses are a form of protective wear. Better than wearing just normal glasses.

[david r]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/8/85/Vindicator_002.jpg

[Danny Wall]

Well, now you're just getting ahead of yourself, there! I liked the fact that for many months, Heather was a fully functioning member of a team (a leader, even!) with no superpowers at all. Yet another way in which Alpha Flight was a team book unlike any other. That said, her transition into Vindicator was natural and and gradual that it made complete sense.

In regards to the goggles, it's neat that it's functional as well as part of a costume-- I believe she is nearsighted? Not to many heroes have such obvious "weaknesses." Even Hawkeye had to wear a hearing aid for many years after doing battle with... uh... I forget!

Now everyone go track down Wonderland!!! (J/K. I thought I ought to sound more enthusiastic about it.)

(Incidentally, I recognize that picture as one I created for my old Marvel Universe website. I'm proud to say that it was one of the first such sites during the early days of the internet, and I always laugh about often I see pic files from that site all over the web even today.)

[Nevets F]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/8/85/Vindicator_002.jpg

Spoilers David! :O

[escapegoat]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/8/85/Vindicator_002.jpg

Huh? What happened to Mac?!?!

:tongue:

[david r]

Ooops! What can I say about that picture. I was only looking at her glasses!! Promise!! :biggrin:

[Nevets F]

Alpha Flight is totally getting lonely. ;)

:D

[limerick]

Steven,has your avatar been in a scrap?!

[david r]

steven,has your avatar benn in a scrap?!

Steven, I hope there wasn't a disagreement at home, and the frying pan started swinging!!! :redface: :smile:

[limerick]

Steven,has your avatar been in a scrap?!
And now WBE's avatar---am i missing something,guys?

[Nevets F]

Mine was a joke in response to the lady who said she had been attacked by an Obama supporter, but it turned out she was lying and carved a backwards B into her own face and black her own eye. So, I decided to carve a backwards P (for Palin) and black my eye. :P

I haven't looked closely at WBE, but I think his was in honor of upcoming Storm week.

[limerick]

Mine was a joke in response to the lady who said she had been attacked by an Obama supporter, but it turned out she was lying and carved a backwards B into her own face and black her own eye. So, I decided to carve a backwards P (for Palin) and black my eye. :P

I haven't looked closely at WBE, but I think his was in honor of upcoming Storm week.
Cheers for explanation!Missed that news story--she carved it backwards while looking in the mirror?Wow.Dense.

[Nevets F]

Cheers for explanation!Missed that news story--she carved it backwards while looking in the mirror?Wow.Dense.

Exactly! That was the worst/most funny part, lol.

[pariah-1972]

I'm not sure if that makes her stupid or crazy or both:eek:

[david r]

http://image2.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.30.GIF

Alpha Flight #30

"Enter...Scramble!"

1st appearance: Scramble (Lionel Jeffries)

Alpha Flight have a new home: the mysterious Victorian home owned by Walter Langkowski's family, first shown in AF #20. It rests on Tamarind Island. The surrounding area looks very fertile with trees and many waterways. As equipment is installed into the house, as Heather Hudson tells Canadian government liaison Gary Cody it was her husband's wish to see Alpha Flight funded again, and back in action. Gary says Canada now realizes that Alpha Flight can be a super-team "player" on the world stage, alongside other superhero groups. Puck wonders if this is all happening because the gov't want to keep tabs on this group. Heather soon finds Madison Jeffries (is he a member now?) and wheelchair bound Roger Bochs making a new electromagnetic suit. Heather initially dislikes this, but then thinks it may boost their power level, and ponders which member should wear it.

Looking for new members, Heather learns that Madison has a younger brother, named Lionel Jeffries, and thinks he's a doctor at a hospital. Heather travels to the hospital to recruit him, only to discover he is actually a patient there. Lionel has gone INSANE!! Heather touches him, and it unleashes some power within Lionel. He mutates poor Heather, calls himself Scramble and then goes berserk in the hospital, mutating many patients there. Alpha Flight are called in to aid their leader, and Madison Jeffries tells them the sob story of his brother. Something gruesome happened to him in Vietnam, in the army (couldn't pull together body parts of his squad) and this drove him nuts! Alpha search and locate Lionel, and a mighty battle ensues. Madison finally conquers all, confronting his sibling and making his brother use his flesh powers to "Re-adjust" his dementia. All is not well though, as one particular body, made up of different body parts, rises from a slab and the huge body shuffles off to parts unknown!!

My thoughts: This issue was good, not great. I thought it a little odd that Heather would go "hero-shopping" and look up Madison Jeffries' brother. Scramble certainly has a gross, weird power, like creating zombies. I rather like the old Langkowski Mansion being turned into a homebase for Alpha, and hope we see more of it. I remember Walt wanting to use it from #20, and am glad they followed up on that idea. I can tell the new writer (Bill Mantlo) wants to take AF into a different direction, allied with the gov't. This could prove intriguing. However, John Byrne's artwork is sorely missed. I am not feeling it for the current work displayed here.

[Nevets F]

This issue, and a couple more are not exactly my favs...part of the reason is the artwork. So jarring after Byrne. However, some good stuff is coming up (in my opinion) with guest stars and a crossover with a title (not called X-Men) featuring the return of a certain fav of yours. ;)

And...WELCOME BACK!!! I missed this thread!!

EDIT: Also, by that point I am talking about...the art has gotten better. :)

[Danny Wall]

I can remember being less than thrilled by the art. As I said, I was a Byrne-fan like no other, and the switch was really jarring. At the time, I had a subscription, and I imagine that if I didn't have a subscription, I would have dropped this. (IIRC, there really wasn't a local comic book shop at this time, and most of comics were purchased on the rack at the bookstore or convenience store.) But the tragedy and momentum of the storylines were really intriguing, and that was the most "seamless" of the creative team transition. So, subscription aside, I was totally caught up in the characters and storylines that I wouldn't ever think of dropping the title. It's rare that I feel that way about a comic. (In case this thread doesn't make it that far, it took me until the utterly horrendous artwork around the time of Acts of Vengeance and the utterly horrendous Llan the Sorcerer story arc that made me drop Alpha Flight-- it had finally become something unrecognizable.)

[Pixie_Solanas]

I gave up on the series when Mantlo came aboard. The change was too jarring for me.

[david r]

So the impression I'm getting from everyone's comments, is the next several issues are a low-point. But eventually, there is an upswing back to quality stories. Is that a fair assessment of what happens with Alpha Flight?

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.31.GIF

Alpha Flight #31

"The Grateful Dead"

Deadly Ernest is back!! His was the body resurrected by Scramble last issue, and he plods through the crowds of Montreal, Canada, preparing to seek revenge on the only person whose succesfully "killed" him. Deadly Ernest kills someone to get his clothes, and this alerts Nemesis that her hated enemy is alive. Nemesis leaps into the air shouting she will kill Deadly Ernest again!! Meanwhile, our team from Canada, Alpha Flight, are still hanging with Lionel Jeffries, wishing he would join them. But Lionel would rather open a medical clinic! Puck also has a bad bout of pain, which Lionel cannot help him with. Puck says he is used to living with pain inside. That over with, Alpha learn of the murdered man by Ernest, and learning of his history, take off to stop him! They meet up with Nemesis in an alley, and find Deadly Ernest, and the battle begins!!

Northstar, Aurora and Box all fall before Ernest's touch, and Heather Hudson is captured as the villain heads down a tunnel. Nemesis gives Puck her sword, and he rushes off after Heather. While Nemesis will stay behind to help the wounded. Puck locates his prey, and a rousing fight takes place. Puck actually slices off his hands and head!! Yuck! Then a speeding train slams into Deadly Ernest's body....and that's all she wrote!! Nemesis arrives and we learn that Nemesis is Ernest's daughter! Nemesis says that her mission is over, and to my surprise, she vanishes into dust, leaving behind her sword and uniform!!

Meanwhile, Snowbird and her human lover, Doug Thompson, are flying through the air looking for the lost Shaman. Narya is caught by surprise by a bolt of pain, and drops Doug. He nearly falls to his death, before Shaman rescues him! However, Shaman himself arrives at the cabin he spent 10 years of his life in isolation. (Though he doesn't understand how the cabin can be here, since it's actually hundreds of miles away.) His grandfather's spirit comes to him, and Michael Twoyoungmen wishes his powers returned to him. Both Michael and the skull of his grandfather....disappear!!

My thoughts: I liked the return of Nemesis. I especially like her costume and design. However, I was surprised by her death at issue's end. I found her story, and death, sad and maybe a waste of a good character who showed promise. (However, her blade remains, so you never know!!) Deadly Ernest was okay, though not a terribly great villain. I think they just brought him back to return Nemesis. I am highly interested in Shaman and what is going on with him. Is he on a visionquest? I liked this issue more than #30.

[Nevets F]

I agree that this issue is better than the previous one. Wasn't it a shock to see Nemesis die at the end? Without spoiling too much...I can say...her story is not yet totally over. ;)

You are about to get to some issues I really enjoy David. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, the return of a favorite of yours, a crossover with a team and book that is NOT X-Men, and a new member or two all coming down the line soon. Even a happy ending (that another book ruins later on, lol)

[Imraith Nimphais]

Eventhough Mantlo's writing was certainly different (the JB fella really spoiled us rotten...hehe) the team felt cohesive...at this time, though frought with high "drama"...and I quite liked Mignola's distinctive style...though at the time, I kept wishing that the inker on the cover also inked the pages...his lines are more clean and crisp...but overall a nice story...though it lacked a certain something that would have given it more....resonance?...reading it now, it is still difficult to put into words just exactly wot made it different.

[b4ustandsi]

mignola drew that? i remember seeing his work on some marvel 1990s stuff and his hellboy. he had a better style in AF

[Pixie_Solanas]

mignola drew that? i remember seeing his work on some marvel 1990s stuff and his hellboy. he had a better style in AF

Yep. Mignola had a radically different style back then (more traditional?). I liked it better than his Hellboy art, for sure.

If i'm not mistaken, he did a few issues of Uncanny back in the early-mid 80s, too.

[david r]

Steven, I was so glad to see Nemesis back. Her death floored me! I am glad she may return, and am curious how that will work. (I like your hints about upcoming stuff.)

Mignola's style is certainly different than Byrne. I really like his work on Incredible Hulk, but it seems out-of-place in this book IMO. Along with Bill Mantlo's writing, the book feels less "full" than when John Byrne was on it.

---I feel sorry for Puck being in almost constant pain. Judd mentioned once he is an old friend with pain. I wonder if this pain will be explored more?

[MartinRedmond]

Mantlo's run wasn't as good as Byrne. He undid alot of good stuff that made some characters stand out, which is unfortunate. But at least, it's still somewhat unique and disctinctive from other books. After that, I can't read it, because the artwork is just too awful past Mignola and Jim Lee.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I think I've figured out why I did not quite enjoy these current issues as much as I did JB's...the way JB's stories were written the plots overlapped each other, and throughout, there was a growing suspense, a build-up, as to wot would/might happen...even when the story was pretty "low-key", there was an intesity throughout the tale that made the "cliff-hanger" endings that made me anxious to read the next issue...Mantlo's stories do not leave me with a sense of expectation and anticipation at the end of the issues...his writing lacked the subtle depth and layers of JB's...there was no reader participation in terms of understanding and surmising wot was happening...as it was all laid out there for us. This is not to say he was/is a bad writer, but his style is vastly and noticeably different to wot we had become accustomed to on this book.

[david r]

Good points, Imrath. I was surprised what a good writer John Byrne was at this stage. Like you mentioned, he layered plots & character arcs. Most new writers aren't good at that yet, and yet JB pulled it off with seeming ease. Really, I felt his writing style was as good as Marvel's best from the 1980s. (Including Claremont's X-Men.)

[Babylon23]

For me, the most jarring change from Byrne to Mantlo was in the sudden cohesiveness of the team. Under Byrne, AF were a loosly knit group who rarely worked together. Most of his stories focus on 1-3 members at best, with the full team coming together rarely (I think only once or twice in his 28 issues).

As for Mignola, I actually liked his art on the series. He was my main reason for staying with the series after Byrne's departure. It soon became apparent that Mantlo wasn't the right person to take over the series (IMO of course) so I droped it around issue 32.

[schwamp]

Good points, Imrath. I was surprised what a good writer John Byrne was at this stage. Like you mentioned, he layered plots & character arcs. Most new writers aren't good at that yet, and yet JB pulled it off with seeming ease. Really, I felt his writing style was as good as Marvel's best from the 1980s. (Including Claremont's X-Men.)

Byrne was a veteran writer/artist at this point. You might like to check out his work on Charltons "Doomsday + 1", from the early 70's. He created, wrote and drew this short lived series. He also had a lot to do with co-plotting the direction of X-men with Claremont. I always liked both his art and writing. He had his misfires, I'm sure, but still managed to create a lot of memorable stories.

[david r]

Babylon23, I have noticed that Alpha Flight is fighting more often, as a cohesive team. This is a departure from John Byrne's vision for the book. I liked Byrne's unique idea because it was unlike any other superhero team I know of. I wait to see how Bill Mantlo's vision pans out.

schwamp, I've never heard of Doomsday + 1. I'm definitely interested in Byrne's output from the 1970s and 80s. :smile:

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.32.GIF

Alpha Flight #32

"Short Story"

1st appearance: Black Razer

In this issue, Heather Hudson dons her husband's costume!! She has become Guardian! Puck is not at all happy with this news. Heather has felt inadequate leading Alpha Flight, without any super-powers. Mac's power suit can now change that, and Heather wishes for Judd to help train her. "Make me a warrior!" she proclaims! The suit has been reworked by Roger Bochs & Madison Jeffries. The Canadian team have their own Danger Room, patterned after the X-Men's New York facility. The new Vindicator (Heather) and Puck go through the paces in this specially designed room. Heather loses her glasses in the fight. There is a mishap, and Judd saves Heather from getting fried. (Puck secretly loves her.) They have a spat, as Heather wants to be trained by the best,but Puck isn't interested. Bochs & Jeffries now enter and give Heather a new, unbreakable set of goggles which are tied into her power-suit. Puck says he doesn't want to help Heather, for she might get maimed. He is rather hard on Roger, saying what kind of help a cripple could give another cripple?

Judd leaves the proceedings, but is soon racked with excruciating pain. He realizes what he did in their last battle, in #31, is releasing "him". Soon, an evil sorceror named the Black Razer escapes from within Puck. The Black Razer was imprisoned inside of him! Once this occurs, Judd returns to his original, very tall size. We are told here that Puck is not actually a dwarf, but shrunken down by magic. The Black Razer now attacks Alpha Flight! Box and Northstar are both shrunken down in size. Puck tells Jeffries of how he first met the Black Razer, in 1939. It concerns the Black Blade of Baghdad. Judd goes to steal the Blade, thus releasing the evil magician hidden inside of it. The blade slices into the man-sized Judd, but instead of killing him, it shrinks him down to dwarf size, and steals some of his life essence. But that doesn't stop Judd, who attacks the Razer. Judd absorbs the Black Razer inside himself, making him a prisoner. But it shrinks Judd even further. And thus, we learn the secret of Puck!

Puck is now completely free of physical pain, but knows the Black Razer cannot be allowed to stay free. The tall Puck confronts Razer and uses the blade to again, imprison the sorceror inside him. At that instant, the life forces are returned to Box and Northstar, and they regain their regular height. Puck returns to his dwarf size, and his bad pain levels. However, the magical spell has given him an extended life--the only benefit. Puck collapses to the ground, with Alpha Flight standing around him.

[Nevets F]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.32.GIF

Alpha Flight #32

"Short Story"

1st appearance: Black Razer

In this issue, Heather Hudson dons her husband's costume!! She has become Guardian! Puck is not at all happy with this news. Heather has felt inadequate leading Alpha Flight, without any super-powers. Mac's power suit can now change that, and Heather wishes for Judd to help train her. "Make me a warrior!" she proclaims! The suit has been reworked by Roger Bochs & Madison Jeffries. The Canadian team have their own Danger Room, patterned after the X-Men's New York facility. The new Vindicator (Heather) and Puck go through the paces in this specially designed room. Heather loses her glasses in the fight. There is a mishap, and Judd saves Heather from getting fried. (Puck secretly loves her.) They have a spat, as Heather wants to be trained by the best,but Puck isn't interested. Bochs & Jeffries now enter and give Heather a new, unbreakable set of goggles which are tied into her power-suit. Puck says he doesn't want to help Heather, for she might get maimed. He is rather hard on Roger, saying what kind of help a cripple could give another cripple?

Judd leaves the proceedings, but is soon racked with excruciating pain. He realizes what he did in their last battle, in #31, is releasing "him". Soon, an evil sorceror named the Black Razer escapes from within Puck. The Black Razer was imprisoned inside of him! Once this occurs, Judd returns to his original, very tall size. We are told here that Puck is not actually a dwarf, but shrunken down by magic. The Black Razer now attacks Alpha Flight! Box and Northstar are both shrunken down in size. Puck tells Jeffries of how he first met the Black Razer, in 1939. It concerns the Black Blade of Baghdad. Judd goes to steal the Blade, thus releasing the evil magician hidden inside of it. The blade slices into the man-sized Judd, but instead of killing him, it shrinks him down to dwarf size, and steals some of his life essence. But that doesn't stop Judd, who attacks the Razer. Judd absorbs the Black Razer inside himself, making him a prisoner. But it shrinks Judd even further. And thus, we learn the secret of Puck!

Puck is now completely free of physical pain, but knows the Black Razer cannot be allowed to stay free. The tall Puck confronts Razer and uses the blade to again, imprison the sorceror inside him. At that instant, the life forces are returned to Box and Northstar, and they regain their regular height. Puck returns to his dwarf size, and his bad pain levels. However, the magical spell has given him an extended life--the only benefit. Puck collapses to the ground, with Alpha Flight standing around him.

I love the developments with Heather in this issue, what I do not like is the revelation that Puck was a drawf because of magic, instead of being a nartual drawf, which I think had more meaning. This is probably the thing I disliked most of the Mantlo run.

[limerick]

I love the developments with Heather in this issue, what I do not like is the revelation that Puck was a drawf because of magic, instead of being a nartual drawf, which I think had more meaning. This is probably the thing I disliked most of the Mantlo run.
Steven,you are so right.The Puck storyline is the worst plot Ive read in 30 years of comics!It's just hopeless,undoes great work by Byrne,deminishes Puck as a character and is frankly an insult to people with Dwarfism.Byrne rightly went mental when he saw the storyline.He was furious that Mantlo had interpreted Pucks Dwarfism induced pain mentioned in previous issues as having some other explanation--and the explanation he gives is such rubbish.

Due to high postage costs I bought the complete Alpha Flight run a few years ago in one shipment.I had been enjoying it until I read this issue.Mantlo's work is poor and I may have dropped the book after this issue if Ihad been reading the book as it was released

[limerick]

double post

[limerick]

laptop problems!

[limerick]

and more laptop problems

[limerick]

can you see a pattern emerging

[limerick]

Jeez--this is embarrassing.

[limerick]

Last one.Ipromise not to keep pressing the enter key until I get a response

[david r]

Limerick, Must have had a computer hiccup? HA! Or maybe Puck's origin story angered you so much you pounded the ENTER key too many times?? :biggrin:

My thoughts: Black Razer's and Puck's origin isn't bad, in and of itself. But like both of you, I am TERRIBLY disappointed in any reveal that Judd is a 6 foot tall man. It just somehow takes what is special about Puck away and diffuses a lot of the mystery of the man. I actually liked that Puck suffered from dwarf pain and had come to live with it. AF #32 completely ruined this for me, as well as shatter Puck's origin. I see now why several of you dislike Bill Mantlo's run. The writing seems more disjointed and less cohesive than John Byrne. I'm not surprised Byrne was outraged.

I am also unsure about Heather Hudson gaining the Guardian power-suit. It seemed Byrne wanted her to be team leader, minus powers. Now, this also has been altered. :frown:

[schwamp]

Last one.Ipromise not to keep pressing the enter key until I get a response

Sticky return key? but hey, that post count is running up!

[Nevets F]

Limerick, Must have had a computer hiccup? HA! Or maybe Puck's origin story angered you so much you pounded the ENTER key too many times?? :biggrin:

My thoughts: Black Razer's and Puck's origin isn't bad, in and of itself. But like both of you, I am TERRIBLY disappointed in any reveal that Judd is a 6 foot tall man. It just somehow takes what is special about Puck away and diffuses a lot of the mystery of the man. I actually liked that Puck suffered from dwarf pain and had come to live with it. AF #32 completely ruined this for me, as well as shatter Puck's origin. I see now why several of you dislike Bill Mantlo's run. The writing seems more disjointed and less cohesive than John Byrne. I'm not surprised Byrne was outraged.

I am also unsure about Heather Hudson gaining the Guardian power-suit. It seemed Byrne wanted her to be team leader, minus powers. Now, this also has been altered. :frown:

While I truly despise the Puck revelation, I think Mantlo's run starts turning a turn for the better right around the corner.

[Nevets F]

double post

laptop problems!

and more laptop problems

can you see a pattern emerging

Jeez--this is embarrassing.

Last one.Ipromise not to keep pressing the enter key until I get a response

LOL...this was awesome. :P

[limerick]

LOL...this was awesome. :P
Glad you got a laugh out of it--I thought I might be banned!

[limerick]

While I truly despise the Puck revelation, I think Mantlo's run starts turning a turn for the better right around the corner.
I agree with you on this.I do particularly enjoy developments with Mr. Jeffries.But I don't think any of the subsequent A. Flight writers ever GET Puck again which is a shame

[Babylon23]

I am also unsure about Heather Hudson gaining the Guardian power-suit. It seemed Byrne wanted her to be team leader, minus powers. Now, this also has been altered. :frown:

I hated this turn of events. It was one of my main reasons for dropping the book. Byrne had shown that Heather was the best leader for Alpha regardless of her lack of powers. A non-powered leader was another element that set Alpha Flight apart from the majority of the team books at the time. Mantlo seemed to be undoing everything that Byrne had set up and turned Alpha flight into another generic super team.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I hated this turn of events. It was one of my main reasons for dropping the book. Byrne had shown that Heather was the best leader for Alpha regardless of her lack of powers. A non-powered leader was another element that set Alpha Flight apart from the majority of the team books at the time. Mantlo seemed to be undoing everything that Byrne had set up and turned Alpha flight into another generic super team.

I definitely agree with these statements...yet another reason why I was not enjoying this run very much...I kept buying this title until not too distant future *developements* really made it seem like any other "generic super team" on the shelf.:frown:

[Nevets F]

I loved Heather from the start, and simply loved her becoming Vindicator.

[escapegoat]

Overall...I agree that Puck's origin story sucked because his uniqueness as a dwarf was taken away. I don't think Mantlo understood that dwarves naturally live with this type of pain, so he musta figured on making up this mystical nature to his origin to explain what Byrne referred to early on in this series.
I found Heather's progression into Vindicator to be a natural one, so it didn't bother me so much. Sure, it was unique to have a non-superpowered leader to the group, but her liabilities as such did extend back to the end of Byrne's run. Mantlo just went what seemed a likely scenario for her.

[Babylon23]

Here's John Byrne talking about the Puck situation and Mantlo in general:

JB: I gave Bill no tips nor insights on ALPHA -- because he said he didn't want any! He told me he had got himself a complete set of the series, and sat down and literally torn them apart, pasting pages and panels into a notebook so he would have a handy reference for each of the characters and subplots I'd developed.

Of course, he then went on to do the "origin" of Puck, with the whole "demon inside" thing being based, apparently, on the single reference Puck had made to being in constant pain, something which Bill failed to grasp was an effect of the condition -- achondroplasty, called by name in the same issue that referenced the pain -- which caused Puck's dwarfism. (This was a manifestation of something I used to call "Claremont-itis", before it came to infect almost everybody -- that manner of backstorying characters in such a way that absolutely no one, nowhere, is ever "normal".)

[Imraith Nimphais]

Here's John Byrne talking about the Puck situation and Mantlo in general:

JB: I gave Bill no tips nor insights on ALPHA -- because he said he didn't want any! He told me he had got himself a complete set of the series, and sat down and literally torn them apart, pasting pages and panels into a notebook so he would have a handy reference for each of the characters and subplots I'd developed.

Of course, he then went on to do the "origin" of Puck, with the whole "demon inside" thing being based, apparently, on the single reference Puck had made to being in constant pain, something which Bill failed to grasp was an effect of the condition -- achondroplasty, called by name in the same issue that referenced the pain -- which caused Puck's dwarfism. (This was a manifestation of something I used to call "Claremont-itis", before it came to infect almost everybody -- that manner of backstorying characters in such a way that absolutely no one, nowhere, is ever "normal".)

He does have a valid point...:wink:

[david r]

Babylon23 , That John Byrne quote is a good insight into his thoughts. I'm not surprised at all JB was furious. It seems to me Bill Mantlo should have done some better research. I am curious what the fans thought at the time.

I'm a big fan of Mantlo's Hulk and Micronauts runs. So I still have hopes it'll get better. :redface:

[Danny Wall]

Well, I'll be the voice of opposition I guess. I actually liked Puck's origin. The Black Blade of Baghdad, Raazar, it's seemingly unstoppablity coupled with a creepy side effect to waste his victims away-- sounds pretty cool. I'll also admit I didn't know of the medical condition that Byrne was alluding to (and I must have missed its name, too-- didn't realize it was in a previous comic until someone posted it here.)

Let's be honest-- can it *really* be a revamp if there was no previous origin published? And if Puck was really "just" a man with dwarfism, how does that justify his inclusion into the Alpha/Beta Flight programs? Shouldn't there be some other "specialness" that would make him a member? Department H wasn't just letting any athletic person join. Wouldn't it be just as offensive to say that a man with dwarfism is akin to a mutant or strange outsider fit for a group outside mainstream society?

I hope I'm being clear enough. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, just offering up some other points of view. It's easier today to guess at writer's motives and opinions, both because of hindsight and also the availability of information on the internet. But I doubt Mantlo was simply ignoring or even downright dismissing Byrne's idea. He probably thought it sounded like a good opportunity for adventure and ran with it.

Much in the same way Byrne thought that having Tigra succumb to her feral side in West Coast Avengers would be a good story (even tho she had already come to terms with this during Englehart's run.)

[Nevets F]

Well, I'll be the voice of opposition I guess. I actually liked Puck's origin. The Black Blade of Baghdad, Raazar, it's seemingly unstoppablity coupled with a creepy side effect to waste his victims away-- sounds pretty cool. I'll also admit I didn't know of the medical condition that Byrne was alluding to (and I must have missed its name, too-- didn't realize it was in a previous comic until someone posted it here.)

Let's be honest-- can it *really* be a revamp if there was no previous origin published? And if Puck was really "just" a man with dwarfism, how does that justify his inclusion into the Alpha/Beta Flight programs? Shouldn't there be some other "specialness" that would make him a member? Department H wasn't just letting any athletic person join. Wouldn't it be just as offensive to say that a man with dwarfism is akin to a mutant or strange outsider fit for a group outside mainstream society?

I hope I'm being clear enough. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, just offering up some other points of view. It's easier today to guess at writer's motives and opinions, both because of hindsight and also the availability of information on the internet. But I doubt Mantlo was simply ignoring or even downright dismissing Byrne's idea. He probably thought it sounded like a good opportunity for adventure and ran with it.

Much in the same way Byrne thought that having Tigra succumb to her feral side in West Coast Avengers would be a good story (even tho she had already come to terms with this during Englehart's run.)

You know Danny, this was a really good post, and does make a lot of sense. I know Byrne's plans may not have been for this origin, but otherwise...Puck really didn't make sense in the Flight programs.

[Babylon23]

And if Puck was really "just" a man with dwarfism, how does that justify his inclusion into the Alpha/Beta Flight programs? Shouldn't there be some other "specialness" that would make him a member? Department H wasn't just letting any athletic person join. Wouldn't it be just as offensive to say that a man with dwarfism is akin to a mutant or strange outsider fit for a group outside mainstream society?

It would only be offensive if it was stated that Puck's dwarfism was what makes him 'special'. At no point during Byrne's run was this even implied, let alone stated. Puck is on the team because of his courage, heroism and commitment to the ideals the team stands for. Clearly Department H and Mac specifically saw something extra in him beyond just his athletic abilitites. It could just as easily have been his extensive knowledge and experience as an adventurer and explorer. Puck is far from being just any athletic person.

Plenty of super teams have members who's only abilities are superior athletic skills. Alpha Flight was no different. For half of Byrne's run, they were led by a woman with no powers at all. But powers don't necessarily determine whether a character is best suited to be a team member.

I hope I'm being clear enough. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, just offering up some other points of view.

It's all good. Youre definitely stating your arguments clearing and offering up some interesting points.

But I doubt Mantlo was simply ignoring or even downright dismissing Byrne's idea. He probably thought it sounded like a good opportunity for adventure and ran with it.

Absolutely. From Byrne's quote, it's clear that Mantlo carefully studied Byrne's run in retail before he began writing. Byrne mentions him cutting and pasting issues together, whichc suggests some pretty detailed research. I don't think Mantlo was deliberately dismissing Byrne's work. I just don't like what he did with the book or the characters when he took over.

[Danny Wall]

It would only be offensive if it was stated that Puck's dwarfism was what makes him 'special'. At no point during Byrne's run was this even implied, let alone stated. Puck is on the team because of his courage, heroism and commitment to the ideals the team stands for. Clearly Department H and Mac specifically saw something extra in him beyond just his athletic abilitites. It could just as easily have been his extensive knowledge and experience as an adventurer and explorer. Puck is far from being just any athletic person.

Yes, clearly Dept. H would have seen something beyond athletic abilities, because that was the whole purpose of Dept. H in the first place-- taking in people with extraordinary abilities so that those powers could be used in service for the government. Take away everything from Mantlo would *also* mean taking away his "extensive knowledge and experience as an adventurer and explorer," or at the very least significantly diminish it. What's left? Not a whole heck of a super-lot. So the question remains... what is it about a Byrne-only Puck that made him a candidate for Dept. H? Clearly, there *is* something there, because he does seem "super-agile" and faster than normal, but with no clear origin, I think Mantlo is justified for trying to find an angle for a dramatic story.

Plenty of super teams have members who's only abilities are superior athletic skills. Alpha Flight was no different. For half of Byrne's run, they were led by a woman with no powers at all. But powers don't necessarily determine whether a character is best suited to be a team member.

Yes, but I'm not talking about Alpha Flight at the point of issue 33 or whatever. I'm talking about Puck's origin and his reason for being included in the Beta Flight program, and graduating into Alpha Flight, all of which was meant to be pretty significant, even tho it was all off panel before the series started.

Absolutely. From Byrne's quote, it's clear that Mantlo carefully studied Byrne's run in retail before he began writing. Byrne mentions him cutting and pasting issues together, whichc suggests some pretty detailed research. I don't think Mantlo was deliberately dismissing Byrne's work. I just don't like what he did with the book or the characters when he took over.

I have no doubt that Mantlo took great pains to be as close as possible to Byrne's Flight, including the detailed research. But, really, the research doesn't preclude Mantlo from coming up with his own ideas and new directions. If they wanted Byrne to keep telling his own stories, Marvel would have kept him as a writer, or at the least a co-plotter. Obviously, a new writer's new ideas will not always to everyone tastes, and that's what makes message boards a great place to visit, but again, I err on the side of creativity, which makes me guess that Mantlo had a creative idea that he thought would make for an interesting twist and exciting adventure. Why does this have to mean that he was antagonistic or dismissive of Byrne's ideas?

(But it's okay for you not to like it anyway. :) )

[Cub]

I also think Danny made some very good points (though I think the idea that all candidates for the dept h program need to have something "extra" would hold more water if heather hadn't led the team for a substantial amount of time before donning her vindicator gear). I think Puck proved he was more than the average human, with his speed, durability, and agility. And because he's not a mutant, an origin story kind of demanded to be told for him. I think what most people had a problem with is not that Mantlo went against what Byrne intended for Puck, but that his revised origin took away something from the character that made him unique and interesting- te fact that he was a dwarf living with a painful condition. I don't have any problem with subsequent writers wanting to follow their own ideas, rather than just go with the flow of what's gone on before. It's part and parcel of the medium. I do think, however, that Mantlo could have crafted an interesting, entertaining origin as to how Puck acquired his battle experience/extra agility, etc., and his subsequent inclusion into Alpha/Beta Flight without sacrificing this aspect of his character which, IMO, was kinda integral.

[Nevets F]

I also think Danny made some very good points (though I think the idea that all candidates for the dept h program need to have something "extra" would hold more water if heather hadn't led the team for a substantial amount of time before donning her vindicator gear).

One small thing...Alpha Flight was no longer part of Department H when Heather took over, and Alpha didn't rejoin Department H until way after she became Vindicator. :)

[Danny Wall]

Steven's got my back. That's the distinction I was trying to make.

And I totally get Cub's point. In fact, that's really where I would be at, personally. At the time, I thought Puck's origin was really cool (anything resembling Indiana Jones will get bonus points in my book) but looking back as an adult, I realize that it does rob Puck of something pretty germane to his uniqueness. (Look at how erudite I've become as an adult!)

[david r]

And if Puck was really "just" a man with dwarfism, how does that justify his inclusion into the Alpha/Beta Flight programs? Shouldn't there be some other "specialness" that would make him a member? Department H wasn't just letting any athletic person join. Wouldn't it be just as offensive to say that a man with dwarfism is akin to a mutant or strange outsider fit for a group outside mainstream society?

I've wondered that too. How could a dwarf, even an agile and strong one, be a member of super-powered group Alpha Flight? John Byrne never answered this. So Bill Mantlo did. Byrne did hint to Puck having magical knowledge, and Mantlo seems to pick up on it.

A lot of great comments by everyone. (I love lengthy discussions about these books.) :smile: But still feel that this "origin" lessens something special about Puck. Much like Cub. Learning he was six-feet + tall takes something away from Judd. I also very much liked Puck "living with pain". This angle of him brought a layer to Puck which few heroes have. Now, it seems like a cheat. I wait to see if this origin is elaborated more in future issues.

[limerick]

While I truly despise the Puck revelation, I think Mantlo's run starts turning a turn for the better right around the corner.
RE:Guardian power-suit being accquired by Heather Hudson.

Whatever about the story developments Heather looks hot!Is that the most skintight costume in Marvel history?Fotunately,she has the standard perfect Marvel body.

BTW David,Alpha Flight 33 & 34 has very important ramifications for Uncanny #205.Uncanny #205 is a classic but a little confusing if you haven't read AF #33 & 34.

Sorry,wrong quote there.

[Falconen]

I really liked Mantlo's writing on the Micronauts as well as Broderick's art. Unfortunately, I wasn't a real fan of his work here on Alpha Flight. He does carry over the fact that these people have horrible and unusal thing happen to them, but then he multiplies it by ten.
Come to think of it, over in Micronauts, Mantlo put all of those characters through hell also. I remember a friend telling me to not get so attached to characters, as they wouldn't survive under Mantlo's watch.

These coming up issues, were the last I had purchased of Alpha Flight, but I did keep track of what was going on.

[limerick]

Although I'm not a huge fan of Mantlos,one thing which benefits AF is that there is a genuine feeling that anything could happen.Unlike the X-men where there will always be a certain status quo and certain rules will be obeyed( e.g. Wolverine will never die) in Alpha nobody is safe.Any character could/does die at any time.Said character could then return under outrageous circumstances.Team lineups were likely to change overnight-not just one character but whole lineups.There really were no limits as to what could happen as there were no sacred cows.And as the readership dropped this became even more true.

[david r]

Limerick, I appreciate that heads-up on AF #33 & 34. I was unaware Alpha Flight and Uncanny X-Men were tied-in. I'll read accordingly, my friend. :smile:

Falconen, Seems our beloved comics characters go thru Hell. This is definitely true in X-Men. Of course, who wants to see them having a picnic by the river each issue? It's the fact they go through the tribulations of life and keep going, keep striving through hardships for a better way, that keeps us reading and becomes an inspiration. At least for me.

Although I'm not a huge fan of Mantlos,one thing which benefits AF is that there is a genuine feeling that anything could happen.Unlike the X-men where there will always be a certain status quo and certain rules will be obeyed( e.g. Wolverine will never die) in Alpha nobody is safe.Any character could/does die at any time.Said character could then return under outrageous circumstances.Team lineups were likely to change overnight-not just one character but whole lineups.There really were no limits as to what could happen as there were no sacred cows.And as the readership dropped this became even more true.

Oooooh yes. This quote piques my interest greatly. I love books where you NEVER know what's going to happen next. And there is suspense. I'm thinking Alpha Flight may keep that trend going (begun under Byrne.)

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.33.GIF

Alpha Flight #33

"A Friend in Need"

1st appearance: Lady Deathstrike

X-Men finally make their full appearance in Alpha Flight. It was bound to happen! But sadly, only the new Vindicator battles the mutant super-group! Bummer. Plus, Lady Deathstrike leaps into action for the FIRST TIME! Though her character originally appeared in Daredevil, this is the debut of her full "Lady Deathstrike" look. (A spectacular cover too, eh?)

Heather Hudson is flying across her homeland of Canada, upset with Puck. Heather wears a new Guardian power-suit, which gives her amped up powers. But it also killed off her husband. The rest of Alpha Flight are worried about Heather; and Puck in particular, feels guilty for her taking off. Judd wouldn't agree to train her. The reader learns that Puck secretly loves Heather. Puck suspects he knows where she's going, and leaves to find her. Heather herself has flown over the Atlantic Ocean, and we (finally) meet up again with Marrina!! Marrina!!! At last, Marrina returns. But the poor woman is confused, and being chased across the ocean waves by Attuma, Warlord of Atlantis. Attuma wishes to capture Marrina to trap her love, Namor the Sub-Mariner.

Anyway, Heather reaches her destination: Professor Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. She descends as the X-Men team are headed to the opera. Magneto spots her and, thinking this is an attack, disrupts her electromagnetic suit. Wolverine apparently recognizes Heather and lunges towards the Master of Magnetism. A fracas ensues, but Logan is able to stop his teammates from giving Heather any bodily harm. Storm says that Magneto should NOT have attacked. Though he is Headmaster over the New Mutants, she, and she alone, leads the X-Men! Heather Hudson has come to Weschester County, for she desires her old friend, Wolverine, to train her on her power-suit. Heather & Logan remember the day they first met, and as Mac & Heather enjoy their honeymoon up in some Canadian mountains, they were assaulted in the snows by a nearly naked Logan! Who lunged at them with fierocity. Mac and the wild beast tussle, and finally Heather shoots him, which stops the raging beast. Somehow, the attacker is alive, and they take him to their mountain cabin.

Mac leaves Heather at the cabin; taking off on skis to find help. Heather spends her honeymoon alone with a sleeping crazy man. Soon, Logan awakens, and he and Heather have words. Logan seems more calm, until his adamantium claws come out of his hands! Logan is shocked and acts like he's never seen his claws before! He falls out of his bed in disarray. After awhile, Heather approaches the man hiding on the floor, and feeling sorry for him, and hugs him. Back in the present time, Logan tells Heather she held him all night. When she should have been holding her new husband, Mac. He hasn't forgotten that. Logan admits he doesn't remember who gave him his adamantium claws. This memory is a blank to him. Logan admits he left Department H because he secretly longed for Heather's love. And Logan knew that Heather would never leave Mac Hudson. He agrees to train her. Suddenly, they are attacked by LADY DEATHSTRIKE! Who announces that Logan's powers were meant for her, and they were stolen!

My thoughts: This issue was very good, and informs far more on Wolverine's past than ever before. Logan reveals his memory is a blank when it comes to his enhanced adamantium claws. Also, the exact moment of his meeting with Mac and Heather Hudson is played out. I felt it was very well done. Logan is a complete animal and wildman, and it is Heather, more than James Hudson, who calms the savage beast. As for the battle with the X-Men, it was good but I wished more Alphans had participated. I liked how Storm put Magneto in his place. I was truly glad to see Marrina again and see a future story coming for her! And finally, I come to Lady Deathstrike, who appears at the issue's finale. She makes her entrance into comics with her full gear on! I hope she and Wolverine tear it up next issue!!

[Nevets F]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.33.GIF

Alpha Flight #33

"A Friend in Need"

1st appearance: Lady Deathstrike

X-Men finally make their full appearance in Alpha Flight. It was bound to happen! But sadly, only the new Vindicator battles the mutant super-group! Bummer. Plus, Lady Deathstrike leaps into action for the FIRST TIME! Though her character originally appeared in Daredevil, this is the debut of her full "Lady Deathstrike" look. (A spectacular cover too, eh?)

Heather Hudson is flying across her homeland of Canada, upset with Puck. Heather wears a new Guardian power-suit, which gives her amped up powers. But it also killed off her husband. The rest of Alpha Flight are worried about Heather; and Puck in particular, feels guilty for her taking off. Judd wouldn't agree to train her. The reader learns that Puck secretly loves Heather. Puck suspects he knows where she's going, and leaves to find her. Heather herself has flown over the Atlantic Ocean, and we (finally) meet up again with Marrina!! Marrina!!! At last, Marrina returns. But the poor woman is confused, and being chased across the ocean waves by Attuma, Warlord of Atlantis. Attuma wishes to capture Marrina to trap her love, Namor the Sub-Mariner.

Anyway, Heather reaches her destination: Professor Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters. She descends as the X-Men team are headed to the opera. Magneto spots her and, thinking this is an attack, disrupts her electromagnetic suit. Wolverine apparently recognizes Heather and lunges towards the Master of Magnetism. A fracas ensues, but Logan is able to stop his teammates from giving Heather any bodily harm. Storm says that Magneto should NOT have attacked. Though he is Headmaster over the New Mutants, she, and she alone, leads the X-Men! Heather Hudson has come to Weschester County, for she desires her old friend, Wolverine, to train her on her power-suit. Heather & Logan remember the day they first met, and as Mac & Heather enjoy their honeymoon up in some Canadian mountains, they were assaulted in the snows by a nearly naked Logan! Who lunged at them with fierocity. Mac and the wild beast tussle, and finally Heather shoots him, which stops the raging beast. Somehow, the attacker is alive, and they take him to their mountain cabin.

Mac leaves Heather at the cabin; taking off on skis to find help. Heather spends her honeymoon alone with a sleeping crazy man. Soon, Logan awakens, and he and Heather have words. Logan seems more calm, until his adamantium claws come out of his hands! Logan is shocked and acts like he's never seen his claws before! He falls out of his bed in disarray. After awhile, Heather approaches the man hiding on the floor, and feeling sorry for him, and hugs him. Back in the present time, Logan tells Heather she held him all night. When she should have been holding her new husband, Mac. He hasn't forgotten that. Logan admits he doesn't remember who gave him his adamantium claws. This memory is a blank to him. Logan admits he left Department H because he secretly longed for Heather's love. And Logan knew that Heather would never leave Mac Hudson. He agrees to train her. Suddenly, they are attacked by LADY DEATHSTRIKE! Who announces that Logan's powers were meant for her, and they were stolen!

My thoughts: This issue was very good, and informs far more on Wolverine's past than ever before. Logan reveals his memory is a blank when it comes to his enhanced adamantium claws. Also, the exact moment of his meeting with Mac and Heather Hudson is played out. I felt it was very well done. Logan is a complete animal and wildman, and it is Heather, more than James Hudson, who calms the savage beast. As for the battle with the X-Men, it was good but I wished more Alphans had participated. I liked how Storm put Magneto in his place. I was truly glad to see Marrina again and see a future story coming for her! And finally, I come to Lady Deathstrike, who appears at the issue's finale. She makes her entrance into comics with her full gear on! I hope she and Wolverine tear it up next issue!!

See, after just a couple issues it starts picking back up already. :)

I knew you would be happy to see Marinna return, a good story is coming up for her. Are you planning to pick up the Avengers issues that tie into the upcoming Marinna story?

[david r]

Steven, I was really glad to see Marrina again, and wasn't expecting it! :smile: Though it appears her life is still in shambles. :frown: Do those Avengers issues tie directly into the Alpha Flight story??

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.34.GIF

Alpha Flight #34

"Honor"

This issue begins with Eugene Judd (Puck) leaving Tamarind Island. His objective is Heather Hudson, leader of Alpha Flight. Immediately following, Snowbird and her human lover, Doug Thompson, arrive at the Mansion. Snowbird is deathly sick, and they seek Shaman's help to save her. But Box informs them Shaman is not here.

Meanwhile, the reader hooks up with Wolverine and Heather, on the verge of a battle with Lady Deathstrike and samurais. Deathstrike announces his adamantium is meant for her, and must be returned! Logan doesn't know Deathstrike, and requests knowledge on how she knows him. Deathstrike replies she knows him only by reputation. He was once part of the Canadian Secret Service, and now the X-Men.She also knows he's lover to Mariko Yashida, and the Yashida Clan are only second in power to the Emperor of Japan. Deathstrike knows Clan Yashida will seek her death, once she kills Wolverine. But honor demands she reclaim the adamantium, stolen from her father, Lord Darkwind . The adamantium are fruits of a scientific operation conducted by Deathstrike's father. It was stolen from him, and implanted into a human person against his will. Deathstrike has come to claim his adamantium and claws!

The reader now glimpses the past: Lord Darkwind wanted to raise Japan's greatness, by creating an army of warriors. But his dream was ended by the American superhero, Daredevil. Yuriko is Deathstrike's true name, and she hated her father. She fled once he died. Yuriko recounts her father had been a famous Japanese pilot during World War II. He had failed in a kamikaze attack, and become a prisoner-of-war. Once the war ended, Darkwind used scientific methods to bond adamantium to human bones, thus creating the ultimate, unstoppable warrior. But his plans were stolen, he knows not by whom, and he was never able to accomplish his amazing feat. Yuriko eventually wanted to avenge her father, by resurrecting his adamantium plans, and this search lead to Wolverine! Heather Hudson now reveals a secret of her own, remembering seeing a file on James Hudson's office desk once, which showed "A Report on the Process of bonding adamantium to the human skeletal structure." Could Heather & Mac's finding Logan in the Canadian wilderness have been more than mere chance?? Heather now wonders if Mac had planned it all along!!

Startling revelations aside, the chase is on! Wolverine and Heather Hudson split up, chased by Lady Deathstrike and the samurais. Heather has the power-suit now, which aids her in hand-to-hand fighting. During the heat of battle, Heather takes the name "Vindicator" for herself. Logan and Deathstrike fight alone against one another. Puck now arrives, and unknowingly crashes into poor Wolverine! Deathstrike has her chance, and grabs Logan to kill him!! But Heather arrives in the nick of time and Deathstrike's sword is useless against the power-suit, her sword thrust destroying the sword against the suit! Deathstrike is defeated! The issue ends illuminating the chase in our oceans with Marrina. She succumbs to exhaustion, and the Atlantean forces capture her. She is carted away, while Attuma, Warlord of Atlantis, watches.

My thoughts: These past 2 issues explore more of Wolverine's past than the last 11 years of Uncanny X-Men have. I wonder if this story came with Chris Claremont's blessing? Otherwise, I found it fascinating the mystery of the adamantium, and how Lady Deathstrike and her father are tied into it. Steven, you are right that these issues REALLY picked up, and I liked this one a lot. Puck was a canucklehead, hitting Logan in the heat of battle. I like Deathstrike and am curious to learn more of her. As for Heather Hudson's proclamation of being "Vindicator", I guess Marvel abandoned the "Guardian" name. I still wonder what Canada has to "vindicate" about?? Otherwise, a quality adventure.

[Nevets F]

Steven, I was really glad to see Marrina again, and wasn't expecting it! :smile: Though it appears her life is still in shambles. :frown: Do those Avengers issues tie directly into the Alpha Flight story??

Keep reading for her story. :)

Yes, those issues are direct tie-ins...each part of the story is continued into the other book and then back. The below issue is for sure part of the story...I don't recall off hand it the issue following this one is also part:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/05815547774.272.gif

[Nevets F]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.34.GIF

Alpha Flight #34

"Honor"

This issue begins with Eugene Judd (Puck) leaving Tamarind Island. His objective is Heather Hudson, leader of Alpha Flight. Immediately following, Snowbird and her human lover, Doug Thompson, arrive at the Mansion. Snowbird is deathly sick, and they seek Shaman's help to save her. But Box informs them Shaman is not here.

Meanwhile, the reader hooks up with Wolverine and Heather, on the verge of a battle with Lady Deathstrike and samurais. Deathstrike announces his adamantium is meant for her, and must be returned! Logan doesn't know Deathstrike, and requests knowledge on how she knows him. Deathstrike replies she knows him only by reputation. He was once part of the Canadian Secret Service, and now the X-Men.She also knows he's lover to Mariko Yashida, and the Yashida Clan are only second in power to the Emperor of Japan. Deathstrike knows Clan Yashida will seek her death, once she kills Wolverine. But honor demands she reclaim the adamantium, stolen from her father, Lord Darkwind . The adamantium are fruits of a scientific operation conducted by Deathstrike's father. It was stolen from him, and implanted into a human person against his will. Deathstrike has come to claim his adamantium and claws!

The reader now glimpses the past: Lord Darkwind wanted to raise Japan's greatness, by creating an army of warriors. But his dream was ended by the American superhero, Daredevil. Yuriko is Deathstrike's true name, and she hated her father. She fled once he died. Yuriko recounts her father had been a famous Japanese pilot during World War II. He had failed in a kamikaze attack, and become a prisoner-of-war. Once the war ended, Darkwind used scientific methods to bond adamantium to human bones, thus creating the ultimate, unstoppable warrior. But his plans were stolen, he knows not by whom, and he was never able to accomplish his amazing feat. Yuriko eventually wanted to avenge her father, by resurrecting his adamantium plans, and this search lead to Wolverine! Heather Hudson now reveals a secret of her own, remembering seeing a file on James Hudson's office desk once, which showed "A Report on the Process of bonding adamantium to the human skeletal structure." Could Heather & Mac's finding Logan in the Canadian wilderness have been more than mere chance?? Heather now wonders if Mac had planned it all along!!

Startling revelations aside, the chase is on! Wolverine and Heather Hudson split up, chased by Lady Deathstrike and the samurais. Heather has the power-suit now, which aids her in hand-to-hand fighting. During the heat of battle, Heather takes the name "Vindicator" for herself. Logan and Deathstrike fight alone against one another. Puck now arrives, and unknowingly crashes into poor Wolverine! Deathstrike has her chance, and grabs Logan to kill him!! But Heather arrives in the nick of time and Deathstrike's sword is useless against the power-suit, her sword thrust destroying the sword against the suit! Deathstrike is defeated! The issue ends illuminating the chase in our oceans with Marrina. She succumbs to exhaustion, and the Atlantean forces capture her. She is carted away, while Attuma, Warlord of Atlantis, watches.

My thoughts: These past 2 issues explore more of Wolverine's past than the last 11 years of Uncanny X-Men have. I wonder if this story came with Chris Claremont's blessing? Otherwise, I found it fascinating the mystery of the adamantium, and how Lady Deathstrike and her father are tied into it. Steven, you are right that these issues REALLY picked up, and I liked this one a lot. Puck was a canucklehead, hitting Logan in the heat of battle. I like Deathstrike and am curious to learn more of her. As for Heather Hudson's proclamation of being "Vindicator", I guess Marvel abandoned the "Guardian" name. I still wonder what Canada has to "vindicate" about?? Otherwise, a quality adventure.

I am glad you are liking these David...yay!

As for Vindicator...I agree Canada and Mac never had much to Vindicate, but I think it works better for Heather, since her husband was killed, etc. I think it fits her just fine.

[Valjean999]

Keep reading for her story. :)

Yes, those issues are direct tie-ins...each part of the story is continued into the other book and then back. The below issue is for sure part of the story...I don't recall off hand it the issue following this one is also part:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/05815547774.272.gif

Avengers #273 was the start of the Masters Of Evil storyline where they take over Avengers manision, so no, the story does not continue there

[Nevets F]

Avengers #273 was the start of the Masters Of Evil storyline where they take over Avengers manision, so no, the story does not continue there

Thanks, that is what I was thinking, but without looking I was afraid to say for sure.

[david r]

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/unsorted/images/afan.jpg

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/unsorted/images/afs.jpg

http://www.artofjohnbyrne.com/unsorted/images/afsp.jpg

[Nevets F]

I have those figures! I also have the Alpha busts by Bowen that have come out (Sasquatch, Guardian, Snowbird, Puck, and Shaman)...can't wait for the upcoming Northstar, Aurora and Marinna busts! They look great!

[limerick]

I have those figures! I also have the Alpha busts by Bowen that have come out (Sasquatch, Guardian, Snowbird, Puck, and Shaman)...can't wait for the upcoming Northstar, Aurora and Marinna busts! They look great!
Steven,That's what I call dedication!You're a true fan.

I'm surprised they're doing one of Marinna--I didn't think there would be enough interest in her character.

[Nevets F]

I am indeed a fan. :) I have said this is my favorite series ever, and I meant it! lol

David, I hope it is ok for me to post these.

I present...Marinna!
http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Marrina%20bust1.JPG

[Nevets F]

Northstar and Aurora!

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Aurora%20and%20Northstar%20mini-busts.jpg

[Nevets F]

Sasquatch!

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Sas%20side%20by%20side%20busts.jpg

[Nevets F]

Shaman!

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Shaman%20bust.jpg

[Nevets F]

Snowbird...times two:

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/SnowBird%20bust.jpg

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Snowbird%20Sasquatch.jpg

[Nevets F]

Guardian/Vindicator (Mac)

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Vindicator.jpg

[Nevets F]

Puck!

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Puck%20bust%201ws.JPG

[Nevets F]

A sign of the pretty far future:

Beta Ray Bill:

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/Beta%20Ray%20Bill_m.jpg

Arachne/Spider-Woman (one of my fav characters ever joining my favorite team)

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/SpiderWoman%201.JPG

U.S. Agent:

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/US%20AGENT%20BUST.jpg

[david r]

Steven, those are gorgeous. Those busts always make me drool. You own all those? I wish I could buy them, and so many other busts! But they cost just too much $$$$.

[Nevets F]

Steven, those are gorgeous. Those busts always make me drool. You own all those? I wish I could buy them, and so many other busts! But they cost just too much $$$$.

I pulled those images from the Bowen site, but I do own all of them except the twins and Marinna, cause they are not out yet. You better believe I will have them as soon as they come out! I own about 60 busts in total. I think Bowen busts are beautiful.

[Cub]

Damn, that guy is incredibly talented. He perfectly captured each and every character. My favorites are Northstar and Puck. Puck's face is just incredible. And Mac's bust is really impressive as well. Shiny!

[limerick]

I pulled those images from the Bowen site, but I do own all of them except the twins and Marinna, cause they are not out yet. You better believe I will have them as soon as they come out! I own about 60 busts in total. I think Bowen busts are beautiful.
Wow!!Cool.Where do you find space for them all?
Love the Marinna one--she looks better than in the comics.Sasquatch is brilliant too (but he could do with arms).Aurora's face is a bit harsh-Ialways imagined her with softer featuresbut Northstar looks great.Snowbird's probably the only disappointing one--I just don't think it looks great.

[Nevets F]

Wow!!Cool.Where do you find space for them all?
Love the Marinna one--she looks better than in the comics.Sasquatch is brilliant too (but he could do with arms).Aurora's face is a bit harsh-Ialways imagined her with softer featuresbut Northstar looks great.Snowbird's probably the only disappointing one--I just don't think it looks great.

Wow, Snowbird, in person at least, is one of my favorite busts I own, not just out of the Alpha, but all! lol. To each their own I guess! :D (I do think Arachne, Scarlet Spider, and Nova are my top fav busts though).

I have most of them on a mantle currently. NO ROOM left, lol. Several are still boxed up from when I moved a year ago. :(

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.35.GIF

Alpha Flight #35

"The Child is Father to the Man"

1st appearance: Eaglet

Another long title! Marrina has been captured by Attuma, and his Atleantean warriors. She is wracked with pain & agony. Attuma wants her to talk, and mocks has as "Queen Creature the First". (Supposed queen of Atlantis.) Meanwhile, following the great last two issues, Puck and Vindicator return to Alpha Flight homebase at their Mansion on Tamarind Island. They arrive and greet Snowbird. But Narya is deathly ill. Narya cannot control her shapeshifting abilities. The heroes learn that Snowbird and her human lover, Doug Thompson, have been wed. Alpha Flight are surprised by the news. As for her agony, they realize only Shaman can help her, but he is away.

In the Canadian Barrens, we find Shaman--Michael Twoyoungmen. Shaman confronts several challenges in this place, to prove himself worthy. He battles mosquitos, fish and wolves in the wilderness. At the end of it, Michael is shocked to be reunited with his daughter-- Talisman! They have bitter words, and Elizabeth is still angry with him. She replies he passed the Spirit Tests, so he must be worthy. Soon, the spirit of Shaman's grandfather materializes before him. He is proud of Michael. Shaman acquires an eagle crest, and puts on the ceremonial clothing. More power is Shaman's for the asking, if he passes one more test. Dead viking bodies rise from the ground!! Shaman grabs for his medicine pouch, but it is gone! He says that is the "old magic" and not from within himself. The eagle speaks and calls itself "Eaglet". It is Shaman's "familiar" and his companion between the human realm and what is beyond. Shaman brings some stone men to life, and they destroy the zombie Vikings. Shaman knows he has passed his final test.

The issue ends with Snowbird still in terrible agony. Shaman suddenly magically teleports into the room and prepares to aid his stricken friend.

My thoughts: Another great issue, as the series is on an upswing again. #35 focused mainly on Shaman and I liked his thrilling trial by fire against forces of the forest. But the most stinging duel was with his daughter, Talisman. It seems bad blood still exists between them. This Eaglet was intriguing, and overall, I'm glad I continued past John Byrne's run. This isn't as good, but has improved over #29-31, and I think Bill Mantlo is getting a handle on these colorful characters.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Sadly, this is when my interest in AF seriously begins to wane...I remember reading this issue (and those to come) just once, then bagging it and putting it away...me, the guy who loves to read his comics over n' over till they are dog-eared, tattered, battered and hanging by a single staple...:-((

[Nevets F]

I think this was a great issue, the second in a pretty long line of good-to-great issues.

I love Shaman's new look! Sometimes redesigns don't appeal to me, but Shaman's was an improvement.

Talisman has anger issues.

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.36.GIF

Alpha Flight #36

"Labor Pains"

At Alpha Flight's new homebase, Shaman has returned to the team. Just in time to aid Snowbird, who is deathly sick. After attacking and biting a rabbit (in her owl guise), Narya bowls over in agony. Narya's new husband, Doug Thompson, is worried sick over her whereabouts,and demands answers from Dr. Michael Twoyoungmen. Shaman let her feed. To everyone's surprise, Shaman announces that Snowbird is PREGNANT!! :eek: At that crucial split second, Snowbird enters the room, and cries for her mother Nelvanna to help her! Doug says they've been married a mere 2 week, so how can she be pregnant? Meanwhile, an Atlantean named Byrrah, breaks into Avengers Mansion to confront his Emperor, Namor the Sub-Mariner. Namor is currently a member of Earth's Mightiest Heroes. Byrrah informs his King that Attuma has taken control of Atlantis, and holds his beloved, Marrina, hostage. Namor is understandably suspicious, but departs to wrestle control back from Attuma.
In so doing, Namor seems to end his membership with the Avengers!!

Back on Tamarind Island, Puck sits with Doug and reveals Snowbird's Godlike origins. And how Michael Twoyoungmen raised her. Doug doesn't like Alpha Flight, and wants to take Narya away from them. But this pregnancy has changed everything. Roger Bochs and Madison Jeffries team-up to create a sonogram, surprising the rest of Alpha Flight. But the child is unformed, and Shaman says the unborn baby must be bound to humanity, just like Snowbird had to be. He also realizes that the baby must be born in a "place of power". Shaman summons the spirit form Eaglet to ask him if Mansion Alpha (their mansion & base) is a place of power. A spirit tells the heroes there is death in this mansion! Heather is stunned. However, a spirit grins and hints they may not be telling the truth. (So what use ARE these spirits?) Likewise, Snowbird's Arctic Gods will not help, cutting their ties when she bedded with a human being.

Doctor Strange now enters the mix, and he and Shaman discover a place of power where Snowbird's baby may be born.From a circle of rocks and stones, on an island. However, Doug Thompson causes much hoo-haw, wanting his beloved Narya to be born in a regular hospital. And he's distrustful of all these superhero types. But luckily, AF talk to him and calm him down. The issue ends with another view of the "place of power"--the stone circle. The reader realizes this is NOT a place of "good" power, but "evil" power. Alpha Flight are about to birth Snowbird's baby.....where Pestilence lives!!!

My thoughts: I liked the cliffhanger ending! Is Snowbird's baby about to be possessed? Poor Doug Thompson; most new husbands don't have such troubles. This is even worse than a mother-in-law! The entire pregnancy thing is intriguing, as how can Narya be with child? And I was glad to see Shaman back to his responsible, capable self. Also Marrina and the Sub-Mariner subplot is coming to a head. Coolness.

[Nevets F]

It really is getting better to me with each passing issue, after the freefall it took for a few issues after Byrne left.

I love the story with Snowbird, and am very intrigued by the developing Marinna plot!

[Danny Wall]

One thing about early AF-- there often was some great cliffhangers! I think that helped create the feeling of momentum for the series. This was a series were Things Happened. If you missed an issue, a character may have been significantly changed. No one was there to simply fill the panel-- they all had some bubbling subplot or another. (Well, maybe not Northstar. He always seemed there to just react to others. At least for the next few issues.)

[david r]

Steven, I agree it has gotten better. When should Avengers #272 fit in, do you know?

Danny Wall, Everything you say sounds promising. I LOVE books where you must get every issue, otherwise you miss something. It creates a level of suspense.

[Nevets F]

Steven, I agree it has gotten better. When should Avengers #272 fit in, do you know?

Danny Wall, Everything you say sounds promising. I LOVE books where you must get every issue, otherwise you miss something. It creates a level of suspense.

David, Avengers 272 is a direct continuation from Alpha 39. :D

[limerick]

Enjoyed the Marinna Avengers story.I was surprised how this story pans out for her----I thought her days were numbered.(spoilers?)

[david r]

Steven, I appreciate the help with the Avengers. So I still have a ways to go.

Limerick, No spoileys!! :biggrin:

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.37.GIF

Alpha Flight #37

"Death Birth"

1st appearance: Pestilence

The issue begins with a history lesson. April 1848. Two sea vessels attempt the rigid snows to find a Northwest Passage, with famed explorer John Franklin. They become trapped in the snows of the Arctic, and starvation sets in. Men become exhausted skeletons, waiting for a Spring that cannot come fast enough. The science officer of the vessel creates a potion to give him suspended animation, thus, he would survive for the warmer weather of spring. Crozier collapses, and the crew come running. He appears dead, but is in fact alive, alert but in suspended animation. Crozier hopes they leave his "dead" body, but instead, they bury him in the snows. So deep, the warm Spring air never touch him. And there Crozier stays, alive and conscious, but forever trapped in suspended animation, below the turgid frozen ice of the Arctic!

Cut to the present (as in 1986), and Alpha Flight are on their way to the Arctic. Snowbird is pregnant, and they are taking her to the "place of power"--a Circle of Stones. Once arriving, they meet up with Elizabeth Twoyoungmen, Talisman, who seems near crazy with anger at her father, Shaman. They approach the Circle of Stones, but Talisman says she is stopping the spirits in helping her father. Snowbird's Arctic Gods appear, and offer her one last chance to leave behind her human life. But Narya replies in the negative; she has no wish to leave behind her child or new husband, Doug Thompson. Thompson himself is acting obnoxious, and continually questions Shaman. And now begins, birthing Snowbird's child. Narya enters the Circle of Stones, while underneath, the long-dormant Crozier is alive. He senses people on the ice above him, and waits! It is at this juncture, that Talisman reveals her wicked scheme. She manipulated the spirits to bring Alpha to this spot, knowing it was a place of power. But also a place of death. Suddenly, black creatures rise from the ice and feed on the unborn baby! Creatures of death rise and attack Alpha Flight!

At this point, Pestilence makes his move! As Narya's baby is formed, it is replaced by the rejuvenated body of Crozier. But he stands and says "I LIVE! And upon the living, I shall bring plague and pestilence!" Pestilence says Narya's baby resides within him. Pestilence's creatures of decay are defeating Alpha Flight, and he now withers poor Shaman into weak and old. Talisman now steps up and says she has seen her father humbled, and will now SAVE Alpha Flight. But Pestilence merely laughs, and rips Talisman's power-band from her forehead!! Something they thought was impossible. The power-band lands near Shaman, who sees his daughter being strangled by Pestilence. What can he do to save her??

My thoughts: Talisman is acting pretty ridiculous here; I know she holds a vendetta against her father, but this affair is taking things too far. I assume Elizabeth is the hero we're losing. Pestilence was a gross villain, and I rather liked the backstory with the Arctic expedition, and Dr. Crozier. It seems trapped under ice for a century has driven him nuts. It also seems obvious that new writer Bill Mantlo has abandoned the concept of having only a select few Alphans on each adventure. The whole team are a permanent unit, and I'm not sure what I think of that. I liked it the way it was, made this book unique.

[Imraith Nimphais]

"Talisman is acting pretty ridiculous here"
You hit the nail on the head, David, as far as my feelings for the current character developement goes...I've loved Elizabeth from the very first issue she appeared...I even understood her "parent" issues as presented by Byrne...but this?...no. no. no....I hated how BM was writing her...sure she has had issues with her father in the past with the whole "pouch" episode etc...but really now...to put Narya's baby's life at risk just to see Shaman humbled?...as the young-uns say, "Puh-leeeze!"...and yes, Pestilence was a gross villain...conceptually...and I did not at all approve of the way he was writing Snowbird either...at this point it seemed to me, he was just putting everyone through the combine harvester...twice!...without any sort of character developement as the result...it's all misery for misery (and plot interest?)'s sake...and, imho...he only gets worse.
I did not enjoy these issues...not one bit...and I did promise myself that I would not inject my gall into this otherwise wonderful thread...but that Talisman bit just ticked me right off...I honestly think I started to detest Mantlo from this issue onwards.

[david r]

Imraith Nimphais, I get where you're coming from. Talisman is angry with her dad, but the Pestilence story is way off on her characterization. I do not believe for a moment that Elizabeth Twoyoungmen would put Snowbird & her baby at risk, just to prove a point with Shaman. I wondered while reading #37 if new writer Bill Mantlo had actually read all of John Byrne's run. Because you cannot tell by some of the things he's done. However, some stuff I've liked (like the Lady Deathstrike tale), so it's been a mixed bag. I can fully understand why you don't like it. (Who doesn't like Pestilence's little bow tie, though!?)

http://comicartfans.com/Images/Category_15157/subcat_34424/Talisman189.jpg

Lady Deathstrike debuts in ALPHA FLIGHT!

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/thumb/7/7e/Deathstrike_yuriko.jpg/180px-Deathstrike_yuriko.jpg

[david r]

Snowbird...times two:

http://www.bowendesigns.com/images/sculptures/legacy/SnowBird%20bust.jpg


That is a sweet one. They do such fine work. I bring Narya up, because shouldn't she DIE if she leaves Canada? So how can Alpha Flight take her to the Arctic in #37? Shouldn't she die once she leaves Canada?

[Cub]

Can anyone scan some pics of the interior art? I've heard a lot of feedback on Mantlo, but not that much about the new artist. As far as the covers go, I think he kinda kicks ass.

[david r]

Here's some pics of Pestilence:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3664/369016-108781-pestilence_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3664/369017-125205-pestilence_super.jpg

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.38.GIF

Alpha Flight #38

"Pestilence"

Vindicator proves her mettle, by freeing herself from the flies Pestilence has thrown at her. Heather needs to rescue Talisman, before it's too late! However, Vindicator seems useless against Pestilence, until Puck finally grabs the villain and pulls him down into the icy waters. The same icy waters Pestilence was trapped in for 100 years. Alpha Flight are freed from his evil grasp! :smile: Elizabeth Twoyoungmen goes to adorn her head appendage (thus regain her super-powers.) But her father, Shaman takes it from her. Shaman says the tiara robbed her from her goodness, her humanity. But Talisman does not agree.

Snowbird's baby now becomes the focal point, as the threat of Pestilence is not finished. Snowbird turns into her "Sasquatch" form, which Pestilence possesses. Pestilence also summons the Great Beasts, who are under his control. Alpha Flight now step into high gear, and battle the Great Beasts. (This is the cool battle I'd been wanting!) Shaman succumbs to his temptation, and adorns his daughter's "Talisman". Using the power, he sends the Great Beasts away. And orders Snowbird (still in her Sasquatch form) to attack their villain, Pestilence! Narya indeed attacks Pestilence, but he now transforms into her unborn child, which stops Narya in her tracks! Pestilence then sinks many feet deep into the snows, and is lost. The baby's human father, Doug Thompson, is outraged and says he must save his baby!

As Alpha Flight return to Mansion Alpha, the Atlantean Byrrah arrives. Namor needs their help! The Sub-Mariner cannot stop Attuma's forces on his own, and requests the aid of Alpha flight. Namor only wishes to save his beloved Marrina, and no longer cares for Atlantis. If they will not stop Attuma, then they should be left on their own.

My thoughts: I enjoyed the battle with the Great Beasts. And the continuing difficulties between Shaman and Talisman. So Talisman was being corrupted by her magical tiara?? And that is the cause of her bizarre behavior last issue? Pestilence is one hard villain to stop, especially after possessing a baby. It's pretty obvious we'll be seeing more of him. And I'm greatly looking forward to seeing Namor and Alpha Flight invade Atlantis to save Marrina.

[Nevets F]

I'm back! After more than a week away. Yes, Talisman was def acting pretty ridicules by the point of the previous issue...at least it is explained as her being influenced...becoming less human I guess.

Really looking forward to the Avengers/Alpha crossover!

[david r]

Welcome back, Steven! :smile:

[david r]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.39.GIF

Alpha Flight #39

"The Invasion of Atlantis"

The Canadian team of super-heroes, Alpha Flight, have returned to their island base, Mansion Alpha. They are met by the Atlantean, Byrrah, who informs them of the troubles brewing in Atlantis. Alpha debate whether to aid Namor the Sub-Mariner, because of the international complications which may arise. But the heroes decide saving their forsaken member, Marrina, should take precedence! Snowbird makes the choice to help AF, even though her child is captured by the villain Pestilence. The human father, Douglas Thompson, is outraged and storms off in rage. (Doug certainly is more emotional in Bill Mantlo's era.)

The reader now gets a spell check, as we learn the Canadian government has been spying on Alpha Flight. Surveillance equipment decked out around the Tamarind Island Victorian mansion has been keeping a watchful eye on the Canadian super-group. Gary Cody, the group's liaison, appears and tells them to NOT go to Atlantis. Heather Hudson, aka Vindicator is so pissed she destroys the equipment and ignores his order. Alpha Flight take off to save the day, flying over the ocean on their way to Atlantis. However, Atlantis security forces intercept their jet, and shoot it out of the sky!! A spirited fight breaks out between the factions, and soon the Canadians are head above water in the drink! Snowbird, still shaken up over losing her child and lover, turns into a whale to help the team. Narya secretly wouldn't mind losing her life in this fight, so she could return to the Gods. And being outside Canada (thus making her vulnerable) may accomplish this.

Most of Alpha that cannot swim, have deep-water pressure outfits so they can endure the undersea. The designer, Madison Jeffries, returns to the surface, for he cannot swim adequately. The heroes are soon joined by Namor, the Sub-Mariner, and Earth's Mightiest Heroes, The Avengers!! Their combined might battle Atlantis' armies, lead by the treacherous Attuma!! While the glorious fighting commences, Northstar locates Marrina and frees her. The 2 teams intermingle, but both Avengers & Alpha Flight alike our soon surrounded by Atlantis forces! Which close in for the kill!!!

My thoughts: This issue was pretty awesome! I liked seeing Alpha Flight involved in an Atlantis adventure, and the undersea battle was well-depicted. Plus, I LOVE THAT COVER!! It greatly shows the 2 hero-teams united! Would make a great poster. I was also surprised by Gary Cody's appearance, and the twist that Canada has been spying on their heroes. I guess they are not as clean-cut as we Americans have been lead to believe. All in all, another improved issue. I am looking forward to the Avengers part. I hope Marrina sticks around.

[Nevets F]

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/03018831342.39.GIF

Alpha Flight #39

"The Invasion of Atlantis"

The Canadian team of super-heroes, Alpha Flight, have returned to their island base, Mansion Alpha. They are met by the Atlantean, Byrrah, who informs them of the troubles brewing in Atlantis. Alpha debate whether to aid Namor the Sub-Mariner, because of the international complications which may arise. But the heroes decide saving their forsaken member, Marrina, should take precedence! Snowbird makes the choice to help AF, even though her child is captured by the villain Pestilence. The human father, Douglas Thompson, is outraged and storms off in rage. (Doug certainly is more emotional in Bill Mantlo's era.)

The reader now gets a spell check, as we learn the Canadian government has been spying on Alpha Flight. Surveillance equipment decked out around the Tamarind Island Victorian mansion has been keeping a watchful eye on the Canadian super-group. Gary Cody, the group's liaison, appears and tells them to NOT go to Atlantis. Heather Hudson, aka Vindicator is so pissed she destroys the equipment and ignores his order. Alpha Flight take off to save the day, flying over the ocean on their way to Atlantis. However, Atlantis security forces intercept their jet, and shoot it out of the sky!! A spirited fight breaks out between the factions, and soon the Canadians are head above water in the drink! Snowbird, still shaken up over losing her child and lover, turns into a whale to help the team. Narya secretly wouldn't mind losing her life in this fight, so she could return to the Gods. And being outside Canada (thus making her vulnerable) may accomplish this.

Most of Alpha that cannot swim, have deep-water pressure outfits so they can endure the undersea. The designer, Madison Jeffries, returns to the surface, for he cannot swim adequately. The heroes are soon joined by Namor, the Sub-Mariner, and Earth's Mightiest Heroes, The Avengers!! Their combined might battle Atlantis' armies, lead by the treacherous Attuma!! While the glorious fighting commences, Northstar locates Marrina and frees her. The 2 teams intermingle, but both Avengers & Alpha Flight alike our soon surrounded by Atlantis forces! Which close in for the kill!!!

My thoughts: This issue was pretty awesome! I liked seeing Alpha Flight involved in an Atlantis adventure, and the undersea battle was well-depicted. Plus, I LOVE THAT COVER!! It greatly shows the 2 hero-teams united! Would make a great poster. I was also surprised by Gary Cody's appearance, and the twist that Canada has been spying on their heroes. I guess they are not as clean-cut as we Americans have been lead to believe. All in all, another improved issue. I am looking forward to the Avengers part. I hope Marrina sticks around.

This really is a great issue, and storyline all together!

I wonder where the government spying story is going?

I really can not stand Doug.

Snowbird story is so sad...she is almost suicidal!

Madison Jeffries shows just how cool he and his powers are in this issue. Such a great addition to the team.

[limerick]

Back online -at last .Broadband sorted-cheers for that, Santa.C'mon everyone read Alpha Appreciation thread---It's good for you!Steven,David--hello.

[Nevets F]

Back online -at last .Broadband sorted-cheers for that, Santa.C'mon everyone read Alpha Appreciation thread---It's good for you!Steven,David--hello.

Welcome back! And Hi back at ya!