View Full Version : S.H.I.E.L.D. Security
Pugfugly
05-22-2008, 08:31 AM
Is it just me, or has S.H.I.E.L.D. majorly slipped up under the control of Maria Hill and Tony Stark?
I've noticed in at least 6 recent issues that a hellicarrier has been broken into and/or infiltrated by numerous characters. Here's the break-down:
New Avengers: The Hood breaks in to free his crew.
Fallen Son - Wolverine: Dr. Strange sneaks Wolverine in to check Cap's body.
X-Force: Matthew Risman steals an artifact with his planted agents.
Hulk: The red Hulk somehow breaks in...or does he?
Marvel Comics Presents: Taskmaster breaks in to test security for Hill.
Mighty Avengers: Nick Fury gets into Hill's quarters to steal files and warn her.
Not only that, but in recent memory at least 3 hellicarrier's (including Iron Man's fancy new one) have come crashing to the Earth in a fiery blaze. Don't get me wrong accidents, especially in the Marvel U, happen. But shouldn't the organization charged with global protection be a little more on the ball with these kind of things?
Either that or Marvel needs more involved editors to say "Uh, hey, we just had someone do that last week."
Thoughts? Additions to the list?
matthewaos
05-22-2008, 08:44 AM
When Iron Man's hellicarrier appeared, other than the one appearence in MA?
It's not only this, if anyone remembers, Iron Man caught in an explosion in MA and in Director of SHILED, and both were published maybe the same month, I don't remember. And Bendis already did the "Is Iron Man dead" thing in the first MA story.
wooten16
05-22-2008, 08:51 AM
Yeah SHIELD seems to be falling apart recently. It wouldn't surprise me if Marvel is doing this so maybe Nick Fury can come back and take it over it again. That would be cool.
Pugfugly
05-22-2008, 09:04 AM
When Iron Man's hellicarrier appeared, other than the one appearence in MA?
*SPOILER*
It met it's fiery end at the hands of the red Hulk in Hulk #2. Oh the humanity.
Monty_Cristo
05-22-2008, 09:24 AM
you're all being dishonest. the Helicarrier has been broken into before; during Fury's command. Jessica Drew has slipped into his office before without alerting anyone. many of the people working directly under Fury have outright replaced by sophisticated robots. the big Hydra attack led by Elektra and Wolverine happened during Fury's "term." you're being ridiculous if you think that security has slipped. i won't even mention internal corruption. wait, yes i will. did anyone here read that story arc in SHIELD where Jack Truman was sent after Cable? that one ended with a hearing that made Clay Quartermain and a few other guys out to be Hydra-level corrupt.
Expletive Deleted
05-22-2008, 09:27 AM
you're all being dishonest. the Helicarrier has been broken into before; during Fury's command. Jessica Drew has slipped into his office before without alerting anyone. many of the people working directly under Fury have outright replaced by sophisticated robots. the big Hydra attack led by Elektra and Wolverine happened during Fury's "term." you're being ridiculous if you think that security has slipped.What he said.
SHIELD has always made great cannon fodder.
Pugfugly
05-22-2008, 09:48 AM
you're all being dishonest. the Helicarrier has been broken into before; during Fury's command. Jessica Drew has slipped into his office before without alerting anyone. many of the people working directly under Fury have outright replaced by sophisticated robots. the big Hydra attack led by Elektra and Wolverine happened during Fury's "term." you're being ridiculous if you think that security has slipped. i won't even mention internal corruption. wait, yes i will. did anyone here read that story arc in SHIELD where Jack Truman was sent after Cable? that one ended with a hearing that made Clay Quartermain and a few other guys out to be Hydra-level corrupt.
Well then, I didn't aim to sound dishonest or ridiculous. Merely making an observation of just how frequently such occurrences have taken place in the past six months or so. I mainly read X-Titles, so my history of S.H.I.E.L.D. snafus is a bit sparse. And yes, I know snafu is an acronym as well.
matthewaos
05-22-2008, 09:57 AM
*SPOILER*
It met it's fiery end at the hands of the red Hulk in Hulk #2. Oh the humanity.
Oh ok, cause I remember seeing it and and then nothing. Not interesting in a red and gold carrier though.
I think the falling Hellicarrier thing is becoming a running joke.
There's been at least 3 instances off the top of my head (and there may be more) where not just A Hellicarrier but rather ALL the hellicarriers were grounded. Cho, Ultron, and the Skrulls. It's practically raining hellicarriers.
I think more helicarriers have dropped from the sky in Starks short span as head of SHIELD than in SHIELDS decades long history.
Buried Alien
05-22-2008, 10:22 AM
How many times has the Red Ronin robot been stolen? Ten? Twenty?
You'd think that S.H.I.E.L.D./Stark Enterprises would really beef up their security on a giant robot capable of fighting Godzilla to a draw.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
matthewaos
05-22-2008, 10:32 AM
I think the best of all the later was Millar's.
Teh m0nk3y
05-22-2008, 10:47 AM
I remember this one time during Fury's tenure, X-Force broke into a hellicarrier to extract a captured Cyclops. G.W. Bridge was there with his men, but of course Cable and company made it out of there. Making this another example of how often SHIELD have failed in the past.
Catlin
05-22-2008, 11:09 AM
I remember this one time during Fury's tenure, X-Force broke into a hellicarrier to extract a captured Cyclops. G.W. Bridge was there with his men, but of course Cable and company made it out of there. Making this another example of how often SHIELD have failed in the past.
No, Fury was considered dead at that time that happened. It was either Val or Dum-Dum in charge.
Pugfugly
05-22-2008, 11:15 AM
No, Fury was considered dead at that time that happened. It was either Val or Dum-Dum in charge.
That could be the key right there. Seems like the acting director is assumed to be dead just about every other day. Remember when the Black Widow was in charge? I do.
Teh m0nk3y
05-22-2008, 11:15 AM
No, Fury was considered dead at that time that happened. It was either Val or Dum-Dum in charge.
K, my fault. Though it still shows SHIELD failing before Stark ever was considered for Director.
Catlin
05-22-2008, 11:21 AM
K, my fault. Though it still shows SHIELD failing before Stark ever was considered for Director.
*g* I have the whole X-Force 1st series memorized, because I'm that geeky.
Heck, SHIELD has had problems from day one. Even Baron Strucker managed to infiltrate SHIELD at one point, back during the Strange Tales stories. And at the first meeting, when Fury was being offered the SHIELD director position, a bomb was on the Hellicarrier, which Nick managed to get out a window just in time.
Weapon Ick
05-22-2008, 11:42 AM
S.H.I.E.L.D. has been infiltrated by Skrulls. Dr. Faustus has also been on the payroll for months brainwashing numerous agents to serve the Red Skull's agenda. I think in X-Force they said that there are Purifiers employed at S.H.I.E.L.D. as well. All this has happened pretty much simultaneously.
It makes me wonder if there are any agents of SHIELD who are, y'know, actually agents of SHIELD,
S.H.I.E.L.D. has been infiltrated by Skrulls. Dr. Faustus has also been on the payroll for months brainwashing numerous agents to serve the Red Skull's agenda. I think in X-Force they said that there are Purifiers employed at S.H.I.E.L.D. as well. All this has happened pretty much simultaneously.
It makes me wonder if there are any agents of SHIELD who are, y'know, actually agents of SHIELD,
I think it was Madame Hydra in NA that said that Fury kept SHIELD from being corrupt by sheer will alone.
Without Fury there, SHIELD seems to be open game. That's not to say that SHIELD hasn't had it's share if problems with corruption and infiltration in the past. But I definately think things on a lot of fronts seems a lot worse.
ThisMortalSoil
05-22-2008, 12:13 PM
X-Force: Matthew Risman steals an artifact with his planted agents.
That was on a helicarrier?
I'll look back to #1, I thought it was on the ground :confused:
*EDIT* hehe, I meant in a bunker someplace
That was on a helicarrier?
I'll look back to #1, I thought it was on the ground :confused:
At least if it's on the ground, they don't have to worry about it crashing.
Tobias Drake
05-22-2008, 12:25 PM
At least if it's on the ground, they don't have to worry about it crashing.
Well, a helicarrier could still fall on it. :tongue:
StoneGold
05-22-2008, 12:42 PM
No, Fury was considered dead at that time that happened. It was either Val or Dum-Dum in charge.
There's a good chance it was Sharon Carter. She was ED for a bit in the late 90s.
Monty_Cristo
05-22-2008, 02:27 PM
S.H.I.E.L.D. has been infiltrated by Skrulls. Dr. Faustus has also been on the payroll for months brainwashing numerous agents to serve the Red Skull's agenda. I think in X-Force they said that there are Purifiers employed at S.H.I.E.L.D. as well. All this has happened pretty much simultaneously.
It makes me wonder if there are any agents of SHIELD who are, y'know, actually agents of SHIELD,
only those on monitor duty and they are just waiting to steal an Ant-Man suit/kick Dum Dum Dugan in the nuts.
Monty_Cristo
05-22-2008, 02:30 PM
the real question should be, "should SHIELD be portrayed as more competent?" i think they should be a little better than overpaid mall security.
the real question should be, "should SHIELD be portrayed as more competent?" i think they should be a little better than overpaid mall security.
Unless they get their own title (and I'm not sure Iron Man counts), I don't really think you can potray SHIELD as effective or competent.
If they were actually capable of doing their jobs, the world wouldn't need heroes. And the fact that they're now being used to chase after heroes in addition to chasing after villains just means there's one new front they can fail at.
Pugfugly
05-22-2008, 03:18 PM
Unless they get their own title (and I'm not sure Iron Man counts), I don't really think you can potray SHIELD as effective or competent.
If they were actually capable of doing their jobs, the world wouldn't need heroes. And the fact that they're now being used to chase after heroes in addition to chasing after villains just means there's one new front they can fail at.
That reminds me, does Captain America escaping from the Hellicarrier count too?
Thankfully Agent Brand treats all of her S.W.O.R.D. operatives like they're idiots anyways. Doing our job for us.
Tobias Drake
05-22-2008, 03:18 PM
Unless they get their own title (and I'm not sure Iron Man counts), I don't really think you can potray SHIELD as effective or competent.
If they were actually capable of doing their jobs, the world wouldn't need heroes. And the fact that they're now being used to chase after heroes in addition to chasing after villains just means there's one new front they can fail at.
They do have their own title. It's called Iron Man. But because so many writers are fond of playing Kick the Shellhead, that, if anything, is detrimental to their competence rather than beneficial. Because now, making S.H.I.E.L.D. suck is just one more way a writer can say "Screw Stark!"
They do have their own title. It's called Iron Man. But because so many writers are fond of playing Kick the Shellhead, that, if anything, is detrimental to their competence rather than beneficial. Because now, making S.H.I.E.L.D. suck is just one more way a writer can say "Screw Stark!"
Like I said, I don't think Iron Man counts.
Iron Man is more a super hero than SHIELD director... which means ultimately he'll save the day by suiting up and beating the badguy himself. It's not a case of SHIELD saving the day, but largely Tony doing it.
Catlin
05-22-2008, 03:49 PM
There's a good chance it was Sharon Carter. She was ED for a bit in the late 90s.
Um, let me find my issue...Val was acting head of SHIELD, at least according to that ish. The rescue of Cyclops from SHIELD was in X-Force #55.
Jeff-X
05-22-2008, 04:33 PM
Exodus and co broke into it just before Messiah Complex.
And was that the helicarrier that Winter Soldier broke into during Civil War or a ground base?
StoneGold
05-22-2008, 05:03 PM
the real question should be, "should SHIELD be portrayed as more competent?" i think they should be a little better than overpaid mall security.
Problem is, if they didn't suck, that wouldn't give anything for the heroes to do. Even when Fury was leading the outfit, most of SHIELD was pretty incompetent, so that it would force Fury to get into the field. I mean, if you think the Skrull infiltration is bad, you should read the series when the Deltites took over. And that was directly under Fury's nose.
Monty_Cristo
05-22-2008, 05:08 PM
Problem is, if they didn't suck, that wouldn't give anything for the heroes to do. Even when Fury was leading the outfit, most of SHIELD was pretty incompetent, so that it would force Fury to get into the field. I mean, if you think the Skrull infiltration is bad, you should read the series when the Deltites took over. And that was directly under Fury's nose.
SHIELD, as an organization, isn't about stopping super-villains from robbing banks. why would the heroes have nothing to do? SHIELD's an intelligence agency. they do stuff like track Hydra and AIM. they should be reluctantly working in tandem with superheroes; sometimes leading them by the nose to stop whatever threat they've uncovered. they should seem as if they have things covered like in the Iron Man movie, imo. otherwise, it makes Fury look like kind of a chump; he should be responsible enough to hire people who wouldn't let losers into the organization.
StoneGold
05-22-2008, 05:12 PM
SHIELD, as an organization, isn't about stopping super-villains from robbing banks. why would the heroes have nothing to do? SHIELD's an intelligence agency. they do stuff like track Hydra and AIM. they should be reluctantly working in tandem with superheroes; sometimes leading them by the nose to stop whatever threat they've uncovered. they should seem as if they have things covered like in the Iron Man movie, imo. otherwise, it makes Fury look like kind of a chump; he should be responsible enough to hire people who wouldn't let losers into the organization.
Because as long as Fury gets the occasional series, they're also in the ass-kicking game. Chalk it up to SHIELD's Cold War heritage, but they aren't just information gatherers, they're a military force in tight-fitting blue costumes.
SHIELD, as an organization, isn't about stopping super-villains from robbing banks. why would the heroes have nothing to do? SHIELD's an intelligence agency. they do stuff like track Hydra and AIM. they should be reluctantly working in tandem with superheroes; sometimes leading them by the nose to stop whatever threat they've uncovered. they should seem as if they have things covered like in the Iron Man movie, imo. otherwise, it makes Fury look like kind of a chump; he should be responsible enough to hire people who wouldn't let losers into the organization.
I think the problem is that SHIELD got so big, Fury lost the ability to weed out the losers and chumps.
If SHIELD were a small elite strike team of some kind directly under Fury's control, odds are it would be pretty darn effective. But once it grows into this big monster, with the UN and government cramping his style, it basically becomes just your atypical collection of Red Shirts unless Fury himself is there to directly call the shots.
StoneGold
05-22-2008, 05:28 PM
I think the problem is that SHIELD got so big, Fury lost the ability to weed out the losers and chumps.
That's what always happens, though. Every few years, they decide SHIELD needs to be this lightweight organization and kill everyone off. And then the very next thing they do is revive the Helicarrier, and restaff it, often with all the dead people.
Monty_Cristo
05-22-2008, 06:31 PM
Because as long as Fury gets the occasional series, they're also in the ass-kicking game. Chalk it up to SHIELD's Cold War heritage, but they aren't just information gatherers, they're a military force in tight-fitting blue costumes.
yes, but they'd still be about fighting Hydra and other terrorist organizations. again, the heroes have plenty to do. what they need to stop doing is dipping into SHIELD's rogues gallery.
Weapon Ick
05-22-2008, 07:02 PM
Thankfully Agent Brand treats all of her S.W.O.R.D. operatives like they're idiots anyways. Doing our job for us.
She actually has a lot of respect for Lockheed apparently.
Tobias Drake
05-22-2008, 07:05 PM
I think the problem is that SHIELD got so big, Fury lost the ability to weed out the losers and chumps.
If SHIELD were a small elite strike team of some kind directly under Fury's control, odds are it would be pretty darn effective. But once it grows into this big monster, with the UN and government cramping his style, it basically becomes just your atypical collection of Red Shirts unless Fury himself is there to directly call the shots.
Plus, having more agents triggers the Law of Conservation of Ninjitsu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjitsu).
Will.S
05-22-2008, 07:10 PM
I think DC's Checkmate has been out S.H.I.E.L.D.'ing SHIELD as far as effectiveness goes but then again their structure is a split mix of superheroes and normals.
StoneGold
05-22-2008, 07:30 PM
yes, but they'd still be about fighting Hydra and other terrorist organizations. again, the heroes have plenty to do.
Except plenty of heroes fight HYDRA and AIM and stuff.
yamiangie
05-22-2008, 09:54 PM
And was that the helicarrier that Winter Soldier broke into during Civil War or a ground base?
It was a ground base. I'm not sure if that one is fair because Sharon had given him and Nick the info on the place before hand.
Monty_Cristo
05-23-2008, 06:30 PM
Except plenty of heroes fight HYDRA and AIM and stuff.
"what they need to stop doing is dipping into SHIELD's rogues gallery." superheroes, if they need to encounter Hydra at all, should be facing supervillains have aligned with Hydra or superpowered Hydra agents. it's not that hard.
Plus, having more agents triggers the Law of Conservation of Ninjitsu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjitsu).
Course, Enemy of the State proved that SHIELD will even job to large numbers of ninjas.
Though in all fairness, the Hand actually came off good there.
Mark_S
05-23-2008, 07:36 PM
The main problem is that it is very easy for the writers at marvel to write stories where SHIELD agents are either out and out evil or incompetent or both. Somebody breaking into a SHIELD base or HQ is an easy way to move the plot along and the writers don't care if SHIELD looks bad because SHIELD agents aren't really important characters. The Hood spending two or three issues finding a way around SHIELD security to break his guys out would make sense, but not if you are a writer in a hurry to get to the next fight scene.
In my opinion marvel writers just chose the easiest way out. SHIELD agents could probably foul up an operation to infiltrate Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. They only time they are effective at all is when they are chasing down heroes, or in DOS where they can bask in Tony's glory.
Mark_S
jackolover
05-23-2008, 11:18 PM
SHIELD, as an organization, isn't about stopping super-villains from robbing banks. why would the heroes have nothing to do? SHIELD's an intelligence agency. they do stuff like track Hydra and AIM. they should be reluctantly working in tandem with superheroes; sometimes leading them by the nose to stop whatever threat they've uncovered. they should seem as if they have things covered like in the Iron Man movie, imo. otherwise, it makes Fury look like kind of a chump; he should be responsible enough to hire people who wouldn't let losers into the organization.
SHIELD should have been the ones who discovered Skrulls were infiltrating, if they are the intelligence agency of the world. They should have psychics, and monitoring space craft coming and going, why didn't they sound the alarm? SI is practically what SHIELD was made for. As far as keeping a heap of irons in the fire, SHIELD should have a million threats in their sights at once, and surely, with all the aliens that have landed in the MU over the history of SHIELD, Skrulls would have to be one of them.
mikekerr3
05-24-2008, 12:51 AM
Plus, having more agents triggers the Law of Conservation of Ninjitsu (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjitsu).
Thanks for the link :biggrin: I loved that, I had not thought of it quite that way and now it's head slapping obvious:eek:
SHIELD should have been the ones who discovered Skrulls were infiltrating, if they are the intelligence agency of the world. They should have psychics, and monitoring space craft coming and going, why didn't they sound the alarm? SI is practically what SHIELD was made for. As far as keeping a heap of irons in the fire, SHIELD should have a million threats in their sights at once, and surely, with all the aliens that have landed in the MU over the history of SHIELD, Skrulls would have to be one of them.
Well, the problem is that they infiltrated SHIELD itself (well that in addition to the fact that SHIELD basically sucks without Fury holding it's hand).
Fury by himself figured out something was up. Had he not been removed from the picture, perhaps SHIELD would have discovered this thing. But things just landed in the skrulls favor all around (or perhaps they manipulated things that way).
matthewaos
05-24-2008, 07:37 AM
Actually I think to apply to much reason. It's a comic book. If Skrulls could not infiltrate SHIELD, and if SHIELD was so great and stopped everything before the regular heroes do the job, would marvel had any meaning of existence?
Magneto Rocks
05-24-2008, 08:33 AM
Well, the problem is that they infiltrated SHIELD itself (well that in addition to the fact that SHIELD basically sucks without Fury holding it's hand).
See I don't get this, XPac, you keep claiming SHIELD were actually useful in any way when Fury was in charge but I honestly don't think there was even a slight change in their grunt status.
See I don't get this, XPac, you keep claiming SHIELD were actually useful in any way when Fury was in charge but I honestly don't think there was even a slight change in their grunt status.
Did you ever read Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD (or Strange Taleswhere SHIELDfirst debuted)?They had their moments.
And I certainly don't recall the sky raining helicarriers to the degree it has been lately.
Teh m0nk3y
05-24-2008, 11:15 AM
Did you ever read Nick Fury Agent of SHIELD (or Strange Taleswhere SHIELDfirst debuted)?They had their moments.
And I certainly don't recall the sky raining helicarriers to the degree it has been lately.
There's almost a whole page of examples showing how incompetent SHIELD has been in the past, way before Stark or Hill was ever given the position of Director. You even state that SHIELD has been successful in Fury's various solo series, but isn't that how SHIELD is portrayed in Iron Man's Director of SHIELD?
I swear it's the only current series where SHIELD has shown how competent they actually are. Having SHIELD actually function in Fury's own series is a given.
And here's a whole bunch of quotes that's almost a page long stating how SHIELD has always been incompetent in the past.
you're all being dishonest. the Helicarrier has been broken into before; during Fury's command. Jessica Drew has slipped into his office before without alerting anyone. many of the people working directly under Fury have outright replaced by sophisticated robots. the big Hydra attack led by Elektra and Wolverine happened during Fury's "term." you're being ridiculous if you think that security has slipped. i won't even mention internal corruption. wait, yes i will. did anyone here read that story arc in SHIELD where Jack Truman was sent after Cable? that one ended with a hearing that made Clay Quartermain and a few other guys out to be Hydra-level corrupt.
What he said.
SHIELD has always made great cannon fodder.
I remember this one time during Fury's tenure, X-Force broke into a hellicarrier to extract a captured Cyclops. G.W. Bridge was there with his men, but of course Cable and company made it out of there. Making this another example of how often SHIELD have failed in the past.No, Fury was considered dead at that time that happened. It was either Val or Dum-Dum in charge.
*g* I have the whole X-Force 1st series memorized, because I'm that geeky.
Heck, SHIELD has had problems from day one. Even Baron Strucker managed to infiltrate SHIELD at one point, back during the Strange Tales stories. And at the first meeting, when Fury was being offered the SHIELD director position, a bomb was on the Hellicarrier, which Nick managed to get out a window just in time.
That could be the key right there. Seems like the acting director is assumed to be dead just about every other day. Remember when the Black Widow was in charge? I do.
Problem is, if they didn't suck, that wouldn't give anything for the heroes to do. Even when Fury was leading the outfit, most of SHIELD was pretty incompetent, so that it would force Fury to get into the field. I mean, if you think the Skrull infiltration is bad, you should read the series when the Deltites took over. And that was directly under Fury's nose.
When Fury is portrayed as a protagonist of course SHIELD is going to function.
SHIELD functions in bloody Director of SHIELD. Even the examples where SHIELD actually won something, was because Fury was being hands on. Why does that exclude Stark? Is it because Stark has traditionally been seen as a "super-hero"?
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