Wonder Woman #20 Out Today! SPOILERS OKAY!

[Gail Simone]

Part One of a wild ride into the Black Horizon.

Anyone get it?

[ShaunN]

Dear Gail,

I have not picked this up yet, but I'm going into the city today and it's number one on my list of things to do!

Really looking forward to this. ;-)

Sincerely,

Shaun

[Bo Bo]

Gah, I just realised that I won't be able to stop by my lcs until friday. :frown:

[K-DoG7p7]

GAH!

Nope.. i always get my comics 2 days later(sometimes.. if i'm lucky.. the next day! has happened 3 times so far this year! )

[Chiroptera]

I wasn't planning to go till Friday but now.... ARGH! Curse you Gail, why do you taunt me so!?

[4PointOh]

I reviewed it on my blog:

http://sonofbaldwin.blogspot.com/2008/05/review-wonder-woman-20.html

[TCJohnson]

Hey! I don't get my comics until Saturday, ok! Stop being so pushy! ;)

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

Well, I was gonna post and tell everyone how great it was, but apparently I'm the only one who's read it so far and I don't want to spoil it for everyone else...

[4PointOh]

There is a moment of pure dialogical genius:

Beowulf: I deem you ill-used, girl. I could find but many uses for you.

Diana: Funny, I was about to say you might try being something other than a warrior yourself. But you're too ugly to be a whore.

Brilliant stuff.

[Gail Simone]

Diana takes shit from no one, poet warrior lord or not.

:)

Sorry you didn't seem to care for the issue as much, Bobby. I think Diana exploring the OTHER mythologies of the DCU is a very fun direction, but the arc IS just four issues and I hope we get you back with the next issue!

[stamen]

Part One of a wild ride into the Black Horizon.

Anyone get it?

I got it, but might need some time to "get it." :smile:

Since spoilers are ok, she's sort of trapped in her own lasso, right? The emptiness of a soul-world where she must confront the devil himself?

All in all, I enjoyed this offering. The touches that made it for me were the mercy killing of the wolves (those captions were all amazing) and then her quote about truth being a multi-headed hydra.

It's those sorts of things that keep me coming back for more. The major plot points were good, but to me they're pretty secondary to the actual language you choose in employing your craft.

Glad I picked it up for sure.

[Agent_Torpor]

Diana would look so much more regal and ass-kickingy in some heeled boots.

[Linkara]

AWESOME, Gail! I wasn't too into the Khund two-parter, but this was just fantastic! I can't help but feel that Diana's "six-member team" isn't reminiscent of the "Operation Lightning Storm" idea over in Ms. Marvel if it goes where I think it's going. However, I'm not saying that's a bad thing - I love to see obscure characters given a second chance at things under the pen of a great writer. ^_~

I'm kind of confused about the idea that "Someone with no soul" could do that to Diana via her lasso, since it seems like truth is independent of a soul. However, it does make me wonder if this guy is supposed to be Faust, though I thought his eyes were black and not red.

And, as always, Diana's compassion for even the wolves proves how much you get the character, Gail. :biggrin: Can't wait for Issue 21!

[JKCarrier]

Diana: Funny, I was about to say you might try being something other than a warrior yourself. But you're too ugly to be a whore.

Wait, Diana says this?

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/JKCarrier/Forum%20Stuff/facepalm.jpg

[Linkara]

Wait, Diana says this?

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u313/JKCarrier/Forum%20Stuff/facepalm.jpg

She was in the middle of a mystical mind journey. She may not entirely be herself, also said mystical mind journey was in an ancient period, so the language would probably be easier for Beowulf to comprehend.

[Kyuubi]

I got it, but I have about a month of comics I haven't read yet, so it may have to wait.

[shrike]

God dang!! I forgot to hit my comics shop en route from work... and at 4 bucks a gallon I think it may be tomorrow when I get it (preview looks DELICIOUS, so I'm sure it'll be terrific).

[Chiroptera]

Well, Gail’s excitement convinced me to go ahead and swing by my LCS on the way home from my dental check up today.
Sadly, like Bobby, I was less that wowed with this issue. I’m going to just go with the classics here and break this down into what I liked and what I didn’t like.

Liked!
I liked that we got to see Diana in a more mythic setting. Encountering Beowulf while on his search for Grendel? Very cool.
I LOVED her dialogue interactions with him. I’ve always felt that Diana, being both diplomat and warrior, would and should know that there’s a time and place for certain kinds of language.
In the case of Beowulf, calling him a whore seemed quite fitting. It was exactly the sharp tongued face-slapping response that would catch a he-man of Beowulf’s caliber off-guard.

I was pleased with Aaron’s art. There’s room for improvement here, definitely, as mentioned by Bobby there are times when a characters appearance shifted from panel to panel both in age and physique, but that could just as easily be the fault of the coloring rather than the pencils.


Didn’t Like!
Inconsistancy. I think the story could have flowed a lot better if we got the Diana Prince angle first before being tossed out into the snowy mountains with Diana. There’s a lot of things that don’t make sense to me that might make me sense if they were just sequenced more fluidly. I think jumping back and forth between “in the office” and “in the mead hall” really made the story hard to follow.
When I went back and read the story this way; Reading only the pages involving the scenes in Diana’s DMA office, then going back and reading the Wonder woman bits in the snow and the mead hall, the story made a lot more sense to me.

The scene involving Diana, Etta, and the stranger in her office apparently happened some 6 or so hours before her mental/time traveling journey back to find Beowulf. But a lot of the things that happened in it don’t seem to carry over into the later point in time the way they should, and there were some things within the scene itself which just didn’t make sense to me.

One thing Diana’s learned in her years amongst humans is t hat they’re very good at lying. We lie typically at least 5 times a day. Now, being the women who was once a goddess of truth, I can understand her desire to believe someone might be honest but when a stranger shows up in my office, and moves so fast that he can cut through my best friends gun with a sword by the time she’s pulled it out of her holster?

I’m not gonna just wrap my mystic, soul connecting golden lasso when he offers up his hands to me. I’m going to have a few questions, and usually in the past Diana’s been shown to be a very good judge of character WITHOUT needing to resort to the lasso. I understand that her being ensnared by the connection between herself and this strange visitor, but I think the scene moved WAY too quickly.
It felt forced, as do most of the scenes involving her time in her civilian guise. I’ve yet to be pulled into this part of her character since her relaunch, it just doesn’t feel like a real part of her character, though the insinuation in this issue that there’s more to her new civilian identity than what we’ve been made privy too did elevate my curiosity.

I also question why, if she has no access to her powers in this strange dream world, she is able to still communicate with and sense the emotions of animals. This was yet another blessing from the gods like her strength, speed, flight and all the other powers. If she cannot access her powers then how can she have known the thoughts of the wolves she was fighting?




So there we go. Not bad by any means, it was an enjoyable read, but it didn’t really do anything to particularly impress me.

Wow… I just realized how many more dislikes I have compared to likes! I didn’t think it was bad, honest, I just think it could have been better!

[BnL]

I loved this issue. It's probably a little early to say this, since it's only one issue in, but I think this may shape up to be my favorite arc so far. The Beowulf material was great, and, I admit...I'm even intrigued by the Diana Prince stuff this issue. I can't wait to see where that's going. I appreciate that Gail will be taking the time to explain the secret identity thing. All very intriguing...

And I really enjoyed Aaron's art too. I particularly appreciated the subtle facial expressions as Diana fought the wolves. You could tell it pained her to have to cause them harm. I also loved how he used the lasso as panel borders. Attention to detail like that really impresses me.

It's a home run as far as I'm concerned, Gail. :smile:

[Michael P]

I'm not exactly sure what's going on, but Diana + Beowulf = Awesome.

[4PointOh]

And I really enjoyed Aaron's art too. I particularly appreciated the subtle facial expressions as Diana fought the wolves. You could tell it pained her to have to cause them harm. I also loved how he used the lasso as panel borders.

It's his skill as a storyteller, I think. The lasso borders weren't simply eye-candy. They were meant to suggest another space being occupied in the story.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Exotic locales, perilous quests in said exotic locales, fights a plenty, and creepy new predicaments. I ask, is it any wonder why I've fallen hard for this title?

And man, I think I'm almost tempted to go "Terry who?" in regards to the art.

[tangentman]

I can only call the latest issue PHENOMENAL[/b}! The story held my interest from first panel to last, and left me hungry for more. Gail, the choice for your "very old" hero was simply inspired! Stalker was one of the names which popped to mind when I read that preview, and I'm pleased to see such an obscure hero play a major role.

The battle with the wolves took my breath away--gorgeous art, poetic narrative, plus Diana's struggle with finding the most compassionate resolution to the problem. Gail, what impresses me about your Wonder Woman is the integrity she shows in handling the "little battles" as well as the epic ones. Her empathy with the plight of the wolves--and subsequent act of mercy--showed insight into Diana which few writers have captured!

Needless to say, l love seeing Diana in mythical settings! Wonder Woman meeting Beowulf was simply reader pleasure on my part! Are you limiting Diana's journey to Beowulf's world, or will we see other literary/mythical settings? BTW, though I think your story is highly original, I think you still pulled off a nice homage to that Bronze Age story where "Emma Peel Wonder Woman" fought the armies of Mars alongside the heroes of literature.

Aaron impressed me with his first outing on Wonder Woman! The "Sword & Sorcery" interpretation of her costume worked for me. I also liked the "Lasso Border"--you folks keep making excellent choices in the way you tell the story! I can't wait for next issue!


[b]A+

[Tyr]

What Tyr like....

Diana fights stuff weee!!!!!

Diana and Beowulf! YAY!!!!!! Wooohoooo!!!!! http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9719/olafdancemw9.gif

What Tyr not like as much....

Not sure I'm crazy about the whole Black Horizon, Diana losing her soul thing, and the whole "Rolling Stones Painted Black" monologue that she has going on.

Also I agree with Chiro the beggining of the Mystic journey felt somewhat rushed to me.

Still I do look foward to the next issue, and the whole "New outfit every issue" thing thats going on. And the whole mythic quest, Something tells me will see her joining up with the knights of the round table somewhere down the road. :rolleyes:

[Chiroptera]

Oh also I forgot...

I to have to question the whole soul losing thing!
So mr. red eyes siad she was to compassionate for the deed ahead, thus he stole some of that compassion away and sent her to a mental plain where her powers are null, to go and face the devil...

Yet, she can still talk to the animals... AND She still has compassion to give a mercy killing to said confused/enraged animals? Buh???

I imagine this may be explained later, but it really needed to be explained in this issue, other wise it's just left like the one gaping hole in the plot; and that's just bugging the **** outta me right now! :(

[Gail Simone]

No, it didn't.

It's not a mental plane...she's really in Beowulf's era, by the way.

[Usernamessd]

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/874/874168p1.html
http://www.reviewbusters.net/book/review.aspx?id=934

Two reviewers who think Beowulf is based on the movie or the poem.

[Linkara]

No, it didn't.

It's not a mental plane...she's really in Beowulf's era, by the way.

...But her body's still held by Etta... but not in the...

Huh?

[4PointOh]

Part of me thinks the guy Eric from Reviewbusters is pissed because Diana proved herself equal--if not superior--to gool ol' boy, Beowulf.

[Gail Simone]

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/874/874168p1.html
http://www.reviewbusters.net/book/review.aspx?id=934

Two reviewers who think Beowulf is based on the movie or the poem.

That's fine. Listen, it's not their fault. But I can't be responsible for people's beliefs of intention AFTER the comic comes out. I love the DCU version of Beowulf, and don't care in the least about the movie version. Haven't seen it, even though I was invited to the sneak premiere in Hollywood.

It's the DCU barbarians this story is about.

[4PointOh]

That's fine. Listen, it's not their fault. But I can't be responsible for people's beliefs of intention AFTER the comic comes out. I love the DCU version of Beowulf, and don't care in the least about the movie version. Haven't seen it, even though I was invited to the sneak premiere in Hollywood.

It's the DCU barbarians this story is about.

I will love you if DCU resident female barbarian Starfire shows up.

:biggrin:

[Gail Simone]

Eh, I just read the review, it's fine, but...

Ack, the whole FUN of the DC and Marvel universes is the crazy stuff that connects in odd ways. Superman just recently teamed up with the Silent Knight. That is FUN. Iron Man went back to Camelot. The Avengers fought Morgan LeFay (if I remember correctly).

Why CAN'T WW fight alongside Beowulf?

Not sure I get that point.

But glad he liked the art.

Me, I'm having a blast.

[Gail Simone]

I will love you if DCU resident female barbarian Starfire shows up.

:biggrin:

Heh.

I don't say things.

[TCJohnson]

Part of me thinks the guy Eric from Reviewbusters is pissed because Diana proved herself equal--if not superior--to gool ol' boy, Beowulf.

But he raves about Titans #2 buecause it is basically porn for young readers.

[Gail Simone]

...But her body's still held by Etta... but not in the...

Huh?

The scene with Stalker took place, in Diana's time, six hours BEFORE the scenes with the Mead Hall.

[Gail Simone]

But he raves about Titans #2 buecause it is basically porn for young readers.

Yeah, I didn't see that.

I don't know what else to say. I don't take offense at bad reviews, it's always fine with me if someone expresses their dislike for a story I wrote, as long as they play fair with the facts. He was honestly giving his opinion...it's fine! :)

[Flamebird]

Heh.

I don't say things.

We've noticed. Maybe we should ask that Tamryn chick.

[4PointOh]

Why CAN'T WW fight alongside Beowulf?

1. Because she's a girl. Ew.

2. Because she's Wonder Woman and everyone knows Wonder Woman isn't a warrior, much less a warrior of epic, Beowulf character.

3. Because she's a girl. Ew.

[Alex L]

Funny that I was re-reading the JSA Returns mini a couple of days ago, and they also had a black-haired, red-eyed villain named Stalker:

http://i30.tinypic.com/j14l1u.jpg

[Trench]

Read it. Liked it.

And the sword-wielding soulless man? Hm...

In-jokes rule.

[Michael P]

The Avengers fought Morgan LeFay (if I remember correctly).

On more than one occasion, although I suspect the one you're referring to is the kick-off to the Busiek/Perez Avengers run, where Morgan turned the world into a little medieval pastiche and all the Avengers got cool new costumes and Hawkeye had a beard.

[Fatguy]

1. Because she's a girl. Ew.

2. Because she's Wonder Woman and everyone knows Wonder Woman isn't a warrior, much less a warrior of epic, Beowulf character.

3. Because she's a girl. Ew.

I dont normally use these, but you get three!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I loved the issue, btw, The dialogue between Beowulf and WW was absolutely SUPERB. I get that WW is the "peaceful warrior" and all that jazz, a kind and noble spirit...but it's nice to see her verbally OWN Beowulf in that scene! One of my favorite WW scenes of all time, from this point forward.

[Tyr]

Why CAN'T WW fight alongside Beowulf?


Well I think its beca--

Oh look! vikings and norse stuff! I like norse stuff!

I demand Wonder Woman shows up in more Norse Sagas in this run!

I demand she fights alongside Sigurd!

[Gail Simone]

Wizard liked it a lot.

:)

[4PointOh]

I dont normally use these, but you get three!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I loved the issue, btw, The dialogue between Beowulf and WW was absolutely SUPERB. I get that WW is the "peaceful warrior" and all that jazz, a kind and noble spirit...but it's nice to see her verbally OWN Beowulf in that scene! One of my favorite WW scenes of all time, from this point forward.

I don't know if you're giving them to me because you think I actually believe that stuff or because you simply disagree that that's why that reviewer had problems with the issue.

[estee]

I didn't know there was a DC Beowulf.

Makes things a bit clearer. Not that I felt any confusion when I first read the issue.

I mean, it's a comic book after all and not James Joyce's Ulysses. :wink:

Oh yeah...the issue rocked!

[Gail Simone]

I don't know if you're giving them to me because you think I actually believe that stuff or because you simply disagree that that's why that reviewer had problems with the issue.

Bobby! You've been a HUGE supporter of the book! We all know that!

No one's taking shots--I'm sorry you didn't care for the issue as much but no one for a minute thinks it's because you are not a big supporter!

[Fatguy]

I don't know if you're giving them to me because you think I actually believe that stuff or because you simply disagree that that's why that reviewer had problems with the issue.

lol because I thought it was silly that you believed someone had issue with Wonder Woman meeting Beowulf based on the fact that Wonder Woman is a "Girl, ew!".

But to be fair, I didn't realize you were speaking about a reviewer specifically and I didn't read his review. So maybe I'm wrong with how silly your theory is. Maybe the reviewer was a raging masochist. Or an 11 year old boy.

[4PointOh]

Bobby! You've been a HUGE supporter of the book! We all know that!

No one's taking shots--I'm sorry you didn't care for the issue as much but no one for a minute thinks it's because you are not a big supporter!

I'm glad. Because I bought two issues this week, one for my regular collection and one to welcome Aaron aboard.

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

Realized the red-eyed guy :evilsmile: was probably Stalker after some other folks brought him up. He's been bouncing around the DC Universe for some time. Wasn't he in Primal Force, or whatever it was called? And, while heavy mythology comics ain't really my thing, I'm okay with this direction and I'm enjoying the story.

So, Diana is overwhelmed by despair and emptiness, eh? Join the club...

Oh, as for Diana's ability to talk to animals, I was assuming that was one of her inborn Amazon talents, not one of her 'super-powers.' Could be wrong, though. Glad Gail brought it back, since so many fanboys used it to HATE it when she did that.

And Etta's still a delight. Didn't much care for her talking to the Ichon last issue --It felt kinda Nicholas Bradford-- but she's great as a Rhoda to Diana's Mary.

[4PointOh]

Realized the red-eyed guy :evilsmile: was probably Stalker after some other folks brought him up. He's been bouncing around the DC Universe for some time. Wasn't he in Primal Force, or whatever it was called? And, while heavy mythology comics ain't really my thing, I'm okay with this direction and I'm enjoying the story.

So, Diana is overwhelmed by despair and emptiness, eh? Join the club...

Oh, as for Diana's ability to talk to animals, I was assuming that was one of her inborn Amazon talents, not one of her 'super-powers.' Could be wrong, though. Glad Gail brought it back, since so many fanboys used it to HATE it when she did that.

And Etta's still a delight. Didn't much care for her talking to the Ichon last issue --It felt kinda Nicholas Bradford-- but she's great as a Rhoda to Diana's Mary.

Aren't all of Diana's "superpowers" inborn? Wasn't she blessed with strength and the unity with beasts just prior to her coming to life?

[Cayman]

I can't remember exactly how Stalker was left at the conclusion of the JSA event with him in it. Didn't he kill a couple of old school magic characters, like Ibis?

It was interesting to see him again. He's a nice left-field choice to add to the cast of the book.

[Gail Simone]

lol because I thought it was silly that you believed someone had issue with Wonder Woman meeting Beowulf based on the fact that Wonder Woman is a "Girl, ew!".

But to be fair, I didn't realize you were speaking about a reviewer specifically and I didn't read his review. So maybe I'm wrong with how silly your theory is. Maybe the reviewer was a raging masochist. Or an 11 year old boy.

I don't know, the reviewer doesn't say why Diana's not in Beowulf's league, but Bobby's theory definitely isn't 'silly.'

It's just that we don't know the full story.

[Fatguy]

I don't know, the reviewer doesn't say why Diana's not in Beowulf's league, but Bobby's theory definitely isn't 'silly.'

It's just that we don't know the full story.

Like I said, I didn't know the discussion was about a particular interview, and I hadn't read what the reviewer said. Now, however, I just read the review and I can see the part that's being discussed.

"What makes Gail Simone think that Wonder Woman can fight alongside with Beowulf?"

And I have to say, it still seems a bit silly to think that the reason he said that was that he thought girl's are "ew". Out of context that line makes 4PointOh's theory sound, but when you read the whole thing it becomes pretty clear the reviewer just thinks the two meeting is preposterous. Probably because (like me, I might add :wink:) he didn't/doesn't know that the DCU has a Beowulf.

If nothing else, I would assume he's much fonder of Beowulf than he is of Wonder Woman. Him thinking Boys >>>> Girls, just doesn't seem as likely.

Who knows in the end, though. We're just guessing at intent...and god knows we males arent the most enlightened bunch at times. I just think it's a bit silly to jump to the most controversial conclusion from so little.

[Chris Hansbrough]

quick review.....damn solid work...loved the issue....love the art....it's the best it's looked since Drew was drawing for Greggers....liked the story....good start cool set-up......lot of characters I would love to see in this and can't wait to see who else shows up.....

[Linkara]

I don't know, the reviewer doesn't say why Diana's not in Beowulf's league, but Bobby's theory definitely isn't 'silly.'

It's just that we don't know the full story.

I don't think it's silly at all, especially reading that review of Titans #2. I mean, he scored it higher than Wonder Woman? Look, I'm supporting the Winick Titans book as much as I think he's doing a terrible job with it, and I'll give it props for actually advancing the plot (making it hella better than #1), but giving it more points than Wonder Woman particularly because of all the T&A? The guy's a total idiot and is acting rather sexist.

However, if it's his contention rather that it doesn't make any sense for Beowulf to work alongside Wonder Woman because he's a character of fiction (which would be what I would contend it to be if I hadn't seen that Titans review), than the man obviously knows nothing about the rich history of comic books grabbing from fictional characters.

Also, thanks for the earlier explanation, Gail. ^_~ Now I'm just wondering how she got from the office to the mountain.

[Chiroptera]

Oh, as for Diana's ability to talk to animals, I was assuming that was one of her inborn Amazon talents, not one of her 'super-powers.' Could be wrong, though. Glad Gail brought it back, since so many fanboys used it to HATE it when she did that.


I was thrilled to see it myself, I was just very confused by the time line. However, as I said, her blessing is in fact a power, not an inborn amazon trait. She is the only amazon who can speak with animals, a blessing given to her by Artemis.

Now that I know that it's not some strange mental realm Diana is in I'm mor inclined to speculate that not -all- her powers are turned off but rather just the ones that would classify her as "super." The god like strength, speed, flight, and stuff that would make her an over-powered warrior.

That seems the likely scenario, since it is what often happens to mythic warriors in tales like this. They're stripped of the powers that make them above others, and made to do things as naturally as others would.
This also would explain why she still has the compassion to slay the mad wolves. If the whole office thing happened before she embarked on this quest than perhaps she somehow regained it before actually setting out?


Now, quick question, Gail! I think I'll be able to follow better if I've got the time line set straight for me.

So the time line for this issue was something like:
"6 Hours ago"
- Diana gets promotion!
- Diana and Etta have lunch. Awkward but friendly conversation ensues!
- Diana and Etta go to her office, strange man inside!
- Strange man tricks Diana by having her use the lasso on him, only to find he is soulless and thus an anamoly that her lasso reacts negatively to (if I followed that correctly?)
- Etta manages to untangle Diana and lays her down. Diana murmurs incoherent babble of ice, cold and darkness!
- Revelation, Stalker needs Diana to kill El Diablo (dun dun dunnnn)


"Present Time (Ancient Scandinavia?)"
- Diana in the snowy mountains
- Oh no, enraged wolves!
- Mercy Killing of enraged wolves.
- Diana in a mead hall
- Oh Snap, It's Beowulf!
- Diana ownz in 'Yo mama' contest! :biggrin:
- Alliance made, Hurrah!

Is that fairly accurate?
And I still wanna know about the whole 'took away her compassion' but she had the compassion to slay the wolves thing! :confused:

[Michael P]

Out of context that line makes 4PointOh's theory sound, but when you read the whole thing it becomes pretty clear the reviewer just thinks the two meeting is preposterous. Probably because (like me, I might add :wink:) he didn't/doesn't know that the DCU has a Beowulf.

Even if he doesn't, it's still pretty stupid for him to think that Diana being born from and empowered by fictional, mythical Greek figures is all right, but if you bring in a fictional, mythical Scandanavian figure, the suspension of disbelief gets wrecked.

Bottom line, his opinion is dumb, and deserves mockery.

[Fatguy]

Even if he doesn't, it's still pretty stupid for him to think that Diana being born from and empowered by fictional, mythical Greek figures is all right, but if you bring in a fictional, mythical Scandanavian figure, the suspension of disbelief gets wrecked.

Bottom line, his opinion is dumb, and deserves mockery.

lol well, I can hardly defend his tastes and opinion, as they are both clearly terrible.

[amalgamut00]

Hey everyone this is Eric from the Review Busters. I know some of you might not agree with my review and that is fine. When I read the comic I took the whole Beowulf thing in another way, which might have been wrong. Even though I wasn't a fan of the issue I am still going to read the series.

I started getting into comics a few months ago and then I got the great idea on reviewing them for my site. It's really hard for me to do this and I will admit I'll go back and read certain issues and I will enjoy them. This was the case for Wonder Woman #18, which I believe I also gave a bad review.

The way I review new comic books might be bad, I'll take the stack I can afford on Wednesday and I will read them, then review them. If some of you have been reading my site for awhile you will notice how I favor Marvel more and I will say this right now that I am trying to read more DC Comics.

Again I hope you guys don't take my review the wrong way, even you Simone. I respect your talents, hell you have accomplished so much with the Wonder Woman series from what I heard.

Once again I am sorry if I pissed some of you off, but as of now my score will stand the way it is. Later down the road I plan on re-reviewing certain things so my score on Wonder Woman #20 may go up.

P.S. - Don't ask me why, but I enjoy the Titans a lot. The story is great, but like I said the whole T&A thing is a little over the top. I should this to my cousin on Thursday and he couldn't get past certain pages.

[Linkara]

Well, since you had the props to come on here and say that, I'm going to apologize for calling you an idiot and sexist. However, it came across in the Titans review that you actually LIKED the amount of T&A in the book, which in the case of Titans isn't IMHO very well done or proper in the book at all. Still props to you for coming here, Eric.

[stealthwise]

For some reason, I'm just not connecting with Gail's run so far. I liked the 2 parter with the GLs, but I just can't convince myself to give a shit about Diana at all. I found the same thing with Rucka's run, which was promising at the start, but then meandered and went nowhere.

I find that I have no idea where this story is headed, and I don't care much because DC's Final Crisis seems to be headed towards intertwining with everything, making me want to drop all things DC at the moment. I'm hopeful that I'll just start, well, CARING, because the book isn't poorly done, it's just my own lack of interest.

[amalgamut00]

Well, since you had the props to come on here and say that, I'm going to apologize for calling you an idiot and sexist. However, it came across in the Titans review that you actually LIKED the amount of T&A in the book, which in the case of Titans isn't IMHO very well done or proper in the book at all. Still props to you for coming here, Eric.

I'm not going to deny that I enjoy T&A like the next guy, but how it is in the Titans is a bit too much. I didn't think I came off as sounding like I enjoyed it a lot. To me I think the Titans series goes a little too far and in ways I was trying to be a smartass in my review.

[Gail Simone]

Hey everyone this is Eric from the Review Busters. I know some of you might not agree with my review and that is fine. When I read the comic I took the whole Beowulf thing in another way, which might have been wrong. Even though I wasn't a fan of the issue I am still going to read the series.

I started getting into comics a few months ago and then I got the great idea on reviewing them for my site. It's really hard for me to do this and I will admit I'll go back and read certain issues and I will enjoy them. This was the case for Wonder Woman #18, which I believe I also gave a bad review.

The way I review new comic books might be bad, I'll take the stack I can afford on Wednesday and I will read them, then review them. If some of you have been reading my site for awhile you will notice how I favor Marvel more and I will say this right now that I am trying to read more DC Comics.

Again I hope you guys don't take my review the wrong way, even you Simone. I respect your talents, hell you have accomplished so much with the Wonder Woman series from what I heard.

Once again I am sorry if I pissed some of you off, but as of now my score will stand the way it is. Later down the road I plan on re-reviewing certain things so my score on Wonder Woman #20 may go up.

P.S. - Don't ask me why, but I enjoy the Titans a lot. The story is great, but like I said the whole T&A thing is a little over the top. I should this to my cousin on Thursday and he couldn't get past certain pages.


Sweetie, you do not need to defend yourself here at ALL. You had an opinion and you expressed it, and there are zero hard feelings, as I said right up front.

I may disagree with your conclusions, but a reviewer is going to step on toes once in a while and if he or she isn't being honest, then they're not really doing it right.

No worries at all, and thanks for coming here to express your opinion. It's no worries at all. Hopefully, you'll like future issues more.

Best,

Gail

[Gail Simone]

For some reason, I'm just not connecting with Gail's run so far. I liked the 2 parter with the GLs, but I just can't convince myself to give a shit about Diana at all. I found the same thing with Rucka's run, which was promising at the start, but then meandered and went nowhere.

I find that I have no idea where this story is headed, and I don't care much because DC's Final Crisis seems to be headed towards intertwining with everything, making me want to drop all things DC at the moment. I'm hopeful that I'll just start, well, CARING, because the book isn't poorly done, it's just my own lack of interest.

I will KICK you in the SPLEEN!

:)

[stealthwise]

I will KICK you in the SPLEEN!

:)

That just might garner a reaction, albeit one I normally have to pay to get.

[Chiroptera]

Ya know stealth, I really know how you feel with the Final Crisis thing.. It feels rather over whelming. I can enjoy a long storyline, but I really dislike how they try and connect the huge 'summer event' stuff in so that it connects with 20 other books.
I know that from a writing stand point they do it to try and make the universe feel alot more real and have everything connect together so it really seems like one whole place but... It just doesn't work. It just makes reading the story become far to daunting a task.

I'm reading Batman RIP because Morrison said, while it will branch out into other comics for a couple issues it's main focus will remain where it is, in the Batman comic. That gave me hope, because it means for once I've got a story I can read without having to miss all the main points because they occured in issue 227 of some comic I don't read and have no interest in reading.


As to the whole run Gail's givne so far... Well, if you're favorite story was the GL two-parters? Then I'm willing to be money Wondy's just a character you're never going to care about, she doesn't speak to you in the right way to warrant your interest.
We've all got characters like that. I love Superman, he's a favorite character of mine... But I just cannot read his comics. If he's in Justice League? Awesome? His All-star comic? Awesome. But I just have never found his normal main stream solo title to be something that could hold my interest.
I'd say stop spending those three bucks a month on WW and spend it on a comic you will enjoy fully. Get your money's worth!

And for Hera's sake Gail, tell me if my time line was accurate! I've re-read the story four times now, and if I've gotten it write than I must up my review from okay to Yay!

[Gail Simone]

Ya know stealth, I really know how you feel with the Final Crisis thing.. It feels rather over whelming. I can enjoy a long storyline, but I really dislike how they try and connect the huge 'summer event' stuff in so that it connects with 20 other books.
I know that from a writing stand point they do it to try and make the universe feel alot more real and have everything connect together so it really seems like one whole place but... It just doesn't work. It just makes reading the story become far to daunting a task.

I'm reading Batman RIP because Morrison said, while it will branch out into other comics for a couple issues it's main focus will remain where it is, in the Batman comic. That gave me hope, because it means for once I've got a story I can read without having to miss all the main points because they occured in issue 227 of some comic I don't read and have no interest in reading.


As to the whole run Gail's givne so far... Well, if you're favorite story was the GL two-parters? Then I'm willing to be money Wondy's just a character you're never going to care about, she doesn't speak to you in the right way to warrant your interest.
We've all got characters like that. I love Superman, he's a favorite character of mine... But I just cannot read his comics. If he's in Justice League? Awesome? His All-star comic? Awesome. But I just have never found his normal main stream solo title to be something that could hold my interest.
I'd say stop spending those three bucks a month on WW and spend it on a comic you will enjoy fully. Get your money's worth!

And for Hera's sake Gail, tell me if my time line was accurate! I've re-read the story four times now, and if I've gotten it write than I must up my review from okay to Yay!

You've gotten it right!

[stealthwise]

We've all got characters like that. I love Superman, he's a favorite character of mine... But I just cannot read his comics. If he's in Justice League? Awesome? His All-star comic? Awesome. But I just have never found his normal main stream solo title to be something that could hold my interest.
I'd say stop spending those three bucks a month on WW and spend it on a comic you will enjoy fully. Get your money's worth!


It's all that damned Brubaker's fault. I NEVER, ever thought I would give a crap about Captain America, but now I'm getting so impatient for each of his arcs that I'm buying the bloody hardcovers! That shook my world, and even though I've never given a crap about Wonder Woman before, I'm still holding out until at least the end of this arc to see how I feel. I also ordered the Hekateia (sp?) online today. I loved Wonder Woman in New Frontier, but I don't think anyone's been able to capture that same lightning in a bottle that Cooke produced.

[Chiroptera]

You've gotten it right!

YAY! :biggrin: In that case, now that I know the timeline and have reread it I give this story a big thumbs up!

It's all that damned Brubaker's fault. I NEVER, ever thought I would give a crap about Captain America, but now I'm getting so impatient for each of his arcs that I'm buying the bloody hardcovers! That shook my world, and even though I've never given a crap about Wonder Woman before, I'm still holding out until at least the end of this arc to see how I feel. I also ordered the Hekateia (sp?) online today. I loved Wonder Woman in New Frontier, but I don't think anyone's been able to capture that same lightning in a bottle that Cooke produced.

Oooh Heketia is damn good! I think you'll like that one, we get a very "frontier" style Wondy scene there. Batman makes the mistake of trying to go through her to reach someone else. :tongue:

And over all I'd agree, there's no one who has captured Wonder Woman quite like the way Cooke did. He gave me pretty much my favorite versions of all the big three.

[troy2g1]

Before I get into my, uh, complaints, I want to say that I am really enjoying Gail's run so far. It's been quite a while since I've been able to read an intellectual Diana who is also self-confident (I miss Rucka!). I think Gail succeeds where most others fail: she has a gift 'getting' the voice of any character she writes. But what the H-E-L-L is up with the constant de-powering?

In the first arc, she should have dispatched The Circle before any of them could blink. Contrary to what Gail has stated in other threads, Diana *IS* that fast--and, yes, there is precedence for it. If someone can cite one example of Diana not possessing super-speed, then I can cite ten more in which she demonstrates it. As a matter of fact, the only issue that I can think of where Diana's speed is shown as limited is the Gail-penned arc of JLA: Classified.

Then I read a post from Gail that states The Lasso holds its own power and the power is not innate within Diana. Yes, there are varied examples that support both, but why would a writer who prides herself on female empowerment remove powers from the premier female super hero the (real & fake) world has ever known? The argument about Diana not having to be as fast or strong or durable just doesn't apply here since those abilities are not physical and are definitely not shared by anyone else.

So, Diana couldn't swiftly defeat renegade Amazons. She couldn't even defeat a Green Lantern with her own abilities (it had to be stated that she was only able to do as such since the GL's will was faltering). She didn't even fight Captain Nazi--she "won" by exploiting his tormented childhood. Now, in the current issue (which I should say is my favorite of Gail's run so far), she supposedly has no powers but that doesn't seem to include her connection to the Lasso (which is Diana's gift as it comes from Hestia). Then, Diana didn't know that she shouldn't use The Lasso against The Stalker, but Etta knew!?

I may be wrong, but I get the sense that Gail is more comfortable writing "street-level" characters like Black Canary and the Huntress and may be de-powering Diana in an effort to write her to that comfort level. I think that does Diana a great disservice.

[The Ray]

" Hunters of claw and fang "

Great line.

[The Ray]

Double post

[4PointOh]

Newsarama loved it, too:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=157475

If you have been waiting for a Wonder Woman you can root for, you need look no further than Wonder Woman #20.

[Gail Simone]

Wizard, Newsarama, comixtreme, lotta placed loved it.

I loved the art the best. :)

[TCJohnson]

Art was great, but too bad there weren't any of them words with it.


What? I was looking at the art. I don't remember no words.

[Wonder Watcher]

Here's my tuppenceworth.

Art I felt was excellent, a great debut by Aaron, I think my only nitpick is that Diana sometimes looked a little young in the head on shots. Beowulf looked awesome and ideas such as utlilizing the lasso for the panel borders were nice touches. I think Aaron is going to be a great asset to the book.

As for the story, I very much enjoyed it. On first read through there was an element of confusion because I forgot that the DOMA scenes were set six hours earlier. This became clearer on the second read through.

With Diana suddenly roaming ancient Scandinavia this was always going to be an issue that raised more questions than answers, not in itself a bad thing. Some questions that spring to mind and which I'm looking forward to being answered in future issues are;
- Who is on Diana's 'prospect' list that so shocked her ? : Tom I imagine.
- What could it be that Diana is afraid of telling Etta about why she took the DOMA job ?
- When her lasso threw her the feedback loop Stalker (who is new to me as a character so I'm going to have to do some research) said her compassion made her unable to complete the job at hand - this is 6 hours prior to her tete a tete with Beowulf so what is the 'job at hand' ?
- In order to convince Diana to kill the devil for him why would he send her to fight with Beowulf ? - To toughen her up and inure her to killing ?
- Why don't her powers work in Beowulf's era / realm ?

On the question of communicating with the wolves despite her loss of powers, didn't she do that through the lasso rather than her animal empathy?. I just assumed she was picking up on the animals emotions through the lasso before she took the decision to humanely killed them.

On the criticism I've read saying effectively "why did she use the lasso" the answer would probably be that she's never encountered this sort of problem with it before, very rarely encountered a truth she couldn't handle through the lasso, so why not use it ?. Maybe she'll be more wary in future. I didn't have a problem with it.

I loved the little Beowulf vs Diana encounter, great dialogue from both parties. I think that's probably the first time I've seen someone call Diana a slattern. No wonder he got a bust nose.

How long is this arc, 4 issues?. It looks like being a lot of fun.

[mgs]

it was an odd, entertaining tale....

[MPagar]

Finally got to read all of this one. Aaron's art is nice and clean. Reminds me a bit of George Perez's stuff in certain scenes, though that's not meant to take away from his own style. Plus that cover was excellent, along with the great details on some of the panel work(which I think I mentioned before).

It feels like the set-up issue that it is, and while it doesn't quite hook me as I'd hoped, there's still enough things happening that would compel me to keep sticking with the story for the time being.

[ShaunN]

Dear Gail,

Forgot to say how much I enjoyed this story. Yes, it's just the introductory chapter to the larger arc, but it sets up the story very well and introduces some interesting questions. I take it, from what you've said, that Diana is about to begin a cruise through the sword and sorcery titles of the 1970s that never went very far?

From wikipedia, I'm learned that Stalker seeks out the demon lord that took his soul (D'grth? I don't have my copy here...) and then eventually finds that he grows more and more like the devil as his quest continues. Eventually, he becomes the devil himself. I am going to assume that this same dynamic - or maybe his efforts to escape this fate - are driving his actions now.

I'm not crazy about Diana losing her powers, but I guess that sending a Superman-class superwoman into ancient Scandinavia, or any of the other realms that Diana is about to enter, would be making things far too easy. Still, I'm assuming that Diana will be back at full power when she takes on the devil.

Finally, I take it that what Stalker has given to Diana is a thirst for blood - clearly, she is still very compassionate, as the scene with the wolves demonstrates, but her desire to kill her foes seems very un-Diana-like.

Sincerely,

Shaun

[Tad Sivana]

I enjoyed the issue, but it's too early to say I loved it. Need more plot and story to judge.
I certainly like the elements including the appearances by Stalker and Beowulf.
Putting Diana in the mix is logical as an Amazon has got to be a close match to the legendary Valkyries of the era and mythos.
Any chance of the Viking Prince making a cameo?

[BnL]

I found this (http://comicsnthings.blogspot.com/2008/05/super-team-family-16.html) on the Gay League mailing list, and thought you guys would get a kick out of it. At first I thought it was a real comic! I was all ready to hunt it down until I finished reading the post. :tongue:

[ShaunN]

Dear BnL,

That's great! Makes me wish I knew how to use photoshop! (Or whatever program he used to get the effect!)

Sincerely,

Shaun