2008 U.S. Presidential Election Mega thread

[LtMarvel]

Wow... Obama moved people out of GA because they completed their goal of registering new voters there. Not because he gave up on the state. Get it right, media!

[KevinTBrown]

And now McCain supporters have taken to attacking reporters at McCain's speeches: http://blog.news-record.com/staff/capblog/archives/2008/10/report_from_pal.shtml

[Crowley]

The GOP gets a little more racist:
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_buck16.3d67d4a.html

http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2008/10-16/racist16_400.jpg

[the4thpip]

The GOP gets a little more racist:
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_buck16.3d67d4a.html

http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2008/10-16/racist16_400.jpg

As I quoted on the last page:


Diane Fedele, the president of the responsible organization, Chaffey Community Republican Women, Federated, says the image was distributed without any racist intent. "I never connected," she told a local newspaper. "It was just food to me. It didn't mean anything else."

Uh huh. Yeah right.

[Stressfactor]

I'm irritated as well about the backhanded insult to people on food stamps as well. There is that sneer in there also that African-Americans are always on food stamps, always sponging off the government, too lazy to get a job, etc., etc., etc.

[K-DoG7p7]

On the Daily Show they did a great segment about "Joe the Plumber". In it...they basically made a joke about how the media went monkey shit crazy over the guy.

John Stewart: "We join John Oliver as he's at Joe's house...why all this attention John ?"

John Oliver : "Well , John you see Joe is a hero (clips of Joe echoing every Republican talking point ) its like taking an injection of apple pie in your veins ! And we'll be here after Joe's 15 minutes of fame....12 more minutes."

John Stewart : "12 more minutes ?"

John Oliver : 'Yes , John...because after his 15 minutes of fame , the next 12 will be tearing his life apart !" (clips of media finding out truth about Joe !)
thats not how it went!!!

[the4thpip]

Obama: Last son of Krypton?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7675927.stm

[Charles RB]

And now McCain supporters have taken to attacking reporters at McCain's speeches: http://blog.news-record.com/staff/capblog/archives/2008/10/report_from_pal.shtml

I'm sure that'll ensure your candidate gets favourable coverage, guys...


http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2008/10-16/racist16_400.jpg

Oh fucking HELL.

[Crowley]

Letterman slapped McCain around some more:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/17/mccain_letterman_make_amends.html

[the4thpip]

Since September, McCain has lost ground on nearly every quality tested in the poll, including lower scores for being likable, decisive, honest, competent, intelligent and inspiring.

He's also lost ground for understanding ordinary peoples' problems, caring about "people like you" and improving America's international standing. Growing numbers even see him as supporting big business over the public interest and being influenced by lobbyists — despite repeated vows to do exactly the opposite.

Obama's ratings have stayed level since last month for most qualities tested, though he has shown some improvement in whether he's considered experienced and decisive.

http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-souring-on-mccain

[K-DoG7p7]

Kenya seeks big airport for Obama (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7674202.stm)

[the4thpip]

Salon.com's war room is looking at the possibility of a real Dem majority in the Senate:

We know Virginia's Mark Warner and the Udall cousins in New Mexico and Colorado look pretty solid. Let's speculate further that Jean Shaheen holds off John Sununu in New Hampshire, Jeff Merkley defeats Gordon Smith in Oregon, Alaska's scandal-plagued Ted Stevens cannot save himself from Mark Begich, and Al Franken can finish his late-campaign run against Minnesota's Norm Coleman. And then, riding Barack Obama's coattails, Kay Hagan upends Liddy Dole in North Carolina.

That would mean eight new Democratic senators, giving Harry Reid 59 seats. (Including that Connecticut guy whose name we dare not speak, of course.) Where might a 60th, filibuster-proof senator come from?

How about Nebraska?

After he beat Republican Mike Johanns, the former Bush agriculture secretary, in a cow-milking contest last August, I blogged about the Democratic candidate, Nebraska Rep. Scott Kleeb. All good fun, but the actual Senate contest itself was one nobody outside the Kleeb campaign had on his or her competitive-race radar.

But now, with just three weeks to go, Johanns finds himself in a bit of a stew. It's not Stevens-level trouble, but the long and short of it is that Johanns apparently traveled in 2006 on taxpayer dollars to do the electoral bidding of Republican House candidates. That's a no-no.

[EdContradictory]

No way. I'd rather not have a 60 person majority than give Lieberman even more power than he has now.

59 and kick him out of the caucus. He deserves it.

[Typo Lad]

Lieberman votes Democrat on just about every issue anyway.

[Infra-Man]

And now people at McCain/Palin rallies are roughing up the press.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Beat_the_press.html?showall?39486

Beat the press
The McCain campaign, today unhappy about the attention Joe the plumber is getting, has been running against the press off and on for a while, and the hostility from some supporters to the press does seem to be getting more intense.

As usual, anecdotes are just that. But this one, from a reporter working on a piece for the Greensboro News-Record, stands out. He writes that he wandered to the back of a Palin event to talk to some protesters:


I sidled up to one of the Obama supporters and asked why they were there, what they were trying to accomplish.

As he was telling me a large, bearded man in full McCain-Palin campaign regalia got in his face to yell at him.

“Hey, hey,” I said. “I’m trying to interview him. Just a minute, okay?”

The man began to say something about how of course I was interviewing the Obama people when suddenly, from behind us, the sound of a pro-Obama rap song came blaring out of the windows of a dorm building. We all turned our heads to see Obama signs in the windows.

This was met with curses, screams and chants of “U.S.A” by McCain-Palin folks who crowded under the windows trying to drown it out and yell at the person playing the stereo.

It was a moment of levity in an otherwise very tense situation and so I let out a gentle chuckle and shook my head.

“Oh, you think that’s funny?!” the large bearded man said. His face was turning red. “Yeah, that’s real funny…” he said.

And then he kicked the back of my leg, buckling my right knee and sending me sprawling onto the ground.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And now people at McCain/Palin rallies are roughing up the press.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Beat_the_press.html?showall?39486


Its a very angry rage filled party at the moment. Its playing up to hate pure and simple. And its sad that some can't see it. McCain should know better how his followers are acting. Instead,.....he doesn't.

[KevinTBrown]

And now people at McCain/Palin rallies are roughing up the press.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Beat_the_press.html?showall?39486

Hmmmmm, deja vu.

And now McCain supporters have taken to attacking reporters at McCain's speeches: http://blog.news-record.com/staff/capblog/archives/2008/10/report_from_pal.shtml

:biggrin:

[Infra-Man]

Hmmmmm, deja vu.



:biggrin:

Ahh, missed that completely.

To atone...

A certain Polk High football hero is stumping for Obama (four touchdowns, one game!).

http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/election2008/2008/10/al-bundy-stumps.html

Yes, Al Bundy stumps for Obama.

Whaooooo-bama!

[AllisterH]

I must admit, I find it interesting that so many here actually trust the government to run their health but NOT their privacy....

[Black Atom]

I must admit, I find it interesting that so many here actually trust the government to run their health but NOT their privacy....

Who said they wanted government to "run" their healthcare?

[TomStillwell]

The Chicago Tribune has endorsed Obama. They've never endorsed a Democrat before.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-chicago-tribune-endorsement,0,1371034.story


This is especially meaningful since the Tribune is a conservative, Right leaning newspaper, and they've followed Obama closely for all of his political career. No media outlet knows Obama better.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Ahh, missed that completely.

To atone...

A certain Polk High football hero is stumping for Obama (four touchdowns, one game!).

http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/election2008/2008/10/al-bundy-stumps.html

Yes, Al Bundy stumps for Obama.

Whaooooo-bama!

It is now complete...Obama is the man who will unite the Nation with pure cool. By doing Superman jokes and getting Al Bundy to help you. Its that damn awesome.

The Chicago Tribune has endorsed Obama. They've never endorsed a Democrat before.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-chicago-tribune-endorsement,0,1371034.story


This is especially meaningful since the Tribune is a conservative, Right leaning newspaper, and they've followed Obama closely for all of his political career. No media outlet knows Obama better.


Isn't it wild that a lot of big name conservatives are all going Obama in 2008 ? I never expected it but really....McCain has fucked his campaign completely.

[TomStillwell]

Isn't it wild that a lot of big name conservatives are all going Obama in 2008 ? I never expected it but really....McCain has fucked his campaign completely.

I think you're missing the point of the endorsement. They aren't endorsing Not McCain. They are endorsing Barack Obama.

[TomStillwell]

Another conservative endorsement...

On his talk show on WPHT today, conservative Philadelphian Michael Smerconish endorsed Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

Smerconish did so by reading a couple paragraphs from his pending op-ed in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

"I've decided," he said. "My conclusion comes after reading the candidates' memoirs and campaign platforms, attending both party conventions, interviewing both men multiple times, and watching all primary and general election debates.

"John McCain is an honorable man who has served his country well. But he will not get my vote. For the first time since registering as a Republican 28 years ago, I'm voting for a Democrat for president.

"I may have been an appointee in the George H.W. Bush administration, and master of ceremonies for George W. Bush in 2004, but last Saturday I stood amidst the crowd at an Obama event in North Philadelphia," says the Republican.

[Buzz Dixon]

They call us Obamacons.

[Tobias March]

They call us Obamacons.

I'll update my dictionary :smile:

[Tobias March]

Hmmm (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/18/uselections2008-barackobama)

Powell's about to weigh in?

Though this was my favourite line:

"I do love the Waldorf Astoria. I hear that from the doorstep you can see all the way to the Russian Tearoom." - Barack Obama

[Royal]

Democrats can be nasty too! (http://mmapayout.com/2008/10/lindlands-mma-career-being-used-against-him-in-political-race/)

They're just weaker at it.

I wonder if VanOrmann got rights to the footage.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

The gap in the polls is shrinking again.

Damn those pesky undecided voters!

Looking forward to Palin on SNL.

[FalconX2000]

They call us Obamacons.

Obamacans, I think.

There's been speculation again about Powell endorsing Obama because he's preparing for an interview on Meet the Press.

[KevinTBrown]

The gap in the polls is shrinking again.

Damn those pesky undecided voters!

Looking forward to Palin on SNL.


Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint...

Only shenanigans by the RNC or McCain himself can have him winning.

This is how fivethirtyeight.com sees it:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ov-pT1x-W8Y/SPkJOGLFNHI/AAAAAAAADBI/Sesw43iSD-E/S1600-R/1017_mainchart.png

They've been incredibly accurate.

[LtMarvel]

The Rachel Maddow Show stated that Obama is asking the special prosecuter to look into a McCain/Bush connection to voter suppresion. Remeber, voter suppression was a major goal of the firing of the US attorneys.

[Tetsuo_man]

They call us Obamacons.

Does that make us like decepticons or something?

[KevinTBrown]

The Rachel Maddow Show stated that Obama is asking the special prosecuter to look into a McCain/Bush connection to voter suppresion. Remeber, voter suppression was a major goal of the firing of the US attorneys.

US Supreme Court has already shot down one Republican battle in OH.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/237546,supreme-court-denies-republican-request-in-ohio-voting-dispute.html

Score one for the good guys.

I strongly suspect that the Supreme Court is going to shoot down a lot of these.

[LtMarvel]

Because I love everyone on this board, I give you a NSFW endorsement from the cheerleader from Heroes (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d).

[GozertheGozarian]

Because I love everyone on this board, I give you a NSFW endorsement from the cheerleader from Heroes (http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d).
She kept my attention for 1 second.

[Lester C.]

US Supreme Court has already shot down one Republican battle in OH.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/237546,supreme-court-denies-republican-request-in-ohio-voting-dispute.html

Score one for the good guys.

I strongly suspect that the Supreme Court is going to shoot down a lot of these.

That shocked me given the conservative majority.

[Buzz Dixon]

That shocked me given the conservative majority.The thing is, they're probably truer conservatives than the current GOP crop...

[the4thpip]

The gap in the polls is shrinking again.

Damn those pesky undecided voters!

Looking forward to Palin on SNL.

The gap in some polls is shrinking. It is staying the same in others, and widening in a few, too.
The Early Line: Diageo/Hotline Tracking Poll

Obama/Biden 50%
McCain/Palin 40%
Undec 7%

- Obama's 10% lead in today's Diageo/Hotline release equals his largest advantage ever in the tracking poll. The Dem nominee also led 50-40% in the poll completed 10/10.

- Obama now leads 50-37% on who would do the best job handling the economy, the fifth consecutive day he has led the issue by double digits. 66% of LVs and 67% of Indies believe the economy is the most important issue facing the U.S.

- The candidates meanwhile remain basically deadlocked on energy issues. 43% think Obama would do the best job managing U.S. energy policies, while 42% say McCain. Neither candidate has had a statistically significant lead on energy since the survey completed 10/10.

Today's Diageo/Hotline tracking poll, conducted 10/14-16 by FD, surveyed 804 LVs and has a margin of error of +/- 3.5%. Party ID Breakdown for the sample is 41%D, 36%R, 18%I.


If you look at the graph here (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html), you won't see much of a tightening on the average of all polls at all.

[the4thpip]

Democrats can be nasty too! (http://mmapayout.com/2008/10/lindlands-mma-career-being-used-against-him-in-political-race/)

They're just weaker at it.

I wonder if VanOrmann got rights to the footage.

Am I getting that right?
They have a professional wrestler running against a Sally Jessy Raphael lookalike in that race? How awesome is that?

[the4thpip]

Am I the only one who thinks Joe Wurzelbacher looks a lot like Jeff Gannon?
I think there must be a republican plant clone lab somewhere in Wyoming where they grow these guys in test tubes.

[BnL]

Am I getting that right?
They have a professional wrestler running against a Sally Jessy Raphael lookalike in that race? How awesome is that?

Mixed martial arts is different than wrestling. They actually punch each other, occasionally drawing blood and breaking bones, and it's a real competition, not choreographed and predetermined. It's more comparable to boxing than pro wrestling.

[the4thpip]

Mixed martial arts is different than wrestling. They actually punch each other, occasionally drawing blood and breaking bones, and it's a real competition, not choreographed and predetermined. It's more comparable to boxing than pro wrestling.

Oh right. A guy I studied psychology with does MMA.

This is him: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=jvyurkfEmQk

We kind of chose different careers after college. :eek:

[FalconX2000]

Does that make us like decepticons or something?

You're all Black Arachnias.:smile:

[BnL]

Oh right. A guy I studied psychology with does MMA.

This is him: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=jvyurkfEmQk

We kind of chose different careers after college. :eek:

It's never too early in the morning for a little homoeroticism, I always say.

He's pretty handsome.

[AllisterH]

Lieberman votes Democrat on just about every issue anyway.

Lieberman is basically Chuck Hagel in reverse. Hagel is a socially conservative with strong libertarian overtones (yet many thought he was actually a valid choice for Obama VP) however, because of one issue, people tend to forget the rest of his voting stance.

re: Republican party
It should prove interesting to see how the Republicans recover. BUSH really screwed over the republicans and now the RNC is left to clean up the mess. As an aside, was there any "obama" type speaker at the convention that might be a decent chance in '12?

re: Obama presidency
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, there was/is a decent chance Obama might have a filibuster-proof congress to work with. This is perhaps the best chance ever for Americans to get a healthcare system.

[the4thpip]

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/batmobama-robiden.jpg

[AllisterH]

Heh

I also wonder how an Obama presidency will affect comics. I suspect that many writers liked having Bush in the white house as it provided a convenient bogey-man....

Will writers be as critical of the government if their candidate is in?

[Royal]

Am I getting that right?
They have a professional wrestler running against a Sally Jessy Raphael lookalike in that race? How awesome is that?

Eh. Mixed Martial Arts. Matt Lindland is an Olympic Silver Medalist in Freestyle Wrestling and a former UFC Middleweight champ. Hell of an essayist as well.

Her facts are all schewed, but this is pretty much a scare ad. Little research would clear it all up.

[Royal]

Oh right. A guy I studied psychology with does MMA.

This is him: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=jvyurkfEmQk

We kind of chose different careers after college. :eek:

Wow! Didn't know you knew Baron.

[KevinTBrown]

Heh

I also wonder how an Obama presidency will affect comics. I suspect that many writers liked having Bush in the white house as it provided a convenient bogey-man....

Will writers be as critical of the government if their candidate is in?

They can just create a fictional President is all. Not a biggie.

[KevinTBrown]

So, who knew that the Onion of all papers had the ability to see into the future accurately?

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784

It may have been intended to be a joke, but that's downright scary! :eek:

[AllisterH]

So, who knew that the Onion of all papers had the ability to see into the future accurately?

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784

It may have been intended to be a joke, but that's downright scary! :eek:

I was reading that....

Was this REALLY what they had written back in '01? No freaking way, this is so scary....Seriously, Clinton actually thought the debt could be paid off in 2012 if Gore had been elected?

WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU AMERICANS THINKING!!!!!

I keep saying this but it needs to be repeated, BUSH makes even Nixon look good...

EDIT: writers and the presidency
Not so sure though...In Marvel though, the president has generally been the guy in real life so having Bush as president was EASY for the writers...

I wonder what Hudlin would make of the Obama presidency and his, shall we say, "America is the evil"...

[the4thpip]

Wow! Didn't know you knew Baron.

I graduated 12 years ago and did not have much to do with him back then (clearly, I had no idea what he looked like under his clothes or I would have gotten to know him much better!!).
Is he a name in that sport then? He runs a martial arts school in my neighborhood these days.

[Infra-Man]

So, who knew that the Onion of all papers had the ability to see into the future accurately?

There's also this example of Onion prophecy:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33930

[Royal]

I graduated 12 years ago and did not have much to do with him back then (clearly, I had no idea what he looked like under his clothes or I would have gotten to know him much better!!).
Is he a name in that sport then? He runs a martial arts school in my neighborhood these days.

He isn't Pro (yet), but he's a big prospect in Europe.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Lieberman is basically Chuck Hagel in reverse. Hagel is a socially conservative with strong libertarian overtones (yet many thought he was actually a valid choice for Obama VP) however, because of one issue, people tend to forget the rest of his voting stance.

re: Republican party
It should prove interesting to see how the Republicans recover. BUSH really screwed over the republicans and now the RNC is left to clean up the mess. As an aside, was there any "obama" type speaker at the convention that might be a decent chance in '12?

re: Obama presidency
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, there was/is a decent chance Obama might have a filibuster-proof congress to work with. This is perhaps the best chance ever for Americans to get a healthcare system.

I think after another couple of years experince....Mike Huckabee will get the nod. The thing you heard about Huckabee was "Well he's a funny , sweet guy ...but he doesn't have the experince a McCain has..."

And the party thought Hillary would be running and if Huck won , he'd be in the position where he had little experince. I'll say it now.... had Mike Huckabee won , the race would be a lot tighter . Huckabee could argue he's a real outsider , he's young and ready and has as much experince as Obama !

I could see Huckabee winning in 2012 and getting the Republican nod.

[Buzz Dixon]

I think after another couple of years experince....Mike Huckabee will get the nod. The thing you heard about Huckabee was "Well he's a funny , sweet guy ...but he doesn't have the experince a McCain has..."

And the party thought Hillary would be running and if Huck won , he'd be in the position where he had little experince. I'll say it now.... had Mike Huckabee won , the race would be a lot tighter . Huckabee could argue he's a real outsider , he's young and ready and has as much experince as Obama !

I could see Huckabee winning in 2012 and getting the Republican nod.Huckabee is a funny, sweet guy and just marginally better than Palin. If anybody is going to have a strong run for the GOP nod in 2012 it will be her; she's the only GOP candidate to have energized the base to any degree.

Methinks the GOP needs to spend some time in the wilderness. They need to concentrate more on state races and forget about the presidency until at least 2016.

If the economy remains bad, there's a very real possibility the country will believe they haven't been punished enough and will drive even more of 'em out of office in 2010.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Huckabee is a funny, sweet guy and just marginally better than Palin. If anybody is going to have a strong run for the GOP nod in 2012 it will be her; she's the only GOP candidate to have energized the base to any degree.

Methinks the GOP needs to spend some time in the wilderness. They need to concentrate more on state races and forget about the presidency until at least 2016.

If the economy remains bad, there's a very real possibility the country will believe they haven't been punished enough and will drive even more of 'em out of office in 2010.

I can see Palin taking knocks on her lack of really knowing anything. It would be a hell of a gamble to make her the main person in a race in 2012. And with the fact many have images of her being a moron , its not gonna help her.

Huck (ill shorten it since it sounds cooler) knows how to work the press. He's someone who can make interviews work for himself and knows exactly what to say . I don't agree at all with Hucks views on anything really. But he has a presence that Palin doesn't at the moment.

[FalconX2000]

So, who knew that the Onion of all papers had the ability to see into the future accurately?

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28784

It may have been intended to be a joke, but that's downright scary! :eek:

There's also this example of Onion prophecy:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33930

Wow. They ought to march to the White House with a crystal ball.

[AllisterH]

I can see Palin taking knocks on her lack of really knowing anything. It would be a hell of a gamble to make her the main person in a race in 2012. And with the fact many have images of her being a moron , its not gonna help her.
.

I think Huckabee might be a viable choice but I wouldn't count Palin out. 4 years can make a big difference and trying to use what she was in '08 against her in '12 would be extremely foolish...

As an aside, I wonder how much of a stink Hagel is going to make on domestic policies? He was super-critical on Bush but will he be as such on Obama when it comes to non-foreign affairs?

[FalconX2000]

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8575/obamaadspendingub2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Houston, we have lift off.

[AllisterH]

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8575/obamaadspendingub2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Houston, we have lift off.

Um, weren't many on the left decrying the fact that elections were all about the money before Obama?

I still say the best "restriction" on campaign financing was I think from a poster on the main board back in 2006 that said.

"For every dollar Candidate A spends, Candidate B must be provided a dollar".

[FalconX2000]

Um, weren't many on the left decrying the fact that elections were all about the money before Obama?

I still say the best "restriction" on campaign financing was I think from a poster on the main board back in 2006 that said.

"For every dollar Candidate A spends, Candidate B must be provided a dollar".

I haven't been paying close attention to politics for that long.

And if the U.S. could ban 527s entirely from doing ads, and had slightly stricter libel and slander laws, there'd be little excuse not to take public financing.

Obama knew he'd get the money, and I would have made the same decision in his place.

[mattx110]

Um, weren't many on the left decrying the fact that elections were all about the money before Obama?

I still say the best "restriction" on campaign financing was I think from a poster on the main board back in 2006 that said.

"For every dollar Candidate A spends, Candidate B must be provided a dollar".
From whom?

That's ridiculous. There's definitely a better way to control campaign spending.

[AllisterH]

From whom?

That's ridiculous. There's definitely a better way to control campaign spending.

Obviously the government....Basically, there's a limit to how much a campaign OR its "supporters" could spend. True, keeping the supporter ADs in check would be damn hard...

[the4thpip]

Um, weren't many on the left decrying the fact that elections were all about the money before Obama?

I still say the best "restriction" on campaign financing was I think from a poster on the main board back in 2006 that said.

"For every dollar Candidate A spends, Candidate B must be provided a dollar".

The difference is that Republican candidates used to be the ones that had lots more money, and it mostly came from corporate donors (lobbying money). Obama's money comes mostly from private citizens, who donated in unprecedented numbers.

[kingdom2000]

Something I seriousily doubt will be repeated. I expect by the next election things will return to a corporate backed republican party rolling in dough.

[mattx110]

Obviously the government....Basically, there's a limit to how much a campaign OR its "supporters" could spend. True, keeping the supporter ADs in check would be damn hard...
A limit isn't the government handing 20 million bucks to McCain to do with as he sees fit.

[KevinTBrown]

Analysis of the ACORN controversy. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081018/ap_on_el_ge/fraud_or_foolishness)


In the end, IMO, it'll be much ado about nothing because Obama's campaign is on top of it and will not allow the Pubs to steal this election.

[kingdom2000]

According to Rep. Michelle Bachman, liberal = un-american.
video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdA52S4Dbg&eurl=http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michelle-bachmann-gives-voice-rights)

From CrooksandLiars (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michelle-bachmann-gives-voice-rights)

She is up for re-election, hopefully her opponent can make use of a rep that accuses anyone not toeing the republican line as hating american to her advantage.

Right after the break, Katrina Vandenheuvel said precisely what needed to be said -- and with more passion than I've ever witnessed from her on TV:

Chris, I fear for my country. I think what we just heard is a congresswoman channeling Joe McCarthy, channeling a politics of fear and loathing and demonization and division and distraction. Not a single issue mentioned. This is a politics at a moment of extreme economic pain in this country that is incendiary, that is so debased, that I'm almost having a hard time breathing, because I think it's very scary. Because this is a country I love, and this woman had no sense of the history of this nation, which is one of struggle, of trying to fulfill the great ideals of this nation, of movements that have brought about the civilizing advances of this country, and she doesn't even know who Saul Alinsky is -- a community organizer who channeled the views of the people from below.

I think Barack Obama is going to win, and he's going to have a lot of work because there is an extremism unleashed in this nation which you just heard on this program, which could lead to violence, and hatred, and toxicity. And against the backdrop of the Great Depression we're living through, it could lead -- and I don't use this word lightly -- to a kind of American fascism, which is against the great values of this nation, and which people like that are fomenting.

Even Pat Buchanan was shaking his head, grimly acknowledging that he doubted that any member of Congress could be called anti-American.


- On one hand I like how backed into the corner the GOP is. On the other the way they are agressivily hitting up the old fear and hate stick is a bit frightening. All they even capable of spreading a message that doesn't involved fear and hate anymore? When was the last time the GOP didn't have fear and hate as central to their message? The 1920s? 1800s? I am betting its been a long long time.

[Alix Harrower]

According to Rep. Michelle Bachman, liberal = un-american.
video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdA52S4Dbg&eurl=http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michelle-bachmann-gives-voice-rights)

From CrooksandLiars (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michelle-bachmann-gives-voice-rights)

She is up for re-election, hopefully her opponent can make use of a rep that accuses anyone not toeing the republican line as hating american to her advantage.

Right after the break, Katrina Vandenheuvel said precisely what needed to be said -- and with more passion than I've ever witnessed from her on TV:

Chris, I fear for my country. I think what we just heard is a congresswoman channeling Joe McCarthy, channeling a politics of fear and loathing and demonization and division and distraction. Not a single issue mentioned. This is a politics at a moment of extreme economic pain in this country that is incendiary, that is so debased, that I'm almost having a hard time breathing, because I think it's very scary. Because this is a country I love, and this woman had no sense of the history of this nation, which is one of struggle, of trying to fulfill the great ideals of this nation, of movements that have brought about the civilizing advances of this country, and she doesn't even know who Saul Alinsky is -- a community organizer who channeled the views of the people from below.

I think Barack Obama is going to win, and he's going to have a lot of work because there is an extremism unleashed in this nation which you just heard on this program, which could lead to violence, and hatred, and toxicity. And against the backdrop of the Great Depression we're living through, it could lead -- and I don't use this word lightly -- to a kind of American fascism, which is against the great values of this nation, and which people like that are fomenting.

Even Pat Buchanan was shaking his head, grimly acknowledging that he doubted that any member of Congress could be called anti-American.


- On one hand I like how backed into the corner the GOP is. On the other the way they are agressivily hitting up the old fear and hate stick is a bit frightening. All they even capable of spreading a message that doesn't involved fear and hate anymore? When was the last time the GOP didn't have fear and hate as central to their message? The 1920s? 1800s? I am betting its been a long long time.

Bachmann's opponent, El Tinklenberg, has raised $200,000 and counting since her tantrum last night: http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/18660 .

[K-DoG7p7]

http://www.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2008/10/18/1224364919912_310.jpg


Wow.. I would hate to have to speak in front of 100.000 people obama got some NUTS

[Alexx1]

^^^That's amazing to see and the diversity there as well. WoW!

[mattx110]

I wouldn't even have the balls to photoshop something like that to pretend I spoke to that kind of crowd.

[FalconX2000]

The difference is that Republican candidates used to be the ones that had lots more money, and it mostly came from corporate donors (lobbying money). Obama's money comes mostly from private citizens, who donated in unprecedented numbers.

"Mostly" is misleading. Obama has raised more money from small donors than ever before and they certainly have a bigger stake in his campaign than such donors have had in any other in memory, but big donors still make up the majority of his money.

[Corrina]

I wouldn't even have the balls to photoshop something like that to pretend I spoke to that kind of crowd.

And my thought every time I see Obama in a crowd like that is to worry that someone in there has a gun.

I hope that's one worry that never comes true.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And my thought every time I see Obama in a crowd like that is to worry that someone in there has a gun.

I hope that's one worry that never comes true.

Well this may set you at ease some....because I read this on CNN or AOL News. In it they had a detailed artcle detailing that racism is having the effect not many expected. In fact the article from some interviewed in Kentucky and WV have said even though they don't want their kids with a black man or woman , they care more about their ability to make a living now and put food on the table.

One woman said it best in that interview from WV : "Do I want my daughter with a black man ? No....do I want to be able to live and have someone who can run the country , yes . Thats why I'll vote Barack Obama."

The article goes on to detail that due to John McCain making a new villain (Arabian people) in this election and screaming TERRORIST over and over...people do not fear black people as much . And its helped Obama more than anything since these type of people have a bigger fear for them to play on.

Plus some view Obama as the lesser of 2 evils. They think about how the economy has went to hell , and McCain and the Republicans sit and watched it for 8 years go this way....they view Obama as an outsider more who could help.

The article stressed that even those racist care more about themselves and the fact they wanna be able to work and support their families. And that they feel even though Obama is black , they'll vote for him.

[FalconX2000]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27252443#27252443

Oil prices are falling due to the fears on Wall Street. It dipped below $3 for the first time in many months.

OPEC has decided to hold a summit in Vienna hoping to cut production and keep prices from falling any further.

Besides giving OPEC the finger, their actions are a prime example of how rallying international support can get nations what they want. It showcases the strength of Obama's approach to diplomacy and foreign policy.

[TomStillwell]

Bachmann's opponent, El Tinklenberg, has raised $200,000 and counting since her tantrum last night: http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/18660 .

Now it's up to $500,000.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27252443#27252443

Oil prices are falling due to the fears on Wall Street. It dipped below $3 for the first time in many months.

OPEC has decided to hold a summit in Vienna hoping to cut production and keep prices from falling any further.

Besides giving OPEC the finger, their actions are a prime example of how rallying international support can get nations what they want. It showcases the strength of Obama's approach to diplomacy and foreign policy.

Lets be honest... a lot of oil companies maybe scared shitless due to Obama claiming he's gonna tax them heavily for profits they make. The honeymoon maybe over for the oil companies.

[LtMarvel]

http://www.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2008/10/18/1224364919912_310.jpg


Wow.. I would hate to have to speak in front of 100.000 people obama got some NUTS
That courthouse with the columns in the background is where the Dred Scott decision was made.

What a difference 150 years makes!

[Lester C.]

I'm not trying to build my hopes up here, but when you have conservatives like Buzz endorsing Obama over McCain it's hard not to get excited.

[FalconX2000]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/campaign-2008/story/732102.html

McCain used words like ''welfare'' and ''socialism'' to describe Obama's plans to raise taxes on businesses and Americans earning more than $250,000 and redistribute that in the form of cuts and credits to 95 percent of working families.

''Since you can't reduce taxes on those who pay zero, the government will write them all checks called a tax credit,'' McCain told a crowd estimated at 7,000 people in Concord, N.C.. ``And the Treasury will cover those checks by taxing other people.''

Wait, what?! Pinch me. Did McCain just say that the people Obama wants to give a tax credit too are not paying any taxes?

[Paul McEnery]

*pouring cold water*

Sure, putting a black man in the white house sets at least one thing in America straight.

But he's still a center right politician, and he's still not going to give us the FDR styled changes we need right now.

I mean, I'll be delighted if he does, but I don't expect it.

Still more work to be done.

[Paul McEnery]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/campaign-2008/story/732102.html



Wait, what?! Pinch me. Did McCain just say that the people Obama wants to give a tax credit too are not paying any taxes?

Possibly.

I believe what that utter cunt just said is "how dare those working people expect the rich to lay down a dime on behalf of the country; tax the poor!"

Because that's what he said in the debate.

[Corrina]

Well this may set you at ease some....because I read this on CNN or AOL News. In it they had a detailed artcle detailing that racism is having the effect not many expected. In fact the article from some interviewed in Kentucky and WV have said even though they don't want their kids with a black man or woman , they care more about their ability to make a living now and put food on the table.

Somewhat good news, I guess. (Well, he's an exceptional black man, not like the others, and I'm in trouble so I'll vote for him over the crazy white guy).

This is what I'm worried about: Joe the Plumber had no trouble getting close to Obama. What if the next 'constituent' has a gun? (Or did the Secret Service check out Joe before they let him get close?)

[Alexx1]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/obama.fundraising/index.html

For all the McCain/Palin rhetoric and the ignorance you see from certain individuals opposed to having Obama President simply because of the color of his skin, this right here let's me know that so many more are determined to doing what ever they can to help ensure that Obama gets into the White House!

Besides now I see how Obama can pay for that 18 minute time slot on Oct. 29 on the major news stations which I think is just brilliant and perhaps Obama's second smartest move behind choosing Biden as he's running mate and I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say to the America people! The fact that Obama's able to do this has to eat at McCain :biggrin:

[KevinTBrown]

Not a surpirse, but Colin Powell endorses Obama. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081019/ap_on_el_pr/powell)

[Alexx1]

Not a surpirse, but Colin Powell endorses Obama. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081019/ap_on_el_pr/powell)

That's a huge endorsement for Obama. I had intended to watch Meet The Press but got side tracked earlier!

Here's CNN's coverage on the endorsement:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/colin.powell/index.html

[the4thpip]

Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama

How's this for some virtuoso news-cycle stage management? First the Obama campaign announces that the campaign raised a stunning $150 million in September. Then Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama on "Meet the Press."

"Because he has met the standard of being an exceptional president...a transformational candidate...I will be voting for Barack Obama..."


Clip here: http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/19/colin_powell_endorsement/index.html

Edit: too slow!

[Matt Doc Martin]

Not a surpirse, but Colin Powell endorses Obama. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081019/ap_on_el_pr/powell)

That is fantastic news. I have tremendous respect for Colin Powell.

[TomStillwell]

The Obama campaign states that they raised 150 million dollars in September. His previous record was 66 million.

[Berserk]

The Obama campaign states that they raised 150 million dollars in September. His previous record was 66 million.



I think most of that is because Democrats were scared by how the Sarah Palin pick brought out the Republican base and gave McCain a lead in the polls.

[Infra-Man]

I think most of that is because Democrats were scared by how the Sarah Palin pick brought out the Republican base and gave McCain a lead in the polls.

As it turned out, they had nothing to fear but fear itself (or, you know, the idea of a grossly underqualified person being a 72-year-old cancer survivor's heartbeat away from the presidency).

As for the Powell/Obama revelation, that's awesome. Can't wait for the conservative spin.

[Berserk]

As it turned out, they had nothing to fear but fear itself (or, you know, the idea of a grossly underqualified person being a 72-year-old cancer survivor's heartbeat away from the presidency).

As for the Powell/Obama revelation, that's awesome. Can't wait for the conservative spin.



While I welcome it, I don't think the Powell endorsement will make much of a difference. For one thing, Colin Powell betrayed George W. Bush, so I don't think that Republican voters respect him anymore. So, while it would give Obama some more credibility, I don't think it would give him any more voters. Plus, many Republican voters will probably think that Powell endorsed Obama just because they're both Black.

[Infra-Man]

While I welcome it, I don't think the Powell endorsement will make much of a difference. For one thing, Colin Powell betrayed George W. Bush, so I don't think that Republican voters respect him anymore. So, while it would give Obama some more credibility, I don't think it would give him any more voters. Plus, many Republican voters will probably think that Powell endorsed Obama just because they're both Black.

I agree to some extent, but I think the endorsement shows (independent of race) that many conservatives and Republicans appear to have ditched or have had severe problems with the McCain ticket recently. It'd be interesting if that became the focus of the ensuing news stories.

[DungeonmasterJim]

While I welcome it, I don't think the Powell endorsement will make much of a difference. For one thing, Colin Powell betrayed George W. Bush, so I don't think that Republican voters respect him anymore. So, while it would give Obama some more credibility, I don't think it would give him any more voters. Plus, many Republican voters will probably think that Powell endorsed Obama just because they're both Black.

I'm glad I'm an independant. As far as I'm concerned Powell was totally used by the Bush administration to sacrifice his reputation of an upstanding and trustworthy spokesman while being completely mis-lead by the administration to make pro-war arguments for invading Iraq.

DM Jim

[Briareos]

I agree to some extent, but I think the endorsement shows (independent of race) that many conservatives and Republicans appear to have ditched or have had severe problems with the McCain ticket recently. It'd be interesting if that became the focus of the ensuing news stories.

Powell was never a conservative...

[Briareos]

Since Obama broke his promise to use public funds in his campaign (Which would have forced a spending limit on him) then why should we believe any other promise he gives?

[the4thpip]

"Mostly" is misleading. Obama has raised more money from small donors than ever before and they certainly have a bigger stake in his campaign than such donors have had in any other in memory, but big donors still make up the majority of his money.

Do you have a source for that?
This article (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/20/america/20obama.php) seems to indicate that an actual majority of the donations comes from private donors.

[AllisterH]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/campaign-2008/story/732102.html



Wait, what?! Pinch me. Did McCain just say that the people Obama wants to give a tax credit too are not paying any taxes?

Um, you do realize McCain's right?

Obama's tax credit/idea (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html)is shall we say dodgy....I was under the impression that everyone in the thread that supported Obama KNEW this already :confused:

Remember, the 95% of Americans will pay less taxes is not exactly true since roughly a 1/3 of Americans don't pay taxes to begin with.

[Infra-Man]

Powell was never a conservative...

"I agree to some extent, but I think the endorsement shows (independent of race) that many conservatives and Republicans appear to have ditched or have had severe problems with the McCain ticket recently."

That's why included the word "Republicans" in the post you quoted.

[Infra-Man]

Since Obama broke his promise to use public funds in his campaign (Which would have forced a spending limit on him) then why should we believe any other promise he gives?

Sine McCain broke his promise to run a positive campaign why should we believe any other promise he gives?

[FalconX2000]

Um, you do realize McCain's right?

Obama's tax credit/idea (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html)is shall we say dodgy....I was under the impression that everyone in the thread that supported Obama KNEW this already :confused:

Remember, the 95% of Americans will pay less taxes is not exactly true since roughly a 1/3 of Americans don't pay taxes to begin with.

Aren't there plenty of taxes besides the income tax? You know, consumption tax, sales tax, property tax...

Do you have a source for that?
This article (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/20/america/20obama.php) seems to indicate that an actual majority of the donations comes from private donors.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/was_obama_correct_to_say_90_of.html

Percentage of transactions does not equal percentage of total money.

Obama gets lots of small donations. Those small donations make up a large percentage of the total transactions in his favour, but a significantly smaller percentage of the total amount of money flowing into Obama.

The majority of Obama's money comes from big donations of $200 of more, though we of course don't know how rich the big money donors were.

[AllisterH]

Aren't there plenty of taxes besides the income tax? You know, consumption tax, sales tax, property tax...

.

Quite true, but that's NOT what either Obama or McCain are talking about when they talk about their "TAX plan". Mainly because those OTHER taxes are NOT controlled by the federal government and they can't do bupkiss about it.

Again, McCain is right (on an actual issue, wonders of wonders. His campaign really should've focused more on the issues and he would be doing better). Obama is using "tax refunds" as a way to make it so that it looks like he's doing a tax cut.

Smart choice in changing the language on Obama's part....that said, I'm almost positive Paul talked about this in the thread already and nobody batted an eye.

[FalconX2000]

Quite true, but that's NOT what either Obama or McCain are talking about when they talk about their "TAX plan". Mainly because those OTHER taxes are NOT controlled by the federal government and they can't do bupkiss about it.

Again, McCain is right (on an actual issue, wonders of wonders. His campaign really should've focused more on the issues and he would be doing better). Obama is using "tax refunds" as a way to make it so that it looks like he's doing a tax cut.

Smart choice in changing the language on Obama's part....that said, I'm almost positive Paul talked about this in the thread already and nobody batted an eye.

I guess that's one of those disconnects that comes from living on an island nation. We're smaller than New York City. The central government collects all the taxes.

Wow...then the best I could possibly spin that is "extended stimulus package". lol.

[AllisterH]

You know, we have talked a lot about Palin, McCain and Obama, but what about Biden?

It used to be that the vice-president position was a do-nothing position. Basically, you were, if you were lucky, the tie-breaking vote in the Senate but that has changed.

Al Gore, apparently, wielded a lot more power and any of the Clinton environment initatives can be laid down at Gore's feet. Bill basically said "you run the environment" and Al Gore took the ball.

Similarly, nobody doubts that Cheney has had a big influence on Bush policies and it seems like the Vice-president positon is no longer a do-nothing position.

THIS, though is what has me slightly concerned about Biden. Biden, more than any other senator, is the most hated senator among net-policy watchers. There hasn't been a RIAA bill that Joe hasn't championed and frankly, when Cnet has Biden as the "lowest ranked senator on net-policy", I do the Spockbrow.

How much will Biden screw us over on the net? (google Biden & RIAA and watch the lamentations of grief from many when Biden was announced)

[KevinTBrown]

Since Obama broke his promise to use public funds in his campaign (Which would have forced a spending limit on him) then why should we believe any other promise he gives?

And McCain is whining about it as well: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081019/ap_on_el_pr/mccain

I wonder how much money McCain would have if he didn't take the public funds? I say far less than the $84 million.

[4PointOh]

That's a huge endorsement for Obama. I had intended to watch Meet The Press but got side tracked earlier!

Here's CNN's coverage on the endorsement:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/colin.powell/index.html

Cynics will say that it was obvious because "negroes stick together."

:rolleyes:

[Michael P]

Racists will say that it was obvious because "negroes stick together."

:rolleyes:

Fixed that for you.

[AllisterH]

What I find interesting was Powell's rebuke of the "muslim is bad" argument. The republicans at one time I thought were actually going to be STRONGER thanks to Muslims and Hispanics.

These two groups, one very small and the other a growing/emergent are VERY socially conservative. For example, in 2000, it is estimated that over 90% of Muslims voted for Bush.

Similarly, when it comes to hispanics and social issues, they're most likely to going to vote Republican style. See for example Prop 8 in California. The earlier Prop 22 (define marriage as between a man and a woman) which was struck down by California's supreme court was supported by 60% of the general population.

However, a little over 70% of hispanic voters supported it.

The hispanic vote I always considered a sure-Republican vote which is why Powell's remarks should not be discounted by the rest of the Republican party.

[Buzz Dixon]

I'm not trying to build my hopes up here, but when you have conservatives like Buzz endorsing Obama over McCain it's hard not to get excited.That's because Obama is more conservative than McCain.

And, no, I am not joking.

[the4thpip]

Cynics will say that it was obvious because "negroes stick together."

:rolleyes:

So what does the right-wing think about Colin Powell's endorsement of Barack Obama? One word: Race.

Rush Limbaugh sets the tone:

From Politico's Jonathan Martin:

"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with."

In "Affirmative action at its highest level," RedState diarist Andrew Bolton follows suit:

So Colin Powell has endorsed Obama. Let's see, Powell is pro-abortion. So is Obama. Powell is pro-affirmative action. So is Obama. Powell has stated repeatedly that tax policy should ensure fairness. Obama likewise wants to "spread the wealth." The endorsement of Obama only demonstrates what unpaid prognosticators could have told those million dollar a year experts years ago. Powell never was a Republican. He has been aligned with the Democrats from the day of his retirement from service.

...Affirmative action is now at its zenith here. A unqualified candidate for president who has never run anything; who has never governed anything; and who has policies precisely on line with Karl Marx -- is going to be put into our highest office solely due to his race. Doubt me? Just ask if Obama would be where he is at if he were a white man. The answer is inevitable.

National Review's Mark Steyn doesn't play the race card directly, but merely accuses Powell of currying favor with the front-runner.

The staterooms on the bandwagon are pretty much taken. Standing room only now... A "transformational" president with a Pelosi House and a filibuster-proof Senate. Thanks, Colin!"

But for the true taste of rage, FreeRepublic is your one-stop shop. As excerpted by DailyKos diarist pucklady:

POWELL IS DESPICABLE!! He owes EVERYTHING to Republicans, but BLACKNESS is the ONLY thing that matters!!! Obama want to RUIN THE MILITARY and bring down MAERICA to THIRD WORLD STATUS!!

...Dr. King's dream is dead. It's totally about the color of skin for these people. The content of ones character has ZERO bearing on their decision.


http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/

[KevinTBrown]

That's because Obama is more conservative than McCain.

And, no, I am not joking.

Just out of sheer curiosity, where do you see that Obama is more conservative than McCain?

[4PointOh]

Fixed that for you.

HILARIOUS!!!! :biggrin:

[KevinTBrown]

Colin Powell truly gets it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc

When will the rest of America?

[Buzz Dixon]

Just out of sheer curiosity, where do you see that Obama is more conservative than McCain?He is socially more conservative, and he thinks we should pay for our government services with taxes, not by borrowing money and laying the debt on our grandchildren. He does not believe that a military response should always be the first option in an international conflict but feels it needs to be available just in case. He does not believe in forcing American interests at gunpoint or dollar point if there are other ways of achieving the same ends.

Conservative enough for me.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

He is socially more conservative, and he thinks we should pay for our government services with taxes, not by borrowing money and laying the debt on our grandchildren. He does not believe that a military response should always be the first option in an international conflict but feels it needs to be available just in case. He does not believe in forcing American interests at gunpoint or dollar point if there are other ways of achieving the same ends.

Conservative enough for me.

... Good god...

What the f**k does McCain support? Because that all sounds spot-on...

[JeffreyWKramer]

... Good god...

What the f**k does McCain support? Because that all sounds spot-on...

Mostly, McCain supports himself and the idea that he should be President. Everything else comes a distant second, though he's willing enough to kiss the right asses and make the right sorts of partisan BS statements if he thinks that will get him votes.

Over the past 8 years, and especially the past 5, the guy has abandoned long-held principles, retracted statements and supported ridiculous partisan policies out of the belief that he'd done his time and played the game, and now he was owed the Presidency, and would do practically anything - and kiss up to the most loathesome people and embrace the most wrongheaded policies - in order to win this prize he thought he deserved.

It's pretty sad, really, seeing what he's become over the past several years and particularly watching his progressive meltdown into pettiness, meanness and confusion as he sees slipping away something he feels is owed to him.

I used to respect McCain quite a bit, but at this point in time I have virtually no respect for him, and absolutely none for the version of himself he's been showing for the past few months. At this point I hope he just goes away after the election is over.

[Corrina]

He is socially more conservative, and he thinks we should pay for our government services with taxes, not by borrowing money and laying the debt on our grandchildren. He does not believe that a military response should always be the first option in an international conflict but feels it needs to be available just in case. He does not believe in forcing American interests at gunpoint or dollar point if there are other ways of achieving the same ends.

Conservative enough for me.

And, I believe, that is definitely enough for most Americans. Those are core centrist values, from what I can tell. That's what Clinton ran on, in many ways, though he added in the liberal ideas of health care and things like the family leave act. (Which I consider one of his biggest accomplishments.)

The Bush doctrine of 'let's do it to them before they do it to us,' is not conservative in the least, it's empire building. I well remember the question on nation-building during one of the Bush/Gore debates and Gore talked about getting countries on their feet and using American economic might to turn some of these hostile countries into better functioning democracies and Bush saying, basically, no,no, no we have problems at home. Gore got slammed for that response.

And Bush and his people did a 180 on Iraq, though, of course, they still don't know how to nation-build.

[Buzz Dixon]

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/batmobama-robiden.jpg
(...and just incase the pic doesn't come thru... http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/batmobama-robiden.jpg)

[BnL]

He is socially more conservative.

Eh? How so?

[AllisterH]

Eh? How so?

Um, because he is?

While Clinton chickened out with the "Don't ask, Don't tell" when he tried to integrate the military, Obama wouldn't even propose that in the first place.

Really, as funny as it sounds, he's closer to being a Reagan Democrat in policy. It's just that the current Republicans are definitely right of that....

[Royal]

http://www.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2008/10/18/1224364919912_310.jpg


"The problem in the past has been the man turning us against one another. We have been unable to see the truth, because we have fighting for ten square feet of ground.

Our turf.

Our little piece of turf.

That's crap, brothers!

The turf is ours by right, because it's our turn. All we have to do is keep up the general truce. We take over one borough at a time. Secure our territory... secure our turf... because it's all our turf!"

[Berserk]

Mostly, McCain supports himself and the idea that he should be President. Everything else comes a distant second, though he's willing enough to kiss the right asses and make the right sorts of partisan BS statements if he thinks that will get him votes.

Over the past 8 years, and especially the past 5, the guy has abandoned long-held principles, retracted statements and supported ridiculous partisan policies out of the belief that he'd done his time and played the game, and now he was owed the Presidency, and would do practically anything - and kiss up to the most loathesome people and embrace the most wrongheaded policies - in order to win this prize he thought he deserved.

It's pretty sad, really, seeing what he's become over the past several years and particularly watching his progressive meltdown into pettiness, meanness and confusion as he sees slipping away something he feels is owed to him.

I used to respect McCain quite a bit, but at this point in time I have virtually no respect for him, and absolutely none for the version of himself he's been showing for the past few months. At this point I hope he just goes away after the election is over.




Spot on. If being a maverick means changing your long held beliefs and political views at the drop of a hat just for political benefit, then I don't want a maverick. Obama is consistent, so you know what you're getting with him. McCain on the other hand is completely different from how he was when he ran in 2000.

[Infra-Man]

"The problem in the past has been the man turning us against one another. We have been unable to see the truth, because we have fighting for ten square feet of ground.

Our turf.

Our little piece of turf.

That's crap, brothers!

The turf is ours by right, because it's our turn. All we have to do is keep up the general truce. We take over one borough at a time. Secure our territory... secure our turf... because it's all our turf!"

Can you count, suckas?! Caaaaan yooooou dig iiiiit?!

[Nick Soapdish]

Quite true, but that's NOT what either Obama or McCain are talking about when they talk about their "TAX plan". Mainly because those OTHER taxes are NOT controlled by the federal government and they can't do bupkiss about it.

Again, McCain is right (on an actual issue, wonders of wonders. His campaign really should've focused more on the issues and he would be doing better). Obama is using "tax refunds" as a way to make it so that it looks like he's doing a tax cut.

Smart choice in changing the language on Obama's part....that said, I'm almost positive Paul talked about this in the thread already and nobody batted an eye.

The federal government can do something about local taxes. When I fill out my federal tax return, I am asked about the local and state taxes that I pay and I get to use those as deductions.

The federal government isn't doing anything directly about those taxes (at least in this case, although it can). But it means that when the local taxes are higher, my federal taxes are lower so it is lessening the effect of the increased local taxes. It'll actually do the reverse this year because Florida just passed a constitutional amendment lowering property taxes because of the skyrocketing house prices. (Oops. I guess the local governments are really screwed now.) So I'll have less of an exemption.

That 1/3 that doesn't pay taxes will probably still be getting more back from the government with their refund checks.

He is socially more conservative, and he thinks we should pay for our government services with taxes, not by borrowing money and laying the debt on our grandchildren. He does not believe that a military response should always be the first option in an international conflict but feels it needs to be available just in case. He does not believe in forcing American interests at gunpoint or dollar point if there are other ways of achieving the same ends.

Conservative enough for me.

I'm not sure if any of those are conservative ... or at least if they've been conservative since I've been following politics in the late '80s. They're centrist ... or something that both parties ignore.

And to Allister, how is Obama more conservative than Clinton on homosexuality? He favors repealing "don't ask, don't tell" and allowing gays to serve openly. However, he says that he wouldn't make it a litmus test.

In a similar vein, he doesn't support gay marriage, but does support civil unions which wasn't even an option back in '92.

Both of those are weak support at best for gays, but it's an attempt at making baby steps forward for gay rights. I disagree with him on both stances and want a more aggressive stance, but that looks like it'll be one of the disappointments of an Obama presidency for me.

[Major Comma]

It doesnt sound like Powell has conservative views.
Not all Republicans are conservative

[Nick Soapdish]

It doesnt sound like Powell has conservative views.
Not all Republicans are conservative

He certainly has some. But he's very much a centrist which is probably why he delayed so long in choosing a party.

[BnL]

And to Allister, how is Obama more conservative than Clinton on homosexuality? He favors repealing "don't ask, don't tell" and allowing gays to serve openly. However, he says that he wouldn't make it a litmus test.

In a similar vein, he doesn't support gay marriage, but does support civil unions which wasn't even an option back in '92.

Both of those are weak support at best for gays, but it's an attempt at making baby steps forward for gay rights. I disagree with him on both stances and want a more aggressive stance, but that looks like it'll be one of the disappointments of an Obama presidency for me.

Not only that, but Obama is also pro-choice. I just don't see how he's more socially conservative than McCain.

[Royal]

More on The VanOrman attack ad. (http://mma.fanhouse.com/2008/10/19/matt-lindland-runs-for-office-opponent-attacks-him-for-being-an/)

First, let's deal with the misrepresentations. VanOrman refers to "ultimate fights," but Lindland fights for Affliction, not the Ultimate Fighting Championship. More significantly, she refers to "head butting," even though head butting is not permitted in mixed martial arts.

And then there's this: Lindland was an Olympic silver medalist in Greco-Roman wrestling. He used sports to represent his country, and now he's using sports to make a living. Is VanOrman really suggesting that there's something wrong with that? MMA is no more brutal than football. Does VanOrman think a career as a professional football player should disqualify someone from elected office?

[kingdom2000]

One nice thing is Obamania is all these conservatives that are checking their viewpoints. Anotehr things is those that get paid to spout their views chosing to back Obama and getting a little taste of what we all have been complaining about for years and years (even the dixie chicks).

As for Powell, what the hell took him so long? Was he this indecisive when he was Sec. of State? Is that why he was so easily tricked by Bush and co?

At this point it doesn't even seem newsworthy to me. Do you seriousily think those undecideds where going "I am waiting to see what Powell will do before I make up my mind!" The only impact this "news" has is it gives the pundits something to talk about on what has been a relativily slow weekend.

[the4thpip]

As for Powell, what the hell took him so long? Was he this indecisive when he was Sec. of State? Is that why he was so easily tricked by Bush and co?


The "Powell doctrine," as articulated by former chief of staff Colin Powell in a Foreign Affairs article in 1992, holds that military action should be used only as a last resort, but if you're going to do it, use "overwhelming force."

You could argue that the retired general and former secretary of state employed a version of his doctrine in his appearance on "Meet the Press" Sunday morning.
I liked that explanation at salon.com.

[kingdom2000]

I liked that explanation at salon.com.

To bad Bush doesn't read and study history, the last 7 years might have been different.

But doesn't answer my comment, as there is no "overwhelming force" to his endorsement. To me its too little to late to matter one way or the other since the 8% that haven't made up their minds are not going to just because of him. More then likely those will not make up their minds until about 5 seconds before they make a choice even if god came down and pointed at a candidate and said "choose him!". There reply would be "I don't know, I still need more information. Not sure what but I will know it when I hear it."

[the4thpip]

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2008/10/custom_1224434536535_sarah_palin_tales_from_the_cr ypt_4.jpg

According to Jim Salicrup, editor-in-chief of Papercutz, the publisher that revived the classic title about 16 months ago. "This was not a partisan thing. People tend to think of everything as black and white these days—you are either for or against one of the parties 100%. But for us this was about the history of EC Comics, the original publisher of 'Tales from the Crypt.' Anyone who knows that history knows that even of whiff of banning books is going to get us angry."

[KevinTBrown]

Oh, now this is interesting: Freddie Mac arranged stealth campaign with GOP. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081020/ap_on_bi_ge/the_influence_game_housing)

McCain was not one of those "targeted", but he did end up putting his signature on Hagel's letter to kill the bill.




Gee, according to McCain, if was all Obama's fault.... :rolleyes:

[FalconX2000]

Oh, now this is interesting: Freddie Mac arranged stealth campaign with GOP. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081020/ap_on_bi_ge/the_influence_game_housing)

McCain was not one of those "targeted", but he did end up putting his signature on Hagel's letter to kill the bill.




Gee, according to McCain, if was all Obama's fault.... :rolleyes:

Wait a minute...Hagel tried to push legislation to regulate Freedie Mac back in 2006?:eek: Wow. Respect.

[Stressfactor]

I was surprised to learn this weekend that my sister and brother-in-law, who are usually moderate Republicans are going to vote for Obama -- both of them!

On the flip side my mother.... *sigh*... She said she "didn't trust Obama's religion". I responded "What? He's a Christian" and she replied "So he SAYS." She also thinks he's "one of those Black radicals" thanks to the Jeremiah Wright stuff.

Although god only knows, even if Obama WERE a radical what the hell does she think he'd DO in the White House?!?!?! I mean, honestly -- the President only has so much power does she think he'd make a law that now white people will be second class citizens? I just don't GET that mindset -- even in my own family.

[Typo Lad]

Tell your mom:

"Fine, don't vote for Obama. Vote against McCain"

[Stressfactor]

Double post. Crap.

[Stressfactor]

Tell your mom:

"Fine, don't vote for Obama. Vote against McCain"

No, unfortunately she rather likes McCain. She thinks that the US needs to go drilling for more oil and she honestly seems to believe that, rather than the planet running out of oil, that there is still plenty of oil left around we just have to spend more money looking for it. :rolleyes:

She watches Fox News religiously -- which, when she claimed I didn't see enough news to understand these things I reeled off that I listen to NPR, watch CNN and PBS and read the newspaper whereas she only watches Fox News and reads the newspaper. She TRIED to claim she listened to NPR but I called her on that one because I KNOW she doesn't.

And when I said that Fox News was so Republican it wasn't funny she tried to claim it wasn't and then she said "I watch Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck" and I said "And they're Republican!" she responded "No they aren't they're conservative" I rolled my eyes and said "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK REPUBLICANS ARE?!?!?!"

The good news is that 1) She probably won't bother to go out and vote. 2) Even if she does me, my B-i-L and my sister and voting Obama and we will MORE than cancel out her vote.

But she's often said that she likes Bill O'Reilly because "He tells it like it is." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Typo Lad]

No, unfortunately she rather likes McCain. She thinks that the US needs to go drilling for more oil and she honestly seems to believe that, rather than the planet running out of oil, that there is still plenty of oil left around we just have to spend more money looking for it. :rolleyes:

Tell her

"I support more drilling too mom. That's why I like Obama's energy plan, which includes more domestic drilling, including in sites that the big oil companies have now but aren't using."

She watches Fox News religiously -- which, when she claimed I didn't see enough news to understand these things I reeled off that I listen to NPR, watch CNN and PBS and read the newspaper whereas she only watches Fox News and reads the newspaper. She TRIED to claim she listened to NPR but I called her on that one because I KNOW she doesn't.

If I may suggest - don't be combative if you can help it. I find in familial situations like this, it tends to hurt more than help.

And when I said that Fox News was so Republican it wasn't funny she tried to claim it wasn't and then she said "I watch Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck" and I said "And they're Republican!" she responded "No they aren't they're conservative" I rolled my eyes and said "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK REPUBLICANS ARE?!?!?!"

To be fair, there are Liberal Republicans and Conservative Democrats. Really. Fox News has a Republican Bias more than they have a Conservative one even. Were they really Conservative, they would give Republicans who do bad things (like solicit sex in airports) a far sounder thrashing.

The good news is that 1) She probably won't bother to go out and vote.

Even though i disagree with how she would vote, that depresses me more.

But she's often said that she likes Bill O'Reilly because "He tells it like it is." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Find the Daily Show clip of them comparing his reactions to Bristol Palin's pregnancy and the Spears gal.

[Royal]

Vote Lindland (http://www.mattfororegon.com/index.html)

Because VanOrman's campain is real weak.

[Stressfactor]

With my mom I usually try to just avoid politics and religion altogether. She's from an older generation (I was a "Change of life" baby) and I think a lot of it just comes down to she's uncomfortable voting for an African-American man.

[Royal]

Lil Bill vs. Barney Frank (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK631vOJ9LY)

[FalconX2000]

With my mom I usually try to just avoid politics and religion altogether. She's from an older generation (I was a "Change of life" baby) and I think a lot of it just comes down to she's uncomfortable voting for an African-American man.

Just how exactly did a generation see such a huge shift in becoming more comfortable with gays and blacks?

If people felt that being gay was 'wrong' and it was a 'value' to discriminate against them, why didn't they teach it to their kids? The same with blacks, except substitute 'wrong' for 'strange, lazy and inferior' and 'value' for 'fact'.

Somehow the bigotry didn't get passed on.

[Buzz Dixon]

And when I said that Fox News was so Republican it wasn't funny she tried to claim it wasn't and then she said "I watch Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck" and I said "And they're Republican!" she responded "No they aren't they're conservative" I rolled my eyes and said "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK REPUBLICANS ARE?!?!?!"Based on the current White House, I'd say it's pretty clear they are anything but conservatives.

And there's nothing wrong with Fox staking out a POV and building all their programs around it. They're open and honest that they have that slant.

[the4thpip]

Barack Obama has opened his biggest lead yet over John McCain in Virginia. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in the state finds Obama now leading 54% to 44%. The Democrat leads 51% to 48% among men and 57% to 42% among women (see full demographic crosstabs).

Just one week ago, Obama held a three percentage point lead but Obama has been dramatically outspending McCain on television advertising in this critical state. The Democrat has now been ahead of McCain in five straight Virginia polls conducted by Rasmussen Reports.

Virginia has moved that state from "Toss-Up" to "Leans Democratic" in the Rasmussen Reports Balance of Power Calculator. With this change, Obama leads in states with 260 Electoral College votes while McCain is ahead in states with 163 Electoral College votes. When “leaners” are included, it’s Obama 313, McCain 174.

[Buzz Dixon]

Just how exactly did a generation see such a huge shift in becoming more comfortable with gays and blacks?TV showed unfrightening gay and African-American people. Whenever somebody tries to rev up a full bore hate-on, there's always the nagging thought in the back of their head, "...except that guy on that show I like, he's okay."

Once one of 'em is okay, it becomes impossible to tarnish them all.

[Stressfactor]

Just how exactly did a generation see such a huge shift in becoming more comfortable with gays and blacks?

If people felt that being gay was 'wrong' and it was a 'value' to discriminate against them, why didn't they teach it to their kids? The same with blacks, except substitute 'wrong' for 'strange, lazy and inferior' and 'value' for 'fact'.

Somehow the bigotry didn't get passed on.

In some ways it's a bit hard to explain. With my mom (and some others I've met of her age) they actually DID know and work worth African-American people and, those that they knew personally, well, those were "good" people. I was raised to not discriminate but I suppose it was a case of "Do as I say, don't do as I do".

For me, though, the whole kicker was college. It's easy to at least not think of others until you get to meet a lot of them personally. The more people you meet the more you realize that all people are really not THAT different.

More than anything it's just EXPERIENCE. If a person gets out there and meets a lot of people in a lot of situations then they soon discover that there is a lot more in common across the board than there are differences and you have to love the stuff you have in common and acknowledge the differences but not let them stand in the way.

Where bigotry gets passed down, it seems, are with those who never do break out and expand their horizons. If they hang out with their parents ideas and ONLY those people who hold the same ideas then they never learn for themselves.

[CutterMike]

Based on the current White House, I'd say it's pretty clear they are anything but conservatives.

And there's nothing wrong with Fox staking out a POV and building all their programs around it. They're open and honest that they have that slant.Ah.

So they're not still using the "Fair and balanced..." ad-line, then...?:rolleyes:

[EdContradictory]

Just how exactly did a generation see such a huge shift in becoming more comfortable with gays and blacks?

If people felt that being gay was 'wrong' and it was a 'value' to discriminate against them, why didn't they teach it to their kids? The same with blacks, except substitute 'wrong' for 'strange, lazy and inferior' and 'value' for 'fact'.

Somehow the bigotry didn't get passed on.

They tried, but their kids had access to other points of view and other images of minorities that could counteract the prejudices their parents tried to pass on.

It's hard for a family to teach their kids that blacks are inferior when that same family watches The Cosby Show every week.

I think it's a two step process. The first is a normalization. And following that either a new level of acceptance (or at least tolerance).

[KevinTBrown]

By the way, for those who are interested, here's a list of what newspapers are endorsing Obama and McCain: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003875230

Right now, Obama leads 115-38.

[Infra-Man]

Ever wonder what hypocritical douchebaggery looks like?

John McCain tries to defend his use of robocalls... and fails miserably with sneer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsLocenvNB0

[Berserk]

Tell your mom:

"Fine, don't vote for Obama. Vote against McCain"



For Republicans who don't want to vote for Obama but think that McCain is also the wrong choice, I advise that they stay home. If more Democrats show up to vote because a lot of Republican voters choose to abstain, then Obama will win.

[Infra-Man]

John McCain on his fringe supporters:
I'm proud of all my supporters and how dare you denigrate them.

Moderate and Muslim John McCain supporters to fringe supporters:
Fuck you guys, and get the fuck out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/muslim-mccain-fans-confro_n_136203.html

It appears the people in the video have more balls and more scruples than the campaign they support.

[Briareos]

Remember that report on the guy who shouted kill him at a McCain rally? The secret service investigated. They have concluded it didn't happen. None of their agents heard it and they were able to find no one who heard it either. The only person who claims to have heard it is a reporter.

[Berserk]

Remember that report on the guy who shouted kill him at a McCain rally? The secret service investigated. They have concluded it didn't happen. None of their agents heard it and they were able to find no one who heard it either. The only person who claims to have heard it is a reporter.



I heard people shouting, "off with his head" and "terrorist", on news footage, coming from McCain/Palin crowds.

[Royal]

Remember that report on the guy who shouted kill him at a McCain rally? The secret service investigated. They have concluded it didn't happen. None of their agents heard it and they were able to find no one who heard it either. The only person who claims to have heard it is a reporter.

Source or GTFO.

[Black Atom]

Remember that report on the guy who shouted kill him at a McCain rally? The secret service investigated. They have concluded it didn't happen. None of their agents heard it and they were able to find no one who heard it either. The only person who claims to have heard it is a reporter.

It was reported that "kill him" was shouted at two different events. The SS concluded it didn't happen at one and that, on closer review, it was the phrase "tell him" that was shouted at the other.

[Grazzt]

It was reported that "kill him" was shouted at two different events. The SS concluded it didn't happen at one and that, on closer review, it was the phrase "tell him" that was shouted at the other.

"They're really shouting 'Boo-urns'."

[TomStillwell]

Could Rick Davis be anymore of a douchebag?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/rick-davis-were-rethinkin_n_136173.html

"Look, John McCain has told us a long time ago before this campaign ever got started, back in May, I think, that from his perspective, he was not going to have his campaign actively involved in using Jeremiah Wright as a wedge in this campaign," he said late last week. "Now since then, I must say, when Congressman Lewis calls John McCain and Sarah Palin and his entire group of supporters, fifty million people strong around this country, that we're all racists and we should be compared to George Wallace and the kind of horrible segregation and evil and horrible politics that was played at that time, you know, that you've got to rethink all these things. And so I think we're in the process of looking at how we're going to close this campaign. We've got 19 days, and we're taking serious all these issues."

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Could Rick Davis be anymore of a douchebag?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/rick-davis-were-rethinkin_n_136173.html

Ohhh as Obama's campaign manager said "Expect the kitchen sink to be thrown out."

Its never shocking to see how far they'll go to win this. In 15 days expect some wild shit to come out.

[Major Comma]

Does any body know where I can find an indepoendent analysis of both candidates economic and health care Policies online ?
Thanks !

[Paul McEnery]

Does any body know where I can find an indepoendent analysis of both candidates economic and health care Policies online ?
Thanks !

Here's a start.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

http://www.johnmccain.com/healthcare/

http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/03/a-detailed-anal.html

http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/02/an-analysis-of.html

[KevinTBrown]

By the way, if you're interested in the size tax cut you'll receive, go here: http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/


How anyone can still vote for McCain after checking that out is beyond me.

[KevinTBrown]

Breaking news: Obama will be suspending his campaign for 2 days (Thursday & Friday) to spend it with his seriously ill grandmother in Hawaii.


No links as yet to post.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Breaking news: Obama will be suspending his campaign for 2 days (Thursday & Friday) to spend it with his seriously ill grandmother in Hawaii.


No links as yet to post.

Could we see John McCain claim "See , would I ever desert the American people if someone was ill ? No way...I care. Obama doesn't..."

:tongue:

[KevinTBrown]

By the way, it's been 2,000 days since this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFijzDyJnVE&feature=related

[AllisterH]

By the way, if you're interested in the size tax cut you'll receive, go here: http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/


How anyone can still vote for McCain after checking that out is beyond me.

Um, because they don't believe their tax cut should come at the expense of others?

Wonders of wonders, there are some lower-class people that don't begrudge those that do well

(reading this site, you get the impression that those in the lower class are always looking to stick it to the upper class....)

[mattx110]

Um, because they don't believe their tax cut should come at the expense of others?

Wonders of wonders, there are some lower-class people that don't begrudge those that do well

(reading this site, you get the impression that those in the lower class are always looking to stick it to the upper class....)
Scary thought isn't it?

[Michael P]

(reading this site, you get the impression that those in the lower class are always looking to stick it to the upper class....)

Turnabout is fair play.

[Briareos]

Also everyone is pretending that Obama will actually live up to his promise. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut then once in office he raised taxes on everyone.

[KevinTBrown]

Also everyone is pretending that Obama will actually live up to his promise. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut then once in office he raised taxes on everyone.

Um, not for me..... My taxes are a LOT higher now than at any time under Clinton.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Also everyone is pretending that Obama will actually live up to his promise. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut then once in office he raised taxes on everyone.

How many promises do you expect John McCain to keep ...before he changes his mind as usual ?

I mean do I like someone who would kiss whatever ass , do whatever it takes to get to the ultimate seat of power , ...yes I do. Sure McCain is an asshole and I wouldn't trust the guy to mow my yard , but ya gotta like someone who will fucking do anything to win.

But if I really wanted a ILL SAY ANYTHING to get in the White House I'd go McCain. But I feel he doesn't have the patience with forgien policy/economy, has Sarah Palin he's gotta teach and hope she doesn't fuck up , and I fear at his age something may happen and put that nutcase in charge.

So give me Barack Obama.

[KevinTBrown]

How many promises do you expect John McCain to keep ...before he changes his mind as usual ?

I mean do I like someone who would kiss whatever ass , do whatever it takes to get to the ultimate seat of power , ...yes I do. Sure McCain is an asshole and I wouldn't trust the guy to mow my yard , but ya gotta like someone who will fucking do anything to win.

But if I really wanted a ILL SAY ANYTHING to get in the White House I'd go McCain. But I feel he doesn't have the patience with forgien policy/economy, has Sarah Palin he's gotta teach and hope she doesn't fuck up , and I fear at his age something may happen and put that nutcase in charge.

So give me Barack Obama.


You know, the next time McCain decides to change his mind, perhaps he can get one that works then?

[Infra-Man]

Um, because they don't believe their tax cut should come at the expense of others?

Wonders of wonders, there are some lower-class people that don't begrudge those that do well

I don't doubt that, but where else would a tax break come from?

The middle class (the vast majority of Americans and hence the vast majority of American consumers and the American workforce) need tax relief of some sort, which I think most of us agree, since the cost of living has gone up and wages have decreased. There is a great deal of disparity between the quality of living for the top 5% (especially as you eke up to 1%) of wage earners and everyone else, and rather than view this as something punitive to those who are better off, I view it as helping the vast majority of people that are struggling to make ends meet.

(reading this site, you get the impression that those in the lower class are always looking to stick it to the upper class....)

I don't know if that last assertion is founded. Some people think that the middle class require tax relief but don't begrudge those who make more.

I think what's important to emphasize here is that we are about to go into a very lean, troubled time economically, so everyone is going to have to live within their means and weather it. Since the vast majority of Americans earn less than $250k, they are in need of the most assistance in this lean time, as they are probably already struggling with debt, struggling with bills, and currently making sacrifices, particularly if they are raising a family or putting a child through school. An vast majority of small businesses makes less than $250k a year, and they could benefit from tax relief as well.

Those making more than $250k face their own struggles in this lean time, and to varying extents. They too will have to will have to live within their means during this period. Their means are more (maybe considerably more) than others, and their sacrifices significant, but what they can go without may likely be non-essentials and what would be considered luxury items (especially to those not as well off as them).

It's naive to think that taxes alone are the thing that are keeping people away from great wealth, and it's equally naive to think that taxes are the sole cause of divesting people of all their wealth.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

You know, the next time McCain decides to change his mind, perhaps he can get one that works then?

Maybe but he'll likely claim he never said he needed a new mind , and the one he has has never changed its stance. And its clear some would eat it up with a spoon...:tongue:

[Tobias March]

I don't doubt that, but where else would a tax break come from?

The middle class (the vast majority of Americans and hence the vast majority of American consumers and the American workforce) need tax relief of some sort, which I think most of us agree, since the cost of living has gone up and wages have decreased. There is a great deal of disparity between the quality of living for the top 5% (especially as you eke up to 1%) of wage earners and everyone else, and rather than view this as something punitive to those who are better off, I view it as helping the vast majority of people that are struggling to make ends meet.



I don't know if that last assertion is founded. Some people think that the middle class require tax relief but don't begrudge those who make more.

I think what's important to emphasize here is that we are about to go into a very lean, troubled time economically, so everyone is going to have to live within their means and weather it. Since the vast majority of Americans earn less than $250k, they are in need of the most assistance in this lean time, as they are probably already struggling with debt, struggling with bills, and currently making sacrifices, particularly if they are raising a family or putting a child through school. An vast majority of small businesses makes less than $250k a year, and they could benefit from tax relief as well.

Those making more than $250k face their own struggles in this lean time, and to varying extents. They too will have to will have to live within their means during this period. Their means are more (maybe considerably more) than others, and their sacrifices significant, but what they can go without may likely be non-essentials and what would be considered luxury items (especially to those not as well off as them).

It's naive to think that taxes alone are the thing that are keeping people away from great wealth, and it's equally naive to think that taxes are the sole cause of divesting people of all their wealth.

That's commie talk that is!!! :tongue:

[Infra-Man]

That's commie talk that is!!! :tongue:

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/infra-manche2.jpg

/quick and dirty

[Black Atom]

Um, because they don't believe their tax cut should come at the expense of others?

Wonders of wonders, there are some lower-class people that don't begrudge those that do well

(reading this site, you get the impression that those in the lower class are always looking to stick it to the upper class....)

The upper class certainly has no problem exerting downward economic pressure on the lower and using their influence on more policy to disfranchise them. Plus, it sounds a heckuva lot better than giving a tax cut to these same folks, hoping they'll suddenly become very charitable so it'll trickle down.

[EMeadow]

By the way, for those who are interested, here's a list of what newspapers are endorsing Obama and McCain: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003875230

Right now, Obama leads 115-38.

And the Arizona Republic isn't even endorsing ANYONE yet, and you'd think my home newspaper would have supported McCain long ago.

Love it. If the paper decided to support Obama the state would just not know what to do with itself.

[the4thpip]

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/10/21/tomo/story.jpg

[the4thpip]

GOP-sponsored group commited voter registration fraud:

SACRAMENTO -- Dozens of newly minted Republican voters say they were duped into joining the party by a GOP contractor with a trail of fraud complaints stretching across the country.

Voters contacted by The Times said they were tricked into switching parties while signing what they believed were petitions for tougher penalties against child molesters. Some said they were told that they had to become Republicans to sign the petition, contrary to California initiative law. Others had no idea their registration was being changed.

Election officials and lawmakers have launched investigations into the activities of YPM workers in Florida and Massachusetts. In Arizona, the firm was recently a defendant in a civil rights lawsuit. Prosecutors in Los Angeles and Ventura counties say they are investigating complaints about the company.

The firm, which a Republican Party spokesman said is paid $7 to $12 for each registration it secures, has denied any wrongdoing and says it has never been charged with a crime.

Those who were formerly Democrats may stop receiving phone calls and literature from that party, perhaps affecting its get-out-the-vote efforts. They also will be given only a Republican ballot in the next primary election if they do not switch their registration back before then.

Some also report having their registration status changed to absentee without their permission; if they show up at the polls without a ballot they may be unable to vote.


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud18-2008oct18,0,1216330.story?track=ntothtml

[the4thpip]

More on that organisation:

MSNBC's Contessa Brewer asked legal analyst Susan Filan on Monday about the case. "This is really serious," Filan responded. "This is a very specific, deliberate intent to mislead." She contrasted it with the far more trivial accusations of voter fraud against the anti-poverty group ACORN, which has handed in occasional fake registrations under names such as "Mickey Mouse."

Late on Saturday, the owner of Young Political Majors, Mark Jacoby, was arrested on charges of having fraudulently registered himself to vote at a California address where he lived as a child so that he would meet California's legal requirement that signature gatherers be eligible to vote in that state.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Arrest_in_California_GOP_voter_fraud_1020.html

[Charles RB]

GOP-sponsored group commited voter registration fraud:


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud18-2008oct18,0,1216330.story?track=ntothtml

Jesus shit. :eek:

[Corrina]

On the threat of violence toward Democrats at Palin's rallies....

How does one explain a poster of Palin with her rifle and under it the caption "Well, do you feel lucky today, libs?"

The photo of said poster was in the NY Times.

[Matt Doc Martin]

GOP-sponsored group commited voter registration fraud:


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud18-2008oct18,0,1216330.story?track=ntothtml

Odd. I thought they stole elections through Diebold machines.

[Matt Doc Martin]

On the threat of violence toward Democrats at Palin's rallies....

How does one explain a poster of Palin with her rifle and under it the caption "Well, do you feel lucky today, libs?"

The photo of said poster was in the NY Times.

Maverick! Lipstick! Russia from my house!

[KevinTBrown]

According to one poll, Obama opens up an 8 point lead among likely voters (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081021/pl_nm/us_usa_politics_poll).

:smile:

Good news abounds.

[the4thpip]

Odd. I thought they stole elections through Diebold machines.

They are multi-tasking.

[the4thpip]

According to one poll, Obama opens up an 8 point lead among likely voters (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081021/pl_nm/us_usa_politics_poll).

:smile:

Good news abounds.

That is the biggest lead he has had in that particular poll.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p8LB5pbeqmidWrQSfUjYKBg&oid=8&output=image

[KevinTBrown]

Odd. I thought they stole elections through Diebold machines.

They are multi-tasking.

The Dems, especially Obama's campaign, is on top of it this year. They reportedly have 500+ attorneys ready to go in Florida.

[K-DoG7p7]

i love how the daily show is attacking the whole "Real america" thing :P

[SUPERECWFAN1]

According to one poll, Obama opens up an 8 point lead among likely voters (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081021/pl_nm/us_usa_politics_poll).

:smile:

Good news abounds.

Polls that MSNBC showed ..has Obama with 8-11 point leads in various polls.

i love how the daily show is attacking the whole "Real america" thing :P

Its a damn joke to be honest. And that Senator from Minnisota has already cried like a baby claiming she was taken outta context on Hardball. And its amazing to watch her perhaps tank her career in record time for believing the whole "Us vs Them" bullshit Palin floated.

I'll say it...I don't think divide politics is gonna work in this election and the people are lashing out against the Republicans who try it.

[KevinTBrown]

Federal Reserve Chairman endorses Obama's fiscal "stimulus": http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122455027730552509.html


That banging sound you hear is McCain hitting his head against his desk. :tongue:

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Polls that MSNBC showed ..has Obama with 8-11 point leads in various polls.



CNN says the margin is shrinking (it was 6 points last week) and will shrink even further as election day approaches.

Does it make me a terrible person to feel the need to beat undecided voters in the head with a baseball bat?

[the4thpip]

CNN says the margin is shrinking (it was 6 points last week) and will shrink even further as election day approaches.

Does it make me a terrible person to feel the need to beat undecided voters in the head with a baseball bat?

Some parts of the media seem to pick and choose the (fewer) polls that show a tightening and ignore the other polls that either show the race with a stable lead for Obama (Rasmussen) or even with a widening lead (Reuters).

It's because they need ratings.

[Infra-Man]

Does it make me a terrible person to feel the need to beat undecided voters in the head with a baseball bat?

I'd rather shove their faces into some magazines and newspapers so they can read, get informed, and be able to make the decision that feels right to them.

Since the majority of undecideds tend to be low-info voters (at least that's my assumption), they probably only use newspapers and magazines to line the bird cage.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Some parts of the media seem to pick and choose the (fewer) polls that show a tightening and ignore the other polls that either show the race with a stable lead for Obama (Rasmussen) or even with a widening lead (Reuters).

It's because they need ratings.


God, I hope you´re right....

These are gonna be two very LONG weeks....

[Briareos]

Joe Biden admits Obama is not ready to be president:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grv3EE1zsk8

[Briareos]

I'd rather shove their faces into some magazines and newspapers so they can read, get informed, and be able to make the decision that feels right to them.

Since the majority of undecideds tend to be low-info voters (at least that's my assumption), they probably only use newspapers and magazines to line the bird cage.

Yes because only mouth breathing knuckle draggers would vote against Obama...

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Federal Reserve Chairman endorses Obama's fiscal "stimulus": http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122455027730552509.html


That banging sound you hear is McCain hitting his head against his desk. :tongue:

Well lets see.... thats Colin Powell and now this. Thats pretty damning thus far.

CNN says the margin is shrinking (it was 6 points last week) and will shrink even further as election day approaches.

Does it make me a terrible person to feel the need to beat undecided voters in the head with a baseball bat?

Some parts of the media seem to pick and choose the (fewer) polls that show a tightening and ignore the other polls that either show the race with a stable lead for Obama (Rasmussen) or even with a widening lead (Reuters).

It's because they need ratings.

Pretty much...a lot of polls say McCain has a huge decifit to undo. But even with various attack ads...nothing is landing.



Joe Biden admits Obama is not ready to be president:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grv3EE1zsk8


Look, Joe Biden claims McCain isn't man enough to look Obama in the eye and smear him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYG09yicRU8

:tongue:

[Infra-Man]

Yes because only mouth breathing knuckle draggers would vote against Obama...

Where did I say that?

"I'd rather shove their faces into some magazines and newspapers so they can read, get informed, and be able to make the decision that feels right to them."

Does the bolded text spell Obama or McCain or a third-party candidate?

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9646/readingoz7.jpg

[Briareos]

Obama supporter (some state senator) is asked to name Obama's accomplishments. He is completely unable to do so and this isn't somebody off the street. This is a politician who is knowing that he will be on national TV and should have known this question was coming. Even if he didn't think he would be asked that shouldn't anyone who supports Obama be able to name at least one legislative acomplishment off the top of his head?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o

[SUPERECWFAN1]

This week Sarah Palin found a new horse to ride hard...Tito Munoz ...aka "Tito the Builder". Theres no idea if each state will have a guy like Florida ... "Carlos the Orange Harvester" or perhaps Colorado ... "Mark the Bronco's Fan" !

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/21/palin-dubs-obama-barack-the-wealth-spender/

[Infra-Man]

Obama supporter (some state senator) is asked to name Obama's accomplishments. He is completely unable to do so and this isn't somebody off the street. This is a politician who is knowing that he will be on national TV and should have known this question was coming. Even if he didn't think he would be asked that shouldn't anyone who supports Obama be able to name at least one legislative acomplishment off the top of his head?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o


http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/mr_peabody_and_sherman.jpg
MR PEABODY: Sherman, we're going to take the Way Back Machine to the democratic primaries and examine an uninformed state senator look like a fool on the news.

SHERMAN: While I agree he deserves to be mocked for his ignorance, don't you think in the months since this video he's learned more about Barack Obama's legislative accomplishments so he won't make a total boob of himself now that the general election is in full swing and coming to an end? And don't you think it's disingenuous to talk about it now since a lot has changed and a lot of information can be accrued over the course of seven months?

MR. PEABODY: ...

SHERMAN: Mr. Peabody?

MR. PEABODY: Quiet, you.

[carabas]

Obama supporter (some state senator) is asked to name Obama's accomplishments. He is completely unable to do so and this isn't somebody off the street. This is a politician who is knowing that he will be on national TV and should have known this question was coming...Would it be unfair to mention the Palin and Couric comedy double act here?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73itui30qIE

Ohh in a segment that was linked weeks ago...CNN had one of McCain advisers on and pushed him hard to dicuss a decision about the National Guard Palin did as Govenor. He couldn't name one.

The campaign pulled McCain off Larry King for this act of actually asking something she did.

[Shade]

This week Sarah Palin found a new horse to ride hard...Tito Munoz ...aka "Tito the Builder". Theres no idea if each state will have a guy like Florida ... "Carlos the Orange Harvester" or perhaps Colorado ... "Mark the Bronco's Fan" !

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/21/palin-dubs-obama-barack-the-wealth-spender/

That is awesome. Everyone can just be their job. "John the Programmer" here in Virginia thinks Palin is full of poo!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

That is awesome. Everyone can just be their job. "John the Programmer" here in Virginia thinks Palin is full of poo!

Well "Richard the Contractor" thinks Palin and McCain need to stop finding people to bail them outta states their losing in. Obama should contend ... "Its easy to pick people outta the crowd and make claims for 1 person. But I stand behind everyone who votes for me...be it contractors , plumbers , builders ect ect"

[EdContradictory]

Obama supporter (some state senator) is asked to name Obama's accomplishments. He is completely unable to do so and this isn't somebody off the street. This is a politician who is knowing that he will be on national TV and should have known this question was coming. Even if he didn't think he would be asked that shouldn't anyone who supports Obama be able to name at least one legislative acomplishment off the top of his head?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGeu_4Ekx-o

Wow. A YouTube from February.

You guys are getting desperate, aren't you?

I can't wait for Nov 4th. The Republican party is about to be set back a generation.

Are you going to cry when you lose?

[Kevinroc]

Well "Richard the Contractor" thinks Palin and McCain need to stop finding people to bail them outta states their losing in. Obama should contend ... "Its easy to pick people outta the crowd and make claims for 1 person. But I stand behind everyone who votes for me...be it contractors , plumbers , builders ect ect"

Obama has to stand behind everyone, regardless if whether they vote for him or not. If Barack Obama looks to be the next president, he has to stand behind all Americans, not just a few.

[the4thpip]

In an interview with a St. Louis television station, John McCain was asked whether he was "proud" of a particularly caustic anti-Obama mailer sent out recently by the Republican National Committee. "Absolutely," McCain replied.

The front of the mailer shows the nose of a plane parked at an airport gate; in an apparent reference to the 9/11 attacks, the accompanying text reads, "Terrorists don't care who they hurt." Inside, the mailer claims that Barack Obama "thinks terrorists just need a good talking to," a gross distortion of his positions. It goes on to say, "Islamic extremists want our laws changed, our culture destroyed and our families converted. We don't. What is there to talk about?"

Finally, it concludes, "Barack Obama. Not who you think he is."

A video of the McCain interview, showing the question directed to him and his response as well as images of the mailer, is below.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/21/mailer/index.html

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=2sF-a1lDpMg

[the4thpip]

Barack Obama’s lead over John McCain has steadily increased since mid-September, when the race was essentially even. Shortly after the first presidential debate on Sept. 26, Obama moved to a 49% to 42% lead; that margin inched up to 50% to 40% in a poll taken just after the second debate. Currently, Obama enjoys his widest margin yet over McCain among registered voters, at 52% to 38%. When the sample of voters is narrowed to those most likely to vote, Obama leads by 53% to 39%.

http://people-press.org/report/462/obamas-lead-widens

http://people-press.org/reports/images/462-1.gif

[the4thpip]

The lobster dinner that wasn't

Last Friday, the New York Post's famous gossip column, Page Six, printed what seemed like a devastating report, with potential to impact the election. "Though he's battling GOP accusations that he's an Ivy League elitist, Barack Obama has a lifestyle of the rich and famous," the report read. "While he was at a meeting at the Waldorf-Astoria at 4 p.m. Wednesday, Michelle Obama called room service and ordered lobster hors d'oeuvres, two whole steamed lobsters, Iranian caviar and champagne, a tipster told Page Six."

Page Six is known for being less than absolutely devoted to the truth, especially when it's going after one of its column's favorite targets. (Sometimes, those targets seem related to the interests of the newspaper's parent company, Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.) Still, even for them, this story reeked. There was the thin sourcing, of course. Plus -- she ate Iranian caviar? Come on. Apparently, someone just couldn't resist adding that extra little bit of detail, but it was just obviously too good to be true.

Lo and behold, it was -- turns out Obama couldn't even have been at the hotel at the time the column said she was.

That didn't stop some of the remaining PUMA holdout sites from prominently featuring the item, and posting images of what was purportedly a reciept for the order. Some of those sites, like Puma PAC, have apologized for the error. One, HillBuzz, removed its post that included the fake reciept (Google's cached version is here), but apparently without acknowledging the deletion, a violation of typical blogger etiquette.

As for Page Six, it printed this correction:

The source who told us last week about Michelle Obama getting lobster and caviar delivered to her room at the Waldorf-Astoria must have been under the influence of a mind-altering drug. She was not even staying at the Waldorf. We regret the mistake, and our former source is going to regret it, too. Bread and water would be too good for such disinformation.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/21/lobster/index.html

[the4thpip]

God, I hope you´re right....

These are gonna be two very LONG weeks....

Do you see any tightening of the polls?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/polls.jpg

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Do you see any tightening of the polls?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/polls.jpg

McCain can point out.....the polls are rigged !:tongue:

[Grazzt]

Do you see any tightening of the polls?

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/the4thpip/polls.jpg

To be perfectly fair, yes, it does look like Obama's popularity hit a peak and is starting to go down. Whether that's going to be a trend or not (or if it's going to happen fast enough for McCain to win the election) is the question.

[Major Comma]

that doesnt look like a poll,
Its like comparing two heartbeats.

[the4thpip]

To be perfectly fair, yes, it does look like Obama's popularity hit a peak and is starting to go down. Whether that's going to be a trend or not (or if it's going to happen fast enough for McCain to win the election) is the question.

Um... the end of the blue line is pretty much at the highest point it's ever been. There really is not "going down" there.

[Grazzt]

Um... the end of the blue line is pretty much at the highest point it's ever been. There really is not "going down" there.

Sorry, I was referring to the bottom graph, which I assume is the difference between McCain and Obama. Which makes it the most important of the graphs, in my mind. You can see that Obama's lead just dropped a couple of points and is rebounding slightly.

[Buzz Dixon]

The upper class certainly has no problem exerting downward economic pressure on the lower and using their influence on more policy to disfranchise them. Plus, it sounds a heckuva lot better than giving a tax cut to these same folks, hoping they'll suddenly become very charitable so it'll trickle down.In fairness, the idea of "trickle down" is not that the upper class would become charitable but that they'd have so much money they'd buy even more crap, thus giving jobs to middle and lower class people.

Huh. What they do is buy property and businesses that the middle class and poor have to pay to use.

[Buzz Dixon]

I don't think divide politics is gonna work in this election and the people are lashing out against the Republicans who try it.A lot of former GOP voters would prefer the party be for something rather than against anyone not GOP.

[Buzz Dixon]

Yes because only mouth breathing knuckle draggers would vote against Obama..."You know, you're not going to score any points if you keep feeding me straight lines."
-- Lord Julius in Dave Sim's CEREBUS

[CutterMike]

To be perfectly fair, yes, it does look like Obama's popularity hit a peak and is starting to go down. Whether that's going to be a trend or not (or if it's going to happen fast enough for McCain to win the election) is the question.Remember, McCain doesn't have to WIN -- he only has to get close enough for the Dirty Tricks team to STEAL.

...again...

[Buzz Dixon]

Yowza! This may be one of the best analysis of the two candidates I've read anywhere.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107553

Even if you don't agree with the writer's views, I think ya gotta admit he's done his homework!

[Charles RB]

Oh look, Palin's committed fraud. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel)

ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Gov. Sarah Palin charged the state for her children to travel with her, including to events where they were not invited, and later amended expense reports to specify that they were on official business.

The charges included costs for hotel and commercial flights for three daughters to join Palin to watch their father in a snowmobile race, and a trip to New York, where the governor attended a five-hour conference and stayed with 17-year-old Bristol for five days and four nights in a luxury hotel.

In all, Palin has charged the state $21,012 for her three daughters' 64 one-way and 12 round-trip commercial flights since she took office in December 2006. In some other cases, she has charged the state for hotel rooms for the girls.

Alaska law does not specifically address expenses for a governor's children. The law allows for payment of expenses for anyone conducting official state business.

As governor, Palin justified having the state pay for the travel of her daughters — Bristol, 17; Willow, 14; and Piper, 7 — by noting on travel forms that the girls had been invited to attend or participate in events on the governor's schedule.

But some organizers of these events said they were surprised when the Palin children showed up uninvited, or said they agreed to a request by the governor to allow the children to attend.

Several other organizers said the children merely accompanied their mother and did not participate.

Now it's hard to begrudge a working mother ensuring she can spend time with the kids, but why the fuck are you charging your constituency for it and then lying about it?

[Buzz Dixon]

Oh look, Palin's committed fraud. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel)



Now it's hard to begrudge a working mother ensuring she can spend time with the kids, but why the fuck are you charging your constituency for it and then lying about it?Ooh! Ooh! Me! I know the answer to that one!

"Because she's a petty pathological liar."

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Oh look, Palin's committed fraud. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel)



Now it's hard to begrudge a working mother ensuring she can spend time with the kids, but why the fuck are you charging your constituency for it and then lying about it?

Well , gosh darn it I never knew how much money was going into those flights. And dog gone it , I'll make an effort to know better. I'm just a hockey mom who really doesn't know this stuff , don't ya know. And I'll try and know better next time , ya know.

[Briareos]

Biden 2 days ago admits that Obama isn't ready for a crisis:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/10/kristol_what_biden_implied.asp

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Biden 2 days ago admits that Obama isn't ready for a crisis:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/10/kristol_what_biden_implied.asp


It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking.... Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy....

Wow the man is a fucking psyhic ...who knew a President wouldn't be able to coast by and actually deal with something that happens.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Biden 2 days ago admits that Obama isn't ready for a crisis:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/10/kristol_what_biden_implied.asp


Sarah Palin handling Putin : "So I say to Todd , well why don't that Vladimer Putin guy take a chill pill , ya know. I don't know whats crawled up his you-know-what but where I come from we take care of it , doncha know ? Because were MAVERICKS . And were gonna show ole Putin , dog gone it , what us Mavericks can do !"

[Infra-Man]

Biden 2 days ago admits that Obama isn't ready for a crisis:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/10/kristol_what_biden_implied.asp

If I'm not mistaken, this is the full quotation:
BIDEN: Mark my words, within the next -- first six months of this administration, if we win, they're going to -- we're going to face a major international challenge, 'cause they're going to want to test him, just like they did John Kennedy, they're going to want to test him, and they're going to find out this guy's got steel in his spine.

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/biden-says-obam.html

How does having steel in one's spine mean he is not ready?

[Buzz Dixon]

Biden 2 days ago admits that Obama isn't ready for a crisis:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/10/kristol_what_biden_implied.asp...and you clutch desperately at straws while being swept over Niagra...

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If I'm not mistaken, this is the full quotation:


http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/10/biden-says-obam.html

How does having steel in one's spine mean he is not ready?

Maybe the steel has some kinda cracks in it...someone get Obama a doctor so they can make sure his back is steady enough.

[TomStillwell]

Less than two weeks to possibly becoming the next Vice President of the United States and Sarah Palin still doesn't know what a VP does.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/21/palin-vp-senate/

Q: Brandon Garcia wants to know, “What does the Vice President do?”

PALIN: That’s something that Piper would ask me! … They’re in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom.

[TomStillwell]

Remember that GOP manufactured story about the Obama campaign mistreating leftover flags after the Democratic National Convention? Remember how it supposedly demonstrated how unpatriotic the Democratics are but it ultimately proved to be false?

You'd think the McCain campaign would take much better care of their flag after making such a big stink...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/21/mccain-campaign-drags-ame_n_136575.html

[Crowley]

So far Powell's endorsement has given Obama a slight 1 point bump in the polls:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/

so far...

[Nick Soapdish]

By the way, for those who are interested, here's a list of what newspapers are endorsing Obama and McCain: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003875230

Right now, Obama leads 115-38.

I'm more surprised by the endorsements listed on Wikipedia.

McCain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_John_McCain_presidential_campaign_endorsem ents)

Obama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_endorsements)

I don't care about most of these people. Most of them are politicians endorsing the person in their party or celebrities.

But what really jumps out at me is the number of groups that have endorsed McCain (and been added to the site).

I'll go ahead and list them here.

The National Rifle Association

Obama has 33. Part of that is just laziness on the part of McCain supporters. Surely, they can find some sort of pro-life organizations that have endorsed him. Or the Discovery Institute. Heck, I know that the Maine Snowmobile Association endorsed them so add that.

Um, because they don't believe their tax cut should come at the expense of others?

Wonders of wonders, there are some lower-class people that don't begrudge those that do well

(reading this site, you get the impression that those in the lower class are always looking to stick it to the upper class....)

Nuts. Michael already beat me to the joke.

Would it be unfair to mention the Palin and Couric comedy double act here?

Only if you consider Palin a major supporter of McCain.

A lot of former GOP voters would prefer the party be for something rather than against anyone not GOP.

Yeah, the Democrats have run into that problem more than a few times, most recently in 2004. The real problem is that they're for tons of different things and can't focus.

[CutterMike]

Ooh! Ooh! Me! I know the answer to that one!

"Because she's a petty pathological liar."
...Now, let's not always see the same hands...!

[EdContradictory]

Biden 2 days ago admits that Obama isn't ready for a crisis:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/10/kristol_what_biden_implied.asp
So, when you cry yourself to sleep on Election Night, will it be loud, body-heaving sobs or delicate, quiet whimpers?

Just curious.

[FalconX2000]

In North Carolina, which has developed into a battleground state, nearly 500,000 voters have cast absentee ballots, according to the State Board of Elections. Officials at the State Board of Elections expect to surpass numbers from the 2004 election, when 700,000 people voted early.

Fifty-six percent, of those voting early in North Carolina were Democrats, while 28 percent were Republicans and 16 percent were not registered as a member of a party, the elections board said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/21/early.voting/?iref=mpstoryview

North Carolina looks good so far.:smile:

[Infra-Man]

Less than two weeks to possibly becoming the next Vice President of the United States and Sarah Palin still doesn't know what a VP does.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/21/palin-vp-senate/

I was talking to my mom about Sarah Palin earlier. One of the main reasons she dislikes Sarah Palin is that she is ignorant not just of foreign policy but also domestic policy and the fundamentals of the U.S. government and U.S. history.

My mom said that when she applied for citizenship, she had to learn about the three branches of government, The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and important bits of American history. She'd looked through practice tests and studied them and memorized facts about major historical figures and events. When she became a citizen, this knowledge enriched her love for this country because she knew about the government's basic functions and those seminal moments and ideas upon which the United States was built. My dad had the same enriching experience when he got his citizenship. For both my parents, this country became a part of them.

To paraphrase my mom on Palin, "If you don't know history or the basics of how the country works, how can you honestly say you love America?"

[TomStillwell]

Sarah Palin still doesn't understand what the Vice President does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l40nrw3V3GA



I was talking to my mom about Sarah Palin earlier. One of the main reasons she dislikes Sarah Palin is that she is ignorant not just of foreign policy but also domestic policy and the fundamentals of the U.S. government and U.S. history.

My mom said that when she applied for citizenship, she had to learn about the three branches of government, The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and important bits of American history. She'd looked through practice tests and studied them and memorized facts about major historical figures and events. When she became a citizen, this knowledge enriched her love for this country because she knew about the government's basic functions and those seminal moments and ideas upon which the United States was built. My dad had the same enriching experience when he got his citizenship. For both my parents, this country became a part of them.

To paraphrase my mom on Palin, "If you don't know history or the basics of how the country works, how can you honestly say you love America?"

Good to see people are reading my posts...:frown:

[Infra-Man]

Good to see people are reading my posts...:frown:

Fixed. Sorry... I need to pay more attention and have less browser windows open.

EDIT:
To atone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kO9TtHYzQ

and $10 says someone probably already posted this

[Buzz Dixon]

My mom said that when she applied for citizenship, she had to learn about the three branches of government, The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and important bits of American history. My mother-in-law barely speaks English but is a naturalized citizen and probably knows more about the U.S. Government and Constitution than Sarah Palin does.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

The Daily Show decided to go to Alaska and find out what Wasilla´s mayor does that would qualify her for prez.
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Not much.:biggrin:

[kingdom2000]

Keith Olbermann had a "campaign comment" about Palin having FOUR chances to get it right. 4! You would have thought after the first embarassment she would have made an effort to get it right. But after 4 attempts she remains completely clueless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EVVI6_k8bg