2008 U.S. Presidential Election Mega thread

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Quoted for truth.

Plain and simple Obama needs to talk to the people. He's needs to say "This is who I am, this is why I want to be president, and this is what I will do to fix America."

Anything else is just a sideshow. People are tired of sideshows. They don't care if their favorite entertainer endorses a candidate. They've been lied to for eight years and their country has been mishandled. Their houses are in trouble along with their retirement funds. They just want to know if Obama is the real deal. They want to trust him but it's hard given that what has gone before.

This needs to be his fireside chat.


Heres the thing.... he's gonna have 30 minutes to fill. Its gonna have to be a hell of a chat. At some point unless he delivers something in those 30 minutes to keep eyeballs on him , the channel will get flipped.

They could likely have people ...every day people show up in this special and tell why they are supporting Barack Obama . They could have a very cool Rock/Presidential rally type thing here. Plus I think people already know Barack Obama is popular with Hollywood and the enertainment industry....he has his own music video...

Yes We Can : Music Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY

[Buzz Dixon]

Heres the thing.... he's gonna have 30 minutes to fill. Its gonna have to be a hell of a chat. At some point unless he delivers something in those 30 minutes to keep eyeballs on him , the channel will get flipped.http://separate-equal.net/main/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/obama-shark-oops-too-cool.jpg

[SUPERECWFAN1]

http://separate-equal.net/main/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/obama-shark-oops-too-cool.jpg

Heh.... well odds are Obama would likely get applauded for jumping the shark with a skateboard ....while John McCain complains Obama never really jumped it and cries like a baby when it was CGI made !

[TomStillwell]

Heres the thing.... he's gonna have 30 minutes to fill. Its gonna have to be a hell of a chat. At some point unless he delivers something in those 30 minutes to keep eyeballs on him , the channel will get flipped.

They could likely have people ...every day people show up in this special and tell why they are supporting Barack Obama . They could have a very cool Rock/Presidential rally type thing here. Plus I think people already know Barack Obama is popular with Hollywood and the enertainment industry....he has his own music video...

Yes We Can : Music Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY

That is the absolutely worst idea.

The first presidential debate drew a low viewership of 52.4 million. The second debate jumped up over 10 million viewers to 63.2. Why? Because the economy sank much lower between the two debates. People tuned in wanting answers to their problems. So they tuned in to an hour and thirty minutes of pretty dry debate and stuck through it all.

And what did Barack do afterwards? He stayed to talk with people who had questions. Don't you think that might have had a big effect on an undecided voter? Or maybe he should have had Bruce Springstein sing to them?

They aren't going to care if Brad Pitt comes on to introduce the Black Eyed Peas or whether Oprah says how much she loves Obama. They want a leader to tell them what his plan is to heal our nation. Anything else is insulting.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

That is the absolutely worst idea.

The first presidential debate drew a low viewership of 52.4 million. The second debate jumped up over 10 million viewers to 63.2. Why? Because the economy sank much lower between the two debates. People tuned in wanting answers to their problems. So they tuned in to an hour and thirty minutes of pretty dry debate and stuck through it all.

And the Sarah Palin/Joe Biden did an even better viewer rating. Because people wanted to see if Palin would do something crazy. Thats why they stuck an hour and half and watched it.

And debates is taking questions , answering...debating each others points. Here its gonna be one guy ...for 30 minutes. Its gonna have to have something there...to keep people watching. With debates you had 2 people...argueing with each other.


And what did Barack do afterwards? He stayed to talk with people who had questions. Don't you think that might have had a big effect on an undecided voter? Or maybe he should have had Bruce Springstein sing to them?

They aren't going to care if Brad Pitt comes on to introduce the Black Eyed Peas or whether Oprah says how much she loves Obama. They want a leader to tell them what his plan is to heal our nation. Anything else is insulting.

The un-decided voters will likely have 3 debates to pick someone. Being honest...its 30 minutes to fill and its gonna be on every network. They had best program something that covers what Obama says and enertains. Since its not a debate and they need to keep the eyeballs on Obama.

[Kevinroc]

That is the absolutely worst idea.

The first presidential debate drew a low viewership of 52.4 million. The second debate jumped up over 10 million viewers to 63.2. Why? Because the economy sank much lower between the two debates. People tuned in wanting answers to their problems. So they tuned in to an hour and thirty minutes of pretty dry debate and stuck through it all.

And what did Barack do afterwards? He stayed to talk with people who had questions. Don't you think that might have had a big effect on an undecided voter? Or maybe he should have had Bruce Springstein sing to them?

They aren't going to care if Brad Pitt comes on to introduce the Black Eyed Peas or whether Oprah says how much she loves Obama. They want a leader to tell them what his plan is to heal our nation. Anything else is insulting.

The first presidential debate was on a Friday. Friday and Saturday tend to be the worst nights to schedule programs for TV.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Wow.... John Stewart had a great clip of Fox News after Tuesday debate and Obama's poll numbers climbing even more ! Included was parts where Obama/Ayers , Obama's gains in battle ground states being linked to voter fraud , Obama and Kenya , Obama as a terrorist , Aaron Tipin singing "DRILL HERE , DRILL NOW !" , and how Newsweek is a tool for Obama in making Sarah Palin have wrinkles on the cover !

John Stewart : "Were Fox News and were mentally un-balanced."

[Infra-Man]

Heres the thing.... he's gonna have 30 minutes to fill. Its gonna have to be a hell of a chat. At some point unless he delivers something in those 30 minutes to keep eyeballs on him , the channel will get flipped.

They could likely have people ...every day people show up in this special and tell why they are supporting Barack Obama . They could have a very cool Rock/Presidential rally type thing here. Plus I think people already know Barack Obama is popular with Hollywood and the enertainment industry....he has his own music video...

Yes We Can : Music Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY

No. Bad idea. Anything that can be interpreted as a premature celebration would be foolish and viewed by many as self-aggrandizing, cocky, and childish.

Best thing for him to do, like Tom and kingdom said, is to talk to the American people. Give the American people what McCain hasn't been able to deliver on for awhile: straight talk.

People are hurting right now and they want to have their problems addressed and find someone who can reassure them that they will endure through tough times. The last thing they need to see is someone who bought network airtime just to grandstand and hang out with people who won't be worrying about their finances.

[TomStillwell]

And the Sarah Palin/Joe Biden did an even better viewer rating. Because people wanted to see if Palin would do something crazy. Thats why they stuck an hour and half and watched it.

And debates is taking questions , answering...debating each others points. Here its gonna be one guy ...for 30 minutes. Its gonna have to have something there...to keep people watching. With debates you had 2 people...argueing with each other.




The un-decided voters will likely have 3 debates to pick someone. Being honest...its 30 minutes to fill and its gonna be on every network. They had best program something that covers what Obama says and enertains. Since its not a debate and they need to keep the eyeballs on Obama.

I don't recall saying he'd need to be talking for 30 minutes. I did say he didn't need the circus act that you're suggesting.

Personally, I'd spend about ten minutes on a short documentary on who Obama is and where he came from. His life story. Followed by an outline of how he'd go about fixing the economy. I'd end with his signature inspiring speech.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

No. Bad idea. Anything that can be interpreted as a premature celebration would be foolish and viewed by many as self-aggrandizing, cocky, and childish.

Best thing for him to do, like Tom and kingdom said, is to talk to the American people. Give the American people what McCain hasn't been able to deliver on for awhile: straight talk.

People are hurting right now and they want to have their problems addressed and find someone who can reassure them that they will endure through tough times. The last thing they need to see is someone who bought network airtime just to grandstand and hang out with people who won't be worrying about their finances.

At this point I think a lot of people will likely know that Obama and the enertainment industry is pretty close. I don't think they'd mind it ...since well... they need something to make them feel better. And mixed in with Obama's good speeches , his straight talk... well this program would be the best.

I don't recall saying he'd need to be talking for 30 minutes. I did say he didn't need the circus act that you're suggesting.

Ha ...well the circus is fun...

Personally, I'd spend about ten minutes on a short documentary on who Obama is and where he came from. His life story. Followed by an outline of how he'd go about fixing the economy. I'd end with his signature inspiring speech.

Now being honest....how'd I program this 30 minute show...(and using his biography is a good touch)

Intro : The Change music video....

Obama biography (15 minutes) : His early life , the struggles he had as a kid growing up with a dream. How he finds himself in Harvard Law School. How he helped people out on the South Side. Cut in with people discussing how Obama helped them at times.

Joe Biden speaks about Obama and how impressed he is by him as a young man.... (couple minutes....)

Michelle Obama and Barack discuss their kids and raising kids in todays world. How they want children to have healthcare ect ect.

Bruce Springsteen talks ... about the common man ...sings an un-plugged song...

Obama finishes the show off delivering a speech , outlining his future for America . How we can make it. (End of show....)


Ok ...its 30 minutes so it kills my Rock n Roll Political Rally !:tongue:

[Lester C.]

Does anyone else think the writing is on the wall for Sarah Palin. McCain is clearly desprate right now and trying everything to see what sticks. My prediction is that he's going to go with a new vp soon.

[Nick Soapdish]

It's not like Obama needs the entire nation to tune in. The convention was the political chance to showboat for the voters. This is a chance to get serious, give specific answers and of course, the speech.

Obviously, the debates and the convention were also opportunities to give specific answers, but here he'll have the opportunity to steer the topic exactly as he wants it and it won't give McCain very much time for a response.

Wasn't he planning on doing this during the primary against Clinton as well?

[Kyuubi]

Has that ever happened?



And if so, has it ever worked?

[Karl J Barnes]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/ap_on_el_pr/palin_troopergate

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Trying to head off a potentially embarrassing state ethics report on GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, campaign officials released their own report Thursday that clears her of any wrongdoing.

ADVERTISEMENT

Sen. John McCain's running mate is the subject of a legislative investigation into whether she abused her power as governor by firing her public safety commissioner. The commissioner, Walter Monegan, says he was dismissed in July for resisting pressure from Palin's husband, Todd Palin, and numerous top aides to fire state trooper Mike Wooten, Palin's former brother-in-law.

Lawmakers are expected to release their own findings Friday. Campaign officials have yet to see that report — the result of an investigation that began before she was tapped as McCain's running mate — but said the investigation has falsely portrayed a legitimate policy dispute between a governor and her commissioner as something inappropriate.


Hmmm....well, isn't that nice of McCain's staff releasing a report about something that hasn't been reported yet.So I guess, we needn't bother with the offical report.

[BnL]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/ap_on_el_pr/palin_troopergate



Hmmm....well, isn't that nice of McCain's staff releasing a report about something that hasn't been reported yet.So I guess, we needn't bother with the offical report.

LOL! It's like a screwball comedy come to life.

[Evan Waters]

Does anyone else think the writing is on the wall for Sarah Palin. McCain is clearly desprate right now and trying everything to see what sticks. My prediction is that he's going to go with a new vp soon.

It would be impossible to sell the public on anyone new in this short a space, and it would make his campaign look even more flustered and unfocused. I doubt that'll happen barring some HUGE development in Troopergate.

[Buzz Dixon]

Does anyone else think the writing is on the wall for Sarah Palin. McCain is clearly desprate right now and trying everything to see what sticks. My prediction is that he's going to go with a new vp soon.Unless she drops the N-bomb and/or is accused/indicted of ethics violation (not impossible since her hubby just 'fessed up to doing all those things Sarah said nobody in her family had ever done), McCain and the GOP is stuck with her. To drop her at this stage would be disastrous; they'd only do it if she became an even bigger liability.

[FalconX2000]

Has that ever happened?



And if so, has it ever worked?

http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE4989SV20081010?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10112

[the4thpip]

Getting ugly... getting ugly...

http://fishwars.blogspot.com/2008/10/ugly-face-of-racism.html

And in a microcosm of the tensions underlying this presidential race, on Monday, the Daily Quill published a letter to the editor that said in part: “This is a message for those responsible for the offensive, scurrilous billboard south of Mustion Creek on the west side of U.S. 63 — Shame on you! Have you no honor? Such a tasteless display merely reinforces the wide-spread belief that Ozarkers are ignorant country bumpkins. What must travelers think of us?” Another reader responded to that letter on Wednesday, writing, “To the person who sent the ‘letter to the editor’ in the Monday edition of the Daily Quill: What was erroneous about the message on the sign?”

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/09/billboard_obama/index.html

[the4thpip]

The questioner from the town hall debate whom McCain was condescending towards replied:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1523335.aspx

How did I feel about Sen. McCain stating “You probably never heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac before this.”
Well Senator, I actually did. I like to think of myself as a fairly intelligent person. I have a bachelor degree in Political Science from Tennessee State, so I try to keep myself up to date with current affairs. I have a Master degree in Legal Studies from Southern Illinois University, a few years in law school, and I am currently pursuing a Master in Public Administration from the University of Memphis. In defense of the Senator from Arizona I would say he is an older guy, and may have made an underestimation of my age. Honest mistake. However, it could be because I am a young African-American male. Whatever the case may be it was somewhat condescending regardless of my age to make an assumption regarding whether I was knowledgeable about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

[the4thpip]

Hey, remember Jim Gibbons, the guy who was elected governor of Nevada in spite of admitting to getting drunk with a cocktail waitress and then making her drive home drunk, though he did not admit the sexual harassment she claimed?

Turns out he has a lousy work ethic, too! (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/oct/05/where-does-gibbons-work-apparently-not-his-desk/)

[the4thpip]

Meet Sarah Palin’s radical right-wing pals

Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin’s political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. “Her door was open,” says Chryson — and still is.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/

[Charles RB]

My prediction is that he's going to go with a new vp soon.

I think he's left it too late - it'll be obvious to voters that he's desperate and clutching at straws. He's backed himself into a corner here.

And if he's willing to pull a blatantly dodgy move like releasing their own report on Troopergate before seeing the official one, he's chosen to stick with her until the end.

[Lester C.]

I think he's left it too late - it'll be obvious to voters that he's desperate and clutching at straws. He's backed himself into a corner here.

And if he's willing to pull a blatantly dodgy move like releasing their own report on Troopergate before seeing the official one, he's chosen to stick with her until the end.

I know what you are saying is logical. But according to the polls all the white women voters McCain gained with Palin, which was something like a twenty percent, left him and are now back in Obama's camp. At this point Palin brings nothing to the table and is a huge liability as everyone, rightly or wrongly, perceives her to be a right wing nut.

[the4thpip]

I know what you are saying is logical. But according to the polls all the white women voters McCain gained with Palin, which was something like a twenty percent, left him and are now back in Obama's camp. At this point Palin brings nothing to the table and is a huge liability as everyone, rightly or wrongly, perceives her to be a right wing nut.

They might have her killed and make it look like Biden did it! :eek:

[the4thpip]

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/mccain-beg.jpg

McCain campaign is asking for donations above the legal limit now.

http://philfiles.blogspot.com/2008/10/mccain-peddling-at-soup-lines.html

[Infra-Man]

Does anyone else think the writing is on the wall for Sarah Palin. McCain is clearly desprate right now and trying everything to see what sticks. My prediction is that he's going to go with a new vp soon.

If he does that just three weeks away from election day, he's basically done.

It would epitomize just how erratic his campaign has become and show that Palin truly was a stunt, and a poorly vetted stunt at that. In addition McCain would lose the wingnuts, fanboys, and yahoos who like Palin.

However, I would love to see Hugh Hewitt, Sean Hannity, and the rest of the people who've been defending the Palin pick with their jaws on the floor, scrambling madly to find their approved talking points.

[FalconX2000]

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/mccain-beg.jpg

McCain campaign is asking for donations above the legal limit now.

http://philfiles.blogspot.com/2008/10/mccain-peddling-at-soup-lines.html

The contribution asking group is a branch of the RNC. There's a different donation limit for them than the candidate's actual campaign right?

[KevinTBrown]

All of a sudden the Republican base is getting terrifying....

http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=2&threadid=1586758

Especially when you read this in the article: There is also the belief that taking out Obama is the only way to win.

"Taking out"..??? :confused: I sure hope they don't mean what I think it means....

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Question:

What's up with the Obama ACORN thing?

[the4thpip]

President Palin's Inaugural Address (http://www.236.com/blog/w/sean_carman/president_palins_inaugural_add_9463.php)

[TCJohnson]

Question:

What's up with the Obama ACORN thing?

ACORN is a liberal community activist group that try to help low to moderate income families.

ACORN started a campaign to get people in it's community to register to vote. Since they operate in neighborhoods with strong democrat populations, Obama's campaign donated money to ACORN to support this voters registration initiative.

The problem is now that it looks like ACORN is committing voter fraud. Thousands of the voter registrations they are handing in are fake.

This was really stupid of Obama's campaign to begin with since members of ACORN were arrested for voter fraud in the 2004 and 2006 elections.

[FalconX2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE66jjj08zE

...Fox News is sometimes too funny for me to be angry with it.:biggrin:

[the4thpip]

The Golden Girl about the Harpy of Hearts:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Golden_Girl_vs_Palin.html?showall

[FalconX2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq7boiBsAt4

This man seems to own a private gas station. He delibrately sells gas cheaper than the company price and the store is decked with Obama memorobilia at 'cost price', asking customers to support the candidate.

Give the man a prize. Or a cigar. Something.

[the4thpip]

Don't Mess With Michigan, Part VI - This Time, it's Personal!

GRAND RAPIDS -- He endorsed John McCain in the presidential primary, but now former Republican Gov. William Milliken is expressing doubts about his party's nominee.

"He is not the McCain I endorsed," said Milliken, reached at his Traverse City home Thursday. "He keeps saying, 'Who is Barack Obama?' I would ask the question, 'Who is John McCain?' because his campaign has become rather disappointing to me.

"I'm disappointed in the tenor and the personal attacks on the part of the McCain campaign, when he ought to be talking about the issues."

Milliken, a lifelong Republican, is among some past leaders from the party's moderate wing voicing reservations and, in some cases, opposition to McCain's candidacy.

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html

[Stressfactor]

Don't Mess With Michigan, Part VI - This Time, it's Personal!



http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html
Sounds like the Republican splintering is starting to show. One camp wants MORE personal attacks and wants McCain to get vicious and dirty and another camp thinks the personal attacks need to stop and want McCain to focus on the issues.

I remember a while back a few Republican pundits talking about deep divisions in the party and actually saying that a Democratic Presidency might be what the party needed to take some "time off" and decide what kind of a party it REALLY wanted to be.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I remember a while back a few Republican pundits talking about deep divisions in the party and actually saying that a Democratic Presidency might be what the party needed to take some "time off" and decide what kind of a party it REALLY wanted to be.
Yeah, the Republican party seems to be actualy two parties rolled into one, the moderates and the far right.
I´m somewhat sorry for the moderate voices who I really DO hope are a majority, since they seem to have been smothered by the loud extremists.

I really hope that someone at some stage steps up and says "ENOUGH with this bile, This isn´t us."

[Infra-Man]

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/darkow.jpg

[Stressfactor]

Here's an interesting article on what the Republican party really needs to do to turn itself around. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/8/225929/625

[kingdom2000]

ACORN is a liberal community activist group that try to help low to moderate income families.

ACORN started a campaign to get people in it's community to register to vote. Since they operate in neighborhoods with strong democrat populations, Obama's campaign donated money to ACORN to support this voters registration initiative.

The problem is now that it looks like ACORN is committing voter fraud. Thousands of the voter registrations they are handing in are fake.

This was really stupid of Obama's campaign to begin with since members of ACORN were arrested for voter fraud in the 2004 and 2006 elections.

I bet you dollars to donuts that the idiots running ACORN had an incentive system in place based on number of registrants. The problem with this is it encourages people to not do their job correctly and instead focus on building their numbers exclusivily. The net result - its easier to sign up dead people then it is to go door to door and sign up live people and get paid more to do it.

Its the same reason that Wall Street is failing. They created an incentive system where the goal was to sign up home buyers, any home buyers, for any reason so their numbers would go up. The higher the numbers, the bigger the bonuses.

The problem, of course, is when the focus is only on numbers, quality control goes right out the window.

In this case though that companies stupidity justifies the republican parties' moronic stance that the only voter fraud that occurs is the kind where a person votes more then once or as another person even though common sense will tell you that for that method to be any good you would need hundreds if not thousands of people conspiring together to make such a make believe concept ever work in a way to meaningful impact most elections.

[PatrickG]

I bet you dollars to donuts that the idiots running ACORN had an incentive system in place based on number of registrants.

I'm a bit pressed for time right now but I just wanted to put forth a few rapidfire thoughts.

The incident was in Chicago, yes? Obama is ahead in the polls and in no danger of losing Illinois.

Consider how deliberate and tactical the Obama campaign is. They beat Hillary by pulling votes out of places that were less likely to vote or by generally outmaneuvering her.

Even now, they're forcing the McCain campaign to spend money in solid red states like Georgia, using their cash advantage to spread McCain thin.

I remember hearing recently how Obama is spending HUGE amounts in some small towns that can tip the balance in states with proportional distribution, to avoid a tie.

The fraudulent parties at ACORN were incredibly sloppy, not just registering dead and homeless people but registering RESTAURANTS and BRAND NAMES as voters. And using identical signatures.

Now this is either gross incompetence by someone seeking a commission (possible) or IMO a deliberate act of sabotage by rogue anti-Obama elements.

Obama stood to gain nothing if they succeeded and they seem almost deliberately positioned to fail and be exposed.

I'm not going to say it's Republicans. It could be racists or Hillary supporters. (Or all three-in-one.)

However, a tactic like this is standard operating procedure in politics. Nixon hired fake communists to distribute his congressional opponent's literature and endorse his opponent in the 50s.

My dad was a campaign manager back in the 70s for a congressman and I grew up hearing about tricks like this. One classic one is to get someone with your opponent's last name on the ballot to confuse voters and split the vote.

There are a million of these tricks. Enacting sloppy voter fraud on behalf of someone you don't like is a very common dirty trick.

[TCJohnson]

The incident was in Chicago, yes? Obama is ahead in the polls and in no danger of losing Illinois.


Actually, this was in Lake County, Indiana (where Gary, Indiana is). THey are also under investigation for Voter Fraud in Cuyahoga County, Ohio; Las Vega, Nevada and Missouri.

[kingdom2000]

In other news, its looks like Mr. Palin is falling on the sword (http://itn.co.uk/news/5f7252c8a6830c9eb08460238753be50.html) for the Mrs. Palin in "troopergate".

Only problem with this tactic, it doesn't really speak well of Palin's "extensive executive experience". Let's see first in Wasilla as mayor she needed a city administrator because she couldn't handle the day to day duties.

Now, apparently the Mr. Palin was apparently the real governor of Alaska, not the Mrs. Tsk.

[4thHorseman]

Vote for Barack OSAMA oopsie

Oopsie on Absentee ballot (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/10/new-york-countys-ballots-print-%e2%80%98barack-osama%e2%80%99/)

[kingdom2000]

A sign of the lack of intelligence in the average diehard McCain supporter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us

[TomStillwell]

Here's a great behind the scenes look from the DNC.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/4days

[LtMarvel]

Some poster on another site pointed out that ACORN had about 250 bad names out of 500,000 turned in from the Kansas City area.

That's not fraud. Heck, I'd say that's low compared to any signature gathering campaign.

[kingdom2000]

Some poster on another site pointed out that ACORN had about 250 bad names out of 500,000 turned in from the Kansas City area.

That's not fraud. Heck, I'd say that's low compared to any signature gathering campaign.

Personally I don't care one way or another. Unless investigators can find evidence that ACORN is also conspiring to gather a few thousand people to fake being these dead people and business' to cast votes then its all just noise that has no meaningful goal.

Unless those bad names become a bad vote (highly unlikely) then the only thing that was accomplished was to waste the time of the processing of real registrants which only hurts Obama and helps McCain. But it sure does give fuel for the idiots that don't know better and don't think it through.

What will probably happen is republican election officials will use this as an excuse to "accidently" disenfranchise thousands of real registrants by claiming they where swept up in the ACORN investigation.

[Charles RB]

Only problem with this tactic, it doesn't really speak well of Palin's "extensive executive experience".

Yeah, I wouldn't be happy with the second most powerful person in the world's biggest superpower being someone you could "keep in the dark" that easily.

[Michael P]

Some poster on another site pointed out that ACORN had about 250 bad names out of 500,000 turned in from the Kansas City area.

That's not fraud. Heck, I'd say that's low compared to any signature gathering campaign.

Hell, if they hit a frat house, that's all of them right there.

[MacQuarrie]

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080929/NEWS01/80929037/1006/news01

Lawd, I hope I'm not related to Ms Weber.
And one thing that always kills me about this email (remember that GOP mayor who was also in the news for forwarding it this week):


Duh! You'd think that the people who this email is aimed at would know enough about their little fantasy book to realize it was Jews first, then Christians, then Muslims. And that there can't be a mention of Muslims in the bible, as little as of refrigerators or Marvel comics!!

There are passages that are supposed to be prophetic, and those can be interpreted to refer to things that didn't yet exist.

For example, during the description of the time of Tribulation, there's a mention of "the merchants of Tarshish" lamenting that the war is interfering with their business, that they can't sell their wares. "Tarshish" means "far-off land" and is usually understood to refer to the lands beyond the Strait of Gibraltar, generally Great Britain and her colonies. When looked at that way, the passage sounds a lot like it's describing the US, even though it didn't exist then.

But I digress.

Any serious Bible scholar will tell you that the Anti-Christ (assuming one's theology recognizes this term as describing a particular person and not a philosophy) will be someone from one of the nations that comprised the Roman Empire (See Daniel); there's not a single verse that suggests he will be a Muslim.

Also, the Prophetic passages always identify people by geographic terms, not socio-political-religious.

Christians who talk out their ass about things they don't understand, or just flat-out make up stuff and pretend it's in the Bible, just kinda piss me off.

[KevinTBrown]

It's over for McCain and Palin.

The report was released tonight for "Troopergate". She was found to have broken state law in abusing her power as governor in firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_el_pr/palin_troopergate

No sanctions, however, and no charges filed... as yet. That's up to Alaska's State's Attorney.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

It appears John McCain is trying to make his supporters accept Barack Obama as President. A week of events where people yelled KILL HIM , OFF WITH HIS HEAD and other comments....McCain finally tried to cool down the mob rally. Saying that Barack Obama is a good person and that he can lead the country. This got him booed by his own crowd.

In other news ...and this ones a bit in the middle. It could be true....and it could be false.....West Virginia could be going Obama. According to a poll the state is leaning towards Obama with a 50%-42% . This of course has other people claiming the poll could be wrong since a month ago a poll had John McCain ahead 50%-42%.

[Charles RB]

The report was released tonight for "Troopergate". She was found to have broken state law in abusing her power as governor in firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan.

No sanctions, however, and no charges filed... as yet. That's up to Alaska's State's Attorney.

Could she concievably be kicked out of office for this, or barred from being VP?

[Stressfactor]

It appears John McCain is trying to make his supporters accept Barack Obama as President. A week of events where people yelled KILL HIM , OFF WITH HIS HEAD and other comments....McCain finally tried to cool down the mob rally. Saying that Barack Obama is a good person and that he can lead the country. This got him booed by his own crowd.

Seems to be more a case of "The chickens have come home to roost". Some of this isn't McCain's fault but rather the Republican party in general. After spending years coddling, accepting, and even condoning intolerant attitudes the Republicans have now lost control of their own party. The haters are seizing control and scaring away the moderate voices and independents who might lean conservative.

I think after this election is over the Repubs are really going to have to look at themselves and do quite a bit of spring cleaning.

The sad thing is that the ones spouting vitriol can't see that they're only shooting themselves in the collective foot. The more they look like intolerant hater loonies the fewer moderate, middle of the road, and independent people are going to be willing to vote for the party. The angrier they get the worse they look and they're too blinkered to even see this.

[KevinTBrown]

Could she concievably be kicked out of office for this, or barred from being VP?

Not quite..... but it does open her up for litigation.

[Jake V]

Could she concievably be kicked out of office for this, or barred from being VP?

She could be impeached as a Governor, but it wouldn't necessarily effect her being nominated for VP. A Presidential candidate could pick anyone to be their VP, whether or not they hold a public office.

[TomStillwell]

It appears John McCain is trying to make his supporters accept Barack Obama as President. A week of events where people yelled KILL HIM , OFF WITH HIS HEAD and other comments....McCain finally tried to cool down the mob rally. Saying that Barack Obama is a good person and that he can lead the country. This got him booed by his own crowd.

What a maverick!!!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

What a maverick!!!

"See what a MAVERICK I am ...I am such a Maverick I get booed by my own Republican rally ! They know what a MAVERICK i am !"

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Seems to be more a case of "The chickens have come home to roost". Some of this isn't McCain's fault but rather the Republican party in general. After spending years coddling, accepting, and even condoning intolerant attitudes the Republicans have now lost control of their own party. The haters are seizing control and scaring away the moderate voices and independents who might lean conservative.

I think after this election is over the Repubs are really going to have to look at themselves and do quite a bit of spring cleaning.

The sad thing is that the ones spouting vitriol can't see that they're only shooting themselves in the collective foot. The more they look like intolerant hater loonies the fewer moderate, middle of the road, and independent people are going to be willing to vote for the party. The angrier they get the worse they look and they're too blinkered to even see this.


When I hear all this fear and hatred, my mind goes back to the PUMAS.
Boy, they sure must be feeling right at home in their new club.

[Nick Soapdish]

I'm a bit pressed for time right now but I just wanted to put forth a few rapidfire thoughts.

The incident was in Chicago, yes? Obama is ahead in the polls and in no danger of losing Illinois.

Consider how deliberate and tactical the Obama campaign is. They beat Hillary by pulling votes out of places that were less likely to vote or by generally outmaneuvering her.

Even now, they're forcing the McCain campaign to spend money in solid red states like Georgia, using their cash advantage to spread McCain thin.

I remember hearing recently how Obama is spending HUGE amounts in some small towns that can tip the balance in states with proportional distribution, to avoid a tie.

The fraudulent parties at ACORN were incredibly sloppy, not just registering dead and homeless people but registering RESTAURANTS and BRAND NAMES as voters. And using identical signatures.

Now this is either gross incompetence by someone seeking a commission (possible) or IMO a deliberate act of sabotage by rogue anti-Obama elements.

Obama stood to gain nothing if they succeeded and they seem almost deliberately positioned to fail and be exposed.

I'm not going to say it's Republicans. It could be racists or Hillary supporters. (Or all three-in-one.)

However, a tactic like this is standard operating procedure in politics. Nixon hired fake communists to distribute his congressional opponent's literature and endorse his opponent in the 50s.

My dad was a campaign manager back in the 70s for a congressman and I grew up hearing about tricks like this. One classic one is to get someone with your opponent's last name on the ballot to confuse voters and split the vote.

There are a million of these tricks. Enacting sloppy voter fraud on behalf of someone you don't like is a very common dirty trick.

But a combination of stupidity and laziness is the simplest solution. What's the saying - never ascribe to malice what can be attributed to stupidity?

It may be a set-up, but absent evidence, I'm more inclined to think that it was just sloppiness by genuine ACORN members. But as LtMarvel points out, it might not be as big of an issue as it seems.

It's the biggest case of voter fraud ever with tens of thousands of fraudulent voter registrations. Or more. (I haven't seen a total, just lists of examples so I'm broadly estimating.)

But, it's also the biggest case of voter registration ever, claiming 1.3 million registrations. Proportionately, it may not be out of line with other voter registration drives and it sounds like it's considerably under the rate of write-ins on petition drives.

[rick]

I’m actually feeling a bit sorry for McCain right now.

Despite not wanting to see him win, I have never thought of him as anything but a decent man, and I have to wonder how he feels deep down inside about having to suck up to a part of the party that he despises and that despise him.

[TomStillwell]

I’m actually feeling a bit sorry for McCain right now.

Despite not wanting to see him win, I have never thought of him as anything but a decent man, and I have to wonder how he feels deep down inside about having to suck up to a part of the party that he despises and that despise him.

I'm sure he feels just fine with it. Nobody is forcing him to run for president and nobody is dictating how his campaign is run but himself.

McCain could have run an honorable campaign and not catered to anyone's beliefs but his own. But that's not good for winning and winning it seems is all that matters to him.

[Lester C.]

The election still up in the air, but man is McCain campaign coming off the rails. Any news of Demacrats comiting voter fraud in Ohio is being overshadowed by the report stating that Palin did abuse her power in troopergate.

[FalconX2000]

I'm sure he feels just fine with it. Nobody is forcing him to run for president and nobody is dictating how his campaign is run but himself.

McCain could have run an honorable campaign and not catered to anyone's beliefs but his own. But that's not good for winning and winning it seems is all that matters to him.

People do things they're not proud of all the time. And it happens more often the higher the stakes get.

There were lots of things you could have said about McCain before this presidential run, but exhibiting the behavior of a low blowing, desperate neocon wasn't one of them.

[Adam C]

Seems to be more a case of "The chickens have come home to roost". Some of this isn't McCain's fault but rather the Republican party in general. After spending years coddling, accepting, and even condoning intolerant attitudes the Republicans have now lost control of their own party. The haters are seizing control and scaring away the moderate voices and independents who might lean conservative.

I think after this election is over the Repubs are really going to have to look at themselves and do quite a bit of spring cleaning.

I agree completely. After seeing the party build a brand for itself by demonising the other side we're seeing the fruits of that labour which is watching a public meltdown from the bigots its either catered to or nutured because they won't get their way. And justifies everything I've been saying about the role that the likes of Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, and supposedly respectable National Review have been playing in American political culture.

[Mermaid]

The election still up in the air, but man is McCain campaign coming off the rails. Any news of Demacrats comiting voter fraud in Ohio is being overshadowed by the report stating that Palin did abuse her power in troopergate.

That Palin abuse of power thing was on our news tonight here. I don't think i've even seen her before on our news reports. I only recognized her because of YABS!

[ShaunN]

Dear Friends,

A couple of points: first, I totally agree with the "chickens coming home to roost" argument. The Republican Party has been assiduously courting and nurturing the most extreme and intolerant elements in the US for the past three decades, but especially over the past 8 years. The fact that these people are now melting down as they stand to lose power is not surprising. The elements that are doing this publically are the sort of Neanderthal wing of the party - the group who are ignorant, easily manipulated, and full of fear. Their screams that Obama is a "terrorist" and an "Arab" and a "Muslim" (and it's telling that there is, apparently, something wrong with the last two!) is probably really shorthand for "he's black". These people are more overtly dangerous than the middle-aged, power-obsessed sharks who are running things behind the scene. The literal bankruptcy of their economic philosophies could not have come at a better time.

This being said, I do feel sorry for McCain. As arrogant and privileged as he sometimes seems, I don't think that his natural inclination is to conduct this kind of campaign. But he is an example of having sold his soul for power. Aren't there lots of movies and books about exactly this kind of Faustian bargain in the world of politics? He has worked hard to get where he is and has been written off more than once. In politics, anything can happen and he is hanging in with that in mind. But the fact is that he has shown himself willing to do almost anything to win, and that decision must have cost him some part of his soul and self-respect.

Sincerely,

Shaun

[Infra-Man]

I don't feel sorry for McCain right now since he sold his principles of his own volition.

It was his choice to hire the same people who smeared him in 2000 to run his 2008 campaign. It was his choice to go negative, inspiring for the last week a frightening, rabid, frothing vitriol at his rallies, stoking the flames of ignorance and paranoia (even conjuring the specter of racism and xenophobia). It was his choice to select Palin as his running mate even though she was poorly vetted (bet he wishes he went with Lieberman).

A man of principles would never have hired the same people who gleefully dragged him through the mud and shit just eight years ago. A man of principles would never have appealed to the fears of otherness in his base, and would be running an issue-based campaign rather than a purely negative one; that man would have excoriated his own running mate for playing up people's hate rather than inspiring people's hopes. A man of principles would have fought for his first choice for a running mate and steered his own ship rather than letting rats on the wheel, driving his whole vessel into the nearest iceberg (from which one could see Russia).

Yes, he's trying to calm down his crowds finally, which is good, but earlier in the week both he and Palin had absolutely no problem whipping them into a frenzy. Too little, too late, too disingenuous to be worth anything now.

I guess I don't feel sorry for John McCain but merely pity him because he currently comes across as an angry, pathetic old man.

[FalconX2000]

I don't feel sorry for McCain right now since he sold his principles of his own volition.

It was his choice to hire the same people who smeared him in 2000 to run his 2008 campaign. It was his choice to go negative, inspiring for the last week a frightening, rabid, frothing vitriol at his rallies, stoking the flames of ignorance and paranoia (even conjuring the specter of racism and xenophobia). It was his choice to select Palin as his running mate even though she was poorly vetted (bet he wishes he went with Lieberman).

A man of principles would never have hired the same people who gleefully dragged him through the mud and shit just eight years ago. A man of principles would never have appealed to the fears of otherness in his base, and would be running an issue-based campaign rather than a purely negative one; that man would have excoriated his own running mate for playing up people's hate rather than inspiring people's hopes. A man of principles would have fought for his first choice for a running mate and steered his own ship rather than letting rats on the wheel, driving his whole vessel into the nearest glacier (from which one could see Russia).

Yes, he's trying to calm down his crowds finally, which is good, but earlier in the week both he and Palin had absolutely no problem whipping them into a frenzy. Too little, too late, too disingenuous to be worth anything now.

I guess I don't feel sorry for John McCain but merely pity him because he currently comes across as an angry, pathetic old man.


I'm not familiar with any coastal or ocean based glaciers.:tongue:

[Infra-Man]

I'm not familiar with any coastal or ocean based glaciers.:tongue:

D'oh. I meant iceberg. Can I get a mulligan? I just woke up half an hour ago?

[sk716]

There are passages that are supposed to be prophetic, and those can be interpreted to refer to things that didn't yet exist.

For example, during the description of the time of Tribulation, there's a mention of "the merchants of Tarshish" lamenting that the war is interfering with their business, that they can't sell their wares. "Tarshish" means "far-off land" and is usually understood to refer to the lands beyond the Strait of Gibraltar, generally Great Britain and her colonies. When looked at that way, the passage sounds a lot like it's describing the US, even though it didn't exist then.

But I digress.

Any serious Bible scholar will tell you that the Anti-Christ (assuming one's theology recognizes this term as describing a particular person and not a philosophy) will be someone from one of the nations that comprised the Roman Empire (See Daniel); there's not a single verse that suggests he will be a Muslim.

Also, the Prophetic passages always identify people by geographic terms, not socio-political-religious.

Christians who talk out their ass about things they don't understand, or just flat-out make up stuff and pretend it's in the Bible, just kinda piss me off.

The widely held belief of the Anti-Christ being Muslim comes from this:

Out of the country of Greater Arabia Shall be born a strong master of Mohammed,
He will enter Europe wearing a blue turban.
He will be the terror of mankind.
Never more horror.


A Nostradamus prediction.

Pretty funny really. Most of the folks saying Obama is the Anti-Christ because he's 'Muslim' are the same people who say Nostradamus was a charlatan.

[FalconX2000]

D'oh. I meant iceberg. Can I get a mulligan? I just woke up half an hour ago?

Sure. A mulligan means a retake. So go ahead and repost it if you want.:biggrin:


So the Biden traveling staff is bringing back a little present to Obama headquarters in Chicago: a two-foot sheet cake in the shape of the electoral map, showing what an imaginary clean-sweep of the country would look like for Obama.

Every state was smothered in “blue state frosting” with the exception of two, McCain and Palin’s home states of Arizona and Alaska.

Instead of a message like “Happy Birthday” or “Congratulations” the cake had “NOV. 5, 2008 SCORECARD” across the top, and below it the imaginary electoral tallies, “Obama/Biden 525, McCain/Palin 13”.

The cake was large enough for a small army of staffers (Texas alone could serve four) and each state had the number of electoral votes delicately written in white frosting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/10/politics/fromtheroad/entry4514318.shtml


http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6366/electionmapcakekb2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Looks delicious.:biggrin:

[Major Comma]

It does look delicious ,
but Obama winning something like 48 states?
I dont think so .

[Royal]

Sure. A mulligan means a retake. So go ahead and repost it if you want.:biggrin:




http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/10/politics/fromtheroad/entry4514318.shtml


http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6366/electionmapcakekb2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Looks delicious.:biggrin:

That's some Japan type crap right there.

[Infra-Man]

Sure. A mulligan means a retake. So go ahead and repost it if you want.:biggrin:

I'll just edit and post the greatest golf-related picture of all-time.
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/philmickelson.jpg

[FalconX2000]

It does look delicious ,
but Obama winning something like 48 states?
I dont think so .

Yeah, the Obama camp decided to make it athe dream map, of course.


And hilarious pic Infra-Man.

[Royal]

John Stossel trys to sabotage Youth Vote. (http://www.futuremajority.com/node/3251)

Because we can't count on college students worrying about trying to get a degree while hoping their scholarship still holds all while being overly caffinated.

[KevinTBrown]

It does look delicious ,
but Obama winning something like 48 states?
I dont think so .

27 for sure, maybe 28 depending on WV. And, yes, that does include OH and FL.

Here's how the map looks with him winning 27 states: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10

That's also an electoral vote total of 353 for Obama. :biggrin:

[Infra-Man]

So in light of the Troopergate report findings, what does the McCain campaign do?

Does McCain keep Palin? Does McCain ditch Palin? Do they try to ignore the abuse of power part of the report and play up the fact Palin didn't technically break the law?

[Royal]

Get Pailin to a safe house and law low till the end of the election.

[Major Comma]

McCain cant ditch Palin.
Just play it cool and concentrate on the economy .
By the way I wasnt implying earlier that Obama cant win,I just think in the end when we are 3 days out this election will be a lot closer .

[Buzz Dixon]

Supposedly the GOP leadership wouldn't let McCain have Lieberman as a VP choice because he was a Democrat.

Based on the bigots who have been loudest in supporting Palin's smears, I suspect it might really have been because Lieberman is Jewish.

I think the GOP and McCain are belatedly realizing any victory they achieve on appealing to fear, ignorance, and bigotry is not going to result in a country they will want to govern. Beat Obama on issues and ability, fine, but stir up fear and hatred and the blowback will make governing nearly impossible.

[the4thpip]

It does look delicious ,
but Obama winning something like 48 states?
I dont think so .

I agree.

I think Arizona is still in play. :biggrin:

[the4thpip]

As a measure to see how the Ayers attacks have been working: the average of national polls at RCP now give Obama what I think is the highest lead ever at 7.6%

[Major Comma]

who will most likely take pennsylvania at this point?

[Major Comma]

The4thpip,
Arizona in play?
Funny, i was thinking the same thing about Illinois.:biggrin:

[Pink Bat Maxine]

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/cartoon/images/Pogo/pn-pogo.jpg

[Stressfactor]

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/cartoon/images/Pogo/pn-pogo.jpg

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

[stealthwise]

Well, if the polls are true and the Dems have a win coming, the only way I can see this not coming to be at this point is if the Republicans steal the election ala 2000 with pathetic and disgusting vote manipulation.

If that's how it turns out and appears to be, riot.

Seriously, gather up and revolt. Go *$%&@# nuts and let the country know you won't stand for it. Nothing more repellent than the destruction of democracy. That's my one fear that will take place in the coming month, as Canada looks to be heading towards another minority government, which is the best we'll likely get at this point, and Obama seems to have a clear lead. Anything less than that will likely be a failure for North America, and by extension, the world.

[Major Comma]

No need to riot.
No matter who wins ,it will work out one way or the other

[Royal]

No need to riot.
No matter who wins ,it will work out one way or the other

Yes because everyone is going to sit calmly, smile and endure another rigging.

This is perfect climate for a riot.

[PatrickG]

No need to riot.
No matter who wins ,it will work out one way or the other

See, I'm somewhere inbetween.

Democracy means you aren't supposed to have faith in the system, you're supposed to hold a firm grip over it.

At the same time, a riot means giving up on our end of the democracy because somebody else did.

I think peaceful civil disobedience is an axiomatic response to electoral shenanigans.

I don't count 2000 or 2004 because the Democrats retracted their claims both times to avoid putting the country through the constitutional wringer.

But at a certain point, enough is enough. It would take clear, unambiguous shenanigans if the current polling trend continues to election day and Obama still loses.

At that point, this former Republican would engage in peaceful protest until jailed and call for others to do the same. Don't harm or take life or property. But speak up until you become so inconvenient that you must be addressed.

[Nick Soapdish]

Sure. A mulligan means a retake. So go ahead and repost it if you want.:biggrin:




http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/10/politics/fromtheroad/entry4514318.shtml


http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6366/electionmapcakekb2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Looks delicious.:biggrin:

Really unlikely though.

RCP has McCain with an 11.3 point lead in Arizona and 17 point lead in Alaska. I can see an outside (very outside) chance of Obama taking Arizona. But McCain leads by 39 points in Idaho, a 36 point lead in Utah and a 31 point lead in Oklahoma. He leads by 25.7 in Wyoming. I don't think that any of those states have large numbers of potentially new voters that aren't being counted by the polls. One could make an argument that some of the Southern states might be in play despite being seemingly solid red. (I think that Georgia's the only possible, but I've seen others that are more optimistic.) But that isn't the case out west. Obama can pick up Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico and maybe Montana[/i], but the rest are going for McCain. I guess he could pick up the city of Omaha as well.

[the4thpip]

No need to riot.
No matter who wins ,it will work out one way or the other

:eek:
Exactly how much soma have you taken today??

[Royal]

See, I'm somewhere inbetween.

Democracy means you aren't supposed to have faith in the system, you're supposed to hold a firm grip over it.

At the same time, a riot means giving up on our end of the democracy because somebody else did.

I think peaceful civil disobedience is an axiomatic response to electoral shenanigans.



Because that worked REAL well back in 2003.

[the4thpip]

I would say both civil disobedience and riots > act like nothing happened because "it will work out one way or the other".

[stealthwise]

:eek:
Exactly how much soma have you taken today??

...I like being a beta...


Seriously though, if the GOP rig this one, burn that mother down. The system's been broken for a long time now, and if the right people aren't put in place properly, it's time to tear shit apart and rebuild.

[KevinTBrown]

Well, if the polls are true and the Dems have a win coming, the only way I can see this not coming to be at this point is if the Republicans steal the election ala 2000 with pathetic and disgusting vote manipulation.

If that's how it turns out and appears to be, riot.

Seriously, gather up and revolt. Go *$%&@# nuts and let the country know you won't stand for it. Nothing more repellent than the destruction of democracy. That's my one fear that will take place in the coming month, as Canada looks to be heading towards another minority government, which is the best we'll likely get at this point, and Obama seems to have a clear lead. Anything less than that will likely be a failure for North America, and by extension, the world.

I think the ONLY way McCain can win at this point is that there's manipulation of some sort. Rigt now, according to the polls, Obama doesn't even need OH or FL to win. There would need to be some major cheating going on to get McCain the win.

No need to riot.
No matter who wins ,it will work out one way or the other

Bullshit.

I will not just "work out"......

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Usually when people think of funny political sketches they think of SNL. Well before MADTV went to hell last year ...the show had a history of funny shit. Included in these sketches is jabs at Clinton , Bush , Cheney , Kerry , Obama and McCain ! Happy watching and look at who they have playing John McCain...and tell me thats not pretty "out there" as an idea.

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi1517748249/

[Arrogantcur]

I would say both civil disobedience and riots > act like nothing happened because "it will work out one way or the other".

Me too.

One time I made a post that scared some people because I basically said that I wanted to see riots like in the '60s, I wanted to see an angry mob outside the White House, I wanted--as V said in the movie--for the government to be afraid of the people instead of people being afraid of the government.

People really were freaked out that I'd say something like that. But I felt like every other option had been exhausted. A Democratic Congress had been elected, but they hadn't done anything of consequence to help. Civil disobedience and protests had been going on for years, and they were ignored. Bush isn't scared of Code Pink.

Meanwhile we had these people starting wars, imprisoning people without trials, torturing those people. You can't just sit back and accept stuff like that.

So if another election is stolen, I totally agree with stealthwise. The American people ought to care about this at least as much as they cared about Rodney King.

[FalconX2000]

Really unlikely though.

RCP has McCain with an 11.3 point lead in Arizona and 17 point lead in Alaska. I can see an outside (very outside) chance of Obama taking Arizona. But McCain leads by 39 points in Idaho, a 36 point lead in Utah and a 31 point lead in Oklahoma. He leads by 25.7 in Wyoming. I don't think that any of those states have large numbers of potentially new voters that aren't being counted by the polls. One could make an argument that some of the Southern states might be in play despite being seemingly solid red. (I think that Georgia's the only possible, but I've seen others that are more optimistic.) But that isn't the case out west. Obama can pick up Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico and maybe Montana[/i], but the rest are going for McCain. I guess he could pick up the city of Omaha as well.

The Obama camp is just having fun. No need to spoil it with reality.:tongue:

[Major Comma]

If Mccain wins ,
it will most likely be by a very small margin.
The democrats will retain both the Senate and the House .
What I meant when I said it would work out one way or the other is either Obama wins and the Democrats have control of The legislative and the executive branch ,
Or they wont but they will still have enough power to stop McCain from getting anything done .
Thats what I meant

[KevinTBrown]

If Mccain wins ,
it will most likely be by a very small margin.
The democrats will retain both the Senate and the House .
What I meant when I said it would work out one way or the other is either Obama wins and the Democrats have control of The legislative and the executive branch ,
Or they wont but they will still have enough power to stop McCain from getting anything done .
Thats what I meant

If McCain wins, there was cheating going on. Period.

[Nick Soapdish]

27 for sure, maybe 28 depending on WV. And, yes, that does include OH and FL.

Here's how the map looks with him winning 27 states: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10

That's also an electoral vote total of 353 for Obama. :biggrin:

Nothing's "for sure", but I think that Missouri is in play just as much as West Virginia. And Indiana's very close as well. My dream map has him taking all the toss-up states as well as Georgia, Montana and the Nebraska district with Omaha. That's 399 electoral votes.

[Tetsuo_man]

Nothing's "for sure", but I think that Missouri is in play just as much as West Virginia. And Indiana's very close as well. My dream map has him taking all the toss-up states as well as Georgia, Montana and the Nebraska district with Omaha. That's 399 electoral votes.

You better believe it I know all my family (including my mother who has never voted for a democrat for prez) here in missouri are going to vote obama.

[FalconX2000]

Nothing's "for sure", but I think that Missouri is in play just as much as West Virginia. And Indiana's very close as well. My dream map has him taking all the toss-up states as well as Georgia, Montana and the Nebraska district with Omaha. That's 399 electoral votes.

Wait a minute...West Virginia's in play?:confused:

[Nick Soapdish]

Wait a minute...West Virginia's in play?:confused:

It moved from solid McCain to leaning McCain to toss-up. The last ARG poll had Obama as 8 points ahead, but I think the rest still have McCain leading.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

It moved from solid McCain to leaning McCain to toss-up. The last ARG poll had Obama as 8 points ahead, but I think the rest still have McCain leading.

Nah, they´ll get scared of the big bad muslim man come election day and vote McCain.

[Major Comma]

Kevin
I am not saying MCain wouldnt cheat .
I am saying if he wins there is no reason to riot .
because The Democrats will still control everything else.

[KevinTBrown]

Kevin
I am not saying MCain wouldnt cheat .
I am saying if he wins there is no reason to riot .
because The Democrats will still control everything else.

Again, if he wins, he or the Republican party cheated.

That would be reason to riot.

[Major Comma]

What purpose would a riot serve ?
what are going to do, overthrow the government?

[Royal]

What purpose would a riot serve ?
what are going to do, overthrow the government?

Gee. I don't know. Maybe putting the fear of the gods into the N-GOP for once?

Show them who their fucking with maybe?

[rick]

What purpose would a riot serve ?
what are going to do, overthrow the government?


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Thomas Jefferson

[Major Comma]

and in this case ,who are the patriots and tyrants whose blood we would be spilling?

[KevinTBrown]

At this point in time, the ONLY way for McCain to win is to cheat his way in.

Either you fight for freedom and truth or you don't.

[Royal]

patriots = us and anyone else who thinks they've been robbed. All walks, all colors, all creeds

tyrants = Neo-conservatives. Cause there's no way a REAL Republican would pull this shit.

Live like a king or die as a serf. Your choice.

[rick]

and in this case ,who are the patriots and tyrants whose blood we would be spilling?

The people would be the patriots.

The government would be the tyrants.

Honestly I didn't think that would be too hard to figure out.

[Major Comma]

I asked because i thought you were advocating killing McCain

[LtMarvel]

You better believe it I know all my family (including my mother who has never voted for a democrat for prez) here in missouri are going to vote obama.
Well, my father-in-law has vowed to cancel my vote, here in Missouri. But he can't cancel both my wife and me!

[rick]

I asked because i thought you were advocating killing McCain


John?

No way.

McCain is a national hero and even though I hate to see him become a pawn for the Neo-Cons, I would never wish any harm to the man.

Despite everything, he is still one of the good guys.

[Major Comma]

I appreciate the clarification.

[Buzz Dixon]

I asked because i thought you were advocating killing McCainThe cancer is doing that.

[Dr Maeno]

McCain is used because he is a idiot and I can't trust a man like Obama who is freinds with people who are anti-american. I vote neither liberals make me life because they think other people think like Americans or have the same values they trust China,Russia, Venezuela or other despotic countries thinking they care about their people or self preservation of the state. Here the politicians or lazy money grubbing fat cats who sell their influence for money and don't understand when they are being used for their own destruction. They world wants to destroy us you people don't understand it to keep their power they need a scape goat who better than the wealthiest nation on earth presumanby.Most sane people just want a good home, job security but those who seek power by any means or to maintain need an enemy we are it. These buffoons don't understand that maybe a few but they keep it to themselves.

[Royal]

Ok. Once more, but with a space bar.

[Lester C.]

McCain supporters aren't doing him a favor when they introduce him or ask him questions. :eek:

[Infra-Man]

Sarah Palin gets no love from Flyers fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TgDanmWkg

Maybe they were saying "Boo-urns"

EDIT:
Background is amusing.
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/ELN08-Palin-2008-Rang_Corm-721124.jpg

[Kyuubi]

To be fair: These are the same people that booed Santa Clause.

[Berserk]

Supposedly the GOP leadership wouldn't let McCain have Lieberman as a VP choice because he was a Democrat.

Based on the bigots who have been loudest in supporting Palin's smears, I suspect it might really have been because Lieberman is Jewish.

I think the GOP and McCain are belatedly realizing any victory they achieve on appealing to fear, ignorance, and bigotry is not going to result in a country they will want to govern. Beat Obama on issues and ability, fine, but stir up fear and hatred and the blowback will make governing nearly impossible.



I think it has less to do with the fact that Lieberman is Jewish and more to do with his extremely liberal views. In fact, the only issue where Lierberman sides with Republicans is on the Iraq War. Republicans don't like McCain because he's too far to the left for them which is why he needed a vice president that was far to the right, so he could shore up the base. Picking Lieberman would have lost him even more support among his base.

[KevinTBrown]

To be fair: These are the same people that booed Santa Clause.

And the 2 sequels as well....

[SUPERECWFAN1]

To be fair: These are the same people that kicked Santa Claus ass !

Changed it a bit since this is what happened . The polls all show Obama way ahead . If McCain wins its clear Obama was cheated , we as Democracy were cheated and we should go ape shit crazy. No JUSTICE...NO PEACE .

[PatrickG]

I think it has less to do with the fact that Lieberman is Jewish and more to do with his extremely liberal views. In fact, the only issue where Lierberman sides with Republicans is on the Iraq War. Republicans don't like McCain because he's too far to the left for them which is why he needed a vice president that was far to the right, so he could shore up the base. Picking Lieberman would have lost him even more support among his base.

Lieberman is culturally and socially very conservative. He's in favor of banning violent video games. He's maintained an association with televangelist John Hagee.

Joe Lieberman is pretty much the opposite of what I want in a president, even moreso than McCain.

Obama is socially left of center and economically more conservative than Bush or McCain now. Look at McCain's wealth redistribution mortgage bailout plan (which OBAMA expressed concerns about the profitability of for taxpayers as investors) or Bush (who is basically our first leader in the new theo-communist state with his surveillance and interrogation tactics, faith-based initiatives and bail out package).

Republicans are now fiscally to the left of Democrats while amping up the socially oppressive tendencies of the non-populist right.

Sidebar: I hate how "populist" means "dumb" now. I think "populism" and I think of highly educated farmers who speak two languages and read Homer while still working with their hands. I think of that Jeffersonian populism of the educated citizen involving themselves in the affairs of state, not "Joe Sixpack" being given an equal voice to scholars and experts. It's one thing if Joe Sixpack is a cultured renaissance man who makes a living welding steel and another thing if he's basically a drunk and belligerent Adam Corolla.

[Infra-Man]

Christopher Buckley, son of William F. Buckley Jr., is voting for Barack Obama.

http://thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama/

Let me be the latest conservative/libertarian/whatever to leap onto the Barack Obama bandwagon. It’s a good thing my dear old mum and pup are no longer alive. They’d cut off my allowance.

Or would they? But let’s get that part out of the way. The only reason my vote would be of any interest to anyone is that my last name happens to be Buckley—a name I inherited. So in the event anyone notices or cares, the headline will be: “William F. Buckley’s Son Says He Is Pro-Obama.” I know, I know: It lacks the throw-weight of “Ron Reagan Jr. to Address Democratic Convention,” but it’ll have to do.

I am—drum roll, please, cue trumpets—making this announcement in the cyberpages of The Daily Beast (what joy to be writing for a publication so named!) rather than in the pages of National Review, where I write the back-page column. For a reason: My colleague, the superb and very dishy Kathleen Parker, recently wrote in National Review Online a column stating what John Cleese as Basil Fawlty would call “the bleeding obvious”: namely, that Sarah Palin is an embarrassment, and a dangerous one at that. She’s not exactly alone. New York Times columnist David Brooks, who began his career at NR, just called Governor Palin “a cancer on the Republican Party.”

As for Kathleen, she has to date received 12,000 (quite literally) foam-at-the-mouth hate-emails. One correspondent, if that’s quite the right word, suggested that Kathleen’s mother should have aborted her and tossed the fetus into a Dumpster. There’s Socratic dialogue for you. Dear Pup once said to me sighfully after a right-winger who fancied himself a WFB protégé had said something transcendently and provocatively cretinous, “You know, I’ve spent my entire life time separating the Right from the kooks.” Well, the dear man did his best. At any rate, I don’t have the kidney at the moment for 12,000 emails saying how good it is he’s no longer alive to see his Judas of a son endorse for the presidency a covert Muslim who pals around with the Weather Underground. So, you’re reading it here first.

As to the particulars, assuming anyone gives a fig, here goes:

I have known John McCain personally since 1982. I wrote a well-received speech for him. Earlier this year, I wrote in The New York Times—I’m beginning to sound like Paul Krugman, who cannot begin a column without saying, “As I warned the world in my last column...”—a highly favorable Op-Ed about McCain, taking Rush Limbaugh and the others in the Right Wing Sanhedrin to task for going after McCain for being insufficiently conservative. I don’t—still—doubt that McCain’s instincts remain fundamentally conservative. But the problem is otherwise.

McCain rose to power on his personality and biography. He was authentic. He spoke truth to power. He told the media they were “jerks” (a sure sign of authenticity, to say nothing of good taste; we are jerks). He was real. He was unconventional. He embraced former anti-war leaders. He brought resolution to the awful missing-POW business. He brought about normalization with Vietnam—his former torturers! Yes, he erred in accepting plane rides and vacations from Charles Keating, but then, having been cleared on technicalities, groveled in apology before the nation. He told me across a lunch table, “The Keating business was much worse than my five and a half years in Hanoi, because I at least walked away from that with my honor.” Your heart went out to the guy. I thought at the time, God, this guy should be president someday.

A year ago, when everyone, including the man I’m about to endorse, was caterwauling to get out of Iraq on the next available flight, John McCain, practically alone, said no, no—bad move. Surge. It seemed a suicidal position to take, an act of political bravery of the kind you don’t see a whole lot of anymore.

But that was—sigh—then. John McCain has changed. He said, famously, apropos the Republican debacle post-1994, “We came to Washington to change it, and Washington changed us.” This campaign has changed John McCain. It has made him inauthentic. A once-first class temperament has become irascible and snarly; his positions change, and lack coherence; he makes unrealistic promises, such as balancing the federal budget “by the end of my first term.” Who, really, believes that? Then there was the self-dramatizing and feckless suspension of his campaign over the financial crisis. His ninth-inning attack ads are mean-spirited and pointless. And finally, not to belabor it, there was the Palin nomination. What on earth can he have been thinking?

All this is genuinely saddening, and for the country is perhaps even tragic, for America ought, really, to be governed by men like John McCain—who have spent their entire lives in its service, even willing to give the last full measure of their devotion to it. If he goes out losing ugly, it will be beyond tragic, graffiti on a marble bust.

As for Senator Obama: He has exhibited throughout a “first-class temperament,” pace Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.’s famous comment about FDR. As for his intellect, well, he’s a Harvard man, though that’s sure as heck no guarantee of anything, these days. Vietnam was brought to you by Harvard and (one or two) Yale men. As for our current adventure in Mesopotamia, consider this lustrous alumni roster. Bush 43: Yale. Rumsfeld: Princeton. Paul Bremer: Yale and Harvard. What do they all have in common? Andover! The best and the brightest.

I’ve read Obama’s books, and they are first-rate. He is that rara avis, the politician who writes his own books. Imagine. He is also a lefty. I am not. I am a small-government conservative who clings tenaciously and old-fashionedly to the idea that one ought to have balanced budgets. On abortion, gay marriage, et al, I’m libertarian. I believe with my sage and epigrammatic friend P.J. O’Rourke that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take it all away.

But having a first-class temperament and a first-class intellect, President Obama will (I pray, secularly) surely understand that traditional left-politics aren’t going to get us out of this pit we’ve dug for ourselves. If he raises taxes and throws up tariff walls and opens the coffers of the DNC to bribe-money from the special interest groups against whom he has (somewhat disingenuously) railed during the campaign trail, then he will almost certainly reap a whirlwind that will make Katrina look like a balmy summer zephyr.

Obama has in him—I think, despite his sometimes airy-fairy “We are the people we have been waiting for” silly rhetoric—the potential to be a good, perhaps even great leader. He is, it seems clear enough, what the historical moment seems to be calling for.

So, I wish him all the best. We are all in this together. Necessity is the mother of bipartisanship. And so, for the first time in my life, I’ll be pulling the Democratic lever in November. As the saying goes, God save the United States of America.

[KevinTBrown]

McCain appers to be blowing "his load" in PA: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14495.html

So who cares about trying to keep OH & FL?? :rolleyes:

*applauds McCain campaign for bad move*

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yes , McCain blow all the money on a state where Obama has a double digit lead. This will help Obama win Ohio and Florida.

[Nick Soapdish]

I was most encouraged by a quote by Ed Rendell, former governor of Penn.

Still, Rendell said that when a Quinnipiac University poll came out last month showing Obama leading by 15 points, “I shuddered, because I don’t believe for a minute that we’re 15 points up” and “we can’t be overconfident for one second.”

[Infra-Man]

From Meet the Press this morning:
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/newsweekpoll.jpg

and from the "this looks promising but don't get your hopes up until it's over" file, here's 538's current chart:
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/538chart.jpg

[KevinTBrown]

I'm more surprised at how close they're projecting the popular vote.

[Infra-Man]

I'm more surprised at how close they're projecting the popular vote.

It's actually a bigger gap than previous projections over the last two months, which have usually been 1%-3% differences, if I remember right.

[DrewEdwards]

As the saying goes, God save the United States of America.

We probably need God to step in at this point. Heh...

[Arrogantcur]

Kevin
I am not saying MCain wouldnt cheat .
I am saying if he wins there is no reason to riot .
because The Democrats will still control everything else.

Major Comma, I'm afraid that just won't be good enough. We've had a Democratic Congress for a couple of years now, and they haven't fought the Executive Branch tooth and nail like I, for one, wanted them to.

In the '90s I wasn't paying any attention to U.S. politics. But based on what little I've read of the Clinton years, Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress really made Bill's job difficult. I'm no fan of Gingrich, but I wish that the current crop of Democrats were just as stubborn and just as unwilling to back down from the President as the Republican Congress of the '90s apparently was.

Unfortunately, they're not.

So I feel the only way things can get better is if Democrats control both the Executive and the Legislative branches. It's not enough to control the House and Senate. We need Barack Obama in the Oval Office.

I understand why you wouldn't want people to get violent. Still, true democracy means that the people have a say in things. What happens when people are denied that say, denied it by--for example--somebody cheating? Taking away the people's votes? What are the people supposed to do then?

[Charles RB]

What purpose would a riot serve ?

Riots make it publicly obvious that large numbers of people are angry and frustrated, and feel only violence will get them listened to. These can lead to discourse that might see things get changed.

Alternatively, it can lead (at least in the short-term) to a hardline violent response by the state, a damaged reputation for whatever cause the riot was over, and people's stuff getting burnt.

[Nick Soapdish]

Major Comma, I'm afraid that just won't be good enough. We've had a Democratic Congress for a couple of years now, and they haven't fought the Executive Branch tooth and nail like I, for one, wanted them to.

In the '90s I wasn't paying any attention to U.S. politics. But based on what little I've read of the Clinton years, Newt Gingrich and the Republican Congress really made Bill's job difficult. I'm no fan of Gingrich, but I wish that the current crop of Democrats were just as stubborn and just as unwilling to back down from the President as the Republican Congress of the '90s apparently was.

Unfortunately, they're not.

So I feel the only way things can get better is if Democrats control both the Executive and the Legislative branches. It's not enough to control the House and Senate. We need Barack Obama in the Oval Office.

I understand why you wouldn't want people to get violent. Still, true democracy means that the people have a say in things. What happens when people are denied that say, denied it by--for example--somebody cheating? Taking away the people's votes? What are the people supposed to do then?

I think that part of that by the Democrats is that it's just habit. But part of it is patience. They don't want to seem partisan and wreck their chances of taking the election. The voters that are ok with a party acting partisan are already strongly in one corner or the other.

And if the Dems have a strong majority in both houses, it might be enough to outweigh that first reason.

[Michael P]

My roommate's watching C-Span, and Joe Biden is really tearing into McCain.

[Major Comma]

If McCain stole the election,
I would support nonviolent civil disobedience.
But not riots .

[KevinTBrown]

If McCain stole the election,
I would support nonviolent civil disobedience.
But not riots .

There would be people who do that as well, but many, many more would be too pissed off to want to be civil.

If the election was a close contest, then there wouldn't be riots or civil disobedience. However, it's not close right now. Obama looks to get 300+ in electoral votes. If Mccain somehow "miraculously" swings that around, people will know it's shady.

[Buzz Dixon]

If McCain stole the election,
I would support nonviolent civil disobedience.
But not riots .If the GOP steals the election, then for the next 4 years everyone who voted for Obama should drive no faster than 55 miles an hour on all interstate freeways.

That'll be a lot more effective a protest than rioting.

[Buzz Dixon]

The Shape Of Things To Come:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4926283.ece

Palin is already aiming for 2012.

[Major Comma]

Oh Come ON!
Palins not out there attacking Obama against McCains wishes.

[Infra-Man]

The Shape Of Things To Come:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4926283.ece

Palin is already aiming for 2012.

Her surviving the primaries and being considered a viable candidate in 2012? That's about as likely Ana Marie Cox dating me.

[rick]

Oh Come ON!
Palins not out there attacking Obama against McCains wishes.


I have no idea if it is true or not, but I could certainly believe it.


It would hardly be the first time a VP candidate went against the Presidential candidates wishes.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If McCain stole the election,
I would support nonviolent civil disobedience.
But not riots .


There would be people who do that as well, but many, many more would be too pissed off to want to be civil.

If the election was a close contest, then there wouldn't be riots or civil disobedience. However, it's not close right now. Obama looks to get 300+ in electoral votes. If Mccain somehow "miraculously" swings that around, people will know it's shady.

Hell yeah and thats when shit should go wild. Obama if he gets screwed outta this , well...everyone should march on the capitol and not stop til its made right. If we fall for this ...we'll fall for anything.

If the GOP steals the election, then for the next 4 years everyone who voted for Obama should drive no faster than 55 miles an hour on all interstate freeways.

That'll be a lot more effective a protest than rioting.

I think effectively marching and tying up the capitol for days and locking it down will be the best message. :tongue:

The Shape Of Things To Come:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4926283.ece

Palin is already aiming for 2012.

Her surviving the primaries and being considered a viable candidate in 2012? That's about as likely Ana Marie Cox dating me.

No way people would put that dummy in. Its part of the reason her attacks aren't working. People know she's an idiot.

[stealthwise]

The Shape Of Things To Come:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4926283.ece

Palin is already aiming for 2012.

Then she's even more deluded than Hillary.

Fucking Jeb Bush is a better choice than her right now.

[Crowley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLlIigHg1v0

So... anyone else read the code words?

He's an Arab= He's got dark skin!

[Infra-Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLlIigHg1v0

So... anyone else read the code words?

He's an Arab= He's got dark skin!

Interesting follow-up video involving the "Obama is an Arab" lady.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOU9xZ4zcss

[LtMarvel]

The Shape Of Things To Come:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4926283.ece

Palin is already aiming for 2012.
Call me paranoid or whatever, but I still wonder why Palin won't release her medical records until after the election.

Is it because the latest baby isn't what she said it is?

[KevinTBrown]

Call me paranoid or whatever, but I still wonder why Palin won't release her medical records until after the election.

Is it because the latest baby isn't what she said it is?

Well, we have seen Bristol as recently as the VP debate. Does she look 6 months pregnant to you...?

She sure didn't look it to me.



They "cooked the books" to make it Sarah's baby. Every time you see them in public, 99% of the time it's Bristol who is holding him. I think there may have been 1 or 2 times where the first dude of AK is holding him.

[KevinTBrown]

Just saw this and I had to share.

http://www.blognow.com.au/uploads/j/jamesmoylan/79739.jpg


:biggrin:

[Adam C]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLlIigHg1v0

So... anyone else read the code words?

He's an Arab= He's got dark skin!

Yup.

But then I've pegged all the ignorant attacks on Islam since 9/11 as basically boiling down to "the Arab hoards will overrun our lands!" Now it seems that the bigots are simply being a bit more honest.

[kingdom2000]

Her surviving the primaries and being considered a viable candidate in 2012? That's about as likely Ana Marie Cox dating me.

Hmmm happy thought of the Cox part. As for 2012, what is she smoking? The only support she has is the "base" and if this election cycle has proven anything, that is a start but not nearly enough. Besides, the republican party is going to want to come out with a big club then and she doesn't strike me as big enough.

On a side note, here is a "mixed" response (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/11/palin-drops-puck-at-flyers-game-receives-mixed-reaction/) to her appearance at a hockey game where it sounds like 50-60% of the people there booed her.

Worse though is her attempt to deflect it as an attack on her child.
The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, “How dare they boo Piper!”

So basically she either is so egotasitcal as to believe that, or she decided to use her child as a human shield. What a bitch either way.

[Cam63]

I can't make up my mind whether she's plain stupid, crazy or crazy like a fox.

[PatrickG]

Interesting follow-up video involving the "Obama is an Arab" lady.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOU9xZ4zcss

Bash: His father was Muslim, and he’s a Christian.

Quinnell Yeah , but he’s still got Muslim in him. So that’s still part of him. I got all the stuff from the library and I could send you all kinds of stuff on him. In fact….

Wow.

Uhm...

Wow.

[Nick Soapdish]

Hmmm happy thought of the Cox part. As for 2012, what is she smoking? The only support she has is the "base" and if this election cycle has proven anything, that is a start but not nearly enough. Besides, the republican party is going to want to come out with a big club then and she doesn't strike me as big enough.

On a side note, here is a "mixed" response (http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/11/palin-drops-puck-at-flyers-game-receives-mixed-reaction/) to her appearance at a hockey game where it sounds like 50-60% of the people there booed her.

Worse though is her attempt to deflect it as an attack on her child.
The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, “How dare they boo Piper!”

So basically she either is so egotasitcal as to believe that, or she decided to use her child as a human shield. What a bitch either way.

Apparently, she hasn't heard about Philadelphia fans.

I'm pretty sure it's just the latter - trying to use Piper to prevent boos. But it could be both.

Bash: His father was Muslim, and he’s a Christian.

Quinnell Yeah , but he’s still got Muslim in him. So that’s still part of him. I got all the stuff from the library and I could send you all kinds of stuff on him. In fact….

That part really caught my ear as well. Apparently, religion is an inherited condition.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

John McCain has told his supporters he'd gonna whip Barack Obama's ass in the 3rd debate. And well.... ya lost the last 2 John....maybe you should try and win one . Maybe you'll listen to his answers instead of walking around the stage acting like your lost out there.

[Major Comma]

Where did he say this ?
Whip his ass ?
he used those words?

[Tetsuo_man]

Where did he say this ?
Whip his ass ?
he used those words?

I think he was sorta paraphrasing.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Where did he say this ?
Whip his ass ?
he used those words?

I think he was sorta paraphrasing.

He told a group of supporters that he was gonna whip his "you know what" at the next debate. I wonder if this will be the debate McCain has a classic meltdown ?

[Infra-Man]

If this updated 538 chart is correct, John McCain only has a 5.9% chance of winning the election.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/538chart-1-1.jpg

EDIT:
That said, Obama/Biden should treat this last leg of the race like the election is close and could go either way. No high stepping until they're in the end zone.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If this updated 538 chart is correct, John McCain only has a 5.9% chance of winning the election.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/538chart-1-1.jpg

EDIT:
That said, Obama/Biden should treat this last leg of the race like the election is close and could go either way. No high stepping until they're in the end zone.

Obama is hitting Ohio hard...he wants to win there . Biden is in Penn state working it too. Plus they bought that primetime spot 6 days before the election. They wanna close the deal as they say...

[AllisterH]

Two questions.

1. My family is going to Washington for the inauguration (well, the family that lives in Maryland). My mom never thought she would see a black person in the white house so she's ecstatic and so is the rest of my family so she's made my cousins to tape the inauguration....Who else is going to the inauguration?

2. What do you want to see in the 1st 90 days? Rollback of the Patrot Act or a push for the Healthcare deal...

[Evan Waters]

At this point I still don't want to count my chickens (knock on wood and all that), but IF Obama wins the Presidency:

Well, first of all he'll have to do something on the economic front. The extent to which the government can stop a financial downturn is limited, but it can work on providing relief from the worst effects. The New Deal didn't solve the Great Depression, but it made it more tolerable. Do what we can with what money the government has to strengthen our welfare system, and sneak in some more oversight over the firms we're bailing out just to make damn sure they're on a leash.

Environmental legislation. We need it, now- I'm not sure of the exact form, but there need to be some hard limits on carbon emissions instead of the soft "if you feel like it" approach we've been taking so far.

Begin a very gradual drawdown of forces in Iraq, shifting some into Afghanistan, and combine this with solid diplomatic efforts to make sure that the Sunnis, Shias and Kurds don't instantly go for each other's throats. Remember the Iraq Study Group? Remember how they were completely ignored? Let's pay some attention this time, maybe.

[Royal]

How about worrying about cleaning up the mess that's going be left in the offices.

You know, like the one before the first W term that got blamed on Gore?

[kingdom2000]

As 538 noted (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/is-drudge-priming-mccain-reboot.html), republican lapdog, err "reporter" Bill Kristol appears (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/13/opinion/13kristol.html?_r=1&ref=&oref=slogin) to be helping to set the stage for a kinder, gentler McCain where he focuses on the issues and shows his "maverick" status by probably seeding his rallies with hecklers for him to calm down.

More I look at McCain's history the more bullshit that "maverick" title becomes. Its like those idiots that call out Palin's press conference to quit a job as the ultimate example of taking on the establishment and republican corruption the likes of which history has never seen (about exaggerated to that point).

[the4thpip]

At some point, even the die-hard Republicans must scratch their heads and go "the FUCK?"

"Kill him," "terrorist" and "off with his head" are a few of the outcries against Obama heard at McCain rallies last week.

And McCain campaign manager Rick Davis said it is Obama who needs to apologize.

After inflammatory speech at events for Republican presidential candidate John McCain made headlines this weekend, Democratic lawmaker John Lewis compared McCain to 1960s segregationist George Wallace.

Chris Wallace of Fox News Sunday asked Davis if McCain and Palin bear any responsibility for their supporters calls of violence when attack ads and stump speeches call Obama a "liar" and a "terrorist."

This is how Davis responded: "Barack Obama should apologize to John McCain directly for the kinds of comments made by Joe Lewis yesterday and that should be the end of this sordid affair."

Lewis had criticized the "atmosphere of hate" he said McCain is creating in the election, referencing an infamous Alabama church bombing in 1963 that was blamed on Wallace's fiery rhetoric.

Davis called Lewis' comparison "outrageous" because McCain was undergoing oppression in a prison camp at the time of Wallace's hateful speeches.


"Where was John McCain when George Wallace was spreading his hate and segregationist policies at that time?" Davis said. "He was in a Vietnam prison camp serving his country with his civil rights also denied. Nobody knows sacrifice like John McCain does."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Rick_Davis_plays_POW_card_to_1012.html

[the4thpip]

McCain supporters hate freedom:

While Allegheny County Republican Party Chairman Jim Roddey presided over the $1,000-a-plate fundraiser at Pittsburgh's Westin Convention Center Hotel, demonstrators across the street waved signs, mostly in protest of Palin's appearance. Among signs waved as the McCain/Palin "Straight Talk Express" bus drove by were "I'm a 6-packer for Obama" and "Palin = Bush with lipstick."

McCain and Palin represent "extremism," said participant Janice Markowitz.

"That's the intelligence we're dealing with in this country," said McCain supporter Jeamour Matthews of her opponents. "They don't have no grace (sic), they have no manners, they don't obey the law...these people should be arrested. They're blocking the sidewalk."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Palin_fields_Pennsylvania_protests_1012.html

[Lester C.]

I think the person who going the win is the one that rallies his base the best. You have a lot of Republicans out there voting against Obama rather than for McCain and vice versa.

[kingdom2000]

Only republicans would have such reverse logic.

And shouldn't it more accuratly say:

"Where was John McCain when George Wallace was spreading his hate and segregationist policies at that time?" Davis said. "He was in a Vietnam prison camp betraying his country by recording confessions and revealing who his father was for better treatment while his civil rights were denied. Nobody knows how to sacrifice his morals and beliefs like John McCain does."

Sorry but POW status does not excuse bad behavior.

[Typo Lad]

Well, we have seen Bristol as recently as the VP debate. Does she look 6 months pregnant to you...?

She sure didn't look it to me.



They "cooked the books" to make it Sarah's baby. Every time you see them in public, 99% of the time it's Bristol who is holding him. I think there may have been 1 or 2 times where the first dude of AK is holding him.
Please stop. This is the flip-side of the "Obama is a Muslim" thing.

[the4thpip]

Please stop. This is the flip-side of the "Obama is a Muslim" thing.

I think you are oversimplifying things here.

Democrats have never run an anti-muslim campaign.
Republicans constantly run "family values" campaigns and adulterer McCain partly got Palin on board to win voters who consider traditional family concepts important matters.

Palin's actions when going into labor with her down syndrome child pretty much leave two options: She showed no responsibility whatsoever to protect her child's health, or she made up the whole thing. There isn't much in between. And her judgment should be fair game in an election considering she might be president sooner rather than later if McCain gets elected.

[Typo Lad]

Sorry, I'm not saying there's a parallel to the content, I'm saying the tactic is the same. Bring up nonsense, fringe-lunatic claims when there are so many, many real reasons to take issue.

[FalconX2000]

At some point, even the die-hard Republicans must scratch their heads and go "the FUCK?"



http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Rick_Davis_plays_POW_card_to_1012.html

Alright, I finally hate Rick Davis more than Terry McAuliffe.



Registered voters, by 59 to 35 percent, now say McCain is more focused on attacking his opponent rather than addressing the issues. That's grown from a 48 to 45 percent split on this question in late August. Voters, by 68 to 26 percent, say Obama is mainly addressing the issues.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/10/13/poll_mccain_isnt_focusing_on_the_issues/

Obama's message is sinking in.:biggrin: And McCain really can't blame anyone but himself for having his campaign try to smear Obama with irrelevencies in the middle of a crisis and his advisers having such ill verbal discipline.

[LtMarvel]

News collected by www.electoral-vote.com :

Polifact Debunks Obama-Ayers Connection
The McCain campaign and the RNC are still using ads (e.g., like this one that link Obama and 1960s radical William Ayers. Now Polifact has examined the ads closely and concluded that the claim that Obama and Ayers ran a radical education foundation together is a "pants-on-fire" lie. While it is true that Obama was the nominal head of the foundation in question, Ayers never had a paid position on the foundation's staff, never was on the board, and never had a vote on anything. His connection to Obama was attending some board meetings that were open to the public, and this 20 years after his radical days, by which time he had reformed enough to get a Ph.D. in education from Columbia University and was able to win Chicago's "Citizen of the Year" award in 1997 for his work for nonprofit organizations. In short, while Ayers was a despicable person in his youth, the McCain campaign's relentless harping on the close relationship between Obama and Ayers is very misleading. They weren't close at all.

The Man Behind the "Obama Is a Muslim" Campaign Is Exposed"
E-mails have been circulating this year saying that Obama is a Muslim or is not a U.S. citizen, and similar things that are not true. Polls show that 10-15% of the population believe them. Ever wonder how these things get started? They are not seeded by spores from meteorites that landed on the earth 50 million years ago. They are very intentional, carefully crafted campaigns and one of the people responsible, Andy Martin, appeared on Fox News last week. The NY Times has a story on Martin. He has run for public office numerous times (once so he could "exterminate Jew power") and lost them all and has filed so many frivolous lawsuits that a federal judge once forbid him from filing any more without advance permission.

Minnesota State University ran a poll in North Dakota and found Barack Obama ahead of John McCain 45% to 43%. Now that is just a statistical tie, but a statistical tie in a state Bush won by 27 points in 2004 and 28 points in 2000 is not good news for McCain.

[Ninja Kris]

Curious about something.

How do the House and Senate races look as a whole.

[KevinTBrown]

Curious about something.

How do the House and Senate races look as a whole.

In the Senate, it looks like the Democrats may pick up a few seats, giving them close to 60. No idea about the House.




I need to find that link showing that......

[Yoda]

Well, we have seen Bristol as recently as the VP debate. Does she look 6 months pregnant to you...?

She sure didn't look it to me.



They "cooked the books" to make it Sarah's baby. Every time you see them in public, 99% of the time it's Bristol who is holding him. I think there may have been 1 or 2 times where the first dude of AK is holding him.

I think you're confusing your Palin daughters. Willow Palin was holding the baby at the VP debate. I don't even thing Bristol was in the audience.

[the4thpip]

Sorry, I'm not saying there's a parallel to the content, I'm saying the tactic is the same. Bring up nonsense, fringe-lunatic claims when there are so many, many real reasons to take issue.

I did not mean content. I meant that one of them is arguably a litmus test for what they claim they stand for, the other isn't.

[the4thpip]

Curious about something.

How do the House and Senate races look as a whole.

Here is a link to polls about recent House races:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/house.html

And the Senate:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/senate.html

[Typo Lad]

I did not mean content. I meant that one of them is arguably a litmus test for what they claim they stand for, the other isn't.
There's as much evidence for one as there is for the other (by which I mean, none but the ranting of nuts)

[the4thpip]

Vocal Bush and McCain critic Paul Krugman just was announced as Nobel prize winner for economics.

[the4thpip]

There's as much evidence for one as there is for the other (by which I mean, none but the ranting of nuts)

If that is so, that still leaves her seriously bad judgment as a fact:

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4628/sarahpalinla4.png

[KevinTBrown]

Here is a link to polls about recent House races:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/house.html

And the Senate:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/senate.html

Hmmmm, going to be interesting when Biden wins as VP & the Senate. :biggrin:

[Typo Lad]

If that is so, that still leaves her seriously bad judgment as a fact:


That's her personal choice. A stupid one, yes, but her choice.

Now, I personally am not voting for her (or rather, her running mate) because they want to take choice away from women... but I think it's shitty to say "Women should control their own bodies... except Sarah Palin. Dumb bitch." Because that's how it comes off.

If you want to say "Sarah Palin wants to take way the right to make the choices she did", then so be it. That's accurate. But to do that whole BS "It's not really HER KID!" thing? Nonsense and makes the person sounding it sound just as intelligent.

Also, in Palin's case... hey, she's paying for her choice.... right? Do we need to rake her over the coals for it?

[the4thpip]

That's her personal choice. A stupid one, yes, but her choice.


When you nominate somebody to be VP of a 76 year old man, the question will come up if she makes the right kind of choices.

Have you looked at the chart? It's snarky, but it's still based on what she says she did when she gave birth to the kid.

[the4thpip]

And it seems to me that you completely missed what I tried to say, and what the chart is about.
This is not about her choice not to abort the child. Of course not! This is about the choices she (says she) made that endangered the boy's life and health the day he was born.

[KevinTBrown]

When you nominate somebody to be VP of a 76 year old man, the question will come up if she makes the right kind of choices.

Have you looked at the chart? It's snarky, but it's still based on what she says she did when she gave birth to the kid.

He's 72. He'd be 76 if he finished one term.

[Typo Lad]

And it seems to me that you completely missed what I tried to say, and what the chart is about.
This is not about her choice not to abort the child. Of course not! This is about the choices she (says she) made that endangered the boy's life and health the day he was born.
Stupid choices are the right of stupid people.

[TomStillwell]

Don't you love how the McCain campaign continually mutates as it tries different themes in hopes of catching on with voters outside their base?

First, it was what...Country First? Then they tried Change You Can Trust when they saw how many people were flocking to Obama with that message. When people weren't buying that they starting the Who Is Obama fearmongering of the last few weeks. Now he's switched to a Frank Assessment approach when called out for his deplorable attacks and fostering hate.

We have just a few more weeks left. Shall we start a pool on how many more times he changes between now and then? Dollars to donuts he'll switch again when people aren't buying his latest campaign band-aid.

[the4thpip]

Stupid choices are the right of stupid people.

And it's the right of the electorate to have those stupid choices discussed before a very important election.

[the4thpip]

Don't you love how the McCain campaign continually mutates as it tries different themes in hopes of catching on with voters outside their base?

First, it was what...Country First? Then they tried Change You Can Trust when they saw how many people were flocking to Obama with that message. When people weren't buying that they starting the Who Is Obama fearmongering of the last few weeks. Now he's switched to a Frank Assessment approach when called out for his deplorable attacks and fostering hate.

We have just a few more weeks left. Shall we start a pool on how many more times he changes between now and then? Dollars to donuts he'll switch again when people aren't buying his latest campaign band-aid.

Upcoming McCain Campaign Themes:


Things only a POW understands, and how they affect the economy.
Where's the beef?
Steroid abuse: The biggest crisis facing America today.
Walnuts for everybody!

[TomStillwell]

New McCain slogan:

Ignorant and/or racist? C'mon down! We need all the votes we can get.

[Typo Lad]

And it's the right of the electorate to have those stupid choices discussed before a very important election.
Discussing them, sure. Claiming they didn't happen and that she's fronting for her kid?

[the4thpip]

Discussing them, sure. Claiming they didn't happen and that she's fronting for her kid?

We will find out eventually just how unreasonable that "nutty" claim is.

[Typo Lad]

We will find out eventually just how unreasonable that "nutty" claim is.
See, and in my head, that sounds like "His name rhymes with Osama".

[TomStillwell]

See, and in my head, that sounds like "His name rhymes with Osama".

Well, no. It's factually incorrect that Obama is a Muslim. It's outside the realm of possibility.

But it's not impossible that Bristol Palin is actually not pregnant. She shows no sign of a pregnancy at all. Where is she carrying that baby...a backpack?

[the4thpip]

See, and in my head, that sounds like "His name rhymes with Osama".

Why do you hate science? :confused:


Just kidding.

I still think you are comparing something with thin evidence to something completely silly and disproven. Not the same thing.

[the4thpip]

At some point, even the die-hard Republicans must scratch their heads and go "the FUCK?"



Part deux... McCain about the state of the presidential race:

Let me give you the state of the race today. We have 22 days to go. We’re six points down. The national media has written us off. Senator Obama is measuring the drapes, and planning with Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid to raise taxes, increase spending, take away your right to vote by secret ballot in labor elections, and concede defeat in Iraq. But they forgot to let you decide. My friends, we’ve got them just where we want them.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/13/mccain-resets-campaign-with-new-speech/

[PatrickG]

Stupid choices are the right of stupid people.

I would agree except that Palin's stance on abortion means she doesN'T believe that "stupid choices are the right of stupid people" in her eyes, so why should the same courtesy be extended to her.

Bottom line, why can't our society oppose abortion by minimizing the circumstances in which an abortion would occur?

Sarah Pallin actively encourages rape by requiring victims to pay for their rape kits. This encourages rapists to go free and encourages more rape. And then she requires women to keep the baby.

If you truly stand for life and want to eliminate abortions, eliminate the circumstances in which abortions occur rather than practicing judicial activism or enforcing ironclad laws.

Make a pledge to virtually eliminate rape. Make a pledge to fight against birth defects and hazards to a mother's health. Reduce teen pregnancy and improve the access to birth control while encouraging the use of contraceptives. Make sure people in this country can support children, hold families together, combat influences which tear families apart, improve adoption options, reform divorce law.

Abortion is a choice. It's also never the best choice given sufficient foresight. Someone who truly believes in the right to life as a principle and not just a manipulative campaign issue can virtually eliminate abortion in this country without making it illegal, which is LESS effective at stopping abortion that addressing the causes for it.

And less government is often better government. At least, that's what Republicans say to get elected... and I'd like to see them practice it.

[KevinTBrown]

Well, no. It's factually incorrect that Obama is a Muslim. It's outside the realm of possibility.

But it's not impossible that Bristol Palin is actually not pregnant. She shows no sign of a pregnancy at all. Where is she carrying that baby...a backpack?

She was carrying him the entire time when her mother was announced as VP.....

:tongue:

[PatrickG]

See, and in my head, that sounds like "His name rhymes with Osama".

As far as I'm concerned "Palin" rhymes with "Osama".

- in favor of stripping liberties away

- supports a rural "folksy" ideal while possessing and displaying vast wealth

- supports open violence and torture promote cultural ideals

- believes in sacrificing our young for the ideals of our elderly

- believes scaring supporters into action is appropriate

- comfortable conjuring up racial and ethnic divisions

- has a religious vendetta against political adversaries


I believe in conservatism. I respect people like George Will.

But I believe the current Republican Party is a state sponsored terrorist organization that needs to be run out on a rail and replaced with conservatives who believe in civility, Reason, intellectualism, peace, equality and compassion.

[Typo Lad]

Why do you hate science? :confused:


Just kidding.

I still think you are comparing something with thin evidence to something completely silly and disproven. Not the same thing.
Evidence? There's evidence?

Okay, so let's compare it to "Obama went to a Muslim school" then.

[Typo Lad]

[QUOTE=PatrickG;7715726
But I believe the current Republican Party is a state sponsored terrorist organization t[/QUOTE]

And that's where you lose me.

[PatrickG]

Sorry, I'm not saying there's a parallel to the content, I'm saying the tactic is the same. Bring up nonsense, fringe-lunatic claims when there are so many, many real reasons to take issue.

Typo:

I don't think it has to be implied that Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy. I think it's a fair claim to accept in lieu of more evidence.

However, I think her travel path on the day her baby was born was reckless and showed that she was more concerned with her political career than the life of a baby with Down's Syndrome.

That kind of brashness and recklessness is unacceptable for a future commander-in-chief.

It would be better if the conspiracy theories about the pregnancy being faked were true. It would be strange and puzzling. But, really, I agree that it wouldn't be a major issue, IF true.

Problem is, I agree with you that it isn't a fair assumption. Instead I think she endangered the life of her own child to give a speech and have the delivery where she wanted to have it, with reckless disregard for the baby's health. Had the baby miscarried in her little Carmen Sandiego labor tour, she might have rightfully faced mansalughter charges.

[KevinTBrown]

Typo:

I don't think it has to be implied that Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy. I think it's a fair claim to accept in lieu of more evidence.

However, I think her travel path on the day her baby was born was reckless and showed that she was more concerned with her political career than the life of a baby with Down's Syndrome.

That kind of brashness and recklessness is unacceptable for a future commander-in-chief.

It would be better if the conspiracy theories about the pregnancy being faked were true. It would be strange and puzzling. But, really, I agree that it wouldn't be a major issue, IF true.

Problem is, I agree with you that it isn't a fair assumption. Instead I think she endangered the life of her own child to give a speech and have the delivery where she wanted to have it, with reckless disregard for the baby's health. Had the baby miscarried in her little Carmen Sandiego labor tour, she might have rightfully faced mansalughter charges.

I definitely agree with the bolded statement.... assuming she was indeed preggers. Eye witness accounts seem to differ.

[Typo Lad]

Typo:

I don't think it has to be implied that Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy. I think it's a fair claim to accept in lieu of more evidence.

I don't think it's a fair claim at all. There's no evidence. Lack of evidence means lack of story.

However, I think her travel path on the day her baby was born was reckless and showed that she was more concerned with her political career than the life of a baby with Down's Syndrome.

That kind of brashness and recklessness is unacceptable for a future commander-in-chief.

Now this I can see as a legit issue. I, personally, disagree. Did she know she was in active labor? Had she had false alarms before? If no and yes, then I'm not going to do much more than shake my head.

It would be better if the conspiracy theories about the pregnancy being faked were true. It would be strange and puzzling. But, really, I agree that it wouldn't be a major issue, IF true.

"Better" in the sense that you get to demonize someone instead of discussing the issues, you mean?

Problem is, I agree with you that it isn't a fair assumption.

Wait, didn't you start this post with:


I think it's a fair claim

Which is it?

Instead I think she endangered the life of her own child to give a speech and have the delivery where she wanted to have it, with reckless disregard for the baby's health. Had the baby miscarried in her little Carmen Sandiego labor tour, she might have rightfully faced mansalughter charges.

I think there are so many, many legit reasons why this woman would be a G-d awful person to have in office, that I think we don't need to bother bringing what she did or did not do with her womb on to the table.

Let's discuss the issues, not her issue.

[Typo Lad]

I definitely agree with the bolded statement.... assuming she was indeed preggers. Eye witness accounts seem to differ.

What eyewitness accounts? Lunatics?

Focus on her lack of knowledge and pride therin.

[PatrickG]

And that's where you lose me.

I don't understand what's to lose.

They support attacks on civilian targets if there is even the potential that those targets have enemies of our military in them.

They support torture. Torture does not provide valuable information and they have no ground on which to dispute this. It's strictly a fear tactic.

They believe in armed response to issues other than a clear and imminent threat to survival.

This thread hasn't had a good wikipedia0supplied definition in awhile. Here's one:


Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion."[1] There is no internationally agreed definition of terrorism.[2][3] Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal (as opposed to a lone attack), and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants. Some definitions also include acts of unlawful violence and war.

I do NOT understand how the administration of George W. Bush fails to qualify.

Our officials have violated international law and promoted ideological goals through fear and violence or encouraging others to do the same.

I believe in traditional Republicans but have real trouble distinguishing how George W. Bush or a prospective President Palin are different from Osama bin Laden.

[Typo Lad]

The issue is that your damning the entire party. You want to say the current administration and those who support it are facist thugs? Go to town. But keep in mind there were people on both sides of the isle voting yea and nae on those votes.

[KevinTBrown]

ABC News/Washington Post poll currently has Obama ahead by 10 nationally:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_101308.html

The 10 point lead is from "liklely voters".

He has a 13 point lead from "registered voters".

Just scroll down a bit to find it.

[PatrickG]

I don't think it's a fair claim at all. There's no evidence. Lack of evidence means lack of story.


I was ambiguous there. i was saying I think her version of events is the reasonable one to accept.

I don't think it's productive to go too far with this conspiracy stuff about whose baby it is. (I really think it works in her favor, perversely, if it wasn't her baby but her daughter's.)

However, I do believe that if she's going to continue to make stump speeches about abortion and her Down's Syndrome baby, how she acted during the pregnancy is a fair issue. If you claim to be a defender of life, act like it.

She said this little gem in an interview while six months pregnant:

“I like running the hills, it kills me. That’s why I like it; I mean it thrashes your guts and your lungs and your thighs.”

[PatrickG]

The issue is that your damning the entire party. You want to say the current administration and those who support it are facist thugs? Go to town. But keep in mind there were people on both sides of the isle voting yea and nae on those votes.

Ah. Well... I suppose. I tend to have more respect for guys like Barr or Hagel who HAVE pulled away in meaningful ways.

it isn't an anti-right wing thing for me. It's specifically about the GOP leadership, who have tainted the "Republican Party" proper. We need a conservative opposition party to outright replace the Republicans, IMHO, and any god fearing Republican should agree to never defend bad people in there own party and establish a distance from them so we can take the dangerous psychos and put them before a War Crimes Tribunal.

One major problem is that there are a lot of good, decent, honorable conservatives in this country and they'd rather make half-hearted excuses for members of their own party than honorably distance themselves.

My attitude is: If your son commits murder, you don't have to disown him to testify against him and make sure he does life in prison. You should never make excuses or try to spare him though.

And if a member of your party crosses a line, you should crucify him yourself rather than let the opposition do it.

[Typo Lad]

She said this little gem in an interview while six months pregnant:

Stupid, but I know others who've run at that stage.

[Charles RB]

Palin is already aiming for 2012.

Then she's even more deluded than Hillary.


Seconded.

She's joke fodder, she's been found guilty of power abuses, she's turning off conservatives who aren't either hardcore party faithful or the fringes, she visibly can't handle even an interview...

How in the hell does she or the nameless "Republican consultant" in that article think this will work? The only way she could manage this is if she spends those whole four years heavily focusing on cleaning up her act, learning interview/debate technique, doing competent things in public etc etc - and then she has to hope she's not up against a better candidate for the primary.

Which she likely will be.


Worse though is her attempt to deflect it as an attack on her child.
The GOP Vice-Presidential nominee said at an earlier fundraiser that she would stop some of the booing from the rowdy Philadelphia fans by putting her seven year old daughter, Piper in a Flyers jersey. She said, “How dare they boo Piper!”

So basically she either is so egotasitcal as to believe that, or she decided to use her child as a human shield.

...well, scratch that whole "focus on not sucking" thing.

[Nick Soapdish]

Well, no. It's factually incorrect that Obama is a Muslim. It's outside the realm of possibility.

But it's not impossible that Bristol Palin is actually not pregnant. She shows no sign of a pregnancy at all. Where is she carrying that baby...a backpack?

It's still extremely unlikely and a complete non-issue. Bringing it up is a complete waste of time because the only evidence is the unconvincing evidence to the contrary. Besides, I do know people that haven't shown signs of pregnancy until right before giving birth.

Focus on the bajillion concrete reasons that she's a bad choice for Veep rather than one that sounds like it's reaching and sensationalism.

That's why it's similar to the Barack is a Muslim charge. Instead of focusing on all the reasons that they claim he's a bad choice, they resort to one with flimsy evidence and that shouldn't be an issue anyway.

[Typo Lad]

Thank you Nick!

[KevinTBrown]

It's still extremely unlikely and a complete non-issue. Bringing it up is a complete waste of time because the only evidence is the unconvincing evidence to the contrary. Besides, I do know people that haven't shown signs of pregnancy until right before giving birth.

Focus on the bajillion concrete reasons that she's a bad choice for Veep rather than one that sounds like it's reaching and sensationalism.

That's why it's similar to the Barack is a Muslim charge. Instead of focusing on all the reasons that they claim he's a bad choice, they resort to one with flimsy evidence and that shouldn't be an issue anyway.


Ok, like focusing on the polls..?

:biggrin:

ABC News/Washington Post poll currently has Obama ahead by 10 nationally:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_101308.html

The 10 point lead is from "liklely voters".

He has a 13 point lead from "registered voters".

Just scroll down a bit to find it.

[the4thpip]

Gallup has figured out that "past voting behaviour" is missing out on the young vote and is giving us three sets of data.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/october_13_2008_gallup_trackin_1.html

The "Likely voters II" category goes by whether the people polled say they intend to vote, so it's not leaving out voters younger than 26. That group shows the same 10 point lead for Obama as the registered voters. The "old definition" likely voters group shows a smaller lead of 7 points.

[the4thpip]

The RCP "No toss ups" map now has it Obama/Biden 364 McCain/Palin 174 .

The other map moved North Dakota from Solid McCain to leading McCain, after the first poll there in a while showed Obama ahead by 2.

Madness? This is Dakotaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[darkhanamaru]

The RCP "No toss ups" map now has it Obama/Biden 364 McCain/Palin 174 .

The other map moved North Dakota from Solid McCain to leading McCain, after the first poll there in a while showed Obama ahead by 2.

Madness? This is Dakotaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

wow! that was a big swing in a month but i need to find out more about that forum poll.

[Corrina]

If you ask my personal opinion, getting on a twelve-hour flight while you might be in labor is not smart in the least and probably endangers the health of the child and one's own health.

But I don't have all the facts in evidence.

And, like Nick said, there are so many other reasons ahead of this one to hit Palin with.

Starting with being in office only 18 months and already being found to have committed abuse of power.

[TomStillwell]

If you ask my personal opinion, getting on a twelve-hour flight while you might be in labor is not smart in the least and probably endangers the health of the child and one's own health.

But I don't have all the facts in evidence.

And, like Nick said, there are so many other reasons ahead of this one to hit Palin with.

Starting with being in office only 18 months and already being found to have committed abuse of power.

At that age, knowing her baby had Down Syndrome already, it had to be a high risk birth.

My wife is a diabetic and my daughter came two weeks early. It was a high risk birth too.

Believe me, we sure as hell didn't wait twelve hours to go to a hospital. Also consider that this was Palin's fifth child. Women tend to not take as long to deliver after you pop out a couple. Waiting was astronomically stupid.

Why is this an issue? Because we've found Palin has made many stupid choices over the years. A few highlights include forging ahead to build a sports complex in Wasilla on land the town didn't own and allowing her husband a free hand to act on her behalf as governor.

This is the woman John McCain picked to be his VP. Makes you wonder, no?

[the4thpip]

ACORN seems unhappy in its new role as a villain, cast by John McCain’s campaign and others on the right as being part of a constellation of shadowy leftists behind Barack Obama’s throne.

Maybe the McCain camp’s call for an investigation of ties between the group and the Obama campaign was the last straw, because on Monday ACORN started reminding people that as recently as March 2006 McCain himself appeared at an event the group sponsored. At the time, the Republican nominee was still campaigning for the immigration reform deal that nearly killed his presidential hopes.

Michelle Malkin — who is, unsurprisingly, angry about the connection — has a press release promoting the event, while Politico’s Ben Smith has a photo of McCain smiling at a room full of ACORN volunteers (visible, Smith says, in other pictures), with a statement by the group’s chief organizer:

It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans.

We are sure that the extremists he is trying to get into a froth will be even more excited to learn that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with ACORN, at an ACORN co-sponsored event, to promote immigration reform.


http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/13/mccain_acorn/index.html

[Nick Soapdish]

At that age, knowing her baby had Down Syndrome already, it had to be a high risk birth.

My wife is a diabetic and my daughter came two weeks early. It was a high risk birth too.

Believe me, we sure as hell didn't wait twelve hours to go to a hospital. Also consider that this was Palin's fifth child. Women tend to not take as long to deliver after you pop out a couple. Waiting was astronomically stupid.

Why is this an issue? Because we've found Palin has made many stupid choices over the years. A few highlights include forging ahead to build a sports complex in Wasilla on land the town didn't own and allowing her husband a free hand to act on her behalf as governor.

This is the woman John McCain picked to be his VP. Makes you wonder, no?

So stick with all the other stupid decisions that she made - ones that affect the voters, not just her personal life.

In general, there's a limited amount of information that people are going to listen to or read about a candidate. Don't waste it criticizing her parenting.

[Nick Soapdish]

At that age, knowing her baby had Down Syndrome already, it had to be a high risk birth.

My wife is a diabetic and my daughter came two weeks early. It was a high risk birth too.

Believe me, we sure as hell didn't wait twelve hours to go to a hospital. Also consider that this was Palin's fifth child. Women tend to not take as long to deliver after you pop out a couple. Waiting was astronomically stupid.

Why is this an issue? Because we've found Palin has made many stupid choices over the years. A few highlights include forging ahead to build a sports complex in Wasilla on land the town didn't own and allowing her husband a free hand to act on her behalf as governor.

This is the woman John McCain picked to be his VP. Makes you wonder, no?

So stick with all the other stupid decisions that she made - ones that affect the voters, not just her personal life. Like the two that you just mentioned.

[TomStillwell]

So stick with all the other stupid decisions that she made - ones that affect the voters, not just her personal life.

In general, there's a limited amount of information that people are going to listen to or read about a candidate. Don't waste it criticizing her parenting.

I don't believe I have spent time criticizing her parenting. We were discussing the issue of Bristol's pregnancy and Typo made an argument that I believe didn't have merit. This is simply an extension of that discussion.

[Nick Soapdish]

I don't believe I have spent time criticizing her parenting. We were discussing the issue of Bristol's pregnancy and Typo made an argument that I believe didn't have merit. This is simply an extension of that discussion.

Bristol's pregnancy should be a non-issue as well. It's a distraction from the real criticisms at best.

But my efforts to end that distraction seem to be having the opposite effect.

[TomStillwell]

Bristol's pregnancy should be a non-issue as well. It's a distraction from the real criticisms at best.

But my efforts to end that distraction seem to be having the opposite effect.

It is a non-issue. I merely disagreed with Typo that questioning the pregnancy was the same as saying Obama was a Muslim.

It was a tangent at best.

[Stressfactor]

Bristol's pregnancy should be a non-issue as well. It's a distraction from the real criticisms at best.

But my efforts to end that distraction seem to be having the opposite effect.
Look, YABS is all about the thread derail. Sure, Bristol's pregnancy is a bit more along the lines of "Celebrity Gossip" than political discussion but just let the people get it out of their system and the discussion will soon come back to the matter at hand.

Some people want to vent and I can't say as I blame them since Palin seems to be the ultimate in "Do what I say, don't do what I do." She makes claim to Christianity and yet she totally ignores some of Christ's most basic tennants -- such as "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." She makes claims that she loves America and yet she would support and even willingly expand programs and policies that erode the very fabric of freedom and individuality of this nation that was pretty much built on misfits.

She claims that her daughter had a choice to keep or abort her baby and she's proud that her daughter made the choice to keep the baby and yet she would take that choice away from other women in a heartbeat.

So yeah, you've done your bit Nick and Typo but for now it's probably best to just let this bit of thread drift and let people get their yayas out and when it's over and done it will be just that -- over and DONE. For some of us THIS is the only place where we can express these feelings and ideas.

[rick]

"Where was John McCain when George Wallace was spreading his hate and segregationist policies at that time?" Davis said. "He was in a Vietnam prison camp betraying his country by recording confessions and revealing who his father was for better treatment while his civil rights were denied. Nobody knows how to sacrifice his morals and beliefs like John McCain does."

Sorry but POW status does not excuse bad behavior.


Goddamm it, I hate it when people force me to defend McCain, but that bit is completely out of line.

As a POW, McCain was tortured, denied medical care and brutally abused. Like just about every other POW in the war, McCain did eventually break and did make the same exact kind of recordings that almost every other POW made just so he could stay alive.

And when he had a chance to be let free early as a propaganda move, he refused.

I will not vote for the man, and I am deeply disappointed in how far he has fallen, but John McCain is a hero who has faced harder challenges then most of us will ever see.

An I have to say as a veteran, reading this kind of uncalled for political attack on a man who gave more for his country than any of us did, it makes me pretty mad.

It is beneath you.

[Michael P]

Look, YABS is all about the thread derail. Sure, Bristol's pregnancy is a bit more along the lines of "Celebrity Gossip" than political discussion but just let the people get it out of their system and the discussion will soon come back to the matter at hand.

Fuck that, the grown-ups are talking.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Goddamm it, I hate it when people force me to defend McCain, but that bit is completely out of line.

As a POW, McCain was tortured, denied medical care and brutally abused. Like just about every other POW in the war, McCain did eventually break and did make the same exact kind of recordings that almost every other POW made just so he could stay alive.

And when he had a chance to be let free early as a propaganda move, he refused.

I will not vote for the man, and I am deeply disappointed in how far he has fallen, but John McCain is a hero who has faced harder challenges then most of us will ever see.

An I have to say as a veteran, reading this kind of uncalled for political attack on a man who gave more for his country than any of us did, it makes me pretty mad.

It is beneath you.

McCain maybe a douche as a politican but you are right. He suffered and gave his service for this country. One man was on MSNBC today and he said that even though McCain knows he's losing bad , and his campaign hasn't been honorable...he still loves his country and loves serving it.

Of course I love comedy...and I love political humor by SNL and MADTV. And in this one ...you get a funny Swiftboat ad that has some fun with John McCain's service. Happy watching. (an Anti-Barack/Hillary one is next and is funny too !)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-EFP71QYg

[LtMarvel]

Did Sarah Palin get a house built for free (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/)? (Story #3)

[Evan Waters]

McCain maybe a douche as a politican but you are right. He suffered and gave his service for this country. One man was on MSNBC today and he said that even though McCain knows he's losing bad , and his campaign hasn't been honorable...he still loves his country and loves serving it.

Of course I love comedy...and I love political humor by SNL and MADTV. And in this one ...you get a funny Swiftboat ad that has some fun with John McCain's service. Happy watching. (an Anti-Barack/Hillary one is next and is funny too !)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU-EFP71QYg

I'm sorry, nothing from MADTV has ever been or ever will be funny.

[TomStillwell]

Damn! Preach it brudder!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27057346#27057346

[kingdom2000]

Goddamm it, I hate it when people force me to defend McCain, but that bit is completely out of line.

As a POW, McCain was tortured, denied medical care and brutally abused. Like just about every other POW in the war, McCain did eventually break and did make the same exact kind of recordings that almost every other POW made just so he could stay alive.

And when he had a chance to be let free early as a propaganda move, he refused.

I will not vote for the man, and I am deeply disappointed in how far he has fallen, but John McCain is a hero who has faced harder challenges then most of us will ever see.

An I have to say as a veteran, reading this kind of uncalled for political attack on a man who gave more for his country than any of us did, it makes me pretty mad.

It is beneath you.

Sorry but if your going to use your military status as pretty much the core reason as to why you should be president, the ENTIRE story is relevant to the discussion. He did break, he did use his father's to get special treatment over other prisoners, he did make confessions. Very important to note when the man is going "POW" as the explantion to all things. Do we have to worry he will break again when things get tough as president? Considering his temper and history the answer is yes. His POW status is not and never should be a get out of free card for shitty behavior.

Besides I am only using the standard that Republicans and Swift Boaters set. If they don't like that standard, they should have not established it. And the bit about his morals etc was a reference to the last eight years which has only come more pronounced in the last 4 weeks. Long story short, my "edit" is factually based considering the last 40 years of that man's history.

[KevinTBrown]

Goddamm it, I hate it when people force me to defend McCain, but that bit is completely out of line.

As a POW, McCain was tortured, denied medical care and brutally abused. Like just about every other POW in the war, McCain did eventually break and did make the same exact kind of recordings that almost every other POW made just so he could stay alive.

And when he had a chance to be let free early as a propaganda move, he refused.

I will not vote for the man, and I am deeply disappointed in how far he has fallen, but John McCain is a hero who has faced harder challenges then most of us will ever see.

An I have to say as a veteran, reading this kind of uncalled for political attack on a man who gave more for his country than any of us did, it makes me pretty mad.

It is beneath you.


Just curious, and this is not intended as a slight against you, but can anyone here (without using Yahoo or Google or any other online search engine) name anyof the other POWs in the same camp as McCain? I admit I cannot, but these men are bigger hearoes than McCain, IMO. Unlike McCain who received the best medical treatment he could get, once they found out who he was, the other POWs suffered. Yeah, he had the option to go home and turned it down, but he was treated "better" than your typical POW.

As far as I'm concerned, the man should be honored for his service, but not treated like a hero. Not while those other former POWs aren't even mentioned or thought about...

[KevinTBrown]

Damn! Preach it brudder!!!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27057346#27057346

I love Keith Olbermann.... it a totally heterosexual way, of course.

[the4thpip]

Wisconsin and Michigan (don't mess with...) moved from "leaning" to "solid Obama" today. Colorado went from Toss Up to Leaning Obama. Every day in the polls, there seems to be overwhelmingly bad news for McCain.

He has Obama right where he wants him!

[the4thpip]

There’s so much bad news for John McCain and good news for Barack Obama lately it’s hard to zero in on any one development. But a couple of things jumped out at me in the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll.

Clearly the McCain camp decided weeks ago that its only hope was bludgeoning Obama, turning him into a terrorist-loving caricature. They pretty much said that to reporters. And while that’s gone over big at McCain-Palin rallies, where they call Obama a “terrorist” and a “traitor,” and carry stuffed monkeys with Obama stickers on their foreheads, it hasn’t worked with the American people. In fact, more people now consider McCain the “risky” choice for president: 50 percent of those polled called McCain risky, vs. 45 percent for Obama, while 29 percent considered Obama a “very safe” choice, vs. only 18 percent for McCain. Oh, and by the way: McCain’s negatives have climbed 9 percent since the last poll.

Let’s take that in: John McCain the war hero, the straight talk guy with the long history as a bipartisan stalwart in Congress. John McCain is now a more risky choice for president than a first-term senator by the name of Barack Hussein Obama? There is a god.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/10/14/mccain_troubles/index.html

[Stressfactor]

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/10/14/mccain_troubles/index.html

Yeah, they were actually talking about that on NPR yesterday morning. McCain going negative has backfired because his own negative numbers have gone up. The experts said that in past years negative ads have worked but this year the American people just don't seem to be in the mood for it.

In short -- people have had ENOUGH of the bullshit. Times are tough, things are ugly and the vast majority of people know it and they don't want to hear that this person or that person is BAD because of who they hung out with. People don't care about the past this year -- the theme instead is -- what have you done for me LATELY and what are you going to do in the future?