2008 U.S. Presidential Election Mega thread [Archive] - Page 35

Stressfactor

10-06-2008, 08:21 AM

Huh? I see no ethical problem with pulling out of Michigan.

The McCain campaign just handled it horribly incompetently, leading to a PR fallout.I think that is rather Kevin's point... No, it isn't an ethical issue but it does say volumes about someone who wants to have their cake and eat it too and is so focused on winning at all costs they are willing to basically publicly throw people under the train to accomplish it.

Is that the mindset we want for the presidency? At least past presidents were better at HIDING things when they threw people under the train. Here McCain is just out-and-out doing it... Plus, on the 'having cake and eating it too' he's basically saying "I'm not going to devote any more of my resources to helping you help me but I still want you to go out there and help me."

I think McCain is desperate for the presidency and I think he KNOWS that this is really his last chance. He's 72 and if he's even still around four years later and in reasonable health he'll be 76 and I think he knows that there is no way the American people would take a chance on electing a 76 year-old person to such a strenous position. So he has to make it this year or not at all.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-06-2008, 08:21 AM

I don't believe it. In pretty much the entire history of campaigning, negative ads result in a neutral gain or a postive gain. The goal is for the "undecideds" to have a negative memory about another candidate when they vote as its just simple human nature that we remember the negative of a person far more easily then a positive.

And before you go "no! thats not true cause i don't do that!!!", I remind you of your bosses. You know those people that don't remember that you did something right 1000 times, just that you did something wrong 1 time. That is the McCain goal, get people to remember that one time. And since republicans, morals, and integrity don't belong in the same sentence, it makes it especially easier for them. Hell, if that Keating ad is true, I give it half a day before they call foul about Obama going negative.

Cause really, if someone is undecided at this point, they can't be terribly bright with ALL the information that is available to them at this point to make a thoughtful decision. More positive is clearly not going to work at this point.

Whats really weird about this election is that thus far cheap catchphrases and slogans aren't hitting as much as they should be. Years ago Palin and McCain likely would have scored TD's with them yelling "MAVERICKS" and how they are against the elite over and over. People would buy into that dance perhaps.

But now ....things have changed. People aren't buying into it. The world has changed as these disastors have maybe woke them up finally. Maybe it took fear of a Great Depression II , to make some realize... McCain is a Republican and he was there going along the whole way....

Seeing as how fancy catchphrases aren't hitting any better and its 2 days after he started his mudslinging ..what are the bets it will work with these angry pissed voters at McCain ? Perhaps it will show a desperate angry man who wants to win so bad and will actually alienate more than help.

I think the negative ads in this enviroment of anger at the Republicans could piss more off at McCain since some could view it as him angry he's losing to Obama.

Buzz Dixon

10-06-2008, 08:51 AM

As has been pointed out elsewhere, if one is going to withdraw from a state WHY ANNOUNCE IT?!?!? Just shift resources elsewhere and don't campaign there; if anyone asks say the schedule is in flux. To announce one is abandoning a state is to further depress your base in that state and make it difficult for other candidates on your party's ticket to get a good turnout.

the4thpip

10-06-2008, 09:11 AM

I think that is rather Kevin's point... No, it isn't an ethical issue but it does say volumes about someone who wants to have their cake and eat it too and is so focused on winning at all costs they are willing to basically publicly throw people under the train to accomplish it.

Is that the mindset we want for the presidency? At least past presidents were better at HIDING things when they threw people under the train. Here McCain is just out-and-out doing it... Plus, on the 'having cake and eating it too' he's basically saying "I'm not going to devote any more of my resources to helping you help me but I still want you to go out there and help me."

I think McCain is desperate for the presidency and I think he KNOWS that this is really his last chance. He's 72 and if he's even still around four years later and in reasonable health he'll be 76 and I think he knows that there is no way the American people would take a chance on electing a 76 year-old person to such a strenous position. So he has to make it this year or not at all.

In this day and age, I doubt that a lot of "losing" candidates would get a second chance by the American people. Maybe Al Gore, but he won the popular vote (and would have won the whole thing if every vote in Florida had been counted properly).

Stressfactor

10-06-2008, 09:49 AM

In his day and age, I doubt that a lot of "losing" candidates would get a second chance by the American people. Maybe Al Gore, but he won the popular vote (and would have won the whole thing if every vote in Florida had been counted properly).

Well, considering how many times he's thrown his hat in the ring so far I wouldn't put it past him to try. Probably wouldn't get past the Primary stage but I could see him trying.... Provided he's still alive.

And just for the record here -- I'm not trying to CURSE the man or anything but my own father was in reasonably good health at 72 and by 76 he was dead from lung cancer so I'm speaking from some experience here.

FalconX2000

10-06-2008, 10:04 AM

McCain wants to raise the white flag of surrender in Michigan. If he has his way, the sacrifices of so many volunteers will have been in vain. His plans are irresponsible and reckless. Pulling out of Michigan now would galvanise the politically disinterested and send the wrong message to the apatheticists who hate us for our freedo- uhh enthusiasm. Obama could stay there for 10 years, maybe a hundred. But he will make sure our volunteers come back with victory and honor.

I think that is rather Kevin's point... No, it isn't an ethical issue but it does say volumes about someone who wants to have their cake and eat it too and is so focused on winning at all costs they are willing to basically publicly throw people under the train to accomplish it.

Is that the mindset we want for the presidency? At least past presidents were better at HIDING things when they threw people under the train. Here McCain is just out-and-out doing it... Plus, on the 'having cake and eating it too' he's basically saying "I'm not going to devote any more of my resources to helping you help me but I still want you to go out there and help me."

I think McCain is desperate for the presidency and I think he KNOWS that this is really his last chance. He's 72 and if he's even still around four years later and in reasonable health he'll be 76 and I think he knows that there is no way the American people would take a chance on electing a 76 year-old person to such a strenous position. So he has to make it this year or not at all.

I really don't see how McCain could possibly have thought there would be any political advantage in making the Michigan pullout prominent.

It seems to me he decided to pull out of Michigan and his campaign stumbled all over themselves in the execution.

Michael P

10-06-2008, 10:10 AM

Charles RB

10-06-2008, 10:13 AM

Samuel Catalino

10-06-2008, 10:29 AM

It is funny...I suppose ya missed Sudakis playing Biden : "Scranton PA is a real HELLHOLE...don't go there....its hell people !"

So you think insulting Scranton is funny. About as funny as the small town Pennsylvanians?

I love how Fey could actually walk out and play Palin in real life. And not many could tell....with her being a fool and all.

She was funny one time, but it is old now. It was like making fun of Clinton during his issues, it is too easy.

Chase was sadly a physical comedian...he took falls on SNL and in movies. His falls pretty much hurt him and led to a painkiller addiction. It also made him an asshole to the SNL casts later...as the book has showed.
He did not get along well with John Belusi or Lorne Michaels either and Murray loathed him. A jerk is a jerk. As Malcom X said, Chickens have come home to roost.

Political humor has always been a hit on SNL. When they ripped Ford , Reagan , Bush , Clinton and hell...even Nixon.

You mean that they did not bother with Carter? Nixon was out of office a year when SNL debuted, so much they did on him I do not know. He was no longer relevant.

Samuel Catalino

10-06-2008, 10:36 AM

Getting info from a disposable drinking container better than any other news outlet? Sam, man, you must be smoking shit I haven't done since college.

Here's novel concept about the news rather than resorting to false dichotomies. Read lots of news sources, fact check sources independently, and keep absorbing and checking information. That's cheaper than drinking caramel mochiattos all day hoping an aphorism will tell you the weather.

When you can not trust the newspapers and television for accuracy, yes. Which is why Jon Stewart is taken seriously along with Colbert.

When one source tells a falsehood, it spreads rapidly like wildfire. Just like the one that says Junior is a Muslim.

Albright's quotation was not a political statement, for one.

More importantly, though, in a political context, "support" is often synonymous with "vote for." "Help" is an apolitical word.

What was it, a proverb?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/support

Not in the context it was used.

Samuel Catalino

10-06-2008, 10:38 AM

And now the Keating Five scandal rears its ugly head: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14302.html

Again, both Glenn and McCain were cleared of wrongdoing, and only guilty of bad judgement.

Like the house that Junior bought with the interference of Rezko's wife.

Infra-Man

10-06-2008, 11:22 AM

When you can not trust the newspapers and television for accuracy, yes. Which is why Jon Stewart is taken seriously along with Colbert.

When one source tells a falsehood, it spreads rapidly like wildfire. Just like the one that says Junior is a Muslim.

I seem to recall a certain "Obama is a Muslim" video you posted where you helped spread the fire rather than seek out the context of the full video and use common sense to dispel the inaccurate portrayal of Obama as a Muslim. Do you mean that you are complicit in the problem of inaccurate or false news? Do you intend to remain part of the problem?

They say that all that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good people do nothing. Same goes for misinformation and lies. Stop being part of the problem and use your common sense.

What was it, a proverb?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/support

Not in the context it was used.

Look at definition #2a.

2 a (1): to promote the interests or cause of (2): to uphold or defend as valid or right : advocate <supports fair play> (3): to argue or vote for <supported the motion to lower taxes>

In a political rally for a prospective vice president, "support" takes on the political context regarding the notion of voting. "Help," the actual word Albright used, is apolitical and using the proper word divorces it from any notion of voting or political support.

When someone says "I support candidate X" or "I support proposition ###," that means that they intend to vote for that person or proposition. When you speak of whom someone intends to vote for, they refer to themselves as "Obama supporters" or "McCain supporters."

Now, it's clear to me that you are either obtuse or illiterate, or perhaps a mix of the two given what we've learned about your poor educational background that tauught you nothing of basic American history (e.g., key U.S. Supreme Court cases). I'd be happy to teach you more about our wonderful English language at a later time, though.

the4thpip

10-06-2008, 12:14 PM

Two new polls at RCP have double digit leads for Obama in Virginia. But they still consider it a toss-up. One more poll like that, and Obama will be over 270 even in the map where toss ups are not included.

McCain is crashing and burning. I stand by my prediction that even Arizona will be very, very close.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-06-2008, 12:57 PM

So you think insulting Scranton is funny. About as funny as the small town Pennsylvanians?

Considering it was a comedy sketch and Sudakis nailed it....yes. It was funny as hell. He stole Fey's thunder with that sketch. And as they say in the enertainment industry "IT KILLED" .

She was funny one time, but it is old now. It was like making fun of Clinton during his issues, it is too easy.

Its so easy...because Palin is basically writing the SNL material ala Bush . Its so scary that SNL has stumbled into a character who writes herself like Bush Sr. did with Carvey.

He did not get along well with John Belushi or Lorne Michaels either and Murray loathed him. A jerk is a jerk. As Malcom X said, Chickens have come home to roost.

Belushi as the 25th Anniversy book and interviews with others have said....got a bit jealous of Chase. And Dan A. said it festered with John since he was doing characters and was generally considered "More funny" than Chevy. Its just that Chevy became a star yelling his name out ...and stole the thunder. When Chase left and came back in year #2 or #3....he had basically gotten in Bill Murray's ear and got him mad at Chevy.

Murray admited he had no real problems with Chase but was young and let John push him into a fight with Chase. Lorne has said Chase should have done the show longer and he would have had a longer Hollywood career. I could see heat there.....anyhow he would come back and was an asshole to the 1986-1992 cast and the 1996-2002 cast too.

You mean that they did not bother with Carter? Nixon was out of office a year when SNL debuted, so much they did on him I do not know. He was no longer relevant.

They did Jimmy Carter...a lot. Thanks for reminding me. They have mocked every political guy in the last 30 years. Its not just "poor Sarah Palin..." Its everyone...and for now McCain , Palin , Biden and Obama are fair funny game.

king mob

10-06-2008, 01:17 PM

The British ambassador to Washington is reported as saying Obama is 'aloof' & Sarah Palin has to apologise about lying that she actually met our ambassador to Washington.

The British ambassador to Washington has described US presidential hopeful Barack Obama as "highly intelligent" but at times "aloof", reports say.

Sir Nigel Sheinwald also said Mr Obama was untested and if elected would "have less of a track record than any recent president", the Daily Telegraph said.

The comments came in a letter sent to UK PM Gordon Brown in July, it added.

Sarah Palin has meanwhile apologised after mistakenly saying she had met Sir Nigel in July, the Daily Mail reported.

The Republican vice-presidential nominee's campaign said a meeting between the two occurred at the US National Governors Association in Philadelphia, but an embassy spokesman said the ambassador had withdrawn at the last minute.

Ms Palin has faced strong criticism that she lacks experience in foreign policy. She only got a passport last year and had not met a foreign head of state until last week.
'Star quality'

The UK embassy in Washington declined to comment on the reports of Sir Nigel's comments about Mr Obama.

In the seven-page letter reportedly sent on the eve of Mr Obama's visit to London in July, marked as containing "sensitive judgements", Sir Nigel is said to paint a mixed picture of the Democratic Party's presidential candidate.

The ambassador describes Mr Obama's speeches as "elegant" and "mesmerising" and states that he is "highly intelligent" and has "star quality", according to a copy of the document reportedly seen by the Telegraph.

But Sir Nigel is also said to warn that "there is little Obama track record to refer back to".

"Obama's politics and policies are still evolving," he is quoted as saying. "His Illinois and US Senate careers give us only a few clues as to his likely priorities in office.

"In the Senate... his voting record was decidedly liberal. But the main impression is of someone who was finding his feet, and then got diverted by his presidential ambitions."

Sir Nigel is also said to identify several weaknesses which Mr Obama's Republican rival, John McCain, is likely to exploit in the last month of campaigning.

Mr Obama "can seem to sit on the fence, assiduously balancing pros and cons", he reportedly says, and "does betray a highly-educated and upper middle class mindset".

Charges of elitism "are not entirely unfair" and he is "maybe aloof, insensitive" at times, Sir Nigel is said to add.

The paper also quotes Sir Nigel as telling the prime minister that Mr Obama's stance towards Iran might conflict with UN Security Council demands that it stop enriching uranium before negotiations with the West resume.

However, the ambassador does say the Democratic candidate's policy on Iraq would "be consistent" with that of the UK government.

Last month, Mr Brown was accused by the opposition Conservative Party of taking sides in the US election after he praised the Democrats in a magazine article and cited one of Mr Obama's proposals to help families. Mr McCain was not mentioned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7650373.stm

the4thpip

10-06-2008, 01:24 PM

So. Sarah Palin likes taking Obama quotes out of context, eh?

Dave Letterman is giving her a taste of her own medicine.
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=iZsO7dZ__iw

Royal

10-06-2008, 01:32 PM

SUPERECWFAN1

10-06-2008, 01:36 PM

So. Sarah Palin likes taking Obama quotes out of context, eh?

Dave Letterman is giving her a taste of her own medicine.
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=iZsO7dZ__iw

That decision to piss off David Letterman is really helping John McCain isn't it ?

the4thpip

10-06-2008, 02:08 PM

That decision to piss off David Letterman is really helping John McCain isn't it ?

They are playing the media like a musician plays an instrument...

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x230/Blackhwk72sal55/smashing-guitar-gif.gif

Alex Scott

10-06-2008, 04:12 PM

Correction:

They're playing the media like a stoned grizzly bear plays an instrument.

TomStillwell

10-06-2008, 04:57 PM

Good post over at Huffington about Obama and Ayers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-k-wilson/30-lies-refuted-about-aye_b_132109.html

KevinTBrown

10-06-2008, 05:43 PM

Pot. Kettle..... welll, you know. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_el_pr/mccain) :rolleyes:

Royal

10-06-2008, 05:51 PM

Jim Cramer: "Get Out of The Stock Market." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeApOeHvxOo)

KevinTBrown

10-06-2008, 05:52 PM

Fey & Palin, side by side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqdfzi1Ega0&feature=related

Arrogantcur

10-06-2008, 06:24 PM

Pot. Kettle..... welll, you know. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_el_pr/mccain) :rolleyes:

"All people want to know is: What has this man ever actually accomplished in government? What does he plan for America?" McCain said. "But ask such questions and all you get in response is another angry barrage of insults."

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I...fucking...HATE...John McCain more than ever.

kingdom2000

10-06-2008, 07:29 PM

Jim Cramer: "Get Out of The Stock Market." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeApOeHvxOo)

I just cut off my 401k. Its already lost nearly 3000 in value. I am not going to add to it until things settle.

It just reminds me that thank god the republican's party's "Business First, Country Last" philosophy didn't get extended to Social Security.

Kid Kamikaze10

10-06-2008, 08:46 PM

Jim Cramer: "Get Out of The Stock Market." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeApOeHvxOo)

Holy s**t...

He sounded broken... This is a guy that usually ranting, raving, and yelling all the time... And now...

What has happened to my (our if you are from the US) country?

Infra-Man

10-06-2008, 09:11 PM

Pot. Kettle..... welll, you know. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_el_pr/mccain) :rolleyes:

When cornered and behind in the polls, the johcrotalus mcCatrox will flail madly in all directions, spitting venom wantonly in hopes of wounding or subduing whatever animals are in the general vicinity. Rather than appearing, threatening, however, johcrotalus mcCatrox looks sad, feeble, rather pathetic in this display of fury.

EDIT:
My prediction: If there's an N-bomb to be dropped, it will be dropped by a McCain supporter at a McCain/Palin rally. If they're yelling out "terrorist" at McCain's rallies in reference to Obama, I have a bad feeling someone will say something worse.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-06-2008, 09:35 PM

When cornered and behind in the polls, the johcrotalus mcCatrox will flail madly in all directions, spitting venom wantonly in hopes of wounding or subduing whatever animals are in the general vicinity. Rather than appearing, threatening, however, johcrotalus mcCatrox looks sad, feeble, rather pathetic in this display of fury.

EDIT:
My prediction: If there's an N-bomb to be dropped, it will be dropped by a McCain supporter at a McCain/Palin rally. If they're yelling out "terrorist" at McCain's rallies in reference to Obama, I have a bad feeling someone will say something worse.

They just did....during a rally by Palin she was stirring that Obama is a terrorist ...one yelled out "KILL HIM !"

The McCain campaign did nothing to come out and make a stand against it. Making their campaign even uglier...as a result.

Black Atom

10-06-2008, 09:44 PM

Aw, crap. Where's Zeu? I guess he was right all along.

The U.S. Army has drafted a new operations manual that elevates the mission of stabilizing war-torn nations, making it equal in importance to defeating adversaries on the battlefield.

Military officials described the new document, the first new edition of the army's basic comprehensive doctrine since 2001, as a major development that draws on the hard-learned lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan, where initial military successes gave way to long, grueling struggles to establish control.

It is also an illustration of how far the Pentagon has moved beyond George W. Bush's stance, frequently stated in his first presidential campaign eight years ago, against the use of the military to support "nation building" efforts.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/08/america/military.php

Well, at least Bush was on my side...

Infra-Man

10-06-2008, 09:54 PM

They just did....during a rally by Palin she was stirring that Obama is a terrorist ...one yelled out "KILL HIM !"

The McCain campaign did nothing to come out and make a stand against it. Making their campaign even uglier...as a result.

...wow.

At this rate, I'm assuming the first ugly racial crowd outburst will involve something about lynching.

Wonder what's going through his head when "terrorist" is yelled:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buyVS9fRqkw

Is he thinking, "Jesus, John, what are you doing"? Is he thinking, "Yes, my pretties, let us get ugly"? Is he thinking, "Man, this next sentence is going to seem really ironic"?

kingdom2000

10-06-2008, 11:01 PM

I look at this distraction that McCain is trying to generate and the decision still remains simple.

Support the guy that supposedly knows a terrorist that was so bad at his "job" that he failed to kill anyone or support the guy that helped a banker cost the country billions of dollars, untold number of jobs and did untold amount of damage to millions of American citizens (which sounds like terrorist-like behavior to me, even if the cause is greed).

So which is worse ...the one that killed no one or the one that destroyed who knows how many lives?

Royal

10-06-2008, 11:11 PM

C-Cool

10-06-2008, 11:35 PM

Jim Cramer: "Get Out of The Stock Market." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeApOeHvxOo)

Now that is a neutering experience.

If he was a drinking man, Cramer would be in a deeper alcoholism hole than fricken Tony Starks in "Demon in a Bottle".

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 01:47 AM

Great map, and I hope it does work out that way, but I don't see Obama taking Nevada and Missouri, regardless of current trends.

Latest Rasmussen polls have him up 3 and 4 respectively!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nv/nevada_mccain_vs_obama-252.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/mo/missouri_mccain_vs_obama-545.html

Which brings us closer to the map I predicted...
Obama/Biden 364 McCain/Palin 174 as of today.

Lester C.

10-07-2008, 02:31 AM

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 02:57 AM

A new poll stated that 60 percent of Americans the United States is heading into a Depression. While most experts, thank god, disagree with that, the fact that so many Americans think we are headed to a Depression can't bode well for the incumbent party in the 2008 election.

The right track/wrong track poll put the "right track" number in single digits for the first time since they're asking that question. :eek:

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 03:04 AM

Senate picture looks rosy for Democrats

With even the most dedicated Republicans admitting that the GOP's in a bad way, it's not surprising that the damage has leaked down from the top of the ballot.

A pair of polls posted at Political Wire show hitherto-safe Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) in a toss-up race for reelection. Chambliss joins not-quite-neighbors Sen. Elizabeth Dole (R-N.C.) and Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) in an unexpected struggle for a supposedly safe seat. All this seems to confirm the point made in the last week by both Nate Silver and Politico: Senate Republicans are facing catastrophe.

In addition to Georgia, Kentucky and North Carolina, Republican senators in Mississippi, Oregon, Minnesota and New Hampshire are in serious dogfights to hold their seats, and the party has all but given up on New Mexico, Colorado, Virginia and Alaska. Nate Silver even suggests that Texas might be lurching into play. The Democrats, on the other hand, only need to mount a defense for one senator, Louisiana's Mary Landrieu.

That adds up, by the way, to eleven competitive Republican seats -- twelve if you count Texas, which still seems like a big stretch. The Democrats need to pick up nine seats to hit a total of 60, the magic number where they can overcome filibusters. (They'll need 10 seats if they dispense with Joe Lieberman.) Because of the 60 vote requirement, the Senate has often been where major progressive reforms go to die: the Clinton White House's failure to pull off an end run around the filibuster was instrumental to the defeat of the health care proposal, for instance. If Barack Obama wins the presidency, the size of the Democrats' Senate majority would likely determine whether an Obama administration is successful in passing its legislative agenda.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/06/senate_democrats/index.html

Samuel Catalino

10-07-2008, 03:20 AM

I seem to recall a certain "Obama is a Muslim" video you posted where you helped spread the fire rather than seek out the context of the full video and use common sense to dispel the inaccurate portrayal of Obama as a Muslim. Do you mean that you are complicit in the problem of inaccurate or false news? Do you intend to remain part of the problem?

Please cite the alleged post. The video I posted had nothing to do with Junior. Nor did it even mention Junior. It was a collection of comments that Democrats made about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

They say that all that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good people do nothing. Same goes for misinformation and lies. Stop being part of the problem and use your common sense.

I am not part of the problem. Common sense is not so common.

Look at definition #2a.

Look at all of the definitions.

In a political rally for a prospective vice president, "support" takes on the political context regarding the notion of voting. "Help," the actual word Albright used, is apolitical and using the proper word divorces it from any notion of voting or political support.

You remind me of Humpty Dumpty.

When someone says "I support candidate X" or "I support proposition ###," that means that they intend to vote for that person or proposition. When you speak of whom someone intends to vote for, they refer to themselves as "Obama supporters" or "McCain supporters."

Using your definition, does that mean people who support the environment intend to vote for the environment? How does one vote for the environment?

Now, it's clear to me that you are either obtuse or illiterate, or perhaps a mix of the two given what we've learned about your poor educational background that tauught you nothing of basic American history (e.g., key U.S. Supreme Court cases). I'd be happy to teach you more about our wonderful English language at a later time, though.

Before you volunteer your services to teach English, may I suggest you learn to spell. It amuses me to no end that someone who accuses me of being illiterate has a difficulty of spelling 'taught.' How are you going to teach anyone a subject where it is painfully apparent you do not have the command of the subject?

Samuel Catalino

10-07-2008, 03:31 AM

Considering it was a comedy sketch and Sudakis nailed it....yes. It was funny as hell. He stole Fey's thunder with that sketch. And as they say in the enertainment industry "IT KILLED" .

I am sure it really "killed" the viewers in Scranton.

Its so easy...because Palin is basically writing the SNL material ala Bush . Its so scary that SNL has stumbled into a character who writes herself like Bush Sr. did with Carvey.

If Palin is writing the SNL material, shouldn't she get credit? Which Bush Sr are you referring to? If you are referring to GHWB, he is not a Sr anymore that GWB is a Jr.

Belushi as the 25th Anniversy book and interviews with others have said....got a bit jealous of Chase. And Dan A. said it festered with John since he was doing characters and was generally considered "More funny" than Chevy. Its just that Chevy became a star yelling his name out ...and stole the thunder. When Chase left and came back in year #2 or #3....he had basically gotten in Bill Murray's ear and got him mad at Chevy.

Which does not refute that Chase did not get along with Belushi.

Murray admited he had no real problems with Chase but was young and let John push him into a fight with Chase. Lorne has said Chase should have done the show longer and he would have had a longer Hollywood career. I could see heat there.....anyhow he would come back and was an asshole to the 1986-1992 cast and the 1996-2002 cast too.

No real problems other than punches were thrown between Chase and Murray. I don't think he still likes him to this day.

They did Jimmy Carter...a lot. Thanks for reminding me. They have mocked every political guy in the last 30 years. Its not just "poor Sarah Palin..." Its everyone...and for now McCain , Palin , Biden and Obama are fair funny game.

You have to wonder how much. I wonder if anyone did a measure of time of all the political people who they have mocked to see if one received more than the other.

Charles RB

10-07-2008, 03:39 AM

Jim Cramer: "Get Out of The Stock Market." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeApOeHvxOo)

...he sounded like he was about to cry.

kingdom2000

10-07-2008, 03:58 AM

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/06/senate_democrats/index.html

I would love for chambliss to not get elected. People should have an internal 2 term limit for any politician regardless of party. Part of the problem is this advantage incumbents have whether its deserved or not. A turnover rate scares the crap out of career politicians and helps focus them on more worthwhile goals (such as fighting to keep job rather then assuming its a fait accompli).

kingdom2000

10-07-2008, 04:16 AM

On another note, Keith Olbermann had another special comment and he did a good job of using the Republican Transitive Property of Terrorism (my naming for what McSame is doing) to "prove" that Palin and McCain association and support of terrorists is a much graver nature then Obama. After all their associations with terrorists have destroyed lives while Obama's just destroyed buildings.

Going by McCain and Palin's own arguments I guess our choice is down to who is less the supporter of terrorists. Since McCain's terrorists cost us $500 billion and destroyed unknown number of lives and families with failed businesses, job less, etc and Palin's cause the death of a woman, its pretty clear who not to choose. So by the Republican Transistive Property, Palin and McCain hate America, the Middle Class, and Freedom and clearly seek our financial destruction (and witchcraft).

Solaris

10-07-2008, 05:36 AM

Not sure if this has been posted here or not; it's definitely worth the read (and thanks again to whoever posted it in another thread):

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/page/1

And the McCain campaign is apparently further shifting gears away from talking about the economy and issues, and instead going straight for more mudslinging against character:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGxM9J

C'mon, people: don't let rhetoric and "rah rah" tactics distract you from looking for discussion of what each potential president will actually *do* in office---and straight talk about what each of these men (and their VP candidates) have done in the past, on our issues.

Yes, I'm voting Obama. He at least addresses the issues and wants to try to fix them. John McCain is only interested in John McCain, has a lifelong track record of taking whatever route will advance him and damn the ethics and the law, of actively using family pull to clout his way out of any kind of reprimand or reprisal for heinous behavior as both a naval officer and as a senator, and even many republicans have admitted he has a truly horrible hair-trigger temper. Do we want a man like this anywhere near the ability to take us to war, and especially, to hold the decision on whether or not to use nuclear arms? Do we want a man in office who's already been up before the Senate Ethics Committee for his actions that helped Keating rob millions of US in the S&L crisis? A man who ALWAYS puts his corporate backers' interest first---to a degree that shocks even longterm Congressmen who've been "on the take" to some degree themselves for years---and who puts the American Public last?

BnL

10-07-2008, 05:44 AM

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/10/06/senate_democrats/index.html

Which reminds me, for those of you living in Colorado, be sure to cast a vote for Betsy Markey. She's running against Marilyn Musgrave, but you might remember her as That-Homophobic-Cunt-Who-Sponsored-The-Federal-Marriage-Amendment-To-Ban-Gay-Unions. It's time this bitch got kicked out of Congress.

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 06:36 AM

Please cite the alleged post. The video I posted had nothing to do with Junior. Nor did it even mention Junior. It was a collection of comments that Democrats made about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522185&postcount=6301

Things that make you go "Hmmm." Planting seeds of misinformation rather than digging for truth, Sam.

I am not part of the problem. Common sense is not so common.

As you demonstrate so well.

Look at all of the definitions.

Using your definition, does that mean people who support the environment intend to vote for the environment? How does one vote for the environment?

Do you understand the notion of context and how words alter in different contexts? How at a political rally, the word "support" in a misquoted piece of text takes on a different meaning than the word "support" in another context? In no way did I mean to imply that "support" only takes on definition 2a, but in a political setting (which is the common setting for political rallies), "support" is synonymous with "vote for."

Before you volunteer your services to teach English, may I suggest you learn to spell. It amuses me to no end that someone who accuses me of being illiterate has a difficulty of spelling 'taught.' How are you going to teach anyone a subject where it is painfully apparent you do not have the command of the subject?

I'll admit that an occassional typo creeps up in my posts, but that doesn't disqualify me from attempting to teach you about the simple notion of words and their context. I'd rather admit my faults than seem willfully obtuse, as you seem to be.

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 06:39 AM

Jim Cramer: "Get Out of The Stock Market." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeApOeHvxOo)

Shit... wonder what his sound board will sound like now.

LtMarvel

10-07-2008, 06:40 AM

Latest Rasmussen polls have him up 3 and 4 respectively!
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nv/nevada_mccain_vs_obama-252.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/mo/missouri_mccain_vs_obama-545.html

Which brings us closer to the map I predicted...
Obama/Biden 364 McCain/Palin 174 as of today.
www.electoral-vote.com, for the first time since it has been heads up, has Obama over the winning 270 mark, 304 - 163 (71 statistical ties, of which only IN leans McCain).

KevinTBrown

10-07-2008, 06:42 AM

Not sure if this has been posted here or not; it's definitely worth the read (and thanks again to whoever posted it in another thread):

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/page/1

Yep, that's been posted before, but always worth posting again. :biggrin:

And the McCain campaign is apparently further shifting gears away from talking about the economy and issues, and instead going straight for more mudslinging against character:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGxM9J

Of course McCain will do anything to disract right now. I think it too little too late though. This financial crisis hit at the wrong time for him, now he's sinking like a rock.

C'mon, people: don't let rhetoric and "rah rah" tactics distract you from looking for discussion of what each potential president will actually *do* in office---and straight talk about what each of these men (and their VP candidates) have done in the past, on our issues.

Yes, I'm voting Obama. He at least addresses the issues and wants to try to fix them. John McCain is only interested in John McCain, has a lifelong track record of taking whatever route will advance him and damn the ethics and the law, of actively using family pull to clout his way out of any kind of reprimand or reprisal for heinous behavior as both a naval officer and as a senator, and even many republicans have admitted he has a truly horrible hair-trigger temper. Do we want a man like this anywhere near the ability to take us to war, and especially, to hold the decision on whether or not to use nuclear arms? Do we want a man in office who's already been up before the Senate Ethics Committee for his actions that helped Keating rob millions of US in the S&L crisis? A man who ALWAYS puts his corporate backers' interest first---to a degree that shocks even longterm Congressmen who've been "on the take" to some degree themselves for years---and who puts the American Public last?

I cannot wait to see tonight's debate. McCain will do all he can to put on his game face, but even he has to realize he's lost this race. All he can hope for now is something suprememly damaging to come out against Obama (which, if it didn't happen with Clinton, won't happen now).

I expect to see McCain blow tonight during the debate. He took a hard hit for not looking at Obama at the last debate, and if he does at this debate he'll go ballastic. He's notorious for not being able to actually face someone without blowing up in anger when he's being told he's wrong, especially when he is wrong!

Typo Lad

10-07-2008, 07:04 AM

Had an interesting moment in Small Town, Upstate NY on Sunday. This is a one-horse town in many ways, and very old fashioned. By which I mean to say, there's a whole lot of casual racism. Nothing active, but that mind-numbing, passive "well, that's how it was when I was a boy and I didn't see nothin' wrong with it" racism. In some ways, that kind is a bit worse to me.

The discussion rose to politics. Amazingly, the room was resoundingly anti-McCain. Even the most credulous made a comment to the extent of "I didn't want to vote for Obama and I won't. I'm voting against McCain."

It seems some of the older generation, many of whom were around for the last Depression, aren't stupid, and know that a "maverick" who voted with the administration almost constantly as their policies sank our nation isn't going to change anything. In fact, a lot seemed insulted by the campaign, for reasons we've mentioned here ("Mental recession", "Pork is bad and evil and I'll make famous the people who push for it - um, except in this very pivotal bit of legislation" "this election isn't about the issues" "The fundamentals of our economy are strong - hey that's not what I meant!"")

Anecdotal, but I thought some might find it interesting.

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 07:15 AM

Obama is staying at Gladys Knight's house in North Carolina, rumor has it.

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 07:18 AM

Debate Analysis From Wasilla

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=186790&title=debate-analysis-from-wasilla

Samuel Catalino

10-07-2008, 10:58 AM

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522185&postcount=6301

Things that make you go "Hmmm." Planting seeds of misinformation rather than digging for truth, Sam.

And it was from Junior's mouth, not mine. Take it up with him on his own misinformation, I just thought it was hysterical. It was even funnier than his 57 states comment.

Do you understand the notion of context and how words alter in different contexts? How at a political rally, the word "support" in a misquoted piece of text takes on a different meaning than the word "support" in another context? In no way did I mean to imply that "support" only takes on definition 2a, but in a political setting (which is the common setting for political rallies), "support" is synonymous with "vote for."

This reminds me of Humpty Dumpty.

I'll admit that an occassional typo creeps up in my posts, but that doesn't disqualify me from attempting to teach you about the simple notion of words and their context. I'd rather admit my faults than seem willfully obtuse, as you seem to be.

If you are going to condescend and try to instruct someone,, it might behoove you to master the subject. You made a fool out of yourself, and damaged your credibility in that exchange.

Samuel Catalino

10-07-2008, 11:00 AM

Obama is staying at Gladys Knight's house in North Carolina, rumor has it.

Maybe he will take the Midnight Train to Georgia.

Whoops, I forgot, Junior pulled a lot of the campaign out of Georgia.

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 11:05 AM

And it was from Junior's mouth, not mine. Take it up with him on his own misinformation, I just thought it was hysterical. It was even funnier than his 57 states comment.

But you forget the context.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522415&postcount=6329

This reminds me of Humpty Dumpty.

The explication of how context affects the meaning of words reminds you of an anthropomorphic egg? How so?

EDIT:
And, "Oh no, I look like a fool on the internet to someone whose approval I do not seek nor care about. What ever shall I do? Oh, the sky is falling!"

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 11:09 AM

Ixnay on the atalinocay uotinqay.

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 11:11 AM

Otchgay, ippay. Iway ouldshay otnay eedfay ottombay eedersfay.

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 11:19 AM

How long till somebody loses an eye on the View?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/the-view-gets-uglier-barb_n_132587.html

KevinTBrown

10-07-2008, 12:14 PM

How long till somebody loses an eye on the View?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/the-view-gets-uglier-barb_n_132587.html

Someone should just bitchslap Elisabeth Hasselback.

EdContradictory

10-07-2008, 12:41 PM

Maybe he will take the Midnight Train to Georgia.

Whoops, I forgot, Junior pulled a lot of the campaign out of Georgia.
Why don't you drop this "junior" nonsense and just call him "boy" like you really want to?

Typo Lad

10-07-2008, 12:43 PM

The namecalling is one of the silliest aspects of political cheerleading. Frankly, once someone calls a candidate a derisive little name ("McSame", "NoBama", whatever), they show they really aren't ready to sit at the table with the grown ups.

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 12:43 PM

SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) -- A glitch that would have kept votes from being counted in the presidential and other top-of-the-ticket races was discovered during a pre-election check of a voting machine in Santa Fe County, officials said.

Heavily Democratic Santa Fe County was the only county in which the problem occurred, according to Automated Election Services, which prints ballots, codes memory cards and provides other election assistance to the state and counties.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Vote-Count-Glitch.html?_r=4&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Not sayin' nuttin' but...
Conveeeeenient.

Eliseu Gouveia

10-07-2008, 01:14 PM

Man, I had a dream last night that Obama was shot at one of these red carpet stage events by someone close to him (he had a bulletproof vest underneath, so momentarily KOed but no long term harm done).

Thought I´d put it out there because a couple of my dreams have the tendency to happen when I keep mum about them.

Hocus pocus BS aside, I hope he does well tonight because the format of the debate plays to McCain´s strenghts.

kingdom2000

10-07-2008, 01:42 PM

Someone should just bitchslap Elisabeth Hasselback.

I might actually respect Elisabeth if I thought she experience to back up her worldview. The problem though is she is the very definition of the charmed life. The harshest experience of her entire life was Survivor. That's it. She has had no real middle class or lower class experience to back up her opinions and viewpoints.

It all quite literally comes from the talking points that the GOP probably send her everyday. If its not on Fox News, she is oblivious of it. Her life is essentially a joyride where she works maybe 5 hours a day (to be generous) and yet she has no time to gather real knowledge about any issue.

Has she actually ever spouted an opinion that wasn't the GOP talking point of the day? Has she actually cited facts and information that didn't come from a talking points memo? Has she actually had an orginial thought? The answer to all is no. She is so pathetically transparent that its an insult to the intelligence.

And yet oddly, she is probably better qualified for the VP position then that terrorist support Sarah Palin.

Corrina

10-07-2008, 01:47 PM

Someone should just bitchslap Elisabeth Hasselback.

I saw the View Monday and she started with "not that it makes any difference but...OBAMA LIKES TERRORISTS!!"

And she kept going like that, despite attempts by Barbara Walters to shut her down--Walters was trying to stick to the 'candidates on both sides should avoid smears' subject.

My personal opinion is that each day, a Republican operative gives Elisabeth Hasselback the daily talking points. I wouldn't be surprised if she quits and gets a job with some conservative think tank or runs for office. But I would be very, very surprised if she thinks of these talking points herself. She's just not very bright.

Corrina

10-07-2008, 01:53 PM

It all quite literally comes from the talking points that the GOP probably send her everyday.

Jinx!

Who owes who a coke?

Major Comma

10-07-2008, 02:22 PM

EdContradictory

10-07-2008, 02:28 PM

because the format of the debate plays to McCain´s strenghts.

Says McCain. Obama will be fine.

the4thpip

10-07-2008, 02:29 PM

I just had something sad happen .
a close friend of mine just sent me an email implying
that Obama might be the AntiChrist .
Like I said ,
SAD.
Are there people out ther that actually belive that crap?

Is that the one claiming that the bible mentions Muslims, and misspelling the word Revelations in "Book of Revelations"?
Snicker.
Every supposed Christian who forwards that proves that they only care about the hatred their religion justifies.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-07-2008, 03:47 PM

I am sure it really "killed" the viewers in Scranton.

I'm pretty sure they laughed. Because its a freakin comedy show...not a series actual candidate claiming their hometown is a hellhole.

If Palin is writing the SNL material, shouldn't she get credit? Which Bush Sr are you referring to? If you are referring to GHWB, he is not a Sr anymore that GWB is a Jr.

She is getting a credit. Fey and others have said they use most of what she says in the Couric interview. And Bush Sr. is George W's dad. He's been called Bush Sr. by many. I mean your calling Obama Junior...so hey ...it shouldn't be a big deal to call George Bush "Sr."

Which does not refute that Chase did not get along with Belushi.

Accept a lot of the hate was more Belushi towards Chase than vice versa. Chase himself claims he had no clue why Belushi felt that way.

No real problems other than punches were thrown between Chase and Murray. I don't think he still likes him to this day.

Chase has said that he had no idea what made Belushi be that mad. Its said after the fists were thrown , Belushi did get a laugh from it. Of course the cast may all be suffering memory blocks being on so much drugs and shit at the time....(and they may have fueled the anger with Chevy leaving ect ect)

You have to wonder how much. I wonder if anyone did a measure of time of all the political people who they have mocked to see if one received more than the other.

Actually a few weeks back CNN did research after the Republican party and Fox News threw a temper tantrum over the sketch that they though Al Franken wrote (he just inspired it in Lorne's mind lol). CNN learned that all thru the year SNL aired 20 political sketches... 10 Obama ones , 10 Hillary ones. Now their airing sketches on Palin...and all. And thus far they've aired a few Obama sketches , a few McCain...and a few Palin sketches.

Had an interesting moment in Small Town, Upstate NY on Sunday. This is a one-horse town in many ways, and very old fashioned. By which I mean to say, there's a whole lot of casual racism. Nothing active, but that mind-numbing, passive "well, that's how it was when I was a boy and I didn't see nothin' wrong with it" racism. In some ways, that kind is a bit worse to me.

The discussion rose to politics. Amazingly, the room was resoundingly anti-McCain. Even the most credulous made a comment to the extent of "I didn't want to vote for Obama and I won't. I'm voting against McCain."

It seems some of the older generation, many of whom were around for the last Depression, aren't stupid, and know that a "maverick" who voted with the administration almost constantly as their policies sank our nation isn't going to change anything. In fact, a lot seemed insulted by the campaign, for reasons we've mentioned here ("Mental recession", "Pork is bad and evil and I'll make famous the people who push for it - um, except in this very pivotal bit of legislation" "this election isn't about the issues" "The fundamentals of our economy are strong - hey that's not what I meant!"")

Anecdotal, but I thought some might find it interesting.

A lot of the old people here...the ones McCain should likely be hitting all seem to be going against McCain. They feel Palin is a fool and McCain is a scumbag who is with this Adminstartion. Many feel Obama is the lesser of 2 evils...

Someone should just bitchslap Elisabeth Hasselback.

Well she is a moron ya know....and Palin needs company.

Why don't you drop this "junior" nonsense and just call him "boy" like you really want to?

And why calling George Bush Sr isn't right and yet he can call Obama Jr ?

The namecalling is one of the silliest aspects of political cheerleading. Frankly, once someone calls a candidate a derisive little name ("McSame", "NoBama", whatever), they show they really aren't ready to sit at the table with the grown ups.

I agree...I may not care for Palin or McCain's policies...but I will at least call them by the right name.

Major Comma

10-07-2008, 03:54 PM

The 4th Pip,
yes,
thats the one.

Arrogantcur

10-07-2008, 04:51 PM

My prediction: If there's an N-bomb to be dropped, it will be dropped by a McCain supporter at a McCain/Palin rally. If they're yelling out "terrorist" at McCain's rallies in reference to Obama, I have a bad feeling someone will say something worse.

Something like that has now happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html

Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her "less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media." At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy."

Evan Waters

10-07-2008, 04:54 PM

Hocus pocus BS aside, I hope he does well tonight because the format of the debate plays to McCain´s strenghts.

I've actually been told that they're both good in this kind of forum; Obama's not as fast on his feet, but he's able to lay things down in a clear and direct way. There's a nice clip of him talking to a small crowd here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RF650s7WOU), it's sort of slow but he makes solid points throughout. You can tell that he's thinking about what he says. It's downright neat to see a politician acting like this.

TomStillwell

10-07-2008, 05:07 PM

Here's a few interesting Palin items.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-palin-secrecy,0,2964405.story

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-ap-palin-tax-returns,0,663876.story

SUPERECWFAN1

10-07-2008, 05:11 PM

I've actually been told that they're both good in this kind of forum; Obama's not as fast on his feet, but he's able to lay things down in a clear and direct way. There's a nice clip of him talking to a small crowd here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RF650s7WOU), it's sort of slow but he makes solid points throughout. You can tell that he's thinking about what he says. It's downright neat to see a politician acting like this.

Bill Clinton thrived on it and talking with kids on MTV's Town Hall meeting. Bush wouldn't do it , but Clinton did and as one ex-MTV producer said "Bill Clinton basically secured all the 18-34 yearolds in that move."

Obama is a very charismatic type. His charm and charisma in this small town hall meeting could help him even more get across.

Michael P

10-07-2008, 05:41 PM

Something like that has now happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html

"Thunder sticks"?

Arrogantcur

10-07-2008, 06:00 PM

"Thunder sticks"?

Here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_sticks :smile:

Michael P

10-07-2008, 06:02 PM

Here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder_sticks :smile:

Ah. That sounds annoying.

I thought, for a moment, they meant "rifles."

Darrell D.

10-07-2008, 06:05 PM

Something like that has now happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html

I really thought that people would learn from the past, but I guess that just the naive idealist in me. That's a woman Strom Thurmond could love.

Michael P

10-07-2008, 06:07 PM

I really thought that people would learn from the past, but I guess that just the naive idealist in me. That's a woman Strom Thurmond could love.

Of course, so's Cynthia McKinney. [rim shot]

Stressfactor

10-07-2008, 06:10 PM

I thought, for a moment, they meant "rifles."

No, those are "Boomsticks" :biggrin:

God bless Bruce Campbell

SUPERECWFAN1

10-07-2008, 07:20 PM

The Town Hall is less debate...more taking questions . I like this. Thus far Obama is selling his economic policy and middle class tax cut good. Ohhh hard question for Barack..... and he basically outlines his policies cutting and health care....good one.

4thHorseman

10-07-2008, 07:24 PM

Listening to McCain is making me contemplate suicide

kingdom2000

10-07-2008, 07:39 PM

SUPERECWFAN1

10-07-2008, 07:44 PM

Wow, a moderator that moderated! Obama wanted to reply, its not in the rules and Tom shut him down. Don't blame Obama for trying but glad Brokaw didn't allow it just as long as he applies that rule uniformily.

He managed to basically again correct McCain's lie. I did love the scene that will be played a lot : "Senator McCain , I think the STRAIGHT TALK EXPRESS blew a wheel back there !"

Eliseu Gouveia

10-07-2008, 07:52 PM

What´s wrong with McCain?
He keeps getting up and walking around when Obama´s talking.

Hope it´s not health related....

AaronJ

10-07-2008, 07:53 PM

What´s wrong with McCain?
He keeps getting up and walking around when Obama´s talking.

Hope it´s not health related....

It's *mental* health related.

KevinTBrown

10-07-2008, 08:06 PM

What´s wrong with McCain?
He keeps getting up and walking around when Obama´s talking.

Hope it´s not health related....

No, it's just being plain rude.

Eliseu Gouveia

10-07-2008, 08:10 PM

No, it's just being plain rude.

So it is mental health related...

SUPERECWFAN1

10-07-2008, 08:13 PM

No, it's just being plain rude.

That and he's fucking crazy.... where does he get that Obama wants to launch an Invasion into Pakistan with this : "I wanna push that a democracy happen in Pakistan and that they don't give non-military aid to the Taliban and work deals with them !"

And Obama fights to make that point.... again.

kingdom2000

10-07-2008, 08:16 PM

Dang so much for the rules. I don't mind the follow-up (VP debate needed them) but this late in the debate no point in suddenly allowing them.

Also a mistake from Obama. He doesn't really score points with this. I don't think either do so answer and move on. Economy is the focus, Iraq isn't.

kingdom2000

10-07-2008, 08:37 PM

Tis done.

I noticed on CNN, their little group of Ohio folks didn't like McCain's closing statement. Probably because it was empty and meaningless.

Another gaffe free exchange. No knockouts, no game changers. Pretty much I expect no movement on the "undecided" dial. Again like the other two if you already like your man, you will like him more and if you didn't already, then you still don't.

I give the victory to the entire debate to Obama but not enough to matter. I would say ultimatly its a loss for McCain because its not the game changer he needs and will unlikely do anything to slow Obama's current momentum.

KevinTBrown

10-07-2008, 08:39 PM

Evan Waters

10-07-2008, 08:45 PM

I dunno, I think Obama dominated for most of it. I think McCain's taking this too personally and he's coming off kind of desperate.

AaronJ

10-07-2008, 08:45 PM

I agree with those who said there was nothing as clear as a knockout, here. OTOH, I also agree that that's a loss for McCain (assuming that's how it's seen by the public), since he is the one who needs to totally alter the momentum.

If things go the same way they have been going, Obama wins.

I also want to say that I really hate this freakin' format. What is the damn point of asking people questions and having them answer in 2 minutes?! What in the hell can you answer in 2 minutes?

Anyhow, I think it was, at worst, a draw for Obama. And that translates into a win.

Evan Waters

10-07-2008, 08:48 PM

I still don't see what was so distinct about this format. The candidates walked around a bit and the people in the audience asked questions. This was supposed to be a big thing?

AaronJ

10-07-2008, 08:51 PM

I still don't see what was so distinct about this format. The candidates walked around a bit and the people in the audience asked questions. This was supposed to be a big thing?

Not really, no. The format of all of the debates is just wrong-headed, AFAIC.

I think this is supposed to give people some sort of feeling of being involved, or something. Who the hell knows?

SUPERECWFAN1

10-07-2008, 08:53 PM

100% draw. No one wins.

BUT did anyone notice in the end, while the candidates were shaking hands of the audience members, McCain along with his wife "met up" with Obama and his wife as they made the circle... Obama holds out his hand to shake McCain's hand, McCain rebuffed him, so Obama shook Cindy McCain's hand instead.

McCain is pissed....he thought this was his best chance to do a GAME CHANGER as they say. He wanted this Town Hall format badly and the idea was Obama would crumble next to his veteran leadership. Instead this young punk gave McCain all he could handle and then some. And stepped up and challenged the old man .

You could see McCain get angry in these debates. And his childish actions are killing him.

Buzz Dixon

10-07-2008, 08:58 PM

Bill Clinton thrived on it and talking with kids on MTV's Town Hall meeting. Bush wouldn't do it , but Clinton did and as one ex-MTV producer said "Bill Clinton basically secured all the 18-34 yearolds in that move."

Obama is a very charismatic type. His charm and charisma in this small town hall meeting could help him even more get across.The real big difference, however, is that Clinton won the young vote without increasing the actual number of registered younger voters while Obama is getting many, many more of them to register and vote.

OzBat!

10-07-2008, 09:00 PM

It's official: McCain and Obama are comic book heroes (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/08/2385152.htm) !!The life stories of US presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama have hit comic book stands, and the company behind the illustrated bios hopes plenty of adults will buy them.

IDW Publishing, a San Diego-based company, said it produced the comic book biographies of the two candidates to capitalise on the election. The two biographies will be sold separately in comic stores, and together in a bound edition at book shops.

EMeadow

10-07-2008, 09:00 PM

I wish one of the people in the meeting had brought up how they're both running their campaigns.

Would have interesting to hear those answers.

Buzz Dixon

10-07-2008, 09:01 PM

McCain looked like a grouchy befuddled grandfather.
\
Game-set-match Obama.

BTW, earlier this week wasn't Palin the one advocating attacking Pakistan if they wouldn't give up Bin Laden?

Corrina

10-07-2008, 09:02 PM

I don't think McCain was rebuffing Obama--I watched the interplay and it seemed to be more of "Hello again, have I introduced you to my wife?" --in a nice way, since they don't seem to have met before.

I say this because just before Obama shook hands with Cindy McCain, McCain had tapped Obama on the shoulder. So I think he was trying to introduce his wife.

Anyway....not that that's important.

I think every time Obama proves he's not a crazy person, that he knows what he's talking about, that he's statesmanlike, he wins. Because the country wants a change but they want to make sure they're not handing it to a crazy person. That's why the Carter/Reagan debates were so important--Reagan was thought to be someone who might trigger a nuclear war. And then he got in front of a national audience and sounded likable and smart and not at all dangerous and that was that.

I don't think either man made a mistake. I did like Obama's health care comment concerning his mother and medical bills. I like McCain's recognition of the Chief Petty Officer but I think that went over many people's heads save for veterans.

Mostly, I thought McCain looked old and stiff and past his time. However, I noticed that when he took a step, it was a measured, military marching step. It must be muscle memory. Nothing bad about it, I just found it interesting.

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 09:05 PM

Wonder how McCain interrupting Obama mid-response with some snark went over. Probably not very well (thought Obama bringing up the "bomb bomb bomb Iran" and North Korea annihilation comments after the interruption was pretty pwn-worthy).

Overall a draw--Obama did better in the economy section, McCain got better in the foreign policy section. The draw favors Obama since McCain wasn't able to change the ballgame. If you're looking at the demeanor of the two candidates, however, Obama wins for calmness.

EDIT:
btw, was it just me, or did McCain seem winded?

AaronJ

10-07-2008, 09:14 PM

First numbers: (CBS poll of 400 uncommitted voters)

39% Obama won
27% McCain won

35% draw

SUPERECWFAN1

10-07-2008, 09:17 PM

The real big difference, however, is that Clinton won the young vote without increasing the actual number of registered younger voters while Obama is getting many, many more of them to register and vote.

Ohh sure...that much is true. Bush blew off MTV til it was too late. Clinton pretty much won the young voters though. Its been said that Bush should have reached out to them when they asked and not ignored them.

McCain looked like a grouchy befuddled grandfather.
\
Game-set-match Obama.

BTW, earlier this week wasn't Palin the one advocating attacking Pakistan if they wouldn't give up Bin Laden?

Yes... Katie Couric busted her and John McCain's balls. Which McCain claimed was a GOTCHA journalism . Couric stuck to her guns and made Palin look more foolish since grand dad had to be grouchy and defend her.

Wonder how McCain interrupting Obama mid-response with some snark went over. Probably not very well (thought Obama bringing up the "bomb bomb bomb Iran" and North Korea annihilation comments after the interruption was pretty pwn-worthy).

Overall a draw--Obama did better in the economy section, McCain got better in the foreign policy section. The draw favors Obama since McCain wasn't able to change the ballgame. If you're looking at the demeanor of the two candidates, however, Obama wins for calmness.

EDIT:
btw, was it just me, or did McCain seem winded?

McCain needed Obama to fumble bad....to have a GAME CHANGER of a debate. But he didn't. So Barack won....

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 09:25 PM

McCain needed Obama to fumble bad....to have a GAME CHANGER of a debate. But he didn't. So Barack won....

That's true, and hence even a draw favors Obama. The fact that it was in a townhall format and Obama performed well might further take the wind out of McCain's sails just a month away from election day.

Something weird about a moderated townhall format. It's basically like another debate but without the podiums and with more pacing.

KevinTBrown

10-07-2008, 09:29 PM

Major Comma

10-07-2008, 09:38 PM

It felt like instead of taking off the gloves they put on their slippers instead!:smile:

Major Comma

10-07-2008, 09:42 PM

I hope they cover a wider range of topics next time ,
like free trade and more emphasis on education.

C-Cool

10-07-2008, 10:20 PM

"This debate was no contest. McCain won this, hands down."

- Shifty Republican fanboy who will not be named. His username does not reference a feudalism era Japanese warrior, does not have a dude smacking a kid as his avatar, or is some dude who people have on ignore, and no one wants to see quotes of... maybe C-Cool made this up from a banner he saw two weeks ago... who knows...

McCain/Palin (for second place) '08

TomStillwell

10-07-2008, 10:25 PM

100% draw. No one wins.

BUT did anyone notice in the end, while the candidates were shaking hands of the audience members, McCain along with his wife "met up" with Obama and his wife as they made the circle... Obama holds out his hand to shake McCain's hand, McCain rebuffed him, so Obama shook Cindy McCain's hand instead.

I read a story a few days ago that took place when the Senate was voting on the bailout. Dems were on their side, Repubs on the other. Obama literally crossed the isle to where McCain, Lieberman, and another senator were talking. Obama put out his hand and McCain stared at him coldly. Finally realizing how bad that looked, McCain stiffly took Obama's hand and greeted him. Obama did the same to Lieberman and the other senator, both much more warmly.

But yeah, McCain's going to reach across the isle to heal our country...

Buzz Dixon

10-07-2008, 10:29 PM

McCain shook Obama's hand prior to that. Andrew Sullivan went over his DVR of the debate, originally thinking McCain hadn't shaken hands with Obama but says they did shake (but just barely got caught on camera doing so).

Infra-Man

10-07-2008, 10:33 PM

Here's the media curves assessment...

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/SecondPresDebate.gif (http://mediacurves.com/)

BnL

10-07-2008, 10:34 PM

I can't believe how many people here are calling this a draw. This is the first debate in this election where I thought it was a clear victory for Obama. He DOMINATED on the economy. McCain was feeble. He had nothing. His strategy was to attack Obama with a lie in the follow up, preventing Obama the opportunity to set the record straight. But Obama was on top of it most of the time, calling out the lies, with an exception being when McCain accused him of voting for tax hikes 94 times. The same lie Palin tried to use in the VP debate, but Biden smacked her down for. Now, on foreign policy, one could make a case that McCain tied Obama, but I thought Obama won this section too.

McCain's only benefit was the town hall style of the debate. In the last debate, he was criticized for his inability to even look at Obama, and he came across as generally grumpy. Tonight's format didn't require him to interact or even LOOK at Obama, and instead talk to the crowd, so that helped soften his cranky image. But even then, there were times where he seemed unreasonably hostile, like when he referred to Obama as "that one," or when he made fun of Biden's hairplugs (while he's burying his mother-in-law, btw). And there was a really weird moment when he was answering a question from a black man in the audience and said something like, "you probably never heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac before last week." It definitely came off as very condescending, and it did McCain no favors.

TomStillwell

10-07-2008, 10:41 PM

JKCarrier

10-07-2008, 10:55 PM

btw, was it just me, or did McCain seem winded?

He does have a tendency to drop into this weird raspy "stage whisper" when he starts getting worked up. I think it's more exasperation than windedness... "I can't believe I have to keep explaining to you dummies how awesome I am!"

Buzz Dixon

10-07-2008, 11:22 PM

One thing that disturbed me was McCain continually using his military record to prove how capable his is to lead.

But by all accounts McCain was a screw-up almost his entire career in the Navy, getting ahead only because of his family ties. He would have been booted out of Annapolis, he would have been sited for insubordination, if not for his last name. He crashed two planes out of combat.

His claim to fame, being a POW, happened because he used poor judgment and didn't wisely evade a surface to air missile when he easily could have. He made an impulsive decision and it cost the Navy a plane, a pilot, a bargaining chip in the form of an admiral's son, five years of his life, and his health.

Yes, being a prisoner of war is a horrible thing and I will honor him for that sacrifice. However, that doesn't make him a military commander with sound, proven judgments.During the Korean War there was a Medal of Honor winner named Jerry Crump from NC (that's how I heard about him, since he was a state hero). Crump won the Medal of Honor after he threw himself atop a hand grenade, absorbing the blast with his body to protect his comrades.

Incredibly, he survived!

Jerry Crump was a genuine war hero, a man of courage, dedication, loyalty, and self-sacrifice.

But I don't think his war service means he would have made a good president.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_K._Crump

Crowley

10-07-2008, 11:32 PM

Obama won.

Watch the debate again... McCain fires shots and Obama redirects them back at him. "Bomb Iran" was brilliant and that was very sloppy of McCain to not consider how wide he left himself open over and over again with his attacks.

Crowley

10-08-2008, 12:23 AM

did anyone else see McCain get his ass kicked by the ladies of the friggin' View?

http://stupidcelebrities.net/2008/09/12/john-mccain-the-view-videos/

DrewEdwards

10-08-2008, 12:35 AM

I was teaching a class tonight, so I missed it. But everyone I've talked to said McCain got his head handed to him. Then I get online and people are calling it a draw. I'll be very interested to see clips of this later.

I'll be interested to see the fall out over the next couple of days.

the4thpip

10-08-2008, 02:31 AM

I couldn't get up for this one... Needed my beauty rest last night. Will watch it online when I get home.

the4thpip

10-08-2008, 02:40 AM

Interesting:

When all of the networks went off of the air C-SPAN stayed on and While McCain skulked off with Cindy running behind him, Sen Obama and Michelle stayed in the hall for 25 additional minutes shaking hands and answering more questions from audience members.

FalconX2000

10-08-2008, 05:43 AM

Interesting:

Where did you see this?

the4thpip

10-08-2008, 06:00 AM

Where did you see this?

http://frontrowreviews.blogspot.com/2008/10/2nd-debate-is-in-tankand-so-is-tom.html

Infra-Man

10-08-2008, 06:47 AM

Interesting:

"When all of the networks went off of the air C-SPAN stayed on and While McCain skulked off with Cindy running behind him, Sen Obama and Michelle stayed in the hall for 25 additional minutes shaking hands and answering more questions from audience members."

I remember seeing that on the CNN live online stream last night. Don't know if the other networks held on the stage (the cable was out in my part of Brooklyn last night), but Barack and Michelle went from person to person to shake hands, talk, sign autographs, and take photos.

Obama might have swung a handful of votes his way in that group of people, perhaps more if the networks and cable channels kept filming while the political spinmeisters were doing their post-debate analysis.

DungeonmasterJim

10-08-2008, 06:56 AM

I watched a little over half the debate before leaving for work. It felt almost exactly like the VP debate to me. The candidates seemed to answer what they wanted to and then spent the rest of the time going off on tangent. I grew pretty bored with the whole debate. It didn't change my mind at all.

As an independant that has voted for both parties in the past I will say that McCain's constant TV ad attacks make me like and want to vote for Obama even more. The terrorist stuff about Obama is REALLY turning me off to McCain's camp more than anything else.

DM Jim

FalconX2000

10-08-2008, 06:57 AM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/07/mrs_hagel_to_endorse_obama.html

Lilibet Hagel, wife of Chuck Hagel, is endorsing Obama.

Infra-Man

10-08-2008, 07:20 AM

My favorite part from last night's debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZDSJN7mVPo

The change in McCain's mien around the 47 second mark is telling--like a kid dropping his ice cream cone.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-08-2008, 07:26 AM

Joe Biden has said he could tell when McCain was on the ropes and in attack mode. That he has seen it lots of times in the Senate. McCain won't make eye contact and never calls you by your name.

McCain had this strategy that with Palin not really liked , she could play ATTACK DOG. That she could smear Obama since he won't. The only factor he never figured in was this was a woman who many feel is a moron. And she hasn't made sense for weeks on TV and hearing her claim Obama is pal'n around with terrorists is a lot like her foolishness at not knowing her party left Michigan , she doesn't know a Newspaper that she reads , and her forgein policy experince !

the4thpip

10-08-2008, 08:33 AM

The hater mongering at Palinpalooza is gonna cost taxpayer money now:

The Secret Service is following up on media reports today that someone in the crowd at a McCain/Palin event suggested killing Barack Obama, according to Secret Service spokesman Malcolm Wiley. The shout of "kill him" followed a Sarah Palin rant on Obama's relationship with radical Chicagoan Bill Ayers.

Wiley says the Secret Service did not begin looking into the matter until press reports, namely Dana Milbank's article in the Washington Post, surfaced today, because no agents at the event heard anything. "The Secret Service did not hear any threatening statements directed at targets under its protection and no threatening statements were reported to us by law enforcement or citizens at the event," Wiley told Radar. Also unclear: whether the remark was directed at Obama or Ayers if the words were actually "kill" and "him."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/10/secret-service-looking-into-potential-threat-on-obama.php

TomStillwell

10-08-2008, 08:56 AM

Here's a touching story about a young Barrack.

http://leishacamden.blogspot.com/2008/10/not-that-it-matters.html

Typo Lad

10-08-2008, 09:36 AM

I have to wonder if this is real:

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/political-pictures-sarah-palin-fine-example-family-values.jpg

4thHorseman

10-08-2008, 09:46 AM

Here's a touching story about a young Barrack.

http://leishacamden.blogspot.com/2008/10/not-that-it-matters.html

:biggrin: It's nice reading things like this

FalconX2000

10-08-2008, 09:51 AM

Here's a touching story about a young Barrack.

http://leishacamden.blogspot.com/2008/10/not-that-it-matters.html

That...was pretty heart warming.

Eliseu Gouveia

10-08-2008, 10:48 AM

Here's a touching story about a young Barrack.

http://leishacamden.blogspot.com/2008/10/not-that-it-matters.html

That put a smile on my face. :)

Buzz Dixon

10-08-2008, 10:54 AM

I have to wonder if this is real:

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/political-pictures-sarah-palin-fine-example-family-values.jpgIt is, and it's cute...

...from a seven year old.

Buzz Dixon

10-08-2008, 10:59 AM

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/cover_5.jpgNew York Observer cover by Drew Friedman

K-DoG7p7

10-08-2008, 11:00 AM

I MAY have been to her café ..

JamesRitcheyIII

10-08-2008, 11:03 AM

http://frontrowreviews.blogspot.com/...so-is-tom.html

'Tis the stuff of legend. It shows a degree of character any sane non-racist would want to see in our next president.

If it had been Grinch McSame behind her, the voice would have said "You're holding up the line, lady! I was a POW, blahblahblah..., bootstraps, blahblahblah. I'll do you a favor--I'm donating 103 dollars to Lockheed-Martin...".

Corrina

10-08-2008, 11:14 AM

I have to wonder if this is real:

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/political-pictures-sarah-palin-fine-example-family-values.jpg

Well, if it was my house, it might be. :)

Four kids, ages 15 to 9. Somebody is going to get pissed at somebody, especially on vacation.

I know the political reasons that Palin is carting around her crew. But I sure as hell wouldn't expose my crew to countless dull campaign events. She must be bribing them.

Arrogantcur

10-08-2008, 12:18 PM

the4thpip

10-08-2008, 12:43 PM

You want Palin to have a what? That's crazy talk! (http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=6zHBXu76zSA)

Buzz Dixon

10-08-2008, 12:45 PM

Of the many incredulous questions I have about this article, there's one I want to ask more than any other: where did this guy get the idea that Obama doesn't put his hand over his heart during the national anthem? That sounds made up. If it's actually true I'll be very surprised.It's based on a still photo that's been circulated of Obama with his arm by his side while other people on the podium had theirs over their hearts. Video and other still photos from the event show Obama had his had over his heart a split second later, but of course nobody shows the whole sequence when circulating the spurious story.

Karl J Barnes

10-08-2008, 01:12 PM

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/cover_5.jpgNew York Observer cover by Drew Friedman

I see McCain more as a Doctor McCoy than a Captain Kirk.

Paul McEnery

10-08-2008, 01:22 PM

I see McCain more as a Doctor McCoy than a Captain Kirk.

Sure. With Cindy as Nurse Chapel.

I think it's clear that Bill Clinton is still Captain Kirk. And I think we all know who Yeoman Rand is.

Special guest star Al Gore as Captain Pike.

K-DoG7p7

10-08-2008, 01:23 PM

what about palin and biden?
Ohh and Bush is that guy that sold the tribbles :P

Infra-Man

10-08-2008, 01:27 PM

I see McCain more as a Doctor McCoy than a Captain Kirk.

McCain's a redshirt (Ensign McCain) and Palin is a Borg tribble.

EDIT:
No, make that McCain is a Gorn

Michael P

10-08-2008, 01:50 PM

Sure. With Cindy as Nurse Chapel.

I think it's clear that Bill Clinton is still Captain Kirk. And I think we all know who Yeoman Rand is.

Special guest star Al Gore as Captain Pike.

I dunno, I think Gore's a little too stiff for the role.

the4thpip

10-08-2008, 02:37 PM

Fellow prisoners? Huh? (http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=N4FADXTI-vc)

KevinTBrown

10-08-2008, 02:40 PM

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/cover_5.jpgNew York Observer cover by Drew Friedman

Shouldn't McCain have a red shirt on?

SUPERECWFAN1

10-08-2008, 02:41 PM

Fellow prisoners? Huh? (http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=N4FADXTI-vc)

I almost pity the guy...but then I remember he basically is running racist smear ads and having Palin do that then I think... fuck him.

Briareos

10-08-2008, 05:59 PM

Stories like this discourage me:

"Military families stay loyal to GOP" (http://www.thestar.com/News/USElection/article/513821)

Of the many incredulous questions I have about this article, there's one I want to ask more than any other: where did this guy get the idea that Obama doesn't put his hand over his heart during the national anthem? That sounds made up. If it's actually true I'll be very surprised.

It is true:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwog6E08CFU

Briareos

10-08-2008, 06:00 PM

It's based on a still photo that's been circulated of Obama with his arm by his side while other people on the podium had theirs over their hearts. Video and other still photos from the event show Obama had his had over his heart a split second later, but of course nobody shows the whole sequence when circulating the spurious story.

I just posted a video it's more then a split second

Briareos

10-08-2008, 06:01 PM

Victim of Ayers doesn't believe Obama is fit to be president:

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html

TCJohnson

10-08-2008, 06:09 PM

Stories like this discourage me:

"Military families stay loyal to GOP" (http://www.thestar.com/News/USElection/article/513821)

Of the many incredulous questions I have about this article, there's one I want to ask more than any other: where did this guy get the idea that Obama doesn't put his hand over his heart during the national anthem? That sounds made up. If it's actually true I'll be very surprised.

Obama: My grandfather always told me that during the pledge of allegience you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

Michael P

10-08-2008, 06:12 PM

Obama: My grandfather always told me that during the pledge of allegience you put your hand over your heart. During the national anthem, you sing!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

Reminds me of this.

http://www.holmdel.k12.nj.us/faculty/stetreault/Notes/Novels/7th%20Grade/Nothing%20but%20the%20Truth/truth.jpg

SUPERECWFAN1

10-08-2008, 06:12 PM

Victim of Ayers doesn't believe Obama is fit to be president:

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html

He was 9 years old.... Obama was 8 when it happened. Ayers isn't Obama's BEST BUDDY in the whole world. Its just beyond rediculas that McCain PERSONALLY was involved in the Keating affair and cost people millions of dollars and this gets nothing from ya.

But Obama who was 8 , somehow managed to create time travel and became Ayers good pal and is resposible.

Larime

10-08-2008, 06:50 PM

Victim of Ayers doesn't believe Obama is fit to be president:

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html

First, this is not a victim of Bill Ayers. The writer even said no one knows who did the attack. Facts may not matter to you, but to many Americans they do, and that is why the Ayers attacks have had zero impact for McCain.

Fact: Obama and Ayers are not friends. They hardly even know each other. In fact, Sean Hannity has spoken with Hal Turner - an avowed Nazi - more than Obama has spoken with Ayers. Ayers is not his friend, and certainly not a mentor.

Fact: Republicans were also on the charity board they served on together. Are they now terrorist-pals, too?

Fact: Republicans attended the party at Ayers' home, too.

Fact: Obama has denounced Ayers' acts of terrorism - committed when he was 8.

But by all means, keep pumping money into a story that no one buys or cares about. Obama's lead just keeps getting bigger.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-08-2008, 06:57 PM

First, this is not a victim of Bill Ayers. The writer even said no one knows who did the attack. Facts may not matter to you, but to many Americans they do, and that is why the Ayers attacks have had zero impact for McCain.

Fact: Obama and Ayers are not friends. They hardly even know each other. In fact, Sean Hannity has spoken with Hal Turner - an avowed Nazi - more than Obama has spoken with Ayers. Ayers is not his friend, and certainly not a mentor.

Fact: Republicans were also on the charity board they served on together. Are they now terrorist-pals, too?

Fact: Republicans attended the party at Ayers' home, too.

Fact: Obama has denounced Ayers' acts of terrorism - committed when he was 8.

But by all means, keep pumping money into a story that no one buys or cares about. Obama's lead just keeps getting bigger.

Ohhh and have Sarah Palin keep mentioning it.... since everyone thinks she's a damn moron . Thats why its not working either. Palin is considered a fool after her interviews and as one CNN Political expert said after a Palin/Couric exchange :

"Thats pathetic. What a really pathetic answer...and this woman is running for VP of the United States ?"

Kevinroc

10-08-2008, 07:04 PM

Ohhh and have Sarah Palin keep mentioning it.... since everyone thinks she's a damn moron . Thats why its not working either. Palin is considered a fool after her interviews and as one CNN Political expert said after a Palin/Couric exchange :

"Thats pathetic. What a really pathetic answer...and this woman is running for VP of the United States ?"

Some conservatives don't even like Palin because she's a dummy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/david-brooks-sarah-palin_n_133001.html

David Brooks: Sarah Palin "Represents A Fatal Cancer To The Republican Party"

Kevinroc

10-08-2008, 07:21 PM

Republicans rampant anti-intelligence is getting worse.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015092.php

Briareos

10-08-2008, 07:21 PM

He was 9 years old.... Obama was 8 when it happened. Ayers isn't Obama's BEST BUDDY in the whole world. Its just beyond rediculas that McCain PERSONALLY was involved in the Keating affair and cost people millions of dollars and this gets nothing from ya.

But Obama who was 8 , somehow managed to create time travel and became Ayers good pal and is resposible.

By involved you mean completely exonerated by the prosecutor. The only reason McCain was even investigated was that the other 4 involved were democrats and the democrats threatened to shut down the investigation unless a republican was involved.

Briareos

10-08-2008, 07:29 PM

Some conservatives don't even like Palin because she's a dummy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/david-brooks-sarah-palin_n_133001.html

David Brooks: Sarah Palin "Represents A Fatal Cancer To The Republican Party"

Yes and how smart that Biden is. Why how he goes to a restaurant that has been closed for 20 years to find out what the person on the street thinks. Oh and how along with France we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon. And lets not forget how he said that Obama never claimed to have unconditional meetings with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but it's easy enough to find video on it and in fact Biden used it as a attack on Obama during the Primaries. Oh and when he claimed that Act 1 of the constitution says that the vice presidency is part of the executive branch when it is Act 2 that deals with the executive branch and in fact the Vice president is the "President of the senate". He claimed that:

"With Afghanistan, facts matter, Gwen. ... We spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country.""]"With Afghanistan, facts matter, Gwen. ... We spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country."

The most money we spent in Iraq was in 2008 when we spent 3$ billion a week. So in 3 weeks we spent $9 Billion dollars in Iraq at the most. In Afghanistan we have sepnt $172 billion. So he was 19 times off.

He also said: "John McCain voted against a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every Republican has supported.""]John McCain voted against a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every Republican has supported."

The last ban was voted no all but 4 Republicans.

So you tell me who is smarter...

Larime

10-08-2008, 07:36 PM

By involved you mean completely exonerated by the prosecutor. The only reason McCain was even investigated was that the other 4 involved were democrats and the democrats threatened to shut down the investigation unless a republican was involved.

Then why has McCain been citing it as his darkest moment - one that supposedly transformed him - for the last 20 years? Now, all of a sudden, he was completely innocent and scapegoated? How convenient.

Here's a hard truth, Bri: the majority of Americans no longer believe your team. Your guys had freedom to do and say anything they wanted for nearly 8 years and it has finally caught up to them. No one believes the GOP anymore. Your guys had a good run, made a ton of money, ruined a lot of infrastructure and lives, but it's over, now. Obama leads McCain on trust, likeability and economics. He is up buy 6-10 points in all the trackers and leads in Ohio, Florida and Virginia. He only needs one of those, and North Carolina and Indiana are now tipping, too. The Dems are set to gain 10 to 15 more House seats and 4 to 8 Senate seats. The GOP is splintered in three, all three factions hate each other and blame each other, and no one is in charge, anymore. It's Lord Of The Flies over there. They're about to wander the desert for 40 years, and it will be good for them, because hubris and greed has destroyed every principal it used to stand for. I look forward to the GOP once again being the reasonable, loyal opposition. It'll take a lot of time, though.

President Barack Hussein Obama. Get used to saying it.

Infra-Man

10-08-2008, 07:39 PM

So you tell me who is smarter...

Still Biden. Better grasp on foreign and domestic policy than Palin, who likely wouldn't know what to say if it weren't for her handlers; and even then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvUsdmqGYV8

Sabrinaset

10-08-2008, 07:39 PM

Larime, stop arguing with Bri. He's voting for Obama anyways.

How many times do I gotta tell you guys Bri is a Daily KOS plant on CBR here to make conservatives look bad?

Larime

10-08-2008, 07:41 PM

Yes and how smart that Biden is. Why how he goes to a restaurant that has been closed for 20 years to find out what the person on the street thinks. Oh and how along with France we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon. And lets not forget how he said that Obama never claimed to have unconditional meetings with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but it's easy enough to find video on it and in fact Biden used it as a attack on Obama during the Primaries. Oh and when he claimed that Act 1 of the constitution says that the vice presidency is part of the executive branch when it is Act 2 that deals with the executive branch and in fact the Vice president is the "President of the senate". He claimed that:

"With Afghanistan, facts matter, Gwen. ... We spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country.""]"With Afghanistan, facts matter, Gwen. ... We spend more money in three weeks on combat in Iraq than we spent on the entirety of the last seven years that we have been in Afghanistan building that country."

The most money we spent in Iraq was in 2008 when we spent 3$ billion a week. So in 3 weeks we spent $9 Billion dollars in Iraq at the most. In Afghanistan we have sepnt $172 billion. So he was 19 times off.

He also said: "John McCain voted against a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every Republican has supported.""]John McCain voted against a comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty that every Republican has supported."

The last ban was voted no all but 4 Republicans.

So you tell me who is smarter...

Act one? I know you guys think the Constitution is some play script you can re-write at will, but this is the first I've ever seen it openly admitted to.

Larime

10-08-2008, 07:42 PM

Larime, stop arguing with Bri. He's voting for Obama anyways.

How many times do I gotta tell you guys Bri is a Daily KOS plant on CBR here to make conservatives look bad?

I've met the guy. Try that on someone who hasn't.

Edit t add: And why are you singling me out?

SUPERECWFAN1

10-08-2008, 07:46 PM

Still Biden. Better grasp on foreign and domestic policy than Palin, who likely wouldn't know what to say if it weren't for her handlers; and even then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvUsdmqGYV8

Palin doesn't even read a newspaper....

Briareos

10-08-2008, 07:50 PM

Then why has McCain been citing it as his darkest moment - one that supposedly transformed him - for the last 20 years? Now, all of a sudden, he was completely innocent and scapegoated? How convenient.

Here's a hard truth, Bri: the majority of Americans no longer believe your team. Your guys had freedom to do and say anything they wanted for nearly 8 years and it has finally caught up to them. No one believes the GOP anymore. Your guys had a good run, made a ton of money, ruined a lot of infrastructure and lives, but it's over, now. Obama leads McCain on trust, likeability and economics. He is up buy 6-10 points in all the trackers and leads in Ohio, Florida and Virginia. He only needs one of those, and North Carolina and Indiana are now tipping, too. The Dems are set to gain 10 to 15 more House seats and 4 to 8 Senate seats. The GOP is splintered in three, all three factions hate each other and blame each other, and no one is in charge, anymore. It's Lord Of The Flies over there. They're about to wander the desert for 40 years, and it will be good for them, because hubris and greed has destroyed every principal it used to stand for. I look forward to the GOP once again being the reasonable, loyal opposition. It'll take a lot of time, though.

President Barack Hussein Obama. Get used to saying it.

Here is the Senate Ethics Comittee investigator who is a registered Democrat and who defended Bill Clinton. He was in charge of investigating McCain and who cleared him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDXc7vwLSJY

Sabrinaset

10-08-2008, 07:52 PM

Edit t add: And why are you singling me out?

I wasn't singling you out at all, yours was just the last post when I posted. I haven't even been on this thread for a spell, nor seen you about much save in some Hollow thread.

Larime

10-08-2008, 07:55 PM

Here is the Senate Ethics Comittee investigator who is a registered Democrat and who defended Bill Clinton. He was in charge of investigating McCain and who cleared him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDXc7vwLSJY

Way to dodge! Still waiting for why, until now, McCain has been remorseful and repentant over Keating, calling it his darkest moment, but now he's completely innocent had nothing to do with it.

I don't want quotes from people defending his role in Keating, I want an answer as to why he has cited it over and over for 20 years until just now.

BnL

10-08-2008, 08:12 PM

I've met the guy. Try that on someone who hasn't.

Edit t add: And why are you singling me out?

She's just joking around with you.

Briareos

10-08-2008, 08:12 PM

Way to dodge! Still waiting for why, until now, McCain has been remorseful and repentant over Keating, calling it his darkest moment, but now he's completely innocent had nothing to do with it.

I don't want quotes from people defending his role in Keating, I want an answer as to why he has cited it over and over for 20 years until just now.

So your saying that the person in charge of investigating him doesn't matter?

He probably doesn't like the fact he is even remotely related to the issue. The fact he did nothing wrong doesn't mean as much as the fact that he is related however remotely to the issue.

Larime

10-08-2008, 08:24 PM

So your saying that the person in charge of investigating him doesn't matter?

No, I'm saying that's not even the issue. The issue is that, for 20 years, now, he has used the mea-culpa card on Keatings as THE REASON why he is so against corruption in government - that he learned his lessons and will never again do the undignified things he did, then. I know, I grew up in Arizona. The man was my Senator his entire career.

But now, suddenly, he did absolutely nothing wrong. Then why has he been flogging himself over it for two decades to score points on credibility? If he was innocent, he should have protested loud and clear from day one that he did absolutely nothing wrong. Which he did, at first, but then had his come-to-Jesus moment and confessed his bad deeds and asked forgiveness. He then beat it like a dead horse for 20 years.

Until now.

He probably doesn't like the fact he is even remotely related to the issue. The fact he did nothing wrong doesn't mean as much as the fact that he is related however remotely to the issue.

Either he was innocent - in which case he's been lying and playing martyr for twenty years to gain credibility and attention - or he really believes he did wrong and is lying now.

LtMarvel

10-08-2008, 08:29 PM

Here is the Senate Ethics Comittee investigator who is a registered Democrat and who defended Bill Clinton. He was in charge of investigating McCain and who cleared him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDXc7vwLSJY
And yet McCain still has stronger ties to Keating than Obama has to Ayers.

Heck, Palin has even stronger ties to the America-hating group Alaska Independent Party.

KevinTBrown

10-08-2008, 09:18 PM

Ok, quick question: Which candidate gets the higher grade in Veteran's Legislation? (Hint: Ain't McCain)

http://www.veteranreportcard.org/

And the report itself: http://www.veteranreportcard.org/reportcard.pdf (Go to page 26.)

kingdom2000

10-08-2008, 10:46 PM

Here is the Senate Ethics Comittee investigator who is a registered Democrat and who defended Bill Clinton. He was in charge of investigating McCain and who cleared him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDXc7vwLSJY

So McCain being "cleared" is enough, but zero evidence of Obama supporting Ayers isn't? Can't say I am suprised, it just reminds of the old saying, "hypocrit thy name is republican."

Besides, the Republican Transisitive Property of Terrorism already proves that McCain is a supporter of terrorism. McCain admits to knowing Keating, a known domestic terrorist, so by that rule, McCain loves terrorists and hates our freedoms. How can you supporter a supporter of a terrorist that destroyed thousands of lives and families while claiming you care about familes? Oh yes, the above hypocrit theorom (really should be a law by now as basically no proof available that doesn't support it).

So is you support a supporter of terrorists, does that make you a supporter of terrorism? Tsk Bri, I thought you wanted to keep America safe.

Briareos

10-08-2008, 11:44 PM

mattx110

10-08-2008, 11:57 PM

kingdom2000

10-09-2008, 12:30 AM

It was never about him supporting Ayers. Ayers is unrepentant of what he did. If a Republican were to be as close to David Duke as Obama was to Ayers you would (rightfuly) say that it showed such extreme poor judgement that he would be unfit for public office.

Right, and since McCain was close to Keating who helped cost this country 500 billion dollars and destroyed who knows how many lives, it shows such poor judgement that he is unfit for public office.

See how this work Bri. You try to hang Obama with Ayers, who killed no one. I in turn will happily hang McCain with Keating who destroyed thousands of lives and cost the country $500 billion. Hmm the guy that destroyed some buildings or the guy that destroyed thousands of lives, which is worse. Keep it up, this is actually fun for me.

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 02:07 AM

He was 9 years old.... Obama was 8 when it happened. Ayers isn't Obama's BEST BUDDY in the whole world. Its just beyond rediculas that McCain PERSONALLY was involved in the Keating affair and cost people millions of dollars and this gets nothing from ya.

But Obama who was 8 , somehow managed to create time travel and became Ayers good pal and is resposible.

Haven't you heard Palin?
What did Obama know and when did he know it??
And could the FBI have bribed the 8 year old Barack with pop rocks to get information to prevent the Bombings?

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 02:38 AM

By involved you mean completely exonerated by the prosecutor. The only reason McCain was even investigated was that the other 4 involved were democrats and the democrats threatened to shut down the investigation unless a republican was involved.

Republicans are applying a double standard here.
While McCain got off with "bad judgment" in the Keating Five scandal, Mr Keating did not, as little as Mr Ayers did. McCain's involvement with criminal Mr Keating was certainly deeper, more extensive and on purpose than anything Obama had to do with Mr Ayers.

Hasselback tried to do the same on the view. With Obama it's about the associaton with a criminal even though Obama has never been accused of any criminal activity, but with McCain the association with a HUGE crook doesn't matter anymore because McCain himself was not proven guilty of actual wrongdoing, just "bad judgment."

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 02:51 AM

Voting machine problems looming in, you guessed it, Florida:

Attorney Gerald Richman, who conducted the tests this week in hopes of winning Circuit Judge Richard Wennet back the seat he lost in the problem-fraught Aug. 26 primary, described the issue in far stronger terms.

"The recount procedure using these high-speed scanners is fatally flawed," Richman said. "We know the machines are counting things that should not be counted. We've proven it factually."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/10/03/a1a_recount_1004.html

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 03:26 AM

OCTOBER 8--Angered by a delay in the receipt of his voter registration card, a Louisiana man today threatened to shoot election officials, claiming that he urgently needed to cast a ballot to "keep the nigger out of office," according to police. Wade Williams, 75, was arrested this morning on a felony terrorizing charge after allegedly calling the Registrar of Voters and warning that he would come to the state office and empty his shotgun unless he got his registration card. Using profanity and racial slurs, Williams told a state official "about needing to vote to 'keep the nigger out of office," according to an Ouachita Parish Sheriff's Office affidavit, a copy of which you'll find here. Though the document does not name the candidate to which Williams is so violently opposed, it seems likely he was referring to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama. After being arrested at his Monroe home, Williams was booked into the Ouachita Correctional Center, where the below mug shot was snapped. En route to the jail, he "continued his 'tirade' about niggers and also stated that he had a shotgun, but had it hidden at his residence," reported Lt. Michael Judd. (2 pages)
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1008082voter1.html

:frown:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/art4/1008082voter2.gif

PatrickG

10-09-2008, 05:26 AM

It was never about him supporting Ayers. Ayers is unrepentant of what he did. If a Republican were to be as close to David Duke as Obama was to Ayers you would (rightfuly) say that it showed such extreme poor judgement that he would be unfit for public office.

No, I wouldn't. They sat on a school advisory committee together.

And even so, loving America is not a mandate for every citizen and there's absolutely no reason why a distaste for the country or a criminal past means I can't be associates with somebody, even if I am seeking the presidency.

I was hoping to find evidence of a Duke/McCain connection but the most recent thing I could find was from back in 1990 when McCain voted against a Civil Rights bill and sided with Duke. However, it seems even Duke favors Obama now...

http://www.tnr.com/toc/story.html?id=907272c4-54db-4fba-9149-e95b7293d6a0

"I don't think Obama will be any more negative for the United States than Hillary or John McCain," explains Duke. "In fact," he added, "we probably have less preference for a European like a John McCain or a Hillary who has betrayed our interests, our heritage, our rights."

Corrina

10-09-2008, 06:04 AM

Omigod, there are 75-year-old white racists in Louisiana!

I'm shocked, shocked!

:)

Infra-Man

10-09-2008, 06:26 AM

JOHN McCAIN: Obama gave a planetarium $3 million for an overhead projector.

Umm, no and no.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/08/mccains-planetariophobia/

So a little while back, John McCain made an ill-advised crack about planetaria (that’s the plural of planetarium), calling them "foolishness". It was ill advised because it raised the hackles of lots of science-loving folks, including those who want to — gasp, horror! — educate kids about astronomy and science.

At the time I suspected it was just a wedge in which to attack Barack Obama, but his use of the word foolishness really caught my attention. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but does he really dislike such things?

Well, last night removed any doubt, when McCain — twice — used Obama’s requested earmark of three million dollars for Adler planetarium as a bludgeon, trying to pin Obama as another pork-barrel politician. He disdainfully said the money was for an "overhead projector". Those are his exact words. Here’s what he said:

"While we were working to eliminate these pork barrel earmarks he [Senator Obama, or "that one"] voted for nearly $1 billion in pork barrel earmark projects. Including $3 million for an overhead projector at a planetarium in Chicago, Illinois. My friends, do we need to spend that kind of money?"

Well, shock of shocks — it turns out McCain’s characterization of this was all wrong. In fact, I would call it a lie. He knows it wasn’t for an overhead projector, a piece of classroom equipment that costs a couple of hundred dollars. That money was for Adler’s Zeiss Mark VI star projector: a venerable piece of precision fabricated equipment that projects the stars, constellations, and other objects inside the planetarium dome. Adler’s Zeiss is 40 years old, and desperately needs replacing. These machines are pricey, and replacing them difficult.

Adler needed money to do this. They asked local politicians, and eventually were able to get a request in a budget submitted by Obama. However, Obama never even voted on that budget, and Adler never got that money — thus making, again, McCain a liar.

etc.

EDIT:
Examples of these overhead projectors

Old version
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/skytheater.jpg

New version
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/skytheater-1.jpg

KevinTBrown

10-09-2008, 06:30 AM

Omigod, there are 75-year-old white racists in Louisiana!

I'm shocked, shocked!

:)

Nah. They're not racist. They just lean to the white..... er, right. :redface:

TomStillwell

10-09-2008, 08:47 AM

Ready to lead? It would seem McCain is not.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/obama-mccain-transition-e_n_132976.html

KevinTBrown

10-09-2008, 09:51 AM

Voting machine problems looming in, you guessed it, Florida:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/10/03/a1a_recount_1004.html

On top of that, there's seems to have been an illegal "voter purge" in numerous swing states: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_el_ge/voter_purges

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 09:53 AM

Infra-Man

10-09-2008, 10:04 AM

When you've got him in the corner, don't stop punching

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CAMPAIGN_ADS?SITE=AP

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Barack Obama spent $3.3 million in TV advertising on Monday. Now do the math: At that rate the Democrat will spend more than $90 million on ads through Election Day - more than all the money Republican rival John McCain has to spend on his entire fall campaign.

McCain's ad spending Monday totaled about $900,000 and the Republican National Committee weighed in with about $700,000 worth.

All whopping numbers, but the disparity between Obama and the Republicans is so wide that it has allowed Obama to spend in more states than McCain, to appear more frequently in key markets and to diversify his message by both attacking McCain and promoting his own personal story.

With national and state polls showing him building a broader lead over McCain, Obama has switched to a more positive pitch. Last week, only 34 percent of his ads attacked McCain directly while virtually all of McCain's ads attacked Obama, according to a study by the Wisconsin Advertising Project at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

One of Obama's most recent ads came as Sarah Palin, McCain's running mate, made an issue of Obama's connections to 1960s radical Bill Ayers and argued that Obama "is not a man who sees America like you and I see America."

The ad bespeaks Americana. In it, Obama recalls being a child, sitting on his grandfather's shoulders and waving an American flag as they watched astronauts return from a splashdown. "And my grandfather would say, 'Boy, Americans, we can do anything when we put our minds to it.'"

The ad offers a direct response to Palin. But it also illustrates Obama's continuing need as an African-American to reassure voters about his candidacy.

On Thursday, Obama launched an ad criticizing McCain's new mortgage-buy-back plan, saying it would place too big a burden on taxpayers. The ad showcased another ad strategy employed by both campaigns - it was running only on national cable, a relatively inexpensive way of drawing media attention to an issue.

Boosted by an economy in crisis and a saturation of advertising, Obama has built up his margins over McCain in Democratic-leaning battlegrounds such as Pennsylvania and Michigan. He has tilted Republican-leaning states such as Colorado and New Mexico toward his side. And he has created contests in such reliably Republican states as Indiana, Virginia and North Carolina.

At the same time, outside groups have weighed in on both sides. VoteVets.org, a group critical of Bush war policies, on Wednesday began spending $350,000 on ads in Virginia criticizing McCain for opposing full college scholarships for those who serve three years in the military.

Health Care for America Now, a coalition that includes unions and patient advocates, is airing an ad in Ohio and on national cable criticizing McCain's health care plan, echoing a similar message in an Obama ad.

By now, McCain's allies had hoped the Arizona senator would have established his dominance in states won by President Bush in 2000 and 2004 and would have focused on winning two of the three key Rust Belt states of Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan.

But McCain stopped advertising in Michigan, Obama leads in Pennsylvania and he has the edge in Ohio.

"Money doesn't always mean victory, but it means that you have more options to cover more of the battlefield," Republican strategist Terry Holt said. "We're going to have to win with less."

Less is right. Obama is outspending McCain in practically every one of the 14 states the two camps are contesting. One exception is Iowa, where McCain spent more than Obama even though Obama has been sitting on a comfortable lead in the polls.

The biggest discrepancy exists in North Carolina, where Obama spent eight times more than McCain on ads, according to the Wisconsin Advertising Project and TNS Media Intelligence/CMAG, which tracks political ads.

Obama's spending advantage in North Carolina might reflect the McCain campaign's reluctance to devote resources to a state that might ultimately follow precedent and vote Republican anyway. But polls in the state show Obama closing the gap.

Meanwhile, Obama's ability to spend is restrained only by his ability to raise money.

He is the first major party candidate to decline public financing in the general election, leaving him free to spend as much as he can raise. McCain, on the other hand, is limited to spending only the $84 million in public funds he accepted to cover all his costs in September and October.

The RNC is helping with its own resources. It raised a record $66 million in September. Obama has not disclosed his September finances; he doesn't have to until Oct. 20, when financial reports are due to the Federal Election Commission.

Even with their combined resources, McCain and the RNC trailed Obama in ad spending last week by more than $6 million.

"That is a message imbalance that you just can't overcome," said Evan Tracey, head of TNS/CMAG. "That's like one side of the stadium yelling, 'Tastes Great!' and the other side, you can't hear them."

Calybos

10-09-2008, 10:11 AM

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 10:17 AM

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) made an overnight change in the homeowner bailout he proposed at Tuesday’s presidential debate, making it more generous to financial institutions and more costly for taxpayers.

McCain's staff says it was always meant that way.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081009/pl_politico/14414;_ylt=AnTm1GVyvVR2bLEHMPdIWMkEtbAF

KevinTBrown

10-09-2008, 10:47 AM

Even though this is good news for America in this particular election, it still disgusts me that so much money is necessary to conduct a viable campaign.

Still more that it's a good predictor of electoral success.

If the Republican campaign was run strictly on the issues and not attacks, there would be less money spent all around.

The more attacks, the more the Dems need to keep pushing the positive and truthfulness of the issues.

Infra-Man

10-09-2008, 10:51 AM

Getting ugly... getting ugly...

http://fishwars.blogspot.com/2008/10/ugly-face-of-racism.html

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/racistsign.jpg

This billboard has appeared south of Mustion Creek on the west side of U.S. 63, according to the West Plains Quill [south central Missouri in the Ozark region]. The paper said it was unable to determine who is responsible for the sign.

LtMarvel

10-09-2008, 11:02 AM

I'm so embarrassed...

That part of the state is extremely rural, wooded area.

Watching the Colbert show the other day I learned that I have a new channel on my Dish Network. Channel 73!

Briareos

10-09-2008, 11:38 AM

Obama belonged to a far left radical political party:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010306031216/www.newparty.org/up9610.html

Eliseu Gouveia

10-09-2008, 11:44 AM

With Virginia moving to the "leaning Obama" column today, Obama wins the presidency in the RCP map and would not need to win any more of the toss up states.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

The election is not over til november.
I heard on CNN today that the gap between the two is shrinking again.

EdContradictory

10-09-2008, 11:51 AM

Obama belonged to a far left radical political party:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010306031216/www.newparty.org/up9610.html

OMG, you're wrong. Again. Shocking.

The New Party is an umbrella organization for grassroots political groups working to break the stranglehold that corporate money and corporate media have over our political process.

Our current work and long-term strategy is to change states' election rules to allow fusion voting - a method of voting that allows minor parties to have their own ballot line with which they can either endorse their own candidates or endorse the candidates of other parties. Through fusion, minor parties don't have to always compete in the winner-take-all two party system and can avoid "spoiling" - throwing an election to the most conservative candidate by splitting the votes that might go to two more progressive candidates (ours and another party's). For more information on fusion click here or here. We hope you will join us in re-establishing fusion as a tool for Americans to take back the political process.

Wow, they want to re-instate a 19th Century voting technique.

Who cares?

Nick Soapdish

10-09-2008, 11:52 AM

Obama belonged to a far left radical political party:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010306031216/www.newparty.org/up9610.html

Cursory research (actually reading the link) reveals that the New Party endorsed candidates that were running in the Democratic primary. That means that they were Democrats. It doesn't necessarily mean that they also were members of the party.

Do you have any evidence that he was actually a member or are you arguing that anybody that is endorsed by an organization is a member of that organization? The revelation that John McCain is gay (endorsed by Log Cabin Republicans) is going to be a real October Surprise.

K-DoG7p7

10-09-2008, 11:53 AM

Getting ugly... getting ugly...

http://fishwars.blogspot.com/2008/10/ugly-face-of-racism.html

why is his middle name in ""

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 11:54 AM

The election is not over til november.
I heard on CNN today that the gap between the two is shrinking again.

Some national polls today and yesterday have it narrowing, some have it widening. But almost ALL the individual state polls are looking like great news for Obama, and the world.

4thHorseman

10-09-2008, 11:57 AM

Getting ugly... getting ugly...

http://fishwars.blogspot.com/2008/10/ugly-face-of-racism.html

Ugh, and that's where my grandparents live.

Yep, knew I didn't like going down there.

Royal

10-09-2008, 11:59 AM

Buzz Dixon

10-09-2008, 12:11 PM

Buzz Dixon

10-09-2008, 12:13 PM

Buzz Dixon

10-09-2008, 12:18 PM

BTW, Todd Palin, Guilty as Charged:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/550229.html

Karl J Barnes

10-09-2008, 12:26 PM

BTW, Todd Palin, Guilty as Charged:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/550229.html

What I love is that Palin(Todd) has all these statememnts about why,yet he has NO proof. What it looks like to me(and sorry if I'm stating the obvivious) that family business rolled over into government business and the Palis could not or would not keep them seperate.

Dreadstar

10-09-2008, 12:27 PM

BTW, Todd Palin, Guilty as Charged:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/550229.html

I wasn't aware that either of the investigations had come up with a finding of "guilty" or were even authorized to find "guilty" outside a court of law.

Buzz Dixon

10-09-2008, 12:27 PM

Arguably The Worst Idea For A Book of the decade:

http://www.observer.com/2008/media/hugh-hewitts-how-sarah-palin-won-election-and-saved-america-does-not-yet-have-publisher

Nick Soapdish

10-09-2008, 12:48 PM

What I love is that Palin(Todd) has all these statememnts about why,yet he has NO proof. What it looks like to me(and sorry if I'm stating the obvivious) that family business rolled over into government business and the Palis could not or would not keep them seperate.

I like how he suggests that it was related to Palin (I guess I need to say Sarah) having a grudge against Monegan because he wouldn't lend her a plane after she got rid of hers and pettiness over a forwarded accusation that she didn't use a child-seat for Trig. (And she's shown such consideration for his well-being on the campaign trail.)

But as Dread says, it doesn't say guilty. And Sarah's the one under investigation. I don't think he can be guilty of abuse of power.

Stressfactor

10-09-2008, 12:58 PM

But as Dread says, it doesn't say guilty. And Sarah's the one under investigation. I don't think he can be guilty of abuse of power.

All true. Although Todd Palin could be guilty of using undue influence that's not really a punishable offense.

It's only significance is really that it gets the investigation that one step closer to Sarah....

Nick Soapdish

10-09-2008, 01:15 PM

All true. Although Todd Palin could be guilty of using undue influence that's not really a punishable offense.

It's only significance is really that it gets the investigation that one step closer to Sarah....

Agreed.

It's not his fault that he has a connection. He can (probably) blather at her or anybody in government as long as he wants as long as he isn't threatening or bribing. I say "probably" because it could be considered intimidating to have the spouse of your boss constantly telling you how to do your job.

But if she's behaving in a similar manner and constantly hounding Monegan on it, it makes it difficult for her to argue that there was a larger issue behind his dismissal.

Buzz Dixon

10-09-2008, 01:39 PM

Well, Sarah Palin has been telling everybody that neither she nor any member of her family tried to exert influence over Wooten, so if Todd sez he did try to exert influence over Wooten, then...

Karl J Barnes

10-09-2008, 01:47 PM

Arguably The Worst Idea For A Book of the decade:

http://www.observer.com/2008/media/hugh-hewitts-how-sarah-palin-won-election-and-saved-america-does-not-yet-have-publisher

And a little presumptuous,ya think?

Eliseu Gouveia

10-09-2008, 01:51 PM

And a little presumptuous,ya think?

Still a very distinct possibility.

I am extremely fearful of all those people who say they´ll vote Obama but, come election day, change their minds when confronted with a ballot.

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 01:56 PM

Still a very distinct possibility.

I am extremely fearful of all those people who say they´ll vote Obama but, come election day, change their minds when confronted with a ballot.

I'm kind of hoping for a reverse Bradley-effect in the South. That many people who would never admit to vote for a black man actually will.

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 02:01 PM

I'm liking these two new ads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALjzwL1vQEk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwNvSW1Ge4M

Infra-Man

10-09-2008, 02:04 PM

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/85760977ye2.jpg

It's under 9,000!
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/vegeta9000rq1.png

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 02:13 PM

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/85760977ye2.jpg

It's under 9,000!
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/vegeta9000rq1.png

I hope I won't have to move into a cave before the spring. :frown:

the4thpip

10-09-2008, 02:39 PM

Olbermann looks at McCain's ties to terrorists again:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Olbermann_McCain_guilty_by_association_1009.html

kingdom2000

10-09-2008, 02:39 PM

Obama belonged to a far left radical political party:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010306031216/www.newparty.org/up9610.html

And McCain supports terrorists. Which is worse?

Tobias March

10-09-2008, 02:46 PM

My fellow prisoners? (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=N4FADXTI-vc)

TomStillwell

10-09-2008, 02:53 PM

Damn, these morons scare the crap out of me. No wonder our country is in the toilet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/mccain-palin-rally-attend_n_133240.html

Infra-Man

10-09-2008, 03:48 PM

Damn, these morons scare the crap out of me. No wonder our country is in the toilet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/mccain-palin-rally-attend_n_133240.html

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/facepalm.jpg

Stupid people in large groups are a scary, depressing thing.

Stressfactor

10-09-2008, 04:00 PM

Damn, these morons scare the crap out of me. No wonder our country is in the toilet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/mccain-palin-rally-attend_n_133240.html

I actually couldn't watch all of that. Oh my god. The only person I saw who had a reasonable (I won't say rational -- only reasonable) response was the guy who said he didn't think Obama was a terrorist but that he thought Obama's policies would lead to more terrorism. Even at that -- how insane was it that his stupid friend had to look to him to come up with an answer.

KevinTBrown

10-09-2008, 04:08 PM

Damn, these morons scare the crap out of me. No wonder our country is in the toilet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/mccain-palin-rally-attend_n_133240.html

I..... I.... wow.

Calling them morons is an insult to morons.

They're in a league allllllllllll by themselves.

darkhanamaru

10-09-2008, 04:09 PM

Had to post this. Great quote from Linus Torvald's blog. Would love to hear other Europeans thought on this issue:

" That's when you also notice that the whole US voting system is apparently expressly designed to be polarizing (winner-take-all electoral system etc). To somebody from Finland, that looks like a rather obvious and fundamental design flaw. In Finland, government is quite commonly a quilt-work of different parties, and the "rainbow coalition" of many many parties working together was the norm for a long time. And it seems to result in much more civilized political behaviour.

Of course, in the US there are also much wider social, educational, religious and economic differences between people, and issues range all over the map. Which then means that it's hard to bring up any nuances in politics, since either people won't care about them (not relevant for that group), or they simply won't understand them (what does "foreign policy" matter to somebody who has likely never been outside the US unless you count things like day-trips to Tijuana?).

So you couple a polarizing voting system with a campaign that has to make simplified black-and-white statements, and what do you get?

Ugly, is what you get."

His blog is here

http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/

TomStillwell

10-09-2008, 04:11 PM

I actually couldn't watch all of that. Oh my god. The only person I saw who had a reasonable (I won't say rational -- only reasonable) response was the guy who said he didn't think Obama was a terrorist but that he thought Obama's policies would lead to more terrorism. Even at that -- how insane was it that his stupid friend had to look to him to come up with an answer.

Their total disconnect from reality is the stuff of nightmares.

LtMarvel

10-09-2008, 04:15 PM

why is his middle name in ""
Because the painter is an idiot?

Corrina

10-09-2008, 04:58 PM

I'm kind of hoping for a reverse Bradley-effect in the South. That many people who would never admit to vote for a black man actually will.

My late stepfather was a racist who referred to black men with words I won't repeat here.

But later in life, he worked on a construction job with a black man and liked him. He was okay, he was different, he worked hard. So my stepfather the racist had no trouble working with him because, to him, this guy was the exception and that was okay. (Not that this isn't racist, either....)

Same thing with Jackie Robinson. Well, not too many whites were happy with a black player, but, DAMN! He was good. And that helped change attitudes overall.

So I'm thinking now that America in general has gotten to know Barack Obama specifically and not "that nasty *****, they would be willing to make an exception (well, just this once) if it means he can fix the mess the country is in.

Which, really, doesn't make them any less racist but I think pragmatism might override it. And I really hope that the next generation won't have to deal with this systematic hatred in nearly the same amount.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-09-2008, 05:46 PM

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/85760977ye2.jpg

It's under 9,000!
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/vegeta9000rq1.png

Gas is falling off the map. Here its dropped nearly 70 cents and a lady at the station told me its gonna fall below $2.50 by December if it keeps going this way. The more the Dow drops and people need $$$ , the more Obama will likely be looked at as the savior.

KevinTBrown

10-09-2008, 08:06 PM

I love Sarah Silverman: http://www.thegreatschlep.com/site/index.html

Sabrinaset

10-09-2008, 08:08 PM

Gas is falling off the map. Here its dropped nearly 70 cents and a lady at the station told me its gonna fall below $2.50 by December if it keeps going this way. The more the Dow drops and people need $$$ , the more Obama will likely be looked at as the savior.

Hold it ... why is this a BAD thing?

SUPERECWFAN1

10-09-2008, 08:12 PM

Hold it ... why is this a BAD thing?

Thats what were saying... were all like ...hell keep dropping ! Its having a great effect thus far....cheaper gas and Obama winning !:tongue:

Sabrinaset

10-09-2008, 08:14 PM

Thats what were saying... were all like ...hell keep dropping ! Its having a great effect thus far....cheaper gas and Obama winning !:tongue:

Wasn't I reading elsewhere that gas prices dropping would help McCain more though?

Stressfactor

10-09-2008, 08:42 PM

I don't remember how it all went but a few weeks back they had an economist talking on NPR and he explained why lower oil prices (and hence lower gas prices) might be better for people in general but were bad to the worldwide economy...

Edit: Okay, NOW I remember what it was.... For a lot of oil producing countries oil is what drives their economy -- in essence they do not have a diversified economy. If oil prices go low their economies start to shrink and this means they buy fewer imports... which are usually our EXPORTS... So, they buy less stuff from us and that ends up hurting our economy more.

The ideal is a balance where the country is making enough money off of their oil to buy stuff from us but not charging us so much for their oil that it ends up hurting our ability to produce stuff for them.

Despite what McCain seems to think it really is a global market these days. Nobody does anything in a bubble.

Nick Soapdish

10-09-2008, 08:43 PM

Wasn't I reading elsewhere that gas prices dropping would help McCain more though?

That's been my assumption. And I haven't been a bit surprised to watch it drop $.80 in the last month and a half.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-09-2008, 08:45 PM

Wasn't I reading elsewhere that gas prices dropping would help McCain more though?

Except the economy is tanking and thats the bigger issue. And McCain is taking the bullet for that.

Tobias March

10-09-2008, 09:31 PM

Wasn't I reading elsewhere that gas prices dropping would help McCain more though?

Oil barrel sales are weighted to the dollar, as that was seen as a stable currency way back when (70's I believe, unless someone can correct me on the OPAC agreement).

If the US Dollar is devalued, then the rest of the world suffers, as companies needing to make money will charge more. Cue economic crisis.

Conspiracy theory time: before the Iraq invasion Saddam was buying oil in Euros, not dollars. Some believe this was a major contributory cause.

PatrickG

10-09-2008, 09:44 PM

The way McCain has conducted his campaign is disgusting.

I don't even know any Bush supporters among my friends or family who are voting for McCain.

He's been getting my on outright lies. Not half-truths or fudges but FLAT OUT 180 degree distortions of fact.

We need electoral reform in this country. The standard for statements made by a politician in campaign appearances and ads should be the same standard as a witness in court and willful and overt perjury or baseless libel should get you disqualified and labeled a felon.

Yes, I realize this is a broad net to cast and may affect some politicians I like and respect but we need to take a hard line on this kind of behavior in the future. Running for office is a privilege and one that should be taken away more readily rather than allow this kind of behavior.

SUPERECWFAN1

10-09-2008, 09:58 PM

kingdom2000

10-09-2008, 10:03 PM

He's losing anyhow man. And Obama plans driving the nail into the casket with his 30 minute special he just bought. If Obama is smart he hires some old & new rock/pop stars to come on and promote him. Have Hollywood stars introduce each act , have Obama give some speeches ....and you'll have people really tune in !

No keep Hollywood out of it. People generally resent hollywood types telling them crap that isn't about who they are screwing or what their current project is.

The best thing they can do is just have him and Biden talk. To each other, to America, to their wives. The goal is to convince people that a) they are presidential material b) they are likable (never under-estimate how important that is) c) gives him a chance to further convey his point about the issues.

Sure it will be slightly boring but the goal isn't the 92% that have made up their minds, its the 8% or so that are still seeking out more information and a good reason to vote for x candidate.

Sabrinaset

10-09-2008, 10:10 PM

No keep Hollywood out of it. People generally resent hollywood types telling them crap that isn't about who they are screwing or what their current project is.

This is 100% true. It's at the point where Clooney is going about saying that if he campaigns for Obama, it'll only backfire on Barack. I know I've said this elsewhere, but at this point, the only way McCain can win is if Paris, Britney, and Lindsey announce that if McCain wins, they're moving to Europe.

TomStillwell

10-09-2008, 10:19 PM

No keep Hollywood out of it. People generally resent hollywood types telling them crap that isn't about who they are screwing or what their current project is.

The best thing they can do is just have him and Biden talk. To each other, to America, to their wives. The goal is to convince people that a) they are presidential material b) they are likable (never under-estimate how important that is) c) gives him a chance to further convey his point about the issues.

Sure it will be slightly boring but the goal isn't the 92% that have made up their minds, its the 8% or so that are still seeking out more information and a good reason to vote for x candidate.

Quoted for truth.

Plain and simple Obama needs to talk to the people. He's needs to say "This is who I am, this is why I want to be president, and this is what I will do to fix America."

Anything else is just a sideshow. People are tired of sideshows. They don't care if their favorite entertainer endorses a candidate. They've been lied to for eight years and their country has been mishandled. Their houses are in trouble along with their retirement funds. They just want to know if Obama is the real deal. They want to trust him but it's hard given that what has gone before.

This needs to be his fireside chat.