2008 U.S. Presidential Election Mega thread

[4thHorseman]

Palin is coming off so fake it's not even funny. She would be a good actor after some of these answers that seem like they came right off a script.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Palin has set a record calling McCain "Maverick " at least 10 times already....

Palin is basically being a cheerleader.... Biden letting her talk...

[Royal]

I forgot he'd said that.

Oh dear! Looks like he was wrong. SHOCK.

PS "Pulls out of Michigan" gives me mental images of hordes of Republicans having a military evacuation while being air-raided, with McCain yelling "MOVE MOVE MOVE!".

Think Vietnam, but with some stone cold crazies chasing after them.

[beetlebum]

So far, Palin's been clear with her populist rhetoric (though I'm laughing my ass off at the fact that she said "Joe Six Pack".)

Biden shouldn't have stopped to ask Gwen a question in the middle of his response.

And good on Gwen for calling them on the fact that they didn't answer the question.

And here they go reinforcing talking points and blaming the other side for the mortgage crisis.

[king mob]

FOR FUCKS SAKE LEARN HOW TO SPEAK!!

How the buggery bollocks can anyone consider Palin to be competant?

Biden is sending me to sleep though he is trying at least to answer questions rather than just THROW WORDS OUT & hope they make sense.

[kingdom2000]

Hate to say it but Palin is doing a good job. Her responses are coherent. She is cheerleading McCain like she is supposed and she is sticking with "no shit" statements that I think anyone would disagree with so far (regulation, careful investment, lending, etc). The content from both is mostly vacant and just empty ideas and promises but all that matters is the electorate nods with you.

[Royal]

Jesus fucking Christ. Biden is dreary but Palin is just moronic & shite. She's said 'mavericks'. Fucks sake.

The Repub. bent over backwards to cut the balls off this debate.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Ha ha .,.... ohh fuck Biden hits her ....she's wobbly.....ha ha ha she can't answer ! No on the De-Regulation answer ...Biden laughs as he knows she fucked up.

[4thHorseman]

HAHAHA, I am cracking up.

"Ok, our time is up" (Palin looks down and shuts up)

[beetlebum]

What's funny is that Palin keeps talking about how Obama wants to raise taxes, while apparently - when it comes to health care - Palin wants to do the same.

Also, I can't wait to see the fact checks when this debate ends.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

HAHAHA, I am cracking up.

"Ok, our time is up" (Palin looks down and shuts up)

She fucked up major... no answer huh. She wants to stay on taxes and talks about her time as mayor in Alaska . What a disconect.

[king mob]

Her responses are coherent.

Not at all, she's a fucking idiot & avoiding talking about anything that might actually be something relating to policies. It's just nonsense.

She is cheerleading McCain like she is supposed and she is sticking with "no shit" statements that I think anyone would disagree with so far (regulation, careful investment, lending, etc). The content from both is mostly vacant and just empty ideas and promises but all that matters is the electorate nods with you.

I'm stunned by how awful this debate is so far but Biden is playing it safe, if dull, but if Palin says 'darn' once more then I shall scream.

Country first!!!

[4thHorseman]

Republicans are probably facepalming it right now listening to Palin.

[beetlebum]

Also - "Redistribution of wealth?"

That's conservative agit-prop; linking the Dems with communism. I'm kind of sick of hearing that phrase.

And Barack does not want to make healthcare "mandatory".

[kingdom2000]

I think yalls dislike of Palin is coloring your analysis. The simple fact is currently she is winning the war of the soundbytes and at the end of the day its the soundbytes that get aired over and over and the electorate see. The debate I would say is currently tied overall.

[king mob]

All this talk of tax credits & ideas that sound like PFI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Finance_Initiative)sound a bit familiar.

[beetlebum]

I don't think that she's "winning." Biden is articulating his policies as well, though his stumble over the word "characterize" doesn't help.

She's just doing better than most of us give her credit for.

Loved Biden's "Bridge to nowhere" joke.

And good on Gwen for calling them on their dodges.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I think yalls dislike of Palin is coloring your analysis. The simple fact is currently she is winning the war of the soundbytes and at the end of the day its the soundbytes that get aired over and over and the electorate see. The debate I would say is currently tied overall.

"He's a Maverick" over and over....(thats her soundbite)

Beyond it Biden is hurting her. He nailed her health care package ....and is likely waiting to pounce again. He also did the "Bridge to Nowhere !"

[king mob]

I think yalls dislike of Palin is coloring your analysis. The simple fact is currently she is winning the war of the soundbytes and at the end of the day its the soundbytes that get aired over and over and the electorate see. The debate I would say is currently tied overall.

Soundbyte wise she's pissing all over Biden who just sounds dull. However Palin isn't saying anything of any substance at all. Biden may be boring but he's stringing together a debate rather than just shooting off rehearsed soundbytes.

[4thHorseman]

Yeah, Palin isn't sure how to respond. She's like a broken record but not saying anything of real value. Everything she's tried to throw at Biden, Biden has thrown right back and left her stumped. She's doing better than I thought, but nowhere near as ready as she probably would have liked.

[beetlebum]

Here's a link to the Windfall Tax Credit. (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html)

Kudos to Biden for giving her the credit for it. And for pointing out the fact that McCain wants to give more tax breaks to Exxon Mobil.

And here she goes with the "John McCain to thank" claptrap....

[kingdom2000]

I will agree, as expected Palin is giving a crapton of "pageant" responses...but people respond to those. That is the thing to judge on. Not do YOU respond to it but will the average voting American...to that I say yes.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yeah, Palin isn't sure how to respond. She's like a broken record but not saying anything of real value. Everything she's tried to throw at Biden, Biden has thrown right back and left her stumped. She's doing better than I thought, but nowhere near as ready as she probably would have liked.

Yep...pretty much. Biden is here to fucking seal the deal. Palin is trying to not look like a fool. So far she hasn't looked like a fool. Til now....

Palin is trying to pull up what work she did for Alaska and energy. Its basically she is trying to fill the debate so she won't run outta note cards !

[king mob]

Yeah, Palin isn't sure how to respond. She's like a broken record but not saying anything of real value. Everything she's tried to throw at Biden, Biden has thrown right back and left her stumped. She's doing better than I thought, but nowhere near as ready as she probably would have liked.

Palin sounds like she's banging out the right lines but there's a tone of rising desperation in her answers.

[kingdom2000]

Ooh this shifting of topics she is doing...not so good. She is leaving an attack just hanging out there without a response. That is a big no-no. Especially when the order of American concern is economy > Iraq > healthcare > overall security > energy and other things. Any attack on this first three MUST be addressed first and she didn't do that with that energy answer.

[4thHorseman]

I will agree, as expected Palin is giving a crapton of "pageant" responses...but people respond to those. That is the thing to judge on. Not do YOU respond to it but will the average voting American...to that I say yes.

I agree that soundbites alone she sounds sweeter and easier to vote for. But hopefully a lot of people are watching this, and any other coverage of this debate, to realize what other things she has (not) said during this debate. No amount of soundbites are going to help if they know what else she said during this debate

[beetlebum]

Okay, Biden just gave a clear idea of what to do about the mortgage crisis.

Instead of responding to it, she goes on to change the subject and talk about oil.

Good God, she sounds like an effin commercial. And that she's reading from a script.

And I hear a bit of annoyance in Gwen's voice after Sarah's response (lol).

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Okay, Biden just gave a clear idea of what to do about the mortgage crisis.

Instead of responding to it, she goes on to change the subject and talk about oil.

Good God, she sounds like an effin commercial. And that she's reading from a script.

And I hear a bit of annoyance in Gwen's voice after Sarah's response (lol).

Its getting annoying ...and here comes Biden to kick her ass. Claiming you can't fight Global Warming unless ya admit what caused it. And there goes Palin...

She is a commercial...her debate skills suck by now.

[beetlebum]

Well, at least she acknowledged that the climate is changing (though saying "I don't want to debate the causes" virtually means " I can't win a debate with you on this.")

And again, good on Joe for saying that you can't fix the problem if you don't know - or won't acknowledge what the cause is - and for articulating what he feels are the best solutions for it.

Also, I'm glad Gwen asked them to clarify their policies.

[king mob]

The global warming answer from Palin is fucking disgraceful from someone who may be leading a western democracy in a few months. Biden's is reasonable & the minium one would expect.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/10/03/bidenpalin300x180.jpg

Scary monsters!

[Corrina]

I thought she'd be fine because she could work from a prepared list of answers to most questions.

It's in the interaction, a one on one, that she has trouble because then she has to improvise. Her speech proved she could do well with written material.

Though I had to laugh about the whole 'bringing a fresh atmosphere and change to Washington.' I thought "you just described Barack Obama, ya know.'

Know what I want? I want an instant fact-checker running at the bottom of the screen. Like instant factcheck.org.

Or it would be fun if Ifill was getting text messages about the truth of the responses and then re-asking the question with the new information. But if she's prepared, she already knows most of the false talking points.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The global warming answer from Palin is fucking disgraceful from someone who may be leading a western democracy in a few months. Biden's is reasonable & the minium one would expect.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/10/03/bidenpalin300x180.jpg

Scary monsters!

Biden has his record "25 years of my record shows... clean coal !"

[4thHorseman]

OOOH, here comes the homosexuality debate and equal rights!

EDIT: Well, that was highly disappointing

[kingdom2000]

Ooh the same sex question. I agree wtih Biden. Partly because I have no problem with gays but fundamentally he is right, the constitution does not allow for the distinction that many advocate.

And watching CNN, their "uncommitted ohio voters" thing, I noted they barely responded to Biden answer and did respond to Palin's response in a big way. It seems they do not mind treating gays the same...as long as it doesn't cross the line into marriage.

[beetlebum]

It's nice to know that Sarah is giving a bad rep to the concept of States Rights by saying that she basically doesn't want the same sex benefits that they have in certain states extended to the rest of the nation (albeit in overly wordy, slightly vague language.)

And I'm sad to hear that both of them don't support Gay Marriage.

And now she's cheerleading the war in Iraq :rolleyes: .

[king mob]

So do Palin & Biden support gay rights? I think I fell asleep listening to Palin witter on & on.


Oh god, she's saying that the US might win in Eye-Rack!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

She has to look down to tell Biden he's waving a white flag of surrender....dear lord....she has to read that.

[beetlebum]

"White flag of surrender"?

Seriously. :rolleyes:

And wow, Palin did hammer Biden on some of the things he has said in the past.

And instead of responding to her, he goes back to McCain.

C'mon now!

[beetlebum]

I think that most Americans (except for the foreign policy nerds like me) knew nothing about the 700 year history between Sunnis and Shias. And Barack was right about a lot of things about Iraq, but not all.

Also, I don't think that Iran with nukes is the big threat that everyone says it is. Neither is Al Qaeda; but good on Joe for saying that Pakistan needs a stable government.

And Madrassah does not automatically equal terrorist, damn it!

[king mob]

Can someone point out to Sarah Palin that the US don't have many allies left?

[4thHorseman]

Ooh, another jab at McCain and the Spain comment

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Can someone point out to Sarah Palin that the US don't have many allies left?

Well we don't want Spain... fuck em according to McCain !:tongue:

[beetlebum]

Okay - as an international studies major - this part of the debate really pisses me off.

Sarah shows how ignorant she is by saying that they hate us because of our "freedoms", and by mocking the fact that Obama wants to engage in diplomacy.

Apparently, she just wants us to act like a petulant child. I love Gwen for the fact that she cited previous Secretaries of State for the fact that they want to "talk" to the "enemy".

And I hate the fact that she simplifies things by using binary language, and using words like "evil."

The president of Iran is not "crazy" or "unstable", he just shoots off his big gob a lot.

Assuring Israel that we will not let them endure a second holocaust? What about assuring human rights for the Palestinians?

AND THEY DON'T HATE US BECAUSE OF OUR FREEDOM, THEY HATE US BECAUSE OF OUR FOREIGN POLICY, DAMNIT!!!!!

ARRGGH!

Also, I should add that part of the reason why Hezbollah is successful is because they provide basic services like healthcare.

And Sarah is such a freaking hypocrite for accusing the Dems of looking backwards.

[4thHorseman]

"Um...uh...no, I don't agree with that. But I just want to say...."

I think her new nickname should be The Dodger

[king mob]

blah, Nuewclear, blah Eye-Ran, blah, Israel, blah, be scared, blah Joe Biden's throbbing crotch, blah, homophobia, blah, Sokkkerrr mooooommmmsss, blah, blenders, blah!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And Sarah Palin tells us to not look back ....and McCain is a MAVERICK !!!

[king mob]

Palin sounds like a slightly manic drunk standing at the bar in a pub trying to convince me that they're really, really smart & that isn't vomit spattered down their front.

[kingdom2000]

Hmm Biden's "say again" tendencies is not good. It destroys the soundbyte and will judged as condescending to both Palin and the American people. Emphasis instead with a slight rephrasing and repitition of the same statement.

[4thHorseman]

Palin's starting to get a little pissed off....

[beetlebum]

Oh my God, I love Biden so much for not only Bosnia, but Darfur.

In the words of Denny Dukette - "You're gonna make my heart stop beating, and it's brand new".

*sigh"

At least Palin acknowledged that civilians were being bombed in Afghanistan - though she did immediately cheerlead the war afterwards.

[king mob]

Biden just needs to get his arse out & scare Palin into maybe actually answering a bloody question correctly!

Fucking Washington outsider, fucks sake.

[beetlebum]

"I don't have the stomach for genocide"

Joe, please marry me.

Also, notice that Palin changed the subject again, and she started off her line by saying that I'm a "Washington outsider".

Whatev.

At least she advocated for divestment.

Whateveeerrrr...


My mind's made up now.

[king mob]

Palin's starting to get a little pissed off....

She's looking increasingly red on the BBC stream I'm watching.

[4thHorseman]

Biden's doing damn good, though I'm getting tired of his "truth" comments all the damn time.

[beetlebum]

"He knows what evil is"

Takes one to know one.

[king mob]

What's this 'blenders' stuff? And did Palin say McCain won Vietnam?

[kingdom2000]

Based on CNN Ohio voter thing, they are getting tired of the "Maverick" crap.

I know I am. If make that statement...she needs to back it up with a policy statement that proves the label. Instead we get plaitudes.

Biden is getting riled...he can't. If he is seen as attacking the sweet and pretty governor he is screwed.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Palin is pissed.... DOG GONE IT !

She hated that Biden just sold the middle class on Obama. You could see the vein pop with that.

[beetlebum]

I always laugh whenever a politician name drops mom and pop restaurants, main street, and claim that they shop at Home Depot. It's sooo fake....

And she actually said "Shout out", "Say it ain't so Joe" and "Dog gone it?"

OMG, I'm lmao, but not with her....

[king mob]

Right, I thought British politics was banal but listening & watching Sarah Palin is making me feel that it's not too bad.

[Tyr]

I'm likely voting for Obama.

Gail, can I have a hug?

Seriously I want a hug. :frown:

[beetlebum]

At least she admitted it was lame.

When it comes to botching her jokes, she's almost as bad as Bob Costas.

[kingdom2000]

Palin is usinig humor very effective (lame or not lame). Very critical to get that "she is like me" voter (why that matters I will never understand). Humor also leads to people remembering what the humor was about more effectivily. People already think Dems have a rod up their rears so at least Biden is smart enough the handle it well.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I always laugh whenever a politician name drops mom and pop restaurants, main street, and claim that they shop at Home Depot. It's sooo fake....

And she actually said "Shout out", "Say it ain't so Joe" and "Dog gone it?"

OMG, I'm lmao, but not with her....

"WHERES MY DAWGS AT ?!!" "SARAH PALIN IN ....DA....HOUUUUSSEEE !!"


Biden actually sounds like he will sit and decide with Obama.

[king mob]

Biden could bore paint dry couldn't he, at least he sounds saner than Palin by several miles.

[Tyr]

...Still waiting for someone to take pity on me and give me a hug. :frown:

[king mob]

'Cheney is the most dangerous VP in history'

About bloody time we heard that.

[beetlebum]

"WHERES MY DAWGS AT ?!!" "SARAH PALIN IN ....DA....HOUUUUSSEEE !!"


Biden actually sounds like he will sit and decide with Obama.

Sarah's gangsta. Just ask all those moose she's bust a cap in. :cool:

As for your second sentence, that's why I'm voting for Obama.

And yeah, Spiro Agnew was pretty bad, but Cheney's about a thousand times worse.....

[Alex L]

...Still waiting for someone to take pity on me and give me a hug. :frown:

I thought you were waiting for Gail.

*huggles*

Heya, Beeb!

[king mob]

Palin is just spouting a load of stream of consciousness nonsense half the time, motoring along trying to sound like she's got a clue what the question is about in the slightest. I hope to fuck it isn't working.

[beetlebum]

...Still waiting for someone to take pity on me and give me a hug. :frown:

(Hug) :smile:

And sigh, I think the US needs to do more self examination, not making up excuses for the way we are. We should at least be conciliatory about some things.

EDIT: Hi Alex! *waves*

[king mob]

http://www.geocities.com/mhtaylor67/images/flighthelmet/mav4.jpg

[kingdom2000]

Ooh listing supporters, some that the public has openingly rejected. mistake for Palin.

The Maverick line again. That and POW bit has been running for the entire campaign and hasn't worked. They need a different debate throughline (too late now of course).

Smart for Biden to FINALLY address that maverick line. He should have been doing it at every chance she gave him (and there where many).

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Sarah's gangsta. Just ask all those moose she's bust a cap in. :cool:

As for your second sentence, that's why I'm voting for Obama.

And yeah, Spiro Agnew was pretty bad, but Cheney's about a thousand times worse.....

Yep....Obama has the experinced guy with him now. McCain has someone he's gotta personally move around and watch what she says. Biden has finally ripped Palin's heart out of her "catchphrase" . Go Biden you fuckin bulldog.

Palin is going down ... take that MAVERICK !

[beetlebum]

I've been hard on Sarah, but Biden has been a bit boring, and he did say some pretty ignorant things during the foreign policy part of the debate, as well.

And I don't think that he's never questioned someone's motives (at least not in public.)

Still, I'm glad that he addressed the "maverick" issue.

Seriously, I'm this close to doing my rendition of Christina Yang's "SHUT UP!!" speech to the next politician who says that word.

[KevinTBrown]

I am really regretting not making a drinking game out of how many times Palin says "maverick"! :biggrin:

[Alex L]

Boo! Evil mainstream media!

[Suzanne]

Palin: "I like answering tough questions."

BULLSHIT

[kingdom2000]

Debate is almost over. I think Biden won the debate but Palin exceeded expectation tremendously (doesn't hurt they couldn't get lower) which will make most pundits call it a near tie. Despite his best efforts, Biden will get tagged with the "condescending" label which Fox News and Repubs will repeat often and add "elitist" to at every opportunity. The other pundits, the hedge their bets and show fairness, will use condescending at every chance to show a weakness for biden at the debate.

Overall though both did what they where supposed to do - try to sell their presidential candidate. Like the first debate, the net result will be Palin supporters will like her more, Biden supporters will like him more and the polling will be a wash as some states will swing one way a few points but that will be offset by other states swinging the other.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I am really regretting not making a drinking game out of how many times Palin says "maverick"! :biggrin:

She quit once Biden smacked her on her ass. Out went the MAVERICK line. You could sense her frustration at not being able to say MAVERICK at the end since Biden beat her ass with that line.

[kingdom2000]

Palin: "I like answering tough questions."
BULLSHIT

Yeah no kidding. Even republicans don't buy that one (or they wouldn't be claiming "gotcha" questions and defending her from mean Katie Couric).

I don't like Palin as a politican but I have to admit as a person she seems all right. Unlike most voters, much like with my bosses, I make a distinction between the person and potential or current job performance. The two are not the same thing (even though people make the mistake of joining them). Plus that Tina Fey look is yums.

[KevinTBrown]

Oh, hey, look, there's Bristol!!!! Ummmmmm.... isn't she supposed to be something like 6 months' pregnant...? Doesn't look like it.

[beetlebum]

Debate's over. They both ended with their God bless America, apple pie stuff. Though I don't understand what's selfish about wanting to keep our troops safe.

Also, I think David Brooks and Mark Shields are giving her waaaay too much credit in their post debate commentary.

And she wasn't strong on Iran, she came off as promoting hegemony.

Still, she was surprisingly strong, and yes, coming off as colloquial did help - although just how much has yet to be determined.

[Evan Waters]

Debate's over. They both ended with their blah blah God bless America, apple pie stuff. Though I don't understand what's selfish about wanting to keep our troops safe.

Selflishly because he's got a kid there.

[Tyr]

I thought you were waiting for Gail.

*huggles*

Heya, Beeb!

(Hug) :smile:

And sigh, I think the US needs to do more self examination, not making up excuses for the way we are. We should at least be conciliatory about some things.

EDIT: Hi Alex! *waves*

Thanks both of you, it almost makes up for the electorial college. I was about to put in R.E.M.s everybody hurts. I still might. :frown:

[beetlebum]

Selflishly because he's got a kid there.

I knew that (he had a kid there.)

I also have a relative (cousin) who did a tour of duty. I just don't think that he was selfish in asking. *shrugs*

[Corrina]

She WINKED? Like some lame attempt at charm??

She winked???

*Sorry, will be more coherent later. She did okay, mostly, though I think Biden did better than I expected--I expected a competent, dull politician who knew his stuff but he had some charisma, there.

But the winking???

[SUPERECWFAN1]

She killed ? What the hell ? She had Biden on the defensive....wow....

[beetlebum]

She killed ? What the hell ? She had Biden on the defensive....wow....

Yeah, I think the commentators are giving Palin way too much credit (I'm watching PBS, btw.)

But at least one of the commentators now admitted that Biden had the more substantive answers.

And it turns out that they handed out pieces of paper that fact checks what the candidates said, after the debate ended there.

[KevinTBrown]

As I said elsewhere:

A note to Sarah Palin: It's Gen. David McKiernan in Afghanistan, not Gen. George McClellan.... You're a few years off there.

[Briareos]

You can tell Palin won. MSNBC is calling her "mean"

[Briareos]

As I said elsewhere:

A note to Sarah Palin: It's Gen. David McKiernan in Afghanistan, not Gen. George McClellan.... You're a few years off there.

And that will be played over and over on the MSM which all but ignored Biden not knowing who was president and that TV wasn't invented when the stock market crashed. Also nice of him to bring up that violence against women act that was uh declaired unconstitutional...

[Black Atom]

I don't want to piss anyone off by saying this and it's intended to be a legitimate question, but does anyone think Palin is getting off a little easy because she's a woman? I know the incredibly low expecations for her performance have to do with people's perceptions of her competence (or lack thereof) completely independent of her having a vagina but still...it seems like people are affording her waaaay to much credit just for not getting steamrolled by Biden. It doesn't seem like a male candidate would be given that sort of consideration.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I don't want to piss anyone off by saying this and it's intended to be a legitimate question, but does anyone think Palin is getting off a little easy because she's a woman? I know the incredibly low expecations for her performance have to do with people's perceptions of her competence (or lack thereof) completely independent of her having a vagina but still...it seems like people are affording her waaaay to much credit just for not getting steamrolled by Biden. It doesn't seem like a male candidate would be given that sort of consideration.

Um... Hell yeah?

Of course she is, but nobody will admit that. She got off easy from the debate, the media, the post-debate comments, etc.

[Infra-Man]

I liked the part where Palin answered a question in a straightforward and informative way.

Oh yeah, that didn't happen.

She was on script all night, but the problem is her script didn't always address the questions. Whenever there was something off her talking points, she dodged with a "No" without explication and went back to her memorized lines.

She was better than expected, but that's because the expectations were as low as they could be. When we're looking for leaders, we should not settle for merely better than abysmal.

Oh yeah, and Joe Biden asserting that VP was an Executive branch position as outlined in the Constitution. Hardcore smackdown, Constitutiowned.

[a. non]

Remember years ago when there was a report about Mary Hart's voice giving a woman seizures? It was kinda like that.


October Surprise... October Surprise... October Surprise...

Where the F**k is that dang surprise... I know it's coming... It's all to convenient...

Repubs... I'm waiting...

Any terrorist action will just be turned against the GOP: "What, after seven years you guys couldn't stop this?"

We've already had the beginning of the financial meltdown and the GOP squandered any chance to look decisive.

What else is there?

Bush has already planned for that; Executive Directive 51 (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html) allows the Executive Branch to suspend elections, consolidate power and coodinate the government in case of "national emergency," superseding the Legislature and Judiciary. The paranoid in me says Bush WILL attempt to invoke this.
Don't worry; there'll be another election in 2016

[KevinTBrown]

You can tell Palin won. MSNBC is calling her "mean"

Get it right: She was called a wolverine grabbing on to the pantleg of a passerby and doing everything possible to not let go.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I liked the part where Palin answered a question in a straightforward and informative way.

Oh yeah, that didn't happen.

She was on script all night, but the problem is her script didn't always address the questions. Whenever there was something off her talking points, she dodged with a "No" without explication and went back to her memorized lines.

She was better than expected, but that's because the expectations were as low as they could be. When we're looking for leaders, we should not settle for merely better than abysmal.

Oh yeah, and Joe Biden asserting that VP was an Executive branch position as outlined in the Constitution. Hardcore smackdown, Constitutiowned.

He smacked her down on the Maverick line to the point she never said her and McCain were MAVERICKS again. Biden hit her so hard she stopped saying it !

He also had her on the ropes on McCain's policies and de-regulation past to the piont you heard "No I don't wanna answer that..." which is EPIC FAIL. She went back to discussing Alaska and her time as mayor.

It comes down to a woman who spent more time as mayor of a small town of 6,000 vs a man who has experince and been a US Senator for 30 years. And as Biden showed... he knows his shit and corrected her countless times... even on her own running mate !
Remember years ago when there was a report about Mary Hart's voice giving a woman seizures? It was kinda like that.






Bush has already planned for that; Executive Directive 51 (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html) allows the Executive Branch to suspend elections, consolidate power and coodinate the government in case of "national emergency," superseding the Legislature and Judiciary. The paranoid in me says Bush WILL attempt to invoke this.
Don't worry; there'll be another election in 2016

Odds are there will be a riot if this happens and Bush will be kicked outta offense . History will not look kindly on him already and if this happens he'll be scorned.

[Michael P]

Odds are there will be a riot if this happens and Bush will be kicked outta offense . History will not look kindly on him already and if this happens he'll be scorned.

I tend to think that Americans will accept any bullshit authoritarian measures in a time of crisis... except suspension of elections. The sanctity of the right to vote is something that's indoctrinated into us at an almost genetic level from the time we're at all aware of our surroundings; even people who don't vote acknowledge that the right itself is the foundation of democracy. If any President ever tried to suspend it, I believe there would be riots on every street in America. I know damn well there would on mine.

[Major Comma]

Kingdom2000,
I agree with your assessment of the debate .
I Think Palins main goal was to connect to the voters.
We shall see if she succeeded.
Good debate analysis .

[Evan Waters]

Kingdom2000,
I agree with your assessment of the debate .
I Think Palins main goal was to connect to the voters.
We shall see if she succeeded.
Good debate analysis .

I think she presented herself all right, but not enough to win over undecideds.

[Buzz Dixon]

Bill Hinds/CLEATS strikes again:
http://www.gocomics.com/cleats#

(If the image doesn't read, go to http://www.gocomics.com/cleats#)

[CutterMike]

ARRRRRRGGGHH!

I KNEW I was going to be working late getting signage done for an event that the city's doing tomorrow, so I set up to record the debate before I left for work.

Guess what &%$#&*&*$ DIDN'T TURN ON at 9:00!??!

...and nobody'e re-running it as they did the #1s' debate!!!!

I repeat: ARRRRRRGGGHH!


Edited to add:
*Grumpf*

Turns out, CNN DID replay; it just wasn't listed in the online channel listing that I was using to find a repeat, rather than actually channel-surfing.

*mumpf*

The only real pity tactics-wise was that Biden didn't cut off the "Maverick" shtick earlier. It would have been fun to see him cut off more and more of her stump-speech bullet points, while still answering the actual questions.

Oh, well; all part of that "not looking like a bully to the Little Lady™" thing.

OTOH, bless him for pointing out Cheney's position as the most evil VP in history when she talked about expanding the powers of the Veephood...

[Mysterio]

ARRRRRRGGGHH!

I KNEW I was going to be working late getting signage done for an event that the city's doing tomorrow, so I set up to record the debate before I left for work.

Guess what &%$#&*&*$ DIDN'T TURN ON at 9:00!??!

...and nobody'e re-running it as they did the #1s' debate!!!!

I repeat: ARRRRRRGGGHH!


Nevermind.

[Kevinroc]

Ignore the pundits. The polls are tilting to Biden winning.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/biden-dominates-debate-ac_n_131455.html

[Infra-Man]

He smacked her down on the Maverick line to the point she never said her and McCain were MAVERICKS again. Biden hit her so hard she stopped saying it !

He also had her on the ropes on McCain's policies and de-regulation past to the piont you heard "No I don't wanna answer that..." which is EPIC FAIL. She went back to discussing Alaska and her time as mayor.

It comes down to a woman who spent more time as mayor of a small town of 6,000 vs a man who has experince and been a US Senator for 30 years. And as Biden showed... he knows his shit and corrected her countless times... even on her own running mate !

Biden also had that "bridge to nowhere" line early on, the "past is prologue" and "how is McCain going to differ from Bush" thing addressing the idea of looking backward, and showed genuine emotion when he mentioned his late wife and child. The guy's got passion, no one can deny him that--even if his mouth can get away from him, his heart seems to be in the right place.

[beetlebum]

Something else about tonight's debate that bothered the heck out of me: The fact that Sarah said that Israel is our "only" ally in the Middle East.

Ignorant much?

As I said in another thread:

Actually, virtually all of the governments in the Middle East are our allies, including "Axis Of Evil" member Syria. The Middle East as a region is the largest recipient of US aid.

For the year 2006, Israel received about $2,520,000,000 in aid. Egypt came in second, with $1,795,000,000 in aid.

Jordan was third, with $461 million.

Most of the nations in that region have either provided us with intelligence, let us station troops in their respective nations, our have detained - and deported - "terror" suspects to us.

There are confirmed reports of suspects being "outsourced" (extraordinary renditions) to nations like the aforementioned Syria and Egypt, where they can be tortured for information.

Article here. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11976-2004Jul24.html)

The respective nations have populaces who harbour a largely unfavourable view of us, as aid money is used to prop up authoritarian regimes, who then in turn use the Israel/Palestine issue (and America's involvement in it) as a scapegoat for their failures.

I don't see how being ignorant about these facts will help us in any way.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Biden also had that "bridge to nowhere" line early on, the "past is prologue" and "how is McCain going to differ from Bush" thing addressing the idea of looking backward, and showed genuine emotion when he mentioned his late wife and child. The guy's got passion, no one can deny him that--even if his mouth can get away from him, his heart seems to be in the right place.

And guess what... he admitted his passion sometimes makes him mess up earlier. I thought that summed up Biden perfect...he has that drive to show he cares...its just he says the wrong thing at times.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Ignore the pundits. The polls are tilting to Biden winning.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/biden-dominates-debate-ac_n_131455.html

The Fox poll was pretty funny....a poll sponsered by Budweiser with Cindy McCain on its board....well I wonder who'd win this ? :rolleyes:

[EMeadow]

Ooh the same sex question. I agree wtih Biden. Partly because I have no problem with gays but fundamentally he is right, the constitution does not allow for the distinction that many advocate.

And watching CNN, their "uncommitted ohio voters" thing, I noted they barely responded to Biden answer and did respond to Palin's response in a big way. It seems they do not mind treating gays the same...as long as it doesn't cross the line into marriage.

When it comes to the voters responses on the bottom of the screen, all I noticed is the men got a "rise" whenver Palin was just on screen and I figured that was the MILF factor kicking.

When she actually spoke, the minute she started towing the party line, they went down to neutral.

They pretty much stayed in neutral the whole debate. The women responded to of course the subjects that relate to them but they liked both Biden and Palin for that.

But they LOVED whenever he was able to actually go after McCain and Bush. Shockingly, he's the only one who actually said the words "Bin Laden".

As usual, the Republicans want to pretend he doesn't exist and they didn't go after the wrong people.

[Kevinroc]

The New Yorker has endorsed Barack Obama.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editors

[the4thpip]

I will agree, as expected Palin is giving a crapton of "pageant" responses...but people respond to those. That is the thing to judge on. Not do YOU respond to it but will the average voting American...to that I say yes.

CNN's squiggly line instant poll of "uncommitted Ohio voters" disagreed with you.

[Lester C.]

In the past week Obama has made huge gains and is leading in many of the undecided states. It’s important to note though that undecided states are undecided for a reason so for all we know in a couple of weeks McCain will be on top in all those states like he was a few weeks back. The whole election is very mercurial right now, but Obama has the momentum at the moment.

[the4thpip]

She was on script all night.

I bet her gay rights answer was too gay friendly for the lunatic religious fringe supporters Pentecostal Palin finally had gotten on board with the Republican candidate.

[the4thpip]

Biden also had that "bridge to nowhere" line early on, the "past is prologue" and "how is McCain going to differ from Bush" thing addressing the idea of looking backward, and showed genuine emotion when he mentioned his late wife and child. The guy's got passion, no one can deny him that--even if his mouth can get away from him, his heart seems to be in the right place.

And don't forget McCain's Zapatero gaffe that he brought up. :biggrin:

[Infra-Man]

And don't forget McCain's Zapatero gaffe that he brought up. :biggrin:

Yeah, that was golden. Biden's jabs came from his understanding of the issues and current events. Palin's jabs came from her handlers.

[the4thpip]

New Obama ad uses clips from VP debate:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/03/obama-hits-palins-debate_n_131540.html

[4thHorseman]

I bet her gay rights answer was too gay friendly for the lunatic religious fringe supporters Pentecostal Palin finally had gotten on board with the Republican candidate.

It was kinda funny watching her choke out the words in an attempt to say the right thing

Then when asked again: "Yes, I am with Mr. Biden's answer..."

[Buzz Dixon]

The New Yorker has endorsed Barack Obama.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editorsWord. It says everything that I agree with re supporting Obama.

[LtMarvel]

I forgot he'd said that.

Oh dear! Looks like he was wrong. SHOCK.

PS "Pulls out of Michigan" gives me mental images of hordes of Republicans having a military evacuation while being air-raided, with McCain yelling "MOVE MOVE MOVE!".
Heh...ever watch Venture Brothers? There is a super-villian country in that area...

[Alix Harrower]

Also nice of him to bring up that violence against women act that was uh declaired unconstitutional...

One provision of the act was declared unconstitutional; the rest of it remains in place and was reauthorized in 2000 and 2005 (and signed into law by George W. Bush). No wonder you like Palin so much: She has no idea what she's talking about either.

[the4thpip]

Or, hey, let's play some other hypotheticals:

McCain holds Ohio and Florida -- which are appearing ever out of reach for Obama -- and takes Michigan. Even if Obama takes Virginia and Colorado while holding New Hampshire:

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo135/stopsmearingpalin/electoral_prediction_1.png


Or? What if Obama keeps Michigan and New Hampshire, while taking Iowa and Colorado, with the rest of the Kerry/Bush map preserved?

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo135/stopsmearingpalin/electoral_prediction_2.png

I stand by the map I presented. Unless Obama is planning on keeping the Kerry map (and I am sure some states will flip, like NH and MI), and taking more than Iowa and Colorado, he loses.

Are you kidding? The latest polling shows Obama up in MI by 1 point. One. After Kwame, and without strong support amongst the labor rank-and-file, Obama will lose MI.

Wisconsin? That might be Obama. But I am sure as anything that Michigan will be McCain this year.



And? On this date in 2004, Kerry was up higher in EV polling than Obama is currently. We saw how that worked out.

Point:

Obama will not flip any southern state, not even Virginia.
Obama will not flip the mountain west. MAYBE New Mexico, but not Colorado.
Obama will not flip Florida or Ohio.
Obama will probably flip Iowa, since he pandered so strongly there regarding:

Michigan. Which will flip McCain.
And New Hampshire will probably flip McCain.

I think Wisconsin and Pennsylvania will flip McCain, but those are just bonuses to this end. McCain flips Michigan while holding Ohio and Florida -- with the rest of the Bush/Kerry Map -- and it's over. Iowa be damned.

No. I'm not.

VT is Vermont. Vermont is "Solid Obama" on all three maps. On the first map, I predict New Hampshire will go McCain.

On the latter two, I give Obama New Hampshire (along with other states) but show how Obama will lose if he cannot win the big swing states. And these are states he is not performing well in. He is not performing better than Kerry.

Michigan I flip on the latter two maps because I am convinced McCain will take Michigan this cycle, and thus, many other states will be irrelevant, unless Obama can flip multiple former red ones. And even if he takes Michigan and flips a couple (IA and CO) he will still lose.



Yes. Just like Hillary's PA debate really cost her. It cost her big.

But then again, Obama didn't want any more debates after that one.

Tell you much?

Attacks from all sides! Bonus round! It's a Daily TRIPLE! Take that, Trebek!



Honey-chile. You want to say that in the Tri-Cities you have never met a person that says they hate Kwame -- and by extension -- corrupt Detroit? I hear that even from Obama supporters. Obama supporters just say that Kwame & Obama are different and should not be compared. Independents? Not so much.

You think Saul Azunis will ignore that golden opportunity?

I am from Lansing. My permanent residence is in Lansing. Yes, the economy is suffering. The electorate trusted in Granholm (and I still do!) but her approval rate is still tanking. Screaming about this won't fix it: the electorate is dead-set. You have a Dem structure in Michigan that has a Gov. with low approval ratings, a corrupt "black" city with a felon for a former Mayor, and a party that blew $10m on a primary election in which Obama removed his name!

Really? Tri-cities or not, Lansing or not, the election will not be won in Saginaw, Ingham, Washtenaw, and Wayne counties. Trust. Michigan will go red, red, red this year.

After all, we are the same state that re-elected Granholm by 14 points but -- in the same year -- Constitutionally banned Affirmative Action by 16.

People do love to split their tickets.


Hey! I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you, courtesy of Gov. Palin.

Obama will pick up Iowa and maybe New Mexico compared to 2004.

McCain will take New Hampshire and either Michigan or Wisconsin (if not both).

That's how this is gonna roll.

Count the EV's.

Oh, yes!

Since Obama is now "THE" nominee -- even though he technically is not -- and already had delegates stolen to embolden his "insumountable" count, why -- sure -- let's count Michigan! In full! You mattered!

Cheap pander, just like the heinous RBC decision. I voted Kerry in '04. This year? McCain. Don't mess around with Michigan!

I forgot he'd said that.

Oh dear! Looks like he was wrong. SHOCK.


Maybe she should have said that more often?
(I do believe Novaya denied being a dude in one of her last posts on this thread)

[LtMarvel]

And that will be played over and over on the MSM which all but ignored Biden not knowing who was president and that TV wasn't invented when the stock market crashed. Also nice of him to bring up that violence against women act that was uh declaired unconstitutional...
What? That was covered everywhere in debate previews. Will Biden make another gaffe like that?

Will Pallin melt down?

Answer to both: No.

[FalconX2000]

Wait a minute. That hypothetical electoral map quote, which really assumes alot of swing failures on Obama's part, shows New Mexico as a lean red state. That can't be right.

[Stressfactor]

Wait a minute. That hypothetical electoral map quote, which really assumes alot of swing failures on Obama's part, shows New Mexico as a lean red state. That can't be right.


Said map was also put together by Novaya Havok who is... well.... a Palin booster to put it mildly.

[the4thpip]

Wait a minute. That hypothetical electoral map quote, which really assumes alot of swing failures on Obama's part, shows New Mexico as a lean red state. That can't be right.

True, that never happened. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nm/new_mexico_mccain_vs_obama-448.html)

The map came from the mind of an angry white woman.

[Demon Heart]

Okay, who posted that map? Don't you know anything can happen. Thing can change. Don't posted a map and be like 'this is how it going to be'. You're just being a fool. Like the Fool on the hill. Yeah, that's the Beetles.

[C-Cool]

True, that never happened. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nm/new_mexico_mccain_vs_obama-448.html)

The map came from the mind of an angry white woman.

"It's a MAN, BABY!"

or a woman, I forgot...

[the4thpip]

"It's a MAN, BABY!"

or a woman, I forgot...

Novaya clarified her gender in this post. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7550224&postcount=6889)

[Charles RB]

Ah well.

She was still wrong, so ya boo sucks to her. :tongue:

[the4thpip]

Oct. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Alaska Republican lawmakers and the state attorney general lost their bid to block a legislative investigation of Governor Sarah Palin's firing of the state police chief.



In his ruling yesterday, issued minutes before the start of the vice-presidential debate, Alaska state court Judge Peter Michalski said the Alaska Legislative Council can move ahead with its investigation, including having the state Senate Judiciary Committee subpoena Palin aides to testify.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/asir3lowxkky;_ylt=Aryjox0hWyQ2UxdJtFdFYDJhr7sF

[Agent Helix]

Novaya clarified her gender in this post. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7550224&postcount=6889)

It looks more to me that the clarification in that post is to whether he, she, or it (and who really cares?) is playing "fast and loose" with the maps.

[Arrogantcur]

It doesn't matter what Novaya's sex is, what matters is that Novaya's brain does not seem to be functioning properly.

[Jake V]

Novaya clarified her gender in this post. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7550224&postcount=6889)

He's a guy and his name is Ben.

His last name is "Ring" if he told the truth when I was friends with him on facebook.

[the4thpip]

He's a guy and his name is Ben.

His last name is "Ring" if he told the truth when I was friends with him on facebook.

Both those things may have changed since.

[Jake V]

Both those things may have changed since.

Well yeah. The operative word here is was.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

http://www.etherlair.com/images/net/motivational/5.jpg

[Infra-Man]

Like love, craziness has no sex nor gender.

[the4thpip]

Looks like the bailout plan passed the house at the second attempt.

[Infra-Man]

I've come up with a way to describe how the pundits are giving Palin too much credit for being merely better than awful:

They're treating Joe Biden like he's running for vice president and Sarah Palin like she's running in the Special Olympics.

[the4thpip]

Several Democratic members of the House of Representatives Friday said calls from Barack Obama helped convince them to switch their votes and back a 700 billion dollar Wall Street bailout.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Democrats_say_Obama_key_in_bailout__10032008.html

[FalconX2000]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/asir3lowxkky;_ylt=Aryjox0hWyQ2UxdJtFdFYDJhr7sF

....You really have to pity a politician named French in America.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

True, that never happened. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/nm/new_mexico_mccain_vs_obama-448.html)

The map came from the mind of an angry white woman.

Ah well.

She was still wrong, so ya boo sucks to her. :tongue:

Pretty much yes...I mean its already been reported Obama has a 10 point lead in a lot of polls. The only hope McCain has is if Obama slips in the next 2 debates. Beyond that...well....he could always have his campaign claim that by having an ex-gf from Brazil in his Navy days that equals forgien policy experince as we see !:tongue:

Looks like the bailout plan passed the house at the second attempt.

Well its something they knew had to go thru. They couldn't afford to screw up anymore.

I've come up with a way to describe how the pundits are giving Palin too much credit for being merely better than awful:

They're treating Joe Biden like he's running for vice president and Sarah Palin like she's running in the Special Olympics.


Pretty much.... their crowing she knocked it outta the park and was awesome. Except people know she was coming off so rehearsed and the effect was Biden won the debate and not many changed their stance for her.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Democrats_say_Obama_key_in_bailout__10032008.html

John McCain read the same thing and in an interview blasted Obama claiming he "called it in" ect ect. Beyond the fact Obama never was crazy enough to gamble and lose more peoples respect for him like McCain did trying to be "The Man who saved Wallstreet !"

It has to piss McCain off. He took a shot to show his leadership and the fucking bill tanks before his eyes. This on a day where his fellow Republicans all hit the media that morning claiming McCain was a huge part of its success and he's a great leader and made them vote on it. Then it DIED ! HA HA Comedy...:smile:

[kingdom2000]

Looks like the bailout plan passed the house at the second attempt.

I should hope so with around $150B in bribes money added to the bill.

[Royal]

*looks around*

Sooo...like....when is MI turning red?

*looks in empty building's window*

Hello? GOP man, where you go?

[the4thpip]

http://www.pollingreport.com/images/MvO.GIF

[Major Comma]

One thing Biden said last night puzzled me .
When did France and the U.S. kick Hezbollah out of Lebanon?

[beetlebum]

That never happened. As I noted earlier, Hezbollah enjoys support amongst some in the Lebanese population.

I think that Biden may have misspoke, and was referring - not to the terrorist group Hezbollah - but to the neighbouring nation of Syria. The U.S. and the Europeans did cooperate to pressure Syria to move its troops out of Lebanon in the wake of the assassination of Rafik Hariri; but that's a very different thing. And plus, it was mainly a Lebanese effort (at least I think that's what Biden was referring to.....)

Also--I don't like the fact that Biden talked about reducing the amount of foreign aid that we give. The United States gives only about $28 billion ( 0.22 percent of GNI) to other nations, making us - in terms of the aid we give - 20 out of 22 developed nations

(But to be fair, ordinary Americans have donated about $122.8 billion, for the year 2005, and even if it's only 0.22%, it's still more than what other nations give).

If anything, we should be reducing the amount of money we spend on our military expenditures, and increase the amount of aid we dole out. The main reason why people join groups like Al-Qaeda - aside from fanaticism - is poverty. Take a cue from Mohamed Younis' loans to the poor of Bangladesh; the best way to deter people away from terrorism is to alleviate poverty. Increasing the amount of development aid will help, in that regard.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Sarah Palin did so well according to John McCain she will not be booked to do any TV interviews and won't be interviewed this Sunday or next ! I'd hate to see if she did bad.

[Major Comma]

When did McCain say this?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

When did McCain say this?

He didn't.... he was at a rally and proceded to claim Palin beat Biden so good...he felt sorry for his friend. He was smiling and happy as people cheered then this came out....

Keith Olberman added : 'She did so well they won't let her talk to the media for the next 2 weeks and do no interviews ! She is currently according to the campaign not lined up anywhere ."

[Tobias March]

Anne Davies, Washington Correspondent for the Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/hockey-mom-sticks-it-to-the-sceptics/2008/10/03/1223013791545.html), said the following:

But whether Biden or Palin won is not really the issue. The vice-presidential pick matters more in this election than perhaps any other since 1960 because of the real danger of either presidential candidate dying in office.

WTF? Barack Obama is 47. He smokes cigarettes, but has not as yet contracted any disease relating to that. I can see no obvious threat to his health.

Apart from, y'know, being black. In America. In public office. What kind of crap journalism is this? Implied death threats? Really? What president's life isn't at risk from assassination? You didn't hear after the last VP debate - well Cheney might wind up as President, cos if Bush dies....

Hell we all thought Cheney would die because of the multiple coronaries.

This is in just unbelievably bad taste.

[KevinTBrown]

Actually, because his wife complained about it, Obama no longer smokes.

[Major Comma]

I realize its Fox but Palin will be on Greta Van Sustrens show next week
So,
she is getting out there.
Meet The Press is inevitable .

[JKCarrier]

Also--I don't like the fact that Biden talked about reducing the amount of foreign aid that we give.

Didn't he say that he and Obama wanted to increase foreign aid, but that it might have to wait a bit because of the Wall St. bail-out package?

[Arrogantcur]

Mightygodking's liveblog of the debate. (http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2008/10/02/mgk-liveblogs-lots-of-debates-part-two/)

One of my favourite lines:

9:29: Sarah Palin wants to talk more about energy (lines NOT happy) and says that we need to drill - excuse me, “exploit domestic energy sources”, then attacks “east coast politicians.” Tupac, up in the sky, waves his forty-ouncer for her. :biggrin:

[Nick Soapdish]

I am really regretting not making a drinking game out of how many times Palin says "maverick"! :biggrin:

Do you really hate your liver that much?

I don't want to piss anyone off by saying this and it's intended to be a legitimate question, but does anyone think Palin is getting off a little easy because she's a woman? I know the incredibly low expecations for her performance have to do with people's perceptions of her competence (or lack thereof) completely independent of her having a vagina but still...it seems like people are affording her waaaay to much credit just for not getting steamrolled by Biden. It doesn't seem like a male candidate would be given that sort of consideration.

I don't think the expectations are because she's a woman. I think that it's because she did so poorly in the two interviews and didn't get a real chance to make it up (thanks to the McCain campaign).

I thought that she did very well by avoiding the questions that she didn't like and sticking to her prepared answers. But her folksiness wore really thin, really fast.

[Arrogantcur]

I don't want to piss anyone off by saying this and it's intended to be a legitimate question, but does anyone think Palin is getting off a little easy because she's a woman? I know the incredibly low expecations for her performance have to do with people's perceptions of her competence (or lack thereof) completely independent of her having a vagina but still...it seems like people are affording her waaaay to much credit just for not getting steamrolled by Biden. It doesn't seem like a male candidate would be given that sort of consideration.

There are all kinds of double standards in politics and in life when it comes to women and men. Some of them favour men and are unfair to women, and some of them favour women and are unfair to men.

In this particular case, I do believe that the media and the electorate are looking at her differently than they would a man, and that's unfortunate.

[Suzanne]

But her folksiness wore really thin, really fast.
That it did. That sort of crap does nothing for me. In case Gov. Ditz didn't notice, Joe Sixpack (AKA Busch) has been our President during these eight miserable years, and look how well his bumpkin ass turned out.

[mattx110]

That it did. That sort of crap does nothing for me. In case Gov. Ditz didn't notice, Joe Sixpack (AKA Busch) has been our President during these eight miserable years, and look how well his bumpkin ass turned out.
I bet the oval office mini-bar is outa beer too!

[Infra-Man]

There are all kinds of double standards in politics and in life when it comes to women and men. Some of them favour men and are unfair to women, and some of them favour women and are unfair to men.

In this particular case, I do believe that the media and the electorate are looking at her differently than they would a man, and that's unfortunate.

Ditto.

Just imagine if the genders were reversed at the VP debate. Or if you were read the debate transcript by two people of the same sex, names and pronouns altered to conceal the identity of the actual speaker.

If Palin were a man, no one would have given him a pass for just being merely better than awful on debate night. Like most situations in life, Palin is getting a pass because she is an attractive woman--for the content of her brassiere rather than the content of her character.

[Royal]

And filled with JJJEEEBBBUUUSSSS!!!!

[Arrogantcur]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081004/ap_on_el_pr/palin

PALIN: [Joe Biden] did his best to convince us that the two most liberal members of the Senate belong in the White House.

Grrr. First they tried to make Obama out to be the "most liberal member of the Senate" and now it's "the two most liberal members of the Senate." Did Bernie Sanders retire? Is Barbara Boxer invisible? Did Russ Feingold go back in time, accidentally prevent his mother and father from meeting, and thus erase himself from history?

Another thing: is the word "liberal" really an insult in many parts of the U.S. these days? If I were down there and I told somebody "I'm pretty liberal", would they recoil in horror or something? :confused:

Ditto.

Just imagine if the genders were reversed at the VP debate. Or if you were read the debate transcript by two people of the same sex, names and pronouns altered to conceal the identity of the actual speaker.

If Palin were a man, no one would have given him a pass for just being merely better than awful on debate night. Like most situations in life, Palin is getting a pass because she is an attractive woman--for the content of her brassiere rather than the content of her character.

Good point. I also don't think that people would feel sorry for a man the way some people felt sorry for Palin.

[Tobias March]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081004/ap_on_el_pr/palin



Grrr. First they tried to make Obama out to be the "most liberal member of the Senate" and now it's "the two most liberal members of the Senate." Did Bernie Sanders retire? Is Barbara Boxer invisible? Did Russ Feingold go back in time, accidentally prevent his mother and father from meeting, and thus erase himself from history?

Another thing: is the word "liberal" really an insult in many parts of the U.S. these days? If I were down there and I told somebody "I'm pretty liberal", would they recoil in horror or something? :confused:

Good point. I also don't think that people would feel sorry for a man the way some people felt sorry for Palin.

Answer: yes. Much like if you were in other quarters mentioning you were Republican would draw derision and insults. This is politics as polarisation, vilifying your opponents for having differing ideas than yourself.

I hate it.

[kingdom2000]

Anne Davies, Washington Correspondent for the Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/hockey-mom-sticks-it-to-the-sceptics/2008/10/03/1223013791545.html), said the following:

But whether Biden or Palin won is not really the issue. The vice-presidential pick matters more in this election than perhaps any other since 1960 because of the real danger of either presidential candidate dying in office.

WTF? Barack Obama is 47. He smokes cigarettes, but has not as yet contracted any disease relating to that. I can see no obvious threat to his health.

Apart from, y'know, being black. In America. In public office. What kind of crap journalism is this? Implied death threats? Really? What president's life isn't at risk from assassination? You didn't hear after the last VP debate - well Cheney might wind up as President, cos if Bush dies....

Hell we all thought Cheney would die because of the multiple coronaries.

This is in just unbelievably bad taste.

Yeah this kind of thing annoys me. This belief that something important shouldn't be discussed because its in "bad taste" is the reason why many are supporting Palin without considering her credentials as "President Palin".

The simple realiity is that racism exists. Crazy evil assholes exist. Racists crazy evil assholes that will consider assassinating a black president most definitly exist.

The reality is President Obama could be assassinated. Also reality that he could drop of an aneurism at any moment (as could anyone). Just like McCain could from a heart attack. Voter's are supposed to consider worst case scenario when it comes to VP choice and decide if that VP is a concern or not should the mantle be passed.

Its not in bad taste. I wish pundits and the press would bring it up more often. Its something people must consider and right now many will not, dismissing it "not going to happen so why bother thinking about it."

[Suzanne]

Yeah no kidding. Even republicans don't buy that one (or they wouldn't be claiming "gotcha" questions and defending her from mean Katie Couric).

I don't like Palin as a politican but I have to admit as a person she seems all right. Unlike most voters, much like with my bosses, I make a distinction between the person and potential or current job performance. The two are not the same thing (even though people make the mistake of joining them). Plus that Tina Fey look is yums.I hope she pulls a number on Palin again. Her debate performance is begging for it.

Back to the tough questions, it's not like she was asked anything that was, well, tough. "What newspapers do you read?" "Duh!" If she can't even answer that, she's a true bimbo, and we're truly fucked if she and McCain win.

[the4thpip]

I think McCain also made himself more of an assassination target when he picked Palin.
If they somehow (cough voting machines cough) pull of a McCain/Palin win, I would be seriously worried about a Christian fanatic "promoting" pentecostal Palin to the Presidency.

[the4thpip]

Yeah no kidding. Even republicans don't buy that one (or they wouldn't be claiming "gotcha" questions and defending her from mean Katie Couric).

I don't like Palin as a politican but I have to admit as a person she seems all right. Unlike most voters, much like with my bosses, I make a distinction between the person and potential or current job performance. The two are not the same thing (even though people make the mistake of joining them). Plus that Tina Fey look is yums.

She is a corrupt, power-hungry politician with a small-minded fanatical world view. She makes my skin crawl. She reminds me of Nicole Kidman's character in "to die for."

[FalconX2000]

Anne Davies, Washington Correspondent for the Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/hockey-mom-sticks-it-to-the-sceptics/2008/10/03/1223013791545.html), said the following:

But whether Biden or Palin won is not really the issue. The vice-presidential pick matters more in this election than perhaps any other since 1960 because of the real danger of either presidential candidate dying in office.

WTF? Barack Obama is 47. He smokes cigarettes, but has not as yet contracted any disease relating to that. I can see no obvious threat to his health.

Apart from, y'know, being black. In America. In public office. What kind of crap journalism is this? Implied death threats? Really? What president's life isn't at risk from assassination? You didn't hear after the last VP debate - well Cheney might wind up as President, cos if Bush dies....

Hell we all thought Cheney would die because of the multiple coronaries.

This is in just unbelievably bad taste.

I really don't see any death threat there. There is a very real and relatively high chance that Obama would be assasinated by some whacko or racist with a gun. Hell, Obama even had trouble getting black votes at first partially because they feared he'd be shot.

Bush probably improved his chances of not being assasinated by picking Cheney as VP.

Actually, because his wife complained about it, Obama no longer smokes.

He's trying to kick the habit, has admitted he broke and had a light a couple of times. Not that it matters. With his exercise regimen he's in better shape than me, and I'm less than half his age.

[Arrogantcur]

Answer: yes. Much like if you were in other quarters mentioning you were Republican would draw derision and insults. This is politics as polarisation, vilifying your opponents for having differing ideas than yourself.

I hate it.

I hate it too. But let me ask about this in another way...

Would people react negatively if I mentioned I was pretty liberal, without going into deatil, in the most parts of the United States?

Would people more or less not care if I said that in most parts of the United States?

Would people react positively if I said that in most parts of the United States?

I mean, I know that in certain quarters people wouldn't like it, but I want to know if the majority of people in the U.S. think being liberal is bad.

[TomStillwell]

She is a corrupt, power-hungry politician with a small-minded fanatical world view. She makes my skin crawl. She reminds me of Nicole Kidman's character in "to die for."

Here's an interesting article about Palin's days as a council member in Wasilla.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-palin-alcoholoct05,0,7731371.story

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Here's an interesting article about Palin's days as a council member in Wasilla.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-palin-alcoholoct05,0,7731371.story

She basically wanted power and screwed those christian beliefs she touts. Its fun to see her own record sink her.

[Buzz Dixon]

Bush probably improved his chances of not being assasinated by picking Cheney as VP.That's a good joke (and a variant of one used since Nixon/Agnew) but I don't think it has a real life application. With one exception (the assassination attempt on Truman by Puerto Rican nationalists), there have been no genuinely politically motivated presidential/candidate assassinations; they have all been the work of angry, frustrated losers determined to make the rest of the world feel their pain.

Booth's decision to assassinate Lincoln came after the Civil War had ended (the original plan had been to kidnap him and hold him hostage, a far-fetched scheme but at least one with a logical desired result); Sirhan-Sirhan killed Bobby Kennedy because of Sirhan's Jew hatred, not because of any particular political position of Kennedy's (all U.S. presidential candidates have promised to protect and support Israel, so singling Kennedy in particular out for that would be like shooting him for wearing shoes).

Everyone else was a complete wacko, driven by an overpowering sense of grandiose entitlement and angered at a world that failed to recognize their self-proclaimed genius and/or worth.

[FalconX2000]

That's a good joke (and a variant of one used since Nixon/Agnew) but I don't think it has a real life application. With one exception (the assassination attempt on Truman by Puerto Rican nationalists), there have been no genuinely politically motivated presidential/candidate assassinations; they have all been the work of angry, frustrated losers determined to make the rest of the world feel their pain.

Booth's decision to assassinate Lincoln came after the Civil War had ended (the original plan had been to kidnap him and hold him hostage, a far-fetched scheme but at least one with a logical desired result); Sirhan-Sirhan killed Bobby Kennedy because of Sirhan's Jew hatred, not because of any particular political position of Kennedy's (all U.S. presidential candidates have promised to protect and support Israel, so singling Kennedy in particular out for that would be like shooting him for wearing shoes).

Everyone else was a complete wacko, driven by an overpowering sense of grandiose entitlement and angered at a world that failed to recognize their self-proclaimed genius and/or worth.

Oh, comic book supervillains! I should've known!:eek:

[K-DoG7p7]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h209/7p7/1223142093423.jpg

[Buzz Dixon]

Oh, comic book supervillains! I should've known!:eek:If the shoe fits (to be self-reverential)... :wink:

But, seriously, yes: The mindset of most comic book villains (there are exceptions) is the same as virtually all of the U.S. presidential/candidate assassins/would-be assassins. It is a very juvenile and self-centered world view and, if one believes that the philosophy of the supremacy of the self is the root of all evil, a universal one in this day and age.

Supervillains are merely colorful symbols of this mindset. The current tragedy in American comics is that the superheroes are now acting the same way.

[JamesRitcheyIII]

I am really regretting not making a drinking game out of how many times Palin says "maverick"! :biggrin:

[obscure TV Series Reference]
Future President Obama: John--I've met James Garner, I like James Garner. I've enjoyed James Garner's television series role from the early 'sixties--and I've got to tell you--You're no Maverick.
[/obscure TV Series Reference]

[Buzz Dixon]

David Letterman asks: How'd He Do?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N8_u1FLu30

[Infra-Man]

Guess who's about to go more negative:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27018572/

Wonder what smears McCain will be leveling at Obama in the last month before election day.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it still likes to play dirty.

[PatrickG]

How can McCain claim lower taxes when 80% of the country will pay higher taxes under his plan.

He needs to adjust his plan if he's going to make that claim.

[KevinTBrown]

Guess who's about to go more negative:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27018572/

Wonder what smears McCain will be leveling at Obama in the last month before election day.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it still likes to play dirty.

Oh, gee, let's play this game, shall we....?

Hmmm...

McCain has direct ties Keating.

Obama has tenuous ties Rezko.

Palin has her witchcraft scaredy cat minister.

Obama has his over the top minister.

McCain has repeatedly cheated on his wives.

Obama is devoted to his wife.






For every "negative" McCain can bring up, there's a counter. Does he really want to go there...?? What will he say when he's run out of things to spout...? "Hey, he's BLACK!" :rolleyes:

What's the countdown until McCain crosses that unforgivable line and calls Obama the "N-word"?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Oh, gee, let's play this game, shall we....?

Hmmm...

McCain has direct ties Keating.

Obama has tenuous ties Rezko.

Palin has her witchcraft scaredy cat minister.

Obama has his over the top minister.

McCain has repeatedly cheated on his wives.

Obama is devoted to his wife.






For every "negative" McCain can bring up, there's a counter. Does he really want to go there...?? What will he say when he's run out of things to spout...? "Hey, he's BLACK!" :rolleyes:

What's the countdown until McCain crosses that unforgivable line and calls Obama the "N-word"?

Obama can on Tuesday debate bring it up : "Senator McCain , have I ran attack ads on you ? Have I crossed a line and made claims on your personal life ? Why tell the American people you will go to these lengths and run a smear campaign to win ? Let them decide who is the better man for the job of President of the United States . Lets stay on the issues...here...and show we can run fair campaigns."

Obama does this he paints McCain into a corner. If he gets dirty people will see a desperate man who will do anything to win. And prove Barack Obama right.

[KevinTBrown]

*sigh*

And so it begins: They play the Ayers card. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_camp_Obama_is_radical_pals_around_with_terr orists.html)

"Pals around with"????

Really working that folksy talk there, Palin....

[kingdom2000]

All republicans know is lies, disinformation and attacking. They want another war and their man McCain is the man to do it.

[PatrickG]

So I decided to troll the right wing circuit online a bit...

And what do I find?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76933

Philip J. Berg, a prominent Penssylvania Hillary supporter, believes Obama's US birth certificate is fake.

His website: http://obamacrimes.com/

To be fair, he also believes Bush perpetrated 9/11.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0701/S00076.htm

[Adam C]

So I decided to troll the right wing circuit online a bit...

And what do I find?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76933

Philip J. Berg, a prominent Penssylvania Hillary supporter, believes Obama's US birth certificate is fake.

An unsurprisingly it's only being reported on World Net Daily of all places. I wonder if Berg was ringing the bell in that scene from Blazing Saddles.

[PatrickG]

An unsurprisingly it's only being reported on World Net Daily of all places. I wonder if Berg was ringing the bell in that scene from Blazing Saddles.

Berg says he can't possibly be racist because he's Jewish and a member of the NAACP.

.... sigh.

I'm getting a bit frustrated with the way Judaism keeps getting thrown into politics. Being Jewish doesn't say squat about a religion. It was tasteless of Palin to invoke the Holocaust in the debates.

And while I think Obama is a strong supporter of Israel, why should an American have any special loyalty to the Israeli state?

I'm getting sick of Jewishness (and Christianity and islam) being buzzwords in the political process.

Seriously, who gives a damn and who gave them the right to give a damn?

[the4thpip]

U.S. Senate candidate Al Franken has moved into his first solid lead over incumbent Republican Norm Coleman, according to a new Star Tribune Minnesota Poll.

The survey, conducted Tuesday through Thursday by Princeton Survey Research Associates International among 1,084 likely Minnesota voters, shows Franken leading Coleman 43 to 34 percent. Independence Party candidate Dean Barkley is supported by 18 percent of respondents.

Franken’s lead is outside the poll’s margin of sampling error, plus or minus 3.7 points.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/30451119.html

[Arrogantcur]

*sigh*

And so it begins: They play the Ayers card. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_camp_Obama_is_radical_pals_around_with_terr orists.html)

"Pals around with"????

Really working that folksy talk there, Palin....

I find it amusing that Palin started out by saying that she'd been reading the NY Times. "See? I can TOO name a newspaper!" :rolleyes:

[Corrina]

If the shoe fits (to be self-reverential)... :wink:

But, seriously, yes: The mindset of most comic book villains (there are exceptions) is the same as virtually all of the U.S. presidential/candidate assassins/would-be assassins. It is a very juvenile and self-centered world view and, if one believes that the philosophy of the supremacy of the self is the root of all evil, a universal one in this day and age.

Supervillains are merely colorful symbols of this mindset. The current tragedy in American comics is that the superheroes are now acting the same way.

I'm guessing that Sirhan Sirhan picked RFK for assassination because he was both the likely nominee and, by far, the most well-known candidate.

Palin is Nicole Kidman in "To Die For?" That's an excellent analogy, though Palin has stopped short of murder. At this point.

And she's not getting a pass because she's a women, she's getting a pass because she's an *attractive* woman. Unattractive women draw the kind of nasty comments that Hilary & Nancy Pelosi and Janet Reno get.

[FalconX2000]

[obscure TV Series Reference]
Future President Obama: John--I've met James Garner, I like James Garner. I've enjoyed James Garner's television series role from the early 'sixties--and I've got to tell you--You're no Maverick.
[/obscure TV Series Reference]

Perhaps something more people would understand would be

"John, I've met Pete Mitchell. I like Pete Mitchell. I thoroughly enjoyed Top Gun. And Senator, you're no Maverick."

[Buzz Dixon]

Berg says he can't possibly be racist because he's Jewish and a member of the NAACP.

.... sigh.

I'm getting a bit frustrated with the way Judaism keeps getting thrown into politics. Being Jewish doesn't say squat about a religion. It was tasteless of Palin to invoke the Holocaust in the debates.

And while I think Obama is a strong supporter of Israel, why should an American have any special loyalty to the Israeli state?

I'm getting sick of Jewishness (and Christianity and islam) being buzzwords in the political process.

Seriously, who gives a damn and who gave them the right to give a damn?85%+ of the country is Christian or Jewish. Do the math.

[Nick Soapdish]

That's a good joke (and a variant of one used since Nixon/Agnew) but I don't think it has a real life application. With one exception (the assassination attempt on Truman by Puerto Rican nationalists), there have been no genuinely politically motivated presidential/candidate assassinations; they have all been the work of angry, frustrated losers determined to make the rest of the world feel their pain.

Booth's decision to assassinate Lincoln came after the Civil War had ended (the original plan had been to kidnap him and hold him hostage, a far-fetched scheme but at least one with a logical desired result).

Not sure about the original plan, but the eventual plan was to assassinate Seward and Johnson as well.

The guy that was supposed to assassinate Johnson changed his mind at the last minute. And the guy that was supposed to assassinate Seward failed (although he injured him gravely).

Your point still stands though.

I'm guessing that Sirhan Sirhan picked RFK for assassination because he was both the likely nominee and, by far, the most well-known candidate.

Palin is Nicole Kidman in "To Die For?" That's an excellent analogy, though Palin has stopped short of murder. At this point.

And she's not getting a pass because she's a women, she's getting a pass because she's an *attractive* woman. Unattractive women draw the kind of nasty comments that Hilary & Nancy Pelosi and Janet Reno get.

That's not all of it. Hillary isn't unattractive. I'd say that she's attractive, even without a qualifier for her age. But she has some other baggage, such as what she represents for Republicans. (And I think that people have become a little more accepting of forceful women in the last decade.) Also, Palin is sitting in the second-in-command seat which may make her more palatable to sexist pigs.

But being attractive is a big help when it comes to getting a pass from voters. That's even the case with men, although I think to a lesser extent.

[the4thpip]

Tina Fey is back with a take on the debate, with Quenn Latifa as Gwen Ifill:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-i_n_131964.html

The bits about gay marriage are hilarious.

[Tages]

When McCain / Palin win the election, it'll be easier for me to come back, but until November, expect only short glances and a few posts and comments now and then, not the long debates I typically engage in.

If the election were held today, McCain would need to win every single toss-up state to win.

Every. Single. One.

If Nevada or W. Virginia were the only toss-up to flip Obama, it would be an electoral tie. One more than that, hell-O President Obama.

As for why I quoted this, I plan on saving the comment so I can replace the current Samurai quote in my signature with it after the election.

[FalconX2000]

Wow...I never noticed the Samurai quote in your sig till you mentioned it. That would have been an awesome line for any mad scientist.

[king mob]

Today's Observer has an interesting piece regarding how Palin was percieved during the debate.

Never before perhaps has such a tiny gesture assumed such electoral importance as Sarah Palin's wink.

Because while, as the cliche has it, the eyes are the window of the soul, Palin's use of her eyes was a window to the views of women in one of the most hotly contested places in this election.

Palin's eyelash batting got under way from the opening moments of Thursday's contest against Joe Biden - and so did the parsing of its significance at a debate-watching party in Florida.

"She is trying to act like a southern belle. She is not acting like someone who could be president of the United States and John McCain is one heart attack away," said Priscilla Glascock, a 26-year-old nurse who is supporting Barack Obama. "The men are going to love it," she sneered.

Not just the men. "I think it's hysterical," said Amanda Day, 36, a business consultant who is voting Republican. "I think women can relate with being in a situation where it's very serious, you kind of have to step back and add that humour, whether it's a wink or it's a shrug."

But for the host Kit Pepper, 52, a member of the non-partisan League of Women Voters, Palin's winking was an affront to the years she spent trying to build up her own political consultancy firm in a male-dominated world.

"She winked at us," Pepper said in disbelief. "All the claims that the media is sexist and the Democrats are being sexist are out the window. The fact that this woman as a vice-presidential candidate stood on national TV and winked at me completely insults me."

Pepper's home in Winter Park, just outside Orlando, is in the politically volatile swath of central Florida - the main battlefield in a battleground state.

Half of her neighbours have McCain lawn signs, the rest are with Obama. When the guests started arriving with bottles of red wine labelled "Bitch" and "Red Truck" and McCain dancing dolls, they too evenly divided along party lines, choosing colour-coded name tags: red for Republicans, blue for Democrats, and gold for Undecided.

But while the partisan loyalties were established well in advance, the Palin-Biden show soon moved into unfamiliar terrain as the first vice-presidential debate between a male and a female candidate in a generation. For the two dozen women guests, ranging in age from late teens to their 60s, it was impossible to overlook Palin's use of her femininity and Biden's efforts to avoid making gender-related gaffes.

The guests whooped when the CNN reaction meter consistently showed Palin getting a more enthusiastic response from male viewers than women. Biden, in contrast, was a bigger hit with women.

But their own reactions also mixed up the dividing lines of politics and gender. Some of the staunchest Democrats had a sneaking admiration for Palin's audacity - even while handing the debate to Biden on substance. "She is owning it now. Look at her," said Margaret Nolan, a management consultant. "You go girl."

Some of the Republicans could not help disassociating themselves from Palin - even while praising her skill at using winks and a folksy turn of phrase to connect with middle America.

"I can't imagine myself doing that wink," said Lydia Gardner, a Republican local government official first elected in 1987. "I lived in Boston. I lived in Washington and I went to a very cosmopolitan and very sophisticated university where that wink maybe would not have been done. But for her, and for where she is from and for her background it's perfectly appropriate."

Pepper had organised her party half-expecting Palin to self-destruct. Day, on the opposite end of the political spectrum, admitted she had switched off the television set this week during Palin's now notorious interview with CBS. "It was just too embarrassing," she said.

By the end of the night, most of the party agreed Palin had made no significant stumbles. But even as Palin's little flourishes became an Alaskan blizzard of doggone its, bless their hearts, darn rights, hecks, and you betchas, she did not inspire confidence either.

From the depths of the overstuffed sofa, Day gave Biden much higher marks on substance. "He walked all over her on foreign policy," she said, but then argued that Americans don't vote on international issues anyway.

Palin also failed to dispel the impression that she had been fed her lines by Republican handlers and was dutifully spitting them out again. "If I hear her say the word 'maverick' one more time I am going to shoot somebody - and I am a Republican," said Lisa Romine.

If Biden felt a similar frustration, he hid it fairly well from the women in the room, but Barbara Nelen, 52, a massage therapist who wore an "undecided" name tag, thought she picked up some condescension. "At certain times, he just let out a big sigh," she said. "It was pretty clear he looked down on her."

Her daughter, Alexa, a student voting for the first time, did not feel for Palin. "I think she is trying to be more of a motivational speaker than telling us what she would do in the government."

When it was over, Day clenched both fists in the air like a prize fighter and screamed. "She survived, she survived."

Even the Democrats had to agree. Palin had survived - doggone it.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/04/uselections2008.sarahpalin

It's somewhat depressing that 'surviving' a debate is something to cheer about.

[the4thpip]

If the election were held today, McCain would need to win every single toss-up state to win.

Every. Single. One.

If Nevada or W. Virginia were the only toss-up to flip Obama, it would be an electoral tie. One more than that, hell-O President Obama.

As for why I quoted this, I plan on saving the comment so I can replace the current Samurai quote in my signature with it after the election.

Rasmussen is kind of pretending the President gets voted by popular vote majority, but this is still bad news for McCain:

One way of understanding the difficult challenge now facing McCain is to consider the relatively small group of persuadable voters who could still change their mind. The Republican hopeful would have to win nearly 80% of those votes to pull ahead in the race. That’s especially challenging because most of those voters are currently leaning towards Obama. In other words, while the race is not over, McCain needs a significant--game-changing—event to win the White House. Simply doing what he’s been doing a little better will not be enough.

[the4thpip]

There’s no mystery as to why the race has moved in Obama’s direction--it’s the economy. Just before Lehman Brothers collapsed and made visible Wall Street’s problems, 24% of voters said the nation was heading in the right direction. Since then, even that relatively low number has fallen sharply and is now in single digits for the first time ever. Today, just 9% of voters now say that the United States is heading in the right direction. Eighty-eight percent (88%) disagree and say the nation has gotten off on the wrong track.

At the same time that the number who say the nation is heading in the right direction has fallen, Obama’s support has steadily increased. In fact, his level of support has not fallen by even a single point on a single day for any of the twenty-four days dating back to September 12.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[Infra-Man]

*sigh*

And so it begins: They play the Ayers card. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/McCain_camp_Obama_is_radical_pals_around_with_terr orists.html)

"Pals around with"????

Really working that folksy talk there, Palin....

Keep grasping at these, McCain campaign:
http://wholesalebarproducts.com/images/fat-straws.jpg

[TCJohnson]

Tina Fey is back with a take on the debate, with Quenn Latifa as Gwen Ifill:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-i_n_131964.html

The bits about gay marriage are hilarious.

Who was the guy who did Biden? Didn't get the voice right but he made me laugh hard. "I...am better...than THAT!"

[Infra-Man]

So as a Fark regular (a Farker, if you will), I've noticed a new cliche in their political threads. Here be an example:
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/lebowskielection.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/starwarselection.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/nintendoelection.jpg
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/gilliganelection.jpg

[Samuel Catalino]

Oh, gee, let's play this game, shall we....?

No problem.

Hmmm...

McCain has direct ties Keating.

And was cleared.

Obama has tenuous ties Rezko.

Rezko has been convicted and the ties which included a purchase of property that was divided between Junior and Rezko's wife which prompted Junior's comment about the whole affair : "There's no doubt that this was a mistake on my part. 'Boneheaded' would be accurate" Now there is a real housing problem. Don't you wish you could get that kind of deal?

Also the "tenuous" Rezko tie goes all the way back to the time when Rezko offered Junior a job, which he declined. Also contributed to Junior's 2004 Senate run. Also kept in contact with Junior between the time Rezko offered a job to the time he was charged. Junior did return the 11,500 federal campaign money. Did he return the rest of the money Rezko gave him for other campaigns?

Palin has her witchcraft scaredy cat minister.

Correct me if I am in error, but isn't Palin the VP candidate?

Obama has his over the top minister.

Twenty years at the same church and he did not have a clue that he knew what his "spiritual" mentor believed in?

McCain has repeatedly cheated on his wives.

We know he cheated on his first wife. He admitted to it. Has he cheated on Cindy? If the NYT article had true legs on it(unlike the Edwards adultery which did) McCain would be finished by now.

Obama is devoted to his wife.

And we have not seen any evidence to the contrary.






For every "negative" McCain can bring up, there's a counter. Does he really want to go there...?? What will he say when he's run out of things to spout...? "Hey, he's BLACK!" :rolleyes:

What's the countdown until McCain crosses that unforgivable line and calls Obama the "N-word"?


Junior is pointing out his ethnicity at an rate which if McCain even wanted to (which he hasn't and Junior has admitted to as much), why bother?

I am waiting for the counter to the Ayers connection counter, the Rezko counter, and the Wright counter. If McCain wanted to extol Junior's foreign affairs experience, he might ask him to talk about his friend Odinga.

[the4thpip]

Union president Richard Trumka talks about racism affecting the vote:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=7QIGJTHdH50

[the4thpip]

Rove Criticizes McCain's Handling Of Campaign, Gives Electoral Map To Obama
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/rove-criticizes-mccains-h_n_131994.html

[Michael P]

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/nintendoelection.jpg

It says something about me that this is the one I laughed hardest at.

[JKCarrier]

Rove sure is taking a lot of potshots at McCain lately. Maybe it's a deliberate ploy to shore up his "maverick" reputation? "Oh look, McCain is on the outs with Rove! I guess he's not so connected to Bush after all!" :rolleyes:

[Michael P]

Tina Fey is back with a take on the debate, with Quenn Latifa as Gwen Ifill:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-i_n_131964.html

The bits about gay marriage are hilarious.

I want to do Tina Fey right now. But in all fairness, you could say that about me at any time.

[Infra-Man]

More of the fabulous Fark cliche:
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/gangsterelection.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/muppetselection.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/electiongobots.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/bookselection.jpg

[SUPERECWFAN1]

That SNL sketch just cracks me up good. Go get her SNL !:tongue:

[the4thpip]

On "Meet the Press" Sunday morning, vice presidential debate moderator Gwen Ifill said Palin "more than ignored" some of her questions -- she "blew me off." She added that Palin decided to "give a stump speech" instead of a debate, and that there's "little a moderator can do" to stop that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/ifill-palin-blew-me-off_n_132028.html

[Adam C]

It says something about me that this is the one I laughed hardest at.

...I laughed hardest at the robot one...

[Infra-Man]

Sarah Palin fails at reading and context

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html

Palin Misquotes Albright: "Place In Hell Reserved For Women Who Don't Support Other Women"
At a rally on Saturday in California, Sarah Palin offered up a rather jarring argument for supporting the Republican ticket. "There's a place in Hell reserved for women who don't support other women," the Alaska Governor said, claiming she was quoting former Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

The statement came after Palin had recounted a "providential" moment she experienced on Saturday: "I'm reading on my Starbucks mocha cup, okay? The quote of the day... It was Madeleine Albright, former Secretary of State [crowd boos] and UN ambassador. ... Now she said it, I didn't. She said, 'There's a place in Hell reserved for women who don't support other women.'"

Actually, Albright didn't say that. The accurate quote is, "There's a place in Hell reserved for women who don't help other women." (Sources made the same point to CBS's Scott Conroy.)

Palin seemed to realize that the line could be viewed as grating. As the audience cheered, she remarked: "Okay, now, thank you so much for receiving that well. I didn't know how that was gonna go over. And now, California, let's see what a comment like I just made, how that is turned into whatever it'll be turned into tomorrow with the newspaper."

Albright responded to Palin's remarks in a statement to the Huffington Post on Sunday. "Though I am flattered that Governor Palin has chosen to cite me as a source of wisdom, what I said had nothing to do with politics. This is yet another example of McCain and Palin distorting the truth, and all the more reason to remember that this campaign is not about gender, it is about which candidate has an agenda that will improve the lives of all Americans, including women. The truth is, if you care about the status of women in our society and in our troubled economy, the best choice by far is Obama-Biden."

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41989/original.jpg

Getting your knowledge from Starbucks cups, huh? I guess we know what papers she reads now.

[Infra-Man]

Okay, last of the Fark cliches for now...
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/electionart.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/mst3kelection.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/hithhikerelection.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/electiontrains.jpg

[Major Comma]

whats a fark cliche?

[Buzz Dixon]

whats a fark cliche?"[Something] asplodes. Your [something else] surrenders."

[Buzz Dixon]

Okay, I gotta admit, this makes me like the Palin kids more than the Obama kids.

http://go.fark.com/cgi/fark/go.pl?i=3919466&l=http://i35.tinypic.com/2czc1ua.jpg

[Nick Soapdish]

If the election were held today, McCain would need to win every single toss-up state to win.

Every. Single. One.

If Nevada or W. Virginia were the only toss-up to flip Obama, it would be an electoral tie. One more than that, hell-O President Obama.

As for why I quoted this, I plan on saving the comment so I can replace the current Samurai quote in my signature with it after the election.

I haven't seen West Virginia listed as a toss-up anywhere. It's always listed as a McCain lean. But yeah, McCain's 'must-win' states are ... all of them.

[Infra-Man]

whats a fark cliche?

Fark's a newslink site where people can post comments on links posted there. In the threads, they have a bunch of memes that are basically recurring jokes, dubbed Fark Cliches. The "person = thing" stuff I posted are an example of 'em, and maybe the best cliche they've had on that site in a long time.

/slashies

[Evan Waters]

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/mst3kelection.jpg


Must debate this one. Gypsy ran the higher functions of the ship and, when it eventually crashed, went on to make a fortune on Wall Street.

Sarah Palin is obviously Pearl Forrester.

[Grazzt]

Must debate this one. Gypsy ran the higher functions of the ship and, when it eventually crashed, went on to make a fortune on Wall Street.

Sarah Palin is obviously Pearl Forrester.

I like Pearl too much for that.

Palin is Mr. B Natural.

[the4thpip]

Why the negative ads might backfire for McCain:

After pointing out that Obama was eight years old when Ayers' planned the attacks, Begala believes "guilt by association" attacks are dangerous territory for McCain.

Begala said, "This guilt by association path is going to be trouble ultimately for the McCain campaign. You can go back -- I have written a book about the candidate. A dozen researchers go through him. I didn't even put this in the book. John McCain sat on a baord.

"It was the U.S. Council for World Freedom. It was chaired by a guy named John Singlaub who wound up involved in the Iran Contra scandal. It was an ultra conservative right-wing group.

"The Anti-Defamation League, in 1981 when McCain was on the board, said this about this organization. It was affiliated with the World Anti-Communist League, the parent organization which ADL said had increasingly become a gathering place, a forum, a point of contact for extremists, racist and anti-Semites."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Begala_McCain_sat_on_board_of_1005.html

[Michael P]

I like Pearl too much for that.

Palin is Mr. B Natural.

...

Damn, you're right.

[Samuel Catalino]

Sarah Palin fails at reading and context

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html



http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41989/original.jpg

Getting your knowledge from Starbucks cups, huh? I guess we know what papers she reads now.

Might be better than getting knowledge from papers who can not report the news accurately, print reports that are untrue, and make up stories.

Perhaps she did misquote, but what is the distinct difference between help and support?

[Samuel Catalino]

That SNL sketch just cracks me up good. Go get her SNL !:tongue:

I thought SNL was supposed to be funny. Well, bang goes another illusion.

I think it is hysterical that Chevy Chase suffers a lot from his injuries that he sustained while he mocked Gerald Ford. Now, that is funny. :biggrin:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I thought SNL was supposed to be funny. Well, bang goes another illusion.

It is funny...I suppose ya missed Sudakis playing Biden : "Scranton PA is a real HELLHOLE...don't go there....its hell people !"

I love how Fey could actually walk out and play Palin in real life. And not many could tell....with her being a fool and all.


I think it is hysterical that Chevy Chase suffers a lot from his injuries that he sustained while he mocked Gerald Ford. Now, that is funny. :biggrin:

Chase was sadly a physical comedian...he took falls on SNL and in movies. His falls pretty much hurt him and led to a painkiller addiction. It also made him an asshole to the SNL casts later...as the book has showed.

Political humor has always been a hit on SNL. When they ripped Ford , Reagan , Bush , Clinton and hell...even Nixon.

[Infra-Man]

Might be better than getting knowledge from papers who can not report the news accurately, print reports that are untrue, and make up stories.

Getting info from a disposable drinking container better than any other news outlet? Sam, man, you must be smoking shit I haven't done since college.

Here's novel concept about the news rather than resorting to false dichotomies. Read lots of news sources, fact check sources independently, and keep absorbing and checking information. That's cheaper than drinking caramel mochiattos all day hoping an aphorism will tell you the weather.

Perhaps she did misquote, but what is the distinct difference between help and support?

Albright's quotation was not a political statement, for one.

More importantly, though, in a political context, "support" is often synonymous with "vote for." "Help" is an apolitical word.

[Infra-Man]

Must debate this one. Gypsy ran the higher functions of the ship and, when it eventually crashed, went on to make a fortune on Wall Street.

Sarah Palin is obviously Pearl Forrester.


I like Pearl too much for that.

Palin is Mr. B Natural.

Sticking with just the main cast... how's this? (just made it, unlike the previous ones)

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/mst3kelection-1.jpg

EDIT:
Just for kicks, here are two more of my own I finished up.
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/simpsonselection.jpg

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/bobbysworldelection-1.jpg

[Buzz Dixon]

No, because Professor Bobo was nice.

[Infra-Man]

Darn.. okay... how about this...
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/mst3kelection2.jpg

(maybe Zap Rowsdower (Final Sacrifice) for Biden; Manos or Krankor (also from Prince of Space) for McCain; and Torgo or the girl from Space Mutiny for Palin?)

[KevinTBrown]

Geez, enough with the Fark crap. Once, twice, maybe thrice is worth a smile.... the 20th time is way too much and it loses its humor.



And guys & gals, please stop quoting Catalino. The guy's a tool and many of us have him on ignore for a reason.

[KevinTBrown]

And now the Keating Five scandal rears its ugly head: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14302.html

[Infra-Man]

Sarah Palin may make an SNL appearance.

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/zwecker/1203739,CST-FTR-fey05.article

Take that, Tina: Palin wants to spoof her spoofer
It's looking more and more likely that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin will appear on ''Saturday Night Live'' -- to have some fun with Tina Fey.

As the comedian's impressions of the GOP vice presidential candidate draw laughs from Republicans and Democrats alike, a top honcho from the John McCain campaign tells me there's a debate going on about how to respond.

Some key McCain staffers are content with Palin joking about the "SNL" routines on the campaign trail -- as when scribbled "I'm not Tina Fey" on a supporter's cell phone and said she'd dressed as Fey on Halloween. But others -- including the governor herself -- think a return punch on the NBC airwaves is what's needed.

I'm hearing some sort of Palin tweak of Fey's American Express commercials is in the works.

While next weekend's ''Saturday Night Live'' will be a rerun, it is possible Palin could appear Thursday on the first of NBC's ''Weekend Update'' specials in prime time.

Otherwise, the next orginal 'SNL'' show will be broadcast Oct. 18, a little more than two weeks before the election.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Barack Obama has finally decided to level the biggest playing card against John McCain. Yes folks.... the Keating scandel. Obama plans releasing the ads Monday .

http://news.aol.com/article/obama-ad-links-mccain-to-keating-scandal/195635?cid=3272

ASHEVILLE, N.C. -Democrat Barack Obama, reacting to Republican charges about his links to a 1960s radical, fired back late Sunday with a Web video about John McCain's role in the Keating Five scandal from the early 1990s.
The short video, being e-mailed to millions of Obama supporters, summarizes a 13-minute Web "documentary" that the campaign plans to distribute Monday, spokesman Tommy Vietor said. He said McCain's involvement with convicted thrift owner Charles Keating "is a window into McCain's economic past, present and future."
The video release capped a day of complaints and warnings from Obama supporters. They said McCain was inviting a harsh examination of his past by having his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, repeatedly criticize Obama's association with Bill Ayers, a founder of the Vietnam-era radical group, the Weather Underground.
Palin said Obama sees America as so imperfect "that he's palling around with terrorists who would target their own country." She was referring to Ayers, whose strongest tie to Obama appears to be a 1995 meet-the-candidate event he hosted early in Obama's political career.
Weather Underground members were blamed for several bombings when Obama was a child. Obama has denounced Ayers' radical views and activities.
Rep. Rahm Emanuel, a Chicago Democrat and Obama supporter, warned against McCain's strategy on CNN's "Late Edition" Sunday.
"If we are going to go down this road — you know, Barack Obama was eight years old, somehow responsible for Bill Ayers," he said. "At 58, John McCain was associating with Charles Keating."
"If we really want to talk who is associating with who, we will," Emanuel said. "The American people will lose in that transaction."
A short time later, speaking to thousands of people in Asheville, N.C., Obama said McCain and his aides "are gambling that he can distract you with smears rather than talk to you about substance. They'd rather try to tear our campaign down than lift this country up. It's what you do when you're out of touch, out of ideas, and running out of time."
Noting the nation's serious economic problems, Obama said: "Yet instead of addressing these crises, Senator McCain's campaign has announced that they plan to turn the page on the discussion about our economy and spend the final weeks of this campaign launching Swiftboat-style attacks on me."
Just months into his Senate career, in the late 1980s, McCain made what he has called "the worst mistake of my life." He participated in two meetings with banking regulators on behalf of Keating, a friend, campaign contributor and S&L financier who was later convicted of securities fraud.
The Senate ethics committee investigated five senators' relationships with Keating. It cited McCain for a lesser role than the others, but faulted his "poor judgment."
Also Sunday, Obama unveiled a TV ad on the economy that says McCain was "erratic in a crisis." Some see that as a reminder of McCain's age, 72.
The day's events seemed to point to rising rhetorical heat in the campaign's final month. McCain adviser Greg Strimple recently predicted "a very aggressive last 30 days" of the campaign.
"We are looking forward to turning a page on this financial crisis and getting back to discussing Mr. Obama's aggressively liberal record and how he will be too risky for Americans," he said in a conference call with reporters.

[KevinTBrown]

*ahem*

Look 2 posts above you.... :wink:

[Infra-Man]

The next debate may get ugly given both campaigns looking to go Hanson Brothers (the Slap Shot ones, not the former pop stars) on each other.

If it weren't on this raw food diet, I'd be beering and pizzaing it up all Tuesday night in front of the TV.

[FalconX2000]

Sarah Palin may make an SNL appearance.

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/zwecker/1203739,CST-FTR-fey05.article

I'm pretty sure the 2 of them could appear side by side, Tina Fey could say she was the real Sarah Palin and more than half of the viewers would believe her.

[kingdom2000]

Why the negative ads might backfire for McCain:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Begala_McCain_sat_on_board_of_1005.html

I don't believe it. In pretty much the entire history of campaigning, negative ads result in a neutral gain or a postive gain. The goal is for the "undecideds" to have a negative memory about another candidate when they vote as its just simple human nature that we remember the negative of a person far more easily then a positive.

And before you go "no! thats not true cause i don't do that!!!", I remind you of your bosses. You know those people that don't remember that you did something right 1000 times, just that you did something wrong 1 time. That is the McCain goal, get people to remember that one time. And since republicans, morals, and integrity don't belong in the same sentence, it makes it especially easier for them. Hell, if that Keating ad is true, I give it half a day before they call foul about Obama going negative.

Cause really, if someone is undecided at this point, they can't be terribly bright with ALL the information that is available to them at this point to make a thoughtful decision. More positive is clearly not going to work at this point.

[KevinTBrown]

The next debate may get ugly given both campaigns looking to go Hanson Brothers (the Slap Shot ones, not the former pop stars) on each other.

If it weren't on this raw food diet, I'd be beering and pizzaing it up all Tuesday night in front of the TV.

I am predicting that McCain blows his top in the next debate. Something will push him over the edge...

[Nick Soapdish]

I'm pretty sure the 2 of them could appear side by side, Tina Fey could say she was the real Sarah Palin and more than half of the viewers would believe her.

It's easy. One of them is a parody of a populist politician. The other is a comedian.

[the4thpip]

I don't believe it. In pretty much the entire history of campaigning, negative ads result in a neutral gain or a postive gain. The goal is for the "undecideds" to have a negative memory about another candidate when they vote as its just simple human nature that we remember the negative of a person far more easily then a positive.

And before you go "no! thats not true cause i don't do that!!!", I remind you of your bosses. You know those people that don't remember that you did something right 1000 times, just that you did something wrong 1 time. That is the McCain goal, get people to remember that one time. And since republicans, morals, and integrity don't belong in the same sentence, it makes it especially easier for them. Hell, if that Keating ad is true, I give it half a day before they call foul about Obama going negative.

Cause really, if someone is undecided at this point, they can't be terribly bright with ALL the information that is available to them at this point to make a thoughtful decision. More positive is clearly not going to work at this point.

But my point - and that of the article - is that the negative ads will backfire for McCain because they will lead to negative ads about him, with much more substance.
So - what you talin about?

[the4thpip]

"Though I am flattered that Governor Palin has chosen to cite me as a source of wisdom," Albright told the Huffington Post, "what I said had nothing to do with politics. This is yet another example of McCain and Palin distorting the truth, and all the more reason to remember that this campaign is not about gender, it is about which candidate has an agenda that will improve the lives of all Americans, including women. The truth is, if you care about the status of women in our society and in our troubled economy, the best choice by far is Obama-Biden."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Palin_misquotes_Albright_Albright_speaks_out_1005. html

[the4thpip]

"If you are going to end visits to the state by McCain/Palin, do it," Emmet County GOP Chairman Jack Waldvogel replied, copying a list of Michigan Republicans. "Just don't formally announce that you are 'pulling out' of Michigan, and then come back two days later asking the base core of support to 'keep working.' What a slap in the face to all the thousands of people who have been energized by the addition of Sarah Palin to the ticket. I've been involved in County Party politics and organization for 40 years, and this is the biggest dumbass stunt I have ever seen."

"He has given up on our State? What a total and complete crock of crap," Waldvogel added. "Again, I think McCain owes the Republicans and the People of Michigan a HUGE APOLOGY. SOON!...How on earth are we to get people to work for McCain here, when he has already, publicly, in the media, given up on Michigan? We feel abandoned, we are disappointed, and we are heartsick to know that we aren't important enough for him to fight for."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/GOP_official_McCain_Michigan_pullout_dumbass_1005. html

Don't mess with Michigan! :biggrin:

[FalconX2000]

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20081006_Biden_suspends_campaign_after_death_of_mo ther-in-law.html

:frown:

If you guys feel so inclined, spare a thought for them in your prayers for.

[Corrina]

The next debate may get ugly given both campaigns looking to go Hanson Brothers (the Slap Shot ones, not the former pop stars) on each other.

If it weren't on this raw food diet, I'd be beering and pizzaing it up all Tuesday night in front of the TV.

:hearts Infra-Man for Slapshot reference:

I heard the Tina Fey clip on the TV this morning as I was checking my email. I was pretty sure it was Sarah Palin at first until the crack about Joe SixPack playing a drinking game with 'maverick.'

[FalconX2000]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g_KZb8_S_gNfkFXCP1ugx2cmAUxwD93KT5380

This a very good article detailing the story of Obama's role in the Illinois Ethics Bill.

[Royal]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/GOP_official_McCain_Michigan_pullout_dumbass_1005. html

Don't mess with Michigan! :biggrin:

We've been ignored for so long...this is just par for the course.

[KevinTBrown]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/GOP_official_McCain_Michigan_pullout_dumbass_1005. html

Don't mess with Michigan! :biggrin:

We've been ignored for so long...this is just par for the course.

Only Clinton and Obama wanted their primary votes to count.

And the mere fact that McCain would blatantly say he's pulling out means he does't give a crap about anything, only winning. So we're supposed to put this man in charge? :rolleyes:

[TCJohnson]

I don't believe it. In pretty much the entire history of campaigning, negative ads result in a neutral gain or a postive gain. The goal is for the "undecideds" to have a negative memory about another candidate when they vote as its just simple human nature that we remember the negative of a person far more easily then a positive.

Not always. In the recent campaign for governor in Virginia, the republican candidate went really negative. This cost him a lot in the polls because he was precieved as too petty and nasty. He lost the election.

[Buzz Dixon]

Sarah Palin may make an SNL appearance.

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/zwecker/1203739,CST-FTR-fey05.articleThat's not a stupid move; it at least shows she has a sense of humor about herself.

She's still a pathological liar unfit to be veep, however.