2008 U.S. Presidential Election Mega thread [Archive] - Page 29

Sabrinaset

09-13-2008, 09:35 PM

By my (admittedly Internet-research based) calculations, the easternmost part of Russia and the westernmost part of Alaska are separated by roughly 1,000 miles. Could someone please explain to me how that qualifies as "next door"?

A thousand miles is much too far, just looking at a globe. Here's (http://www.rusnet.nl/encyclo/a/alaska.shtml) a site with some better information ...

Russian Facts

Alaska and Russia share a border. The US-Russian maritime boundary zigzags down the Bering Strait between the Asian and American land masses.

Alaska and Russia are less than 3 miles apart at their closest point in the Bering Strait where two islands, Russia's Big Diomede Island and Alaska's Little Diomede Island, are located. In winter it is possible to walk across the frozen Bering Strait border between these two islands. At its closest, the American mainland and the Russian mainland are 55 miles apart where Alaska's Seward Peninsula and Russia's Chukotka Peninsula reach out to each other.

Paul McEnery

09-13-2008, 09:43 PM

By my (admittedly Internet-research based) calculations, the easternmost part of Russia and the westernmost part of Alaska are separated by roughly 1,000 miles. Could someone please explain to me how that qualifies as "next door"?

If I were forced to live next door to Sarah Palin, I would happily accept that definition.

kingdom2000

09-13-2008, 10:01 PM

I guess in a place with the population density of Alaska, "next door" is extremely relative.

It is whatever it takes to convince the sheep that being a "neighbor" is proof of experience. That people are not scoffing and shaking their head in amusement at the idea is the really scary part. My mother in law, supposedly an intelligent women, actually quoted this nonsense as an example of Palin's qualifications. I just looked at like she was nuts and she dropped the subject.

KevinTBrown

09-13-2008, 10:16 PM

Well, actually, the distance between the 2 mainlands is 53 miles. That's the width of the Bering Sea. However, because of the curvature of the Earth, there's no way in hell you can see Russian mainland from Alaskan mainland.

Now then, technically speaking, there's actually 3 miles that separates Russia from Alaska.... in the form of 2 islands: Big Diomede and Little Diomede.

Here's a pic (Russia is in the background):
http://www.geo.umass.edu/projects/chukotka/images/dio1.jpg

By the way, the international date line separates the 2 islands too. So there's a 23 hour time difference beween them.

Anyway, Palin is technically correct, but only is she's using the 2 islands as an example. But she's dead wrong in being able to see Russia from Alaska.

LtMarvel

09-13-2008, 10:24 PM

I wonder when the last time Palin personally saw Russia?

Kyuubi

09-13-2008, 10:42 PM

I can see Tijuana from my Sister's house. This makes me an expert on NAFTA.

Michael P

09-13-2008, 10:43 PM

I can see Tijuana from my Sister's house. This makes me an expert on NAFTA.

And donkey shows.

KevinTBrown

09-13-2008, 10:45 PM

I can see Tijuana from my Sister's house. This makes me an expert on NAFTA.

And donkey shows.

AND tequila.

section 8

09-13-2008, 10:48 PM

*wakes up* huh? Wha?
(you have my attention)

KevinTBrown

09-13-2008, 11:14 PM

I think the worm has turned: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13181.html

SATURDAY, Sept. 13

10:00 p.m.: Final score: Obama wins the day
By Politico Staff

Sensing a new media cycle on the rise as Politico, The New York Times and Associated Press, among others, took note of the McCain campaign's increasing disregard for the facts in its latest round of attacks, Barack Obama doubled down on his anti-McCain attacks today, launching another salvo in his campaign to discredit his foe's change and reform bona fides.

The DNC released a 65-page document, "No Reformer," asserting McCain has close ties to some 170 lobbyists, and the campaign released a new TV spot and a Web site, McLobbyist.com, as part of an "integrated campaign" that will also feature lobbyist-themed events in some 20 states over the next three days.

At a rally in New Hampshire, Obama, who called on supporters to help those in Houston and elsewhere devastated by Hurricane Ike, kept the barrage going, telling the 7,000 assembled supporters that "they are going to spend the next seven to eight weeks doing is to try to distract you. They’re going to talk about pigs, they’re going to talk about lipstick, and they’re going to talk about Paris Hilton, and they’re going to talk about Britney Spears. They will try to distort my record. And they will try to undermine your trust in what the Democrats intend to do. That’s what they do every election.”

McCain, Palin and Biden, who'd been scheduled to join Obama at the rally, all avoided public appearances, as public attention shifted to Ike. Obama cancelled an appearance on the season premiere of Saturday Night Live tonight.

The upshot for McCain may be a campaign in which both candidates lose their "reform" halos, and suddenly the Arizona Senator's greater experience becomes more appealing.

As our Mike Allen put it in the lead to his dispatch on the campaigns' over-heated back-and-forth statements, "So much for nuance, or elevating the dialogue."

That after McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds responded to Obama's N.H. remarks with an email protesting that "During the event, Barack Obama showed zero restraint in the ferocity of his attacks despite the wreckage in the gulf and his running mate’s cancellation in reaction to it.

"It says a lot about Barack Obama’s judgment that while his campaign canceled his appearance on 'Saturday Night Live' and his running mate stayed home, Obama went ahead and delivered a series of scathing personal attacks. Today’s attacks mark a new low from Barack Obama.”

Obama press secretary Bill Burton responded by accusing McCain of "cynically running the sleaziest and least honorable campaign in modern presidential campaign history. His discredited ads with disgusting lies are running all over the country today. He runs a campaign not worthy of the office his is seeking."

Royal

09-13-2008, 11:25 PM

Indeed, though it's not a deal breaker,Obama favors Net Neutrality

Yet his veep is a RIAA thug.

we don't need tv or internet....they're nothing more than technological luxuries...we can live with out them...why others insist on over inflating their values is beyond me.

I'd like my prez to understand basics of the internet when it comes to national security. Not just smile and wave when someone explains chicken soup to him in technical terms.

Black Vespa

09-14-2008, 01:57 AM

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/09/13/trippi-praised-mccains-first-bold-attempt-to-harness-the-power-of-the-internet.php

read it.

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 03:03 AM

wow....and was it the least bit NECESSARY to go on insulting and cursing at someone that has their own valid opinion?

btw, i stand by what i said. I could stop utilizing the internet tomorrow and my world would not revert back to 1987. that goes for anyone. I guess what i'm saying is their needs to be a counter to all this inflated worth of the internet. it's not that great of an invention. - we don't NEED it as a society, and would do just FINE without it.

You keep saying that, yet you fail to address any single one of the individual points we brought up to show you why you're wrong. If you were my student, I'd fail you at "debate."

You were not playing devil's advocate. You were just being contradictory. If you wanna play at playing devil's advocate, try doing it in a way that makes the other side reconsider their arguments to avoid falling for fallacies and truisms.

http://shortpacked.com/comics/20070502opinions.png

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 03:12 AM

I wonder when the last time Palin personally saw Russia?

I see Russia, I see France, I see Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton go at it on Saturday Night Live!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nMuR1TFq1s&eur

Fabulous clip!
Is that show good again?

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 04:46 AM

If seeing Russia from a remote Alaskan island is foreign policy experience, so is looking at the border of Iraq!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/13/report_palin_did_not_visit_ira.html

RENO, Nev. -- Aides to Gov. Sarah Palin spent Saturday scrambling to explain details of her only trip outside North America in the wake of a report that that trip did not include travel into Iraq, as the McCain-Palin campaign had initially claimed.

BnL

09-14-2008, 04:52 AM

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/09/13/trippi-praised-mccains-first-bold-attempt-to-harness-the-power-of-the-internet.php

read it.

Interesting. Though it begs the question of why he has now decided to lie about his computer savvy. Possibly to seem more "folksy" to the rural conservative base he's been trying to win over? That'd be my guess.

K-DoG7p7

09-14-2008, 05:12 AM

By the way, the international date line separates the 2 islands too. So there's a 23 hour time difference beween them.

Ohh actually there's 21 hour time difference.. All of Alaska (minus a few islands) are +9 despite bordering the International dateline.. (the IDL is usually inn between +12 and - 12)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/International_Date_Line.png

K-DoG7p7

09-14-2008, 05:23 AM

You know.. because of Palin.. i have to rethink my theory about the tie between religious Nut jobs and warm climate..

Royal

09-14-2008, 05:35 AM

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/09/13/trippi-praised-mccains-first-bold-attempt-to-harness-the-power-of-the-internet.php

read it.

So....using email and talking to bloggers make McCain a revolutionary, yet when Obama does it, he's an elitest prick.

Nice try, but I would love this future president to confer with guys like Bruce Schnider, Lewis Lessig and Douglas Rushkoff in order to secure and improve technology instead of looking down at them like some jock whose been told off by the president of the A/V club.

Reading email and talking to bloggers doesn't cut it. If it did, all my aunts should try to find high position in the technological field.

Royal

09-14-2008, 05:36 AM

You know.. because of Palin.. i have to rethink my theory about the tie between religious Nut jobs and warm climate..

It has to do more with social isolation then with climate.

FalconX2000

09-14-2008, 06:44 AM

You know.. because of Palin.. i have to rethink my theory about the tie between religious Nut jobs and warm climate..

Nah. Sarah doesn't want to keep freezing her butt off all year round, so global warming is an essential part of her agenda.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hZrBt31eWuoRhgqVi70ADEIg7dlA

Alan Greenspan has rubbished McCain's tax policy.

4PointOh

09-14-2008, 07:01 AM

Palin's a kook:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?ei=5070&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1221397212-OUkbHTp79NUy0oNr3Ta7ow

Charles RB

09-14-2008, 08:17 AM

So....using email and talking to bloggers make McCain a revolutionary, yet when Obama does it, he's an elitest prick.

The Republican party started sneering at community organisers, something that goes against their alleged values and previous presidential statements, because Obama was one over a decade ago.

The double-standard with blogging is not surprising after that.

Palin's a kook:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?ei=5070&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1221397212-OUkbHTp79NUy0oNr3Ta7ow

Ahhh, cronyism and corruption! Always a good thing for a high level political job!

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 08:24 AM

Palin's a kook:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?ei=5070&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1221397212-OUkbHTp79NUy0oNr3Ta7ow

Let's hope she'll agree to be interviewed on the The View, so that this will reach a broader TV audience.

Black Vespa

09-14-2008, 09:25 AM

You keep saying that, yet you fail to address any single one of the individual points we brought up to show you why you're wrong. If you were my student, I'd fail you at "debate."

You were not playing devil's advocate. You were just being contradictory. If you wanna play at playing devil's advocate, try doing it in a way that makes the other side reconsider their arguments to avoid falling for fallacies and truisms.

leave it the fuck alone, - i've already stated that i did a terrible job in arguing the point. yet you insist on keeping it going. - enough! you've made your point, - let's move on.-

FalconX2000

09-14-2008, 09:29 AM

Let's hope she'll agree to be interviewed on the The View, so that this will reach a broader TV audience.

I was shocked when the View tried their hand at an aggresive journalistic interview with McCain...and apparently did a pretty good job.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1441295320080914

Obama raised $66 million in August.

KevinTBrown

09-14-2008, 09:32 AM

leave it the fuck alone, - i've already stated that i did a terrible job in arguing the point. yet you insist on keeping it going. - enough! you've made your point, - let's move on.-

Once you explain it properly, people won't leave it the fuck alone. Hence the reason you better have a strong argument and not do a "Palin" by dancing around it. It won't fly.

Anyway, here's Tina Fey as Palin and Amy Poehler as Hillary on SNL last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nMuR1TFq1s :biggrin:

Black Vespa

09-14-2008, 09:36 AM

Once you explain it properly, people won't leave it the fuck alone. Hence the reason you better have a strong argument and not do a "Palin" by dancing around it. It won't fly.

Anyway, here's Tina Fey as Palin and Amy Poehler as Hillary on SNL last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nMuR1TFq1s :biggrin:

listen, i'm just tired of the dog-pile. - i made myself an easy target, - i've paid my come-uppance...--you all can find something else to attack. or AT LEAST take into consideration that i know my argument was weak, faulty, and full of assertions.

section 8

09-14-2008, 09:44 AM

listen, i'm just tired of the dog-pile. - i made myself an easy target, - i've paid my come-uppance...--you all can find something else to attack. or AT LEAST take into consideration that i know my argument was weak, faulty, and full of assertions.

Good Luck....

Alex L

09-14-2008, 09:56 AM

You know, the problem I have with bashing McCain for not being computer literate is that everyone has holes in their knowledge of the world. And as old as McCain is, as much as a digital immigrant that he would have to be, I can't really begrudge him for that. I mean, I grew up with computers everywhere, and while I can't do photoshop with them, I can do nearly everything else. I vaguely remember reading a few stories years ago about Bill Clinton keeping millions of dollars in his checking account, when he seemed unaware that keeping them in savings was a better idea. And heck, I come on here, and I read about Adam C, McEnery, BeetleBum, and Black Atom talking about Paine, Kant, Aquinas, and Locke ... and I don't know John Locke from a padlock.

Now, bashing McCain because of where he stands? No problem there. Or if there's a good joke to be made over something silly, sure! But the computer literacy always seemed a bit silly to me. Besides, my lil bratty brother is completely computer literate ... and all he does is download Asian porn all day. So knowing computers is not necessarily a good thing here!

"The Internet is a series of tubes."

Bree, you're a gun aficionado. Surely you remember of the assault weapons ban, in which legislators created laws against certain weapons because they looked dangerous, or had dangerous names?

In other words, they were put in charge of regulating something they knew nothing about.

Admittedly, this tends to apply a little more to Congress than the Exec branch, but considering the importance of the Internet to modern society -- I want someone that at least knows the basics of how it works, what it's used for, etc.

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 10:03 AM

leave it the fuck alone, - i've already stated that i did a terrible job in arguing the point. yet you insist on keeping it going. - enough! you've made your point, - let's move on.-

But I'm only trying to help you do better in future debates.

Ingrate!

http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Daffy.gif

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 10:07 AM

I was shocked when the View tried their hand at an aggresive journalistic interview with McCain...and apparently did a pretty good job.

It's quite likely that McPalin will consider not doing tv interviews anymore.

But then they will remember the old golden rule that the candidates who spend more time on TV usually win.

So once Obama and Biden have done Oprah, The View, Ellen, Larry King, Dave Letterman, Jay Leno, Hanna Montana, Sesame Street, Myth Busters and the Benny Hill Show a few more time, there will be under a lot of pressure to do some more appearances...

Black Vespa

09-14-2008, 10:15 AM

But I'm only trying to help you do better in future debates.

Ingrate!

thanks for the consideration, but believe me--after getting in the ring w/ no gloves, no corner bucket, head gear or even trunks, to just come out swinging with no plan, --well we all saw the results. - but rest assured i will do my due diligence in improving in these matters.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0ikf8kb5Jg8/RvFufX4QE0I/AAAAAAAAA6A/YUMqvalAIXs/s1600/knockout.jpg

http://www.dumbaaldum.org/images/pic-sounds/letter-k/knockout-clipart.jpg

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 10:15 AM

The scum of the Earth endorses McPalin. (http://sequentialsoul.blogspot.com/2008/09/for-freedom-and-safety.html)

I encourage leaving comments.

FalconX2000

09-14-2008, 10:29 AM

The scum of the Earth endorses McPalin. (http://sequentialsoul.blogspot.com/2008/09/for-freedom-and-safety.html)

I encourage leaving comments.

Huh? Should I click something once I'm there? Or is the blog itself omething hateful I don't know about?:confused:

PatrickG

09-14-2008, 10:38 AM

Huh? Should I click something once I'm there? Or is the blog itself omething hateful I don't know about?:confused:

It's Rick Olney's blog.

You know, the guy who cured childhood cancer and taught children to read with comics before anyone else. The guy who has a Star Wars character named after him. And, ah, refuses to pay comic book talent who breech the NDAs which allegedly obligate them not to tell anyone they aren't being paid, under threat of not being paid.

Chris Hansbrough

09-14-2008, 10:40 AM

Huh? Should I click something once I'm there? Or is the blog itself omething hateful I don't know about?:confused:

think the biggest douchebag in history.....then make him even dumber and even more of a douchebag

PatrickG

09-14-2008, 10:41 AM

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 10:45 AM

Chuck Dixon also has a somewhat rose-colored view of Republicans - he claims they don't say mean things about Democrats' kids. View my sig.

Meanwhile... wow... even Rove kinda sorta almost in a roundabout way admits to lies??

Appearing on Fox News Sunday, Rove said McCain had "gone one step too far, and sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know, beyond the 100-percent-truth test.”

PatrickG

09-14-2008, 10:49 AM

Dear god.

So Rove says McCain's gone too far.

O'Reilly says McCain's gone too far.

McCain's daughter says McCain's gone too far.

Infra-Man

09-14-2008, 11:27 AM

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/6623/palincheneysz5.jpg

You can put lipstick on a liar and crook, it's still a liar and a crook

section 8

09-14-2008, 11:37 AM

And in fairness, guilt by association is the kind of tactic I'd rather leave to the Republicans.

Olney may support McCain. But Chuck Dixon, who I believe was among the stuffed, probably does as well.

And Olney was bound to support somebody. I mean, on one hand, I'm glad he chose the evil guy... But I wouldn't hold it against McCain.

Agreed,
McCain has handed out plenty of proverbial knives that can be thrown back at him.

I've been here awhile, don't know who Onley is ( though i'm aware of his existance)
Don't really care, (I doubt it would lower my rent or end any wars)

Just A LOT of Onley referances, as of late, i want to remind my fellow YABSters that not everyone is "In on the joke"

section 8

09-14-2008, 11:39 AM

Dear god.

So Rove says McCain's gone too far.

O'Reilly says McCain's gone too far.

McCain's daughter says McCain's gone too far.

y'know, I think, just maybe McCain might have gone too far.

FalconX2000

09-14-2008, 01:08 PM

-snip-
You can put lipstick on a liar and crook, it's still a liar and a crook

Dear mother o-

PURIFY IT! PURIFY IT WITH FIRE!!!

Nick Soapdish

09-14-2008, 01:11 PM

This is one reason why computer literacy is important:

Many companies that sell stocks have programs that are designed to sell once the stock hits a certain price. And when the market drops, they go into play.

This is a lot of what caused the crash in 1987 (1988?). The stocks went low, the computer programs sold, as they were designed to do, the stocks went lower, more programs clicked into place and....so on.

I believe that had to change that system after that crash.

It is entirely possible that McCain could find a good adviser on these issues. But I would prefer someone who has a better clue as to how the system works.

Well, he picked Phil Gramm as his advisor on economics which he didn't know much about. And Phil Gramm pressed for lowering regulation on mortgage loans, which is arguably responsible for the current mortgage crisis.

He picked Sarah Palin because she's the energy expert of America. Although she doesn't know how much energy Alaska produces.

So I'm guessing that Ted Stevens is going to be his internet expert.

Kevinroc

09-14-2008, 01:14 PM

Well, he picked Phil Gramm as his advisor on economics which he didn't know much about. And Phil Gramm pressed for lowering regulation on mortgage loans, which is arguably responsible for the current mortgage crisis.

He picked Sarah Palin because she's the energy expert of America. Although she doesn't know how much energy Alaska produces.

So I'm guessing that Ted Stevens is going to be his internet expert.

No, no... Ted Stevens will be there to help battle corruption in Washington. :wink:

Sabrinaset

09-14-2008, 01:18 PM

"The Internet is a series of tubes."

Bree, you're a gun aficionado. Surely you remember of the assault weapons ban, in which legislators created laws against certain weapons because they looked dangerous, or had dangerous names?

In other words, they were put in charge of regulating something they knew nothing about.

Admittedly, this tends to apply a little more to Congress than the Exec branch, but considering the importance of the Internet to modern society -- I want someone that at least knows the basics of how it works, what it's used for, etc.

Apparently as has been noted earlier, McCain DOES know how to use the web (http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/09/13/trippi-praised-mccains-first-bold-attempt-to-harness-the-power-of-the-internet.php), or at least e-mail. I'm not sure why he wants to appear as if he doesn't, unless he's using self-depreciating humor and it got taken literally. Or maybe he's trying to appeal to voters like my great-aunt, who just got a computer at a store selling old tech ... and is using Windows '98. Daddy has given up trying to convince her to get a better one. I think she needs an intervention.

And yeah, a lot of the time, these guys are regulating things they don't have the slightest idea about. I'm assuming that's why there are specialized sub-committees in Congress so that you have people who become qualified to learn and speak about certain esoteric subjects. So okay, I know something about the health industry, guns, and to a lesser extent the military from being in a military family, and education because Daddy and my uncle are teachers. But I don't know a thing about issues related to farming, legal issues, or the economy beyond the very basics. And I'm guessing that everyone out there has huge holes in their knowledge base in various subjects, including Presidential candidates, who, I also assume, would hire qualified advisors to cover their weaknesses. Heck, I'm blonde, and I know I would. So this faux issue about McCain not knowing how to use e-mail was never much of an issue for me outside of the humor in it, because he'd have some intern taking care of it for him ... like I'm sure W is now, and I'm positive Clinton had interns taking care of him too. *ahem!*

Just A LOT of Onley referances, as of late, i want to remind my fellow YABSters that not everyone is "In on the joke"

There's several sticky threads about Olney on page one of YABS, plus the Olney thread thats's always near the top of the page, so if anyone isn't in on the joke, it's because they don't wish to be, and the rest of us aren't going to waste any energy caring about said people.

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 01:27 PM

This op ed by Frank Rich got me thinking:

if we’ve learned anything from the G.O.P. convention and its aftermath, it’s that the 2008 edition of John McCain is too weak to serve as America’s chief executive. This unmentionable truth, more than race, is now the real elephant in the room of this election.

No longer able to remember his principles any better than he can distinguish between Sunnis and Shia, McCain stands revealed as a guy who can be easily rolled by anyone who sells him a plan for “victory,” whether in Iraq or in Michigan. A McCain victory on Election Day will usher in a Palin presidency, with McCain serving as a transitional front man, an even weaker Bush to her Cheney.

The ambitious Palin and the ruthless forces she represents know it, too. You can almost see them smacking their lips in anticipation, whether they’re wearing lipstick or not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/opinion/14rich.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

It's often been said that both presidents Bush lived safe from assassination attempts as nobody would have wanted a president Quayle or Cheney.

How much would a Prez McCain's life be at risk from terrorists of the Clayton Waagner breed? People who still consider McCain way too liberal, and who are "smacking their lips" in anticipation of a Pentecostal Presidency?

Corrina

09-14-2008, 02:07 PM

FalconX2000

09-14-2008, 02:27 PM

the4thpip

09-14-2008, 02:28 PM

Andrew Sullivan: Sarah Palin: the most underqualified vice-president ever? (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4746999.ece)

In fact I cannot say anything about this candidacy that takes it in any way seriously. It is a farce. It is absurd. It is an insult to all intelligent people. It is a sign of a candidate who has lost his mind. There is no way to take the nomination of Palin to be vice-president of the world’s sole superpower - except to treat it as a massive, unforgivable, inexplicable decision by someone who has either gone insane or is managerially unfit to be president of the United States. When, at some point, the hysteria dies down, even her supporters will realise that, by this decision, McCain has rendered himself unfit to run a branch of Starbucks, let alone the White House.

section 8

09-14-2008, 03:43 PM

kingdom2000

09-14-2008, 04:36 PM

y'know, I think, just maybe McCain might have gone too far.

And because people are use to republicans doing that, there will be no backlash. If dems did it, the shit would so hit the fan. Somehow, republicans have created a situation where they are measured to a much looser standard (ie there is no standard) then Dems are measured too. The end result is they can pretty much do whatever they want and people just shrug and go "what do expect?"

As a side note, based on polls, McCain has the electoral college lead. Unless something amazing happens, I don't see him losing at this point. The Bush effect is working with Palin. You know, the one where the idiots go "gosh darn that person is stupid and so down to earth like me that I have to vote for them." Long story short, people like stupid and stupid people like Palin.

kingdom2000

09-14-2008, 04:40 PM

Andrew Sullivan: Sarah Palin: the most underqualified vice-president ever? (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4746999.ece)

At this point I think the mistake everyone is making is focusing on Palin. They should use the choice of her as VP as just another tool in the belt to attack McCain. Make her seen irrelvant, treat her as irrelevant. Instead she is getting more attention then McCain which is a mistake. And because she is a woman, as we have already seen, they can use her sex as a means to easily deflect anything said against her. If Obama stands any chance at this point its going for McCain jugular and don't let the VP choice distract from that.

bfrank

09-14-2008, 05:36 PM

" There is nothing about McCain -- and especially not Palin -- that look or sound like Bush/Cheney.

It's not more of the same. And that's the damn truth.

Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit, and you know it....

Kevinroc

09-14-2008, 06:24 PM

Politico has put up an article about why the momentum seems to have shifted to McCain.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13422.html

Buzz Dixon

09-14-2008, 06:25 PM

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-09-14.gif

section 8

09-14-2008, 06:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBghD0XBN5M Given his dancing ability i doubt that's likley, Buzz.

Charles RB

09-14-2008, 06:51 PM

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-09-14.gif

HA. :biggrin:

Danny Donovan

09-14-2008, 07:20 PM

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-09-14.gif

OMG! AWESOME!

Consider it stolen and shared!

Michael P

09-14-2008, 07:39 PM

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2008-09-14.gif

Shades of Bill Hicks.

Sarah Palin, get back to the mall that spawned you.

section 8

09-14-2008, 07:41 PM

i dont think it was a mall, more likely a pod of some sort.

Buzz Dixon

09-14-2008, 08:12 PM

So there is absolutely no chance of misattribution, the strip is SINFEST done by Tatsuya Ishida right...HERE! http://www.sinfest.net/

Alex L

09-14-2008, 08:24 PM

Apparently as has been noted earlier, McCain DOES know how to use the web (http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/09/13/trippi-praised-mccains-first-bold-attempt-to-harness-the-power-of-the-internet.php), or at least e-mail. I'm not sure why he wants to appear as if he doesn't, unless he's using self-depreciating humor and it got taken literally. Or maybe he's trying to appeal to voters like my great-aunt, who just got a computer at a store selling old tech ... and is using Windows '98. Daddy has given up trying to convince her to get a better one. I think she needs an intervention.

Fair enough.

Arrogantcur

09-14-2008, 08:37 PM

PALIN: Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country -- that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God.

All right Novaya, if that's what Palin actually said then I must grudgingly concede that it is not a statement of support for the Iraq War.

So I'd like to know how she feels--about that war and about when starting another war would be jusitified. What she said about the Bush Doctrine, after Gibson explained it to her? Didn't sound particularly peace-loving.

EDIT: Okay, I see you quote her as saying she "hates war."

John McCain said something similar, about how he wanted to avoid war and how he wanted peace, in his convention speech. I'll quote the response of Peter David, who liveblogged that speech. It pretty much mirrored my own...

10:51--Except there has been nothing in any of his various speeches or comments leading up to this that indicate he's anything other than a hawk rather than someone interested in peace. Meanwhile Obama, who talks of negotiation and peace, is pilloried as being soft on security and on our enemies.

If Palin is truly anti-war, she's campaigning with the wrong guy!

And? Hillary knew more than Obama did. Yet you just harangued Hillary over the war and phantom "racism!" ghosts yet now defend Biden. "He was wrong, but he is smart!"

Your choice. You can't knock Hillary and then puppet Biden. You can't say Biden knows more than Palin as a Washington Insider, and then say Hillary does not know more than Barack Obama.

That's the point. You're all hypocrites.

Okay, first of all, I never said anything about Hillary being racist.

Even when Bill Clinton made those comments about how Jesse Jackson won SC, I found it offensive not because of Jackson's race but because Bill was comparing Obama to a guy who ultimately lost. Instead of taking it as "He ran a good campaign here, and Jesse Jackson ran a good campaign here too. Props to both of them," I took it to mean "Big deal, it doesn't mean anything to win South Carolina. Jesse Jackson won it, and did it get him the nomination? Nooooo!"

But I'm getting off-topic here. To start with, Biden did not fight as dirty as Hillary did as far as I know (and I may very well be wrong about that, as I was wrong about the "task from God" quote). But it's because Biden didn't fight dirty that I found him to be less objectionable.

Second, Hillary has been in the Senate only four years longer than Obama. Sure, she was First Lady before that, but that only counts for so much regardless of the fact that she was one of the more active First Ladies in American history.

Third, when comparing Obama and Biden to Palin it works out like this: you have one person who has a couple of decades experience, you have another person who has four years experience, and you have a third person who has NO experience in Washington.

To me, four years is long enough to learn the ropes. And be honest Novaya, if Palin does end up as VP then in 2012 all of her supporters (including you if you haven't seen the light by then) are going to be talking about how much more experienced she has become in the years since John McCain picked her and they will be saying "being in Washington for four years qualifies her for four more years!"

Finally, I'll take a Democrat who sometimes does nothing (Obama) over a Republican who sometimes does bad things (McCain) any day.

Now, full disclosure time. Looking at Biden's Wikipedia entry, I found that he's a self-described "Zionist" and is really, really pro-Israel. Going so far as to say that if Israel wants to attack Iranian nuclear facilities, "(it) is not a question for us to tell the Israelis what they can and cannot do, I have faith in the democracy of Israel. They will arrive at the right decision that they view as being in their own interests."

That bothers me. It's one thing to want the people of Israel to be safe. It's another thing to believe that Israel can do no wrong. Israel can and has done wrong. I found Israel's attack on Lebanon appalling for the same reasons I found the United States' attack on Iraq appalling. If Biden would support another such action I would be pissed off.

That's still better than McCain though, since McCain is even more of a hawk.

I can't say that I have complete confidence that Obama and Biden will always do the right thing. I don't. But if you want to maximize the chances of the President of the United States and his Veep doing the WRONG things, make that President John McCain and that Veep Sarah Palin.

AllisterH

09-14-2008, 09:03 PM

But I'm getting off-topic here. To start with, Biden did not fight as dirty as Hillary did as far as I know (and I may very well be wrong about that, as I was wrong about the "task from God" quote). But it's because Biden didn't fight dirty that I found him to be less objectionable.

.

That might have been due to the fact that he wa sout pretty damn early.

That said, he ALSO used the "He's not ready to lead" line in the debates so using the argument that Hillary had said "Obama's not ready to lead" is a nonissue.

Personally, I thought this was FAIR game since OBAMA himself used the "I'm the candidate of change" thus implying that his democratic opponents in the primaries were more of the same, a.k.a. Bush-lite.

I think for many of Hillary supporters, the fact that anything relating to race got somehow turned their candidate into a racist just pissed them off. Like I said, when Hillary made the point about Robert Kennedy, she was explicitly comparing herself to RFK in the same situation.

Yet somehow, this got portrayed as Hillary wanting to assassinate Obama.:confused: Worse, the DNC didn't come out at all in support of Clinton and Obama kinda simply stepped back and let them twist.

Personally, I don't think Obama is behind in the electoral votes. Ramsussen still shows a 8 count lead. It's tight but I still believe he can pull it off.

re: Palin
The Hail Mary pass by Mccain is looking more and more brilliant everyday. Sure, he is constantly being upstaged by her, but you know what? IF it wins him the white house, McCain's is more than willing to take the win.

If Obama loses, blame Caroline Kennedy, Carter and the rest of his vetting committee. They miscalculated McCain as BADLY as Clinton did with Barack:eek:

The smartest decision would've been to have Hillary as his VP. Sure, many democrats hate the Clintons as being exemplars of gutter style politics, but you know what, none of them were 2-term presidents now were they?

The Obama campaign was working under the assumption that there was nothing that the McCain camp could do to energize the base so any vp pick was pretty safe.

Infra-Man

09-14-2008, 09:14 PM

Saw this on a Fark thread about vice presidents and meeting with foreign heads of state...

GIBSON: I'm talking about somebody who's a head of state, who can negotiate for that country. Ever met one?

PALIN: I have not and I think if you go back in history and if you ask that question of many vice presidents, they may have the same answer that I just gave you.

Dick Cheney - met with dozens of world leaders as Secretary of Defense including Saudi leaders before Desert Storm
Al Gore - met with numerous world leaders while chair of the Governmental Affairs Senate committee and other congressional delegation trips
Dan Quayle - member of Senate Armed Services committee, on several congressional delegations abroad
George Bush - Ambassador to China
Walter Mondale - spent much of his time in the Senate traveling abroad as chair of Intelligence Committee, met with NATO leaders on a regular basis
Nelson Rockefeller - Assistant Secretary of State for Latin American Affairs
Gerald Ford - traveled abroad numerous times while serving as House Minority Leader, met with leaders in Europe, Africa, and southeast Asia
Spiro Agnew - met with Western European leaders on trade negotiation trip while governor of Maryland
H.H. Humphrey - several trips to Western Europe on behalf of his chairmanship of the Select Committee on Disarmament
LBJ - long history of meeting with foreign leaders, most notably while Senate minority leader
Richard Nixon - met with West German chancellor while art of Herter Committee on the Marshall Plan
Alben Barkley - met with Churchill to secure the details of the Lend-Lease Act
Harry Truman - met with Churchill and other Allied leaders while part of the Senate Truman War Committee
Henry Wallace - met with south central Asian and Russian leaders as Secretary of Agriculture
Jack Garner - met with Mexican federal officials during World War I
Chuck Curtis - Met with French, Dutch, and British leaders in regards to defense in the Caribbean as Chairman of the Committee on Coastal Defense
Charles C. Dawes - Met the King of Sweden when awarded the Nobel Peace Prize (among many, many other instances)
Calvin Coolidge - cannot find any evidence he met with any foreign leaders prior to the Vice Presidency

So you have to go back to 1920 to find the last Vice President who had not met with foreign leaders prior to his/her nomination/selection. That's 17 straight Vice Presidents.By the way, the line doesn't end there.

Skip an administration and you get to:

James Sherman - Chair of Committee on Indian Affairs (in 1900, the Indian territories were still considered to be sovereign, and thus he negotiated treaties with their leaders)
Charles Fairbanks - member of Joint High Commission which brought American and British leaders together with Canadian Prime Minister Wilfrid Laurier to deal with issues of land ownership in the Yukon
Theodore Roosevelt - met pretty much farking everyone
Garret A Hobart - Probably the closest analogue to Sarah Palin, spent most of his time in state government, but hosted "sultans and kings" at notorious parties in his Paterson, NJ mansion.
Adlai Stevenson Sr. - spent time in Ireland, but not sure who he met
Levi P. Morton - Ambassador to France, amazingly popular, secured the donation of the Statue of Liberty
Thomas Hendricks - met with French representatives in New Orleans but it doesn't appear he met with any head of state
Chester A. Arthur - met Robert E. Lee, if you want to count that
Will A. Wheeler - now we're starting to get into an age when international travel was not as easy
Schuyler Colfax - attended John A. MacDonald's inauguration as first Prime Minister of Canada
Andrew Johnson - see above regarding Robert E. Lee
Hannibal Hamlin - Minister to France, negotiated the Treaty of 1831
John C. Breckinridge - Negotiated Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in Mexico City
William R. King - Secretary of Legation (aka Consul) to Italy and Russia
Millard Fillmore - no foreign leadership, but was extremely accomplished regardless
George M. Dallas - Ambassador to Russia
John Tyler - nothing
Richard M. Johnson - Met with Tecumseh, much to Tecumseh's dismay. AKA death.
Martin Van Buren - Jackson's Secretary of State.
John Calhoun - JQA's Secretary of State.
D.D. Tompkins - Turned down a chance to be Secretary of State.
Elbridge Gerry - Delegate to France. It didn't work out so well, if you remember your history.
George Clinton - Negotiated the 1783 treaty with Britain
Aaron Burr - Went all over Europe, played both sides of the French Revolution
Thomas Jefferson - Minister to France, Secretary of State
John Adams - Hung out with the King of France, obviously

So there you go. Every United States Vice President. Nearly all of them have met with foreign leaders.

Arrogantcur

09-14-2008, 09:18 PM

re: Palin
The Hail Mary pass by Mccain is looking more and more brilliant everyday. Sure, he is constantly being upstaged by her, but you know what? IF it wins him the white house, McCain's is more than willing to take the win.

Yeah, this is either going to go down in history as an incredibly stupid move or an incredibly smart move, depending on how things go for McCain.

Infra-Man: I'd heard of that list too, although not the details concerning each guy. Thanks for providing it.

EDIT:

I think for many of Hillary supporters, the fact that anything relating to race got somehow turned their candidate into a racist just pissed them off. Like I said, when Hillary made the point about Robert Kennedy, she was explicitly comparing herself to RFK in the same situation.

Yet somehow, this got portrayed as Hillary wanting to assassinate Obama.:confused: Worse, the DNC didn't come out at all in support of Clinton and Obama kinda simply stepped back and let them twist.

What she'd said was something along the lines of "even though I'm behind now, you never know what might happen. Nobody ever thought that RFK would get killed, but he did."

Now when I heard her statement I pretty much took it as I'm sure she intended it, like "something big could happen that changes the whole picture, and that's why I'm staying in the race as long as there's even a slim chance." But still, to talk about a guy who got assassinated on the campaign trail as an example of something happening to change the whole picture? NOT smart, I'm sorry.

AllisterH

09-14-2008, 09:34 PM

Now when I heard her statement I pretty much took it as I'm sure she intended it, like "something big could happen that changes the whole picture, and that's why I'm staying in the race as long as there's even a slim chance." But still, to talk about a guy who got assassinated on the campaign trail as an example of something happening to change the whole picture? NOT smart, I'm sorry.

ARGH:mad:

This is what pisses off Clinton supporters.

This is NOT what she said and you're PROJECTING something she didn't say AT ALL. RFK at the time was TRAILING in the delegate count and there were people telling HIM to drop out as well. He didn't. She was explicitly comparing herself to RFK.

The assassination had NOTHING to do with the comment she said and that is what I mean by the DNC and Obama letting her twist in the wind even though anyone with ANY knowledge of democratic primaries would know that.

Arrogantcur

09-14-2008, 09:48 PM

ARGH:mad:

This is what pisses off Clinton supporters.

This is NOT what she said and you're PROJECTING something she didn't say AT ALL. RFK at the time was TRAILING in the delegate count and there were people telling HIM to drop out as well. He didn't. She was explicitly comparing herself to RFK.

The assassination had NOTHING to do with the comment she said and that is what I mean by the DNC and Obama letting her twist in the wind even though anyone with ANY knowledge of democratic primaries would know that.

Um.

Okay, I guess in that case I didn't take it as she intended it.

I found the exact quote:

HILLARY: "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know, I just, I don't understand it."

All right, this is where I'm confused.

If she wanted to convey that she was doing what RFK did, that she was in a similar position, wouldn't it make more sense to say "Bobby Kennedy didn't give up, and I won't either"? Why did she even mention the assassination?

Let's say she wants to communicate the following: "There is no reason to give up, and people who came before me didn't give up before June. That's because there's always the chance of a comeback."

If she's saying something like that it makes sense to use a historical example of a guy making a comeback because he or she stuck it out until things eventually turned around, right?

Bobby Kennedy didn't make a comeback. He didn't get the chance.

So if Hillary's comparing herself to RFK, she's saying in effect "this guy was in the same situation as me. And he died." What's her point? How is that supposed to illustrate that there was still hope for her campaign?

AllisterH

09-14-2008, 09:58 PM

section 8

09-14-2008, 10:02 PM

Clinton? Racist?
How is that possible? Bill was the first Black prez

Sabrinaset

09-14-2008, 10:04 PM

OR she was trying to imply that Obama was in that same position, and that just as RFK was assassinated, so might Obama be. Remember, there was a VERY strong sense that some nutjob might try to blow Obama off the map, and still is, but I remember it being talked about much more back in the day.

Here's the thing: This is a trained lawyer, and she KNOWS how to choose her words. Whatever else you can say of her, and I think I've said many of them, she's no dummy. So she knew what meme she was trying to throw out there without being too blunt about it, while giving herself enough wiggle room to give her plausible deniability when she was called on it ... "Oh, is THAT what you thought I meant?" And of course, everyone found her excuses disingenuous at best.

But again, the far bigger problem is that Hillary couldn't run a Presidential campaign at all rather than her ability to speak in public.

Arrogantcur

09-14-2008, 10:12 PM

1. She had used that exact same quote beforehand and no-one said anything

2. The fact that you ignore RFK was trailing and he was campaigning still up to his assassination yet somehow this means she wants Obama assassinated?

Why again should Clinton supporters not be offended by the twisting of the Clintons as racists.

Then again, I must admit, I'm slightly amused by the whole "Lipstick pig" kerfuffle.

You're seeing accusations where there are none. Maybe other people would accuse Hillary of racism or wishing death on somebody. Not me.

I'm not saying that she wanted Obama assassinated, or even that she decided to stay in the race in case something happened to Obama. And I'm sorry that this is so frustrating for you. I'm just puzzled as to why she would bring it up.

There's a big difference--just in terms of how what you say is going to be received--between saying "Bobby Kennedy's campaign went into June" and "Bobby Kennedy's campaign went into June before he was assassinated."

Regardless of what she was trying to say, mentioning the assassination of a politician is just not a good idea, because it upsets people. The fact that she said it once before and nothing came of it does not mean that it DOESN'T upset people. It gets them thinking about killing and blood and death, and that is not what Hillary wanted them to be thinking about as I'm sure you'd agree.

So even if she were comparing herself to Bobby Kennedy, mentioning the assassination was a big mistake on her part.

Nick Soapdish

09-14-2008, 11:35 PM

ARGH:mad:

This is what pisses off Clinton supporters.

This is NOT what she said and you're PROJECTING something she didn't say AT ALL. RFK at the time was TRAILING in the delegate count and there were people telling HIM to drop out as well. He didn't. She was explicitly comparing herself to RFK.

The assassination had NOTHING to do with the comment she said and that is what I mean by the DNC and Obama letting her twist in the wind even though anyone with ANY knowledge of democratic primaries would know that.

The assassination had absolutely nothing to do with the point that she was trying to make other than the fact that she introduced it and derailed her own statement.

The implication that I got from her specifically introducing the assassination instead of just leaving it with the previous two long primary seasons was that there was a chance for Obama to be assassinated so she should stick the race out. It's not necessary. After all, if he was assassinated, she would've been the obvious candidate anyway. But it did make her look like she was being a vulture, hanging around just in case somebody dies.

Maybe she had no idea what people might infer from that statement, but I have to assume that she was paying some attention to politics when she was First Lady and when she was in the Senate.

And how much of the voting base do you think remembers about the '68 primary? It's 40 years ago and a lot of the voter base wasn't voting back then. I knew that Robert Kennedy got assassinated after a major victory in the primaries and I had always heard of him as a rising star in the Democratic party and a likely nominee. That's how I assume that most would have heard of him because that's how history seems to be treating him. I didn't know that he was trailing in the delegate count until long after her speech.

Danny Donovan

09-15-2008, 12:39 AM

This is something, that I DO think she said with a very deliberate reason, but not the racist tone many took it to seem.

What she was saying, in the worst way possible, is that anything can happen to the run up to the democratic nomination, which is a reason she refused to drop out despite people urging her to. HOWEVER, what she failed to take into account, was this was probably the LONGEST primary season ever in the nation.

Even in the days that the nominee was made at the convention, people didn't even start campaigning for it until like 6 weeks before the vote. This was 14 months. Over a year of campaigning. So I think people threw out the comparisons to other primaries, because this was so much unlike any other one in history, due to the candidates in question and the length of the battle.

Chuck Todd pointed out that her husband's battle (which she referenced before the RFK mention) was light years shorter than Hillary and Barack's battle. So even though he stayed through to the end, it only ran close to 2 or 3 months.

With the 24hr news leech on your back, it becomes like christmas, they keep preparing for it earlier and earlier. Hell, I would not be surprised if the 2012 primary season began next month.

However, THAT "we ALL know that RFK was ASSASINATED in June right?" bit, was carefully worded for one, because of the upcoming primary was in June, and for two to place that little bit of doubt on whether a black presidential cantidate would survive his first term and if America was willing to take that chance.

She wasn't HOPING he'd be, but she was hoping enough of America would see that as a logical possibility and not vote for the black guy.

It wasn't racisim it was shrewd politics and kitchen sink mentality. .She lost a lot of my respect during the primaries, and only if she campaigns as hard as she promised to for Obama will I ever think about voting for a Clinton.

I was a big fan of Hill and Bill, but this season made me so angry I just can't even think of them fondly anymore.

FalconX2000

09-15-2008, 12:48 AM

No politician in anywhere near their right mind would use the same quote about RFK 3 times and try to imply that her opponent could be assasinated as the reason for staying. The risks outweigh the benefits so much it's not even funny.

It was a stupid line to use. There were plenty of less volatile examples. While the thought might have crossed her mind, the inappropriateness of using it probably didn't sink in. It's not window into her soul or anything.

BnL

09-15-2008, 02:37 AM

http://gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2008/09/greenbergmccain05.jpg

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 03:24 AM

As a side note, based on polls, McCain has the electoral college lead. Unless something amazing happens, I don't see him losing at this point. T

He does not (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10), and has not for about 95% of the time (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/election_2008/electoral_count_no_toss_ups.html) in this campaign. What are you talking about??

FalconX2000

09-15-2008, 03:28 AM

He does not (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10), and has not for about 95% of the time (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/election_2008/electoral_count_no_toss_ups.html) in this campaign. What are you talking about??

That's a unique map...Obama could lose Ohio and Florida and win the election.

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 03:30 AM

Clinton? Racist?
How is that possible? Bill was the first Black prez

And after the way he cheated on Hillary, can you blame her for hating on him just a little bit?

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 03:58 AM

That's a unique map...Obama could lose Ohio and Florida and win the election.

It's based on the average of polls taken by different polling companies for each state.

Starba

09-15-2008, 04:01 AM

Yeah, I've been following the maps at pollster.com, and the new one up at the NYTimes website is pretty similar. They've consistently had Obama ahead, even since Palin was introduced.

http://www.pollster.com/

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/whos-ahead/key-states/map.html?hp

FalconX2000

09-15-2008, 05:22 AM

Chuck Todd has mentioned that if McCain/Palin isn't at least slightly ahead of Obama now, when the 'exciting, completely unknown VP' has just been introduced and is building a bubble of buzz, then the Republican ticket would have absolutely no chance. It's a little hard to imagine her maintaining this level of positiveness throughout, just as Obama has dips in his own levels at points.

KevinTBrown

09-15-2008, 06:18 AM

And, as has been mentioned numerous times before, the poll numbers are definitely off. They're not polling those who are without landlines and/or have not voted in the last 2 elections. That's a VERY large portion of those who are voting for Obama.

TCJohnson

09-15-2008, 06:41 AM

He does not (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=10), and has not for about 95% of the time (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/election_2008/electoral_count_no_toss_ups.html) in this campaign. What are you talking about??

Sad thing is...same was true for Kerry: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/The_electoral_map_four_years_on.html

KevinTBrown

09-15-2008, 06:54 AM

Sad thing is...same was true for Kerry: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/The_electoral_map_four_years_on.html

Ah, but that was pre-Swiftboaters. Had that not happened, I firmly believe Kerry would have won.

In other news... Obama blames GOP for current Wall St. crisis. (http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080915/ap_on_el_pr/obama)

Love this quote from the article:
Obama's running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, said McCain was "launching a low blow a day" and went on to say the Republican candidate stands "with George Bush firmly in the corner of the wealthy and well-connected."

Kevinroc

09-15-2008, 07:04 AM

Here's one of Obama's new ads, targeting McCain's dishonorable campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/15/obama-ad-targets-mccains_n_126382.html

Black Vespa

09-15-2008, 07:08 AM

Here's one of Obama's new ads, targeting McCain's dishonorable campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/15/obama-ad-targets-mccains_n_126382.html

*yawn*......

PatrickG

09-15-2008, 07:37 AM

With the comments from Rove about McCain going too far, I almost wonder if that wing of the party is hoping McCain will lose, then they can run Palin next time around.

Because Rove always has a reason for saying what he says.

Rove isn't a true conservative and neither is O'Reilly.

They've made nice little nesteggs for themselves appealing to a narrow demographic of extremists as a business move.

That demographic is shrinking and so these guys will go where the money is.

Meanwhile, I'm going to take an unpopular position and say that Pat Buchanan desperately WANTS to be one of these guys, a Rove or an O'Reilly. But he's actually too principled to make it work, whether or not you agree with his principles, and his sense of rhythm is off, meaning he's stuck playing catchup to whoever he thinks he should be sucking up to next... and like my dear departed Democratic grandfather (who hated Buchanan, mind you, despite being pretty indistinguishable from him on all non-union issues), Pat Buchanan compulsively picks the losing horse.

The fact that he was anti-Palin and caved to support Palin tells me McCain will lose.

Pat Buchanan has almost never picked a winner. Like I say, I think it's partially because his rhythm is off. And I think it's partly because he isn't terribly good at the kind of opportunism he's patterned himself on. He's spent his whole life trying to be Nixon and failing because he actually has some flashes of reason and when he tries opportunism, he turns into a borderline reactionary, borderline Klansman fringe element. I think this is more because he has a poor grasp of how to practice opportunism effectively than because he actually IS that loathsome. I think he'd actually make a much better decent human being if he ever decided to try that route.

EdContradictory

09-15-2008, 07:44 AM

I'm actually really concerned at this point. That America would put a completely unqualified person in as VP just because she passes the "have a beer with" test, makes me really sad.

AndI'm concerned about Obama inability to recover after McCain's convention bounce. I thought he'd be back on the upswing by now, instead, the EC map looks bleaker.

Infra-Man

09-15-2008, 07:52 AM

LtMarvel

09-15-2008, 08:43 AM

In fairness, a lot of the state polls aren't weekly. We are just now seeing the first state polls post GOP convention.

Stressfactor

09-15-2008, 08:45 AM

The thing I hear over and over from people being interviewed who say they are going for McCain now is that they are voting for him because of Palin and the very first issue out of their mouths is it's because of her "Pro-Life" stance.

Which means that McCain has once again gone to the conservative base as many people have said. But, honestly, I wonder how long the Republican party thinks they can keep this up. Most of those in the true, conservative base are older -- they remember a time BEFORE Roe v. Wade... I honestly think that for people my age and younger, who grew up AFTER Roe v. Wade this is going to stop being a hot-button issue in years to come.

The extreme religious right base is growing older and older and will, eventually die out and the Republicans are not going to know what to do with themselves when they don't have this to fall back on.

Then, just as another matter, I really, really, hate the stupid, short-sightedness of these people. The economy is in the tanker so what is it going to mean if all of these babies the conservatives are so concerned about get born but their parents can't afford a roof over their heads, can't afford medical care to keep them healthy, can't afford food or clothing...

It also tells me that, really, the people who say they are voting for McCain/Palin are the ones who really haven't been hurt by the economy yet. If you're biggest issue is "Right to Life" then you're not facing losing your house, you're not the one who can't afford to gas up your car, you're not the one who just lost your retirement funds in a bank collapse or are worried about losing your retirement funds in a bank collapse, you're not the one who has to economize at the grocery store and worry about having enough to feed your family, you're not the one facing losing your job... etc.

FalconX2000

09-15-2008, 09:13 AM

I would love to hear George Will and Pat Buchanan get into a discussion just to have those two voices go at it--congested vs. constipated, respectively. (I love George Will, btw; Pat Buchanan I have a strange respect for given his unwillingness to equivocate in most instances)

He's got guts. He'll happily jump into a debate with Rachel Maddow no matter how many times she serves his ass on a platter.

Joe Scarborough throws a fit and walks off set.

Bruce Wayne Jr.

09-15-2008, 09:30 AM

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 09:49 AM

http://images.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/09/09/tomo/story.gif

Kevinroc

09-15-2008, 09:53 AM

McCain advisor Donald Luskin on the economy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202415.html

But that doesn't make any of it true. Things today just aren't that bad. Sure, there are trouble spots in the economy, as the government takeover of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and jitters about Wall Street firm Lehman Brothers, amply demonstrate. And unemployment figures are up a bit, too. None of this, however, is cause for depression -- or exaggerated Depression comparisons.

What reality do we live in where people think the state of the economy is not cause for concern?

KevinTBrown

09-15-2008, 09:55 AM

McCain advisor Donald Luskin on the economy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202415.html

What reality do we live in where people think the state of the economy is not cause for concern?

The reality of being a millionaire.

Buzz Dixon

09-15-2008, 10:18 AM

Charles RB

09-15-2008, 11:15 AM

What reality do we live in where people think the state of the economy is not cause for concern?

Worse, what reality when those unconcerned people are advising government?

I finally recognized who Sarah Palin is:

She's that stuck-up bitchy cheerleader in high school who was always picking on everybody who wasn't in her tiny little clique and kissing the teachers' collective ass while dissing them behind their backs.

As I recall, girls like that got slagged off behind their backs by their "mates".

So when she's not around, is McCain making pig jokes?

Michael P

09-15-2008, 11:17 AM

As I recall, girls like that got slagged off behind their backs by their "mates".

So when she's not around, is McCain sniggering about her inexperience?

I would more imagine he's making crude remarks about her body, possibly illustrated with pelvic thrusts.

Corrina

09-15-2008, 11:37 AM

I finally recognized who Sarah Palin is:

She's that stuck-up bitchy cheerleader in high school who was always picking on everybody who wasn't in her tiny little clique and kissing the teachers' collective ass while dissing them behind their backs.

That wasn't hard. As someone who was picked on by the bitchy cheerleader, I figured that out the first day.

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 11:55 AM

Seems like someone at the Pew Research Center might have a lucrative career as a psychic ahead of them. Either that or Pew just has uncommonly great timing, because this summer -- before Sarah Palin was chosen as John McCain's running mate -- it polled Americans to find out how people feel about candidates with young children, and paid close attention to how those attitudes change depending on the gender of the candidate.

The results themselves aren't all that surprising, but they do illustrate just how flexible attitudes can be depending on political situations. In recent weeks, Republicans have leapt to Palin's defense, while some liberals have asked whether she'll be able to handle the demands of both the vice presidency and her five children. But as Pew showed with its generic survey, that's not how things might normally work.

"The findings suggest women with young children pay a 'mommy penalty' among Republicans if they run for Congress. Among Democrats, by contrast, it's the fathers of small children who are at a disadvantage and it's the mothers who are more likely to be strongly supported," Pew's Rich Morin and Paul Taylor write. "Barely one-in-five (21%) Republicans said they were very likely to support a candidate for U.S. Congress who was the mother of school-aged children, while 31% said they would support a father who had the identical personal and career profile."

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/09/15/pew/index.html
http://pewsocialtrends.org/pubs/709/politics-gender-parenthood

KevinTBrown

09-15-2008, 11:55 AM

I would more imagine he's making crude remarks about her body, possibly illustrated with pelvic thrusts.

That wasn't hard. As someone who was picked on by the bitchy cheerleader, I figured that out the first day.

And you're not alone: http://www.snopes.com/politics/info/kilkenny.asp

And quote: "She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe"."

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 11:57 AM

"Based on what you've seen or heard about the so-called 'Bridge to Nowhere' -- a 400 million dollar proposed transportation project in Alaska -- which of the following best describes Sarah Palin's role in stopping the project? Palin personally stopped the project by telling Congress 'thanks but no thanks,' rejecting federal funding. OR, Palin dropped her support for the project only after it became clear that Congress would not fund it."

Personally
Stopped the
Project 24%

Dropped Support
After Clear
That Congress
Wouldn't Fund 41%

Unsure 35%

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08.htm

Shem the Penman

09-15-2008, 12:00 PM

I finally recognized who Sarah Palin is:

She's that stuck-up bitchy cheerleader in high school who was always picking on everybody who wasn't in her tiny little clique and kissing the teachers' collective ass while dissing them behind their backs.

I like "grown-up Tracy Flick" better as a description.

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 12:14 PM

Paging George Orwell:

WILLIAM KRISTOL is now anti-establishment! (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/opinion/15kristol.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

Michael P

09-15-2008, 12:38 PM

Paging George Orwell:

WILLIAM KRISTOL is now anti-establishment! (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/opinion/15kristol.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

In, of course, the most facile and bum-headed way possible.

Why did anyone ever listen to this man?

Paul McEnery

09-15-2008, 12:42 PM

In, of course, the most facile and bum-headed way possible.

Why did anyone ever listen to this man?

They thought he was that guy off Soap who did the Oscars. He's funny!

West Mantooth

09-15-2008, 12:59 PM

It's amazing how Republicans are suddenly populist of the working man. Palin touting her "union member card" and I think I heard McCain talking about better regulations needed to stop the failures in the financials. What Happened to the Free Market Takes Care of ALL?

Paul McEnery

09-15-2008, 01:09 PM

KevinTBrown

09-15-2008, 01:10 PM

AllisterH

09-15-2008, 01:15 PM

Shifting the focus a bit here.....

As loathe as I am to admit it, the Lehman bankruptcy and the aquisition of Merrill by Bank of America, as much as it hurts Wall Street, is probably one of the best things to happen for Obama. Especially when you add in Bears Stearns and numerous banks that failed this year, as well as the collapse of the aution rate preferreds.

Money talks. And when it's the Republicans in office currently, I don't see how anyone can vote to put another one in office with the current state of affairs.

This is when Obama really, really, REALLY needs to focus on the economy and leave McCain (who admits he doesn't have the knowledge) in the dust. He's been talking with his economic advisor's all morning, so I suspect he's about to start hammering that home.

Only problem is.

Americans are REALLY, REALLY stupid.

How the hell can Mccain actually get a standing applause when he says "I'll pt a stop to those wall street badguys" when it was REPUBLICANS who are responsible for most of the gutting of the regulations...

Paul McEnery

09-15-2008, 01:21 PM

Only problem is.

Americans are REALLY, REALLY stupid.

How the hell can Mccain actually get a standing applause when he says "I'll pt a stop to those wall street badguys" when it was REPUBLICANS who are responsible for most of the gutting of the regulations...

What's your relationship to the unregulated market, John?

Oh yeah, the LAST S&L crisis and the Keating Five.

West Mantooth

09-15-2008, 01:30 PM

Shifting the focus a bit here.....

As loathe as I am to admit it, the Lehman bankruptcy and the aquisition of Merrill by Bank of America, as much as it hurts Wall Street, is probably one of the best things to happen for Obama. Especially when you add in Bears Stearns and numerous banks that failed this year, as well as the collapse of the aution rate preferreds.

Money talks. And when it's the Republicans in office currently, I don't see how anyone can vote to put another one in office with the current state of affairs.

This is when Obama really, really, REALLY needs to focus on the economy and leave McCain (who admits he doesn't have the knowledge) in the dust. He's been talking with his economic advisor's all morning, so I suspect he's about to start hammering that home.

THis is turning into the Obama/Clinton campaign all over again.

1.This Palin nomination has just polarized the electorate again. Very few people are going to move at this point. Heck, some of those Republicans would probably be happy if McCain got sick since they really like Palin anyway.

2.The late in the election surge by the conservative population that makes Obama look like he's losing.

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 01:52 PM

Only problem is.

Americans are REALLY, REALLY stupid.

How the hell can Mccain actually get a standing applause when he says "I'll pt a stop to those wall street badguys" when it was REPUBLICANS who are responsible for most of the gutting of the regulations...

And one of his main economic advisers played a BIG role in it!

PatrickG

09-15-2008, 01:57 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfplJywNk1o

McCain will "make them famous". He'made a talking point out of it.
I'm waiting for him to announce his cabinet picks and say, "I told you I'd make them famous."

(BTW, Cam, note that McCain will "veto every beer".)

FalconX2000

09-15-2008, 02:03 PM

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08.htm

At least the media's attentiveness on this issue has kept perceptions mostly correct.

the4thpip

09-15-2008, 02:18 PM

Hockey Moms For Truth! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIypadX3n0)

kingdom2000

09-15-2008, 02:42 PM

This is an example of why I think this country is doomed to mediocrity and collapse. The level of stupidty and general lack of critical thinking is quite high:

**Who Am I? ** Its not who you are thinking....................

**I am under 45 years old, ***
**I love the outdoors,**
**I hunt,**
**I am a Republican reformer,**
**I have taken on the **Republican Party establishment**,**
**I have many children, **
**I have a spot on the national ticket as vice president as with less than two years in the governor's office.** *

Teddy Roosevelt in 1900**

My dad sent that out. His knowledge of history and politics (despite living through 60 years of it) couldn't fill out the back the of a postage stamp, but he forwarded that shit to me. He probably thought it was great and showed why Palin is a good choice.

I see that and my first thought was "what the f##@ does that have to do anything?" Even if those statements 100% represented Palin and Roosevelt (republican reformers/ took on establishment my ass) to a tee what does vague similarties from a president from a 100 years ago have to do with today? Why is it even adults that should know better can't look at something like that and simply go "so? that doesn't mean anything."

The lack of critical thinking isn't just a generation thing, its simply an American thing.

Grazzt

09-15-2008, 02:56 PM

Royal

09-15-2008, 03:02 PM

KevinTBrown

09-15-2008, 03:41 PM

WOW! Great speech by Biden in MI!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13460.html

I hope there's a YouTube of it soon....

Sabrinaset

09-15-2008, 03:43 PM

And now for some more stories in the news!

Did Obama try to stall the troops withdrawl? (http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_tried_to_stall_gis_iraq_withdrawal_129150.ht m)

Some Obama supporters are apparently surprised they may be in for a fight. (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/afc25cf0-827f-11dd-a019-000077b07658.html)

McCain more bipartisan than people think? (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/15/records-show-mccain-more-bipartisan/)

More polling data ... (http://www.siena.edu/level2col.aspx?menu_id=562&id=19322)

Hill campaigns for Obama and unleashes her best catchphrase yet! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091402190_pf.html)

"No way, no how, no McCain and no Palin."

Wow, Hillary really has it. It's like she's the next Rock or something! :rolleyes:

Palin jolts U.S. Capitol, energizes Republicans (http://asia.news.yahoo.com/080914/3/3p134.html)

Bad news for Barack ... Lindsey Lohan bashes Palin, endorses Obama! (http://www.showbizspy.com/showbiz/09142008/Lindsay-Lohan-Lashes-Out-at-Sarah-Palin) Well, at least he has the firecrotch vote! :biggrin:

Buzz Dixon

09-15-2008, 04:54 PM

Wow, Hillary really has it. It's like she's the next Rock or something!Not until she asks Palin if she likes pancakes...

TCJohnson

09-15-2008, 05:05 PM

kingdom2000

09-15-2008, 05:25 PM

I love Snopes' (http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/roosevelt.asp) response to this, making further comparisons.

In fact, that makes a good counter. If you get the same e-mail that kingdom got, mail back the Snopes article that shows how Teddy's academic, political, and military/law enforcement experience dwarfs Palin's.

Thanks for that, I went ahead and replied to the email with this:
For those that lack critical thinking skills (the ones that didn't immediately think "so? What does this have to do with anything?" that would be you I am referring to):

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/roosevelt.asp

The differences in knowledge and scope of experience between the two is substantial and to pretend they have anything more then superficial similarities is an insult to the memory and good work of Theodore Roosevelt.

Hopefully that will stop my Dad from sending such foolishness (cause nope he will not learn from it).

BnL

09-15-2008, 07:25 PM

Sarah Palin sits down for an interview with Betty Bowers. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtJ6nPxv018)

EdContradictory

09-15-2008, 08:45 PM

And now for some more stories in the news!

Did Obama try to stall the troops withdrawl? (http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_tried_to_stall_gis_iraq_withdrawal_129150.ht m)

assuming it's true, he wondered if the Iraqi government might not be better off waiting to negotiate with the next administration, instead of the current lame duck one. And he's right about that.

NY Post biases aside, the only way he's hypocritical is if the Bush Administration was planning on removing all troops in the next three months. Which, of course, they aren't.

FalconX2000

09-15-2008, 09:14 PM

Hockey Moms For Truth! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URIypadX3n0)

...that felt so utterly pointless.

Bad news for Barack ... Lindsey Lohan bashes Palin, endorses Obama! (http://www.showbizspy.com/showbiz/09142008/Lindsay-Lohan-Lashes-Out-at-Sarah-Palin) Well, at least he has the firecrotch vote! :biggrin:

Lohan has blessed us with hot lezbian sexxorz. She is forgiven for her lousy work ethic.

Sabrinaset

09-15-2008, 09:32 PM

Lohan has blessed us with hot lezbian sexxorz. She is forgiven for her lousy work ethic.

The only way McCain can win right now is if Paris Hilton says "If McCain wins, I'll leave the country!"

He'll get a fifty-state sweep!

section 8

09-15-2008, 10:14 PM

The only way McCain can win right now is if Paris Hilton says "If McCain wins, I'll leave the country!"

He'll get a fifty-state sweep!

LOL! this is true

Black Vespa

09-15-2008, 10:23 PM

LOL! this is true

that would cinch it for my vote.

Royal

09-15-2008, 10:45 PM

You guys know that mini docu on Palin's church?

It got taken down. Youtube cites "Inappropriate Content".

Check it out at Vimeo. (http://vimeo.com/1679097?pg=embed&sec=1679097)

kingdom2000

09-15-2008, 11:45 PM

FalconX2000

09-16-2008, 02:06 AM

My mom asked a rather important question that I thought was relevant to Palin's "executive experience". What is the population of that city she was major of and of Alaska? So I did some quick googling for that and other answers (some from Daily Show).

- 2008 population of Wasilla that she was mayer of: 7025 residents (the University of Georgia has a population of 30,000 just for comparison)
- 2006 population of the state of Alaska: 670,000 (city of Atlanta, population of 519,145)
- Population for square mile: 1.1 people per
- Amount of debt Wasilla had when Sarah left office: $20 million (for 7k people).
- Tax cut increase for Wasilla: a sales tax increase to pay for a $15 million sports complex that got bogged down by legal fees ($1.3 million worth) when she refused to buy the property outright in 1998 for $125,000.
- Her administration forced girls to pay for rape kits until then governor Tony Knowles signed a law making it illegal.
- Earmarks she securted via lobbying group Robertson, Monagle, and Eastaugh: $27 million.
- Amount of money she kept from "Bridge to Nowhere" project that she was for before she was against it: $442 million ($25 million already spent on a road that leads to an empty beach)
- Number of investigations against her: 1 "Troopergate" (despite only being in office for 20 months).
- Wants abstinance only education (as her daughter shows that works great).

Going by these standards, the dean of any random univeristy in the country is qualified for the second highest office in the land (and only heartbeat away from the highest). So lets see, poor fiscal responsibily, abuse of power, wasteful spending, questionable ethics, prone to exaggeration and leaves nothing but debt in her wake. Yep she is a "maverick" if by "maverick" you mean a typical republican candidate for office.

There's also the fact that, after way too many firings in way too short a time when she started out, she had to hire someone to actually do the mayoring in her stead or face recall.

The bridge to nowhere thing is more a problem for her as governor than as mayor.

It is true, however, that McCain's campaign has been flat out lying about her earmark record. She got about $27 million as mayor and more money per person in her state than any other state during her tenure. The Young Turks says she defined her role as govenor on the federal level as putting together the best earmark request package possible. Earmarks have their place imo, but they're saying she never requested anything when she was absolute pig for them. Maybe that's why they got so touchy about the animal when it was mentioned.

Major Comma

09-16-2008, 02:17 AM

I Just Heard On MSNBC That Palin is refusing to meet with the chief investigator of theTroopergate scandal.
Sounds like she is TOAST!

the4thpip

09-16-2008, 04:43 AM

I Just Heard On MSNBC That Palin is refusing to meet with the chief investigator of theTroopergate scandal.
Sounds like she is TOAST!

Ah, but it's a "tainted" investigation, so she is showing her fans once again what a reformer she is. :rolleyes:

KevinTBrown

09-16-2008, 04:45 AM

I Just Heard On MSNBC That Palin is refusing to meet with the chief investigator of theTroopergate scandal.
Sounds like she is TOAST!

Also sounds like she's getting bad advice from her lawyer or the McCain campaign... whichever.

Burying your head in the sand and hoping it all goes away is no defense and pretty much guarantees your ass being in jail.

BnL

09-16-2008, 04:52 AM

I Just Heard On MSNBC That Palin is refusing to meet with the chief investigator of theTroopergate scandal.
Sounds like she is TOAST!

Of course she is, barring any political gymnastics to wiggle out of it. When it was reported that her administration uses their personal email rather than their state email as standard practice, because personal email can't be subject to subpoena, it was pretty clear that they had LOTS to hide.

ShaunN

09-16-2008, 05:25 AM

Arrogantcur

09-16-2008, 06:01 AM

Here's one of Obama's new ads, targeting McCain's dishonorable campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/15/obama-ad-targets-mccains_n_126382.html

The trouble with that ad is that they don't show examples. Now I guess there's only so much they can show in a 30 second spot, but surely they could've put something better in there than the opinions of "the media." All the people McCain's won over believe that the media is biased.

It would've worked better if they showed McCain promising to take the high road and then showed a montage of him and his surrogates insulting Obama. Then asking the question of whether this is really a guy who keeps his word.

Which means that McCain has once again gone to the conservative base as many people have said. But, honestly, I wonder how long the Republican party thinks they can keep this up. Most of those in the true, conservative base are older -- they remember a time BEFORE Roe v. Wade... I honestly think that for people my age and younger, who grew up AFTER Roe v. Wade this is going to stop being a hot-button issue in years to come.

That's a good point. On the other hand, it doesn't take much to convince somebody that abortion is bad. All you need to do is describe how it's done, show pictures. It gets an emotional reaction. "That poor baby! That's horrible!" That works on some adults. If a young kid is told about it, then they'll probably be pro-life for life. Shaping a person's beliefs when they're young works. Look at how religions do it.

It's one of those issues where I can understand both sides' view. I used to think that Bush had actually done something right by banning partial birth abortion, before I found out more about the procedure and under what circumstances it was used and why. Even today I'm pro-choice but I wish that all abortions were done in ways guaranteed to cause the fetus no pain whatsoever.

Are there more important issues? Yes. Are a significant percentage of people going to stop caring about this one as the pre Roe v. Wade generation shuffles off this mortal coil? Probably not.

I was concerned in 2000. Now I give up.

I hear that.

That wasn't hard. As someone who was picked on by the bitchy cheerleader, I figured that out the first day.

Sorry to hear--well, read--that, Corrina.

(I have successfully kissed the mod's ass. Now all I need to do is diss her behind her back. :tongue: Kidding, kidding.)

The Invisible Hand of the Market is busy down its Invisible Trousers.

:biggrin:

Only problem is.

Americans are REALLY, REALLY stupid.

We finally agree on something. They really are, based on previous elections. *sigh*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfplJywNk1o

McCain will "make them famous". He'made a talking point out of it.
I'm waiting for him to announce his cabinet picks and say, "I told you I'd make them famous."

You know, the only time I've ever heard that said was first in one of the Young Guns movies (when Billy said "Yoo hoo! I'll make ya famous" to somebody and then shot him, guaranteeing he'd be on the list of William Bonney's victims) and later when the Undertaker adopted it as a catchphrase (which didn't make a lot of sense because he never actually killed anybody).

So unless there's a piece of pop culture I've missed out on, only people who saw the movie and WWE fans will have an idea of what he means, and everybody else will be confused. If beating somebody/stopping somebody/thwarting somebody's plans made that somebody famous, then why did Jeanine Pirro not rocket to stardom as a direct result of being crushed by Hillary Clinton in the 2006 Senate race? Hmm? :rolleyes:

I see that and my first thought was "what the f##@ does that have to do anything?" Even if those statements 100% represented Palin and Roosevelt (republican reformers/ took on establishment my ass) to a tee what does vague similarties from a president from a 100 years ago have to do with today? Why is it even adults that should know better can't look at something like that and simply go "so? that doesn't mean anything."

My immediate response to that is "Okay, that's one example of somebody without much experience who didn't fuck things up horribly. But I'm curious. In all of American history, how many other examples have there been of people without much experience who DID prove to be bad choices?"

Wow, Hillary really has it. It's like she's the next Rock or something! :rolleyes:

She could do way better, agreed.

I Just Heard On MSNBC That Palin is refusing to meet with the chief investigator of theTroopergate scandal.
Sounds like she is TOAST!

I'll believe that when Karl Rove and Harriet Myers become toast for their refusal to testify. So far, they haven't gotten the Judith Miller treatment, and Palin isn't likely to either.

Arrogantcur

09-16-2008, 06:09 AM

Dear Friends,

Here is a BBC story about Palin and her support among white women that is, in my view, a powerful statement on the weaknesses of democracy. For democracy to work, you really do need intelligent, informed and critical voters. How many people actually have the time to be those things is a question, but it seems to me that many of the Palin supporters in this article don't fall into that category.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7617411.stm

Sincerely,

Shaun

Yeah, I'd cite that as an example of what Alister said about the electorate being stupid. :frown:

The other day I had a conversation with my dad, who grew up in the U.S. I said that people should seriously have to take some sort of intelligence test before being given the right to vote.

He responded that this was a controversial issue, and likened it to the requirement that people have photo ID in order to vote.

I said that while not everybody was able to get ID like that, anybody could sit down with a piece of paper and write answers to the questions on it.

He said that actually a lot of people in poor neighborhoods, who aren't very well educated, tend to vote Democratic.

That threw me off for a minute and then I said that maybe they were voting Democratic for the wrong reasons. Because, perhaps, they thought that the Democrats would take care of them and that's all that mattered to them; because, perhaps, they weren't thinking about how their preferred candidate would affect everything else in the country and the world, and they didn't care.

He acknowledged that was possible.

So maybe even when people vote the right way, they do it for stupid reasons. And boy, does that ever suck...

Infra-Man

09-16-2008, 06:43 AM

2000 primaries: Sleazy push polling in South Carolina implies that John McCain had an illegitimate black baby.

2008 general election: Sleazy push polling targets Jewish voters and implies that Obama is pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, anti-American.

Same Rove tactics first used against McCain now possible used by McCain.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Jewish_voters_complain_of_antiObama_poll.html?show all

Jewish voters are complaining of a poll that, after confirming their religion, asks a series of questions that appear aimed at alarming Jewish voters, including linking Barack Obama to Palestinian terrorist groups.

Debbie Minden of Pittsburgh described receiving the call from "Research Strategies" late yesterday afternoon. And a Key West woman, Joelna Marcus, reportedly received a similar-sounding call from the same group, according reports from the Obama-backing organization JewsVote.org and from a liberal blog.

Minden, a psychologist who lives in the Jewish neighborhood of Squirrel Hill, said the poll -- which came from an identified number -- began with relatively inocuous questions about what organizations she belongs to, whether she prefers CNN or Fox News, and how Obama and McCain compare on a range of issues, from national security to hte economy to education.

The caller also asked whether she was Jewish.

"It sounded like a real poll," Minden, 56, asaid.

Then the caller asked, as she recalled: "Would it change your mind about Obama if you knew that his church was anti-Israel? Would it change you rmind if you knew that the leaders Hamas had endorsed Obama? Would it change your mind if you knew he had met with the leaders of Hamas?"

She also said one question asked whether it would change her mind if she learned he were a Muslim, though she didn't recall the precise wording.

The poll lasted about 15 minutes, she said.

Marcus gave a similar account to JewsVote's Mik Moore, who wrote in an email that Marcus was asked if her opinion of Barack Obama would change if she knew that he had given money to the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

Marcus couldn't immediately be reached. If you've gotten a similar poll, or know someone who has, please get in touch.

UPDATE: Jewish readers in New Jersey and Philadelphia report getting the call, as did The New Republic's Jonathan Cohn, who took notes, and lists the negative messages:

- Obama has had a decade long relationship with pro-Palestinian leaders in Chicago

- the leader of Hamas, Ahmed Yousef, expressed support for Obama and his hope for Obama's victory

- the church Barack Obama has attended is known for its anti-Israel and anti-American remarks

- Jimmy Carter's anti-Israel national security advisor is one of Barack Obama's foreign policy advisors

- Barack Obama was the member of a board (sic) that funded a pro-Palestinian chartiable organization

- Barack Obama called for holding a summit of Muslim nations exlcuding Israel if elected president

In conclusion, John McCain would rather lose his honor and dignity than lose an election.

Charles RB

09-16-2008, 06:53 AM

I Just Heard On MSNBC That Palin is refusing to meet with the chief investigator of theTroopergate scandal.

Be quicker to just yell "I AM SO GUILTY!", Sarah.

Burying your head in the sand and hoping it all goes away is no defense and pretty much guarantees your ass being in jail.

Doing An Olney, they call it. :wink:

Charles RB

09-16-2008, 06:55 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7617411.stm

Oh fucking hell. :frown:

"She tells it like it is" - no she doesn't! She lies, often! This is easily discoverable and widely reported!

2000 primaries: Sleazy push polling in South Carolina implies that John McCain had an illegitimate black baby.

2008 general election: Sleazy push polling targets Jewish voters and implies that Obama is pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel, anti-American.

Same Rove tactics first used against McCain now possible used by McCain.

Oh lovely.

the4thpip

09-16-2008, 07:29 AM

Following his loss to George W. Bush in the 2000 South Carolina primary, John McCain did something extraordinary: He confessed to lying about how he felt about the Confederate battle flag, which he actually abhorred. "I broke my promise to always tell the truth," McCain said. Now he has broken that promise so completely that the John McCain of old is unrecognizable. He has become the sort of politician he once despised.

The precise moment of McCain's abasement came, would you believe, not at some news conference or on one of the Sunday shows but on "The View," the daytime TV show created by Barbara Walters. Last week, one of the co-hosts, Joy Behar, took McCain to task for some of the ads his campaign has been running. One deliberately mischaracterized what Barack Obama had said about putting lipstick on a pig -- an Americanism that McCain himself has used. The other asserted that Obama supported teaching sex education to kindergarteners.

"We know that those two ads are untrue," Behar said. "They are lies."

Freeze. Close in on McCain. This was the moment. He has largely been avoiding the press. The Straight Talk Express is now just a brand, an ad slogan like "Home Cooking" or "We Will Not Be Undersold." Until then, it was possible for McCain to say that he had not really known about the ads, that the formulation "I approve this message" was just boilerplate. But he didn't.

"Actually, they are not lies," he said.

Actually, they are.

McCain has turned ugly. His dishonesty would be unacceptable in any politician, but McCain has always set his own bar higher than most. He has contempt for most of his colleagues for that very reason: They lie. He tells the truth. He internalizes the code of the McCains -- his grandfather, his father: both admirals of the shining sea. He serves his country differently, that's all -- but just as honorably. No more, though.
(...)

McCain has soiled all that. His opportunistic and irresponsible choice of Sarah Palin as his political heir -- the person in whose hands he would leave the country -- is a form of personal treason, a betrayal of all he once stood for. Palin, no matter what her other attributes, is shockingly unprepared to become president. McCain knows that. He means to win, which is all right; he means to win at all costs, which is not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/15/AR2008091502406_pf.html

PatrickG

09-16-2008, 07:48 AM

Ah, but it's a "tainted" investigation, so she is showing her fans once again what a reformer she is. :rolleyes:

You know the funny thing?

Politicians, left and right, claim to take the moral high ground in refusing to cooperate with "partisan" investigations, while appealing to Christian values, frequently.

Now... What did Jesus do when faced with a partisan tribunal. As I recall, Peter didn't want him to cooperate. But Jesus was willing to.

Arrogantcur

09-16-2008, 08:27 AM

http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/the_palin_interview.php

Each of us has areas we care about, and areas we don't. If we are interested in a topic, we follow its development over the years. And because we have followed its development, we're able to talk and think about it in a "rounded" way. We can say: Most people think X, but I really think Y. Or: most people used to think P, but now they think Q. Or: the point most people miss is Z. Or: the question I'd really like to hear answered is A.

...

What Sarah Palin revealed is that she has not been interested enough in world affairs to become minimally conversant with the issues. Many people in our great land might have difficulty defining the "Bush Doctrine" exactly. But not to recognize the name, as obviously was the case for Palin, indicates not a failure of last-minute cramming but a lack of attention to any foreign-policy discussion whatsoever in the last seven years.

...

A further point. The truly toxic combination of traits GW Bush brought to decision making was:

1) Ignorance
2) Lack of curiosity
3) "Decisiveness"

That is, he was not broadly informed to begin with (point 1). He did not seek out new information (#2); but he nonetheless prided himself (#3) on making broad, bold decisions quickly, and then sticking to them to show resoluteness.

We don't know for sure about #2 for Palin yet -- she could be a sponge-like absorber of information. But we know about #1 and we can guess, from her demeanor about #3. Most of all we know something about the person who put her in this untenable role.

FalconX2000

09-16-2008, 09:08 AM

http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/the_palin_interview.php

Nice.

In response to Obama's campaign attacking McCain's campaign conduct, the Republican campaign had this gem:

McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds called the ad "a desperate effort to move away from talking about his thin, but alarming record on the issues."

:rolleyes: :biggrin:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122152292213639569.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Here's a pretty good article from the Wll Street Journal showing why Obama's healthcare plan is superior and how this would save the business sector a ton of money.

Oh, and Biden is showing balls:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/16/biden-blames-bush-mccain-for-god-awful-economic-mess/

Sen. Joe Biden, the Democratic vice presidential candidate, said Tuesday that "the middle class is dying" and Sen. Barack Obama's economic plan will reverse that trend by lowering their taxes and raising those of people making $250,000 or more.

"We're letting taxes expire for the very wealthy and giving the middle class a fighting chance," he said.

Asked if that amounted to income redistribution, Biden replied, "I don't care what you call it. The middle class is dying."

"The American worker's been left out in the cold," he said.

FalconX2000

09-16-2008, 09:15 AM

That said...on the subject of labelling democrat tax policies 'income redistribution', I'd like to hear a politician say something like:

The Bush tax policy that McCain wants to make even more extreme is already income redistribution. They are redistributing wealth to the rich. Any tax code that taxes certain people differently from others is income redistribution. But those differences exists because of reasons. If you want to debate my policies with me, go right ahead, but those trying to slap silly labels on me are playing politics with people's pocketbooks. And that's wrong.

Royal

09-16-2008, 09:24 AM

Grazzt

09-16-2008, 09:25 AM

BTW, our great republican party of Michigan is trying to strike many of our newly homeless of the records because they don't have residents at the current time. Most are white, middle class.

Way to look after "your people" MI Repubs.

Not necessarily even homeless. Just people who've had their homes foreclosed. They may still be living in them, and they may even figure out a way to keep them by renegotiating terms.

Infra-Man

09-16-2008, 09:30 AM

Tucker Bounds, a John McCain spokesman, gets pwned on MSNBC, CNN, and even Fox News.

http://gawker.com/5050339/mccain-spokesman-told-off-on-all-networks

KevinTBrown

09-16-2008, 09:46 AM

Tucker Bounds, a John McCain spokesman, gets pwned on MSNBC, CNN, and even Fox News.

http://gawker.com/5050339/mccain-spokesman-told-off-on-all-networks

Hell has officially froze over..... :eek:

FalconX2000

09-16-2008, 10:08 AM

Tucker Bounds, a John McCain spokesman, gets pwned on MSNBC, CNN, and even Fox News.

http://gawker.com/5050339/mccain-spokesman-told-off-on-all-networks

McCain's new attitude towards the media has given us mana from heaven.:biggrin:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26727731#26722398

Joe Biden is doing a good job pounding on McCain again.

C-Cool

09-16-2008, 10:18 AM

Tucker Bounds, a John McCain spokesman, gets pwned on MSNBC, CNN, and even Fox News.

http://gawker.com/5050339/mccain-spokesman-told-off-on-all-networks

Dude just lost his job... and it was his own fault, or should I say, the argument of this Republican Candidacy's fault.

He just sucked at the worst time.

K-DoG7p7

09-16-2008, 10:24 AM

Tucker Bounds, a John McCain spokesman, gets pwned on MSNBC, CNN, and even Fox News.

http://gawker.com/5050339/mccain-spokesman-told-off-on-all-networks

Tip.. Dont eat while reading the first comment on that site :P

LtMarvel

09-16-2008, 10:38 AM

You know, after watching McCain claim the economy is going well on Monday, I've become convinced that McCain is the 2nd coming of Herbert Hoover.

the4thpip

09-16-2008, 11:02 AM

Sarah Palin wins the backing of...

the tanning bed industry.

"Kudos to Governor Palin for standing up to dermatologists and other members of the sun scare industry who are trying to frighten Americans away from UV light."

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/16/ya-cant-make-this-up/

Next: Big tobacco.

the4thpip

09-16-2008, 11:03 AM

Shifting the focus a bit here.....

As loathe as I am to admit it, the Lehman bankruptcy and the aquisition of Merrill by Bank of America, as much as it hurts Wall Street, is probably one of the best things to happen for Obama. Especially when you add in Bears Stearns and numerous banks that failed this year, as well as the collapse of the aution rate preferreds.

Money talks. And when it's the Republicans in office currently, I don't see how anyone can vote to put another one in office with the current state of affairs.

This is when Obama really, really, REALLY needs to focus on the economy and leave McCain (who admits he doesn't have the knowledge) in the dust. He's been talking with his economic advisor's all morning, so I suspect he's about to start hammering that home.

The new Obama ad is all over that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hfh3jBHQ3o

the4thpip

09-16-2008, 11:24 AM

A few weeks ago, McCain himself still admitted that other people had to go online for him, and that he was still learning how to do it by himself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBgP7lJaDO8)

One Obama ad later, his handlers claim he helped create the Blackberry: (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_blackberry)

Oy.

Dreadstar

09-16-2008, 11:32 AM

One Obama ad later, his handlers claim he helped create the Blackberry: (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_blackberry)

Oy.

Enh, this is why you never joke around when a reporter is within earshot.

Eliseu Gouveia

09-16-2008, 11:38 AM

Infra-Man

09-16-2008, 11:57 AM

Here's the problem:
You don't want to vote for Obama; not because of his policies but because he's black. Unfortunately, that sort of thing is not acceptable these days.

The Solution:
The "It's Not Because He's Black" Excuse Wheel® (http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2008/09/its-not-because-hes-black-excuse-wheel.html)

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1629/wheeldu6.png

KevinTBrown

09-16-2008, 12:03 PM

To be honest, I´m not shocked by the republican campaign.
This is what they do.
This is what they´re best at: spewing venom.

What I am amazed at is the amounts of manure Common Joe and Jane are willing to swallow just so they don´t have to elect a black president.

Video footage of McCain molesting baptist children could appear tomorrow on the news, and they´d STILL vote for him.
Makes me wonder:

"- What does it take?"

This just in: John McCain admits to being Muslim.

Fox News is now reporting that McCain leads Obama by 25 points.

Obama responds by saying, "Let's just discuss the issues."

Fox News now reports McCain leads by 46 points.

Joe Biden, while stumping in OH, says, "McCain murders little kittens."

Fox News now reports McCain's lead to be 110 points.

Palin smiles.

Fox News reports that McCain's lead can no longer be measured by human standards and will start using the "O'Reilly Factor measurement tool" to figure out it's polling process. McCain's lead is so large, he trounces all future Democratic hopefuls until 2016.

Obama responds by saying, "McCain hates the Yankees and is a die hard rugby fan."

MSNBC reports Obama and McCain "dead even" in the polls.

Buzz Dixon

09-16-2008, 12:13 PM

In conclusion, John McCain would rather lose his honor and dignity than lose an election.At his age, who could blame him?

Oh, I'm sorry; I thought you wrote "erection"! :tongue:

AllisterH

09-16-2008, 12:17 PM

Um, you guys do KNOW that Obama's economic guru is actually Phil Gramm's boss, right?

Both candidates have horrible economic advisors....

Buzz Dixon

09-16-2008, 12:18 PM

As has been observed elsewhere, "tax and spend" is much better than "cut taxes and spend even more".

Buzz Dixon

09-16-2008, 12:34 PM

Frank Miller* throws down on McCain:

http://shep.ca/pages/maverick.html

Link found via MightyGodKing.com

*...well...kinda...

the4thpip

09-16-2008, 02:28 PM

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/bristolpalinjohnston.jpg

kingdom2000

09-16-2008, 03:12 PM

BTW, our great republican party of Michigan is trying to strike many of our newly homeless of the records because they don't have residents at the current time. Most are white, middle class.

Way to look after "your people" MI Repubs.

What would an election be without republicans trying to disenfranchise thousands of voters. Its part of the reason I have no respect for anyone that labels themselves a republican, because they tolerate and make excuses for that kind of behavior (rather then simply saying I am a republican but I reject those tactics).

Royal

09-16-2008, 03:15 PM

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/bristolpalinjohnston.jpg

So she can divorce later.

the4thpip

09-16-2008, 03:21 PM

http://www.diageohotlinepoll.com/media/charts/20080916-1.gif

Guess what it is, stupid?

Who would do best job handling the economy?*
http://www.diageohotlinepoll.com/media/charts/20080916-2.gif

Michael P

09-16-2008, 03:29 PM

You know, after watching McCain claim the economy is going well on Monday, I've become convinced that McCain is the 2nd coming of Herbert Hoover.

He did backpedal on that pretty quick, saying in an appearance a few hours later that the economy is "in crisis." Obama had already ripped him open on it, though.

Grazzt

09-16-2008, 04:01 PM

You know, after watching McCain claim the economy is going well on Monday, I've become convinced that McCain is the 2nd coming of Herbert Hoover.

I think that's an unfair comparison. I thought that the economy seemed to be doing well when Hoover was voted in.

Arrogantcur

09-16-2008, 07:24 PM

The new Obama ad is all over that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hfh3jBHQ3o

Oh yeah, THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! :evilsmile: Makes up for the ineffectiveness of the "sleazy campaign" ad.

Paul McEnery

09-16-2008, 07:53 PM

You know, after watching McCain claim the economy is going well on Monday, I've become convinced that McCain is the 2nd coming of Herbert Hoover.

Well, here's what Mencken said about Hoover:

the perfect self-seeker... His principles are so vague that even his intimates seen unable to put them into words... He know who his masters are, and he will serve them

Yeah, I think you've got a point.

Chris Hansbrough

09-16-2008, 08:06 PM

It's things like this that I will never vote for a ticket with Sarah Pallin (http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/taco.jpg)

Paul McEnery

09-16-2008, 08:08 PM

That appears to be just a picture of a taco.

However, a trained logician recognizes as a true the well-formed argument:

Picture of a taco --> One should not vote for a Palin ticket.

Kevinroc

09-16-2008, 08:17 PM

Here's a newsweek blog article titled "Palin's Favorability Ratings Begin to Falter."

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/09/16/palin-s-favorability-ratings-begin-to-falter.aspx

Since Sept. 13, Palin's unfavorables have climbed from 30 percent to 36 percent. Meanwhile, her favorables have slipped from 52 percent to 48 percent. That's a three-day net swing of -10 points, and it leaves her in the Sept. 15 Diageo/Hotline tracking poll tied for the smallest favorability split (+12) of any of the Final Four. Over the course of a single weekend, in other words, Palin went from being the most popular White House hopeful to the least.

Corrina

09-16-2008, 09:13 PM

It's neither here nor there, but I've decided I really enjoy listening to Palin's Alaskan accent. It's really interesting. It's like Canadian with schoolmarm mixed in.

I predict most female comedians, who tend to be good mimics, will soon be doing the accent because it's fun.

Infra-Man

09-16-2008, 09:41 PM

Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator (http://personal-space.com/script/script.php)

Sarah Palin has picked out an All-American set of names for her children. There's Track, Trig, Bristol, Willow, and Piper.

Ever wonder, What would your name would be if Sarah Palin was your mother? Well now you can find out!

My name is Shank Piston Palin

Chris Hansbrough

09-16-2008, 09:43 PM

Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator (http://personal-space.com/script/script.php)

My name is Shank Piston Palin

I totally win Creation Schwarzkopf Palin

Infra-Man

09-16-2008, 09:57 PM

Great funny campaign button or the greatest funny campaign button:
http://www.democraticstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BT23707-2.jpg

CutterMike

09-16-2008, 09:59 PM

Great funny campaign button or the greatest funny campaign button:
http://www.democraticstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BT23707-2.jpgMy GOD, I want one!

Infra-Man

09-16-2008, 10:07 PM

My GOD, I want one!

http://www.democraticstuff.com/Thereminists-for-Obama-Photo-Button-p/bt23707.htm

EDIT:
This one's just nutty
http://www.democraticstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BT23690-2.jpg

And this one is just hip to it
http://www.democraticstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/BT23694-2.jpg

Nick Soapdish

09-16-2008, 10:39 PM

Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator (http://personal-space.com/script/script.php)

My name is Shank Piston Palin

Flex Gunship.

I was half afraid that I'd get Nick Soapdish.

Black Vespa

09-16-2008, 11:41 PM

Jay Leno:

If you watched TV last night, you know that Charlie Gibson did something John McCain has never done: interviewed Sarah Palin.

Did you all see Sarah Palin's interview with Charlie Gibson? In fact, John McCain was watching it at home and at one point he turned to his wife and said, "She looks really familiar."

As you know, the Republicans are still keeping her away from the mainstream press. ... Actually, Sarah Palin is going from her interview with Gibson on ABC to one with Sean Hannity on Fox. That should be hard hitting! That's like going from hardball to tee ball, isn't it?

Sarah Palin said she is ready for Sean Hannity. In fact, she spent all day today writing out the questions he's going to ask her.

If you saw the big interview with Gibson, Sarah Palin quoted Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln said, "Let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God's side." Here's the amazing part. You know who Abraham Lincoln said that to? John McCain.

FalconX2000

09-17-2008, 12:38 AM

He did backpedal on that pretty quick, saying in an appearance a few hours later that the economy is "in crisis." Obama had already ripped him open on it, though.

McCain has been saying that 'the fundamentals of our economy are strong' for months now. It's not something he said once and reversed himself on.

It's neither here nor there, but I've decided I really enjoy listening to Palin's Alaskan accent. It's really interesting. It's like Canadian with schoolmarm mixed in.

I predict most female comedians, who tend to be good mimics, will soon be doing the accent because it's fun.

It is a pretty nice accent, isn't it.

Royal

09-17-2008, 12:46 AM

oh ya betcha ya.

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 02:17 AM

Sept. 17, 2008 | WASILLA, Alaska -- Sarah Palin has been touting herself as fiscal watchdog throughout her political career. But Palin's tenure as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, was characterized by waste, cronyism and incompetence, according to government officials in the Matanuska Valley, where she began her fairy-tale political rise.

"Executive abilities? She doesn't have any," said former Wasilla City Council member Nick Carney, who selected and groomed Palin for her first political race in 1992 and served with her after her election to the City Council.

Four years later, the ambitious Palin won the Wasilla mayor's office -- after scorching the "tax and spend mentality" of her incumbent opponent. But Carney, Palin's estranged former mentor, and others in city hall were astounded when they found out about a lavish expenditure of Palin's own after her 1996 election. According to Carney, the newly elected mayor spent more than $50,000 in city funds to redecorate her office, without the council's authorization.

(...)

Although Carney says he no longer has documentation of the expenditures, in his recollection Palin paid for the office face-lift with money from a city highway fund that was used to plow snow, grade roads and fill potholes -- essential municipal services, particularly in weather-battered Alaska.

Carney confronted Mayor Palin at a City Council hearing, and was shocked by her response.

"I braced her about it," he said. "I told her it was against the law to make such a large expenditure without the council taking a vote. She said, 'I'm the mayor, I can do whatever I want until the courts tell me I can't.'"

She poses as a fiscal watchdog, but when Palin was mayor, she grabbed city funds to give her office a pricey "bordello" makeover. (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/17/palin_mayor/)

EMeadow

09-17-2008, 03:16 AM

Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator (http://personal-space.com/script/script.php)

My name is Shank Piston Palin

Scat Dubya Palin

EMeadow

09-17-2008, 03:18 AM

rassin frassin dupe

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 03:54 AM

Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator (http://personal-space.com/script/script.php)

My name is Shank Piston Palin

Chase Rooster Palin

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 04:01 AM

But why, after snubbing Lehman, and initially denying AIG's request for help, would the Bush administration change its mind? There's a great story that isn't getting enough attention -- a clear a connect-the-dots drama that links AIG to the unregulated credit derivatives market to former Senate Banking Committe chairman Senator Phil Gramm all the way back to John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate currently fulminating all across the land about the recklessness and impropriety of using taxpayer money to bail out corporations such as.... AIG.

Here's how it works. The reason explaining why the possibility of an AIG bankruptcy is sending shudders of fear through financial markets is AIG's role as one of biggest sellers of credit default protection on the planet. So called "CDS" (credit default swaps) are a form of bankruptcy insurance for bond-holders. Worried that your subprime mortgage-backed CDO might default? No problem, AIG can help, happy to sell you an insurance policy protecting you against that default. For a nice premium, of course.

According to HousingWire, AIG is on the hook for "CDS protection on $441 billion of fixed-income assets, including $57.8 billion in subprime-mortgage related securities."

If AIG delcared bankruptcy, all the other financial players who bought insurance protecting the default of, for example, subprime-mortgage related securities, would be in an unpleasant position, stuck with having to bear the losses that are piling up in this most woeful sector of the bond market.

Too many other financial institutions would run the risk of swirling down the drain after AIG, if the big insurer declared bankruptcy. Thus Monday's stock turmoil, and Tuesday's wild swings.

Now, if you followed Barack Obama's speech on the state of the economy earlier today, you might have noticed him referring to the "complex financial instruments like some of the mortgage securities and other derivatives at the center of our current crisis." He brought up these financial products for a specific reason: he believes that the markets for new derivative products should be better regulated. Right now, for example, credit derivatives are almost completely unregulated. No one in a position of governmental responsibility is officially entrusted with ensuring that the hedge funds and investment banks and insurance companies buying and selling many trillions of dollars worth of credit derivatives own assets sufficient to handle their potential liabilities.

This is not an accident -- it is a direct result of political leadership -- on both sides of the aisle. Neither the Clinton administration nor the Bush administration was interested in regulating credit derivatives. As Salon reported more than six years ago, one Clinton appointee at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), Brooksley Born, did attempt to bring derivatives trading under the CFTC's regulatory ambit, but she was shot down by a powerhouse of government officials, including Fed Chair Alan Greenspan, SEC head Arthur Levitt, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and Senate Banking Committee chairman Phil Gramm.

A bipartisan effort, no doubt about it. But nobody made it more of a sacred mission to ensure that credit derivatives were kept unregulated than Senator Gramm, long recognized as the key force in the passage of the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000, which specifically exempted new derivative markets from government oversight. As Mother Jones' David Corn reported earlier this year:

The act, he declared, would ensure that neither the SEC nor the Commodity Futures Trading Commission got into the business of regulating newfangled financial products called swaps -- and would thus "protect financial institutions from overregulation" and "position our financial services industries to be world leaders into the new century."

History will judge whether Gramm was successful in his mission. But in the meantime, let's not forget who chaired John McCain's presidential run in 2000, and who, until he made his tactless comment about Americans being "a nation of whiners" was considered a top economic advisor to the Senator from Arizona.

Former Senator Phil Gramm.

So there you go. And if AIG has to be bailed out with taxpayer money, now you know who should get a significant part of the blame: John McCain's good buddy, and economic mentor, Phil Gramm.

http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2008/09/16/mccain_and_aig/index.html

KevinTBrown

09-17-2008, 04:44 AM

Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator (http://personal-space.com/script/script.php)

My name is Shank Piston Palin

Mine's Cuppa Invader Palin. :eek:

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 05:16 AM

McCain's Very Bad Day (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/16/mccains-very-bad-day_n_126854.html)

McCain's campaign has been all over the place today - from the economy, to his criticism of morning show anchors, to whether he invented the BlackBerry and on Sarah Palin's inability to run a company. And to make matters worse, conservative pundits are turning against McCain.

Arrogantcur

09-17-2008, 06:29 AM

Sarah Palin Baby Name Generator (http://personal-space.com/script/script.php)

My name is Shank Piston Palin

ROFL, I think this generator gave me either the best or the gayest sounding name, or possibly both:

"Flack Gobbler Palin"!!!

LtMarvel

09-17-2008, 06:30 AM

Mine's Cuppa Invader Palin. :eek:

Rock Crane Palin

Michael P

09-17-2008, 06:42 AM

"Shoulder Frontier Palin."

All I can say is, thank God for adoption.

Charles RB

09-17-2008, 06:47 AM

Russell Howard said Track must be glad his mother likes running and not badminton, because "could you imagine going to school with the name Shuttlecock?".

TCJohnson

09-17-2008, 07:17 AM

Strangle Thicket Palin

4thHorseman

09-17-2008, 07:22 AM

Bang Walmart Palin

EdContradictory

09-17-2008, 07:28 AM

Torpedo Vindicator Palin

KevinTBrown

09-17-2008, 07:28 AM

Bang Walmart Palin

That sounds like a bad porno movie.......

KevinTBrown

09-17-2008, 07:35 AM

Back to the election.

Six women's groups back Obama. (http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080916/ap_on_el_pr/obama_womens_groups)

Lester C.

09-17-2008, 07:46 AM

FalconX2000

09-17-2008, 08:04 AM

I am ashamed to admit it, but a part of me is happy that Wallstreet had a meltdown because people are going to blame Bush and by extention Republicans and by extention John McCain. I know that's horrible of me to feel that way but I can't help it.

It's just how people heavily involved in a subject will tend to see events through the lends of how it affects that subject. It's natural, including its insensitiveness and skew.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/obma_mccain_pivot_to_economy_i.html

I kinda like Obama's 2 minute ad on the economy. It's expensive, but anyone watching it is gonna be drawn in like a living room conversation. The language and tone is penetrating and empathatic yet manages to lay out a plan as comprehensively as is possible in such a timeframe. It makes the McCain ad in the same article look downright shallow and ignorant in comparison.

FalconX2000

09-17-2008, 09:10 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlZt5iN96iM

This is the best I've ever seen Obama speak on the economy. He doesn't come across as wonkish or dry. The connection with the audience is forged and the heart strings are played.

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 10:05 AM

The poll of polls at RCP now has the EC at Obama/Biden 286 and McCain/Palin 252 after Virginia swings back to Obama. And several national polls have Obama/Biden back with a slim lead. The momentum is clearly with the Democrats.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/election_2008/electoral_count_no_toss_ups.html

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 10:41 AM

Dow Jones is in free fall AGAIN after rumors about trouble for Morgan Stanley came out...

FalconX2000

09-17-2008, 10:42 AM

Royal

09-17-2008, 10:42 AM

Jim Cramer: "Why is sports gambling more reliable then the stock market!?" (http://gawker.com/5050387/jim-cramer-whos-crazy-now)

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 10:53 AM

Hmm, if Obama carries the states Kerry won plus Colorado and Virginia, he's set even if he loses Ohio and Florida.

Nevada and New Mexico are also very much still in play.

McCain only holds a 6 point lead in his own home state...

TCJohnson

09-17-2008, 11:04 AM

I just found one of the scariest sites ever:

Jews Against Obama. (http://www.jtf.org/) Holy crap! You should see their issues page....makes me sick.

Paul McEnery

09-17-2008, 11:40 AM

"Shoulder Frontier Palin."

All I can say is, thank God for adoption.

Ah, thank heaven for small Mercy, eh?

Typo Lad

09-17-2008, 11:51 AM

I just found one of the scariest sites ever:

Jews Against Obama. (http://www.jtf.org/) Holy crap! You should see their issues page....makes me sick.
The JTF is an honest-to-G-d terrorist "organization". I put organization in quotes because it's run by one guy who tried to bomb some embassies a few years back, got arrested, and continues to write about his glorious struggle. I know Kach-nicks who think this guy is extreme.

Not only is he a nut, but odds are that accessing his site will get you put on a list somewhere. Seriously.

Edit: And I also want to note that the only "Jews Against Obama" he speaks for is himself. The man is a psycho loner.

TCJohnson

09-17-2008, 11:59 AM

Is the guy you are talking about named David Levine?

I found this place because a friend of mine joined his group on Facebook...which is right now about 1,000 strong.

Typo Lad

09-17-2008, 11:59 AM

Here's the JTF on wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Task_Force)

All the people in the spokesman field? Known aliases of Vancier.

Typo Lad

09-17-2008, 12:00 PM

Is the guy you are talking about named David Levine?

I found this place because a friend of mine joined his group on Facebook...which is right now about 1,000 strong.
You're making me want to cut myself.

To be fair, some people will join any group on Facebook, without realizing how hateful it may be. One friend of mine keeps sending me invitations to join Jewish Supremacists groups, becuase hey, they're Jewish groups... we should support them.

shudder

TCJohnson

09-17-2008, 12:05 PM

You're making me want to cut myself.

To be fair, some people will join any group on Facebook, without realizing how hateful it may be. One friend of mine keeps sending me invitations to join Jewish Supremacists groups, becuase hey, they're Jewish groups... we should support them.

shudder

I apologize. I was just shocked to see my friend join this group....I am hoping that it is only Obama she is against and not the entire black race.

Not that I ever thought that this site would represent even a significat fraction of the jewish population, but glad to know it is mostly one guy and not a group.

Typo Lad

09-17-2008, 12:08 PM

Honestly, you should contact her. Ask her if she is aware that she is signed up as a member of a registered terrorist organization. The JTF is on US, Israeli, and many EU watch lists. The founder and sole real member mudered 20 people in an act of terror.

Royal

09-17-2008, 12:31 PM

Anon got into Palin's personal account. (http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-emails)

Charles RB

09-17-2008, 12:50 PM

And now, the account has been deleted! Which is, as we said, maybe destruction of evidence?

Oh ho ho HO! :biggrin:

Paul McEnery

09-17-2008, 01:29 PM

Oh ho ho HO! :biggrin:

And reading through what Gawker posted, we unsurprisingly find her running a Trotskyite-style campaign on behalf of anti-abortion activists.

the4thpip

09-17-2008, 01:41 PM

Maybe she should have chosen another password than "lipstick.

Royal

09-17-2008, 02:03 PM

Somewhere in Anon HQ, CAEK is being had.

FalconX2000

09-17-2008, 02:31 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26757266#26728559

Rachel Maddow's show is becoming of superior quality with each episode.:biggrin:

KevinTBrown

09-17-2008, 07:00 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26757266#26728559

Rachel Maddow's show is becoming of superior quality with each episode.:biggrin:

Yeah, Maddow is definitely growing on me.... Even the proclivity of her talking out the side of her mouth rarely bothers me any more.

KevinTBrown

09-17-2008, 07:11 PM

And Gallup has Obama reclaiming his lead in the polls, 47%-45%:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/110446/Gallup-Daily-Obama-47-McCain-45.aspx

Here's a "list" of current polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

Arrogantcur

09-17-2008, 07:11 PM

I bring shocking news (well, it should be shocking for Novaya anyway and come as no surprise to almost everybody else)...

Sarah Palin isn't exactly a crusader for LGBT rights!!! :eek:

After "Fantomex" at mightygodking.com said so...

But for people who are of the opinion that a fundamentalist christian who could barely get a bachelors in journalism and believes that homosexuals shouldn’t have the right to visit their dying partners (it’s part of the marriage benefits she fought TIRELESSLY against), and believe that RAPE victims should have to PAY for their rape kits is worse than a senator with “questionable experience” (copyright, FoxNews) of the party that hasn’t had the opportunity to screw us up, it’s no longer a question of left or right, it’s a question of do I see the horror that’s rapidly approaching or not.

...I asked for specifics that I could reference here. Fantomex replied...

No problem, here’s a couple of links that might help (hopefully MGK doesn’t mind if i post links):
i was wrong about one thing; the visitation right is actually part of the standard spousal benefits that married couples get (she wants gays to have NONE of these), not the health benefits (i *think* they are separate things, so while she still vehemently opposed it, the manner in which i presented the information was unintentionally inaccurate, i apologize.

Unfortunately finding clear documentation that spousal visitation is one of the (surprisingly many) benefits of marriage is proving something of a pain, so I’m afraid I have to cite wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_Un ited_States). the edit history -now anyway- says that it was last edited on the 26th of July, proving that i have not hastily changed the article to support my point.

http://ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm#Civil_Rights
Palin’s views on the topic are, frankly, disgusting and backwards. The only *possible* point in favor of her NOT being a bigot is that she complied -while verbally noting that it was against her will- with a ruling by Alaska’s Supreme Court to offer benefits (http://dwb.adn.com/front/story/8508726p-8401181c.html). I think that it would’ve been a crime if she hadn’t complied with a Supreme Court ruling (i am by no means certain) so the fact that she ‘made’ a hobson’s choice isn’t exactly something worthy of applause.

http://ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm#Civil_Rights
the only thing i can think of that might lead your friend to believe that (other than maybe watching fox news; seriously, that stuff is mind poison) is that obama IS technically against gay “marriage”, but this seems to be in name only as he is FOR (unlike Palin) civil unions and marriage benefits for homosexual couples. so his opposition to gay “marriage” (and this is just my interpretation) seems to be only a political choice wording of his position that doesn’t in actuality differ from being pro-gay marriage THAT much so as not to alienate the 55% (http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm) of americans that are against gay marriage while in actuality not giving any ground on the issue.

So please, no more talk about how Palin is so much more gay friendly than Obama, a'ight? :rolleyes:

Arrogantcur

09-17-2008, 07:27 PM

I am ashamed to admit it, but a part of me is happy that Wallstreet had a meltdown because people are going to blame Bush and by extention Republicans and by extention John McCain. I know that's horrible of me to feel that way but I can't help it.

I guess that's the nature of the beast. In order for people to decide not to vote Republican, Republicans have got to screw up badly enough.

While I don't believe you should feel good about it, Lester, it could be worse. I mean, it's still better than hoping for a terrorist attack because that would supposedly help McCain's chances, which some people actually do.

You're making me want to cut myself.

To be fair, some people will join any group on Facebook, without realizing how hateful it may be. One friend of mine keeps sending me invitations to join Jewish Supremacists groups, becuase hey, they're Jewish groups... we should support them.

shudder

That really is pretty fucked up. :eek:

Kevinroc

09-17-2008, 07:57 PM

New York Times article.

Poll Finds McCain, in Tight Race, Is Still Tied to Bush

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/us/politics/18poll.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

kingdom2000

09-17-2008, 08:15 PM

So please, no more talk about how Palin is so much more gay friendly than Obama, a'ight? :rolleyes:

I would love to know where that rumor came from. I have yet to hear about a fundamentalist christian who is pro-gay anything. Part of the reason she was chosen was so the "base" would finally be at peace with the McCain ticket (which worked) and also to try and grab those voters trying to say they played a part in history. If she was ok with gays the base would have had a fit at the choice instead of embracing her.

But the Novoya has proven that the only thing that matters is the woman part. The rest is just noise that doesn't mean anything. What I am curious is the percentage that think that way. Is it a statistically inconsequential or significant enough number to make you depressed about the future youth that will be taught by these types of morons.

FalconX2000

09-18-2008, 02:17 AM

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/17/obama_zings_mccains_old_boy_ne.html

He held two events today, one in Elko, Nev., another here. He chided Sen. John McCain some at both. "Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he's president, he'll take on the, quote, old boys' network in Washington," Obama said in Elko.

"I am not making this up. This is someone who's been in Congress for 26 years - who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign - and now he's the one who will take on the old boy network?" Obama continued. "The old boy network? In the McCain campaign, that's called a staff meeting."

Royal

09-18-2008, 03:56 AM

Proxy Owner: This Isn't Anonymous. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/18/palin_email_investigation/)

The 25-year-old webmaster and entrepreneur is the operator of Ctunnel.com, the browsing proxy service used by the group that hacked into the vice presidential candidate's personal email account and exposed its contents to the world. While he has yet to examine his logs, he says there's a good chance they will lead to those responsible, thanks to some carelessness on their part.

"Usually, this sort of thing would be hard to track down because it's Yahoo email, and a lot of people use my service for that," he told El Reg in a phone interview. "Since they were dumb enough to post a full screenshot that showed most of the [Ctunnel.com] URL, I should be able to find that in my log."

Ramuglia got into the proxy business a few years ago, after schools began blocking access to an online game site he used to co-own. Pretty soon, people began using the proxy service to access YouTube, Gmail, MySpace, and dozens of other sites that are routinely blocked by IT departments.

To prevent abuse of the service - such as the occasional bomb threat or other illegal act that's been known to happen - Ramuglia logs each user's IP address, along with the time and web destination. That often isn't enough to track down people who access extremely popular websites. But in this case, the perpetrators included a whole string of random-looking characters when posting screenshots of Palin's hacked account. That will probably be enough for him to pinpoint the proverbial needle in the haystack.