2008 U.S. Presidential Election Mega thread [Archive] - Page 26

PatrickG

09-08-2008, 08:25 AM

It's funny because I think I can define small town values better than any of these guys, both in terms of pros and cons:

My take on REAL Small Town Values:

- Insular: People tend to view their community as the beginning and end of their world.

- Self-sufficient: The idea of a community with its own farms, its own electricity, its own bottling plant, its own market, its own resources. (Breaking oil dependency is definitely a small town value.)

- Tradition-driven: How things are is exactly how things should remain. Even if it's broke, don't fix it.

- Hospitable: A value associated with small towns if not universally practiced. People treat strangers with respect and dignity.

- Institution-driven: Schools, churches and clubs are the primary source of activity.

- Anti-Corporate: Most businesses are locally owned. People prefer to support local businesses. People actively try to drive non-local businesses away if given the option.

- Enthusiasm: People tend to have institutions they rally around and like picking good natured arguments on behalf of, like the local sports team, the jazz band, etc.

- Nepotistic: Who you know and how you know them is the first, last and best qualification. The community tends to have a distaste for external issues or high stakes decision making, which actually allows this to work since success comes second to getting along with people. Money is secondary to harmony and qualifications are secondary to being thought of as pleasant.

- Poor but not desiring of great wealth.

- Generally, an enthusiasm for and respect of animals and the natural environment, however a tendency to regard those things as a resource both to be reaped and maintained. You don't hunt deer to extinction but only because you want more to grind into sausage next year.

- A distaste for and disdain for higher education, frequently, or a belief that higher education is simply a means to better provide for one's obligations. Pragmatism. A belief that visceral experience is the only teacher.

- Theocracy.

- Solidarity.

- Isolationism.

- Generosity.

Stressfactor

09-08-2008, 09:19 AM

Keep in mind, Palin hasn't gone off-script yet and hasn't sat down for any unscripted interviews or debates.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she will produce an epic 'open mouth, insert foot' moment yet that will get all over the media and internet.

Still, McCain is reportedly happy that is VP pick is more popular than he is... does that seem wrong to anybody else or is it just me? I mean, really YOU'RE the one running for the highest office in the land, YOU'RE the one who's going to be in charge if elected and yet people aren't voting for YOU they're voting for your VP.

Buzz Dixon

09-08-2008, 09:37 AM

When Republicans bungled the convention as much as they did this election, to have McCain even be even tied with Obama makes me very sad for the USA. :frown:Remember, Gallup, Rasmussen, et al:

1) Poll only currently registered voters

2) Poll only people who have voted in the last two presidential elections (minimum age 26)

3) Poll only on land lines, not cell phones

This sort of polling skews for older, whiter voters. Newly registered voters have been leaning towards Obama, there are huge numbers of younger voters (something no other politicians has ever been able to deliver) mostly leaning for Obama, and large numbers of people under 35 have no land line phone, only a cell.

Charles RB

09-08-2008, 09:47 AM

Don't forget the power of PBS

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/mccain_speech_m.html

Wasn't it pointed out earlier that McCain's speech was on at the same time millions of people were turning on the TV to see if there were any reports or warnings about the hurricane? That'd give an artificially high number.

more here:
http://www.salon.com/env/feature/2008/09/08/sarah_palin_wolves/

That's demented.

Corrina

09-08-2008, 09:51 AM

Keep in mind, Palin hasn't gone off-script yet and hasn't sat down for any unscripted interviews or debates.

One thing I noticed about Sarah Palin.

1. She freakin' LOVES the spotlight. No one is going to pry her out of it with anything less than a tank. Ever.

2. She is absolutely convinced that she's right. This is a good thing if you're General Patton and have to crush the opposition. It is not so good when you have to play nice with others. Or if your decisions, well, suck. (Guiliani has the same problem, though with more governing competence. We should have sent him off to Iraq and let him play dictator. He would have loved it and been good at it.)

Given that, I expect that she will make a blunder because she can't stay out of the spotlight and she convinced of her worldview to the point where she can't see the worldview of others.

KevinTBrown

09-08-2008, 09:56 AM

One thing I noticed about Sarah Palin.

1. She freakin' LOVES the spotlight. No one is going to pry her out of it with anything less than a tank. Ever.

2. She is absolutely convinced that she's right. This is a good thing if you're General Patton and have to crush the opposition. It is not so good when you have to play nice with others. Or if your decisions, well, suck. (Guiliani has the same problem, though with more governing competence. We should have sent him off to Iraq and let him play dictator. He would have loved it and been good at it.)

Given that, I expect that she will make a blunder because she can't stay out of the spotlight and she convinced of her worldview to the point where she can't see the worldview of others.

I am EAGERLY awaiting the VP debate. Biden is cool, calm, and collected in debates; Palin has never been in such a situation. Though I'm fairly certain they're giving her a crash course of what to do.

There's going to be a huge misstep for either McCain or Palin. Both are very passionate and determined to be right at all costs. Both also have anger issues. You push the right buttons, there's going to be an explosion.....

Charles RB

09-08-2008, 09:58 AM

2. She is absolutely convinced that she's right. This is a good thing if you're General Patton and have to crush the opposition. It is not so good when you have to play nice with others.

Relations with Iran and Russia are going to be really fun if McCain gets in, eh?

And I include British relations too because for at least until Brown is gone, we'll be following your lead still. God, that's a fucking horrible thought - Brown teamed up with McCain and Palin, the Axis of Incompetence.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 10:01 AM

On a lighter note, Jon Stewart and the best f@#$in news team investigate what small town values are all about:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184114&title=the-best-f#king-news-team-ever

Hehe... Daily Showned.

Small town values = A blatant emotional appeal to a vague nostalgia and to regional, demographic, or geographic pride. When used in politics, it's also a code word for "we're not like those atheist fags in big cities who think they know better." It's more loaded language that fuels the divides in the country, but people gobble it up like it's a bottomless bucket of hen feed.

Grazzt

09-08-2008, 10:14 AM

There's going to be a huge misstep for either McCain or Palin. Both are very passionate and determined to be right at all costs. Both also have anger issues. You push the right buttons, there's going to be an explosion.....

On the other hand, wouldn't the proper kind of explosion appeal to certain types of voters? The Dems will have to be careful what they do.

Charles RB

09-08-2008, 10:25 AM

Small town values = A blatant emotional appeal to a vague nostalgia and to regional, demographic, or geographic pride. When used in politics, it's also a code word for "we're not like those atheist fags in big cities who think they know better."

See also "traditional values", "the good old days", "go back where they came from!".

KevinTBrown

09-08-2008, 10:31 AM

On the other hand, wouldn't the proper kind of explosion appeal to certain types of voters? The Dems will have to be careful what they do.

If Obama acts the exact same way as he did with Clinton during their debates (correcting the mistakes, etc.), McCain will blow. McCain loathes being proven wrong and he absolutely hates it when people correct him/interrupt him.

section 8

09-08-2008, 10:45 AM

I'm sorry, but you didn't make it clear that you were joking. You said that you didn't think lawbreakers deserved compassion, and that's why there were no security cameras in prison showers. And this stuff doesn't read like one long joke or series of jokes:

In my experience people don't joke around one moment and then suddenly shift gears and get pissed off and start talking seriously about whatever's pissed them off. It's either one or the other. Since you were dead serious in one part of your post, it seemed logical to assume that the whole thing was dead serious.

But apparently you were in a joking mood when you wrote that first sentence and then suddenly you had a big mood swing and found yourself upset about illegal aliens, and then you were serious. Okay....

Finally, I said I'd only wish that on you if you wished it on other people. Since you don't, I don't.

Since we are getting technical here, somone else said compassion doesn't end when the law is broken, that's when i brought up the showers (was making a joke about the system, and how things are, not saying how they should be )

As for "Logic" and :Moodswings"
FIrst i AM bipolar
second, fuck logic! i rarely have use for it (ask anyone)

(one thing i do love about these boards is when you have to stop and explain to someone that you are joking)

Corrina

09-08-2008, 10:49 AM

On the other hand, wouldn't the proper kind of explosion appeal to certain types of voters? The Dems will have to be careful what they do.

Do what they've done. Showcase Obama's own struggle to come from nowhere to somewhere. That's exactly what they'll like--plus, they can feel good about it 'hey, if he can do it, with all that's stacked against him, that proves America is an awesome place.'

And I'm thinking they picked on 'community organizer' as code somehow for 'inner city black neighborhood organizer.' Like 'cosmopolitan' equals gay. (Or a really sweet drink--shut up those of you with dirty minds...)

Bergman

09-08-2008, 10:50 AM

One thing I noticed about Sarah Palin.

1. She freakin' LOVES the spotlight. No one is going to pry her out of it with anything less than a tank. Ever.

Unless someone asks her any questions (http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/how-americablog-reader-asked-john-and.html).

section 8

09-08-2008, 10:52 AM

I am EAGERLY awaiting the VP debate. Biden is cool, calm, and collected in debates; Palin has never been in such a situation. Though I'm fairly certain they're giving her a crash course of what to do.

There's going to be a huge misstep for either McCain or Palin. Both are very passionate and determined to be right at all costs. Both also have anger issues. You push the right buttons, there's going to be an explosion.....

It'll be like watching a pitbull fight a kitten.

Novaya Havoc

09-08-2008, 11:08 AM

Nobody can tell me that Palin caused a 17 point shift!

Sho nuff she did! I gots me a fever, and the only prescription is more PALIN!

Novaya Havoc

09-08-2008, 11:15 AM

I am EAGERLY awaiting the VP debate. Biden is cool, calm, and collected in debates; Palin has never been in such a situation.

O RLY?

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=195195-1

And this is just the gubernatorial debate -- it isn't even the primary debate when she's taking the Republican boys to task.

Nope. Never been in that situation. McCain just picked her out of a trailer park. He had to lure her to Dayton by promising her a Bible and a Mooseburger.

Feh!

FalconX2000

09-08-2008, 11:28 AM

Remember, Gallup, Rasmussen, et al:

1) Poll only currently registered voters

2) Poll only people who have voted in the last two presidential elections (minimum age 26)

3) Poll only on land lines, not cell phones

This sort of polling skews for older, whiter voters. Newly registered voters have been leaning towards Obama, there are huge numbers of younger voters (something no other politicians has ever been able to deliver) mostly leaning for Obama, and large numbers of people under 35 have no land line phone, only a cell.

I know. But these are the same demographics that have been around for years. The same people who voted Bush in twice are willing to vote for a guy who is identical to or further right of Bush on every single issue major issue save energy (for which measures he has no way to pay). And they're still this vulnerable after 8 years of the current administration and the rather mediocre and increasingly Rove style campaign McCain has been running.

One thing I noticed about Sarah Palin.

1. She freakin' LOVES the spotlight. No one is going to pry her out of it with anything less than a tank. Ever.

DUKAKIS! DUKAKIS! DUKAKIS!

I can't decide whether I'd rather see Palin riding in a Bradley with an oversized helmet, or Dukakis redeem himself by crashing her stump speech, M1 Abrams and all.

Charles RB

09-08-2008, 11:29 AM

McCain just picked her out of a trailer park.

It's already known he picked her without proper vetting.

Anyway, why do you think someone with a record of corruption, incompetence, tyrannical managing, lying, and environmental buggeration is a "winning ticket", to say nothing of allegations of vinditiveness and her outright using her family for political gain?

KevinTBrown

09-08-2008, 11:33 AM

FalconX2000

09-08-2008, 11:33 AM

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/08/cheney-mccain-palin-administration-will-be-unlike-any-other/

Dick Cheney thinks Palin is superb! We're doomed!:eek:

....mana from heaven.

Michael P

09-08-2008, 11:43 AM

It's already known he picked her without proper vetting.

Anyway, why do you think someone with a record of corruption, incompetence, tyrannical managing, lying, and environmental buggeration is a "winning ticket", to say nothing of allegations of vinditiveness and her outright using her family for political gain?

She has a uterus.

Buzz Dixon

09-08-2008, 11:46 AM

Terry Moore on preparing for a debate:
http://www.strangersinparadise.com/files/BlogPicsII/DebateSpeech.jpg

king mob

09-08-2008, 11:55 AM

And I include British relations too because for at least until Brown is gone, we'll be following your lead still. God, that's a fucking horrible thought - Brown teamed up with McCain and Palin, the Axis of Incompetence.

If/when Cameron becomes PM the 'special relationship' will remain as there's no way Cameron will have the balls to say piss off to the States.

king mob

09-08-2008, 12:10 PM

Sho nuff she did! I gots me a fever, and the only prescription is more PALIN!

Fuck it, I'm fucked off with this pish.

I can work out why every American in this thread is voting for whoever, but even Samurai makes sense compared to your insane ranting. You're gay & you're voting for people that fucking hate you & your lifestyle, that's just madness no matter how much you dress it up with your hysterical 'diva' nonsense.

So what's the point of you supporting the Republicans if your life is potentially going to be made worse by it? It can't just be because you threw a fanboy fit over Hillary not getting the Democratic nomination so one has to assume that you're:

A/ An idiot

B/ A troll

C/ A Republican plant

D/ All of the above

I hate putting people on ignore, I don't even have Bri or Samurai on ignore as even their hateful views are an insight into American politics, but you're on the verge of going on ignore as you don't provide anything to the conversation beyond the constant drone of idiocy your posts contain.

king mob

09-08-2008, 12:25 PM

Russell Brand gets political at last night's MTV Awards.

"Some people, I think they're called racists, say America is not ready for a black president.

"But I know America to be a forward thinking country because otherwise why would you have let that retard and cowboy fella be president for eight years?

"We were very impressed. We thought it was nice of you to let him have a go, because, in England, he wouldn't be trusted with a pair of scissors."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article4703539.ece

Was it really as big a deal as that article suggests it was?

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 12:29 PM

Russell Brand gets political at last night's MTV Awards.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article4703539.ece

Was it really as big a deal as that article suggests it was?

I am highly amused and will resort to youtube this evening.

Tetsuo_man

09-08-2008, 12:33 PM

Looks like Palin's interview seems to already be a farce.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/214508.php

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 12:37 PM

I think Novaya Havoc has at least depicted why contemporary politics is in the toilet: Notice that there is no more discussion of issues, of policy, of the potential of a shared American dream. It's no longer about our futures, but merely the team, and always how to root for one's team at the expense of not just the other team but fans of the other team.

A friend of mine said the reason he never wanted to follow politics is because he saw too many unreasonable people use their beliefs to justify their pettiness, their childishness, their hatreds, and their baser impulses. Short of some wide-ranging apocalypse which would would reveal the latent, amoral cannibal beast in us all, modern politics is what can best tease out the worst in mankind.

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 12:40 PM

n:

On a lighter note, Jon Stewart and the best f@#$in news team investigate what small town values are all about:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184114&title=the-best-f#king-news-team-ever

You just know that's Briareos with the cowboy hat and the gay voice! Yee-haw! :tongue:

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 12:51 PM

Charles RB

09-08-2008, 01:02 PM

She has a uterus.

Then under the Arnie precedent, I nominate Myra Hindley for Vice-Prez.

Charles RB

09-08-2008, 01:08 PM

If/when Cameron becomes PM the 'special relationship' will remain as there's no way Cameron will have the balls to say piss off to the States.

This is true, but there's a chance someone who isn't Cameron or Brown will get in (a different Labour bod, even slimmer the Lib Dems) or Cameron might actually find some balls/have no choice due to domestic pressure to stop hanging around McCain.

But yeah, the main hope for the UK is Obama gets in and we're tied to a less aggressive American foreign policy.

I think Novaya Havoc has at least depicted why contemporary politics is in the toilet: Notice that there is no more discussion of issues, of policy, of the potential of a shared American dream. It's no longer about our futures, but merely the team, and always how to root for one's team at the expense of not just the other team but fans of the other team.

Obama's speeches and campaign rhetoric focus on policies, Hope for America and all that...

What happens? He gets mocked for it and policies ignored.

Bet he's wishing he'd not bothered now.

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 01:16 PM

In a corner booth, Biden sat down and, after a moment's conversation, planted a kiss on the forehead of Carolyn Bauer, age 89. Bauer explained afterward it wasn't such a friendly encounter.

"I told him I'm not going to vote for him," Bauer said. "Anybody who runs with a guy with a name like that is not going to get my vote. It'd be disgusting to get a man named Barack Obama as president of the United States. No way. I mean it... I'm going to vote for McCain and the lady."

"[Obama's] a Muslim," Bauer added. "He pretends to be a Christian, and he isn't, he's a Muslim."

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080906_Biden_gets_mixed_welcome_in_Northeast.htm l

:frown:

Michael P

09-08-2008, 01:18 PM

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080906_Biden_gets_mixed_welcome_in_Northeast.htm l

:frown:

Well, that was rather Christlike of him.

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 01:19 PM

Then under the Arnie precedent, I nominate Myra Hindley for Vice-Prez.

Hmm.

I think her reproductive rights strategy is a little too proactive.

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 01:19 PM

Well, that was rather Christlike of him.

You know, after all the effort Obama put into keeping his Christian pastor Wright in the news... :frown:

kingdom2000

09-08-2008, 01:29 PM

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080906_Biden_gets_mixed_welcome_in_Northeast.htm l

:frown:

I suspect that level of ignorance among the populace is quite high. Even worse, much like that old fart, they are usually very very proud of their stupidity.

I bet everyday the only time the repub. leadership prays to god is to say "please make this generation as stupid and ignorant as those that came before" and then goes about helping that by gutting education.

As for Biden, I am thinking the head kiss was an incredibily restrained response to those kind of statements. It was probably either kiss her and forgive her very non-christian behavior (but then I have never met a christian that wasn't of the do as I say, not as I do type) or hit her.

Kevinroc

09-08-2008, 01:33 PM

A Republican 527 group is going to go on the theme of "fuck hope."

http://www.nysun.com/blogs/latest-politics/2008/09/new-527-group-plans-attack-obama-themes.html

kingdom2000

09-08-2008, 01:39 PM

Charles RB

09-08-2008, 01:45 PM

http://www.nysun.com/blogs/latest-politics/2008/09/new-527-group-plans-attack-obama-themes.html

over a montage that includes a plane crashing into the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001 and video of an American flag fluttering at the gutted site after the terrorist attacks.

WHAT is it with the Republicans and using September 11 in videos?

This here, this is why I compared the Republicans campaign to the BNP and Mob agreed. That vid is almost exactly the same as the "Maybe It's Time To Listen To The BNP" posters with the July 7 bombed-bus photos on them.

kingdom2000

09-08-2008, 01:53 PM

WHAT is it with the Republicans and using September 11 in videos?

This here, this is why I compared the Republicans campaign to the BNP and Mob agreed. That vid is almost exactly the same as the "Maybe It's Time To Listen To The BNP" posters with the July 7 bombed-bus photos on them.

9/11 reminds people to be afriad. Repubs claims to be the only one to stop the fear. So if your afraid, vote Repub. That is why. If you look at the least, oh 100 years of the repub party, can you point out a time in which fear was not central to their platform?

LtMarvel

09-08-2008, 01:56 PM

Sho nuff she did! I gots me a fever, and the only prescription is more PALIN!
Today's USAToday Does Sarah Palin as the running mate make you more or less likely to vote for John McCain? 29% More likely, 21% Less likely

Joe Biden's effect: more 14%, less 7%

Is Palin qualified to serve as President?
48% yes, 44% no

Is Biden?

57% yes, 18% no

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 01:58 PM

Today's USAToday

Joe Biden's effect: more 14%, less 7%

Is Palin qualified to serve as President?
48% yes, 44% no

Good god.

I'm going to be charitable and assume that 18% of Americans are just underinformed.

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 02:19 PM

Keep in mind, Palin hasn't gone off-script yet and hasn't sat down for any unscripted interviews or debates.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she will produce an epic 'open mouth, insert foot' moment yet that will get all over the media and internet.

.

Oops:

Gov. Sarah Palin made her first potentially major gaffe during her time on the national scene while discussing the developments of the perilous housing market this past weekend.

Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."

Economists and analysts pounced on the misstatement, which came before the government had spent funds baling the two entities out, saying it demonstrated a lack of understanding about one of the key economic issues likely to face the next administration.

"You would like to think that someone who is going to be vice president and conceivable president would know what Fannie and Freddie do," said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research. "These are huge institutions and they are absolutely central to our country's mortgage debt. To not have a clue what they do doesn't speak well for her, I'd say."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/08/palin-makes-her-first-gaf_n_124792.html

Spike-X

09-08-2008, 02:38 PM

In a corner booth, Biden sat down and, after a moment's conversation, planted a kiss on the forehead of Carolyn Bauer, age 89. Bauer explained afterward it wasn't such a friendly encounter.

"I told him I'm not going to vote for him," Bauer said. "Anybody who runs with a guy with a name like that is not going to get my vote. It'd be disgusting to get a man named Barack Obama as president of the United States. No way. I mean it... I'm going to vote for McCain and the lady."

"[Obama's] a Muslim," Bauer added. "He pretends to be a Christian, and he isn't, he's a Muslim."

The great thing about democracy is that everybody gets a vote.

The bad thing about democracy is that that includes people like this.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BobGQTMhxf8

He had to be corrected by the interviewer.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

Eliseu Gouveia

09-08-2008, 03:18 PM

Am I the only one who´s tired to death of this slandering crap?

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 03:19 PM

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

DrewEdwards

09-08-2008, 03:20 PM

Am I the only one who´s tired to death of this crap?

No.

You'd think the legitimate problems Obama due to his CHRISTIAN pastor would have put an end to all of this.

Arrogantcur

09-08-2008, 03:20 PM

O RLY?

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=195195-1

And this is just the gubernatorial debate -- it isn't even the primary debate when she's taking the Republican boys to task.

Nope. Never been in that situation. McCain just picked her out of a trailer park. He had to lure her to Dayton by promising her a Bible and a Mooseburger.

Feh!

Oy.

Listen Novaya, if you're that bitter about Hillary losing but still believe in everything she believes in and respect her, you know what you should do?

On November 4th you should pick up a ballot and write in the name "Hillary Clinton", and cast it.

If all of you PUMAs (if you aren't officially a PUMA you are certainly acting like one) did that instead of supporting McCain, and there were millions and millions of ballots with Hillary's name on them, not only would you be sending a strong message but you wouldn't be abandoning your principles.

This assumes, of course, that you believe rape victims should not be forced to go through with their pregnancies and give birth to the young of the men who victimized them. You can't possibly agree with Palin about that, right? Not after supporting Hillary.

I'll tell you right now: Sarah Palin agrees with Hillary Clinton on almost NOTHING, and it's ridiculous that I even have to point this out to you. Probably the only thing they agree on is that it'd be nice to see a woman in the White House sooner or later. So hey, if you want to help turn the country into a place Hillary won't like by electing a guy who's going to change it in ways that Hillary won't like...hey, it's a free country (for now at least). Do what you want, even if it is absolutely insane and childish.

Personally, I just wouldn't vote at all, or I'd do that write-in thing. I've even said as much before, something to the effect of "Obama is losing my respect by moving toward the center, and if he loses too much of my respect I won't cast a vote for either candidate."

(I will be voting btw, via absentee ballot, due to dual citizenship. As of today, I still intend to vote for Obama.)

TCJohnson

09-08-2008, 03:20 PM

Hmmm....how is calling Obama a muslim slander?

Kevinroc

09-08-2008, 03:23 PM

Hmmm....how is calling Obama a muslim slander?

It's a way to be racist. They can call him a "muslim" instead of calling him a (well, you know)...

These are the people that are trying to turn the term "community organizer" into something negative.

Sean Walsh

09-08-2008, 03:24 PM

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

So?

I'm friends with Satan. That doesn't make me--

Wait a tic..........

:eek:

Never mind.

Eliseu Gouveia

09-08-2008, 03:24 PM

Hmmm....how is calling Obama a muslim slander?

It isn´t.

.
.
.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 03:25 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BobGQTMhxf8

He had to be corrected by the interviewer.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

More like things to make you go "Oh, just shut the fuck up you partisan mongrel fuckwit mook."

He misspoke. That is all.

It's called Snopes, look into it: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

It's incredible that with all of the information on the internet, people are still proud to be so ignorant.

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 03:26 PM

It's incredible that with all of the information on the internet, people are still proud to be so ignorant.

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:27 PM

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

All everyone needs to know here is that you are a congential liar.

The truth is I was a friend (singular) of RO, but as many here can testify, I have ceased to be a friend of RO for several years.

Now back to the thread....

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:28 PM

More like things to make you go "Oh, just shut the fuck up you partisan mongrel fuckwit mook."

He misspoke. That is all.

It's called Snopes, look into it: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

It's incredible that with all of the information on the internet, people are still proud to be so ignorant.

Hey, he said it, I didn't When you have to be corrected about your faith, which is personal, it does make one go mmmmm....

DrewEdwards

09-08-2008, 03:29 PM

Hmmm....how is calling Obama a muslim slander?

It's not that calling him a muslim is slander. It's what people are trying imply with that connection. Playing towards people's "War on Terror" spawned xenophobia. It's more about an idea than reality.

It's a really nasty political game and something I wish people would rise above.

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 03:29 PM

Hmmm....how is calling Obama a muslim slander?

Well now, that really depends how much of a bigoted git you are...

Or worse, how much you're trying to conceal that you're still doing the Southern Strategy, and playing on other people's bigotry to win an election.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:29 PM

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

Once again:

All everyone needs to know here is that you are a congential liar.

The truth is I was a friend (singular) of RO, but as many here can testify, I have ceased to be a friend of RO for several years.

Now back to the thread....

Sean Walsh

09-08-2008, 03:29 PM

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

Oh god, the time loops HAVE begun.

Arrogantcur

09-08-2008, 03:29 PM

Peter David on McCain/Palin's media boycott:

http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/006436.html

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 03:31 PM

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:32 PM

That's a good first step. Now all you need to do is stop acting like a nazi twat.

You first? :biggrin:

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 03:33 PM

Hey, he said it, I didn't When you have to be corrected about your faith, which is personal, it does make one go mmmmm....

No, it makes me go "He misspoke and people sometimes do."

I'm sure you wouldn't take this particular misstatement by John McCain seriously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwK16V6Gjz0

He just misspoke.

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 03:33 PM

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 03:35 PM

You first? :biggrin:

I'm not the one inciting racial hatred.

K-DoG7p7

09-08-2008, 03:35 PM

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 03:37 PM

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:39 PM

No, it makes me go "He misspoke and people sometimes do."

I'm sure you wouldn't take this particular misstatement by John McCain seriously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwK16V6Gjz0

He just misspoke.

Actually, I believe he actually thinks himself as both a Conservative and a Liberal. Of course, they called this a Senior moment. What do they call what Senator Obama did?

Thanks for the link. It was another good laugh for me today.

Eliseu Gouveia

09-08-2008, 03:40 PM

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:42 PM

I'm not the one inciting racial hatred.

I am not inciting anything. All I did was point out something you may or may not have seen on the news and probably will see a bit a more before the day is out.

Unless you have something against those who practice Islam? I do not.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 03:43 PM

"Let's not play games," Obama stated. "What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come."

I dont think he even misspoke.. read what he said.. it still makes sense.. he is just saying that McCain has not accused him of being muslim..

Good point... I hadn't seen the full video interview until just now.

Here's the video with the context: http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=5745258

Starts at -3:00

The context of the conversation concerns people trying to paint Obama as a Muslim.

OBAMA: Let's not play games. What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come--

STEPHANOPOULOS: Christian faith.

OBAMA: My Christian faith. Well, what I'm saying is that he hasn't suggested I'm a Muslim.

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 03:44 PM

I am not inciting anything. All I did was point out something you may or may not have seen on the news and probably will see a bit a more before the day is out.

Unless you have something against those who practice Islam? I do not.

Bullshit.

You've been lying scum through most of the political threads, and this skeevy attitude of "who me? shit stirring?" is even more nauseating.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:45 PM

I'm pretty sure there is a youtube clip out there where you say you are still good friends with Rick.

I would be surprised if there is a YouTube clip of me out there, much less me commenting on RO there.

This is pure deceit on your part and all you wish to start is a flame war with me, and this reeks of methods RO would use to engage individuals he hates.

Kevinroc

09-08-2008, 03:45 PM

I am not inciting anything. All I did was point out something you may or may not have seen on the news and probably will see a bit a more before the day is out.

Unless you have something against those who practice Islam? I do not.

This is quite obviously a lie. You expected this thread to lead people to say "Oh my god! Obama really is a Muslim! I can't vote for him!"

Stressfactor

09-08-2008, 03:46 PM

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:47 PM

Bullshit.

You've been lying scum through most of the political threads, and this skeevy attitude of "who me? shit stirring?" is even more nauseating.

I never said I was not stirring it up. I just said I was not stirring up racial hatred and I am not the one making wild accusations that certain individuals I do not agree with are Nazis.

Breathe in, breathe out.

Sabrinaset

09-08-2008, 03:48 PM

You see? THIS is what happens when you let the political threads run amok on YABS instead of confining it all to just one place!

Geez, guys. When the blonde is doing the heavy thinking here, it's a sign of the Apocalypse.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 03:49 PM

Samuel Catalino, what do you think of the comments now that they are actually in their proper context?

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 03:49 PM

I just said I was not stirring up racial hatred .

And you're a liar.

section 8

09-08-2008, 03:49 PM

No, it makes me go "He misspoke and people sometimes do."

I'm sure you wouldn't take this particular misstatement by John McCain seriously: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwK16V6Gjz0

He just misspoke.
there is an obvious difference, and McCain caught himself.

as Samual pointed out ones spirituality is a very personal thing, i myself am a Baptist, not once have i ever misspoke referring to myself as a Buddhist.

Pesonally, i could give a damn.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 03:51 PM

there is an obvious difference, and McCain caught himself.

as Samual pointed out ones spirituality is a very personal thing, i myself am a Baptist, not once have i ever misspoke referring to myself as a Buddhist.

That's why I checked out the video and discussed the context of these comments here: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522415&postcount=27

But you're right, the gaffes aren't analogous since, as it turns out, Obama didn't gaffe

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:52 PM

This is quite obviously a lie. You expected this thread to lead people to say "Oh my god! Obama really is a Muslim! I can't vote for him!"

No, I expected most of you to come in and defend Obama and accuse me of everything under the sun. Many of you all have succeeded quite well on that score rather than engaging in a rational civil discussion. Some have posted quite rationally.

All I did was point out what the man said, and that the interviewer had to correct him.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 03:53 PM

All I did was point out what the man said, and that the interviewer had to correct him.

Samuel Catalino, what do you think of the comments now that they are actually in their proper context (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522415&postcount=27)?

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 03:54 PM

And you're a liar.

Amazing reply. How long did it take you to come up with that?

David O Burcham

09-08-2008, 03:55 PM

"I dont think he even misspoke.. read what he said.. it still makes sense.. he is just saying that McCain has not accused him of being muslim..

That's how I saw it. He was talking about how McCain has denounced the right-wing "OMG * I found the Intersnet!" e-mail rubes (cut from the same mold as the left-wing "Palin's son rilly be her GRANDson, H-Yuck!" dipshits).

I will admit when I first heard about the quote, I thought it was just another in his long line of gaffs Obama makes when he's separated from his teleprompter.

Although this instance is NOT a typical Obama gaff... dude makes Bush the Idiot Child look like Brainiac Five when his words aren't piped directly to him.

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 03:58 PM

Although this instance is NOT a typical Obama gaff... dude makes Bush the Idiot Child look like Brainiac Five when his words aren't piped directly to him.

You do know that he, unlike McCain, Bush and Palin, writes much of his own speeches?

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 03:59 PM

Amazing reply. How long did it take you to come up with that?

Samuel Catalino, what do you think of the comments now that they are actually in their proper context? (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522415&postcount=27)

section 8

09-08-2008, 03:59 PM

You do know that he, unlike McCain, Bush and Palin, writes much of his own speeches?

and he STILL cant memorize them?:eek:

Michael P

09-08-2008, 03:59 PM

Hey, everyone, let's try not feeding the troll for once.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 03:59 PM

Although this instance is NOT a typical Obama gaff... dude makes Bush the Idiot Child look like Brainiac Five when his words aren't piped directly to him.

In what way? Admittedly, Obama's extemporaneous talk is not as talking-point ready as Bush (i.e., Bush is quick because he doesn't answer questions so much as recites his talking points assertively), but his answers and responses tend to be more nuanced than black and white, and I find his considerations of the nuances of issues to be a sign of intelligence regardless of the style of delivery.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:00 PM

Samuel Catalino, what do you think of the comments now that they are actually in their proper context (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522415&postcount=27)?

I would say he needs to be more careful about what he says because words matter. Some people will believe that by him volunteering that, it makes it so.

section 8

09-08-2008, 04:01 PM

In what way? Admittedly, Obama's extemporaneous talk is not as talking-point ready as Bush (i.e., Bush is quick because he doesn't answer questions so much as recites his talking points assertively), but his answers and responses tend to be more nuanced than black and white, and I find his considerations of the nuances of issues to be a sign of intelligence regardless of the style of delivery.

ooh good point, disregard my previous post

the4thpip

09-08-2008, 04:02 PM

I would say he needs to be more careful about what he says because words matter. Some people will believe that by him volunteering that, it makes it so.

Only people who are as thick as you have proven yourself to be, over and over and over again.

Sadly, a lot of those seem to vote in your country, so we'll see.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 04:03 PM

I would say he needs to be more careful about what he says because words matter. Some people will believe that by him volunteering that, it makes it so.

But those people would be wrong and it ought to be incumbent upon the people with the facts to steer them otherwise.

Buzz Dixon

09-08-2008, 04:03 PM

This proves Obama's a Muslim as much as Condi Rice's reference to Bush as her "husband" proves W. is a polygamist.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:04 PM

You do know that he, unlike McCain, Bush and Palin, writes much of his own speeches?

I have heard this too, but I suspect he has assistance, much like JFK did.

section 8

09-08-2008, 04:05 PM

This proves Obama's a Muslim as much as Condi Rice's reference to Bush as her "husband" proves W. is a polygamist.

(to steal a bill mahr joke)
So you think Bush eats Rice?

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:06 PM

Only people who are as thick as you have proven yourself to be, over and over and over again.

Sadly, a lot of those seem to vote in your country, so we'll see.

Just because people do not agree with everything you say, it does not make them thick.

Do you have a problem with Democracy?

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 04:07 PM

ooh good point, disregard my previous post

You know, though, the issue of delivery is a good point to bring up. Even though I find Obama's ideas to be nuanced and I appreciate a willingness to discuss nuance, a lot of people tend to pay more attention to the delivery of the message than the message itself. Hence Phoney Bone's perception of Obama being not as intelligent as Bush.

I mentioned this after Obama's lackluster night at the Rick Warren forum, but he needs to find a way to express a nuanced opinion in an assertive way, which can be difficult to do if you really want to address a question and look at it from different sides rather than recite a talking point that is perfect and bite sized for the soundbite culture.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:07 PM

This proves Obama's a Muslim as much as Condi Rice's reference to Bush as her "husband" proves W. is a polygamist.

You know, no one has actually asked me what I think he is. You would have thought someone would have stepped up by now, or did I miss that question?

Kevinroc

09-08-2008, 04:07 PM

Just because people do not agree with everything you say, it does not make them thick.

Do you have a problem with Democracy?

It does make people thick when they vote for more of the same when that same has already proven to be disastrous.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:10 PM

You know, though, the issue of delivery is a good point to bring up. Even though I find Obama's ideas to be nuanced and I appreciate a willingness to discuss nuance, a lot of people tend to pay more attention to the delivery of the message than the message itself. Hence Phoney Bone's perception of Obama being not as intelligent as Bush.

I mentioned this after Obama's lackluster night at the Rick Warren forum, but he needs to find a way to express a nuanced opinion in an assertive way, which can be difficult to do if you really want to address a question and look at it from different sides rather than recite a talking point that is perfect and bite sized for the soundbite culture.

Let's be honest.

You can find quotes which each of the candidates sound like fools.

Evan Waters

09-08-2008, 04:11 PM

Countering the "Obama is an idiot when he's not reading the teleprompter" meme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RF650s7WOU

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 04:13 PM

Let's be honest.

You can find quotes which each of the candidates sound like fools.

Oh totally, and that's the nature of public figures who are expected to orate all the time, but a few foolish quotes here and there don't make the speaker a fool.

Michael P

09-08-2008, 04:14 PM

You know, no one has actually asked me what I think he is. You would have thought someone would have stepped up by now, or did I miss that question?

The thing is, we all know that what you actually think of Obama is irrelevant, even to you. All you really care about is trolling.

Red Jack

09-08-2008, 04:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BobGQTMhxf8

He had to be corrected by the interviewer.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

Okay.

let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that Obama is a muslim. or was raised as a muslim.

It's false, it's been proven false but, for your sake, fine. he's a big ol' muslim.

So what?

a little more than a 6th of the human population is muslim. Of that 1 billion plus, a statistically insignificant (indeed, almost unobservable) number practice the twisted form of the faith that leads to terrorism (and that is presuming that ALL muslims who take up arms are terrorists or that they serve illegitimate causes which is, again, not the case.). If that large a portion of humanity had it in its mind to do harm to the rest of us, the world would not survive the ensuing conflagration. And that's if the other guys only used machetes. There are simply too many of them. The sort of racist paranoia exhibited by this ridiculous line of attack is part of what makes people have to stifle vomit when they think of the Rebs.

So, unless you can prove he is not only a muslim (something you can't do) but a terrorist or terrorist supporter(also something you can't do), which "god" he worships or how he worships that "deity" is immaterial. He could burn black candles to Baal on the anti-sabbath while covered in Christmas glitter. So what?

Continuing this line of crap proves not only how effing stupid some people can be but also the not-so-hidden, not-so-under-current of racism that permeates Republican politics.

IOW:

Stick it.

KevinTBrown

09-08-2008, 04:15 PM

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

Yes he is......

All everyone needs to know here is that you are a congential liar.

The truth is I was a friend (singular) of RO, but as many here can testify, I have ceased to be a friend of RO for several years.

Now back to the thread....

And Pip is NOT a liar.

section 8

09-08-2008, 04:17 PM

BZZZZZZ
i gotta call foul here, He posted a link laced with a question, and made some follow up posts, none of wich is legally any form of "trolling"

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:18 PM

Yes he is......

And Pip is NOT a liar.

He lies and you swear to it.

KevinTBrown

09-08-2008, 04:18 PM

Samuel Catalino, what do you think of the comments now that they are actually in their proper context? (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=7522415&postcount=27)

Oh why do that??? Why actually take things in their entire context..?

section 8

09-08-2008, 04:19 PM

Okay.

let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that Obama is a muslim. or was raised as a muslim.

It's false, it's been proven false but, for your sake, fine. he's a big ol' muslim.

So what?

a little more than a 6th of the human population is muslim. Of that 1 billion plus, a statistically insignificant (indeed, almost unobservable) practice the twisted form of the faith that leads to terrorism (and that is presuming that ALL muslims who take up arms are terrorists or that they serve illegitimate causes which is, again, not the case.).

So, unless you can prove he is not only a muslim (something you can't do) but a terrorist or terrorist supporter, which "god" he worships or how he worships that "deity" is immaterial.

Continuing this line of crap proves not only how effing stupid some people can be but also the not-so-hidden, not-so-under-current of racism that permeates Republican politics.

IOW:

Stick it.

since i agree completley and have a love for ironic statments let me just say...

AMEN!

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:20 PM

The thing is, we all know that what you actually think of Obama is irrelevant, even to you. All you really care about is trolling.

No, I do not march to the sound of your drummer.

Corrina

09-08-2008, 04:20 PM

All everyone needs to know here is that you are a congential liar.

The truth is I was a friend (singular) of RO, but as many here can testify, I have ceased to be a friend of RO for several years.

Now back to the thread....

A warning to everyone that this is NOT an unmoderated thread.

Which means that you can call something a lie. But you can't personally decide that someone is a perpetual liar.

Unless they are. But you better be prepared to back that up with lots of evidence.

So take it to the unmoderated thread. Or PMs. I don't care which.

KevinTBrown

09-08-2008, 04:21 PM

He lies and you swear to it.

Let's put it this way:

Pip is as much of a liar as Obama is a Muslim....

And since Obama is a devout Christian, and has been for DECADES, that's all anyone needs to know.

David O Burcham

09-08-2008, 04:21 PM

In what way? ... his answers and responses tend to be more nuanced than black and white, and I find his considerations of the nuances of issues to be a sign of intelligence regardless of the style of delivery.

"In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." --on a Kansas tornado that killed 12 people

"Come on! I just answered, like, eight questions." – so, like, could you guys, like, cut him some, like, slack

"Just this past week, we passed out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee -- which is my committee -- a bill to call for divestment from Iran as way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don't obtain a nuclear weapon." --referring to a committee he is NOT on

“On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- ”

"What it says is that I'm not very well known in that part of the country. Sen. Clinton, I think, is much better known, coming from a nearby state of Arkansas. So it's not surprising that she would have an advantage in some of those states in the middle." – explaining his primary loss in Kentucky, which BORDERS Illinois

“What they'll say is, ‘Well, it costs too much money,’ but you know what? It would cost, about... It -- it -- it would cost about the same as what we would spend... It... Over the course of 10 years it would cost what it would costs us... (nervous laugh) All right. Okay. We're going to... It... It would cost us about the same as it would cost for about -- hold on one second. I can't hear myself (crowd wasn’t making a sound). But I'm glad you're fired up, though! I'm glad.”

“There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Ala., because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born.” – he was born in 1961, four years before the Selma march

"Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us,” followed just a few dats later by… “I’ve made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave.”

Nuanced?

Seriously... the Ivy League education system in our country has obviously been in some deep trouble for decades if blithering morons like Bush and Obama are the result.

section 8

09-08-2008, 04:25 PM

oh Ivy league schools are just ways for idots to compensate

Not me i'm an idiot, and i'm keepin' it real folks!

(EDIT; for proof of this notice how i spell Idiot the first time)

Royal

09-08-2008, 04:26 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BobGQTMhxf8

He had to be corrected by the interviewer.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

So are you going for the plasma or the PS3?

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 04:26 PM

Amazing reply. How long did it take you to come up with that?

About as long as you thought before starting a race-baiting thread.

Infra-Man

09-08-2008, 04:26 PM

"In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died -- an entire town destroyed." --on a Kansas tornado that killed 12 people

"Come on! I just answered, like, eight questions." – so, like, could you guys, like, cut him some, like, slack

"Just this past week, we passed out of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee -- which is my committee -- a bill to call for divestment from Iran as way of ratcheting up the pressure to ensure that they don't obtain a nuclear weapon." --referring to a committee he is NOT on

“On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes -- and I see many of them in the audience here today -- ”

"What it says is that I'm not very well known in that part of the country. Sen. Clinton, I think, is much better known, coming from a nearby state of Arkansas. So it's not surprising that she would have an advantage in some of those states in the middle." – explaining his primary loss in Kentucky, which BORDERS Illinois

“What they'll say is, ‘Well, it costs too much money,’ but you know what? It would cost, about... It -- it -- it would cost about the same as what we would spend... It... Over the course of 10 years it would cost what it would costs us... (nervous laugh) All right. Okay. We're going to... It... It would cost us about the same as it would cost for about -- hold on one second. I can't hear myself (crowd wasn’t making a sound). But I'm glad you're fired up, though! I'm glad.”

“There was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, Ala., because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born.” – he was born in 1961, four years before the Selma march

"Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us,” followed just a few dats later by… “I’ve made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave.”

Nuanced?

Seriously... the Ivy League education system in our country has obviously been in some deep trouble for decades if blithering morons like Bush and Obama are the result.

Those are some facepalm-worthy mistakes, I agree, but I don't think this collection of foolish statements automatically paints Obama as a fool, nor do these quotations mean that he is not as smart as Bush (both of whose paths to the Ivy Leagues were different, might I add).

Apart from these particular statements, how have you felt about his stump speeches and his debate performance?

section 8

09-08-2008, 04:27 PM

more like a "religion baiting thread"

...continue

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:31 PM

About as long as you thought before starting a race-baiting thread.

First of all, Islam is a religion, not a race.

Samuel Catalino

09-08-2008, 04:33 PM

more like a "religion baiting thread"

...continue

It just proves that there is a lot of people out there who seem to find being a Muslim as a negative thing.

I am not among them.

Typo Lad

09-08-2008, 04:36 PM

This proves Obama's a Muslim as much as Condi Rice's reference to Bush as her "husband" proves W. is a polygamist.

the humor of that being said by the most powerful lesbian in US politics should not be lost on anyone.

Red Jack

09-08-2008, 04:36 PM

It just proves that there is a lot of people out there who seem to find being a Muslim as a negative thing.

I am not among them.

Sure you are. You think you're clever, that's all. here's a flash. you're not. not in general and certainly not compared to this crew, regardless of party affiliation.

You're just another unjustifiably smug dim bulb who presumes it's his "debate" that stirs the pot rather than the stink of his stupidity.

But, by all means, please go on. eventually your own intellectual inertia will crush you.

Larime

09-08-2008, 04:38 PM

The world is ending. The apocalypse is nigh.

I find myself agreeing with Red Jack, lately.

Sabrinaset

09-08-2008, 04:47 PM

You know Sam, while bringing up this news story as its own thread is acceptable, I guess, I'm finding your defenses of why you did what you did disingenuous at best.

That plus the fact that I saw the story last night before I left for work, and almost posted it on the Election thread, but thought "Meh, who cares? Another gaffe by Obama, but it's not even funny like the fifty-seven states one was."

Meanwhile, a lot of people think Obama is some kind of god when he's in front of a mic, but I seriously worry about his performance during the debates. I wouldn't discount him pulling some Gerald Ford moment where he says the political equivalent of "There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe,"

the humor of that being said by the most powerful lesbian in US politics should not be lost on anyone.

I find Condi strangely hot now.

Corrina

09-08-2008, 04:53 PM

There's definitely good evidence that Condi is a lesbian. she and her partner bought a house together.

Which is neither here nor there, just thought you'd like to know, Bree. :)

And I see lots and lots of insults from many people in this thread. Any after this one, and this thread gets folded into the election thread. Where I don't have to play ref.

Sarah Beach

09-08-2008, 04:55 PM

Hey, he said it, I didn't When you have to be corrected about your faith, which is personal, it does make one go mmmmm....

If this is all that's being put into the discussion, I'm not going to wade through the whole thread.

I watch This Week most Sundays, and actually SAW the interview of Obama. It was quite obvious IN THE CONTEXT that Obama was talking about "people who want to make up fake stories about my being of the Muslim faith", and his brain produced a shorthand.

This is something all of us do from time to time. Trying to make anything more of it than that is just rabble-rousing of the un-fun sort.

DavidAllred

09-08-2008, 05:12 PM

A warning to everyone that this is NOT an unmoderated thread.

Which means that you can call something a lie. But you can't personally decide that someone is a perpetual liar.

Unless they are. But you better be prepared to back that up with lots of evidence.

So take it to the unmoderated thread. Or PMs. I don't care which.

I'd hope that the same rules would apply to the accusation that Samuel is a racist, which to me is a much more serious accusation.

That said, this is a thread I won't be participating in, it's got a tad to much venom.

BnL

09-08-2008, 05:14 PM

So explain again what relevant issues makes Palin your woman to vote for? Oh yeah you don't have any.

Now, that's just not true! He's drawn to the fact that Palin's church promotes reparative therapy for gays! The potential for the VP of the United States promoting it on a national level is clearly what he finds so "ferociously fabulous!" What self-respecting homo could resist THAT?!

Royal

09-08-2008, 05:14 PM

I still want to know if Sam is trying to get a plasma tv or a PS3.

Royal

09-08-2008, 05:27 PM

A list of McCain's hothead blow ups (http://www.kansascity.com/445/v-print/story/785831.html)

Might I also add to the list the subsuquent blow up on Rorion Gracie after his GRAPPLE (Gracie Reccomended Assult Plan for Police and Law Enforcment) program was given federal funding. He had to restrain himself while McCain chest thumped him and called him everything short of spic.

Typo Lad

09-08-2008, 05:33 PM

There's definitely good evidence that Condi is a lesbian. she and her partner bought a house together.

Which is neither here nor there, just thought you'd like to know, Bree. :)

It's very much a known thing in DC.

section 8

09-08-2008, 05:55 PM

Hey, he said it, I didn't When you have to be corrected about your faith, which is personal, it does make one go mmmmm....

Or in Inframan's case it made him go..."mmmm better look that up, see what the facts are."

More than i can say for me

section 8

09-08-2008, 05:56 PM

the humor of that being said by the most powerful lesbian in US politics should not be lost on anyone.

John Edward said THAT? :eek:

rick

09-08-2008, 06:04 PM

It just proves that there is a lot of people out there who seem to find being a Muslim as a negative thing.

I am not among them.

Fuck you Sam.

You are the religious equilivent of a race baiter.

Corrina

09-08-2008, 06:23 PM

Since there's at least three people in this thread who are on the verge of a temp ban and I'd rather not do that, have at it here, in the unmoderated threat.

Sabrinaset

09-08-2008, 06:27 PM

Corrina, I kinda wish you would take all the other political threads and dump them here too.

LtMarvel

09-08-2008, 06:59 PM

Sabrinaset

09-08-2008, 07:00 PM

http://www.cagle.com/working/080906/horsey.jpg

http://www.cagle.com/working/080905/sherffius21.jpg

http://www.cagle.com/working/080906/varvel.jpg

LtMarvel

09-08-2008, 07:03 PM

That's how I saw it. He was talking about how McCain has denounced the right-wing "OMG * I found the Intersnet!" e-mail rubes (cut from the same mold as the left-wing "Palin's son rilly be her GRANDson, H-Yuck!" dipshits).

I will admit when I first heard about the quote, I thought it was just another in his long line of gaffs Obama makes when he's separated from his teleprompter.

Although this instance is NOT a typical Obama gaff... dude makes Bush the Idiot Child look like Brainiac Five when his words aren't piped directly to him.
Not even on Obama's worst day.

Tages

09-08-2008, 07:06 PM

Corrina

09-08-2008, 07:08 PM

Corrina, I kinda wish you would take all the other political threads and dump them here too.

Well, I kinda wish that people not named Gail stop making new threads. :)

section 8

09-08-2008, 07:25 PM

so if i just change my name to Gail...

Buzz Dixon

09-08-2008, 07:26 PM

You know, no one has actually asked me what I think he is. You would have thought someone would have stepped up by now, or did I miss that question?Frankly, I suspect nobody cares what you think...:confused:

Sabrinaset

09-08-2008, 08:18 PM

so if i just change my name to Gail...

You started two threads today. And over 90 in the few months you've been here. Why would that stop you?

section 8

09-08-2008, 08:40 PM

good point
In my defense those treads....failed miserably

section 8

09-08-2008, 08:49 PM

[QUOTE=Sabrinaset;7523653]http://www.cagle.com/working/080906/horsey.jpg

why is the TV on the porch?
:confused:

FalconX2000

09-08-2008, 10:45 PM

You know Sam, while bringing up this news story as its own thread is acceptable, I guess, I'm finding your defenses of why you did what you did disingenuous at best.

That plus the fact that I saw the story last night before I left for work, and almost posted it on the Election thread, but thought "Meh, who cares? Another gaffe by Obama, but it's not even funny like the fifty-seven states one was."

Meanwhile, a lot of people think Obama is some kind of god when he's in front of a mic, but I seriously worry about his performance during the debates. I wouldn't discount him pulling some Gerald Ford moment where he says the political equivalent of "There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe,"

I've got a theory that Obama tends to get confused when he's standing at a podium in a debate. There's a part of his mind that's nagging him that this is stump speech time.

While his podium debates have been a mixed bag, probably his best performance was the 20th sitdown debate with Hillary Clinton. I'd hope the debates are either sitdown types or just give the candidates a mic each and let them walk around with it.

K-DoG7p7

09-08-2008, 10:53 PM

http://www.cagle.com/working/080906/horsey.jpg

interestingly the guy in charge at the time claimed McCain wasn't tortured.. and that he and McCain often had private talks in his office.. about politics

section 8

09-08-2008, 10:57 PM

interestingly the guy in charge at the time claimed McCain wasn't tortured.. and that he and McCain often had private talks in his office.. about politics

riiight
"he was tied up cut up and sporting a barbed wire butt- plug with fish hooks in his scrotem when we found him i swear!!

Adam C

09-08-2008, 11:03 PM

interestingly the guy in charge at the time claimed McCain wasn't tortured.. and that he and McCain often had private talks in his office.. about politics

Ahhhhh... There's no self-serving horse-shit quite like aggrandizing self-serving horse-shit.

kingdom2000

09-08-2008, 11:11 PM

interestingly the guy in charge at the time claimed McCain wasn't tortured.. and that he and McCain often had private talks in his office.. about politics

At this point, mostly because of the way McCain has turned it into a joke, his POW status is and should remain irrelvant to the issue of wether he should be president. To bad I seem to be a minority. But then I just saw some women claim she was voting for McCain because of Palin's "no nonsense attitude" as if that means anything in regards to the issues and what not.

Like that McCain campaign manager said, its not the issues that decide the election, its the personality crap people walk away with about the candidates. I know America is has currently entered its fall of rome phase but do people have to give up critical thinking skill that easily and accelerate the process?

Black Vespa

09-08-2008, 11:14 PM

interestingly the guy in charge at the time claimed McCain wasn't tortured.. and that he and McCain often had private talks in his office.. about politics

interesting that there is documented photos of mccain shortly after beatdowns with noticeable wounds and marks...the guys hair turned white within 6 weeks, was placed in solitary confinement for 2 years which left him atrophied, -and that along w/ broken bones that were not treated left him in a position that til this day he still cannot raise his arms above his shoulders. despite all the numerous accounts from other american pow's who witnessed him being abused to the point that they thought he was going to die, - you're inclined to put stock in what the "guy in charge" says. that's what's interesting. interestingly insulting.

whether you're democrat, republican, independent, libertarian, communist or whatever, - you should at least recognize what the guy went through. not to say we oughta praise him, feel sorry for him, or anything else. - but recognize what he went through.

section 8

09-08-2008, 11:14 PM

seems like he'd wanna swep it under the rug,
(POW status not his service) if i were him i'd be afraid that voters might worry that the experience had unhinged me in some way

Adam C

09-08-2008, 11:15 PM

I know America is has currently entered its fall of rome phase but do people have to give up critical thinking skill that easily and accelerate the process?

I think America has entered it's Fall of Rome phase because people had given up on critical thinking and grown complacent. How else could Junior have gotten away with the nonsense he pulled for so long that it took Hurricane Katrina devastating a major American city and the botched response effort to kill his credibility?

Michael P

09-08-2008, 11:17 PM

Eh, we'll probably be better off once we hand off the empire-building to China. Psychologically, I mean.

Nick Soapdish

09-08-2008, 11:19 PM

interesting that there is documented photos of mccain shortly after beatdowns with noticeable wounds and marks...the guys hair turned white within 6 weeks, was placed in solitary confinement for 2 years which left him atrophied, -and that along w/ broken bones that were not treated left him in a position that til this day he still cannot raise his arms above his shoulders. despite all the numerous accounts from other american pow's who witnessed him being abused to the point that they thought he was going to die, - you're inclined to put stock in what the "guy in charge" says. that's what's interesting. interestingly insulting.

I think that it's more interesting that the GOP seems to think that him being a POW and having been in Washington for 26 years are his only qualifications for the office.

section 8

09-08-2008, 11:22 PM

Michael P

09-08-2008, 11:23 PM

We have?
Where are the Orgies?..

If the stories are to be believed, Midwestern suburbs.

section 8

09-08-2008, 11:26 PM

*starts Packing suitcase*

Black Vespa

09-08-2008, 11:27 PM

I think that it's more interesting that the GOP seems to think that him being a POW and having been in Washington for 26 years are his only qualifications for the office.

now, i will agree with that. the GOP has got to be the lamest, out of date, short-sighted party this side of the supposed free-world.

section 8

09-08-2008, 11:49 PM

now, i will agree with that. the GOP has got to be the lamest, out of date, short-sighted party this side of the supposed free-world.

and they are also poorly dressed

Paul McEnery

09-08-2008, 11:52 PM

I think America has entered it's Fall of Rome phase because people had given up on critical thinking and grown complacent.

A remarkably passive way to put it.

Black Atom

09-09-2008, 12:04 AM

I think America has entered it's Fall of Rome phase because people had given up on critical thinking and grown complacent. How else could Junior have gotten away with the nonsense he pulled for so long that it took Hurricane Katrina devastating a major American city and the botched response effort to kill his credibility?

I don't think individual Americans can bare the brunt of the blame, and that's mostly because I'm not convinced that 100 years ago, people were all that much more critical and less complacent. Somewhere along the way there was the establishment of an oligarchy whose best interest is to perpetuate the ignorance of the majority while ensurance their optimistic contribution to the workforce and consumption. You're watching irresponsible capitalism speed toward it's inevitable conclusion. And what other outcome can be expected when a nation puts freedom (which really means economic freedom) before all other ideals, like, most importantly, justice?

section 8

09-09-2008, 12:11 AM

or maybe it is what i call today's "prison Bitch metality"

as in "keep me safe and i'll bend right over and take it"

Black Vespa

09-09-2008, 12:12 AM

I don't think individual Americans can bare the brunt of the blame, and that's mostly because I'm not convinced that 100 years ago, people were all that much more critical and less complacent. Somewhere along the way there was the establishment of an oligarchy whose best interest is to perpetuate the ignorance of the majority while ensurance their optimistic contribution to the workforce and consumption. You're watching irresponsible capitalism speed toward it's inevitable conclusion. And what other outcome can be expected when a nation puts freedom (which really means economic freedom) before all other ideals, like, most importantly, justice?

that's one way of looking at it. i hadn't fleshed out that thought as well as you put it there. Interesting take.

Kevinroc

09-09-2008, 12:20 AM

I don't think individual Americans can bare the brunt of the blame, and that's mostly because I'm not convinced that 100 years ago, people were all that much more critical and less complacent. Somewhere along the way there was the establishment of an oligarchy whose best interest is to perpetuate the ignorance of the majority while ensurance their optimistic contribution to the workforce and consumption. You're watching irresponsible capitalism speed toward it's inevitable conclusion. And what other outcome can be expected when a nation puts freedom (which really means economic freedom) before all other ideals, like, most importantly, justice?

I'd say the voters have put "security" before "freedom" (or at least the illusion of security). It's that old line that has been used (and rephrased) so many times: "Those that would trade essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither."

section 8

09-09-2008, 12:25 AM

Black Atom

09-09-2008, 12:28 AM

or maybe it is what i call today's "prison Bitch metality"

as in "keep me safe and i'll bend right over and take it"

Well. We rely on experts to educate us and protect us. That hasn't changed. The problem in an increasingly irresponsible capitalist society, is that it's often a conflict of interest for experts to perform that job. The person helping you sell your home, invest your money, or qualify for a loan is, often, financially better off screwing you over in some way. Who stands to profit if your house is foreclosed on? Does the investment broker lose his initial commission if he put all your money in a fund with initially high returns that tanks years later? The only thing keeping the people we trust with our money and health from screwing us completely is a sense of ethics.

I honestly think Americans have to be more responsible and vigilant than we've ever been. People from my grandfather's generation never had to deal with cartoons telling their children to buy toys and fast food chains lobbying to kill legislation that would make it impossible for them to sell them meat with feces in it.

Black Atom

09-09-2008, 12:36 AM

I'd say the voters have put "security" before "freedom" (or at least the illusion of security). It's that old line that has been used (and rephrased) so many times: "Those that would trade essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither."

For most people, freedom's been gone for decades, though. Being able to have phone conversations without the FBI listening in is bullshit freedom. I'd rather be free from an institutionalized economic caste system, personally. I couldn't care less if the government wants to listen to me having phone sex with a girl I met on Match.com.

This is not really an anti-capitalism thing, by the way. It's more me saying that the people who's job it is to keep us safe (the government) has actively sought to do the opposite. There's little the average American can do under such circumstances.

section 8

09-09-2008, 12:40 AM

Well. We rely on experts to educate us and protect us. That hasn't changed. The problem in an increasingly irresponsible capitalist society, is that it's often a conflict of interest for experts to perform that job. The person helping you sell your home, invest your money, or qualify for a loan is, often, financially better off screwing you over in some way. Who stands to profit if your house is foreclosed on? Does the investment broker lose his initial commission if he put all your money in a fund with initially high returns that tanks years later? The only thing keeping the people we trust with our money and health from screwing us completely is a sense of ethics.

I honestly think Americans have to be more responsible and vigilant than we've ever been. People from my grandfather's generation never had to deal with cartoons telling their children to buy toys and fast food chains lobbying to kill legislation that would make it impossible for them to sell them meat with feces in it.

these days it has hit a new extreame

Kevinroc

09-09-2008, 12:57 AM

For most people, freedom's been gone for decades, though. Being able to have phone conversations without the FBI listening in is bullshit freedom. I'd rather be free from an institutionalized economic caste system, personally. I couldn't care less if the government wants to listen to me having phone sex with a girl I met on Match.com.

This is not really an anti-capitalism thing, by the way. It's more me saying that the people who's job it is to keep us safe (the government) has actively sought to do the opposite. There's little the average American can do under such circumstances.

It actually is rather sad that a lot of people don't recognize what their government is doing to them. The media certainly isn't helping but that ties into the institutionalized economic caste system that doesn't wish to upset the very profitable status quo for the few people that own all major outlets.

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 01:03 AM

This is not really an anti-capitalism thing, by the way. It's more me saying that the people who's job it is to keep us safe (the government) has actively sought to do the opposite. There's little the average American can do under such circumstances.

The problem isn't capitalism, it's authoritarian capitalism. Which is as dumb as authoritarian socialism. What we need is the two of them at each other's throats, er, I mean in joyful patriotic partnership, both to keep the other side honest and to keep their own side edgy.

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 02:10 AM

Just because people do not agree with everything you say, it does not make them thick.

Do you have a problem with Democracy?

No... you disagreeing with you on opinions does not make you thick. You disagreeing on proven facts makes you thick.

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 02:10 AM

You know, no one has actually asked me what I think he is. You would have thought someone would have stepped up by now, or did I miss that question?

It's clear you were only making propaganda.

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 02:14 AM

Oh why do that??? Why actually take things in their entire context..?

What, like taking Samuel's friendship withe vile Rick Olney in its historical context?

Once an ORCA, always an ORCA I say. Imaginary fish have no place in the new America.

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 02:22 AM

seems like he'd wanna swep it under the rug,
(POW status not his service) if i were him i'd be afraid that voters might worry that the experience had unhinged me in some way

Oh come on, we've all called our second wives a "trollop" and "cunt" in front of journalists a time or two.

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 02:25 AM

http://images.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2008/09/09/mistress_palin/cover.jpg

Sarah Palin is trying to seduce independent voters. But she comes across like a whip-wielding mistress who wants to discipline a naughty America.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2008/09/09/mistress_palin/

Royal

09-09-2008, 03:16 AM

It's clear you were only making propaganda.

He's probably going for the plasma TV.

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 04:10 AM

Palin Billed State for Nights Spent at Home
Taxpayers Also Funded Family's Travel

ANCHORAGE, Sept. 8 -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home during her first 19 months in office, charging a "per diem" allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business.

The governor also has charged the state for travel expenses to take her children on official out-of-town missions. And her husband, Todd, has billed the state for expenses and a daily allowance for trips he makes on official business for his wife.

Palin, who earns $125,000 a year, claimed and received $16,951 as her allowance, which officials say was permitted because her official "duty station" is Juneau, according to an analysis of her travel documents by The Washington Post.

The governor's daughters and husband charged the state $43,490 to travel, and many of the trips were between their house in Wasilla and Juneau, the capital city 600 miles away, the documents show.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090803088.html

section 8

09-09-2008, 04:24 AM

Oh come on, we've all called our second wives a "trollop" and "cunt" in front of journalists a time or two.

no no no
I called her a "Country Trollop" (she was quite redneck)

BnL

09-09-2008, 04:47 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090803088.html

Yeah, but think of all the money she must've saved the taxpayers when, as mayor of Wasilla, she allowed law enforcement to bill rape victims for the cost of their forensic exams. (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt) Oh, she's a real champion for women's causes, that one! No wonder so many Hillary supporters like Novaya just love her. Billing the victims for the investigation of a crime committed against them is SO ferociously fabulous!

Arrogantcur

09-09-2008, 05:51 AM

Arrogantcur

09-09-2008, 05:58 AM

Besides all that -- when did it become such a crime to be Muslim?!?!?! How many of you know that we have TWO Muslim Congressmen? One of whom was sworn into office with his hand on a copy of the Quaran that was once in the private library of Thomas Jefferson.

We need to get over this people. Do we paint every Christian with the same brush because Fred Phelps claims to be one?

It's unfortunate, but...forget about being a Muslim. Do you even think that an atheist or agnostic person could get elected President? Do you think that it might even be kind of an uphill battle for Jewish person? I mean okay, props to Keith Ellison for getting into Congress, but in order to get to the Oval Office you seem to need more mass appeal.

AFAIK all of the Presidents in the history of the country have been Christians of one type or another. A person's religious beliefs should not matter to voters if those beliefs don't interfere with how effective they are at their job, but nevertheless voters still make decisions based on religion.

So for anybody to imply that Obama is a Muslim not only hurts him by saying "his religion is the same as the TERRORISTS! That should make you scared!" but also by saying "he isn't a CHRISTIAN! Do you want to elect somebody who isn't a Christian?! Of course you don't!" And millions of uninformed, ignorant voters across the country will buy it.

LtMarvel

09-09-2008, 06:24 AM

Alexx1

09-09-2008, 06:46 AM

Why is the race so tight? Food for thought:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/americandebate/

Let us swing the door ajar and invite the elephant into the room. One big reason why Barack Obama is locked in a tight race, rather than easily outdistancing his opponent, is because he is black.

That factor is rarely discussed in polite political conversation. People tend to dance around it, talking instead about Obama’s perceived inexperience, or his youth, or his perceived airs, or his liberal voting record. And racist sentiment rarely shows up in the polls, because a lot of people don’t want to share their baser instincts with the pollsters; they’ll save that instead for the privacy of the voting booth.

But the incremental evidence - anecdotal and even statistical - has become impossible to ignore.

Union organizers in the key state of Michigan complain in the press that, as one puts it, “we’re all struggling to some extent with the problem of white workers who will not vote for Obama because of his color.” An aging mine electrician in Kentucky is quoted elsewhere as saying, “I won’t vote for a colored man. He’ll put too many coloreds in jobs.” An elderly woman in a New Jersey hair salon is overheard complaining about Barack and Michelle the other day, about how blacks supposedly have larger bones than whites, and about how she’s fleeing America if Obama wins. A Republican operative confesses in New York magazine that Obama’s race “is the thing that nobody wants to talk about, but it’s obviously a huge factor.”

And every once in awhile, an Obama critic will find a way to inject race into the dialogue, under the guise of doing no such thing. Consider the semi-coherent wordplay of Georgia Republican congressman Lynn Westmoreland, who said last Thursday that Barack and Michelle are “a member of an elitist class individual that thinks that they’re uppity.” Given the fact that “uppity” has been recognized for generations as a racially-loaded pejorative, a reporter asked Westmoreland whether he really intended to use that word. The congressman’s reply: “Uppity, yeah.” Hours later, Westmoreland insisted that he didn’t think the word was racially loaded - thereby becoming perhaps the first segregationist-era southerner (he was raised near Atlanta during the ‘50s) ever to attempt such a ludicrous claim.

Another southerner, ex-President Jimmy Carter said, during the Democratic convention that race would indeed be a “subterranean issue” in this election, yet at times it has already surfaced for all to see. Case in point, Pennsylvania. On the day of the Democratic presidential primary, 12 percent of the white Democratic voters told the exit pollsters that race mattered in their choice of candidate; of those whites, 76 percent chose Hillary Clinton over Obama. The same pattern surfaced in other states, including the key autumn state of Ohio.

This is worth pondering a moment longer. If 12 percent of Democratic voters are willing to tell exit pollsters, eye to eye, that race was an important factor, to Obama’s detriment, isn’t it fair to assume that the real percentage (including those who kept their sentiments private) was actually higher? And what might this portend for the general election, when the white electorate will be broader, and hence significantly less liberal, than in Democratic contests?

Here’s one hint. Last June, the Washington Post-ABC News poll devised a “racial sensitivity index,” based on a series of nuanced questions that were designed to measure the varying levels of racial prejudice in the white electorate. The pollsters came up with three categories, ranging from most to least enlightened. The key finding: Whites in the least-enlightened category – roughly 30 percent of the white electorate – favored John McCain over Obama by a ratio of 2-1.

A few prominent Democrats did broach this sensitive topic at the Denver convention. Dee Dee Myers, the former Bill Clinton aide, shared her concerns at one political forum, and with good reason. She worked for Los Angeles mayor Tom Bradley back in the ‘80s, when it appeared that Bradley was a cinch to win his gubernatorial contest despite his race. The final round of polls showed him winning comfortably. He lost.

“I lived through that,” said Myers. “We’re whistling past the graveyard if we think that race was not a factor in the Democratic primaries. Today’s young voters will get us past these attitudes,” but it will take time. As for millions of older voters, “they talk about having ‘culture’ problems (with Obama), but to separate culture from race is impossible.”

Faye Wattleton, an African-American leader who now runs the Center for the Advancement of Women, chimed in: “Anyone who thinks that we’re past racism in this country is living on another planet than the one I live on every single day.”

And Markos Moulitsas, who runs the liberal Daily Kos blog, assessed the ’08 race factor this way: “It’s human nature, a lot of people want to cling to the comfortable word that they’ve always lived in. The Obamas don’t look like what First Families have always looked like. This will be one of the factors in the fall, because a lot of people simply want to stick with what they’ve known in the past.”

The race factor is not necessarily fatal, of course, because in the end it may be trumped by other factors - such as McCain’s age, or nagging concerns about handing the nuclear football, in an emergency, to a former “hockey mom” whose chief national security credential is the proximity of Alaska to Russia.

But clearly Obama needs to tread carefully, arguably by stressing lunch pail economic issues and continuing to present himself as a “post-racial” candidate. He will need to dispel these white suspicions, if only because whites will continue to dominate the electorate – they constituted 77 percent of all voters in 2004 – even if he manages to inspire an historic black turnout. Nor can he rely simply on stoking a record turnout among racially tolerant young people, because they will always be trumped by the seniors. Obama clearly needs to improve his numbers there. And he has to bond somehow with blue-collar whites – yet, at the same time, he can’t show too much passion, because, as Democratic strategist Joe Trippi explained to me in Denver, “Those whites don’t like to see a black guy getting angry, it’s a dangerous thing for an African-American candidate to do.”

I’m not suggesting that racism would be the sole explanation for an Obama loss. Nor am I seeking to insult those who object to Obama purely on the issues. But if Obama winds up losing after having posted a seemingly solid polling lead on election eve, we may well find ourselves pondering the words of Henry David Thoreau, who wrote in 1854 that “public opinion is a weak tyrant, compared with our own private opinion.”

Alexx1

09-09-2008, 06:55 AM

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/americandebate/

1. Gov. Palin, news reports indicate that you are undergoing intensive foreign policy tutelage from Senator Joe Lieberman and senior members of the McCain team, including Randy Scheunemann and Stephen Biegun. Lieberman and Scheunemann are known for their ties to the neoconservatives who promoted the invasion of Iraq. Biegun last worked on George W. Bush's National Security Council. Given your lack of foreign policy expertise, how confident can we be – and how confident are you – that you are being briefed by a sufficiently broad range of people? Is the McCain campaign reaching out to include, as briefers, prominent Republicans who disagree with the neoconservatives and the Bush White House? People like Brent Scowcroft and Colin Powell, for example? Are you insisting on a broad range of briefers? If the range of advice that you are getting is narrow, how would you know?

2. You recently stated in a church appearance that the war in Iraq is “a task from God.” Imagine that you have been thrust into the presidency, and that you have to decide whether to launch a new military action. If you were to determine, in your prayers, that this new military action also qualified as “a task from God,” how much confidence should the American people have that you would carefully consider all earthly counter-arguments – including any warnings by U.S. intelligence that war was the least defensible option?

3. One follow-up on Iraq. In Bob Woodward’s new book, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says about Iraq, “There are a lot of things if I could go back and do them differently, I would.” Do you agree with Secretary Rice? If so, since you have been vetted by Senator McCain as being ready to assume the presidency, will you share with us three or four specific things that you wish had been done differently in Iraq? For instance, in terms of execution, what would you have done differently with respect to the Sunnis and the Shiites? Can you explain to us the difference between the Sunnis and the Shiites?

4. Following up on the simple question that Campbell Brown of CNN tried to ask last week – she posed this question to a McCain aide, who ruled it out of bounds – can you give us an example of a command that you have given to the Alaska National Guard? Something specific that sheds light on your readiness to be commander-in-chief of the United States? And could you please comment on last week’s press reports that the Alaska National Guard, during your tenure as governor, has been plagued by personnel shortages that make its aviation units the most poorly staffed in America? How do you respond to the fact that the Alaska Guard’s top officer warned in a memo, earlier this year, that the lack of qualified airmen “has reached a crisis level”? How do these developments square with Senator McCain’s claim that your command of the Guard constitutes national security experience?

5. Governor, you are currently the target of an ethics probe in Alaska. It was authorized by a bipartisan decision of the legislature. You are accused in some quarters of abusing your power, that you fired the state police commissioner because he allegedly dragged his feet on dumping one of his troopers, your ex-brother-in-law. The details may be too murky for many voters, but what’s most interesting is that at first you promised to cooperate fully with the investigation – only to renege on that promise. Now you’re saying that you will only provide testimony if the legislature stops its own probe and transfers jurisdiction to the state Personnel Board – whose three members are appointed by the governor. If you have nothing to hide, why are you trying to game the process? And isn’t there a risk that your stance in Alaska might remind some voters of the Bush administration’s general refusal to cooperate fully with congressional oversight investigators?

6. Governor, you will soon become a grandmother, congratulations. You have praised your daughter for her decision to have the baby and keep the baby. You emphasize that this was her choice. But there are tens of millions of voters who would like to have a far broader range of choices. How do you intend to persuade Hillary Clinton’s voters that all women should be denied the choice of abortion, even in cases of rape or incest? Isn’t your position antithetical to what Hillary Clinton has fought for since the ruling of Roe v. Wade?

7. Governor, you keep telling audiences that you told Congress, “Thanks, but no thanks” on the boondoggle Bridge to Nowhere – whereas in reality, of course, you campaigned for that bridge project in 2006 and abandoned it only when it became a national embarrassment. How do you square your current remarks with your previous remarks praising the work of Alaska’s Republican delegation in obtaining the federally-earmarked funds? And how do you square Senator McCain’s promise to veto all earmarked projects with the fact that Alaska depends heavily on federal earmarks, and that Alaska is currently seeking projects totaling well in excess of $100 million? And how can you present yourself as an anti-earmark “maverick,” when your own representative in Washington, John Katz, recently defended earmarks in an op-ed piece, calling them “a legitimate exercise of Congress’ constitutional power to amend the budget”?

8. Governor, you and your husband in the past have attended conventions of the Alaska Independence Party. This year, you videotaped a message of greeting for the AIP’s 2008 convention, urging members to “keep up the good work.” Yet the AIP for decades has endorsed the idea of giving Alaskans the option to secede from the United States. Why have you failed to denounce a group whose message contradicts Senator McCain’s slogan “Country First”? And why do you continue to associate with a group whose founder, Joe Vogler, declared that “the fires of hell are glaciers compared to my hate for the American government” and declared that “I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions”? Governor, why haven’t you renounced this man, the way that Senator Obama has renounced Jeremiah Wright?

9. And forgive me, governor, but I can’t resist this one. The entire state of Alaska has 670,000 people. Montgomery County, a suburban county outside Philadelphia, has 775,000 people. The Montgomery County commissioners deal with issues of sprawl and land use and environment versus economic development, just as you do, except they don’t run huge budget surpluses every year, like you do – with 86 percent of your tax revenue coming from the oil industry. Therefore, given the fact that the Montgomery commissioners have more constituents than you do, tougher budget tradeoffs than you have, and given the fact that they have roughly the same national security expertise as you do, aren’t they just as qualified as you to be vice president of the United States?

Charles RB

09-09-2008, 07:06 AM

Things that make you go hmmmmmm....

No they don't, it's as relevant to US politics as the last time Obama went to the toilet, especially when (as later pointed out) he was saying McCain hasn't called him a Muslim.

And especially after it's been completely established he's not a Muslim, and it's bloody obvious the "HE'S A MUSLIM!" thing was started as a covert way of saying "DON'T VOTE FOR HIM HE'LL HELP TERRORISTS!" or some crap.

And we can't say he's secretly a Muslim and go on about his former pastor, that makes no sense.

Oops:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/08/palin-makes-her-first-gaf_n_124792.html

...ow. :frown:

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

No he's not.

Charles RB

09-09-2008, 07:18 AM

Sarah Palin is trying to seduce independent voters. But she comes across like a whip-wielding mistress who wants to discipline a naughty America.[/I]

http://www.salon.com/opinion/kamiya/2008/09/09/mistress_palin/

That was fucking depressing to read.

Yeah, but think of all the money she must've saved the taxpayers when, as mayor of Wasilla, she allowed law enforcement to bill rape victims for the cost of their forensic exams. (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt)

No, wait, THAT'S the fucking depressing bit.

Where are the Democrat ads saying "the Republicans aren't pro-law and order, their VP candidate outright made it harder for rape victims to report their crimes and evidence to be gathered"?

section 8

09-09-2008, 07:21 AM

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 07:38 AM

Stressfactor

09-09-2008, 07:40 AM

It's unfortunate, but...forget about being a Muslim. Do you even think that an atheist or agnostic person could get elected President? Do you think that it might even be kind of an uphill battle for Jewish person? I mean okay, props to Keith Ellison for getting into Congress, but in order to get to the Oval Office you seem to need more mass appeal.

AFAIK all of the Presidents in the history of the country have been Christians of one type or another. A person's religious beliefs should not matter to voters if those beliefs don't interfere with how effective they are at their job, but nevertheless voters still make decisions based on religion.

So for anybody to imply that Obama is a Muslim not only hurts him by saying "his religion is the same as the TERRORISTS! That should make you scared!" but also by saying "he isn't a CHRISTIAN! Do you want to elect somebody who isn't a Christian?! Of course you don't!" And millions of uninformed, ignorant voters across the country will buy it.

Actually, many of the founding fathers and early presidents were Deists -- they tended to believe in "God" in a general, kind of amorphous, philosopihcal way but they did not necessarily believe in "Christ" -- hence, they were not Christians.

Really, the issue of religiosity has long been tied to prejudices. For example, the Nativist Movement in this country in the mid 1800's often targeted Catholics and there was much anti-Catholic sentiment at the time that was about as much over the religion of Catholicism as it was that America had been experiencing a wave of Irish and German immigration and most Irish coming at that time were Catholic and the Germans tended to be coming from Catholic areas as well. The sentiment was mostly aimed at the Irish and fears that said Irish would "overrun America" and take away jobs from good, hardworking Americans. Sound familiar? Some places would even advertise jobs and include underneath the advertisement the phrase "No Irish Need Apply".

It seems silly now that we look back on it but there were people who were against JFK because he was Catholic -- even though that is a Christian religion -- because they feared he would be more beholden to the Pope than he would be to America.

I think someone who is Jewish would have a better shot at the Presidency than say, someone who was Muslim or Budhist or something else if for no other reason than that most Americans have had enough enculturation with the Jewish faith to understand that there are certain things held in common -- going to chuch (temple) services regularly, being an active member of their church (temple), etc. Whereas people haven't had as much enculturation of other religions and thost religions may not function in the same manner -- i.e. regular attendence at some sort of weekly service -- and those religions with their unfamiliarity come across as "OTHER" in a bad way.

To me it seems the American people are not so much really interested in religion as in the TRAPPINGS of religion because it is something familiar they can hearken back to and because it another one of those 'cultural touchstones'. Just like the symbolism of "small town America" there is the symbolism of the "church going Christian" and far more people pay more attention to the symbol than they do to the reality.

Michael P

09-09-2008, 07:48 AM

FalconX2000

09-09-2008, 08:06 AM

Yeah, but think of all the money she must've saved the taxpayers when, as mayor of Wasilla, she allowed law enforcement to bill rape victims for the cost of their forensic exams. (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2000/05/23/news.txt) Oh, she's a real champion for women's causes, that one! No wonder so many Hillary supporters like Novaya just love her. Billing the victims for the investigation of a crime committed against them is SO ferociously fabulous!

...I don't understand. The article seems to be about Gov Tony Knowles signing a law protecting victims from such billings. Where does it state anything about Palin?:confused:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/09/obama-these-folks-are-shameless/

Obama's finally attacking Palin with the correct message and tone. Just hammering on the earmark lying wasn't going to fly, and I was worried he'd waste time pressing that case.

"What are they talking about?" Obama asked incredulously. "How do they have the nerve to say it? When you've been supporting this current president, your party has been in power, you are not offering anything new, how is that you're serious about change? You're not! It's just empty words.

"I mean think about it," Obama continued after saying they were trying to adopt the 'change' label because it has worked so well for him. "It was just like a month ago they were all saying 'experience, experience, experience.' Then they chose Palin and started talking about 'change, change, change.' What happened? What happened?"

"I got to admit these folks are shameless," Obama said to cheers from the audience.

"Now she's out there acting like she was fighting this thing the whole time!" Obama laughed. "I mean I'm not perfect," he continued, "but you know what I'm not going to do is, I'm not going describe in an ad that I did something that's the opposite of what I did!"

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 08:08 AM

...I don't understand. The article seems to be about Gov Tony Knowles signing a law protecting victims from such billings. Where does it state anything about Palin?:confused:

This part:

While the Alaska State Troopers and most municipal police agencies have covered the cost of exams, which cost between $300 to $1,200 apiece, the Wasilla police department does charge the victims of sexual assault for the tests.

Adam C

09-09-2008, 08:08 AM

A remarkably passive way to put it.

And how would you put it?

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 08:11 AM

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows the race for the White House is tied once again. John McCain and Barack Obama now each attract 46% of the vote. When "leaners" are included, it’s McCain 48% and Obama 48%.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

FalconX2000

09-09-2008, 08:11 AM

This part:

Ah, Wasilla. Got it.

Matt Doc Martin

09-09-2008, 08:17 AM

Well, Samuel is friends with Rick Olney, that is all you need to know.

He is FORMERLY friends with Rick.

Still not that bright, mind you, but has made some progress.

Sean Walsh

09-09-2008, 08:36 AM

Grazzt

09-09-2008, 08:55 AM

Interesting article on Palin that's critical of the mainstream press (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/06/carney/index.html).

KevinTBrown

09-09-2008, 10:31 AM

The economic differences between Obama and McCain. (http://news.yahoo.com/story//ap/20080908/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_economy)

Royal

09-09-2008, 10:41 AM

http://www.wowowow.com/files/imagecache/530x353/files/slideshow/2008_0903_featured.jpg

Y'know when I saw this, I pretty much knew this was an average 'shop job.

Too bad CNN didn't. (http://gawker.com/5046643/cnn-duped-by-palin-photoshop)

Kevinroc

09-09-2008, 11:08 AM

Here's an important one. Palin is absolutely shameless and this... there's really something wrong with this one...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090803088.html?hpid=topnews

Corrina

09-09-2008, 12:23 PM

Well, none of that was illegal. And I bet it's similar to what past governors have done. I want to be annoyed by it and I'm annoyed but I'm not sure it's anything that damning.

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 12:29 PM

Well, none of that was illegal. And I bet it's similar to what past governors have done. I want to be annoyed by it and I'm annoyed but I'm not sure it's anything that damning.

I imagine it is illegal, actually. Fraud at the very least. British politicians have been forced to go for less.

Michael P

09-09-2008, 12:31 PM

At the very least, it casts aspersions on the idea that she'll be any different from the average Washington politician.

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 12:32 PM

And how would you put it?

I think Black Atom already took that ball up the other end of the field.

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 12:33 PM

At the very least, it casts aspersions on the idea that she'll be any different from the average Washington politician.

I think the Ted Stevens PAC already did that, and the bridge to nowhere, and the 223 million dollars of where did that go again, but it's nice to have some further confirmation.

FalconX2000

09-09-2008, 12:39 PM

While Palin's may be on the heavy side, billing you and your family's travel expenses to the people or organisation you work for is pretty standard. Especially for the well connected, and Palin is at least that much. Its not something that's gonna bring her down.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/09/obama_bush_tinkering_around_th.html

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jXFsXzAHNTomSq3zIBJhoZ4-lIHwD933B6GO1

Obama is on the offensive on middle east foreign policy

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/09/campaign.wrap/

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/09/the_ad_when_they_grow.html

and education.

There is a slightly misleading line about McCain taking money from public schools to pay for corporate tax cuts. Though Paul may argue otherwise, I personally see it more as McCain simply having no damn way to pay for a majority of his programs. All the other stuff is excellent and hard hitting, especially an underused line of attack about McCain advocating the dismantling of the Education Department (something which many Repubs did when they took over congress in the 90s).

His talk on Iraq and Afghanistan is both spot on and phrased in such a way that seems sure to get through to voters.

Matt Doc Martin

09-09-2008, 12:44 PM

Why is the race so tight? Food for thought:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/americandebate/

Too many god damn racist pinheads.:mad:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/americandebate/

If only ANY of these questions get asked by Charles "Softball" Gibson.

Matt Doc Martin

09-09-2008, 12:45 PM

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 12:46 PM

Sad, but I also had no idea.

Please don't think less of me than you already do!

I promise not to. :evilsmile:

Matt Doc Martin

09-09-2008, 12:54 PM

I promise not to. :evilsmile:

The wind up...and the pitch!

Bye bye, softball!

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 12:56 PM

The wind up...and the pitch!

Bye bye, softball!

*saunters round the diamond, picking his nose while whistling a happy tune*

Charles RB

09-09-2008, 01:00 PM

Well, none of that was illegal.

I'd have thought that'd be fraud and would be illegal.

Added to previous allegations of corruption and the fact she overspent when in office, and it adds to a very damning picture of Palin as someone I wouldn't lend money to for a parking meter, let alone let have influence in how a country spends things.

Matt Doc Martin

09-09-2008, 01:05 PM

*saunters round the diamond, picking his nose while whistling a happy tune*

Section 8?

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 01:18 PM

When he wasn't haranguing Barack Obama for supposedly advocating "class warfare," during the segment of their interview that was aired on Monday night, Fox News host Bill O'Reilly was repeating another familiar claim. President Bush's tax cuts, O'Reilly said, have led to a major increase in the federal government's tax revenues. As usual, though, O'Reilly had his facts all wrong. Here's the relevant portion of the interview (video below):

O'REILLY: You and Hillary both, you just want to take my money. And you can have it. I mean, I don't care if I live in a hut. Under President Bush, the federal government derived 20 percent more revenue than under President Clinton. Did you know that?

OBAMA: Well...

O'REILLY: Did you know that?

OBAMA: ...the economy grew, Bill.

O'REILLY: It grew, that's right.

OBAMA: The economy grew. So, of course, the...

O'REILLY: Under President Bush, the economy grew 19 percent more than Clinton. See, this is what I'm not getting with you Democrats.

OBAMA: No, no, no. Hold on a second, Bill. Wait, Bill, hold on a second now. I mean, you know the famous saying about there are lies, damn lies, and statistics?

O'REILLY: Yeah.

OBAMA: Well you and I can -- we can play a statistics game.

O'REILLY: I know, I know, it's bull. I know it is.

OBAMA: So let's be clear on the record. OK? The -- during the Bush administration... there was economic growth. Not as fast as during the 1990s, OK, but there was growth during the Bush administration. But what happened was that wages and incomes for ordinary Americans, the guys who watch your show... Their wages and incomes did not go up.

...

O'REILLY: 20 percent more revenue coming in under Bush than Clinton. All right. He cuts taxes. People invest more. He cuts the capital gains. The government gets 20 percent more than under Clinton. You want to raise it back up. It doesn't make sense.

Now, O'Reilly is technically right. In 2007, the federal government collected 20 percent more tax revenue than it did in the last year of Bill Clinton's administration. But in every meaningful sense, he's way off. Obama got close to refuting O'Reilly's argument, but he didn't go quite far enough.

The numbers O'Reilly apparently relied upon aren't reported in real dollars -- that is, they're not adjusted for inflation. Plug the data into the handy-dandy inflation calculator over at the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Web site and you'll find that in real dollars the actual increase was about five percent.

So, yes, there was an increase. But actually, it was a comparatively small one. If you compare 1992, the last year of George H.W. Bush's administration, to 2000 -- again, making the comparison in real dollars -- you'll find that even in the bad old days of Clinton class warfare revenues shot up more than 30 percent. (And yes, I'm aware that these numbers are not truly good measures, or pure reflections, of the success of a president's tax policies, but this is what O'Reilly used.)

Then there's the question of a few obvious data points O'Reilly didn't bother to mention: First of all, in 2000 the government's tax receipts represented 20.9 percent of the gross domestic product. In 2007, it was 18.8 percent. And, of course, under Clinton the federal government ran a surplus. Now, under Bush, we're back to racking up a big budget deficit every year.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/

Buzz Dixon

09-09-2008, 01:19 PM

[QUOTE=Sabrinaset;7523653]http://www.cagle.com/working/080906/horsey.jpg

why is the TV on the porch?
:confused:So we can see it better.

FalconX2000

09-09-2008, 01:25 PM

Sad, but I also had no idea.

Please don't think less of me than you already do!

Its possible to think less of you than we already do?:confused:

the4thpip

09-09-2008, 01:27 PM

Meawhile, in the Senate race...

According to a Minnesota Public Radio News and Humphrey Institute poll, the DFL endorsed
candidate Al Franken is locked in a close race with incumbent Republican U.S. Senator Norm
Coleman. Forty-one percent support Franken and 40% support Coleman, well within the margin
of error (+/-3.6 percentage points). Eight percent support contending Independence Party
candidate Dean Barkley.
The race is wide open with 11% undecided.

http://www.hhh.umn.edu/centers/cspg/pdf/HHH_MPR_August_Senate.pdf

http://bmac20.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/stuartsmalley.jpg

Matt Doc Martin

09-09-2008, 01:30 PM

Its possible to think less of you than we already do?:confused:

Paul beat ya to it.

better luck next time!

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 01:43 PM

Its possible to think less of you than we already do?:confused:

*saunters past third base, flicks the booger at Falcon*

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 01:44 PM

FalconX2000

09-09-2008, 01:54 PM

Paul beat ya to it.

better luck next time!

Nah, Paul promised not to think less of you. I actively wish to seek out ways to do exactly that.

*saunters past third base, flicks the booger at Falcon*

*glares at tarnished feathers. Flaps off and drops bird poo into Paul's food*

Matt Doc Martin

09-09-2008, 01:59 PM

Nah, Paul promised not to think less of you. I actively wish to seek out ways to do exactly that.

Have you considered active loathing?

Perhaps a voodoo doll?

I can provide a lock of hair to assist.

Now, on with slagging the political party you despise!

Buzz Dixon

09-09-2008, 02:04 PM

http://wondermark.com/comics/441.gif

David O Burcham

09-09-2008, 03:01 PM

Apart from these particular statements, how have you felt about his stump speeches...

I absolutely love to listen to Obama's speeches. Even though I strongly disagree with his politics (waaaay too socialist for my tastes), his speeches have inspired me just as much as John McCain's bravery as a P.O.W.(again, not another guy I agree with politically, especially his direct assault on free speech with McCain-Feingold). The fact that we have an African American running at the top of a party ticket makes me even prouder to be an American (cue Lee Greenwood).

Obama's speeches inspire me to be a better person and a better man. They are right up there with Ronald Reagan's in terms of quality.

...and his debate performance?

His debate performances have been hit and miss for me. He started out really strong. As he started to lose more states to Hilary in the last rounds of the primaries, his bonehead, comedy-gold flubs became much more frequent.

Obama's refusal to do any town-hall style debates with McCain... where his ability to speak off the cuff would be tested the hardest... gives me the impression that even he realizes what a weak, all-around speaker he is.

In a way, I kinda sympathize with him. When I was the president of my local Phi Theta Kappa chapter, I had to do a LOT of public speaking. In a casual atmosphere, I was pretty decent. When I had to read prepared statements, Mel Tillis didn't have shit on me when it came to stuttering.

section 8

09-09-2008, 03:11 PM

Meawhile, in the Senate race...

http://www.hhh.umn.edu/centers/cspg/pdf/HHH_MPR_August_Senate.pdf

http://bmac20.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/stuartsmalley.jpg

i have a similar daily affirmation
i look into the mirror and i say to myself
"you aint shit!
You aint never been shit!
And you aint never gonna amout to shit!!!"

Kevinroc

09-09-2008, 04:53 PM

Here's a good article about polls that you should check out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/poll-madness-mccain-takes_n_125158.html

Paul McEnery

09-09-2008, 05:50 PM

Here's a good article about polls that you should check out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/poll-madness-mccain-takes_n_125158.html

That's very interesting.

So the population has more registered Dems than Pubs, but the make up of the poll population doesn't reflect this.

Which means that the pollsters are deliberately making their polls make McCain look like he's doing better than he is.

I wondered how the polls could be so out of synch with the electoral college poll results.

Infra-Man

09-09-2008, 08:52 PM

I absolutely love to listen to Obama's speeches. Even though I strongly disagree with his politics (waaaay too socialist for my tastes), his speeches have inspired me just as much as John McCain's bravery as a P.O.W.(again, not another guy I agree with politically, especially his direct assault on free speech with McCain-Feingold). The fact that we have an African American running at the top of a party ticket makes me even prouder to be an American (cue Lee Greenwood).

Obama's speeches inspire me to be a better person and a better man. They are right up there with Ronald Reagan's in terms of quality.

His debate performances have been hit and miss for me. He started out really strong. As he started to lose more states to Hilary in the last rounds of the primaries, his bonehead, comedy-gold flubs became much more frequent.

Obama's refusal to do any town-hall style debates with McCain... where his ability to speak off the cuff would be tested the hardest... gives me the impression that even he realizes what a weak, all-around speaker he is.

In a way, I kinda sympathize with him. When I was the president of my local Phi Theta Kappa chapter, I had to do a LOT of public speaking. In a casual atmosphere, I was pretty decent. When I had to read prepared statements, Mel Tillis didn't have shit on me when it came to stuttering.

I agree with you about the way his speeches do bring about something inspiring and I honestly think his debate performances just aren't as strong, and much of it has to do with his delivery when he's debating (at least in 2008, more on that in a bit). He sometimes comes across as mealy mouthed and uncertain because of his delivery and the fact he's constructing his answers as he gives them. I think if he can come across more assertive in his stances, he'd at least win a perception game in terms of his debating style. And he's got to be well rested for these upcoming debates (as unlikely as that may seem). Last thing he needs is a flub from fatigue.

Anyways, the reason I brought up his debate style for the 2008 election is because he was a totally different kind of debater when he ran against Alan Keyes. He was sharp, snappy, to the point, and looked like he was having a good time (probably because he had that election in the bag). The Atlantic recently pointed that out, actually, and I have to agree with their assessment. The article's author basically said if Obama wants to come out on top in these presidential debates, one of the main things he needs to do is treat a debate with John McCain like a debate with Alan Keyes.

We'll see how that works out at the end of the month.

KevinTBrown

09-09-2008, 10:08 PM

Sarah Palin: Serial Liar (http://www.democrats.com/call-sarah-palin-a-serial-liar)

BnL

09-10-2008, 12:33 AM

Sarah Palin: Serial Liar (http://www.democrats.com/call-sarah-palin-a-serial-liar)

Yes, she is. But don't expect the media to call her on it. Her interview with Charles Gibson is going to have no substance. He'll ask her a few questions, she'll lie in her answers, and he won't ever challenge her. Then the Republicans will hail it as a huge success, and proof that Palin is ready for the national stage.

I think the only way to draw broader attention to Palin's constant lies is for some sort of highly publicized civilian demonstration or event, which will basically force the media to cover the issue.

PatrickG

09-10-2008, 12:49 AM

What I want to know is why the media isn't willing to be seen as a vicious attack dog?

Every journalist seems to pride themselves and sell themselves on being hard-hitting but then they run and cry like children when somebody calls them bad names.

I think we have too many pretty people in journalism and not enough gritty people.

IMHO, the perfect journalist is someone who is NOT beloved and probably someone who is highly paranoid and shows it. Take what Bill O'Reilly is to the left, apply it to the left AND right and babies and old people and rich people and minorities and the handicapped and get him a fact checker who has a shock collar attached to him if he distorts facts on-air and that's pretty much what I want out of a television journalist.

I want journalists twice as bitter as Kurt Vonnegut and twice as angry as Lewis Black and half as sociable as Richard Nixon. And I want that 24-7.

And I want to see those journalists do a cage match against the whiny sissies we have on the air now.

the4thpip

09-10-2008, 01:47 AM

NBC poll shows Obama reclaiming a narrow lead. (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/080909_NBC-WSJ_Released.pdf)

Paul McEnery

09-10-2008, 02:05 AM

I want journalists twice as bitter as Kurt Vonnegut and twice as angry as Lewis Black and half as sociable as Richard Nixon. And I want that 24-7.
.

*waves*

Hello!

Now, are you sure you want that? :biggrin:

Tages

09-10-2008, 02:18 AM

Hmmmn, maybe I should get back to journalism school and practice my drinking problem.

Or is it get back to drinking school and practice my journalism?

BnL

09-10-2008, 03:29 AM

The McCain camp continues to pitifully grasp at straws: (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/a-piggish-debat.html)

Tonight Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said of McCain painting himself as a change agent, "You know, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."

.............

And yet, the inaugural conference call of what the McCain-Palin campaign is calling the "Palin Truth Squad" addressed Obama's remark.

And interestingly, the Truth Squad call was full of half-truths and statements that weren't true at all.

Speaking on behalf of the McCain campaign, former Massachusetts Gov. Jane Swift tonight flatly stated that Obama had called Palin a pig.

"[T]he formation of the Palin Truth Squad couldn't have happened too soon, as we saw when Sen. Obama in Lebanon, Va., this evening uttered what I can only deem to be disgraceful comments comparing our vice presidential nominee Gov. Palin to a pig," Swift said.

"Sen. Obama owes Gov. Palin an apology," she said.

Asked why she was so confident Obama was "comparing" Palin to a pig, she said Palin was the only one of the four candidates on both parties' tickets who wears lipstick.

"She is the only one of the four candidates for president, or the only vice presidential candidate who wears lipstick," Swift said. "I mean, it seemed to me a very gendered comment."

..........

It was pointed out to Swift that, after the line about the pig, Obama had said, "You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called 'change,' it's still gonna stink after eight years."

Swift then suggested that Obama was calling McCain a fish.

"I have a fourth-grader and two second-graders at home," she said. "I would not teach them that this is sort of a high-minded debate on policy issues when they are calling people rotten old fish or a pig. In fact, it sounds a lot like some of the least intelligent debates on the playground sound like at our elementary school."

A reporter then reminded Swift that in December, McCain was asked about criticisms coming his way from then-opponent Gov. Mitt Romney, R-Mass., and McCain replied, "Never get into a wrestling match with a pig. You both get dirty, and the pig likes it."

Was McCain calling Romney a pig? a reporter asked Swift.

Of course not, Swift said.

BnL

09-10-2008, 03:53 AM

A Judge warned Sarah Palin and family members to stop harassing and disparaging her former brother-in-law, three years ago: (http://www.newsweek.com/id/158140)

Court records obtained by NEWSWEEK show that during the course of divorce hearings three years ago, Judge John Suddock heard testimony from an official of the Alaska State Troopers' union about how Sarah Palin—then a private citizen—and members of her family, including her father and daughter, lodged up to a dozen complaints against Wooten with the state police. The union official told the judge that he had never before been asked to appear as a divorce-case witness, that the union believed family complaints against Wooten were "not job-related," and that Wooten was being "harassed" by Palin and other family members.

................

"It is the mother's [Hackett's] responsibility to set boundaries for her relatives and insure [sic] they respect them, and the disparagement by either parent, or their surrogates is emotional child abuse," Judge Suddock wrote. He added that: "If the court finds it is necessary due to disparagement in the Mat-Su Valley [the area north of Anchorage where Palin and her extended family live], for the children's best interests, it [the court] will not hesitate to order custody to the father and a move into Anchorage." Cyr, the union official, said that to his knowledge, no such move was ever ordered.

Well, it's now three years later. Guess she didn't take the court's warning to heart, eh?