2008 U.S. Presidential Election Mega thread

[KevinTBrown]

Obama's acceptance speech had an audience of 38 million+ viewers.... Nearly double that of John Kerry's acceptance speech.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080829/ap_on_en_tv/cvn_obama_s_audience

[KevinTBrown]

Interesting little article about where the Democrats can key in on Palin: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12987.html

This one I found particularly interesting: And, maybe, censorship. According to the Frontiersman newspaper, Wasilla’s library director, Mary Ellen Emmons, said that Palin asked her outright if she "could live with censorship of library books.” Palin later dismissed the conversation as a “rhetorical” exercise.

[FalconX2000]

True dat.

However, it is easier to spin the experience chant since McCain headlines the ticket.

McCain can easily argue that having an inexperienced vice-president is a MUCH different thing than having an inexperienced president.

Hell, even look at the response by the Obama camp. "McCain has put a former mayor of only 9000 one step away from the presidency".

Um, that's STILL better than putting a person RIGHT into the presidency, no?

That's a horrible response. It should have read something like:

"McCain has selected a far right neocon Republican to be his running mate. Sarah Palin represents a continuation of the Dick Cheney beliefs that have ruined the lives of so many Americans over the last 8 years and is even less qualified than George Bush was when he ran for office. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will continue to carry the message of change across this country."

[LtMarvel]

Pailn's a lightweight and a bit of a cutie, but I sure wouldn't want to be her ex-brother in law.


Investigation Dogs Alaska Governor (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWi6yTVfPyJeiTBsQ33SSUiobt8wD92I9NIO0)
If what I heard is true, I wouldn't want to be her sister due to that ex brother in law.

[Suzanne]

Obama kicked ass light night. It's about time a Democratic Pres. nominee grew a pair. I'll watch some of the GOP convention just to see how on earth they counter him. As for Palin, she exciting, but she's also a social conservative, which is a big turn-off for me.

[Samurai]

For those that say the PUMAS don't matter, this thread on HillaryClintonForum.com had 547 posts and nearly 47,000 views in the space of 1 day, and it's 99% positive for Palin, enthusiastically so...

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179

[Samurai]

So, which do you think would make the better avatar?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/mizejess/nope.jpg

http://katysconservativecorner.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/21/snob.jpg

[kingdom2000]

I think the Onion provided the best response (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/portrayal_of_obama_as_elitist)to that snob silliness especially since its coming from a multimillionaire that never worked a none goverment position, that married into inherited money and doesn't even seem to be aware of how much he owns because has to much to track. Only the republicans could pull off that trick and have people like sam and bri eat it up and not notice the irony.

"In the past black people was seen as ignorant or dangersous. Now today a black man is seen as too good for people is seen as a huge step forward. Oh yes I never thought I would see the day an old white millionaire is viewed as having more in common with the working folks then the black man. Its a proud day for America. I remember there was a time when a white person would see a black man on the street and cross to the other side for fear of he would get mugged...now he crosses out fear of being asked to donate to PBS. You really have to give credit to the American people for being able to look past Obama's skin color to see the Harvard educated smartass underneath."

[kingdom2000]

For those that say the PUMAS don't matter, this thread on HillaryClintonForum.com had 547 posts and nearly 47,000 views in the space of 1 day, and it's 99% positive for Palin, enthusiastically so...

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179


I don't dismiss it. People choice is often done for really stupid ass reasons. He seems nice. Oh he's handsome. Reminds me of someone. Even "he's black" isn't a valid reason. So yeah I can see a lot of people voting for McCain because he has Vagina...err I mean Palin as a running mate.

[FalconX2000]

So, which do you think would make the better avatar?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/mizejess/nope.jpg

http://katysconservativecorner.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/21/snob.jpg

The former is actually amusing. I'd go with that.

I'm impressed the media isn't burying the investigation Palin is under. They're not going overboard, but they're giving it some coverage the day after the announcement.

[Tages]

So, which do you think would make the better avatar?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h219/mizejess/nope.jpg

http://katysconservativecorner.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/21/snob.jpg

The latter one only works if you're using it ironically.

[Royal]

Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you

-Dan Fried

[the4thpip]

He keeps on doing this, doesn't he?

Van Halen band members were less than thrilled that Sen. John McCain's campaign chose their song "Right Now" to precede his entrance for a Friday speech in Ohio unveiling his newly chosen running mate,
TMZ.com reported.

In fact, management for the band said that McCain didn't ask for permission to use the song.

"Permission was not sought or granted nor would it have been given," a spokesman for the band said.

According to TMZ, "the band wants to make one thing clear -- they're not running with McCain."

[TomStillwell]

Yesterday the McCain campaign told the press that John McCain meet Sarah Palin for the first time just briefly six months ago and didn't actually speak with her again until last week when he offered Palin the VP spot.

Talk about a booty call...

[Royal]

He keeps on doing this, doesn't he?

Van Halen band members were less than thrilled that Sen. John McCain's campaign chose their song "Right Now" to precede his entrance for a Friday speech in Ohio unveiling his newly chosen running mate,
TMZ.com reported.

In fact, management for the band said that McCain didn't ask for permission to use the song.

"Permission was not sought or granted nor would it have been given," a spokesman for the band said.

According to TMZ, "the band wants to make one thing clear -- they're not running with McCain."

No Attribution or Permission?

Aren't we supposed to lock him up now for being a Pirate under DMCA?

[KevinTBrown]

Hmmmm, Palin knowingly hired a person under investigation for sexual harrassment for, now get this, public safety commissioner:

http://www.ktuu.com/global/story.asp?s=8712164

[FalconX2000]

Nationalism ... is like cheap alcohol. First it makes you drunk, then it makes you blind, then it kills you

-Dan Fried

I object. Alcohol does that regardless of price.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Yesterday the McCain campaign told the press that John McCain meet Sarah Palin for the first time just briefly six months ago and didn't actually speak with her again until last week when he offered Palin the VP spot.

Talk about a booty call...

ba-dum-dum-tish

[Matt Doc Martin]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12997.html (6 things the Palin pick says about McCain)

Great article showing just how bad/sad this pick is.

[JKCarrier]

John McCain, Hound Dog (http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/410718.html):

Seriously, what in the f*ck is it with John McCain and beauty queens? His first wife, Carol Shepp McCain, was a swimwear model. But she got into an automobile accident and became only normally attractive, so he cheated on her with a 17 years younger beauty pageant winner named Cindy Hensley, whom he ended up divorcing Carol for and marrying. Then she got to be middle aged and a little plastic looking, and what do you know, McCain starts being seen everywhere he goes with, and doing some potentially lucrative favors for, a cheerleader turned lobbyist, named Vicki Iseman, who's 13 years younger than Cindy. He gets outed on that, cuts off ties with her, and then a couple of months later (after viciously humiliating his wife in front of a group of bikers, to her face) he picks as his "running mate" yet another beauty pageant winner who's almost half his age.

[Adam C]

For those that say the PUMAS don't matter, this thread on HillaryClintonForum.com had 547 posts and nearly 47,000 views in the space of 1 day, and it's 99% positive for Palin, enthusiastically so...

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179

Yup, because an internet forum (and an independent one not associated with the candidate no less) is a totally reliable, even scientific way to judge the size of a particular political group.

[TomStillwell]

Here's a good blog with a local perspective on Palin.

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

This post is particularly informative:

Alaskans really want to like Sarah Palin. In a state where corruption is the rule, and the same faces keep recycling over and over and over again like a bad dream, a new face, with a promise of reform seemed like a breath of fresh air. Palin defeated incumbent governor Frank Murkowski (father of Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski who he appointed to his own Senate seat when he was elected governor) because he was such an obnoxious, bloviating, downright BAD politician. This staunchly republican state voted with relief, not having to cross over and vote Democratic, but still able to get Murkowski the hell out of office. In the general election Palin swept into office running against a former Democratic governor, Tony Knowles, who was capable but came with baggage. And he represented to Alaskans more of the same, tired old-style politics, and special interests that we have come to loathe.

So, if McCain had made his selection six months ago, the squeaky-clean governor meme would have made a little more sense. But, Sarah Palin is currently under an ethics investigation by the Alaska state legislature. The details of this investigation read like a trashy novel, and I suspect that the players will soon have newfound celebrity on the national stage. I'll try to explain for all you non-Alaskans who suddenly have good reason to want to know more about Sarah Palin. For those of you not interested in trashy novels, feel free to skip ahead. Here it is...what we in Alaska call "TrooperGate".

Sarah Palin's sister Molly married a guy named Mike Wooten who is an Alaska State Trooper. Mike and Molly had a rocky marriage. When the marriage broke up, there was a bitter custody fight that is still ongoing. During the custody investigation, all sorts of things were brought up about Wooten including the fact that he had illegally shot a moose (yes folks this is Alaska), driven drunk, and used a taser (on the test setting, he reminds us) on his 11-year old stepson, who supposedly had asked to see what it felt like. While Wooten has turned out to be a less than stellar figure, the fact that Palin's father accompanied him on the infamous moose hunt, and that many of the dozens of charges brought up by the Palin family happened long before they were ever reported smacked of desperate custody fight. Wooten's story is that he was basically stalked by the family.

After all this, Wooten was investigated and disciplined on two counts and allowed to kept his position with the troopers. Enter Walt Monegan, Palin's appointed new chief of the Department of Public Safety and head of the troopers. Monegan was beloved by the troopers, did a bang-up job with minimal funding and suddenly got axed. Palin was out of town and Monegan got "offered another job" (aka fired) with no explanation to Alaskans. Pressure was put on the governor to give details, because rumors started to swirl around the fact that the highly respected Monegan was fired because he refused to fire the aforementioned Mike Wooten. Palin vehemently denied ever talking to Monegan or pressuring Monegan in any way to fire Wooten, or that anyone on her staff did. Over the weeks it has come out that not only was pressure applied, there were literally dozens of conversations in which pressure was applied to fire him. Monegan has testified to this fact, spurring an ongoing investigation by the Alaska state legislature. But, before this investigation got underway, Palin sent the Alaska State Attorney General out to do some investigative work of his own so she could find out in advance what the real investigation was going to find. (No, I'm not making this up). The AG interviewed several people, unbeknownst to the actual appointed investigator or the Legislature! Palin's investigation of herself uncovered a recorded phone call retained by the Alaska State Troopers from Frank Bailey, a Palin underling, putting pressure on a trooper about the Wooten non-firing. Todd Palin (governor's husband) even talked to Monegan himself in Palin's office while she was away. Bailey is now on paid administrative leave.

As if this weren't enough, Monegan's appointed replacement Chuck Kopp, turns out to have been the center of his own little scandal. He received a letter of reprimand and was reassigned after sexual harrassment allegations by a former coworker who didn't like all the unwanted kissing and hugging in the office. Was he vetted? Obviously not. When he was questioned about all this, his comment was that no one had asked him and he thought they all knew. Kopp, defiant, still claimed to have done nothing wrong and said to the press that there was no way he was stepping down from his new position. Twenty four hours later, he stepped down. Later it was uncovered that he received a $10,000 severance package for his two weeks on the job from Palin. Monegan got nothing.

After extensive news coverage about all this nasty behind-the-scenes scandal, which is definitely NOT squeaky clean, Palin's approval ratings fell to 67%, still high, but a far cry from the 90% number that's being thrown around so glibly by the Republicans today. Alaskans are quickly becoming disillusioned once again.

[Grazzt]

For those that say the PUMAS don't matter, this thread on HillaryClintonForum.com had 547 posts and nearly 47,000 views in the space of 1 day, and it's 99% positive for Palin, enthusiastically so...

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179

You do realise that part of the reason for all the views is because it was linked by a bunch of news sites? And that even if every single person who viewed the thread was going to ditch the Democrats for McCain (which is a big if, considering that some of those views might just be people who want to check out the stupidity of those sorts of hardcore Hillary supporters first hand), there wouldn't be enough to turn a single state?

[KevinTBrown]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12997.html (6 things the Palin pick says about McCain)

Great article showing just how bad/sad this pick is.

Here's the better link: http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=2&threadid=1268618

[Buzz Dixon]

For those that say the PUMAS don't matter, this thread on HillaryClintonForum.com had 547 posts and nearly 47,000 views in the space of 1 day, and it's 99% positive for Palin, enthusiastically so...

http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179And those 547 posts represent...what...6 actual posters?

If, God forbid, something were to happen to President Obama, President Biden would at least let the country feel there were in capable hands.

If, God forbid, something were to happen to President McCain, President Palin would be cast adrift amid a sea of sharks.

And I'm talking about the Republican Party apparatchiks who would be surrounding her.

The irony is, if Palin had come to national attention first by some terms in Congress or the Senate, her unconventional background -- as unconventional and yet as wholly American as Obama's -- might have served her well in attracting positive attention. Now it's just going to be grist for the comedy circuit.

[KevinTBrown]

And those 547 posts represent...what...6 actual posters?

If, God forbid, something were to happen to President Obama, President Biden would at least let the country feel there were in capable hands.

If, God forbid, something were to happen to President McCain, President Palin would be cast adrift amid a sea of sharks.

And I'm talking about the Republican Party apparatchiks who would be surrounding her.

The irony is, if Palin had come to national attention first by some terms in Congress or the Senate, her unconventional background -- as unconventional and yet as wholly American as Obama's -- might have served her well in attracting positive attention. Now it's just going to be grist for the comedy circuit.

Nearly 36 million people voted in the Democratic primaries.

Over 38 million (plus the 80,000 at the stadium) watched Obama's acceptance speech.



And Samurai is basing his logic (let me get this correct now) on 6 people???? :eek:


Uh, yeahhhhhhh.... makes sense. :confused:


By the way, and something everyone should be made aware of, LESS Republicans voted in the primaries than watched Obama's speech. Way less.... way, way, way less. 20 million less... making it 18.5 million voting in the Republican primaries.

Oh, and McCain barely got 47% of that vote.

[Samurai]

Nearly 36 million people voted in the Democratic primaries.

Over 38 million (plus the 80,000 at the stadium) watched Obama's acceptance speech.



And Samurai is basing his logic (let me get this correct now) on 6 people???? :eek:


Uh, yeahhhhhhh.... makes sense. :confused:


By the way, and something everyone should be made aware of, LESS Republicans voted in the primaries than watched Obama's speech. Way less.... way, way, way less. 20 million less... making it 18.5 million voting in the Republican primaries.

Oh, and McCain barely got 47% of that vote.
No, not "6 people"... Buzz is being sarcastic. There are hundreds of people on that thread and the board as a whole supporting McCain/Palin. Try actually checking for yourself next time before taking a sarcastic quip as accurate.

[Spiffy]

Charlie Rose appearance from last year by Sarah Palin. Not a very long clip though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbSlc4XGGnk

[KevinTBrown]

No, not "6 people"... Buzz is being sarcastic. There are hundreds of people on that thread and the board as a whole supporting McCain/Palin. Try actually checking for yourself next time before taking a sarcastic quip as accurate.

When you start checking facts, so will we all.....

[Grazzt]

No, not "6 people"... Buzz is being sarcastic. There are hundreds of people on that thread and the board as a whole supporting McCain/Palin. Try actually checking for yourself next time before taking a sarcastic quip as accurate.

Yeah, hundreds...which is still not enough to give them the election. Like I said, even if everybody who viewed that thread was someone who voted for Hillary but was switching to McCain, it's hardly enough to even be felt.

[Corrina]

Charlie Rose appearance from last year by Sarah Palin. Not a very long clip though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbSlc4XGGnk

Thanks, Spiffy.
Damn, that's one big-ass flag pin.
Anywho....

Interesting clip. She's presentable and makes her points well, though Charlie isn't the toughest of interviews. Though I disagree with her on what the biggest issue in the election is. The biggest issue is the economy. I agree that getting off foreign oil is important. The problem with McCain on that is that I looked way before gas prices started going skyward.

Both Obama and H. Clinton had detailed and careful energy strategies to get us off foreign oil and seek alternate sources.

McCain had squat at that point. He's changed his mind a bit since but I sure don't trust an obviously pandering tournabout. I'm sticking with the people who were concerned before it became such a hot political football.

[Samurai]

When you start checking facts, so will we all.....

Nice to hear you admit your hypocrisy in asking me to do something you refuse to do yourself.

[section 8]

Sam's Got ya there

[FalconX2000]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12997.html (6 things the Palin pick says about McCain)

Great article showing just how bad/sad this pick is.

No link. The page cannot be displayed.



Or was that the point?:tongue:

Here's a good blog with a local perspective on Palin.

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

This post is particularly informative:

...Wow. That's alot more concrete than I expected.

[Kevinroc]

Sam's Got ya there

Not really. They were exaggerating for comedic purposes, Sam wasn't.

[Sabrinaset]

Nice to hear you admit your hypocrisy in asking me to do something you refuse to do yourself.

Nice to hear you admit you haven't been doing so.

And now, for more election/convention news ...

The Reverend Michael Moore says a hurricane coming towards the GOP Convention is proof there is a God in Heaven! (http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080830000004.aspx) Yep, he's right up there with Sharon Stone and Jerry Falwell ... take it away, Michael!

Sometime you really have wonder at what cost some are willing to see their political ideology advanced. To liberal documentary filmmaker Michael Moore, the bounds are seemingly endless. Moore has made a recent career out of attacking President George W. Bush, bashing conservatives and criticizing business. His latest outrage occurred on MSNBC’s August 29 “Countdown with Keith Olbermann” and when he commented about the coincidental timing of an unfortunate disaster – the potential for Hurricane Gustav to make landfall at the beginning of the Republican National Convention in St. Paul, Minn.

“I was just thinking, this Gustav is proof that there is a God in heaven,” Moore said, laughing. “To have it planned at the same time – that it would actually be on its way to New Orleans for day one of the Republican Convention, up in the Twin Cities – at the top of the Mississippi River.”

After that comment, Moore backed off a bit and did say he hoped nobody got hurt and he hoped everybody is taking cover. However, he failed to make note of the $43.625 billion in damage the last hurricane to strike New Orleans caused – Hurricane Katrina in 2005 – and the billions of dollars the storm cost taxpayers.

Apparently, Gustav COULD be a big opportunity for the GOP ... although there's big risks too... (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/29/america/2katrina.php)

Obama explains his choice, reacts to Palin. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/30/60minutes/main4400811.shtml)

"What do you think of Senator McCain's vice presidential choice? And how does it change the dynamics of this campaign?" Kroft asked.

"Well, I don't know Governor Palin, I have not met her before. I had a brief conversation with her after she was selected to congratulate her and wish her luck - but, not too much luck! - on the campaign trial. And she seems to have a compelling life story. Obviously, she's a fine mother and a up-and-coming public servant," Obama said. "So, it's too early for me to gauge what kind of running mate she'll be.

"My sense is that she subscribes to John McCain's agenda. And ultimately, this [election] is going to be about where I want to take the country and where Joe Biden wants to take the country, and where John McCain and his running mate want to take the country."

6 things the Palin pick says about McCain (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12997.html)

Palin Makes Good First Impression: Is Viewed More Favorably than Biden (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_makes_good_first_impression_is_viewed_more_f avorably_than_biden)

Sarah Palin has made a good first impression. Before being named as John McCain’s running mate, 67% of voters didn’t know enough about the Alaska governor to have an opinion. After her debut in Dayton and a rush of media coverage, a new Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that 53% now have a favorable opinion of Palin while just 26% offer a less flattering assessment.

Palin earns positive reviews from 78% of Republicans, 26% of Democrats and 63% of unaffiliated voters. Obviously, these numbers will be subject to change as voters learn more about her in the coming weeks. Among all voters, 29% have a Very Favorable opinion of Palin while 9% hold a Very Unfavorable view.

By way of comparison, on the day he was selected as Barack Obama’s running mate, Delaware Senator Joseph Biden was viewed favorably by 43% of voters.

[Infra-Man]

The problem of like-minded blogs or message boards--whether it be the PUMA PAC, hillaryis44, Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, Daily Kos, Crooks and Liars, etc.--is that they are ideological echo chambers, and in some instances their appeal is limited.

For instance, this post on Daily Kos (and yes, I know I previously undercut them, but that's because they often deserve it) found that:

The 100,000 posts [on hillaryis44.com as of May 24, 2008] were written by 310 users. That is NOT a typo. Three hundred and ten users wrote all 100,000 posts. The most prolific user posted 7170 times. The top 20 users have posted 45% off all posts and 24 users have posted half of all posts. 171 users are "regulars", where regulars are defined as having posted 20+ times, the regulars have posted more than 99% of all posts.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/24/163437/416/562/522170

I'd assume the number has grown, though it's hard to say since they moderate posts so stringently that the only people who can post on hillaryis44 are hardcore Hillary supporters, ones that will never voice an opposing opinion. A lot of people have tried to get accounts there to post, but have been denied. They have silenced all other points of view, thus amplifying a singular point of view.

So we have an echo chamber, and everything bounces off the walls and seems magnified and multiplied when in fact there may only be a relatively meager amount of voices (and select voices at that) that are supplying all the noise. And those voices, like the jacketed mooks in a nuthouse, all think they're sane and right because they've found other crazy people, other mooks in straitjackets, who see the world the same way.

[Infra-Man]

Palin Makes Good First Impression: Is Viewed More Favorably than Biden (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_makes_good_first_impression_is_viewed_more_f avorably_than_biden)

Young, attractive, likable former beauty queen vs. old, garrulous, fiery multi-term Senator.

Of course she's viewed more favorably, and she's something shiny and new.

[KevinTBrown]

Nice to hear you admit your hypocrisy in asking me to do something you refuse to do yourself.

Sam's Got ya there

I'm more likely to BELIEVE what someone else says than I would with Sam.....

Not really. They were exaggerating for comedic purposes, Sam wasn't.

And at least one person understood. :smile:

[Sabrinaset]

I dunno Kevin, I think they deserve each other.

[Sabrinaset]

Here's a few more stories in the news ...

Cindy McCain tells Stephanopolous: 'I'm offended by Obama's Speech' (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/cindy-mccain-te.html)

Campaigns Shift as McCain Choice Alters the Race (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31campaign.html?_r=2&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin)

An interesting page with a few stories detailing how far in the tank MSNBC is for Obama. (http://newsbusters.org/)

[the4thpip]

Here's a few more stories in the news ...


An interesting page with a few stories detailing how far in the tank MSNBC is for Obama. (http://newsbusters.org/)

I stopped reading that artcile when they called Bill Maher "far left" in the first paragraph.

[Matt Doc Martin]

No link. The page cannot be displayed.



Or was that the point?:tongue:










6 things the Palin pick says about McCain (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12997.html)
[/URL]


THERE it is.

[KevinTBrown]

THERE it is.

Ahem.

Here's the better link: http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=2&threadid=1268618

:biggrin:

[Sabrinaset]

I stopped reading that artcile when they called Bill Maher "far left" in the first paragraph.

All right, I'll quote the interesting part for you ...

I think there is a problem, though, with the media gushing over him too much. I don't think he thinks that he's all that, but the media does. I mean, the coverage after, that I was watching, from MSNBC, I mean these guys were ready to have sex with him....It's embarrassing.

There's also a playable bit there too.

Under the banner of "BREAKING NEWS," MSNBC put on the screen, "How many houses does Palin add to the Republican ticket?"

http://themediareport.com/aug2008/msnbc-083108-palin-houses.JPG

The irony is kinda amusing considering O'Reilly was offended by it! Still, looks like MSNBC has become the FOX channel for liberal daleks.

[the4thpip]

With the difference that liberal salon.com actually makes fun of MSNBC:

MSNBC's meltdown

So "Jerry Springer" it's not, but MSNBC's coverage of the Democratic convention has often seemed a lot like one of Springer's old-time episodes of hair-pulling, shirt-ripping, expletive-dropping, diaper-wearing transvestites and the women who love them fun.

OK, that's an exaggeration. But the recent, widely publicized on-air disputes among MSNBC's anchors are grabbing headlines.

Let's start at the beginning. Huffington Post has compiled a handy round-by-round guide of the pundit bouts, the first of which occurred Monday when Keith Olbermann derisively told conservative Joe Scarborough to "get a shovel" after Scarborough claimed presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain was gaining in national polls.

Then came perhaps the biggest blowup of the entire week, a nearly 10-minute exchange Tuesday during which Scarborough and David Shuster yelled back and forth. Scarborough concluded the discussion by calling Shuster "Rip Van Shuster" and saying, "Shuster, I have no idea what you're talking about ... Have you been sleeping the past couple months? ... Do you never watch this show? ... You usually sleep through this show because you didn't show up three times in a row ... Somebody got into some bad acid at the protests and this conversation turned terribly wrong."

Not to be outdone, Chris Matthews then got into the act Tuesday. While House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer waited to be interviewed, first Matthews yelled to someone off-camera that he would "wrap in a second." Then, after Olbermann introduced Hoyer, Matthews went after his coanchor, saying, "You made that sound, Keith. I can do the same to you. That's what I thought and I said it."

Finally (at least for now), Wednesday night, after Republican pundit Mike Murphy opined that he believed Hillary Clinton would vote for John McCain, Olbermann said loudly, "Let's wrap him up, all right?"

Add to these incidents MSNBC's horrible decision to position its outdoor set in front of Denver's Union Station, so that both train whistles and screaming protesters frequently interrupt its broadcasts, and you have a television meltdown on your hands. And it comes at an awful time -- right in the middle of one of the network's most important spans of coverage for the entire year.

The Politico and the Wall Street Journal have documented the on-air grudge matches in articles over the past two days. The Politico quotes an anonymous "high-ranking MSNBC journalist" as saying, "The situation at our channel is about to blow up." And the Wall Street Journal quotes former MSNBC host and "CBS Evening News" coanchor Connie Chung, who said, "My reaction to that is: 'Grow up!' They have to just grow up."

Despite all the attention the spats have received in the media, however, MSNBC president Phil Griffin doesn't seem worried. "Look, I want honest, authentic people on our air. I don't want phonies. So if the price of that is every once in a while one of these bubbles up, I'm not concerned," he told the Wall Street Journal. And Griffin told the Politico that "this is our team. They've served us well. We love 'em, and we're going to be at the Republican convention, and it's going to be great. And I don't have any hesitation."

And what about MSNBC's ratings? While it has improved on the ratings front during the convention, it still trails CNN and Fox News overall for convention coverage.

Also, doesn't exactly sound like MSNB was speaking with one, pro-Obama voice there, does it?

[Infra-Man]

David Frum has some jitters about Palin, as seen on this post on National Review

http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=M2VhOWE0N2VkOWI3MDdlODRlZWE4ODljMDc2NjliZDk=

The longer I think about it, the less well this selection sits with me. And I increasingly doubt that it will prove good politics. The Palin choice looks cynical. The wires are showing.

John McCain wanted a woman: good.

He wanted to keep conservatives and pro-lifers happy: naturally.

He wanted someone who looked young and dynamic: smart.

And he discovered that he could not reconcile all these imperatives with the stated goal of finding a running mate qualified to assume the duties of the presidency "on day one."

Sarah Palin may well have concealed inner reservoirs of greatness. I hope so! But I'd guess that John McCain does not have a much better sense of who she is, what she believes, and the extent of her abilities than my enthusiastic friends over at the Corner. It's a wild gamble, undertaken by our oldest ever first-time candidate for president in hopes of changing the board of this election campaign. Maybe it will work. But maybe (and at least as likely) it will reinforce a theme that I'd be pounding home if I were the Obama campaign: that it's John McCain for all his white hair who represents the risky choice, while it is Barack Obama who offers cautious, steady, predictable governance.

Here's I fear the worst harm that may be done by this selection. The McCain campaign's slogan is "country first." It's a good slogan, and it aptly describes John McCain, one of the most self-sacrificing, gallant, and honorable men ever to seek the presidency.

But question: If it were your decision, and you were putting your country first, would you put an untested small-town mayor a heartbeat away from the presidency?

[Sabrinaset]

With the difference that liberal salon.com actually makes fun of MSNBC:

Also, doesn't exactly sound like MSNB was speaking with one, pro-Obama voice there, does it?

But it's almost a crime NOT to make fun of MSNBC nowadays!

And I haven't watched FOX in awhile, but I'm fairly sure that not all the on-air talent is Conservative there ... my guess is that Greta isn't voting for McCain, for instance, and certainly not Colmes. Also, that last link isn't working ... is CBR having another server meltdown?

[Infra-Man]

But it's almost a crime NOT to make fun of MSNBC nowadays!

I have to say, the snippiness displayed by Keith Olbermann and Joe Scarborough and Chris Matthews of late makes for comedy gold.

And I admit.... I watch Hardball just to mock Chris "I WILL TAWK OVAH MY GUESTS N FWOF ADDA MOUF" Matthews.

[Trench]

That Mudflats blog is very revealing. Lots of shocked, unhappy and thrilled Alaskans about this, both Republican and Democrats. But she does have a high approval rating.

[FalconX2000]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003844485

I don't trust any single poll but...Americans actually might have an inkling of a brain regarding Palin.

[the4thpip]

Should we play along?


http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/palintwitter.jpg

[Kevinroc]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003844485

I don't trust any single poll but...Americans actually might have an inkling of a brain regarding Palin.

I'm curious at this 9% of Obama supporters that claim that Palin will make them more likely to vote for McCain. What world are they in?

Still, it's nice to know the initial reaction is rather negative.

[KevinTBrown]

I'm curious at this 9% of Obama supporters that claim that Palin will make them more likely to vote for McCain. What world are they in?

Still, it's nice to know the initial reaction is rather negative.

"More likely", not that they would.

[Kevinroc]

"More likely", not that they would.

Even the inclination of "more likely" feels like a rather strange statement given how vastly unqualified Palin is to be VP.

[KevinTBrown]

I just bought this t-shirt:

http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/files/images_backup/obama.jpg

Brian Crowley will tell you I wanted to buy one at the Chicago Con, but they sold out. Now is the time to get one.... :smile:

Here's the link: http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=63596&cat=

[section 8]

SO the ones with Obama on the cross were sold out huh?

That's it! I'm writting in "Gary Coleman"

[Infra-Man]

For all you Obama hipsters, the band The National has this shirt available on their website:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2260/mrnovemberoj9.jpg (http://www.merchco-online.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=506_518)

The song "Mr. November" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhNdCxhK28)
This is nothing like it was in my room
In my best clothes
Trying to think of you
This is nothing like it was in my room
In my best clothes

The English are waiting
And I don't know what to do
In my best clothes
This is when I need you

The English are waiting
And I don't know what to do
In my best clothes

I'm the new blue blood, I'm the great white hope
I'm the new blue blood

I won't fuck us over, I'm Mr. November
I'm Mr. November, I won't fuck us over
[repeat]

I wish that I believed in fate
I wish I didn't sleep so late
I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders
[repeat]

I'm the new blue blood, I'm the great white hope
I'm the new blue blood

I won't fuck us over, I'm Mr. November
I'm Mr. November, I won't fuck us over
[repeat]

I wish that I believed in fate
I wish I didn't sleep so late
I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders
[repeat]

I'm the new blue blood, I'm the great white hope
I'm the new blue blood
I won't fuck us over, I'm Mr. November
I'm Mr. November, I won't fuck us over

[rick]

No, not "6 people"... Buzz is being sarcastic. There are hundreds of people on that thread and the board as a whole supporting McCain/Palin. Try actually checking for yourself next time before taking a sarcastic quip as accurate.


Anyone out there really believe that PUMA is anything but a Republican front group, playing at being Democrats?

I for one would love to see who the heads of the organization donated money to over the last couple of elections.

[Crowley]

I just bought this t-shirt:

http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/files/images_backup/obama.jpg

Brian Crowley will tell you I wanted to buy one at the Chicago Con, but they sold out. Now is the time to get one.... :smile:

Here's the link: http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=63596&cat=

aw yeah... those are nice... Norton scored one.

[Corrina]

Those shirts with Obama as Superman make me nervous. I'm cynical enough that I dislike the hero-worship that it entails.

I'm definitely going to vote for him, I'm definitely willing to give him a shot and he almost made me believe he can fix things with that speech last night. He's run an excellent campaign and did really well in putting together the convention.

But a Superman shirt, even in jest? Not for me.

[Paul McEnery]

I just bought this t-shirt:

http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/files/images_backup/obama.jpg

Brian Crowley will tell you I wanted to buy one at the Chicago Con, but they sold out. Now is the time to get one.... :smile:

Here's the link: http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=63596&cat=

I don't know. Obama is no Superman. And McCain is definitely no Lex Luthor.

As for Miss Tessmacher, though...

[rick]

Those shirts with Obama as Superman make me nervous. I'm cynical enough that I dislike the hero-worship that it entails.

I'm definitely going to vote for him, I'm definitely willing to give him a shot and he almost made me believe he can fix things with that speech last night. He's run an excellent campaign and did really well in putting together the convention.

But a Superman shirt, even in jest? Not for me.


I'm pretty sure that the people who will be wearing this shirt aren't actually expecting the Senator to rescue Lois Lane after she falls off a building though.

[Sabrinaset]

Anyone out there really believe that PUMA is anything but a Republican front group, playing at being Democrats?

I for one would love to see who the heads of the organization donated money to over the last couple of elections.

I believe they are exactly what they say they are.

I look at these PUMA-types as the Daughters of the Sexual Revolution from the 60's who, after years of being told that yes, women were the equals if not superiors of men and who listened to Helen Reddy just a little too often, invested a LOT of themselves emotionally in Hillary as someone who could do the job for them ... as it turns out, a bit TOO much of themselves. And now that the dream is denied, as Langson Hughes said, it's time for them to explode. And they're lashing out in all directions because their messiah, the one who was going to prove them right, their heroine in a pantsuit, the Woman who Braved Sniper Fire in Bosnia to Bring the Election Home to All Womyn ...has lost.

So don't start thinking of this as some deep Republican-spawned conspiracy, Rick. There are just as many Democratic nut-job fundy types out there as Republicans, and these ladies are just the latest proof of it.

[section 8]

Those shirts with Obama as Superman make me nervous. I'm cynical enough that I dislike the hero-worship that it entails.

I'm definitely going to vote for him, I'm definitely willing to give him a shot and he almost made me believe he can fix things with that speech last night. He's run an excellent campaign and did really well in putting together the convention.

But a Superman shirt, even in jest? Not for me.

Exactly!
It seems every time i think i might vote Obama his people exhault him another tier that makes me think
"What the fuck?"
I really dont know if i could vote for anyone who would allow such hero-worship directed at them, and so....

Gary Coleman '08

[K-DoG7p7]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/30/rnc.gustav/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

see... even Nature wants Obama

[Corrina]

I'm pretty sure that the people who will be wearing this shirt aren't actually expecting the Senator to rescue Lois Lane after she falls off a building though.

Oh, but they just might expect him to do the political equivalent of it, I think.

[TomStillwell]

aw yeah... those are nice... Norton scored one.

I bought one for my mother-in-law. She wore it to the stadium when he spoke the other night...people wanted to buy the shirt off her back!

[Pauly T]

I just bought this t-shirt:

http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/files/images_backup/obama.jpg




Well, that's a slightly less embarrassing image than this:


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb288/paulyt2000/barack-superman.jpg

[Alexx1]

I just bought this t-shirt:

http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/files/images_backup/obama.jpg

Brian Crowley will tell you I wanted to buy one at the Chicago Con, but they sold out. Now is the time to get one.... :smile:

Here's the link: http://www.graphittidesigns.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=63596&cat=

I think I might get a t-shirt. I'd still rather have the Alex Ross print instead but those things are going for $$$$$ on ebay. Might have to settle for the t-shirt. It's the next best thing.

[EJS]

I think I might get a t-shirt. I'd still rather have the Alex Ross print instead but those things are going for $$$$$ on ebay. Might have to settle for the t-shirt. It's the next best thing.

Not sure if they have any more, but ruppsworld is handling Mr. Ross's 2008 SDCC SUPER OBAMA SIGNED PRINT among other items from him. Might want to check them out first.

http://www.ruppsworld.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=14887

[Buzz Dixon]

Well, that's a slightly less embarrassing image than this:


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb288/paulyt2000/barack-superman.jpg
Wasn't that one photoshopped?

[Sabrinaset]

And now you have a Dem higher-up saying God is on their side because of Gustav. (http://www.redstate.com/diaries/absentee/2008/aug/30/fowler-fouls-hurricane-is-gods-favor-to-dem/) Plenty of laughter because "Everything's cool". Gotta love the compassion for the little people there ...

[section 8]

Wasn't that one photoshopped?

one can only hope.

[FalconX2000]

And now you have a Dem higher-up saying God is on their side because of Gustav. (http://www.redstate.com/diaries/absentee/2008/aug/30/fowler-fouls-hurricane-is-gods-favor-to-dem/) Plenty of laughter because "Everything's cool". Gotta love the compassion for the little people there ...

Yeah, very inappropriate joke by Moore on TV considering New Orleans is already evacuating to avoid the storm.

Those shirts with Obama as Superman make me nervous. I'm cynical enough that I dislike the hero-worship that it entails.

I'm definitely going to vote for him, I'm definitely willing to give him a shot and he almost made me believe he can fix things with that speech last night. He's run an excellent campaign and did really well in putting together the convention.

But a Superman shirt, even in jest? Not for me.

I'm not saying there aren't Obama supporters who expect him to be some perfect superhero (as is the case whenever a candidate is tagged with 'charismatic'), and I do understand your discomfort.

I would, however, like to point out that there are Obama supporters like me who are comfortable enough with him that we can make these kind of jokes about him the same way McCain's comfortable supporters (small group though they may be) can make 'older than dirt' jokes about him.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/30/rnc.gustav/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

see... even Nature wants Obama

http://weblog.xanga.com/awoolham/667833699/the-daily-show-take-on-the-obama-quest.html

Actually, natural disasters have helped Obama before...

WHY DOES GOD LOVE OBAMA?!

[Buzz Dixon]

Yeah, very inappropriate joke by Moore on TV considering New Orleans is already evacuating to avoid the storm.Someone affiliated with James Dobson's Focus Of The Family had urged conservative Christians to pray for rain and severe weather during Obama's outdoor speech. While we certainly don't want anyone to suffer injury or property loss, we can appreciate the irony of Gustav forcing the Republicans to cancel.

[rick]

I believe they are exactly what they say they are.

I look at these PUMA-types as the Daughters of the Sexual Revolution from the 60's who, after years of being told that yes, women were the equals if not superiors of men and who listened to Helen Reddy just a little too often, invested a LOT of themselves emotionally in Hillary as someone who could do the job for them ... as it turns out, a bit TOO much of themselves. And now that the dream is denied, as Langson Hughes said, it's time for them to explode. And they're lashing out in all directions because their messiah, the one who was going to prove them right, their heroine in a pantsuit, the Woman who Braved Sniper Fire in Bosnia to Bring the Election Home to All Womyn ...has lost.

So don't start thinking of this as some deep Republican-spawned conspiracy, Rick. There are just as many Democratic nut-job fundy types out there as Republicans, and these ladies are just the latest proof of it.


All I can go by is their reactions in print and on television, and the reality that PUMA spokeperson, Darragh Murphy, appears to have never donated money to any Democrats, but did donate to John McCain in 2000.

I personally find that sort of interesting.

[Paul McEnery]

Someone affiliated with James Dobson's Focus Of The Family had urged conservative Christians to pray for rain and severe weather during Obama's outdoor speech. While we certainly don't want anyone to suffer injury or property loss, we can appreciate the irony of Gustav forcing the Republicans to cancel.

Do the Republicans not understand that Minnesota isn't in New Orleans?

[KevinTBrown]

Do the Republicans not understand that Minnesota isn't in New Orleans?

I actually applaud this.

Why celebrate something like that when people and a city could be dying?

The last time a hurricane hit New Orleans, McCain and Bush were celebrating McCain's birthday.....

[FalconX2000]

Someone affiliated with James Dobson's Focus Of The Family had urged conservative Christians to pray for rain and severe weather during Obama's outdoor speech. While we certainly don't want anyone to suffer injury or property loss, we can appreciate the irony of Gustav forcing the Republicans to cancel.

I saw some of the video. It was mildly amusing. And it was fun to imagine, considering Obama's track record with the weather, rain clouds looming ominously overhead, then parting to let rays of moonlight shine down on the podium as Obama takes the stage. lol.:biggrin:

[KevinTBrown]

Someone affiliated with James Dobson's Focus Of The Family had urged conservative Christians to pray for rain and severe weather during Obama's outdoor speech. While we certainly don't want anyone to suffer injury or property loss, we can appreciate the irony of Gustav forcing the Republicans to cancel.

No, I'm not going to "appreciate the irony" of a hurricane.... Now when people can and will die because of it.

I know what you're trying to say, but such comments need to be put on hold until people are out of harm's way and the danger has passed.

[Paul McEnery]

I actually applaud this.

Why celebrate something like that when people and a city could be dying?

The last time a hurricane hit New Orleans, McCain and Bush were celebrating McCain's birthday.....

Which may have more to do with it.

That and not wanting to be upstaged by another natural disaster.

[Tommy]

Yeah, very inappropriate joke by Moore on TV considering New Orleans is already evacuating to avoid the storm.

I took it as a satirical take on the religious fundamentals who love to use the weather as a sign of God's will. (I'm looking at you Fred Phelps.)

[section 8]

I took it as a satirical take on the religious fundamentals who love to use the weather as a sign of God's will. (I'm looking at you Fred Phelps.)

Indeed,
I believe in God, But i dont think he's a bloodthirsty asshole, To paraprase stephen King's "The Mist"

also When He DOES strike people down i doubt he's that subtle

[FalconX2000]

Indeed,
I believe in God, But i dont think he's a bloodthirsty asshole, To paraprase stephen King's "The Mist"

also When He DOES strike people down i doubt he's that subtle

Actually, old testament God did alot of that fire and brimstone gig. Wiped out entire cities wholesale with Sodom and Gomorah, killed children with Egypt and Moses, mass genocide with Noah's Ark...It was only when we started getting to John the Baptist's era that he took a different PR tack.

That said, I think the next time we see God in a sweeping fashion will be the end of the world. I'm not sure about hard evidence of small miracles, but I think I've experienced a few too many strokes of fortune not to have God's hand involved in some of them. These hurricanes are just little quirks of the world we evolved on.

[section 8]

Actually, old testament God did alot of that fire and brimstone gig. Egypt and Moses, Sodom and Gomorah, Noah's Ark...It was only when we started getting to John the Baptist's era that he took a different PR tack.

That said, I think the next time we see God in a sweeping fashion will be the end of the world. I'm not sure about hard evidence of small miracles, but I think I've experienced a few too many strokes of fortune not to have God's hand involved in some of them. These hurricanes are just little quirks of the world we evolved on.


Kinda what i was eluding to.
I Heard the Oil rigs in the gulf were generating heat and that was both attracting and fueling the storms,

Besides Why would God punish LA and not TX?

[Paul McEnery]

Actually, old testament God did alot of that fire and brimstone gig. Wiped out entire cities wholesale with Sodom and Gomorah, killed children with Egypt and Moses, mass genocide with Noah's Ark...It was only when we started getting to John the Baptist's era that he took a different PR tack.

That said, I think the next time we see God in a sweeping fashion will be the end of the world. I'm not sure about hard evidence of small miracles, but I think I've experienced a few too many strokes of fortune not to have God's hand involved in some of them. These hurricanes are just little quirks of the world we evolved on.

Once we eliminate the hand of God from major disasters, we must perforce eliminate the hand of God from small strokes of fortune. Santa God is simply an image of the divine that's had it's time.

For those of us comfortable with the idea of an immanent God, whatever that might be, the hands of God are right there on the ends of each of our arms.

[section 8]

For those of us comfortable with the idea of an immanent God, whatever that might be, the hands of God are right there on the ends of each of our arms.

well said, Paul

[FalconX2000]

Once we eliminate the hand of God from major disasters, we must perforce eliminate the hand of God from small strokes of fortune. Santa God is simply an image of the divine that's had it's time.

For those of us comfortable with the idea of an immanent God, whatever that might be, the hands of God are right there on the ends of each of our arms.

I do believe in chaos theory myself.

I don't necessarily assume, however, that God is confined by the laws of such a philosophy box.

And it's not like we know that God ditching brimstone means he has ditched the small stuff. There's all kinds of thought processes that I could use to arrive at the conclusion. Maybe they would not be complete, or have some glaring flaw from your point of view, but that's that. It's not like we go around relying on miracles. It's along the kinds of questions of 'do you believe ghosts exist'.

[Paul McEnery]

I do believe in chaos theory myself.

I don't necessarily assume, however, God is confined by the laws of such a philosophy box.

There are already far too many "Paul talks bollocks about religion" threads around, so I'll restrain it to this: the value of the philosophy of science is that it allows us to rule out idolatrous thinking about our experience of the divine. Anyone who takes it upon themselves to think through their relationship with the divine learns they have to set aside the word "God" because the preconceptions it brings with it are blocks to getting to the next level in the relationship. At first, we wonder how we're going to get by without "God", then we wonder how we ever managed when constrained by "God", then we get to use the word again in the full knowledge and experience that it means different things in different circumstances, and anyway, why be so worried about a word, or a concept?

So "the hand of God" -- well, I know what that means inside my spiritual life; and on the other hand, I know what certain preachers very often mean by it, and it's a handy way to realize how young they are in their spiritual lives.

I think we're all clear that Santa God isn't throwing weather at us because he's bored of a Tuesday Afternoon, and that weather is actually the product of complex forces that we didn't ought to be buggering up any more than we already have.

It is perhaps less obvious that small strokes of fortune come from the same sort of physics as weather patterns, and that not buggering up the system any more than we have to, and in fact doing our best to to prime the system with right action, is precisely what we mean by "the hand of God" here too.

The world is more full of the loving personality of the divine when we choose to participate in it, and spread it around. And by participating in that loving personality, we become more aware of and open to that loving personality when it comes back around to us.

So yeah, chaos theory! Good idea to incorporate it in your spiritual life. Good idea to keep an eye out for it in the sky.

[FalconX2000]

There are already far too many "Paul talks bollocks about religion" threads around, so I'll restrain it to this: the value of the philosophy of science is that it allows us to rule out idolatrous thinking about our experience of the divine. Anyone who takes it upon themselves to think through their relationship with the divine learns they have to set aside the word "God" because the preconceptions it brings with it are blocks to getting to the next level in the relationship. At first, we wonder how we're going to get by without "God", then we wonder how we ever managed when constrained by "God", then we get to use the word again in the full knowledge and experience that it means different things in different circumstances, and anyway, why be so worried about a word, or a concept?

So "the hand of God" -- well, I know what that means inside my spiritual life; and on the other hand, I know what certain preachers very often mean by it, and it's a handy way to realize how young they are in their spiritual lives.

I think we're all clear that Santa God isn't throwing weather at us because he's bored of a Tuesday Afternoon, and that weather is actually the product of complex forces that we didn't ought to be buggering up any more than we already have.

It is perhaps less obvious that small strokes of fortune come from the same sort of physics as weather patterns, and that not buggering up the system any more than we have to, and in fact doing our best to to prime the system with right action, is precisely what we mean by "the hand of God" here too.

The world is more full of the loving personality of the divine when we choose to participate in it, and spread it around. And by participating in that loving personality, we become more aware of and open to that loving personality when it comes back around to us.

So yeah, chaos theory! Good idea to incorporate it in your spiritual life. Good idea to keep an eye out for it in the sky.

Bah, you could have summarised it this way:

We do God's work. We're God's love. When we all spread the love, we all feel the spirit of God. :biggrin:



Though I'm unclear whether you think God is simply what comes out of our goodness, something that I don't subscribe to. To me he is a seperate, powerful entity. There is circumstantial evidence to indicate he may not be omnipotent or omniscient, but there's also plenty of ways of thinking that leave that possibility open.

And yes, alot, maybe even all, of these 'small strokes of fortune' could be explained through chaos theory. Simply a result of the vast web of actions that happaned to lead to that specific outcome. Yet after many of those incidents I take a moment to thank God, adding in something along the lines of 'just in case you did it'.

[Paul McEnery]

Well, all right, I reckon this is still electoral politics, as long as the Religious Right wants to make it so.

So yeah: the God of Power. From my POV, that's our own egotistical power fantasies that we're projecting onto the divine. At the highest/deepest levels, the divine is not so fussed about power. The divine simply is. Power would be a come down.

And that's something I pay attention to in politicians as much as I do in preachers. A preacher who's borrowing from the so-called Power of God to big himself up is a loser. That's not how it works. All that'll do is build his ego defences higher still, so that it's even harder for him to listen to the voice of the divine.

Same with a politician. The only power s/he's got is acting on behalf of the people. So when a politician is obviously acting out of naked ambition, neither the voice of the people nor the voice of the divine is going to get much of a look in.

It's one of the things that bothers the hell out of me about people who want a strong leader. That's as much of an egotistical power fantasy projection as Santa God -- hell, it's turning a human being in your own private Santa God. Don't care if it's PUMAs, Obamaniacs, or the Sieg Heil Singalong, it's all a way of bigging yourself up so you don't have to listen.

Of course, while I'm busy bashing that kind of false consciousness, I'm just as capable of vanishing up my own arse as anyone. I've got my own omniscient power fantasies, too. But what can you do? All you can do is look yourself in the eye and ask yourself if you're doing something because it feels like right action, or are you fooling yourself to look big in the mirror.

And look at your preachers and politicians in exactly the same searching light.

[the4thpip]

I actually applaud this.

Why celebrate something like that when people and a city could be dying?

The last time a hurricane hit New Orleans, McCain and Bush were celebrating McCain's birthday.....

Of course, they were perfectly willing to celebrate while the Taliiban are killing our soldiers in Afghanistan and a growing rate, while the government is imploding in Pakistan, while Robert Mugabe is still killing opposition members and destroying his country in Zimbabwe.

It's just that all those things aren't considered possible PR disasters for the GOP.

[the4thpip]

Why do women called Gail always bring the funny?

It is conceivable that some people will think John McCain picked Sarah Palin to be his running mate because she is a woman. I know you find this shocking, but I swear I have heard it mentioned.

McCain does not believe in pandering to identity politics. He was looking for someone who was well prepared to fight against international Islamic extremism, the transcendent issue of our time. And in the end he decided that in good conscience, he was not going to settle for anyone who had not been commander of a state national guard for at least a year and a half. He put down his foot!

The obvious choice was Palin, the governor of Alaska, whose guard stands as our last best defense against possible attack by the resurgent Russian menace across the Bering Strait.

Also a woman, but that’s totally beside the point.

Read the whole thing here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/30/opinion/30collins-.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

[BnL]

Blah, blah, blah. I take all my spiritual cues from Mrs. Betty Bowers. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5QqEmBi8iw)

[the4thpip]

Little known fact about Sarah Palin: She laughs when another woman is called "bitch" and "a cancer".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkydrUnBZE

[Robin Bougie]

Wow, turns out that there is a VERY interesting story circulating online that the downs syndrome baby that McCain's soccer mom running mate Sarah Palin is always bragging about when she's railing against abortion -- might not even be HERS!

Look at the pictures. The photo you see at the top of the page is her EIGHT MONTHS into her supposed pregnancy. This is a pretty huge lie and coverup, if true.
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834

WTF. They didn't even look into this woman's past before putting her second in line to lead the country? She isn't even close to being qualified. McCain had never even heard of her the day before he hired her on... Hell, she said in an interview that she doesn't even know what the vice president does! It's astonishing to me that McCain's main knock against Obama all this time is that he isn't experienced enough for the job.... Talk about invalidating your own argument.

What is his main argument against voting for Barak gonna be now? "Don't vote for him! His running mate doesn't have a vagina like mine does!"

[darkhanamaru]

well, yes and the republican national convention hijinks begin...1968 anyone?

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/30/report-massive-warra.html

[Infra-Man]

Wow, turns out that there is a VERY interesting story circulating online that the downs syndrome baby that McCain's soccer mom running mate Sarah Palin is always bragging about when she's railing against abortion -- might not even be HERS!

Look at the pictures. The photo you see at the top of the page is her EIGHT MONTHS into her supposed pregnancy. This is a pretty huge lie and coverup, if true.
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834

WTF. They didn't even look into this woman's past before putting her second in line to lead the country? She isn't even close to being qualified. McCain had never even heard of her the day before he hired her on... Hell, she said in an interview that she doesn't even know what the vice president does! It's astonishing to me that McCain's main knock against Obama all this time is that he isn't experienced enough for the job.... Talk about invalidating your own argument.

What is his main argument against voting for Barak gonna be now? "Don't vote for him! His running mate doesn't have a vagina like mine does!"

Saw a story about this off a Fark link yesterday and it's all just conjecture right now with some flimsy legs to stand on. True or not, the Dems need to stay away from bringing this up. It'd be a slimy move to make this a talking point. Let someone else do the digging on this, not the Dems.

I think the Palin pick is clearly a gamble and maybe not as well researched a gamble since John McCain has only met her once and talked to her on the phone once prior to her getting the VP slot. Perhaps she didn't go through a thorough vetting process.

[Infra-Man]

Gustav changes the dynamic of the RNC, perhaps for the tasteless...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/13013.html

ST. PAUL, Minn. — President Bush is unlikely to make it to the Republican National Convention, and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) may deliver his acceptance speech via satellite because of the historically huge hurricane threatening New Orleans, top officials said.

[sic]

McCain made plans to travel to a threatened area of the Gulf Coast on Sunday, accompanied by his wife, Cindy, and running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin. They planned to meet Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour (R) in Jackson, Miss., aides said.

McCain was scheduled to deliver his acceptance speech Thursday but now may do so from the devastation zone if the storm hits the U.S. coast with the ferocity feared by forecasters.

So a presidential candidate may make his convention speech using a possible devastation zone as a backdrop; all in an area where his security detail and mere presence may potentially impede relief and rescue workers from doing their job.

Bad move. Don't exploit disaster.

[K-DoG7p7]

Gustav changes the dynamic of the RNC, perhaps for the tasteless...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/13013.html



So a presidential candidate may make his convention speech using a possible devastation zone as a backdrop; all in an area where his security detail and mere presence may potentially impede relief and rescue workers from doing their job.

Bad move. Don't exploit disaster.

Don't worry.. Obama will outshine him in New Orleans.. probebly stop the storm LONG before it hits .. Obama can do that you know.,..

[Infra-Man]

Don't worry.. Obama will outshine him in New Orleans.. probebly stop the storm LONG before it hits .. Obama can do that you know.,..

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/Scientivore/Politics/Obama/notthistime.jpg

[Ninja Kris]

[A]lso[,] [w]hen He DOES strike people down [I ] doubt [H]e's that subtle[.]

In your world, a category four hurricane is subtle.

Make the dictionary your friend.

[section 8]

In your world, a category four hurricane is subtle.

Make the dictionary your friend.



Make the Bible yours:tongue:

I've experienced a cat 4 hurricane firsthand (Google "Hugo")...it IS a Disaster, but as a punishment from an omnimpotenet God who
has a history of punishing the world with Fire, Brimstones and Global Flooding, ? very subtle.

If we were being punished by God there would be no question, nor would there be warning, or time to evacuate.

[rick]

In your world, a category four hurricane is subtle.

Make the dictionary your friend.


[W]hat the [H]ell are [y]ou[,] an [E]nglish teach[e]r or just a [p]unctuation Gn[o]me[?]

[Ninja Kris]

Make the Bible yours:tongue:

I've experienced a cat 4 hurricane firsthand...it IS a Disaster, but as a punishment from an omnimpotenet God? very subtle.

If we were being punished by God there would be no question, nor would there be warning, or time to evacuate.

So y'know....get bent

I have read the Bible.

Subtle would be God working behind the scenes in Esther.

The definition of subtle is "So slight as to be difficult to notice or appreciate."

A category four hurricane is not subtle.

Words mean things. Deal with it.

[section 8]

I Graduated, and do not believe in Gnomes. So it realy doesn't matter.

[KevinTBrown]

Which has zip to do with this election, guys & gals. :smile:

Look, if McCain wants to commit political suicide by using the death and destruction of a hurricane as the backdrop to his accepting his party's nomination, so be it. But God has nothing to do with it.

You can argue as much as you like about whether this is "God's response" to James Dobson's Focus Of The Family praying for rain at the Democratric convention or not, but the reality is that there's a disastrous storm heading towards our country. No, not just the possible election of McCain as President, but a category 5 hurricane.

Instead of trying to "blame" something or someone else, better to pray that people are safe.




Now then, back on topic, I just think it's incredibly STUPID of McCain to even think of using this storm to further his own political "goals". If he really cares, then just cancel the GOP Convention, take that unused money and give it to those who'll need to in the south. Don't use this tragedy as a way to gain a few more votes and call yourself someone who cares....

[K-DoG7p7]

[W]hat the [H]ell are [y]ou[,] an [E]nglish teach[e]r or just a [p]unctuation Gn[o]me[?]

My guess is .. neither.. as he corrected i with [i] instead of [I]

[Samurai]

So many people will have to miss the convention, I think they should just postpone it a week or 2.

[section 8]

I have read the Bible.

Subtle would be God working behind the scenes in Esther.

The definition of subtle is "So slight as to be difficult to notice or appreciate."

A category four hurricane is not subtle.

Words mean things. Deal with it.

and where was the Wrath in Esther?

Face it. If these storms were gods wrath we would be too busy trying to put our skin back on to even debate it.

[rick]

So many people will have to miss the convention, I think they should just postpone it a week or 2.


I agree, only if I was them, I'd wait about 10 weeks just to be safe, and then go ahead and hold it. :tongue:

[Samurai]

I agree, only if I was them, I'd wait about 10 weeks just to be safe, and then go ahead and hold it. :tongue:

Then it would conflict with the Republican victory party... :)

[Grazzt]

Then it would conflict with the Republican victory party... :)

The Republicans are going to throw a party when Obama wins, too?

They must really love to party. :cool:

[section 8]

i attended a watch party for (was it the MI Primary results? i dont remember) with a group of Hillary Clinton Supporters, when we noticed there was an Obama Watch party in the same place (wild Wing Cafe', Myrtle Beach) i suggested challenging them to a drinking contest....dirty looks were the onlt response i got.

(a bit off topic, but i felt like sharing)

[rick]

Then it would conflict with the Republican victory party... :)

Hah!

Very good comeback sir. :biggrin:

[Infra-Man]

So many people will have to miss the convention, I think they should just postpone it a week or 2.

That is the only sensible thing to do. Conventions are celebrations for political parties and really, they should just push it back a bit.

[Infra-Man]

Very interesting...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31reconstruct.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1220202073-0ZBUtCx49NSk9DmsJb1LVg

First part of the article:

Advisers Say Conservative Ire Pushed McCain Away From Picking Lieberman

WASHINGTON — In the end, the choice of his running mate said more about Senator John McCain and his image of himself than it did about Sarah Palin, the little-known governor of Alaska whose selection has shaken up the presidential race.

For weeks, advisers close to the campaign said, Mr. McCain had wanted to name as his running mate his good friend Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, the Democrat turned independent. But by the end of last weekend, the outrage from Christian conservatives over the possibility that Mr. McCain would fill out the Republican ticket with Mr. Lieberman, a supporter of abortion rights, had become too intense to be ignored.

With time running out, and after a long meeting with his inner circle in Phoenix, Mr. McCain finally picked up the phone last Sunday and reached Ms. Palin at the Alaska State Fair. Although the campaign’s polling on Mr. McCain’s potential running mates was inconclusive on the selection of Ms. Palin — virtually no one had heard of her, a McCain adviser said — the governor, who opposes abortion, had glowing reviews from influential social conservatives.

Mr. McCain was comfortable with two others on his short list, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts. But neither was the transformative, attention-grabbing choice Mr. McCain felt he needed, top campaign advisers said, to help him pivot from his image as the custodian of the status quo to a change agent like his Democratic rival, Senator Barack Obama.

Not least, Mr. Obama’s decision to pass over Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton as his running mate opened the possibility for Republicans to put a woman on the ticket and pick off some of Mrs. Clinton’s supporters.

At 11 a.m. on Thursday, at the McCain vacation compound near Sedona, Ariz., Mr. McCain invited Ms. Palin to join him on the ticket. He hardly knew her, and she had virtually no foreign policy experience, but Ms. Palin was a “kindred spirit,” a McCain adviser said. Mr. McCain was betting, the adviser said, that she would help him reclaim the mantle of maverick that he had lost this year.

The selection was the culmination of a five-month process, described by Mr. McCain’s inner circle and outside advisers in interviews this past weekend, and offers a glimpse into how Mr. McCain might make high-stakes decisions as president.

At the very least, the process reflects Mr. McCain’s history of making fast, instinctive and sometimes risky decisions. “I make them as quickly as I can, quicker than the other fellow, if I can,” Mr. McCain wrote, with his top adviser Mark Salter, in his 2002 book, “Worth the Fighting For.” “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”

[FalconX2000]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s298/Scientivore/Politics/Obama/notthistime.jpg

That is absolutely hilarious. Jon Stewart would have a ball of a time with that

Which has zip to do with this election, guys & gals. :smile:

Look, if McCain wants to commit political suicide by using the death and destruction of a hurricane as the backdrop to his accepting his party's nomination, so be it. But God has nothing to do with it.

You can argue as much as you like about whether this is "God's response" to James Dobson's Focus Of The Family praying for rain at the Democratric convention or not, but the reality is that there's a disastrous storm heading towards our country. No, not just the possible election of McCain as President, but a category 5 hurricane.

Instead of trying to "blame" something or someone else, better to pray that people are safe.




Now then, back on topic, I just think it's incredibly STUPID of McCain to even think of using this storm to further his own political "goals". If he really cares, then just cancel the GOP Convention, take that unused money and give it to those who'll need to in the south. Don't use this tragedy as a way to gain a few more votes and call yourself someone who cares....

The hurricane is serious. We know its coming. Nobody is joking about death tolls. That doesn't mean that somehow its implications beyond its immediate danger to human life become taboo.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Very interesting...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31reconstruct.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1220202073-0ZBUtCx49NSk9DmsJb1LVg

First part of the article:


Now I'm happy he picked Palin, though I'm still not gonna vote for him.


I hate Lieberman, and I'm from CT.

[FalconX2000]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/palin-surge-wha.html

December 2006:

Alaska Business Monthly: We've lost a lot of Alaska's military members to the war in Iraq. How do you feel about sending more troops into battle, as President Bush is suggesting?

Palin: I've been so focused on state government, I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq. I heard on the news about the new deployments, and while I support our president, Condoleezza Rice and the administration, I want to know that we have an exit plan in place; I want assurances that we are doing all we can to keep our troops safe. Every life lost is such a tragedy. I am very, very proud of the troops we have in Alaska, those fighting overseas for our freedoms, and the families here who are making so many sacrifices.



I have the urge to dust my hands and stroll off...

[Sabrinaset]

Kris, we have a strict "No feeding the Trolls" rule here!

Anyways, back to the news ...

Palin apparently made quite an impression ... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/30/AR2008083002377.html)

Far from being a last-minute tactical move or a second choice when better known alternatives were eliminated, Palin was very much in McCain's thinking from the beginning of the selection process, according to McCain's advisers. The 44-year-old governor made every cut as the first list of candidates assembled last spring was slowly winnowed. The more McCain learned about her, the more attracted he was to her as someone who shared his maverick, anti-establishment instincts.


Bush and Co may not make it to what convention there is ... (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/13013.html)

President Bush is unlikely to make it to the Republican National Convention, and John McCain may deliver his acceptance speech via satellite because of the historically huge hurricane threatening New Orleans, top officials said.

[Kevinroc]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5976307.html

GOP drops convention's opening night as Gustav nears

[Buzz Dixon]

I've been reading Isaiah recently (you know, the prophet who went around naked to get people's attention), and his prophecies of doom make it pretty clear that God doesn't send destruction but rather removes his protection from people and allows the real world to take its course. The famous "mene mene tekel uparsin" in the book of Daniel is translated as "You have been weighed in the balance and found wanting" implying God is the one doing the weighing but actually the Hebrew says "you have been weighed, you have been weighed in the balance and found wanting by the Persians" (meaning the up and coming Persian empire didn't think Babylon could resist them militarily).

[Sabrinaset]

Zogby says McCain over Obama 47%/45% ... (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html)

...but Gallup says Obama over McCain 49%/41%. (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx)

Sometrhing else that KevinRocs article got me thinking about ... no Republican Convention? No Republican Convention bounce in the polls!

Buzz: Good point! I mean, so many people think God is all about going with the brimstone attacks on Sodom and Gomorrah or suchlike, but that's really putting human constraints on an omnipotent and omniscient God.

[the4thpip]

Zogby says McCain over Obama 47%/45% ... (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html)

...but Gallup says Obama over McCain 49%/41%. (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx)


There is actually a newer one, with a narrower 48-42 lead:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/109903/Gallup-Daily-ObamaBiden-Ticket-Leads-Points.aspx

[Buzz Dixon]

Found this on Andrew Sullivan's blog:

I’ve voted a straight Republican ticket every year of my life since 1975, when I first came of voting age, but I was stunned and horrified by McCain’s choice of Palin. I simply cannot even consider voting for McCain after this choice, which speaks loudly of his own selfishness and fundamental frivolousness.

So I was shocked when I turned to the conservative blogs looking for others who shared my dismay and found a celebration going on. They really honestly believe that Palin’s “inexperience” and Obama’s “inexperience” are equivalent. I have had no luck at all in the past 24 hours trying to explain that Obama is quite obviously an impressive man (with whom I disagree on almost every major issue) with extraordinary qualities of organization, discipline and leadership. I see nothing in Palin’s record to suggest that she has any such qualities.

He is a man who has spent his adult life thinking serious thoughts about serious issues and having serious conversations about them with other serious, well-informed people; while Palin quite as clearly has done none of those things. He was the president of the Harvard Law Review; she was the point guard on her high school basketball team.

He has surrounded himself in his campaign with world-class people (with whom, again, I disagree on almost every issue); and though I am doubtless an elitist and snob for saying so, I doubt that she has even met a half-dozen world-class people in her lifetime.

While Obama might do a hundred things as President that I believe are bad for the country, I am confident that he would surround himself with experienced, informed, competent advisors and that he would make no world-destroying blunders. I cannot say the same about Palin and, in view of what this choice reveals about McCain’s character and judgment, I cannot say the same of him either.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/the-shock-of-pa.html#more

[Paul McEnery]

Saw a story about this off a Fark link yesterday and it's all just conjecture right now with some flimsy legs to stand on. True or not, the Dems need to stay away from bringing this up. It'd be a slimy move to make this a talking point. Let someone else do the digging on this, not the Dems.

I think the Palin pick is clearly a gamble and maybe not as well researched a gamble since John McCain has only met her once and talked to her on the phone once prior to her getting the VP slot. Perhaps she didn't go through a thorough vetting process.

What on earth do you mean, true or not.

It's obvious bullshit from somebody who pulled it out of his arse.

[Buzz Dixon]

...and then there's this...

State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to give her the news.

"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president?" said Green, a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla. "Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

Emphasis added.

http://www.adn.com/news/politics/story/510249.html

[Infra-Man]

What on earth do you mean, true or not.

It's obvious bullshit from somebody who pulled it out of his arse.

The only thing that gives me pause is the photo of her about seven months pregnant in which she doesn't look pregnant at all. Apart from that, the rest of the story is tinfoil hat territory.

[the4thpip]

...and then there's this...



Emphasis added.

http://www.adn.com/news/politics/story/510249.html

I think that is the woman who was called "a bitch" and a "cancer" in that radio show I provided the youtube link to earlier... With Palin only laughing at those statements.

Added bonus: Lyda Green is a cancer survivor.

[the4thpip]

The only thing that gives me pause is the photo of her about seven months pregnant in which she doesn't look pregnant at all. Apart from that, the rest of the story is tinfoil hat territory.

And the supposed long flight home while she was in labor. I mean, wtf?

[Infra-Man]

And the supposed long flight home while she was in labor. I mean, wtf?

You'd figure it wouldn't be advisable to fly late in the third trimester, but it probably happens.

[Paul McEnery]

well, yes and the republican national convention hijinks begin...1968 anyone?

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/30/report-massive-warra.html

This calls for a bit of unpacking, I think.

Here's what's going on. The police are pre-emptively arresting protesters in their own homes.

In particular, they've gone after I-Witness, who Rodneykinged the last Republican Convention, saving hundreds of protesters from conviction.

The house where I-Witness Video is staying in St. Paul has been surrounded by police. We have locked all the doors. We have been told that if we leave we will be detained. One of our people who was caught outside is being detained in handcuffs in front of the house. The police say that they are waiting to get a search warrant. More than a dozen police are wielding firearms, including one St. Paul officer with a long gun, which someone told me is an M-16. We are suffering a preemptive video arrest. For those that don't know, I-Witness Video was remarkably successful in exposing police misconduct and outright perjury by police during the 2004 RNC. Out of 1800 arrests, at least 400 were overturned based solely on video evidence which contradicted sworn statements which were fabricated by police officers. It seems that the house arrest we are now under and the possible threat of the seizure of our computers and video cameras is a result of the 2004 success.

So, anyone still want to claim I'm using excessive language when I say this is fascism?

[Sabrinaset]

Well, it's usually the last four weeks where you get the flight prohibition, but most airlines will let a woman in that stage of pregnancy fly IF she has a doctor's note. And as I understand it, each airline has different rules regarding pregnancy, so some make no restrictions on travel no matter how advanced the pregnancy stage is, while others will restrict around seven months.

[Corrina]

And the supposed long flight home while she was in labor. I mean, wtf?

You know, labor takes a long time. People use airplanes much more as a matter of course in Alaska.

Do we really need to start criticizing her birth choices here, people? Did anyone bring up any choices men made about the birth of their children?

There's so much to criticize about this women as a VP pick, including the somewhat abrupt way that McCain seemed to pick her, and we're going after whether she took a plane flight while in labor? The woman has had more than one kid. After the first, you kinda know what's going on.

[Infra-Man]

Well, it's usually the last four weeks where you get the flight prohibition, but most airlines will let a woman in that stage of pregnancy fly IF she has a doctor's note. And as I understand it, each airline has different rules regarding pregnancy, so some make no restrictions on travel no matter how advanced the pregnancy stage is, while others will restrict around seven months.

Ahh. Thanks for the info.

[Paul McEnery]

You know, labor takes a long time. People use airplanes much more as a matter of course in Alaska.

Do we really need to start criticizing her birth choices here, people? Did anyone bring up any choices men made about the birth of their children?

There's so much to criticize about this women as a VP pick, including the somewhat abrupt way that McCain seemed to pick her, and we're going after whether she took a plane flight while in labor? The woman has had more than one kid. After the first, you kinda know what's going on.

On this one: couldn't agree more.

[the4thpip]

You know, labor takes a long time. People use airplanes much more as a matter of course in Alaska.

Do we really need to start criticizing her birth choices here, people? Did anyone bring up any choices men made about the birth of their children?

There's so much to criticize about this women as a VP pick, including the somewhat abrupt way that McCain seemed to pick her, and we're going after whether she took a plane flight while in labor? The woman has had more than one kid. After the first, you kinda know what's going on.

It's not criticizing anything, it's doubting something. She does not look pregnant in ANY of the pics from before she gave birth. Her daughter, who was raised on "abstinence only sex education" however, sorta kinda may.

[Corrina]

Some women don't look that pregnant. My mother and sister, both skinny their whole lives, hardly did. Clothes can hide a lot.

I just fail to see how any of this means anything about her candidacy. She's a right wing neo-con who wants to do away with abortion rights, thinks creationism should be taught in schools, is involved in an official ethics scandal in her home state, and apparently was picked because she's the only women with far-right credentials that McCain could stomach.

I said way back on some thread that how and why Obama choose his running mate told me a lot about him. It tells me that Obama isn't going to change politics but that he might be a very effective type of politician. He was intimidated by Biden's greater experience and seemed to seriously consider the need that someone might have to step into the Presidency. And he knew Biden well.

McCain met Palin once, talked to her in another phone call, and made an impulsive decision to pick her to make nice with the far right and to find a token.

I think I'm way more comfortable with how Obama makes decisions.

As a women, I've already had a token on the ticket. The Dems gave me one twenty years ago. I want a women in her own right, which Hilary was, who also isn't trying to fight against everything I believe in. The fact that McCain provided a token isn't gong to make me switch my vote, anymore than any evangelical Christian women were going to cross over and vote for Hilary Clinton.

[Buzz Dixon]

It would be simple to prove who the parents of the baby are. Cotton swab some saliva from the mouths of the parents, the 15 year old daughter, and the baby and you'll have an answer in plenty of time for the election. Palin ought to suggest it herself just to head off any speculation at the past.





































...of course, Thomas Eagleton should have told
McGovern he'd had electro-shock treatments for depression, too.

[Sabrinaset]

Meh, let's just put the National Enquirer on the job! They'd do a better job than the mainstream press, anyways!

[Grazzt]

Meh, let's just put the National Enquirer on the job! They'd do a better job than the mainstream press, anyways!

John Edwards agrees.

[the4thpip]

Meh, let's just put the National Enquirer on the job! They'd do a better job than the mainstream press, anyways!

They might clarify if the kid's father is actually Michael Jackson, ET or John Edwards.

[Infra-Man]

They might clarify if the kid's father is actually Michael Jackson, ET or John Edwards.

Or...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/Batboy_Steals_MINI.jpg

[Nick Soapdish]

Seems like the pick of Sarah Palin is a good campaign pick.


It got the news of the Democratic Convention off the front page quickly.
It helps establish McCain as a maverick again.
It gives the Democrats the opportunity to screw up. After all, with such a short record, there's plenty in her record to complain about and most of the discussion here has been about her last kid.
And it might help keep the Republicans looking like moderate for voters that don't look at her record.
While still actually having conservative cred to make the base happy.


It's a poor political pick.

McCain either has to admit that he's completely blowing smoke up our butts when complaining about lack of experience or he has to argue that there is no reason for him to suspect that the primary role of the VP will be at all pertinent during his administration. Then there's the ethics problems that she's facing on top of her lack of experience.

[Major Comma]

Now that the Republicans are basically doing a bare bones convention ,
does this mean McCain wont get a convention bounce?

[Corrina]

If they're smart, they'll send all their delegates down to the Gulf Coast area to volunteer services. Then they'll get photo ops out of it.

Cynical, I know, but that's politics for you.

[Major Comma]

I must be really cynical then because I expect Palin to be doing quite a bit of volunteering this week!

[Sabrinaset]

Former DNC Chairman Don Fowler apologized on Sunday for getting caught laughing about Gustav ... I mean, apologized for his comments. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/ex-dem-chair-ap.html)

"If this offended anybody, I personally apologize," Fowler told ABC News. "It was a mistake, and it was a satirical statement made in jest. And one that I clearly don't believe." (Clearly! ~ Bree)

Fowler was secretly recorded by the person sitting behind him while flying from Denver, Colo., to Charlotte, N.C., following the Democratic National Convention. His conversation with Rep. John Spratt, D-S.C., was anonymously posted to YouTube and highlighted by RedState.com, a conservative blog.

"One doesn't anticipate that one's private conversation will be surreptitiously taped by some right-wing nutcase," said Fowler. "But that's the nature of what we're dealing with."

Fowler, a superdelegate who endorsed Hillary Clinton in 2007, was caught on tape saying: "The hurricane’s going to hit New Orleans about the time they start. The timing is -- at least it appears now that it’ll be there Monday. That just demonstrates that God’s on our side. [Laughter] Everything’s cool."

Translation: I believed what I said until some conservative blogger posted it and now the only excuse I could think up on such short notice was that it was a satirical conversation. But it's that bloggers fault I said it anyway. :biggrin:

Aw, you gotta love politicians!

[Nick Soapdish]

Gotta love those "if it offended somebody" apologies. It subtly says that it's not their fault that you were offended - you were just being too sensitive.

I wish that people would just apologize for saying stupid things, admit that it was a stupid thing and leave it at that. But I do understand the temptation to squirm away and try and deflect it a bit. I'm catching myself doing it now as well and I'm not sure if I had been making those sorts of "apologies" and I'm just more sensitive because I've seen how stupid and insincere it can look or if there's a part of me that's thinking "hey, there's an out!".

For what it's worth, I do think that it was a joke. It's one that's in poor taste.

[TomStillwell]

I just fail to see how any of this means anything about her candidacy.

I think if it turns out that her daughter is the mother of that baby, it raises some questions to her credibility and honesty.

Yeah, teenage get daughters get pregnant all the time in America and sometimes it doesn't matter how well the parents raise the kid.

But hiding the pregnancy of your daughter and claiming the baby as your own? That's being deceptive. And cowardly to boot...not willing to come clean with what happened because of your very public stance on family morals.

I dunno. I didn't say anything to my wife about this story and I called her over to look at a picture of the Palin family taken during the time Sarah Palin was pregnant. My wife wouldn't know Sarah Palin from a hole in the wall. I asked her to point to the woman who looked pregnant in the picture. She pointed at Bristol Palin without pause. My wife's jaw hit the ground when I told her Sarah Palin was like seven months pregnant in the picture.

[Major Comma]

if the destruction from gustav is massive I wouldnt be surprised if Alaska loaned some of its national guard troops.:smile:

[JKCarrier]

But hiding the pregnancy of your daughter and claiming the baby as your own? That's being deceptive. And cowardly to boot

Maybe, but is it really anybody's business, outside of her family? Unlike the stuff about firing her brother-in-law, it doesn't have anything to do with her job. I didn't think Bill Clinton's affair was relevant to anything, and I don't think this is either. I hope the Dems are smart enough to leave it alone... picking on teenage moms and Down's Syndrome babies is just going to make them look like bullies.

[BnL]

Maybe, but is it really anybody's business, outside of her family? Unlike the stuff about firing her brother-in-law, it doesn't have anything to do with her job. I didn't think Bill Clinton's affair was relevant to anything, and I don't think this is either. I hope the Dems are smart enough to leave it alone... picking on teenage moms and Down's Syndrome babies is just going to make them look like bullies.

Bill Clinton wasn't taking public moralistic stands against adultery. The possibility that Palin lied about her pregnancy is relevant ONLY because she's been running on a "family values," social conservative, evangelical plank.

But I agree, the Democratic leadership should not speculate on this. If the truth comes out, and she did lie, then she deserves to be dragged through the mud, though.

[Corrina]

It shouldn't be too hard to check. Someone had to deliver the baby, somewhere.

Tabloid press will come running with cash in hand to see if they can get someone to talk. Until there's something more than unconfirmed reports by opponents, it doesn't matter.

And even if it is true, I'm not sure it matters. I didn't care about McCain's affairs or Bill's affairs or how Hilary conducts her marriage. I'm not sure this is any of my business either.

[Nick Soapdish]

Maybe, but is it really anybody's business, outside of her family? Unlike the stuff about firing her brother-in-law, it doesn't have anything to do with her job. I didn't think Bill Clinton's affair was relevant to anything, and I don't think this is either. I hope the Dems are smart enough to leave it alone... picking on teenage moms and Down's Syndrome babies is just going to make them look like bullies.

I don't see how it is.

However, to the really socially conservative side, it is because it's a direct reflection on her morals and her family's. Which may mean that the Dems could be stupid enough to go after that to shake them loose from the McCain campaign (or to keep from ever getting attached).

Like you, I hope that isn't the case. Stick to her positions on the issues. Like the Bridge to Nowhere that she was originally for (and empathized with the citizens about how people called their city as "nowhere"), but then was against. The money that was originally earmarked for the bridge got freed up and Alaska got to spend most of it on other stuff. They're still building a road to nowhere though because that would've gone back to the feds. It just goes to an empty beach which would've connected to the bridge.

[BnL]

It shouldn't be too hard to check. Someone had to deliver the baby, somewhere.

Tabloid press will come running with cash in hand to see if they can get someone to talk. Until there's something more than unconfirmed reports by opponents, it doesn't matter.

And even if it is true, I'm not sure it matters. I didn't care about McCain's affairs or Bill's affairs or how Hilary conducts her marriage. I'm not sure this is any of my business either.

I'm with you, I don't give a shit whether it's her daughter's kid or not, in the sense that a person's sex life/family life is their own business. But on the other hand, if true, it would be an example of her hypocrisy and deceptiveness, and how that might highlight how she governs. And I'm sure it would matter to all those "values voters" that she wants to court.

[Nick Soapdish]

I'm with you, I don't give a shit whether it's her daughter's kid or not, in the sense that a person's sex life/family life is their own business. But on the other hand, if true, it would be an example of her hypocrisy and deceptiveness, and how that might highlight how she governs. And I'm sure it would matter to all those "values voters" that she wants to court.

Nah.

I think that her stance against public corruption and abuse of power by public officials juxtaposed against her own administration's pressure to fire her ex-brother-in-law juxtaposes that already.

[Buzz Dixon]

Here's a picture of Palin during an earlier pregnancy.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080831/capt.529a19dfc6774f308117d4be16d30c8d.veepstakes_p alin_ak516.jpg?x=229&y=345&q=85&sig=5f7FFPyR6pApAkrAXznM1w--

[BnL]

Nah.

I think that her stance against public corruption and abuse of power by public officials juxtaposed against her own administration's pressure to fire her ex-brother-in-law juxtaposes that already.

A second example wouldn't hurt in driving the point home.

But yeah, it's just speculation at this point.

[Major Comma]

so many any other thing that are actually on the record that you could hit her with .

[IronMagnus]

A science teacher met the pregnant Sarah Palin earlier this year:

http://www.polartrec.com/node/3944

And the account was written in April, months before most of the world ever heard of Sarah Palin.

[TomStillwell]

Maybe, but is it really anybody's business, outside of her family? Unlike the stuff about firing her brother-in-law, it doesn't have anything to do with her job. I didn't think Bill Clinton's affair was relevant to anything, and I don't think this is either. I hope the Dems are smart enough to leave it alone... picking on teenage moms and Down's Syndrome babies is just going to make them look like bullies.

You are right, it is nobody's business. It could have been a totally private matter handled within the confines of her own family.

But...if it is true, Sarah Palin is the one who took the matter outside of that circle of privacy by trying to deceive the public into believing that baby was her own.

[Samurai]

Bill Clinton wasn't taking public moralistic stands against adultery. The possibility that Palin lied about her pregnancy is relevant ONLY because she's been running on a "family values," social conservative, evangelical plank.

But I agree, the Democratic leadership should not speculate on this. If the truth comes out, and she did lie, then she deserves to be dragged through the mud, though.

So, it doesn't matter if Democrats have no morals or values because they don't claim to have any in the first place, and don't run on the issue of morals and values? They can therefor be as dirty and corrupt as they want, just so long as they don't pretend to be otherwise?

[Royal]

So, it doesn't matter if Democrats have no morals or values because they don't claim to have any in the first place, and don't run on the issue of morals and values? They can therefor be as dirty and corrupt as they want, just so long as they don't pretend to be otherwise?

And how many socially conservative Republicans got caught with a dick in their mouth?

Just asking.

[Nick Soapdish]

So, it doesn't matter if Democrats have no morals or values because they don't claim to have any in the first place, and don't run on the issue of morals and values? They can therefor be as dirty and corrupt as they want, just so long as they don't pretend to be otherwise?

No.

But if somebody is actually campaigning on that as one of their pluses and why you should vote for them (or some of their supporters are advocating that reason), it might give pause to some of those people that were voting for them for that reason if it turned out to be false.

The real abuse is whether it's a personal issue or something that is job-related. Clinton's infidelity and the accusation about Palin's youngest child aren't job related (although they can become so indirectly). Real issues are more like the disproved claim that he used his status to score or the ongoing investigation of her trying to get her brother-in-law fired.

Hypocrisy is merely a cherry on top. Candidates on both sides have attempted to garb themselves in apparel that didn't fit and both sides have been called out in turn. (Spitzer comes to mind pretty quickly.) I suppose that won't stop you from thinking that this is a partisan thing.

[BnL]

So, it doesn't matter if Democrats have no morals or values because they don't claim to have any in the first place, and don't run on the issue of morals and values? They can therefor be as dirty and corrupt as they want, just so long as they don't pretend to be otherwise?

Way to twist my words. God, you're revolting.

I put "family values" and "values voters" in quotes for a reason. Because morals and values are subjective. The Christian Right wants to claim a monopoly on those things. And many in their movement want to legislate those morals onto the rest of us. They have made that a political goal. Their candidates are elected to further that cause. It's bad enough that they want to do this in the first place, but when those people can't live up to the standards that they want to force the rest of us to live up to, it's cause for outrage.

Bill Clinton cheated on his wife. Maybe that will make you think less of him as a person, that's your judgment call. But he was never the "values voters" candidate. So his transgression was about his personal life, it wasn't in direct contradiction of one of his primary political agendas. Generally, Democrats want to let adults conduct their private lives however they wish, as long as they are not causing real harm to anyone. So at the very least, he wasn't being a hypocrite by getting a blowjob from Monica.

And when a Democrat is working, in their own personal lives, in direct opposition to the policies they were elected to further, it is also objectionable. Edited to Add: Nick Soapdish mentioned Spitzer, who is a perfect example.

[KevinTBrown]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_convention_rdp

He cited Palin's stint as governor of a "state that produces 20 percent of America's energy" as well as her previous membership in the PTA and her time spent on the city council and in the mayor's office in Wasilla, a town of fewer than 7,000 people outside Anchorage.

File the bolded part under "straws, grasping for" section. :rolleyes:

[LtMarvel]

Alleged photo of Gov. Palin and family from March 9th, 6 weeks prior to the baby being born:

http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/687-3504039.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg

Curse you, Alaskan vest wearers! You make everything confusing!

[LtMarvel]

double post...

[LtMarvel]

Or...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1e/Batboy_Steals_MINI.jpg
Believe it or not, they are out of business...

[LtMarvel]

re: Buzz's link to an earlier pregnacy...

Hmm.. that definitely looks like 80s hair to me... Think that's her first?

[Jake V]

I can't believe any of you are bothering to entertain the notion that she faked a pregnancy when there are so many other ways to cast doubt on her credibility that don't involve rumormongering.

Shouldn't being a creationist be enough??

[EMeadow]

Very interesting...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31reconstruct.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1220202073-0ZBUtCx49NSk9DmsJb1LVg

First part of the article:

No I think the Christian conservative would have a problem with a Jew as a VP, not the fact that he was ok on abortion.

Come on, that's obvious.

[EMeadow]

Deleted for double post

[FalconX2000]

Zogby says McCain over Obama 47%/45% ... (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html)

...but Gallup says Obama over McCain 49%/41%. (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx)

Sometrhing else that KevinRocs article got me thinking about ... no Republican Convention? No Republican Convention bounce in the polls!

Buzz: Good point! I mean, so many people think God is all about going with the brimstone attacks on Sodom and Gomorrah or suchlike, but that's really putting human constraints on an omnipotent and omniscient God.

Not to mention sodomy is pretty popular nowadays...


what?:tongue:

If they're smart, they'll send all their delegates down to the Gulf Coast area to volunteer services. Then they'll get photo ops out of it.

Cynical, I know, but that's politics for you.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/08/in_ohio_obama_says_he_will_act.html
Well, it's not like Obama ain't considering something similar:

Q: Senator what (inaudible) (will you be reaching out to your million donors after the hurricane for financial support)

BO: what we want to do is we want to find out first from folks on the ground what is going to be most helpful. We don't want to solicite a bunch of canned goods that cant get there, or bottles of water and then learn that they already have water. So we are going to wait over the next 48 hours to find out what would be the most useful. I think we can get tons of volunteers to travel down there if it becomes necessary. So it becomes a question of what people on the ground need and once we determine that then we can activate our email list of a couple of million people who want to give back.

Q: Could that include cash

BO: Absolutely

[Samurai]

Zogby says McCain over Obama 47%/45% ... (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html)

...but Gallup says Obama over McCain 49%/41%. (http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx)

Sometrhing else that KevinRocs article got me thinking about ... no Republican Convention? No Republican Convention bounce in the polls!

Buzz: Good point! I mean, so many people think God is all about going with the brimstone attacks on Sodom and Gomorrah or suchlike, but that's really putting human constraints on an omnipotent and omniscient God.

It's important to note that the Gallup poll is a 3 day average, so the full effect of the Palin nomination hasn't been included in it yet. Conversely, the Zogby poll is entirely post-announcement numbers, and shows a significant bounce for McCain because of it.


The interactive online Zogby survey shows that both Obama and McCain have solidified the support among their own parties - Obama won 86% support of Democrats and McCain 89% of Republicans in a two-way head-to-head poll question not including the running mates. When Biden and Palin are added to the mix, Obama's Democratic support remains at 86%, while McCain's increases to 92%.

Overall, 52% said the selection of Palin as the GOP vice presidential nominee helps the Republican ticket, compared to 29% who said it hurt. Another 10% said it made no difference, while 10% were unsure. Among independent voters, 52% said it helps, while 26% said it would hurt. Among women, 48% said it would help, while 29% said it would hurt the GOP ticket. Among Republicans, the choice was a big hit - as 87% said it would help, and just 3% said it would hurt.

The interactive survey shows that 22% of those voters who supported Democrat Hillary Clinton in their primary elections or caucus earlier this year are now supporting John McCain.

Among those who said they shop regularly at Wal-Mart - a demographic group that Zogby has found to be both "value" and "values" voters - Obama is getting walloped by McCain. Winning 62% support from weekly Wal-Mart shoppers, McCain wins these voters at a rate similar to what President Bush won in 2004. Obama wins 24% support from these voters.

[the4thpip]

It's important to note that the Gallup poll is a 3 day average, so the full effect of the Palin nomination hasn't been included in it yet. Conversely, the Zogby poll is entirely post-announcement numbers, and shows a significant bounce for McCain because of it.

As I pointed out, Bree linked to an outdated poll. The current one showed a narrower lead for Obama, but it was still 6 points post Palin.

Rasmussen also has a relatively strong lead for Obama considering their previous polling, and shows no Palin effect at all.


Monday, September 01, 2008


The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Barack Obama attracting 47% of the vote while John McCain earns 44%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 49%, McCain 46%. Those figures are unchanged from yesterday and little changed over the past several days

[FalconX2000]

The Sarah Pallin announcement is still competing with that awesome convention speech from Obama, so Sam's framing it the situation a little wrong imo. It's meant to kill perception of momentum for the Dems, not build its own for the Republicans (though it seems to have 'energised' the base somewhat).

[PatrickG]

Not to mention sodomy is pretty popular nowadays...


what?:tongue:



http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/08/in_ohio_obama_says_he_will_act.html
Well, it's not like Obama ain't considering something similar:

Q: Senator what (inaudible) (will you be reaching out to your million donors after the hurricane for financial support)

BO: what we want to do is we want to find out first from folks on the ground what is going to be most helpful. We don't want to solicite a bunch of canned goods that cant get there, or bottles of water and then learn that they already have water. So we are going to wait over the next 48 hours to find out what would be the most useful. I think we can get tons of volunteers to travel down there if it becomes necessary. So it becomes a question of what people on the ground need and once we determine that then we can activate our email list of a couple of million people who want to give back.

Q: Could that include cash

BO: Absolutely

It'll be great to see McCain at ground zero of a Hurricane delivering his acceptance speech via satellite only to be preempted as Obama descends in a collapsing Republican convention center on a rope, carrying out the delegates two at a time.

Seriously... What a weird election when Obama delivers his speech from a Greek temple with patriotic power rock segues... and McCain, not to be outdone, suspends his party's convention and then delivers an acceptance speech from the eye of a hurricane with country music blaring.

Meanwhile, three of the four Presidential/Vice-Presidential candidates are actually upper middle class people rather than old money.


- One was a PTA mom in a town of 7000 just two years ago.

- Another began his political career flat broke and taking a $2000 bonus to buy a car to move to Chicago.

- Two are law professors.

- One has ties to the Weatherman Underground and another actually made anti-American propaganda tapes in Vietnam.

- Both presidential candidates are smokers. One has had five bouts with cancer.

- Both major parties are running legislators against eachother.

- Within the next four years, we're almost certain to have our first African American or female president.

Anybody ever stop to consider how bizarre this all is?

[PatrickG]

Believe it or not, they are out of business...

Actually, they just switched to an online-only format.

Last I checked, they had quite a few DC Comics alumni contributing.

One can only hope that Grant Morrison goes to work for the supermarket tabloids someday.

[the4thpip]

McCain is being swiftboated by some of the original swiftboaters. :confused:

Two-tour Green Beret Ted Sampley, who helped "Swift Boat" Democrat John Kerry in the 2004 presidential race, is now gunning for the GOP White House hopeful.

The organizer of Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain claims the Purple Heart-winning former POW has "never admitted the full extent to which he cooperated with his captors." Sampley also charges that, in the 1990s, the "unstable" McCain, whom he calls "the Manchurian Candidate," ignored "credible evidence" that American POWs were still alive in Southeast Asia.

"He wanted to normalize relations with Vietnam," Sampley tells us. "He took away the only leverage we had for getting those soldiers back. Why? He was paying back the Vietnamese for keeping quiet about him."

McCain has called Sampley a profiteering "enemy of the truth" and "one of the most despicable people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter." (Sampley was jailed after beating up McCain aide Mark Salter outside McCain's Senate office in 1992.)

Though he's no fan of Barack Obama, Sampley says Fox News producers haven't invited him on to bash McCain the way he bashed Kerry. But Sampley is finding other comrades. Former POW Phillip Butler asserts that McCain "allows the media to make him out to be the hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true."

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/08/25/2008-08-25_vietnam_vets_stirring_up_a_mccain_mutiny.html

[KevinTBrown]

Alleged photo of Gov. Palin and family from March 9th, 6 weeks prior to the baby being born:

http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/687-3504039.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg

Curse you, Alaskan vest wearers! You make everything confusing!

No fucking way is Sarah Palin pregnant in that picture. It's incredibly obvious the daughter is the one who's pregnant in that pic.

I just do not understand the need to lie about something like that. I'd have more respect for someone if they said they're going to raise the child as their own no matter the circumstances. So what if her daughter got pregnant at 14/15? It happens. Though I am pro-choice, I feel she did the right thing in not aborting the child.

[Infra-Man]

Believe it or not, they are out of business...

The day that the Weekly World News goes out of business is the day I cry for three straight hours.

[K-DoG7p7]

Alleged photo of Gov. Palin and family from March 9th, 6 weeks prior to the baby being born:

http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/03/09/01/687-3504039.standalone.prod_affiliate.7.jpg

Curse you, Alaskan vest wearers! You make everything confusing!

hasnt all that been debunked like.. yesterday (picture is apparently from 2006........)

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/08/30/dailykos-rumors-debunked-here-is-sarah-palin-pregnancy-photo-on-feb-10th-2008/

[Infra-Man]

Looks like the RNC has been scaled back tonight, which makes sense. I wonder how this affects the dynamics of the rest of the convention this week.

For the love of all that is tasteful, McCain should not make his acceptance speech in a disaster area. It will just seem crass and tacky.

[David Bedlam]

I am shocked and appalled that no one has posted this:

http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/20080901mooseburgers.png

[FalconX2000]

That is made of so much win.

[section 8]

Actually, they just switched to an online-only format.

Last I checked, they had quite a few DC Comics alumni contributing.

One can only hope that Grant Morrison goes to work for the supermarket tabloids someday.

Really? Who contributed?

I used to cut and paste headlines and article titles from WWN to create Letterhead stationary, ( I stole the idea from Hunter S Thompson)

[Samurai]

No fucking way is Sarah Palin pregnant in that picture. It's incredibly obvious the daughter is the one who's pregnant in that pic.

I just do not understand the need to lie about something like that. I'd have more respect for someone if they said they're going to raise the child as their own no matter the circumstances. So what if her daughter got pregnant at 14/15? It happens. Though I am pro-choice, I feel she did the right thing in not aborting the child.

Guess you haven't heard the latest news:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09012008/news/nationalnews/palin_admits_her_17_year_old_daughter_is_127025.ht m


PALIN ADMITS HER 17-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER IS PREGNANT
Reuters
Bristol Palin, right, is pregnant, her mother said today.

Last updated: 12:04 pm
September 1, 2008
Posted: 11:49 am
September 1, 2008

ST. PAUL -- The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.

Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.

Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.

"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the Palins' statement said.

"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support," the Palins said.

The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy.

"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates," the statement concluded.

MCCAIN KNEW

Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.

In the short period since she was announced last Friday, Palin has helped to energize the Republican Party's conservative base, giving the McCain camp fresh energy going into the campaign for the Nov. 4 election against Democrat Barack Obama.

McCain officials said the news of the daughter's pregnancy was being released to rebut what one aide called "mud-slinging and lies" circulating on liberal blog sites.

According to these rumors, Sarah Palin had faked a pregnancy and pretended to have given birth in May to her fifth child, a son named Trig who has Down syndrome. The rumor was that Trig was actually Bristol Palin's child and that Sarah Palin was the grandmother.

A senior McCain campaign official said the McCain camp was appalled that these rumors had not only been spread around liberal blog sites and partisan Democrats, but also were the subject of heightened interest from mainstream news media.

"The despicable rumors that have been spread by liberal blogs, some even with Barack Obama's name in them, is a real anchor around the Democratic ticket, pulling them down in the mud in a way that certainly juxtaposes themselves against their 'campaign of change,'" a senior aide said.

Copyright Reuters.

If she's 5 months pregnant, then she couldn't have had Trig...

[rick]

If she's 5 months pregnant, then she couldn't have had Trig...


The kids name is really Trig????

Geez, that's just retarded.

No...wait......put down that stick.....:eek:

[K-DoG7p7]

Guess you haven't heard the latest news:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09012008/news/nationalnews/palin_admits_her_17_year_old_daughter_is_127025.ht m




If she's 5 months pregnant, then she couldn't have had Trig...
all the myths about that baby has allready been debunked.. there are PLENTY of pictures of her with a Belleh! .. and NONE of her daughter

Also..



wait.. her daughter is preggers? sooo.. is she married? :biggrin:

[rick]

wait.. her daughter is preggers? sooo.. is she married? :biggrin:

No, she is not.

[Samurai]

all the myths about that baby has allready been debunked.. there are PLENTY of pictures of her with a Belleh! .. and NONE of her daughter

Also..



wait.. her daughter is preggers? sooo.. is she married? :biggrin:

They are engaged to be married.

And I guess they figured it was better to come out with it now than several months from now when she'll be really showing.

[K-DoG7p7]

No, she is not.

OHHHH!!!!! how embarrassing.. :biggrin:

[Infra-Man]

This does make me wonder, actually:

While the daughter's pregnancy has no bearing on politics and hence no one should care about it, I wonder if the evangelical base and the far right (the groups that Palin's nomination were meant to appeal to) will care.

[Samurai]

The kids name is really Trig????

Geez, that's just retarded.

No...wait......put down that stick.....:eek:
Wow, that play on words was pretty low, rick, even though you were joking...

[Samurai]

This does make me wonder, actually:

While the daughter's pregnancy has no bearing on politics and hence no one should care about it, I wonder if the evangelical base and the far right (the groups that Palin's nomination were meant to appeal to) will care.

Doesn't bother me 1 bit, but then, I'm not religious.

[Infra-Man]

You know, maybe I should have phrased that idea as: "I wonder if the evangelical base and the values voters (the groups that Palin's nomination were meant to appeal to) will care."

Because certainly she energizes those on the right, but not everyone on the right necessarily has those traditional-values notions of the value-voter types.

[the4thpip]

Gov. Palin is a strong proponent of teaching abstinence-only sex education to teenagers.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/gov-palin-says.html


So... would it be fair game for the host to ask her about that policy in the debate?

[rick]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/gov-palin-says.html


So... would it be fair game for the host to ask her about that policy in the debate?


Most certainly it would be fair game.

[K-DoG7p7]

sooo... the baby daddy works for mccain?... interesting

[king mob]

The kids name is really Trig????

Geez, that's just retarded.

No...wait......put down that stick.....:eek:

I'm still trying to past someone called 'Bristol'.

[Infra-Man]

Most certainly it would be fair game.

Fair game for the debate moderator, but the Obama campaign ought to get the word out to all of its operatives and surrogates to decline comment on this situation. They need to avoid stuff like the mixed-message Friday when Palin got the nom.

[the4thpip]

Fair game for the debate moderator, but the Obama campaign ought to get the word out to all of its operatives and surrogates to decline comment on this situation. They need to avoid stuff like the mixed-message Friday when Palin got the nom.

Would it be wrong if they just had Chelsea Clinton do some campaign events in a tight sweater?

No? Too soon?

[LtMarvel]

Um, I just watched a conspiracy laced episode of Law & Order/Homicide so...

How do we know the daughter is 5 months preggers and not, say, 3...

[the4thpip]

Um, I just watched a conspiracy laced episode of Law & Order/Homicide so...

How do we know the daughter is 5 months preggers and not, say, 3...

Well you know, there is very little else to do in Alaska when you're bored.

[LtMarvel]

Well you know, there is very little else to do in Alaska when you're bored.
SPORTS! Play bball just like mama!

*Looks at wife's family*...and the hubby to be better not be in his mid 20s!

Sigh...

Now I have my eye on my daughter....No way am I letting her get mono when she is 17....

[FalconX2000]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=183509&title=Barack-Obama:-He-Completes-Us

The...ahem...alternate Obama intro video, courtesy of Jon Stewart.:biggrin:

[FalconX2000]

(My name here)

Today, the thoughts and prayers of all Americans are with those in the path of Hurricane Gustav -- and many of you are asking what you can do to help.

We do not yet know what the impact of Hurricane Gustav will be, and we hope with all our hearts that the damage will not be as great as it was three years ago.

But we know there will be damage, and there is something you can do right now.

Your financial support will strengthen organizations like the American Red Cross that are evacuating Gulf Coast residents and planning to help communities get back on their feet.

Make a donation to support the American Red Cross today.

At times like this, it is our compassion and resilience that define who we are as a nation.

Please give whatever you can afford, even $10, to make sure the American Red Cross has the resources to help those in the path of this storm:

https://donate.barackobama.com/redcross

Thank you for your generosity, and I hope you will join Michelle and me in praying for the safety of those in the path of the storm and the first responders who are doing all they can to ensure the safety of their communities.

Barack

DONATE TO THE RED CROSS





Was the email I received 30 seconds ago.

[kingdom2000]

McCain is being swiftboated by some of the original swiftboaters. :confused:
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2008/08/25/2008-08-25_vietnam_vets_stirring_up_a_mccain_mutiny.html

Interesting. Once McCain reversed his opinion on torture I started to be highly suspicious of his own experience (nevermind how the narrative of it keeps changing). His reversal seemed to come not from political necessity but because he believes it works...because it worked on him. End of of itself, not important. Giving up information while tortured...I wouldn't blame him. The threat alone would probably have me singing like a bird. But his entire political career and his presidential run is built around this one event so the details are now important.

[kingdom2000]

Wow, that play on words was pretty low, rick, even though you were joking...

I will say it...the kid IS retarded. When did that word become a cuss word anyway?

[kingdom2000]

You know, maybe I should have phrased that idea as: "I wonder if the evangelical base and the values voters (the groups that Palin's nomination were meant to appeal to) will care."

Because certainly she energizes those on the right, but not everyone on the right necessarily has those traditional-values notions of the value-voter types.

Yeah they would. Evangelicals have a do as I say, not as a do mentality. If the story of the preggers girl (and wow that picture shows a prepper or oddly shaped fat girl) then she had a daughter that had a bastard child (no no), underage sex (no no), sex out of wedlock (no-no), and then finally lied to them all (probably the biggest no-no).

[the4thpip]

Yeah they would. Evangelicals have a do as I say, not as a do mentality. If the story of the preggers girl (and wow that picture shows a prepper or oddly shaped fat girl) then she had a daughter that had a bastard child (no no), underage sex (no no), sex out of wedlock (no-no), and then finally lied to them all (probably the biggest no-no).


From salon.com's war room blog:

Can you hear the silence? I realize it’s Labor Day, and conservatives are probably at Wal-Mart or their local Chamber of Commerce picnic, or whatever the heck they do to “celebrate” work and workers in America. But it is opening day of the Republican convention, so it's not like these folks are at the beach. And yet, there is a near-deafening silence from some on the Right to the Bristol Palin pregnancy announcement:

At the Weekly Standard, John McCormack merely re-prints, without comment, the two-paragraph announcement from the campaign. Kathryn Jean Lopez at the National Review’s Corner seems so befuddled she reprints a quote from somebody at Focus on the Family (James Dobson, presumably), but fails to attribute the quote (riddled with >’s)*, and offers no comment of her own beyond reprinting it. The McCain campaign blog has nothing at all about the announced pregnancy, as of 2:30 EST. Radio blabber Neal Boortz laments that “OMG, it's September 1 already,” which would seem to indicate he’s working today--but no mention of the Palin story there, either.

Ah, here we go: Michelle Malkin is on the job, saying the Palins choose life, but Malkin wants everyone to move on and leave Bristol alone. Which is a fine sentiment, if it didn’t smack of "please leave this story alone." To his credit, at least Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council issued a timely statement consistent with his group’s positions: "Unfortunately, teenage pregnancy has become all too common in today's society regardless of a family's economic or social status. It is problem that we remain committed to reducing through encouraging young people to practice abstinence. Fortunately, Bristol is following her mother and father's example of choosing life in the midst of a difficult situation. We are committed to praying for Bristol and her husband to be and the entire Palin family as they walk through a very private matter in the eyes of the public."

*Pastor Doesn't Preach [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

"In the 32-year history of Focus on the Family, we have offered > prayer, counseling and resource assistance to tens of thousands of > parents and children in the same situation the Palins find themselves > in. We have always encouraged the parents to love and support their > children and always advised the girls to see their pregnancies > through, even though there will of course be challenges along the way. > That is what the Palins are doing and they should be commended for > once again not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family > values, but in living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances. > > "Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect. Nor does it mean that > your children are perfect. But it does mean that there is forgiveness > and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord. I've > been the beneficiary of that forgiveness and restoration in my own > life countless times, as I'm sure the Palins have." > > "The media is already trying to spin this as evidence that Gov. Palin > is a 'hypocrite,' but all it really means is that she and her family are human. > They are in my prayers and those of millions of Americans."

[kingdom2000]

From salon.com's war room blog:



*Pastor Doesn't Preach [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

"In the 32-year history of Focus on the Family, we have offered > prayer, counseling and resource assistance to tens of thousands of > parents and children in the same situation the Palins find themselves > in. We have always encouraged the parents to love and support their > children and always advised the girls to see their pregnancies > through, even though there will of course be challenges along the way. > That is what the Palins are doing and they should be commended for > once again not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family > values, but in living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances. > > "Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect. Nor does it mean that > your children are perfect. But it does mean that there is forgiveness > and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord. I've > been the beneficiary of that forgiveness and restoration in my own > life countless times, as I'm sure the Palins have." > > "The media is already trying to spin this as evidence that Gov. Palin > is a 'hypocrite,' but all it really means is that she and her family are human. > They are in my prayers and those of millions of Americans."

Ok we got the political response (duh on the above considering the group). But I don't think the "base" vote is going to welcome the news as readily. Let's face it, if this happened to someone on the Dem ticket, McCains group would be doing a high five and breaking out the champagne right about now.

[Sabrinaset]

The base isn't going to really care, any more than there was a huge uprising over Cheney's kid being gay. This may come as a shock to some people. I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on somewhere over the state of what conservatives think and/or believe. The word "animus" comes to mind here for some odd reason. Heck, I *know* there's a lot of that based on this ...

Can you hear the silence? I realize it’s Labor Day, and conservatives are probably at Wal-Mart or their local Chamber of Commerce picnic, or whatever the heck they do to “celebrate” work and workers in America. But it is opening day of the Republican convention, so it's not like these folks are at the beach.

You know, with a little rewording, we could come up with something describing liberals as well, but I'm about to start the BBQ along with a few other of "These people" and the other "they's" so I'll let Buzz come up with something equally funny.

[the4thpip]

Obama's comment on Bristol's situation:

"Let me be a clear as possible: I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people's families are off limits, and people's children are especially off limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor, or her potential performance as a vice president.

"And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and, you know, teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off limits."

[the4thpip]

My god, she really is Dan Quayle with a better figure:

In 2006, the Alaska state branch of the right-wing Eagle Forum asked gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin if she was offended by the inclusion of the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance:

Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its [sic] good enough for me and I'll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in the late 19th century by a fellow named Bellamy (a Christian socialist no less!) as part of an effort to improve the circulation of the magazine he was with at the time and generally improve the condition of American boyhood, about which a certain amount of fretting was then underway about their collective constitution and resolve (widespread at the time; this was roughly around the same time Baden Powell started the scouting movement on your side of the pond).

So that's 100-plus years after the founding fathers were doing their thing. And even then, the words "under God" weren't inserted until the cold war, the better to highlight the difference between America and the Godless Russkies.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2008/sep/01/palin?gusrc=rss&feed=global

[Matt Doc Martin]

My god, she really is Dan Quayle with a better figure:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2008/sep/01/palin?gusrc=rss&feed=global

To be fair, it is an incredibly good figure.

But she is a political neophyte....this is the big leagues and she will not fare well.

[Infra-Man]

I'm convinced that these three were the heads of John McCain's VP vetting committee:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Monkey-typing.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8418/monkey3fs6.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8250/monkeyjz7.jpg


Vetting Committee Time for Bonzo

[kingdom2000]

The base isn't going to really care, any more than there was a huge uprising over Cheney's kid being gay.

Yeah good point, forgot about that. I remain amused by Cheney's hypocrisy in that area but otherwise don't give it any thought. I guess the same with Palin. She adovates abstinance only education, "family values" and so forth while having a child that is a walking example of why people like me says that crap doesn't work. New VP, same level of hypocrisy.

As for Obama doign the hand's off the kids. Good call. It IS a valid compaign point because of Palin's politically viewpoint and how she got into office (see above), but there is no good way to make those points without republicans changing the subject to "how dare you attack a 17 year old!!" The two are not one and the same but its real easy to sell the idea that they are.

[kingdom2000]

To be fair, it is an incredibly good figure.

But she is a political neophyte....this is the big leagues and she will not fare well.

I don't know. As VP her political crap doesn't really mean much. Cheney (and Qualye) pretty much showed that people don't really give that much thought about a VP. At most they tend to be an excuse for why to vote against someone but rarely the cause to vote for someone.

Considering how many people seem to just want to vote for a woman with no concern for political goals and views, I doubt she really hurt him at all. I doubt she will cause a bounce in the polls but shes will not drag them down. She is also a hot young women and like it or not she will get much more attention then Biden for that alone. Attention equals votes.

Basically keep the campaign commercials focused on McCain, have her out there looking pretty for the camera and talking to voters and keep her out of debates with Biden (and other confrontation types) and she should be a boom for the party in votes. IE use her as intended. Just a pretty face no different then some pretty cover model used to help sell magazines. In this case the cover just happens to be the republican party.

[kingdom2000]

Obama's comment on Bristol's situation:

The day that McCain would make such a public statement regarding family attacks would be the day hell froze over.

[Kevinroc]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/mccain-camp-didnt-search_n_122823.html

Apparently McCain's people didn't really vet Palin at all. Wow, that's pretty disastrous.

[kingdom2000]

Excellent comment (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/01/john-kerry-palin-choice-proves-mccains-a-prisoner-of-the-right-wing/) from Kerry on Palin and McCain. Where was this straight forward talking when he was running for office?

STEPHANOPOULOS: … Howard Wolfson, Senator Clinton’s former communications director, said that this pick might just work to draw women to the Republican ticket. Are you worried about that?

KERRY: Well, with all due respect to Howard, you know, I have much more respect for the Clinton supporters than that sort of quick- blush take with — I mean, how stupid do they think the Clinton supporters are, for Heaven sakes?

Do they think Clinton supporters supported Hillary only because she was a woman. For Heaven sakes, they supported Hillary because of all the things she’s fought for, because she fights for health care, which John McCain doesn’t support; she fights for children and children’s health care, which John McCain voted against; she fights for a windfall profits tax on the oil company, which John McCain opposes.

I mean, for Heaven sakes, the people who supported Hillary Clinton are not going to be seduced just because John McCain has picked a woman. They’re going to look at what she supports.

The fact that she doesn’t even support the notion that climate change is manmade — she’s back there with the Flat Earth Caucus. And I don’t see how those women are going to be fooled into believing — I think it’s almost insulting to the Hillary supporters that they believe they would support somebody who is against almost everything that they believe in.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK.

KERRY: What John McCain has proven with this choice — this is very important, George. John McCain wanted to choose Tom Ridge. He wanted to choose Joe Lieberman. He wanted to choose another candidate, but you know what? Rush Limbaugh and the right wing vetoed it.

And John McCain was forced to come back and pick a sort of Cheney-esque social conservative who’s going to satisfy the base. What John McCain has proven with this choice is that John McCain is the prisoner of the right wing, not a maverick.

As that Luyaya (can't remember name) has proven, sadly Kerry is wrong. There are some Hillary "supporters" that only care that Hillary (and Palin) are female. The rest is irrelevant in their worldview.

[Paul McEnery]

I don't know. As VP her political crap doesn't really mean much.

Sure it does. A McCain administration would go after women's reproductive rights, and Palin would have the casting vote in the Senate.

[kingdom2000]

Sure it does. A McCain administration would go after women's reproductive rights, and Palin would have the casting vote in the Senate.

I am aware of that, but referring to how the electorate generally views them. Just like many are not really considering the "heartbeat away" aspect of the job even though they should be.

[AllisterH]

Well duh.

Of course McCain wanted someone else. How long have I and others been saying that the right-wing conservative side of the Repubs DESPISE McCain.

There was NO way that they were going to support a pro-choice candidate like Ridge or Lieberman.

If the top of the ticket had been Huckabee, then sure I could see him picking up say Ridge as a way to appeal to the center.

But McCain (even though his actual votes place him firmly on the right) is ALREADY seen as a centrist by the party bedrock and people honestly thought he was going to antagonize them even more?

Little chance of that...

[KevinTBrown]

There are some Hillary "supporters" that only care that Hillary (and Palin) are female. The rest is irrelevant in their worldview.

Actually, Kerry isn't as wrong as you think. Yes, there are SOME Hillary supporters who only care that she's a woman, but the majority of them care more for what she stood for. The Palin pick is going to backfire on McCain if he's trying to gain the Hillary supporters. Palin's anti-abortion stance alone will see to that.

[BnL]

There was NO way that they were going to support a pro-choice candidate like Ridge or Lieberman.

At least not one that is pro-choice in public. According to this, (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Palin_opposed_sexed.html?showall) there is the implication that Palin's daughter was given the choice to abort.

[BnL]

Sarah Palin's mother-in-law uncertain about how she'll vote. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/08/30/2008-08-30_sarah_palins_motherinlaw_uncertain_about.html)

[Samurai]

An excellent comparison between Sarah and Barack:

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/08/30/sarah-palin-vs-barack-obama/

[LtMarvel]

An excellent comparison between Sarah and Barack:

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/08/30/sarah-palin-vs-barack-obama/
One worked to severely weaken the US by taking Alaska away from the US.

The other did not.

[CutterMike]

An excellent comparison between Sarah and Barack:

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/08/30/sarah-palin-vs-barack-obama/

So, was she, like, the ONLY Republican in Alaska that wasn't on the take...?

...Because I've NEVER seen a conservative site that was quite so eager to announce how many Republican officials were found to be corrupt bastards.

[FalconX2000]

Excellent comment (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/01/john-kerry-palin-choice-proves-mccains-a-prisoner-of-the-right-wing/) from Kerry on Palin and McCain. Where was this straight forward talking when he was running for office?

-snip-

It seems like failing as the democratic nominee is alot more healthy nowadays than it used to be. Kerry has transformed just like Gore did.:eek: :biggrin:


In other news...the convention seems to have bounced Obama in a whole range of areas. He's even trusted more on the issue of Iraq more than John McCain now. Again, only one poll, so mileage may vary.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-01-poll-monday_N.htm

[Nick Soapdish]

So, was she, like, the ONLY Republican in Alaska that wasn't on the take...?

...Because I've NEVER seen a conservative site that was quite so eager to announce how many Republican officials were found to be corrupt bastards.

What an excellent and completely unbiased comparison! And from a link provided by Sam!

I like the bit about her being mayor for 10 years - 1996-2002. Let's do the timewarp again!♫

Unsurprisingly, they also missed that she was for the bridge (as long as it had federal funds), specifically empathizing with the residents about how politicians called their town "Nowhere" to score points before she was against it.

Surprisingly, they did mention the suggestion about her administration using its power to protect her family (and thus officially making her an Alaska Republican, pending an investigation).

[FalconX2000]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090103164.html

Well....fuck.

[Jake V]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090103164.html

Well....fuck.

Which story are you referring to?

There's a few there.

[FalconX2000]

Which story are you referring to?

There's a few there.

The first one.

[the4thpip]

It's important to note that the Gallup poll is a 3 day average, so the full effect of the Palin nomination hasn't been included in it yet. Conversely, the Zogby poll is entirely post-announcement numbers, and shows a significant bounce for McCain because of it.

How about that CBS poll then?

Barack Obama and Joe Biden now lead John McCain and Sarah Palin by eight points, 48% to 40%, up from Obama’s three point lead before the convention. This is the first CBS News Poll to include the Vice Presidential candidates in the horserace question.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Aug08bPostDemConv.pdf

[the4thpip]

McCain's Short List Revealed (http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=14457)

[KevinTBrown]

This is too good to ignore, so I'm re-posting it here. The following is from Kandor Red (yes, it's his real name) over at Comic Bloc:

Holy God:

Palin has now announced that she's retaining a lawyer to represent her in the investigation of the fired police commissioner.

And she was apparently once a member of some party that advocates Alaska seceding from the United States.

Oh, and there's a bunch of stuff about her "maverickyness" and her honesty. (Claims to have been against the Bridge to Nowhere, but originally lobbied for it. Claims to be against earmarks but like any governor pushed for them for her state. Claims to be an opponent of indicted Senator Ted Stevens but served as chair of his freaking 527 committee. Wow.)

Dear God. What happened to that initial feel-good honeymoon period? The Republicans were supposed to be on offense this week, and instead they're mired in daytime TV they've produced themselves.

Friday: be introduced to nation as Vice-Presidential candidate.

Monday, noon: announce that your teenage daughter has gotten pregnant out of wedlock.

Monday, 5 pm: announce that you have lawyered up in an ethics investigation against you

Really?

Aside from the substance of any of the charges, two things are clear:

1) Palin has completely bungled her release of all of this information. It could all have been handled better, even the parts that may be serious. But she's not controlling the release of information at all. It's amateur hour, in the most self-destructive way.

Getting the lawyer should have happened before she became the running mate. So should the announcement of her daughter's pregnancy. There should have been a prepared explanation on her former membership in the secessionist party. And she should NOT have made claims about how she bucked the Republican establishment that could be demonstrated as lies before the end of a long weekend. Good gravy!

Think about the pregnant daughter: the five-months pregnant daughter. The election is two months away. If Palin didn't want to admit that her daughter was pregnant, how long did she think it would go unnoticed? Was she simply going to keep it hidden until it couldn't be hidden any more? That's the absolute worst way to do it.

2) Something went terribly wrong with McCain's vetting process, because they clearly don't know any of these things and didn't have any plan for neutralizing them. So the choices are:

a.) McCain's people did not check this person out before she was chosen
b.) They checked her out, but are hopelessly incompetent
c.) They checked her out, but Palin was dishonest with them (which shouldn't have been possible if they were competent)

Just amazing. Two things are clear, though:

Sarah Palin pretty much stopped being a rising star in the Republican Party on Monday

and

John McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, will never run another Presidential campaign in his life.

http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1301369&postcount=532

[the4thpip]

http://wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/fail-sarah-palin1.jpg

[Major Comma]

I think its a little premature to say she is politically dead just yet.
This campaign will be a challenge for her .
Before I judge her I want to see how she handles it.
She hasent given many interviews yet,
I want to see how she respond to all of this.

[Matt Doc Martin]

McCain's Short List Revealed (http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=14457)

As impartial as the one Samurai shared, but far more entertaining.

[Infra-Man]

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis: We vetted Sarah Palin and even conducted an FBI background check.

The FBI: "In general, we do not do vetting for political campaigns except as it might regard investigations needed for security clearances."

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/palin_and_the_fbi_background_c.php


The facepalm express continues.

[the4thpip]

I think its a little premature to say she is politically dead just yet.
This campaign will be a challenge for her .
Before I judge her I wanto see how she handles it

Isn't it almost refreshing?
After 8 years of Amerika über alles, and demands for blind loyalty - we get a Veep who has been, in her past, Anti-American (secession party) and anti-Republican (support for Reform Party candidate Pat Buchanan).

[FalconX2000]

This is too good to ignore, so I'm re-posting it here. The following is from Kandor Red (yes, it's his real name) over at Comic Bloc:



http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1301369&postcount=532

As Dan Abrams pointed out, its actually common sense for Palin to get a lawyer while under investigation (seperate issue we all know about), but you guys are right; amateur hour.


McCain's Short List Revealed (http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=14457)

Priceless.:biggrin:



As for my own contribution, Sarah Palin's wiki got a major makeover hours before the VP announcement, with some descriptions that are probably not objective:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4653971.ece

Given that it was done before the announcement, which took everyone by surprise, I don't see how it could possibly be from anyone besides a McCain campaign insider. Of course, wiki kept track of the identity of the editor like any other. Cyber amateurs...:rolleyes: Though great eyes from whoever spotted it.

[KevinTBrown]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Quotables: Aides to Mr. McCain said they had a team on the ground in Alaska now to look more thoroughly into Ms. Palin’s background. A Republican with ties to the campaign said the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday, a day before Mr. McCain stunned the political world with his vice-presidential choice. The campaign was still calling Republican operatives as late as Sunday night asking them to go to Alaska to deal with the unexpected candidacy of Ms. Palin.

Emphasis mine.