Secret Invasion: When were the heroes switched? *Spoilers*

[SeritoNiN]

Blackbolt - In Illuminati # 1 of 5, the heroes never "saved" him from being captured, he just appeared on panel

Dr. Strange - While not a confirmed skrull, Bendis has made it known that " more than one may have been switched", which is basically saying, more have been. Strange, in the same issue as Blackbolt, is never "saved", he just appears on panel stating they can't leave without the eye of agmotto.

Spider-Woman - I think Spider-Woman was switched at the end of New Avengers # 2 and the start of issue # 3, the first two issues she had brown eyes, her first appearance in issue 3, they're green, as are jarvis' in that same issue. I think the prison break was a diversion, as was sauron, for switching her, see, I can do one better, they still dont know who sent her, Matt Murdoch or Foggy Nelson to go get sentry, they claimed it was Reed Richards, but somewhere between NA issue's 7-11 Stark asks Reed about it and Reed claims he never sent anyone to get the Sentry, seems to me it was a set-up, the whole thing, you also add in the mysterious figure who set up the prison break in issue # 1 and it all seems to make sense. I think it was a huge set-up by the skrulls to get Jessica into the prison and have her switched during all the mayhem.

Jarvis - Not sure when Jarvis was switched, but I do know, upon his return to the Avengers, in NA # 3, he had a green hanky in his coat pocket and green eyes and spoke of " coming back from vacation", this I would say is the skrull Jarvis 1st appearance.

Hank Pym - Hank had to of died in Avengers:Initiative # 9, he can't shrink to the molecular level they claim he did, it's known, I believe he was replaced upon dying in issue # 9.

We know about Dum Dum Duggan being replaced just after Cap died.

But when was Nick Fury's girlfriend replaced?

And as we learn about other skrulls, we can converse about when they were possibly replaced as well.

They don't all have to be the 4 or 5 known skrulls, even people you feel are skrulls, who have yet to be proven to be, back it up with your theory of how and when they were replaced. =)

And what about villans? Were any of them replaced? And where?

[Bingo!]

Blackbolt - In Illuminati # 1 of 5, the heroes never "saved" him from being captured, he just appeared on panel

Dr. Strange - While not a confirmed skrull, Bendis has made it known that " more than one may have been switched", which is basically saying, more have been. Strange, in the same issue as Blackbolt, is never "saved", he just appears on panel stating they can't leave without the eye of agmotto.

Spider-Woman - I think Spider-Woman was switched at the end of New Avengers # 2 and the start of issue # 3, the first two issues she had brown eyes, her first appearance in issue 3, they're green, as are jarvis' in that same issue. I think the prison break was a diversion, as was sauron, for switching her, see, I can do one better, they still dont know who sent her, Matt Murdoch or Foggy Nelson to go get sentry, they claimed it was Reed Richards, but somewhere between NA issue's 7-11 Stark asks Reed about it and Reed claims he never sent anyone to get the Sentry, seems to me it was a set-up, the whole thing, you also add in the mysterious figure who set up the prison break in issue # 1 and it all seems to make sense. I think it was a huge set-up by the skrulls to get Jessica into the prison and have her switched during all the mayhem.

Jarvis - Not sure when Jarvis was switched, but I do know, upon his return to the Avengers, in NA # 3, he had a green hanky in his coat pocket and green eyes and spoke of " coming back from vacation", this I would say is the skrull Jarvis 1st appearance.

Hank Pym - Hank had to of died in Avengers:Initiative # 9, he can't shrink to the molecular level they claim he did, it's known, I believe he was replaced upon dying in issue # 9.

We know about Dum Dum Duggan being replaced just after Cap died.

But when was Nick Fury's girlfriend replaced?

And as we learn about other skrulls, we can converse about when they were possibly replaced as well.

They don't all have to be the 4 or 5 known skrulls, even people you feel are skrulls, who have yet to be proven to be, back it up with your theory of how and when they were replaced. =)

And what about villans? Were any of them replaced? And where?

I like this.

Dr Strange - while I personally believe he's a Skrull, there are two others who would fit. Reed is definitely not a Skrull. BB is dead. Stark is 100% not Skrull. That leaves Namor, Xavier, and Strange. The best two candidates are Xavier or Strange. Xavier was exceptionally out of character during Illuminati. Strange has been MIA for some time now. Where the heck is he?

Spider-Woman - this is very reasonable. I noticed that change in eye color too. During the Raft Breakout in NA3, Drew has brown eyes. Later that issue, when Cap invites Drew to join the team, she clearly has green eyes. In NA4, Drew and Jarvis have a moment together. Though, some say she was switched during the NAs encounter with Skrullektra.

Jarvis - You're correct!

Hank Pym - I suspect he was replaced much earlier. He's actually gone to sub-atomic levels twice before. I wonder if this means he's been replaced twice before, or if he's been the same Skrull the entire time.

[Jmacq1]

Contessa/Nick's Girlfriend: I don't think she was replaced, per se.

More likely: The Skrulls sent a duplicate after Nick, and meanwhile the real Contessa got shipped off to Europe (and demoted) by Maria Hill, as seen in the not-so-long ago "Union Jack" mini-series.

In fact, Maria Hill's "shipping off/demotion" of Contessa could have been Skrull-engineered to keep her busy/away from Nick while their duplicate tried to figure out how much he knew. Not to mention that demoting a Skrull-Contessa wouldn't make much sense if she could've basically been in charge of SHIELD herself (assuming the Skrulls are pulling SHIELD's strings).

Then again, maybe Maria Hill is actually a wild-card whose "screw ups" are actually hurting the Skrull invasion more than she realizes...that'd be terribly amusing to me. ;)

[Magneto Rocks]

Dr. Strange - While not a confirmed skrull, Bendis has made it known that " more than one may have been switched", which is basically saying, more have been.

Actually, I'd say it's more or less saying "More have NOT been". I think Night Nurse is a Skrull but Bendis was just taking Strange off the table for the start of Secret Invasion. Remember, Bendis wants our paranoia! He refused to say Tony Stark isn't a Skrull despite the fact that Brevoort said he si not, there's no way Bendis is going to rule out groups when he can provoke fan speculation and paranoia instead, as in this case.


Jarvis - Not sure when Jarvis was switched, but I do know, upon his return to the Avengers, in NA # 3, he had a green hanky in his coat pocket and green eyes and spoke of " coming back from vacation", this I would say is the skrull Jarvis 1st appearance.

While the eyes mean nothing and we really need to stop using them, I agree on the timing here. It would be nice symbolically if the real Jarvis had died at the same time as the Avengers, or shortly thereafter. Sad, but nice.


Hank Pym - Hank had to of died in Avengers:Initiative # 9, he can't shrink to the molecular level they claim he did, it's known, I believe he was replaced upon dying in issue # 9.

No way, I think he DEFINITELY died beforehand. There's absolutely no point in having a big character like Hank swapped out if you're going to reveal he's only been switched out for like a month. I say end of Civil War at absolute earliest, probably since Disasembled.

[Jmacq1]

That's a good point. Hank went off to care for comatose-Jan at the end of Disassembled...perfect point to have had him swapped out.

[Haquim]

I doubt Strange was switched, unless Bendis has NO knowdlege at all about the character. Strange has a pact with friking ETERNITY (so he cannot die, unless he chooses to do so) and is on speaking level terms with the LIVING TRIBUNAL and the Vishanti. I REALLY doubt the skrull could have duplicated some of the things Strange did in the period between Illuminati #1 and today.
And to use the eye of Agamoto you need to be the real Strange too...

[Jmacq1]

I doubt Strange was switched, unless Bendis has NO knowdlege at all about the character. Strange has a pact with friking ETERNITY (so he cannot die, unless he chooses to do so) and is on speaking level terms with the LIVING TRIBUNAL and the Vishanti. I REALLY doubt the skrull could have duplicated some of the things Strange did in the period between Illuminati #1 and today.
And to use the eye of Agamoto you need to be the real Strange too...

To be honest, none of those things are exactly everyday commonplace knowledge. I didn't know any of them until just now. Admittedly, I'm not a regular follower of Dr. Strange's adventures, but Bendis isn't exactly known for exhaustive research.

[Wonder Dude]

I think Hank Pym was switched out back when he became Yellowjacket.

[Jmacq1]

I think Hank Pym was switched out back when he became Yellowjacket.

That'd be an awfully bold move, because basically it makes Hank Pym (if he's still alive) almost a blank slate. No mental breakdowns, no beating his wife, etc....

He'd still have created Ultron, which is bad enough, but 90 percent of the other things people know the character for would be tossed out the window.

[Beast]

When Hank Pym was replaced was made pretty clear when the cover for Mighty Avengers #15 was revealed a little while ago. Along with the solicit we can tell that he was replaced during Avengers: Disassembled. He must have been replaced by the Skrull that was glimpsed during the chaos.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/MightyAvengers15.jpg


MIGHTY AVENGERS #15
COVER BY: MARKO DJURDJEVIC
WRITER: BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS
PENCILS: KHOI PHAM
COLORED BY: JASON KEITH
LETTERED BY: DAVE LANPHEAR

THE STORY: SECRET INVASION TIE-IN!
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO-----? Rewinding the clock to Avengers Dissassembled we reveal how one of the main players in SECRET INVASION was replaced by a Skrull and what the fallout has been. A major SECRET INVASION chapter is here! Oh, but you want to know exactly who we're talking about right? Spoilers, dude!
Rated A …$2.99

[Wonder Dude]

I think that the Skrulls have been around on Earth since they first appeared. There's no reason to think they haven't.

[Beast]

I think that the Skrulls have been around on Earth since they first appeared. There's no reason to think they haven't.
Yeah, but we know their ability to escape detection is a more recent event.

The first replacement test is still clearly Elektra, around the time of Enemy of the State.

[Random Remarks]

Blackbolt - In Illuminati # 1 of 5, the heroes never "saved" him from being captured, he just appeared on panel

Dr. Strange - While not a confirmed skrull, Bendis has made it known that " more than one may have been switched", which is basically saying, more have been. Strange, in the same issue as Blackbolt, is never "saved", he just appears on panel stating they can't leave without the eye of agmotto.

Spider-Woman - I think Spider-Woman was switched at the end of New Avengers # 2 and the start of issue # 3, the first two issues she had brown eyes, her first appearance in issue 3, they're green, as are jarvis' in that same issue. I think the prison break was a diversion, as was sauron, for switching her, see, I can do one better, they still dont know who sent her, Matt Murdoch or Foggy Nelson to go get sentry, they claimed it was Reed Richards, but somewhere between NA issue's 7-11 Stark asks Reed about it and Reed claims he never sent anyone to get the Sentry, seems to me it was a set-up, the whole thing, you also add in the mysterious figure who set up the prison break in issue # 1 and it all seems to make sense. I think it was a huge set-up by the skrulls to get Jessica into the prison and have her switched during all the mayhem.

Jarvis - Not sure when Jarvis was switched, but I do know, upon his return to the Avengers, in NA # 3, he had a green hanky in his coat pocket and green eyes and spoke of " coming back from vacation", this I would say is the skrull Jarvis 1st appearance.

Hank Pym - Hank had to of died in Avengers:Initiative # 9, he can't shrink to the molecular level they claim he did, it's known, I believe he was replaced upon dying in issue # 9.

We know about Dum Dum Duggan being replaced just after Cap died.

But when was Nick Fury's girlfriend replaced?

And as we learn about other skrulls, we can converse about when they were possibly replaced as well.

They don't all have to be the 4 or 5 known skrulls, even people you feel are skrulls, who have yet to be proven to be, back it up with your theory of how and when they were replaced. =)

And what about villans? Were any of them replaced? And where?

From what we have seen so far I doubt that anybody was replaced more that 2 or 3 years ago in comic time or 5-10 years ago in "real time" unless time travel is involved as the undetectable skrulls appear to be a relatively new invention. For that reason I think that Black Bolt was replaced relatively recently probably around the time of World War Hulk. For the same reason I suspect that if Doctor Strange has been switched it was relatively recently though I suspect Night Nurse as being the skrull infiltrator.

Moving on I agree with Magneto Rocks that people should stop using eye colour as a guide to skrulliness. I doubt that the skrulls are going to go to the trouble of making themselves completely undetectable and mess up on the detail of eye colour note that in the secret war TPB the eye colour of Jessica Drew is given as GREEN in the SHIELD operations database, therefore using the logic that wrong eye colour is a sign of skrulliness, Jessica Drew in #1 and #2 was a skrull but from #3 onwards wasnt a skrull. Unless the eye colour changes as a sign of being activated then I take any discrepancies in eye colour as artist/colourist error.

Going back on topic, Jessica Drew I suspect that if she was switched out it was probably after House of M as in House of M she argues for keeping the status quo which IMO would be worse for the skrulls given the massive rise in the number of mutants. The exception being if she was a sleeper skrull like some of the 70s heroes appear to be. Nick Fury was also keeping tabs on her until around the time of Civil War making a substitution difficult unless it was done pre contact. If she has been switiched then I suspect it was after the start of the CIvil War and before the New Avengers go to Japan to rescue Echo.

As for Jarvis I suspect that it was either during his vacation or after he is injured in NA#25 (?)

Slightly off topic but have the identity of any living long term infiltration skrulls (i.e. Elektra, Hank Pym etc opposed to short term tasks like Ms Marvel and Daredevil) been revealed to the heroes in the books since with the exception of Dum Dum Dugan as far as I am aware all the remaining skrulls cover identities are still a mystery to the heroes in the comics and Mr Fantastic is not exactly in a position to tell anyone about Hank Pym. I have not yet read SI#2 so I dont know if Iron Man worked out it was Jarvis who betrayed him

[CaptainCanada]

Blackbolt - In Illuminati # 1 of 5, the heroes never "saved" him from being captured, he just appeared on panel

Dr. Strange - While not a confirmed skrull, Bendis has made it known that " more than one may have been switched", which is basically saying, more have been. Strange, in the same issue as Blackbolt, is never "saved", he just appears on panel stating they can't leave without the eye of agmotto.

Neither of those works, because the Skrulls didn't develop the detection-avoidance or power-replication abilities until around "Enemy of the State", so the Illuminati as a group got away without anybody being replaced.

The 'eye colour' thing is monumentally stupid, because the Skrulls are stressed to be totally undetectable, so having their eyes be coloured wrong is a dead giveaway.

[Bingo!]

Moving on I agree with Magneto Rocks that people should stop using eye colour as a guide to skrulliness. I doubt that the skrulls are going to go to the trouble of making themselves completely undetectable and mess up on the detail of eye colour note that in the secret war TPB the eye colour of Jessica Drew is given as GREEN in the SHIELD operations database, therefore using the logic that wrong eye colour is a sign of skrulliness, Jessica Drew in #1 and #2 was a skrull but from #3 onwards wasnt a skrull. Unless the eye colour changes as a sign of being activated then I take any discrepancies in eye colour as artist/colourist error.
Both of you are right. It's a failed no-prize attempt. I just want better clues! Having to wait for the SI tie-ins drives me crazy!

Slightly off topic but have the identity of any living long term infiltration skrulls (i.e. Elektra, Hank Pym etc opposed to short term tasks like Ms Marvel and Daredevil) been revealed to the heroes in the books since with the exception of Dum Dum Dugan as far as I am aware all the remaining skrulls cover identities are still a mystery to the heroes in the comics and Mr Fantastic is not exactly in a position to tell anyone about Hank Pym. I have not yet read SI#2 so I dont know if Iron Man worked out it was Jarvis who betrayed him
The only Skrulls the heroes know for certain are still Skrullektra and Black Bolt. Though suspicions are reaching a fever pitch in SI2.

[Venom Melendez]

I doubt Black Bolt was replaced that far back since the Skurlls started replacing people around New Avengers#1 and maybe Avengers Dissassembled. I mean wasn't Elektra Skrull that started doing it?

[SeritoNiN]

But Bendis stated in many interviews "not everyone made it off that ship" Blackbolt has obviously been a skrull for all this time and it's the perfect character to do so with, seeing as he has ZERO dialogue, no worries of inconsistency.

I agree, the green eyes are dumb to go by NOW, but I also think at first, they were a hint for us from Bendis. Jarvis had to be switched in NA # 3 and not # 25, because at the end of SI # 1 Joe Q states that Aunt May was dating a skrull Jarvis, which means he had to be replaced before issue # 25, as that's a civil war tie-in and peter/family moved into the avengers tower right before civil war.

I didn't see that solicit for Mighty Avengers # 15, looks nice, though I don't see hopw the skrull in the battle could be the one who turned into pym, if I remember correctly, pym wasn't even in the fight, he was at the hospital with wasp.

Nick Fury's girlfriend, I don't just bring her up for Mighty # 12, but also in the prelude to invasion, a skrull was posing as her as well, and we haven't seen her in quite a while. I just assumed she's been switched.

Anyone have any other idea's on who else is a skrull and when they were switched?

[Venom Melendez]

But Bendis stated in many interviews "not everyone made it off that ship" Blackbolt has obviously been a skrull for all this time and it's the perfect character to do so with, seeing as he has ZERO dialogue, no worries of inconsistency

Except he does talk to Medusa(sigh language dude) and she would have found out easily since they still hadn't did what ever it is they did to make them unditectable and the King started the project after they left and the started replacing people around the time the current queen took over.

[SeritoNiN]

Except he does talk to Medusa(sigh language dude) and she would have found out easily since they still hadn't did what ever it is they did to make them unditectable and the King started the project after they left and the started replacing people around the time the current queen took over.

Then why would Bendis state that "not everyone who left that ship is who they're claiming to be".

[Guest_1001]

Contessa/Nick's Girlfriend: I don't think she was replaced, per se.

More likely: The Skrulls sent a duplicate after Nick, and meanwhile the real Contessa got shipped off to Europe (and demoted) by Maria Hill, as seen in the not-so-long ago "Union Jack" mini-series.

In fact, Maria Hill's "shipping off/demotion" of Contessa could have been Skrull-engineered to keep her busy/away from Nick while their duplicate tried to figure out how much he knew. Not to mention that demoting a Skrull-Contessa wouldn't make much sense if she could've basically been in charge of SHIELD herself (assuming the Skrulls are pulling SHIELD's strings).

Then again, maybe Maria Hill is actually a wild-card whose "screw ups" are actually hurting the Skrull invasion more than she realizes...that'd be terribly amusing to me. ;)

I assumed it was a bit more basic than that and she was replaced just after the Union Jack miniseries. However, it was also noted that Contessa's phones were tapped and SHIELD agents were watching her around the clock . . .

. . . Maybe it was more complicated than I realised . . .

[CaptainCanada]

Because Bendis likes to mislead people in interviews to stir things up.

New Avengers #40 shows quite explicitly that the Skrulls lack the ability to successfuly replace a hero until a few years ago (publishing time); hence, Black Bolt was not replaced in Illuminati #1, nor was anyone.

[Pro]

I think that the Skrulls have been around on Earth since they first appeared. There's no reason to think they haven't.

I think all cows are really skrulls.

[CykeBD]

I agree with CaptainCanada. Reading New Avengers #40 makes it pretty obvious that they didn't have anything perfected to where they could replace any of the Illuminati. They said they gathered all the data and samples they needed to begin the process. So if it turns out that one was replaced, then that's a pretty big gaff on Bendis' part.

The replacement of Spider-Woman is a lot harder to pin down since every clue we've previously read could be a lie. She met with Nick Fury, but was that before she was a skrull? She then tells Tony that Fury has cut off communication with her when she brings him Skrullektra. Did he keep in communication in order to see if she was a skrull, and then cut ties once he knew? Or did he know she wasn't a skrull and then cut off communication when she was replaced? Or is she lying? Looks like we'll find out pretty soon though.

[SeritoNiN]

The skrulls always had the ability to shape shift, so I don't see why they couldn't take the place of someone like Blackbolt and just lay low for a while until they get word from the empire or another infiltrator with the right powers to go in as Blackbolt.

I could be wrong, I don't want to get into a huge flame about it, I'm enjoying the thread, so Union Jack series regarding Contessa, I'll have to check that out!

[SeritoNiN]

I agree with CaptainCanada. Reading New Avengers #40 makes it pretty obvious that they didn't have anything perfected to where they could replace any of the Illuminati. They said they gathered all the data and samples they needed to begin the process. So if it turns out that one was replaced, then that's a pretty big gaff on Bendis' part.

The replacement of Spider-Woman is a lot harder to pin down since every clue we've previously read could be a lie. She met with Nick Fury, but was that before she was a skrull? She then tells Tony that Fury has cut off communication with her when she brings him Skrullektra. Did he keep in communication in order to see if she was a skrull, and then cut ties once he knew? Or did he know she wasn't a skrull and then cut off communication when she was replaced? Or is she lying? Looks like we'll find out pretty soon though.

Personally, I'm thinking the more Fury found out, the more he saw the grand scope of the skrulls plan, the less he trusted any known name and just kind of went off into his own grabbing unknown heroes.

[Jadeskies]

It is possible that yellowjacket was replaced well before he was 'killed' by the explosion and that skrull was replaced by another skrull as he was in a key position that the skrulls could not afford to loose. If you can make one skrulljacket you can certainly make 2.

Also the green eyes thing may just be for 'artistic license', they may of been placed just so marvel could point to that issue and say, "See, we didn't make this up as we went, this was planned way back and X happened in issue Z." In other words no a Skrull doesn't have to have green eyes, but we as artists and editors added the green eyes to emphasise and illuminate a change. In the least we will get all those internet dweebs arguing over the color of eyes."

[Jmacq1]

I agree with CaptainCanada. Reading New Avengers #40 makes it pretty obvious that they didn't have anything perfected to where they could replace any of the Illuminati. They said they gathered all the data and samples they needed to begin the process. So if it turns out that one was replaced, then that's a pretty big gaff on Bendis' part.

The replacement of Spider-Woman is a lot harder to pin down since every clue we've previously read could be a lie. She met with Nick Fury, but was that before she was a skrull? She then tells Tony that Fury has cut off communication with her when she brings him Skrullektra. Did he keep in communication in order to see if she was a skrull, and then cut ties once he knew? Or did he know she wasn't a skrull and then cut off communication when she was replaced? Or is she lying? Looks like we'll find out pretty soon though.

Food for thought (and possibly a clue as to the timeframe of Jessica's replacement):

Depending on "when" she was replaced....Real-Jessica might have known how to get in touch with Fury, but Skrull-Jessica very well may not....Knowing Fury the methods of getting in contact are complicated/encoded/superspy-stuff/whatever. Unless the Skrulls managed to suck that information out of Jessica's head, Skrull-Jessica would likely be unable to duplicate those methods. Hence, loss of contact with Fury.

[Will.S]

When Hank Pym was replaced was made pretty clear when the cover for Mighty Avengers #15 was revealed a little while ago. Along with the solicit we can tell that he was replaced during Avengers: Disassembled. He must have been replaced by the Skrull that was glimpsed during the chaos.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/MightyAvengers15.jpg
Good analysis.

[Slaymaster]

I read the New Avengers (or was it Mighty Avengers?) story with Elektra-skrull saying how she was with Fury and Wolverine, and no one suspected her...

Got a problem with this story. I think she was refering to the 'Wolverine: Enemy of the State' story, and this doesn't jive because she gets killed by Gorgon and resurrected by the Hand. The 'catch' is, she would have reverted to skrull form then.

My continuity may be off, if anyone can refute this please do so.:confused:

[SeritoNiN]

I read the New Avengers (or was it Mighty Avengers?) story with Elektra-skrull saying how she was with Fury and Wolverine, and no one suspected her...

Got a problem with this story. I think she was refering to the 'Wolverine: Enemy of the State' story, and this doesn't jive because she gets killed by Gorgon and resurrected by the Hand. The 'catch' is, she would have reverted to skrull form then.

My continuity may be off, if anyone can refute this please do so.:confused:

Good analysis, Didn't read enemy of the state, maybe she wasn't switched quite then, Mighty Avenegrs # 16 will show us when she was switched.

[Legend437]

Implying that it is Pym who got switched to a skrull during the Dissambled area sometime, I guess that means during Civil War, when Pym, Tony, and Reed decided upon the Negative Zone and "42" or whatever it is, Pymskrull must've done all that work.

[sodarobber]

What doesn't make sense to me is when Jarvis is shot during Iron Man's segment of the New Avengers: Civil War storyline, why doesn't he revert back to Skrull form being near death and all? The only explanation for that would be that Skrulls don't change back unless dead.

Hm I guess its really true then that the only good Skrull is a dead Skrull.

[sodarobber]

Food for thought (and possibly a clue as to the timeframe of Jessica's replacement):

Depending on "when" she was replaced....Real-Jessica might have known how to get in touch with Fury, but Skrull-Jessica very well may not....Knowing Fury the methods of getting in contact are complicated/encoded/superspy-stuff/whatever. Unless the Skrulls managed to suck that information out of Jessica's head, Skrull-Jessica would likely be unable to duplicate those methods. Hence, loss of contact with Fury.

Something else to think about with the Real-Jessica is that Fury spoke with her about the Skrulls after Secret War, but she is suddenly astounded to see one at the end of NA #31, so one possible theory would be that she was replaced between Post Secret War and N.A. #1.

[Magneto Rocks]

Implying that it is Pym who got switched to a skrull during the Dissambled area sometime, I guess that means during Civil War, when Pym, Tony, and Reed decided upon the Negative Zone and "42" or whatever it is, Pymskrull must've done all that work.

More importantly, I think we all know who thought Clor would be a good idea now. ;)

Also, means absolutely no truly pro-reg person supported the cover-up and cloning at Camp Hammond. Out of the three morons there, we're left with the Nazi!

[bulbasteve]

Also, means absolutely no truly pro-reg person supported the cover-up and cloning at Camp Hammond. Out of the three morons there, we're left with the Nazi!

But I thought Gyrich was fired!

*rimshot*

Try the veal!

[fmyii]

I think Clones are going to be quite the confusion devise soon. CAP from the Skrull ship is definitely a clone. Just wait and see.

and we could end up with a whole "clones are the returned from the dead since forever" issue waiting after the SI. Who can tell this early though?

[g-dawg]

excuse me for being a bit of a noob, but I'm sort of concerned with all of the supposed 'dying' the replaced characters have done. Hank Pym dead? Jarvis dead? Those are major characters, and while comic books ain't exactly the place to see dead stay dead, the very fact that Marvel is willing to step up and kill major characters left and right is at its worst frightening.

Where does it say that the replaced heroes are dead?

[Mr.EZ]

I don't know when they were replaced, but I do know that Black Bolt, Elektra, Hank Pym, Dum Dum, The Contessa, Jarvis and Spider-Woman are being held somewhere, and I'd bet they're pretty pissed about it.

Especially Jarvis. That guy's a psycho.

[SeritoNiN]

This is interesting, if Pym was switched during dissassembled, (I'd assume it was between Avengers #503 and the Finale issue where he and jan leave the country for a while) then this puts a whole new scope on the civil war and clor, 42/negative zone, camp hammond....very interesting. Maybe Pym was a skrull even further back, maybe it was a skrull that bitch slapped jan, cause skrulls don't take no lip. HA.

[CykeBD]

I find it funny how skrull-Pym had to save Tony from Ultron in the first Mighty Avengers story. You know that's going to come back and bite the skrulls in the butt. But I guess they didn't want a nuked planet, so what can ya do?

I like the theory about skrull Spider-Woman not knowing how to get in touch with Fury. In that case would she have been replaced after her arc in New Avengers? Cause she said she was in contact with Fury then, I think. I need to re-read those issues again.

[Beast]

This is interesting, if Pym was switched during dissassembled, (I'd assume it was between Avengers #503 and the Finale issue where he and jan leave the country for a while) then this puts a whole new scope on the civil war and clor, 42/negative zone, camp hammond....very interesting. Maybe Pym was a skrull even further back, maybe it was a skrull that bitch slapped jan, cause skrulls don't take no lip. HA.
If he was a Sleeper Skrull, it would still mean that Pym is capable of doing all of that.

It's just giving the character an easy out for all the stuff he's done.

[Brock]

I don't know when they were replaced, but I do know that Black Bolt, Elektra, Hank Pym, Dum Dum, The Contessa, Jarvis and Spider-Woman are being held somewhere, and I'd bet they're pretty pissed about it.



It would be nice if they were all still kicking, but It really looked like Dum Dum was killed outright in that SI prologue story.

From the writers pov it might undermine the threat level of the Skrulls, if all their victims turned out to be conveniently alive at the end of the story.

So, to keep us happy without feeling cheated, Bendis and co might go for an even split, with Hank Pym, Jarvis, Blackbolt & Spider-Woman (plus any other big names) alive and The Contessa, Dum Dum and Elektra dead.

[Lord_Cal]

I think Spider-Woman was switched during the break out of the raft in NA #1. She was present as SHIELD liasson. The confusion during the break out would have been the perfect time to switch her out and replace her.

Dr.Strange may have been replaced durring the illuminati. It is known that Skrulls have mystics, how hard would it be to replace him, use a few spells for disguise and then claim your powers are weakened . Remember Strange is only a human, much easier to mimic.

[Legend437]

I'm wondering if Tigra is a skrull. Didn't she spend some time with Pym lately? Makes you wonder, especially since she pretty much instigated the whole New Avengers part where their base gets destroyed. Hmm....

[SeritoNiN]

I think Jessica Jones and/or baby are a skrull and were switched after New Avengers # 22 when they go to Canada to avoid the Civil War.

[joemagnum611]

I doubt Strange was switched, unless Bendis has NO knowdlege at all about the character. Strange has a pact with friking ETERNITY (so he cannot die, unless he chooses to do so) and is on speaking level terms with the LIVING TRIBUNAL and the Vishanti. I REALLY doubt the skrull could have duplicated some of the things Strange did in the period between Illuminati #1 and today.
And to use the eye of Agamoto you need to be the real Strange too...

Who says Strange is dead? Since the Skrulls can fool magic then they can fool the eye. They do have the heroes DNA s who knows

[joemagnum611]

Food for thought (and possibly a clue as to the timeframe of Jessica's replacement):

Depending on "when" she was replaced....Real-Jessica might have known how to get in touch with Fury, but Skrull-Jessica very well may not....Knowing Fury the methods of getting in contact are complicated/encoded/superspy-stuff/whatever. Unless the Skrulls managed to suck that information out of Jessica's head, Skrull-Jessica would likely be unable to duplicate those methods. Hence, loss of contact with Fury.

Well since it seems the Skrulls have the ability to gain the heroes memories then Skrullder Woman would still know how to contact Fury.

[Venom Melendez]

Who says Strange is dead? Since the Skrulls can fool magic then they can fool the eye. They do have the heroes DNA s who knows


But they can't fool eternity or the Tribunal.

[Venom Melendez]

I don't know when they were replaced, but I do know that Black Bolt, Elektra, Hank Pym, Dum Dum, The Contessa, Jarvis and Spider-Woman are being held somewhere, and I'd bet they're pretty pissed about it.

Especially Jarvis. That guy's a psycho.


Dum Dum was killed in the prologue though.

[Bingo!]

Well since it seems the Skrulls have the ability to gain the heroes memories then Skrullder Woman would still know how to contact Fury.
Not that there was a ever a consensus on a Queen Veranke and Spider-Woman name mash-up, but Skrullder-Woman sounds homely and unfit for a Queen who's led her people to their new homeland. May I suggest:

... we could go with Queen Spider-Skrull.

[spiderslime]

Skrullektra, I believe she was changed around the time of Gorgon killing her, simply swapping the corpse for one which appeared lifeless (if they can manipulate superpowers they can create a state of apparent death in an individual). Just the idea that Elektra was immune to the hand's brainwashing didn't work with me, I think it was some kind of skrull imbued immunity. Just an idea though.

[Cam Man]

There was awhile back when Wolvie was killed and turned out he had really been replaced by a Skrull only to come back for real. He's been pretty quiet about the whole incident during this whole arc. I would think he'd have some insight on where you're kept if replaced or how they do it. But so far he's been pretty mum. Does anybody know though why it happened in the first place? I'd like to see that mentioned as maybe a first failed attempt by the Skrulls to inflitrate Earth. If so that sets a hard time for when this whole inflitatrtion begins right? If Wolverine was the first of these agents then that tell us when to begin speculation.

Still waiting for Cage's baby and the infinity gems to have an impact. There were some panels of Cage's baby in NA that seemed to have no other purpose other than to show the kid had green eyes. Eye color has to have some part in all of this.

[CaptainCanada]

The skrulls always had the ability to shape shift, so I don't see why they couldn't take the place of someone like Blackbolt and just lay low for a while until they get word from the empire or another infiltrator with the right powers to go in as Blackbolt.

Professor X speaks for Black Bolt on a couple of occasions after he appears; they wouldn't have been able to fool him at that point (and Black Bolt gestures that he wants to use his powers on the escape, but is cut off from doing so).

[Cam Man]

In Illumaiti BB has absoluetely no idea that the Beyonder used to be an inhuman, and the rest of the team find it hard to believe that a King could forget one of his subjects so easily. Black Bolt guilty of being switched out then? Guilty of altzhimers? Maybe he was switched out in Illumaniti 1 by an inferior quick copy then replaced later by one of the superior imposters. With someone like BB it would be incrediebly difficult to ever hope to bag and tag him again.

[Haquim]

Who says Strange is dead? Since the Skrulls can fool magic then they can fool the eye. They do have the heroes DNA s who knows

For example because Strange is already 5000 years old... he fought in an interdimensional war (at the Vishanti side) for that long. I don't think any skrull could have lived that long or fooled the Vishanti (Agamoto being "all seeing" after all).
When you think of Strange you must think of someone able to wisthand an attack from Galactus and being told by big G he would love to see how long Strange could fight with him if he had the time (Infinity War)...
So: no way they replaced Strange in Illuminati 1, unless Bendis decided to ignore the last 20 years of Strange's continuity. He's too powerful/related with being of cosmic level.

[Venom Melendez]

In Illumaiti BB has absoluetely no idea that the Beyonder used to be an inhuman, and the rest of the team find it hard to believe that a King could forget one of his subjects so easily. Black Bolt guilty of being switched out then? Guilty of altzhimers? Maybe he was switched out in Illumaniti 1 by an inferior quick copy then replaced later by one of the superior imposters. With someone like BB it would be incrediebly difficult to ever hope to bag and tag him again.

Easy, Beyonder could have been making the whole thing up or he erased BB's and the rest of the Inhuman's minds when he got the power.

He's the freaking Beyonder for Pete's sake.

[CaptainCanada]

In Illumaiti BB has absoluetely no idea that the Beyonder used to be an inhuman, and the rest of the team find it hard to believe that a King could forget one of his subjects so easily. Black Bolt guilty of being switched out then? Guilty of altzhimers? Maybe he was switched out in Illumaniti 1 by an inferior quick copy then replaced later by one of the superior imposters. With someone like BB it would be incrediebly difficult to ever hope to bag and tag him again.
That was part of the ambiguity over whether the Beyonder was making the whole thing up or not; the entire impersonation thing hinges on the Skrulls being able to strip out the captives' memories, thus allowing for flawless impersonation.

[joemagnum611]

For example because Strange is already 5000 years old... he fought in an interdimensional war (at the Vishanti side) for that long. I don't think any skrull could have lived that long or fooled the Vishanti (Agamoto being "all seeing" after all).
When you think of Strange you must think of someone able to wisthand an attack from Galactus and being told by big G he would love to see how long Strange could fight with him if he had the time (Infinity War)...
So: no way they replaced Strange in Illuminati 1, unless Bendis decided to ignore the last 20 years of Strange's continuity. He's too powerful/related with being of cosmic level.

They wouldn't have to have replaced him for 5000 yrs this is recent. Maybe they found a way to defeat him. Everyone has a weakness and you can fool anything with his DNA and memories. They have been planning this for a long time so who knows

[Random Remarks]

If the skrulls can take everyones memories it raises the question why didnt they just grab Nick Fury as soon as they found him in MA#12 and get his passwords that way.

The maintaining shape mentally and physically may not mean that the memories are stolen as well but rather the way a person thinks has to be duplicated as well as their physical shape

[Bingo!]

There was awhile back when Wolvie was killed and turned out he had really been replaced by a Skrull only to come back for real. He's been pretty quiet about the whole incident during this whole arc. I would think he'd have some insight on where you're kept if replaced or how they do it. But so far he's been pretty mum. Does anybody know though why it happened in the first place? I'd like to see that mentioned as maybe a first failed attempt by the Skrulls to inflitrate Earth. If so that sets a hard time for when this whole inflitatrtion begins right? If Wolverine was the first of these agents then that tell us when to begin speculation.

Still waiting for Cage's baby and the infinity gems to have an impact. There were some panels of Cage's baby in NA that seemed to have no other purpose other than to show the kid had green eyes. Eye color has to have some part in all of this.

Wolverine isn't the only mutant remaining quiet about this incident. Prof X also never mentions this to the Illuminati. Nor does bring up the Skrull world full of Skrulls impersonating Earth heroes. Since Bendis is borrowing elements from this story, I'm assuming he wouldn't cherry pick one part and completely ignore the rest. Something is suspicious about Prof X and Wolverine's actions throughout the Illuminati, NA and SI.

As for Dr. Strange being a Skrull, my money is on either him or Xavier being one. If Strange is a Skrull, I think he's been one since before Civil War. As for Charles, I don't think Wanda ever brought Xavier back after HoM. A Skrull could easily have taken his place afterward Wanda wiped mutants off the planet. Bishop's bullet to Xavier's head may have shattered his memories, but I see another explanation. To me Legacy is similar to the recent Captain Marvel mini. Both characters are on a voyage to find out who they are. Both have incomplete memories, but know who they are supposed to be. Plus, this wouldn't be the first time Xavier has been replaced by a Skrull. (UXM 276)

[Haquim]

As for Dr. Strange being a Skrull, my money is on either him or Xavier being one.

Strange may be one only if that happened very recently (as explained above some of the things he did in recent years could not be duplicated, or skrulls would have never feared Galactus at all...). Unless Bendis ignores the last 20 years of Strange's continuity, if replaced this should have happened at the end of civil war.
Even so it's better they come out with a good explanation of how any skrull can defeat someone of Strange's power level...

[Bingo!]

Strange may be one only if that happened very recently (as explained above some of the things he did in recent years could not be duplicated, or skrulls would have never feared Galactus at all...). Unless Bendis ignores the last 20 years of Strange's continuity, if replaced this should have happened at the end of civil war.
Even so it's better they come out with a good explanation of how any skrull can defeat someone of Strange's power level...

If there's one thing we know Bendis is good at, it's leaving out important chunks of a story. It's really hard to rule anything out at this point. As we've seen the Skrulls are using a variety of tactics to replace and impersonate the heroes. When, how, and whether the Skrulls actually know they are Skrulls is still up in the air.

The only post I saw about Dr. Strange says he couldn't have been replaced in the Illuminati series. I don't think he was. I think the switch may have happened sometime before HoM. He is after all the pivotal character in explaining why Wanda couldn't have hex power and must be crazy.

[TradePaperbackTraitor]

Thanks to everyone who contributed. Fun reading. I need to go back to some of my issues and look for some of the moments mentioned in these responses.

[SeritoNiN]

Not sure when Pym was switched, personally. If it was during disassembled, I have a problem with that, his dialogue with jan in mighty avengers makes him too human, he shows too much concern and care for her (unless shes a skrull too) also in issue 7, or 8 of Avengers Initiative, the book opens up with him all beat up and talking to himself, and he refers to himself as hank. Not very skrull-like if you ask me. And the sleeper skrull theory is thrown out the window since he reverted to skrull form upon taking out reed in si # 1.

[CaptainCanada]

And the sleeper skrull theory is thrown out the window since he reverted to skrull form upon taking out reed in si # 1.
Uh, at a certain point, a sleeper reverts; that's the whole idea.

[vijay79]

:confused:
Strange may be one only if that happened very recently (as explained above some of the things he did in recent years could not be duplicated, or skrulls would have never feared Galactus at all...). Unless Bendis ignores the last 20 years of Strange's continuity, if replaced this should have happened at the end of civil war.
Even so it's better they come out with a good explanation of how any skrull can defeat someone of Strange's power level...


In MA, when Fury shoots Contessa in the head. At the moment of impact her blood is green. I mean the pic is the bullet entering and exiting, before she could actually be dead. Is this a way to tell a skrull? Cut Them? I doubt it because it would be too easy, but still. Whe Dr. Strange was stabbed by the Hand in NA, it was red blood, as well as when he was shot by the Hood.

Bleeds green = skrull? The only reason I don't think so is because green eyes don't equal skrull.

[SeritoNiN]

Uh, at a certain point, a sleeper reverts; that's the whole idea.

Gotta love the cockiness when a wizard boy corrects you. That oughta get you laid tonight, tubby. :rolleyes: