Post asburd Ideological situations.

[Acecool]

I thought it would be fun to collect these absurd anecdotes in one place. That and I can't think of anymore even though I've heard a bunch before.


FUN AT THE PEACE RALLY
When you meet a peacenik...
1. Approach ignorant moron talking about "peace" and saying that there should be "no retaliation".
2. Engage in brief conversation; ask if military force is appropriate.
3. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
4. Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because this would just cause a vicious circle of more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence."
5. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
6. When he is about to punch you back, point out that it would be a serious mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would "be awful and he should not cause more violence."
7. Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence.
8. Punch him in the face again, harder this time. Repeat steps 5 through 8 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.

[Samurai]

I thought it would be fun to collect these absurd anecdotes in one place. That and I can't think of anymore even though I've heard a bunch before.

Just what was absurd about that? :confused:

:biggrin:

[mattx110]

I thought it would be fun to collect these absurd anecdotes in one place. That and I can't think of anymore even though I've heard a bunch before.
I think the lesson learned might just be "sometimes it's necessary to punch you back" more than any greater analogous foreign policy lesson.

[Gilda Dent]

We seem to be deriving different lessons here. The lesson I got from that was "It's OK to beat up pacifists" or that one must use violence to prove that violence is necessary, which is somewhat circular reasoning at best.

Also, not to nitpick, but the war being protested currently by "ignorant moron peaceniks" isn't retaliation for anything. Iraq never attacked us. That was a terrorist group located in Afghanistan led by a Saudi. Attacking terrorist camps in Afghanistan was retaliation. Protests regarding Afghanistan have generally been of the sort that object to too few resources being devoted there due to the war in Iraq.

Also, in the scenario as presented, the bully who attacks the protester for having a different belief system to the point that he begins to hit back? It works better if as a metaphor if we cast the United States as the aggressor and the guy who hits back as Iraq. We invaded them.

Also, protesting a particular war doesn't necessarily make one a pacifist in one's own personal life, so it falls apart on that level as well.

Come to think of it, your original dilemma is really an absurd one. Well done.

[BoosterBronze]

The message I get from this is only engage in discourse with people so foolish and literal minded that one's own simplistic rebuttals seem profound.

[Dreadstar]

I don't get any messages from this.

Are you sure this thing's turned on?

[Charles RB]

I think the lesson learned might just be "sometimes it's necessary to punch you back" more than any greater analogous foreign policy lesson.

I think it might be "my ideological rivals are twats who can't think of a logical argument".

And the peacenik would be right!

[Josh S]

This thread is coming along really nicely.

[Rik Levins]

8. Punch him in the face again, harder this time. Repeat steps 5 through 8 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back.

...or until you notice that his peacenik friend with the video camera has the whole thing on tape, and now you are going to be sued for every penny you own...

[Super Hero Guy]

I can think of many ways the peacenik could resolve that problem without having to punch you. Rik Levins hasa good one. The guy could also, you know, run away instead of just stand there being punched...

[Spike-X]

I can think of many ways the peacenik could resolve that problem without having to punch you.

Sure. He could, for instance, go up to some guy he had a beef with years ago and start punching him for no reason, instead.

[StoneGold]

So what happens when you get arrested on battery charges?

[Pól Rua]

FUN AT THE PEACE RALLY
When you meet a peacenik...
1. Approach ignorant moron talking about "peace" and saying that there should be "no retaliation".
2. Engage in brief conversation; ask if military force is appropriate.
3. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
4. Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because this would just cause a vicious circle of more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence."
5. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
6. When he is about to punch you back, point out that it would be a serious mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would "be awful and he should not cause more violence."
7. Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence.
8. Punch him in the face again, harder this time. Repeat steps 5 through 8 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back..

You forgot step 9. Have you arrested for assault. There are sure to be plenty of cops around and I'm sure all his pals will have seen everything.
See, we live in a 'society' and punching people in the face as a gag isn't really cool.

It's the damnedest thing.


PS, Mobile Phone Cameras are good, aren't they?

[StoneGold]

You forgot step 9. Have you arrested for assault. There are sure to be plenty of cops around and I'm sure all his pals will have seen everything.
See, we live in a 'society' and punching people in the face as a gag isn't really cool.

It's the damnedest thing.

Someone owes someone a frosty chocolate milkshake...

[Pól Rua]

Someone owes someone a frosty chocolate milkshake...

Done and sorted.
Oh and I even used PROPER chocolate this time.

honest.

[Spike-X]

Just what was absurd about that? :confused:

:biggrin:
I think this right here is the most absurd part.

Sure, Samurai. It's perfectly fucking reasonable to go up to somebody and start punching them because you disagree with them ideologically.

[Pól Rua]

I think this right here is the most absurd part.

Sure, Samurai. It's perfectly fucking reasonable to go up to somebody and start punching them because you disagree with them ideologically.

Dude, it's not an ideological disagreement. He's giving aid and comfort to TERRORISTS! That means, he's a TERRORIST!
He wants to EAT YOUR CHILDREN because he HATES OUR FREEDOM!

What, do you AGREE WITH HIM or something?

[rick]

I think this right here is the most absurd part.

Sure, Samurai. It's perfectly fucking reasonable to go up to somebody and start punching them because you disagree with them ideologically.


I hate to point out the obvious, but despite all of Sams political issues, he does have a sense of humor.

[mattx110]

So what happens when you get arrested on battery charges?
Well, I presume they won't put him in the electric chair.







:biggrin:

[Sir Tim Drake]

You forgot step 9. Have you arrested for assault. There are sure to be plenty of cops around and I'm sure all his pals will have seen everything.
See, we live in a 'society' and punching people in the face as a gag isn't really cool.

It's the damnedest thing.

And the whole point of a "society" is you agree to give up some of your personal liberties, and in exchange, the government agrees to protect you from threats, like people who want to punch you in the face.

In other words, the whole point of a "society" is that when you get punched in the face, you can rely on the law and the justice system to protect you, rather than having to punch back.

If you're in a situation where you get punched in the face, and the only thing you can do to protect yourself is punch back, then you're not living in "society," you're living in a "state of nature."

[Acecool]

Revised absurd situation. (with reality added in)


FUN AT THE PEACE RALLY: PUNCHING THE PRAGMATIC PEACENIK
When you meet a pragmatic peacenik...
1. Approach "ignorant moron" talking about "peace" and saying that there should be "no retaliation".
2. Engage in brief conversation; ask if military force is appropriate.
3. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
4. Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because this would just cause a vicious cycle of more innocent deaths, which would piss off a huge number of poor, desperate young people, who would form the next generation of terrorists to attack us all over again."
5. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
6. When he is about to punch you back, point out that it would be a serious mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would "be awful and he should not cause more violence."
7. Wait for him to pledge not to commit additional violence.
8. React with surprise when he says, "I'm not a pacifist, you turd! Sometimes retributive violence is appropriate. But bombing an already-bombed out country is just plain stupid if it results in even more violence inflicted upon us over the next 30 years. Following a path to justice through diplomacy, economic development, police action and criminal trial will probably achieve our goals more efficiently in the long run."
9. Cry like a baby when he and his pragmatic peacenik (but not pacifist) pals wrestle you to the ground, call the police and charge you with assault.



or

FUN AT THE PEACE RALLY: PUNCHING THE PESKY ANARCHIST
When you meet a pesky anarchist...
1. Approach "ignorant moron" talking about "stopping the war" and saying that there should be "no U.S. military action."
2. Engage in brief conversation; ask if military force is appropriate.
3. When he says "Not now," ask, "Why not?"
4. Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because the U.S. military stands for multi-national corporate greed that stands in opposition to human needs..."
5. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
6. When he is about to punch you back, point out that it would be a serious mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would "be awful and he should not cause more violence."
7. Wait for him to pledge not to commit additional violence.
8. React with surprise when he punches you right back in the face instead, screaming: "You weren't listening, were you, you blithering idiot! Who the hell do you think I am, some namby-pamby pacifist? I'm not going to let you get away with your fascist bullshit..."
9. As you move to punch him in the face again, harder this time, watch fellow anarchists approaching you with bricks.
10. Feel brick hit your face, hard.
11. Repeat step 10 until you cry "uncle" and understand that a) the anti-war movement is not completely composed of peace-loving hippies, b) regardless of one's intentions, violence tends to breed more violence.

[Acecool]

One more.... A true pacifist.


FUN AT THE PEACE RALLY: PUNCHING THE PRINCIPLED PACIFIST
When you meet a principled pacifist...
1. Approach "ignorant moron" talking about "peace" and saying that there should be "no retaliation".
2. Engage in brief conversation; ask if military force is appropriate.
3. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?"
4. Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because this would just cause a vicious circle of more awful violence. I do not believe in committing acts of violence, and I do not want any more committed in my name."
5. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can.
6. React with surprise when he doesn't move to strike you back.
7. Point out that it would be a serious mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would "be awful and he should not cause more violence."
8. React with further surprise when he agrees, saying: "I do not believe in committing acts of violence. I accept the risk of being a victim of violence in this world and choose to live with hope. We're all going to eventually die anyway..."
9. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face again to "teach him a lesson."
10. Listen as he staggers to his feet and asks, "Why are you doing this? I'm not harming you, I'm just using my right of free speech to express what I believe. You're the one who's acting like a terrorist..."
11. Again, punch him in the face as hard as you can, harder this time. Come on, teach him that lesson.
12. Listen carefully as he crouches on the ground and gasps, "All right, you got me. But I'm not going to hit you. All you can do to me is hit me again. Look at yourself. Is this the kind of person you want to be?"
13. Punch him again and again, waiting for him to understand that sometimes it is necessary to punch back. Keep punching as he refuses to hit you back. When he is reduced to a pulp and collapses into silent unconsciousness, wipe your bloody knuckles on his shirt and walk away, hoping nobody saw what you did, knowing you had to be right.

[mattx110]

One more.... A true pacifist.
Now THAT feels like American foreign policy.

[kmeyers]

One more.... A true pacifist.

This scenario would get you restrained at best, or attacked by the angry mob of not so pacifists, after the first punch, I would hope. Or hauled off by the police after the first attack.

All of these scenarios are pretty absurd though. So I'll give you that.

[LewMoxinsghost]

These men are nihilists, Donnie- nothing to worry about.