DCU: Decisions- Superheroes Go Political

[TotalWorldDomination]

From Newsarama

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=156482

Looks like the 08 presidential election is hitting the DCU with a fervor, with Green Arrow breaking the old "hands off" tradition and endorsing a candidate. Along the way we'll be seeing most DCU heroes expressing there own political beliefs and perhaps even declaring there party affiliation.

This is either going to be great or it's going to be the worst comic DC's ever put out... that's not a weekly that is. At least we now know the "Superman: Red or Blue?" comment was not referring to the electric costumes...

Any Guesses on who comes out as what?

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I don't really approve of that. I mean, I can't quite accept Superman voting for Obama and Supergirl voting for Hillary. Are the Kryptonian cousins still going to speak? In fact, what happens if McCain gets in? Will either still be on speaking terms with Green Lantern, who campaigned for the Republicans?

And let's not even talk of what Lex Luthor thinks.

[Usernamessd]

From Newsarama

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=156482

Looks like the 08 presidential election is hitting the DCU with a fervor, with Green Arrow breaking the old "hands off" tradition and endorsing a candidate. Along the way we'll be seeing most DCU heroes expressing there own political beliefs and perhaps even declaring there party affiliation.

This is either going to be great or it's going to be the worst comic DC's ever put out... that's not a weekly that is. At least we now know the "Superman: Red or Blue?" comment was not referring to the electric costumes...

Any Guesses on who comes out as what?

DC should stop apeing a universe that generally sucks (Marvel).

[TotalWorldDomination]

DC should stop apeing a universe that generally sucks (Marvel).

I don't think exploring the political opinions of your characters is Aping anything that marvel has done. If DC had a registration act and had there heroes take sides for and against it... that would be aping marvel. Civil War was a great storyline, but this one is very clearly different. As a matter of fact, marvel seems much less likely to interfere with the "political process" then DC is- Marvel maintains all the real politcal officials in the world, whereas DC just makes there own so they can use them in storyline. Lex 2000 anyone?

[Batman was taken]

Not being American, I couldn't really give a rats ass.

Though, I don't know if I like the idea of this type of story... I read comics cause they're good fiction. I don't want politics shoved down my throat as I'm reading about Batman stopping the Joker...

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Not being American, I couldn't really give a rats ass.

Though, I don't know if I like the idea of this type of story... I read comics cause they're good fiction. I don't want politics shoved down my throat as I'm reading about Batman stopping the Joker...

Amen to that, my friend.

[Slaughter]

Thing is, politics is something vital to any fictional world. You can't have a fictional world without politics, religion, technology and such things. I like to see the relaction between politics and super-heroes. Suicide Squad and Lex's presidency as some examples.

VOTE LEX 2008!!

[Batman was taken]

Thing is, politics is something vital to any fictional world. You can't have a fictional world without politics, religion, technology and such things. I like to see the relaction between politics and super-heroes. Suicide Squad and Lex's presidency as some examples.

VOTE LEX 2008!!

There's a difference though, between Lex Luthor running for president, a totally made up storyline, and shoehorning a story into their comics about the real election.

I'm fine with stories within the comics about fake elections (a la Luthor), but like I said, I don't want the real election shoved down my throat like that.

And again, I'm not American, so I may have a different take on it than the majority of your guys.

[FortKnox]

So does this mean the DC is staying that four years have passed since Lex was voted in office? IE the comics were, more or less, moving in real time.

[pryde15]

I honestly do not mind politics being an added theme into the DC Universe. I think it can definetly make things interesting. But I do not want actual candidates. Make up fictional characters, if you are going to do this.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

I honestly do not mind politics being an added theme into the DC Universe. I think it can definetly make things interesting. But I do not want actual candidates. Make up fictional characters, if you are going to do this.

That one, I can agree, and I can even accept some themes about society in general. But, if DC wants to turn this into a liberal agenda on global warming, or a conservative agenda to teach creationism, they're outta their minds.

They could alienate a lot of readers who do not have the same ideology, and, quite frankly, I don't buy comics to get into a political discussion.

[pryde15]

That one, I can agree, and I can even accept some themes about society in general. But, if DC wants to turn this into a liberal agenda on global warming, or a conservative agenda to teach creationism, they're outta their minds.

They could alienate a lot of readers who do not have the same ideology, and, quite frankly, I don't buy comics to get into a political discussion.

yes the ideology of the different parties should definetly not be forced down are throats. I would definetly have to see how they do this though, the intial thought gets me excited, but this is hit or miss.

[Alex Smith]

I'm not sure much good can come of this. I highly doubt both parties will be portrayed in a favorable light. One side (probably the democrats) are going to be shown as right, and the other (probably republicans) will come off as the bad guys.

Just like Civil War was supposed to show both sides equally, but rather completely villainized Tony and the pro-registration folks.

[TotalWorldDomination]

I honestly do not mind politics being an added theme into the DC Universe. I think it can definetly make things interesting. But I do not want actual candidates. Make up fictional characters, if you are going to do this.

Which is what they are doing. Didio says explicitly that McCain, Clinton, Obama Ect Al. will not be seen in this comic. New characters will be used to express the Archtypes of ideology found in the two parties, and it's only just. Having them endorse real people would be horrifically crass and alienating.

That one, I can agree, and I can even accept some themes about society in general. But, if DC wants to turn this into a liberal agenda on global warming, or a conservative agenda to teach creationism, they're outta their minds.

They could alienate a lot of readers who do not have the same ideology, and, quite frankly, I don't buy comics to get into a political discussion.

From the way they are trying to do things I don't think tney are pushing an agenda as much as showing where the characters themselves stand on issues. They can do a comic where they say "X is a conservitive" or "Z is a liberal" without ever expressing a moral condition about those ideas.

I'm not sure much good can come of this. I highly doubt both parties will be portrayed in a favorable light. One side (probably the democrats) are going to be shown as right, and the other (probably republicans) will come off as the bad guys.

Just like Civil War was supposed to show both sides equally, but rather completely villainized Tony and the pro-registration folks.

I'll agree Civil War was done pretty badly (at least the tie-ins were) as far as keeping things balanced, but I think DC will carry this off. A Man can hope can't he?

[elise]

O_o What the hell?

Sorry, but I think that is an absolutely idiotic idea.

[alexr]

If this were the Marvel universe, Obama would have to be a Skrull. It's so obvious. 'I'm the guy for change!' :evilsmile: 'I'm not the other guys'. Too easy.

[DavidAllred]

I'm looking forward to this. It's certainly better than a string of books about a multiverse that I could care less about.

[Sean Walsh]

Ugh. Politics and comics, especially lately, don't mix well.

Plus, I rather like Marvel's approach to politics when it came to Captain America: he's beyond it. So tossing Superman and other iconic heroes into the mix seems......possibly disasterous.

As a whole, the project does not interest me and I probably won't be buying it, but hey maybe they'll strike a good nerve and this could be great. We'll see.

[Assassin Spider]

I hope someone says, "You know something? To hell with both of them. To hell with the entire system. It's sick, it's corrupt, it's a bunch of ticks getting fat off our blood, etc. I want nothing to do with it."

And then somebody will answer, "What are you gonna do about it?"

"I don't care."

"You don't care? You don't care? You just said it was corrupt and parasitic and you don't care about it?"

"Exactly."

"See anything wrong with that?"

"No."

[TotalWorldDomination]

I hope someone says, "You know something? To hell with both of them. To hell with the entire system. It's sick, it's corrupt, it's a bunch of ticks getting fat off our blood, etc. I want nothing to do with it."

And then somebody will answer, "What are you gonna do about it?"

"I don't care."

"You don't care? You don't care? You just said it was corrupt and parasitic and you don't care about it?"

"Exactly."

"See anything wrong with that?"

"No."

I vote for Speedy or any member of the Green Arrow family to say this, just to bother Ollie.

Or one of the JSA's young guns, just to bother the old men...

[shaxper]

Which is what they are doing. Didio says explicitly that McCain, Clinton, Obama Ect Al. will not be seen in this comic. New characters will be used to express the Archtypes of ideology found in the two parties, and it's only just. Having them endorse real people would be horrifically crass and alienating.


Thanks for clarifying this. It makes a lot more sense than what the original post suggested. I might support this if it's done in a classy way. You're absolutely right in calling the alternative approach "crass and alienating".

[TotalWorldDomination]

Thanks for clarifying this. It makes a lot more sense than what the original post suggested. I might support this if it's done in a classy way. You're absolutely right in calling the alternative approach "crass and alienating".
yeah, I probably should have been more clear about that. It'll be interesting to see how all the varied factions of the parties will be personified. and I'm also pleased that the two authors come from different sides of the spectrum (Bill Willingham is apparently fairly conservitive and Judd Winick is fairly liberal).

DC is running a great risk doing this. They could come off as pandering or insulting and there is a severe danger of alienating the segments of the market you insult (I stopped reading Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters after it became clear that they were intent upon insulting me in every issue). But if this is done right, it could add yet another layer of real depth to the characters we have not seen before.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Ok, Prediction Time!

Superman- Moderate Republican
Batman- Unafilliated, thinks everyone is corrupt
Wonder Woman- Femnism Orinented Left-of-Center Unaflilitated
Flash (Barry Allen)- Anti-Crime Republican
Flash (Wally West)- Blue Collar Democrat
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)- Rugged Individualist Republican
Green Lantern (John Stewart)- Moderate Democrat
Green Lantern (Kyle Ranyer)- Liberal Democrat
Green Lantern (Guy Garner)- Conservitive Republican
Martian Manhunter- Green Party (BA-ZING!)
Green Arrow- Hardcore Right-Wing Republican (Kidding, Kidding)
Black Canary- Moderate Democrat (to pacify ollie)
Hawkman- Hardcore Left Wing Liberal (Also Kidding)
The JSA's Big Three (Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Ted Grant)- Unafilliated, and insulted that any of there colleuges are talking about it. I'd put Jay slightly left of center, and alan and ted slightly right of center.
Booster Gold- Reagan Republican
Blue Beatle- Reagan Democrat
Animal Man- Left-Of-Center Green Party, Animal Rights Focus
Black Lightning- Liberal Democrat
Captain Atom- Conservitive Republican
Power Girl- Moderate Republican
Red Arrow- Liberal Democrat
Amush Bug- Alternatly a Ron Paul or Ralph Nader supporter. He just likes the Chaos.

[WorstThingUS]

Though, I don't know if I like the idea of this type of story... I read comics cause they're good fiction. I don't want politics shoved down my throat as I'm reading about Batman stopping the Joker...

Amen. This is yet another half-baked DiDio idea (I'll bet) designed to cash in on what's been the most interesting political race in years. And like all DiDio ideas, he really has no vision and forces it onto writers who could really care less resulting in something that's mediocre and abandoned while he goes on to his next "big idea." One Year Later? Lesbian Batwoman? Why doesn't Mark Waid have his job again? Oh, yeah. 'Cause evil really did win.

[Fatguy]

If they use fictional candidates, it would be silly and worthless.

Now, if it's the ACTUAL 08 candidates, it would be silly, worthless, and the best piece of unintentional camp comics in 30 years. I would buy it in a second, laugh the whole issue, and then bag and board it to save for some future Superdickery site.

In fact, I'm giggling just thinking about it.

[DeeSnider]

Which is what they are doing. Didio says explicitly that McCain, Clinton, Obama Ect Al. will not be seen in this comic. New characters will be used to express the Archtypes of ideology found in the two parties, and it's only just. Having them endorse real people would be horrifically crass and alienating.

I certainly agree and I hope they do follow through on distancing themselves from the actual candidates. But I have the sneaky suspicion their fictional candidates will be something silly like Barbara Ozama, an African-American woman and Joe McBain, a grizzled war veteran.

[TotalWorldDomination]

I certainly agree and I hope they do follow through on distancing themselves from the actual candidates. But I have the sneaky suspicion their fictional candidates will be something silly like Barbara Ozama, an African-American woman and Joe McBain, a grizzled war veteran.

Nonsense, I have it on good authority the candidates will be Celery Stanton, the wife of a former governor, Don Edmunds, ex-vice president, and Mack Roland, the conservative Ex-Governor of Vermont. That's NOTHING like McCain and Obama.

Wait... there were other candidates? Oh poo...

[Hypestyle]

bizarre.. we'll see how this turns out.. but I predict a furious flurry of "naturally the (fill in the blank) are made out to be the villains! I will never buy a DC comic again in life and I will disown any child of mine that does!!"

[lawman]

And isn't anybody troubled by how the DCU could possibly be having another presidential election already, when they just had one in the first Freedom Fighters mini-series? (The whole plot revolved around it, no less.) There is no way four years of DC time could have passed since then.

[TotalWorldDomination]

bizarre.. we'll see how this turns out.. but I predict a furious flurry of "naturally the (fill in the blank) are made out to be the villains! I will never buy a DC comic again in life and I will disown any child of mine that does!!"

I've preemptively disowned any future children just in case they read it. If they can prove they never will OR that the series was balanced, I shall adopt them promptly.

And isn't anybody troubled by how the DCU could possibly be having another presidential election already, when they just had one in the first Freedom Fighters mini-series? (The whole plot revolved around it, no less.) There is no way four years of DC time could have passed since then.

This just gives me a glorious excuse to consider that train-wreck out of continuity. Freedom Fighters was exactly what I'm hoping this ISN'T- biased, poorly plotted and clearly overwhelmingly favoring one side.

[lawman]

This just gives me a glorious excuse to consider that train-wreck out of continuity. Freedom Fighters was exactly what I'm hoping this ISN'T- biased, poorly plotted and clearly overwhelmingly favoring one side.
I'll give you points on sloppy plotting in US&FF. However, I didn't think it was biased or really political at all; what are you referring to? And it's pretty hard to rule it out of continuity, since the new team has been seen and mentioned in other books.

Moreover, it at least roughly fit where a DCU presidential election should have fallen; this one doesn't. After the last few years, the DCU just isn't in sync with real-world election cycles. This new book completely ignores that.

And that's aside from its potential to be politically awkward, simplistic, and offensive to all sides. Yeah, I'm not optimistic.

[TotalWorldDomination]

I'll give you points on sloppy plotting in US&FF. However, I didn't think it was biased or really political at all; what are you referring to? And it's pretty hard to rule it out of continuity, since the new team has been seen and mentioned in other books.

Moreover, it at least roughly fit where a DCU presidential election should have fallen; this one doesn't. After the last few years, the DCU just isn't in sync with real-world election cycles. This new book completely ignores that.

And that's aside from its potential to be politically awkward, simplistic, and offensive to all sides. Yeah, I'm not optimistic.

On US&FF I'll give you a few examples. 1) Firebrands first appearance in BNW has him give an anti-bush rant as his first real piece of dialog. This is the man that is to herald the return of the american spirit. If that's not biased I don't know what is. 2) the republican candidate (red states represented where he won) was shown to be corrupt, then was murdered by someone more corrupt and replaced by a "Mechanical Bastard". 3) The only conservative on the team (as pointed out late in the series by Firebrand) is the one who betrays the team. 4) The team tasked with taking the FFs out are clear parodies of jingoistic conservitives.

Should I go on? The FF book was 100% what this book should NOT be.

As for elections in DDU, They tend to gloss over the whole process. Plus in this age of 2-year presidential campaigns, everyone could be endorsing at the beginning of the campaign, that would help it fit better.

[Augusto]

Comics and real politics? I think this is some of what you get when people demands comics more grounded, more close to the real world.
I'm not american but if any superhero makes a short statement about his/her political beliefs, doesn't bother me. And not being american gives me an edge. They're not talking about my political beliefs. It's just not my country.

BTW, I will endorse my support to whatever Supeman says. Blue Boy Scout Fan.
http://www.yelims.com/IPB/Invision-Board-France-234.gif

[dupersuper]

As a Superman fan I really hope he keeps his distance from this publicly (as he's always been careful to do). Any one who thinks he's republican, though, should read the Armageddon Action Comics annual that shows him elected president. This sounds like an interesting idea, but, like many, I doubt Didio can handle it intelligently or subtly.

[NotSuper]

Superman writer Elliot Maggin actually became a politician, but in his novels he made it clear that Superman would NEVER endorse a candidate (even though, as Maggin states, he sometimes wanted to), for fear of upsetting the system.

It really isn't fair for a politician to have Superman on their side.

[NotSuper]

Superman- Moderate Republican
Disagreed. Superman wouldn't and shouldn't publicly support a party.

Batman- Unafilliated, thinks everyone is corrupt
Agreed. Batman would distrust anyone with that much power.

Wonder Woman- Femnism Orinented Left-of-Center Unaflilitated
Agreed. Diana seems left, but I don't see her being a Democrat.

Flash (Barry Allen)- Anti-Crime Republican
Flash (Wally West)- Blue Collar Democrat
Wally was actually a little more conservative than the rest of the Titans. Still, a blue-collar Democrat might just SEEM conservative to liberals. Speaking as a Southerner, there are a lot of old school Democrats here who would seem conservative to Northerners.

Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)- Rugged Individualist Republican
Eh...I don't think Hal would refer to himself as a "rugged individualist." People who call themselves that tend to be a little nuts.

Still, I do agree that he's a Republican. However, I see him as a more moderate Republican, like McCain in 2000. He'd be very pro-military, but not conservative on sexual or religious matters.

Green Lantern (John Stewart)- Moderate Democrat
John actually started out as a black Radical, and I don't really think he's changed that much.

Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)- Liberal Democrat
Agreed.

Green Lantern (Guy Garner)- Conservitive Republican
This is actually canon, I believe. Guy likes Reagan.

[Abrojo]

It's good politics start taking a part in the world, all the good fictional worlds (comics or not) have politics in them cause there are always politics in any kind of world. Plus, we have seen superheroes discuss philosophy, idealism, etc but poltics is a no? i say its about time.

[Suicide Squad Fan]

Ok, Prediction Time!

Flash (Wally West)- Blue Collar Democrat


Actually I vaguely remember a Titans book (Wolfman years, featuring Redstar) where he mentioned how he was conservative while the others were liberal. Still, that was a while ago, and I can see him evolving into a BCD (especially after hanging out with the Pied Piper)


Amush Bug- Alternatly a Ron Paul or Ralph Nader supporter. He just likes the Chaos.

I can totally see him as a libertarian, not because he actually supports the party's policies but for the Chaos.

[40footwolf]

It's the most horrid idea DC has put out in a long time, possibly even more than Countdown. Even if it's incredibly well done, does anybody really give a crap if Superman would go for McCain or Obama? For Christ's sake, THEY'RE NOT REAL PEOPLE.

[Augusto]

It's the most horrid idea DC has put out in a long time, possibly even more than Countdown. Even if it's incredibly well done, does anybody really give a crap if Superman would go for McCain or Obama? For Christ's sake, THEY'RE NOT REAL PEOPLE.

Believe it or not, real people would vote depending on who's Superman supporting to.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Hal Jordan, as a former air force pilot, would almost certainly be Republican, and he would support the invasion of Iran. As a truck driver, which he was, he would also tend towards no-gun-control Republicanism.

As the wife of Carol "Star Saphire" Ferris, he would be a hen-pecked feminist. :biggrin:

Barry "Flash" Allen, and Ray "Atom" Palmer, being scientists, would be Democrats and favor stem-cell research. They'd definitely be against Republicans who don't believe in evolution.

[lawman]

On US&FF I'll give you a few examples. 1) Firebrands first appearance in BNW has him give an anti-bush rant as his first real piece of dialog. This is the man that is to herald the return of the american spirit. If that's not biased I don't know what is. 2) the republican candidate (red states represented where he won) was shown to be corrupt, then was murdered by someone more corrupt and replaced by a "Mechanical Bastard". 3) The only conservative on the team (as pointed out late in the series by Firebrand) is the one who betrays the team. 4) The team tasked with taking the FFs out are clear parodies of jingoistic conservitives.
1) Yes, Firebrand is portrayed as having politics that live up to his code name. I have no problem with that, and anyway it's not as if the team doesn't have counterpoints (e.g., Doll Man). And AFAIK Bush was never in office in the DCU, nor did the story say so... but regardless, opposing Bush hardly requires one to be a liberal these days.
2) No, the way I remember it, the winner (Sen. Knight) was shown to be an honorable man before his murder.
3) The ersatz Ray wasn't in it for politics one way or the other, just personal aggrandizement -- that was clear from the beginning.
4) It seemed to me that they were parodies of violently paranoid authoritarian types, actually. If that makes people think "conservative," well, maybe today's conservatives need to ask themselves some questions about why.

Plus in this age of 2-year presidential campaigns, everyone could be endorsing at the beginning of the campaign, that would help it fit better.
In terms of trying to shoehorn this into continuity, on this at least I can agree.

[NotSuper]

Not sure if this matters now (new continuity and all), but I remember Lois mentioning that Perry White was a liberal populist--this was in the nineties. She said this to Dirk Armstrong, who was a not-very-subtle Rush Limbaugh analog.