You: Hero, Villain, Anti-Hero or Civilian?

[ThePhenom]

I was talking about this with a friend the other day, who are heroes, villains, anti-heroes and civilians in life?

Definition is all you, but which one of those do people see themselves as?

I've always seen myself as a villain, I'm out for myself and don't mind stepping on people to get my own way.

[StoneGold]

I've always seen myself as a villain, I'm out for myself and don't mind stepping on people to get my own way.

I bet that makes you a real peach, don't it?

[ThePhenom]

I bet that makes you a real peach, don't it?

Hey, we're not here to talk about me.

It's all relative anyway, I could've just as easily phrased it in a way that made it sound like I'm one of the few to admit it of many.

And we all there really are many like I.

[DWEarhart]

Independent contractor.

[kmeyers]

Independent contractor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/kmeyers/batsignal.jpg

[StoneGold]

I was talking about this with a friend the other day, who are heroes, villains, anti-heroes and civilians in life?


That's not really true. I mean, this is a message board. You come in saying you're a villain, the least I can do is make fun of you for being a douchebag. Because generally, that's what villains are. Douchebags.

[ThePhenom]

That's not really true. I mean, this is a message board.

What's not really true?

You come in saying you're a villain, the least I can do is make fun of you for being a douchebag. Because generally, that's what villains are. Douchebags.

I don't believe that, Magneto isn't a douchebag but he's a villain, he just has a strong will and Machievellian attitude.

I mean if it was for answering villain, then yeah, I come off as a total douchebag, but for identifying as one, not so much.

[StoneGold]

I don't believe that, Magneto isn't a douchebag but he's a villain, he just has a strong will and Machievellian attitude.


He stuck a lit match under a miniature mutant's feet. That's pretty douchebaggy.

[ThePhenom]

He stuck a lit match under a miniature mutant's feet. That's pretty douchebaggy.

Absolutist attitude towards what's "good" then I see. I mean I have no idea what your talking about with the lit match... but you've seen every villain ever as douchebags?

[Paradox]

No, they come in varieties...douchebags, dipshits, assholes...

Real life villains aren't like super-hero villains. Sorry to break this to you.

BTW, if your estimation of yourself in the first post is accurate, you're not a villain, just a selfish dick.

[ThePhenom]

Because CEOs and marketing execs get to where they are by being good guys. People stuck to a limiting moral set are narrow-minded in my eyes, self-defeatists in an ultimately shitty world, but getting demonising here is needless.

The topic has deviated so much because you felt the need to be overly overopinionated, hell if that's me it's me, but then your the ones chastising based on my answer.

I don't feel the need to impose my idea of morality on others, or judge on theirs.

[ThePhenom]

Real life villains aren't like super-hero villains. Sorry to break this to you.

Yeah, super-hero villains are probably worse... Oh, and sarcasm doesn't make a point stronger. Sorry to break that to you.

You act like every archetype of real-life villain is Charles Manson, when people will just as easily call Trump a villain.

[Donald M.]

Because CEOs and marketing execs get to where they are by being good guys. People stuck to a limiting moral set are narrow-minded in my eyes, self-defeatists in an ultimately shitty world, but getting demonising here is needless.


They get to where they are by being sociopaths. This is not something to look up to, desire or emulate.


The topic has deviated so much because you felt the need to be overly overopinionated, hell if that's me it's me, but then your the ones chastising based on my answer.


Apparently "overly overopinionated" means, "an opinion that differs from mine."

But then, your opinion is apparently, "It's cool to be a complete asshole," so screw your opinion anyway.


I don't feel the need to impose my idea of morality on others, or judge on theirs.

Nah, you'll just step on them to get to where you want to be. You're a real saint.

[ThePhenom]

Apparently "overly overopinionated" means, "an opinion that differs from mine."

But then, your opinion is apparently, "It's cool to be a complete asshole," so screw your opinion anyway.

I stayed civil when I was attacked the first time.

Overly opinionated refers to each of these people's inability to deal with the fact that I stated something about myself and they didn't agree with that. They stated it maliciously too.

Yeah I don't mind being an asshole and wouldn't have that any other way. Dear, my self-centred view on the world is making me a real heretic, I call blasphemy :rolleyes:.

CEOs as sociopaths, do you want to be any more melodramatic :rolleyes:? The whole post really.

[Donald M.]

CEOs as sociopaths, do you ant to be any more melodramatic :rolleyes:?.

No it isn't. Do you have any idea what a sociopath is?

You know, the only thing cooler than having a inflated self-opinion is when it isn't even close to being justified.

[ThePhenom]

No it isn't. Do you have any idea what a sociopath is?

See, it sounds like your definition is actually the skewed one.

Sociopaths are generally found in the criminal justice system, they often present symptoms that are similar to Asberger's and are in that way socially awkard and have a skewed moral compass to the point of not understanding criminal activity.

Or were we going for the general media view where sociopaths are the guys at the head of robotics corporations that only have flings and kill others to make money. The idea that these men have no emotions, only logic, for money... Give me a break.

Sociopaths have a much better chance of ending up in jail than head of corporations :rolleyes:.

[ThePhenom]

You know, the only thing cooler than having a inflated self-opinion is when it isn't even close to being justified.

Please tell me how I have an inflated self-opinion?

Because I know I'm only looking out for myself, because I care about my wellbeing more than others.

Sounds logical to me.

[Donald M.]

Because I know I'm only looking out for myself, because I care about my wellbeing more than others.

Sounds logical to me.

Sounds sociopathic to me.

And what you're describing is Psychopathy. The term Sociopath is more typically associated with Antisocial Personality Disorder, which is characterized by a pattern of deceipt, manipulation and a disregard of the rights and comforts of others in favor of one's own rights and comforts.

[Paradox]

ThePhenom thinks he's "The Prince":

Because CEOs and marketing execs get to where they are by being good guys.

Some do. Most don't. Such is the sad state of affairs in the corporate world. Most espouse the same philosophy you do. Screw you, me, me, me. But guess what? This isn't the movie "Wall Street". Greed isn't good. and people of that philosophy may end up with money and power, but lead empty lives. Or end up imprisoned, like so many of that ilk ultimately found out.


People stuck to a limiting moral set are narrow-minded in my eyes, self-defeatists in an ultimately shitty world, but getting demonising here is needless.

Hmmm, now so much demonising as scoffing a childishly oversimplified worldview.

The topic has deviated so much because you felt the need to be overly overopinionated, hell if that's me it's me, but then your the ones chastising based on my answer.

Except from your first post, your tag line and the quote in siggy, I can't help but see the thread as nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at self-aggrandizement to tell us all how cool you are because of your lack of caring for the people around you.

Which I don't buy. Villains rarely actually see themselves as villains, and if so, rarely admit it. Which was my impetus. I don't think you're a villain, I just think your philosophy is selfish, IF indeed that's how you see things, and I don't think you really do.


I don't feel the need to impose my idea of morality on others, or judge on theirs.

Impose? No, I agree with you there. Point and laugh? Oh, wouldn't pass that up for the world.

Yeah, super-hero villains are probably worse...

Not in the least. Actually, the opposite. Super-hero villains run around with "VILLAIN" stamped on their forehead. Real life villains are most often very "normal" seeming people with huge issues hidden underneath.

Oh, and sarcasm doesn't make a point stronger. Sorry to break that to you.

It wasn't meant to make the point stronger, it was meant to emphasize my contempt for that philosophy.

You act like every archetype of real-life villain is Charles Manson, when people will just as easily call Trump a villain.

Well, I'm certain Merv Griffin does. :wink: And in some ways people in big business are worse than Manson. Manson-types are so far outside reality in their mental state that they become obvious because of their extremes. Guys like Trump do what villainy they do under the cover of "it's just business" and turn as pretty a face to the rest of the world as they can (although he really should have done something about that squirrel on his head a long time ago, but its too late now, it's become a trademark).

You see mocking and name calling at the concept of "villains" as an absolutist attitude of "good", while seemingly failing to see that "I'm out for myself and don't mind stepping on people to get my own way." is a far FAR more absolutist view. The very topic itself is quite absolutist. Nobody's any of those things really. Good and bad run on a sliding scale. No one's all good or all bad. Those things are for literary devices, not people.

[ThePhenom]

Sounds sociopathic to me.

And what you're describing is Psychopathy. The term Sociopath is more typically associated with Antisocial Personality Disorder, which is characterized by a pattern of deceipt, manipulation and a disregard of the rights and comforts of others in favor of one's own rights and comforts.

Nope that was Antisocial Personality Disorder, which generally presents a lot more heavily than a Machievellian attitude and an asshole's demeanor. Which is why it's melodramatic to call CEOs, marketing execs or me a sociopath.

You've just overstatated this whole thing, the guy that used the term "selfish dick" hit it on the nose, but if you think I have a serious mental illness then who I am to argue.

The whole thread deviated a lot more than I thought it would, I assumed if anyone responded half would give a generally similar answer to me. But I guess in all this arguing and antagonism I proved my original point of: Villain.

[Paradox]

Donald M. pushes it a little:

Sounds sociopathic to me.

And what you're describing is Psychopathy. The term Sociopath is more typically associated with Antisocial Personality Disorder, which is characterized by a pattern of deceipt, manipulation and a disregard of the rights and comforts of others in favor of one's own rights and comforts.

I don't know that I'd agree with that about "business villains". That'd leave them an out that they're mentally ill. I don't think they are, I think they adopt such selfish philosophy very knowingly. Being a self-serving asshole isn't a mental disease. Most of the time it's from money lust, because they've gotten messages from the world that that is all that matters. They usually end up finding out that that message is a lie.

[Donald M.]

But I guess in all this arguing and antagonism I proved my original point of: Villain.

You've proven something, certainly, but I don't think it's anything you intended to prove.

[Donald M.]

I don't know that I'd agree with that about "business villains". That'd leave them an out that they're mentally ill. I don't think they are, I think they adopt such selfish philosophy very knowingly. Being a self-serving asshole isn't a mental disease. Most of the time it's from money lust, because they've gotten messages from the world that that is all that matters. They usually end up finding out that that message is a lie.

Fair enough. You're right, sometimes a selfish jackass looking out for #1 is just a selfish jackass looking out for #1.

Hell, I don't know why I even argued to Sociopathy considering how much I hate the, "It's not my fault, I have a disorder!" mentality.

Too many bad novels and movies, probably.

[Paradox]

ThePhenom is still beating his chest:

But I guess in all this arguing and antagonism I proved my original point of: Villain.

You give yourself far too much credit. Your views aren't villainous, just immature and short-sighted.

[ThePhenom]

I said to leave the definitions all you in the beginning. I don't get why everyone went so far. Yeah, selfish and immature pretty much nailed it though.

I also don't think I was out-of-line in what I was saying or giving myself too much credit by labelling, just young and overpumped with ambition.

[Paradox]

I hope it's not too personally insulting to say I smelled your youth a mile away. :smile:

But when faced with a "dog eat dog" attitude, my first reaction is "what comes around goes around". The real world has its way of taking its toll. Never think shitting on people is OK if you get away with it. There are other repercussions than gain or loss of immediate gratification.

BTW, just to be fair in exposure, I was an Objectivist in my youth. Yeah, that doesn't work out so well, either.

[ThePhenom]

EDIT: Done is done.

[ThePhenom]

I hope it's not too personally insulting to say I smelled your youth a mile away. :smile:

Yeah, I made the thread in a shitty, underslept kind of mood. I also overstated it, simplifying for the sake of reducing typing, but it wasn't any actual attempt to be self-indulgent. But yeah, even I can read back on my posts and see how thick I poured it on.

Yeah, I think I've had the same arguments with you as my dad :redface:. I think it might've been a spot of subconscious trolling, clearing the head.

[Paradox]

Fair enough. I certainly have enough "I posted THAT?" incidents in my past to understand.

And to get back to the topic at hand, if a category must be chosen, I'm much more in the "bystander/civilian" category than any other.

[ThePhenom]

Fair enough. I certainly have enough "I posted THAT?" incidents in my past to understand.

And to get back to the topic at hand, if a category must be chosen, I'm much more in the "bystander/civilian" category than any other.

Haha, a relativist approach then.

Archetypally, I do still think villain perhaps not for the reasons before (better that way), but perhaps the stubborness, one-track mind and moral absolutes (even that sounds rich now). I wear a lot of black, a good enough reason for me.

[Guapo Méndez]

Machiavelli has nothing on Lord Vetinari.

[Puma]

'If it continues long enough, even a reign of terror may become a fondly remembered period. People believe they want justice and wise government but, in fact, what they really want is an assurance that tomorrow will be very much like today.'
-------Lord Vetinari (Terry Pratchett, Feet if Clay)

[Paradox]

Sadly very true. What a world it would be if people actually wanted tomorrow to be BETTER than today. :wink:

[Puma]

Sadly very true. What a world it would be if people actually wanted tomorrow to be BETTER than today. :wink:

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

[Paradox]

I'd love to change the world,
But I don't know what to do.
So I'll leave it up to yoooooooou. :frown:

Guess I'll just work on my little corner...

[Puma]

Guess I'll just work on my little corner...

that's the best any of us can do.

[section 8]

Hero to some, a villian to others

sorry...Hellraiser was on last night

[herogirl]

I think I'm a little bit of everything. It really depends on the mood I'm in and the people I'm around.

[adoggoesmeow]

I like to help others most of the time...but don't generally "play by the rules". So I'll say Anti-Hero.

[Monty_Cristo]

i suspect that i'd fall under civilian because of my lack of ambition. i'm definately not motivated to put much effort into helping or hurting anyone. i don't care about bucking the system either. i'm fine as long as i have a roof over my head, a steady-paying job, and access to comic books/horror movies.

Hero to some, a villian to others

sorry...Hellraiser was on last night

Your suffering will be legendary, even in PITTSBURGH!