Darkseid redesign: Yay or Nay?

[Will.S]

EW.com has the sketches of Darkseid's redesign.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20198166,00.html

What do you guys think?

I'm not sure how much of it is final but so far it looks pretty neat and similar to the way he looked in Rock of Ages. I expected something more primal and radical looking at first but I suppose this will work.

[HaroldAllnut]

I'm quite partial to it, especially because J.G. Jones is a massive talent and seeing his pencils was quite refreshing. That, and I'm a fan of Omega the Unknown.

[Buried Alien]

I like it. Darkseid hadn't had a visual upgrade since he was created by Jack Kirby back in the late 1960s, and while his old look was a classic, it *was* beginning to look a bit dated. The new look makes him appear even more menacing than he did before.

But I'm certainly hoping that FINAL CRISIS amounts to more than an opportunity to give Darkseid a costume upgrade! :smile:

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[DWEarhart]

Aye. It's pretty much just Darkseid with an omega symbol up front, which probably makes him look more super villainy. Whatever.

What's the significance? Well, maybe that's what Final Crisis will explain, and if it doesn't - screw it. It'll end up being Darkseid with an omega symbol on his chest.

yay. I guess.

[Babylon23]

I like it. It manages to update Darkseid's look while still keeping all of the elements that made him such a visually appealing villain to begin with.

[Paul Newell]

What's the significance?
The Omega symbol is often used as a symbol for "The End". It's basically being used by Darkseid to denote that he is the "Ultimate end of everything"....Or something like that.

Grant Morrison first started using it as Darkseid's symbol in Rock of Ages.

[Spiffy]

In some ways its a bit dumb to just stick a big Omega on him, but... whatever. It doesn't really change who he is as a villain. Unless there will be some mental or attitude change to go along with it.

Really, he's always been SO powerful as a villain that the only reason Earth seemed to be safe was that he felt he needed Earth chugging along working like it was. If that's removed now? Look out.

[Flamebird]

I like J.G. Jones as an artist, but the re-design doesn't do much for me.

As for the symbol:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o103/flamebird_2006/evil2.jpg

Does this mean that Metallica is evil?
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o103/flamebird_2006/Metallica.jpg

[Magneto Rocks]

Mmm. I'm positive on *most* of it, but not all. Love the Omega symbol, love the new Evil Gods symbol, love the changes to Darkseid's character we've heard of (Does not cast a shadow / everything he touches rots) BUT not a fan of the giant thing over his mouth. Still, really glad they kept the iconic rocky look/glowing Omega eyes as opposed to a more "new" Seven Soldiers-esque look.

[juggling man]

high contrast design. turns my crank

[Mr.EZ]

Does this mean that Metallica is evil?

No, just Lars :tongue:

As for Darkseid, it wasn't broke, so why fix it?.He never needed ominous symbolism to get the point across that he was an evil bastard. Why start now?

[Sean Walsh]

I say yay.

It looks good, although my only complaint is that I thought the redesign/"his true form" was going to be something COMPLETELY different from how he always looked.........

[Joe-Dono]

mouth guard reminds me of Darth Malik from Knights of the Old Republic.

[Cayman]

It's pretty good.

[DonC]

His head looks like Baron Ünderbheit from The Venture Bros.

[Mr.EZ]

His head looks like Baron Ünderbheit from The Venture Bros.

THANK YOU! That's been driving me nuts. I couldn't figure out why it seemed so familiar.

[berk]

Don't like it much at all. The Omega symbol is way too big and overpowers the rest of the design, and the metal jaw-guard thing just looks awkward and cumbersome.

I'd have thought the idea was to make the figure even more impressive than usual, to mark this manifestation as the real Darkseid, a true god as opposed to the super-villain DC's made him into in the past; maybe it'll look better in finished form, but from these sketches, this redesign is a step in the opposite direction, to my eyes.

[4thHorseman]

I like it. Looks more menacing. The original design (especially how Kirby drew him) never made me think that he was all that powerful. As the years went by, his muscles and stuff grew (along with his jobber ability), but he always had the same lame outfit. Though I did like it when he had a cape....

[Seraku]

I kinda like it.

[Zero Hunter]

His head looks like Baron Ünderbheit from The Venture Bros.

Thats it!! I was trying to place it and just couldn't. I really don't like this new look. The Omega symbol just looks way to big on him and I really don't like the jawgaurd thing. To me this just looks like superfical changes for the sake for of change. If the point was to make him look more menacing then they could have done alot better than this.

[BoosterBronze]

My distaste of Darkseid's costume is well documented. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=167057)

I dig the new design, and more importantly, I dig what's behind it. Darkseid needs to be much scarier, and this should help.

I like the 'jaw-helmet' look better than the 'head condom' look he previously had. The idea that he's ossifying (turning into bone) is really nasty. The omega symbol I like, just because it breaks up the 'apron' look. I cant tell but is he wearing pants? I never cared for the hooker boots/bare leg combo in the original design.

[Jack Zodiac]

Eh. It's alright lookin', much more villainous than he was before, but I don't see why it's necessary. Now that Darkseid is so powerful, he should be something more than just a big guy in a costume. That's what I liked about Morrison's take on the New Gods in Seven Soldiers. Darkseid wasn't a buff black dude in a suit, he was more than anything physical, and the way he looked all psychedelic was awesome. I want more of that.

[TotalWorldDomination]

I'm going to say I like it, but since we've only seen sketches not the actual inked, colored costume, I can't say for certian. But this is a step in the right direction...

[Joe Acro]

It's pretty decent, I guess.

His head and jaw seem very restricted, though.

[b_sinning]

How is he going to recover from the giant whole in his chest?

[Buried Alien]

The thing I like most about Darkseid's new look is that we can't see his mouth. That evokes the Asmodel (Heaven's Host) character that Morrison introduced in his JLA book. It's fitting that Darkseid should look less human and more otherworldly.

I also hope they retain Darkseid's increased stature from the end of COUNTDOWN. A cosmic being should tower at skyscraper heights, not just over Superman.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Choppa]

New design? Isn't this the same design that Morrison used in another story?

[JCAll]

Oh my god, someone stole Darkseid's chin! :tongue:

[PatrickG]

I don't think he's the ultimate villain of this crossover anyway.

But it looks cool enough.

[Paul Newell]

I like it. Looks more menacing. The original design (especially how Kirby drew him) never made me think that he was all that powerful.
From what I understand, he wasn't supposed to be that powerful anyway. Kirby had him as the ultimate "schemer", which was the reason he had all the underlings. He didn't get the "all-powerful" tag until Levitz/Giffen's version in "The Great Darkness Saga".
At least that's how I saw it.

[Magneto Rocks]

From what I understand, he wasn't supposed to be that powerful anyway. Kirby had him as the ultimate "schemer", which was the reason he had all the underlings. He didn't get the "all-powerful" tag until Levitz/Giffen's version in "The Great Darkness Saga".
At least that's how I saw it.

Hmmm... in physical power, perhaps. But in terms of raw... power, Kirby's Seid had it in spades. He was able to get rid of the Infinity Man (Who was beyond even Superman) with a single word, he could entrap people in other dimensions on a whim, and heis pretty much evil incarnate- he even claims responsibility for humanity's nightmares in Forever People #3 ("When people cry out in their sleep, it is Darkseid that they see!" or something similar) Plus he could teleport without use of a Boom Tube, etc.

I don't think he's the ultimate villain of this crossover anyway.

But it looks cool enough.

I'd say it's safe to say he probably is. Some Morrison quotes:

"...Darkseid, who has always been DC's greatest villain,"

"It's the story of the DC universe facing its apocalypse and only Darkseid could cut it as the main villain."

"mately dumb and absurd characters but the challenge on this one was to evoke a real sense of evil onto the page. When you think of what people are capable of doing to one another and to other animals, when you add up all the centuries of cruelty and hatred and torture and it's still only a drop in the black ocean that is Darkseid, you realize you can't pussy around when you're writing the God of Evil "

"in "Final Crisis," Darkseid is front center."

...Sounds like Darkseid's DEFINITELY the numero uno bad guy in this one to me anyway.

[Jeff O.]

...Sounds like Darkseid's DEFINITELY the numero uno bad guy in this one to me anyway.

S
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Quoted from

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16005 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=16005)

"There's a cosmic murder mystery running through the book and the really big bad doesn't turn up until the very last issue."


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[botch]

I say yay.

It looks good, although my only complaint is that I thought the redesign/"his true form" was going to be something COMPLETELY different from how he always looked.........

same, i thought it was going to be something very epic. just seems to have changed his clothes and get a new helmet.

[Jeff O.]

I like J.G. Jones as an artist, but the re-design doesn't do much for me.

As for the symbol:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o103/flamebird_2006/evil2.jpg

It reminds me of a Crown of Thorns (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04540b.htm).


http://efreechurch.org/files/crown%20of%20thorns.JPG


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[Scott Taylor]

My only complaint is that his mouth is covered up, seemingly. Thats dumb, Darkseid likes his mouth, especially using it. Now whenever he says something it will be all muffled and people will be mishearing him all the time. Did he say "Blessed are the cheesemakers?"

[Magneto Rocks]

"There's a cosmic murder mystery running through the book and the really big bad doesn't turn up until the very last issue."


Oh believe me, I know, and remain 95% convinced he means Darkseid. I think Darkseid's only going to be hinted at and shown in manifestations throughout, and will only reveal his FULL power in the last issue. So for the first six issues, someone on street level would see him as the Dark Side mob boss we saw in Seven Soldiers, whereas a hero would see him as "Darkseid" as per this design- different appearances on every level, everyone percieves evil differently. And then his "true" form will be revealed only at the end.

[maraxus60]

I like it.

Kinda reminds me of when Grant Morrison and Howard Porter redid his costume for the Rock of Ages storyline.

[Scott Taylor]

There's a cosmic murder mystery running through the book and the really big bad doesn't turn up until the very last issue.


Time Trapper, maybe? That would be pretty old school, though, probably too much so for GM to tackle.

[nj06]

This new design reminds me of Terrax

[Zero Hunter]

Time Trapper, maybe? That would be pretty old school, though, probably too much so for GM to tackle.


The Time Trapper is one of the major big bads in the upcoming "Final Crisis : Legion of 3 Worlds" mini series so I think he is going to be pretty busy. He was in the latest issue of Action Comics alos setting up the events for the mini.

[Slaughter]

I hope they use Darkseid as the Ultimate Schemer he truly is, not the idiot who only atacked Superman with Omega Effect and Fists.

Thing is, THIS is what Darkseid can do:

Powers

New God Physiology: The beings of Apokolips call themselves Gods and live outside of normal time and space in a realm called the Fourth World. These New Gods have evolved due to their close proximity to the Source, a primeval energy, believed to be one of the ultimate foundations of the Universal Expression of Energy, along with their superior technology, into beings of genetic stability and evolutionary perfection. The denizens of New Genesis are immortal, stronger, faster, and smarter than homo sapiens, despite their resemblance to the same.

Superhuman Strength: Darkseid has shows colosssal strength that has even brought Superman himself down to his knees, though it should be noted that the Man of Steel has bested the God in some of their battles. His godlike strength allows him to break even the strongest of metals, and even the hardest of metals. Darkseid is sufficeintly strong to lift at least 100,000 tons.

Invulnerability: Darkseid possesses a god like level of invulnerability. He is completely impervious to most forms of energy attacks as well as physical blows. He however can be knocked around by beings with colossal strength and power. He is not completely invulnerable, however; massively powerful beings are able to hurt him. Superman once beat him into unconsciousness before burying him in the Source Wall, and Doomsday easily bested him in physical combat, going so far as to pierce his skin with his bony armor. Additionally, during the events of Countdown to Final Crisis, Darkseid was killed by his son Orion when the latter punched clean into Darkseid's chest and physically removed his heart from his body.

Immortality: As a New God, Darkseid is all immortal, unable to die of old age, or any other causes.

Superhuman Speed

Superhuman Stamina: Unable to tire, Darkseid has a level of stamina that is sure to never run out. He can survive in a never ending battle for days if need be.

Omega Effect: a form of energy that he fires from his eyes. This effect is not only a relentless attack, but it is capable of teleporting the target to any location Darkseid chooses and recall them later or erase the target from the universe and similarly reform them. Darkseid has pinpoint control over his Omega Beams, and his unerring aim allows it to travel in straight lines or bend, twist or curve around corners. The Effect can travel across time and pass through different universes, and can pass through nearly any known barrier. It has been shown that the Omega Beams are ineffective against the bracelets of Wonder Woman, as they were created from the Olympian Aegis.

He has claimed that no being had yet withstood the full force of the Omega Beam, but Doomsday and Superman nonetheless survived the attack.

Telepathy: Darkseid is capable of forming telepathic links with seemingly any being in the universe.

Mind Control: Ability to control the minds of others by sheer force of will. His ability to use this power is so great that he can dominate millions of beings all at once.

Telekinesis: Darkseid is able to use psychokinetic attacks or attack the mind by simple thought. With this ability he is able to lift objects at will, as well as use them as projectile weapons or barriers. The limits to this power are unknown.

Matter Transmutation: Darkseid is able to simply transmute matter by force of will.

Molecular Dispersion: He is also able to dissipate and disperse the molecules of an object or organism, effectively erasing them from existence.

Avatar Creation: A simple thought allows Darkseid to create liable avatars if/when the need arises.

Psionic Possession: psychic abilities to possess an individual and negate any superhuman abilities they may have.

Energy Manipulation: can also mentally control most known forms of energy, allowing him to erect protective force fields and project withering energy bolts.

Teleportation: Darkseid is able to teleport himself or any other being simply just by thought or sheer willpower.

As an almost god-like being, Darkseid has several powers that surpass most other beings in the known universe.
Art by Alan Davis
Art by Alan Davis

Life Creation: He can create life and matter from nothing, as he did when he created the being known as Strayne

Time Travel: can travel in time as easily as any New God.

Dimensional Teleportation: He can traverse different dimensions.

De-evolution: As a New God, Darkseid has the omnipotent ability to devolve organisms, or completely revert the evolutionary pattern of an organism.
Abilities

Genius-Level Intellect: Darkseid possesses intelligence that surpasses even the greatest minds in the universe. With this he is an excellent strategist, and has proven that not only sheer force of strength and power has aided him in battles.

Master Strategist: He is a master planner and strategist and his armies are nearly unbeatable under his leadership.
Strength level

Darkseid can lift at least 100,000 tons.


They usually just use Omega Beams and his brute force. Darkseid is MORE than that. Darkseid should laugh at the Justice League and get away with it. I hope they make him scary again.

I think the mouth covering sucks a little. Darkseid can only cover his mouth with the blood of his dead enemies. The Omega Symbol is good, though. Also, I think he needs something better for a helmet.

[DeadXMan]

I like J.G. Jones as an artist, but the re-design doesn't do much for me.

As for the symbol:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o103/flamebird_2006/evil2.jpg

Does this mean that Metallica is evil?
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o103/flamebird_2006/Metallica.jpg


they'll been evil since they sold out.

[Kal L]

I like the design. It's not perfect but it works well enough.

[Jeff O.]

Oh believe me, I know, and remain 95% convinced he means Darkseid. I think Darkseid's only going to be hinted at and shown in manifestations throughout, and will only reveal his FULL power in the last issue. So for the first six issues, someone on street level would see him as the Dark Side mob boss we saw in Seven Soldiers, whereas a hero would see him as "Darkseid" as per this design- different appearances on every level, everyone percieves evil differently. And then his "true" form will be revealed only at the end.

Thank you. I knew you had read that article because I noticed you quoted from it, but I thought I should put up the quote about the "really big bad" in case you hadn't looked at that particular sentence again.

I wouldn't be surprised if this new look for Darkseid is not his "true" form, either. In fact, when I first saw that he is said to be "suffering constant...physical pain," I thought it meant because of what he went through being "killed" in COUNTDOWN TO FINAL CRISIS. I didn't think it meant that he has always been in physical pain since the day he was born and has always just projected that he was physically fit and "well" to others. I guess time will tell, though.

I still think by "really big bad" that Morrison means someone else besides Darkseid. If you're right, perhaps Darkseid's "true" form is so different that it has another name or personality, altogether.

Last year, when we were speculating what FINAL CRISIS might be about, I thought at first it might be about the Antichrist coming to the DCU (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=5372049&postcount=17). And believe it or not, at that point I had not read a copy of BATMAN No. 666 -- though I knew in general it had something to do with the Devil. Having since read that Morrison story about an adult Damian Wayne, and reading that Morrison sees his DC stories of recent years as all being connected, I can't help but wonder for a moment if FINAL CRISIS will take place over a number of years *, or at least reach into the near future, and will end with an epilogue of a teenage Damian Wayne having his talk with "the old dragon." (I'm not saying I'd want to see it end that way, however.) And Damian said the being with whom he would make his bargain was "The Devil, or at least something exists which might as well be the Devil." I suppose that latter part could describe Darkseid's true form.



* I mean, besides LEGION OF THREE WORLDS happening a thousand years from now, of course.


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[Magneto Rocks]

It's interesting that you mention the Devil or Satan, because that reminded me a Morrison quote on Darkseid I dug up from a Wizard interview on Final Crisis:

"Darkseid is basically the ultimate embodiment of evil; he’s a Satan figure."

So again, I think that suggests he is truly the ULTIMATE evil. From what I gather, Darkseid is the satan of the DCU, he feeds on pain and misery and suffering and is evil personified. I just don't know how you can get more Satanic than that.

[datriadx18]

err... I might get marauded for this but apart from the Omega-looking insignia on his chest, he don't look all that different to me. Just sayin

[Jeff O.]

The Omega symbol is often used as a symbol for "The End". It's basically being used by Darkseid to denote that he is the "Ultimate end of everything"....Or something like that.

Grant Morrison first started using it as Darkseid's symbol in Rock of Ages.

And along those lines of Omega meaning "The End," it has specifically long been used as a symbol of God's eternal being in the sense of Alpha and Omega (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01332b.htm) -- The First and The Last (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01332a.htm).

Though Darkseid has long had the Omega Effect, perhaps by prominently wearing the Omega symbol he is usurping a symbol of the Spectre's boss for his own symbol. If the Spectre sees Darkseid this way, would the Wrath of God not want to remove the Omega symbol from the evil New God's chest?

I wouldn't look for such things here if Morrison didn't use plays or puns on Christian imagery in his writing (like the term "Rock of Ages" itself). :wink:


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[Jeff O.]

It's interesting that you mention the Devil or Satan, because that reminded me a Morrison quote on Darkseid I dug up from a Wizard interview on Final Crisis:

"Darkseid is basically the ultimate embodiment of evil; he’s a Satan figure."

So again, I think that suggests he is truly the ULTIMATE evil. From what I gather, Darkseid is the satan of the DCU, he feeds on pain and misery and suffering and is evil personified. I just don't know how you can get more Satanic than that.

Darkseid is a satan of the DCU, yes, but it would appear that the Satan also exists in the DCU.

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/3977/3977_1.jpg (http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/3977/400/3977_4_1.jpg)

Even if Vertigo and Vertigo-esque stories don't count, maybe some of those stories or images with the Devil from the old HOUSE OF MYSTERY or WEIRD WAR TALES comics still happened. Maybe the Phantom Stranger's possible LEGENDS origin during Satan's original War in Heaven did happen.

Perhaps for the purposes of FINAL CRISIS, Darkseid will be the ultimate evil in a superhero setting. It will be interesting to see if FINAL CRISIS: REVELATIONS mentions a devil apart from Darkseid.

Or if Darkseid's true form is somehow Satan.

The thing I like most about Darkseid's new look is that we can't see his mouth. That evokes the Asmodel (Heaven's Host) character that Morrison introduced in his JLA book.


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[botch]

It's interesting that you mention the Devil or Satan, because that reminded me a Morrison quote on Darkseid I dug up from a Wizard interview on Final Crisis:

"Darkseid is basically the ultimate embodiment of evil; he’s a Satan figure."

So again, I think that suggests he is truly the ULTIMATE evil. From what I gather, Darkseid is the satan of the DCU, he feeds on pain and misery and suffering and is evil personified. I just don't know how you can get more Satanic than that.

Darkseid is far far scarier and brutal and the Christian Satan. Satan is a choirboy compared to him. But that's because Grant Morrison has a better imagination than the bible writers.

[twilight]

I expected something more imaginative but it's just Darkseid with a gigantic omega symbol thrown on his body.

-Twi

[GRANT!]

I say Yay. Simple. If we ever saw a live action Darkseid he would probably look like that.

[Jack Zodiac]

Darkseid is far far scarier and brutal and the Christian Satan. Satan is a choirboy compared to him. But that's because Grant Morrison has a better imagination than the bible writers.

Neil Gaiman and Mike Carey's Lucifer is a bad mother!@#$er. Much badder than Darkseid. But the Biblical Judeo-Christian Devil is crap compared to him. And as evil as Kirby's Darkseid was, Morrison's sets a new bar for evil.

[berk]

I say Yay. Simple. If we ever saw a live action Darkseid he would probably look like that.You mean in a movie? And that's a good thing?

[Magneto Rocks]

Neil Gaiman and Mike Carey's Lucifer is a bad mother!@#$er. Much badder than Darkseid. But the Biblical Judeo-Christian Devil is crap compared to him. And as evil as Kirby's Darkseid was, Morrison's sets a new bar for evil.

That's true. Seven Soldiers: Mister Miracle #3 is, despite it's pure simplicity and small scale, among the most chilling displays of ruthless evil I've ever read in a comic. Rock of Ages was pretty phenomenal, but I'd say Seven Soldiers remains the bar for the most evil Darkseid.... pretty much ever. Somehow though, I've a feeling Final Crisis will surpass that.

[botch]

Neil Gaiman and Mike Carey's Lucifer is a bad mother!@#$er. Much badder than Darkseid. But the Biblical Judeo-Christian Devil is crap compared to him. And as evil as Kirby's Darkseid was, Morrison's sets a new bar for evil.

Yeah that's what I mean.

[botch]

Neil Gaiman and Mike Carey's Lucifer is a bad mother!@#$er. Much badder than Darkseid. But the Biblical Judeo-Christian Devil is crap compared to him. And as evil as Kirby's Darkseid was, Morrison's sets a new bar for evil.

Yeah that's what I mean.

[Ite]

I like the new design, they didn't really change him THAT much was is good.