and now, please, a new barry monthly starting with number 1!

[allenBarry]

with great writer and artist...'course.. :smile:

[DonC]

As long as I can still read The Flash with Wally West, I don't care.

[titanfan]

You don't even know if he's back permanently yet.

[Gloom Cookie]

I'll never understand this need to bring back dead characters.

[BoosterBronze]

I'll never understand this need to bring back dead characters.

I understand it perfectly. People liked a character. They want to read more of their adventures.

What I don't like is the constant death-replacement-new character-old character reborn cylce that leaves us with these enourmous families of Superheroes.

We have 2 Supermans
Mommy and Daughter Wonder Womans.
Batman has three Robins and two Batgirls.
Two Green, One Red Arrow and a spare Speedy.
5 Human Green Lanterns
and now apparently 4 Flashes?

[TotalWorldDomination]

I think a Flash "Family" title would be great. Barry, Wally, Jay... heck bring Bart back from the dead too! Start the numbering at 2 and call it ALL FLASH!

[Flash's Lightning]

I think a Flash "Family" title would be great. Barry, Wally, Jay... heck bring Bart back from the dead too! Start the numbering at 2 and call it ALL FLASH!

If you throw in a speed formula speedster, I'd buy that.

[allenBarry]

As long as I can still read The Flash with Wally West, I don't care.

No Im talking about BARRY as THE Flash. Wally could be the leader of a speed force team with Bart, Johnny , Max ,Jay and Jesse.

[BoosterBronze]

No Im talking about BARRY as THE Flash. Wally could be the leader of a speed force team with Bart, Johnny , Max ,Jay and Jesse.

That would be the most boring team of all time.

WALLY: Allright team, everybody run fast!
TEAM: Wheeeee!!!

[DonC]

No Im talking about BARRY as THE Flash. Wally could be the leader of a speed force team with Bart, Johnny , Max ,Jay and Jesse.


How about Wally is the Flash and Barry leads this Speed Force team?

[Pixie_Solanas]

I just don't want to see those damn kids anymore. Good christ.

Didn't they ever learn? Kids are the death of good storylines. Diff'rent Strokes went down the plopper when they introduced Sam.

[Tahko Tetsujin]

I just don't want to see those damn kids anymore. Good christ.

Didn't they ever learn? Kids are the death of good storylines. Diff'rent Strokes went down the plopper when they introduced Sam.

What about Jade and Obsidian?

[Pixie_Solanas]

What about Jade and Obsidian?

Jade & Obsidian weren't precocious little tykes that made me vomit in my mouth.

[Flash's Lightning]

That would be the most boring team of all time.

WALLY: Allright team, everybody run fast!
TEAM: Wheeeee!!!

Heh, funny. :redface:

But seriously, it could work - look at Waid's run (no pun intended) for some very well used speedster characters. Each has their own personality, and so can be unique.

Terminal Velocity, for example, they all worked together. In Dead Heat, most couldn't even run fast much!

[Flash's Lightning]

I just don't want to see those damn kids anymore. Good christ.

You're right twice. Those kids suck, and Christ IS good.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :biggrin:

[fred10]

Naw. Wally is the Flash now. Both kids, though, or at least one (preferably the boy) should die of old age soon. They should do the reunion with Barry and Wally real well. Wally loves this guy, and Barry loves Wally, and now that Barry is back, and hasn't aged much, they're basically gay for each other. I joke, but I only mean to convey that they have as deep a love for each other as two men can have without actually being gay. But there is a twist, b/c Barry was always competitive with Wally when he was around. He always made sure that Wally knew he was #2. But now that Wally's #1, Barry is going to have to deal with that. I really don't think Barry should get his own title. He's not going to be around permanently, I hope. But maybe he can have an extended stay that could prove entertaining.

[barryallenfan]

the West family is the death knell for Wally. The Flash has become a grade C book and even Waid couldn't write himself out of it. This is what you want to keep??? At least with Barry there are many interesting twists and turns that could be taken for a writer, It's like Rip Van Winkle waking up 20 yrs later to a brave new world. How will he handle it. His sense of morality is different than all others. How will he deal with it. The woman he loved has grown old. How will he deal with it. The knowledge that his offspring and their offspring were killed. How will he deal with it. The knowledge that he's been replaced. How will he deal with it..etc, etc, A writer can have a field day with Barry...not with Wally anymore. He's been written into a corner just as Barry had 23 years ago. Sorry but at this point in time Barry is by far the most interesting Flash. The reaction to him returning has been almost universally accepted on all the board(even by Wally fans) except for this board. He's back and I believe it is to stay. I think Wally will still be around and I believe Bart will also be back. To go through all this trouble to bring Barry back would be silly if it's not permanent

[barryallenfan]

and think about this. To save Wally's book, fans are asking DC to kill his kids. How sick is that. they won't do it...so if you like the kids and Wally the way they are..then the current Flash title is for you. I personally thinks it grade C and thats really pushing it

[Blueferret]

Naw. Wally is the Flash now. Both kids, though, or at least one (preferably the boy) should die of old age soon. They should do the reunion with Barry and Wally real well. Wally loves this guy, and Barry loves Wally, and now that Barry is back, and hasn't aged much, they're basically gay for each other. I joke, but I only mean to convey that they have as deep a love for each other as two men can have without actually being gay. But there is a twist, b/c Barry was always competitive with Wally when he was around. He always made sure that Wally knew he was #2. But now that Wally's #1, Barry is going to have to deal with that. I really don't think Barry should get his own title. He's not going to be around permanently, I hope. But maybe he can have an extended stay that could prove entertaining.

Please clarify this. How did Barry "make sure" that Wally was #2? I never saw that between them.

[fred10]

Please clarify this. How did Barry "make sure" that Wally was #2? I never saw that between them.

He was always reminding Wally that he was faster than him. It's true. Barry was always pulling the, "You're fast kid, but I'm faster!"-card on Wally.

[allenBarry]

the West family is the death knell for Wally. The Flash has become a grade C book and even Waid couldn't write himself out of it. This is what you want to keep??? At least with Barry there are many interesting twists and turns that could be taken for a writer, It's like Rip Van Winkle waking up 20 yrs later to a brave new world. How will he handle it. His sense of morality is different than all others. How will he deal with it. The woman he loved has grown old. How will he deal with it. The knowledge that his offspring and their offspring were killed. How will he deal with it. The knowledge that he's been replaced. How will he deal with it..etc, etc, A writer can have a field day with Barry...not with Wally anymore. He's been written into a corner just as Barry had 23 years ago. Sorry but at this point in time Barry is by far the most interesting Flash. The reaction to him returning has been almost universally accepted on all the board(even by Wally fans) except for this board. He's back and I believe it is to stay. I think Wally will still be around and I believe Bart will also be back. To go through all this trouble to bring Barry back would be silly if it's not permanent

Well said!

[barryallenfan]

He was always reminding Wally that he was faster than him. It's true. Barry was always pulling the, "You're fast kid, but I'm faster!"-card on Wally.

thats Bull..you can't show me one book where that happened even once..except for maybe the return of Barry Allen which by the way wasn't even Barry Allen. Why do you make this stuff up

[fred10]

thats Bull..you can't show me one book where that happened even once..except for maybe the return of Barry Allen which by the way wasn't even Barry Allen. Why do you make this stuff up

I'm not making it up. Barry was a boy scout, but was also very proud of his title as "Fastest Man Alive", for which his greatest competition was Wally. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, Barry guilted Wally - so much so that Wally developed neuroses preventing him from being faster than Barry, and even physically harming him if he used his powers. Barry put Wally in therapy, man. That's canon. Read Secret Origins Annual #2 (1988)

[barryallenfan]

I'm not making it up. Barry was a boy scout, but was also very proud of his title as "Fastest Man Alive", for which his greatest competition was Wally. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, Barry guilted Wally - so much so that Wally developed neuroses preventing him from being faster than Barry, and even physically harming him if he used his powers. Barry put Wally in therapy, man. That's canon. Read Secret Origins Annual #2 (1988)

Wally had problems because he felt he had to keep up Barry's image as the Flash. Barry never put Wally down..thats all made up in your skull...stop making stuff up..it's kind of ridiculous

[fred10]

Wally had problems because he felt he had to keep up Barry's image as the Flash. Barry never put Wally down..thats all made up in your skull...stop making stuff up..it's kind of ridiculous

That's not made up, man. I'm sorry, but it's true. Barry used to run circles around Wally just to prove that he could. He did it while smiling, too. Barry Allen, like Batman and Superman, could - at times - be a dick.

[Flash's Lightning]

That's not made up, man. I'm sorry, but it's true. Barry used to run circles around Wally just to prove that he could. He did it while smiling, too. Barry Allen, like Batman and Superman, could - at times - be a dick.

OK - two ways this can go now.

A. You can both trade back and forth witty repartee like "yes he did" and "no he didn't" for a few pages.

B. Or, Fred, you can show an example of what you're saying.

[fred10]

I'm looking for a screen grab on the internet right now. All my books are in another state, though. I know it happened, but the only example I can think of is Wally recalling Barry being a dick to him. Barry was teasing around, and Wally knew that, but Barry was definately putting Wally in his place. That is in Secret Origins Annual #2 (1988), which I've already cited. I don't have it on me, but it's one of my favorite all time comics ever, so I'm pretty confident in my recollection.

[Blueferret]

I'm looking for a screen grab on the internet right now. All my books are in another state, though. I know it happened, but the only example I can think of is Wally recalling Barry being a dick to him. Barry was teasing around, and Wally knew that, but Barry was definately putting Wally in his place. That is in Secret Origins Annual #2 (1988), which I've already cited. I don't have it on me, but it's one of my favorite all time comics ever, so I'm pretty confident in my recollection.

I think you're going to have to do better than that. The Secret Origins Annual can be considered an update for Wally because his ongoing was just starting and Barry had been dead for 2+ years. Show some actual proof from the Flash comics to support this. My recollection of those years were that Barry and Wally were friends as well as partners, unlike Bruce and Dick.

[fred10]

I said they were as in love with each other as two men can be without actually being gay. I'm not arguing that. But Barry did put it to Wally every now and again. He did it in a jovial manner, not like Bruce coming down hard on Dick or anything, but he did do it. Barry wanted to be the "Fastest Man Alive", and as much as he loved Wally, the only way Wally would ever be anything more than "The Fastest Teen Alive" was over Barry's dead body - which is how it worked out.

[Sizzle]

I said they were as in love with each other as two men can be without actually being gay. I'm not arguing that. But Barry did put it to Wally every now and again. He did it in a jovial manner, not like Bruce coming down hard on Dick or anything, but he did do it. Barry wanted to be the "Fastest Man Alive", and as much as he loved Wally, the only way Wally would ever be anything more than "The Fastest Teen Alive" was over Barry's dead body - which is how it worked out.

Maybe, but if Barry comes back, he'd have to live with the fact that Wally is faster now.

I really hope Barry coming back is not permanent. I'd hate for DC to piss on the one death in comics that has held up any meaning.

I think the kids are the big problem. DC should not get rid of them, but take them out of costume and let them just be kids.

[barryallenfan]

why would Wally be faster. Who could mainline the speedforce better , a guy who bump into it a few times or someone who lived in it for 23 yrs. Also Barry may actually have become the speedforce and has been doling out superspeed from the beginning of time. We don't know any of this yet. Just relax and watch it all play out. This could be great

[fred10]

why would Wally be faster. Who could mainline the speedforce better , a guy who bump into it a few times or someone who lived in it for 23 yrs. Also Barry may actually have become the speedforce and has been doling out superspeed from the beginning of time. We don't know any of this yet. Just relax and watch it all play out. This could be great

Yeah, it could be cool. Barry actually being the speed force would be sweet, but then he wouldn't be human anymore, but that could be kind of cool, too.

What I was thinking the other day was maybe Barry has been with us all these years, but in a Kingdom Come kind of way...

Maybe he's just spent all this time zipping around beyond the speed of light, b/w dimensions, helping people out in ways we've never known about b/c we've been oblivious to his existence. This could be a great device to explain some of the unexplainable things that have happened in the DCU over the years since Crisis. Barry was there tipping the balance!:eek:

He's been here all along, but now he's just slowing down, b/c he's got something to say!:redface:

That, to me, would be an awesome thing.

[allenBarry]

why would Wally be faster. Who could mainline the speedforce better , a guy who bump into it a few times or someone who lived in it for 23 yrs. Also Barry may actually have become the speedforce and has been doling out superspeed from the beginning of time. We don't know any of this yet. Just relax and watch it all play out. This could be great

Fingers crossed...let's hope for the best...

[Magneto_X]

As long as I can still read The Flash with Wally West, I don't care.

I agree with you.

[allenBarry]

I agree with you.

I hope , in a couple of months, that there will be no Flash with Wally West.

[barryallenfan]

I like Wally and he's grown within the DC universe. If he were gone, a lot of people would miss him greatly. I know I missed Barry , so I know what Wally fans would feel like. I don't wish that on them. I hope that Wally and Barry can remain in the DC universe and both become viable and interesting. I can see this happen. We need the Flash to be huge again. It would take writers with commitment to story and characters. Lets have more adventure and less kids

[Magneto_X]

I hope , in a couple of months, that there will be no Flash with Wally West.

We can have two Flashes at once.

Actually it would be three with Derrick in JSA.

If Barry is popular he doesn't need to take over Wally's title to be a success. His own series would be enough while Wally keeps the primary title.

[Kelson]

No Im talking about BARRY as THE Flash. Wally could be the leader of a speed force team with Bart, Johnny , Max ,Jay and Jesse.

I hope , in a couple of months, that there will be no Flash with Wally West.

I see. It's not enough for you to get what you want. You have to make sure that other people don't get what they want.

[Guru_Pitka]

I would be most delighted with the return of Barry Allen to his own ongoing series.

The universe is big enough for Barry, Wally and Bart.

[Guru_Pitka]

I see. It's not enough for you to get what you want. You have to make sure that other people don't get what they want.


I agree with your position sir most whole-heartedly. Why delight in the suffering of fellow fans?


Batman
Detective
Batman Chronicles

All featuring the same main charcater.

Why not two or more Flash series each featuring a different character?

[Sizzle]

I agree with your position sir most whole-heartedly. Why delight in the suffering of fellow fans?


Batman
Detective
Batman Chronicles

All featuring the same main charcater.

Why not two or more Flash series each featuring a different character?

Because the Flash is not popular enough to support multiple titles.

[fred10]

Because the Flash is not popular enough to support multiple titles.

He's the only DC title I buy regularly. Flash has a pretty big following. I just don't think we are necessarily the same people buying Batman and Superman.

[Guru_Pitka]

Because the Flash is not popular enough to support multiple titles.

The statement is of course a matter of opinion.

I am also not convinced Flash lacks the popularity for multiple titles. I believe Flash and Impulse did well enough for a while when they were out simultaneously. We will soon have Flash and the Rogue's Gallery mini to test the waters.

What matters is if the books are good. And if the books are distinctive enough to each gather its own audience.

Wally has certainly enjoyed more popularity and sales than he is enjoying now.

I'm certain you can include a new ongoing featuring Barry and it could enjoy healthy sales as well without cannibalizing sales on Wally's book. But that too is simply an opinion.

[BoosterBronze]

The universe is big enough for Barry, Wally and Bart, and Jay.
(EDITED FOR COMPELTENESS)

I disagree with this. (In the interest of full disclosure, I prefer Wally).

In a world with multiple Flashes, they will enveitably cross paths (at super speed no doubt), and cross paths fairly frequently.

IMHO this makes them all less cool. Only one can be the fastest man alive. The others are puffed-up sidekicks at best, posers at worst.

If Bart was still Impulse I think it would be different, but he's not, and I don't see how he can return to it. I also don't see Wally returnign to being a teenaged sidekick. So we'd be stuck with multiple Flash's, currently in the same costume (practically). Changing the costumes of the younger Flashes just solidifies their status as second-rate.

[Guru_Pitka]

I disagree with this. (In the interest of full disclosure, I prefer Wally).

In a world with multiple Flashes, they will enveitably cross paths (at super speed no doubt), and cross paths fairly frequently.

IMHO this makes them all less cool. Only one can be the fastest man alive. The others are puffed-up sidekicks at best, posers at worst.

If Bart was still Impulse I think it would be different, but he's not, and I don't see how he can return to it. I also don't see Wally returnign to being a teenaged sidekick. So we'd be stuck with multiple Flash's, currently in the same costume (practically). Changing the costumes of the younger Flashes just solidifies their status as second-rate.


You are quite correct to include Jay.

Jay has co-existed quite nicely with whatever other Flashes have existed.

Bart's essence might have been saved by Brainiac. That essence can be returned at whatever age the writers desire.

I do not believe Barry and Wally would have nearly identical costumes. If DC has long term plans for both Barry and Wally - then I have faith they will find ways to cosmetically distinguish each from the other. I believe their personalities are already quite distinct. Their reasons and motivations for being heroes are quite distinct as well.

Let us see what they come up with before determining in advance they cannot co-exist. That question depends entirely upon the creativity of DC.

I have never felt Flashes running into each other (or Max Mercury or Jessie Quick, etc) has made anyone seem less cool.

If a particular costume or title is all that keeps a character from seeming second-rate, then perhaps that character is second-rate? Is that not something to consider as well?