Vandal Savage - What's the appeal?

[AllisterH]

Savage is the DCU's only true "not affiliated with a single hero" villain. Even though he started in Green Lantern (Alan Scott version), he's become a mainstay over the years in practically every hero's rogue gallery.

Yet looking at his wikipedia entry, I'm wondering why...He doesn't have any major powers (Immortality and somewhat of a genius) that I can see, yet he effectively troubles characters like the ENTIRE JSA...

What makes him so popular and so effective?

[Ontir]

Post-Crisis, he killed Hippolyte in her original incarnation, when she was pregnant with Diana.

His long life leads him to times when he's incredibly intelligent, or utterly incoherent.

He's lived long enough to have studied and mastered various forms of sorcery.

He's lived long enough to have discovered, invented, and mastered various types of technology.

He can't die. No matter what you do, he's always coming back!

[Rahul]

I liked the dude in the Justice League animated series. He won World War 2 in 'The Savage Time' three parter, tried to take over the world with a space weapon in 'Maid Of Honour' and destroyed the world after Superman 'died' in Hereafter.


I dunno about the comics...

[The Cool Thatguy]

Savage is the DCU's only true "not affiliated with a single hero" villain. Even though he started in Green Lantern (Alan Scott version), he's become a mainstay over the years in practically every hero's rogue gallery.

Yet looking at his wikipedia entry, I'm wondering why...He doesn't have any major powers (Immortality and somewhat of a genius) that I can see, yet he effectively troubles characters like the ENTIRE JSA...

What makes him so popular and so effective?

What makes him so popular?

Well, he's a freakin' caveman but he's better dressed than most every hero he's ever fought. That's gotta count for something.

As for effective...he's thousands of years old. He's got experience to spare, can build organizations willing to die for him within months, is utterly ruthless and unrelenting. He's worse than a roach, managing to escape death like some people cross the sidewalk.

He's the closest thing the DCU has to pure absolute (non magic) evil, but gets away with it because he's got such class.

[berk]

IFrom the little I know about the character, I think it's a great concept, but ineffective in a superhero universe. Like someone already said, no matter how amazing the idea is, it doesn't really impress much in a world with people like Superman. Maybe they should switch him to a Vertigo series, away from the DCU.

[carabas]

IFrom the little I know about the character, I think it's a great concept, but ineffective in a superhero universe. Like someone already said, no matter how amazing the idea is, it doesn't really impress much in a world with people like Superman.The exact same argument applies to Batman and his entire supporting cast and rogues gallery.

[Shellhead]

dreaded double post of doom

[Shellhead]

IFrom the little I know about the character, I think it's a great concept, but ineffective in a superhero universe. Like someone already said, no matter how amazing the idea is, it doesn't really impress much in a world with people like Superman. Maybe they should switch him to a Vertigo series, away from the DCU.

Back in the '70s, there was a multi-part storyline in All-Star Comics where Vandal Savage went up against the JSA. At one point, he was beating up Superman with his bare fists:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/02883630962.65.gif

[FanboyStranger]

Honestly? It's because he's such a bastard. The guy harvests the organs of his decendents to keep himself alive, always has a plan of some kind of world domination (whether it be economic, political, or outright smashing his opposition with an iron fist), is a master manipulator lurking behind some of history's most significant figures, and yes, he always looks great while doing it. Seriously, despite his lack of more tangible powers beyond immortaliity, he's just a great villain, the perpetual caveman giving into his aggresive impulses and greed rather than some whiny, emasculated immortal crying about the curse of the eternal life like so many of these types of characters. Plus, it's usually his own hubris and arrogance that brings him down, which is what I tend to like in my villains.

[Ontir]

Back in the '70s, there was a multi-part storyline in All-Star Comics where Vandal Savage went up against the JSA. At one point, he was beating up Superman with his bare fists:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/02883630962.65.gif

That issue introduced me to the JSA (aside from an ad in a tabloid reprint) and Power Girl. I loved that issue. I think it died during a bought of flu, but I loved it!

[Hawkman]

If DC ever wanted to play him off of one hero alone, I've long thought he'd make a good Hawkman villain. They sort of tried it once in Hawkman Vol. 3, but I think it would work better now. With Carter having experienced countless lifetimes himself he could be the one person to call Savage on some of his more outlandish boasts. Savage brings up being Genghis Kahn, for instance, and Carter could just scoff at him, saying something to effect of, "Who are you kidding? You were just one of his servants."

In other words, I see a lot potential for an artificial history to be built up around the characters due to their respective origins. I also don't know if anyone besides Carter comes even close to possessing the amount of life experience that Savage has, so on a tactical and intellectual playing field, Carter's about as near to being even with him as anyone.

[Shellhead]

That's a good point about Hawkman versus Vandal Savage. Another reason Vandal Savage is such a great villain is that he really does a lot of prep before he goes after the heroes. But when things spin out of control, his civilized veneer cracks and he gets really brutal. Early in the JSA Classified run, while battling Alan Scott, Vandal Savage goes wild at one point and just beats on Alan with a wooden club, demonstrating his essential caveman nature at the same time as his extensive knowledge of his opponent.

[brundlefly]

That's a good point about Hawkman versus Vandal Savage. Another reason Vandal Savage is such a great villain is that he really does a lot of prep before he goes after the heroes. But when things spin out of control, his civilized veneer cracks and he gets really brutal. Early in the JSA Classified run, while battling Alan Scott, Vandal Savage goes wild at one point and just beats on Alan with a wooden club, demonstrating his essential caveman nature at the same time as his extensive knowledge of his opponent.

That's what I find appealing about Savage: the two different sides of his nature. One the one hand you've got the cultured, immortal, Eastern-influenced super-villain trying who distances himself from his primitive origins. On the other, the savage hunter/gatherer cavemen that he started his life as. Like the JSA Classified story, Vandal's fight with Wildcat & Son during Johns' first arc of the JSA relaunch is another good example of both sides being on display. He starts the battle using strategy, intelligence, and practiced skills (swords, martial arts, etc.) before bloodlust and temper revert him to tooth-and-nail savagery. I liked how it was also made evident in his appearance during the fight, as his Eastern braided ponytail came apart and his subsequent wild caveman hair paralled his regression in fighting tactics from methodical strategy to primal instincts.

[octothorp]

If you'd like more background on Savage, try Dennis Power's Wold Newton Universe website. Great stuff, if you like Phil Farmer's "imaginative biography" work. I can't link the site now (I'm at work), but the above is good enough for Google.

[Augusto]

Savage is the DCU's only true "not affiliated with a single hero" villain. Even though he started in Green Lantern (Alan Scott version), he's become a mainstay over the years in practically every hero's rogue gallery.

Yet looking at his wikipedia entry, I'm wondering why...He doesn't have any major powers (Immortality and somewhat of a genius) that I can see, yet he effectively troubles characters like the ENTIRE JSA...

What makes him so popular and so effective?

He likes to get involved, and how he had manipulated history. But in the end, he can just sit and wait till everyone die:eek:


I liked the dude in the Justice League animated series. He won World War 2 in 'The Savage Time' three parter, tried to take over the world with a space weapon in 'Maid Of Honour' and destroyed the world after Superman 'died' in Hereafter.


I dunno about the comics...

"Hereafter" is my favorite chapter from Justice League.

[jv2k]

Have the Legion of Superheroes ever fought Savage?

[Paul Newell]

Have the Legion of Superheroes ever fought Savage?
Strangely enough, no. I'd be interested in seeing that. It was a lot of fun when they took on Ras Al Ghul in "The Legion".

[matt_hatyber]

i wonder were his story is going in salvation run.

[Aaron King]

Vandal Savage greatest hits:
DC 1,000,000
Resurrection Man, especially the final arc of the series
Secret Six

People have already pointed out why he's so awesome, but I wanted to reply to the idea of Savage being Hawkman's archenemy: that's basically what was done with him in Resurrection Man. Both had lived across the ages, fighting in various iterations, both of them winning and losing various battles but always coming back for more.

As for Carter Hall countering Savage's boasts, I'd actually prefer it if all of them were true. "Recent archaeological evidence shows that he may have actually invented cannibalism." Awesome.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

A caveman who evolves into an immortal evil mastermind who harvests his own children for cannibalism and was the true power behind the Pharaohs, Caesar, Napoleon and Hitler?

What's not to love?

[Pól Rua]

He's the greatest general the world has ever seen. A military mastermind who has lived and learned throughout all of history. And yet, at his heart, he can't get around the fact that he's a caveman, a brute and a savage. Despite any veneer of civility, you don't have to scratch him to hard to get to the beast underneath it all.

I'd also add his appearances in the early issues of Baron and Guice's 'Flash'.

[berk]

The exact same argument applies to Batman and his entire supporting cast and rogues gallery.Yes, I agree, and a lot of other characters as well. Shang Chi in the Marvel Universe, for example.

[berk]

Back in the '70s, there was a multi-part storyline in All-Star Comics where Vandal Savage went up against the JSA. At one point, he was beating up Superman with his bare fists:

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/02883630962.65.gifThat works better for me. If they went back to that I might be able to make myself read a Superman comic.

[Shellhead]

That old JSA story with Vandal Savage was pretty neat. First the JSA went back in time to King Arthur's court to fight an unknown mastermind, then they end up in Flash Gordon-like setting on another world. Unfortunately for Superman, that world had a red sun. Anyway great story, and available in trade now.

[Rik Levins]

That old JSA story with Vandal Savage was pretty neat. First the JSA went back in time to King Arthur's court to fight an unknown mastermind, then they end up in Flash Gordon-like setting on another world. Unfortunately for Superman, that world had a red sun. Anyway great story, and available in trade now.

Actually, it was even worse than that. It wasn't a red sun, it was a KRYPTONITE sun.
And there were TWO of them.

IIRC, that entire world was in a pocket universe that Savage actually created specifically to trap Superman.

[Augusto]

Actually, it was even worse than that. It wasn't a red sun, it was a KRYPTONITE sun.
And there were TWO of them.

IIRC, that entire world was in a pocket universe that Savage actually created specifically to trap Superman.

Now you have made it worth to check:biggrin:

http://www.areacomic.com/Superman%203.gif

[marshal99]

Even during pre-crisis , he would crossed universe to plague earth-1 heroes as well.

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/32488651314.235.gifhttp://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/01062288700.515.gif

[robbieglenn]

What makes him so popular?



He's the closest thing the DCU has to pure absolute (non magic) evil, but gets away with it because he's got such class.

Couldnt have said it better my self. Savage will ALWAYS be a trouble for the DCU, regardless of time. The guy is committed to his plans !

[Dorsai]

For me, it was also the JLU animated series. I had never heard of the guy prior to that. Every appearance he had was very memorable and I thought Phil Morris did a great job on the voice.

I have to agree with Hereafter. That episode (minus Lobo) was really incredible. Probably my next favorites is the Savage WWII time travel episodes.

Most of my exposure with him is from JLU and what I saw of him in DC One Million.

[carswell13]

His chest hair.

[OzBat!]

He is the ultimate survivor. He's used both magic and technology, and everything in between. So it's extremely hard to pidgeonhole or otherwise limit the types of schemes he could come up with. And he's always got a long term plan. At the very worst, he could sit around for a few hundred years until the current superheroic age is well and truly buried, but his ego wouldn't allow for that... in his mind he should be rightfully ruling NOW.