How would you fix the Fantastic Four?

[Grimm]

It seems most people are fairly ambivalent towards Marvel's first family. And that's putting it kindly. Millar and Hitches arrival on the title hasn't been quite the success that FF fans could have hoped for.

So just how could you make the title more appealing? Here is my idea:

Retire Reed Richards, and have him focus on science. And the kids. A weird twist where he actually gets custody of the kids and not Sue would be nice. Depower Ben, let him live out a nice normal life for awhile, or maybe even join the Iniative? Have Johnny join another team, and actually be able to get some character growth that doesn't eventually get scrapped.

Sue would take control of the new Fantastic Four. She would be the level headed team leader, struggling to hold together her personal life. And the legacy of the FF.

I'd like to see Namor on the roster, although not to get together with Sue, but romantic tension is always good. He would be a great addition, not only in character but also power set.

Third choice, a depowered Doctor Strange (he still can do magic, but not plot device level) It'd be a nice change of pace for the FF to explore the more mystical parts of the Marvel Universe. Something they certainly would never do with Reed. Maybe even base them in Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum, instead of the Baxter Building.

Lastly, I would like to see Gravity be added to the roster, an inexperienced but powerful newbie. I'd like to see the FF perform a similar function to the JSA, in bringing up new heroes that perhaps don't want to join The Iniative. Or maybe even a villain that wants to learn a new path.

Heck even a fluid roster, where the line up changes depending on the threat they face. No matter what, I think Reed Richards severely hinders the growth of this title he needs to go at some point.

[matthewaos]

Kill them. Or have the "new" FF (Ghost Rider, Wolverine, Hulk, Spider-Man) reunited just for fun. Sorry, I don't like them at all...

[Siddon]

The one thing that I wanted to see post Civil War was a different Fantastic Four it seemed to me that we were moving (and may very well still) move in a direction that would give us an anti-fantastic four. When Doom and Namor shook hands at the end of the Namor mini I thought that we were finally getting to a point where we have a team of four individuals who could be dilectually oppossed to the established Fantastic Four and give you a different perspective.

If I got my wish Doom and Namor would function as part of a new Fantastic Four. Who else amongst the roster of Marvel could fit in with Doom and Namor and make a team that could rival the Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-men and I think I have three characters sho could conceivablly join these two, thus assembling a Fantastic Five.

1. Storm - Storm is the type of character who has been in a form of limbo over the past 30 years, Claremont used her, developed her, made her the main X-character for 200 issues and now noone else knows what to do with her. Her marraige to Black Panther may not have been handled in the best way but I can't argue with the result and my hope is that Black Panther will become an established Skrull and the new Black Panther returns and dies. I feel that the character has run its course at marvel and his death would push Storm into an alliance with Namor/Doom that would create a provocative team.

2. She-Hulk - my biggest surprise post Civil War was the exclussion of She-Hulk on an Avengers roster. Dan Slott was finishing up his run and it seemed like the character was moving on to something different. Then during World War Hulk I thought that with the inclusion of Namora, Hercules, Scarr, the Warbound she would find her way into a brawling type team but then that didn't materialize. So now I feel like She-Hulk can and should move out of America and into Latveria, I don't like what Peter David has done to the book and I really don't like her on that Defenders roster so having her move on to an uneasy alliance with Doom/Namor seems like it would be a good enough place for the character to be. Essentially you could tell the team stories with She-Hulk on a roster with those characters but you can also use her book to go on tangents in Latveria.

3. Captain Marvel - Let me start off by saying that I am a Captain Marvel freak, I loved the original run of the book, I loved the original creation of this complex alien stuck inbetween all these different warring factions while embracing a clear B-movie monster of the month feel to the book. And I think that if you are going to move a character into this type of book that deals with shades of grey but also fights science fiction type monsters and tells great action series that you would go with a character like Captain Marvel as the voice of the book. He seems like the type of character who could articulate the complexties of the battles around him in a way that Songbird/Radioactive man should have done in Thunderbolts.

And here are the things I would do in the book

1. I would have Namor lead the team and not Dr. Doom. I think Namor is the one character in the Marvel Universe that Dr. Doom would take orders from in battle and I think Doom is the one character who Namor would treat with respect on the roster.

2. I would have the team face off against heroes and villians alike who are in strange and odd places. As for the antogonists as well as the Four I can see a team like this take on or defending Baron Zemo, Quicksilver, Juggernaut, Super Skrull, Silver Surfer, Thanos, Thor, and the Thunderbolts.

3. I would keep a tight line between She-Hulk and the Fantastic Five so that stories could be told bi-weekly or you could have a big event but also have the character stuff delt with in She-Hulk the same way Spider-man and the New Avengers went together.

4. I would do something in the first arc to establish this roster as exiled from the USA for something that half the people would find unforgivable while half the people would find acceptable but still be a Doom/Namor/She-Hulk/Captain Marvel/Storm thing to do. I think maybe something like uploading all the tech ideas of Stark to the rest of the World, or destroying SHIELD. Basically something philisophically wrong but not morally wrong or vice versa.

As for the regular Fantastic Four, they should be kept the same, they are the constant in world of Superheroes, that is their thing. Other teams can change rosters but the four have to stay together because if they don't they loose their identities and become something very different.

[ThePhenom]

I think the Fantastic Four are just naturally going to be less marketable, just because they are a family unit.

You could split them apart I guess, but then they wouldn't be the Fantastic Four. I think certain stories that were more centric on the action aspects and not so much family dynamic would make them more marketable but pre-concieved notions may still get in the way.

I personally love them, I like Reed's issues with balancing both lives, and Sue's scale between wife, mother, domineering, passive. I think these two open up for so much.

I'm probably in the minority but it's Ben and Johnny that don't do it for me.

[rZi]

Id put a popular writter and artists on the book....mark millar and brian hitch maybe..

[Shellhead]

The big challenge with the Fantastic Four is that they need a very creative writer. Somebody who can churn out wild ideas like crazy, and then follow through on at least some of them. In the '60s, the Fantastic Four truly deserved the title of the World's Greatest Comic, because nearly every month, Kirby and Lee pushed the boundaries of the known Marvel Universe even farther.

Consider this list of characters, places, and concepts that first appeared in the Fantastic Four:

Mole Man and his subterranean empire

The Skrulls
The return of Sub-Mariner... this directly tied Marvel Comics to the legacy of Timely comics.
Doctor Doom, and time travel.
The Mad Thinker
Super-Skrull
Rama-Tut, and the possible connection with Dr. Doom
Molecule Man
The Watcher and the Blue Area of the Moon
Diablo
Dragon Man
The Inhumans and Attilan
Silver Surfer and Galactus
Black Panther and Wakanda
Alicia Masters and the Puppet Master
Klaw
Blastaar, Annihilus and the Negative Zone
Ronan, the Sentry, the Kree
Adam Warlock
Psycho-Man and the Microverse
Wyatt Wingfoot
Agatha Harkness

And that was all just in the first 90 issues.

Since then, the FF has lost their way. Instead of being written as a family of superhuman explorers, they seemed to drift more in the direction of generic crime-fighters. Instead of discovering things, they were re-visiting things. Byrne's run was good, but read more like a re-hash of the Kirby-Lee run than anything innovative.

What the FF needs is someone intensely creative like Grant Morrison. He would be perfect, except that he is really busy working for DC and unlikely to return to Marvel while Quesada is still running things. Otherwise, Warren Ellis would be an interesting writer for the job. He has basically been writing the evil Fantastic Four in the pages of Planetary, but he definitely has some an affinity for big, bold ideas and a sense of wonder.

[thebeast]

You know I've been thinking about this the last few days and it seems to me that EVERY time they want to "shake up" the fantastic four they take one member out and have them replaced by someone else. Sue's pregnant so they put Crystal on the team. Sue leaves and they put Medusa in, Ben stays on Battle planet and in walks Shehulk, he loses his powers and Luke Cage fills in. Reed and Sue take a break and Black Panther and Storm join the team.

But every time you do that, it's not the Fantastic Four. So you need to do something else to shake it up. What would I do?

First, I'd let someone do an actual run on the series so they could develop their ideas not just give them a 12 issue run which would be interrupted by Marvel's newest 'event' and only leaving 2-3 issues to shoehorn Doom in there so the writer could feel they've done something cool with the property.

Then, I'd stop relying so much on Doom and Galactus as villains. There are lots of other guys that they've gone up against. Actually pit them against some villains and let them use their powers. Where's Blastaar? Diablo? Mad Thinker? Mole Man? Klaw? Puppet Master? Hate Monger? There are tons of villains in the Marvel universe just sitting around doing nothing.

Honestly, I'd like to see the FF go up against Kingpin. I know he's Daredevil's Spiderman villain, but I bet he could really screw with them.

Next, Quesada talks about how he likes to put Spidey through the wringer. Why not pick on the the FF for a change. They're a family so give them something to go through as a family. Johnny's villain girlfriend could be a good start but it would depend on where they go with it. What I'd really like to do is get them out of New York for a bit. Move them to another state or maybe even another planet. Some place they really don't belong. like i said, just give them something to endure.

Also, I'd use Reed and Sue's kids for something other than set decoration. I wouldn't have them in every story, but I'd make use of them a little bit and develop their characters a little. Make them more supporting players. I'd probably try to come up with two or three other supporting players to use to. Cause if you look at it, the four are always a little more interesting when there's someone else who doesn't really belong there (Wyatt Wingfoot, Agatha Harkness, Alicia Masters, any Inhuman, Silver Surfer)

those are just a few thoughts off the top od my head. As characters The Fantastic Four are actually my favorites in the Marvel Universe, but the stories more recently have been pretty lousy (save for what McDuffie was doing) I wish he could have gone longer so he could have actually picked up momentum. I have a feeling Millar and Hitch's run is going to be pretty forgettable when all is said and done.

--thebeast

[Rahul]

Warren Ellis wrote fantastic (pardon the pun) stories in his Ultimate Fantastic Four run..but I think he said he's not in for long term commitments to any commercial titles....

And yeah, Mark Millar's FF is a bit of a bore right now. Maybe they could use a BND-like Brain Trust?

[Kirayoshi]

Since then, the FF has lost their way. Instead of being written as a family of superhuman explorers, they seemed to drift more in the direction of generic crime-fighters. Instead of discovering things, they were re-visiting things. Byrne's run was good, but read more like a re-hash of the Kirby-Lee run than anything innovative.

What the FF needs is someone intensely creative like Grant Morrison. He would be perfect, except that he is really busy working for DC and unlikely to return to Marvel while Quesada is still running things. Otherwise, Warren Ellis would be an interesting writer for the job. He has basically been writing the evil Fantastic Four in the pages of Planetary, but he definitely has some an affinity for big, bold ideas and a sense of wonder.
Agreed. The FF are not crimefighters, they're explorers, and should be written as such. Byrne understood that, even if his stories were more nostalgic. Mark Waid also had the right idea, although his run got bogged down in his 'Takeover of Latveria' storyline.

Grant Morrison did a good job with the FF in his '1234' mini(but Jae Lee is not the right artist for an ongoing FF book). Hook him up with Howard Porter again, get him in the same mindset he had with JLA and let him run wild.

And do not change the lineup. Unlike the X-Men and the Avengers, whose lineups change constantly, the FF only work with Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny. Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Thing and Human Torch. Water, air, earth and fire. I don't know if Stan Lee was thinking along those lines when he created the book, but the symbolism fits.

[Leocomix]

the two elements that define it are exploration and family life.
Kirby would devote a full page to Sue holding Franklin in her arms. We need to see them in their daily living: eating, washing, kids getting schooling, cleaning house. Additionally since they are in th epublic eye, we need a PR/journalistic aspect, like newspapers splash pages distorting events
Exploration: that's the hardest part to do, how many new dimensions, new races can be discovered? A cue can be taken from modern exploration, there's no more lands to be discovered but there are individual achievements to be made, they can explore pst civilizations not just of earth but of the races we know (Kree, Skrulls).

[Grimm]

I think, that the modern day family isn't typically the people we are related to. It's our friends, and even work colleagues. We seem to spend more time with them than our familes after all. Just because Ben, Johnny and Reed left the FF, wouldn't mean you still couldn't have a family feel to them. I think a current FF book could reflect this change in society. It isn't a nuclear family anymore.

Exploration is a tricky one, which is why I suggested having the FF actually explore magical realms. It hasn't really been explored, to any great degree. You can even have Namor leading them into the depths of the ocean. And space and time are still options also.

I admit you will need a very good writer and artist to put FF back where it belongs. Warren Ellis and Grant Morrison are two very good examples. I'd really hope it would be someone who could stay on the title for awhile though.

[coasterbear]

OK, I gotta admit I've been reading the FF since I was 7 years old. And wihile I won't mention what issue # it was that hooked me at that age, it did involve blackbeard's treasure.......

Yes, Byrne's run was (in my opinion) some of the FINEST stories the group ever had, whether it was She-Hulk or Thing as the strong guy of the team. "One small loss", the UPS van, or Johnny's marrying a skrull, shows he had the imagination and a love for the first family of comics. Newer writers could learn as much from his run as from the original Lee / Kirby stories.

But for the future, I think the marvel universe could use a year or so break from the FF. Now before you flame, read on...

Explorers? YES! Let's get them back to exploring. The aftermath of the skrull invasion show that Earth needs to further our good reputation throughout the universe, so the FF take off for the stars. Yes, with the kids in tow. Their book could have all sorts of adventures with new (or previously seen) species, not all of which are friendly. (well, DUH!)

Meanwhile, on Earth, the absence of the FF will be felt in a major way. The Frightful Four, Mole Man, Diablo, and a whole host of other traditional FF villains would attack and need to be handled by the other heroes left on Earth. The one NOT attacking would be Doom, who after a long period of not having Reed to get pissed off about, would go looking for them, setting up a major space duel between the FF and Doom.

This could concievably top the 52 week "event" where the top three heroes of a Different Continuity disappeared. I know the FF going into space is nothing new, but since they are comic's "First Family", why not incorporate the awareness of them into the entire Marvel universe? Let's make them a household word in each of the other titles, and sales and readership will increase.

[ANewHope]

All they need to do is create a problem that Reed Richards can't solve in one issue.

Perhaps having one of the fantastic four die, and Mr. Fantastic devotes 1 or 2 years in bringing that character back. In an attempt to alter time, things don't go to plan and go from bad to worse.

Just imagine a year with Reed trying to figure out how to bring back Sue. Now obviously, Reed will need to eventually discover a way to bring her back, but the process must be long, complicated and difficult.


In general, create storylines where Mr. Fantastic can't magically solve problems in 10 seconds.

[Shellhead]

OK, I gotta admit I've been reading the FF since I was 7 years old. And wihile I won't mention what issue # it was that hooked me at that age, it did involve blackbeard's treasure.......

Yes, Byrne's run was (in my opinion) some of the FINEST stories the group ever had, whether it was She-Hulk or Thing as the strong guy of the team. "One small loss", the UPS van, or Johnny's marrying a skrull, shows he had the imagination and a love for the first family of comics. Newer writers could learn as much from his run as from the original Lee / Kirby stories.

But for the future, I think the marvel universe could use a year or so break from the FF. Now before you flame, read on...

Explorers? YES! Let's get them back to exploring. The aftermath of the skrull invasion show that Earth needs to further our good reputation throughout the universe, so the FF take off for the stars. Yes, with the kids in tow. Their book could have all sorts of adventures with new (or previously seen) species, not all of which are friendly. (well, DUH!)

Meanwhile, on Earth, the absence of the FF will be felt in a major way. The Frightful Four, Mole Man, Diablo, and a whole host of other traditional FF villains would attack and need to be handled by the other heroes left on Earth. The one NOT attacking would be Doom, who after a long period of not having Reed to get pissed off about, would go looking for them, setting up a major space duel between the FF and Doom.

This could concievably top the 52 week "event" where the top three heroes of a Different Continuity disappeared. I know the FF going into space is nothing new, but since they are comic's "First Family", why not incorporate the awareness of them into the entire Marvel universe? Let's make them a household word in each of the other titles, and sales and readership will increase.

Great first post, loaded with neat ideas. Welcome to CBR!

[Monty_Cristo]

i would add Ant-Man (the irredeemable one).

[gorthon616]

It seems most people are fairly ambivalent towards Marvel's first family. And that's putting it kindly. Millar and Hitches arrival on the title hasn't been quite the success that FF fans could have hoped for.

So just how could you make the title more appealing? Here is my idea:

Retire Reed Richards, and have him focus on science. And the kids. A weird twist where he actually gets custody of the kids and not Sue would be nice. Depower Ben, let him live out a nice normal life for awhile, or maybe even join the Iniative? Have Johnny join another team, and actually be able to get some character growth that doesn't eventually get scrapped.

Sue would take control of the new Fantastic Four. She would be the level headed team leader, struggling to hold together her personal life. And the legacy of the FF.

I'd like to see Namor on the roster, although not to get together with Sue, but romantic tension is always good. He would be a great addition, not only in character but also power set.

Third choice, a depowered Doctor Strange (he still can do magic, but not plot device level) It'd be a nice change of pace for the FF to explore the more mystical parts of the Marvel Universe. Something they certainly would never do with Reed. Maybe even base them in Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum, instead of the Baxter Building.

Lastly, I would like to see Gravity be added to the roster, an inexperienced but powerful newbie. I'd like to see the FF perform a similar function to the JSA, in bringing up new heroes that perhaps don't want to join The Iniative. Or maybe even a villain that wants to learn a new path.

Heck even a fluid roster, where the line up changes depending on the threat they face. No matter what, I think Reed Richards severely hinders the growth of this title he needs to go at some point.

At that point why even call it the Fantastic Four?

The only Fantastic Four story that I absolutely loved (though I did enjoy Millar's, Elli's, and for the most part Carey's UFF) was Fantastic Four: 1234. Of course, I don't think we'll see Morrison writing the book again. The problem with FF is that it's difficult to write it true to form without feeling "childish" and when it tries to get modern it really sort of undermines what the franchise should mean to the point where it shifting to something new or "trendy" just makes it feel either contrived or outdated.

Post-Secret War, I'd have Reed and the FF be the analogue to SWORD as Avengers is to SHIELD, i.e. they are the headliners. Giving them generic exploration options, but also giving them a "job" which allows the book to play out more traditional family-oriented stories, and give them an underlying political intrigue.

[drwho]

I'd do a large story arc similar to planet hulk. Somehow the FF get trapped in a new dimension, or galaxy and make it like 24 issues of them studying and learning about this new place with new villains. Also I see no problem with adding more team members like they did in the past and keep the name. As for who Sentry he is Reed's best friend, Captain Skrullvell, Crystal, and Krstoff.

[Monty_Cristo]

i'd have Franklin and Valeria killed off. that would fix them!

[mikekerr3]

Get back to fighting high end villians, spend more time in the cosmic area, adget rid of the God-awful fortune telling bit from Reed.

[Babylon23]

What FF needs is a truly creative writer to create new and exciting villains and realms of exploration for the team. The Lee/Kirby team threw so many new and amazing ideas into the original 100 issues that most creative teams have been living in their shadow ever since. That works for most books, but not for the FF.

The team should be out there exploring new and exciting areas every day, not regurgitating the same villains over and over, or poor derivatives of their known villains. They're meant to be going where no one in the Marvel U has gone before.

FF needs a writer with truly wild and interesting new ideas, someone who can capture the wonder of the Lee/Kirby era without stripmining those early issues.

[CyberCoyote]

What FF needs is a truly creative writer to create new and exciting villains and realms of exploration for the team. The Lee/Kirby team threw so many new and amazing ideas into the original 100 issues that most creative teams have been living in their shadow ever since. That works for most books, but not for the FF.

The team should be out there exploring new and exciting areas every day, not regurgitating the same villains over and over, or poor derivatives of their known villains. They're meant to be going where no one in the Marvel U has gone before.

FF needs a writer with truly wild and interesting new ideas, someone who can capture the wonder of the Lee/Kirby era without stripmining those early issues.

I think writing the FF is probably one of the hardest jobs at Marvel. They've got a less than stellar marketing rep (although looking at a recent diamond list it turns out over the past ten years the sales really haven't been all that bad at all), a lot of fans' attitude is "Oh, it's just the Fantastic Four.. big whup", and as stated it's a lot of the same stuff over and over again.

I'm a HUGE FF fan, they were the reason I got into comics over 30 years ago, and plenty of folks disagree with me, but I think the book just needs to end. At least for a while as another poster stated. Reed and Sue need to stop fooling themselves and realize they're going to have the most mentally unstable kids since Osborn knocked up Gwen Stacey. Heck their daughter was placed in Sue's womb by their SON.. there's a lifetime of Dr Phil visits already. Franklin looks the same as he did about 4 years after he was born, the lil' rascal's the one stopping time in the MU, I'm sure of it.

Ben and Johnny are the adventurers on the team now. Reed USED to be, but he's really doing the world a disservice by playing hero and not working on saving the world full time with his plaid level intellect. Sue.. Sue's the only member of the team I never felt would be an adventurer if it weren't for her powers. She does it because she has to. She's the most powerful member of the team, but it doesn't save her from being the least interesting.

Let Johnny or Ben or both join the Avengers (a REAL Avengers) or form their own team or teams. But it's not the Fantastic Four unless it's those particular four, and so many stories have been told with them already that it's a monumental task to do anything new with them. Replacing members works for a short time, but inevitably it always ends up the FF again. Ironically I thought McDuffie's last story arc was the best, with the team back together, but it sold the fewest issues.

There was a funny bit in Waid's first issue where Reed hired a PR team and they wanted to go all 90's Image Comics on the team to revamp them, but the moral was that they are who they are. It's true, a wild revamp might make for a temporary boost in sales, but it'd lose it's luster quick and the same old same old would set in again.

Hire Alan Davis to write and draw the REAL last Fantastic Four story and split the team up. Have something happen that robs Reed of his abilities, or have hiim go all mushy and have to live in an exo-shell to hold himself together, something to take him out of the action. Maybe they'd come back after a few years to fight some unimaginable foe, but end the book for a while and give them a break AS the FF. They've been running full tilt for over 40 years now, they need a rest.

On the Flip Side: Really restart the series. If the FF have to be Mr Fantastic, The Invisible Woman, The Human Torch, and the Thing do something totally nuts and make Four all new characters without all the years of stories behind them. Have the REAL FF swap out their abilities with a new quartet, maybe some cosmic penalty for something they do, maybe some fix from Franklin. They become 4 normal people and live happy-ish ever after and four new different people take up the mantle of the FF. Totally different personalities, completely different circumstances and reasons for their adventures, and develope a new rogues gallery of villains. Just a thought.

[Sion]

Errr, I like FF and the whole family vibe, especially when they do Sci-Fi stuff (see beginning of JMS run).

[kidpernicious]

I've never been into the FF, I just honestly can't find any lasting appeal when I try to dip into a modern FF story. However I do have to sorta echo others and mash-up ideas here and say this:
Grant Morrison handling an FF run that features the team and the kids traversing the cosmos, potentially in a sort of Grand Tour of the Marvel U would be almost impossible for me to resist. Maybe even taking a sort of All Star Superman approach would make that even more enticing. Bottom line, you get Grant Morrison doing what he does with big crazy concepts, giving the FF a chance to evoke the Lee/Kirby era of big crazy concepts, with that family aspect reinforced as it's just them out there together, and I don't know how that series goes wrong.

I could see an easy Macguffin of the kids being kidnapped by some villain or other, maybe Kang, lost in space/time, with the FF spending a year searching every possible inch of known and unknown reality tracking down the kids, hopping from one crazy-ass high-concept locale to the mindbending next. Grant Morrison at the helm, and a story like that is unstoppable. Especially for someone like me, who again has honestly never given a damn about the FF, no matter how hard I've tried to give them a shot. And at most, I'd only ever change the roster up for short spans, and try to maintain the traditional family identity with the traditional roster.

That's the take I'd get into. Make the FF cosmic characters. Put them where they can play with some of the ideas that made the Lee/Kirby run so great.

[DeadXMan]

one word


Waid

[Deep_Sleeper]

I would keep the team as is. I'd try little things, here and there. But I would keep them a family. I would just try to think of any problems a family has and then just throw an over-the-top twist on it.

Like...the Thing can't find a girl who is right for him. He can't date a normal girl because his circumstance isn't very normal. So he goes to another dimension to find compatible mates (kind of like online dating).

The Human Torch starts to stray from the team (kind of like what Millar is doing) and starts concentrating on things that will make him more visible to the public. He thinks of using his powers as a tool to fame and fortune. He's the irresponsible brother-in-law/son/cousin type who is always putting the F4 into compromising situations because he's always thinking of the now instead of the later. One of his schemes starts up an inter-galactic war (like he dates a girl from another planet and the girl has told her parents and now Johnny doesn't wanna commit so the girl's parents thinks that as a citizen of Earth, Johnny has disrespected his kingdom, or whatever).

Sue is the mother figure, so her situations would be where she's trying to hold everything together. Instead of taking care of her kids and making sure her brother's not getting into trouble with the law...she's trying to make sure her kids are staying away from Reed's crazy machines that could teleport them to the negative zone or destroy moons or trying to make sure her brother isn't starting intergalactic war, etc.

Reed's the absent-minded father. He knows very little about his family and is always trying to do things that interests him. Instead of burying his head in a day-to-day job trying to earn a living, his extraordinary situation is that he's always trying to out-do his previous creation and not paying attention to what's going on around him.

The F4 needs to be the larger-than-life dysfunctional family. It can be done...just needs to be done by a very creative person.

[Deep_Sleeper]

All they need to do is create a problem that Reed Richards can't solve in one issue.

Perhaps having one of the fantastic four die, and Mr. Fantastic devotes 1 or 2 years in bringing that character back. In an attempt to alter time, things don't go to plan and go from bad to worse.

Just imagine a year with Reed trying to figure out how to bring back Sue. Now obviously, Reed will need to eventually discover a way to bring her back, but the process must be long, complicated and difficult.


In general, create storylines where Mr. Fantastic can't magically solve problems in 10 seconds.

That'd be a pretty good storyline.

[kidpernicious]

All they need to do is create a problem that Reed Richards can't solve in one issue.

Perhaps having one of the fantastic four die, and Mr. Fantastic devotes 1 or 2 years in bringing that character back. In an attempt to alter time, things don't go to plan and go from bad to worse.

Just imagine a year with Reed trying to figure out how to bring back Sue. Now obviously, Reed will need to eventually discover a way to bring her back, but the process must be long, complicated and difficult.


In general, create storylines where Mr. Fantastic can't magically solve problems in 10 seconds.

Also agree, that would make for a good storyline. Except I would have to ultimately think that the more interesting resolution wouldn't be a resurrected Sue, but the resignation that any attempt to change fate results in worse circumstances, and that he has to accept her death. Which fundamentally breaks the classic idea of the Fantastic Four.

Plus, the other thing that sticks in my mind is, well... the fact they already do have a HUGE problem Reed has never been able to fix, curing the Thing. And of course any resolution to that problem again breaks the classic idea of the Fantastic Four. (Plus been there, done that retread territory.)

[ANewHope]

Scratch that, kill off the Human Torch, there was one before him, another shall follow.

Does anyone even like Johnny ?? ANyone??

For me, my favorites are Reed and Thing, followed by Sue, Johnny just comes off as being annoying as hell, he's definitely replaceable.

[carabas]

I've never been into the FF, I just honestly can't find any lasting appeal when I try to dip into a modern FF story.Quoted for truth.
There is something about the FF that is simply unappealing to me. Some of my favourite writers have tried it (Morrison, Millar, Waid, JMS), but I can' tsay that I have ever really enjoyed even one single FF story. FF1234 came the closest.

On the other hand, I really like the Ultimate FF most of the time. I think it's the often heavy-handed 'Marvel's first family' angle that does the most damage.

And always presenting them as a family rather than as a team of adventurersn explorers or even superheroes is probably what kills the book commercially too. I reckon that quite a lot of superhero fans equate reading about a family with watching grass grow. I do not believe that this is a marketable concept with the state of the industry being what it is.

[jam]

I *am* a fan of the FF. I've dropped the book (again) thanks to Millar/Hitch.

How to fix the book? Give it to someone who cares about the FF, and who wants the job. I suspect Kesel/Grummett might like a shot.

[StoneGold]

The Thor gambit might work. Cancel the book for a year or two. Bring it back with a high profile creative team.

[carabas]

I *am* a fan of the FF. I've dropped the book (again) thanks to Millar/Hitch.

How to fix the book? Give it to someone who cares about the FF, and who wants the job. I suspect Kesel/Grummett might like a shot.Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that Millar and Hitch don't care about the FF and don't want to write/draw them. Coming off Ultimates 2, they could have pretty much have done any Marvel property they wanted to. They chose the FF.

[CyberCoyote]

Scratch that, kill off the Human Torch, there was one before him, another shall follow.

Does anyone even like Johnny ?? ANyone??

For me, my favorites are Reed and Thing, followed by Sue, Johnny just comes off as being annoying as hell, he's definitely replaceable.

He's my favorite member of the team and pretty much all time favorite hero. Just not the way Millar portrays him (an idiot self involved dillweed)

[Mr.EZ]

I'd do a year-long arc where they lost their "other" powers.

Reed loses his super-intellect and has to rely on regular human intelligence.
Sue becomes cold-hearted and bitchy.
Ben is in a constant state of rage.
Johnny grows up and acts as team leader.

It might show the fans that the 4's previous status quo was indeed good, and upon their return to normalcy, would imbue the other Marvel heroes, us, and themselves with a new respect for the FF.

[jam]

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that Millar and Hitch don't care about the FF and don't want to write/draw them. Coming off Ultimates 2, they could have pretty much have done any Marvel property they wanted to. They chose the FF.

If only they hadn't! ;-)

More seriously, I accept your point.

[Xero]

Bring back Dwayne McDuffie.

[Badfish40oz]

Somebody call Mephisto

[jam]

Bring back Dwayne McDuffie.

Here, here! I was really rather enjoying his and Pelletier's run, which seems to have been replaced by a weak run by big-name creators.

I certainly wouldn't mind having them back.

[Agent_Torpor]

I remember that was the one title I avoided like the plague when I was little, and I continue to do so. Fair or not, I just always had the impression of the FF being some square antiquity (esp. Sue Storm, who was written to embody everyone's freakin' mom).

Something needs to shake that core up, and adding Storm or Black Panther wasn't it. As it stands, it's just a boring premise to me.

But that's why i've always ignored the title on the rack.

[BeastieRunner]

Put Dwayne McDuffie, Tom Beland, or Tom Brevoort on the book. I still like Millar and Hitch's run so far, though.

[Shellhead]

The core concept is great, it's just harder to pull off these days. Done properly, the Fantastic Four should be discovering some new, weird, interesting aspect to the Marvel Universe sometime in the next few issues. They will explore it, get into some action of some kind, and work very effectively as a team because they are like a family. (A non-dysfunctional family)

More importantly, that new aspect of the Marvel Universe should be so interesting that it will create opportunities for other stories. In fact, other Marvel writers will find that new thing interesting enough that they will want to use it, too. Eventually, there may even be a new series featuring that thing, whatever it is. That's why the Fantastic Four was such a major comic back in the day, it was expanding the Marvel Universe dramatically on a very regular basis.

But that's a major challenge. We already have Wakanda, Attilan, the Microverse, the Negative Zone, and various alternate realities. An entire city of witches, alien ruins on the moon, a vastly powerful entity who devours worlds, and an entire alien race of shapeshifters. Great stuff, all of it, but the FF needs to find more and more. Otherwise, they become irrelevant.

[CMBMOOL]

Okay I'm usually not a BIG FF reader, but even I have to admit that the Fantastic Four has gotten boring over the past few years.:frown:

[CyberCoyote]

Somebody call Mephisto

Mephisto? Wuss.. ya got Franklin right there to uber-doober retcon anything you want :) Franklin dropped The Bad Red Man like a sack of 'taters when push came to shove..

[Tobias Drake]

Honestly...I think I would try to establish them as the premiere team of the MU. The books keep touting that they're the best, they're constantly fighting these threats that the writers just love to have defeat the ENTIRE MARVEL UNIVERSE SIMULTANEOUSLY, etc. etc. It's gotten to a point that it is very obvious that, to the writers, the Fantastic Four are superior to everyone and everything in existence.

Which makes for a really boring storyline. Because they're always depicted as more powerful than the entire rest of the Marvel Universe (a natural conclusion from them constantly defeating enemies after splash scenes of those enemies defeating the entire rest of the Marvel Universe), it creates a dynamic where I honestly think they should be retired as an ongoing, and become the last-ditch characters they have been. Remove them from mainstream and set them up an epic position in the world, where they are these hallowed, abstract heroes. And then dust them off for huge, massive conflicts like the Skrull Invasion.

I think, if they must be depicted as being so powerful, that discretion in their usage would make their appearances all the more enthralling.

[Atom_basher]

I would make a new status quo for the fantastic four, put them in a position in marvel where they *feel* important in the MU kinda like what was done with iron man, i mean, Reed now.feels like an iron man Lackey. and it kinda cheapens him as a character. imo

[Shellhead]

Another way to bring the FF to life would be to finally have Reed share his superior technology with the human race. Have several issues in a row showing him using his tech to improve the overall quality of for humanity, especially in the developing nations. Then deal with the consequences, allowing them to affect Earth-Marvel for real, and this absolutely needs to carry over to the other mainstream Marvel superhero comics. Even then, there should be some interesting tech that Reed won't share, like time travel.

For example, maybe Reed finds some uninhabited worlds in the Microverse. He offers to shrink all landfills on Earth down to Microverse scale and move them onto those Microverse worlds, in order to clean up the environment on Earth. Everybody is thrilled, until a bizarre retaliation from some Microverse empire strikes back at humanity.

[matthewaos]

You know, I thought about it, and that was the most I cared for the FF ever, and I concluded that the better solution, at least the one it would make me bought the book, is to have someone like Warren Ellis or Grand Morisson on the title and let them do whatever they want. Just like Shellhead said.

[Agent_Torpor]

You know, I thought about it, and that was the most I cared for the FF ever, and I concluded that the better solution, at least the one it would make me bought the book, is to have someone like Warren Ellis or Grand Morisson on the title and let them do whatever they want. Just like Shellhead said.

I'd read the book if Ellis or Morrison were given carte blanche to do whatever they wanted.

However, knowing Marvel, it would be retconned out anyway.

[mikekerr3]

Honestly...I think I would try to establish them as the premiere team of the MU. The books keep touting that they're the best, they're constantly fighting these threats that the writers just love to have defeat the ENTIRE MARVEL UNIVERSE SIMULTANEOUSLY, etc. etc. It's gotten to a point that it is very obvious that, to the writers, the Fantastic Four are superior to everyone and everything in existence.

Which makes for a really boring storyline. Because they're always depicted as more powerful than the entire rest of the Marvel Universe (a natural conclusion from them constantly defeating enemies after splash scenes of those enemies defeating the entire rest of the Marvel Universe), it creates a dynamic where I honestly think they should be retired as an ongoing, and become the last-ditch characters they have been. Remove them from mainstream and set them up an epic position in the world, where they are these hallowed, abstract heroes. And then dust them off for huge, massive conflicts like the Skrull Invasion.

I think, if they must be depicted as being so powerful, that discretion in their usage would make their appearances all the more enthralling.

I agree let them be ICONs for being Super-heros like Cap was for patriotism. Putting them in the mainstrean gives us moments lie reed appearing to be Tony's lackey.

Also fix the MU enough that Ben can have his poker games.:biggrin:

[BeastieRunner]

Another idea would be to move Johnny and Thing out and grow up the kids a bit. It would be different and it would be a family. Ben could become an Avenger as well as Johnny. They deserve their own shot I think. Later the Uncles could come back to the line up from time to time as well.

[carabas]

They deserve their own shot I think.Dan Slott's the Thing ongoing series says otherwise.

[BeastieRunner]

Dan Slott's the Thing ongoing series says otherwise.

It was awesome. Thing, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and Human Torch should be the Top 4 most recognizable heroes at Marvel and should be treated that way. But they aren't. :frown:

[carabas]

It was awesome.Awesome it might have been, but it did kinda prove that the FF are not quit ready to go solo: nobody bought it.

[CyberCoyote]

The Thing failed due to terrible marketing, no trigger to get folks interested. If Mark Millar or Bendis were writing it there'd have been 12 months of, "The most amazing book in the world EVER, Jack Kirby's family have declared this is BETTER than Jack could ever have dreamed.. the forces in Iraq will declare a Thing ceasefire year!!!!' hype, the book would have been no where NEAR as good but would have sold like pie pans and a clown convention.

The poor thing was dead before it was released, no one pre ordered it. Look at Hercules, think that would be doing as well as it is if they didn't use the Hulk issue swap? THAT was a really good marketing idea. Same thing happened to the Torch's solo. It was released under the wretched Tsunami line and started with a Jemas enforced six issue yuck arc. The final issues by Kesel were actually really good, (Johnny even reconciled with Nomorita before she was killed and he developed amnesia and forgot he was ever involved with her)

Slott on the FF would be wonderful, but probably more retro than progressive.

[Clea]

I've never been into the FF, I just honestly can't find any lasting appeal when I try to dip into a modern FF story. However I do have to sorta echo others and mash-up ideas here and say this:
Grant Morrison handling an FF run that features the team and the kids traversing the cosmos, potentially in a sort of Grand Tour of the Marvel U would be almost impossible for me to resist. Maybe even taking a sort of All Star Superman approach would make that even more enticing. Bottom line, you get Grant Morrison doing what he does with big crazy concepts, giving the FF a chance to evoke the Lee/Kirby era of big crazy concepts, with that family aspect reinforced as it's just them out there together, and I don't know how that series goes wrong.

I could see an easy Macguffin of the kids being kidnapped by some villain or other, maybe Kang, lost in space/time, with the FF spending a year searching every possible inch of known and unknown reality tracking down the kids, hopping from one crazy-ass high-concept locale to the mindbending next. Grant Morrison at the helm, and a story like that is unstoppable. Especially for someone like me, who again has honestly never given a damn about the FF, no matter how hard I've tried to give them a shot. And at most, I'd only ever change the roster up for short spans, and try to maintain the traditional family identity with the traditional roster.

That's the take I'd get into. Make the FF cosmic characters. Put them where they can play with some of the ideas that made the Lee/Kirby run so great.

I like this idea quite a bit. I was going to say something similar: get them off Earth for a good long while. Toss them into unknown space or into an alternate dimension and let them show us why they are so special.

[datriadx18]

for me... the answer is very simple... scrap them. These guys have prtty much being the same since their inception, and unless someone comes up with a drastic change, I think they should just be terminated. I may be biased cos right from my early childhood I've had a strong, pure dislike for everything FF. Even when they used to come on during the Marvel Power Hour I'd skip them and wait for Iron Man.

[Alpha Male]

I kinda saw Fantastic Four as a super-powered version of DC's Challengers of The Unknown. I would raise the stakes on their adventures and put a "Final Destination-like" twist to them. I would have them save the world from an entity who wants to expose Earth to cosmic radiation. I would also have them on adventure where they encounter Death and as a result their lifeforces are linked.

I would also have them swap powers or have their powers slightly altered. For example, Reed can stretch into other dimensions and The Thing can reshape his rocky form. I like the idea of having the team explore mystical dimensions. I would like to see how they would fare in the Dark Dimension or in NIghtmare's realm.

[DeadXMan]

I kinda saw Fantastic Four as a super-powered version of DC's Challengers of The Unknown. I would raise the stakes on their adventures and put a "Final Destination-like" twist to them. I would have them save the world from an entity who wants to expose Earth to cosmic radiation. I would also have them on adventure where they encounter Death and as a result their lifeforces are linked.

I would also have them swap powers or have their powers slightly altered. For example, Reed can stretch into other dimensions and The Thing can reshape his rocky form. I like the idea of having the team explore mystical dimensions. I would like to see how they would fare in the Dark Dimension or in NIghtmare's realm.


That's cause Kirby created CotU. and used them as a basis of FF
the first couple of issues had them in nearly identical outfits.

[TonyJaymz03]

Fantastic Four needs that sense of "Anything Can and Will Happen" again...just think back to when they first started....Namor, Doom, Inhumans, Galactus....the F4 comic was were big things happened to the Marvel U. I think the only writer that could bring that these days is Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison, or Christopher Priest. I want crazy science, I want larger-than-life adventures, I want old school, unpredictable Fantastic Four...

which won't happen these days, since change can only occur during the summer in a big event...and then go back to the way things were afterward

[CyberCoyote]

Fantastic Four needs that sense of "Anything Can and Will Happen" again...just think back to when they first started....Namor, Doom, Inhumans, Galactus....the F4 comic was were big things happened to the Marvel U. I think the only writer that could bring that these days is Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison, or Christopher Priest. I want crazy science, I want larger-than-life adventures, I want old school, unpredictable Fantastic Four...

which won't happen these days, since change can only occur during the summer in a big event...and then go back to the way things were afterward

Quoted for the sad truth.

[Magneto Rocks]

Shut down the FF for a year. Maybe two. Thor-ise it. The FF go away somewhere- another dimension, presumed dead, whatever. Make allusions to the FF across the Marvelverse. Remind everyone- readers and characters alike, that the FF are the cornerstone on which the Marvel Universe was built. Remind them who the Founding Fathers of the Age of Marvels were.

Bring it back with a big name creative team- Millar/Hitch would do absolutely fine. Make it a new number one and fold it in with the original numbering at the next big number. Show the world exactly WHY the comicverse needs the Fantastic Four- both the readers *and* the characters.

Then return to telling FF stories exactly the way McDuffie did and HitLar have been doing. In terms of how good it is, the books doing absolutely fine, all it needed was a commercial boost and hey presto, it's got it.

That's if Marvel are desperate for a saels boost. Because as far as I'm concerned, the FF are still the best team/character in comicdom and they don't need fixing.

[J. Robb]

There's nothing inherently wrong with the Fantastic Four- they're great characters with a great premise (a family of explorers.)

What I do agree with is that it's a tough book to write, any story with characters who are meant to be super-geniuses are. But I think anyone who considers themselves a writer should enjoy that challenge, not try to work around it, or make changes to dumb it down.

I'm sure another writer will come along eventually who will revitalize the title, not through changes, just with good old-fashioned storytelling.

[DDM]

I'd do a year-long arc where they lost their "other" powers.

Reed loses his super-intellect and has to rely on regular human intelligence.
Sue becomes cold-hearted and bitchy.
Ben is in a constant state of rage.
Johnny grows up and acts as team leader.

It might show the fans that the 4's previous status quo was indeed good, and upon their return to normalcy, would imbue the other Marvel heroes, us, and themselves with a new respect for the FF.

I would have the team simply lose their superhuman powers & deal with the consequences. Ben would return to his human appearance & have his fondest desire granted. Will he be happy? Ben would leave the team & we would find him running into FF villains in unexpected places with Alicia Masters. This would be an ongoing subplot until he reunites with the other 3 FF members.

Reed Richards' intellect is his true power--not his stretching powers. I would like to see him remain the nucleus of the team that holds it together with his wife, Sue.

Johnny would stay due to his love of sister & brother-in-law. These 3 would also still fight as a team, but as 3 members. They might pick up one former temporary team member such as Crystal, Medusa, or Wyatt Wingfoot. Reed would invent somethings that seem to give them their same powers artificially over time, but this would turn out to be the wrong idea.

Doctor Doom would be watching all of the events from specialized bugs at his headquarters in Latvia (sp?). He's interested in finding out why the FF have lost their powers & see how they deal with the loss. Is he the mastermind behind it all? Maybe, maybe not...:evilsmile:

[CyberCoyote]

Shut down the FF for a year. Maybe two. Thor-ise it. The FF go away somewhere- another dimension, presumed dead, whatever. Make allusions to the FF across the Marvelverse. Remind everyone- readers and characters alike, that the FF are the cornerstone on which the Marvel Universe was built. Remind them who the Founding Fathers of the Age of Marvels were.



I like the wait a year approach, but waiting a year just to publish CAP the unstoppable robot and Johnny's gay counter-earth equivalent would be anticlimactic my Brutha :) It would have to be more engaging that what the team's putting out right now. The FF is a hard comic to write, there's gotta be a lot of forethought and imagination put into it. Millar's trying some very tried and true methods to get the book noticed, but it's nothing revolutionary or inspired.

Someone with a real knack for sci-fi and high adventure would have to take the helm, like the many new authors mentioned (Morrison etc) that haven't done the book before in either the 616 or U versions.

[Nite-Wing]

Morrison is the only one who would to this book good and well we all know his situation with Marvel. Millar/Hitch hasn't impressed me yet.

[Just a Shadow]

I don't think that there is anything inherently wrong with the FF, but there are a few things I'd like to see happen.

As for the ideas posted, the one I simply would not tolerate is to have the team makeup permanently changed. I don't mind there being an arc or a few issues with different team mates, but to me the FF are Reed, Ben, Sue and Johnny. Any other group of people, even if it has 3/4 of the same members, are not the FF..

What I would like to see is a stronger emphasis on exploration, even them exploring certain parts of the known marvel universe with more depth (like learning more about some of the seldom seen alien races). I also really like the idea of them being stranded somewhere and having a year of stories similar to planet hulk.

I'd prefer they keep Doom out of the picture, unless they decide to fix the damage that Waid did to his character. I found Unthinkable to be rather entertaining, but I strongly disagree with Waid's views on the character and consider the story to be a character assassination.

Similar to the exploration of established groups theme, I would also suggest more mining of the group's history. There're a lot of characters that've been seen over the years in the supporting cast that have since fallen to the wayside. I'd like to see a return of people like Wyatt Wingfoot, Nathaniel Richards, Kristoff, etc. They don't need to stick around indefinitely, but it'd be nice to see them back for a few arcs.

Reed's intellect needs to be reigned in. Yes he is tied for smartest character in the MU, but that doesn't mean he should be able to solve every problem instantaneously. There are some problems that no one can solve, at least not quickly, and that needs to be portrayed.

[drinkblatzbeer]

I think fixing this book would be easy...and you have to look at some of the things which have gone on in Ultimate FF to see this...

where millar went and carey sort of followed, was in highlighting the "fantastic" part of the team...harkening back to the lee/kirby days, where every issue took them somplace else, where every issue they introduced new characters...

unfortunately, i don't think that's coming soon...and to reference this, I just sat in amazement as my roomate turned on and watched the entire FF2 movie...the mess that has been made with that franchise, I think shows how much marvel will really put behind that book...

then again, getting millar/hitch on the 616 book does sort of shoot down my thoughts about lack of support...

[MongoSlade]

Lots of great suggestions about on this topic...

I grew up reading the FF under Byrne's 1980's run and it, to this DAY, was the single greatest run in my lifetime (translated -- I didn't grow up reading the FF when Lee/Kirby had it). During that run, we had:

1) The THING transform from rocky to "anti"-rocky, and back.

2) Johnny had a girlfriend who sacrificed herself to Galactus for the good of mankind.

3) Terrax the Terrible. Why he isn't used more is beyond me. Some of the best books of Byrne's run involved this villian.

4) Negative zone and the change of uniforms. Who knew a simple change would work wonders...?

5) The trial of Reed Richards.

6) Malice -- the more of her, the better.

7) Speaking of #6 -- the overall development of Sue Richards as a character.

8) see below (one of the best Doom related stories -- ever)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Ff247.png

9) FF #249-250. One of the best 2-issue stories. Ever.

10) The Mask of Doom.

Man, I could go on for days about that "Fantastic" run Byrne had.

Sending the FF into exile for a year, "Planet Hulk"-style is a wonderful suggestion, but I would add a twist to it.... set it up for a summer-time mega arc with Malice as the main foil.

...

As for Millar and Hitch, I can't get into Hitch's artwork (remember, Byrne pushed the standard for FF art in a big way), and as a result, I can't get into the current story.

Bring back Dwayne McDuffie.

[psm]

Like everyone else has mentioned, I would stop publishing the series for a year or two (like Thor) to increase interest in the team.

Then I would start off the series with the "death" of Sue Storm. I would remove the character for awhile. I would do it in the most mundane random manner too. No supervillans or planet saving acts of heroism. Then I would focus on the rest of the team. How would Reed as a single parent deal with the love of his life dying? How would it affect Johny and Ben? What about the kids? Would they stay a team? More importantly, would they stay a family or become a stronger one? I could see some really good character arcs coming out of this. Then after a year or two I would bring her back and give the series to the next writer.

[Shellhead]

Kill Sue? Nah, Marvel has already cheapened death with too many resurrections. Today, when a hero or villain dies in the Marvel Universe, it's like a trip to the penalty box in hockey. Everybody knows they will be back soon enough.

However, I think that having Sue leave for a time could be interesting. Maybe she decides that her kids need to live a normal life away from the team, so she leaves Reed for a while. Winning her back could be an interesting subplot, and in the meantime, they could get by with a replacement fourth team member. Maybe some from the past, like She-Hulk, or maybe somebody new.

[psm]

Kill Sue? Nah, Marvel has already cheapened death with too many resurrections. Today, when a hero or villain dies in the Marvel Universe, it's like a trip to the penalty box in hockey. Everybody knows they will be back soon enough.

So you think temporarily killing off Captain America was a bad idea? I really think its how its executed and what you do with it that makes is special or not. If you do it for a jump in sales(Superman and Hal Jordan), then yes it's probably a bad idea. However if you can make a great story out of it (Thor or Captain America) I see no problem with it.

But to each their own.

[HeckBoy]

Morrison is the only one who would to this book good and well we all know his situation with Marvel. I liked that he paired Cyclops up with Emma, but it's that same action that makes me imagine (w/o merit of course) him pairing Namor w/ Sue. He already broke up one marriage, and if he were ever to do F4, that's what I'd picture him doing too (again, no foundation for it, just an irrational belief of mine).

As for how to fix the F4? Go back to their roots. Have them go on an adventure, w/o them necessarily fighting a villain-of-the-month. I think Millar's opening silo w/ the F4 coming back from the Old West had some unintended potential. Let's say the F4 decide to go on vacation thru time/space/dimension, except say Johnny decides to stay behind to do his own thing. Have something malfunction w/ their homing beacon that causes them to get lost in time/space/dimension and now they have to do what they can to try and get back home. Nevermind, that's basically Sliders/Exiles right there. Okay, I have no idea how to revive F4 in a novel way. :redface: [anyone know how to do a strikeout on these boards?]

[CMBMOOL]

I kind of like the "Planet Hulk" idea for the FF, maybe having Reed feel guilt over his role in the recent Marvel events and the destruction of trust with his superheroic peers, made me think that the FF should try to split up for the good of the world.

I would have the kids stay at Alica's place for a while and have the FF go their seperate ways to find what made them special again. Make it a year or two, then bring them back in a BIG way. :biggrin:


I would make it in space, due to the poetential that it can change a person, like it did for Nova and the Hulk. :tongue:

[gorthon616]

I liked that he paired Cyclops up with Emma, but it's that same action that makes me imagine (w/o merit of course) him pairing Namor w/ Sue. He already broke up one marriage, and if he were ever to do F4, that's what I'd picture him doing too (again, no foundation for it, just an irrational belief of mine).

As for how to fix the F4? Go back to their roots. Have them go on an adventure, w/o them necessarily fighting a villain-of-the-month. I think Millar's opening silo w/ the F4 coming back from the Old West had some unintended potential. Let's say the F4 decide to go on vacation thru time/space/dimension, except say Johnny decides to stay behind to do his own thing. Have something malfunction w/ their homing beacon that causes them to get lost in time/space/dimension and now they have to do what they can to try and get back home. Nevermind, that's basically Sliders/Exiles right there. Okay, I have no idea how to revive F4 in a novel way. :redface: [anyone know how to do a strikeout on these boards?]

Hmm. Actually that was the opposite of what I was thinking about when it came to Morrison on FF. I was thinking more about Fantastic Four:1234, where I felt he strengthened the familial bonds between the core members than doing some radical re-imagining. That's partially why I had issues with his run at times, because it was the opposite of what I had wanted.

[Shellhead]

So you think temporarily killing off Captain America was a bad idea? I really think its how its executed and what you do with it that makes is special or not. If you do it for a jump in sales(Superman and Hal Jordan), then yes it's probably a bad idea. However if you can make a great story out of it (Thor or Captain America) I see no problem with it.

But to each their own.

Brubaker is a strong writer, strong enough to make even a bad idea work well. I thought that bringing back Bucky was a bad idea, and killing Cap was a joke after all the other times that he has been killed and brought back, but Bru is telling a great story. In general, however, Marvel needs to rein in their writers and stop the cheap and meaningless temporary deaths.

[Parch]

FF is alright. I think there's good chemistry and humor in the group.
Isn't FF considered the "cosmic" group that spends a lot of time off-world? Cosmic titles/heroes are not normally the best sellers.

Unless they're looking to make a major style change and make them more earth-based, FF will continue to be a minor league team. That's not necessarily bad. Competing with Avengers, Spidey, and the X-groups would be harder than sticking to their niche.

[PatrickG]

I think I'd start with a big, fun, done-in-one adventure...

... and end with the revelation that Reed Richards has been doping his intellect DOWN since college.

Reed as we know him is only operating at 1% of his intellectual capacity. His meds (of his own design) keep him there but enable him to interact with other people.

From there, we have a lot of questions:

How much did he plan before he took the pills? Would Doom's accident or Ben's accident have been averted if Reed had been using his full brainpower?

What good could it do the world if Reed got off his meds...? And what cost would it be to the family?

Along the way:

- Johnny falls hard for a mutant but must confront head-on why he's a darling and she's a freak -- and things get more complicated when her husband shows up and Johnny's having none of it

- Ben must deal with the consequences when the Yancy Street Gang intentionally transform themselves into Things using cosmic radiation devices, when super-powers become cheap and affordable for the middle class at every retail store on earth, even as the rest of the team braces the world for the idea that super-powers are more readily availible than firearms -- and there's no going back

- Sue discovers that a fragment of her younger self has been trapped in another dimension courtesy of her powers and is confronted with the Invisible Girl, a 20 year old echo of herself that has no chance with Reed and no obligations towards Johnny or the kids. And the Invisible Woman is somewhat unnerved at the reflection she sees.

- Namor, newly ticked off, kidnaps the children and refuses to release them until the brain of Reed Richards is in a jar and Susan Richards has sired him an heir.

- We check in with the Doombots and learn that not only have they been fooling demons and deities (ie. not even the Watcher, the Beyonder or Mephisto can tell the difference between Doom and his Doombots)... But that they have souls and are starting to make their presence known in the afterlife.

- Reed Richards teaches Eternity and the Living Tribunal humility. But what happens to God when there are humans whose intellect transcends the omniscient?

[Alpha Male]

In keeping with my theme of high stakes of adventures for the Fantastic Four, here are some more ideas.

1. Fantastic Four versus The U-Foes: To my knowledge this hasn't been done before. I would have members of The U-Foes secretly ambush different members of the F.F. one by one. The U-Foes would attack the Fantastic Four when their guard is down.

2. Have the Fantastic Four fight a cult: I picture this cult being a group of zealots who worship the renegade Watcher. This will be a cult secretly looking to have thier fingers in different facets of society and looking to destroy the world from within.

3. Have Sue stuck in her invisibility form: I would like to see how Sue would cope not being able to become visible and Reed working on a cure to help Sue regain her visibility.

4. Have The Human Torch stalked by an obsessed fan: For once I would like to see how Johnny Storm deals with the drawback of celebrity. This fan could be someone that Johnny saved or someone who claimed to have been saved by him. This fan could hangout at the Baxter Building, gain powers through using MGH and make Johnny's life miserable. This fan could also leave badly beaten villians as love notes on Johnny's doorstep. I haven't made up my mind about the gender of the fan other than this person would be really creepy.

5. Have The Leader fight The Fantastic Four : For years The Leader has been attached to The Hulk. Let's see him match wits with Reed and give the Fantastic Four a hard time.

6. Have the Fantastic Four fight Juggernaut: Let's see how the team deals with the Unstoppable Juggernaut.

7. Have Latveria develop a super-team: I would like to see Doctor Doom create a team of superhumans designed to take on the Fantastic Four. They can serve as his imperial guard. I would call them Minions of Doom.

8. Have Latveria run by a female monarch.: This arrangement would be temporary, but I would like to see a Queen Doom. Someone that can serve as a romantic rival for Sue for Reed's affections.

9. Have the team fight Apocalypse I would like to see Apocalyse turn the team into his Four Horsemen and see how them try to escape the situation and defeat Apocalypse.

10.TBA

[Rod G]

You can't go wrong with a brand new logo.


One of the things I loved about Mike Wieringo's run was the new logo.

That's what the FF comic needs.A logo that reads "21st century".

[Deep_Sleeper]

I think I'd start with a big, fun, done-in-one adventure...

... and end with the revelation that Reed Richards has been doping his intellect DOWN since college.

Reed as we know him is only operating at 1% of his intellectual capacity. His meds (of his own design) keep him there but enable him to interact with other people.

From there, we have a lot of questions:

How much did he plan before he took the pills? Would Doom's accident or Ben's accident have been averted if Reed had been using his full brainpower?

What good could it do the world if Reed got off his meds...? And what cost would it be to the family?

Along the way:

- Johnny falls hard for a mutant but must confront head-on why he's a darling and she's a freak -- and things get more complicated when her husband shows up and Johnny's having none of it

- Ben must deal with the consequences when the Yancy Street Gang intentionally transform themselves into Things using cosmic radiation devices, when super-powers become cheap and affordable for the middle class at every retail store on earth, even as the rest of the team braces the world for the idea that super-powers are more readily availible than firearms -- and there's no going back

- Sue discovers that a fragment of her younger self has been trapped in another dimension courtesy of her powers and is confronted with the Invisible Girl, a 20 year old echo of herself that has no chance with Reed and no obligations towards Johnny or the kids. And the Invisible Woman is somewhat unnerved at the reflection she sees.

- Namor, newly ticked off, kidnaps the children and refuses to release them until the brain of Reed Richards is in a jar and Susan Richards has sired him an heir.

- We check in with the Doombots and learn that not only have they been fooling demons and deities (ie. not even the Watcher, the Beyonder or Mephisto can tell the difference between Doom and his Doombots)... But that they have souls and are starting to make their presence known in the afterlife.

- Reed Richards teaches Eternity and the Living Tribunal humility. But what happens to God when there are humans whose intellect transcends the omniscient?

I think if anyone manages to craft a well told stories out of those ideas, I'd read F4.

[PatrickG]

Oh. And one more thing.

The last person you'd ever expect to join the Fantastic Four joins.

It's somebody further down the list than Doctor Doom and someone who has never joined a team before.

-- Why? Because Reed Richards went too far in his last gambit to save earth, making Richards' old threat to use the Ultimate Nulifier look like a party trick.

Now, one of the Fantastic Four may be beyond redemption, the greatest monster the Marvel Universe has ever seen...

... And the Fantastic Four have a new member. One that may make everyone in the Marvel Universe look twice.

THIS is where the real ongoing story picks up. 'Cause, man, I just want to see people's faces when they realize why one member has left the team, what the stakes are... and, most of all, how they react to the new fourth member.

Let's just say, it could easily spin out into:

FANTASTIC FOUR VS. THE X-MEN
FANTASTIC FOUR VS. THE AVENGERS
FANTASTIC FOUR VS. THE ILLUMINATI
FANTASTIC FOUR VS. THE INITIATIVE

But the most fun of all, right now at least, is that this character isn't registered with the SHRA. And the scene in my mind where this character registers is pure gold. Just because he's clearly not someone used to bureaucracy.

[CyberCoyote]

In keeping with my theme of high stakes of adventures for the Fantastic Four, here are some more ideas.

1. Fantastic Four versus The U-Foes: To my knowledge this hasn't been done before. I would have members of The U-Foes secretly ambush different members of the F.F. one by one. The U-Foes would attack the Fantastic Four when their guard is down.



I hear the U-Foes will be in the SI mini, but it's Ben, Johnny, and the kids only.



9. Have the team fight Apocalypse I would like to see Apocalyse turn the team into his Four Horsemen and see how them try to escape the situation and defeat Apocalypse.

10.TBA

Ooooh.. that's really cool! It would open them up to changes in their powers, too. Does the big A do non-mutants?

[CyberCoyote]

You can't go wrong with a brand new logo.


One of the things I loved about Mike Wieringo's run was the new logo.

That's what the FF comic needs.A logo that reads "21st century".

It is changed, but it kinda stinks.

I liked the one in the 70's, it was pretty neat. Instead of going 'retro', which is the hangup most folks have with the book, it does need to move forward, though.

[Jim Thompson]

I think people are going to hate this thought, but in all honesty if I wanted to fix Fantastic Four the first thing I'd do is give John Byrne a call and see if he'd be interested in returning to the property.

[Magneto Rocks]

Byrne wrote some phenomenal stuff back in the 80s, but I just don't think he'd be good for the book now. As has been pointed out, the Fantastic Four, moreso than any other major comic brand, HAS to move forward, it's a key part of the concept. And Byrne's stuck in the past these days.

[Jim Thompson]

Byrne wrote some phenomenal stuff back in the 80s, but I just don't think he'd be good for the book now. As has been pointed out, the Fantastic Four, moreso than any other major comic brand, HAS to move forward, it's a key part of the concept. And Byrne's stuck in the past these days.I don't think the changes in FF would be more than he can handle. He LOVES FF, and has a really good grasp of what makes them work.

[JonniRandom]

They should make them similar to the Doom Patrol in eccentricity, have them run around the space/time continuum and numerous parallel worlds and suchlike...healing them, not unlike Exiles possibly?

[Bulky Brent]

I don't think their is much they can do to make this book any better then it is now they tried pretty much everything Guest Cameos, tie ins,temporary member replacements,hardships between Reed and Sue, ect.The most they can do is give the title the right writer and hope for the best.

[ANewHope]

If someone could take the time to find the link where Millar discusses his run on Fantastic Four, 1985, and Wolverine, he states that he is going to do a story called "The Death of the Invisible Woman".

Not only am I excited about what Millar is planning for the Fantastic Four, but the idea to kill off a member of the team, I actually suggested in this thread.

[Magneto Rocks]

The most they can do is give the title the right writer and hope for the best.

Exactly. I still resent the implication that the FF *need* fixing. To bump sales? Sure, I can see that. But to be a succesful comic book? Ben, Sue, Johnny and Reed have been doing that since before Spidey, Hulk and ANY of the Avengers short of Cap even existed, and they've done so just fine for the past forty years. They don't need "fixing"- just a writer who actually cares about them. And as far as I'm concerned, they have that just fine right now.

[jackolover]

If someone could take the time to find the link where Millar discusses his run on Fantastic Four, 1985, and Wolverine, he states that he is going to do a story called "The Death of the Invisible Woman".

Not only am I excited about what Millar is planning for the Fantastic Four, but the idea to kill off a member of the team, I actually suggested in this thread.

It's already been done in 'Death in the Family', just prior to the CW. Sue got killed by a bolt from a creature who found it's way into the Baxter builing, and Sue tried to stop it, and it's ray went strainght through her force field and killed her. Johnny freaked out and got into a time machine and changed to a time line where Johnny saved Sue from dying.

Maybe Millar will take up this story of a time line where Sue did get killed, and the FF have to go on with life without Sue.

[Vegetarian Goat]

I don't think killing off a member is the way to go. What the FF needs is more heady concepts, and less superhero antics. Make the reader think instead of feed them the same popcorn movie we've been getting since waid's run.

[J. Robb]

I think people are going to hate this thought, but in all honesty if I wanted to fix Fantastic Four the first thing I'd do is give John Byrne a call and see if he'd be interested in returning to the property.
I loved Byrne's run, but I don't think he would have any impact today. You can't go home again.

It would be like if Lee & Kirby returned to the titles in the 80s, kids like me would have been turned off by the old fashioned style.

[ANewHope]

It's already been done in 'Death in the Family', just prior to the CW. Sue got killed by a bolt from a creature who found it's way into the Baxter builing, and Sue tried to stop it, and it's ray went strainght through her force field and killed her. Johnny freaked out and got into a time machine and changed to a time line where Johnny saved Sue from dying.

Maybe Millar will take up this story of a time line where Sue did get killed, and the FF have to go on with life without Sue.

It's not about whether its been done before, it's all about the execution of the story. This is Millar we're talking about, I'm sure he has something wild planned. 13 more issues of Fantastic Four to go.

In the interview, he stated that the first 4 issues involved a lot of setup and that everything would be in place for the conflict in the next story arc.

It'll be like Grant Morrison's Batman run, everything has been set up and now it's time for Batman RIP.

[princesa]

Honestly I'm not a big FF fan the only time I bought it was for the Panther and Storm. But in the right hands (like any characters) they're good. Reed has become very interesting of late and I always liked Sue...I could see myself buying it I'm following their Skrull series.

[Mister Mets]

Don't break it.

Get impressive creators who have good plans for the series and the characters.

This seems to be happening with Millar/ Hitch.

[Frank]

Let's see what Millar and Hitch are doing first. Millar rarely has no plans, if he decided to jump on FF it seems he knows he can improve on what has been done before with these characters. Frankly if these guys cannot succeed on this book, I don't who or what will.