Angel

[YoungG03]

Man; I was watching the the premere of the flinal series and I almost ciried....Mann. It should be on TV. I wanted to see a contuation of the Gangs time in the law firm and such...But oh well


Oh yea someone explain that whole Angel cant have sex thing again (cause he had sex and didnt turn bad)

[Quarterwolf]

Angel can have sex. It is when he feels total contentment or peace that he looses his soul. or in other words he can bang people all day but having sex with someone he loves would make him loose his soul.

[Leslie Lee III]

It's a curse put on him by Gypsies where if he ever gets true happiness he loses his soul and reverts back to his souless vampire state. It's because they knew if he had a soul, he'd suffer and as soon as that ended they wanted him too...revert back to the evil killer they wanted to punish. Yeah, I guess it doesn't make much sense when you really think about it.

[Taltos]

^^^ yup is he feels true bliss he turns evil

Yeah i miss that show too it was my favorite, so awesome, i am glad the let it rest before it got stale but i still think it had at least one season left. If you go by what they tried to do in the last few episodes:wrap up buffy story, kill new leasion(spelling), reunite with his son, resolve hatred between spike and angel, save the universe, kill the guy from season one who had one hand(i forget his name), save gunn from imprisonment, etc.

but this showed did have the best ending of all time "i want to slay the dragon"

[VCreed32]

Think of it as the DeLorean from Back to the Future.
Happiness = 88 miles per hour
Sex = Flux capicitor
Unless artificially induced, both need to happen for the curse to be removed.

[Toonimator]

Angel expresses his thought about this to Wesley when debating whether to continue seeing werewolf-girl. He's worried because he, and most viewers, equated sex to "moment of perfect happiness", as evidenced when Darla seduced him. Wes explained that 99.9% of relationships make do with ALMOST-perfect happiness. And as we see in the finale, now he's okay with it. He's got plenty to worry about anyhow, Buffy was his first experience in almost a century after gaining the soul, first love, first sex, so, yeah, he became "content". Thought his problems were over. He's learned more since then, and gained more responsibility which weighs heavily... so now he can get some, even if in love, and there'll always be enough other things going on that he can't experience a perfect moment.

[CTgo]

Did anybody else like the Angel episode Damage? I thought Navi Rawat was great as Dana the unstable slayer. There are some pictures of that episode on www.navirawat.com .

[Extreme_too]

Did anybody else like the Angel episode Damage? I thought Navi Rawat was great as Dana the unstable slayer. There are some pictures of that episode on www.navirawat.com .

Dude, there wasn't an episode from Season 5 that I didn't like.

-Aaron

[Forefinger]

I'm watching the re-runs on TNT now for the first time. They just started working at Wolfram & Hart. I'm sad that this series was cancelled. I hope that they do something else with the frachise ala a big screen Angel movie.

[borateen]

Think of it as the DeLorean from Back to the Future.
Happiness = 88 miles per hour
Sex = Flux capicitor
Unless artificially induced, both need to happen for the curse to be removed.

That is the best analogy ever!!

[Extreme_too]

Angel doesn't HAVE TO have sex for the curse to take affect, right? I don't think they ever said that on either show.

Tt is possible to have perfect happiness and not be getting your thing on.

-Aaron

[Extreme_too]

I'm watching right now and I'm kinda shocked that they're not broadcasting it in wide-screen. What the hell?

-Aaron

[artemisboy]

Yeah, I like when Angel is in the car and tells the cop to pull over and that he's a perv who likes little girls. Oh, and when Rick and his friends toss her in the car, but then she pulls out her gun and makes Rick pee his pants. Or when Mae puts the cigarette in the resteraunt owner's mouth and then tells his hooker friends, "Give a man something to suck on and he's happy." Too funny. Oh!... Wrong Angel. My bad. ;)

- Peter

[Toonimator]

I'm watching right now and I'm kinda shocked that they're not broadcasting it in wide-screen. What the hell?

In syndication it's broadcast full-screen. Bleah.

As to your sex question, I don't think ONLY sex can turn him. I was afraid when baby Connor was around that Angel might experience that moment of perfect happiness eventually, like at Connor's first word or first steps or an adorable face coupled with Angel's own pride & satisfaction in being a father.

[Extreme_too]

In syndication it's broadcast full-screen. Bleah.

As to your sex question, I don't think ONLY sex can turn him. I was afraid when baby Connor was around that Angel might experience that moment of perfect happiness eventually, like at Connor's first word or first steps or an adorable face coupled with Angel's own pride & satisfaction in being a father.

That would have been an AWESOME development! Though, he wasn't around for those things..........

-Aaron

[YoungG03]

I had thought sex meant perfect happiness......


Ye and I been watching the shows on TNT too.......

One thing I dont like bout Angel (well two) is that Wheldon always had them do that walking scene. And thene there was smart ass Wess always lookin cool shooting people but never working!

[Senior Partner]

I was so depressed when this show went off the air, but man did it ever go out with a bang. In retrospect, going out in it's prime will make it forever remembered with fondness in the geek community, and I'm pretty happy about that.

Can't wait for Season 5 on DVD

[Dizzy D]

In syndication it's broadcast full-screen. Bleah.

As to your sex question, I don't think ONLY sex can turn him. I was afraid when baby Connor was around that Angel might experience that moment of perfect happiness eventually, like at Connor's first word or first steps or an adorable face coupled with Angel's own pride & satisfaction in being a father.

Which, I believe, was one of Wesley's motivations for kidnapping Connor.

[Boomstick King]

Which, I believe, was one of Wesley's motivations for kidnapping Connor.

Never thought of that before, but it does make sense. Maybe the prophecy wasn't false after all.

[I Must Break U]

Dude, there wasn't an episode from Season 5 that I didn't like.

-Aaron

Amen brother! Every season five episode kicked ass to me. I cant wait till they release it on dvd

[Nate Grey]

I missed the Cordelia ep, the Lorne as Hulk ep, the psycho slayer ep, and the first Andrew ep (caught the second Andrew ep). I figured, hey, they'll show it in reruns over the summer! Then they announced they were cancelling it, so I knew that wasn't gonna happen.:(

So, yeah, I especially can't wait till season five comes out on DVD.

[riotgear]

They're showing season 5 on TNT at 5pm Pacific.

Today's episode:

"Harm's Way", Episode #509.
Someone frames Harmony for the murder of a demon-rights activist who was mediating an important truce between warring tribes.

[Bolo Musashi]

Amen brother! Every season five episode kicked ass to me. I cant wait till they release it on dvd

Really look forward to watching the 'puppet' episode again.

[Rich L]

Really look forward to watching the 'puppet' episode again.

"You're just a wee little puppet man!" :D

[Brian Cronin]

Was it ever confirmed that Willow put the EXACT same Gypsy curse on Angel?

Maybe he CAN be perfectly happy.

I mean, have we seen it come up SINCE then?

-Brian

[Rich L]

As far as I understood it, the curse that Willow put on was the exact same curse, yes - and Willow seemed possessed by Gypsy spirits when she replaced it, so chances are its the same.

If it wasn't, its unlikely that the 'ecstasy' epsiode in the first season of Angel would have worked, when it brought out Angelus temporarily while Angel was high.

On the other hand, I'm fairly certain it was implied that he had sex with the cute werewolf lady in the last season (can't recall her name) - its a fair bet that he didn't tell her the specifics of the curse.

"So...perfect happiness turns you evil, huh?"
"Yep. Happened when I slept with Buffy."
"....I see. But not when you slept with me."
"Um, apparently not."
"So she's better than me, that's what you're saying?"
"Er..."
"She made you happy and I don't, that's what you're saying?!?"
"Er...help?"

[Nate Grey]

Was it ever confirmed that Willow put the EXACT same Gypsy curse on Angel?

Maybe he CAN be perfectly happy.

I mean, have we seen it come up SINCE then?

-Brian

Well, in the storyarc of the much-hated season 4, they needed Angelus so they made Angel have a dream/illusion of everything going right, achieving perfect happiness so his soul would leave. So, yeah, I'd say the curse is still in place.

[YoungG03]

I kinda wanted the last scene of Angel becoming a human.........Right after sPIKE (WELL A MINUTE OR SOOOO)

But oh well

[SPAfreak]

Angel did kill Connor in a way, that's why Sahjahn was able to place the false prophecy. In the season 4 finale he kills him in that Sports store. Joss talks about it in the commentary.

I just want to know if the Shanshu prophecy has already been fulfilled already. He's been human twice: In the first season when his blood was altered by the Mohra demon and again in the third season when he switched bodies with that old guy.

[cosmicspidey]

It's a curse put on him by Gypsies where if he ever gets true happiness he loses his soul and reverts back to his souless vampire state. It's because they knew if he had a soul, he'd suffer and as soon as that ended they wanted him too...revert back to the evil killer they wanted to punish. Yeah, I guess it doesn't make much sense when you really think about it.

It makes perfect sense. Angel is suffering with a soul for the crimes Angelus commited. Angel would do everything in his power to make sure that Angelus could never come back. If Angel knows that true happiness will bring back Angelus, then he will do whatever he canto make sure he never experiences it. If there wasn't the threat of Angelus returning, he'd be free to experience perfect happiness, which wouldn't be much of a punishment.

Of course, that probably would have worked better if the gypsies had told Angel instead of Jenny Calendar.

Which, I believe, was one of Wesley's motivations for kidnapping Connor.

Never thought about it that way. I guess Angel experiencing perfect happiness would most likely result in Angelus slaughtering Connor, but I don't know if that scenario specifically was what Wesley thought would happen.

Was it ever confirmed that Willow put the EXACT same Gypsy curse on Angel?

Maybe he CAN be perfectly happy.

I mean, have we seen it come up SINCE then?

-Brian

Yes, there was an episode where Angel was slipped a drug which simulated perfect happiness, which drove him evil. For some reason, when the drug wore off, so did the evil. Kind of iffy storytelling, because in Buffy season 2 the evil didn't wear off after the sex did.

Well, in the storyarc of the much-hated season 4, they needed Angelus so they made Angel have a dream/illusion of everything going right, achieving perfect happiness so his soul would leave. So, yeah, I'd say the curse is still in place.

That's how they took away his soul?! That is so cool! I never realized that. I thought it was just supposed to be a big tease, or maybe just Angel's soul's last hurrah before it left. I had no idea that it played a purpose storywise. Thanks!

[Joe no Sleep]

looking forward to a second look at the episode where Illyria meets Fred's parents. At the time, I hated sitting through the shaggy-dog-story stuff with Angel and Spike chasing Buffy in Italy and I tuned out.

[DMike]

I just want to know if the Shanshu prophecy has already been fulfilled already. He's been human twice: In the first season when his blood was altered by the Mohra demon and again in the third season when he switched bodies with that old guy.

Actually, I'm pretty sure Connor WAS his Shanshu, so to speak. In their last scene, Connor says he doesn't want Angel to get killed, or something like that. Angel tells him "As long as you're alive I won't." Connor's presence, even as a baby, definitely humanized him a little bit more on the inside.

Of course, I could be wrong. After all, I loved season 4.

[VCreed32]

It makes perfect sense. Angel is suffering with a soul for the crimes Angelus commited. Angel would do everything in his power to make sure that Angelus could never come back. If Angel knows that true happiness will bring back Angelus, then he will do whatever he canto make sure he never experiences it. If there wasn't the threat of Angelus returning, he'd be free to experience perfect happiness, which wouldn't be much of a punishment.And it is very fortunate for the gypsy's the Angel turned out to be such a nice guy, because just because you have a sould doens't mean you're a saint

Of course, that probably would have worked better if the gypsies had told Angel instead of Jenny Calendar.



Never thought about it that way. I guess Angel experiencing perfect happiness would most likely result in Angelus slaughtering Connor, but I don't know if that scenario specifically was what Wesley thought would happen.



Yes, there was an episode where Angel was slipped a drug which simulated perfect happiness, which drove him evil. For some reason, when the drug wore off, so did the evil. Kind of iffy storytelling, because in Buffy season 2 the evil didn't wear off after the sex did.



That's how they took away his soul?! That is so cool! I never realized that. I thought it was just supposed to be a big tease, or maybe just Angel's soul's last hurrah before it left. I had no idea that it played a purpose storywise. Thanks!Yep, and once again perfect happiness was achieved by... boffment!! ;)

[Extreme_too]

Damn, what's with all the hatin' on "The Girl in Question"? In my opinion, that was one of the best episodes of ANGEL ever! I mean, Spike and Angel running around Italy trying to stop a war from happening in L.A. while also trying to get with Buffy AND one-up her new boyfriend/they're mutual arch-nemisis, The Immortal--that's TV at it's best, kids.

-Aaron

[Rich L]

And the slo-mo fight in the club to decide who'd go over to her was classic...

[Dizzy D]

Never thought about it that way. I guess Angel experiencing perfect happiness would most likely result in Angelus slaughtering Connor, but I don't know if that scenario specifically was what Wesley thought would happen.



To quote Shack (www.televisionwithoutpity.com , the recap for episode "Loyalty"), who is far more eloquent at this than I am

As Angel sips from a glass of blood, he dorks off about how happy he is at the thought of watching Connor grow up, happy to see him learn to ride a bike, happy to see him go to his prom. Angel's just happier than a smurf convention. Get it? Get it? Happy. ["So he's happy. That's great! He...oh. Right." -- Wing Chun] Wesley, working quietly over at his desk, certainly does. He stares off into space, imagining that special day when Connor graduates high school, which, if Angel's happy speech is any indication, will be followed by a special breaking news story, followed by a very special memorial, followed by a very special mass funeral. Why this hasn't occurred to the others -- or even Angel himself -- is beyond me.

[YoungG03]

Hey how come all vampires are daned? Moat of them aint cause there predcament...Thats a bad rap mane!

Oh yea; when Cordy came back; did she really come back? BTW I luved this episode. That lawyer is cool as hell.


Lindsey: Who is this? Who is this? I came to fight the vampire with a soul. Guess you shouldn't have sold it, huh? Look at you, from champion to pathetic corporate puppet in just a few months. You used to have fire in your heart. Now all you got in there is that big honkin' sword. How does that feel, champ?
Angel: Could be worse...if it had been made out of wood, you dumbass.

Idiot.

[Grant]

And the slo-mo fight in the club to decide who'd go over to her was classic...

Yeah I love that part. Or Spike's mod flashback to 1960s Italy. I thought it was pretty awesome episode.

[Jared]

ISTR a scene where Cordy poked Angel with a stake when he was gushing about Connor, just to make sure he wasn't *too* happy.

Likewise, when he slept with werewolf girl, she kept a stake by the bed, as another layer of protection I guess.

The drug bringing about Angelus temporaily really doesn't make much sense. Especially since Wesley seemed to think that it wasn't really Angelus, since the bliss was artificial, or something like that.

[YoungG03]

Yea saw the last episaode today....Very heartfelt.

[Extreme_too]

Yea saw the last episaode today....Very heartfelt.

I watched it, too. Has to be the 8 time I've watched it, it's that good.

-Aaron

[Donald Stone]

I think Angel has the best final 5 minutes of any TV show I can remember. That meeting in the alley was just perfect.

"Personally, I wanna slay the dragon."

[Raziel]

finaly saw all of the last season. wow. with one exception (the uboat one) loved every bit of it!! that last ep. and ending...great! the whole last few episodes made me wonder if buffy and the scoopies could have done that to wolfram and heart?

[YoungG03]

Im gettin the last season dvd...It that powerful......Wes actin in it was too much. TOO MUCH. And the way Angel look when Fred told him of Wes death. Wes did a hell of a job on this show.

Spike also came up during his parts and did a hella of a job this season. Damn; and now they beggin for a return....Personally I like this ending of all endings..

BTW; I never saw the part where Angel signed over his rights to becoming human (Me and my bruh was wrestlin over a cheeseburger) Felt sad but a true hero knows sacrifice.

Spwaking of sacrifice; aint it sad it really did not mean anything?! Like my man Gunn said to that lady......Lord....BTW I enjoyed Gunn perfprmance thuout the series as well. And I love his relationship wit Wes. (I swear Wes had some of the best stories and relationships with the cast within Angel)


What else....
The comedy of that old wizard and that blood donor was scary and FUUNY at the same time. (I mean scary by if I seen one of those spooky things I be scared man. Speakin of the old wizard; I liked is episodes as well. "Mortals were not meant to play tis game...Give me your best shot" How come his ass aint make some healin medicine...He just lok sad but he could take some punishment!

You know; I agree wit the whole Fred transformation...t make sense...Besides what was she gona do at the end anyway; rite?



DAMN; i luved this show.

[Joe no Sleep]

What else....
The comedy of that old wizard and that blood donor was scary and FUUNY at the same time. (I mean scary by if I seen one of those spooky things I be scared man. Speakin of the old wizard; I liked is episodes as well. "Mortals were not meant to play tis game...Give me your best shot" How come his ass aint make some healin medicine...He just lok sad but he could take some punishment!

You know; I agree wit the whole Fred transformation...t make sense...Besides what was she gona do at the end anyway; rite?

DAMN; i luved this show.

I wish the whole Circle of the Black Thron had appeared back in seasonb two and not at the very last two episodes. This show could have used awesome villians like that. Cyrus Vail (the old wizard) could have been a lot of fun.

[DMike]

I like the fact that they came at the last minute. They're a secret society, and holding them off until the end made it seem like they really were secret. If it was brought up back in season two, they wouldn't have been as special by season five.

[Joe no Sleep]

I like the fact that they came at the last minute. They're a secret society, and holding them off until the end made it seem like they really were secret. If it was brought up back in season two, they wouldn't have been as special by season five.

True, but we would've gotten more out of them, and I found them to much more interesting than Holtz, Sahjahn, evil Connor and evil Cordelia. It would've added
more intrigue.

[YoungG03]

I wish the whole Circle of the Black Thron had appeared back in seasonb two and not at the very last two episodes. This show could have used awesome villians like that. Cyrus Vail (the old wizard) could have been a lot of fun.


Yea...I mean one didnt even have to shown they werre part of a secret group. They could have appeared in seperate episodes. And then for the Finale show that they all are together. Cyrus Vail would have been real cool along wit that blood drinker..

Anyway; villians dont tend to live long on the show.

Sidebar:
Does Buffy come on tv?
How far into the Buffy series was Angel on...Season 3?
And if Buffy does not come on tv; is it worth watching the whole dvd set for Angel? I rmeeber that at first Angel was giving clues and shit and thats how got into the whole vampire thing (I left when Angel left though.)

[Ryan K]

Does Buffy come on tv?

I believe it is still repeating on FX during the week.

How far into the Buffy series was Angel on...Season 3?

Angel Season 1 started when Buffy Season 4 started.

As far as introducing the Circle earlier. I'm OK with the villains being introduced as late as it was, but I wish there had been either a mention of them in a previous season, or maybe a couple throw away lines earlier.

[Grant]

As far as introducing the Circle earlier. I'm OK with the villains being introduced as late as it was, but I wish there had been either a mention of them in a previous season, or maybe a couple throw away lines earlier.

But lets be realistic here they probably didn't come up with the idea of the Circle of Black Thorn until the fifth season.

[Ryan K]

But lets be realistic here they probably didn't come up with the idea of the Circle of Black Thorn until the fifth season.


You're right. I'm sure they didn't. But that's very unlike Whedon, who usually has these things planned years in advance.

Course there's that whole "cancelled" thing that probably threw a wrench in the works. ;)

[Forefinger]

I think that they got the word that they were going to be cancelled, and Whedon had to think of something cool to wrap the season and series up with in a few episodes. Angel and the gang couldn't totally win over Wolf, Ram, & Heart, so they did the next best thing to mess up the planned apocalypse. Great ending. The show really hit a high mark with that last season in quality and stories. The end, rewatched it the other day on TV, just left everyone begging for more, but provided an end for Angel and crew.

[Grant]

You're right. I'm sure they didn't. But that's very unlike Whedon, who usually has these things planned years in advance.

Course there's that whole "cancelled" thing that probably threw a wrench in the works. ;)

Well you can plan some things but ideas can come to you even after you plan stuff. And it's not like he outlines every detail it's more like "after a few years Willow goes to the dark side" or "Buffy will get a kid sister" or "someone comes out of the closet."

And I think the cancellation was a major factor like Forefinger explained. Angel & the crew had to take out somebody major other then Wolfram & Hart.

But keep in mind every member of the Black Thorn was seen in a previous episode that season. We knew all these guys were major players.

[YoungG03]

Another thing; why did he tell heis secertary that he forgot what it felt like beinh human wheb during that Buffy croosover he was human for a day?

Did the creators just forget?

[DMike]

I took it as him baiting her, seeing how she would react. I think she knew about the Shanshu thing, and he was trying to test her, seeing if she'd blab about his humanity-angst to Hamilton. He already knew she was trying to get into the Fang Gang, and as a vampire (and not a particularly intelligent one) she wasn't trustable. I honestly think he was baiting her in order to test her, to prove that Harmony would betray him on account of being a vapid gullible demon-thing.

Besides, she doesn't know that he was human for a day. Hell, even Buffy doesn't remember it; only he does. If my theory is right, it doesn't matter if him saying it was true or not, since Harmony doesn't know that.

[YoungG03]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[YoungG03]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00021PNSG/qid=1100911481/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/102-7668976-3594560?v=glance&s=dvd


this a good deal?

[Ryan K]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00021PNSG/qid=1100911481/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/102-7668976-3594560?v=glance&s=dvd


this a good deal?

Looks like a pretty good deal to me. I see Seasons 1-3 for sale usually at about $45.00 apiece. $40.00 apice if they're on sale, but that's usually rare.

The only way I can think of a better retail deal is if you wait intil Season 5 comes out in January or February and Best Buy or Circuit City has one of those deal where all the seasons are $40-45 but you sve more with each set you buy. Something along the lines of "Save $10 if you buy 2. $20 if you by 3. $30 if you buy 4. $40 if you buy 5." Just an example, but they usually run a sale similar to that a lot of the time. Course there's no guarantee they will.

[YoungG03]

Dont know if this makes sense or not but whom did Buffy love more....Spike or Angel?

[Gaz]

Dont know if this makes sense or not but whom did Buffy love more....Spike or Angel?
Angel.
It's pretty much said in Chosen. IIRC, she tells Spike she loves him, and he tells her he knows it's not true.

[Joe no Sleep]

Dont know if this makes sense or not but whom did Buffy love more....Spike or Angel?

Herself. :D

[Tommy]

Herself. :D
Ohh snap! So true. Final season of Buffy she was about to declair herself Jesus.

[Gaz]

Ohh snap! So true. Final season of Buffy she was about to declair herself Jesus.
Really, I got more of a Patton vibe.

[Tommy]

Really, I got more of a Patton vibe.
Well she was sitting around claiming that the only way for them to survive (I.E. SAVED) was to blindly follow her to their deaths by doing the exact same thing that had previously resulted in several fatalities. And might I note that the first time involved rushing headlong at a compeltly unknown enemy. There might have been nothing about Caleb in any book but they never bothered to check and the second time she wanted to do the exact same thing they had allready sent Spike and Warren off to find out about him and they were not back yet. No wonder they all decided Faith should be in charge. She might have lead them into a trap but she was not repeating an allready failed plan while telling everyone how much better she was and how they should liten to her and follow her with out question.

[Gaz]

And that's different from Patton, how? :p

[BlairH]

And that's different from Patton, how? :p

(Pandora Tomorrow reference) Hippy! ;)