Comics With Female Lead Characters Sell Less Copies - True Or False?

[Robo Ape]

I have noted a few threads talking about titles such as Wonder Woman etc not selling so well.

I just wondered do people think that comics, especially superhero ones, sell less well if the lead is female?

Or is their no difference if the title has a male or female lead character?

[Alex Dragon]

I have noted a few threads talking about titles such as Wonder Woman etc not selling so well.

I just wondered do people think that comics, especially superhero ones, sell less well if the lead is female?

Or is their no difference if the title has a male or female lead character?

It's absolutely true and I always get a kick out of people trying to rationalize that it's other reasons other than it's a comic starring a "girl" as the reason comics starring a female lead usually doesn't do well.

The same thing happens with movies starring female action heroes. With the realitively small exception of a hand full of films, most action movies with female leads don't do as well as most of the stuff with male leads.

The same lame arguement is given for both the movies and the comics..."Those books/movies usually aren't written as well...", "They don't get good people to work on those properties...", "They don't put as much effort in those...", "They don't promote them as much...", etc., etc...

The truth is fairly simple but no one wants to admit it because everyone's trying to act all PC and above that sort of thing. Basically, the majority of comic buyers and movie goers are male. For various reasons most guys don't like or feel comfortable with a female hero carrying the story. Not all guys have that mindset but enough of them do to keep those books/movies from being big hits in most cases.

[stealthwise]

It certainly has to do with audience. Laurell K Hamilton's abysmal Anita Blake books, which features a female action lead, and has devolved into pretty much soft-core porn at this point, sells by the truckload. Why? Because the target audience is 30-40 year old women, and many of that demographic read novels, and are apparently into "devil's threeways."

Movies and comics, on the other hand, as Alex Dragon pointed out, are usually more centered around a male audience and what's perceived to be what they want. That's why terrible action crap with female leads always has to have a skinny, gorgeous bombshell. Trouble is, there's likely only a small percentage of men that will fall for that alone, and the movie itself needs to be able to stand out by using some kind of unique concept, or at least a commercial property tie-in. Think Resident Evil, Tomb Raider for the latter; Underworld for the former.

But ultimately, while high quality won't necessarily guarantee success-as not everyone will see it-poor quality leads to bad word-of-mouth (or is obvious within the trailers) and will sink a film, like Catwoman.

I don't think it's as easy as just saying that a female action role can't succeed, it's just that they've all been done in almost the EXACT same way in North America for the past 20-30 years.

[Robo Ape]

It's absolutely true and I always get a kick out of people trying to rationalize that it's other reasons other than it's a comic starring a "girl" as the reason comics starring a female lead usually doesn't do well.

The same thing happens with movies starring female action heroes. With the realitively small exception of a hand full of films, most action movies with female leads don't do as well as most of the stuff with male leads.

The same lame arguement is given for both the movies and the comics..."Those books/movies usually aren't written as well...", "They don't get good people to work on those properties...", "They don't put as much effort in those...", "They don't promote them as much...", etc., etc...

The truth is fairly simple but no one wants to admit it because everyone's trying to act all PC and above that sort of thing. Basically, the majority of comic buyers and movie goers are male. For various reasons most guys don't like or feel comfortable with a female hero carrying the story. Not all guys have that mindset but enough of them do to keep those books/movies from being big hits in most cases.

Interestingly I probable read a lot more titles with female lead characters than male ones, because a lot of the time I find they have a more interesting approach to the to the lead characters. It sometimes feels like a lot of the titles with male leads are often written in a very generic fashion, especially when it comes to male superheroes. It's like publishers have found a narrow range of characteristics that work for male characters & their damn well going to stick to them no matter what.

That's not to say that female characters especially female superhero characters aren't also constrained in many ways especially in their appearance.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

It's true now, but if/when I become a comic book writer, my goal will be to prove that wrong.

Dead wrong.

[JCAll]

The same thing happens with movies starring female action heroes. With the realitively small exception of a hand full of films, most action movies with female leads don't do as well as most of the stuff with male leads.

So when the next bad Death Wish rip-off with a female lead bombs out of the universe it's sexism.
But the universal praise for Alien/s is a fluke?

I can't really believe that.

[Michael P]

I just wondered do people think that comics, especially superhero ones, sell less well if the lead is female?

I don't think it, I know it. Check the monthly sales figures analyses Paul O'Brien and Marc Olivier-Frisch do; what few mainstream titles starring women there are sell abysmally in comparison to the titles starring men, and have as far back as they go. Alternative titles starring women are more numerous, but don't seem to do any better on average than the alternative titles starring men or featuring ensemble casts.

About the only outlier is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and even that sold tepidly until the most recent series, whose primary attractions are that it's a canon continuation of the TV show, and Joss Whedon is directly involved with it.

[Michael P]

So when the next bad Death Wish rip-off with a female lead bombs out of the universe it's sexism.
But the universal praise for Alien/s is a fluke?

I can't really believe that.

Aliens is a fluke, but not because of that. It's a fluke because it's one of the few female-headlined action movies that's any good.

In movies, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Studio execs tell themselves nobody wants to see action movies with female leads, so on the rare occasions when they greenlight them, they either hire third-rate directors, actors and writers, which results in a bad movie, or they meddle too much, which results in a bad movie. Then when the movies come out, get panned, and perform poorly, they tell themselves it's because nobody wants to see action movies with female leads.

[Alex Scott]

Fruits Basket.

Not an action comic by any means, but a comic with a female lead nonetheless, and undeniably hugely popular.

(of course, it is explicitly aimed at girls and sold in a market where girls are more likely to find it...)

[stealthwise]

Terminator was also quite good, of course. But again, like Alien/s, the main focus wasn't on the heroine and her breasts, it was about telling a cool science-fiction story with visually compelling villains and an interesting high concept. Having solid female leads was a larger part of the whole, and today's Hollywood (and many comic books) seem to forget that you can't just slap some t&a on your ads and expect people to flock to it.

[Zahir]

My personal opinion...

Our society is rather polarized according to gender. Not overwhelmingly so, nor as much as others (like Japan, Isreal or Brazil, to name a few). But it is there.

Which means stories, films, t.v. series, etc. with female leads have one more thing to overcome. It can be done. It has been done. But it is a little harder with a female lead. For now.

There's a similar problem with overly intelligent heroes, because Americans seem to distrust intellectualism. Yet The West Wing and Frasier (to name two examples) have at their heart "heroes" who are by any definition eggheads. And both were hits. It is harder, i.e. tricky, but not impossible. Not at all.

[Robo Ape]

My personal opinion...

Our society is rather polarized according to gender. Not overwhelmingly so, nor as much as others (like Japan, Isreal or Brazil, to name a few). But it is there.

Which means stories, films, t.v. series, etc. with female leads have one more thing to overcome. It can be done. It has been done. But it is a little harder with a female lead. For now.

There's a similar problem with overly intelligent heroes, because Americans seem to distrust intellectualism. Yet The West Wing and Frasier (to name two examples) have at their heart "heroes" who are by any definition eggheads. And both were hits. It is harder, i.e. tricky, but not impossible. Not at all.

Do you think this also applies to female led TV 'action' shows, the only one of late that seems to have done OK is the Sarah Connor Chronicles & that's sold on the Terminator name as much as anything.

[Alex Dragon]

So when the next bad Death Wish rip-off with a female lead bombs out of the universe it's sexism.
But the universal praise for Alien/s is a fluke?

I can't really believe that.

If a bad Death Wish rip off was made with a female lead and one was made with a male lead most people would put their money on the one with the male lead to make more money even if the female lead one was slightly better done. And the people who put their money on the male lead rip off would win.

It's not that hard to believe because we see it all the time.

[Captain Yesterday]

Comics with female leads definitely sell lower numbers than similar titles with male leads.

The longest running female superhero (that immediately comes to my mind) is "Supergirl"; a female version of an existing superhero. Please tell me if there's anything older and/or longer running than this.

This week I bought two comics with female leads (granted, neither of them were strictly superhero fiction), but I feel they are both superior to the majority of what's on offer:

Echo by Terry Moore (Seriously...this is the best book, that my LCS stocks fewer than a hundred copies of, ever.)

Suburban Glamour by Jamie McKelvie (The story isn't as tight as it could be, but McKelvie's art is unparalleled.)

I will never regret buying either of these books, but I definitely feel I may regret many of my other purchases this month. Good comics featuring women are available, but it seems no-one wants them.

Perhaps they've never looked at them beyond the covers?

[Gilda Dent]

I have noted a few threads talking about titles such as Wonder Woman etc not selling so well.

I just wondered do people think that comics, especially superhero ones, sell less well if the lead is female?

Or is their no difference if the title has a male or female lead character?

Superhero comics, certainly, those with female leads don't sell as well.

If we look at manga, there's a little more balance. Of the top ten in sales in 2007, three featured female leads (Fruits Basket (# 2), Vampire Knight (# 7) and Absolute Boyfriend (# 8). Check out the aisles of you local Barnes and Noble and you're going to find a pretty significant number of title with female leads, not the equal of those with males, but a much better balance than with American superheroes.

The reasons are complex. The audience for American superheroes is predominantly males from 15-40, and boys are more likely to buy adventure stories (or fiction in general) with male protagonists than with female leads (the same is not true of girls, who tend to be more gender neutral in choice of protagonists; I'll see if I can find the research, but it consistently shows that boys strongly favor stories about boys, while girls are more likely to differentiate based on type of story). In addition, the most popular American superheroes are legacy characters, all of whom are either male or teams with the one exception being Wonder Woman, who doesn't sell as well.

Because the audience is young males, stories are aimed at them and designed around that market, which creates a positive feedback loop, keeping things somewhat insular. The female market is too small in what is already a niche market to cater to specifically, so the big companies don't, so the female market stays small, and it's difficult to break out of that loop, especially when there's this new alternative that does appeal to that market in the form of manga.

I'm going to be late if I don't leave for work this second.

[mrjayberry]

Predominatly male creators creating for predominatly male fans, isn't that the superhero comics industry. Most men have a hard time writing a female character that is more substance than flash. Comics should be good so when a comic is mostly just flash I'd rather be spending my money elsewhere.

Maybe some women in the comics industry should start up a company like Milestone, and just create stories that are so good that they demand to be noticed.

p.s. the last comic I thought about picking up with a female lead was Catwoman but then I heard she was going to another planet as part of some asinine crossover and that killed any intrest I had.

P.s.s. Where does a comic like Sam Kieths "The Maxx" fit into this discussion Julia had a fairly prominent role but is that considred an "ensemble" cast.

[Zahir]

Do you think this also applies to female led TV 'action' shows, the only one of late that seems to have done OK is the Sarah Connor Chronicles & that's sold on the Terminator name as much as anything.

Of course. On the other hand, Buffy and Xena were both hits, as were La Femme Nikita and Alias. Others failed--and I don't think the gender of the lead was ever the single factor that prevented shows like The Bionic Woman or Witchblade from doing as well as they might.

[Robo Ape]

Predominatly male creators creating for predominatly male fans, isn't that the superhero comics industry. Most men have a hard time writing a female character that is more substance than flash. Comics should be good so when a comic is mostly just flash I'd rather be spending my money elsewhere.

Maybe some women in the comics industry should start up a company like Milestone, and just create stories that are so good that they demand to be noticed.

p.s. the last comic I thought about picking up with a female lead was Catwoman but then I heard she was going to another planet as part of some asinine crossover and that killed any intrest I had.

P.s.s. Where does a comic like Sam Kieths "The Maxx" fit into this discussion Julia had a fairly prominent role but is that considred an "ensemble" cast.

Talking about women working in this industry, this is a very pertinent article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jan/23/gender.art) looking at not just female characters in comics but also at women writing & drawing comics.

[mrjayberry]

Thanks for the link, the superhero industrial complex can only be strengthened by the inclusion of more women.

[Alex Dragon]

Predominatly male creators creating for predominatly male fans, isn't that the superhero comics industry. Most men have a hard time writing a female character that is more substance than flash.

That's not always automatically true. Some men (probably most of them) have no problems writing a female character with substance but for superhero stories sometimes the female characters don't need to be fully formed or as "complex" as the male or lead characters in the book are.

For example, I feel Aunt May in the Spider-man comics is in most cases nothing more than a plot device. Sure she has her moments here and there over the years but at least in my opinion she isn't complex or of must substance other than to move Peter's story along. She really doesn't need to be any more than that most of the time.

On the other side of the coin is the women of the X-MEN. I think that most of the female characters in are more complex, interesting, and are of more "substance" than most of the male characters.

You have to ask yourself...Does the comic buying audience of superhero comics really even want women of "substance" or just their version of "cool" women who look really hot and kick butt? Do the writers not give the audience a woman of "substance" because they can't or because that audience is bored by it?


Maybe some women in the comics industry should start up a company like Milestone, and just create stories that are so good that they demand to be noticed.


If the books ended up in books stores they might do well. If they did it for the comicbook buying audience it would be a hard struggle. The MILESTONE books were well written and critcally aclaimed and still did pretty poorly all things considered. Despite all the complaining about poor "quality" you read on these boards the majority of posters don't really want "quality" and wouldn't even know "quality" if it fell on their heads. What they really want is "cool" and entertaining. That's why the stuff that sells so well does so. The really good "quality" stuff usually sells fairly low numbers.

[Robo Ape]

That's not always automatically true. Some men (probably most of them) have no problems writing a female character with substance but for superhero stories sometimes the female characters don't need to be fully formed or as "complex" as the male or lead characters in the book are.

For example, I feel Aunt May in the Spider-man comics is in most cases nothing more than a plot device. Sure she has her moments here and there over the years but at least in my opinion she isn't complex or of must substance other than to move Peter's story along. She really doesn't need to be any more than that most of the time.

On the other side of the coin is the women of the X-MEN. I think that most of the female characters in are more complex, interesting, and are of more "substance" than most of the male characters.

You have to ask yourself...Does the comic buying audience of superhero comics really even want women of "substance" or just their version of "cool" women who look really hot and kick butt? Do the writers not give the audience a woman of "substance" because they can't or because that audience is bored by it?



If the books ended up in books stores they might do well. If they did it for the comicbook buying audience it would be a hard struggle. The MILESTONE books were well written and critcally aclaimed and still did pretty poorly all things considered. Despite all the complaining about poor "quality" you read on these boards the majority of posters don't really want "quality" and wouldn't even know "quality" if it fell on their heads. What they really want is "cool" and entertaining. That's why the stuff that sells so well does so. The really good "quality" stuff usually sells fairly low numbers.

Quoted for truth. Don't you think a lot of the male X Men are quite bland compared to the women, actually taking the MCU as a whole their are more bland male characters than female?

[mrjayberry]

That's not always automatically true. Some men (probably most of them) have no problems writing a female character with substance but for superhero stories sometimes the female characters don't need to be fully formed or as "complex" as the male or lead characters in the book are.

My point wasn't that men don't want to write female characters. Sure they do and I'm sure they would rather do it well but at times it doesn't seem like the results are as good.

And the only time I expect my female characters to be "fully formed" is when they are the lead character in the book. I fully expect when I pick up Spiderman that Peter Parcker gets the lions share of the characterzation, not Mary Jane(or whoever he has now. I don't actually read Spiderman)

[Alex Dragon]

Quoted for truth. Don't you think a lot of the male X Men are quite bland compared to the women, actually taking the MCU as a whole their are more bland male characters than female?

When it comes to the X-Men the women tend to be more interesting and 3 dimensional. The X-Men probably has more female women readers than the typical Marvel book because of that. That's why the X-books have been such strong sellers for so long. They have a bit more of a broader audience.

[Alex Dragon]

My point wasn't that men don't want to write female characters. Sure they do and I'm sure they would rather do it well but at times it doesn't seem like the results are as good.

And the only time I expect my female characters to be "fully formed" is when they are the lead character in the book. I fully expect when I pick up Spiderman that Peter Parcker gets the lions share of the characterzation, not Mary Jane(or whoever he has now. I don't actually read Spiderman)

Sorry, unedited double post.

[Alex Dragon]

My point wasn't that men don't want to write female characters. Sure they do and I'm sure they would rather do it well but at times it doesn't seem like the results are as good.

And the only time I expect my female characters to be "fully formed" is when they are the lead character in the book. I fully expect when I pick up Spiderman that Peter Parcker gets the lions share of the characterzation, not Mary Jane(or whoever he has now. I don't actually read Spiderman)

I understood your point but I'm not sure you understand the point I was going for.

Since the majority of superhero comicbook audience is male and seems to only respond favorably to a limited number of plots, characterizations, and ideas it can be tough sometimes for a writer to give that audience a "fully formed" female character they'll like and respond to.
A writer might be able to write tons of "fully formed" females but that doesn't mean his/her audience will find those characterizations interesting, entertaining or likable.

It seems that there are only certain types of female lead characters most superhero male fans respond to favorably. They can't be seen as too "girly", "bitchy", "bossy", "needy", "frivolous", "sexy" (other than looks) etc., etc...Now, many times a writer might not be writing what they consider a "girly" or "bitchy" characterization but the sometimes narrow thinking of the mostly male audience will read those traits into a female character (even when they really aren't being written that way.

Many people think Batman is cool but if there were a lead female character (hero) written with those same Batman traits many fans wouldn't like her. Daredevil can have lots of different girlfriends and be shown to be sleeping with them but you can't do that with a female hero and have her be as popular. Tony Stark can be tough and demanding but if you play Ms Marvel (Carol Danvers) that way she'll come off as "bitchy" and "bossy" in many fans eyes. With female characters you often have to bland them down and always play it safe to make them likable to male readers. Hot, curvy, to the point butt kicker is fine. Average looking with everyday problems with a softer side...not so exciting.

So...the question isn't if the writer has the ablity to write great female characters. The question is does the mostly male audience truly wants them.

[mrjayberry]

Alex Dragon-You're right I did miss that point, I was distracted by an Aunt May comment:smile:

[Mladen]

Absolutely would agree with that sentiment ...

I don't know if its subconsciously, but look at the number of movies (of those which have a clear 'lead' character) which will feature a male lead character. Its not fair to single out comics on this topic, I think MOST forms of literature are still using the male as the predominant 'lead' character (movies, the majority of literary and pop novels, tv shows, etc)...

I've often heard it said that most writers only know how to write love interests (regardless of how 'independant' the female character is, she's usually a love interest) or 'mother' figures (this includes aunts, wise-old advice-giving ladies, etc), and rarely will you get anything else.

[rick]

The longest running female superhero (that immediately comes to my mind) is "Supergirl"; a female version of an existing superhero. Please tell me if there's anything older and/or longer running than this.



Just so you know, both Wonder Women and the Black Canary have been around longer then Supergirl, with both having made their initial apperance in the 1940's as oppossed to Supergirls introduction in the late 1950's.

[mgs]

I think Gilda has a very valid point that people seem to be skimming over. The fact that everyone is looking at comics from their own perspective. Comics appealing to older and younger females may be a smaller niche than ones most males are directed to, but that may be a gender thing as well as marketing ability.

I think the many successful comics involving female leads are not comics that the average male comic reader would want to create or enjoy. It also seems like many female creators, left to their own devices, tend to create books that are not ones widely recognized in the superhero community.

I think it's important and great that many female creators are getting involved in comic book making, but I feel that it is reported wrongly when, like this thread tends to suggest, that it's a failed venture for them, just because they are not more involved in the making of 'superhero' comics.

[Robo Ape]

I think Gilda has a very valid point that people seem to be skimming over. The fact that everyone is looking at comics from their own perspective. Comics appealing to older and younger females may be a smaller niche than ones most males are directed to, but that may be a gender thing as well as marketing ability.

I think the many successful comics involving female leads are not comics that the average male comic reader would want to create or enjoy. It also seems like many female creators, left to their own devices, tend to create books that are not ones widely recognized in the superhero community.

I think it's important and great that many female creators are getting involved in comic book making, but I feel that it is reported wrongly when, like this thread tends to suggest, that it's a failed venture for them, just because they are not more involved in the making of 'superhero' comics.

Did you have a look at that article I posted a link to further up the thread that talks about the issue of women working in comics?

[mgs]

Did you have a look at that article I posted a link to further up the thread that talks about the issue of women working in comics?

I just did. thanks! :) yes, it seems to address my concerns.

but, maybe I'm just used to stronger writing. while a good piece, it's not a strong one. an informative one for comic book newbies, but it doesn't have the kind of 'bite' that I would like. or maybe I just enjoy/am used to complaining more? ;)

[Alex Dragon]

I think Gilda has a very valid point that people seem to be skimming over. The fact that everyone is looking at comics from their own perspective. Comics appealing to older and younger females may be a smaller niche than ones most males are directed to, but that may be a gender thing as well as marketing ability.

I think the many successful comics involving female leads are not comics that the average male comic reader would want to create or enjoy. It also seems like many female creators, left to their own devices, tend to create books that are not ones widely recognized in the superhero community.

I think it's important and great that many female creators are getting involved in comic book making, but I feel that it is reported wrongly when, like this thread tends to suggest, that it's a failed venture for them, just because they are not more involved in the making of 'superhero' comics.

She made a vaild point but when you're talking actual sales it's easier track sales of the most popular stuff (superheroes). There are probabaly lots of well written indy titles out there with female leads but those books usually have such small print runs, come out so sparactically, aren't as easily available and are aimed at such a niche audience it's hard to include them and judge them fairly.

I don't know if that many women have any real interest in writing superhero stuff. That's just not typically where most women's interests lie. Unfortunately, in the comicbook market as a whole if you aren't working for the big two or doing superhero stuff it's really hard to get noticed. The book/novel world is a whole different animal but that's because books tend to draw a much bigger and broader audience. If you don't appeal to the 20 to 40 year old male demographic that's fine because there are plenty of female readers out there to support the work.

[Alex Dragon]

Alex Dragon-You're right I did miss that point, I was distracted by an Aunt May comment:smile:

My long-winded ramblings don't help much either.....

[Robo Ape]

I just did. thanks! :) yes, it seems to address my concerns.

but, maybe I'm just used to stronger writing. while a good piece, it's not a strong one. an informative one for comic book newbies, but it doesn't have the kind of 'bite' that I would like. or maybe I just enjoy/am used to complaining more? ;)

How would you go about getting more women working in the comics industry?

Thinking about this I can see no easy way to do this, it's not like you could impose affirmative action/hiring on all the publishers.

[Captain Yesterday]

Just so you know, both Wonder Women and the Black Canary have been around longer then Supergirl, with both having made their initial apperance in the 1940's as oppossed to Supergirls introduction in the late 1950's.

I'm not sure how I could have forgotten this, I think at the time I was trying to type with one hand while propping up my tired sunken eyed face with the other.

The main problem with low sales on books featuring a female lead is one of perception. People seem to think that female lead characters somehow restrict storytelling, which I believe is untrue.

[Captain Yesterday]

Double Post...dang

[GHalecki]

I can think of two books out there starring female charachters that I want to read about.

She-Hulk is a very compelling, multi dimensional charachter. She also happens to be written by a very talented writer who is particularly good at writing females.
His run on Supergirl was also very good.


Ms Marvel is a really interesting charachter as well, but the book has really stunk mostly since the beginning of the series. Mostly because every time they try to establish some momentum for the charachter, and really define her outside of the supporting/ensamble role that she was always in, the book gets derailed by crossover hell, and it sets the story and the charachter back months.

[Robo Ape]

I can think of two books out there starring female charachters that I want to read about.

She-Hulk is a very compelling, multi dimensional charachter. She also happens to be written by a very talented writer who is particularly good at writing females.
His run on Supergirl was also very good.


Ms Marvel is a really interesting charachter as well, but the book has really stunk mostly since the beginning of the series. Mostly because every time they try to establish some momentum for the charachter, and really define her outside of the supporting/ensamble role that she was always in, the book gets derailed by crossover hell, and it sets the story and the charachter back months.

Totally agree with most of what you say. As I see it they are two strong characters, one who has been well served by her writer and one that has been rather failed by her writer. I agree the crossover business has really set back any character development even more in the Ms Marvel title.

[x_goalkeeper]

I think the answer to the question is mostly "true". I prefer comics with good female characters myself though.

[PCPaperbacks]

I have enjoyed Witchblade. I jumped on reading the comic when Marz started writting it and since then, I have collected it back to issue #1.

But I understand the bias because of the male dominated comic buyer usually doesn't purchase woman lead comics... not that there aren't good comics with women in them, it's just that they're not as main stream because the big companies don't make as much money off these titles. I like Love & Rockets (women play major roles).

Top Cow has had more woman led comics per their catalog then most companies... but then Micheal Turner was drawing them! My work bans viewing Top Cow website due to the sexual nature of the characters.

But I due read mainly male based comics.... Spidey, Batman, Hellblazer, Iron Man, Darkness, etc...

[stelok]

I just wondered do people think that comics, especially superhero ones, sell less well if the lead is female?

Or is their no difference if the title has a male or female lead character?
Romance and magical girl comics with female lead characters sell better than super-hero comics with female lead characters.

That is why Sailor Moon, Card Captor Sakura, Fushigi Yugi (Mysterious Play), Magic Knight Rayearth, etc are very popular in Japan.

[Robo Ape]

It seems judging by the fate of Catwoman, She Hulk & BoP that DC & Marvel certainly believe the statement of this thread to be true!

[MNM]

Well in terms of Catwoman and Birds of Prey at least (off the top of my head I cant remember She-Hulks numbers), it isnt that DC believes this statement to be true, its that the series do/did actually sell very poorly.

[MuhollandDriver]

When it comes to the X-Men the women tend to be more interesting and 3 dimensional. The X-Men probably has more female women readers than the typical Marvel book because of that. That's why the X-books have been such strong sellers for so long. They have a bit more of a broader audience.

Very true.

Currently....the X-Men is very alpha male dominated.....and it isn't half as interesting as it used to be.

[Shellhead]

The longest running female superhero (that immediately comes to my mind) is "Supergirl"; a female version of an existing superhero. Please tell me if there's anything older and/or longer running than this.

I had a hunch that Mary Marvel has been around longer than Supergirl, but I was still surprised when I checked Wikipedia.

Wonder Woman first appeared in 1941 (no surprise there)
Mary Marvel first appeared in 1942
Supergirl first appeared in 1958

Patsy Walker (who later became Hellcat) first appeared in 1944!!!

[Kid Kamikaze10]

What about the original Phantom Lady?

[Shellhead]

What about the original Phantom Lady?

Yeah, I'd do her.

Wait, what was the question?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Yeah, I'd do her.

Wait, what was the question?

She was made around 1941.


And seconded if she was real...

[C-Cool]

Yeah, I'd do her.

Wait, what was the question?

I just fell off my chair laughing at this response...

Now I can't concentrate on my work.

My response to this thread: Give it time... this may change one day...

Wait... this is comics, right?

Then give it twice as much time. I don't know enough about the comic book crowd, but I think adjustment, adaptation, and evolution is a HUGE problem with the whole industry today.

[stealthwise]

I just fell off my chair laughing at this response...

Now I can't concentrate on my work.

My response to this thread: Give it time... this may change one day...

Wait... this is comics, right?

Then give it twice as much time. I don't know enough about the comic book crowd, but I think adjustment, adaptation, and evolution is a HUGE problem with the whole industry today.

Evolution is predicated upon reproduction...

oh wait, you were talking about the books themselves, weren't you?

[Henker]

The reasons are complex. The audience for American superheroes is predominantly males from 15-40, and boys are more likely to buy adventure stories (or fiction in general) with male protagonists than with female leads (the same is not true of girls, who tend to be more gender neutral in choice of protagonists; I'll see if I can find the research, but it consistently shows that boys strongly favor stories about boys, while girls are more likely to differentiate based on type of story).
I find this interesting, because studies have shown that the opposite is true for the MMORPG genre. Females overwhelmingly play female characters, while males are more likely to play both male and female ones.

[Binker]

Well, we do have a Wonder Woman DTV in March

[crazyredlady]

ok, now I'm worried. The lead I'm working on for this project I'm working on (alright, obsessing over:wink: ) is a female, but she's half-dragon (there's a pic on my thread in the Writer/Artist showcase). If she's got a good back story, would that make her more interesting and therefore a strong character or is it boring to hear about hero's personal problems?

[GRANT!]

Aliens is a fluke, but not because of that. It's a fluke because it's one of the few female-headlined action movies that's any good.

The first two Aliens are closer to the movie Halloween where the female lead isn't really the main attraction but the monster itself. Also Weaver ending up being the lead character was sort of a surprise in the first one. I don't even think she was featured that much in the marketing other then a member of the ensemble cast. One could assume Tom Skerritt was going to be the hero of that one.

I don't remember exactly how Aliens was marketed. I think we saw more of the Aliens in the ads and there was that macho space marine vibe too.

[newscott]

The truth is fairly simple but no one wants to admit it because everyone's trying to act all PC and above that sort of thing. Basically, the majority of comic buyers and movie goers are male. For various reasons most guys don't like or feel comfortable with a female hero carrying the story. Not all guys have that mindset but enough of them do to keep those books/movies from being big hits in most cases.


I completely disagree with this statement.

I believe the root lies withing Bill Jemas' comment from a few years ago:

"Bad Girls for fan boys, sometimes I call them date books. We have quite a few male readers who live in the basement of their parent's house in Queens. For them, an evening with Elektra is as good as it gets. Tell you what though, the Marvel Universe has always had female characters front and center, and we have always had a big female following for the comics, for the X-Men TV show, and now for the movie."

http://www.sequentialtart.com/archive/feb01/13quest_0201.shtml


As long as companies push creators to do books staring female characters as "date books", then I will have no interest in reading them.

The Jemas era is long gone, but that legacy remains. She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Power Girl. It's not that I'm not interested in reading female characters, it's that I'm not interested in reading cheesecake comics.

[Libaax]

Why must every male comics fan live in the basement of his parents,jacking off.....


I dont think the problem female leads have in superhero is cause of the readers only. Its the publishers too. They are in fear of not selling.

[newscott]

The first two Aliens are closer to the movie Halloween where the female lead isn't really the main attraction but the monster itself. Also Weaver ending up being the lead character was sort of a surprise in the first one. I don't even think she was featured that much in the marketing other then a member of the ensemble cast. One could assume Tom Skerritt was going to be the hero of that one.

I don't remember exactly how Aliens was marketed. I think we saw more of the Aliens in the ads and there was that macho space marine vibe too.

But the impact it made wasn't over the monster, but rather how awesome Ellen Ripley was. Come on, everyone can get behind the great moment when she walks out in the power-loader and shouts "Get away from her, you B***H!"