Hey, Kids! Here's a page from She-Hulk 30!

[Michael P]

Actually, you'll probably want to keep the kids away from this one:

http://peterdavid.malibulist.com/archives/006150.html

[Dr. Chaos]

My comments from the MAX thread:

Certainly not what I was expecting that cover to lead to but hey, speaking as someone who really didn't want to see bad blood between Herc & Jen (assuming she doesn't kick his ass after the pillow talk), this is actually kind of a nice surprise.

Best superhero hero team up ever.
Who knows though, Maybe it's Jazinda that gets laid.

With all the joking that has been going on about skrulls the last several months, I can't tell when anybody is joking or not anymore.

[DeadXMan]

Alpha Jen Is Back, Joy!

[Dr. Chaos]

Alpha Jen Is Back, Joy!
Dan Slott is my favorite She-Hulk writer and he probably will be for a very long time but that was kind of a nice lil one off story for a very specific purpose.

Hopefully PAD leaves it alone, though I'm not discounting that possibility.

[Peter David]

I'll flatten this right now:

It's not Alpha Jen. it's not Jazinda. It's not a hoax, a dream or an imaginary tale. That's the 616 Jen and the 616 Hercules.

PAD

[HouseSolo]

I'm just hoping this doesn't have an effect on the Incredible Herc book, because I have no interest in reading She Hulk to keep up on Herc.

[DeadXMan]

I'll flatten this right now:

It's not Alpha Jen. it's not Jazinda. It's not a hoax, a dream or an imaginary tale. That's the 616 Jen and the 616 Hercules.

PAD

Then where Cho?
OH Kirby, No! They Crushed him when the flor gave way!:wink:

[DeadXMan]

Freaking lag

[Dr. Chaos]

Wait, are you saying Cho should be in the same room when they're having sex?

I didn't know you were into that sort of thing, Deadxman.. :wink:

[HouseSolo]

Wait, are you saying Cho should be in the same room when they're having sex?

I didn't know you were into that sort of thing, Deadxman.. :wink:

Someone's gotta hold the camera. :wink:

[Mark_S]

I'll flatten this right now:

It's not Alpha Jen. it's not Jazinda. It's not a hoax, a dream or an imaginary tale. That's the 616 Jen and the 616 Hercules.

PAD

What if it is Jazinda taking the form of Hercules?

Mark_S

[Dr. Chaos]

What if it is Jazinda taking the form of Hercules?

Mark_S
You just blew my mind.

[Tobias Drake]

What if it is Jazinda taking the form of Hercules?

Mark_S

The subtext is there! I swear the subtext is there! I'm not crazy! I'm not!

It totally wouldn't be the first time a Skrull came to Earth to stay and participate in a homosexual relationship. It's, like, their national pastime.

[Mark_S]

The subtext is there! I swear the subtext is there! I'm not crazy! I'm not!

It totally wouldn't be the first time a Skrull came to Earth to stay and participate in a homosexual relationship. It's, like, their national pastime.

When you can be another race, and either sex of that race, how do you define what is and is not hetero/homo/lesbian?

Mark_S

[Tobias Drake]

When you can be another race, and either sex of that race, how do you define what is and is not hetero/homo/lesbian?

Mark_S

I've wondered this about Xavin. In the latest Runaways when they were discussing Xavin's "real" gender, I cracked up from the absurdity.

Really, the only real conditioner is what form they choose to take. That's the only characteristic that could be considered "defining" and it is subject to change at a moment's whim. But that kinda ruins the joke.

[LungerTony]

Pimpin' ain't easy.

[Peter David]

What if it is Jazinda taking the form of Hercules?

Mark_S

What part of "that's the 616 Hercules" was unclear?

PAD

[Tobias Drake]

What part of "that's the 616 Hercules" was unclear?

PAD

The word "the". We never could agree one one proper definition of it.

[Nyssane]

That's hot, I always wondered why when she was doing Constrictor's lawsuit against Hercules she never shacked up with him. I would'a.

[matthewaos]

Awesome! I was never intersted in She - Hulk, but this book is nice, thanks to David.

[Emperor Time]

Someone's gotta hold the camera. :wink:

Then he will sell the tape for alot of cash. :biggrin:

[Dermie]

When you can be another race, and either sex of that race, how do you define what is and is not hetero/homo/lesbian?


Well, the one point that is sometimes forgotten is that the Skrulls do have a "natural" state. They are born being one gender or the other. They have the ability to alter their form to *appear* as something else, but that doesn't change what they are in their original, natural form.
This was something that was displayed back in the 80s, when the Skrulls temporarily lost their shape-shifting powers. A male Skrull was trapped in a female form, and his girlfriend rejected him because of it. He also was not too pleased to be getting romantic interest from males around him.

Although Xavin casually dismissed changing gender as being like "changing hair colour", I wonder if he'd have been so eager about it if it had been Chase he'd been pre-engaged to, and was changing to a female form in order to appeal to a man? I mean, if Xavin is a heterosexual male and he changes into a female form to have sex with a lesbian, he still gets to have sex with a woman--so from his internal point of view, its still hetero.

Of course, more recent issues have suggested that female may be Xavin's "true" state...just like a transgendered human, who is born to a body of one gender, but knows that their "soul" or identity is really the opposite gender. An interesting twist...and with shapeshifting powers that would be an easier situation to cope with than as a human, requiring surgery.

[Tobias Drake]

Well, the one point that is sometimes forgotten is that the Skrulls do have a "natural" state. They are born being one gender or the other. They have the ability to alter their form to *appear* as something else, but that doesn't change what they are in their original, natural form.
This was something that was displayed back in the 80s, when the Skrulls temporarily lost their shape-shifting powers. A male Skrull was trapped in a female form, and his girlfriend rejected him because of it. He also was not too pleased to be getting romantic interest from males around him.

Although Xavin casually dismissed changing gender as being like "changing hair colour", I wonder if he'd have been so eager about it if it had been Chase he'd been pre-engaged to, and was changing to a female form in order to appeal to a man? I mean, if Xavin is a heterosexual male and he changes into a female form to have sex with a lesbian, he still gets to have sex with a woman--so from his internal point of view, its still hetero.

Of course, more recent issues have suggested that female may be Xavin's "true" state...just like a transgendered human, who is born to a body of one gender, but knows that their "soul" or identity is really the opposite gender. An interesting twist...and with shapeshifting powers that would be an easier situation to cope with than as a human, requiring surgery.

Or simply that Xavin has used the form so much that it's what he's most comfortable with, which while being fundamentally the same, is slightly different in that it implies that he was a male that grew accustomed to a female body, as opposed to being female "in spirit" from the very beginning. Which is what I think it is; Xavin has simply been using that specific body for so long that it's become something of a default form to him; not his natural state, but just what he falls back on.

[Mark_S]

That's hot, I always wondered why when she was doing Constrictor's lawsuit against Hercules she never shacked up with him. I would'a.

I don't think that would have been remotely ethical for Jen.

Mark_S

[Dr. Chaos]

Or simply that Xavin has used the form so much that it's what he's most comfortable with, which while being fundamentally the same, is slightly different in that it implies that he was a male that grew accustomed to a female body, as opposed to being female "in spirit" from the very beginning. Which is what I think it is; Xavin has simply been using that specific body for so long that it's become something of a default form to him; not his natural state, but just what he falls back on.That and considering how whipped Karolina has him right now, you could also come to the conclusion thats just what she's trained him to do. :wink:

She won't ever accept or love him as a man so that form is all he really has to fall back on.

[Tobias Drake]

That and considering how whipped Karolina has him right now, you could also come to the conclusion thats just what she's trained him to do. :wink:

She won't ever accept or love him as a man so that form is all he really has to fall back on.

Honestly, I am hoping to see that relationship come to a dramatic end (and for Karolina to move on to Nico, but that's another story). Simply because the idea of "I don't like you the way you are, so change" rubs me the wrong way.

[Camron Amaya]

I wonder if this involved the traditional Greek booty love.

*pervert*

[TheAmazingSpidey]

Ha...that picture is pretty awesome when you think about a page from Fantastic Four #286.

-------

Johnny: How's it goin' with you and my old college roomie, Shulkie? I thought you and Wyatt were a pretty hot item, but after that little number with Herc...

Jen: Self-defense, Johnny. Hercules has a tendency to put the make on anything that hasn't been [I]cremated. I had to come up with a little game playing to keep from getting serious about him.

Johnny: About Hercules? What are you, into older men or something?

Jen: Well, that's part of it. I mean, that's not some circus strong man who decided to call himself Hercules. He's the real Hercules, five thousand years old and all! Think about it, Johnny. This is a man whose name has become an adjective, a part of the language! That's a pretty tough act for a girl to walk away from.

And anyway...maybe you didn't notice, but he has eyes just like Tom Selleck.

-------

[DeadXMan]

Honestly, I am hoping to see that relationship come to a dramatic end (and for Karolina to move on to Nico, but that's another story). Simply because the idea of "I don't like you the way you are, so change" rubs me the wrong way.

I hate women that try to forces a guy to change into her vision of the ideal mate.

[Michael P]

That's hot, I always wondered why when she was doing Constrictor's lawsuit against Hercules she never shacked up with him. I would'a.

Because she was representing the plaintiff in a case where Herc was the defendant. She'd have been disbarred about 30 issues sooner.

[Dr. Chaos]

Honestly, I am hoping to see that relationship come to a dramatic end (and for Karolina to move on to Nico, but that's another story). Simply because the idea of "I don't like you the way you are, so change" rubs me the wrong way.
The fact that I don't like Xavin at all aside, I feel the same way.

That relationship has always felt like it was made to be broken.

[Kage Kisaragi]

*note drop She-Hulk*

[mikekerr3]

The word "the". We never could agree one one proper definition of it.

Just like the meaning of IS, those short words can be trickey:evilsmile:

[mikekerr3]

I wonder if this involved the traditional Greek booty love.

*pervert*

Being traditional in the ancient Greek way would involve Cho. No thanks:eek:

[DeadXMan]

Wait, are you saying Cho should be in the same room when they're having sex?

I didn't know you were into that sort of thing, Deadxman.. :wink:

no he was in the room below them when the raffters gave way.

:frown:

Oh well, there less interesting ways to go.

[Dr. Chaos]

*note drop She-Hulk*
Forgive me for asking but why?

I know why I did but still.

[matthewaos]

Are you guys on something? This book is nice, even if I'm not interesting in the character!

[Kage Kisaragi]

Forgive me for asking but why?

I know why I did but still.

Because of the idea of She-Hulk and Herc knocking boots appalls me. I know they've had their encounters in the past (though I don't think it evolved sex though I could be mistaken, I know there was a lot of tension there and I think she did find him attractive but really disliked him after he revealed he was a sexist macho brute.) Herc really couldn't have changed all that much since then considering he didn't really come back into any sort of lime light until WWH, and now in his series. It again brings up issues in the form of "Damn, just what are Jens priorities!?" and how is't that the window into comics always seems to focus in just when characters have finished or are about to have sex? Is the narrative ability to say that a character has slept with another character recently in some form of way impossible nowadays without showing it?

Now wonder Jen needs bounty hunting money, she has to buy new beds every few issues I suppose.

[agrich]

and how is't that the window into comics always seems to focus in just when characters have finished or are about to have sex?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

There needs to be more focus on the "during."

[Dr. Chaos]

Is it really that big of a deal that She-Hulk gets laid and has an active sex life?

As long as it's not somebody morally questionable like Juggernaut (which Dan retconned), I really don't see the problem.

[Dermie]

Because she was representing the plaintiff in a case where Herc was the defendant. She'd have been disbarred about 30 issues sooner.

Actually, Jen was not directly involved in the case at all. Mallory was defending Constrictor. Jen was occupied with Southpaw's case at the time, as well as dealing with her increased strength.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Is it really that big of a deal that She-Hulk gets laid and has an active sex life?

As long as it's not somebody morally questionable like Juggernaut (which Dan retconned), I really don't see the problem.

We knew she had a sex life long before she decided to knock up Herc though. Hell even if it was a question of sex, why not show a budding romance that eventually leads to sex. Why is everything so wham bam thank you ma'am in the Marvel Universe? I mean unless Pax is saying he's gonna develop a deep meaningful relationship between Jen and Herc in the next couple issues I fail to see why a one night stand even needs a splash page when it could be clearly explained in a simple narration between her and a good friend, or hell even Herc himself.

[Tobias Drake]

We knew she had a sex life long before she decided to knock up Herc though. Hell even if it was a question of sex, why not show a budding romance that eventually leads to sex. Why is everything so wham bam thank you ma'am in the Marvel Universe? I mean unless Pax is saying he's gonna develop a deep meaningful relationship between Jen and Herc in the next couple issues I fail to see why a one night stand even needs a splash page when it could be clearly explained in a simple narration between her and a good friend, or hell even Herc himself.

Because showing it is slightly less awkward than meeting each other in a hall and going, "Hey, remember that sex we had last night? Man, that was some good sex."?

[Kage Kisaragi]

Because showing it is slightly less awkward than meeting each other in a hall and going, "Hey, remember that sex we had last night? Man, that was some good sex."?

Either you forget that you had sex the night prior or you're just looking to word it in the worst possible way ever. How do you tell your friends about your sexual encounters? Do you pull out video footage or still cells of the act when you want to talk about it, or show that you did? Do you pull out the same things when your talking to your partner? No of course not, you say things along the lines. (when talking to your partner) "Last, night was incredible." or if it wasn't so great and your addressing your friends I'll use Herc as a example.

Herc to Cho

Cho: Where were you last night? I had just found a secret SHIELD facility and I figured we could raid it and see if the Hulk was being held there.
Herc: I was shacking up with She Hulk

(I just established Herc had sex with she hulk in a non awkward way, a way that didn't require a splash page of Jen and Herc destroying her bedroom, or his which ever the case maybe. No it isn't awkward that a guy to just come out and say that when question about there whereabouts.)

Cho: Woah? eh heh, so how was it? Jen quite the looker, and word has it shes pretty familiar when it comes to bedroom...
Herc: Please, the tales of her sexual expertise are clearly over exaggerated, she was more a keen to a large green lump. If not for the collapsing of the bed itself I would swear that there was no friction at all.

(There again I reforced the idea that Jen and Herc had sex, but again I'm actually telling more of a story than a splash page of two nearly naked bodies.)

Cho: Hah, someone call the Daily Bugle, I think we got a new headline "She-Ain't all that!"
Herc: Indeed.

[Peter David]

. It again brings up issues in the form of "Damn, just what are Jens priorities!?"

Well, there is a lengthy discussion between She-Hulk and Jaz about the way that sexually active women are perceived in society as opposed to sexually active men that occurs in the upcoming issue, and in the Herc issue, Jen has a lengthy internal monologue in which she ponders precisely what her priorities are, and why she slept with Hercules.

None of which you'll ever see because you're dropping the book. So you'll be stuck with questions and no answers. Ah well.

PAD

[Peter David]

We knew she had a sex life long before she decided to knock up Herc though. Hell even if it was a question of sex, why not show a budding romance that eventually leads to sex. Why is everything so wham bam thank you ma'am in the Marvel Universe? I mean unless Pax is saying he's gonna develop a deep meaningful relationship between Jen and Herc in the next couple issues I fail to see why a one night stand even needs a splash page when it could be clearly explained in a simple narration between her and a good friend, or hell even Herc himself.

Considering that She-Hulk and Herc have had a seriously flirtatious relationship going back nearly two decades of real time, I have no clue what you're going on about. Nor do I know who Pax is, aside from the Latin word for "peace." And as for what you fail to see, again, since you're not going to read the book, you will fail to see any of the answers to your questions.

PAD

[Peter David]

No of course not, you say things along the lines. (when talking to your partner) "Last, night was incredible." or if it wasn't so great and your addressing your friends

Okay: Storytelling 101.

Show. Don't tell.

Look, I'm always saying that people view stories through their own prisms, and I think that's what you're doing here. You clearly have some hang-ups about sex, and that's fine. You have plenty of company. But you're now putting yourself out on a limb and sawing it off behind you if you seriously advocate that, particularly in a visual medium such as comics, having people discussing an assignation after the fact and never seeing any representation of it is preferable to what we're depicting in She-Hulk #30.

PAD

[Kutulu]

Okay: Storytelling 101.

Show. Don't tell.

Look, I'm always saying that people view stories through their own prisms, and I think that's what you're doing here. You clearly have some hang-ups about sex, and that's fine. You have plenty of company. But you're now putting yourself out on a limb and sawing it off behind you if you seriously advocate that, particularly in a visual medium such as comics, having people discussing an assignation after the fact and never seeing any representation of it is preferable to what we're depicting in She-Hulk #30.

PAD

Well stated, just to let you know I personally love your stories and writing. Like you said, some people have hangups about sex and it carries over into other things they do, like when they read comics. They need to grow up and realize that sex is natural and is the reason life exists, and gods would hardly be any different - heck the Greek pantheon in particular was known for it's many vices that came along with it's power.

Someone like She-Hulk probably can't really "do the deed" with many men in the first place, as she'd crush an ordinary man like jello during the act of lovemaking. With someone like Herc she could go nuts (no pun intended) without having to worry about killing someone.

[Kutulu]

Either you forget that you had sex the night prior or you're just looking to word it in the worst possible way ever. How do you tell your friends about your sexual encounters? Do you pull out video footage or still cells of the act when you want to talk about it, or show that you did? Do you pull out the same things when your talking to your partner? No of course not, you say things along the lines. (when talking to your partner) "Last, night was incredible." or if it wasn't so great and your addressing your friends I'll use Herc as a example.

Herc to Cho

Cho: Where were you last night? I had just found a secret SHIELD facility and I figured we could raid it and see if the Hulk was being held there.
Herc: I was shacking up with She Hulk

(I just established Herc had sex with she hulk in a non awkward way, a way that didn't require a splash page of Jen and Herc destroying her bedroom, or his which ever the case maybe. No it isn't awkward that a guy to just come out and say that when question about there whereabouts.)

Cho: Woah? eh heh, so how was it? Jen quite the looker, and word has it shes pretty familiar when it comes to bedroom...
Herc: Please, the tales of her sexual expertise are clearly over exaggerated, she was more a keen to a large green lump. If not for the collapsing of the bed itself I would swear that there was no friction at all.

(There again I reforced the idea that Jen and Herc had sex, but again I'm actually telling more of a story than a splash page of two nearly naked bodies.)

Cho: Hah, someone call the Daily Bugle, I think we got a new headline "She-Ain't all that!"
Herc: Indeed.

Your version of the story sounds incredibly boring; why write up several pages to describe what could be shown in one page?

[agrich]

Your version of the story sounds incredibly boring; why write up several pages to describe what could be shown in one page?

Apparently it's important to protect innocent eyes from witnessing the horrors of a splash page of two nearly naked bodies. Better to have racy locker room dialogue about it between Hercules and Cho, since kids can't read.

[Tobias Drake]

Well, there is a lengthy discussion between She-Hulk and Jaz about the way that sexually active women are perceived in society as opposed to sexually active men that occurs in the upcoming issue, and in the Herc issue, Jen has a lengthy internal monologue in which she ponders precisely what her priorities are, and why she slept with Hercules.

None of which you'll ever see because you're dropping the book. So you'll be stuck with questions and no answers. Ah well.

PAD

She also had a similar conversation with Tony Stark.

[Kutulu]

Apparently it's important to protect innocent eyes from witnessing the horrors of a splash page of two nearly naked bodies.

ROFL :biggrin:

[Kage Kisaragi]

Well, there is a lengthy discussion between She-Hulk and Jaz about the way that sexually active women are perceived in society as opposed to sexually active men that occurs in the upcoming issue, and in the Herc issue, Jen has a lengthy internal monologue in which she ponders precisely what her priorities are, and why she slept with Hercules.

None of which you'll ever see because you're dropping the book. So you'll be stuck with questions and no answers. Ah well.

PAD

Well, gee thanks for breaking that down for me though I now question why you did it if not to keep a reader reading. :tongue:

As far as other comments go..
Let's see I think I can break down the last 4 or 5 post by simply paraphrasing.

Me saying "you could write a funny couple of panels of dialog that fill half a page."
Someone else saying and someone else laughing in agreement. "I'd rather see a implied sex scene."

[agrich]

Me saying "you could write a funny couple of panels of dialog that fill half a page."
Someone else saying and someone else laughing in agreement. "I'd rather see a implied sex scene."

Basically I'm kind of curious as to why you believe that racy sex talk is somehow better than a picture that indicates a couple of consenting adults had sex. Why do you think your version is better?

[Kage Kisaragi]

Basically I'm kind of curious as to why you believe that racy sex talk is somehow better than a picture that indicates a couple of consenting adults had sex. Why do you think your version is better?

I don't recall saying anything about which storytelling method being hotter.
I do however recall the premise of me saying "what the hell ever happen to actual narrative story telling?!" Nor do I remember saying anything about which audience comics should be catered to. (that means child or adult.)

[agrich]

I don't recall saying anything about which storytelling method being hotter.
I do however recall the premise of me saying "what the hell ever happen to actual narrative story telling?!" Nor do I remember saying anything about which audience comics should be catered to. (that means child or adult.)

I didn't say you said hotter, I said you said better. As in, it would be better to indicate Hercules and Jen had sex by him talking about it rather than showing the aftermath. And I asked why that's better.

Narrative storytelling is great, as is showing rather than telling in a visual medium. Using your argument, I could ask, "If Hercules fights a dragon, why have a page that shows Hercules standing over the beaten dragon, when we can instead have him sitting at a table with Cho saying 'Verily, I then smited the dragon with a blow from my mighty fist.'?"

[Nyssane]

Well, gee thanks for breaking that down for me though I now question why you did it if not to keep a reader reading. :tongue:

Or maybe since he knows you're not going to read it, he's clueing you in so you don't keep talkin' out your behind. :tongue:

And mee-ow, PAD! You take no prisoners, I love it!

[Kage Kisaragi]

I didn't say you said hotter, I said you said better. As in, it would be better to indicate Hercules and Jen had sex by him talking about it rather than showing the aftermath. And I asked why that's better.

Narrative storytelling is great, as is showing rather than telling in a visual medium. Using your argument, I could ask, "If Hercules fights a dragon, why have a page that shows Hercules standing over the beaten dragon, when we can instead have him sitting at a table with Cho saying 'Verily, I then smited the dragon with a blow from my mighty fist.'?"

Two distinctive differences here,

Herc Fighting a Dragon something that SHOULD be showin in a visual medium such as comics.

a Splash Page of two people lying together!? That's not a visual stimulation of the action that is currently happing. How is that relative to a visual medium such as comics?

Two people performing the act of sex and a splash page of the aftermath is totally relevant to a visual medium. (however since I'm assuming the comic code would not allow the later you'd need to circumvent it and find another way of depicting the act. The easiest method is the splash page of the aftermath, however that is totally boring. I'd much rather be entertained a little more, so the only other way I can think of achieving this is to maybe dialog some scenes in which the topic of it comes up and its addressed in either a serious of humorous (I like humor more in my comics.) manner.

[Kutulu]

Two distinctive differences here,

Herc Fighting a Dragon something that SHOULD be showin in a visual medium such as comics.

a Splash Page of two people lying together!? That's not a visual stimulation of the action that is currently happing. How is that relative to a visual medium such as comics?

Two people performing the act of sex and a splash page of the aftermath is totally relevant to a visual medium. (however since I'm assuming the comic code would not allow the later you'd need to circumvent it and find another way of depicting the act. The easiest method is the splash page of the aftermath, however that is totally boring. I'd much rather be entertained a little more, so the only other way I can think of achieving this is to maybe dialog some scenes in which the topic of it comes up and its addressed in either a serious of humorous (I like humor more in my comics.) manner.

First off - this is a comic book. The stories are told in a visual manner. I would rather see a page or two of what's happening being shown than read a page or two of dialogue saying what happened.

[Kage Kisaragi]

First off - this is a comic book. The stories are told in a visual manner. I would rather see a page or two of what's happening being shown than read a page or two of dialogue saying what happened.

And either you totally missed my point or your just looking to further a futile argument, either way your not adding anything to either side. Your just bashing me for my point of view.

[Kutulu]

And either you totally missed my point or your just looking to further a futile argument, either way your not adding anything to either side. Your just bashing me for my point of view.

I saw your point just fine, it's just that your point is wrong.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I'll even go the extra step a give a example of the difference between what I've been shown and what I would normal expect.

In Teen Titans: Life and Death, there is a couple of scenes where Cass and Conner are out and about, with Conner showing Cass around Kansas. At some point he shows her that little loft up in the barn where he has a telescope, blah blah blah, they have a moment and then they kiss. On the very next page and this is clincher here, instead of a splash page of the aftermath, we see in the silhouette them still embracing in a passionate kiss, then the next panel has Conner removing his shirt, Cass is in the next removing hers, the panel after that with Conner moving in to grasp her and her falling back, and the last panel we are in the small position but we don't see either of them.. Our minds already make up the scene as it must be playing out now.. That is visual story telling that is essential to what is currently happening, its not a past tense. From that page alone I could in theory back track to what might have lead up to it, but a splash page doesn't allow for that.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I saw your point just fine, it's just that your point is wrong.

Then by all means professor enlighten me as to how a Splash Page moves a story along.

Because I seem to recall that such a page is usually used for 1.) a Introduction to a new scene/location. Or more commonly the first page of a book, if Jen and Herc lying in bed together is the first thing I see when I turn the cover of a new issue of She-Hulk, what am I suppose to assume? I mean theres usually no caption on those pages to explain what must have happen prior to this particular scene so what is going on?

[agrich]

Sometimes splash pages (and two-page spreads) are just used to showcase a nice piece of artwork.

Anyway, it seems like you're saying two different things here. The only reason I bothered posting in the first place was because your initial post implied that the page was in some way offensive or upsetting to you ("Note to self: Quit She-Hulk," or something similar).

If it's just a case of you wishing the hook-up had been presented narratively rather than visually, is that really something worth quitting a book over? Because one page was "boring" to you? If I quit every title I buy because of a page or two that's boring or that I wish had been presented differently, I wouldn't read any comics at all.

[Peter David]

Well stated, just to let you know I personally love your stories and writing. Like you said, some people have hangups about sex and it carries over into other things they do, like when they read comics. They need to grow up and realize that sex is natural and is the reason life exists, and gods would hardly be any different - heck the Greek pantheon in particular was known for it's many vices that came along with it's power.

Someone like She-Hulk probably can't really "do the deed" with many men in the first place, as she'd crush an ordinary man like jello during the act of lovemaking. With someone like Herc she could go nuts (no pun intended) without having to worry about killing someone.

Well, we all have our quirks and hangups. I'm just as likely to react to something in a way that would cause other people to wonder, "What's up with HIM?" because I have my own baggage.

And I tend to agree with you that She-Hulk would probably be lethal in the sack for anyone short of a Hercules type.

PAD

[Peter David]

Well, gee thanks for breaking that down for me though I now question why you did it if not to keep a reader reading. :tongue:

As far as other comments go..
Let's see I think I can break down the last 4 or 5 post by simply paraphrasing.

Me saying "you could write a funny couple of panels of dialog that fill half a page."
Someone else saying and someone else laughing in agreement. "I'd rather see a implied sex scene."

There's no single scene that anyone can write that is going to keep all people reading. A scene that will attract some people will turn off others, and one would have to be monumentally stupid to think that a story can be all things to all people.

Your paraphrase doesn't really change anything. Show usually trumps tell, especially in a visual medium such as comics.

PAD

[Peter David]

Two distinctive differences here,

Herc Fighting a Dragon something that SHOULD be showin in a visual medium such as comics.

a Splash Page of two people lying together!? That's not a visual stimulation of the action that is currently happing. How is that relative to a visual medium such as comics?

Two people performing the act of sex and a splash page of the aftermath is totally relevant to a visual medium. (however since I'm assuming the comic code would not allow the later you'd need to circumvent it and find another way of depicting the act. The easiest method is the splash page of the aftermath, however that is totally boring. I'd much rather be entertained a little more, so the only other way I can think of achieving this is to maybe dialog some scenes in which the topic of it comes up and its addressed in either a serious of humorous (I like humor more in my comics.) manner.

Now you're just into a bizarre area. You're asserting that there is no point in showing two people after they've made love. Most PG films show the events leading up to, and subsequent to, the actual act. Are all of those pointless?

If it's of any use to you, there is actually caption narrative on the first page, which begins with She-Hulk thinking, "Okay...this didn't turn out remotely the way I expected it to."

And by the way, I think you were trying to say "visual simulation," not "stimulation." Your Freudian slip is showing.

PAD

[Peter David]

And either you totally missed my point or your just looking to further a futile argument, either way your not adding anything to either side. Your just bashing me for my point of view.

Well, first of all, no one is bashing you; they're questioning your thought process. Bashing you would be saying, "Were you asleep in third grade when they taught the difference between 'your' as in the possessive and 'you're' as the contraction of 'you are'?"

Second, this is a discussion board. So a discussion is a perfectly reasonable result.

PAD

[Peter David]

I'll even go the extra step a give a example of the difference between what I've been shown and what I would normal expect.

In Teen Titans: Life and Death, there is a couple of scenes where Cass and Conner are out and about, with Conner showing Cass around Kansas. At some point he shows her that little loft up in the barn where he has a telescope, blah blah blah, they have a moment and then they kiss. On the very next page and this is clincher here, instead of a splash page of the aftermath, we see in the silhouette them still embracing in a passionate kiss, then the next panel has Conner removing his shirt, Cass is in the next removing hers, the panel after that with Conner moving in to grasp her and her falling back, and the last panel we are in the small position but we don't see either of them.. Our minds already make up the scene as it must be playing out now.. That is visual story telling that is essential to what is currently happening, its not a past tense. From that page alone I could in theory back track to what might have lead up to it, but a splash page doesn't allow for that.

Apples and oranges.

In the sequence you're describing, it's part of an ongoing narrative. In the case of She-Hulk, it's a splash page designed to grab the reader's attention and pull them immediately into the story; a story which then spins back and shows us how we got to this particular point.

PAD

[Kage Kisaragi]

Sometimes splash pages (and two-page spreads) are just used to showcase a nice piece of artwork.

Anyway, it seems like you're saying two different things here. The only reason I bothered posting in the first place was because your initial post implied that the page was in some way offensive or upsetting to you ("Note to self: Quit She-Hulk," or something similar).

If it's just a case of you wishing the hook-up had been presented narratively rather than visually, is that really something worth quitting a book over? Because one page was "boring" to you? If I quit every title I buy because of a page or two that's boring or that I wish had been presented differently, I wouldn't read any comics at all.

I the pairing of Jen and Herc does bother (of all the people Herc, blarg!) but I made my feelings on that clear earlier I think, when I touched on why they didn't hook up sooner and again Herc? blargh! Do I dislike Hercules? Not entirely, he serves a purpose and fills a niche, Super strong idiot. At least thats how I always saw him. So your initial thought was kind of right, the act isn't offensive, though I'd rather not see Herc at all. The way in which it was depicted that was the second half of my gripe.

[Mark_S]

Well, there is a lengthy discussion between She-Hulk and Jaz about the way that sexually active women are perceived in society as opposed to sexually active men that occurs in the upcoming issue, and in the Herc issue, Jen has a lengthy internal monologue in which she ponders precisely what her priorities are, and why she slept with Hercules.

None of which you'll ever see because you're dropping the book. So you'll be stuck with questions and no answers. Ah well.

PAD

More and more I'm wishing for a She-Hulk/Bomb Queen cross over. Just for the conversations that they could have. :)

I do agree that Jen is examining her priorities and this is a good time to do so. After all in the current mu there are very few bright spots on the horizon. The superheroes have been mostly crushed into submission by the government, Camp Hammond might as well be called Camp Pain, SHIELD and the rest of the alphabet agencies are slicing their way through every civil and human right they find... What does a person do in that sort of hell on Earth? And if sex with a god helps you to relax and think things through even a little bit I don't see the harm. Though I'd be really curious to see what their kids would look like.

Mark_S

[Kutulu]

Well, we all have our quirks and hangups. I'm just as likely to react to something in a way that would cause other people to wonder, "What's up with HIM?" because I have my own baggage.

And I tend to agree with you that She-Hulk would probably be lethal in the sack for anyone short of a Hercules type.

PAD

I can just imagine her cracking a bowling ball in between those thighs. Ok time to get my head out of the gutter.

[Dr. Chaos]

Though I'd be really curious to see what their kids would look like
I'm guessing by age five they could crush a train like a sardine can.

[Tobias Drake]

I can just imagine her cracking a bowling ball in between those thighs. Ok time to get my head out of the gutter.

Death by snoo-snoo?

[Tyler]

Not a huge fan of splash pages but that's a gorgeous composition, I love the leg slid through the belt, the one boot still on, the matching contented smiles. I fail to see what some can consider offensive or demeaning in this.

I'd have thought this month's cover of Last Defenders or the upcoming Red Hulk cover both with Jen thrusting her ass out more likely to upset the prudish. But a powerful independent woman shown in relaxed post-coital embrace with a longtime friend and ally with whom there's been evidence of sexual chemistry in the past is met with indignation in some quarters? Personally I found this issue's cover showing them ready to kick seven bells out of each other more distressing.

M-Day, Civil War, World War Hulk, a Secret Invasion on the way - doesn't feel a fun time to be a hero. I say grab it where you can. Less snikt, more squelch.

[SUB-ZERO MKA]

What if it is Jazinda taking the form of Hercules?

Mark_S

Quess Jazinda has the hots for Jen :tongue:

[Lunal]

Thank you Peter David!

[Peter David]

Thank you Peter David!

You're welcome.

PAD