Loeb getting his Thor vs Hulk on?

[Dr. Chaos]

http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week004/HULKTHE_COV_VAR_COL.sm.jpg
Now let's be clear—This doesn't mean in any way that you should expect a Hulk vs. Thor fight or anything as this is obviously an unauthorized leak and I have no idea where you've heard any of this ridiculous stuff.

Oh, okay, you got me. FIGHT, FIGHT!!!
Going by the link, this seems to be a variant cover for a future issue of Hulk.

Full image here:

http://creative.myspace.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week004/HULKTHE_COV_VAR_COL.jpg

Source: Cup of Joe #4

[Thursaiz]

I will be very interested to see how the new Thor handles the new Hulk. Each is stronger, more durable and more powerful.

I say that Thor will spank him six ways from Sunday.

[Dr. Chaos]

I will be very interested to see how the new Thor handles the new Hulk. Each is stronger, more durable and more powerful.

I say that Thor will spank him six ways from Sunday.
If The Red Hulk is as much of an evolution that Loeb has been talking him up as and he beats Banner's ass back to that basement cell, I think facing this guy, Thor would have to do alot more than spanking.

That and I doubt Jeph is going to let The Hulk lose decesively this early in the series (if a confrontation does indeed happen and they don't just cross pathes or something awkward like that).

[ivesaidway2much]

I will be very interested to see how the new Thor handles the new Hulk. Each is stronger, more durable and more powerful.

I say that Thor will spank him six ways from Sunday.LOL. This is Jeph Loeb we're talking about. Thor could find the Infinity gauntlet and team up with Eternity and the Living Tribunal, and he would still lose to the Red, for lack of a better word, Hulk.

[XPac]

Red Hulk hasn't come off TOO uber so far. He beat Abomination, Tony, and She-Hulk... things a standard non-Loed written Hulk could have done any day of the week.

But Thor is definately the measuring stick. How well he handles Thor will definately determine just how powerful Loed is making this HUlk.

[Kevinroc]

Are we sure that is an issue of Loeb's Hulk? That might be a cover to JMS' Thor. The cover artist is Olivier Coipel, who is still the regular penciller on Thor (as well as a cover artist for Thor).

[Dr. Chaos]

Are we sure that is an issue of Loeb's Hulk? That might be a cover to JMS' Thor. The cover artist is Olivier Coipel, who is still the regular penciller on Thor (as well as a cover artist for Thor).
It's a variant cover so I'm going on the assumption that it's for Hulk.

[Camron Amaya]

Thor has the Odinforce.

How is this exactly debatable?

If Loeb is writing it tho all sense goes outt he window so I wouldn't be suprised whatever happens.

[Dr. Chaos]

You know, if Hulk and Thor, two of the most powerful beings in the history of Earth end up brawling with each other but not lifting a finger in Secret Invasion, I'm going to laugh.

[TheAmazingSpidey]

GO THOR!



Red Hulk ain't my Hulk.

[CyberCoyote]

Maybe this is how the book goes back to the Hulk (Green) so Herc can keep the other. It'd actually be kinda cool if there's something universally dangerous about Red Hulk and in the end Greenskin AND Thor have to team up to put the sucker in the ground.

[Emperor Time]

I agree that Thor is going to win this battle. :biggrin:

[Dr. Chaos]

I disagree and raise you one hell Hulk styled ass whupping by the hand of Loeb...verily and such. :wink:

[dabig2]

Haha, looking forward to this. Wonder what issue this cover is for.

LOL. This is Jeph Loeb we're talking about. Thor could find the Infinity gauntlet and team up with Eternity and the Living Tribunal, and he would still lose to the Red, for lack of a better word, Hulk.

fanboymode/ This the same Loeb that had Hulk getting punched out by Cap and spidey with bare fists and has him getting shotted by the Thing? Those pages are singed into my brain. The only way to remedy it is to see Hulk kicking blondie's ass. Loeb and McGuiness better deliver their promises of Hulk breaking reality and decking cosmics. I can almost taste the fanboy tears already! /fanboy mode

[Dr. Chaos]

The only way to remedy it is to see Hulk kicking blondie's ass. Loeb and McGuiness better deliver their promises of Hulk breaking reality and decking cosmics.
I'm still waiting for Red Man to punch out The Watcher as Loeb promised.

[XPac]

I'm sure both Hulk and Thor will walk away looking credible. I'm betting on a draw.

And it also in part depends on whose book this occurs in, and who writers it. The Odinforce is powerful... but we can't exactly sell the Loebforce short either.

[Dr. Chaos]

I'm sure both Hulk and Thor will walk away looking credible. I'm betting on a draw.
Believe it or not, I would not have a problem with that.

The idea of Hulk vs Thor is just plain awesome, it always has been, as long as it's not a tease and they actually get to thrown down a lil bit, I'm fine with however it ends.

Loeb has given the impression that over the course of the series, he wants to show how ridiculously powerful The Hulk really is, stacking him up against the new jacked up Abomination and the original Hulk, but with Thor, he could really drive that point home.

If you take away Hulk, There is no bigger standard in The Marvel Universe than The God of Thunder.

[CMBMOOL]

I pray Loeb isn't writing this, because while he is a great writer, he has little respect for the Status quo of the characters that he uses from time to time. :frown:

[ivesaidway2much]

fanboymode/ This the same Loeb that had Hulk getting punched out by Cap and spidey with bare fists and has him getting shotted by the Thing? Those pages are singed into my brain.... /fanboy modeThis just further proves my point. Cap was the main character of that Fallen Son issue, and Loeb had him punch out the Hulk. Jeph Loeb had Captain America PUNCH OUT the Hulk. What do you think Loeb is going to have his new pet character do to a guy he was already evenly matched against? If Loeb writes this, you have my condolences Thor fans.

[Haquim]

I hate Loeb but IIRC it wasn't him getting CAP and Spidey punch Hulk out, that was a flashback from the first time Spidey met Cap... So it's not ALL Loeb fault

That said I think his Hulk to be abysmal, a true let down after the great work Pak did.

[Dark Soul # 7]

It's a variant cover so I'm going on the assumption that it's for Hulk.Where does it say that it's a variant cover, and even if it is Thor has been having loads of variant covers as well.

Maybe it's a special one-shot thing.

Whatever it is I'm rooting for the thunder-god. Show that over-hyped dumbass Hulk what vikings are made of Thor!:cool:

[HouseSolo]

Normally I'd be rooting for The Hulk, but this big red bastard isn't The Hulk. We need to real Hulk back, damn it!

[LungerTony]

I'll be routing for Thor.
For those who haven't read his series at all...he's inherited OdinPower from his daddy. He is super Thor. No way he goes down to some retard red stepchild of Banner.

[Dr. Chaos]

If Hulk takes that hammer and ***** slaps Thor with it, I would love Loeb forever.

I really would.

(..assuming this takes place in that title and yes, I know how Mjolnir works)

[LungerTony]

As much as I am so-so for Red Hulk...yeah....if Hulk bitchslaps Thor with his own hammer.
That would be an amazing moment.

[GRANT!]

You know, if Hulk and Thor, two of the most powerful beings in the history of Earth end up brawling with each other but not lifting a finger in Secret Invasion, I'm going to laugh.

I think Bendis said Thor will be involved in Secret Invasion and may join a team. Not sure about Hulk.

[Tobias Drake]

I think Bendis said Thor will be involved in Secret Invasion and may join a team. Not sure about Hulk.

*crosses fingers for Mighty Avengers* It would be so funny seeing him having to try and get along with Stark after what went down between them before. The tension would be so thick, you could slice it with a pointed expression. No knife required.

[prodigy]

So let me get this straight....

We're already 2 issues into a book called "Hulk" and the star character is someone who is actually NOT the Hulk.

Not only that, but we don't even know who the feller is.

On top of that, you mean to say the story is going to KEEP being about him? And now this red joker gets to battle Thor? In a book named after someone else altogether?


Jesus Christ Loeb. You have balls, my enemy. You have balls.


This dude is trying to pull a Captain America here (where the book doesn't have it's title character in the series yet it remains about them anyway), and he's dropping the ball. Big time.

[Dr. Chaos]

I think Bendis said Thor will be involved in Secret Invasion and may join a team. Not sure about Hulk.
Was he talking about 70s Thor or the current one though?

Hulk not taking part is understandable.

With the stakes as high as they are, a planetwide invasion, I don't see how Thor could really leave things up to chance. Does JMS' Thor believe fighting battles like this aren't quite what he's supposed to be doing these days as a God?

And if Bendis put him on the Mighty Avengers with Sentry, that seems like crazy overkill.

[beetheb]

So let me get this straight....

We're already 2 issues into a book called "Hulk" and the star character is someone who is actually NOT the Hulk.

Not only that, but we don't even know who the feller is.

On top of that, you mean to say the story is going to KEEP being about him? And now this red joker gets to battle Thor? In a book named after someone else altogether?


Jesus Christ Loeb. You have balls, my enemy. You have balls.


This dude is trying to pull a Captain America here (where the book doesn't have it's title character in the series yet it remains about them anyway), and he's dropping the ball. Big time.You want my guess about exactly what's going down with the new Tomato-Hulk? Well here it is anyway...

McGuinness and Loeb, appealing to their inner fanboys (as many of us here do) wanted to see a Hulk capable of pretty much anything.
Cosmic-powered Hulk, for lack of a better term.
Well, unfortunately, that's not the Hulk's editorial mandate. At least, not the old salad-brain, Bruce Banner Hulk that we all know and love.

Solution? Make-a-Hulk. Use him for 12 (or so) issues, then throw him away. We get many awesome Hulkish fanboy moments, (like maybe Hulk kicking Thor's ass, for instance) yet Banner's continuity remains clean and, well, continuous.

And Thor fans can always say "Sure, Hulk won, but it was that ridiculous Loeb Hulk".

[Tobias Drake]

You want my guess about exactly what's going down with the new Tomato-Hulk? Well here it is anyway...

McGuinness and Loeb, appealing to their inner fanboys (as many of us here do) wanted to see a Hulk capable of pretty much anything.
Cosmic-powered Hulk, for lack of a better term.
Well, unfortunately, that's not the Hulk's editorial mandate. At least, not the old salad-brain, Bruce Banner Hulk that we all know and love.

Solution? Make-a-Hulk. Use him for 12 (or so) issues, then throw him away. We get many awesome Hulkish fanboy moments, (like maybe Hulk kicking Thor's ass, for instance) yet Banner's continuity remains clean and, well, continuous.

And Thor fans can always say "Sure, Hulk won, but it was that ridiculous Loeb Hulk".

And they can go places Banner can't. They can give you a psychotic, angry, monstrous Hulk who destroys everything in his path without regard for human life, leaving a trail of destruction and death in his wake, without having to damage Banner's appearance to his fans.

[worstblogever]

Thor has the Odinforce.

How is this exactly debatable?

If Loeb is writing it tho all sense goes outt he window so I wouldn't be suprised whatever happens.

Any chance it's not Thor, but a Skrull?

Given the current state of things... it's a possibility that all this hype will be for naught.

[worstblogever]

Solution? Make-a-Hulk. Use him for 12 (or so) issues, then throw him away. We get many awesome Hulkish fanboy moments, (like maybe Hulk kicking Thor's ass, for instance) yet Banner's continuity remains clean and, well, continuous.

And Thor fans can always say "Sure, Hulk won, but it was that ridiculous Loeb Hulk".

Your words are wise, sir.

[Dark Soul # 7]

You're all assuming that it will be Loeb writing this.

If it's not then Thor might very well kick R.Hulk's ass. So I'm hoping that's the case.

[Haquim]

You want my guess about exactly what's going down with the new Tomato-Hulk? Well here it is anyway...

McGuinness and Loeb, appealing to their inner fanboys (as many of us here do) wanted to see a Hulk capable of pretty much anything.
Cosmic-powered Hulk, for lack of a better term.
Well, unfortunately, that's not the Hulk's editorial mandate. At least, not the old salad-brain, Bruce Banner Hulk that we all know and love.

Solution? Make-a-Hulk. Use him for 12 (or so) issues, then throw him away. We get many awesome Hulkish fanboy moments, (like maybe Hulk kicking Thor's ass, for instance) yet Banner's continuity remains clean and, well, continuous.

And Thor fans can always say "Sure, Hulk won, but it was that ridiculous Loeb Hulk".

Problem is our old green skinned hulk already defeated Thor numerous times... So making the Red Hulk kick Thor's ass won't be THAT meaningful (unless you are a fan of Red H. of course...:tongue: )
From a logical PoV a Thor with the power of Odin would easyly defeat Hulk and probably the skrull invasion too (ok, they have gods... but those are being dealt with by Herc &... the Demogorge!!!:eek: ).
Knowing what's happening in thor right now I think Thor will be forced to raise from the odinsleep early, without the power of Odin. This will allow for a depowered thor to take part in SI and Hulk without being too much an overkill....

[Camron Amaya]

Any chance it's not Thor, but a Skrull?

Given the current state of things... it's a possibility that all this hype will be for naught.

No it would be impossible for it to be a skrull. For one no Skrull would inherit Odin's powers.

And 2nd JMS said clearly it is not a skrull.

[Camron Amaya]

Problem is our old green skinned hulk already defeated Thor numerous times... So making the Red Hulk kick Thor's ass won't be THAT meaningful (unless you are a fan of Red H. of course...:tongue: )
From a logical PoV a Thor with the power of Odin would easyly defeat Hulk and probably the skrull invasion too (ok, they have gods... but those are being dealt with by Herc &... the Demogorge!!!:eek: ).
Knowing what's happening in thor right now I think Thor will be forced to raise from the odinsleep early, without the power of Odin. This will allow for a depowered thor to take part in SI and Hulk without being too much an overkill....

thats kind of a lie.

[Haquim]

thats kind of a lie.

Mmmmh...

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulksmashes.html

Who's the liar?:biggrin:

Hulk 5-Thor 2

Hulk wins.

[Camron Amaya]

Mmmmh...

http://www.leaderslair.com/gammapeople/hulksmashes/hulksmashes.html

Who's the liar?:biggrin:

Hulk 5-Thor 2

Hulk wins.


lol @ a hulk site. we've seent hat like 5 times.

last time i checked a fight is won when the other guy is either dead or not fighting anymore aka ko'd.

not "well he has less bruzies so it seems he won at the point he left the battle like hulk always does".

and once again..all these fights nothing but physical brawls aka idiot thor.

plz

[DaeJi]

Solution? Make-a-Hulk. Use him for 12 (or so) issues, then throw him away. We get many awesome Hulkish fanboy moments, (like maybe Hulk kicking Thor's ass, for instance) yet Banner's continuity remains clean and, well, continuous.


And Thor fans suffer. Fanboy moments are a parasite in comics; Marvel Knight is where crap like that belongs. Thor is more powerful than the Hulk, and nothing we've seen of the Red Hulk is beyond Thor's power to handle. Plus, Thor has the Odin-Force. But if Thor should lose the Odin-Force and the Red Hulk really is a cosmic level Hulk, then I wouldn't mind seeing a real fight from this. But a logical fight that pays respect to the characters' abilities and power, and just an excuse to have X beat up Y.

[Haquim]

lol @ a hulk site. we've seent hat like 5 times.

last time i checked a fight is won when the other guy is either dead or not fighting anymore aka ko'd.

not "well he has less bruzies so it seems he won at the point he left the battle like hulk always does".

and once again..all these fights nothing but physical brawls aka idiot thor.

plz

For that matter I think the site forgets some other Hulk victories, like the one in the first heroes reborn...
If you want my unbiased (:rolleyes: ) opinion Hulk is clearly stonger than thor. After a while even if Thor uses his gridle, because Hulk has potential for infinite strength (btw remember the Maestro killed thor in his future...). Yet Thor has several other powers besides strength. If Thor wasn't the idiot he usually seems to be in comics he could probably find ways to beat hulk without going hth with him (not the wisest of choices given Hulk's strenght...:biggrin: ).
I agree that, IF Thor keeps the power of a Skyfather the fight should be NO CONTEST for Thor, yet I think he'll rise from the Odin sleep without the odinpower, so he'll be credible in Secret Invasion and in this tie-in.

[Camron Amaya]

For that matter I think the site forgets some other Hulk victories, like the one in the first heroes reborn...
If you want my unbiased (:rolleyes: ) opinion Hulk is clearly stonger than thor. After a while even if Thor uses his gridle, because Hulk has potential for infinite strength (btw remember the Maestro killed thor in his future...). Yet Thor has several other powers besides strength. If Thor wasn't the idiot he usually seems to be in comics he could probably find ways to beat hulk without going hth with him (not the wisest of choices given Hulk's strenght...:biggrin: ).
I agree that, IF Thor keeps the power of a Skyfather the fight should be NO CONTEST for Thor, yet I think he'll rise from the Odin sleep without the odinpower, so he'll be credible in Secret Invasion and in this tie-in.

Funny you should mention that since Meastro HIMSELF said they should've sent THOR to fight him, at least he could've matched his power. And it was clearly shown that Hulk was no match for Maestro. Maestro broke his neck the same way Thor did in a What If. But of course neither of those mean shit since they're alternate realities/timelines and Thor being dead with that one was simply required for the story to even work.

If classic Thor wanted to kill the Hulk or get rid of him he could at anytime with Mjolnir's powers. If anyone doesnt see that they're a bit delusional.

[Kutulu]

Funny you should mention that since Meastro HIMSELF said they should've sent THOR to fight him, at least he could've matched his power. And it was clearly shown that Hulk was no match for Maestro. Maestro broke his neck the same way Thor did in a What If. But of course neither of those mean shit since they're alternate realities/timelines and Thor being dead with that one was simply required for the story to even work.

If classic Thor wanted to kill the Hulk or get rid of him he could at anytime with Mjolnir's powers. If anyone doesnt see that they're a bit delusional.

So says the Thor fanboy. Fact of the matter is that Hulk and Thor have long been closely matched, with each having wins over the other. A powerup to either one should yield a larger margin of victory. Thor fanboys are so delusional sometimes.

[GRANT!]

Was he talking about 70s Thor or the current one though?

This was one of those Bendis Tapes podcasts. But he mentioned Thor and New Cap will play a role and join teams.

[Slyfer]

Thor Smash UGLY RED MONSTER.....



Seriously how can Thor lose ???


O ye of little Faith

[Dr. Chaos]

This was one of those Bendis Tapes podcasts. But he mentioned Thor and New Cap will play a role and join teams.
Mmmm...Bucky Joining the New Avengers..

*drools*

[worstblogever]

No it would be impossible for it to be a skrull. For one no Skrull would inherit Odin's powers.

And 2nd JMS said clearly it is not a skrull.

No no no... let me clarify, I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

The Thor we've been reading about is the real Thor, with the Odinforce.

But I'm saying that shot is a Skrull trying to simultaneously masquerade as Thor, and it tangles with Hulk.

[Kutulu]

No no no... let me clarify, I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

The Thor we've been reading about is the real Thor, with the Odinforce.

But I'm saying that shot is a Skrull trying to simultaneously masquerade as Thor, and it tangles with Hulk.

Thor is going to take a beating, that much is certain.

[beetheb]

And Thor fans suffer. Fanboy moments are a parasite in comics;Well, the worst thing about it is not only that Thor might have to Job to Rulk, but that in the end the "fanboy moments" will belong to a Hulk no one is invested in nor cares about.
Loeb's decompression of the story has caused the title to move so slowly that, three issues in, Red Hulk still has no discernable character to speak of. At the moment, he's just a big, growly Red monster.

Hate to say it, but at this point I'd probably be rooting for Thor. I'm enjoying his solo title astronomically more than Red Hulk's.

[Camron Amaya]

So says the Thor fanboy. Fact of the matter is that Hulk and Thor have long been closely matched, with each having wins over the other. A powerup to either one should yield a larger margin of victory. Thor fanboys are so delusional sometimes.

The fact that I'm a Thor fan doesnt make it less true. Why you think Thor never just ended up Godblasting or teleporting Hulk to some random place in the universe (black hole or something) like he does regular villains? Cuz Hulk is Hulk. Popular and iconic.

Have you ever seen him do anything against the hulk but fight phyiscly and maybe use lightning?

Exactly.

[ivesaidway2much]

The fact that I'm a Thor fan doesnt make it less true. Why you think Thor never just ended up Godblasting or teleporting Hulk to some random place in the universe (black hole or something) like he does regular villains? Cuz Hulk is Hulk. Popular and iconic.

Have you ever seen him do anything against the hulk but fight phyiscly and maybe use lightning?

Exactly.For the same reason the Earth wasn't destroyed the first time they fought or in any other subsequent battle. They've both been holding back since the beginning. Hulk can hold planets together with his bare hands; Thor has about a million magical powers. You do the math.

[Haquim]

The fact that I'm a Thor fan doesnt make it less true. Why you think Thor never just ended up Godblasting or teleporting Hulk to some random place in the universe (black hole or something) like he does regular villains? Cuz Hulk is Hulk. Popular and iconic.

Have you ever seen him do anything against the hulk but fight phyiscly and maybe use lightning?

Exactly.

In other words: you think Thor deserves to win even if he lost more than he won against the hulk. Since this is NOT the case and you think Thor should win, it's all the writers' fault because they do not make Thor win easyly...:biggrin:
Your's a great and unbiased logic...

Thor lost several times to the Hulk because in HtH fighting hulk has an edge over Thor and Thor has been usually portraied as someone who loves a good fight.
WWH Hulk, especially the final one (whose very footsteps were destroying the eastern coast...) would destroy a normal Thor.
Of course Thor with the Odinforce would win... but as I said before I doubt Thor will rise from the odinsleep with that much power... You'll see the "normal" version of thor getting pasted by Red Hulk (a creature no one besides Loeb likes...:frown: )

[IronStarks]

i think pretty much right now it only depends on who book the fight is in, i have a good feeling that its Loeb wanting to show how "omgbadass" red hulk is im afraid i can already see who would win :(

[Tobias Drake]

i think pretty much right now it only depends on who book the fight is in, i have a good feeling that its Loeb wanting to show how "omgbadass" red hulk is im afraid i can already see who would win :(

Yeah. Writers generally like to have whoever they're writing at the time come out on top of things. Spider-Man conquers Iron Man with webbing. Luke Cage smashes Wrecker. Everything about World War Hulk.

I was actually pleasantly surprised when DareDevil got smashed hard by two members of the Wrecking Crew, and had to escape because he was out of his league. Writers need to not be afraid to let their lead lose every once in a while. It builds character.

[Camron Amaya]

In other words: you think Thor deserves to win even if he lost more than he won against the hulk. Since this is NOT the case and you think Thor should win, it's all the writers' fault because they do not make Thor win easyly...:biggrin:
Your's a great and unbiased logic...

Thor lost several times to the Hulk because in HtH fighting hulk has an edge over Thor and Thor has been usually portraied as someone who loves a good fight.
WWH Hulk, especially the final one (whose very footsteps were destroying the eastern coast...) would destroy a normal Thor.
Of course Thor with the Odinforce would win... but as I said before I doubt Thor will rise from the odinsleep with that much power... You'll see the "normal" version of thor getting pasted by Red Hulk (a creature no one besides Loeb likes...:frown: )

Why do you think you saying "Thor should get beat" is any more credible then me saying "Hulk should get beat"? I mean what are you talking about here? Classic Thor would lose against WWH? Yea he probly would if he only fought fist to fist. Haven't we already said that? Or are you denying that all Thor fights handicap Thor and turn him into a moron? You're saying I'm biased like you're not. Even though I don't think I am, I'm just saying what makes sense lmao. A Blast that makes Galactus leave should put the Hulk down no problem. Or is Hulk knockin' out Galactus now too?

It's amazing how far you have to go to make them equal.

Silver Surfer, Sentry, Superman, etc... all of them..they should all just forget all their other powers so the Hulk can win or hold his own. Wtf? lol

I never said Hulk can't EVER win, I think they both have the chance to, but it's obvious who's more powerful.

And to the other guy...a Godblast wouldn't destroy Earth...he's not aiming it into the Earth lmao And he's used it on Earth before against the Juggernaut and it pushed him back.

[Pike]

For the same reason the Earth wasn't destroyed the first time they fought or in any other subsequent battle. They've both been holding back since the beginning. Hulk can hold planets together with his bare hands; Thor has about a million magical powers. You do the math.

Thor has such a vast number of powers though that he should beat the Hulk very easily. Long before the Hulk gets mad Thor can just godblast him, stop time or transpost him into the sun. If Thor used his head, he would beat the Hulk each and every time. That's not being a fanboy either, it's just stating the obvious.

[Dr. Chaos]

The more I think about it, looking at solicitations, the more I think this might end up being a variant cover for King sized Hulk #1.

The Story: HULK vs. SHE-HULK!
HULK vs. WENDIGO!
HULK vs. ???????????
JEPH LOEB! ART ADAMS! FRANK CHO! TOO many SUPERSTARS to fit into a puny REGULAR-SIZED issue!!!
We’re comin’ upside your head with a KING-SIZE spectacular with MORE smashing, bashing, trashing, and clashing than should be allowed by law!!! Three new tales that fill in the gaps of the best-selling HULK book, and set up NEW storylines! PLUS, classic tales including THE INCREDIBLE HULK 180 (the REAL 1st appearance of Wolverine!) and AVENGERS 83 (Lady Liberators, anyone?)! More? You want MORE!?!? How about a super-secret MYSTERY ARTIST…???
Mystery artist and opponent.

Thor and Oliver Coipel?

[ivesaidway2much]

Thor has such a vast number of powers though that he should beat the Hulk very easily. Long before the Hulk gets mad Thor can just godblast him, stop time or transpost him into the sun. If Thor used his head, he would beat the Hulk each and every time. That's not being a fanboy either, it's just stating the obvious.Ummm... The Hulk is a super genius. Thor is a drooling 2 year old in comparison. Why do you think even Thor's fans think he fights like an idiot? This emoticon :confused: describes Thor to a tee. But if he can remember their names and/or how to use them, a million magical powers is still a million magical powers.

The more I think about it, looking at solicitations, the more I think this might end up being a variant cover for King sized Hulk #1.


Mystery artist and opponent.

Thor and Oliver Coipel?Ugh. If it's definitely going to be written by Jeph Loeb, there goes any hope that we might actually see an even moderately entertaining story.

[Camron Amaya]

Ummm... The Hulk is a super genius. Thor is a drooling 2 year old in comparison. Why do you think even Thor's fans think he fights like an idiot?

None of us meant Thor is an idiot in general, we're saying when it comes to fighting the Hulk the writers make him fight stupid.

It was shown numerous times that he's very inteligent in alot of things, especialy the things he learned from Donald Blake in medecine. So unless the topic is the specific things Banner is expert on I wouldn't say Thor is much dumber then Hulk.

After Ragnarok and gaining all that wisdom, plucking his eyes out going through the same things Odin did, and ruling Asgard he's hardly an idiot.

[Pike]

Ummm... The Hulk is a super genius. Thor is a drooling 2 year old in comparison. Why do you think even Thor's fans think he fights like an idiot?

Do you even read Thor? He's never been portrayed as an idiot.

Why don't you post this fight in the rumbles board? Oh that's right, you're scared of that board.

[ivesaidway2much]

Do you even read Thor? He's never been portrayed as an idiot.If Thor is not an idiot, why doesn't he use his powers to beat the Hulk in seconds every time? Has he even done that once? I mean, according to you, it should be fairly easy for him. Right?

[Camron Amaya]

If Thor is not an idiot, why doesn't he use his powers to beat the Hulk in seconds every time? Has he even done that once? I mean, according to you, it should be fairly easy for him. Right?

Lol Maybe because the people writing know it won't be much of a fight? Thor isn't a real person he's at the mercy of whoever's writing. And their past battles weren't exactly all written by great writers. Your logic is amazing. "He has the powers to do so but he doesn't so he's the dumbest guy in the MU!". Even though he uses them against villains.

I don't even hate Hulk. I LIKE Hulk. But this is some dumb ish. Hulk is a genius but Thor the Lord of Asgard who went through the same thing odin did to get his wisdom ad knowledge...is an idiot.

[Pike]

If Thor is not an idiot, why doesn't he use his powers to beat the Hulk in seconds every time? Has he even done that once? I mean, according to you, it should be fairly easy for him. Right?

It's called PIS. Again, post this fight on the rumbles board and see what happens. Of course you won't because you know what will happen. This is your usual MO.

[ivesaidway2much]

Lol Maybe because the people writing know it won't be much of a fight? Thor isn't a real person he's at the mercy of whoever's writing. And their past battles weren't exactly all written by great writers. Your logic is amazing. "He has the powers to do so but he doesn't so he's the dumbest guy in the MU!". Even though he uses them against villains.

I don't even hate Hulk. I LIKE Hulk. But this is some dumb ish. Hulk is a genius but Thor the Lord of Asgard who went through the same thing odin did to get his wisdom ad knowledge...is an idiot.If the guy is portrayed as an idiot every single time he fights the Hulk, what am I supposed to think? How many times have they fought 6? 10? 15? Is Thor into S&M? Using your logic, I could claim that Savage Hulk is really smarter than Dr. Doom, Juggernaut is smarter than X-men, and Rhino is smarter than the Spider-man but they just haven't been handled by the appopriate writer, either.

[Haquim]

Why do you think you saying "Thor should get beat" is any more credible then me saying "Hulk should get beat"?

Erm... maybe because that's NOT what I'm saying?

I'm saying that Thor going hand to hand against the hulk would lose. As he did lots of times... That's merely stating a fact, btw.

I mean what are you talking about here? Classic Thor would lose against WWH? Yea he probly would if he only fought fist to fist. Haven't we already said that? Or are you denying that all Thor fights handicap Thor and turn him into a moron? You're saying I'm biased like you're not. Even though I don't think I am, I'm just saying what makes sense lmao. A Blast that makes Galactus leave should put the Hulk down no problem. Or is Hulk knockin' out Galactus now too?


On the first part we agree (alleluja! :biggrin: ).
On the second part: no I think you do not consider Thor likes to fight hand to hand and he's arrogant enough to believe he can defeat the hulk maching strenght for strenght. In this he's wrong and that's why he usually loses.
Btw Galactus is much more powerful than Thor... even a Thor powered by the Odin power. The same is true for any celestial. Odin himself, with the armor of the destroyer was outmatched by far by a single celestial.
Classic Thor is in the herald league when it comes to power (more or less like the surfer), he's not even remotely as powerful as galactus...

It's amazing how far you have to go to make them equal.

Silver Surfer, Sentry, Superman, etc... all of them..they should all just forget all their other powers so the Hulk can win or hold his own. Wtf? lol


If they fight in close combat yes they would lose, as Sentry and the Surfer prove.

I never said Hulk can't EVER win, I think they both have the chance to, but it's obvious who's more powerful.


Really it's not: Hulk CANNOT really be killed (he reforms even if reduced to atoms... look at what the Maestro did...). A godblast won't be enough to kill or incapacitate him either, it would only make him angrier and thus stronger. Sending Hulk to another dimension shouldn't be easy either, especially if he shows the amount of fighting knowdlege and cunning he showed in WWH.
Thor may have a lot of powers but when it comes to putting the Hulk away they are not enough. Of course, it's true the Hulk cannot reach Thor easyly (Thor could stay miles away and just send lightning after lightning against the Hulk), but the Hulk is not as outmatched as you like to think.
Note it's the classical version of Thor I'm talking about.

[Camron Amaya]

If the guy is portrayed as an idiot every single time he fights the Hulk, what am I supposed to think? How many times have they fought 6? 10? 15? Is Thor into S&M? Using your logic, I could claim that Savage Hulk is really smarter than Dr. Doom, Juggernaut is smarter than X-men, and Rhino is smarter than the Spider-man but they just haven't been handled by the appopriate writer, either.

10, 15 times? Lol No.

Look this argument is idiotic. If you think it's not a little bit dumb to cripple one character everytime he's facing another so that one can have a chance, then that's great for you.

Next time Wolverine fights Hulk lets take away Hulks healing factor.

[Kutulu]

10, 15 times? Lol No.

Look this argument is idiotic. If you think it's not a little bit dumb to cripple one character everytime he's facing another so that one can have a chance, then that's great for you.

Next time Wolverine fights Hulk lets take away Hulks healing factor.

Thor and Hulk have fought 10 to 15 times. The only "LOL no" here is you thinking Thor gains instant victory, because he's going to come out straight into the fray with a godblast and then dimensionally teleport Hulk. That's not how comics are written.

Hulk has shown he was physically superior to Thor on more than one occasion. Hulk has an insane resistance to energy attacks - during WWH he got blasted by full Nova blast and Storm blasting him at the same time and shrugged it off like nothing. During his fight with Sentry, Sentry was blasting him like crazy with energy attacks (although most people seem to have glanced over this fact).

Face it, a Godblast doesn't mean an instant win for Thor, and Thor becomes drained from using it. Even if Thor blasted a hole through Hulk, Hulk could heal from that like he healed his midsection after it got blown out by Strange / Zom.

There was quite a few situations where Hulk could have seriously hurt or killed Thor, and likewise Thor to Hulk. Fact of the matter is that they are fairly evenly matched throughout the years, with Thor having the edge due to more versatile powers and Hulk having the edge in the physical department. For anybody to say that one is clearly more powerful than the other is laughable.

[Pike]

There was quite a few situations where Hulk could have seriously hurt or killed Thor, and likewise Thor to Hulk. Fact of the matter is that they are fairly evenly matched throughout the years, with Thor having the edge due to more versatile powers and Hulk having the edge in the physical department. For anybody to say that one is clearly more powerful than the other is laughable.

No, it isn't. You are right that in terms of comic books they'll never fight like they should. If you strip it down though, Thor has a lot more power than the Hulk does. If he even used a fraction of them then he is beating the Hulk.

The godblast staggered a celestial. A dimension dump affect Surtur. He can take his power to an whole other level that the Hulk can't.

Now if Thor slugs it out with the Hulk the fight will go on. They have to have Thor do this otherwise Thor will win every fight.

Now if you just go power-to-power with both fighting at their peak capacities then Thor will win. A quick visit to the rumbles board will prove that very quickly. In comics though, they tend to fight like idiots.

[Haquim]

No, it isn't. You are right that in terms of comic books they'll never fight like they should. If you strip it down though, Thor has a lot more power than the Hulk does. If he even used a fraction of them then he is beating the Hulk.

The godblast staggered a celestial. A dimension dump affect Surtur. He can take his power to an whole other level that the Hulk can't.

Now if Thor slugs it out with the Hulk the fight will go on. They have to have Thor do this otherwise Thor will win every fight.

Now if you just go power-to-power with both fighting at their peak capacities then Thor will win. A quick visit to the rumbles board will prove that very quickly. In comics though, they tend to fight like idiots.

While people on the "rumble boards" know much better than professional comic writers how a fight between Thor and Hulk should end...
That's why Hulk has defeated Thor more often than not...:biggrin:

[Pike]

While people on the "rumble boards" know much better than professional comic writers how a fight between Thor and Hulk should end...
That's why Hulk has defeated Thor more often than not...:biggrin:

People on the rumbles board don't have to assume someone is just going to forget their powers.

For example, why is it ok for Thor to stop time or use a godblast in one fight but he totally forgets about it when fighting the Hulk? Why is that ok? Thor has way too many powers for the Hulk. If Thor brawls with the Hulk then he will eventually lose but Thor fighting like he does against other foes will own the Hulk. So comic book writers have to dumb Thor down just so the Hulk even has a small chance.

[Kutulu]

People on the rumbles board don't have to assume someone is just going to forget their powers.

For example, why is it ok for Thor to stop time or use a godblast in one fight but he totally forgets about it when fighting the Hulk? Why is that ok? Thor has way too many powers for the Hulk. If Thor brawls with the Hulk then he will eventually lose but Thor fighting like he does against other foes will own the Hulk. So comic book writers have to dumb Thor down just so the Hulk even has a small chance.

Yes because you are just so much smarter than the writers. So what comics have you written again? What books have you written?

Writer > Thor fanboy. pwned.

[dabig2]

Get that rumble boards shit out of here. Just a bunch of fanboys who only think about the "big" powers instead of the actual battle itself, namely strategy of BOTH opponents, what attacks come after what and how they'd avoid such attacks if the other guy is even allowed to get such an attack off. Like the official comic stories themselves, imagining a battle on the rumble boards is all up to the own person's interpretation on how a battle will proceed. There's so many things to think about and so many different things you can allow happen. "Oh lawlz, Thor can just whammy up his hammer and do a godblast while Hulk picks his ass and waits for it".

[HouseSolo]

Yes because you are just so much smarter than the writers. So what comics have you written again? What books have you written?

Writer > Thor fanboy. pwned.

You sir speak the truth. I like you. Minus the "pwned" thing.

[beetheb]

Get that rumble boards shit out of here. Just a bunch of fanboys who only think about the "big" powers instead of the actual battle itself, namely strategy of BOTH opponents, what attacks come after what and how they'd avoid such attacks if the other guy is even allowed to get such an attack off. Like the official comic stories themselves, imagining a battle on the rumble boards is all up to the own person's interpretation on how a battle will proceed. There's so many things to think about and so many different things you can allow happen. "Oh lawlz, Thor can just whammy up his hammer and do a godblast while Hulk picks his ass and waits for it".No, you're making way too much sense here, man.

Stop it. Now.

[Lochdale]

Yes because you are just so much smarter than the writers. So what comics have you written again? What books have you written?

Writer > Thor fanboy. pwned.

So writers who entirely forget someone's powerset are somehow smarter? So when they literally ignore both a character's history and their powerset that makes someone "smarter"?

I don't think so. They may be able to tell a better story than any of us but that doesn't mean the story is consistent with either the character or the powerset of that character.

So in order for a writer to make a Thor v. Hulk fight close they need to either dumb Thor down to a level he's never been in his own comic or even in the Avengers or have Thor forget pretty much all of his powers.

So while comic book writers write a better story they still have to forget powers that would let characters win fairly quickly.

Look at the Wolverine v. Hulk fights. Even with his healing power, the Hulk should splatter Wolverine all over the place. Same with Thor, they have to dumb him down or make him forget his powers or else he just beats the Hulk each and every fight.

[HouseSolo]

So writers who entirely forget someone's powerset are somehow smarter? So when they literally ignore both a character's history and their powerset that makes someone "smarter"?

I don't think so. They may be able to tell a better story than any of us but that doesn't mean the story is consistent with either the character or the powerset of that character.

So in order for a writer to make a Thor v. Hulk fight close they need to either dumb Thor down to a level he's never been in his own comic or even in the Avengers or have Thor forget pretty much all of his powers.

So while comic book writers write a better story they still have to forget powers that would let characters win fairly quickly.

Look at the Wolverine v. Hulk fights. Even with his healing power, the Hulk should splatter Wolverine all over the place. Same with Thor, they have to dumb him down or make him forget his powers or else he just beats the Hulk each and every fight.

People are still riding the "Hulk should have never beaten Thor" train. C'mon, now, get past it people. Hulk Annual 2001 Thor knocked him out once and Hulk knocked him out twice and nearly killed him once. It's a testament to how much stronger he is despite his lack of magic type powers.

Thor used his lightning in that issue. The only thing I dont recall are his Godblats, but those might have been used. Even if he did, Hulk would have ended up getting out of the way, or it wouldn't have knocked him out, because that's what suited the story.

The then-marvel-editor, decided Hulk should win and with good reason.

[Dr. Chaos]

The then-marvel-editor, decided Hulk should win and with good reason.
Hulk is the bigger star, I don't think any Thor fan deny that.

And in the case of two ridiculously powerful characters, I can understand a lil lee way to give someone the edge. Thor vs Hulk isn't exactly Spider-Man vs The Silver Surfer, Thor and Hulk can throw down competitively.

The Hulk is a complete freak accident of the universe, he can see through magic, almost (literally) splt the earth in two in WWH and can probably take more punishment than Wolverine could ever dream of.

If The Red Hulk is as much of a jacked up cosmic/reality smasher as he's been hinted to be, the two might be more evenly matched than people think.

Neither are quite the same as they were before.

[Gloom Cookie]

People are still riding the "Hulk should have never beaten Thor" train. C'mon, now, get past it people. Hulk Annual 2001 Thor knocked him out once and Hulk knocked him out twice and nearly killed him once. It's a testament to how much stronger he is despite his lack of magic type powers.

Thor used his lightning in that issue.

The strange thing is the lightning in that issue knocked him out for a bit, yet in Hulk #440, Thor hits him with a much bigger blast of lightning and it barely slows Hulk down.
Thor was in Warrior Madness mode at the time, as well, and was attempting to kill Hulk. I'm not sure Marvel will ever give a definitive win for either character, just like they don't for Hulk/Juggernaut.

[Kutulu]

The strange thing is the lightning in that issue knocked him out for a bit, yet in Hulk #440, Thor hits him with a much bigger blast of lightning and it barely slows Hulk down.
Thor was in Warrior Madness mode at the time, as well, and was attempting to kill Hulk. I'm not sure Marvel will ever give a definitive win for either character, just like they don't for Hulk/Juggernaut.

The reason that his lightning can affect Hulk differently is that Hulk's durability increases along with his strength when he gets angry. Look at WWH: Many of the same attacks which seriously hurt him or knocked him out before did little to him during WWH, example: Wolverine had trouble cutting him during WWH vs X-men 2 (Wolverine came down with a double claw attack and didn't break Hulk's skin, and Wolverine admits that Hulk has become harder to cut).

There's another instance of Genis attacking Hulk saying that a blast with half the power seriously damaged him, so he amps up his attack to twice as powerful as before and it has hardly any effect at all on Hulk. So it's on-panel and shown throughout Hulk's history that his strength, regeneration, and durability all increase when he gets angry - not just his strength.

[Haquim]

So writers who entirely forget someone's powerset are somehow smarter? So when they literally ignore both a character's history and their powerset that makes someone "smarter"?

I don't think so. They may be able to tell a better story than any of us but that doesn't mean the story is consistent with either the character or the powerset of that character.

So in order for a writer to make a Thor v. Hulk fight close they need to either dumb Thor down to a level he's never been in his own comic or even in the Avengers or have Thor forget pretty much all of his powers.

So while comic book writers write a better story they still have to forget powers that would let characters win fairly quickly.

Look at the Wolverine v. Hulk fights. Even with his healing power, the Hulk should splatter Wolverine all over the place. Same with Thor, they have to dumb him down or make him forget his powers or else he just beats the Hulk each and every fight.

No.. to make Thor lose more than he wins... and by far :biggrin:
Your argument implies you and those who share your opinion know how to handle a Thor vs Hulk fight better than professional writers (and you tend to forget all hulk powers as well... for example how do you defeat something that cannot be destroyed or killed permanently?:biggrin: ). Sorry if we doubt that's true and believe most professional writers know better than you and the -great- people on the "rumble boards"...:biggrin:

[Hrungr]

Just in case there was any doubt...

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview2.php?image=solicits/marvelcomics/200807/hulk5.jpg

Hulk #5
COVER BY: ED MCGUINNESS
WRITER: JEPH LOEB
PENCILS: ED MCGUINNESS
INKS: DEXTER VINES
COLORED BY: JASON KEITH
LETTERED BY: COMICRAFT

THE STORY:
Superstars JEPH LOEB & ED MCGUINNESS continue their historic epic! With the entire West Coast in peril, who can stop the battle of the Century when Two, count 'em TWO Hulks, get to brawling? How about everyone's favorite Thunder God -- THE MIGHTY THOR!? He was out of town during WORLD WAR HULK -- THIS is the match-up you've been DEMANDING! But can even a God stop the Red Hulk? Find out now!!!

From Marvel.com: Hulk smash puny Asgardian thunder god! Thor pays a visit to the Red Hulk in HULK #5, giving fans the confrontation they missed in WORLD WAR HULK! Artist Ed McGuinness brings the sturm-und-drang in this slugfest, and if you don't believe us, just take a gander at that smash-tastic cover art to your right!

Rated A …$2.99

PRICE: 2.99
IN STORES: July 23, 2008

[DaeJi]

Thor can teleport the Hulk to the middle of space before the Hulk can do anything to him. A Thor vs. Hulk fight has to be skrewed in the Hulk's favor for there to even be a fight. Like it or not, that's reality. Fans of either character need to deal with that. This Red Hulk is supposed to be a cosmic force, so maybe we'll get to see Thor actually use his powers in this fight. The Red Hulk is still probably going to win (Thor vs. Hulk fights always, and will always, favor Hulk), but it may be a good fight.

[Hrungr]

Thor can teleport the Hulk to the middle of space before the Hulk can do anything to him.
Doesn't Thor have to create a portal first, then get the Hulk to go through? I think the Hulk is going to be wary of that trick after the last time. And since Thor's portals have been stymied by having rubble thrown on them (eg. Nefaria), I don't think it's the auto-win you make it out to be.

[ivesaidway2much]

Thor can teleport the Hulk to the middle of space before the Hulk can do anything to him. A Thor vs. Hulk fight has to be skrewed in the Hulk's favor for there to even be a fight. Like it or not, that's reality. Fans of either character need to deal with that. This Red Hulk is supposed to be a cosmic force, so maybe we'll get to see Thor actually use his powers in this fight. The Red Hulk is still probably going to win (Thor vs. Hulk fights always, and will always, favor Hulk), but it may be a good fight.Only if it occurs on a Rumbles board. Thor has the magic and the greater sense of moral responsibility. Hulk has the brains and the brawn. Any number of interesting permutations can arise from that. And some already have.

[beetheb]

Like it or not, that's reality. Fans of either character need to deal with that.No it isn't, it's comics.

I think fans need to deal with that.

Edit: To add to my comment; I don't see a thing wrong with Rumbles, any more than I see a thing wrong with RPG's or fanfic, but people talking in absolutes during a rumble between fictional characters ("<this> WOULD happen if Screwy the Squirrell fought Lucky the Leprechaun, and there's nothing you can do to change that!!") I think is silly.

[Mitchel]

If I was creating a fight game where Thor and Hulk would battle I would give Hulk the ability to disrupt Thor's hammer magic with a handclap blast so everytime Thor was about to use his magical powers Hulk would clap really hard and short circuit Thor's powers.

[TuPeT]

You can't actually tell me that Hulk is going to beat Thor WITH Odinforce (now called Thorforce).

He fighted toe to toe with regular Thor, I can't believe Hulk can even touch him now. It's another level. Now you can't even compare...

[ivesaidway2much]

If I was creating a fight game where Thor and Hulk would battle I would give Hulk the ability to disrupt Thor's hammer magic with a handclap blast so everytime Thor was about to use his magical powers Hulk would clap really hard and short circuit Thor's powers.The handclap! That's what Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was missing. At least that's what I remember. I was still unbeatable with a Hulk/Captain America team up, though.

[Kutulu]

You can't actually tell me that Hulk is going to beat Thor WITH Odinforce (now called Thorforce).

He fighted toe to toe with regular Thor, I can't believe Hulk can even touch him now. It's another level. Now you can't even compare...

Thor ten times stronger? Hulk just gets ten times as mad!

Besides the writer himself already stated that Hulk post Miek comment was stronger than Thor with the Odinforce. Now you have a cosmic power level Hulk...

[Dr. Chaos]

I guess I was right after all, I'm glad this is taking place in the main title, deserves a lil more than a piece of a one shot.

Say what you want about Loeb and the cheese in his writing, but he's really not skimping on the smashing.

He's blowing the load right out of this book.


He fighted toe to toe with regular Thor, I can't believe Hulk can even touch him now. It's another level. Now you can't even compare
Again, what do we know about this Red Hulk? Not much yet. This isn't regular Hulk either, you have to keep in mind.

We'll have to wait and see.

[Pike]

No.. to make Thor lose more than he wins... and by far :biggrin:
Your argument implies you and those who share your opinion know how to handle a Thor vs Hulk fight better than professional writers (and you tend to forget all hulk powers as well... for example how do you defeat something that cannot be destroyed or killed permanently?:biggrin: ). Sorry if we doubt that's true and believe most professional writers know better than you and the -great- people on the "rumble boards"...:biggrin:

I think it's just a case of writers having to forget powers to make a story close. Read what Lochdale actually said, in order for the Thor-Hulk fight to be close they have to make Thor fight like an idiot and forget his other powers. That's just a fact. Its something a writer will have to do to make the story actually last otherwise Thor beats the Hulk in about 2 panels.

[Desmodus]

Thor is going to take a beating, that much is certain.

Wow the Thor hate is strong in this one.

Wait, Sentry fan, nuff said.

[Kutulu]

Wow the Thor hate is strong in this one.

Wait, Sentry fan, nuff said.

Sentry vs. Thor is a fight that's been in the making for a long long time. :biggrin:

[XPac]

I think it's just a case of writers having to forget powers to make a story close. Read what Lochdale actually said, in order for the Thor-Hulk fight to be close they have to make Thor fight like an idiot and forget his other powers. That's just a fact. Its something a writer will have to do to make the story actually last otherwise Thor beats the Hulk in about 2 panels.

In all fairness though, a lot of the time that is how Thor fights. Against bricks, Thor does typically prefer to slug it out. He'll only bust out lightning and higher end magical attacks if trading blows really isn't getting him anywhere.

[Desmodus]

Sentry vs. Thor is a fight that's been in the making for a long long time. :biggrin:

Really? I thought this would be quite boring fight because it'll be inconclusive. And for what reason would the Lord of Asgard and the Tower sitting nutjob need to fight?

I'm really looking forward to the Red Hulk versus Thor fight (if there is a fight, just because they are scraping on the cover doesn’t mean they’ll throw down) though due to the fact it is in the Hulk book and it is Loeb writing I think Red Hulk will win the fight as much as I’d prefer Thor to win.

[Camron Amaya]

Wait wait...anyone miss this?

TWO HULKS?

HULK #5
Written by JEPH LOEB
Pencils & Cover by ED MCGUINNESS
Variant Cover by OLIVIER COIPEL
Superstars JEPH LOEB & ED MCGUINNESS continue their historic epic! With the entire West Coast in peril, who can stop the battle of the Century when Two, count 'em TWO Hulks, get to brawling? How about everyone's favorite Thunder God -- THE MIGHTY THOR!? He was out of town during WORLD WAR HULK -- THIS is the match-up you've been DEMANDING! But can even a God stop the Red Hulk? Find out now!!!

[Desmodus]

In all fairness though, a lot of the time that is how Thor fights. Against bricks, Thor does typically prefer to slug it out. He'll only bust out lightning and higher end magical attacks if trading blows really isn't getting him anywhere.

Does Thor prefer to slug it out or do the writers who know the fans would cry foul if Thor actually used his powers efficiently and just blasted/teleported all his foes away?

Essentially, for Thor to be an entertaining read writers have to dumb him down and introduce a lot of PIS.

Camron: see my bracketed point in my above post.

[Pike]

In all fairness though, a lot of the time that is how Thor fights. Against bricks, Thor does typically prefer to slug it out. He'll only bust out lightning and higher end magical attacks if trading blows really isn't getting him anywhere.

I agree with you here. Thing is, Thor tends to learn from his fights except when he fights the Hulk. He should know by now that he can't brawl with the Hulk. He'll just lose. With the hammer though he can do most anything he wants but he never seems to use his head to just outright beat the Hulk or transport him to Venus or something.

[Camron Amaya]

Exactly. When he fought the Juggernaut he didn't just bash him. With Gladiator he didn't just bash him.

It's only with Hulk he get this "I must only use brute force" idea. And that's becuz the Hulk is obviosly more of an icon then the other 2.

Anyone in these arguments who denies that Hulk is phyislcy stronger (eventualy) then pretty much everyone is wrong. He is. Eventualy, in the right circumstances.

And anyone who denies Thor is more powerfull is wrong.

Anyone who denies the fact that it would obviosly be a different fight if Thor used his other powers is in denial.

To say Thor doesn't deserve ANY victories is stupid. Two beings have have ALWAYS been more or less evenly matched and respected, but only one of them should get the victories each time? And the less powerfull one at that?

Cmon now. It's like some people want the Hulk to be just invincible. Now they're saying the Odinforce is nothing to the Red Hulk Lol. Me personaly I have no problem seeing either of them be smacked down by people like Galactus or Celestials (and Thor has been) but seems like some Hulk fans think he should be the One Above All.

[Pike]

There was a great issue of Thor, Thor 385, where he fights the Hulk without his hammer. He puts up a great fight but loses. That was a great issue for me because it made sense. When he has the hammer and he does things like drain magneto or absorb power from the Surfer yet does none of that with the Hulk the fight is just plain stupid.

Can't see the Red Hulk doing anything but beating the crap out of both Thor and the Green Hulk.

[XPac]

Does Thor prefer to slug it out or do the writers who know the fans would cry foul if Thor actually used his powers efficiently and just blasted/teleported all his foes away?

Essentially, for Thor to be an entertaining read writers have to dumb him down and introduce a lot of PIS.

Camron: see my bracketed point in my above post.

I think it's a little bit of both.

I do think writers want to avoid having him use his powers to the fullest. But I also think Thor s the type of guy that wants to go in there and get his hands dirty. I think he enjoys conventional hand to hand combat when he can get away with it.

[Desmodus]

I think it's a little bit of both.

I do think writers want to avoid having him use his powers to the fullest. But I also think Thor s the type of guy that wants to go in there and get his hands dirty. I think he enjoys conventional hand to hand combat when he can get away with it.

I agree. He is a warrior first and foremost.

In the MU is he considered the Asgardian God of War?

[XPac]

I agree. He is a warrior first and foremost.

In the MU is he considered the Asgardian God of War?

The MU version of Tyr (the Asgardian God of War) really doesn't get a whole lot of play for some reason. He does exist though.

[Pike]

I think it's a little bit of both.

I do think writers want to avoid having him use his powers to the fullest. But I also think Thor s the type of guy that wants to go in there and get his hands dirty. I think he enjoys conventional hand to hand combat when he can get away with it.

But he's no fool. He knows that a brawl agains the Hulk is just a bad, bad move. Thor can take a huge amount of punishment but going toe to toe with the Hulk is too much even for him. He should know by now that he should stay back and use the power of the hammer to beat the Hulk.

[XPac]

But he's no fool. He knows that a brawl agains the Hulk is just a bad, bad move. Thor can take a huge amount of punishment but going toe to toe with the Hulk is too much even for him. He should know by now that he should stay back and use the power of the hammer to beat the Hulk.

The same arguement could be said about fighting Juggernaut... yet Thor's plan A is pretty much always to come in swinging. He eventually busts out the bigger guns, but he always starts out wanting to trade punches.

That's just how Thor fights. You can say he's a fool for approaching certain people in that manner... or maybe a flaw or potential weakness. But I think it's pretty established that this is how he approached fights with bricks... even high end ones like Hulk and Juggernaut. I would almost venture to guess that he ESPECIALLY wants to duke it out with guys like Hulk and Juggernaut because they DO present such huge challenges. Right or wrong, I think the thrill of the fight begins overriding the common sense approach of taking him out as quickly and effeciantly as possible.

[DaeJi]

I will admit, I really want Thor to win. And by win, I mean a clear, obvious "Thor just beat the Hulk!" win. I think the Hulk could use a beat down after WWH, but that's just me. Fanboyism/fangirlism doesn't lead to good stories.

Heh, pulled with from Newsarama (Equinox):

Jeph Loeb: Let's see. I need someone super strong, someone I've written totally out of character in the Ultimate Universe, and someone who Ed McGuinness is going to draw really sweet. AHA!! THOR!! No one's writing Thor right now anyway!

JMS: Uh, excuse me, Jeph? I'm writing Thor. And right now he's currently---

Loeb: There! Done! Script done!

JMS: ....you poured your Alpha-Bits out onto a piece of paper.

Loeb: Alpha-Bits! Gettin' it done since 1991!!

[XPac]

I will admit, I really want Thor to win. And by win, I mean a clear, obvious "Thor just beat the Hulk!" win. I think the Hulk could use a beat down after WWH, but that's just me. Fanboyism/fangirlism doesn't lead to good stories.



If we're talking about Red Hulk thought, then you can't really say that HE deserves a beatdown from WWH. That's like arguing War Machine or Ant-Man deserves a beat down for what Stark or Pym have done.

[DaeJi]

If we're talking about Red Hulk thought, then you can't really say that HE deserves a beatdown from WWH. That's like arguing War Machine or Ant-Man deserves a beat down for what Stark or Pym have done.

Oh, Ant-Man always deserves a beat down. He's Ant-Man. And like I said, fanboyism/fangirlism makes for crappy stories.

[Joe Franklin]

HULK #5
Written by JEPH LOEB
Pencils & Cover by ED MCGUINNESS
Variant Cover by OLIVIER COIPEL


Here is the Coipel variant cover.
http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/lib/view2.htm?fliename=/i/content/st/3143new_storyimage8212202_full.jpg

[Dr. Chaos]

I think the Hulk could use a beat down after WWH
I don't think he does.

Everybody he beat the crap out of (excluding the Iluminati) chose to fight The Hulk, the Hulk didn't want to fight anybody except for those who exiled him, everybody he tore a new one was just stupid enough to take him on instead of just letting him teach the Illuminati a lesson and moving on.

[bjtrdff]

I don't think he does.

Everybody he beat the crap out of (excluding the Iluminati) chose to fight The Hulk, the Hulk didn't want to fight anybody except for those who exiled him, everybody he tore a new one was just stupid enough to take him on instead of just letting him teach the Illuminati a lesson and moving on.



Hulk shouldnt have beaten 50 class 100 people attacking him at once, and Strange should have snapped his fingers and made him disappear. I perfectly understand why the story had to have things play out that way, but Hulk needs a sassing.

[XPac]

Hulk shouldnt have beaten 50 class 100 people attacking him at once, and Strange should have snapped his fingers and made him disappear. I perfectly understand why the story had to have things play out that way, but Hulk needs a sassing.

Who were the 50 class 100 people attacking him? I think Wonder Man was pretty much it, until Sentry threw his hat into the ring.

There was Juggernaut actually, and Hulk didn't actually beat him.

[Hrungr]

Bah. It's Thor that needs the beatdown to show that he still has peers.

[Dr. Chaos]

There was Juggernaut actually, and Hulk didn't actually beat him.
Didn't he (Hulk) basically just go "Get the **** out of here" and push him out of the way?

Didn't read the X-Men tie-in.

[HouseSolo]

Who were the 50 class 100 people attacking him? I think Wonder Man was pretty much it, until Sentry threw his hat into the ring.

There was Juggernaut actually, and Hulk didn't actually beat him.

Haha, yes he did, man. He ruined the Juggernaut in that first issue of the fight, and then he just moved on. No one need be knocked out to see who kicked the shit otu of who. I declare thee a Hulk Hater! :tongue:

I think they're writing this issue so we can really get a sense of how powerful this red hulk is. It's not the Hulk, that's important to remember, tis' a completely seperate character from who we associate as The Hulk.

[Hrungr]

I think they're writing this issue so we can really get a sense of how powerful this red hulk is. It's not the Hulk, that's important to remember, tis' a completely seperate character from who we associate as The Hulk.
While it's not Banner as his alter ego, who's to say that the Red Hulk isn't at least a part of the "real" Hulk's consciousness. After all, color aside the RH looks just like the GH and not just another gamma Hulk-like being. Something to think about.

[XPac]

Haha, yes he did, man. He ruined the Juggernaut in that first issue of the fight, and then he just moved on. No one need be knocked out to see who kicked the shit otu of who. I declare thee a Hulk Hater! :tongue:

I think they're writing this issue so we can really get a sense of how powerful this red hulk is. It's not the Hulk, that's important to remember, tis' a completely seperate character from who we associate as The Hulk.

He did beat Juggy before he was fully powered... but once Juggernaut was fully powered I don't think it's accurate to say Hulk "beat" him. He figured out a way to get past the Juggernaut. But to argue that Hulk beat him isn't entirely fair.

The criticism I was responding to stated that Hulk beat 50 guys with Class 100 strength. And I think that's a pretty unfair discription. He got past Juggernaut, without necessarily beating him. And Wonder Man was beaten. I think that's it in th class 100 department until Sentry shows up, unless I'm missing someone.

[Hrungr]

The criticism I was responding to stated that Hulk beat 50 guys with Class 100 strength. And I think that's a pretty unfair discription. He got past Juggernaut, without necessarily beating him. And Wonder Man was beaten. I think that's it in th class 100 department until Sentry shows up, unless I'm missing someone.
Well, there were a couple of others - the Hulkbuster IM suit has got to be well into the Class 100 range as would Dr. StrangeZom. She-Hulk's Class 100 according to the Gamma Files, Grey from the Gamma Corps, Colossus according to some, Guido when amped and Ben should also be close.

[XPac]

Well, there were a couple of others - the Hulkbuster IM suit has got to be well into the Class 100 range as would Dr. StrangeZom. She-Hulk's Class 100 according to the Gamma Files, Grey from the Gamma Corps, Colossus according to some, Guido when amped and Ben should also be close.

Is She-Hulk back up to Class 100? I thought she was powered down. It's cool if she is though... there aren't a whole lot of class 100 females out there.

[Hrungr]

Is She-Hulk back up to Class 100? I thought she was powered down. It's cool if she is though... there aren't a whole lot of class 100 females out there.
She powered way down for bit there (barely able to press Spidey-level weight), but she's on her way back up. Gamma Files has her most current bio.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Didn't he (Hulk) basically just go "Get the **** out of here" and push him out of the way?

Didn't read the X-Men tie-in.Absolutely not.

Juggernaut was slowly pushing Hulk back when Xaiver called out to Juggernaut that their fight was destroying the school grounds. This distracted Juggernaut a little and Hulk used his own unstopablity agaisnt him by side-stepping Jugernaut and letting him plow straight-ahead. Juggernaut ended up too far away to come back in time to save Xavier.

And you should read the X-men tie in, it was better than the actual mini.

[TuPeT]

Thor ten times stronger? Hulk just gets ten times as mad!

Besides the writer himself already stated that Hulk post Miek comment was stronger than Thor with the Odinforce. Now you have a cosmic power level Hulk...

And yet so powerfull, the regular Sentry was able to fight him down. But Thor with Odinforce could take a beat from the Hulk?

Thor ten times stronger is when he's with the Warrior Madness, i think. Isn't it?

Odinforce is power that created all in the universe, for what i understand (i could be wrong).
For Odin's sake, do you remember Odin? All mighty Odin? The powerfull being? All that power belongs to Thor now. I still can't understand how Hulk can reach that kind of force.

[Camron Amaya]

And yet so powerfull, the regular Sentry was able to fight him down. But Thor with Odinforce could take a beat from the Hulk?

Thor ten times stronger is when he's with the Warrior Madness, i think. Isn't it?

Odinforce is power that created all in the universe, for what i understand (i could be wrong).
For Odin's sake, do you remember Odin? All mighty Odin? The powerfull being? All that power belongs to Thor now. I still can't understand how Hulk can reach that kind of force.

nah the odinforce didn't create the universe....that's just odin talking within the context of the norse myths...but the MU wasn't created by him they're not even the oldest Gods in it..

[Pike]

The Odin force was powerful enough to bust a galaxy though. Odin would beat the Hulk in about a nano-second. The current Thor though doesn't seem that powerful as Odin once was.

[ivesaidway2much]

The Odin force was powerful enough to bust a galaxy though. Odin would beat the Hulk in about a nano-second. The current Thor though doesn't seem that powerful as Odin once was.Actually, one of the Hulk's most impressive strength feats is clapping away a galaxy destroying blast. Two galaxy busters might be able get the job done, though.

[Rev. Calibos]

Greetings all, first post.

Thor's a bad ass but the Hulk would eventually wipe the floor with him.

There's a limit to Thor's strength, even when in 'berzerker' mode or when he's carrying the Odin force.....the Hulk never stops. There's no limit to his strength and, after a GREAT while, the Hulk would get ticked off enough that his strength would surpass Goldilocks and voila, Hulk victory.

Of course, that is if the Hulk still HAS that stip....I just got back into comics recently.

[Tombu]

Actually, one of the Hulk's most impressive strength feats is clapping away a galaxy destroying blast. Two galaxy busters might be able get the job done, though.

Oh man, the comic physics make me so mad sometimes. I mean come on, a sonic boom that destroys a galaxy? Wtf, since when can sonic pressure waves travel through the vacuum of space? :confused:

Or maybe Hulk send some strange gamma waves that destroy stars by clapping his hands...

Well, on the other hand, can't really say that the physics involving other characters are any more realistic. With the likes of Thor you at least have the god-card to play, or with Strange the magic, Reed the mind bogling tech, and so on.

I mean come on, destroying a galaxy by clapping your hands? Even destroying a planet by clapping would have to make him a class 1 kvantillion trillion billion brick or something similarly utterly stupid. Plus the damage soak would have to be insane, basicly making him completely invunurable to physical damage. He's standing right in the middle of the blast, for crying out loud! And all of the energy is directed right to his palms! Ugh.

[Camron Amaya]

Greetings all, first post.

Thor's a bad ass but the Hulk would eventually wipe the floor with him.

There's a limit to Thor's strength, even when in 'berzerker' mode or when he's carrying the Odin force.....the Hulk never stops. There's no limit to his strength and, after a GREAT while, the Hulk would get ticked off enough that his strength would surpass Goldilocks and voila, Hulk victory.

Of course, that is if the Hulk still HAS that stip....I just got back into comics recently.

Right so in other words, no matter how powerful the foe is, Hulk must always win.

Makes sense.

[ivesaidway2much]

Right so in other words, no matter how powerful the foe is, Hulk must always win.

Makes sense.That's not true! He could always lose to another Hulk.:biggrin:

[Kutulu]

Right so in other words, no matter how powerful the foe is, Hulk must always win.

Makes sense.

Hulk almost always wins against opponents who don't immediately vanquish him. If he has time to work up his anger and a just cause he can literally be as strong as he needs to be in order to get something done. He's a walking plot device. He could literally be stronger than everybody else in the universe combined if he was angry enough. Beyonder himself (pre retcon, the guy who was smashing Celestials like nothing and swatted away Galactus like a fly) was surprised to find that Hulk had an infinity of energy that he could tap into.

[Camron Amaya]

Hulk almost always wins against opponents who don't immediately vanquish him. If he has time to work up his anger and a just cause he can literally be as strong as he needs to be in order to get something done. He's a walking plot device. He could literally be stronger than everybody else in the universe combined if he was angry enough. Beyonder himself (pre retcon, the guy who was smashing Celestials like nothing and swatted away Galactus like a fly) was surprised to find that Hulk had an infinity of energy that he could tap into.

And the point of this was..........?

So ARE YOU saying the Hulk should be invincible and win every fight?

Cuz if you're not that was pointless.

[Rev. Calibos]

Right so in other words, no matter how powerful the foe is, Hulk must always win.

Makes sense.

Not the case. In reasonable battles the Hulk is going to have an advantage (Hulk vs. Thing, Hulk vs. Thor, Hulk vs. Namor, etc.) but those are battles that are within the realm of reason.

If he were to face off against a cosmic opponent he wouldn't have that advantage. (as was mentioned in an earlier post, if he were to face Galactus or a Celestial it wouldn't matter how angry he got.)


In the case of Thor where it's been shown in dozens of encounters that the Hulk can give him a run for his money, it's well within the realm of reason to assume that, despite Thor's strength, despite his resolve, at some point the Hulk is going to get to a level that surpasses him.

[W.Y.B.A.]

...First off, use of the "Thorforce" drains Thor, in case you forgot. Thor isn't going to just godblast away everybody he meets, else he'd be in Thorsleep for a very long time. Secondly Thor can't just instantly teleport people away, it takes time to create the dimensional portal, and Hulk isn't going to just stand there while he does it. Thirdly Hulk has already been trapped in between dimensions before and has had battles that shook entire dimensions while there. So it isn't as easy a task as you make it out to be....

Someone made the above points on another thread and I wondered what comments both Thor and Hulk fans would like to make about this. They sound like good points to me.

[TuPeT]

Greetings all, first post.

Thor's a bad ass but the Hulk would eventually wipe the floor with him.

There's a limit to Thor's strength, even when in 'berzerker' mode or when he's carrying the Odin force.....the Hulk never stops. There's no limit to his strength and, after a GREAT while, the Hulk would get ticked off enough that his strength would surpass Goldilocks and voila, Hulk victory.

Of course, that is if the Hulk still HAS that stip....I just got back into comics recently.

That's not all like that, is it? In WWH The Sentry tied with him, he fighted with the Hulk until the were both depleted. So Hulk isn't that invincible. He had a limit, it could be a almost infinite one, but there's still one.

Thor have so much power and magics normally, there's always a anti-life and anti-force (I don't know if thats the real name in english), but with Odinforce, I insist, it's nother level...

[Kutulu]

That's not all like that, is it? In WWH The Sentry tied with him, he fighted with the Hulk until the were both depleted. So Hulk isn't that invincible. He had a limit, it could be a almost infinite one, but there's still one.

Thor have so much power and magics normally, there's always a anti-life and anti-force (I don't know if thats the real name in english), but with Odinforce, I insist, it's nother level...

Except that Hulk in a few pages later was at full health and far stronger than he was even when he fought Sentry after Miek made his statement. So Hulk had plenty of strength left. More likely than not he ran out of anger as Bob started to power down.

[Pike]

Actually, one of the Hulk's most impressive strength feats is clapping away a galaxy destroying blast. Two galaxy busters might be able get the job done, though.

You're not seriously suggesting that the Hulk would last against Odin? You're deluded. Odin would destroy the Hulk or just do what the Surfer did and revert him back to banner. Fight over.

[Pike]

Except that Hulk in a few pages later was at full health and far stronger than he was even when he fought Sentry after Miek made his statement. So Hulk had plenty of strength left. More likely than not he ran out of anger as Bob started to power down.

Of couse Bob never just used his Superspeed or just flung him into the sun. A typical Hulk fight. The other fighter forgets all of his powers otherwise the Hulk loses.

[Drdmx]

The super speed argument is so tired. Have you ever tried to hit something as fast as you possibly can? Sure you can touch it more often, but you couldnt hit it nearly as hard as if you were squared up and putting your weight behind it.

[Kutulu]

Of couse Bob never just used his Superspeed or just flung him into the sun. A typical Hulk fight. The other fighter forgets all of his powers otherwise the Hulk loses.

Gladiator tried this and left himself vulnerable while he attempted to fly Hulk into outer space, so Hulk thunderclapped his head in and virtually knocked him out in one shot. Coming up close to Hulk isn't that great of an idea and generally hasn't worked that great in the past. Hulk has plenty of experience fighting speedsters in the past; Hyperion for example was fighting Gladiator in nanoseconds on-panel, and Hulk has matched both Hyperion and gladiator with no issues. Same goes for Silver Surfer, yet Hulk beat down Surfer during Planet Hulk (after a cheap shot, but beat him down nonetheless, something he was simply incapable of doing before cheapshot or not).

Sentry's showing against WWH was actually one of the best showings out of any character on Marvel Earth.

It's not in Sentry's character to toss a good guy into the sun either. Just like it's not in Thor's character to simply come out of the gate with a full godblast then a teleport attack. As Cho stated, Hulk didn't kill anybody, as the Banner portion of his brain was running the numbers, constantly calculating everything to make sure nobody got killed.

[Pike]

Gladiator tried this and left himself vulnerable while he attempted to fly Hulk into outer space, so Hulk thunderclapped his head in and virtually knocked him out in one shot. Coming up close to Hulk isn't that great of an idea and generally hasn't worked that great in the past. Hulk has plenty of experience fighting speedsters in the past; Hyperion for example was fighting Gladiator in nanoseconds on-panel, and Hulk has matched both Hyperion and gladiator with no issues. Same goes for Silver Surfer, yet Hulk beat down Surfer during Planet Hulk (after a cheap shot, but beat him down nonetheless, something he was simply incapable of doing before cheapshot or not).
.


Sigh. They never used their full speed on the Hulk. The Hulk has never, ever fought in nano seconds. Never done it. When he fought both of them they never used their speed.

Of course, this was a Surfer who had half his power gone. You do remember that right? Right?



It's not in Sentry's character to toss a good guy into the sun either. Just like it's not in Thor's character to simply come out of the gate with a full godblast then a teleport attack. As Cho stated, Hulk didn't kill anybody, as the Banner portion of his brain was running the numbers, constantly calculating everything to make sure nobody got killed

That's all true but then the Sentry was fighting Genis with enough power to destroy the planet. He and the Hulk barely damaged Manhattan. There was so much more that the Sentry could have done. The fact is, the Hulk has never been truly blitzed because he has no defense against it. The Sentry could hit him 100 times before the Hulk could hit him once. Makes for a very short fight.

[Desmodus]

Greetings all, first post.

Thor's a bad ass but the Hulk would eventually wipe the floor with him.

There's a limit to Thor's strength, even when in 'berzerker' mode or when he's carrying the Odin force.....the Hulk never stops. There's no limit to his strength and, after a GREAT while, the Hulk would get ticked off enough that his strength would surpass Goldilocks and voila, Hulk victory.

Of course, that is if the Hulk still HAS that stip....I just got back into comics recently.

Correct. Hulk does have the ability to be stronger than Thor. However, Strength is not Thor’s only power whereas it is the Hulks.

To be honest, I don’t think anyone knows what Thor’s full powerset is at the moment. I doubt even he knows.

If this fight was in a comic with absolutely PIS then Banner would transform in to the Hulk and Thor would beat him before he gets too powerful.

[Desmodus]

The super speed argument is so tired. Have you ever tried to hit something as fast as you possibly can? Sure you can touch it more often, but you couldnt hit it nearly as hard as if you were squared up and putting your weight behind it.

It may be tired but it is correct. Hulk doesn’t have superspeed, he has no defense against it bar his damage soak.

And you are wrong regarding speed attacks. Power is defined by exerting as much strength as possible as quickly as possible. If you can hit fast you hit with power.

[BioHazard]

It may be tired but it is correct. Hulk doesn’t have superspeed, he has no defense against it bar his damage soak.

And you are wrong regarding speed attacks. Power is defined by exerting as much strength as possible as quickly as possible. If you can hit fast you hit with power.
Why doesn't the Hulk have super speed? Actually, this new Red one might... But I can't understand why someone with such hyperdeveloped musculature, and a nearly infinite reservoir of power can't move himself at insane speeds. It seems logical to me...
Also, is Thor more powerful than a million exploding sons? That's a lot of megatonnage... WWH was at least that strong. The Red Hulk seems stronger. Thor vs. Sentry seems like more appropriate battle regarding strength levels and powersets. Sentry did stalemate Galactus (or something like that). That would suggest that Sentry is stronger than Thor, although I'm not trying to make a rock/paper/scissors argument. I'm just interested in what people think.

[BioHazard]

It is possible that while Hulk's body could concievably move that fast (he does have amazingly rapid and accurate reflexes), his mind cannot percieve the world at such speeds. But then again, if all this time he's been fighting and knocking over buildings and simultaneously calculating how much damage would be inflicted by what, i dunno... I think he might be conceivably be able to defend against a blitz, and possibly execute one himself.

[carabas]

Also, is Thor more powerful than a million exploding sons? That's a lot of megatonnage... WWH was at least that strong.If the Sentry really hit him with even a tiny fraction of the power of a million exploding suns, there wouldn't be a solar system anymore. comics fans are too literalminded sometimes.

[Camron Amaya]

If the Sentry really hit him with even a tiny fraction of the power of a million exploding suns, there wouldn't be a solar system anymore. comics fans are too literalminded sometimes.

Lmao word I laughed at that. They barely destroyed a tiny section of New York.

Anyways Sentry stalemating Galactus was something someone SAID, it was never shown. Don't know how it happend or anything about it. On the other hand we've SEEN Thor drive Galactus off and smack around a hungry Galactus too. Of Course Galactus is above all these guys so what's the point of even talking about this, like it will prove anything.

[Drdmx]

It may be tired but it is correct. Hulk doesn’t have superspeed, he has no defense against it bar his damage soak.

And you are wrong regarding speed attacks. Power is defined by exerting as much strength as possible as quickly as possible. If you can hit fast you hit with power.

Your first sentence is fine. The second one, you pretty much make my point for me.

"Power is defined by exerting as much strength as possible as quickly as possible" - Simply put.. if you're flying all over the place and moving at super speed, you cant square up and get a really good attack on your opponent.

Therefore, "If you can hit fast, you hit with power" isnt necessarily true. Flash can hit Superman all he wants, but if the punches arent strong enough, it doesnt mean a thing.

I'm not even trying to be difficult here.. I'm totally open to the whole speed thing... but seriously, go pick a fight with someone. You might land more punches, but if dude gets one good punch in, it's over. Hands down.

[Desmodus]

The second one, you pretty much make my point for me.

"Power is defined by exerting as much strength as possible as quickly as possible" - Simply put.. if you're flying all over the place and moving at super speed, you cant square up and get a really good attack on your opponent.

No, you don’t understand. Exerting as much strength as possible doesn’t mean from a braced, prepared position/stance etc all the time, it means from any position you try to exert as much strength as possible with as much power as possible.

You are thinking in absolutes, not possibilities.

Irregardless, if X person is fighting Y person and X has superspeed, then X can get into an opportune/optimal position to attack Y so quickly that Y is toast.

As much as I like the Hulk and dislike the Sentry, the Sentry (without PIS to actually make it an entertaining fight) is hands down the winner in a typical (i.e. no special events such as WWH) throw down.

Therefore, "If you can hit fast, you hit with power" isnt necessarily true. Flash can hit Superman all he wants, but if the punches arent strong enough, it doesnt mean a thing.

Er, Superman is nigh on invulnerable to everything but Kryptonite right? Of course the Flash wouldn’t hurt him. Bad example there.

I'm not even trying to be difficult here.. I'm totally open to the whole speed thing... but seriously, go pick a fight with someone. You might land more punches, but if dude gets one good punch in, it's over. Hands down.

I agree. A flyweight fighter will be faster than a heavyweight and like you said, one punch from the heavyweight will knock out the little guy.

However, as we are talking “superspeed” and not real life speed, Hulk would not be able to hit let alone see the Sentry should the writers not be slaves to PIS. And considering the Sentry can legitimately duke it out with the Hulk for a decent amount of time; Sentry speedblitz = Hulk lose.

[Rev. Calibos]

Correct. Hulk does have the ability to be stronger than Thor. However, Strength is not Thor’s only power whereas it is the Hulks.

To be honest, I don’t think anyone knows what Thor’s full powerset is at the moment. I doubt even he knows.

If this fight was in a comic with absolutely PIS then Banner would transform in to the Hulk and Thor would beat him before he gets too powerful.


I'm trying to get my hands on Thor 5-7, 1-4 have been absolutely mindblowing.

I'm becoming familiar with PIS in the Daredevil vs. Batman thread, lol.

I think that it depends on whether or not Banner is even a factor.

For instance if Bruce has to transform first that's one thing, but if we start off with Hulk/Thor instead of Banner/Thor it's an entirely different thing.

Seeing as how we've yet to see Thor's current strength level I'm going to go back to what I would consider to be the 'classic' verions of the characters, the 'Hulk Smash' Green Hulk and pre-battle armor Thor.

[Drdmx]

No, you don’t understand. Exerting as much strength as possible doesn’t mean from a braced, prepared position/stance etc all the time, it means from any position you try to exert as much strength as possible with as much power as possible.

You are thinking in absolutes, not possibilities.

Irregardless, if X person is fighting Y person and X has superspeed, then X can get into an opportune/optimal position to attack Y so quickly that Y is toast.

As much as I like the Hulk and dislike the Sentry, the Sentry (without PIS to actually make it an entertaining fight) is hands down the winner in a typical (i.e. no special events such as WWH) throw down.



Er, Superman is nigh on invulnerable to everything but Kryptonite right? Of course the Flash wouldn’t hurt him. Bad example there.



I agree. A flyweight fighter will be faster than a heavyweight and like you said, one punch from the heavyweight will knock out the little guy.

However, as we are talking “superspeed” and not real life speed, Hulk would not be able to hit let alone see the Sentry should the writers not be slaves to PIS. And considering the Sentry can legitimately duke it out with the Hulk for a decent amount of time; Sentry speedblitz = Hulk lose.

Now you're just being argumenative.

Seeing as we're not in a rumble thread, I'll leave it alone. Oh, and to your point of Flash and Superman being a bad example, uh... one of Hulk's powers is invulnerability as well correct :confused: ? Like you said, it was just an analogy of Flash's speed vs Supermans strength.

[carabas]

You can do a lot mor withsuperspeed than just hit someone the thousand times per second.

In theory, the Flash can throw a single punch that hits as hard as the best punch the Hulk ever threw.
If you move fast enough, speed starts to convert into extra mass, meaning that when you run at speeds approaching lightspeed, your mass approaches infinity. Which is one hell of a punch.

Both Hulk and Flash have a reservoir of limitles energy (respectively excessive moodiness and speed) that they can convert into really, really hard punches.

Of course, he The Flash has street-level rogues, so he rarely uses his powers to the fullest extent.

[ivesaidway2much]

You can do a lot mor withsuperspeed than just hit someone the thousand times per second.

In theory, the Flash can throw a single punch that hits as hard as the best punch the Hulk ever threw.
If you move fast enough, speed starts to convert into extra mass, meaning that when you run at speeds approaching lightspeed, your mass approaches infinity. Which is one hell of a punch.

Both Hulk and Flash have a reservoir of limitles energy (respectively excessive moodiness and speed) that they can convert into really, really hard punches.

Of course, he The Flash has street-level rogues, so he rarely uses his powers to the fullest extent.
Relativity can't exist in a superhero universe. There are way too many guys who can move faster than the speed of light. With relativity, the Earth would have been destroyed long(i.e. several nanoseconds) before the first guy with that kind of speed reached the speed of light. The Flash can only run really, really, really, really, really(you get the point) fast. Without the speed of light as limit, to have the infinite speed necessary for infinite mass the Flash would need to be going so fast that he existed at every point in the universe at one time(or something close to that).

Regardless, the advantage of superspeed for anyone is significantly negated when not in space. Unless a person has the Flash's crazy friction/speed canceling abilities he is essentially a running nuclear bomb. But then again Northstar hasn't killed everybody yet, so maybe that's not true either.

Irregardless, if X person is fighting Y person and X has superspeed, then X can get into an opportune/optimal position to attack Y so quickly that Y is toast.I don't get it what's the advantage of rabbit punching someone really fast? It seems to me that to get an offensive power boost from superspeed, someone would either need to run through their punches/kicks at high speed then come to a stop, pivot, and repeat or go really fast and stop at the last second to transfer all their kinetic energy into the punch/kick. Other than those, I can't think of any kind of an attack that would be more efficient than simply standing there and hitting the person as hard as you could

[Camron Amaya]

This is a stupid argument. It's not a WEAK speedster hitting him, it's a guy who's just as strong PLUS waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay faster.

What don't you get there?

Two Heavyweight boxers fighting, around the same strength, but one is infinitly faster.

Why are you understanding a "fast punch" as weak? Nobody said hit a bunch of super fast light taps. It's powerful AND fast. You're telling me,when I punch you from a standing still stance, and when I'm sling shotted at you fist first at 200 miles, it's weaker? Are you by any chance high? Lol.

Another thing that 2001 special you're all so fond of bringing up also showed that Mjolnir is superior to a Hulk fist when they hit eachother. In other words it's harder and more crushing. And when he did beat Thow down, nobody mentiones how Hulk completly suprised him from behind full force.

When it was fair and face to face and the Hulk was completly mindless, before he was banished by Strange, Thor didn't even have a scratch. Hulk was sent flying into the adamanitum statue and then Strange banished him.

All I'm saying is, it's not so one sided as Hulk fans make it to be.

[Desmodus]

Now you're just being argumenative.

Seeing as we're not in a rumble thread, I'll leave it alone. Oh, and to your point of Flash and Superman being a bad example, uh... one of Hulk's powers is invulnerability as well correct :confused: ? Like you said, it was just an analogy of Flash's speed vs Supermans strength.

Don't be so sensitive. I wasn’t being argumentative; I was putting forward my views on the topic.

True one of his powers is invulnerability but as Carabas has explained (and as I am completely unfamiliar with the nature of the Flash’s powers) The Flash versus Superman point is moot compared to the Sentry versus Hulk example because you comparing apples with oranges.

[ivesaidway2much]

Why are you understanding a "fast punch" as weak? Nobody said hit a bunch of super fast light taps. It's powerful AND fast. You're telling me,when I punch you from a standing still stance, and when I'm sling shotted at you fist first at 200 miles, it's weaker? Are you by any chance high? Lol.Actually if you read my post here: It seems to me that to get an offensive power boost from superspeed, someone would either need to run through their punches/kicks at high speed... You'll see I already explicitly agreed with that. But after the first attack a person would have to come to overcome their own momentum, come to a full stop, turn around, and do it again. It wouldn't be a nanosecond fight. Their opponent would probably even be able to see them at certain points in time. And the attacker would be defenseless while slowing down.

[Camron Amaya]

Actually if you read my post here: You'll see I already explicitly agreed with that. But after the first attack a person would have to come to overcome their own acceleration, come to a full stop, turn around, and do it again. It wouldn't be a nanosecond fight. Their opponent might even be able to see them at certain points.

Yes it's not aperfect strategy either, you're right, but all I'm saying is more then just