Wonder Woman #19: Discussion and Review Thread

[Binker]

by Nathaniel Ruff (aka Binker on Newsarama, and Nate on BYTB)

WONDER WOMAN #19

Written by Gail Simone
Art by Bernard Chang
Cover by Terry Dodson and Rachel Dodson
Edited by Matt Idelson

PLOT:
Spirited to the Khund home world, Wonder Woman finds herself in the unpopular position of having to defend one of the greatest scourges of the galaxy from the deserved wrath of many an angry race! What could possibly convince the Amazon princess to side with the enemy? You won't believe the answer! And who is the incredibly powerful DC figure that's trying to stop her?

REVIEW:
#18, part 1 of this two-parter, gave us another smart and exciting issue of Gail Simone's Wonder Woman. That issue introduced something that, yes it has been done before, but Gail did it this time deeply from Diana's character, and that was her proposed courtship toward Nemesis (or Tom). The main reason why I said it was deeply from Diana's character is because it is something that is from her Greek myth roots, and her Amazonian roots. There was no point in saying this, but it had to be said yet again: Gail knew (or knows) what she is doing. Yes, the main story of this was of Diana choosen to protect an alien race, that has had a past of not being so friendly, from an enemy that was revealed to be a Green Lantern. But that courtship proposal was big to us, and me, regardless. And that was what I wanted to know the conclusion of to. So finally, here is #19!

After reading this issue, my feelings were mixed, a first time from Gail's run. I had to read it again to try and balance out my feelings, and I think I got a mostly positive reaction. In picking one of the three words I use for my ratings, it would be the middle one: it was okay. Now let me explain; this issue continues with what Gail is trying to do with her run: have a Diana who is smart, and in everyway showcases her Greek myth, Amazonian roots in every issue. That's still here, so we’re all good on that. But, because of what I talked about mostly from my review on issue #18 with the courtship, I was expecting to learn more from that. And that was one of the things that made me sad about this issue: there wasn't a conclusion to Diana's proposed courtship towards Tom. What we do get from it is that we focus on Tom on how he feels toward the whole courtship thing, and on Diana herself. It was a good scene, but it was because I was expecting alot more that it made me dislike the issue the first time I read it. And at the end of it all, I felt empty and unresolved on the whole thing. Now, I know for absolute certainty that this will be resolved. Maybe in the next arc (we hope), or maybe in the upcoming event Dan Didio spoke of. But anyone who was expecting alot more of this would be disappointed. The issue was okay, and if I had to look at the two-parter as a whole, it was okay only overall.

Overall, this issue was okay to say the least. Gail still continues with the great things she wants to do with Diana, but it was the conclusion I wanted to see on that courtship from #18 that made me dislike this issue the first time because there wasn’t one. The entire two-parter itself is not bad, just okay. But I shouldn't be sad by any means, because that courtship thing will be resolved either in the next arc, or in that event via Dan's comments. Speaking of the next arc, which is something I wanted to read. Wonder Woman and Beowulf? We're diving back into the mythic elements since we left off in "The Circle"! See you next time, when we return with the big stories!

RATING: Okay

Next Issue: Barbarians at the gate!

[sschroeder]

But, because of what I talked about mostly from my review on issue #18 with the courtship, I was expecting to learn more from that. And that was one of the things that made me sad about this issue: there wasn't a conclusion to Diana's proposed courtship towards Tom. What we do get from it is that we focus on Tom on how he feels toward the whole courtship thing, and on Diana herself. It was a good scene, but it was because I was expecting alot more that it made me dislike the issue the first time I read it. And at the end of it all, I felt empty and unresolved on the whole thing. Now, I know for absolute certainty that this will be resolved.

Maybe some won't agree, but the hero's love life is a B plot in a superhero comic. It helps endear you to and keep interest with the character (or not, depending, of course), but it isn't the main story of most issues. Three pages devoted to Wonder Woman's Earth bound beau while she is off world adventuring was just about appropriate from my perspective. (Granted, I didn't read issue # 18.) I couldn't see her rushing back for a coda to play a scene on that front. The ending here was much better.

Of course, in a WW comic she finds a way to defeat a GL and give him advice. That's cool. She's a powerful character, so I don't have a problem with that necessarily. They matched up pretty well. I was happy to have a second GLC comic this week. Wouldn't mind seeing more GL in this comic, as I'll probably giving it more of a try (yet again) with Lopresti coming on board next issue over from Ms. Marvel.

[LittleMissVixen]

Another great issue from Gail. Wonder Woman is a must-read for me. I am enjoying the romantic subplot with Tom, and I enjoyed the face-off with the Lantern. I am exited to see Lopresti's artwork for the next arc.

[4thHorseman]

I found the issue incredibly boring. Art was bad, the inner monologue was bad, and similar to previous issues of WW by Gail, the action scenes are far too short for the threat at hand.

Only thing I liked about this issue was with Tom.

[rwe1138]

I love the idea of a Khund GL. I hope she shows up again.

[Hawkman]

I liked the issue on the whole, but one minor complaint is that I found Wonder Woman's inner-monologue during the battle somewhat odd. It sounded more like the way Batman or Deathstroke would think. I realize Diana's a warrior, and thus her thinking is probably very tactical, but it just felt a bit too robotic to me. I've not been a longtime reader of Wonder Woman, though, so perhaps there's some precedent for this that I'm not aware of.

Other than that, I felt the the issue was brief, but good. Nothing fantastic, mind you; the conclusion to what seems like a filler-arc more than anything else, really, but enjoyable nonetheless.

[Chiroptera]

I was disappointed in this one myself. I particularly didnt' like Wonder Woman's internal monologue. I liked it in the issues with the Circle but this time she almost seemed like she was going insane. Like she was narrating her own actions.

It didn't feel like we were just reading her thoughts, it felt like she was TELLING her thoughts to some nonexistant third party.

Ironically the part I liked most about this issue was the scenes with Nemesis.
The reason this is Ironic is that I despise hte character (And no, it wasn't just his WW appearances that I despised, I've hated him for a long while). But this issue was the first time ever where he felt like he was an actual person that I could believe had some decency and soul to him. Before now he always seemed like a cad to me.

Gail actually managed to give him some appeal to me for the first time, even in the Circle storyline his brief scenes still didn't make him appealing to me. In Issue 18 I still didn't think much of him.. This time? This time I liked him. It takes a LOT for me to acknowledge fondness for a character I've despised since the time he was created.

The rest of it just... I dunno. I guess Wonder woman and Sci-Fi didn't mesh well for me. And seeing two power houses duke it out has never been a big draw for me. I DID love Etta's talk with the ichor. "A lieutenant colonel must be a great thing indeed, small one." That was a very neat line. Liked that part.


But yeah. Over all this issue was rather disappointing for me. A let down since usually Wonder Woman's the comic I most look forward to each month.

[Christopher Cross Is God]

Gail actually managed to give him some appeal to me for the first time, even in the Circle storyline his brief scenes still didn't make him appealing to me. In Issue 18 I still didn't think much of him.. This time? This time I liked him. It takes a LOT for me to acknowledge fondness for a character I've despised since the time he was created.

So you hated Nemesis from the time he was in Suicide Squad and Brave & The Bold (Back in the 80's) until now? If so, how come?

[Chiroptera]

So you hated Nemesis from the time he was in Suicide Squad and Brave & The Bold (Back in the 80's) until now? If so, how come?

Whoo.. That's a long complex thing.
The big thing for me was that he came across as the sort of person who just couldn't figure out whether he wanted to be This, That, or The Something Else. One moment he was the loyal agent, the next he was in it all for his family (I believe it was his brother specifically if I recall correctly?), then he was more an aloof mercenary.
It really just came down to personal preference. I like characters that know who they are. It's why I like Batman and Catwoman so much. Catwoman is a cat, she has a set and solid personality and rarely questions her judgment or her instincts. Same with Batman. Their confidence and solidity makes them appeal to me. It's the same reason I loved Wonder Woman. And the reason I was so furious when they brought up the whole "who is Wonder Woman" bull crap with her relaunch.

I also just don't like his general attitude. He had a tendency toward either joking at a bad time, or just being a general smart ass. I had a friend like that for a very long time and he often got on my nerves. As a result I have a natural biased against any character that reminds me of that friend.

One moment in particular that most people seem to recall as funny and one that I found incredibly irritating was when he and Catwoman had teamed up. They've broken into some building I can't even remember what anymore. But they're in there, looking for something and in the midst of their search he finds a bra, and comments "Hey this is about your size, right?"
It just irked me. It's a personal pet peeve. Here he's supposed to be a professional and instead of getting in, getting what they came for and getting out, he piddles around make boob jokes.

It just irritated me. The same thing cropped up more recently in the Wonder Woman series. The whole birthmark thing.

The guy just pisses me off most of the time. When the idea that he and Diana might actually end up a couple cropped up I was ready to drop the book right there. I decided to give it a few issues. The Dodson's art kept me buying the book during Heinberg and Picoult's runs. I thought the stories were god awful but I loved the art work so I kept buying.
I wanted to see Lopresti's art and figured it might be worth keeping the book on my pull list just for that. But now... It might actually be worth keeping for the story to. If Gail can continue to warm me up to a character I despise so much.

[Kage Kisaragi]

So this arc is over, the artwork has been kind of eck, during some parts story. Yet withstandable. I like Gail writing and while this was just a short arc i don't really see what was wrong with it. I'd like to have seen a actual Ichor, just for visual reference sake. What the hell does something that is a blood relative to 100 worlds different gods look like?

All in all I said it was okay, liked the writing though I didn't care for the characters other than Diana. Artwork was more a give or take kind of thing.

[estee]

Fricken Yay, baby!!!

Wonder Woman is the best damn book DC is putting out. :smile:

[Pinnacle]

It was an okay issue. I'm not a huge fan of Wonder Woman and sci-fi as someone else stated in this thread. I like to see Wonder Woman as a warrior so I was okay with the fighting and I liked how she beat the GL by having stronger will power. I thought that was the logical way for the battle to be won. I like how it shows that any Green Lantern is extremely powerful but a select few could defeat one by breaking the GL's will as Diana did in this issue. I like to think of Diana as one of the few DC superheroes who can take down a GL. In fact, I think Diana could probably take down any GL but there's probably about a dozen that would bring her to the point of death in battle and possibly defeat her depending on the time and circumstance.

Does anyone know how the Khund was given a ring? Could the GL do that? I thought that would have to come from the Guardians. How can one become a GL simply due to a treaty?

[Robo Ape]

Best issue so far in that it was less boring than the rest of her run on the title. But she still doesn't write the character in a very interesting way.

[OzBat!]

I didn't mind not seeing what the ichor actually looked like, because from Etta's comments, it was going to come looking for Diana directly before too long. Foreboding Setup! Yayyy!

As for the GL thing, there's been plenty of precedents in past GL history of GLs duplicating their rings and deputising people, or even inviting them outright into the corps. And in the wake of the Sinestro War, I'm willing to bet the need is greater than almost any time in the past. There's questions of what the Guardians will think, or if Mogo would have directed a ring to any khunds, let alone her; and even if she passes those mustering points, there's no guarantee she'll pass basic training. But! That's half the fun of the scenario. I hope Geoff Johns or whoever's writing GLC gives us another look at her in the not-too-distant future, so we can see how she's faring.

[sschroeder]

Does anyone know how the Khund was given a ring? Could the GL do that? I thought that would have to come from the Guardians. How can one become a GL simply due to a treaty?

Note that the comic says, "Sometime later...," or something like that. This is a Wonder Woman comic, so I wouldn't necessarily expect to see all the GL related detail here. All the consulting with Salaak, etc. could have been done off screen. The rings can communicate at distance and travel without a bearer, so the GL wouldn't even have to go to Oa to get one.

As for whether this arrangement is feasible or has been done in the past, in Green Lantern Corps: Recharge, Vath and Isamot were chosen as potential sector partners despite the fact that they their respective races are enemies.

In GLC # 3, Natu, at Salaak's direction, presents a ring to her potential new sector partner Iolande instead of the usual ring fly in scene.

[BnL]

Best issue so far in that it was less boring than the rest of her run on the title. But she still doesn't write the character in a very interesting way.

Just out of curiosity, how would you prefer her to be written? And have you read much Wonder Woman in the past? Personally, I think Gail's really nailed the character, so I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from.

[Robo Ape]

Just out of curiosity, how would you prefer her to be written? And have you read much Wonder Woman in the past? Personally, I think Gail's really nailed the character, so I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from.

I have been reading the current version of the title since it started & read the previous series for 5 or 6 years. As I mentioned on another thread Jodi Picoult was the person I felt had done the best job on the title of the people who have worked on it of late.

[Kintales]

I like the part where Wondie won the fight with GL (but in danger of keeping the peace which means losing still), later chose a more diplomatic approach to solve the problem (even though she had to give in to quite a bit of physical bashing. Hmmm... which actually shows that she isn't that invulnerable without her bracelets). Like the continuation of her relationship with Nemesis as well.

Awesome writing by Gail. Hope she continues to introduce more supporting casts (old or new) and bring in new interesting villains.

[4thHorseman]

I like the part where Wondie won the fight with GL (but in danger of keeping the peace which means losing still), later chose a more diplomatic approach to solve the problem (even though she had to give in to quite a bit of physical bashing. Hmmm... which actually shows that she isn't that invulnerable without her bracelets). Like the continuation of her relationship with Nemesis as well.

Awesome writing by Gail. Hope she continues to introduce more supporting casts (old or new) and bring in new interesting villains.

See, I actually found a problem with this.

1. The fight was too short, similar to every other battle Gail has written during her run. She can fight a small horde of Khunds, they are taken out in like 4 panels pretty much. Against a green lantern? again, doesn't take very long.

2. The diplomatic scene kinda confuses me. Wonder Woman goes in, kinda eggs on the green lantern into a fight, then tries to be diplomatic about it? Why not just go in there with that mindset?

[Kintales]

1) Err.. an ok length of a fight for you would be (how many pages or panels)? Well, maybe Gail or the artist did not have so detailed a choregraphed fight scene planned out but put more emphasis on what it actually means or conveys.

2) Well, actually she did ask him to stand down. GL is too aggitated and all. Sometimes, the starting of a fight is inevitable. She allows him to let go of some steam, then showed him eventually that she actually has the ability to defeat him in a fight. :cool:

[4thHorseman]

1) Err.. an ok length of a fight for you would be (how many pages or panels)? Well, maybe Gail or the artist did not have so detailed a choregraphed fight scene planned out but put more emphasis on what it actually means or conveys.

I duno, it really depends. So far, she's beaten 4 Amazons who are considered top of their game within a couple pages. She took down a small fleet of Khund in similar time, and a Green Lantern. It seems no matter how serious the threat, it'll be taken out fairly quickly. And remember, some of these pages have panels consisting of her just grabbing a lasso or giving a glare. Not actual action, so you could say she does it in even less time.

2) Well, actually she did ask him to stand down. GL is too aggitated and all. Sometimes, the starting of a fight is inevitable. She allows him to let go of some steam, then showed him eventually that she actually has the ability to defeat him in a fight. :cool:

The way i read it, she didn't even go in there saying "I'm not here to fight, but if you want to, we will". It was more of her crushing his balls beneath her heel saying "Stand down. Don't fight a battle you cannot win". Saying that to a warrior will ultimately lead to violence, and for someone trying to be diplomatic, I think she could have at least made a better attempt at first to make peace.

[Black Atom]

Have to agree with 4th Horseman's points. I think one of the reasons the current WW book comes off as boring or unremarkable is because there's no sense of danger in any fight Diana's been in so far. It's really felt like "Look how easily Diana takes out these super-gorillas/super-nazis/rogue Amazons/Khunds" or other bad guys that, generally, shouldn't be a match for her anyway. Having her go up against a GL was a good move, but again, despite what her narrative captions said, I never felt like she was actually in any trouble. The Circle, which I really liked as it built up, fizzled out by pitting Diana against villains she should've been able to take out easily.

I've been re-reading the Messner-Loebs/Deodato Jr. issues of WW (which are some of my favorite) and there's something simplistic and enjoyable about them that's been missing from the book for years. Part of it, in my opinion, is the shifting emphasis on Diana as a warrior rather than a superhero, which
is far less interesting to me. It's led to the return of the awful stilted dialog and boring, stiff charactarization from the Perez era, only enhanced with narrative captions that show how much of cool, calculating warrior Diana is. Boring.

The book has become exactly what I feared--more concerned with making Diana out to be this awesome warrior instead of just having good, fun stories.

[princesa]

I am a WW fan and a Gail fan...but I am not feeling Tom at all, not one little bit. I was hoping she'd lose him when she took over. Also I think WW smashes GL's in WW.

[mgs]

Have to agree with 4th Horseman's points. I think one of the reasons the current WW book comes off as boring or unremarkable is because there's no sense of danger in any fight Diana's been in so far. It's really felt like "Look how easily Diana takes out these super-gorillas/super-nazis/rogue Amazons/Khunds" or other bad guys that, generally, shouldn't be a match for her anyway. Having her go up against a GL was a good move, but again, despite what her narrative captions said, I never felt like she was actually in any trouble. The Circle, which I really liked as it built up, fizzled out by pitting Diana against villains she should've been able to take out easily.
</p>
I disagree with those who've stated that the dialogue and action in this issue were bad. I liked it overall and I think Gail is doing wonders with the character and pace of the book. That said, I have to say, on this front. A one-on-one with a GL, for me, I would've thought that would be a fast fight. She takes em out fast. I don't see any GL's being able to handle her one-on-one in a fight. That was the one thing in the comic that made me a bit :confused: .

As for the original posters' remark about the love substory, I think it was fine to put that on hold for this issue, I mean a lot was going on, and really, she was taken off world so to conclude the issue so quickly would disrupt the story overall, imo.

It seems some people who are not liking the direction of the comic for mixing the sci-fi elements into the comic are just denying the world in which WW lives. Sure, some myth stories are enjoyable, but to appreciate her character, I think you have to look at the bigger picture she plays in the DCU.