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Joosteh
04-09-2008, 12:39 PM
Ive always wondered: which mutant is the oldest mutant in the Marvel Universe?
Is it Selene? Or Apocalypse? Or someone else? Ive searched the internet but different sites give me different answers... a little help here? :eek:

Beast
04-09-2008, 12:42 PM
It's Selene. She was active during the Hyborian (Conan) era, which is before Apocalypse's time.

corporategohan
04-09-2008, 12:44 PM
Ive always wondered: which mutant is the oldest mutant in the Marvel Universe?
Is it Selene? Or Apocalypse? Or someone else? Ive searched the internet but different sites give me different answers... a little help here? :eek:

Recorded MU History? Selene probably. She was around during the hayday of Kulan Gath/Conan/Kull.

Apoc arose during Egypt's era.

I also think Gateway is up there in age also..

Could be wrong though :)

Joosteh
04-09-2008, 12:57 PM
Gateway? Really? How can you tell? Ive always thought he was like... 80 or something :tongue:

Nefarius
04-09-2008, 01:15 PM
Selene is the oldest one.She was born during Hyboria Age long before our known history of mankind.

Joe Acro
04-09-2008, 01:33 PM
Apocalypse.

No, wait, I haven't gotten to tell that story yet...

Monty_Cristo
04-09-2008, 01:36 PM
i think Apocalypse outlives Selene, so i'll go with him.

mikekerr3
04-09-2008, 01:41 PM
Gateway? Really? How can you tell? Ive always thought he was like... 80 or something :tongue:

Don't have the Issue anyome but I think he dates from the "dream Time" 50K years or so ago.

K Von Doom
04-09-2008, 03:38 PM
Thanos is a mutant right? He's pretty old.

DDM
04-09-2008, 04:05 PM
i think Apocalypse outlives Selene, so i'll go with him.

Selene pre-dates Apocalypse. She was ancient in the Hyborian Era; whereas, Apocalypse's origin is in ancient Egypt.

The oldest mutant may be the Shadow King.

Historically, it's Namor.

rwe1138
04-09-2008, 07:54 PM
Thanos is a mutant right? He's pretty old.

He's an Eternal from Titan with a genetic quirk that makes him look more like a Deviant. Whole 'nother ballpark.

Titanium
04-09-2008, 07:57 PM
You'd think the Hyborian Age would happen at the same time as the Ancient Egyptian age, just in different locations.

rwsmith
04-09-2008, 08:10 PM
Romulus from Loeb's Wolverine arc. He was there before the dawn of homo sapiens.

Though I suppose he and all of the feral mutants are actually from a separate branch of the evolutionary tree, so they're actually mutated lupus sapiens whereas Apocalypse and Selene are mutated homo sapiens. I wonder if there are a bunch of humans out there who are also descended from lupus sapiens, but who aren't mutants? More likely there are just a handful of descendants who bred with normal homo sapiens and carried the genes or something.

I sure wish Loeb would've bothered to explain this whole concept a little more? :confused:

mikekerr3
04-09-2008, 08:11 PM
You'd think the Hyborian Age would happen at the same time as the Ancient Egyptian age, just in different locations.


Howards Hyborian age was before the continents split. Loved those books when I was little. The books had maps

da gooch
04-10-2008, 08:06 PM
but is the age of conan considered canon?

Beast
04-10-2008, 08:10 PM
but is the age of conan considered canon?
Has to be, considering Kulen Gath is still around and still ties to that era.

mikekerr3
04-10-2008, 08:12 PM
but is the age of conan considered canon?

The Hyborian age is a creation o Robert E, Howard and predates Marvel.it marvel uses it it means what Howard wrote it to mean, or the are just ignorant enough to use the wrong word.

Expletive Deleted
04-10-2008, 11:52 PM
The Hyborian age is a creation o Robert E, Howard and predates Marvel.it marvel uses it it means what Howard wrote it to mean, or the are just ignorant enough to use the wrong word.They're using it correctly. When Marvel had the license for Conan, they incorporated him and his world into the prehistory of the Marvel Universe.

I have no basis for this, but I'm willing to bet that was Roy Thomas's idea.

Cthulhudrew
04-11-2008, 12:27 AM
I think that Selene is the oldest, but the closest second would be the Maha Yogi/Merlin (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/merlinds.htm) (and he might actually be older, I'm not certain.)

Loki
04-11-2008, 01:26 AM
I think that Selene is the oldest, but the closest second would be the Maha Yogi/Merlin (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/merlinds.htm) (and he might actually be older, I'm not certain.)

He might pre-date Selene, but he isn't a mutant.

Cthulhudrew
04-11-2008, 04:05 AM
He might pre-date Selene, but he isn't a mutant.

He was at one point. That may have changed.

The Lucky One
04-11-2008, 12:27 PM
i think Apocalypse outlives Selene, so i'll go with him.

The Hyborian Age was circa 14,000-10,000 years ago, and Apocalypse was born about 3,000 years ago in ancient Egypt, so if Selene died tomorrow, he'd have to live another 7,000-11,000 years just to equal her.

Not impossible, but considering how often he gets his ass kicked, I have my doubts.

-D

Loki
04-11-2008, 01:07 PM
He was at one point. That may have changed.

As noted in the Appendix entry:

"Many of his incarnations have been referred to as mutants, but, as revealed in Dr. Strange III#27, he was actually mutated by outside means."

Green Goblin 4
04-12-2008, 12:37 AM
He's an Eternal from Titan with a genetic quirk that makes him look more like a Deviant. Whole 'nother ballpark.

He's a Mutant Eternal from Titan. Eternals are originally from Earth and moved to Titan. Therefore he is a mutant. Selene's still older though.

Ite
04-15-2008, 12:50 AM
Didn't they used to say that Namor was Marvel's first mutant?

Kage Kisaragi
04-15-2008, 05:04 AM
Apocalypse.

No, wait, I haven't gotten to tell that story yet...


Don't have the Issue anyome but I think he dates from the "dream Time" 50K years or so ago.


These two post are the most interesting ones thus far, would either of the posters care to elaborate?

carabas
04-15-2008, 05:23 AM
Didn't they used to say that Namor was Marvel's first mutant?First mutant that ever saw print (even though his mutantiness was reconned in IIRC). Not the first mutant from the perspective of the Marvel Universe.

Gnarl
04-15-2008, 01:02 PM
He's a Mutant Eternal from Titan. Eternals are originally from Earth and moved to Titan. Therefore he is a mutant. Selene's still older though.

Gaimans "Eternals" established that Eternals do not have children, and they are all 500 000 years old. How this affects Thanos, I have absolutly no idea.

RonnieThunderbolts
04-15-2008, 01:11 PM
He's a Mutant Eternal from Titan. Eternals are originally from Earth and moved to Titan. Therefore he is a mutant. Selene's still older though.

He's not a Mutant. Originating on Earth doesn't change the fact that Eternals evolved in a DIFFERENT direction than Mutants, and that Marvel Mutants have a common genetic catalyst for their mutations called the "X-Gene," and that Thanos DOESN'T have the X-Gene. He is a mutant, yes, but not in the same sense that the X-Men, Apocalypse, Franklin Richards and Selene have all been established to be Mutants, a separate and distinct offshoot of humanity. Humans or any species can have extra chromosomes or, be missing chromosomes, and be considered mutants in both the real world and the Marvel Universe, like Thanos, or anyone born with an aberration or mutation, like a sixth finger or any form of polymelia. The X-Men are a specific "Homo Sapiens Superior" species, and unrelated to Thanos.


Gaimans "Eternals" established that Eternals do not have children, and they are all 500 000 years old. How this affects Thanos, I have absolutly no idea.

Those are the Earthbound, not Titanian Eternals. Their colonials on Titan aren't quite infertile, and in the past they've always had both a low birth rate and a lack of any Eternal offspring or hybrids with Human interbreeding, only normal, unpowered human progeny.

Frank
04-16-2008, 07:56 PM
I don't know if Selene is the oldest but somehow I doubt the first mutant came from Conan's times. Since the Eternals created the source for potential in humans to be mutants when they played with monkeys, there must have been mutants with the first homo sapiens. Only those stories have yet been told.

Kage Kisaragi
04-16-2008, 09:27 PM
I don't know if Selene is the oldest but somehow I doubt the first mutant came from Conan's times. Since the Eternals created the source for potential in humans to be mutants when they played with monkeys, there must have been mutants with the first homo sapiens. Only those stories have yet been told.

now thats a interesting theory.

Jdv011
12-23-2008, 03:04 PM
Okay.....

Marvel has cleared up this issue OFFICIALLY for a long time.

During the Xorn saga, a teacher is presenting a lesson for class.

Her question is exactly how it was phrased for this thread.
"Who is the oldest mutant?"

A smart-alec kid response....
(insert drumroll here...)

Prince Namor!

Then something else happens and it goes onto another scene
....
Anyway,

Apocolypse was revealed to have mutanted by artifical means.

The theory is that Selene is not as old as she claims to be, go to marvel.com and do a search on her. It will tell you that she only claims to have been around since the age of conan.

key word = claims.

I am sure some other x-nut knows more about this subject than me and it's possible the x-canon has changed much since the Xorn saga, but I am sure that the X-Men wouldn't be teaching it their school as a fact if they weren't pretty convinced.

Beast
12-23-2008, 04:26 PM
Bzzt. Wrong. Apocalypse was born a mutant. Namor's Marvel's First Mutant Character.

However, the "1st Mutant" status he has in the comics, is because he was the first PUBLIC Mutant.

ComiXFanBoy
12-23-2008, 05:03 PM
First mutant that ever saw print (even though his mutantiness was reconned in IIRC). Not the first mutant from the perspective of the Marvel Universe.
it was retconned in x-men #6. the first time marvel called a character a mutant was in amazing adult fantasy #15

The Lucky One
12-23-2008, 06:50 PM
Seriously? There's still a debate over this? It's Selene. (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Selene_Gallio_(Earth-616)) It's one thing to like Apocalypse, but he's just not the oldest. Kulan Gath, who we know for a fact has been around since the age of Conan, has referred to Selene as his ancient enemy from that time. And she's a mutant. Case closed. Until Marvel unveils an even older mutant, she's it.

-D

Monty_Cristo
12-23-2008, 07:05 PM
Seriously? There's still a debate over this? It's Selene. (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Selene_Gallio_(Earth-616)) It's one thing to like Apocalypse, but he's just not the oldest. Kulan Gath, who we know for a fact has been around since the age of Conan, has referred to Selene as his ancient enemy from that time. And she's a mutant. Case closed. Until Marvel unveils an even older mutant, she's it.

-D

is the case closed? she seems to just be a vampiric sorceress, especially since the X-ternals stuff was swept under the rug.

Flâneur
12-23-2008, 07:13 PM
There's no real argument whatsoever.

Selene -> well over ten thousand years ago.
Apocalypse -> three thousand years ago
Exodus/Saul -> nine hundred years ago.
Gideon/Candra -> several hundred years ago.
Wolverine -> two hundred years ago.
Mystique/Absalom -> over a hundred and twenty years ago, true age unknown.
Destiny -> over a hundred years ago.


There might be a few missing and I don't know where to place Namor/Namora (probably with Destiny) but that's pretty much the scale. Selene is far older than every single other mutant on that list combined.

Monty_Cristo
12-23-2008, 07:36 PM
There's no real argument whatsoever.

Selene -> well over ten thousand years ago.
Apocalypse -> three thousand years ago
Exodus/Saul -> nine hundred years ago.
Gideon/Candra -> several hundred years ago.
Wolverine -> two hundred years ago.
Mystique/Absalom -> over a hundred and twenty years ago, true age unknown.
Destiny -> over a hundred years ago.


There might be a few missing and I don't know where to place Namor/Namora (probably with Destiny) but that's pretty much the scale. Selene is far older than every single other mutant on that list combined.

how old is Elias Bogan?

Flâneur
12-23-2008, 07:39 PM
how old is Elias Bogan?
As old as Claremont's S&M domination fetish.

Monty_Cristo
12-23-2008, 08:00 PM
As old as Claremont's S&M domination fetish.

so ancient, then. :biggrin:

chaosakita
12-23-2008, 09:07 PM
It's Selene. She was active during the Hyborian (Conan) era, which is before Apocalypse's time.

Wait, Age of Conan is still canon in the Marvel Universe.

That's kind of discouraging to me.

Lonewolf36
12-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Here is one that fits in the category of one of the oldest.

Forever Man http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/forevermanhardy.htm