Batman: The Brave And The Bold Animated Series

[ZT4]

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/bravebold/media/gallery/t-01.jpg


Cartoon Network announced their plans for the 2008-2009 television season, including early details on the new Batman: The Brave and The Bold animated series. The show, scheduled to premiere fall 2008, is greenlit for at least 26 half-hour episodes. Batman: The Brave and The Bold is set to carry both new character designs and a mix of voice talent both familiar and new to The Dark Knight.

Cartoon Network provided the following description of the series, as seen below.

Batman isn't going at it alone this time! From Warner Bros. Animation comes the latest interpretation of the Batman franchise. Our caped crusader is teamed up with heroes from across the DC Universe, delivering nonstop action and adventures with a touch of comic relief. Blue Beetle, Green Arrow, Aquaman and countless others will get a chance to uphold justice alongside Batman. Though still based in Gotham, Batman will frequently find himself outside city limits, facing situations that are both unfamiliar and exhilarating. With formidable foes around every corner, Batman will still rely on his stealth, resourcefulness and limitless supply of cool gadgets to bring justice home.

James Tucker and Linda M. Steiner will produce, with Sam Register acting as executive producer. Michael Jelenic will handle story editor duties. Other creators include line producer Amy McKenna, story editor Michael Jelenic and directors Ben Jones, Brandon Vietti and Michael Chang.

Batman: The Brave and The Bold is scheduled to air on Fridays this fall. More details on the new animated series will be announced shortly.


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=115

Transformers Animated worked combining the goofy humour with action/adventure, and it'll fit Blue Beetle's style tremendously well, no wonder he was included.

[Sean Walsh]

That Batman looks like the one from the new DC Super Friends toy line.

And hey, James Tucker's involved. So this has a chance of being good. :)

[Sean Whitmore]

That Batman looks like the one from the new DC Super Friends toy line.

I was just thinking that too.



And hey, James Tucker's involved. So this has a chance of being good. :)

A part of me hopes I don't like it. Then I won't have to be the one saying, "It's pretty good" for the next few years in the face of: "It's not the Timm version! Hssssssssssss!"


SEAN

[PamGrierOverdrive]

Wow, I wonder if they'll get Adam West and Casey Kasem to do voices. Maybe than can include a public service announcement for the kids at the end of each episode.

[DonC]

You're a couple days late for April Fool's Day.

[Utility Belt]

The Brave and the Bold is hands down my favorite comic book series of all time. I'm really thrilled that it will be made as an animated show. The above post states that there will be at least 26 episodes which means will see at least 26 different DC characters make an appearance.
One of the cool things about the comic series was that we got a chance to see lesser known DC heroes like The Demon or The Creeper team up with Batman, I hope the cartoon follows this trend.

[TheAmazingSpidey]

I don't even know how to feel about this. Really.

[The Batman]

With the exception of thos red eyes, that animated Blue Beetle looks rad.

My reaction to this promo art was similar to my reaction to Transformers: Animated. If they can at least match that level of entertainment then this should be alright I guess.

[Tetsuo_man]

If batman is played as the straight man in the comedy i'll be ok. Art style while it does remind me of the superfriends comic/toyline it also reminds me of early dick sprang.

[Captain Jim]

Batman should be a loner.

[metalhead_dave743]

That's gotta be the worst frigging drawing of Batman I've ever seen. This makes "The Batman" look scary and "Superfriends" look serious.

[rick]

It looks like an enjoyable little cartoon.

I am interested in finding out about voice talent though.

[Sean Whitmore]

It looks like an enjoyable little cartoon.

I am interested in finding out about voice talent though.

I've got it on good authority that Black Lightning, Steel, Mr. Terrific, Cyborg, and Amazing Man will be voiced by Phil Lamarr.


SEAN

[mattx110]

It looks cool. I doubt I'll ever watch it, but it looks cool.;)

[Batman was taken]

They just keep pushing the target markets age bracket down further and further with those character designs...

[ponset]

I like the art designs.
Batman kind of looks like he was drawn by Dick Strang. :D

[Hawkman]

The character designs are awful in my opinion, especially Batman, but then again I thought the same thing when I saw the first promotional art for Spectacular Spider-Man, and I'm loving that show. And I don't even like Spider-Man!

So while this doesn't really do much for me, I'm not going to call it crap before I've seen it. I doubt the designs will grow on me no matter what, but if the animation is fluid and the episodes entertaining while staying true to the characters--like Spectacular Spider-Man--then I'll be happy.

Either way, though, I doubt WB cares one way or other, as a 26-year old guy is hardly their target demo for this series, I'm sure.

[Froggy]

Blue Beetle!

SWEEEEEEEEET

[vazel]

Wow, these cartoons just keep exclusively aiming younger and younger don't they. What happened to the kind of cartoons they used to make in the '90s that appealed to mature persons too. Why did they stop making them like that. It's not like they tanked. ExoSquad, Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, and X-Men were popular and made a killing on merchandising. Batman even received critical acclaim from respected sources not just fanboy outlets.

[Sean Whitmore]

What happened to the kind of cartoons they used to make in the '90s that appealed to mature persons too. Why did they stop making them like that.

They didn't.

Legion of Superheroes, Spectacular Spider-Man, Ninja Turtles, and X-Men Evolution all appeal(ed) to the older crowd to an extent. And though I've not seen them, other toons like Avatar and the new Transformers have their share of older fans as well. Remember, just because you might not like some of them, doesn't necessarily mean they failed to appeal to adults.

There are also new X-Men and Iron Man toons coming out. And I think I'm allowed to count them as good based on the character designs since we're already counting Brave and the Bold as bad for the same reason.


SEAN

[Nics23]

I am not a fan of the art they way it looks so far but I will hold off until I see the show. Brave and bold is a great comic so the show should be pretty good I am hoping.

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

The trick here is how well they ride the edge between whimsy and the kind of real action/adventure that comics fans crave. Plus, it looks like some rarely exposed characters are finally getting a spotlight, which can only be a good thing.

It's got potential.

[Joe Acro]

They look like over-sized action figures that are normally given to young children. Almost like Stretch Armstrong, but shorter.

If nothing else, though, this might boost some interesting Blue Beetle.


---
Stretch Armstrong stretches!

[The Xenos]

What the flying blue f--- is this?

It's like the 60s Batman with Silver Age Green Arrow... and the modern Blue Bettle? What drugs were they on when they thought up this cartoon?

They seem to be mixing apples and oranges. Hell, I'd be glad to see Jamie, the new Beetle in a cartoon, but... this doesn't make sense! Hell, if they wanted a fun cartoon, go make the old Justice League International with Ted's Blue Beetle and that more fun cast. This is just a giant mess.

[vazel]

They didn't.

Legion of Superheroes, Spectacular Spider-Man, Ninja Turtles, and X-Men Evolution all appeal(ed) to the older crowd to an extent. And though I've not seen them, other toons like Avatar and the new Transformers have their share of older fans as well. Remember, just because you might not like some of them, doesn't necessarily mean they failed to appeal to adults.
SEANThe only one of those that qualifies is Ninja Turtles(except when they changed it to Fast Forward) due to it being more faithful to the comics. X-Men Evolution is an honorable mention. Cartoons have just become too lighthearted and childish with no depth. I understand when someone watches something for cheap fun but to say most of these cartoons we're getting nowadays are good is bullshit. Although I wouldn't expect anyone that considers the '90s X-Men and Spider-Man cartoons mediocre and has fanatically defended The Batman to know what good cartoons are.

[Sean Whitmore]

The only one of those that qualifies is Ninja Turtles

They all qualify. Repeat after me...Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they don't appeal to older viewers.



I understand when someone watches something for cheap fun but to say these are good cartoons is bullshit.

Says the guy who holds up the 90's Spider-Man cartoon as a gold standard.



Although I wouldn't expect anyone that considers the '90s X-Men and Spider-Man cartoons mediocre

And they were. Mediocre to bad.

Don't get me wrong, I liked them when I was a child. Take off your nostalgia-tinted glasses and try rewatching them.


SEAN

[Astonishing X-Fan]

The 90s X-Men and Spidey shows don't hold up very well.

Absolutely nothing has held a candle to the Timmverse. BTAS, STAS, batman beyond, JL, and JLU form the holy quintette of superhero animation.

[Sean Whitmore]

Absolutely nothing has held a candle to the Timmverse. BTAS, STAS, batman beyond, JL, and JLU form the holy quintette of superhero animation.

The Timm stuff is truly a cut above the rest. Five years from now, we're still gonna be saying, "This is good, but it's no B:TAS."

Though I'm tempted to say Gargoyles was my favorite from the time period. Depends what day you catch me on.


SEAN

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Oh yeah, Gargoyles was awesome.

I'm still waiting for the second half of season two to come out.

[Sean Whitmore]

Oh yeah, Gargoyles was awesome.

I'm still waiting for the second half of season two to come out.

Hey, from your mouth to God's ears.


SEAN

[vazel]

They all qualify. Repeat after me...Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they don't appeal to older viewers.Nope, sorry. It's not just me. They just don't write them like they used to. And another big gripe I have with modern toons is the music. It's gotten so generic and doesn't set the mood at all.


Says the guy who holds up the 90's Spider-Man cartoon as a gold standard.
Spider-Man is actually my least favorite of the '90s toons. But Spider-Man still beats the pants off most modern toons.

And they were. Mediocre to bad.
Wow, you like the new toons but call X-Men mediocre to bad. X-Men was practically a translation of the comics.


Don't get me wrong, I liked them when I was a child. Take off your nostalgia-tinted glasses and try rewatching themI still have the cartoons and watch them every now and then. They're still as good as ever. Newer =! better.

[Sean Whitmore]

Nope, sorry. It's not just me.

I don't mean to imply that it's just you, I'm speaking generally. If me and three friends didn't like Batman Begins (hypothetically) because it's not our preferred take on the story, does that mean the movie failed to appeal to men in their late 20s? (Hint: no)



X-Men was practically a translation of the comics.

Yeah, but mostly the worst years of the comics.

To be fair, it's possible I'm being a little hard on X-Men. It's just that I remember the annoying parts (the Gambit/Rogue crap, Storm's horrible speeches, the odd use of certain characters) a lot better than I do the good parts.


SEAN

[vazel]

I don't mean to imply that it's just you, I'm speaking generally. If me and three friends didn't like Batman Begins (hypothetically) because it's not our preferred take on the story, does that mean the movie failed to appeal to men in their late 20s? (Hint: no)But you see Batman Begins had good characterization, story, and undeniably all around good directing. Even with movies I don't subjectively like I can still recognize if it was well written. These newer cartoons have childish scripts that only seem to serve the purpose of providing enough content to get the episodes ordered over with.

Yeah, but mostly the worst years of the comics.
That is bull. The series had every popular arc from the comics in it.

[Bat-Reader]

.... :mad:

Are they serius... ?!?! what the hack is that... it looks terrible. That smilly boy blue thing in the center... it's terrible. Kids are not that much of brain damaged that the poeple made this piece of crap thinks. They deserve another Batman tas quality cartoon. You moron wb.

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

If thats Jaime under that suit then I'm so there.

Anything that gives him more face time is a-okay in my book.

[Starba]

I think they had a good idea putting Jaime in there. Blue Beetle animated FTW.

Retro Batman and Green Arrow? *sigh*

I don't know who this is supposed to appeal to. I mean, it's on Friday nights on Cartoon Network. Is that really when kids and pre-teens are watching TV by themselves? I mean, I watched TV on Friday nights, but it was usually with my family, so cartoons were out of the question. Maybe family viewing habits have changed a lot since the days of TGIF, tho.

[rick]

But you see Batman Begins had good characterization, story, and undeniably all around good directing. Even with movies I don't subjectively like I can still recognize if it was well written. These newer cartoons have childish scripts that only seem to serve the purpose of providing enough content to get the episodes ordered over with.
That is bull. The series had every popular arc from the comics in it.



Just to jump in, I absolutly hated Batman Begins.

I thought it was duller then watching paint dry and the guy playing Batman had all the personality of a brick.

Now oddly enough, there are all sorts of poeple out there who don't agree and who somehow think that awful movie was good.

Oh my God, does that mean that there is such a thing as personal opinions about entertainment that are equally valid even though they don't agree?

[The Xenos]

I think they had a good idea putting Jaime in there. Blue Beetle animated FTW.

Retro Batman and Green Arrow? *sigh*
If thats Jaime under that suit then I'm so there.

Anything that gives him more face time is a-okay in my book.

Yeah, Jamie in a cartoon is cool. Yet mixing it with retro Batman and GA makes not a lick of sense. Jamie is a current character. Why not have him mixing it up with current versions of all the DC character. Hell, that would had been a perfect introduction. Jamie is a newbie to the DC. A good way to introduce the general audience to characters they might not know.

[vazel]

Just to jump in, I absolutly hated Batman Begins.

I thought it was duller then watching paint dry and the guy playing Batman had all the personality of a brick.

Now oddly enough, there are all sorts of poeple out there who don't agree and who somehow think that awful movie was good.

Oh my God, does that mean that there is such a thing as personal opinions about entertainment that are equally valid even though they don't agree?Regardless of wether you subjectively liked the movie or not if you can not at least see that Batman Begins was well directed by Christopher Nolan then you have all the artistic sense of a five year old and cartoons like The Batman would be better off for you.

[The Batman]

I dunno, I think that if someone thought the movie was dreadfully dull that they'd probably not think the director did their job well and still have something more than the artistic sense of a five-year old.

I though Batman Begins was alright at best. The movie had some real flaws, the biggest for me being its wildly uneven tone and the fact that it turned Batman into someone without much ambition who had to be led by the hand through his entire origin. Nolan seemed, at times, to be too interested in grounding Batman in reality and explaining away everything that he forgot to have fun and let the character be a little bit fantastic and mysterious. The Batman, for all its flaws at least got that much right.

I know I've got something more than the artistic sense of a five-year old. I've at least got the good sense to understand subjectivity and to not complain that a cartoon for kids is only as good and sophisticated as a cartoon for kids.

[Sean Whitmore]

if you can not at least see that Batman Begins was well directed by Christopher Nolan then you have all the artistic sense of a five year old

Did what rick said hurt your feelings SOOOO bad that you have to resort to insults?

We're talking about movies and cartoons, for pete's sake. Try not to take it so personally.


SEAN

[vazel]

Did what rick said hurt your feelings SOOOO bad that you have to resort to insults?

We're talking about movies and cartoons, for pete's sake. Try not to take it so personally.


SEANLook who's talking considering how heated up you get (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=173359&page=4) about defending modern cartoons.

But yea that five year old thing could've been worded better.
I dunno, I think that if someone thought the movie was dreadfully dull that they'd probably not think the director did their job well and still have something more than the artistic sense of a five-year old.

I though Batman Begins was alright at best. The movie had some real flaws, the biggest for me being its wildly uneven tone and the fact that it turned Batman into someone without much ambition who had to be led by the hand through his entire origin. Nolan seemed, at times, to be too interested in grounding Batman in reality and explaining away everything that he forgot to have fun and let the character be a little bit fantastic and mysterious. The Batman, for all its flaws at least got that much right.

Even when I don't like a movie due to the casting or story or dialogue I can still recognize when it was well directed. I can separate subjectivity and quality. I can recognize when there is merit to the acting/cinematography/story/dialogue but it just wasn't to my taste.
I know I've got something more than the artistic sense of a five-year old. I've at least got the good sense to understand subjectivity and to not complain that a cartoon for kids is only as good and sophisticated as a cartoon for kids.If you look at my past posts I've always recognized this. I understand that any mature qualities cartoons aimed at kids may have is extra and not necessary to the one's producing it considering who the prime demographics are. What I complain about is that things don't have to be like that as cartoons from the '90s proved.

[vazel]

Ugh, this is like the 3rd argument I'm in right now on forums. Doesn't help my mood at all. I guess I just need to learn when to drop things even when I feel I'm in the right. Arguments on forums just basically repeat the same things over and over anyway with no ego willing to yield to the other. Go ahead and have the last word people I'm done.

And Rick sorry I really do feel bad about that five year old comment.

[Sean Whitmore]

Look who's talking considering how heated up you get (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=173359&page=4) about defending modern cartoons.

To be fair, that first post was more because I hated that guy. He was a racist, sexist jerk who's since been banned.

And the rest of them, well, I was talking to you, and you push buttons.


SEAN

[The Batman]

But yea that five year old thing could've been worded better.
Even when I don't like a movie due to the casting or story or dialogue I can still recognize when it was well directed. I can separate subjectivity and quality. I can recognize when there is merit to the acting/cinematography/story/dialogue but it just wasn't to my taste.


If the story sucks, the casting sucks, and the dialogue sucks exactly what is there to make the movie well directed?

Are we just talking about the movie looking cool?



If you look at my past posts I've always recognized this. I understand that any mature qualities cartoons aimed at kids may have is extra and not necessary to the one's producing it considering who the prime demographics are. What I complain about is that things don't have to be like that as cartoons from the '90s proved.

Not really. All the 90's cartoons showed us was that the Timm cartoon was really the exception that proved the rule and even then I'm not so sure. I think that Fox/WB knew the show skewed a little older (12+) and were okay with that. I think that's why they tried to push the show as a primetime thing for a bit and made it part of their sunday night line-up.

[rick]

Regardless of wether you subjectively liked the movie or not if you can not at least see that Batman Begins was well directed by Christopher Nolan then you have all the artistic sense of a five year old and cartoons like The Batman would be better off for you.


Ah well, guess I should take down the Truffaut poster then?

[rick]

And Rick sorry I really do feel bad about that five year old comment.

That's fine actually.

There's some films I get worked up about too.

[OverMaster]

This thing will either be saved or damned by writing quality. If they combine those goofy designs with good writing, we'll have another Samurai Jack. Otherwise, we'll just end up with an even lamer The Batman.

[carabas]

If the story sucks, the casting sucks, and the dialogue sucks exactly what is there to make the movie well directed?Script and casting generally are not part of a director's job description.

[The Batman]

Script and casting generally are not part of a director's job description.

Yet directors can still be rather hands on in those areas. We don't need to look any further than Chris Nolan for an example of this.

Just because it's not technically a part of their job it doesn't mean it's not still something they can be involved in and held accountable for.

[Sean Whitmore]

Script and casting generally are not part of a director's job description.

Choosing how much of the script gets thrown out the window during the filming process is absolutely part of the director's job description.


SEAN

[mattx110]

Choosing how much of the script gets thrown out the window during the filming process is absolutely part of the director's job description.


SEAN
At a certain point, the director might go... "well, this scene sucks, but it's where johnny dies, and there's no other way to explain why johnny's not in the rest of the film...

OK, everyone look perturbed and ACTION!"

[Reptisaurus!]

Hmm. I really like the comic series (the old school Haney/Aparo version, at least) but this does seem like it skews towards younger children.

Good. :)

There are many, many more seven year old Batman fans than 30 year olds like me, and I'm glad to see 'em enjoying some of the same Superfriends-y stuff I did when I was a sprout.

And, honestly, I don't care much for cartoons at all these days.

(OK, except for Gargoyles. Which is pretty awesome. And Bugs Bunny and the Pink Panther, of course. And stuff like Waking Life. And....)

[The Xenos]

I can't tell what the hell they're doing. They call this title Brave and the Bold. That seems like it fits at least a slightly older teen audience. Instead the designs look like they're for young grade schoolers and pre teens.

Hell, the desgins look more like this kiddie fare comic.
http://www.dccomics.com/dckids/?action=comics&i=9022

Where the hell is the mature cartoon that kids can watch with their parents? It's like the cartoons have been devolving since Batman: TAS. Skewing younger and younger, becoming more and more unrecognizable.

Not that I thought they were that bad, but this so far looks worse than The Batman and Teen Titans.

[TMM Writes Lego]

o this is why the batman was cancled! Another bad artist, Ed Mcguiness or some last name like that should do a animated series. :cool:

[ZT4]

I'm sure that, with a light-hearted approach and some strong, professional, mature, and encouragable words that will reassure fans, we can enjoy this

http://drawman.blogspot.com/


It seems that the last few posts I have posted on the blog in regards to the situation of the comic biz and the Babymen has hit a cord with many, many of my fellow comic fan and professional as well. I guess these are thoughts and feelings I have been dealing with and stirring around in my head, steering around as well as a professional. As a kid the batman show was such a big event, everybody was so excited to watch it every week, both my brother Dave and I were just fixed on it and the other Irwin Allen shows. It seemd to be a cool thing, popular and we didn't take it as being silly or feel they were getting the essence of the character wrong, and ok, I was like 7-8 years old. But those shows fuled my playtime as well and Dave and I had plenty of action figure including the Captain Action withe the Batman disguise, Corgi batmobiles, etc.That's what this new Batman Brave and the Bold is supposed to be, the same thing I'm sure the network and toy producers want.


If you are 30 years old and angry that some cartoon on TV isn't getting the character right because it's aimed at kids, designed for kids---then you have a serious fucking problem, and the cartoon is the least of it! The good stuff, the good cartoons, stuff Timm and Crew did can be enjoyed by a kid, or even adults, and that's great. But we have Adult Swim and shows like Venture Brothers where the whole thing is to aim at us adults using the familaiar icons of the past. That's part of the joke. And you caan have the draker edge in the batman films, but I still think if you go too far you eventually weaken the concept , corrupt it and then you loose the heart. you also make it seems like eveything else...

The recent passing of Charlton Heston also fits and flows into this all as well. Heston was really to my mind the prototype-action hero we have today like Arnold, or had I should say, the current crop of soft, pretty featured Hollywood leading men being more like girls standing in wet panties compared to Heston. It might be a byproduct of getting older to look back and think things were 'so much better back then." But in many cases or at least in comic and film I think they were, sure there was a lot of crap, but there is a lot more of everything now and a higher percentage of it is crap, and very expensive crap. Sure Soilent Green is a fun, kinda' cheesy movie, like Planet of the Apes. Like Kamandi was. Fun. A fun comic for a 10 year old kid like me who also happened to like Soilent Green and West World. But if you took those concepts today, that idea and try and sell it to the Babymen crowd, forget it. It can't be fun, nope, all one note, retread, grim gritty. You have to take Soilent green and show the people being turned into food in as gross and ghastly as possible, you leave so little to the audiences imagination...no participation.

I have read things like One Piece and Narrutto and Death Note and they, the Japanese are doing with the medium of comics what we used to do as an industry and don't now. they make stories that appeal to different levels of maturity and for people who like different genres as well. Hell, just for different people period! At one time it was pretty standard here. You had Kirby who appealed to a kid, then maybe Neal Adams who appealed to the older reader, and then you could even step up, Dr. Strange, Warren mags or even undergrounds like Zap, Slow Death, etc. You has Mary Worth, Blondie, Eek and Meek, Steve Canyon, Dick Tracy, B.C., Peanuts all on one page and nobody seemd to get outraged or upset at one being silly and one being "real". people just read them and accepted them all in the 'world of cartoons". That day with strips is sadly gone too as we all have been reading about the steady decline of the American newspaper. And more people read strips than ever read comic books and adults bought the papers and the material was aimed at them, kids also loved the stuff too, but the direct market is so anti that idea.

The equivalent of those books from the pre-direct market today struggle to sell 1500-10,000 copies, I know, I've worked on many and have friends like Rick Remender who does too, and works hard at it.

There is also a pretentiousness today in comics that there wasn't back in the 60's, 70's and 80's that is very apparent today in comics. It's ironic I think, that while I feel the comic biz is in some respects in it's worst state in many regards as a profession, ( no effective raise in page rate since the mid 90's) and as a biz, comics have never been more "in the news", more accepted, more popular. So, why is there this disconnect between the popularity of comics as a medium, being adapted into films, TV, graphic novels coming into their own, being actively purchased by librarians and librarys all over, appreciated by popular and learned minds, read the world over by millions in strips, manga, etc., yet the average comic shop, the Walled City of Babymania is like some ghastly blighted backwater full of the mentally, socially "tarded" and most importantly, business wise the village of the damed!

Dammed if you can find anything much beyond the offerings of the top tier of the Big Two-Three publishers in the average strip mall comic shop. Dammed if you can find any manga, any humor books, dammed if you can find the owner who's interested in selling more comics, growing his business.

If these guys owned a supermarket they wouldn't stock Milk, or Eggs or anything but the three types of food they liked, forget having a selection, forget advertising, forget inventory, tracking sales, etc.
In this set-up, how can the business have a hope of surviving long term? The fact is there are a few good retailers out there, and we know them all. it's about 300-400 shops tops. They order well, order a variety, have a good staff, have a store that people would feel good going into if they were a teen, a kid, dare I say...a girl or a woman. Those shops order the Indy book, the alternative books, stock manga, put it in the front, have books for a wide audience, like a regular book store. But there are not enough of these shops to offset the negative or bad shops and that's why all the indy cartoons make little or no money, why you don't have more Bones, or Stranger in paradise, etc. that's because there is not enough good shops to support an artist or writer making this type of book. The retailers just won't fucking support you, even if they could sell your book in some cases. They don't care, they don't want your business. Nobody seems to be really talking about this stuff, about the real 8 million pound gorilla flinging shit in the room. Without growth, and continued attrition at what point does the tip point, shark jump, Kirk beam up for the last time? I know some people will read this and say i am the angry guy holding the sign saying the end is near...and first I am not really angry, more resigned, and also I think just saying how things really look in maybe a more realistic way than many people in comics do. I thinks it's partly because of the mindset of being insulated from reality, comics is very insular, and the fantasy that we will be saved.That soething or that Superman will somehow save us. And why aren't more people with a lot more at stake in this game than I have feeling the same way, and more importantly talking about it?

I don't see hundreds of new shops opening or hundreds of new faces in the cons or in the shops. It's the same dam people.

last year something happened. I didn't go to the comic shop for 8 months, the longest time I have gone without buying or looking at a single new comic book since I stared buying them as a kid and certainly the longest run as a pro of not venturing into a shop. And guess what---I missed nothing. Same grim heroes "posing". Sure, there are some swell comics out there and I picked up a reprint of Scalped my fave current comic, and the Gorlon Parlov Punisher comics and a few hex comics by Brenet I missed, some few Hellboy's and Hellboy related stuff like the Abe Sapien comic, Umbrella Academy, an Ashely Wood comic, but dame the mainstream Marvel, DC stuff just seems so unappealing. I just look at stuff and put it back and wonder how anyone but the hard core 50k fans will even want to buy this stuff? I did see other stuff I liked but frankly now I wait for trades, I just have too much crap I need to get rid of as it and then i have these piles of comics sliding around now and it's a mess and a hassle.

Nobody that know of has posted any numbers on how many comic fans we have left. And by this I mean direct market fans? I say it's 150K tops since the average books sells what-- well under 50K now and the top books sell 100k or so. I figure if the top book sells 150k, that means the fact is there must be 15-20k of those issues bagged as extra copies, as store stock, etc., because these guys still think this shit will be worth something. From the numbers I see posted on the Beat and elsewhere and from my own info from fellow pros and people in the trenches the numbers today suck sliced donkey meat! I think the average cartoonist today, especially the new guys and gals coming up might seriously do better to put ether work up on-line in color for free to build a readership and not waste the thousands of dollars to try and sail that boat in the stagnate, hostile direct market. More about that in my next post.


...Bugger.

[Sean Whitmore]

http://drawman.blogspot.com/

Wow, I'm kinda crushing on Mike Manley a little now.


SEAN

[ZT4]

He's your baby...man?:tongue:

He does have a point, I agree.

[Sean Whitmore]

He's your baby...man?:tongue:

Babymanley.


SEAN

[filthysize]

At a certain point, the director might go... "well, this scene sucks, but it's where johnny dies, and there's no other way to explain why johnny's not in the rest of the film...

OK, everyone look perturbed and ACTION!"

You're implying that directors read scripts as they shoot and not beforehand.

[The Xenos]

http://drawman.blogspot.com/

What a load of crap. So if we dislike your designs, then we are immature babymen? Well, that's a mature stance to take.

Yes, I know these cartoons are for kids. That's what has me worried about their terrible design.

Well I’m in my 20s and I think this cartoon design is trash. There is nothing wrong with giving kids mature and sometimes dark character. Certainly with Batman, that’s how he is. let’s not revert back to the 60s Sprang designs. Batman Begins and the Batman comics use the modern version, what makes this cartoon feel the need to be different?


Let’s face it, these cartoons are for children, young children 5-10,12 years old. Cereal eating, fruit rollup snacking, toy buying kids, not 30-something, 40-something bitter bee babymen who want these characters in adult situations.

Well, those cereal and rollups are loaded with high fructose corn syrup. Our kids are getting fat and getting diabetes from the crap we’re feeding them. This cartoon looks no different. An unhealthy sugary mess.

And he brings up Japan, with stuff like Naruto and One Piece. Well at least Naruto and One Piece have a consistent version of the characters. They don't have three competing series like DC did with JLU, The Batman, and Teen Titans. DC has a modern dark and serious Batman movie coming out, they have an animated movie to go with it, and the comics are pretty serious too. Then they have this brightly colored retro cartoon out completely in the face of every other current Batman out there. Excuse me, but who is the babyman living in the past?

Now I'm not saying this needs to be grim and gritty either. Yet he's using that as an excuse to fly into the brightly colored other direction. Hell, I even enjoy the 50s artwork of Sprang and even the 60s Adam West show. If I want that stuff, I’d go watch it. (Or I would if they had DVDs of the show and not just the movie.) This stuff has no business in a modern Batman and DCU cartoon. There are dozens and dozens of good modern artists to emulate, why go back to the 1950s?

[Reptisaurus!]

Now I'm not saying this needs to be grim and gritty either. Yet he's using that as an excuse to fly into the brightly colored other direction. Hell, I even enjoy the 50s artwork of Sprang and even the 60s Adam West show. If I want that stuff, I’d go watch it.

So if children want a Batman aimed at children, they should watch a television series that is off the air and not available on DVD, or shell out 20-30 bucks a piece for fifty year old comics.

Well, color me totally convinced.

[The Xenos]

Or they could produce more cartoons with the quality of that one that now off the air.

Plus why Batman again? Or even why not even keep The Batman running or spin off of that. I wasn't a big fan of that show, but that seemed more on target than this. Plus they were expanding it to other DC characters in the final seasons, why not make Brave & The Bold in that style.

Sadly, I've missed the Legion cartoon. I kept meaning to check it out somehow. might rent or buy the DVD.

Meanwhile, why anyone would want to do a Sprang styled show nowadays confuses me. Maybe once I see some footage it might look better, but right now I'm perplexed at how this works for the new Batman and DCU toon.

[GRANT!]

Or they could produce more cartoons with the quality of that one that now off the air.

Isn't that the point of this show?

[Sean Whitmore]

Maybe once I see some footage it might look better

It's just possible.


SEAN

[The Xenos]

Yes. There is still a lot to see of what this show has in store. Yet isn't the character design a major part of any animated series? I'm not a fan of the design choices that have clearly been made. Maybe it can over come that, maybe not.

[TMM Writes Lego]

are there any trailers yet?

[The Xenos]

No. There are two still images. Though some jerks think they can judge a whole series based on them. Morons.

Though we did also some casting news. For Batman. You know The Drew Carey show? You know the friend on it? No, not the tall one. Oswald. Yeah. That guy.

[Hawkman]

Though we did also some casting news. For Batman. You know The Drew Carey show? You know the friend on it? No, not the tall one. Oswald. Yeah. That guy.
Which has now dropped my anticipation for this series a notch, as I can't stand this guy's voice work. Very limited range, in my opinion.

[shazap]

http://shazap.com/142011/

Just My Take On The Upcoming Animated Series.

[filthysize]

So Andrea Romano confirmed in this podcast that this will be a Batman with a more regular guy broader sense of humor instead of his usual morbid wit. I guess that explains the Sprang-y design.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

This sounds freaking awful so far.

JLU should have never been canceled.

[40footwolf]

Looks interesting. If I still watched Saturday Morning cartoons this would definitely be at the top of my list.