A few words

[Joe Rice]

I took a step away from the boards after recent events completely disgusted me. I had to cool down and think about what had happened and how I really feel about it.

I'm not talking about the prank, they've never bothered me at all. Sometimes they're lame, rarely they're funny, but that's not the point.

A poster on this board encouraged aloud the suicide of a poster he didn't like. When called on it by a few, he balked. At most, he would say "Well, it was wrong, but that person is terrible." The more people that stood up, the more he began to deride the other person, going so far as to make false (and highly hippocritical) charges of prejudice at YABS.

Yes, some more people have spoken up. Yes, others quietly thought it was wrong.

But that person is still posting here. That person is still being treated like a special little hoorayville person, joking and laughing. "I need to apologize to myself first."

No. You need to actually apologize to the person who shared something painful, and you viciously attacked because . . .it's hard to say why. Hurt pride? Wrathful rage? Whatever it was, it was disgusting, and beyond even what I thought you were capable of.

I do not look forward to the piling on of sentiment how this is unecessary, how I'm whining or a "cool kid" or any of the dozen other ways people get dismissed here.

But this is a board where that happened, where very little happened about it, and where, when I came here to talk about something troubling me, I quickly realized it is no place for that, not anymore.

I am absolutely disgusted, and cooling off has only taken the heat and anger away. Not the feeling.

I realize this may do little. I felt it proper to say this though. Congratulations, new low.

[Dreadstar]

I realize this may do little. I felt it proper to say this though.

Then you did the right thing.

[Ed Cunard]

Jesus. You're good when you're serious. I couldn't have said it better. Even if this brings up the "things change, you can't always expect for things to go back to the way you liked it thing," I'm glad you said it in an open forum.

[GozertheGozarian]

Good for those that held the poster to task, very bad for the poster themself, and any mods that didn't warn or ban them.

[i_mmmchocolate]

Well said, Joe.

[Shade]

I agree with Dread. You had a right and an obligation to say something with as strong as you feel.

For what it's worth I think the world of both guys involved. Honestly as disappointing as it is that something like that happened here and the powers that be have not done anything about it, I'm more disappointed in that the person who did it has not taken action himself to correct it and make amends.

[Agent Helix]

Aside from being a peanut-gallery heckler, I try to stay out of this kind of stuff, because usually it just makes me roll my eyes at the infantility of it all. But even I was taken aback by it, and by the attitude of the poster in question afterwards. I didn't bother saying anything about it except a few increasingly snide, though innocuous, posts, because I feel I'm too much an outsider to really comment. But I do agree with you completely.

And since someone's going to bring up how this thread is "calling somebody out", it damn well should be called out, because it was fucking despicable.

[Lone Ranger]

Well said, Joe. Very well said.

The incident in question serves to further cement my position to only share a small portion my personal life with this Board.

It was a terrible thing to say, regardless of personal feelings between the two posters.

The only possible silver lining is that this incident brought someone's troubles to my attention, and I imagine it was the first time that many others had been made aware of it.

Although I do not know him well, I consider KO to be a fine, fine person and I hope that he is able to see his way through his problems. I believe that he has a very bright future and has a lot of offer to his communities (real life and fake internet life).

I wish him well.

[mgs]

someone actually, seriously encouraged another poster to kill themself?!? O.o

[Matt Algren]

And it's only this morning that I've accepted the fact that this is not, in fact, part of the prank. Which is good because man, that would be totally not funny, but bad because man, that's so clearly wrong.

Disagreements and arguments happen; they're part of being in a community. But this isn't about the argument. It's about hitting someone where you know it'll hurt the most, saying something that should never be said to anyone, and doing it with glee.

I'll say publically what I've already said privately: Morts, you need to hop a train and deal with this face to face.

[Ray R.]

And since someone's going to bring up how this thread is "calling somebody out", it damn well should be called out, because it was fucking despicable.

Yup.

The lack of even a temporary ban for at least two acts of pure viciousness towards other posters in the last week has me very, very disappointed.

The "all is forgiven" attitude, the absolute lack of anything resembling an apology that isn't self-serving, the "if I post more and more, maybe people will forget about it" willfulness. Not even a goddamned slap-on-the-wrist. Unacceptable.

There is some real hurtful, disgusting behavior getting validated by either letting it slide or chalking it up to April Fools.

I don't care who cares, but I'm pretty much done with posting anything of substance until I see some administrative action taken.

[Jeff Brady]

Nicely done, Joe.

This person you speak of has been made aware of how some of his friends are disappointed and downright pissed at him for this, both publicly and privately. His poor attempt at apologizing has been derided. There should be a form of punishment. As welcome as amendment of the instigating conflict would be, it unfortunately seems unlikely. And probably too little, too late.

The person who came here looking to talk about something has been talking about this thing for over eight years (according to reports) and has apparently done nothing to address the problem. If he has, that particular information hasn't been shared. Based on previous incidents on this board where people regularly come in to complain or ask for advice on the same subject every time, those who do not act on the repetitive advice are generally scolded for being a brick wall.

This person, however, has not been treated as such. Instead he has been embraced, and rightly so. He has been told how envious other people are of his life. He has been given solid advice on how to handle the problems he faces. Help has been offered to him. Respect and affection have been expressed for him publicly and privately. All of that is well deserved. It is sincerely hoped that this person recognizes that he deserves happiness, that he seeks out and gets the help he needs.

[Tom]

Yup.

The lack of even a temporary ban for at least two acts of pure viciousness towards other posters in the last week has me very, very disappointed.

The "all is forgiven" attitude, the absolute lack of anything resembling an apology that isn't self-serving, the "if I post more and more, maybe people will forget about it" willfulness. Not even a goddamned slap-on-the-wrist. Unacceptable.

There is some real hurtful, disgusting behavior getting validated by either letting it slide or chalking it up to April Fools.

I don't care who cares, but I'm pretty much done with posting anything of substance until I see some administrative action taken.

Most of you know I'm good friends with Alex and many of you know that I have been accused many a time of "covering" for him, but I have to say (and Alex already knows this), that when the question of "administrative action" came up, I came down on the side of this offense NOT being ban-worthy. It was a statement that I found stomach-churningly offensive and the subsequent half-assed non-apologies only made it worse in my eyes, but I'm of the opinion that something like that needs to be policed by the community, not from on high. To me, that was the most upsetting thing about the whole episode: that very few people who read those words had much to say at all about it. The takeaway from that is that the community thinks the person who typed those words is somehow beyond reproach and the person to whom those words were directed somehow deserved them.

[morna]

I have to say that I've been very dissapointed by everything I've seen go down between the two posters in question. Witnessing two people who I respect in other contexts get all schoolyard... it vexes me. This latest thing is beyond disappointing. A new low indeed.



And Joe, good for you for making it important.

[mattx110]

I missed a good amount of what happened. But CBR kinda, isn't really the place where people are left and right yell out bannable insults, so maybe it's just a bit too surreal and out of character for the board to react to this kind of stuff.

[Ed Cunard]

The person who came here looking to talk about something has been talking about this thing for over eight years (according to reports) and has apparently done nothing to address the problem. If he has, that particular information hasn't been shared. Based on previous incidents on this board where people regularly come in to complain or ask for advice on the same subject every time, those who do not act on the repetitive advice are generally scolded for being a brick wall.

This person, however, has not been treated as such. Instead he has been embraced, and rightly so. He has been told how envious other people are of his life. He has been given solid advice on how to handle the problems he faces. Help has been offered to him. Respect and affection have been expressed for him publicly and privately. All of that is well deserved. It is sincerely hoped that this person recognizes that he deserves happiness, that he seeks out and gets the help he needs.

Just to quibble, because that's what I do--I don't recall this person ever actually asking for help, just getting things off of his chest and being offered advice and such, but never saying something like "I have a problem with ________, what should I do?" every few months with little or no change.

On the "bright" side, though, I think we'll be seeing less of that kind of sharing all around from a lot of people, and the really personal stuff will be confined to PMs, e-mails, and phone conversations.

[Lone Ranger]

The takeaway from that is that the community thinks the person who typed those words is somehow beyond reproach and the person to whom those words were directed somehow deserved them.


That is certainly one way of interpreting the actions (or inactions), Tom. I do think that there are a variety of options that likely took place.

Some may have had difficulty following all of the action (I certainly cannot find the time of day to chart discussions through numerous thread that grow faster than I can read), and not been totally unaware of the situation.

Some may have felt that it was a matter for the admins, and stepped back waiting for something to happen feeling that it wasn't their role to speak up.

Another possibility is that some felt it was appropriate to comunicate with one or both of the parties privately, feeling that more than enough had already gone public.

I don't think you need to worry that the entire board sides with the offender rather than the offender, although some may indeed be in that position. I imagine that we were all impacted by this in a different way, and acted (or chose not to act) for different reason.

My guess is that the offender lost a lot of respect across the board - even it that fact wasn't publicly voiced.

[Valmore]

I'm not lost, I'm just misplaced.

[Ray R.]

Most of you know I'm good friends with Alex and many of you know that I have been accused many a time of "covering" for him, but I have to say (and Alex already knows this), that when the question of "administrative action" came up, I came down on the side of this offense NOT being ban-worthy. It was a statement that I found stomach-churningly offensive and the subsequent half-assed non-apologies only made it worse in my eyes, but I'm of the opinion that something like that needs to be policed by the community, not from on high. To me, that was the most upsetting thing about the whole episode: that very few people who read those words had much to say at all about it. The takeaway from that is that the community thinks the person who typed those words is somehow beyond reproach and the person to whom those words were directed somehow deserved them.

With all due respect, Tom, that's not good enough. You can't blame the rest of the community for the actions of one poster (and I think the other incident is equally galling as well).

There were plenty of us who had plenty to say. In the thread in question, and in Rita's, over and over again.

I have both of the posters on ignore. I changed plans to go to New York as a result. If I could have perma-banned them, I would.

This is now a CBR Community Forum issue. Not just the individual posters. If these kinds of intentionally hurtful exchanges are going to handled now by peer pressure, on an ad hoc basis, then that's ridiculous.

[Tom]

I hear what you're saying, Ray. This isn't my decision to make, but I wanted to explain what my point of view on the situation is.

[jessecuster3]

I would just like to say, while I certainly agree with most of what you are saying Joe, actions on both sides of the issue have been abhorrent.

While the specific comment was awful, the baiting that led to it was almost equally awful.

[Shade]

I would just like to say, while I certainly agree with most of what you are saying Joe, actions on both sides of the issue have been abhorrent.

While the specific comment was awful, the baiting that led to it was almost equally awful.

Um really? Equally as awful?

"Your joke was not funny and you have a small penis" = "I think you should give in and kill yourself"

Maybe I missed something...but that seems off.

[Corrina]

I think the 'kill yourself' comment clearly had no equal in its offensiveness.

[Lone Ranger]

While the specific comment was awful, the baiting that led to it was almost equally awful.

This comes from the same line of reasoning as "My wife was just asking to be hit"

[Typo Lad]

Joe,

As the person you are speaking of, I want you to know that I hear what you are saying. What I said was wrong. I hear that. I am honestly surprised I have not been banned, or received a single warning.

I'm not going to qualify what I said, or explain what happened that got me so worked up. The fact of the matter is, I was out of line. I was also out of line to try to qualify it out of the time. I should have gone back and deleted it the second I typed it.

I want to clarify that I did not go to YaBs to badmouth him, but to talk about the prank without bringing up the incident. When you came there, I over-reacted again and it turned into another massive mess.

I did not contact the other party because, frankly, I don't think he'd accept an apology from me. Certainly not now. I have debated calling him., I have debated texting him. I have debated showing up at his store. I don't know how it will turn out. I was frankly, more than a bit scared that I'd either upset him more or we'll end up arguing more. I was also worried he'd take it as a threat of some kind. Your calling me out has made me realize I was being a big baby. I have sent the other party a text message. If he does not answer it, I will pick up the phone.

For the record, I have been called out on this. If you read the thread you see many people stepping up to tell me I am out of line. I have had people I respect tell me, publically and privately, that they no longer go and rightly so. Here you see it again. No-one is saying it is okay. Not even me.

If the other party is willing to hear me out, I would like to try to make it up to him. I don't know if I can, but I would.


----------------
Ray,

You have me on ignore, so I have to ask this publicly. You refer to "two acts of pure viciousness". I am only aware of the actions I took in regards to Alex. If you know of another act, please let me know. This is bothering me quite a bit.

I also agree with what you say about peer pressure.
---------

Jeff,

As welcome as amendment of the instigating conflict would be, it unfortunately seems unlikely. And probably too little, too late.

I have debated deleting it. I thought it would be too little too late. I also thought a Mod would lock the thread. I am more than willing to delete it, as long as it is not seen as me covering my ass.

----------
Tom,

Firstly, I respect and disagree with your statement, because I doubt anyone is going to take any punishment I give myself seriously.

To me, that was the most upsetting thing about the whole episode: that very few people who read those words had much to say at all about it. The takeaway from that is that the community thinks the person who typed those words is somehow beyond reproach and the person to whom those words were directed somehow deserved them.

I don't know how many read them, but I have received multiple PMs, e-mails, and Facebook messages about my comment. None positive. I don't think anyone thinks I'm beyond reproach. You see that, again, in the original thread. I don't see anyone saying the other party deserves it. I will say one person who PMed me made it clear he/she absolutely despises the other party, and even he/she told me off.


---

Jesse,

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but that doesn't excuse what I said. There were many other ways I could have reacted. Hell, I could have not reacted and ignored the bait.

---------

All,

As the Mods have not touched this and left it to you, I ask you what I should do. Should I walk away? For how long?

I'm serious. Whatever you decide, I'll abide by.

[Roquefort Raider]

Um really? Equally as awful?

"Your joke was not funny and you have a small penis" = "I think you should give in and kill yourself"

Maybe I missed something...but that seems off.

I read it more as a "tell us again how hot your wife (who's cyber-cheating on you) is" = "drop dead" kinda thing.

I agree with jesse. After a certain level of hurtfulness, there is no "worse" comment. Things move into the "all right, this is just too much" category.

[Justin Davis]

Most of you know I'm good friends with Alex and many of you know that I have been accused many a time of "covering" for him, but I have to say (and Alex already knows this), that when the question of "administrative action" came up, I came down on the side of this offense NOT being ban-worthy. It was a statement that I found stomach-churningly offensive and the subsequent half-assed non-apologies only made it worse in my eyes, but I'm of the opinion that something like that needs to be policed by the community, not from on high. To me, that was the most upsetting thing about the whole episode: that very few people who read those words had much to say at all about it. The takeaway from that is that the community thinks the person who typed those words is somehow beyond reproach and the person to whom those words were directed somehow deserved them.

I agree with and echo everything you say except for the last sentence. I've seen very little that says Morts (let's stop pussyfooting around) was beyond reproach. What it seems like is that some people might not have taken Morts as seriously as others. People have called them "schoolyard insults" and that's what some people may hve taken them as. A stupid comment with nothing behind it. However, others saw that Morts was referencing something specific that shouldn't be used that way. It doesn't look like a matter of the community as a whole dismissing the attitude (quite the opposite from many), but people may have had a different interpretation.

Now, I've contacted Joe in private because I wasn't sure if Alex had me blocked. Hey, it's likely given our past. Frankly, I think a lot of people are now ignoring Morts and that's mainly for the shoddy way the apology was given. There was a lot of bad and wrong in that first thread and connecting ones, but that one comment by Morts and back-handed apology that followed tops the list of those that came before and after.

I'd love if this actually encourage people to post more often about less superficial or broad topics because they don't expect people to act like jerks. Shit, I'd post something of my own if I had much to talk about.

[Guapo Méndez]

There is no way to answer this thread without revealing way too much of what I feel (and have it used as ammo later on), so I'll just bullet point it.

-Kid Omega was way out of line with the crack on Typo's marriage and sex life. If you want to take digs at someone, take digs at him, don't drag his wife into it.
-Typo was way, way out of line with his 'don't let us stop you' crack. I don't get depression but you don't say that to someone suffering from it. Do you want to cause the worst case scenario?
-If you share your shit online, don't act so surprised when an online good samaritan/moron flings it back to you.
-If you fuck up, apologize. Even when you don't like the person. Especially when you don't like the person.
-You can burn bridges and scorch earth with that poster you don't like fine via PM's. Secret Wars ain't just Marvel Comics, you know.
-If you can't stand the poster, either don't read his threads or put him on ignore. Life doesn't get simpler than that.

[Justin Davis]

There is no way to answer this thread without revealing way too much of what I feel (and have it used as ammo later on), so I'll just bullet point it.

-Kid Omega was way out of line with the crack on Typo's marriage and sex life. If you want to take digs at someone, take digs at him, don't drag his wife into it.
-Typo was way, way out of line with his 'don't let us stop you' crack. I don't get depression but you don't say that to someone suffering from it. Do you want to cause the worst case scenario?
-If you share your shit online, don't act so surprised when an online good samaritan/moron flings it back to you.
-If you fuck up, apologize. Even when you don't like the person. Especially when you don't like the person.
-You can burn bridges and scorch earth with that poster you don't like fine via PM's. Secret Wars ain't just Marvel Comics, you know.
-If you can't stand the poster, either don't read his threads or put him on ignore. Life doesn't get simpler than that.

I'm really bad at doing this today, but there's not one word you say that I disagree with here.

[Merey]

---------

All,

As the Mods have not touched this and left it to you, I ask you what I should do. Should I walk away? For how long?

I'm serious. Whatever you decide, I'll abide by.


Honestly? I think you should take McEnery's suggestion and take a self-imposed temporary ban ala MacQuarrie.

[Matt Algren]

Ray,

You have me on ignore, so I have to ask this publicly. You refer to "two acts of pure viciousness". I am only aware of the actions I took in regards to Alex. If you know of another act, please let me know. This is bothering me quite a bit.
He's talking about me.

[jessecuster3]

Um really? Equally as awful?

"Your joke was not funny and you have a small penis" = "I think you should give in and kill yourself"

Maybe I missed something...but that seems off.

Yes, taking digs at one person's personal life was equally as awful as the response.


Did you really read all of the unedited text?

[Typo Lad]

Yes, taking digs at one person's personal life was equally as awful as the response.


Did you really read all of the unedited text?
Jesse,

Please, please, please stop.

It was not equal. He was obnoxious and I was cruel. Huge difference.

If I can't defend my actions, you certainly can't.

In my head, it was something else. It came out shitacular and I should have deleted it.

I am at fault. Don't try to make it "okay" because he was baiting me. I tried to rationalize it that way and made it even worse.

Please. I'm asking you. Drop it.

[Ed Cunard]

I'd love if this actually encourage people to post more often about less superficial or broad topics because they don't expect people to act like jerks. Shit, I'd post something of my own if I had much to talk about.

That would be the best of all possible outcomes, Justin. I don't know if it'll happen though. I know I came back for a specific reason, and I'm certainly less likely to share that reason publicly now.

As for "punishment"... I'm not in favor of it, either. Maybe because of my own problems with depression, or because I'm super-awesome friends with Alex, or whatever, but this isn't something I think a temp-ban would help--it's kind of a "ok, you served your time, hugs!" thing.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do that on this one. That doesn't mean I can't get along with Typo or anyone else involved--shit, I talk to people I actively dislike all the time with little or no real animosity--but I'm not entirely sure I can ever really like him as a person as I used to.

And, in fairness, I was the one who tried to score points with the infidelity comment, not Alex, and people can totally think less of me for it--it'd be a fair cop. I mean, there are people I didn't like before any of this ever happened (and I'm pretty sure everyone reading this could name their lists, too--hell, some of us have done it in PMs or e-mails or whatnot), but that doesn't necessarily have to play out into super-big-explodey like this did.

[Jack Zodiac]

All,

As the Mods have not touched this and left it to you, I ask you what I should do. Should I walk away? For how long?

I'm serious. Whatever you decide, I'll abide by.

First of all, whether he'll accept it or not, I think you need to at least call Alex and apologize. You don't owe anybody else here any explanations or apologies but him. I don't really know either of you that well, but I like and respect both of you, though both a little less now, and I'd hate to lose any of that for either of you completely.

And then, yeah... I'd probably take some time off from the forums altogether and work on myself if I were you. I know you've got shit happening in your life that's stressful and if you spend enough time here, it's bound to escape, but like Joe said, this place used to be the kind of place you could come to and confide in people over things that personal. That you haven't, especially you considering you've been pretty open about a lot in the past, is saying something that lends a lot of credence to his complaint.

Whatever you do, though, I hope you do it really fucking soon, because I just started coming back to Comm more often, and now it's getting shitty all over.

[Paul McEnery]

Thanks for saying this, Joe.

I don't think silence condones what's been going on. If anything, I think it signifies disgust, and unwillingness to be drawn into the disgusting drama.

Personally, I think this and similar incidents are a matter that does call for heavier moderation; but I'm not a mod, I don't have to deal with the responsibilities of a mod, and it's not my call.

What disturbs me is the carrying on as if nothing had happened. It seems obvious to me that when one steps over the line like that, it's necessary to make things right before carrying on. Otherwise you put everyone else in a bad position. One's own anxiety about how to best right the situation, one's own natural desire for self-protection (especially against that anxiety), these are no longer the primary consideration.

One needs to man up and make things right, for one's own sake, for the offending party's sake, and for the sake of the entire community; unless, that is, you think that it's okay to have everyone carry on in bad faith, which would I think devalue the relationships in the community so much that they'd become pointless.

I don't think there are any black hats or white hats here; and god knows a bloodless community is as superficial as an ethics-free community. If we are to retain our full humanity on these boards, with all our flaws and passions and real grievances and disagreements -- as we should -- we need to take our lumps when we step over the line.

Morts -- you know you stepped over the line here, and you're understandably anxious about the consequences. You're one of the people whose contribution to this board I genuinely cherish, but the truth is, you've been building to this for quite some while. I believe you have some personal issues beyond those you've shared with us that it's time for you to confront; and you should take this as an opportunity to take care of business, not in a way that comforts your anxieties but in a way that takes you beyond them.

In the meantime, I believe you need to do everything you can to make serious amends with Alex, regardless of how much you feel that this infringes on your pride and dignity. And until you have done that, I believe you have to make yourself scarce. This is on you now, and looking for reassurance, community acceptance, or even (especially!) participation in flippant threads degrades you and degrades the community -- and adds to the insult and injury to Alex.

You know what the obligation is on you. Take care of it.

And take care of yourself.

[stealthwise]

I'm not normally a proponent of things like this, but perhaps, because the words are out there and because they just tend to SIT on the screen for so long, that after a while, the original thread with the confrontation and the other discussions pertaining to it, should be locked and then deleted. Words hurt, but they also tend to hurt more when people can refer to them time and again and constantly re-read and re-hash what happened.

It would still take time to sort out if it were an in-person outburst, but threads like this one, the one on YABS, Rita's, etc, are just propagating argument about an incident that should likely be contained and dealt with by those select few involved. I could be wrong, but when I read posts that talk about the same sequence of events over and over again, especially when many feel that the matter wasn't satisfactorily resolved once it occurred, it can't be good for the community as a whole.

The main site just got revamped, presumably to draw more people to it and to the boards, let's not let this take over and guide how others see us as a whole.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I've really debated on not getting into the whole situation involving the 2 posters. I usually post and get along with generally everyone on CBR. So I just wanna say...I'm staying like Switzerland on this whole affair. Hence why I haven't posted til now on it.

[cactusmaac]

Thanks for saying this, Joe.

I don't think silence condones what's been going on. If anything, I think it signifies disgust, and unwillingness to be drawn into the disgusting drama.

Indeed.


Personally, I think this and similar incidents are a matter that does call for heavier moderation; but I'm not a mod, I don't have to deal with the responsibilities of a mod, and it's not my call.


Totally. The thread should have been locked before it exploded into the super-bitchfest.

[Kid Omega]

Yes, taking digs at one person's personal life was equally as awful as the response.


You know, I've tried to stay out of this, for a number of reasons. I was just going to keep my mouth sht, and let things blow over.

But this is fucking insane.

I DID NOT TAKE DIGS AT TYPO'S PERSONAL LIFE, OR HIS WIFE.

I was making fun of the fact the he posts about his sex life daily. This was after he called me his "least-favorite person" , mind you.

If you really think some pointed digs about his posting style warrant the response it got, than you need some perspective, man.

It wasn't just the suicide crack, which really fucking hurt by the way, it was the next two days of "I know it was wrong, but man, WHAT AN ASSHOLE that guy is, am I right?"

And it's still going on.

Fuck guys, I'm sorry i posted something personal a month or so ago. I asked a question, someone pointed out that what I was going through was symtomatic of another problem, someone suggested some herbal supplements, and guess what? I felt better.

Now I'm pretty sure I won't bring that shit up ever again.

[Ed Cunard]

And again, because people sometimes miss things when I post big long things, I was the one who mocked the infidelity.

[Justin Davis]

That would be the best of all possible outcomes, Justin.

I can be quite the optimist at times.

I don't know if it'll happen though. I know I came back for a specific reason, and I'm certainly less likely to share that reason publicly now.

If I called you a pussy, would that be against the spirit of things?

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do that on this one. That doesn't mean I can't get along with Typo or anyone else involved--shit, I talk to people I actively dislike all the time with little or no real animosity--but I'm not entirely sure I can ever really like him as a person as I used to.

I'm one of those people, aren't I?

And, in fairness, I was the one who tried to score points with the infidelity comment, not Alex, and people can totally think less of me for it--it'd be a fair cop. I mean, there are people I didn't like before any of this ever happened (and I'm pretty sure everyone reading this could name their lists, too--hell, some of us have done it in PMs or e-mails or whatnot), but that doesn't necessarily have to play out into super-big-explodey like this did.

You're a dick too then. And you're right about the other stuff.

[Ed Cunard]

Oh, no, I am totally a pussy. But I don't want to steer into that conversation right now, because this is one thread that probably doesn't really need a lot of jokes or hugs or cat pictures or any other kind of drift, because I think really important stuff is being said--call me a pussy in Rita's.

Here, though, you can call me a dick, because it's on-topic. Yep. I am totally a dick. I won't even qualify it with a "he started it" or a "my wife cheated on me too and we all make fun of that." It was a dick move, I was cognizant of that when I did it, and I still did it.

[Dreadstar]

Here, though, you can call me a dick, because it's on-topic. Yep. I am totally a dick. I won't even qualify it with a "he started it" or a "my wife cheated on me too and we all make fun of that." It was a dick move, I was cognizant of that when I did it, and I still did it.

You want an internal editor too?

[jessecuster3]

You know, I've tried to stay out of this, for a number of reasons. I was just going to keep my mouth sht, and let things blow over.

But this is fucking insane.

I DID NOT TAKE DIGS AT TYPO'S PERSONAL LIFE, OR HIS WIFE.

I was making fun of the fact the he posts about his sex life daily. This was after he called me his "least-favorite person" , mind you.

If you really think some pointed digs about his posting style warrant the response it got, than you need some perspective, man.

It wasn't just the suicide crack, which really fucking hurt by the way, it was the next two days of "I know it was wrong, but man, WHAT AN ASSHOLE that guy is, am I right?"

And it's still going on.

Fuck guys, I'm sorry i posted something personal a month or so ago. I asked a question, someone pointed out that what I was going through was symtomatic of another problem, someone suggested some herbal supplements, and guess what? I felt better.

Now I'm pretty sure I won't bring that shit up ever again.

I understand the aftermath was wrong I am not saying it wasn't. I think its a really fine line between discussing how he posts about his personal life and what actually happens in it and I think you are using semantics to prove it is not.

Are you saying you did not try to bait him? Because that's not the way it came across.

I don't want you think I don't think it was horrible what he said. I just don't think it should come across as if it came completely out of left field, when it really didn't.

[Justin Davis]

You know, I've tried to stay out of this, for a number of reasons. I was just going to keep my mouth sht, and let things blow over.

But this is fucking insane.

I DID NOT TAKE DIGS AT TYPO'S PERSONAL LIFE, OR HIS WIFE.

I was making fun of the fact the he posts about his sex life daily. This was after he called me his "least-favorite person" , mind you.

If you really think some pointed digs about his posting style warrant the response it got, than you need some perspective, man.

It wasn't just the suicide crack, which really fucking hurt by the way, it was the next two days of "I know it was wrong, but man, WHAT AN ASSHOLE that guy is, am I right?"

And it's still going on.

Fuck guys, I'm sorry i posted something personal a month or so ago. I asked a question, someone pointed out that what I was going through was symtomatic of another problem, someone suggested some herbal supplements, and guess what? I felt better.

Now I'm pretty sure I won't bring that shit up ever again.

You know what, Alex? Fuck that.

Don't let this fucked up incident cloud the good response and conversations you've had in the past.

In fact, that should go for everyone. I see a lot of "I'm not likely to say anything personal/confide in the board in the future," but don't let some current stupidity make you forget all the other awesome stuff that has happened here, even in the last few years.

That would seriously make me sad.

[Kid Omega]

I understand the aftermath was wrong I am not saying it wasn't. I think its a really fine line between discussing how he posts about his personal life and what actually happens in it and I think you are using semantics to prove it is not.

Are you saying you did not try to bait him? Because that's not the way it came across.

I don't want you think I don't think it was horrible what he said. I just don't think it should come across as if it came completely out of left field, when it really didn't.

You're right Jesse. I made fun of his wife and now I'm weaseling out of it with semantics.

I baited him, and he used something very personal against me, and I totally deserved it because I'm such a jerk, and I shouldn't have ever mentioned my crippling anxiety issues here to begin with.

Well done, jesse. you have proven me wrong, and shown me that I deserved to be told to kill myself.

This is why I wasn't posting in these thread, or at all. Thanks. I feel worse than ever now.

[Jeff Brady]

Morts has informed me that he won't return to CBR until May.

And geez, Jesse: Shut up.

[Kid Omega]

You know what, Alex? Fuck that.

Don't let this fucked up incident cloud the good response and conversations you've had in the past.

In fact, that should go for everyone. I see a lot of "I'm not likely to say anything personal/confide in the board in the future," but don't let some current stupidity make you forget all the other awesome stuff that has happened here, even in the last few years.

That would seriously make me sad.

Thanks JD.

Did you get my PM?

[jessecuster3]

You're right Jesse. I made fun of his wife and now I'm weaseling out of it with semantics.

I baited him, and he used something very personal against me, and I totally deserved it because I'm such a jerk, and I shouldn't have ever mentioned my crippling anxiety issues here to begin with.

Well done, jesse. you have proven me wrong, and shown me that I deserved to be told to kill myself.

This is why I wasn't posting in these thread, or at all. Thanks. I feel worse than ever now.

That's not what I said, at all. But you make as much hyperbole out of it as makes you happy.

[Matt Algren]

Stop, jesse.

[howyadoin]

Yikes. I thought I had a pretty good handle on everything that's been happening here, but apparently I've missed a fucking huge chunk of it.

And I've been here all the goddamn time lately, so make of that what you will.

Bottom line, though, now that I think I've got the whole story: Morts, listen to Paul.

[Agent Helix]

Fucking seriously.

[Kid Omega]

That's not what I said, at all. But you make as much hyperbole out of it as makes you happy.

No jesse, it doesn't make me happy.

None of this shit is making me happy.

[Shade]

That's not what I said, at all. But you make as much hyperbole out of it as makes you happy.

Wow. Pot? Is that you?

[Ray R.]

Okay, guys. That's enough.

In lieu of administrative action, if and when it's forthcoming, let's stop discussing intent and semantics and hurt feelings, because it's not going to make anyone feel better at this point.

Justin's got it right. There ARE good people here. And enough people to recognize proper community behavior.

Let's let this one sit for awhile, and work on building back trust, for those who lost it, and for those wary about extending it. It's what adults do.

In in the interim, start using the ignore function.

[Justin Davis]

Thanks JD.

Did you get my PM?

Nope. Send it again?

[Jared_Humpherys]

jesse, I like ya, but I'm serious when I say that you need to stop posting in this thread for the good of everyone.

That said, I wish I had more to add to this conversation aside from mentioning I agree with a lot of what has been said here.

And to clarify that: good stuff from Ed, Tom, Joe, Ray, Justin, etc.

[jessecuster3]

No jesse, it doesn't make me happy.

None of this shit is making me happy.

You are right, I would never condone the tenor of what he said. But I also know how far someone can get backed into a corner before an out of proportion response.

[howyadoin]

No jesse, it doesn't make me happy.

None of this shit is making me happy.Fuck, I can't believe that even needed explaining.

Sorry you're gettin' all this bullshit, man.

[howyadoin]

You are right, I would never condone the tenor of what he said. But I also know how far someone can get backed into a corner before an out of proportion response.You. Aren't. Helping.

[Puma]

You are right, I would never condone the tenor of what he said. But I also know how far someone can get backed into a corner before an out of proportion response.
Please Jesse, back away and out.

[Dreadstar]

...
Fuck guys, I'm sorry i posted something personal a month or so ago. I asked a question, someone pointed out that what I was going through was symtomatic of another problem, someone suggested some herbal supplements, and guess what? I felt better.

Now I'm pretty sure I won't bring that shit up ever again.

Well then how the fuck are we going to find new shit to hold against you?




...seriously though, time to pack it in, folks. All the good shit's been said, and all that's left is the stuff we've already mentally whited-out and discarded. Time for everyone to go out and get some wings and beer.

Hell, I'm buying.

[Winslow]

You are right, I would never condone the tenor of what he said. But I also know how far someone can get backed into a corner before an out of proportion response.

Jesus jesse, get a fucking clue.

[morna]

anyone wants me, I'll be with Dread.

[stealthwise]

Time for everyone to go out and get some wings and beer.

Hell, I'm buying.

Will you pay if they're teriyaki wings?

[Dreadstar]

Will you pay if they're teriyaki wings?

You caught me on a good day.

So yeah, I'll buy you those unmanly wimpy flaccid wings.


Pussy.

[Justin Davis]

Justin's got it right.

The thread should've ended with this post.

[Dreadstar]

The thread should've ended with this post.

Fine. *YOU* buy the wings.

[stealthwise]

You caught me on a good day.

So yeah, I'll buy you those unmanly wimpy flaccid wings.


Pussy.

Hey! I get 'em done up right, nice and crispy, with tons of meat on them.

They just happen to be drowned in sweet 'n sour sauce.

Fuck, I'm now severely tempted to drag my sick ass out of bed just to go and get two dozen of those bad boys.

[Justin Davis]

Fine. *YOU* buy the wings.

Someone buy the frozen ones, and I'll make them.





Also, the only reason I'm joking around now is because I'm not sure what else can be said.

[BYC]

Maybe this is a local thing, but I recently discovered old bay wings at a local bar/restaurant/eatery called Bill Bateman's (it's in MD), and good gods, they are delicious. I hate old bay normally since the flavor is so strong when applied liberally, but hot damn, I like these more than hotwings nowadays.

[Ray R.]

The thread should've ended with this post.

It hurt me to write it.

[Justin Davis]

It hurt me to write it.

The truth hurts.

[Lone Ranger]

Agreed, let's move on.

This thread has humped the shark.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/scottandkat/Shark/WW101.jpg

[Matt Algren]

The truth hurts.
As long as Aquaman is shaking his natural behind like that, you're all right in my book.

[Dreadstar]

Also, the only reason I'm joking around now is because I'm not sure what else can be said.

Good point. It should be noted that my irreverence to the thread is simply because I'm the asshole at the party with the lampshade on his head. I saw a great one-liner earlier and just could not resist. Trust me, I tried. My joking further is in no way a show of my disrespect either for the subject matter, the participants, or the ponderous weight of the seriousness.

It's just mostly how I deal.

I laugh, therefore I am.

So, no offense intended.

[stealthwise]

Seriously, I'm really craving wings now, guys.

[Ray R.]

Good point. It should be noted that my irreverence to the thread is simply because I'm the asshole at the party with the lampshade on his head. I saw a great one-liner earlier and just could not resist. Trust me, I tried. My joking further is in no way a show of my disrespect either for the subject matter, the participants, or the ponderous weight of the seriousness.

It's just mostly how I deal.

I laugh, therefore I am.

So, no offense intended.

Noone likes when the asshole at the party sits down and explains why he's an asshole.

Awk-ward.

[Lone Ranger]

Noone likes when the asshole at the party sits down and explains why he's an asshole.

Awk-ward.

Yup - that's when I start looking for my coat.

[Dreadstar]

Noone likes when the asshole at the party sits down and explains why he's an asshole.

Awk-ward.

I guess it depends on the party.

[Ray R.]

Yup - that's when I start looking for my coat.

Honey? Did you leave the iron on?

[Jared_Humpherys]

Noone likes when the asshole at the party sits down and explains why he's an asshole.

Awk-ward.

So you're saying I should leave it to their imagination?

Duly noted.

[Justin Davis]

Agreed, let's move on.

This thread has humped the shark.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/scottandkat/Shark/WW101.jpg

That is one confusing, yet awesome cover.

However, I so don't want this to devolve into a thread about cats and lebians and whatever else. Aaaaaannnnoyyyyyinggggg.

[Shade]

Seriously, I'm really craving wings now, guys.

Same here. I spent the last 10 minutes rummaging through my desk trying to find money to stop and get wings on the way home.

[Ray R.]

So you're saying I should leave it to their imagination?

Duly noted.

Imagination?

We hold these truths to be self-evident.....

[Lone Ranger]

Honey? Did you leave the iron on?

"Would you look at the time! We promised the sitter we'd be home by 8:52"

[Jared_Humpherys]

Imagination?

We hold these truths to be self-evident.....

Not all @$$holes are created equal.

I consider myself of superior stock.

[Ray R.]

I guess it depends on the party.

"Dad? You really had to tell Bubbles the Clown to shut the fuck up for a minute?"

[Mac Danny]

"Dad? You really had to tell Bubbles the Clown to shut the fuck up for a minute?"

Well, if I'd known it was going to be that kind of party, I'd a stuck my dick in the mashed potatoes..

[Valmore]

How I long for the days of Tom banning Fly on April 1st.

[Michael P]

That is one confusing, yet awesome cover.

However, I so don't want this to devolve into a thread about cats and lebians and whatever else. Aaaaaannnnoyyyyyinggggg.

Well, maybe I can help with that.

I've largely kept quiet about this because, well, I'm a pussy. I get socially nervous when two people I consider friends fight, because I feel like stepping in on behalf of one or the other, or even just trying to calm them down, might start a chain-reaction of drama that ends up costing me a friendship. I don't have that many friends to begin with, so I tend to avoid anything that might lose the few I do.

However, I feel that my silence in this case may have caused me to lose some respect in the eyes of people whose opinions I value. I also know that it's caused me to lose a little bit of respect for myself. So, if only for myself, I feel I've gotta speak up about matters.

Truth be told, I'm not happy with the way either Alex or Morts behaved. Nobody's come out of this one clean in my eyes. Alex perpetuated what, to me, is a pattern of obnoxious behavior directed solely at one poster with whom he just doesn't get along. This was underscored by some PMs where he said what, to me, were some hurtful and condescending things about the friendship between Morts, myself, and Jeff. I'm not going to go into details, but I think what he said in those PMs was out of line and underscores his lack of understanding of Morts as a person. Bottom line, I think Alex's distaste for Morts as a person is his own business, not the board's, and I'd honestly rather not have to deal with it. When I walk into Rocketship, I don't want to feel worried about what topics might come up in conversation, and what side of an argument I might have to come down on.

As for Morts... well, if he weren't already on a self-imposed sabbatical, I'd tell him to turn around and look through some binoculars at the infinitesimal point in the distance kissing the horizon, because that's the line. I've posted about my own problems here, and I'd feel pretty well pissed off and betrayed if someone threw them in my face in an argument. I was shocked and offended by what he said, and I should have said so, but, again, I'm a pussy. I like and respect Morts for his good qualities, but for the first time, I understand what he's talking about when he says he's not a very good person. And I also don't appreciate being pulled in his direction in these arguments either. When I walk into his house, I don't want to feel like I might have to defend someone against my host's comments.

One of the few things I did say was to suggest that Morts and Alex just put each other on ignore. They've done so, and to me that's a good enough end to it. I sincerely hope that the book on this is closed, sealed, and locked away in a safe at the bottom of the ocean. It's obvious to me that neither can say anything nice about the other, so I hope in the future they'll take the high road and just say nothing at all.

[thehod]

I've largely kept quiet about this because, well, I'm a pussy. I get socially nervous when two people I consider friends fight, because I feel like stepping in on behalf of one or the other, or even just trying to calm them down, might start a chain-reaction of drama that ends up costing me a friendship. I don't have that many friends to begin with.

I have to say that this is similar to my own feelings over the last few days. I struggle with confrontation enough when I can see peoples body language and gauge their tone, on a message board I I've jumped on people before on this message board when I've misinterpreted what's been said and been warned for it, so my policy is to back off when situations like this start. Does that make me a worse person for not calling someone out when they've said something abhorant, probably, but thats just me.

To me it seems a bit of a shame that the situation has escalated to this level and a cooling off period does seem like the best resolution all round.

I've enjoyed conversing with and reading the posts of both Morts and Alex in the past and I, for one, would hope that we can get back to that position.

[Kid Omega]

This was underscored by some PMs where he said what, to me, were some hurtful and condescending things about the friendship between Morts, myself, and Jeff. I'm not going to go into details, but I think what he said in those PMs was out of line and underscores his lack of understanding of Morts as a person.

It was a single (joking) pm explaining to jeff why I thought the prank was transparent, with the additional (sincere) warning that the prank would likely upset everyone and hurt some feelings.

If anyone wants to read it, I will pass it along. Jeff's response to me was a verbal shoulder-shrug, which is what I expected from a sarcastic pm. I didn't realize it would become a bone of contention that would paint me as a moustache twirling villain.

I apologize if any feelings were hurt- that wasn't ever an intention.

[Michael P]

It was a single (joking) pm explaining to jeff why I thought the prank was transparent, with the additional (sincere) warning that the prank would likely upset everyone and hurt some feelings.

If anyone wants to read it, I will pass it along. Jeff's response to me was a verbal shoulder-shrug, which is what I expected from a sarcastic pm. I didn't realize it would become a bone of contention that would paint me as a moustache twirling villain.

I apologize if any feelings were hurt- that wasn't ever an intention.

Apology accepted.

[Justin Davis]

Fuck it ?

[Brian Cronin]

Most of you know I'm good friends with Alex and many of you know that I have been accused many a time of "covering" for him, but I have to say (and Alex already knows this), that when the question of "administrative action" came up, I came down on the side of this offense NOT being ban-worthy. It was a statement that I found stomach-churningly offensive and the subsequent half-assed non-apologies only made it worse in my eyes, but I'm of the opinion that something like that needs to be policed by the community, not from on high. To me, that was the most upsetting thing about the whole episode: that very few people who read those words had much to say at all about it. The takeaway from that is that the community thinks the person who typed those words is somehow beyond reproach and the person to whom those words were directed somehow deserved them.

Well, obviously, I agree, as I didn't ban Morts.

But I'll say this much - I wasn't particularly prepared (as it really hasn't come up in the past) with the notion of running to YABS to bitch about stuff on the Comm Board. In the future, I think I will treat such stuff as actions I can regulate, and I'll punish accordingly (to wit, in this instance, the ridiculous YABS stuff, coupled with the Comm stuff, would be reason for me to ban a poster).

-Brian

[jobies201]

Alright, maybe I'm a n00b, but what the HELL is YABS?!?

[Just a Shadow]

What is this YABS i keep on hearing about?

[GozertheGozarian]

If you have to ask, you're not ready for the anarchic insanity of YABS.

[Dan Apodaca]

Man, sometimes it stinks to be so right about someone.

That was some seriously shameful behavior on Typo's part. Maybe now, people will start to see him more clearly for who he is.

It's gets easier and easier to stay away.

[Brian Cronin]

You'll All Be Sorry.

Another forum on CBR.

-Brian

[Corrina]

I liked Gozar's answer better. :D

[MacQuarrie]

Man, sometimes it stinks to be so right about someone.

That was some seriously shameful behavior on Typo's part. Maybe now, people will start to see him more clearly for who he is.

It's gets easier and easier to stay away.

Dan, if Morts were in fact the kind of person you think he is, he'd still be here, feeling no guilt or shame, acting like he'd done nothing wrong.

[Paul McEnery]

You'll All Be Sorry.

Another forum on CBR.

-Brian

That's their strapline!

[Dan Apodaca]

Dan, if Morts were in fact the kind of person you think he is, he'd still be here, feeling no guilt or shame, acting like he'd done nothing wrong.

That's what he seemed to be doing before the tide of public consensus turned against him.

[Puma]

That's what he seemed to be doing before the tide of public consensus turned against him.

No, he really was feeling bad about it.

[Corrina]

I don't think that always came across, Puma, not until his posts today. Those do convey some honest emotion and apologies.

It still sounded a lot like justification yesterday. Which is may not have been, but I perceived it that way, as did some others.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I just finally saw this thread, so I'm coming late to the party. I don't want to rile stuff up again, but I do want to say a couple things.

First off, Joe, thanks for starting this thread. You voiced a lot of stuff I was trying to figure out how to say, but I couldn't get it to come out in a way that would be likely to do anything but just stir up a shitstorm. I wasn't around yesterday until the evening, so I didn't see this whole thing develop until it was over. When I did see it, I felt like responding, but I just couldn't find the words, either last night or this morning when I tried again. You did it for me, Joe. Good job.

I was unspeakably disgusted by Typo's suicide comment, and the half-assed quasi-apologies and "yeah, I was a dick, but c'mon, have sympathy for me" comments just made it worse. I was, if anything, even more disgusted by a lot of what I saw from others yesterday and early today. I wasn't offended by the folk that didn't speak up at all - I figured a lot of them were just stunned and didn't know what to say or how to say it, like myself, or were uncomfortable being in the middle of something, like Michael noted. What I was offended by, and continue to find truly disgusting, is a number of folk who continued chatting and joking along with Typo as if nothing had happened. Like Tom said, I have a hard time seeing that response as anything but just a "whatever, let's just pretend it never happened 'cause I like Typo" sort of reaction, or a "gee, no matter how shitty someone behaves, it's better to just not upset the apple cart so I can keep joking along at CBR, so it's time to just forgive and forget" sort of mentality. Personally, I find that completely reprehensible. Some things probably shouldn't be forgiven at all, and certainly not so readily.

Although he and I have previously often disagreed, up until now I've generally liked and respected Typo. Although I have some sympathy for some things in his current life situation, right now I don't have any liking or respect for the guy. None at all. Maybe that will change with time, I dunno, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

I also lost a lot of liking and respect for some other other folk here since this all hit the fan yesterday, including some I'd previously held in pretty high regard. I'm not going to point fingers or name names, but if anyone is wondering if he or she is one of the folk I'm talking about, look at your behavior yesterday and today and at what I wrote above. If your behavior falls in the category I described above, yep, you are. If not, you aren't. I'm not going to say any more about that in open forum, though. I don't see how doing so could possibly accomplish anything positive.

Anyhow, I was disgusted enough by all this shit - and by, as others have noted, how much this place has gradually become one where sharing one's personal life is just plain a bad idea - that last night and throughout today, I gave a lot of thought to just giving up on CBR. I still might do that, much as I'd miss some people and some aspects of the place. This thread has helped sway me some in the other direction, though. So, for that, thanks again Joe, and thanks also to Tom, Ed, Helix, Dread, Lone Ranger, Matt, Ray, Paul and some other folks.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

It was a statement that I found stomach-churningly offensive and the subsequent half-assed non-apologies only made it worse in my eyes, but I'm of the opinion that something like that needs to be policed by the community, not from on high.

When you were Mod of this board you used to argue with people who said that.


To me, that was the most upsetting thing about the whole episode: that very few people who read those words had much to say at all about it. The takeaway from that is that the community thinks the person who typed those words is somehow beyond reproach and the person to whom those words were directed somehow deserved them.

No, most of us just didn't want to get involved in what was obviously a long running personal feud.
In a lot of our cases, it was already ten pages past in the thread when we read it, and had already been remarked upon by several, and no mod had taken action.

What exactly were we to do?
Hassle one to apologize, and maybe one to forgive (not that he had to by any means).

I honestly see nothing wrong with people staying the hell away from something like that, and I think telling people they should step in is the wrong approach from a moderator.

Personally I'm a bit thrown as to how creating a separate account for a 'prank' which involves making people think that someone from the board is dead or injured isn't worthy of a temp-ban - the account is even still open even though it's known to be a double account - let alone what was said afterwards.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

What I was offended by, and continue to find truly disgusting, is a number of folk who continued chatting and joking along with Typo as if nothing had happened. Like Tom said, I have a hard time seeing that response as anything but just a "whatever, let's just pretend it never happened 'cause I like Typo" sort of reaction, or a "gee, no matter how shitty someone behaves, it's better to just not upset the apple cart so I can keep joking along at CBR, so it's time to just forgive and forget" sort of mentality. Personally, I find that completely reprehensible. Some things probably shouldn't be forgiven at all, and certainly not so readily.

I think you'll find a lot of that of people were thinking the comment was so out of character that they really didn't know how to react to it.

As for forgiveness, that's up to KO - forgetting/remembering... now that's something up to everyone as individuals.

[bert]

I seriously debated even getting involved in this publicly (I've been talking to Morts in private). . . but I felt I needed to toss in my 2cents.

was his comment insensitive? Absolutely

was it over the line? Absolutely

can I understand why he went there so quickly?

as someone who has been the recipient of Alex's cyber-bullying
(yes, as I've pointed out in he past, he (and Joe too) are the big two reasons why I no longer post on the Community board despite having many friends here), yes.

Would I have posted something like that? Most likely not.

but I can see how Morts would be so quick to go there. . . when someone you don't like, who doesn't like you, is picking on you, a person tends to throw out something hurtful.

I've said some nasty things to Alex/Joe, but I don't think I would have gone to the place Morts went.

and yes, he *did* feel bad about it two days ago. . he just wasn't sure exactly HOW to react once he realized that he went over the line.

so I don't really condone it, but at least I can understand why he went there.

anyways. . just my two cents.

[Tages]

So...yeah.

I've been trying to stay out of the drama. Not because I don't care, but because the sheer enormity of it has me baffled as to what would be the proper response, other than to shun the guilty party until he atones for what he said.

No. It's more than that.

I saw what Typo wrote and it really, really got to me. Not because I've dealt with depression, but because I remember saying stuff about as bad to people on here when I got really, really upset. Thing is, to date I've always had a change of heart soon afterwards and gone back to edit it.

Still, it's disturbing to see something that so precisely mirrors my own flaws. And when I think of all the sensitive stuff I've shared on here, and on the phone and in person with a couple of people on here, the thought of it being thrown back in my face like that made me understand what had just happened to Alex.

So I decided to not talk to Morts anymore, at least until he makes right, and avoid the drama altogether. Posts like those on this thread made me realize that my silence could be interpreted as consent. Not that I'm self-centered enough to think anyone was especially thinking to themselves "I wonder what Jason's opinion is?" I just want to clarify that consent is not what I meant at all.

I'm sorry, really sorry I didn't speak up earlier. Alex, you're a right guy, and didn't deserve that.

And I'm no good at these situations, so I'll just end with saying that I hope we can turn this into an opportunity to make this a better community.

[Athena Bast]

I seriously debated even getting involved in this publicly (I've been talking to Morts in private). . . but I felt I needed to toss in my 2cents.

was his comment insensitive? Absolutely

was it over the line? Absolutely

can I understand why he went there so quickly?

as someone who has been the recipient of Alex's cyber-bullying
(yes, as I've pointed out in he past, he (and Joe too) are the big two reasons why I no longer post on the Community board despite having many friends here), yes.

Would I have posted something like that? Most likely not.

but I can see how Morts would be so quick to go there. . . when someone you don't like, who doesn't like you, is picking on you, a person tends to throw out something hurtful.

I've said some nasty things to Alex/Joe, but I don't think I would have gone to the place Morts went.

and yes, he *did* feel bad about it two days ago. . he just wasn't sure exactly HOW to react once he realized that he went over the line.

so I don't really condone it, but at least I can understand why he went there.

anyways. . just my two cents.

/sign (if I may bert since we have butted heads in the past)

Now, I'd like to add if I may to this conversation what little I can.

I post on another message board where remarks like what was said and WORSE are said everyday, hell, every hour if not minute. I was surprised however how it seemed to get over on CBR since this is a near completely different animal than the former.

I am surprised M did go there since I often thought he would be one of the people in line to condemn someone else for doing the same.

I just didn't know what to think really.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I think you'll find a lot of that of people were thinking the comment was so out of character that they really didn't know how to react to it.

Well, like I said, I can certainly understand not knowing how to react, or not reacting at all due to such uncertaintly. I don't have any problem with that. My problem is with those who appeared to be completely unfazed and not bothered at all by what was said, and I'm also not particularly thrilled with people that were quick with the "wow, that sucked, bad Typo, now let's all just not say anything more and go along with business as usual" sorts of posts. Better to withdraw or maintain silence than to behave in a manner suggesting nothing bad had happened, or to minimize or effectively trivialize what had occurred.

I suppose it's possible some people were so confused that they were either in denial, or just behaved as if it hadn't happened until they could process what was said and sort out how to respond - and if I truly am mischaracterizing the reactions of any such individuals, I offer them my apology - but what I'm talking about didn't look at all like that, and it's not like I'm exactly unfamiliar with the ways people engage in denial and other defensive strategies.

As for forgiveness, that's up to KO - forgetting/remembering... now that's something up to everyone as individuals.

I rather disagree. Deplorable things which happen in a public context are an offense not just to the individual(s) targeted but also to the community at large. This is rather why we try people by jury, rather than just consider the perspective of the harmed party in determing whether a wrong has been done. Now, certainly Alex was vastly more harmed by what Typo did than anyone else could possibly claim, but it's also okay for other people to take offense.

[Wesley Dodds]

I wasn't offended by the folk that didn't speak up at all - I figured a lot of them were just stunned and didn't know what to say or how to say it, like myself, or were uncomfortable being in the middle of something, like Michael noted. What I was offended by, and continue to find truly disgusting, is a number of folk who continued chatting and joking along with Typo as if nothing had happened. Like Tom said, I have a hard time seeing that response as anything but just a "whatever, let's just pretend it never happened 'cause I like Typo" sort of reaction, or a "gee, no matter how shitty someone behaves, it's better to just not upset the apple cart so I can keep joking along at CBR, so it's time to just forgive and forget" sort of mentality. Personally, I find that completely reprehensible. Some things probably shouldn't be forgiven at all, and certainly not so readily.

That's interesting, because I feel the opposite way -- I'm angry that more of the people who are making denunciations now didn't speak up at the time. It's easy to take a moral stand the next day -- much harder to stop friends from doing even more damage to themselves.

For what it's worth, I have no idea how you and Tom got this idea that we were giving Morts a pass. Apparently we weren't clear enough when we told
him he was a fuckwad.

Look, if I didn't think Morts was contrite I'd have him on Ignore now too. As long as he sincerely tries to make it up to people I'm going to support him with that.

[Valmore]

You know, I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this. Maybe it's hard for me, because I generally try to get along with as many people as possible, be it in the actual world or on the internet. I tend to disagree with some people here, and by some, I mean many. And yeah, there are times when I've probably lashed out over something. I'd like to think I was never that bad, but what the heck do I remember? Most people tend to think better of their own actions until it's pointed out to them.

But I'm pretty certain I've never even considered telling anyone they should contemplate suicide.

All over a lame prank. And it was lame. And maybe Alex was a little over the top in pointing out how lame it was. But it certainly didn't warrant something as nasty as that. Suicide isn't funny, as it banks on the falsehood that nobody would miss you if you weren't there.

It's silly to think everyone is going to get along perfectly - it never happens.

It's weird, because this is kind of like when you burn the top of your mouth. It hurts a lot, but you can't help messing with it with your tongue. I want to ignore all of this, but for some reason I can't.

I'm not certain I buy the idea that the community should be policing this. Piling up on obvious spammers? Sure - that's fun. But this certain looks like something that should have fallen under the jurisdiction and action of a moderator. Any moderator.

But maybe I'm wrong.

[JeffreyWKramer]

That's interesting, because I feel the opposite way -- I'm angry that more of the people who are making denunciations now didn't speak up at the time. It's easy to take a moral stand the next day -- much harder to stop friends from doing even more damage to themselves.

I'd have probably said something - and no doubt have just made things worse - at the time had I been on at the time. As I noted, after the fact, I didn't know what the fuck to say.

And how exactly does joking around with the guy that has just said something unbelievably cruel and vile constitute trying to stop him from doing even more damage? Is that, what, Bizarro-world tough love?

For what it's worth, I have no idea how you and Tom got this idea that we were giving Morts a pass. Apparently we weren't clear enough when we told him he was a fuckwad.

If someone says "You're a fuckwad" and then goes back to business as usual, it's hard to view that as anything *but* giving the person a pass. I sure don't see such behavior as suggesting the offense was regarded as much of a big deal.

How bad does behavior have to be before it warrants more than a brief comment, then everyone laughing together like at the end of an inane sitcom? If a person's friend fucks that person's child, should the person handle it with "Man, that was out of line, but hey, do you wanna come over and have a beer with me tomorrow night?"

And before you or anyone accuses me of hyperbole, I want to again remind - Typo told a guy that he knows to have talked openly about being very depressed and thinking about suicide to go kill himself. That is not just a faux pas or an "oops, my bad" moment.

Look, if I didn't think Morts was contrite I'd have him on Ignore now too. As long as he sincerely tries to make it up to people I'm going to support him with that.

Words of contrition are all it takes? Yeah, we aren't on the same page, and it looks extremely unlikely that's going to change.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I'm not certain I buy the idea that the community should be policing this. Piling up on obvious spammers? Sure - that's fun. But this certain looks like something that should have fallen under the jurisdiction and action of a moderator. Any moderator.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Given some of what results in bans, I am sort of surprised - well, frankly pretty appalled - this wasn't a perma-ban.

But I guess this is another one of those things, like being a complete fucking habitual liar, where it isn't specifically against the CBR rules - just, you know, against every basic rule of civil discourse - so no official action is warranted.

Gosh, it's a good thing Typo didn't do something real awful like make fun of shitty comics on one of the comics-specific forums or write "fuck" on the TV/Movies board.

[Charles RB]

What I was offended by, and continue to find truly disgusting, is a number of folk who continued chatting and joking along with Typo as if nothing had happened. Like Tom said, I have a hard time seeing that response as anything but just a "whatever, let's just pretend it never happened 'cause I like Typo" sort of reaction

I fully admit that I continued on as-per partly because I like Typo (and partly because I didn't feel I should get involved in the shitstorm & like Bert got where he was coming from), and you're right to find that wrong and I should have the balls to say "no, that's not on".

[morna]

so, Jeffery and Wesley, are you guys talking about those who were there in Yabs when this actually happened or are you levelling criticism upon all of us?

[Ed Cunard]

I fully admit that I continued on as-per partly because I like Typo (and partly because I didn't feel I should get involved in the shitstorm & like Bert got where he was coming from), and you're right to find that wrong and I should have the balls to say "no, that's not on".

See, that's the thing I don't like about this. It's almost as if it's ok to tell Alex to kill himself because, well, he's Alex and we hate him. I've got mad love for the people who, early on, said "wow, I don't like Alex, but that was totally fucked."

I mean, if the shoe was on the other foot--if... hmm. I hate to drag anyone into this. Think of the most well-liked and hugs-n-kisses poster that no one has any beef with--I'm sure the reaction would be BAN THE HERETIC! BAN BAN BAN BAN! if someone said they should kill themselves when it's public knowledge they suffer from depression.

I'll use DarkBlade because I think she'd be Ok with it, considering her distaste for the April Fool's pranks in general. Heck, I bet a simple "Fuck you, Deeb, I hate you" would prompt the same reaction in some cases.

[Ed Cunard]

so, Jeffery and Wesley, are you guys talking about those who were there in Yabs when this actually happened or are you levelling criticism upon all of us?

I'd think if someone wasn't commenting on the original thread before this thread (in Rita's, YABS, or in that original thread), they'd probably be safe from condemnation--I mean, shit, if you called me a "fucking cock-nobbing retardo-pants who should die" in a wrestling thread, I wouldn't have beef if no one I knew said that was out of line, because most of the people I know (myself included) don't read the wrestling threads.

Come to think of it, everyone likes you. I could have used you in my example.

[Wesley Dodds]

Words of contrition are all it takes? Yeah, we aren't on the same page, and it looks extremely unlikely that's going to change.

It's fine if we don't agree. Anyway, it's not just words, it's that you back them up. Paul's idea that he self-ban was a good one.

And before you or anyone accuses me of hyperbole, I want to again remind - Typo told a guy that he knows to have talked openly about being very depressed and thinking about suicide to go kill himself. That is not just a faux pas or an "oops, my bad" moment.

I agree -- but I don't think he was in his right mind when he said it. I'm making an allowance for him because his personal problems are severe.

At a certain point you have to say "enough's enough" and stop using personal problems to excuse bad behaviour. If Morts keeps this up I'm going to feel exactly the way you feel now.

I do think your stance is valid -- this is mainly just a personality difference. I never feel justified in damning people for their actions.

[JeffreyWKramer]

so, Jeffery and Wesley, are you guys talking about those who were there in Yabs when this actually happened or are you levelling criticism upon all of us?

The only ones I'm criticizing were those who knew what had happened, and specifically what Typo had said, and who just ignored it and kept up joshing with Typo like he was just the nicest and funniest guy in the world and hadn't just said something completely fucking cruel and evil.

Anyone to whom that doesn't apply, I'm not talking about.

[Wesley Dodds]

The only ones I'm criticizing were those who knew what had happened, and specifically what Typo had said, and who just ignored it and kept up joshing with Typo like he was just the nicest and funniest guy in the world and hadn't just said something completely fucking cruel and evil.

Anyone to whom that doesn't apply, I'm not talking about.

Look, Jeffrey -- name names. If you want to keep this up, name names. Because right now you're just being cute.

[Jack Zodiac]

I think, like Matt, a lot of us were just really fucking confused and unsure. Honestly, I didn't know Alex had been having those kinds of problems in his life, and I didn't know he and Morts were on the outs, so when that broke out in the middle his prank, I thought it was just like "Act II." Though, even if I knew it were honestly going down, I don't know if I would've or could've stepped in. I don't know either of them that well, despite how much I like and respect them both.

[Athena Bast]

Look, Jeffrey -- name names. If you want to keep this up, name names. Because right now you're just being cute.

Why pour more kerosene on the fire?

Forgive me if that's just too rude.

[Wesley Dodds]

Why pour more kerosene on the fire?

Forgive me if that's just too rude.

Yeah, you're right. I've lost my temper so I should just quit.

Forget it, Jeffrey. We don't agree, but whatever.

Like a lot of people I'm a bit sick of this place for the time being.

[howyadoin]

Look, Jeffrey -- name names. If you want to keep this up, name names. Because right now you're just being cute.Not one of your better ideas, Wes.

Unless another shitstorm is what you want, of course.

[Wesley Dodds]

Not one of your better ideas, Wes.

Unless another shitstorm is what you want, of course.

You're right, I agree.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Like a lot of people I'm a bit sick of this place for the time being.

A few people can fuck up the whole place for you?

Weird.

[Athena Bast]

A few people can fuck up the whole place for you?

Weird.

According to my boss at work, 2 people are the whole fucking world if you dislike them.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Look, Jeffrey -- name names. If you want to keep this up, name names. Because right now you're just being cute.

No, I'm not being cute. I assure you, I'm not feeling the least bit cutesy about this. I'm in fact having a lot of difficulty not telling off a bunch of people, probably in a way that will offend a bunch of other people and get a lot of people defensive and probably get me banned, and I'm also having a lot of difficulty caring if people get offended or if I get banned over something like that when stuff like what Typo did gets a fucking pass and a bunch of handwringing and zero mod response.

The people in question know who they are, and so do a lot of other people, including Tom and Ed and others who have commented on the same fucking thing. There's no point in me naming names and pointing fingers. All that would do is turn this into a me vs. them thing, and have people taking sides and sending a bunch of snarky PMs back and forth rather than keeping the focus where it belongs.

People did what they did, and they either own up to it - as Charles did, to his credit - or they ignore it or rationalize it or blame it on Alex or call people who aren't happy about this "drama queens" or whatever. Either way, my posting my "I think you're an asshole" list isn't going to accomplish anything positive.

I'll put it plain. You don't tell depressed people to kill themselves. Sometimes that results in someone being dead. There is absolutely no excuse for such behavior. None. Period. No matter how upset, anyone aware enough to be finding the keys on a keyboard should be aware enough to not engage in that sort of behavior, and anyone who doesn't recognize that, my calling them on it probably isn't going to make a difference.

And really, I've already said more than I intended on this, and at least right now, I'm not going to say any more or discuss this further, because I am seriously pissed off right now and my perspective is quickly swinging back to the "this place isn't worth the time" mindset at the moment.

[Wesley Dodds]

A few people can fuck up the whole place for you?

Weird.

Well, you have the healthiest attitude of anyone at CBR, everyone else probably looks mental to you.

[Charles RB]

See, that's the thing I don't like about this. It's almost as if it's ok to tell Alex to kill himself because, well, he's Alex and we hate him.

By "see where he was coming from" I meant "being severely pissed off with someone over stuff", not anything to do with Alex.

[Wesley Dodds]

And really, I've already said more than I intended on this, and at least right now, I'm not going to say any more or discuss this further, because I am seriously pissed off right now and my perspective is quickly swinging back to the "this place isn't worth the time" mindset at the moment.

You're right -- I'm feeling the same way. Neither one of us is thinking clearly. I'm sorry for bringing it up.

[Corrina]

I'm not certain I buy the idea that the community should be policing this. Piling up on obvious spammers? Sure - that's fun. But this certain looks like something that should have fallen under the jurisdiction and action of a moderator. Any moderator.

But maybe I'm wrong.

When Morts brought it to YABS, I told him to stand down with the justification, that it wasn't a proper apology, it was an explanation. I also told him and Joe Rice to cool it and take it either to PM, because, well, it seemed very strange to have suddenly spilled over to YABS. And it spilled over to YABS because Morts started a thread that he had the intelligence to realize would pull in posters not happy with his behavior on Comm.

1. I didn't get involved further because Morts stopped and the original offense is not on my board. People with much more experience and familiarity are the mods here, as it should be. I'm pretty sure a lot of Comm posters wouldn't be happy with YABs-style rules which sorta boil down to "rules? we don't need no stinkin' rulz!"

2. I also really have no problems with Joe Rice calling out Morts on that thread--but I just wanted it taken out of YABS and into PMs before it completely melted down yet another board.

[howyadoin]

When Morts brought it to YABS, I told him to stand down with the justification, that it wasn't a proper apology, it was an explanation. I also told him and Joe Rice to cool it and take it either to PM, because, well, it seemed very strange to have suddenly spilled over to YABS. And it spilled over to YABS because Morts started a thread that he had the intelligence to realize would pull in posters not happy with his behavior on Comm.

1. I didn't get involved further because Morts stopped and the original offense is not on my board. People with much more experience and familiarity are the mods here, as it should be. I'm pretty sure a lot of Comm posters wouldn't be happy with YABs-style rules which sorta boil down to "rules? we don't need no stinkin' rulz!"

2. I also really have no problems with Joe Rice calling out Morts on that thread--but I just wanted it taken out of YABS and into PMs before it completely melted down yet another board.Hang on. YABS is actually moderated now?

[Charles RB]

zero mod response.

They've turned up for less, so I'm still bemused why this is a "handle it in the community" issue (I know I've seen mods here say there shouldn't be handling in the community) w/ the exception of Corrina at Yabs.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Well, you have the healthiest attitude of anyone at CBR, everyone else probably looks mental to you.

Ha!
It might be more like I've had a really, really shitty past few months and so this just doesn't seem that bad too me.
Bad, sure, but not bad enough that people not directly involved (friends or not) should be angry at the community at large.

We can all sit and point fingers etc, but really, there's only two people who need to sort this one out.

According to my boss at work, 2 people are the whole fucking world if you dislike them.

Well, there is some truth to that, but in this situation, it is easy enough to ignore/avoid the people.
It just annoys me when something like this happens and people get angry/disappointed with everyone at CBR/Comm board - it can't really be that bad, or do you really not enjoy yourself here that much that somehting like this can sour the whole thing for you.

[Jack Zodiac]

Hang on. YABS is actually moderated now?

That's a rather liberal interpretation. YABS has moderators now, if that's what you mean.

[Ed Cunard]

By "see where he was coming from" I meant "being severely pissed off with someone over stuff", not anything to do with Alex.

Ah, sorry for misreading you--Bert had said specifically how he understood because of how Joe and Alex are big bullies (and how Joe even entered into it, I have no idea, because this really was a Morts and Alex thing), and I thought you were playing off of that part of it.

Or, shorter, "my bad, yo."

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

They've turned up for less, so I'm still bemused why this is a "handle it in the community" issue (I know I've seen mods here say there shouldn't be handling in the community) w/ the exception of Corrina at Yabs.

Until Tom's post I've always seen Mods say otherwise, and the first time we hear that when someone says something nasty we're supposed to jump all over them, it's said scornfully to us.

[howyadoin]

EDIT: Never mind. That wasn't anything useful.

[Puma]

Until Tom's post I've always seen Mods say otherwise, and the first time we hear that when someone says something nasty we're supposed to jump all over them, it's said scornfully to us.

Two times this week something extremely offensive has been said and there was no mod response to either.

[Corrina]

Hang on. YABS is actually moderated now?

Sorta.
If you behave like an asshole from the get go and never change, we tell you to go away. At least, as far as I can tell. I just go by "What would Gail Do?" (And the political thread is a totally mod-free zone.)

But this a side issue and I do not want to derail the thread anymore than I have, as what Joe wanted to say and what others wanted to say should be the focus.

[Jack Zodiac]

If you behave like an asshole from the get go and never change, we tell you to go away.

Except for me. I get a free pass on being an asshole because I'm so cool.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Two times this week something extremely offensive has been said and there was no mod response to either.

I only saw this one, and although I was surprised there wasn't a ban, I wasn't exactly annoyed about it until this thread.
I don't want insanely strict mods - I'd never be allowed to post! - and judgement calls are cool, I just don't want to get looked down on by them for not doing anything about it.

[morna]

Two times this week something extremely offensive has been said and there was no mod response to either.

I was avoiding bringing this up but ya there was more than one bizarre thing happening - which has undoubtedly contributed to what some see as lack of action.

[Charles RB]

Until Tom's post I've always seen Mods say otherwise, and the first time we hear that when someone says something nasty we're supposed to jump all over them, it's said scornfully to us.

Two times this week something extremely offensive has been said and there was no mod response to either.

I was going under the assumption that the mods stop in and say "oi" when people say nasty things to each other. Unless they're not aware of it, which I get coz it's a big board and they can't see everything, but in this case they were aware. The thread in question still exists though.

[Puma]

I was avoiding bringing this up but ya there was more than one bizarre thing happening - which has undoubtedly contributed to what some see as lack of action.

and it's why I was avoiding this thread. I'm having a hard time separating how I feel about both incidents.

[bfrank]

I was going under the assumption that the mods stop in and say "oi" when people say nasty things to each other. Unless they're not aware of it, which I get coz it's a big board and they can't see everything, but in this case they were aware. The thread in question still exists though.

It is a bit odd considering I once saw a poster get a warning for calling another a liar.....Even though it was clear the other was lying.....

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I was avoiding bringing this up but ya there was more than one bizarre thing happening - which has undoubtedly contributed to what some see as lack of action.

But this could just be the price for being treated like adults - do we really want to say 'hey, we need you to control our conversations'?

I'm not annoyed at them for not getting involved, I'm annoyed at being told this is our fault.

[bert]

Ah, sorry for misreading you--Bert had said specifically how he understood because of how Joe and Alex are big bullies (and how Joe even entered into it, I have no idea, because this really was a Morts and Alex thing), and I thought you were playing off of that part of it.

Or, shorter, "my bad, yo."

actually, that's not what I said.

I mentioned that to give a frame of reference. . but I actually said how I understand how you can get into an argument with someone you hate, and they hate you, and you say something really hurtful just to cause a reaction.

Charles understood what I meant there

EDIT to drop in what I actually said in my post:
"but I can see how Morts would be so quick to go there. . . when someone you don't like, who doesn't like you, is picking on you, a person tends to throw out something hurtful."


(and Joe entered into it, because he started this thread, and he and Alex *do* tend to be a team -- where there's one, you usually find the other).

I wouldn't have even known what happened over here if Morts and Joe hadn't gotten into it over at YABS, and I came over to see what the heck was going on.

[Ray R.]

But this could just be the price for being treated like adults - do we really want to say 'hey, we need you to control our conversations'?

I'm not annoyed at them for not getting involved, I'm annoyed at being told this is our fault.

Hmmm.....

My request for "administrative action" was in order to establish a standard for behavior, or rather set a boundary for misbehavior.

Telling someone who's posted about having suicidal thoughts to go kill themselves and get it over with, that's boundary-crossing.

Telling someone who made a non-offensive joke that they're an anti-religious scold, and stating in an angry tone "fuck you," that's boundary-crossing.

Again, in relation to both incidents, there were non-compromising words said. They're there in black-and-white. Reading Rita's can be a hassle because it's like trying to hold a fistful of sand, it moves so fast, but they're there.

The point remains that the moderator is there to moderate language and behavior, not rely on peer pressure to self-police. I hate to bring it up, but there have been numerous times where "self-policing" has been done, and all it has generated is cries of "clique," "favoritism," "dogpiling," and "whoever is willing to bark the longest and loudest wins." And repeated mod admonitions to report the post and don't administer board justice on the fly.

Parsing this out to include cross-board postings and mitigating factors does the community a disservice. I like and respect virtually all of the mods here, but letting these incidents go sets a really bad precedent that hurtful words aren't hurtful and shouldn't be duly punished if people recognize and comment about how hurtful they are.

I still think temporary bannings are necessary, not self-imposed exiles or self-serving apologies. If they don't happen, well, that's Brian's decision, and I'm willing to live with it. But it's bad precedent for the future of this board.

[JeffreyWKramer]

It is a bit odd considering I once saw a poster get a warning for calling another a liar.....Even though it was clear the other was lying.....

At CBR, it isn't against the rules to be a liar, but it's against the rules to call someone a liar, even if they are clearly a liar.

I was told that by a mod. Yet, when I put that in my signature, I was told I couldn't keep it in my sig, even though it's true.

So, I guess this particular event is at least consistent with that twisted sort of reasoning.

[Ed Cunard]

actually, that's not what I said.

I mentioned that to give a frame of reference. . but I actually said how I understand how you can get into an argument with someone you hate, and they hate you, and you say something really hurtful just to cause a reaction.

Charles understood what I meant there

EDIT to drop in what I actually said in my post:
"but I can see how Morts would be so quick to go there. . . when someone you don't like, who doesn't like you, is picking on you, a person tends to throw out something hurtful."


(and Joe entered into it, because he started this thread, and he and Alex *do* tend to be a team -- where there's one, you usually find the other).

I wouldn't have even known what happened over here if Morts and Joe hadn't gotten into it over at YABS, and I came over to see what the heck was going on.

To drop back in the part I was referring to:


as someone who has been the recipient of Alex's cyber-bullying
(yes, as I've pointed out in he past, he (and Joe too) are the big two reasons why I no longer post on the Community board despite having many friends here), yes.

Joe had nothing to do with the original altercation. Joe didn't come into the original thing until a bunch of people did call Morts out on crossing the line. And, again, this almost sounds to me like "well, I get that Morts crossed the line, but Alex really is totally an asshole--and Joe too!--so I can understand where he was coming from." I mean, shit--that didn't need to be said. Most people know how much you hate Joe and Alex. When something like this comes up, you tend to mention it.

At least, though, you admitted that he did cross the line--much respect for that.

[kmeyers]

I'd think if someone wasn't commenting on the original thread before this thread (in Rita's, YABS, or in that original thread), they'd probably be safe from condemnation--I mean, shit, if you called me a "fucking cock-nobbing retardo-pants who should die" in a wrestling thread, I wouldn't have beef if no one I knew said that was out of line, because most of the people I know (myself included) don't read the wrestling threads.

Come to think of it,