Young Avengers Presents #3: Speed and Wiccan *Spoilers*

[drwho]

The art this issue was pretty clean and crisp. This issue just has Speed and Wiccan going around different parts of the world looking for Wanda. I think it was cool that the writer chose to use Master Pandemonium in this role since his supposed original connection to Wanda's twins that he attached to his body. My only problem with his use here was he was too docile and would have actually preferred seeing a battle between them than just talking. It revealed that the twins didn't have anything to do with MP like he thought, but still may have been concocted by Mephisto. I do kind of find it odd that they know who Mephisto is though. Don't know why Wiccan would have that info. Also in this issue Speed was much more likable than usual. A decent talking issue which would have been done better with some type of battling confrontation between the two and Master P.

[Sanctus]

I like the Patriot Issue more, but this was good, though the faces could have been better drawn. Speed did seem much cooler (and actually like the younger brother) in this issue. He definitely has quicksilver's temperament with a bit of added insecurity.

[Animalia]

I still haven't picked up the issue yet. My main ideal for this week was Secret Invasion. Did Wanda make an appearance in the issue? Did they see her?

[Brian M.]

I knew I forgot something...

[Michael P]

This book bugged the hell out of me. More later, after I've cooled down, but Marvel's probably going to get a letter from me.

[Animalia]

This book bugged the hell out of me. More later, after I've cooled down, but Marvel's probably going to get a letter from me.

It was that trippy! I need to get this issue!

[Pach!]

It was ok, I guess. I like the sibling relationship that Tommy and Billy had. And some scenes with Billy and Teddy were sweet..while others were quite cheesy.

I did enjoy the art though (Except for Teddy)

Overall it was enjoyable. 7/10

[Monty_Cristo]

i'm just wondering what the point of it was? maybe i'll like the Vision one-shot, better.

[Pach!]

i'm just wondering what the point of it was? maybe i'll like the Vision one-shot, better.

I think it's just to show kinda where their state of mind is right now. Not essential, but I enjoy them.

[Kid Icarus]

This was my favorite issue so far
both art and story wise
though there hasn't been that much development
in any of the issues.

I just wonder why Teddy felt the urge to be big and green in every appearance

[CaptainCanada]

Speed makes his first actual appearance in forever; he appeared in the Civil War tie-in miniseries, but never in the event itself, he never shows up in their guest appearances, and he was even omitted from all the group shots in the last issue; maybe it’s because he was introduced so late, but, seriously writers and artists, he is in fact on the team. Even here, Wiccan is the focal character, with all the narration, and the main role in the plot.

Now, with that said, Aguire-Sacasa does a good job with the brothers’ dynamic (such as the idea that Speed has, without any evidence, decided that he’s the older of the two), and includes some good scenes between Wiccan and Hulkling (although, once again, the team’s status quo makes absolutely no sense in light of the fact that Iron Man et al. know their names). The idea of Hulkling subbing for Wiccan to keep his parents happy is fun (where is Teddy living, exactly?).

There’s not really much of a plot; the brothers visit the usual locations (Wundagore, Genosha, their parents’ old home in New Jersey) to try and find Wanda, they fail, but stumble across Master Pandemonium, whose example makes them decide to just leave Wanda alone, wherever she is, and they go home. In a lot of respects, this series defines the pros and cons of done-in-one storytelling; it’s possible to tell an enjoyable story in one issue, but this is coupled here with the fact that there are not going to be any major changes made to the characters in what is essentially a filler miniseries. Now, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with status quo storytelling; in fact, some titles have a major problem because they never settle down to explore theirs (Amazing Spider-Man had this problem for years before BND). However, in retrospect, I think it would have been a better idea to do a six-issue team storyline with one set of creators, to allow for a more expansive canvas. That said, it’s a good issue, and Urusov’s art is nice and clean.

I’m really looking forward to the last three issues more than this and the previous one; first, Vision (and Vision/Stature) by Paul Cornell, then some writer attempts the rather difficult task of addressing Stature’s own status quo, and then Fraction and Davis on Hawkeye. With the recently announced SI tie-in, the Young Avengers will be in publication through August; I hope to God Marvel has something in the works after that, because this property needs some real forward movement.

[Seikun21]

This book bugged the hell out of me. More later, after I've cooled down, but Marvel's probably going to get a letter from me.

What did it do to bug the hell out of you?

[Michael P]

Okay, here was my problem with this issue: I wanted to punch Billy in the face every time he referred to the Scarlet Witch as his "real mom."

So, Billy and Tommy are, in their weird little way, basically kids who've were fostered at birth (they had no memory or idea that other people might have been their parents until recently). This puts the Kaplans and the Shepherds in the position of more or less adoptive parents. And that's where Billy's behavior starts pissing me off.

I, myself, am an adoptee, and I've noticed a tendency in comics for kids who find out they're adopted to suddenly seem as if they've jettisoned all feeling for the parents who actually raised them. It bugs the hell out of me, because I don't know a single adopted person who acts that way in real life. Those certainly aren't the feelings I had for my adoptive parents when I found out. After all, my adoptive parents are the ones who read me stories to put me to sleep. My adoptive parents are the ones who gave me video games and red Jell-O when I had my wisdom teeth out. My adoptive parents are the ones who were there for birthdays, graduations, my confirmation, prom night, and all the silly, human little moments in between. My adoptive parents, in short, *are* my real parents. And I'd never refer to them as anything but, or use that term to apply to anyone else. (Not surprisingly, almost the only book to ever get this right is Superman, the one that started the trend. Jor-El and Lara may be his heritage, but Ma and Pa Kent are, well, his Ma and Pa.)

Tommy, I can halfway understand attaching himself to the Scarlet Witch this way. Given where he ended up, it's clear the Shepherds weren't the best of parents. (Which raises the question, where the heck is he living these days? He can't have gone back to juvie, the YA are clearly not hanging out with the Mighty Avengers, and he doesn't seem to have anyplace else to call home. Is he living in the streets?) But the Kaplans, that's another story. We've seen time and again that they care about Billy, want what's best for him, and love him as if he was their own. Their history together may be a hex-induced retcon, but it's still real to them. And there's no reason why it oughtn't be equally real to Billy. For him to act so cavalierly towards them, and especially for him to lie to them like he did, and for it to be presented as natural and relateable behavior, well, like I said, it bugs the hell out of me.

I also wasn't wild about the art.

[seeso]

Michael P, thanks for offering a real-world opinion on that "real mother" issue. It got my goat also, but I'm not adopted, so I didn't know if my feelings were justified.

I thought the issue was blah. It didn't have any peaks or valleys, it just kind of sat there. The art was good, though.

One thing that really bugged me - why couldn't Wiccan just say, "iwanttobewiththescarletwitchiwanttobewiththescarle twitchiwanttobewiththescarletwitch..."?

Kind of a big plot hole, I thought.

[MuhollandDriver]

The brother scenes were great.

The boyfriend scenes, while well intentioned, could have been better.

P Town? San Fran? *laughs*

Let's get Patriot some fried chicken while we are at it.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Okay, here was my problem with this issue: I wanted to punch Billy in the face every time he referred to the Scarlet Witch as his "real mom."

Totally reasonable, and I appreciate the well thought out comments. I have been an educator, and while teaching I've had several students in my classes who were adopted. My co-workers and I who taught one child in particular were given a lot of helpful info from the child's parents, on more sensitive and responsible wording for one. Being thoughtful enough, for if the topic comes up, whether from the child or a peer, to refrain from word usage like "real" parents, as it is as demeaning and thoughtless as referring to someone whose parents' aren't married as illegitimate. Although I disagree about the art, I wholly understand your perspective and I'm really glad you shared that with us, hopefully you can help enlighten a few people.

[Seikun21]

Okay, here was my problem with this issue: I wanted to punch Billy in the face every time he referred to the Scarlet Witch as his "real mom."

Hmm I haven't read the issue yet so I didn't know he did that. How often did he call her his "real mom"? That is pretty cold.

Someone else commented on this somewhere else and for the most part I agree with it,

"I don't believe that Billy thinks of Wanda as his real mother at least anymore than any adoptive child would believe their biological parents are their "real" family. But they do have a tie, and it's normal for kids to be curious about where they came from, what their biological parents are like. He's not disowning his parents by running out to find her."

Of course that person probably isn't an adopted child like you, so it's an outsider's perspective.

[Michael P]

Someone else commented on this somewhere else and for the most part I agree with it

I agree that there should be some curiosity. When my birth mother contacted me for the first time a few months ago, I was definitely eager to find out the circumstances surrounding my birth. But man, I would never have treated my folks the way Billy treats the Kaplans here.

[Seikun21]

I agree that there should be some curiosity. When my birth mother contacted me for the first time a few months ago, I was definitely eager to find out the circumstances surrounding my birth. But man, I would never have treated my folks the way Billy treats the Kaplans here.

Maybe he just didn't want them to worry. I mean this is a woman who completely reshaped the world when years after she lost Billy and Tommy the first time; she annihilated nearly an entire race when her father got her angry; she destroyed the Avengers, her oldest friends and killed her ex-husband.

If Billy told the Kaplans that he was looking for this mentally unstable and insanely powerful woman, then they would have been sick with worry.

And considering how crazy Wanda has been lately she probably wouldn't react well to the news of Billy and Tommy being raised by other sets of parents, loving and living with them. Finding that out might drive her over the edge again.

[DeadXMan]

Speed is a racist little bastered :eek:

Must get that from his mother's side.

[Saviors_Tragedy]

The art this issue was pretty clean and crisp. This issue just has Speed and Wiccan going around different parts of the world looking for Wanda. I think it was cool that the writer chose to use Master Pandemonium in this role since his supposed original connection to Wanda's twins that he attached to his body. My only problem with his use here was he was too docile and would have actually preferred seeing a battle between them than just talking. It revealed that the twins didn't have anything to do with MP like he thought, but still may have been concocted by Mephisto. I do kind of find it odd that they know who Mephisto is though. Don't know why Wiccan would have that info. Also in this issue Speed was much more likable than usual. A decent talking issue which would have been done better with some type of battling confrontation between the two and Master P.Vision told Wiccan and Speed all about Mephisto's involvement with their souls so of course he would know about it. It's what little information he has about his past.
Issue 11

[sschroeder]

So "real" Mom should be out.

But what is the Scarlet Witch to the boys anyway? "Mystical" Mom. "Biological" Mom. "Probability Warped" Mom. Is there another decent option for everyday conversation?

[Saviors_Tragedy]

Michael P, thanks for offering a real-world opinion on that "real mother" issue. It got my goat also, but I'm not adopted, so I didn't know if my feelings were justified.

I thought the issue was blah. It didn't have any peaks or valleys, it just kind of sat there. The art was good, though.

One thing that really bugged me - why couldn't Wiccan just say, "iwanttobewiththescarletwitchiwanttobewiththescarle twitchiwanttobewiththescarletwitch..."?

Kind of a big plot hole, I thought.

she could be using a masking spell that makes her undetectable.

[garin]

I wonder how else he could concisely refer to Wanda. There wasn't much biology involved, was there?

[Saviors_Tragedy]

My thoughts and quirks about the Wiccan and Speed issue:

Art: The art was decent enough. Simplistic but still nicely done. I do have an issue with how Teddy was drawn. I think this style of drawing was a reason why the fight scene lacked a little. Some more PAHZZAZZ!!! could of been incorporated with fine details. If he's going to be in skrull form, then the artist should have at least put some detailed in the fact that he is plated instead of just having him as a large green.. well hulk. No, stripes on the shoulders do not count as plates. As for him being in green whenever he was involved in a scene, the only answer I can come up with is that he can only be that way when he is in a private area or fighting. Maybe a comfort thing to know he can be in green and not have to look human ALL the time. XD or the idea that he can go "Yeah I'm a big green alien who looks like a hulk rip off but this really cute kid still loves me." *shrugs - let me fangirl*
Another thing I've noticed was the latest addition to Wiccan's costume (the gold ripple designed stripe that runs down his thigh) was NEVER drawn on his costume throughout the ENTIRE COMIC!

Story: It was your basic origins kind of story. I think the person who said it best was Michael P when it came to the boy's obsession about their mother though I known some friends who are obsessed about finding their biological parents - not everyone takes these things the same way. All in all, that's what I liked about the twins. Billy is obviously obsessed about it and Tommy just seems to be there for the ride and to show off how fast he really is. Yes - I would agree he appears to be the younger of the two but that could also be his speed. Speedsters are notorious for being impatient which make them juvenile compared to others. I was a little disappointed about how civil everyone was at the end when the twins and Master P. were discussing how to handle history and whether or not to bother yourself over it but the message was clear.

Overall, the issue was fine. I'd give it 8/10 which is disappointing seeing I had very high hopes for my favourite characters' issue. I'd just like to add the interesting little note:

Billy SURE WAS HAPPY at the end *noted close up*
and why did they decide to return home on a BUS?

[Enyo]

Okay, here was my problem with this issue: I wanted to punch Billy in the face every time he referred to the Scarlet Witch as his "real mom."

So, Billy and Tommy are, in their weird little way, basically kids who've were fostered at birth (they had no memory or idea that other people might have been their parents until recently). This puts the Kaplans and the Shepherds in the position of more or less adoptive parents. And that's where Billy's behavior starts pissing me off.

I, myself, am an adoptee, and I've noticed a tendency in comics for kids who find out they're adopted to suddenly seem as if they've jettisoned all feeling for the parents who actually raised them. It bugs the hell out of me, because I don't know a single adopted person who acts that way in real life. Those certainly aren't the feelings I had for my adoptive parents when I found out. After all, my adoptive parents are the ones who read me stories to put me to sleep. My adoptive parents are the ones who gave me video games and red Jell-O when I had my wisdom teeth out. My adoptive parents are the ones who were there for birthdays, graduations, my confirmation, prom night, and all the silly, human little moments in between. My adoptive parents, in short, *are* my real parents. And I'd never refer to them as anything but, or use that term to apply to anyone else. (Not surprisingly, almost the only book to ever get this right is Superman, the one that started the trend. Jor-El and Lara may be his heritage, but Ma and Pa Kent are, well, his Ma and Pa.)

Tommy, I can halfway understand attaching himself to the Scarlet Witch this way. Given where he ended up, it's clear the Shepherds weren't the best of parents. (Which raises the question, where the heck is he living these days? He can't have gone back to juvie, the YA are clearly not hanging out with the Mighty Avengers, and he doesn't seem to have anyplace else to call home. Is he living in the streets?) But the Kaplans, that's another story. We've seen time and again that they care about Billy, want what's best for him, and love him as if he was their own. Their history together may be a hex-induced retcon, but it's still real to them. And there's no reason why it oughtn't be equally real to Billy. For him to act so cavalierly towards them, and especially for him to lie to them like he did, and for it to be presented as natural and relateable behavior, well, like I said, it bugs the hell out of me.

I also wasn't wild about the art.

I haven't read this issue yet but I agree with you. My adoptive parent ARE my real parent. They fed me, clothed me, educated me, loved and comforted me.

[Flâneur]

I had a problem with the 'mom' thing too. I just don't suddenly see them referring to Wanda as mom over and over, which they did, I can see them conceding she's their mother, sort of, if asked but not emphasising their familial relationship non-stop. It's not only a little out of character but it's so blunt, there was a 'mom' or three on every page or so.

I also don't get why Hulkling is holding hands while in his faux-hulk form, it's obviously not his default since he's lived life believing he was human from infancy and passing as one too which is completely logical considering his paternal heritage. Maybe Wiccan has a Hulk fetish?

I must admit that I loved the art, gorgeous.

[prodigy]

"Hell, right? This is hell?"

lmao, that line from Speed made my day. Nice.

[Sanctus]

"Hell, right? This is hell?"

lmao, that line from Speed made my day. Nice.

At that moment he reminded me of John Tucker, an arrogant guy who you can't help but love because in his heart, he is really kind and just being true to himself.

I also like that when William and Master Pandemonium came for him, he was just sitting around sucking it up.

[Arti]

Meh, all the dialogue revolving around Billy and Teddy's relationship seemed so forced and cheesy. Heinberg's writing was much more subtle and well done, IMO.

[Toboe]

I throughly loved this issue. I almost feel kinda bad with all the negativity around here.

Speed was hilarious throught the whole issue, his reaction to being in hell was priceless. And his relationship with Billy was lots of fun. Having both of them visiting the places important to the Scarlet Witch was nice to see, and the issue hints again that she's buried her powers deep within and wants to start a new life (that's likely...).

I'm glad so much focus was given to Wiccan and Hulkling's relationship, the scene at the end was touching. However, it did bother me that Teddy was in his green monster form all the time when just hanging out with Billy, it made no sense at all unless Billy has a Hulk fetish or something.

The art was lovely, and really fits the magical tone of the issue. I'm really glad that Wiccan's costume fugly redesign didn't appear in the interior art.

Also, now I really wonder where Hulkling and Speed are living.

[Pyro]

Another thing I've noticed was the latest addition to Wiccan's costume (the gold ripple designed stripe that runs down his thigh) was NEVER drawn on his costume throughout the ENTIRE COMIC!I was actually glad about that; I preferred the way his costume looked in the comic over the way it looked on the cover.

[Bingo!]

Okay, here was my problem with this issue: I wanted to punch Billy in the face every time he referred to the Scarlet Witch as his "real mom."

So, Billy and Tommy are, in their weird little way, basically kids who've were fostered at birth (they had no memory or idea that other people might have been their parents until recently). This puts the Kaplans and the Shepherds in the position of more or less adoptive parents. And that's where Billy's behavior starts pissing me off.

I, myself, am an adoptee, and I've noticed a tendency in comics for kids who find out they're adopted to suddenly seem as if they've jettisoned all feeling for the parents who actually raised them. It bugs the hell out of me, because I don't know a single adopted person who acts that way in real life. Those certainly aren't the feelings I had for my adoptive parents when I found out. After all, my adoptive parents are the ones who read me stories to put me to sleep. My adoptive parents are the ones who gave me video games and red Jell-O when I had my wisdom teeth out. My adoptive parents are the ones who were there for birthdays, graduations, my confirmation, prom night, and all the silly, human little moments in between. My adoptive parents, in short, *are* my real parents. And I'd never refer to them as anything but, or use that term to apply to anyone else. (Not surprisingly, almost the only book to ever get this right is Superman, the one that started the trend. Jor-El and Lara may be his heritage, but Ma and Pa Kent are, well, his Ma and Pa.)

Tommy, I can halfway understand attaching himself to the Scarlet Witch this way. Given where he ended up, it's clear the Shepherds weren't the best of parents. (Which raises the question, where the heck is he living these days? He can't have gone back to juvie, the YA are clearly not hanging out with the Mighty Avengers, and he doesn't seem to have anyplace else to call home. Is he living in the streets?) But the Kaplans, that's another story. We've seen time and again that they care about Billy, want what's best for him, and love him as if he was their own. Their history together may be a hex-induced retcon, but it's still real to them. And there's no reason why it oughtn't be equally real to Billy. For him to act so cavalierly towards them, and especially for him to lie to them like he did, and for it to be presented as natural and relateable behavior, well, like I said, it bugs the hell out of me.

I also wasn't wild about the art.

Perhaps this is done intentionally.

Skrulls are everywhere

If not, then shame on Marvel for poor character development.

[Diablito]

Speed was my favourite part of the issue, hands-down. And I never knew he was so fast??

[StoneGold]

Heh, Speed is such a relatively benign douchebag, it's awesome.

[whateverich]

Dear Marvel editors:

The Scarlet Witch and the Vision didn't lived in Cresskill, NJ. They lived in Leonia, NJ. Cresskill is where Janet Van Dyne (Wasp) was born.

r...

[Saviors_Tragedy]

I was actually glad about that; I preferred the way his costume looked in the comic over the way it looked on the cover.I only point it out for the reason that if he was seen wearing it in the previous issue and it is advertised on the cover, then so should it be.

[spidarwin]

Dear Marvel editors:

The Scarlet Witch and the Vision didn't lived in Cresskill, NJ. They lived in Leonia, NJ. Cresskill is where Janet Van Dyne (Wasp) was born.

r...

Or maybe they all lived in Englewood, NJ?

You do realize, don't you, that's it's all the same suburban NYC area,
with practically no discernable boundary, don't you?

You could casually walk (though I wouldn't) from Cresskill to Leonia
in a couple of hours, and not realize it was a different city.

[whateverich]

I was just pointing out that the editors, writer; whatever, didn’t do their job and YES it is kinda important when telling a story to get the location correct.

r...

[Tobias Drake]

I was just pointing out that the editors, writer; whatever, didn’t do their job and YES it is kinda important when telling a story to get the location correct.

r...

Or maybe the boys didn't know exactly which city it was and just ported to the general area to start looking around.

[Push You Down]

The boyfriend scenes, while well intentioned, could have been better.
P Town? San Fran? *laughs*


I think to a lot of young homosexual boys (which Billy and Teddy are) San Francisco is still this sort of mythical wonderland. If like Northstar had talked about how he watned to go to San Fran I would have rolled my eyes, but I think with these two teenagers it made sense.


I would have really preferred this to be a two parter - This one focusing on Wiccan and another focusing on Speed. Where after deciding to leave Scarlet Witch alone, they go to search for Quicksilver. I think a meeting between Tommy and Pietro would be interesting.

Teddy and Tommy seem to both be homeless right now. They should get a palce together. That would be hilarious.

[Animalia]

Alright, I finally got the issue and I have to say I am not pleased. I was looking forward to Wiccan and Speed finding their mother and helping her remember and heal her mind. But know. It ends with them saying she dosen't want to be found.....

[Seikun21]

Alright, I finally got the issue and I have to say I am not pleased. I was looking forward to Wiccan and Speed finding their mother and helping her remember and heal her mind. But know. It ends with them saying she dosen't want to be found.....

You didn't actually expect something as huge as finding Wanda, helping her, and finally finding out for sure what their origin of their powers is; to all happen in this one shot did you? I mean that's a pretty huge development for the twins and Wanda. One issue might not have been enough.

And assuming that Heinberg does eventually come back for "Season 2" then that's one of the plot points he definitely wants to use and see through. Meeting her is probably reserved for him to write. This is just what the solicit promised, Billy and Tommy looking. Them giving up is just for now.

[Sanctus]

You didn't actually expect something as huge as finding Wanda, helping her, and finally finding out for sure what their origin of their powers is; to all happen in this one shot did you? I mean that's a pretty huge development for the twins and Wanda. One issue might not have been enough.

And assuming that Heinberg does eventually come back for "Season 2" then that's one of the plot points he definitely wants to use and see through. Meeting her is probably reserved for him to write. This is just what the solicit promised, Billy and Tommy looking. Them giving up is just for now.


I am glad that the kids are searching for their roots so that once season two starts, we can move past the maudlin crap. I also think that out of Tommy, Teddy and Billy, Tommy has the most personality, which is sad because I really wanted to like either Teddy or Billy, but neither has much oomph to their character as currently written. Patriot is brash, Hawkeye's is an annoying overachiever, Tommy is arrogant and irreverent, vision is searching for himself,a and in the same way, Cassie is searching for herself as well. Billy and Teddy are just nice. Great to have as roommates or co-workers, but not really fun for a comic. I hope they jazz up their personalities some, or they will become the gay guys in the YA with no other discernable traits. So basically, that is a long winded way of saying Tommy stole the show in the book. And he should be bi, hitting on Hawkeye's and Patriot, just to throw more confusion into the ranks.

[gunnerfan69]

Or maybe they all lived in Englewood, NJ?

You do realize, don't you, that's it's all the same suburban NYC area,
with practically no discernable boundary, don't you?

You could casually walk (though I wouldn't) from Cresskill to Leonia
in a couple of hours, and not realize it was a different city.

Have you been there? There is a lot of difference between different neighborhoods in large cities. Your statement is like saying it is a short swim over to Manhattan. Distance is means nothing and the individual neighborhoods/areas mean more than you make them to be.

================================================== ===

On topic. I don't read everything that comes out. But I do seem to remember that the Scarlet Witch's kids were 'fake' -- as in House of M. So are they or aren't they? Are Wiccan and Speed real? And if a Skrull Scarlet Witch made them are they fake Skrulls? :o

[Animalia]

You didn't actually expect something as huge as finding Wanda, helping her, and finally finding out for sure what their origin of their powers is; to all happen in this one shot did you? I mean that's a pretty huge development for the twins and Wanda. One issue might not have been enough.

And assuming that Heinberg does eventually come back for "Season 2" then that's one of the plot points he definitely wants to use and see through. Meeting her is probably reserved for him to write. This is just what the solicit promised, Billy and Tommy looking. Them giving up is just for now.

Yea thats true. I was being too harsh, the issue wasn't all that bad. I just get excited at every Wanda apperance I see and expect to much. I guess with the current writers are Marvel right now *cough* I won't be seeing my favorite Avenger for a while

[Seikun21]

Yea thats true. I was being too harsh, the issue wasn't all that bad. I just get excited at every Wanda apperance I see and expect to much. I guess with the current writers are Marvel right now *cough* I won't be seeing my favorite Avenger for a while

I really liked the issue. But I'm easy to please when it comes to Young Avengers stuff. Plus Billy was fighting really well against Pandemonium (though literally pausing in the middle of the fight because he asked him to wasn't exactly the brightest thing) him summoning the staff was pretty cool.

There's the Wanda in Secret Invasion, she's totally a skrull but she's there, she shows up in X-men: First Class sometimes, maybe even a few appearances in a couple issues of Avengers Fairy Tales. She's dead in Ultimates but that version doesn't count. So she does show up, but not in current 616.

Hopefully they bring her back and redeem her soon. The original Vision too. I love the new one, but I miss the old one. I almost wish that Vision 2.0 would change his name so that the other one can come back.

[Flâneur]

On another note with this 'mom' business and its repetition ... would they then be calling Vision 'daddy' all the time? =/

[mutantgene]

I liked this issue, and i loved Billy here aswell! normally im a teddy guy but here Billy or "william" lol won me over :)

although it has to be said that like, some of you picked up on, its not that nice for Billy to be going on about his "real" mother all the time when he already has a real mum...

still all in all a good ish, enjoyed it much more than the Patriot and hulkling issues. still these are nothing that special, they need a regular book damn it! although im exited about their envolvment with the SI.

[Raffi]

would they then be calling Vision 'daddy' all the time? =/

AFAIK, Vision doesn't seem to have had anything to do with their conception, so if they insist on calling Wanda their "real mom", I totally want them to start refering to Mephisto as their real dad. Seems fair.

But yeah, the "real mom" thing made me dislike Billy and feel really bad for the Kaplans, who are good people and who did the actual job of raising him.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

AFAIK, Vision doesn't seem to have had anything to do with their conception, so if they insist on calling Wanda their "real mom", I totally want them to start refering to Mephisto as their real dad. Seems fair.

But he DID have to do with their conception. It was Wanda and Vision's love that transformed the lost souls in Mephisto's possession into Thomas and William Maximoff. Mephisto didn't create them, or shape who they were. Go read the Vision and Scarlet Witch mini, the John Byrne issues of Avengers West Coast with Master Pandemonium and Young Avengers 9-12, and you'll see that Vision is their dad, not Mephisto.

[gunnerfan69]

I admit I'm a bit thick. But if Wanda really did have Kids why did they try so hard to convince her otherwise. :)

[Dermie]

On the subject of Billy calling Wanda his "real" mom...which one of his mothers is his "real" mother is a tricky question, given that his current physical form was born to Mrs Kaplan, but his soul (and his original physical form) was born to Wanda...and somehow some of his original form must be influencing his current form too, since Wanda's other son is still his physical twin, despite being born to a different birth mother.

So, I'd say there is a valid basis for him to call Wanda his "real" mother in that she was his "original" mother. However, Mrs Kaplan is also his "real mother", in that she is the is the one who raised him and did all the real mothering in his life. But it all depends on what criteria you look at--I don't think there really is a right or wrong answer here, in terms of who is his "real" mother. But I don't think either Billy, or the writer, were intending to slight Mrs Kaplan and/or the role of adopted mothers in their children's lives. I think it was just a matter of a simple shorthand to explain what Wanda is in relation to Billy and Tommy, and why they want to find her.

[Seikun21]

On the subject of Billy calling Wanda his "real" mom...which one of his mothers is his "real" mother is a tricky question, given that his current physical form was born to Mrs Kaplan, but his soul (and his original physical form) was born to Wanda...and somehow some of his original form must be influencing his current form too, since Wanda's other son is still his physical twin, despite being born to a different birth mother.

So, I'd say there is a valid basis for him to call Wanda his "real" mother in that she was his "original" mother. However, Mrs Kaplan is also his "real mother", in that she is the is the one who raised him and did all the real mothering in his life. But it all depends on what criteria you look at--I don't think there really is a right or wrong answer here, in terms of who is his "real" mother. But I don't think either Billy, or the writer, were intending to slight Mrs Kaplan and/or the role of adopted mothers in their children's lives. I think it was just a matter of a simple shorthand to explain what Wanda is in relation to Billy and Tommy, and why they want to find her.

I'm not sure if Billy was even born to the Kaplans. I mean the time between Mephisto taking William and Thomas' souls the first time back in West Coast Avengers and the two of them showing up in Young Avengers could not have been 15 years Marvel time. Of course Billy and Tommy could be walk-ins. The souls could have just gone into the two kids, given them the same appearance and the powers of Wanda and Pietro.

[Dermie]

I'm not sure if Billy was even born to the Kaplans. I mean the time between Mephisto taking William and Thomas' souls the first time back in West Coast Avengers and the two of them showing up in Young Avengers could not have been 15 years Marvel time. Of course Billy and Tommy could be walk-ins. The souls could have just gone into the two kids, given them the same appearance and the powers of Wanda and Pietro.

Exactly. Billy and Tommy's souls must have inhabited the bodies of children that were already born (which means that Billy's current physical body was born to the Kaplans) and altered them with elements of their original bodies. Or their souls were flung back in time and then born to new bodies.

The next question is how Teddy is a teenager, since he was conceived only a few years ago, Marvel Time. My guess is that he had the same accelerated aging and artificial memory programming that was also done to Mar-Vell's other kids Genis and Phyla, in order to help keep him hidden from enemies of Mar-Vell and/or Anelle who might be searching for him.

[storm_willing_slave]

I liked this issue way better than the Hulking issue but the Patriot still reign supreme! I hated the way Hulking was drawn...look like a big, grayish-green pile of something I step in! But I liked the way the rest was drawn so I dunno!I liked the used of Speed powers and loved getting a hint as how fast he is! Guy was getting there and checking out houses and stuff! Awesome!
However, it did bother me that Teddy was in his green monster form all the time when just hanging out with Billy, it made no sense at all unless Billy has a Hulk fetish or something.
I do have to admit that it bother me as well! Its like superheroes who knows each other identity and yet still walk around in their costumes during their leisure time!

[Seikun21]

Exactly. Billy and Tommy's souls muhttp://forums.comicbookresources.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6643876
Comic Book Resources Forums - Reply to Topicst have inhabited the bodies of children that were already born (which means that Billy's current physical body was born to the Kaplans) and altered them with elements of their original bodies. Or their souls were flung back in time and then born to new bodies.

Or you know magic/reality warping. Maybe Wanda subconsciously created new bodies and lives for them and sent them to the Kaplans/Shepherds rewriting their history.

The next question is how Teddy is a teenager, since he was conceived only a few years ago, Marvel Time. My guess is that he had the same accelerated aging and artificial memory programming that was also done to Mar-Vell's other kids Genis and Phyla, in order to help keep him hidden from enemies of Mar-Vell and/or Anelle who might be searching for him.

I actually think Teddy might be younger then he thinks. Skrulls/Kree might mature way faster than humans. And then his mom (Mrs. Altman) told him he was a certain age when he was really only like a few months old. So while he thinks he's sixteen now he might only be like nine or ten.

[Dermie]

I actually think Teddy might be younger then he thinks. Skrulls/Kree might mature way faster than humans. And then his mom (Mrs. Altman) told him he was a certain age when he was really only like a few months old. So while he thinks he's sixteen now he might only be like nine or ten.

That still doesn't really work. For one thing, I think Hulkling would only be about 7 or 8, chronologically. And even if his alien physiology makes him age faster (which you'd think he'd notice and be suspicious of), that doesn't explain him having memories of a childhood that didn't happen.

Given that we already know the accelerated aging and implanted memories is a real possibility (since it was done with Genis and Phyla) I think it makes the most sense here.

[Seikun21]

That still doesn't really work. For one thing, I think Hulkling would only be about 7 or 8, chronologically. And even if his alien physiology makes him age faster (which you'd think he'd notice and be suspicious of), that doesn't explain him having memories of a childhood that didn't happen.

Given that we already know the accelerated aging and implanted memories is a real possibility (since it was done with Genis and Phyla) I think it makes the most sense here.

The childhood happened but it happened when he was younger than he thought. Not age faster exactly, more like after he was hatched he didn't go through a phase in his life where he was a baby or that stage in his life was shorter than a human baby. Say the Kree-Skrull War was 10 years ago, and that his earliest memories are of him as 4-6 years old, when he was really only like a few months old, and since then he's aged pretty normally for a humanoid.

So he's only chronologically a few years old now, but he's mentally 16.

[Tobias Drake]

Y'know I can think of only three homosexual couples I've seen since I jumped on board with Marvel, and of those, two involve a Skrull. And the one that didn't involve a Skrull, Phyla/Moondragon, ended with death. Are there any other homosexual couples in the MU that are going fine and don't feature a shapeshifting alien as one half of the equation?

[seeso]

I admit I'm a bit thick. But if Wanda really did have Kids why did they try so hard to convince her otherwise. :)

It's kind of a long story, but Agatha Harkness made that judgement call, not the Avengers. Whenever Wanda wasn't focusing on her kids, they were shifting in and out of existence. Agatha wiped their memories from her mind.

Are there any other homosexual couples in the MU that are going fine and don't feature a shapeshifting alien as one half of the equation?

You've got Northstar and Colossus over in the Ultimate universe. I can't think of any others.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Y'know I can think of only three homosexual couples I've seen since I jumped on board with Marvel, and of those, two involve a Skrull. And the one that didn't involve a Skrull, Phyla/Moondragon, ended with death. Are there any other homosexual couples in the MU that are going fine and don't feature a shapeshifting alien as one half of the equation?

Roger Aubrey, the Mighty Destroyer, is an Octogenarian, a WWII vet British hero and a homosexual who is happily involved with Nigel Clowes, a former member of the V-Battalion, which Roger used to be the leader of, a covert secret organization of Nazi hunters with capabilities that, while not rivaling, are somewhat close to SHIELD's. At one point in the short-lived Invaders series the two men were witnesses, audience members at a gay pride parade/event. They worked together for years, but didn't get together until Roger himself retired.

[Bryson the Red]

Are there any other homosexual couples in the MU that are going fine and don't feature a shapeshifting alien as one half of the equation?

How many non-homosexual couples are going fine? Comics don't usually tie down the heroes into that sort of thing. I know there are more heterosexual couples that work, but really, the ratio can't be staggering.

[Seraku]

I liked it, so far this entire series has been pretty good. I hate the art of this issue and especially the Hulkling one.

Question though, when the hell is Allen heinberg getting back in the helm of this series and give us Season Two?

[Tobias Drake]

How many non-homosexual couples are going fine? Comics don't usually tie down the heroes into that sort of thing. I know there are more heterosexual couples that work, but really, the ratio can't be staggering.

A valid point. It was just something I was thinking about.

Anyways....

I'm glad the boys never actually found Scarlet Witch. We've pestered her twice already, through Beast and Hawkeye, but she really seems to not want to be found, if she even knows who she is at all. I like where she is now, and the story of "We found the Scarlet Witch but OH, we don't want to mess with what she's got going on right now, so we'll leave her be" has already been done. Until they're ready for her to move on and do something new, if they ever are, she doesn't really need to make "Hi, I still exist" appearances just to keep in people's minds.

So yeah, I'm glad they never found her. I was scared this was just going to be another "Found Scarlet Witch and then left" storyline, and it was so much better. I went into this with low expectations and I was pleasantly surprised. Definitely gets my Sea Lion of Approval!

[Bryson the Red]

So yeah, I'm glad they never found her. I was scared this was just going to be another "Found Scarlet Witch and then left" storyline, and it was so much better. I went into this with low expectations and I was pleasantly surprised. Definitely gets my Sea Lion of Approval!

Agreed. I was glad they look, and also that they never found her and just decided to leave it be.

[Seikun21]

I liked it, so far this entire series has been pretty good. I hate the art of this issue and especially the Hulkling one.

Question though, when the hell is Allen heinberg getting back in the helm of this series and give us Season Two?

I loved the art, it was uneven in some places but still really good in my opinion.

I'm not sure when Allan Heinberg will make Season 2, I'm not sure if he ever will. But if he does my best guess is that it'll probably after Secret Invasion ends. So that's what? Eight months.

Or if the Young Avengers' role in SI ends with their 3 issue crossover with the Runaways then we might see a new Young Avengers ongoing as early as September. Doubt it though.

[Lombardo!]

I loved the art, it was uneven in some places but still really good in my opinion.

I'm not sure when Allan Heinberg will make Season 2, I'm not sure if he ever will. But if he does my best guess is that it'll probably after Secret Invasion ends. So that's what? Eight months.

Or if the Young Avengers' role in SI ends with their 3 issue crossover with the Runaways then we might see a new Young Avengers ongoing as early as September. Doubt it though.

what i dont get about everyone so adamant that no-one can touch these characters in a new ongoing OTHER than Heinberg, is what's the guarantee after all this time, he'll even still have the magic for them?

i say just go ahead. make a new series. if he ever returns, give him the book for a bit. hell, if they spin it out of SI, they'll get the numbers.

[insidemyhead]

I loved this issue, definitely my favorite of the YA Presents so far. Especially liked Speed's exploration of hell and his interactions with Teddy and Billy. Actually, this was the first time I really liked Speed at all. Unfortunately the Hulkling-Wiccan interaction seemed forced here, almost cliched, like the writer was unnecessarily uneasy writing a gay relationship or something.

I didn't get why they took the bus home from NJ either. Also, it seemed that they must have been away from Billy's home for what, 20 minutes? Couldn't they have just left after dinner instead of getting Teddy involved in tricking Billy's mom? (Good excuse to see more of Hulkling, though.)

[Ontir]

An interesting issue, and for the first time, I've enjoyed someone other than the regular artist drawing the characters. I also like that Marvel hasn't taken the absence of the series' writer to "straighten" things out. It's certainly not Queer as Folk, but everything is as it should be with Wiccan and Hulkling. We also get a better look at Speed and the still-forming relationship between he and his long-lost twin. The wait has been too long, but this will tide me over for a while longer.

[desanth]

Lots of plot holes for an issue, like mentioned above, but I liked it overall. Billy was a douche, lookin for his 'real' mom. But I guess he still has feelings for his parents, otherwise why leave Hulkling to imitate him instead of just ditching his non-real family? Oh for having Hulkling imitate Billy, they didn't know how long they'd be gone, you'd have to figure if they actually found SW they'd hang out with her for a day or so. And for the bus trip home, I guess they might do that since they might feel a bit down/depressed about not finding their mom and deciding to let things be. Lots to think about, no need to rush home(wherever that may be) Kinda makes sense, I guess.

[insidemyhead]

Lots of plot holes for an issue, like mentioned above, but I liked it overall. Billy was a douche, lookin for his 'real' mom. But I guess he still has feelings for his parents, otherwise why leave Hulkling to imitate him instead of just ditching his non-real family? Oh for having Hulkling imitate Billy, they didn't know how long they'd be gone, you'd have to figure if they actually found SW they'd hang out with her for a day or so. And for the bus trip home, I guess they might do that since they might feel a bit down/depressed about not finding their mom and deciding to let things be. Lots to think about, no need to rush home(wherever that may be) Kinda makes sense, I guess.

Oh good points, desanth. I should have thought of those. It sounds like I'm in the minority of not being bothered by Billy's search for his "real" mom, though. It seems like relevant information that Wiccan and Speed would want to have, in their roles as Young Avengers and as people who wonder about where they've come from and how they've come to exist at all, especially given their unique circumstances.

[matthewaos]

Nice issue. This series is good so far!

[Monty_Cristo]

How many non-homosexual couples are going fine?

Doctor Doom and Reed Richards' homosexual relationship has been going on since before i was born, just fine. they haven't yet broken up, at least.

[DeadMuskrat]

Sorry that I'm coming to this discussion a little late, but it bothers me that people could look down upon Wiccan for looking for Scarlet Witch.

Maybe in a real world setting the fact that he would look for his "real Mom" when he has a loving family at home could be seen as Billy acting spoiled, but this is not your typical where-did-I-come-from story. This is a question of "Do I actually exist, and if so what are the orgins of my incredible and dangerous power?" Something Billy should find out if he wants to continue using his power, which for all we know, could unmake reality much in the way Scarlet Witch did. He's being responsible. Not spoiled or arrogant.

The only debate that can be justified here is the writers choice of the words "real Mother". Something that would be nit-picking in my eyes.