Detective Comics #843 (Discussion and Spoilers)

[BrikHed21]

DETECTIVE COMICS #843
Written by Paul Dini; Art by Dustin Nguyen and Derek Fridolfs; Cover by Nguyen

A member of Gotham's underground threatens the livelihood of the DCU's resident magician, Zatanna! That is, until Batman decides to lend Zatanna a hand. Plus, an appearance by Scarface and the origin of the new Ventriloquist!

http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/9/1/9134_180x270.jpg (javascript:myVoid())

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Typically I am not as fond of 'Tec as Batman but this is one of those issues that is really good. I know, I know all of Dini's stuff has been good but this issue seems to hit the right cord with me. I am not sure if it is all the sexual tension or the fact that I can rest easy knowing that Penguin indeed still has game. What did I like?

First, we get a little Batman, but we get a lot more of Bruce Wayne. Batman makes an appearance in the beginning and shakes down the Penguin - who knew having webbed feet could get you hot chics in your place. The rest of the issue is more about Bruce and all of the characters around him. I think many of us have wanted to see a little more Bruce and Dini is always good to deliver that - this issue just seems to have the right mix

Next, I wasn't crazy about the last time Zatanna appeared, she has never done much for me as a character, but I like the tie in and her being back. Who knew she had a thing for Bruce - she throws her "take me now" vibe out there for Bruce and it is a very interesting conversation. I wonder how many drinks they had while sitting at the bar.

Finally, it was just a great story and not rushed to fit into a single issue. There are a lot of things going on at once and they all play perfectly. I am a little concerned as to why Peyton realized who Bruce was so late - but I am hoping that will be explained in the next issue.

Dini delivers big time in this issue and I am looking forward to the next issue. For those that grab the book each month you will not be disappointed, for those that normally don't check it out I woud recommending grabbing a copy for yourself.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

The last story in Detective that Dini wrote featuring Zatanna was aces, so I'm hoping this one is good too.

[lukababic]

Great issue with good character developing and not just plain action packed boring stuff. But I don't remember where did
Bruce and the new Ventriloquist met before?

I also loved the way
Zatanna and Bruce flirt, it wasn't over exaggerated, just the right amount. Less is more, right?

It seems like last few months they've been really trying to improve Batman's/Bruce's sex life:
First there was that kiss with cloacking chick, then Zatanna and now it looks like the new Ventriloquist wants to be seduced?

[Choppa]

I'm getting kind of tired of seeing Zatanna every other issue. I mostly liked this one though.

I don't think we've seen a previous relationship with Bruce and the Ventriloquist IIRC.

[Chad]

I'm getting kind of tired of seeing Zatanna every other issue. I mostly liked this one though.

I don't think we've seen a previous relationship with Bruce and the Ventriloquist IIRC.

Seeing as how any previous relationship would have been with Arnold Wesker I would hope not.

I liked the issue a lot and yet hadn't expected to based on the five page preview that had been posted. Batman's "If you don't shut up I'll knock your head in" to the frightened guard followed by the usual Penguin/Batman exchange in which Cobblepot proves his worthlessness as an enemy to Batman by getting on his hands and knees and snitching to him for the millionith time had me not looking forward to this issue.

However, Dini doesn't stike me as overusing Zatanna simply because he's using her so well. He's written yet another great Scarface appearance, successfully keeping him a great villain while having to replace the Original Ventriloquist with someone who has to be intriguing in her own right. He's tying this story in with his earlier issues while setting up future developments between the new Ventriloquist and Bruce Wayne. He's also actually using Bruce Wayne - something many writers for some reason shy away from.

I felt the last cliffhanger Dini did though was a let down - the Joker/Zatanna issue where Joker challenges the magician to use skill and not magic to escape and all she does is wait for Batman to rescue her. Batman, meanwhile, escapes his trap simply by being really, really strong. Putting Bruce Wayne into a deathtrap however might be more interesting.

[BrikHed21]

I'm getting kind of tired of seeing Zatanna every other issue. I mostly liked this one though.

I don't know if she is overused - but I am not a fan of her in general. I thought she worked really well in this issue and I liked her throwing game out there for Bruce moments. I think we need a little of that type of character development with Bruce rather than just the normal: (1) I am stronger, (2) I am smarter, and (3) I always win.

[Binker]

by Nathaniel Ruff (aka Binker on the forums)

DETECTIVE COMICS #843

Written by Paul Dini
Art by Dustin Nguyen and Derek Fridolfs
Cover by Nguyen
Edited by Mike Marts

PLOT:
A member of Gotham's underground threatens the livelihood of the DCU's resident magician, Zatanna! That is, until Batman decides to lend Zatanna a hand. Plus, an appearance by Scarface and the origin of the new Ventriloquist!

REVIEW:
So a quick recap: Detective 840 provided an epilogue to the whole "Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul" saga that I felt it kinda lacked. One of the things I didn't expect was Batman tranquilizing Ra's to the point where he is now a lunatic at Arkham now. What does this do to Batman/Ra's now? Who knows. But something will happen down the line, I guarantee it. As for #841, while the plot was interesting, I didn't care for it in the end. That's all I can say on those two missed issues. I didn't want to get these issues because of the art being drawn by the same guy who did the arc I didn't like in Superman/Batman. But I think he improved his artwork here. Either that or I got use to it. Oh, and I skipped #842 because...can I just say because I didn't care for the story? So with that out of the way, here is #843.

This issue brings back our new Ventriloquist and Scarface, and plus Misty-er....I mean Zatanna is back too. I guess since she's his favorite character and he married a real life version of her, we should've expected Zatanna appearances anytime during his run. This is her fifth appearance of her in this comic, y'know? But despite the Ventriloquist on the cover, even though there is an important moment with her later, I can't see this whole issue being mostly about her (and him). Instead, this issue does, and I believe, focuses more on Zatanna and Bruce, not so much Zatanna and Batman. I guess we've learned that there is no telling when an issue with a character along with another issue with the same character takes place because there is a bit of romance discussion between the two here, and Jezebel from Grant Morrison's current run on the Batman title isn't mentioned anywhere here. The talk these two have toward one another isn't something with more ties to Identity Crisis, but more along the way of referencing past issues with issues #833-834. Zatanna brings up the fact that Bruce spent the night on her side before he tracked down the Joker in that two-parter, which led her to believe he cared for her more than a friend. But Bruce's response is that anyone would do that, even friends. He does care for her, as we all know, but does he love her deep down? Well that's up to us, and Dini, to decide.

Overall, this was another issue of Paul Dini's Detective Comics that I liked. I want to see what he has planned for the concluding issue, but we all know it will be well-written. Oh wait! I forgot to mention the important part of the new Ventriloquist. Well, as we learn in this issue, her name is Peyton Riley, and even she doesn't like what she has become. How or what Bruce will do with her, maybe even help her, is up in the air. In any event, it will be answered with the next issue. By the way, it looks like Nguyen did improve his artwork. Unlike last time, where his women weren't quite as good, I couldn't stop looking at how cute and beautiful Zatanna looked. Looks like I was wrong thinking it would be bad with him as the artist on this book, which was why I didn't get those #840-841 the first time.

RATING: Yay

Next Issue: Batman/Zatanna vs. Scarface and Ventriloquist!

[Jeff O.]

Instead, this issue does, and I believe, focuses more on Zatanna and Bruce, not so much Zatanna and Batman. I guess we've learned that there is no telling when an issue with a character along with another issue with the same character takes place because there is a bit of romance discussion between the two here, and Jezebel from Grant Morrison's current run on the Batman title isn't mentioned anywhere here.

By any chance is Zatanna shown in this issue with a brown-and-white rabbit for her magic act, or does she mention a magic rabbit at all? Thank you.

Just trying to keep an eye out for

WARNING:

OLD

COUNTDOWN

SPOILER

from

DECEMBER



Captain Carrot, who has been in Zatanna's charge since his transformation into a real rabbit at the end of CAPTAIN CARROT AND THE FINAL ARK. Unless she gave him away. :eek:






END

OF

OLD

COUNTDOWN

SPOILER

from

DECEMBER

[Binker]

No, no rabbit.

[Jeff O.]

No, no rabbit.

Thanks again.

[Jack Zodiac]

To be fair, Binker, Jezebel Jet isn't even that important of a character in Morrison's run, and I doubt she's going to last as a romantic interest past his story arc considering how undeveloped she is. Right now, she's more like the insertable romantic interest in Bruce Wayne's life that's going to affect him being Batman somehow, somewhere, until Morrison's mind-!@#$ arc is over and she disappears, or joins the ranks of Vicky Vale and Silver St. Cloud.

As for this issue? Ten shades of awesome. I love Zatanna, and Dini loves Zatanna, and this issue was perfect parts "team-up" and "solo story" for both her and Batman. I'm glad Dini's using her pretty often because I think she's a good foil for Batman, and Bruce Wayne.

[Crimson]

I love Dini's Batman... he's well rounded. I know alot of people like the hard ass Batman with Wayne being a front but after a while that gets a little thin. I like seeing him let his guard down (even though he's still trying to solve a crime) around friends. You've got to think that he has to relax around Tim, Dick and Alfred a little but we see it so little.

I wouldn't mind Zatanna and Bats being together for a bit but no one else seems to be interested in writing this.

I would love to see Dini try and write a Zatanna mini or something. He's got a great handle on her/

[DonC]

I wouldn't mind Zatanna and Bats being together for a bit but no one else seems to be interested in writing this.

Zatanna's a second generation hero. I always equate her age to being closer to Dick, Donna Troy and the early- to mid-20s characters. Seeing her with Batman would be like seeing a hero dating a former teen sidekick.

I would love to see Dini try and write a Zatanna mini or something. He's got a great handle on her/

There was talk of an all-fishnets mini with Dini writing Zatanna and Black Canary, but I don't know if that was a joke or for real.

[Crimson]

Zatanna's a second generation hero. I always equate her age to being closer to Dick, Donna Troy and the early- to mid-20s characters. Seeing her with Batman would be like seeing a hero dating a former teen sidekick.


I see what you mean... I can't keep up with DC's ages. Its so confusing, seeing as Dini keeps referencing them being childhood friends.

[Chad]

I love Dini's Batman... he's well rounded. I know alot of people like the hard ass Batman with Wayne being a front but after a while that gets a little thin. I like seeing him let his guard down (even though he's still trying to solve a crime) around friends. You've got to think that he has to relax around Tim, Dick and Alfred a little but we see it so little./


There was an issue of Shadow of the Bat in which Harvey Bullock has to solve a crime at Wayne Manor. Bruce Wayne of course knew Bullock as Batman but to bug Alfred played around with him - forgetting his name, feigning ignorance in ways that went far beyond simply trying to play up his foppish reputation, that sort of thing. Even though he acted in a way that Batman never would, and there would have been no reason to try and deceive Alfred who already knows his secrets, this was Batman indulging in his sense of humour. The case was about a 130 year old body found in the cellar and it was clear that Batman found it amusing to humour Bullock as he taught him forensics, detective work, observation/deduction, etc. And it was never part of an act, Batman just has a sense of humour that he could only display as Bruce Wayne.

[carabas]

Zatanna's a second generation hero. I always equate her age to being closer to Dick, Donna Troy and the early- to mid-20s characters. Seeing her with Batman would be like seeing a hero dating a former teen sidekick.Zatanna is a second generation hero, but Giovanni Zatarra and current timeline Batman weren't contemporaries (he was in Action Comics #1), and was likely already retired when Bats moved onstage.
Batman and Zatanna were together on the Justice League while Dick was still a Robin.

[DonC]

Zatanna is a second generation hero, but Giovanni Zatarra and current timeline Batman weren't contemporaries (he was in Action Comics #1), and was likely already retired when Bats moved onstage.
Batman and Zatanna were together on the Justice League while Dick was still a Robin.


I haven't read the original JLA stories with her, but in the newer stuff, like Identity Crisis, she's always been portrayed as a novice hero, younger than the rest.

If Batman is 34, I'd put Zatanna at 29 and Dick Grayson at 25. But that's just my personal timeline.

[Captain Jim]

Interestingly, IIRC, Morrison says Batman is in his mid-forties and that ALL of the Batman history (1939 to present) happened to this single character, albeit in a more compressed time line.

[Brack360]

I would love to see Dini try and write a Zatanna mini or something. He's got a great handle on her/

A few years back, Dini wrote a one-shot called Zatanna: Everyday Magic. You might still be able to find a copy.

[Crimson]

A few years back, Dini wrote a one-shot called Zatanna: Everyday Magic. You might still be able to find a copy.

Thanks, thats on my want list :biggrin:

[carabas]

I haven't read the original JLA stories with her, but in the newer stuff, like Identity Crisis, she's always been portrayed as a novice hero, younger than the rest.

If Batman is 34, I'd put Zatanna at 29 and Dick Grayson at 25. But that's just my personal timeline.That sounds pretty accurate.
A mid-thirties man dating a late-twenties woman isn't exactly robbing the cradle though.

[Choppa]

Seeing as how any previous relationship would have been with Arnold Wesker I would hope not.


Not sure what you mean here.

[HaroldAllnut]

I liked Zatanna's line in response to Bruce saying he never knew he had the option of dating her. What was it? "Well, that option's here, and it's wearing a top hat," or something. That's Dini at his best.

Interestingly, IIRC, Morrison says Batman is in his mid-forties and that ALL of the Batman history (1939 to present) happened to this single character, albeit in a more compressed time line.

Considering a good chunk of it occurred nowhere but inside his head over a period of about 10 days, according to Morrison, that actually makes a good deal of sense.

[filthysize]

That Dini. If only we can all fall in love with a comic book character and marry her in real life.

*wrings fist*

I love my wife, but she's no Harley Quinn.

[Jack Zodiac]

Maybe if ya' ask her real nice...

[filthysize]

Maybe if ya' ask her real nice...

She'll leave me for a serial killer?