The Evolution Of The Character Of Batman Over Time

[Robo Ape]

I have read on this very site that early on in the character's life that Batman regularly carried a gun to fight criminals with, which I was quite surprised to read. But what other changes have happened to the character over time?

I guess the basics that his parents were killed in a mugging gone wrong & that this event caused him to start a war on crime later on in life has pretty much stayed the same as has who the character is, in that the character name & background of Bruce Wayne have always more or less stayed the same. Though who committed the mugging of his parents does seem to have changed over time.

Also things like how he decided to use a Bat as his image has changed over time & that he didn't always fall into a cave in which he saw bats which he then decided to use as his image to scare criminals with.

By the way is there a good book on the evolution of the character over time?

[OverMaster]

I guess the basics that his parents were killed in a mugging gone wrong & that this event caused him to start a war on crime later on in life has pretty much stayed the same as has who the character is, in that the character name & background of Bruce Wayne have always more or less stayed the same. Though who committed the mugging of his parents does seem to have changed over time.

Even the fact of both his parents being killed has changed. In the early Silver Age, when the censorship made violence against women nearly unportrayable in comics, it was retconned so only Thomas Wayne was murdered, while his wife suffered a heart attack and died seeing her husband to die. It wasn't retconned back to both of them being shot until the Bronze Age.

[Augusto]

I think one of the changes is his relation with other superheroes. Long time ago they were real friends, but in the last years, Batman doesn't trust any of them.

[Robo Ape]

Even the fact of both his parents being killed has changed. In the early Silver Age, when the censorship made violence against women nearly unportrayable in comics, it was retconned so only Thomas Wayne was murdered, while his wife suffered a heart attack and died seeing her husband to die. It wasn't retconned back to both of them being shot until the Bronze Age.

Thanks for that fact that's something I never knew.

It's true though that different people have been portrayed as killing his parents including the Joker at one point.

[David Walton]

I think one of the changes is his relation with other superheroes. Long time ago they were real friends, but in the last years, Batman doesn't trust any of them.

Which is of course a reflection of Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, also responsible for the death of Jason Todd in the real DCU and the ancestor of the Elseworlds line.

I'm no expert on Batman, but I would say that 1986 was one of the biggest shifts in not only his evolution, but it also shaped the DCU as well.

[filthysize]

The no-kill rule, obviously. Back then he was always "Oh, well. You deserve it." whenever he "accidentally" kills criminals during a fight.

[Choppa]

-The yellow oval on his chest was added I believe because DC couldn't trademark a black bat symbol. Miller's explanation for it was that it gave enemies a clear target to aim at so they wouldn't shoot other sensitive areas.

-Pearls falling from his mother's neck were added at some point. Also I believe he originally didn't see "The Mask of Zorro" but was added later.

-The choice of using bats I believe had a bunch of new reasons. In "Begins" for instance, he uses bats because they scared him as a child and his fear got his parents killed.

-Another retelling from "Broken City" had Bruce holding a grude against his father for not taking him out. But then at the last minute they change their minds and go, but Bruce tries to save face and not say anything. Then when they are killed, his last words were "I hate you" or something from the previous day and that haunts him.

[Chad]

While not a big fan of Frank Miller's work, I have to admit that some of what he did with Batman was nothing short of inspired.

As Choppa mentioned, it took almost 50 years for it to be established, but it wasn't until Dark Knight came along that we learned that the last film the Waynes saw was The Mark of Zorro. It seems like the obvious choice now for what else could it have been, but until 1986 it was left nameless as if no one could settle on what the perfect film would have been.

But the best thing he did in my estimation is what he did with Alfred. By having Alfred become the Wayne's butler while Bruce's parents were still alive, Miller gave Alfred his wit. This is almost impossible to believe, but before 1986, Alfred never made sarcastic or witty comments about Batman's obsessions or lifestyle the way he does now. Because Alfred didn't originally enter the picture until Wayne had already been Batman for a few years, he was never really a member of the Wayne family the way he pretty much is today. Without knowing the Waynes, knowing Bruce before and after their deaths, seeing the changes in him as he determined how best to avenge his parents deaths, wasn't there when the Bat-Cave was discovered, costume was designed, etc, etc, he was more of a beloved employee who could only guess at what was going through his employer's head. So to have a butler come into the home of a 25/30 year old Bruce Wayne and start making "Why sir, you're the picture of perfect mental health (rolls eyes)" comments would have been completely inappropriate. However, to have Alfred witness first hand Bruce Wayne's evolution since the age of six or so gave him a seeming right to openly question Batman's state of mind.

[Choppa]

^That reminds me of that Zero Hour issue in SOTB where an older Alfred is transported to the present. Is that what he used to be like or was that just more a product of the campy era?

[filthysize]

-The choice of using bats I believe had a bunch of new reasons. In "Begins" for instance, he uses bats because they scared him as a child and his fear got his parents killed.

They took that from Denny O'Neill's Secret Origins issue though.

-Another retelling from "Broken City" had Bruce holding a grude against his father for not taking him out. But then at the last minute they change their minds and go, but Bruce tries to save face and not say anything. Then when they are killed, his last words were "I hate you" or something from the previous day and that haunts him.

It's interesting how this is probably the most often changed aspect of Batman's myth. Every writer likes to portray Thomas and Martha's last day differently depending on what suits their story.

Jeph Loeb had it that Martha was reading Alice in Wonderland to Bruce when they left for the theater, so to this day he gets the creeps when fighting Mad Hatter. If I remember correctly Bruce wanted to see movies but his parents insisted that he reads books instead, and Zorro was supposed to be the one exception to reward him. So there's that guilt again.

Grant Morrison put Bruce in a boarding school, and the reason they went to see the movie was to celebrate Bruce's first night back home.

Anyone know any other memorable retellings?

[OverMaster]

^That reminds me of that Zero Hour issue in SOTB where an older Alfred is transported to the present. Is that what he used to be like or was that just more a product of the campy era?

That was just how Alfred was when he first was introduced. Originally, he was fat and clumsy, but in a story starring the same two villains from that Shadow issue (the cheesy gangster and the drugging doctor), Alfred returned from a health farm (or something like that), all slimmed down as we know him today to save the day.

[xnef1025]

That was just how Alfred was when he first was introduced. Originally, he was fat and clumsy, but in a story starring the same two villains from that Shadow issue (the cheesy gangster and the drugging doctor), Alfred returned from a health farm (or something like that), all slimmed down as we know him today to save the day.
I remember reading a black and white paperback sized reprint(Untold Tales of the Batman was the title maybe) when I was in elementary school. If I remember correctly it had an origin of Alfred story where former British army field medic Alfred Pennyworth reluctantly grants his father's dying request that he take back up the family profession of serving the last of the Wayne family in Gotham City. Adult Bruce Wayne is pretty surprised to suddenly inherit a butler. At first Alfred has no idea about his new employer's true nightly outings and thinks he's an airheaded playboy like everybody else and resents his new position. One night he's awoken by noises. He finds the open secret passage behind the clock, the Batcave, and a badly wounded Bruce Wayne in a Batman outfit. Alfred fixes Batman up using his medical training and gains a new respect for Bruce Wayne and accepts the position of butler that he resisted.

Some of these details may be off. I haven't seen that book in 20 years, but I think that's how it went. That same book also had a story of the first Bat-man, Thomas Wayne.

[Kara Zor El]

Batman has become more and more like the movie version of James Bond and characters like Our Man Flint over time too. Being the best at everything. There's nothing he can't do and do it at the top level.

Wasn't there a story where his father dressed up as a Bat Man once at a fancy dress and this costume inspired Batman? Something like that.

[Chad]

They took that from Denny O'Neill's Secret Origins issue though.



It's interesting how this is probably the most often changed aspect of Batman's myth. Every writer likes to portray Thomas and Martha's last day differently depending on what suits their story.

Jeph Loeb had it that Martha was reading Alice in Wonderland to Bruce when they left for the theater, so to this day he gets the creeps when fighting Mad Hatter. If I remember correctly Bruce wanted to see movies but his parents insisted that he reads books instead, and Zorro was supposed to be the one exception to reward him. So there's that guilt again.

Grant Morrison put Bruce in a boarding school, and the reason they went to see the movie was to celebrate Bruce's first night back home.

Anyone know any other memorable retellings?

I haven't read Broken City, but it sounds a lot like Jim Starlin's version of Thomas Wayne's last night. A flashback to that day in Batman 430 (or thereabouts) has Thomas Wayne under a lot of stress. Bruce is bugging him to play catch, his dad says something like "Not now I'm busy", Bruce asks again, and his father snaps and hits him. Martha shouts "How could you?!" Thomas is in shock over what he's done and apologizes, and Bruce says that he wishes he were dead. That night he got his wish.

With the possible exception of Alan Grant, Jim Starlin is my favorite Bat-author of the past 25 years, but this issue left a bad taste in my mouth. Like Batman's origin was incomplete until we discovered that his dad abused him.

[Robo Ape]

When did Robin enter the picture, I believe I am right in thinking that he wasn't there from the beginning? From what I can remember the character of Robin didn't turn up until the early 1940's. Also is it correct from what I have read that the look of his character was based on the iconic ideal of Robin Hood's look hence the character's name?

[BoosterBronze]

Some of these details may be off. I haven't seen that book in 20 years, but I think that's how it went. That same book also had a story of the first Bat-man, Thomas Wayne.

Even as a 9 year old, I found his dad as 'the first bat-man' to be pushing the bounds of plausibility.

[Choppa]

I haven't read Broken City, but it sounds a lot like Jim Starlin's version of Thomas Wayne's last night. A flashback to that day in Batman 430 (or thereabouts) has Thomas Wayne under a lot of stress. Bruce is bugging him to play catch, his dad says something like "Not now I'm busy", Bruce asks again, and his father snaps and hits him. Martha shouts "How could you?!" Thomas is in shock over what he's done and apologizes, and Bruce says that he wishes he were dead. That night he got his wish.

With the possible exception of Alan Grant, Jim Starlin is my favorite Bat-author of the past 25 years, but this issue left a bad taste in my mouth. Like Batman's origin was incomplete until we discovered that his dad abused him.

Damn that sounds crazy. In Broken City Bruce is just mad at his Dad becasue he is alwyas busy being a doctor and promised to make it up to him by taking him to see Zorro.

I dind't like the Gothic retelling btw.

[filthysize]

Yeah that's different if Thomas' temper is involved. Azzarello played up the guilt factor by making Bruce a brat and 100% responsible. Dad's busy saving lives and he's a spoiled kid who wants his way. After he says he hates them, Thomas feels guilty enough to drop everything to take him to a movie. Then he dies before Bruce could apologize for being a brat.

[Utility Belt]

Another variation that was made (during the late 70'2 or early 80's I believe) was having Thomas Wayne be the ORIGINAL Batman. It happened like this: He and Martha Wayne went to a costume ball where the theme was flying creatures or things. Thomas dressed as a bat in a costume that was like the version seen in the very first Batman Comics, with stiff wings and short gloves, while Martha dressed as an Owl. I half recall that some crooks crash the party with the intention of robbing Gotham's socialites but Thomas Wayne springs into action and saves the day.
This version was of course discared altogether in later years, but it was a pretty cool addition to the Batman mythos.

[Captain Jim]

When did Robin enter the picture, I believe I am right in thinking that he wasn't there from the beginning? From what I can remember the character of Robin didn't turn up until the early 1940's.

Batman debuted in Detective Comics #27 (1939); Robin joined him in Detective #38 (1940), roughly a year later.

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/vol/19000/18058/18058-111907-1-detective-comics_400.jpg

Also is it correct from what I have read that the look of his character was based on the iconic ideal of Robin Hood's look hence the character's name?

Correct.

[Chad]

Another variation that was made (during the late 70'2 or early 80's I believe) was having Thomas Wayne be the ORIGINAL Batman. It happened like this: He and Martha Wayne went to a costume ball where the theme was flying creatures or things. Thomas dressed as a bat in a costume that was like the version seen in the very first Batman Comics, with stiff wings and short gloves, while Martha dressed as an Owl. I half recall that some crooks crash the party with the intention of robbing Gotham's socialites but Thomas Wayne springs into action and saves the day.
This version was of course discared altogether in later years, but it was a pretty cool addition to the Batman mythos.

Actually, as of Face the Face, this is canonical once again.

That story also introduced Lew Moxon as the man who hired Joe Chill to kill the Waynes. Although it's kind of an unnecessary add-on to Batman's history, it was still an excellent tale written by Batman's creator Bill Finger. The ending in which Batman dons his father's costume to take Moxon down is classic.

[Robo Ape]

Batman debuted in Detective Comics #27 (1939); Robin joined him in Detective #38 (1940), roughly a year later.

Correct.

Thanks. He didn't start off with his rogues gallery of colourful villains either did he, when he first started he used to fight ordinary criminals. It wasn't until later on that they introduced characters such as the Joker & Penguin. Why did they start bringing in these more colourful villains, was the title losing readers?

I believe the Joker was the first of the more colourful villains to be introduced but he didn't have the lunatic character he has now to later on didn't he? I know around the time of the TV show they had 'softened' his character to make him less threatening. What interests me about the Joker is they never seem to have adopted a fixed origin story for the character or a name for him before he became the Joker. The back story I know for the character is probable the most well known one for him at the moment, that is the one from The Killing Joke where he was a failed stand-up-comic who end's up having an accident at the chemical plant he used to work at.

[OverMaster]

Pre-Crisis, there was yet another retcon which had Bruce being the first ever Robin in his youth days, long before becoming Batman. The crazy part is, IIRC, his parents had not even died by that point.

[Utility Belt]

Pre-Crisis, there was yet another retcon which had Bruce being the first ever Robin in his youth days, long before becoming Batman. The crazy part is, IIRC, his parents had not even died by that point.

Yes, I remember. Young Bruce donned the costume so that could become the apprentice of this famous plain-clothes detective, and it was this detective that gave him the name of Robin because of the red vest.

[Captain Jim]

He didn't start off with his rogues gallery of colourful villains either did he, when he first started he used to fight ordinary criminals. It wasn't until later on that they introduced characters such as the Joker & Penguin.

Joker and Catwoman were both introduced in Batman #1 (spring, 1940).
Penguin was introduced in Detective #58 (Dec, 1941).
Two Face was introduced in Detective #66 (Aug, 1942).

So it didn't really take that long.

[Robo Ape]

Joker and Catwoman were both introduced in Batman #1 (spring, 1940).
Penguin was introduced in Detective #58 (Dec, 1941).
Two Face was introduced in Detective #66 (Aug, 1942).

So it didn't really take that long.

I am surprised to read that about Two face as I always thought he was a more recent introduction.

The Riddler didn't turn up until the 50's as far as I can remember the same as the Mad Hatter & Mr Freeze. Poison Ivy & Ra's al Ghul are from the 60's with Ventriloquist and Killer Croc from the 80's. Harley Quinn & Bane are obviously from the 90's.

[Kristofer]

If I am correct on this:
Harley Quinn & Dr. Harleen Quinzell was created in Batman: The Animated Series.
After her, apparent, success as a "Joker sidekick and love interest" she was brought into the comic world via Cataclysm saga.

The Riddler - Detective Comics #140 - Oct 1948
Mad Hatter - Batman #49 - Oct 1948
Mr Freeze - Batman #121 - Feb 1959
Poison Ivy - Batman #181 - June 1966
Ra's Al Ghul - Batman #232 - June 1971

[OverMaster]

I am surprised to read that about Two face as I always thought he was a more recent introduction.

The Riddler didn't turn up until the 50's as far as I can remember the same as the Mad Hatter & Mr Freeze. Poison Ivy & Ra's al Ghul are from the 60's with Ventriloquist and Killer Croc from the 80's. Harley Quinn & Bane are obviously from the 90's.

Your Two-Face confusion is easy to understand. Two-Face only had like three appearances in the Golden Age, and he only reappeared in the 70s with Denny O'Neil's run.

A similar thing happened with Riddler, who debuted in 1948, but only had two stories before the Adam West show revived him and he was brought back to comics.

[Robo Ape]

Your Two-Face confusion is easy to understand. Two-Face only had like three appearances in the Golden Age, and he only reappeared in the 70s with Denny O'Neil's run.

A similar thing happened with Riddler, who debuted in 1948, but only had two stories before the Adam West show revived him and he was brought back to comics.

Talking of the TV show, did any of the villains created specifically for the show make the transference over into the comics at the time?

[Brack360]

Talking of the TV show, did any of the villains created specifically for the show make the transference over into the comics at the time?

Mr. Freeze was originally called Mr. Zero (as in "zero degrees") in the comics and renamed Mr. Freeze for the TV show. The name "Mr. Freeze" was then brought into the comics. I can't think of any occasions where villains created specifically for the show were then introduced in the comics, however.

[Captain Jim]

If I am correct on this:
Harley Quinn & Dr. Harleen Quinzell was created in Batman: The Animated Series.
After her, apparent, success as a "Joker sidekick and love interest" she was brought into the comic world via Cataclysm saga.


Close. But it was No Man's Land, not Cataclysm.

[Captain Jim]

Your Two-Face confusion is easy to understand. Two-Face only had like three appearances in the Golden Age, and he only reappeared in the 70s with Denny O'Neil's run.

A similar thing happened with Riddler, who debuted in 1948, but only had two stories before the Adam West show revived him and he was brought back to comics.

You're correct about Riddler. In fact, both of his 1940's appearances came within just a few months.

You're wrong about Two-Face, though. He had multiple appearances in both the 1940's and 1950's.

[Kristofer]

Close. But it was No Man's Land, not Cataclysm.

Ah, thank you...
I was led to believe that Cataclysm, Road to No Man's Land, No Man's Land, and Aftershock were all considered the Cataclysm saga.

[Captain Jim]

I've never heard that. And I certainly wouldn't say that.

[Robo Ape]

Mr. Freeze was originally called Mr. Zero (as in "zero degrees") in the comics and renamed Mr. Freeze for the TV show. The name "Mr. Freeze" was then brought into the comics. I can't think of any occasions where villains created specifically for the show were then introduced in the comics, however.

I seem to vaguely remember hearing that before, but thanks for confirming it.

I wonder just how many different Batmobiles he has had in the comic? I know he started off with a fairly ordinary sedan car, again I think they only made the car more specialised later on. I don't think it was even called the Batmobile until later on in the 1940's. I know since the 1980's he seems to have had a fairly vast number of different Batmobiles, with nearly every artist on the Bat titles redesigning it.

[Augusto]

We can get all in just one story: The Untold legend of the Batman (Len Wein, Jim Aparo!!!).

There was a retcon for Robin's costume: it's the stage costume of the Flying Graysons before their death

[Augusto]

Yes, I remember. Young Bruce donned the costume so that could become the apprentice of this famous plain-clothes detective, and it was this detective that gave him the name of Robin because of the red vest.

I remember reading a black and white paperback sized reprint(Untold Tales of the Batman was the title maybe) when I was in elementary school. If I remember correctly it had an origin of Alfred story where former British army field medic Alfred Pennyworth reluctantly grants his father's dying request that he take back up the family profession of serving the last of the Wayne family in Gotham City. Adult Bruce Wayne is pretty surprised to suddenly inherit a butler. At first Alfred has no idea about his new employer's true nightly outings and thinks he's an airheaded playboy like everybody else and resents his new position. One night he's awoken by noises. He finds the open secret passage behind the clock, the Batcave, and a badly wounded Bruce Wayne in a Batman outfit. Alfred fixes Batman up using his medical training and gains a new respect for Bruce Wayne and accepts the position of butler that he resisted.

Another variation that was made (during the late 70'2 or early 80's I believe) was having Thomas Wayne be the ORIGINAL Batman. It happened like this: He and Martha Wayne went to a costume ball where the theme was flying creatures or things. Thomas dressed as a bat in a costume that was like the version seen in the very first Batman Comics, with stiff wings and short gloves, while Martha dressed as an Owl. I half recall that some crooks crash the party with the intention of robbing Gotham's socialites but Thomas Wayne springs into action and saves the day.
This version was of course discared altogether in later years, but it was a pretty cool addition to the Batman mythos.

We can read this in jus one story: The untold Legend of the Batman 1-3(Len Wein, Jim Aparo!!).

There was a retcon for Robin's costume: it's the stage costume of the Flying Graysons before their death.

[xnef1025]

We can read this in jus one story: The untold Legend of the Batman 1-3(Len Wein, Jim Aparo!!).

There was a retcon for Robin's costume: it's the stage costume of the Flying Graysons before their death.
Ah thank you. That's what it was, Untold Legends. I loved that book. I think it was my first Batman book ever.

[Utility Belt]

We can read this in jus one story: The untold Legend of the Batman 1-3(Len Wein, Jim Aparo!!).

There was a retcon for Robin's costume: it's the stage costume of the Flying Graysons before their death.

Thanks, and yes, I remember that series. Does anyone know if The Untold Legend of the Batman has been reprinted in trade paperback or included in any Batman compilation?

[Captain Jim]

As far as I know, it's only been reprinted as a mass market paperback (I believe in B&W).

[nepenthes]

Talking of the TV show, did any of the villains created specifically for the show make the transference over into the comics at the time?

Villains that need to be bought over from the show -
Shame
The Siren
Louie the Lilac


I wonder just how many different Batmobiles he has had in the comic? I know he started off with a fairly ordinary sedan car, again I think they only made the car more specialised later on. I don't think it was even called the Batmobile until later on in the 1940's. I know since the 1980's he seems to have had a fairly vast number of different Batmobiles, with nearly every artist on the Bat titles redesigning it.

http://www.batmobilehistory.com/

have a look through the chronology section. nice website

[TMM Writes Lego]

Dick Giodano made the darker version of Batman

[Robo Ape]

Just as a side question, is Bane the only villain in the character's history to comprehensible defeat him in such a way?

[TMM Writes Lego]

Just as a side question, is Bane the only villain in the character's history to comprehensible defeat him in such a way?
Ras Al Ghul maybe?

[nepenthes]

The Deacon whipped him petty good. Batman forgot who he was and shot a guy and was forced to steal eggs from innocent people. But no he never beat him in physical combat.

[filthysize]

Prometheus, heh.

[Augusto]

Talking of the TV show, did any of the villains created specifically for the show make the transference over into the comics at the time?

The Vincent Price villain, :confused: don't remember his name...:confused:

[Robo Ape]

The Vincent Price villain, :confused: don't remember his name...:confused:

You mean Egg Head, he would seem to have been one of the less likely to make a successful transfer so I am surprised to hear that.

[CBikle]

The next big change is when, after his death, Bruce Wayne becomes the new Spectre ...

Just kidding, I'm trying to see if I can start that rumor.

[Robo Ape]

I finally remembered what I wanted to ask & that was has Batman ever killed anyone? I have a feeling he has in his early days when he used a gun but since they removed the gun I don't think he has killed since.

[CBikle]

I don't think the DCU version has killed anyone since the early days(shooting Hugo Strange's monsters and I believe he killed one of Dr. Death's henchmen by kicking him in the neck and snapping it).

You could argue that he may have culpability in any deaths from collateral damage relating to the "War Games" and "OMAC" storylines...

The 1st movie version probably killed a bunch of people when he bombed the Axis Chemical Plant.

[WyldCard4]

The next big change is when, after his death, Bruce Wayne becomes the new Spectre ...

Just kidding, I'm trying to see if I can start that rumor.

I actualt think that is possible, I think Nabu talked about a perfect host for the Specter before his death, it would never last outside of Elseworlds but I feel it will happen sometime in the next 20 years.

[CBikle]

I actualt think that is possible, I think Nabu talked about a perfect host for the Specter before his death, it would never last outside of Elseworlds but I feel it will happen sometime in the next 20 years.

It's funny, but I was also thinking it'd be the kind of thing you'd see in a half-assed Elseworld's one shot.

It's a moderately interesting idea, but waaay too fan-fiction-y to really work.

[WyldCard4]

It's funny, but I was also thinking it'd be the kind of thing you'd see in a half-assed Elseworld's one shot.

It's a moderately interesting idea, but waaay too fan-fiction-y to really work.

I really hope you are right.

[Alan2099]

As far as I know, it's only been reprinted as a mass market paperback (I believe in B&W).
I know of one other case. A smaller sized version was offered as a mail away premium on some kind of breakfast cereal. I belive it was around the time the first keaton movie came out. i remember that because that's how I got my copies of those issues.

I think another major chance is the character of Bruce Wyane himself. It used to be Bruce would actually do things AS Bruce and not just stuff that helped his Batman career. For that matter, Batman used to be much friendlier towards normal people. I destinctly recall a few times he mentiond that The Batman would be seen as a symbol of hope and comfort to the innocent and fear towards criminals. I mean, Batman actualy used to show up in crowded places, in daylight, smiling. Imagine that happening now and just se how quick people jump on the net to complain that it's out of character.

[Robo Ape]

What's interesting to note is how many of the Bat's main enemies are in place so early on in his history, already by volume five of the Chronicles we already have encountered the Joker, Scarecrow, Catwoman & The Penguin. Other than Catwoman they also look much as they do now, I suppose their such 'classic' character designs their is no reason to change them.

I wonder when catwoman started wearing that ludicrous purple skin-tight suite that thankfully the character has now abandoned.

[GHalecki]

I haven't read Broken City, but it sounds a lot like Jim Starlin's version of Thomas Wayne's last night. A flashback to that day in Batman 430 (or thereabouts) has Thomas Wayne under a lot of stress. Bruce is bugging him to play catch, his dad says something like "Not now I'm busy", Bruce asks again, and his father snaps and hits him. Martha shouts "How could you?!" Thomas is in shock over what he's done and apologizes, and Bruce says that he wishes he were dead. That night he got his wish.

With the possible exception of Alan Grant, Jim Starlin is my favorite Bat-author of the past 25 years, but this issue left a bad taste in my mouth. Like Batman's origin was incomplete until we discovered that his dad abused him.

And a father who raises his voice and slaps his kid because the son is acting like a spoiled brat is in your mind ABUSIVE? To each his own.

[Lew Moxon]

I don't think the DCU version has killed anyone since the early days(shooting Hugo Strange's monsters and I believe he killed one of Dr. Death's henchmen by kicking him in the neck and snapping it).

You could argue that he may have culpability in any deaths from collateral damage relating to the "War Games" and "OMAC" storylines...

The 1st movie version probably killed a bunch of people when he bombed the Axis Chemical Plant.

The thing about the early days is that quite a few killings were accidental in context.
It wasn't as though Bruce sought to kill people, it was more like he didn't care if they were killed.
He was willing to kill, and if you pissed him off enough, he would kill you. But he was never a punisher like superhero.

That said, there were a few outright murders involved.

Sheldon Lennox comes to mind.

[Redem]

The next big change is when, after his death, Bruce Wayne becomes the new Spectre ...

Just kidding, I'm trying to see if I can start that rumor.

Just imagine Bruce Wayne saying "What I have to continue this even after I'm dead! didn't I go insane enough being Batman!can't I get some vacation! it might actually be my chance to make peace with all the girl I put in the fridge!"

[nepenthes]

I wonder when catwoman started wearing that ludicrous purple skin-tight suite that thankfully the character has now abandoned.

1993 if i'm not mistaken. She got a boost from Year One, then the Sisters Keeper GN and then of course the movie so they gave her a proper series for which artist Jim Balent designed the costume.

[Robo Ape]

1993 if i'm not mistaken. She got a boost from Year One, then the Sisters Keeper GN and then of course the movie so they gave her a proper series for which artist Jim Balent designed the costume.

Did she have much of a uniform before this point?

In the early issues she just seems to wear standard clothes for a woman of the period, apart from adopting a cat mask in one story.

[Pól Rua]

Just as a side question, is Bane the only villain in the character's history to comprehensible defeat him in such a way?

Joe Chill.

[Pól Rua]

Did she have much of a uniform before this point?

In the early issues she just seems to wear standard clothes for a woman of the period, apart from adopting a cat mask in one story.

Catwoman has had many costumes over the years.
Recently, DC published a trade collecting a bunch of appearances, and the cover has pretty much all of them.
http://www.popcultureshock.com/papes/index.php/comics/catwoman-by-brian-bolland/

They're missing the one where it's an evening dress and cape with a lifelike cat-head, and while they have the animated series outfit, they don't have the 4th season all-black one, the movie ones and the 60's tv series one.