Secret Invasion: Infiltration Timeline *Spoilers* [Archive]

Magneto Rocks

03-31-2008, 11:35 AM

I've been trying to construct a rough timeline of "The Infiltration", and this is what I've come up with. In order to make the continuity fit, several big assumptions are needed:

Day 1 starts an unspecified time after the Civil War, probably measured in a month or two at most. Also, the whole thing has to be compressed into a VERY narrow timespan, so stories like those in Tony's own title are presumably occuring between the pages.

Years Ago- After the Kree/Skrull War, the Illuminati confront the Skrulls on their homeworld, causing chaos. They are captured and studied, but eventually escape, unaware that the Skrulls desire vengeance. (NA: Illuminati #1)

Shortly before- (?) Dum Dum Dugan is replaced by a Skrull on the day Captain America dies. (SI: Prologue)

Day 1 - Two?- Mighty Avengers selected and come together. (MA 1-3- Time Captions *must* be incorrect*.)

Day 1- New Avengers formed. They battle the Mighty Avengers (NA 28-30)

Day 2- New Avengers fight The Hand in Japan. (NA 27-31). Elektra is revealed to be a Skrull. (NA 31)

Day 3- Ultron Attack on New York. (MA 1-6) NA fall apart on plane to America and Spider-Woman defects with Skrullektra corpse. (NA 32) New Avengers dissolve into paranoia and the Hood expands his group. (NA 33)

Day 4- New Avengers reassemble and determine they aren't Skrulls. (NA 34)

There is then a gap of ten days according to Mighty Avengers #8, despite the fact NA #34 implies the Venom Bomb occurs immediately afterwards. A gap makes more sense, so that's what I went for. During this time, Spider-Woman made her way back to America. Also during this time, one can assume the Skrull scene from the Initiative annual takes place.

Day 14 (??)- Spider-Woman arrives in New York and confronts Iron man with Skrullektra's body, alerting him to the invasion. (Mighty Avengers 6-7)

Day 15- Iron Man informs the Illuminati about Skrullektra, Black Bolt is revealed as a Skrull. THe Illuminati fall apart for the final time. (NA: Illuminati #5) Iron Man runs down what he knows about the Skrulls and their invasion. (Secret Invasion Saga)

Day 16- Spider-Woman joins the MA. Venom Bomb dropped on New York. (NA #36, MA 7-8) SHIELD invasion of Latveria (MA 9-11), New Avenger attack on The Hood. (NA 36-37)

Day 17- Early Morning- The Hood attacks the New Avengers. SHIELD invasion of Latveria concludes. Mid-Morning/Afternoon- Ms Marvel arrives back early with a SHIELD squad and scopes out the scene of the battle, but lets the NA go. Doc Strange quits the New Avengers. Mighty Avengers and SHIELD Helicarrier back in New York. (NA Annual)

Day 18- Luke Cage has a confrontation with Jessica Jones, the NA find a new base. (New Avengers #38) Night- Skrulls attempt to replace Echo but are foiled due to Wolverine's intervention. (NA #39)

Still To Be Placed:
1-Iron Man recieves intelligence that Ms Marvel is a Skrull and sends forces after her.(Ms Marvel #25)
2-Ms Marvel discovers the truth of the Skrull Invasion (Unknown- Before Captain Marvel #3 but after Ms Marvel #25)
3- Captain Marvel discovers he may be a secret Skrull (Captain Marvel 3-4)

Any placement which is disputable is marked in italics- feel free to contribute!

Timeline Anomalies:
-World War Hulk CANNOT take place before Day 1 but MUST take place before Day 16. It therefore has to take place in the gap between Spider-Woman abandoning the NA and her hook-up with the MA. This means Spider-Woman's presence is an impossibility here. (Though it was minor anyway)

-The NA cannot confront the MA before the latter were formed. Therefore, I have reasoned that the day of the Ultron battle was the "official" launch of the Avengers Initiative but they were actually picked and deployed beforehand, and Stark's armour countdown was incorrect.

-Doc Strange refers to "his" Avengers in the NA Annual. However, due to chronology, this must be after he has left them- presumably then, he is hiding this from Tony to protect the NA.

-Iron Man CANNOT be in a medbay on Day 13 due to the Ultron incident- it simply does not work. I'd therefore assume he's injured due to World War Hulk, even though it's not mentioned.

...Whoooh. Okay, I know I've probably put more thought into it than Bendis, or indeed, any sane person, but that is a rough timeline of "The Infiltration" thus far. I'll update it when we know more about the placement of the latter issues and the rough timespan between the discovery of Skrullektra and Secret Invasion #1.

Secret Identity

03-31-2008, 12:08 PM

This is bloody brilliant. I can only imagine that such a breakneck pace isn't even out of the norm for most heroes, to get so many real time years of comics into the marvel years, something must happen nearly every day. Often times more than one thing.

SeritoNiN

03-31-2008, 12:23 PM

I've been trying to construct a rough timeline of "The Infiltration", and this is what I've come up with. In order to make the continuity fit, several big assumptions are needed:

Day 1 starts an unspecified time after the Civil War, probably measured in a month or two at most. Also, the whole thing has to be compressed into a VERY narrow timespan, so stories like those in Tony's own title are presumably occuring between the pages.

Day 1- New Avengers formed. They battle the Mighty Avengers (NA 28-30)

Day 2- New Avengers fight The Hand in Japan. (NA 27-31). Elektra is revealed to be a Skrull. (NA 31)

Day 3- Ultron Attack on New York. (MA 1-6) NA fall apart on plane to America and Spider-Woman defects with Skrullektra corpse. (NA 32) New Avengers dissolve into paranoia and the Hood expands his group. (NA 33)

Day 4- New Avengers reassemble and determine they aren't Skrulls. (NA 34)

There is then a gap of nine days according to Mighty Avengers #8, despite the fact NA #34 implies the Venom Bomb occurs immediately afterwards. A gap makes more sense, so that's what I went for. During this time, Spider-Woman made her way back to America. Also during this time, one can assume the Skrull scene from the Initiative annual takes place.

Day 13- Spider-Woman arrives in New York and confronts Iron man with Skrullektra's body, alerting him to the invasion. (Mighty Avengers 6-7)

Day 14- Venom Bomb dropped on New York. (NA #36, MA 7-8)

Day 15- SHIELD invasion of Latveria (MA 9-11), New Avenger attack on The Hood. (NA 36-37)

Day 16- (Night) The Hood attacks the New Avengers. Presumably, the day is spent on clean-up in Latveria. Ms Marvel arrives back early with a SHIELD squad and scopes out the scene of the battle, but lets the NA go. Doc Strange quits the New Avengers. (NA Annual)

Day 17- Luke Cage has a confrontation with Jessica Jones, the NA find a new base. (New Avengers #38)

Shortly After: At unspecified points after Day 16, the following happens
1-Iron Man recieves intelligence that Ms Marvel is a Skrull and sends forces after her.
2-Ms Marvel discovers the truth of the Skrull Invasion (Must come after 1)
3- Captain Marvel discovers he may be a secret Skrull (Must come after 2)
4- A Skrull attempts to impersonate Echo but is foiled by Wolverine
5. The Illuminati gather to discuss the Skrull information and discover that Black Bolt is a Skrull.

Timeline Anomalies:
-World War Hulk CANNOT take place before Day 1 but MUST take place before Day 16. It therefore has to take place in the gap between Spider-Woman abandoning the NA and her hook-up with the MA. This means Spider-Woman's presence is an impossibility here. (Though it was minor anyway)

-The NA cannot confront the MA before the latter were formed. Therefore, I have reasoned that the day of the Ultron battle was the "official" launch of the Avengers Initiative but they were actually picked and deployed beforehand, and Stark's armour countdown was incorrect.

-Doc Strange refers to "his" Avengers in the NA Annual. However, due to chronology, this must be after he has left them- presumably then, he is hiding this from Tony to protect the NA.

-Iron Man CANNOT be in a medbay on Day 13 due to the Ultron incident- it simply does not work. I'd therefore assume he's injured due to World War Hulk, even though it's not mentioned.

...Whoooh. Okay, I know I've probably put more thought into it than Bendis, or indeed, any sane person, but that is a rough timeline of "The Infiltration" thus far. I'll update it when we know more about the placement of the latter issues and the rough timespan between the discovery of Skrullektra and Secret Invasion #1.

It's a great timeline. It's just ashame the people actually getting paid to write this stuff, should be keeping track to have it all make sense, and don't.

IronStarks

03-31-2008, 12:38 PM

wow very informative, defintly puts into perspectave on the breakneak speed everyone is moving in.

Exo

03-31-2008, 01:11 PM

Day 13- Spider-Woman arrives in New York and confronts Iron man with Skrullektra's body, alerting him to the invasion. (Mighty Avengers 6-7)

Day 14- Venom Bomb dropped on New York. (NA #36, MA 7-8)

You might be able to squeeze in a couple of days between day 13 and 14. After "the thirteenth day", Tony congratulated the team for defeating Ultron "last week". That would give him enough time to first discuss things with the Illuminati.

Magneto Rocks

03-31-2008, 01:16 PM

You might be able to squeeze in a couple of days between day 13 and 14. After "the thirteenth day", Tony congratulated the team for defeating Ultron "last week". That would give him enough time to first discuss things with the Illuminati.

Hmm, that's plausible. he Venom Bomb *has* to be dropped on day 14, but Day 13 could be moved to a few days earlier if Jessica Drew lay low in Avengers Tower in that period. It's never specifically stated to be the day beforehand, even though it's implied....

...Therefore, it may work if Day 13 is shifted to Day 12, and the Illuminati Special occurs on the *new* Day 13. It would make sense that Tony holds the meeting immediately after finding out the truth. On the other hand, there's the argument that he never mentions Black Bolt as a Skrull at all during his thought monologues in MA 7-11, even when he's obsessively thinking about them. Plus, his thoughts about "Is Reed Richards a Skrull?" etc would seem stranger if they came after he had already talked to Reed about the issue. It's quite possible though...

Exo

03-31-2008, 01:34 PM

It would make sense that Tony holds the meeting immediately after finding out the truth.

At least prior to Strange's departure in NA annual.

Plus, his thoughts about "Is Reed Richards a Skrull?" etc would seem stranger if they came after he had already talked to Reed about the issue.

Would it? There's no way for Tony to tell if Reed (from the previews of SI#1) isn't a skrull.

Ullar

03-31-2008, 02:07 PM

That is a great timeline. I have some suggestions. Illuminati #1 should be first since the Skrulls plan is set in motion there. The Online Prelude takes place the day cap dies so before NA #27? Illuminati #5 takes place After MA #7 but before the Venom Bomb and Secret Invasion Saga takes place while Tony is leaving the Illuminati meeting. NA #38-39 can take place in the same day (38 day, 39 night) and IMO they make a good lead into SI #1. Anyone have any ideas on the Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel tie ins?
With the aditions the timeline looks like

Illuminati #1
Online Prelude
NA #27-31
MA #1-6
NA #32-34
AI Annual
MA #7
Illuminati #5
Secret Invasion Saga
NA #35
MA #8-11
NA #36-37, Annual
NA #38-39

Most of these issues aren't relevent to the Invasion but fill in the time line. Personally I would leave out the Ultron and Hood issues since they don't mention the Invasion.

Magneto Rocks

03-31-2008, 02:19 PM

Hmm. You make some good points, Ullar. I was including only the issues from the day of the NA Skrull discovery, but as Secret Invasion proceeds and we learn more about when the Skrulls "replaced" people, it might be wise to add them to this- and you're definitely right about adding NA: Illuminati #1.

I included the Hood issues because they actually do mention the Skrulls, or at least deal with some of the paranoia around it, even if only in passing. Furthermore, I think they're recommended reading since the Hood story sets up NA #38, which was billed as a "The Infiltration" lead-in. THe Ultron issues aren't necessary, but the events of that story affect the Skrull-related "The Trust" over in NA, it's handy to have the day marked down anyway for continuity points, and the end of MA #6 is a direct tie-in.

I think you guys are right about Illuminati #5's placing- though it has to occur *DURING* 6, as opposed to after it. I'm updating my list now, thanks for the additions, Exo and Ullar. And thanks for the comments everybody. :)

bjtrdff

03-31-2008, 02:31 PM

The Illuminati meeting would happen before Day 17, and after Day 13. After Skrullectra is brought to Tony, before NA Annual #2. You have to figure that it's almost immediately after he gets the body. Strange is still with the Avengers, it's after WWH, and Spider-Woman has defected.

Good timeline though.

Ullar

03-31-2008, 04:05 PM

joemagnum611

03-31-2008, 06:19 PM

I've been trying to construct a rough timeline of "The Infiltration", and this is what I've come up with. In order to make the continuity fit, several big assumptions are needed:

Day 1 starts an unspecified time after the Civil War, probably measured in a month or two at most. Also, the whole thing has to be compressed into a VERY narrow timespan, so stories like those in Tony's own title are presumably occuring between the pages.

Years Ago- After the Kree/Skrull War, the Illuminati confront the Skrulls on their homeworld, causing chaos. They are captured and studied, but eventually escape, unaware that the Skrulls desire vengeance. (NA: Illuminati #1)

Shortly before- (?) Dum Dum Dugan is replaced by a Skrull on the day Captain America dies. (SI: Prologue)

Day 1- New Avengers formed. They battle the Mighty Avengers (NA 28-30)

Day 2- New Avengers fight The Hand in Japan. (NA 27-31). Elektra is revealed to be a Skrull. (NA 31)

Day 3- Ultron Attack on New York. (MA 1-6) NA fall apart on plane to America and Spider-Woman defects with Skrullektra corpse. (NA 32) New Avengers dissolve into paranoia and the Hood expands his group. (NA 33)

Day 4- New Avengers reassemble and determine they aren't Skrulls. (NA 34)

There is then a gap of nine days according to Mighty Avengers #8, despite the fact NA #34 implies the Venom Bomb occurs immediately afterwards. A gap makes more sense, so that's what I went for. During this time, Spider-Woman made her way back to America. Also during this time, one can assume the Skrull scene from the Initiative annual takes place.

Day 12 (??)- Spider-Woman arrives in New York and confronts Iron man with Skrullektra's body, alerting him to the invasion. (Mighty Avengers 6-7)

Day 13- Iron Man informs the Illuminati about Skrullektra, Black Bolt is revealed as a Skrull. THe Illuminati fall apart for the final time. (NA: Illuminati #5) Iron Man runs down what he knows about the Skrulls and their invasion. (Secret Invasion Saga)

Day 14- Spider-Woman joins the MA. Venom Bomb dropped on New York. (NA #36, MA 7-8)

Day 15- SHIELD invasion of Latveria (MA 9-11), New Avenger attack on The Hood. (NA 36-37)

Day 16- (Night) The Hood attacks the New Avengers. Presumably, the day is spent on clean-up in Latveria. Ms Marvel arrives back early with a SHIELD squad and scopes out the scene of the battle, but lets the NA go. Doc Strange quits the New Avengers. (NA Annual)

Day 17- Luke Cage has a confrontation with Jessica Jones, the NA find a new base. (New Avengers #38) Skrulls attempt to replace Echo but are foiled due to Wolverine's intervention. (NA #39)

Still To Be Placed:
1-Iron Man recieves intelligence that Ms Marvel is a Skrull and sends forces after her.
2-Ms Marvel discovers the truth of the Skrull Invasion (Must come after day 17)
3- Captain Marvel discovers he may be a secret Skrull (Must come after 2)

Any placement which is disputable is marked in italics- feel free to contribute!

Timeline Anomalies:
-World War Hulk CANNOT take place before Day 1 but MUST take place before Day 16. It therefore has to take place in the gap between Spider-Woman abandoning the NA and her hook-up with the MA. This means Spider-Woman's presence is an impossibility here. (Though it was minor anyway)

-The NA cannot confront the MA before the latter were formed. Therefore, I have reasoned that the day of the Ultron battle was the "official" launch of the Avengers Initiative but they were actually picked and deployed beforehand, and Stark's armour countdown was incorrect.

-Doc Strange refers to "his" Avengers in the NA Annual. However, due to chronology, this must be after he has left them- presumably then, he is hiding this from Tony to protect the NA.

-Iron Man CANNOT be in a medbay on Day 13 due to the Ultron incident- it simply does not work. I'd therefore assume he's injured due to World War Hulk, even though it's not mentioned.

...Whoooh. Okay, I know I've probably put more thought into it than Bendis, or indeed, any sane person, but that is a rough timeline of "The Infiltration" thus far. I'll update it when we know more about the placement of the latter issues and the rough timespan between the discovery of Skrullektra and Secret Invasion #1.

That would be a great timeline but it's already been revealed that this invasion goes back to NA #1. But still I like what you did here.

jackolover

03-31-2008, 06:24 PM

Thanks for doing this Mags. I was wondering how these things fit together, so I'm going to go over it and see how this fits.

Ullar

03-31-2008, 06:49 PM

I think the CM mini can go in the gap after WWH but I am not sure. Ms. Marvel #25 could happen before NA #38 but again, I am not sure.

jackolover

04-01-2008, 02:11 AM

I think the CM mini can go in the gap after WWH but I am not sure. Ms. Marvel #25 could happen before NA #38 but again, I am not sure.

How about this, based on Mags sorting

After Na #37
MM#24
NA Annual #2
NA #38
MM #25
CM #3
CM #4
NA #39

It just may be too early what with MM#26 and CM #5 not out yet.

Edit : Mags changes

SeritoNiN

04-01-2008, 08:54 AM

early on, from civil war, id fit in new avengers # 22 where the baby and jess go to canada, we know that at the very least, the baby came back a skrull, if not jessica as well.

Magneto Rocks

04-01-2008, 10:06 AM

Well, Captain Marvel #1 MUST take place after WWH, since it references it on page 1. The series also has constant references to "a couple of days passing" etc, so I'd probably stick #1 in between WWH and Tony finding out about the Skrulls, possible #2 as well. My copy of #4 has STILL not arrived, so I can't comment much on that yet.

But I will say Cap Marvel #3 can't occur before Ms Marvel #25 simply because Ms Marvel does NOT yet know about the Secret Invasion in #25 but DOES know by Cap Marvel 3. Furthermore, she does not *appear* to know in New Avengers #38, meaning these books must both be after this.

I'll wait until confirmed Skrull reveals before I go back and stick in other events- so that we know exactly when characters were replaced etc.

Random Remarks

04-01-2008, 11:47 AM

Great Idea Magneto Rocks, having a quick look at my copies of New and Mighty Avengers I see what you mean about timeline discrepancies between New and Mighty Avengers, and their is no way that both can be 100% accurate.

Anyway according to MA number 1 the Ultron Attack takes place on Avengers Initiative Day 1 (possibly going into day 2) and the Symbiote Invasion on Avengers Initiative Day 14, I would recommend the following additions and changes to your timeline:

1) Change your Day3 to Day 1

2) Assume that the Mighty Avengers were selected 4 days prior to Day 1 (hour to day substition in MA#1 text) this also gives time for the Raft fake Captain America trap for the NA to be set

3) Prior to day 1 have an entry for Elektra replaced (my guess would be Post Wolverine: Enemy of the State as this is when she started taking over the japanese underworld)

4) Your days 14-16 are actually just initiative Day 14!!! (possibly going into Day 15 early hours), this goes for timeline in both NA and MA that the events from NA#34-NA annual 2 and MA 7-MA 11 are all in 1-1.5 days. The only timeline that makes practical sense in this scenario is as follows

Day 14 early morning: Symbiote Attack,
Day 14 late morning: Wolverine confronts Spiderwoman, MA leave for Latveria
Day 14 afternoon: MA attack Latveria capture Doom, Ms Marvel heads back to NYC
Day 14 Evening: NA attack Hood then Hood rescues prisoners (NA 37) Hood attacks New Avengers. Doc strange quits, Ms Marvel lets NA go (NA Annual #2)

This does of course move Day 17 up to day 15 as well

5) The events of NA #39 may be a few days or even weeks after those of NA #38. Hopefully this is the case as the timeline is hectic enough as it is

XPac

04-01-2008, 11:49 AM

But I will say Cap Marvel #3 can't occur before Ms Marvel #25 simply because Ms Marvel does NOT yet know about the Secret Invasion in #25 but DOES know by Cap Marvel 3. Furthermore, she does not *appear* to know in New Avengers #38, meaning these books must both be after this.

We'll get a better idea of that one we see Carol's status quo in Ms. Marvel. If she ends up being a fugitive hunted down by SHIELD and Stark, then it wouldn't make sense for NA 38 and CM3 to be after Ms. Marvel 25 since she's obviously still with Tony and the MA.

Magneto Rocks

04-01-2008, 12:28 PM

Firstly- your first post and you're making in-depth timeline critiques? And citing books? With full grammar and punctuation?

Guys, I think we have a new fully competent forummer. :eek:

Welcome to the site. ;)

Anyway according to MA number 1 the Ultron Attack takes place on Avengers Initiative Day 1 (possibly going into day 2) and the Symbiote Invasion on Avengers Initiative Day 14, I would recommend the following additions and changes to your timeline:

1) Change your Day3 to Day 1

You're right in saying that the Ultron attack was day 1 of the Avengers Initiative, however, I wasn't numbering from the launch of the Avengers Initiative, I was numbering from the earliest day we know for definite, which is the NA/MA battle, which MUST be one day before the NA find Skrullektra which MUST be one day before the Ultron thing. If the numbering is confusing for people, I can change it- and it may be easier to keep track of that, to be honest.

2) Assume that the Mighty Avengers were selected 4 days prior to Day 1 (hour to day substition in MA#1 text) this also gives time for the Raft fake Captain America trap for the NA to be set

I'm not sure it's exactly 4 days, but we're in full agreement on this point, and that works.

3) Prior to day 1 have an entry for Elektra replaced (my guess would be Post Wolverine: Enemy of the State as this is when she started taking over the japanese underworld)

Yup- again, as I've said before, I'll put this in when we know *exactly* when she was replaced, instead of guessing.

4) Your days 14-16 are actually just initiative Day 14!!! (possibly going into Day 15 early hours), this goes for timeline in both NA and MA that the events from NA#34-NA annual 2 and MA 7-MA 11 are all in 1-1.5 days. The only timeline that makes practical sense in this scenario is as follows

Day 14 early morning: Symbiote Attack,
Day 14 late morning: Wolverine confronts Spiderwoman, MA leave for Latveria
Day 14 afternoon: MA attack Latveria capture Doom, Ms Marvel heads back to NYC
Day 14 Evening: NA attack Hood then Hood rescues prisoners (NA 37) Hood attacks New Avengers. Doc strange quits, Ms Marvel lets NA go (NA Annual #2)

Whoops! Your comments made me do some re-reading, and I found more contradictions.

NA #35 places the Mighty Avengers briefing at night, suggesting they attack the day after the Venom Bomb, but Mighty Avengers #9 does indeed place it on the same day. Since it's an MA story, I'll give it priority. (Though it makes even LESS sense when you consider the time difference!) This would mean the attack on the hood was placed on the same evening, day 16 by my timeline, into the early hours of day 17.

...Unfortunately, little of this makes sense. There is absolutely no feasible way Ms Marvel could be back by early day 17 as she is in NA Annual, made even less feasible when one considers the Avengers have not yet returned to Stark Tower. Now, assuiming this isn't the Skrarol who's running around, the only sensible solution to my mind is to assume the following;

1. The Latverian Battle and Clean-up took up most of Day 17
2. The Hood attacked Doctor Strange's place late in Day 17- after all, he had to mount a break-out, gather all the villains, hunt down Tigra, beat her up etc, then head to Strange's place. There is nothing in the story to suggest the attack is *IMMEDIATELY* after NA #37 after all- it can even be assumed that the New Avengers went out on a different mission during the day and are returning from it.
3. The Mighty Avengers returned that evening. While they were still on the Helicarrier, Carol got word of trouble and scoped it out, leading to her appearance in the NA Annual. She then returned to the carrier and arrived at Stark Tower with the rest of the Avengers in NA #38.

It's far from perfect, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Nevertheless, thank you for your contributions- you pointed out a big flaw I hadn't noticed here, and I'll update my timeline now!

5) The events of NA #39 may be a few days or even weeks after those of NA #38. Hopefully this is the case as the timeline is hectic enough as it is

I doubt weeks, given the urgency of the pacing, but yes, it's current placing is temporary until we know more.

TotalWorldDomination

04-01-2008, 12:29 PM

Ok guys, you know I have the utmost of respect for ya, but trying to make a timeline out of this event is like trying to shove a spoon into an electrical socket. It's not going to fit and even if it dose you're probably worse off.

Point 1- Even if you think that the events of Mighty Avengers one only take place as a day one of the "offical" program and that the team was assembled before that, you've got additional problems.

Wasp and Iron Man imply that the team has had no time to work out how to fight together- yet they were set on ambushing the NA's with the fake cap corpse. Smart? No.

Ares joins the team the same day as the ultron fight, yet is there for the cap ambush. Annoying? yes.

Perhaps most hair-pullingly of all, Silent War takes place after the formation of the Mighty Avengers (They Fight them on a few occasions) but BEFORE the last issue of Illuminati. Also note that Spider-Woman is not on the team. So that means the ENTIRETY of silent war must take place between day 3 and day 12. Last I checked that was a pretty busy time for them... when did they find the time?

And yet... During WWH, Black Bolt was not in prison or underground when the hulk arived and was with his wife who his brother stole during Silent War. This means that WWH has to take place BEFORE the last issue of silent war. Meaning that WWH has to happen around day 10.

Also note with Silent War that the FF were Reed, Sue, Johnny and Thing so the first issue has to take place AFTER Black Panther and Storm filled in.

TotalWorldDomination

04-01-2008, 12:35 PM

...Unfortunately, little of this makes sense.

That's all you had to say old friend. All you had to say...

Magneto Rocks

04-01-2008, 12:40 PM

Ok guys, you know I have the utmost of respect for ya, but trying to make a timeline out of this event is like trying to shove a spoon into an electrical socket. It's not going to fit and even if it dose you're probably worse off.

Possibly.

But damnit, it's like the Fifty States Initiative- it's a good idea, and while mistakes made by those higher than us may screw us over, in the end IT WILL BE MADE TO WORK! :p

Point 1- Even if you think that the events of Mighty Avengers one only take place as a day one of the "offical" program and that the team was assembled before that, you've got additional problems.

Wasp and Iron Man imply that the team has had no time to work out how to fight together- yet they were set on ambushing the NA's with the fake cap corpse. Smart? No.

Ares joins the team the same day as the ultron fight, yet is there for the cap ambush. Annoying? yes.

Absolutely. Again, there are times when the placing of people and captions must simply be IGNORED. Neither of those things make an awful lot of sense, but it's still the only explanation which even vaguely works- and it's nothing compared to what on EARTH Spider-Woman is doing in Civil War. Or why no-one mentions World War Hulk- like, ever.

Perhaps most hair-pullingly of all, Silent War takes place after the formation of the Mighty Avengers (They Fight them on a few occasions) but BEFORE the last issue of Illuminati. Also note that Spider-Woman is not on the team. So that means the ENTIRETY of silent war must take place between day 3 and day 12. Last I checked that was a pretty busy time for them... when did they find the time?

And yet... During WWH, Black Bolt was not in prison or underground when the hulk arived and was with his wife who his brother stole during Silent War. This means that WWH has to take place BEFORE the last issue of silent war. Meaning that WWH has to happen around day 10.

Also note with Silent War that the FF were Reed, Sue, Johnny and Thing so the first issue has to take place AFTER Black Panther and Storm filled in.

Another good point, but I'm going to wait until we know more about how Black Bolt was replaced on this one.

...Worst case scenario, we literally just ignore it. This is a timeline of "THe Infiltration", and is meant to be used for reading "The Infiltration", I'm not trying to compile a timeline of every single event between Civil War and Secret Invasion. (Hmm.... maybe that'w my next project? :p) So if there's simply NO way to make Silent War fit... well, it's lucky Silent War doesn't appear to have a major SI tie-in and can be ignored, isn't it? ;) Hell, it doesn't make a great deal of sense that the Illuminati would meet up within DAYS of the Hulk's rampage and scarcely mention it, but there you go!

TotalWorldDomination

04-01-2008, 12:59 PM

...Worst case scenario, we literally just ignore it. This is a timeline of "THe Infiltration", and is meant to be used for reading "The Infiltration", I'm not trying to compile a timeline of every single event between Civil War and Secret Invasion. (Hmm.... maybe that'w my next project? :p) So if there's simply NO way to make Silent War fit... well, it's lucky Silent War doesn't appear to have a major SI tie-in and can be ignored, isn't it? ;) Hell, it doesn't make a great deal of sense that the Illuminati would meet up within DAYS of the Hulk's rampage and scarcely mention it, but there you go!

mmm, good points. I suppose an incorrect timeline to the event is better then no timeline or sense of continuity at all.

Still makes me nuts though. ;)

Random Remarks

04-01-2008, 01:40 PM

Possibly.

Absolutely. Again, there are times when the placing of people and captions must simply be IGNORED. Neither of those things make an awful lot of sense, but it's still the only explanation which even vaguely works- and it's nothing compared to what on EARTH Spider-Woman is doing in Civil War. Or why no-one mentions World War Hulk- like, ever.

Not quite true Dr Strange mentions having his hands crushed in NA annual #2when he quits but I agree that it is not mentioned as much as it should be. It is also possible that the spell Mephisto cast for Spiderman as well as erasing the marriage and memories of the unmasking also made everyone forgot that world war hulk and silent war have happened as an unintended side effect :D

More seriously I would not be surprised if it turns out the significant delays to Mighty Avengers were in part responsible for the lack of a suitable place for Silent War and World War Hulk if they led to alterations in the planned plot of NA from #32 onwards, and Mighty Avengers post #6. Bendis did say in an interview that a Mighty Avenger would defect to the New Avengers which has not happened, perhaps the initial plan was for Spider-Woman to defect back to the New Avengers. The events of World War hulk could then have been fitted into the time line and allow for Spider Womans appearance with the New Avengers.

jackolover

04-01-2008, 03:44 PM

Also note with Silent War that the FF were Reed, Sue, Johnny and Thing so the first issue has to take place AFTER Black Panther and Storm filled in.

I would put Silent War and Namors war before WWH. That is, after Panther and Storm handed back the FF, and left. But the appearance of Panther and Storm in WWH makes P + S appearances, as an interim period before they left. So placing Silent War after WWH is logical , (Because P +S don't appear), accept for Bolts appearances. Could Attilan have been partially repaired by the time of Hulks visit, and Bolt went out to meet Hulk, because he was still the supreme protector of the Inhumans?

XPac

04-01-2008, 04:50 PM

Silent War is kinda tough to decisively place because it was a big spread out event. It started before Civil War ended and likely ended just prior to WWH starting. But until we have that Inhumans series, there's likely no way to really understand how that timeline works out as far as Black Bolt is concerned.

Perhaps after Silent War, the real Black Bolt goes into hiding and is replaced by a Skrull. And the Skrull is the one that has the unfortunate luck of dealing with WWH.

TotalWorldDomination

04-01-2008, 05:25 PM

well since the Inhumans left Attilan at the end of Silent War, perhaps both Medusa and BB in that event are skrulls...

XPac

04-01-2008, 05:35 PM

well since the Inhumans left Attilan at the end of Silent War, perhaps both Medusa and BB in that event are skrulls...

I'm sure that will be addressed one way or the other in the Inhumans Secret Invasion story. That said, it's as good an explanation as any.

It might help to explain Black Bolts loss to Huk, considering Black Bolt has an undefeated record against him. The Skrull impersonating him presumably isn't as powerful. Though we are talking about an uber Hulk, so perhaps no excuse is necessary.

joemagnum611

04-01-2008, 06:20 PM

hey guys, What about NA 1? It's been hinted that the Skrulls had something to do with the break out @ the Raft. So wouldn't that be #1 in the chain of events?

Random Remarks

04-02-2008, 02:12 AM

Just a quick point about NA fighting the Hoods gang: According to Ms Marvel in NA#38 the two hood fights took place on the same night

Random Remarks

04-02-2008, 02:59 AM

NA #35 places the Mighty Avengers briefing at night, suggesting they attack the day after the Venom Bomb, but Mighty Avengers #9 does indeed place it on the same day. Since it's an MA story, I'll give it priority. (Though it makes even LESS sense when you consider the time difference!) This would mean the attack on the hood was placed on the same evening, day 16 by my timeline, into the early hours of day 17.

...Unfortunately, little of this makes sense. There is absolutely no feasible way Ms Marvel could be back by early day 17 as she is in NA Annual, made even less feasible when one considers the Avengers have not yet returned to Stark Tower. Now, assuiming this isn't the Skrarol who's running around, the only sensible solution to my mind is to assume the following;

1. The Latverian Battle and Clean-up took up most of Day 17
2. The Hood attacked Doctor Strange's place late in Day 17- after all, he had to mount a break-out, gather all the villains, hunt down Tigra, beat her up etc, then head to Strange's place. There is nothing in the story to suggest the attack is *IMMEDIATELY* after NA #37 after all- it can even be assumed that the New Avengers went out on a different mission during the day and are returning from it.
3. The Mighty Avengers returned that evening. While they were still on the Helicarrier, Carol got word of trouble and scoped it out, leading to her appearance in the NA Annual. She then returned to the carrier and arrived at Stark Tower with the rest of the Avengers in NA #38.

It's far from perfect, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Nevertheless, thank you for your contributions- you pointed out a big flaw I hadn't noticed here, and I'll update my timeline now!

I reread NA#38 last night and according to Ms Marvel the two Hood fights take place on the same night (quote: ... Cage's guys just took down an entire gang of SHIELD agent murderers, high-risk bad guys twice in one night.) This also IMO confirms that it is the same Carol in NA Annual #2 and NA #38

I agree though that to allow for the Hood to break his people out of SHIELD custody, find Tigra and get to Dr Stranges house it is likely that the NA in the annual are either (a) returning from another mission or (b) has a post victory celebration somewhere before returning to their HQ.

Also note that the SHIELD Heli-carrier has returned from Latveria by evening/night of your Day 17 as it appears briefly in NA Annual #2 over Langley with Maria Hill aboard and Maria Hill is aboard the Helicarrier at the end of MA #11. This suggests that all the Mighty Avengers will be back in the US by that time.

It would be useful if anyone knew the maximum speed of the new SHIELD heli-carrier since a coherant timeline is IMO only possible if it is capable of supersonic (or better yet hypersonic) speeds. Though this does remind me of a quote from JMS about the speed of starfuries in Babylon 5 saying they "travel at the speed of plot"

There is also nothing in NA#38 that states that it has to be the day after Annual #2 Jarvis states in NA#38 that "it's been a rather dramatic turn the last day or two" so you probably have the timing right for the Cage confrontation (i.e. if Hood fight 2 Day 16 late night or 17 early morning then confrontation Day 18 am when the Might Avengers have reformed after a day or two off). Similarly the finding of the new base does not have to be the same day as the Cage confrontation (it just states later in NA#38) though I agree it is probably later the same day.

ShaggyB

04-02-2008, 08:07 AM

Not quite true Dr Strange mentions having his hands crushed in NA annual #2when he quits but I agree that it is not mentioned as much as it should be. It is also possible that the spell Mephisto cast for Spiderman as well as erasing the marriage and memories of the unmasking also made everyone forgot that world war hulk and silent war have happened as an unintended side effect :D

Id say not as Hulk#1 has to be happening somewhere in there. Puts tony back on the old shield heli-pad doesnt it? Isnt that where he is in his book, Captain Marvels book and in Captain America? Also in Hulk books its clear that bruce is locked up due to WWH.

I think the most glaring thing with spidey is that todays issue has him in a red suit with wolvie and dr. stange as a new avenger. (should be black suit spidey at that point)

Magneto Rocks

04-02-2008, 10:46 AM

hey guys, What about NA 1? It's been hinted that the Skrulls had something to do with the break out @ the Raft. So wouldn't that be #1 in the chain of events?

Again, for now this is just a timeline of the immediate lead-up to Secret Invasion. If there is a demand (And there seems to be), it can be expanded whenevr possible.

I reread NA#38 last night and according to Ms Marvel the two Hood fights take place on the same night (quote: ... Cage's guys just took down an entire gang of SHIELD agent murderers, high-risk bad guys twice in one night.) This also IMO confirms that it is the same Carol in NA Annual #2 and NA #38

Sadly, since it means she needs to possess some sort of super-superhuman abilities, you're right.

Also note that the SHIELD Heli-carrier has returned from Latveria by evening/night of your Day 17 as it appears briefly in NA Annual #2 over Langley with Maria Hill aboard and Maria Hill is aboard the Helicarrier at the end of MA #11. This suggests that all the Mighty Avengers will be back in the US by that time.

Hmm, you're right. I'll make a note of that in the timeline- y'never know what's important!

It would be useful if anyone knew the maximum speed of the new SHIELD heli-carrier since a coherant timeline is IMO only possible if it is capable of supersonic (or better yet hypersonic) speeds. Though this does remind me of a quote from JMS about the speed of starfuries in Babylon 5 saying they "travel at the speed of plot"

I think we're going to have to assume that the helicarrier does this (Thankfully, we can always just no-prize it that Tony Stark made some BIG adjustmenets) in order to make things fit. So help me God, we shall hammer out a functional timeline!

There is also nothing in NA#38 that states that it has to be the day after Annual #2 Jarvis states in NA#38 that "it's been a rather dramatic turn the last day or two" so you probably have the timing right for the Cage confrontation (i.e. if Hood fight 2 Day 16 late night or 17 early morning then confrontation Day 18 am when the Might Avengers have reformed after a day or two off). Similarly the finding of the new base does not have to be the same day as the Cage confrontation (it just states later in NA#38) though I agree it is probably later the same day.

I'm compressing things as much as possible for now simply because I'm afraid Bendis is going to throw us in an insane timeline reference to screw everything up in "Secret Invasion" (IE: "We found the Elektra Skrull last week!") Once we have a better idea of SI's position in relation the Infiltration, and the last few Infiltration issues of Capt. Marvel and Ms Marvel, this can be dealt with in more detail.

And again, thanks for your help, RR, your scrutiny is INVALUABLE in making this work.

Also, I'm gonna throw out a little personal request here, guys- since over here in the UK we don't get comics until Thursday and I want to avoid spoilers as much as possible, I won't be on comic sites as much as normal tonight, but I *will* check this thread, so please, please, please, please don't put up any SI spoilers or suggest this be updated with such details until tomorrow night. ;)

Random Remarks

04-02-2008, 12:18 PM

And again, thanks for your help, RR, your scrutiny is INVALUABLE in making this work.

Also, I'm gonna throw out a little personal request here, guys- since over here in the UK we don't get comics until Thursday and I want to avoid spoilers as much as possible, I won't be on comic sites as much as normal tonight, but I *will* check this thread, so please, please, please, please don't put up any SI spoilers or suggest this be updated with such details until tomorrow night. ;)

Your Welcome, I am in the UK as well and last week was especially annoying as neither of my local stores got the comics until Friday.

A few more comments on the timeline

From checking the recent MA hardcover collecting 1-6 it appears the Ultron attack covers two days with it ending in the morning of your Day 4.

As for the New Avengers timeline after the plane crash. There are two additional time references that I can find one in the hotel where Wolverine mentions that they have been without sleep or food for 2 days (NA#33) and another by Jessica Jones when she mentions being stuck at Doctor Stranges for 4 days. Assuming they left for Japan on Day 2 and they have been without food from Day 4 that means the return to Dr Stranges is probably on Day 6 and the spell cast on Day 7. Though it could possible be fudged to be a few days later

This is slightly better but the NA and MA timelines still dont gel, two possible ways out for your timeline (1) Dr Stranges spell actually took place on Day 15 or 16 in an off panel change of plan due to the events of World War Hulk, (2) While the Symbiote attack seemed to take place immediately after the spell meeting, it was as placed and the NA had been scoping Avengers tower for 9 days waiting for the attack to take place so they could jump in to help. IMO option (1) is the best bet

Your day 16 and 17 are still slightly wrong as the Heli-carrier is back by Day 16 evening (Maria Hill had just returned from interviewing the Hoods Lackeys at the raft). I would put them down as follows

Day 16: Spider-Woman joins the MA. Venom Bomb dropped on New York. (NA #36, MA 7-8) SHIELD invasion of Latveria (MA 9-11), Evening: New Avenger attack on The Hood. (NA 36-37) Mighty Avengers and SHIELD Helicarrier back in New York (NA Annual 2) Late evening Hood frees lackeys from the Raft (NA #37)

Day 17- Early Morning- The Hood attacks the New Avengers leading Doc Strange to quit the NEw Avengers, Ms Marvel arrives with a SHIELD squad and scopes out the scene of the battle, but lets the NA go.

SeritoNiN

04-03-2008, 08:02 AM

I think you can add, New Avengers # 3, the re-introduction of Jarvis, whom returns as a skrull.

Hank Pym died in Avengers Initiative # 9, so the skrull Pym hasn't been around long.

Random Remarks

04-03-2008, 03:12 PM

At the end of Secret Invasion #1 Joe Q implies that Secret War and House of M may also have some input on Secret Invasion, going from quotes, forewords and anything else that may be of use, I have come up with a rough timeline for the major events from Avengers Disassembled onwards for the Bendis books.

Starting Point: Avengers Disassembled
+ 3 months: Secret War part 2 (Fury Quits)
+ 6 months: New Avengers Form (At start of NA Hardcover 1 it states 6 months from Avengers Disassembled)
+ 6.5 months: House of M (NA#15 a few days after House of M Cap states that it was couple of weeks ago that the New Avengers formed)
+ 7 months Civil War
+ 7.5 months Elektra skrull killed

My reasons for placing Secret War where it is, is based on Jessica Jones being pregnant but not visibly so, it allows Luke Cage to heal, gives Spider Woman a reasonable length time of being given bad assignments (NA14) and is not so long that it would be well known that Nick Fury was no longer head of SHIELD. It could be a bit earlier or later though, from the previews of MA 12 it looks like Secret War will be revisited so a more precise date may be given.

Civil War is located no more than 1 months after the New Avengers form as
in Echos letter to Daredevil (NA #27) she refers to the New Avengers being sent to her a month ago (a pre House of M event) and she refers to Civil war, in addition in NA #30 Luke Cage refers to the New Avengers forming just weeks before Civil War.

The most uncertain part is when the Elektra Skrull is killed as it assumes that Echos letter was sent shortly after being written and was not a longer term fail safe,

This does all bring into perspective just how short a time period all these events are crammed into in the part of the marvel universe written by Bendis.

Just a final note on the Mighty Avengers formation in NA#28 spider woman states she has been sitting on the Captain America information for 2 days which she got from Ms Marvel suggesting that the Mighty Avengers will have been formed by then.

Bingo!

04-03-2008, 05:30 PM

Magneto and Random,

The work both of you have placed in creating and refining this time line is impressive! This is an amazing resource that I'm sure others outside CBR will use. I hope you receive the credit.

Magneto, I understand you're focusing on 'The Infiltration.' Any chance you'll expand to include all parts of this far reaching story? Random has suggested a starting point of Avengers Disassembled. This might be a great way to help flush out possible appearance conflicts which might suggest someone is a Skrull. There's one character in particular I strongly suspect will outed as a Skrull this way. I don't have any proof, but just in case I'll keep the spoiltags on.
Wolverine. He has spent much of his time just sitting around with the NA. Wolverine seems oblivious to everything else he's currently going through in the X-titles. When was the last time he left the NA group? I don't recall him missing any major NA events. Is it possible that he's spent the past 18 days continuously with the NA? His character has been present for so many important Avengers and X-Men events. I don't believe for a minute he's the same Wolverine running with X-Men, leading X-Force, and hunting Mystique. There must be a conflict somewhere!

Once I have my collections in order, I'll see if I can help prove this.

SeritoNiN

04-03-2008, 09:24 PM

Well, apparently a lot goes down in the Marvel U in a month. If you read New Avengers # 27, Maya Lopez sends an email to Matt Murdoch, "if she died". In the e-mail she explains it's been "one month" since the Avengers approached her. (This happened in New Avengers # 11!!!) So New Avengers # 11 - # 27 is one month. Spider-man during a battle, in the same issue, # 27, comment's "ah Logan that was before the house of m and our little civil war", this confirms house of m and civil war, both after issue # 11, but before # 27 happened throughout this "month". :eek:

This also means the dead skrull Elektra who is mentioned at the end of issue # 13 as taking the power in the group the hand, was only in charge for a month, before dying and being revealed as a skrull to the new avengers in issue # 31.

This would also mean the fifty state initiative was formed in 2 weeks. :eek:

And World War Hulk happened in here too.

Minus the inconsistency of the state initiative, I guess it would be kind of cool for all this &^^$ to happen in a month. Especially given they were sitting around the last few years not doing much of anything. (Thank you Marvel, for focusing primarily on your Ultimate line Jemas-era) (Which raises a question for another thread, why does every one hate Q so much, I think he;s done great things with the company)

Kirk G

04-03-2008, 10:06 PM

Does anyone know for sure if Marvel is planning to print an issue or two that explains the complete timeline of the invasion including the New Avengers clues?

How about an issue that specifies (after the fact, probably) who was abducted, or switched, and just when and where.

I'm hearing a lot of fans asking for that sort of explanation as this storyline gets rolling.

And elsewhere, fans are constructing their own timelines in the absence of one from Marvel...

jackolover

04-04-2008, 03:08 AM

I have a request Mags. I know you're placing books for the aim of Secret Invasion, and I'm grateful, because it has been invaluable.

ASM has been bugging me, as to where to place them, so I was wondering could please give some thought to where ASM #546 and #555 would go. I think #555 goes before SI #1.

Random Remarks

04-04-2008, 05:58 AM

After re-reading the Secret War trade and New Avengers volume 1 (NA: 1-10) I have realised that Marvel need to keep a better track of continuity especially with any dates given as they can be seriously contradictory even within the same publication. I have however come up with a rough timeline including actual dates!!! for some events from evidence in the Secret War trade, the New and Mighty Avengers and the House of M trade

In the SHIELD transcripts at the back of the Secret War hardcover an approximate date of 6/12/2005 is given for Secret War based on the date of a recording taken that states it takes place a day after the attack on Luka Cage takes place and from the date of the recording that Captain America contacts SHIELD after he is attacked.

However another document dated 6/22/06 (a year later) states that it has been a few weeks since the events of secret war, even worse the recording of the conversation between Maria Hill and the president is dated 4/15/2007 and seems to be just after she became acting director as the president implies it is within her first three months as he says his first three months were like a fever dream. While the 06 date is probably a typo (should be 05) the Maria Hill date is harder to reconcile with events unless Jessica Jones had a VERY long pregnancy!!!!. I will assume the date of 12th June 2005 is correct

What makes things worse is that in NA#7 a date can be seen on a webpage on Reeds "computer" giving a date of May 6 2005 (5/6/05) and the headline NEW Avengers? which puts this before the events of Secret War!! and if accurate would mean secret war was set after House of M, Civil War and possibly World War Hulk!!! given the rapidity of events in the Bendisverse, this date I am ignoring as artistic license as it is not significant to the story and in small type.

The House of M trade also supports the Bendis Marvel universe still being in 2005 as one of the Daily Bugle articles states it is the 50th Anniversary of Captain Americas walk on the moon which is given as happening in 1955. In addition the gala for Magneto is occuring on the anniversary of the mutant rebellion and a date given of August 18 1979 for a fight against sentinals in Newyork. Assuming that is the date of the anniversary and Wanda has not caused time travel as well I think we can put the date of the end of House of M as around August 18th. Taking all the evidence into consideration I think the Bendis timeline is something like this:

12th June 2004: Secret War part 1 (Attack on Latveria)

February 2005: Avengers Disassembled (6 months prior to NA and House of M)

12th June 2005: Secret War part 2 (Fury quits assumes date in secret war trade is correct)

Early August 2005: Breakout from Raft, New Avengers formed

Prior to August 18th 2005: Sentry Arc, Ronin Arc

August 18th 2005: End of House of M, Hawkeye Reborn and goes to see Doctor Strange (assumes that Magnetos gala takes place on the 18th August)

August 20th 2005: New Avengers press conference (House of M wave two days earlier NA#14)

August 21st ish 2005: The Collective arc starts (Maria Hill states that House of M was a week ago and that she had just caught the Avengers press conference and Tony says he had been up for 2 days straight)

Late August/Early September 2005: NA annual 1 Cage baby born and Luke Cage and Jessica Jones marry

Early-Mid September 2005: Civil War (Luke Cage places the formation of the avengers as weeks before Civil War)

Mid-Late September 2005: Echo writes a failsafe e-mail to Daredevil in case anything goes wrong (NA 27, allows for a month ago comment to be correct but does not mean it was sent immediately)

Heres where the timeline gets iffy as we dont know a) How long after being written the e-mail was sent and b) The captions about Hawkeyes ressurrection says several months ago and this is confirmed in dialogue on his return to Dr Stranges house as Doctor Strange says that Hawkeye visited him months back. Late on Wolverine asks Hawkeye where he has been the last few months when describing why anyone could be a skrull.

This suggests to me that it has been 2-4 months since Hawkeyes return placing the start of the trust arc of New Avengers between Mid October 2005- Mid December 2005, and then we get the timeline that Magneto Rocks has formed.

The main problem with trying to tie in other titles is that I get the impression that writers of titles assume all titles are taking place at a similar time even if there is no way that can be the case. I would not be surprised if some titles claim House of M was years ago and the same with Civil War and possibly World War Hulk. For the sake of sanity and clarity I suggest any timeline improvements suggested be limited to title written by Bendis or closely linked to the Avengers. Finally dont be afraid to ignore my dates or sugest better ones as I admit my evidence is fairly flimsy though I think the order of events is fairly accurate as well as the distance between them

Magneto Rocks

04-04-2008, 10:25 AM

Here's my problem here- I think we're on the verge of two timelines. One is the timeline of The Infiltration, the other is the timeline of "The Marvel Universe: Avengers Disassembled-Secret Invasion". And while the latter is a fascinating idea, it's not what this thread's for and it's not something I wish to start. (Though if someone else does, I'll gladly contribute)

With that in mind, I've thought about it but I'm not marking down ANYTHING else unless it has a proven sizable connection to The Infiltration. Even though we know things like "Breakout" are tying in, at this stage I just want to focus on the period between the Skrullektra reveal and Secret Invasion. Once we have a solid timeline for THAT, then we can expand. There's so much scope that I think we can focus heavily here on the period from the Skrullektra reveal onwards. It would also probably be possible to compile a seperate timeline of EVERYTHING between the end of the Civil War and said reveal and combine the two into a mega-timeline (Then combine THAT with Civil War... ;) ) but again, I think we're delving too deeply into a "Complete History of the Marvel Universe" thing here.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and expand this timeline to cover Secret Invasion itself as well. I won't be getting all the tie-in issues (Though I'll be getting most), so I'll need to be kept updated on some things, but I figure this should be closer to WWH than Civil War in terms of time compression (All in, say, a week) so it shouldn't be QUITE as sprawling as CW.

I have a request Mags. I know you're placing books for the aim of Secret Invasion, and I'm grateful, because it has been invaluable.

ASM has been bugging me, as to where to place them, so I was wondering could please give some thought to where ASM #546 and #555 would go. I think #555 goes before SI #1.

Simply put, it doesn't. Spidey is wearing his Back inBlack threads in NA Annual 2, but not in NA #38 which occurs about a day later. My suggestion, therefore, is this- in NA #38, he's wearing the normal costume that he returns to wearing in OMD, but it's still pre-OMD. OMD occurs immediately afterwards, then *no prize explanation about how 'a few months' have passed in Spidey but not anywhere else'* then ASM 546.

We do know it occurs before Ms Marvel #25, so once we have that placed, we'll have a better idea. :)

roundman

04-04-2008, 10:33 AM

Well, apparently a lot goes down in the Marvel U in a month. If you read New Avengers # 27, Maya Lopez sends an email to Matt Murdoch, "if she died". In the e-mail she explains it's been "one month" since the Avengers approached her. (This happened in New Avengers # 11!!!) So New Avengers # 11 - # 27 is one month. Spider-man during a battle, in the same issue, # 27, comment's "ah Logan that was before the house of m and our little civil war", this confirms house of m and civil war, both after issue # 11, but before # 27 happened throughout this "month". :eek:

This also means the dead skrull Elektra who is mentioned at the end of issue # 13 as taking the power in the group the hand, was only in charge for a month, before dying and being revealed as a skrull to the new avengers in issue # 31.

This would also mean the fifty state initiative was formed in 2 weeks. :eek:

And World War Hulk happened in here too.

Not to mention the whole destruction of Atlantis/ Atlantean infiltration that occur in the Namor miniseries- that had to have happened sometime between the end of Civil War and the beginning of WWH.

I wonder if the secret Atlanteans will have any role in the Secret Skrull Invasion, or if that storyline will be ignored for now.

Random Remarks

04-04-2008, 11:46 AM

Here's my problem here- I think we're on the verge of two timelines. One is the timeline of The Infiltration, the other is the timeline of "The Marvel Universe: Avengers Disassembled-Secret Invasion". And while the latter is a fascinating idea, it's not what this thread's for and it's not something I wish to start. (Though if someone else does, I'll gladly contribute)

With that in mind, I've thought about it but I'm not marking down ANYTHING else unless it has a proven sizable connection to The Infiltration. Even though we know things like "Breakout" are tying in, at this stage I just want to focus on the period between the Skrullektra reveal and Secret Invasion. Once we have a solid timeline for THAT, then we can expand. There's so much scope that I think we can focus heavily here on the period from the Skrullektra reveal onwards. It would also probably be possible to compile a seperate timeline of EVERYTHING between the end of the Civil War and said reveal and combine the two into a mega-timeline (Then combine THAT with Civil War... ;) ) but again, I think we're delving too deeply into a "Complete History of the Marvel Universe" thing here.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and expand this timeline to cover Secret Invasion itself as well. I won't be getting all the tie-in issues (Though I'll be getting most), so I'll need to be kept updated on some things, but I figure this should be closer to WWH than Civil War in terms of time compression (All in, say, a week) so it shouldn't be QUITE as sprawling as CW.

I understand, and I would not want to try to make a complete history either, since as I implied in previous posts, continuity wise the marvel universe is a mess, and while I dont think exact dates or times need to be given in an ideal world marvel would have an editor whose job it was to ensure that there was reasnable continuity between titles. The examples given in this thread of the impossibility of both Mighty Avengers and New Avengers giving accurate times even though Bendis writes them both, where does OMD fit in, not to mention that the events of World War Hulk cannot fit anywhere in the New or Mighty Avengers timeline demonstrate the need for this.

Going back to world war hulk as there is no valid place to put it, I would be tempted to place it a month prior to the start of your timeline as this would also explain the uselessness of Doc Strange on the crashing plane returning from Japan (my cloak doesnt work in NA #32) assuming he is not a skrull. I would also suggest there is a 3-4 month gap between the end of civil war and the NA leaving for Japan. This would also allow for events in other titles to take place as well especially if it is revealed that certain characters e.g. Wolverine ARE NOT skrulls.

As for Echos letter/e-mail and her last month comment, as I previously stated this was written as a failsafe to let Daredevil know she was in trouble when she realised the Avengers had split up during the civil war and could not be relied upon to help so IMO this time reference can be ignored. Finally I hope I have made your task easier if you need to put in infiltration references from earlier events such as Secret War or Breakout.

jobies201

04-04-2008, 01:15 PM

Wolverine. He has spent much of his time just sitting around with the NA. Wolverine seems oblivious to everything else he's currently going through in the X-titles. When was the last time he left the NA group? I don't recall him missing any major NA events. Is it possible that he's spent the past 18 days continuously with the NA? His character has been present for so many important Avengers and X-Men events. I don't believe for a minute he's the same Wolverine running with X-Men, leading X-Force, and hunting Mystique. There must be a conflict somewhere!

Once I have my collections in order, I'll see if I can help prove this.

I think this is due to the fact that Wolverine is involved in so many different things. It's more of a writer thing then a skrull thing, in my opinion.

jackolover

04-04-2008, 08:25 PM

Simply put, it doesn't. Spidey is wearing his Back inBlack threads in NA Annual 2, but not in NA #38 which occurs about a day later. My suggestion, therefore, is this- in NA #38, he's wearing the normal costume that he returns to wearing in OMD, but it's still pre-OMD. OMD occurs immediately afterwards, then *no prize explanation about how 'a few months' have passed in Spidey but not anywhere else'* then ASM 546.

We do know it occurs before Ms Marvel #25, so once we have that placed, we'll have a better idea. :)

Thanks for your suggestion Mags

jackolover

04-04-2008, 08:40 PM

Mags,

I have been reading the timeline as you compiled it and here is a few comments.

Why did you place Illuminati #5 after the Ultron attack? Strange mentions the Hulk and CW, so that makes it after WWH, so after NA #34. But Tony says, "we've only got a day, at most", so that makes it just before SI #1, and so, after NA #39. Illuminati #5 doesn't seem to fit after MA #7, as MA go straight from the Stark Towers toast by Wonderman, to the Venom virus. No gap there.

And in MA #8, Hank mentions Janet left him in England, and she questions that. But Hank gives Jan "improved' growth formula. Did Hank slip her a nanotech trigger, so Hank could reduce her anytime he wanted? And if so, Wasp is kidnapped now.

What's curious with MA #8 is that it starts with Stark Tech labels like Tony is monitoring Jan and Hank. Does Hank have Stark Tech too?

Widow asks. 'Are we being invaded? (again)", in reference to WWH.

Iron Man surmises a list of heros as Skrulls and Black Bolt is one of them. Illuminati #5 hasn't happened yet, otherwise Tony would have already known BB was a Skrull.

And again, in MA #8, we have a glitch. I never saw it before. Small wasp flies passed Carol, and then 2 panels later, Carol says, " I'll try and wake up Janet". (Presumably because Giant Janet was still unconscious after being king hit by Sentry). Why didn't I notice this?

tv horror

04-04-2008, 09:04 PM

I noticed that the invasion may have started back in the fifties, How you ask!! Well in the first panel of Secret invasion 1 to feature Hank Pym, why does he look like Kevin Mccarthy from Invasion of the bodysnatchers. Could the invasion be planned that far back (Aha). He loves you.

XPac

04-04-2008, 09:13 PM

If the biggest plot problem with Spider-Man concerns his costume, maybe we should just chalk it up to him wearing whatever costume he feels like.

The only reason he stopped wearing the black costume was because it bothered MJ after Venom threatened her. But that whole thing may not make sense if MJ never found out about Peter's identity... so maybe that never happened and he feels free to switch costumes at his leisure.

Magneto Rocks

04-05-2008, 04:11 AM

Why did you place Illuminati #5 after the Ultron attack? Strange mentions the Hulk and CW, so that makes it after WWH, so after NA #34. But Tony says, "we've only got a day, at most", so that makes it just before SI #1, and so, after NA #39. Illuminati #5 doesn't seem to fit after MA #7, as MA go straight from the Stark Towers toast by Wonderman, to the Venom virus. No gap there.

There *is* a gap in MA #7 between Spider-Woman delivering the body to Tony and between Tony letting her join the Avengers. There was some discussion about Illuminati's placement but it HAS to be before the Venom Virus (Since Strange is still with the Avengers in it and he leaves in the Venom Virus/Latveria/Hood 2 day period) and yet after Tony gets the body. That means logically, it goes after Tony got the body but before Spider-Woman joined the Avengers/The Venom Virus, between the pages of MA #7. We can assume Tony's "We have a day at most" etc was totally disrupted by other factors such as said virus, the Latveria attack, etc.

And in MA #8, Hank mentions Janet left him in England, and she questions that. But Hank gives Jan "improved' growth formula. Did Hank slip her a nanotech trigger, so Hank could reduce her anytime he wanted? And if so, Wasp is kidnapped now.

Yup...but until we know more, I don't want to add anything.

What's curious with MA #8 is that it starts with Stark Tech labels like Tony is monitoring Jan and Hank. Does Hank have Stark Tech too?

An interesting question...

Widow asks. 'Are we being invaded? (again)", in reference to WWH.

Iron Man surmises a list of heros as Skrulls and Black Bolt is one of them. Illuminati #5 hasn't happened yet, otherwise Tony would have already known BB was a Skrull.

Well remember, this story DOES occur after World War Hulk. The Black Bolt thing is an anomaly; Illuminati HAS to occur before this story, it's the only possible way to fit in Doctor Strange's appearance.

And again, in MA #8, we have a glitch. I never saw it before. Small wasp flies passed Carol, and then 2 panels later, Carol says, " I'll try and wake up Janet". (Presumably because Giant Janet was still unconscious after being king hit by Sentry). Why didn't I notice this?

I didn't notice it myself either, but there was some discussion on it at the time, I recall.

jackolover

04-05-2008, 06:29 AM

Random Remarks

04-06-2008, 03:34 AM

Thanks for the clarification, Mags.

The only explaination I can give you for Dr. Stranges reappearance was that Strange mentions, 'We agreed not to meet again'. Even though Strange said goodbye in NA, Tony could have still been able to track him down this last time. But I don't have anymore reservations than that.

Here is this tentative realignment then,

MA #9 -11 then here is a good break for all these other books to play out
Cap Marv #3,4,5 Because Carol is still in Tonys good books, Marv to be revealed
MM #24 Tony suspects Carol as Skrull
NA #37 Hood defeated First time, Spidey in Black suit
NA Annual #2 Hood defeated second time, Spidey in Black suit
(ASM #546) First appearance of Spidey in old suit
NA #38 Cage tells MA to look out for Skrulls
(Marvel Holiday Special #1) Editor is a Skrull
MM #25, 26, 27 Tony hunts down 2 Carols, one is a Skrull
NA #39 X-men Skrull attacks Echo and Wolvy
Illuminati #5 Super Skrull killed, X-Men Skrull and Avengers Skrull Killed?
Secret Invasion Saga Tony reviews all he knows about Skrulls
Secret Invasion #1 Tony and SHIELD taken out by Skrulls

I know Illuminati #5 is out of order, but see how it reads first and then decide.

The problem with that order is that the dialogue from NA #37, Annual 2 and NA#38 make it clear that the events of MA #9-11 and NA#37-38 are happening at about the same time. As ASM is not directly linked to the infiltration i would ignore it for terms of this timeline.

As for the XMEN skrulls assuming the skrulls are still limited to mixing 4 power sets (may have more powers) then there are at least 2 skrulls out there (possibly 3). The skrull in Illuminati #5 and MM #25 may be the same skrull with a powerset combining Cyclops, Wolverine, Collosus and Nightcrawler, however the skrull in NA #39 has Cyclops, Nightcrawler and Firestar/Human torch plus one unknown power set, which I assume would be something to aid in pretending to be echo. I suspect that there are multiple skrulls with the same or similar optimised power sets, to cover long range fighting (cyclops), hand to hand fighting (wolverine), defense (colossus) and Escape (Nightcrawler)

I do agree that there needs to be a substantial gap of at least 1 month between MA 11 and SI 1, just so there is sufficient time for events in other marvel titles to play out (is Xavier still badly injured in X-Men?)

As for the placement of Illuminati #5, I think it will be shortly after MA #11 as Stanges dialogue can be interpreted to fit in with the events of NA annual #2having happened. I suspect Tony would then have spent some time trying to work out what the skrull had done to hide himself before calling on Reed and Pym to help the analysis when he had reached a dead end..

jackolover

04-07-2008, 04:38 PM

The problem with that order is that the dialogue from NA #37, Annual 2 and NA#38 make it clear that the events of MA #9-11 and NA#37-38 are happening at about the same time. As ASM is not directly linked to the infiltration i would ignore it for terms of this timeline.

Thanks. I'll check that out.

joemagnum611

04-07-2008, 08:33 PM

Bingo!

04-10-2008, 02:23 AM

Simple X-continuity doesn't run in with regular continuity unless it fits their stories.

Bah! I still think I'm right. :tongue:

Random Remarks

04-10-2008, 04:06 AM

Thanks. I'll check that out.

Slight error on my part the dialogue which makes the timeline clear (NA Hood/ MA Latveria) is actually in NA 36 just before the fight starts.

This comment is slightly off topic but does anyone else feel that the delays in the release of MA caused some changes in the story for NA. I get the feeling that the NA were initially not meant to be involved in the symbiote storyline but instead were meant to go straight to fighting the hood which would be taking place at the same time as the symbiotes in MA.

IMO what the initial story was that during the Hood/Wolverine issue Wolverine discovers that the Hood is planning to rob the bank and after the break in the NA then track the hood down and the first hood battle occurs. These events would be concurrent with the symbiote attack (as indicated from the story on TV which states it is happening live). I suspect that while feelinglike filler NA 35 would have happened even if MA had not been delayed though possibly in a reduced form and combined with the actual fight. The events of the annual would be the same but set later on in time and not on the same night as the first fight.

Ullar

04-16-2008, 02:40 PM

Anyone have an idea on the Cap mini?

jackolover

04-16-2008, 04:53 PM

Slight error on my part the dialogue which makes the timeline clear (NA Hood/ MA Latveria) is actually in NA 36 just before the fight starts.

This comment is slightly off topic but does anyone else feel that the delays in the release of MA caused some changes in the story for NA. I get the feeling that the NA were initially not meant to be involved in the symbiote storyline but instead were meant to go straight to fighting the hood which would be taking place at the same time as the symbiotes in MA.

IMO what the initial story was that during the Hood/Wolverine issue Wolverine discovers that the Hood is planning to rob the bank and after the break in the NA then track the hood down and the first hood battle occurs. These events would be concurrent with the symbiote attack (as indicated from the story on TV which states it is happening live). I suspect that while feeling like filler NA 35 would have happened even if MA had not been delayed though possibly in a reduced form and combined with the actual fight. The events of the annual would be the same but set later on in time and not on the same night as the first fight.

Yes, that Symbiote and Hood shift, in NA, did feel a little forced, when reading it, because it went from discovering the Hoods plans for the bank robbery, to the Cyborg being carried away on a stretcher, and the NA didn't get involved. They make jumps in the NA, but MA has to remain on track.

jackolover

04-17-2008, 12:26 AM

Iron Man #28 makes a good bookend for the post-WWH series, and SI #1 starts the new series, Cap Marv #6 either just following or just preceeding it.

TuPeT

04-17-2008, 11:17 AM

Wolverine. He has spent much of his time just sitting around with the NA. Wolverine seems oblivious to everything else he's currently going through in the X-titles. When was the last time he left the NA group? I don't recall him missing any major NA events. Is it possible that he's spent the past 18 days continuously with the NA? His character has been present for so many important Avengers and X-Men events. I don't believe for a minute he's the same Wolverine running with X-Men, leading X-Force, and hunting Mystique. There must be a conflict somewhere!

But didnt Wolverine saved Echo, from the X-Men Skrull? I'm mean, could be an act, but wouldn't it be better if they took echo too?
The only explanation for him being a skrull, is that of him being the one that doesn't know he is not original.

joemagnum611

04-18-2008, 12:18 AM

Ullar

04-26-2008, 07:18 PM

Is this going to be just the infiltration or will it cover the whole Invasion?

Olivier

04-27-2008, 12:04 PM

I think you can begin to planify Avengers disassembled, New avengers, Secret War, Civil War when we know how all is connected. Good and interesting work.

I have a question: do we know if House Of M is part of the invasion?

Jack Tango

04-27-2008, 02:05 PM

You know, until I stopped to think about it specifically, down to the day, I had absolutely no problems with the timeline. Everything happened vaguely "before," and that was good enough for me.

(Oh, and Random Remarks? Comic books do that all the time to make themselves feel "fresh" and in the "now." So, you'll see some newspaper headlines with the actual date/year on them. Othertimes, the year will be blurred out as if the ink got smudged. It's one of those irrelevant points that doesn't really affect the story. I mean, crap, Superman's celebrated, like, 23 Christmases since Crisis on Infinite Earths, and he's still only 35.)

Anyway, it's neat to see the errors, though, I find it funny that most of them are made in books written by the same man.

Magneto Rocks

04-27-2008, 03:34 PM

Is this going to be just the infiltration or will it cover the whole Invasion?

I've been a bit distracted lately, but yeah, this will cover the whole invasion.

What's really irritating are the flashbacks we're seeing in the Avenger books because it's pretty much impossible to place something based "Months Ago" as this inevitably spurs questions as to whether it was after/before story X or y etc.

XPac

04-27-2008, 03:51 PM

I think getting a sense of time in all of this is nearly impossible because Bendis books all seem to fit in such a tight time frame. From reading his books, it really seems like everything since CW seemed to take place in a matter of weeks. Maybe even days.

Yet in Iron Man, apparently we've gotten a jump in months since WWH where everything was rebuilt.

Everything is on different tracks, and Bendis books have such short tight timelines that it's impossible to really accomodate anyone elses stuff into them.

Ullar

04-27-2008, 04:19 PM

I think the Captain Marvel mini takes place in the 10 day gap. I also think that Incredible herc 116 takes place right before SI1 and that MM 25 takes place before that.

Bingo!

05-02-2008, 10:46 AM

I've been a bit distracted lately, but yeah, this will cover the whole invasion.

What's really irritating are the flashbacks we're seeing in the Avenger books because it's pretty much impossible to place something based "Months Ago" as this inevitably spurs questions as to whether it was after/before story X or y etc.

I've been pleasantly surprised by Bendis' non-linear story-telling, but you're right. This style does nothing to help us build a time-line.

How do you place the events of NA40 or MA12 on a time line?

Ullar

05-02-2008, 09:25 PM

Just put them after SI1 in the order they came out.

Random Remarks

05-05-2008, 11:46 AM

From the time references given so far I think we can give approximate times for events in New Avengers prior to Civil War (and Mighty Avengers #12) in relation to one another and similarly with the events in New Avengers 27-38 and Mighty Avengers 1-12 issues to date.

What is not so certain at the moment is the following in approximate chronological order: Note I am only including major events and events in Bendis titles I am not including other titles Miss Marvel, Spiderman, Avengers: The Initiative, Captain Marvel etc as I dont read them

1) When was the Countess replaced by a skrull AND is this a permanent skrull identity or one which skrulls take up when convenient. I suspect that even if there is not 1 skrull permanently in the role that the countess was "removed" by the skrulls to ensure no suspicion is raised

2) When the ending of NA#40 takes place has to be prior to the events of NA#31 for obvious reasons BUT is it before or after the formation of the New Avengers? Personally I suspect after since it puts her in a much better position to do damage than before

3) How long after Civil War do NA #27 and MA#1 take place, IMO it has to be >1 week but <3 months but an exact timeframe is unclear

4) The timing of world war hulk, given the breakneck pace of events in NA 27-38 and MA 1-12, IMO the most logical places for it to have occured are either before these events took place or between MA 6 and MA 7 and in NA 33-34 after they get back to New York and before Wolverine informs them about the Hoods plan

5) Timing of meeting in Illuminati #5, IMO the place that fits best given Iron Mans internal monologue in MA#8 is after MA 12 and NA 38 the second best place is in the middle of MA#7 and prior to the NA meeting where Strange casts his spell showing what everyone most wants to be

6) How long after NA#38 does NA#39 take place, IMO a week at most but could be up to 2 weeks

7) How long after NA#39 and MA#11 does Secret Invasion #1 take place

My Approximate Times for Pre Civil War events

I am using Avengers Dissassembled (AvDis) as the starting point as there are the most references timewise to it

Pre AvDis events

Untold Years Previously:

Kree Skrull War
Soon after K/S War: Illuminati #1: Illuminati captured and samples taken then NA #40: Princess Veranke sent into exile when she predicts Galactus will devour skrull worlds and the Annihilation wave
Years later (NA#40): Galactus devours Skrull Throneworld

Year prior to AvDIs:

Warrior Siri takes place of Elektra on Earth (NA#40)
Secret War invasion of latveria occurs (Secret War)

Avengers Dissassembled
+1 month: Secret War attack on New York occurs (Secret War)
+2 months: Nick Fury kills skrull impersonating Countess Valentina (MA#12)
+4 months: Nick Fury contacts Spider Woman informing her of the skrull threat (MA~12)
+6 months: Formation of New Avengers (Intro to NA#1 claims 6 months from Av Dis)
1.5-2.5 week period covering the events of New Avengers 1-15 as in NA#15 Captain America places the events at the raft as a couple of weeks ago
+6 months: House of M (intro to hardcover claims 6 week since AvDis occurs prior to NA 15 and possible the last page of NA 13 as well)
+7 months: Start of Civil War

Unknown (Pre NA#31): Princess Veranke returns from Exile, Elektra skrull reports to her and Spider Woman identified as possible replacement identity for her (NA#40)

Note on placement of timing of Secret War:

The attack on latveria is prior to Avengers Dissassembled as they are mentioned, but given the lack of any mention of the avengers in the "present day" events it IMO indicates it has to be after AvDis. As Maria Hill appears to be in charge of SHIELD in NA#4 and Spiderwoman refers to the events of Secret War putting her on hospitality detail at the raft (NA#1) in NA#14 it has to be prior to NA#1. Given Nick Furys comments in MA#12 to Spiderwoman asking her to get back into SHIELD and the lack of mention of the Avengers or Civil War I put this event prior to NA#1 and so given our current knowledge IMO the best placement for NIck Furys departure due to the Secret War attack on New York is 1 month after AvDis to allow time for the other events in MA#12 to take place prior to NA#1

Bingo!

05-13-2008, 11:25 PM

When did SHIELD begin mining Vibranium in the Savage Land? I know NA3 takes the team out there, but were there earlier references to SHIELDs activity there?

Random Remarks

05-15-2008, 07:34 AM

After reading Mighty Avengers 13 I think we can cautiously place the start of Secret Invasion as ten months after the events of Secret War.

Assuming MA #12 and #13 are in chronological order we can account for four months in MA#12 and at the start of MA#13 it states 6 months ago. Assuming the point of reference is the start of secret invasion we get ten months.

If the gathering of the caterpillars took place in a short time frame after the scene in question between Fury and Daisy Johnson then we can also assume that it is a similar amount of time since the end of civil war (Ares is now an avenger, Dr Strange has shut up shop). The problem is placing it in context of the events of New and Mighty Avengers if this is the case.

Given that the post civil war events in New and Mighty Avengers apparantly occur in a time frame of less than a month and we have to fit in WWH somewhere in the continuity mess then I see two possibilities until we get more information assuming the caterpillers are gathered shortly after the Nick and Daisy scene.

1) The events of NA and MA occur about 5 months post Civil War, in this scenario WWH occurs before the NA go to Japan (and the Ultron attack) with SI starting shortly after.

2) The events of NA and MA occur about 1-2 months after the end of Civil War with WWH occurring shortly before the symbiote attack or before the NA go to Japan, and SI starts 4-5 months later. The Avengers Initiative dates given in MA would support this scenario

Hopefully the events of later NA and MA flashback issues will give a better idea of when these events happened

mikekerr3

05-15-2008, 11:08 AM

well since the Inhumans left Attilan at the end of Silent War, perhaps both Medusa and BB in that event are skrulls...

Don't mess with a Skrull bad enough to blow chunks of the moon visible from earth orbit:biggrin:

jackolover

05-15-2008, 09:30 PM

When did SHIELD begin mining Vibranium in the Savage Land? I know NA3 takes the team out there, but were there earlier references to SHIELDs activity there?

Not to my knowledge, so I'd say it was introduced solely by Bendis to propogate his story about the Skrulls. Bendis does things like that, because he introduced Von Bardas as the Latverian Monarch out of nowhere, just for Secret War

Bingo!

05-16-2008, 06:57 PM

The attack on latveria is prior to Avengers Dissassembled as they are mentioned, but given the lack of any mention of the avengers in the "present day" events it IMO indicates it has to be after AvDis. As Maria Hill appears to be in charge of SHIELD in NA#4 and Spiderwoman refers to the events of Secret War putting her on hospitality detail at the raft (NA#1) in NA#14 it has to be prior to NA#1. Given Nick Furys comments in MA#12 to Spiderwoman asking her to get back into SHIELD and the lack of mention of the Avengers or Civil War I put this event prior to NA#1 and so given our current knowledge IMO the best placement for NIck Furys departure due to the Secret War attack on New York is 1 month after AvDis to allow time for the other events in MA#12 to take place prior to NA#1

I have all these issues and it looks like you're correct on this.

Do you think the placement of the SHIELD helicarrier above San Jose, Ca in MA12 has any importance?

Random Remarks

05-17-2008, 09:37 AM

I have all these issues and it looks like you're correct on this.

Do you think the placement of the SHIELD helicarrier above San Jose, Ca in MA12 has any importance?

I doubt it has any importance unless someone can find a comic in this timeframe which places it there, in which case it may have some minor importance

Bingo!

05-17-2008, 05:27 PM

I doubt it has any importance unless someone can find a comic in this timeframe which places it there, in which case it may have some minor importance

There's only two significant reasons I Maria Hill's helicarrier would be in proximity to San Francisco. Jessica Drew lives in SF and currently a Celestial idly standing in SF's Golden Gate Park, though how it's been there unknown (UXM 496). Other than that, I'm reaching. :redface:

Bingo!

05-22-2008, 09:56 AM

Grabbed this from the Mighty Avenger 16 spoilers thread. Good catches, but haven't confirmed then. I think MagnetoRocks doesn't get his new issues for a few days after most of us, hence the spoiler tags.

NOW, I haven't seen anyone mention this, so if it was brought up I apologize, but regarding the time lines, when we see Jarvis ask to look @ Sentry's file and in the background Spider-Woman complaining about having to wear her costume, I went back and found this page is from New Avengers # 14 or 15, just before the New Avengers announce themselves as a team to the media.

This is interesting for several reasons because for uber nerds like me, it helps us place dates.

- This means by at the latest since issue 14 or 15, the empress has been posing as Spider-Woman. I'm still going to hold true to my belief that jess was switched out during the raft break in issue 2 or 3.

- This also means back when we saw the elektra skrull in new avengers # 40, talking about how she's been on earth for a cycle, this means, since the empress is now a skrill in 2006's Na # 14/15, that this elektra skrull has been on earth since then and even before then, as well.

....

Can't say Strange isn't a skrull. The srkull's obviously weren't in agreement about Strange and this meeting they had in this issue took place ahead of civil war, Strange did go leave to meditate in civil war # 3 and they could have switched him out then.

It just confirms up to this point, Strange was Strange.

Thanks for the issue, Bendis.

Random Remarks

05-23-2008, 02:13 AM

Bingo, Magneto like me lives in the UK this means that most weeks comics are released on Thursdays and on weeks where there is a bank holiday monday Fridays

Anyway MA#14 does confirm that alot of replacements were pre civil war (Jarvis, Hank Pym, Empress skrull etc) and that they have a meeting discussing sentry at some point post NA#15 (were Jarvis gets access to the files) and pre Civil War, my guess is after NA#20 as the events of NA#15-20 leave little time for a secret skrull meeting. I would also guess that most replacements were pre NA#1 as the NA#1-NA#20 timeframe is less than a month (possibly 3 weeks IIRC).

We get conformation that the Empress is living in the Avengers Tower with Jarvis at least some of the time, confirming that the Empress is disguised as a Jessica. Unfortunately the art and dialogue does not allows us to 100% confirm that it is Jessica Drew present as from what is seen and said the Empress could easily be Jessica Jones instead.

Bingo!

05-23-2008, 12:41 PM

Bingo, Magneto like me lives in the UK this means that most weeks comics are released on Thursdays and on weeks where there is a bank holiday monday Fridays.
Great. Good to know. I'll continue to use caution when posting to your threads on Wendesday. I hate when someone spoils something I'm looking forward to reading.
Anyway MA#14 does confirm that alot of replacements were pre civil war (Jarvis, Hank Pym, Empress skrull etc) and that they have a meeting discussing sentry at some point post NA#15 (were Jarvis gets access to the files) and pre Civil War, my guess is after NA#20 as the events of NA#15-20 leave little time for a secret skrull meeting. I would also guess that most replacements were pre NA#1 as the NA#1-NA#20 timeframe is less than a month (possibly 3 weeks IIRC).

We get conformation that the Empress is living in the Avengers Tower with Jarvis at least some of the time, confirming that the Empress is disguised as a Jessica. Unfortunately the art and dialogue does not allows us to 100% confirm that it is Jessica Drew present as from what is seen and said the Empress could easily be Jessica Jones instead.

I can confirm that the woman at the Skrull meeting wearing the trench coat with turned-up collar in MA14 looks exactly like Jessica Drew when she's leaving the Avengers at the end of New Avengers 15.

Ultrawolf

05-24-2008, 01:29 PM

I don't know if anyone is keeping up with Punisher War Journal....

*spoilers*

but the Countess is working with Domino and Silver Sable to take down Castle under G.W. Bridge's command. Now, we know War Journal is in Continuity so this Countess -must- be a Skrull. What does this mean?

Ullar

05-24-2008, 05:45 PM

moonknight11

05-24-2008, 07:10 PM

*Brain explodes*

Random Remarks

05-25-2008, 01:38 PM

In case anyone is interested I have put a summary of what I think the infiltration timeline is so far on a dedicated page on my blog:

http://randomremarks.wordpress.com/secret-invasion/

I also hope put in my blog a summary of the main events from the Secret Invasion and Avengers books

Feel free to leave suggestions for improvements for the timeline but note I am primarily using the Bendis books alone (New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, and Secret Invasion) and only putting in details from other books if (a) I have read them myself and (b) are relevant to the events in the main Secret Invasion book

vijay79

05-25-2008, 01:42 PM

There's only two significant reasons I Maria Hill's helicarrier would be in proximity to San Francisco. Jessica Drew lives in SF and currently a Celestial idly standing in SF's Golden Gate Park, though how it's been there unknown (UXM 496). Other than that, I'm reaching. :redface:

The reason the Celestial is standing in SF is from the Eternals mini. He is standing there to determine if humanity sucks(basically). If it sucks, he'll wake up. Read that Mini, its great.

Bingo!

05-26-2008, 12:24 AM

The reason the Celestial is standing in SF is from the Eternals mini. He is standing there to determine if humanity sucks(basically). If it sucks, he'll wake up. Read that Mini, its great.

Which mini are you talking about? The Eternals mini hasn't come out yet...

DeadXMan

05-26-2008, 12:35 AM

Which mini are you talking about? The Eternals mini hasn't come out yet...

it came out last year

The ongoing hasn't came out.

Haquim

05-26-2008, 02:59 AM

Decepticons_Rule

05-26-2008, 03:05 AM

I hope they don't retcon House of M and say Scarlett Witch was a Skrull.

That'd suck, and make Magneto and Quicksilver look realy stupid.

Haquim

05-26-2008, 06:00 AM

I hope they don't retcon House of M and say Scarlett Witch was a Skrull.

That'd suck, and make Magneto and Quicksilver look realy stupid.

Unlikely, IMHO. If the skrulls had the power to change reality at their whim duplicating the powers of the Scarlet Witch, they would have simply erased all the opposition to their invasion...
No, Wanda, like Sentry (much more so than Sentry, probably) is so powerful Skrulls cannot hope to copy her powers.

vijay79

05-26-2008, 07:09 AM

Yep, the Eternals mini by Neil Gaiman and J.Romita Jr. It's a great read and it introduces the sleeping celestial.
Btw one has to wonder why would skrulls want a world with a being like that waiting to pass judgement on it. The sleeping celestial was so powerful it took the whole host to deal with him, and Galactus himself was afraid of him too.
The only logical reason I can see for skrulls to want earth knowing that thing is on the planet is they got something like the infinity gems togheter (but I doubt that's the case, we know at least SOME of the Illuminati have not been replaced, like Doc Strange and Iron Man) and working.
The only other option is Bendis decided to ignore the Celestial.

I think you may be thinking too logically about this. Bendis has already confirmed that there are religious connotations behind what the Skrulls are doing. Thinking this way takes some hubris. They can either think (1) the dreaming celestial has nothing to do with them, (2) when its judgment comes, they will be worthy, (3) If it wakes up, they will overpower it, or (4) Bendis decided to ignore it.

As reality has shown, the attack itself can be very coordinated although the motives for the attack are illogical. They want a planet that most have never been on nor do they originate in any way, shape, or form. Their motives are illogical.

Insofar as the Infinity Gems, I'm not convinced that the Illuminati got all of them. I just re-read Infinity War. Adam Warlock gets all 5 gems together, tries to use it and they shut down. Then Galactus appeals to the Living Tribunal and he defers to Eternity. Eternity decides to let them work together. The villian of the book beleives he gets them all, although he never gets the reality gem. So he's beaten and Eternity pulls a "oh my bad," and decrees that they never ever shall work again. Therefore the point is that I don't think the Illuminati got them all together. Because when Reed had the gauntlet, the gems were working.

I guess my question is:
(1) Was this rule adressed at any point? I was out of comics for several years.
(2) Have the Skrulls ever been interested in the Gauntlet?
(3) Didn't Infinity Crusade suck?

Haquim

05-26-2008, 07:58 AM

I think you may be thinking too logically about this. Bendis has already confirmed that there are religious connotations behind what the Skrulls are doing. Thinking this way takes some hubris. They can either think (1) the dreaming celestial has nothing to do with them, (2) when its judgment comes, they will be worthy, (3) If it wakes up, they will overpower it, or (4) Bendis decided to ignore it.

As reality has shown, the attack itself can be very coordinated although the motives for the attack are illogical. They want a planet that most have never been on nor do they originate in any way, shape, or form. Their motives are illogical.

Insofar as the Infinity Gems, I'm not convinced that the Illuminati got all of them. I just re-read Infinity War. Adam Warlock gets all 5 gems together, tries to use it and they shut down. Then Galactus appeals to the Living Tribunal and he defers to Eternity. Eternity decides to let them work together. The villian of the book beleives he gets them all, although he never gets the reality gem. So he's beaten and Eternity pulls a "oh my bad," and decrees that they never ever shall work again. Therefore the point is that I don't think the Illuminati got them all together. Because when Reed had the gauntlet, the gems were working.

I guess my question is:
(1) Was this rule adressed at any point? I was out of comics for several years.
(2) Have the Skrulls ever been interested in the Gauntlet?
(3) Didn't Infinity Crusade suck?

1. Yes, although the Living Tribunal is more powerful than any other marvel entity aside from God, AKA the heart of the Universe (as explained in "Marvel the End" IIRC). The gems cannot work togheter by the Living Tribunal decree (as he exeeds the power of the combined gems) in the 616 reality. This is different in other realities. Besides there's one gem not even Thanos possessed, the 7th gem, Ego, possessing the consciousness of Nemesis the being from whom the gems come from in the first place. The Illuminati do not have this gem, Although its only power is recreating Nemesis.
2. Not in any significant way I can think of. Yet having captured Black Bolt it stand to reason they learned of the Gems and consequently want to get them or at least prevent the Illuminati from using them.
3. It was worse than Infinity War, and war was worse than Gauntlet, yes. Yet Crusade did not deal with the infinity gems.

Random Remarks

05-27-2008, 09:13 AM

Just to let people know I have put together a timeline of spider womans actions in the Bendis books

http://randomremarks.wordpress.com/secret-invasion/spider-woman/

One thing I did note that everything she mentioned telling SHIELD or HYDRA about in her double agent role in NA#14 is significant:

The Scorpio Key: One of Bendis' Electra books is about this unfortunately I have not read this book so I dont know if there is anything else significant about it though the dialog suggests that this scene was set before the Electra book

The Gods Eye Defense Initiative: The Illuminati used a malfuctioning Gods eye sattelite to get the Hulk into space which indirectly led to World War Hulk

The Caterpillar File: It has been revealed Nick Fury has used this file to recruit a team to fight the skrulls

jackolover

06-14-2008, 05:00 AM

Random Remarks

06-14-2008, 07:52 AM

I have a slight problem with the timeline.

We know that MA #14 happened immediately after NA #15 where the NA are introduced to the public. In this the Skrull meeting takes place, mentioning that they will let the Registration and the Hulk issues play out.

My problem is, Black Bolt Skrull hasn't yet been to the NA Illuminati Road to CW meeting, mentioning these things, because that happens like 4 months (publishing time) from when MA #14 was supposed to take place.

So how do the Skrulls know Registration and the Hulk problem will be played out, if nobody has mentioned it in the hero community?

Firstly we dont know the exact time of the meeting in MA#14 only that it is post NA#15 and Pre Civil war and while I agree that it could have taken place shortly after if not imemediately after the press scene in NA#15, it is possible it took place a few days or weeks later

Secondly publishing time does not mean alot in comics and it is not uncommon to have comics coming out referencing events that have yet to finish in other comics.The hulk meeting and registration act meeting were two different meetings with the hulk meeting probably taking place around the time of House of M (not sure if before or after) and the Registration Act meeting takes place 1 month later.

Thirdly the Black Bolt skrull may not have been the source of the information the skrulls could just as easily got the information from a SHIELD skrull (no shortage at the meeting), Jarvis (he has access to all of Tony Starks records) or from a skrull close to the President (there is also a good chance that the president is a skrull).

Finally even though I enjoy Bendis' comics when it comes to forming a workable continuity he leaves much to be desired, and this is just within comics that he writes excluding the wider marvel world