Huh? This guy obviously hates feminism.

[cedardryad]

So upon doing research of pagan monoliths in Portugal I came across this site.

http://www.debunker.com/patriarchy.html

At first since it was a link to an article, I didn't think it was anti-feminist until i got to one section of the article. This was in response to Goddess worship in Gnostic Gospels.

"Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of Life." Jesus replies, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven" [Nag Hammadi Library in English (Harper & Row, 1981) p. 130]. The Gnostic "Sophia [Wisdom] of Jesus Christ" says "These are all perfect and good. Through these was revealed the defect in the female" [p.221]. In the Gnostic Dialogue of the Savior, Jesus directs his disciples to "Pray in the place where there is no woman," and urges that "the works of womanhood" be destroyed [p.237-8]. In several Gnostic works, God the Father is praised and celebrated as "thrice-male" [p.364,375,446]. Anyone who has been persuaded that Gnosticism was pro-feminist has been duped by political propaganda masquerading as scholarship.

Ouch.

Apparently this guy has some choice views on feminism. He also doesn't believe that there was ever a time where there was a female centric civilization and there is no proof either.

http://www.debunker.com/texts/goddess_rem.html

I would agree with a lot of this stuff if i didn't take an archeology class that proved otherwise. There were findings of women who did fight in wars and also women who hunted alongside men.

I think this guy should talk with that Joss Whedon hating chick.

[diana_fan]

He should MATE with her.


:)

[cedardryad]

And make babies that are asexual and hermits. Because all sexes are oppressive and such.

Of course if he mated with her it would be called rape.

[MartinRedmond]

Wait, what race is he? I don't want her to mate with a racist.

[rick]

Apparently this guy has some choice views on feminism. He also doesn't believe that there was ever a time where there was a female centric civilization and there is no proof either.

http://www.debunker.com/texts/goddess_rem.html

I would agree with a lot of this stuff if i didn't take an archeology class that proved otherwise. There were findings of women who did fight in wars and also women who hunted alongside men.


Well the guy obviously does have an axe to grind, but I have to say that in that one set of posts, he was absolutely correct.

There is no evidence that there was ever at any time a female centric civilization, at least in Europe, Asia or the Americas and evidence of women hunters and warriors doesn’t change that.

Secondly, there is a reason why the Gnostics are just that, Gnostic. They are made up of religious texts that were rejected by the church for various reasons.

[Chiroptera]

Well the guy obviously does have an axe to grind, but I have to say that in that one set of posts, he was absolutely correct.

There is no evidence that there was ever at any time a female centric civilization, at least in Europe, Asia or the Americas and evidence of women hunters and warriors doesn’t change that.

Secondly, there is a reason why the Gnostics are just that, Gnostic. They are made up of religious texts that were rejected by the church for various reasons.

This is correct.

There is evidence to suggest there actually was a true tribe of amazons that were the inspiration for the Greek and Egyptian myths about them, but they weren't ever large enough to be called a civilization. There were plenty of queens through out the ages. But there's not much in the way of a female centric civilization. There were places where they were treated equal, but not places that treated them as the central focus of society.


What we have with these gnostic writings is just an example of ancient Christianity back when they were stomping out pagan worship. They were turning pagan holy days into saint's days, and bastardizing the pagan gods however they could (or in cases like Zeus and Odin, they incorporated the god's look into their own divinity's appearance to appeal to pagans). In Europe and the UK where there was a great deal of celtic influence the mother goddess was a big aspect, so they targeted women as a source of evil to discourage people from following that path anymore.

[cedardryad]

I noticed that he wasn't insane. I mean his posts on that topic did make sense, I never thought of there ever being a women's only society. He at least doesn't have the crazies.

[MartinRedmond]

Some of the native american tribes were matriarcal.

[4PointOh]

Some of the native american tribes were matriarcal.

Some African tribes still are.

[Paul McEnery]

Without even looking at the site, I'm guessing this is a riposte to Rianne Eisler's none-too-fussy-about-the-truth "scholarship". Which has a fair amount of bollocking coming to it.

Does he get around to sticking it to Margaret Mead, too?

[Paul McEnery]

Some African tribes still are.

Clue me!
....

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Some of the native american tribes were matriarcal.

I think some mongolian tribes are as well.

[cedardryad]

Some mongolian tribes even have links to amazonian warriors. I remember posting a link to a show I saw on PBS where a mongolian girl had her DNA tested and they found out she shared DNA with female warriors that they found buried around that area. The females were believed to be Turkish.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Some mongolian tribes even have links to amazonian warriors. I remember posting a link to a show I saw on PBS where a mongolian girl had her DNA tested and they found out she shared DNA with female warriors that they found buried around that area. The females were believed to be Turkish.


I think that was the show I saw, the girl they had tested was blonde haired so they had hopes she was a descendent of that tribe into the mongolians, turned out they were brown haired or something though but by sheer chance they had lucked on to the descendent anyways even though she had blonde hair.

Though I thought the amazon tribe was supposed to be on the russian steppes or something.

[Paul McEnery]

I think that was the show I saw, the girl they had tested was blonde haired so they had hopes she was a descendent of that tribe into the mongolians, turned out they were brown haired or something though but by sheer chance they had lucked on to the descendent anyways even though she had blonde hair.

Though I thought the amazon tribe was supposed to be on the russian steppes or something.

I was just chatting about this to someone outside a coffee shop last week, but all I remember is North of the Mediterranean and south of Gothic territory.

[Corrina]

I've been doing some research on the North American Native American societies and they were definitely matriarchal. It happened somewhat by accident--women were in charge of the agriculture (fertility, earth, all traditionally 'female' pursuits), while the men were in charge of the hunting, which required more strength and speed.

When the women figured out how to plan a growing season thus provide a steady supply of food, the dynamic shifted as the tribes swapped from a hunter/gatherer system to an agricultural one. The women became the ones in charge because they controlled the most important element: food.

In many of these tribes, the women elected the war leaders, and their council was the dominant voice in the tribe.

[rick]

I've been doing some research on the North American Native American societies and they were definitely matriarchal. It happened somewhat by accident--women were in charge of the agriculture (fertility, earth, all traditionally 'female' pursuits), while the men were in charge of the hunting, which required more strength and speed.

When the women figured out how to plan a growing season thus provide a steady supply of food, the dynamic shifted as the tribes swapped from a hunter/gatherer system to an agricultural one. The women became the ones in charge because they controlled the most important element: food.

In many of these tribes, the women elected the war leaders, and their council was the dominant voice in the tribe.


Could you do me a favor and let me know which tribes you are talking about?

[cedardryad]

I think that was the show I saw, the girl they had tested was blonde haired so they had hopes she was a descendent of that tribe into the mongolians, turned out they were brown haired or something though but by sheer chance they had lucked on to the descendent anyways even though she had blonde hair.

Though I thought the amazon tribe was supposed to be on the russian steppes or something.

Yes Russian, I got them mixed up.

[MartinRedmond]

If memory serves, there were 3 major native american tribes feuding over territory which is how they got used and double crossed by settlers. There was Algonquins, Iroquois and Micmacs. One was sedentary and the others nomadic. But anyhow, I can tell you there's been matriarchal societies for sure and not all natives liked each other. I'm surprised they don't teach that in america, I had to learn this in grade school and again in high school.