View Full Version : Ms. Marvel #25 *Spoilers*
mattbib
03-26-2008, 02:48 PM
Hah...loved the old-school pages by Frenz. How fun.
Anyway, the book opens in Carol's past, when she was still head of security for NASA at Cape Canaveral, where she and "Doctor Lawson" (Mar-Vell) are inspecting a piece of technology that just impacted the earth. Mar-Fell recognizes it as a Skrull interplanetary probe. Danvers just thinks it's "stupid space junk" and touches it. And it reads her biological makeup and transmits it back to the Skrull empire and catalogued! Ohs noes!
In the present, Tony Stark shares his suspicion of Carol Danvers being a Skrull with Agent Sum. He has video footage of her walking around Stark Tower at the same time she was on Monster Island with Lightning Storm. Worse...the real Carol has since returned to New York, where the Skrull is, and they've no way of knowing if she's even alive!
At Carol's temporary home, Hotel Conway, she decides to take a personal day and deal with some stuff. But first she's going to check up on the A.I.M. lab she busted below a local laundry. She's surprised to find the laundry reopened, and walks in. All the "customers" pull guns on her and she beats them up. The agents in the laundry alert those below that some package needs to ship immediately. Carol gets to the dock too late and the truck's already gone, so she decides to search for it.
Back in the past, Carol escorts Dr. Lawson aboard the Invincible space shuttle, still in its launchpad. Mar-Vell is looking to see if the Skrulls planted a bomb on it. But Carol is a Skrull! And the Skrull attacks Mar-Vell with the hopes of bringing him back to its empress. On the ground, the real Carol oversees last-minute inspections, as the shuttle is scheduled to launch in an hour. The shuttle starts to shake! It's launching early. The crew runs, except for Carol, who knows that Dr. Lawson was scheduled to inspect the cockpit. She boards the lifting-off shuttle at the last minute and finds the unconscious "doctor." She makes her way into the cockpit and discovers the Skrull and shoots him in the head. Mar-Vell recovers and Carol returns the shuttle to earth. A hero!
In the present, Carol heads over to William Wagner's restaurant to talk to him. He's not there, but a waitress tells Carol that he said something about looking for a house in Westchester. But then he shows up. Carol apologizes for not calling him back. He acts weird and says he has to go and doesn't want to do this anymore, leaving Carol dumbfounded. William calls Carol's publicist, Sarah Day, and tells her that he broke it off with her and she assures him that his secret is safe now.
Then Carol shows up at her office. Sarah scolds her for not informing her about defeating the Puppet Master. Then Carol reminds her that Sarah had called her the other night sounding mad...something abouit the Daily Bugle. Sarah laughs it off, and says that Jameson had a heart attack and not in any position to mess with Carol. Carol's clueless, so Sarah shows her the Bugle cover where Carol's making out with Wonder man. Anyway, Sarah's not mad anymore. Suspicious?
Carol happens to be waling down the street when the missing A.I.M. delivery truck passes by, so she gives chase. She follows it into a base hidden in Corona Park. The truck opens, and there's a Skrull...with Colossus armor, Nightcrawler tail, Wolverine's claws and eyes leaking red energy like Cyclops. He smells Carol and fires an optic blast at her. Carol fights back, but he's strong and fast. He says she smells of Kree, and now that he "has his scent" he can continue his true mission. Then he teleports away. Leaving Carol dumbfounded. It's been days since she was around Mar-Vell, so she suspects that maybe William is Kree.
She calls him (he's with someone) and says she's going to stop by to talk about something superhero-y. Ack! William's already WITH Carol! How can that be??? He tells the Carol on the phone to come over right away. The Carol with William gets mad because he won't tell her who he's talking to. He screams, and the phone goes dead.
Carol arrives at his apartment and finds him dead. Agent Sum bursts in and tells her to put her hands in the air, that human or Skrull the ammo in his gun will take her down.
To be continued...
Then there's a nice little "brief history of Ms. Marvel" page in the back.
A pretty fun read...some surprise twists here and there. Interested in seeing where this goes. Decent art by Melo, but loved the Frenz pages.
CyberCoyote
03-26-2008, 03:53 PM
Sounds like a fun read, won't even mind paying the extra cash to get the cover matching Capt Marvel numero 4.
So.. it was William Wagner that's killed, right? Not Simon Williams?
mattbib
03-26-2008, 03:55 PM
So.. it was William Wagner that's killed, right? Not Simon Williams?
Correct. Simon doesn't appear this issue.
I gotta admit, Ms. Marvel really seems like a more important book now that it's crossing into Secret Invasion. There's a bit more of a "must buy" vibe to it... which is nice.
I sort of wonder why they would choose to impersonate someone that they haven't actually replaced though. Sooner or later someone will realize she's in two places at once... especially someone as high profile as Ms. Marvel is these days. That's basially asking to be exposed.
Shyft
03-26-2008, 04:27 PM
I gotta admit, Ms. Marvel really seems like a more important book now that it's crossing into Secret Invasion. There's a bit more of a "must buy" vibe to it... which is nice.
I sort of wonder why they would choose to impersonate someone that they haven't actually replaced though. Sooner or later someone will realize she's in two places at once... especially someone as high profile as Ms. Marvel is these days. That's basially asking to be exposed.
Maybe its because the meat of the invasion, the actual take over "event" is about to happen, so now creating the confusion and fear is required.
Monty_Cristo
03-26-2008, 04:33 PM
man, now we'll never know what Wagner's secret was.
CMBMOOL
03-26-2008, 05:12 PM
Hold it, does anyone notices this is the 1st issue to mention the BND changes that is going on in Amazing Spider-man. :mad:
Dr. Chaos
03-26-2008, 06:34 PM
Hold it, does anyone notices this is the 1st issue to mention the BND changes that is going on in Amazing Spider-man. :mad:
And why do you sound so surprised? The occasional world continuity is nice, especially when it's referencing one of my current favorite Marvel titles on the market. :)
I'm glad I picked this up again starting with #25, Reed is a guy that is constantly improving and the new artist is perfect, Ms. Marvel's artwork has traditionally never really clicked with me.
Keep Melo on this book as long as possible.
man, now we'll never know what Wagner's secret was.
He eats Krees.
Marvel Boy was probably sitting in his basement missing an arm and a leg...the sick bastard.
CMBMOOL
03-26-2008, 06:48 PM
And why do you sound so surprised? The occasional world continuity is nice, especially when it's referencing one of my current favorite Marvel titles on the market. :)
I'm surprised because I'm not really a fan of Amazing Spider-man right now. :mad:
Dr. Chaos
03-26-2008, 06:53 PM
Oh well.
The Marvel universe isn't going to pretend Amazing isn't a relevant title at times in instances such as this, it's going to keep spinning along with it.
stingerman
03-26-2008, 06:58 PM
Pretty good issue. I actually liked it. So Wagner was a Kree or something I take it? Captain Atlas? I haven't been reading this for some time. Is the variant cover Mar-vel or a different Kree- Captain Atlas?
Real good issue, Sal Buscema on inks for the Frenz art! That is so awesome.
And the new artist is awesome. Her faces are perfect. When I notice the faces of an artist, that's good stuff. Looks like this SS will be going after Captain Marvel.
Rollo_Tomasi
03-26-2008, 09:15 PM
Adriana Melo's art in this issue was amazing.
IronStarks
03-26-2008, 10:14 PM
acctually might pick up this title
jackolover
03-27-2008, 12:01 AM
Nothing really happened in all that time sequence from when Tony told Sum to arrest Carol in issue #24. The only thing that did happen is we learn that the Skrulls created a skrull of Carol Danvers with no powers for all I can figure. They did it from a fingure print of when she touched some glass, and that was before she had powers. Do the Skrulls know their Carol and Ms Marvel are the same thing? And after the $US3.99 price tag, Ms Marvel still doesn't know she is a suspected Skrull, when Sum tells her to put her hands up.
And surprisingly, this book is tied into Captain Marvel, as the X-Skrull goes hunting for Cap, and Carol is appearing in that book, too, like they are cross-pollinating.
SeritoNiN
03-27-2008, 09:22 AM
She was shocked to see a skrull....didn't understand that, since she already knows about the invasion in the captain marvel mini.
Inconsistent writing.
I'm sure Marvel will cover it up with a "this story takes place before that one, that one and that one, but after this one, this one and this one"
God forbid they just ship books accordingly.
I like the new artist, and this issue was definately better than the last few.
I hope Brian Reed does his research. During The Kree-Skrull War in The Avengers #89-97, Carol Danvers plays a supporting character, but, more importantly, the Super Skrull mimics Carol Danvers later in the storyline; however, Mar-Vell knows something is wrong since Danvers, at this point, did not know Captain Marvel's Kree name, Mar-Vell. The Super Skrull quickly reveals himself once his cover is blown.
Monty_Cristo
03-27-2008, 02:02 PM
I hope Brian Reed does his research. During The Kree-Skrull War in The Avengers #89-97, Carol Danvers plays a supporting character, but, more importantly, the Super Skrull mimics Carol Danvers later in the storyline; however, Mar-Vell knows something is wrong since Danvers, at this point, did not know Captain Marvel's Kree name, Mar-Vell. The Super Skrull quickly reveals himself once his cover is blown.
neat but how would that come into play, in this current storyline? :confused:
She was shocked to see a skrull....didn't understand that, since she already knows about the invasion in the captain marvel mini.
Inconsistent writing.
I'm sure Marvel will cover it up with a "this story takes place before that one, that one and that one, but after this one, this one and this one"
God forbid they just ship books accordingly.
i blame Bendis
DMike
03-27-2008, 05:23 PM
I hope Brian Reed does his research. During The Kree-Skrull War in The Avengers #89-97, Carol Danvers plays a supporting character, but, more importantly, the Super Skrull mimics Carol Danvers later in the storyline; however, Mar-Vell knows something is wrong since Danvers, at this point, did not know Captain Marvel's Kree name, Mar-Vell. The Super Skrull quickly reveals himself once his cover is blown.
neat but how would that come into play, in this current storyline?
Considering the fact that Kl'rt has no part in this storyline or Secret Invasion and the fact that Secret Invasion doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Kree-Skrull war, it probably has absolutely nothing relevant to do with anything.
On another note, somehow I don't think we've seen the last of William Wagner. Way too convenient.
Dr. Chaos
03-27-2008, 05:41 PM
I think we have, persoanlly.
Just because he's dead doesn't mean his secret can't still be relevant or expanded on.
CaptainCanada
03-27-2008, 06:03 PM
I hope Brian Reed does his research. During The Kree-Skrull War in The Avengers #89-97, Carol Danvers plays a supporting character, but, more importantly, the Super Skrull mimics Carol Danvers later in the storyline; however, Mar-Vell knows something is wrong since Danvers, at this point, did not know Captain Marvel's Kree name, Mar-Vell. The Super Skrull quickly reveals himself once his cover is blown.
What does that have to do with anything?
What does that have to do with anything?
Skrulls are mimicking heroes all over the Earth. The Super Skrull impersonated the human Carol Danvers. Carol Danvers became Ms. Marvel. Ms. Marvel fought the Super Skrull in Marvel Team-Up #61-62 with Spider-Man...
The Skrulls might retain an interest in Carol Danvers since she became Ms. Marvel as this storyline shows...
Despite the references to early Captain Marvel, I hope Brian Reed delves deeper than appearing to be showing more about Carol's history than he does; it may just be an illusion of continuity. Carol Danvers plays an important supporting in The Kree-Skrull War; otherwise, the Super Skrull would have never impersonated her in the first place.
CaptainCanada
03-27-2008, 07:02 PM
I'm sure Marvel will cover it up with a "this story takes place before that one, that one and that one, but after this one, this one and this one"
God forbid they just ship books accordingly.
With arc storytelling, that's often not possible.
Really, it requires a fairly minimal amount of understanding that one takes place at a different time than the other.
Mark_S
03-28-2008, 06:02 AM
If she's going to get really beat up or hurt in the next issue I might pick it up.
Mark_S
CMBMOOL
03-28-2008, 09:31 AM
If she's going to get really beat up or hurt in the next issue I might pick it up.
Mark_S
I second that, if Reed can provide a good MS. Marvel smack down in order for Carol to try to be a better hero and stay alive to prove her innocent, then I may start be interested in this title again. :p
Ms. Marvel #25 is a great improvement overall with the whole series; however, I am still skeptical Brian Reed with retain this consistency to put in each issue considering he's been either hot or cold depending on the arc. I enjoyed the flashback aspect with Carol Danvers & Captain Marvel when she was a supporting character in Captain Marvel.
I am still confused about Carol's boyfriend. Is he dead? I'm not sure.
The art from Ardriana Melo is fantastic! I hope she stays on the book for some time.
The Power Skrull makes for a good Ms. Marvel villain; however, I would like to see Super Skrull return to form as well, although he's supposedly dead...
Why is the Power Skrull working with A.I.M.? Or is this branch of A.I.M. more Skrulls???
Steven Wacker could have used an editorial note to Amazing Spider-Man when Carol's publicist noted J. Jonah Jameson had a heart attack. More editorial notes please.
7/10
Mikl C
03-28-2008, 05:07 PM
Hey GOOD issue. This title seems to thrive on crossover expansion, like it did with Civil War.
Hey GOOD issue. This title seems to thrive on crossover expansion, like it did with Civil War.
Ms. Marvel should not be dependent on crossovers to be the inspiration for better stories; if this is the case, Ms. Marvel has severe problems not being addressed currently.
Secret Identity
03-29-2008, 12:20 AM
I too took notice of the BND reference. I was a bit bummed because I figured that BND was taking place a few months in the future (I have no idea why I was thinking this though).
What is everyone's take on the back in time sequences/flash back sequences being done in the old fashioned art? MA 10 used this technique also. I think I like it, at least in concept, I thought it looked better in MA though.
Ullar
03-31-2008, 01:49 PM
Good issue but it seems Ms. Marvel is at its best during crossovers. I think Carol was surprised that A.I.M had a Skrull not that their was a Skrull. This is the same Skrull from Illuminati #5 right?
Good issue but it seems Ms. Marvel is at its best during crossovers. I think Carol was surprised that A.I.M had a Skrull not that their was a Skrull. This is the same Skrull from Illuminati #5 right?
He's the Power Skrull. He first appeared in Fantastic Four #358; he's the counterpart to the Super Skrull in many ways:
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/30929984076.358.GIF
Like the Super Skrull has be artificially enhanced with the powers of the Fantastic Four, the Power Skrull has been artificially enhanced with the powers of the X-Men (Colossus, Iceman, & Storm).
This Power Skrull possesses a different set of X-Men's powers such as Cyclops' optic blast, Colossus organic steel, & Nightcrawler's teleportation powers though.
Mark_S
03-31-2008, 04:23 PM
He's the Power Skrull. He first appeared in Fantastic Four #358; he's the counterpart to the Super Skrull in many ways:
Like the Super Skrull has be artificially enhanced with the powers of the Fantastic Four, the Power Skrull has been artificially enhanced with the powers of the X-Men (Colossus, Iceman, & Storm).
This Power Skrull possesses a different set of X-Men's powers such as Cyclops' optic blast, Colossus organic steel, & Nightcrawler's teleportation powers though.
The skrulls aren't an orginal bunch are they. More like theives than warriors.
Mark_S
The skrulls aren't an orginal bunch are they. More like theives than warriors.
Mark_S
The Skrulls stopped being an innovative race ages ago; in fact, the Skrulls only became a space-faring race when they stole a Kree spaceship..!
just got mine yesterday! This was a fun, sexy little issue, loved it! :D
Schuimend Mormel
04-04-2008, 04:47 AM
I'm mad enjoying Ms. Marvel's solo book. I share the enthusiasm about Adriana Melo's art. I was a bit disappointed when I heard Aaron Lopresti was leaving the book, but Melo's art turns out to be all the consolation I need.
The 'retro' pages were nice, though sometimes a bit campy in both the writing and art. But I liked the wild colours and the exposition in the narration boxes ('DNA = deoxyribonucleic acid', lol).
I hope William Wagner isn't really dead. It wouldn't be the first time Carol has a bf who got killed by a doppelganger of hers (Mike Barnett by Mystique). I felt this was something of a homage to that story (I wouldn't say plagiarism).
The suspense of the mystery surrounding the identity of Wagner and Sarah Day's creepy connection to him is killing me, I love it. Two thumbs up.
The Confessor
04-04-2008, 10:38 AM
He's the Power Skrull. He first appeared in Fantastic Four #358; he's the counterpart to the Super Skrull in many ways:
So, does anyone know if this Power Skrull was the same Skrull that appeared in New Avengers #39 attacking Echo and Wolverine? Because that Skrull had a lot of X-Men style powers.
Dermie
04-05-2008, 02:36 PM
He's the Power Skrull. He first appeared in Fantastic Four #358.
No, he isn't. The Power Skrull is Paibok. The Skrull in MS MARVEL #25 is Rl'nnd. Different Skrulls, with different powers.
No, he isn't. The Power Skrull is Paibok. The Skrull in MS MARVEL #25 is Rl'nnd. Different Skrulls, with different powers.
Thanks to Bendis, the Skrulls will have whole armies of Super Skrulls & Power Skrulls. Nevermind, he's skipping comic book logic again to have his pet story. :rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:
Thanks to Bendis, the Skrulls will have whole armies of Super Skrulls & Power Skrulls. Nevermind, he's skipping comic book logic again to have his pet story. :rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:
It's not a huge leap in comic book logic though. Once the Skrulls made 2 super powered skrulls, it was almost inevitable they would make more.
Since that X skrull has been used a lot, it's possible that there really aren't a lot of them.
DeadXMan
04-05-2008, 05:18 PM
and not to mention they have a super skrull in training in runaways.
and mutant skrulls.
so a legion of superpower skrulls are not that far fetch
Tobias Drake
04-05-2008, 05:46 PM
It's not a huge leap in comic book logic though. Once the Skrulls made 2 super powered skrulls, it was almost inevitable they would make more.
Since that X skrull has been used a lot, it's possible that there really aren't a lot of them.
I agree. It's only in comic book science that, having created something once, it can never be created again. They made a successful Super-Skrull in Kl'rt a long time ago. The mind boggles at why they haven't made thousands by now. They have a working, successful trial run. Why hasn't it been mass produced?
Mark_S
04-05-2008, 05:50 PM
I agree. It's only in comic book science that, having created something once, it can never be created again. They made a successful Super-Skrull in Kl'rt a long time ago. The mind boggles at why they haven't made thousands by now. They have a working, successful trial run. Why hasn't it been mass produced?
Perhaps it was becuase he had just the right type of genetic structure to handle the process. Or maybe something happened to the scientist. After all once the man who created the super soldier serum was killed it took a long time for someone to recreate it, and for that time we only had one Captain America.
Mark_S
Tobias Drake
04-05-2008, 05:51 PM
Perhaps it was becuase he had just the right type of genetic structure to handle the process. Or maybe something happened to the scientist. After all once the man who created the super soldier serum was killed it took a long time for someone to recreate it, and for that time we only had one Captain America.
Mark_S
Haven't there been, like, four Captain Americas? Not counting Bucky? If I recall correctly, wasn't Steve actually the second?
sschroeder
04-05-2008, 06:21 PM
Perhaps it was becuase he had just the right type of genetic structure to handle the process. Or maybe something happened to the scientist. After all once the man who created the super soldier serum was killed it took a long time for someone to recreate it, and for that time we only had one Captain America.
I think that was his point. This only happens in the comics. If the serum existed in the real world 1940's, and was lost, I think we would have found it again. Just shear extra numbers of people and computers working on it over time would make it pretty likely.
As for Ms. Marvel # 25, I was really happy to see the new art team up to the task. Here's to plenty more issues in the future!
Mark_S
04-05-2008, 07:13 PM
Haven't there been, like, four Captain Americas? Not counting Bucky? If I recall correctly, wasn't Steve actually the second?
No, not just the costume, but the super soldier serum that turned Steve into the man in the costume. Though a later poster has a point, if you have enough people working on it a problem can be solved.
Maybe we'll get lucky and the reason for so few super skrulls will actually be revealed during this series.
Mark_S
DeadXMan
04-05-2008, 07:52 PM
Steve is still the first cap. Isaiah got a prototype verstion of the rebuilt SSF one year after Steve did.
Plus there was no vitita-rays to cotrol the effects, which is why Isaiah squad, the commie smasher cap, Nomad and prototype went insane.
Isaiah is the only one that hasn't
from wiki
Clarifying the timeline for Isaiah Bradley and Steve Rogers - and who predates who - Robert Morales states in his appendix to the Truth: Red, White & Black trade paperback collection (2004):
“Truth was originally planned to be outside of the Marvel Universe’s official continuity. The editorial decision to place it into continuity meant explaining Timely Comics’ first publication of Joe Simon and Jack Kirby’s Captain America in 1940 – a full year before Pearl Harbor and the true start of our story.”
Truth co-creator Kyle Baker further clarified the respective timelines of Bradley and Rogers in an interview:
"With Captain America, people get on my case for ‘changing’ Captain America. We got a lot of grief from the Captain America fans on that series until the fifth and sixth issues came out; when it turned out that we hadn’t tinkered with the continuity. Before that, everybody was very upset, because our story started with Pearl Harbor, and everybody knows that the first issue of Captain America took place before Pearl. Somewhere in the middle of the series, it's revealed that Cap already existed, and we hadn’t tinkered with the timeline, and suddenly, the book is okay.”[1]
Dermie
04-06-2008, 10:16 AM
Thanks to Bendis, the Skrulls will have whole armies of Super Skrulls & Power Skrulls. Nevermind, he's skipping comic book logic again to have his pet story. :rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:
Actually, it was Brian Vaughn, over in RUNAWAYS, who established that there are multiple Super-Skrulls, with a Super-Skrull training program. Bendis is just picking up on what has already been established, and extending the logic that if the Skrulls have already created super-powered warriors, it makes sense that they would continue to do so.
Anyway, my point is that the Skrull shown in MS MARVEL #25 is not the same Skrull who made his debut in FF #358, which was what was claimed in a previoius post.
Actually, it was Brian Vaughn, over in RUNAWAYS, who established that there are multiple Super-Skrulls, with a Super-Skrull training program. Bendis is just picking up on what has already been established, and extending the logic that if the Skrulls have already created super-powered warriors, it makes sense that they would continue to do so.
Anyway, my point is that the Skrull shown in MS MARVEL #25 is not the same Skrull who made his debut in FF #358, which was what was claimed in a previoius post.
It still does not change the fact that the Power Skrull & Super Skrull are now no longer unique even among Skrulls; they were chosen to be champions of the Skrull Empire for a particular reason. Now there's countless hordes of Super Skrulls & Power Skrulls...so what's the point of having them as characters?
It still does not change the fact that the Power Skrull & Super Skrull are now no longer unique even among Skrulls; they were chosen to be champions of the Skrull Empire for a particular reason. Now there's countless hordes of Super Skrulls & Power Skrulls...so what's the point of having them as characters?
I'm not sure you could ever label Paibok as unique... but certainly Super Skrull was and always will be. He's the Captain America for the skrulls, regardless of how many super skrulls they make after him.
He's a developed character with a long establishied history... that's something the hordes of super skrulls that come after him don't have and likely never will. The point is that he's not just some random super skrull... he's THE Super Skrull that we read growing up as kids. Nothing can change that. The rest are just a bunch of red shirts (though they may and probably should develop a few of them).
Dermie
04-06-2008, 03:36 PM
It still does not change the fact that the Power Skrull & Super Skrull are now no longer unique even among Skrulls; they were chosen to be champions of the Skrull Empire for a particular reason. Now there's countless hordes of Super Skrulls & Power Skrulls...so what's the point of having them as characters?
What's the point of having Hank Pym as a character, since there are now several other Ant-Men, Goliaths and Giant-Men?
The existence of new Skrulls with super-powers doesn't negate the previous characters. As XPac already said, it is the *character* of Kl'rt (and Paibok) that makes them unique and important.
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