Avengers #39 *Spoilers*

[mattbib]

Okay...this was fun.

It's late, and Maya and Logan have a quick talk. Maya isn't convinced of the impending Skrull invasion. She goes out in search of Daredevil.

Daredevil finds her. She asks why he sent Captain America after her, and he stumbles. Maya asks who he really is. And he turns into...Echo! And fires an optic-blast at her. A battle ensues. Maya's attacker reiterates how much he admires her. And, just as he's about to fry her with Firestar or Human Torch-like flames, Wolverine attacks from above!

He skewers the Skrull, but the Skrull obliterates Wolverine with another optic blast, saying they don't even know what it is they're fighting for. The Skrull then teleports, like Nightcralwer, behind Maya and attacks her again, but Maya fights. Then Wolverine recovers, and the two are about to take the Skrull out when it flies away in a trail of fire.

As he recovers, Wolverine explains why he followed her, and why he knew the Skrulls would try to take her first in order to infiltrate the New Avengers.

Back at their penthouse, Clint and Maya talk. Maya's unsure of her place on the team, and that they're even Avengers. Clint reminds her of when he joined the Avengers and people said the same thing, but now many consider that to be the team's glory days. The two flirt...then they kiss.

Cut to a bedroom. Clint's sleeping and Maya wakes up next to him. She gets up, and...it gets somewhat confusing; open to interpretation I guess.

She might be covering her face with her hand, obscuring her view of Clint.

Or maybe she's blocking a camera lense or something?

Or maybe she actually IS a Skrull, and that entire fight was a ruse to convince Wolverine otherwise, and she's taking out Clint.

More questions than answers here, folks.

I did like the art, though some of the choreography was sloppy. And again, that last page...hard to exactly make out what happened.

[bjtrdff]

Nice, thanks for the review/summary, I've been waiting all day.

Although, by all rights, Echo should have been melted by an X-skrull.

[Red Lotus]

I thought the end was that she is a Skrull or that was the hand of Skrull about to grab her. But like you said it was so wide open you cant tell.

[ShaggyB]

good review, question: Maya, before she covers her face does clint move or say something?

[Red Lotus]

good review, question: Maya, before she covers her face does clint move or say something?

No he's sleep.

[ShaggyB]

cant wait to see the page, sounds like shes a skrull or a skrull whom is already on the team gets her......

[drwho]

This issue impressed me this month. Even made echo likable. Looks like bendis brought his a game on this issue and his f game on the mighty avengers issue.

[timbox]

She was covering her face at the beginning of the issue too. Peeking at herself in the mirror. Not sure what that was about.

Great issue though, +1 interested in Secret Invasion after this run-in with the skrull.

[protogarrett]

Clint's Upcomming One-Shot:
"I Boned a Skrull"

[Yaw]

Cut to a bedroom. Clint's sleeping and Maya wakes up next to him. She gets up, and...it gets somewhat confusing; open to interpretation I guess.

She might be covering her face with her hand, obscuring her view of Clint.

Or maybe she's blocking a camera lense or something?

Or maybe she actually IS a Skrull, and that entire fight was a ruse to convince Wolverine otherwise, and she's taking out Clint.

More questions than answers here, folks.

maybe someone said it already but the hand thing goes back to the mark that she wears on her face. When her father was dying he put his bloodied hand over her face, which is why she wears that face paint. Her doing that proves that she really isn't a Skrull.

[Yaw]

For hand reference:
Daredevil v2. #10

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/6996/daredevilv201017mq7.jpg

[timbox]

maybe someone said it already but the hand thing goes back to the mark that she wears on her face. When her father was dying he put his bloodied hand over her face, which is why she wears that face paint. Her doing that proves that she really isn't a Skrull.

That makes sense, thanks for the info.

[mattbib]

maybe someone said it already but the hand thing goes back to the mark that she wears on her face. When her father was dying he put his bloodied hand over her face, which is why she wears that face paint. Her doing that proves that she really isn't a Skrull.
Ahhh...good catch. Totally went over my head. That explains it.

[worstblogever]

Yeah, the hand thing was her whole origin thing...

Simple issue to focus on Maya, give her some interaction with Wolverine (although they never do explain what their past is) and give her some future with Clint.

Is it just me, or does it look like they're just going to do character profile issues during Secret Invasion on this book like they did for "Civil War" where they just follow a team member around? Nick Fury has one coming up, too.

[Don Quixote]

Is it just me, or does it look like they're just going to do character profile issues during Secret Invasion on this book like they did for "Civil War" where they just follow a team member around? Nick Fury has one coming up, too.

Looks like it, but I guess the issues will tantalise us with the question of whether the character is a Skrull. Hell, Fury could be a Skrull, and his big return a massive misdirection.

I've not read this yet, but hopefully it will go some way to convincing me that Echo is a worthwhile character.

[Yaw]

Yeah, the hand thing was her whole origin thing...

Simple issue to focus on Maya, give her some interaction with Wolverine (although they never do explain what their past is) and give her some future with Clint.

Is it just me, or does it look like they're just going to do character profile issues during Secret Invasion on this book like they did for "Civil War" where they just follow a team member around? Nick Fury has one coming up, too.

there was like a long arc in Wolverine that was written and drawn by David Mack in Daredevil. I think it was suppose to be a miniseries first but it was put there to give Bendis and Maleev a break. At any rate she goes on to the reservation she live at as a child then goes on a visionquest in the wilderness. While in the wilderness she meets up with Wolverine and he helps her on her visionquest.

[desanth]

Great issue. I don't think Echo is a skrull, otherwise why would she have resisted Elektra? Only purpose of that would be to bring the New Avengers to Japan, but why there? And it ended up with Echo killing skrull Elektra, right? Naww, don't think she's a skrull, so check her off the list. Same with Spiderwoman, she took a skrull body to Stark, why do that if you are a skrull?

[bjtrdff]

The switch could have been after Japan...


And in all fairness regarding Spider-Woman, if you were a hidden skrull, and in that situation, it's not necessarily out of the question that you would, on the fly, improvise and bring the body to Stark. It accomplishes a lot of things, like spreading distrust, turmoil, infiltrating the sanctioned avengers team. etc;.

And realistically, a skrull could probably assume from that point on that Stark and co. would find out eventually, and that turning it into any sort of advantage at all would be beneficial.

[XPac]

Wow... I'm really glad I read this thread. The hand thing confused me, and I personally didn't want to believe it meant she was a skrull ... but now it makes sense.

Also, Bendis really needed to do this issue. Echo seemed so out of place on the team. I wondered why the heck she was on the team for a while. But I have a better understanding of her character... he made her more relatable. Which is cool.

It's kinda interesting how in her own way Echo did a better job skrull hunting than Tony has so far. Granted she was far too underpowered to actually stop the Skrull... but she shot and scored on her first try.

[bjtrdff]

Upon reading, I don't think Echo is a Skrull. I think the hand thing is just supposed to tie back to the start of the issue (father dying, difficult times, etc;).

But who knows. I know a MA member is a skrull, but has Bendis said whether or not anyone in the NA is?

[XPac]

Upon reading, I don't think Echo is a Skrull. I think the hand thing is just supposed to tie back to the start of the issue (father dying, difficult times, etc;).

But who knows. I know a MA member is a skrull, but has Bendis said whether or not anyone in the NA is?

The fact that the skrulls in this issue were trying to put a Skrull on the team could hint that there's not one on the team already (or perhaps lost a spy after the baby left them). Though I definately think there's multiple skrulls living in Stark Tower so who knows.

[Dr. Chaos]

Damn, that X-Men skrull(s) really gets around, doesn't he?

Glad to see this issue ended with Hawkeye and Echo (cue inevitable SI relationship mistrust issues), I was rooting for those crazy kids.

The way Wolvie seemed to be getting closer to Maya, Logan better learn to stay the hell away from Hawkeye's women.

[XPac]

Damn, that X-Men skrull(s) really gets around, doesn't he?

Glad to see this issue ended with Hawkeye and Echo (cue inevitable SI relationship mistrust issues), I was rooting for those crazy kids.

The way Wolvie seemed to be getting closer to Maya, Logan better learn to stay the hell away from Hawkeye's women.

Yeah... what's up with the X skrull? He's either all over the place, or he's a very popular model of skrull. The Avengers model gets no love.

Though Logan obviously indicated that there was something between them once, I think Logan is doing the protective father thing more than anything else. The same way he does with Kitty Pryde and Jubilee... I think he needs some female around he can be overly protective of.

[Dr. Chaos]

And on a sidenote: I like that the skrull stayed in disguise the entire time.

It's a much more creepy visual than just skrulling out.

[XPac]

And on a sidenote: I like that the skrull stayed in disguise the entire time.

It's a much more creepy visual than just skrulling out.

Yeah. The thing that I didn't like about an earlier issue of Captain Mar-Vell was that they revealed themselve WAY too easily.

[SnakeEater]

i noticed in the secret invasion book that was free in comicstores - they never mentioned how wolverine was once taken by the skrulls who were working with apocalypse. was this really that bad a time period in marlves eyes that they wont reference it or was it forgotten? is it even important?

[Omega Alpha]

The fact that the skrulls in this issue were trying to put a Skrull on the team could hint that there's not one on the team already (or perhaps lost a spy after the baby left them). Though I definately think there's multiple skrulls living in Stark Tower so who knows.

Bendis has established very clearly that there are no Skrulls on the team, and more than once. This is just further proof.

[Pyro]

This was a pretty interesting issue. I loved the way the skrull slipped up when it was pretending to be Daredevil. The fight with the skrull was pretty cool. It was good to see Echo and Clint finally get together. I think it's kind of funny how often a first kiss leads to sex in comic books... I mean, do any superheroes date before getting in bed together?

The art felt really uneven and pedestrian in this issue. Probably due to all the swiping and cutting and pasting... The first page really bugs me because A.) Echo looks way different than she looks anywhere else in the issue and B.) the reflection in the mirror is all wrong. I also wasn't fond of the layouts. The way he arranged the panels left a lot of empty space on the page.

[DeadXMan]

i noticed in the secret invasion book that was free in comicstores - they never mentioned how wolverine was once taken by the skrulls who were working with apocalypse. was this really that bad a time period in marlves eyes that they wont reference it or was it forgotten? is it even important?

yeah Logan as death was part of the twevle debackle/ death of cyclops(no way connected to the current mini)
but the mention it in the cards

[ReaderX]

That particular skrull musta been the weakest of their kind. He was able to emulate Logan's looks, but not his power, as it only took a single slice from that gargantuan Gilgamesh sword to kill it. The Twelve wasn't exactly a great storyline and it seemed somewhat ripped from X-Men:TAS. The only reason you'd notice the story even happened is because it gave Logan his adamantium skeleton back after the long period that his bones were actually bone.

[StoneGold]

I love how absolutely horribly Bendis wrote Daredevil. I mean, just miserable. So ridiculously bad, it actually threw me for a second. Obviously on purpose, as he was a Skrull, but ye gods, that was off voice.

[worstblogever]

I love how absolutely horribly Bendis wrote Daredevil. I mean, just miserable. So ridiculously bad, it actually threw me for a second. Obviously on purpose, as he was a Skrull, but ye gods, that was off voice.

Agreed. That Skrull probably didn't do their homework on DD, and probably was meant to know tons about Echo, who they were going to be replacing, and going into the lion's den as.

[Lombardo!]

man, after reading this and Ms. Marvel...
Kl'rt, the original Super-Skrull, is SERIOUSLY obsolete nowadays.

these suckers are Super-Duper-Skrulls


meantime, i enjoyed the Echo issue, though the Hawkeye bit at the end was a tad forced. coulda used a little more tact though

still, the art was okay (some strange use of panels though...), and the fight scene was written very well, though i dont see why Wolverine must have ties to every single person at any given time in the Marvel Universe.

i liked "Eye's open! She 'ported! ... (she can't hear me) ..."
very cool

[theardri]

She was covering her face at the beginning of the issue too. Peeking at herself in the mirror. Not sure what that was about.

Great issue though, +1 interested in Secret Invasion after this run-in with the skrull.

Well remember she has the whole "hand print on the face" thing going on for whatever reason. Perhaps she is heading out again to look for Mat, Skrulls, or it's the other theories people have put foward here.

[Mr. Earl Brooks]

I love how absolutely horribly Bendis wrote Daredevil. I mean, just miserable. So ridiculously bad, it actually threw me for a second. Obviously on purpose, as he was a Skrull, but ye gods, that was off voice.

I particularly enjoyed the bit about Daredevil commenting on Echo's appearance. "I mean look at you..."

That's not just a Skrull who didn't do his homework, that is an absolutely retarded skrull.

[SeritoNiN]

Some of you guys like the most simplistic writing, I thought this issue was terrible, matter of fact, I've become very disappointed in the build-up since illuminati # 5.

This book had about 8 words in it total, it served little purpose...such a typical Bendis filler book.

I was really hyped up for the secret invasion until lately, they're dragging it out, just to lead-in. I mean Stark found out about the skrulls back in November and he's since been sitting with a thumb up his ass. :rolleyes:

[SnakeEater]

Some of you guys like the most simplistic writing, I thought this issue was terrible, matter of fact, I've become very disappointed in the build-up since illuminati # 5.

This book had about 8 words in it total, it served little purpose...such a typical Bendis filler book.

I was really hyped up for the secret invasion until lately, they're dragging it out, just to lead-in. I mean Stark found out about the skrulls back in November and he's since been sitting with a thumb up his ass. :rolleyes:

lol. when civil war was starting up the only time I (MYSELF) heard about registration was in the spidey comics leading up to civil war then BAM. now this skrulls thing is upon us and its like UGGGH WHYS IT TAKING FOREVER?
and 8 issues by bendis for this series? i like some of his work (new avengers reads too fast and to stretched in my opinion) and some of it is really good (mighty avengers so far has been great, ultimate spiderman suffers from YAY to ugh filler to YAY to ... to YAY/FILLER)
im looking forward to secret invasion but just worried about how far they are taking this. its 8 months long and if you look at half the checklist its already got about 50 books involved...sigh

[Will.S]

I particularly enjoyed the bit about Daredevil commenting on Echo's appearance. "I mean look at you..."

That's not just a Skrull who didn't do his homework, that is an absolutely retarded skrull.
That's what I've been saying regarding some of the skrulls disguised as villains, not all of them are going to be awesome at infiltration or they'll slip up at some point.

im looking forward to secret invasion but just worried about how far they are taking this. its 8 months long and if you look at half the checklist its already got about 50 books involved...sigh
I dislike seeing a checklist full of tie-ins as well but you also have to take into account that a good deal of them are separate from their own books as not to interfere with the creative team's flow (New Thunderbolts, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man). Just pick up what you usually do or whatever you're interested in. You should never feel obligated to buy a tie-in just because it's part of an event. You can always get it somewhere down the line either in trades or back issues.

[Jack]

I particularly enjoyed the bit about Daredevil commenting on Echo's appearance. "I mean look at you..."

That's not just a Skrull who didn't do his homework, that is an absolutely retarded skrull.
Why would a Skrull who wasn't trained to impersonate Daredevil necessarily know that he's blind? When Matt was outed as Daredevil, people didn't ask if Daredevil was blind, they asked if Matt could see, because it doesn't really make sense for a blind guy to be a superhero.

Although it does mean we can be pretty sure that Daredevil isn't a Skrull, or that knowledge would have been known to X-Echo.

[StoneGold]

I particularly enjoyed the bit about Daredevil commenting on Echo's appearance. "I mean look at you..."

That's not just a Skrull who didn't do his homework, that is an absolutely retarded skrull.

And let's be honest hear, the poorly-written Skrull was a writing device. The Skrull was going to be revealed in a page anyway. So if you're going to out the Skrull immediately, best to let them be kind of obvious for maximum impact.

[XPac]

This X-Skrull is popping up all over the place. Assuming it's the same skrull, I think this guy comes off more as a warrior than as one of their top intell guys. I don't think he's spent too much time preparing himself for the role as he clearly has a million other little jobs to do.

Since he vastly outpowered Echo, I think he only needed to fool her long enough to lure her out and get close.

[Yaw]

Some of you guys like the most simplistic writing, I thought this issue was terrible, matter of fact, I've become very disappointed in the build-up since illuminati # 5.

This book had about 8 words in it total, it served little purpose...such a typical Bendis filler book.

I was really hyped up for the secret invasion until lately, they're dragging it out, just to lead-in. I mean Stark found out about the skrulls back in November and he's since been sitting with a thumb up his ass. :rolleyes:


yes because since the reveal of the Skrulls to Stark months have passed in the comics. :p Lead-in is just fine. Why do I have the feeling that if I went through you post history it would be nothing but negative replies and criticism?:rolleyes:

[MrPalen]

Just to clarify the Maya hand shadow thing from the last page a bit more... All that's happening is she's covering her eyes/face with her hand. In the third panel you see Clint and Maya, with Maya looking towards Clint with her fingers resting on her face. The next panel switches to Maya's point-of-view as evidenced by the angle of Clint, and we see the silhouette of her fingers over her eyes. It is a bit hard to figure out immediately, but that's all that's going on. It's symmetrical with the first page of the issue where her fingers gradually come away from her eyes as we see her in the mirror from her own point-of-view.

Whether this imagery is meant to suggest anything or is just a sort of poetic presentation choice is up for debate I suppose, but I believe it's the latter. It's a way I think to highlight Maya's existence in a world without sound by focusing so much on the visual.

[bjtrdff]

^^That's exactly my take. I don't think she's a skrull.

[XPac]

Yeah... though it's perhaps a bit naive of me to think this at this point, I think the NA at this point may be skrull free.

It's the MA I'm worried about. Jarvis, Black Widow, Wonder Man, maybe Spider-Woman, Ms. Marvel at least a part of the time... at times I wonder if the Skrulls outnumber the humans on that team.

[Tobias Drake]

man, after reading this and Ms. Marvel...
Kl'rt, the original Super-Skrull, is SERIOUSLY obsolete nowadays.

these suckers are Super-Duper-Skrulls

Eh, I'm not completely sold on how dangerous they are just yet. This one couldn't even kill Echo, and she's pretty much "DareDevil with eyes". Kl'rt was battling the Fantastic Four on a regular basis. I get that they have neat powers, but this one, in particular, had an emphatically poor showing and lost to a single mutant and a deaf swordswoman despite all its powers. I'm just hoping this is the wuss of the army; if they're all this weak, Stark's going to have them mopped up before the first day of the invasion is even over.

[Shyft]

Yeah... though it's perhaps a bit naive of me to think this at this point, I think the NA at this point may be skrull free.

It's the MA I'm worried about. Jarvis, Black Widow, Wonder Man, maybe Spider-Woman, Ms. Marvel at least a part of the time... at times I wonder if the Skrulls outnumber the humans on that team.

An easy way to fix it would be for the Sentry to kill all of them, see which ones bodies turn skrully, then resurrect those that dont. Simple, and im sure killing and then bringing back his entire team wouldn't mess with his head at all.

[StoneGold]

Eh, I'm not completely sold on how dangerous they are just yet. This one couldn't even kill Echo, and she's pretty much "DareDevil with eyes". Kl'rt was battling the Fantastic Four on a regular basis. I get that they have neat powers, but this one, in particular, had an emphatically poor showing and lost to a single mutant and a deaf swordswoman despite all its powers. I'm just hoping this is the wuss of the army; if they're all this weak, Stark's going to have them mopped up before the first day of the invasion is even over.

Two things to remember about that - this is the Marvel Universe. A single skilled human always has the chance to take down a god. Cap's gotten a few decent throwdowns with the Hulk. And Maya has Cap's moves, if not his ingenuity.

Second, it's the ol' "god-like being underestimates the normal human" gambit. By the time the Skrull gets serious, Logan's popping claws into its underbelly.

[StoneGold]

An easy way to fix it would be for the Sentry to kill all of them, see which ones bodies turn skrully, then resurrect those that dont. Simple, and im sure killing and then bringing back his entire team wouldn't mess with his head at all.

That's assuming resurrection is in his power set, and the thing with Lindsay isn't wackier. I'm betting on wackier, but I've been saying that since the first issue of the second mini. I think his wife is all in his head.

[bjtrdff]

Not his head, but made by his head. Hard light construct, whatever you want to call it. Not a human who was resurrected.

I'm also thinking that the NA proper is skrull free at this point, although it makes me a bit sad to think that there's little chance of BND taking place in an alternate universe. The Dr. Stange Sanctorum being infiltrated will be Jessica or the baby, Avengers Tower is Jarvis, and one MA member besides Ms Marvel will be a Skrull.

[Toboe]

Bendis certainly shines more with character centric issues than he ever will with team books. Most of his team books end up being splash pages with hundreds of characters talking the same way, but this kind of issue lets him work out his strengths.

It was great having some spotlight on Echo, she'd felt a little off since her rescue from Japan, and now we get a sense of what exactly is her purpose on the book. Having her brief past relationship with Wolverine fleshed out was something I was expecting, and her flirting with Clint culminating at last was interesting yet somewhat forced.

The skrull was kinda lame, though. It's been very hit or miss for me.

[4thHorseman]

First avengers issue I picked up. Hated the art, story was ho hum, and the skrull was too sloppy to be considered a threat.

So apparently there are skrulls out there that are killing while replacing people, other skrulls "respect" the heroes and try not to hurt them.

Certain things about SI perk me up, then things like this, do not.

[StoneGold]

Not his head, but made by his head. Hard light construct, whatever you want to call it. Not a human who was resurrected.


That's what I meant.

[bjtrdff]

I figured, but since the Sentry seems to be a generally confusing subject for a lot of online folks, I thought I'd shove it out there in the reply first.

I'm really interested to see what happens when both avengers teams arrive in the savage land and meet the skrulls (which will likely be the ones posing as the so-called 70s heroes).

[Tobias Drake]

Two things to remember about that - this is the Marvel Universe. A single skilled human always has the chance to take down a god. Cap's gotten a few decent throwdowns with the Hulk. And Maya has Cap's moves, if not his ingenuity.

Second, it's the ol' "god-like being underestimates the normal human" gambit. By the time the Skrull gets serious, Logan's popping claws into its underbelly.

Even considering that, given that this is the first and only showing this particular Skrull has given, it's present 0-1 impressive/unimpressive showing does not stand in its favor. Cap taking down the Hulk is one thing; the Hulk has demonstrated his power more than enough times to get the benefit of the doubt as a serious, high-end contender. This is the first we've seen of this Skrull, however, and it was thoroughly pwned by Wolverine. There is no past history to supply benefit of the doubt that perhaps this was just an off-day for her.

The Skrulls we saw in Illuminati #5, conversely, were pretty impressive. I liked them. But this one was flashy, showy, and a truly spectacular failure. I want to see Kl'rt come back just to beat the crap out of this skrull and show her how it's supposed to be done.

[Animalia]

Clint is hooking up with everyone these days isn't he? If that even is the real Clint.....

I'm glad the whole issue was Maya. She's my favorite New Avenger as of late.

[marvelboi77]

Not his head, but made by his head. Hard light construct, whatever you want to call it. Not a human who was resurrected.

I'm also thinking that the NA proper is skrull free at this point, although it makes me a bit sad to think that there's little chance of BND taking place in an alternate universe. The Dr. Stange Sanctorum being infiltrated will be Jessica or the baby, Avengers Tower is Jarvis, and one MA member besides Ms Marvel will be a Skrull.

There is a Secret Invasion trailer that's pretty cool on Marvel .com. It's about the skrulls, it shows Elektra, and Black Bolt (Mission acomplished) It shows Echo, and states failure. It shows Mighty Avengers tower (Affirmative), it shows the Baxter Building (Affirmitive), It shows Dr. Strange's house (AFFIRMITIVE), so I would say that there is a Skrull in New Avengers.

[Dr. Chaos]

Yeah, it's best not to look too much into things with character like Maya and her hand or Wolverine lurking in a shadowy corner.

They're all damaged goods in some way or another (except for Rand, he's pretty much got it made), emotionally, physically or mentally, being on The "Dark" Avengers tends to bring that out in them a lil more.

[XPac]

There is a Secret Invasion trailer that's pretty cool on Marvel .com. It's about the skrulls, it shows Elektra, and Black Bolt (Mission acomplished) It shows Echo, and states failure. It shows Mighty Avengers tower (Affirmative), it shows the Baxter Building (Affirmitive), It shows Dr. Strange's house (AFFIRMITIVE), so I would say that there is a Skrull in New Avengers.

Yeah, but there were a lot of people in Strange's place besides the NA.

Wong, Night Nurse, Jessica and the baby... etc etc.

[Capt USA]

I wonder how many Skrulls Bendis has planned for this infiltration, and whether any of them will become "name" characters like super-skrull? I know that he's planned to have one in each initiative team so that is 50 individual skrulls, and a few have already died so far as their plan has escalated.

[Toboe]

I think they were referring to the Cage/Jones baby as the one in the Sanctum Sanctorum at the time.

[XPac]

I wonder how many Skrulls Bendis has planned for this infiltration, and whether any of them will become "name" characters like super-skrull? I know that he's planned to have one in each initiative team so that is 50 individual skrulls, and a few have already died so far as their plan has escalated.

Well, the X-Skrull seems to be getting a lot of face time. I wouldn't be shocked if we saw more of him.

And if nothing else, it might give a little bit of spotlight to the skrulls that are currently wandering around the MU. Human Torch's ex for example has basically been in limbo since just prior to Heroes Reborn. Crusader over in the Initiative might be able to become more of a break out star.

[Raffi]

Since the trailer is up to date on the Maya infiltration attempt, which happened so recently, it must also be up to date on the situation at Dr Strange's: i.e. that the New Avengers no longer live there.

So if it states that the infiltration of his house succeeded, there are only three possibilities: Strange himself, Wong or the Night nurse.

[Netley]

Is it just me, or does it look like they're just going to do character profile issues during Secret Invasion on this book like they did for "Civil War" where they just follow a team member around? Nick Fury has one coming up, too.

Yeah, I think all 16 of the NA/MA SI tie-in issues are going to be character profiles. But, unlike this issue, the rest will take place at different points in the past, showing how the character was swapped and what they've secretly done and stuff. What we see here is a failed Skrull-switch attempt, which actually tells us a lot about how they do it, while still raising questions. (She "studied" Echo and has "a lot of respect" for her?)

Can't wait for the Fury one myself!

And on a sidenote: I like that the skrull stayed in disguise the entire time.

It's a much more creepy visual than just skrulling out.

Yeah, it totally is! I would guess that's also as a mental fighting tactic. It's got to be difficult in just a instinctual-kind-of-way attacking what looks like yourself!

Yeah. The thing that I didn't like about an earlier issue of Captain Mar-Vell was that they revealed themselve WAY too easily.

Yeah, in the interrogation room Marvel's like "are you a Skrull?" and he's just like, "yeah, you got me." Even Law & Order has more believable confessions than that haha!

Bendis has established very clearly that there are no Skrulls on the team, and more than once. This is just further proof.

The two Strange spells (one revealing that no one on NA had a hidden agenda and one revealing the NA's inner-selves (which was so cool!)) did seem to clear them all of Skrulliness pretty well. However, that's dependent on Doc Strange not being a Skrull (but I don't think he is...I don't think he'll even return until after SI, personally).

And note that those spells were performed after Spider-Woman switched teams, so she wasn't cleared by either one.

I love how absolutely horribly Bendis wrote Daredevil. I mean, just miserable. So ridiculously bad, it actually threw me for a second. Obviously on purpose, as he was a Skrull, but ye gods, that was off voice.

I know, that was really cool! He's one of the few writers who can pull that off so well, since he has obviously proven years ago that he KNOWS Matt's character. Using the same logic, if you ever see Wong NOT being snooty in a Bendis book, you'll know he's a Skrull too haha!


i liked "Eye's open! She 'ported! ... (she can't hear me) ..."
very cool

Such a cool "realistic" take on teleportation! Best Wolvie line since he laughed at that joke Spidey made about Japanese game shows!

This X-Skrull is popping up all over the place. Assuming it's the same skrull, I think this guy comes off more as a warrior than as one of their top intell guys. I don't think he's spent too much time preparing himself for the role as he clearly has a million other little jobs to do.


I'll bet he's not only a warrior, but one of many X-Skrull warriors. If they now have the tech to X-ify themselves, why not make an army of them?

I've been saying that since the first issue of the second mini. I think his wife is all in his head.

Oh $#!+ I bet you're right! Never thought of that! I can see the reveal now...Sentry starts freaking out like a school girl as Lindy slowly morphs into the void! :eek:

Also, anyone think it's kind of trippy that we have an issue of Avengers that stars Echo and Wolverine? I know it makes complete sense with everything going on and they're on the team and all, it's just if someone told me in 2003 that I would be this excited about an issue of Avengers entirely starring Echo and Wolverine I would have laughed.

[XPac]

I'll bet he's not only a warrior, but one of many X-Skrull warriors. If they now have the tech to X-ify themselves, why not make an army of them?





I wouldn't be shocked if there were more than one X skrull, since that model seems to pop up all over the place.

That said, there was only one Super Skrull for a very very long time, so I'm assuming that making these uber Skrulls is either very difficult or costly in some way. If they could make as many of them as they wanted, they probably wouldn't need to be as sneaky as they're being now.

[bjtrdff]

And note that those spells were performed after Spider-Woman switched teams, so she wasn't cleared by either one.




Uh...one spell was done with SW was with the team.

[Tobias Drake]

Also note that Doctor Strange himself has admitted that his spells do absolutely jack towards detecting Skrulls, during the Illuminati issue. So even Strange himself has cast a vote in the favor of "There may be a Skrull and Strange just couldn't find it".

[Netley]

Uh...one spell was done with SW was with the team.

You're right, I forgot the first spell (the "hidden agenda spell") took place pre-Skrullektra and was motivated by worries of a Stark loyalist on the team. So Spider-Woman was cleared of Skrulliness at that point. Good catch.

Doesn't necessarily mean they didn't Skrull-swap her at some point after that...perhaps on her way to join Tony's Avengers? Hmmm...

[Netley]

Also note that Doctor Strange himself has admitted that his spells do absolutely jack towards detecting Skrulls, during the Illuminati issue. So even Strange himself has cast a vote in the favor of "There may be a Skrull and Strange just couldn't find it".

That's right, he had no clue at all about Black Bolt. I'd liked to have see Strange perform a "hidden agenda" or "inner-self" spell on the Illuminati at some point before #5, to see how Black Bolt would have appeared...though I guess not knowing this stuff is what makes it a mystery haha!

[DeadXMan]

That particular skrull musta been the weakest of their kind. He was able to emulate Logan's looks, but not his power, as it only took a single slice from that gargantuan Gilgamesh sword to kill it. The Twelve wasn't exactly a great storyline and it seemed somewhat ripped from X-Men:TAS. The only reason you'd notice the story even happened is because it gave Logan his adamantium skeleton back after the long period that his bones were actually bone.


that was a regular skrull not a X-Super Skrull

[jackolover]

I like this story because Bendis gets into the mind of Hawkeye. Clint Barton takes a look at the New Avengers and what seems a lame squad when compared to the real Mighty Avengers. Clint got to the point that it doesn't matter if you're low powered, can't mix it with the big achievers, because one day, the squad has changed into something better than when it started, because it has to do things simpler, and so smarter. It makes the little guy, in the superhero world, stand up as a player. It gives the little guy self-confidence.

What I didn't get was David Macks begginning with the hands across Echos face at the start and finish of the story. I understand that Echo felt outclassed, in the Avengers that aren't, but later, Clint Barton lifts her self-esteem . That was a Clint Barton I couldn't remember, and he seemed out of character, in that he was this touchy feely kind of guy, when I always knew him as brash and full of himself. Is he only like this with girls so he can bed them?

[jackolover]

The switch could have been after Japan...


And in all fairness regarding Spider-Woman, if you were a hidden skrull, and in that situation, it's not necessarily out of the question that you would, on the fly, improvise and bring the body to Stark. It accomplishes a lot of things, like spreading distrust, turmoil, infiltrating the sanctioned avengers team. etc;.

And realistically, a skrull could probably assume from that point on that Stark and co. would find out eventually, and that turning it into any sort of advantage at all would be beneficial.

Showing Tony the Skrull was all Spiderwomans idea, and everyone else disagreed. Why show Tony the Skrull? Spiderwoman said because if Tony was a Skrull, Tony would try to kill her, but why would anybody walk into that risky a situation alone? I know I'd want backup. Her excuse doesn't follow.

And looking at the situation, militarily, Spiderwoman walking into Stark Towers with a Skrull, going up to a guy [Tony Stark] who already arrested Jess and locked her up before in CW, isn't logical. What has changed that would make Jess approache Stark?

Nothing at that stage, unless she spoke to Stark after WWH, when he gave amnestys to every hero who helped in the fight and got beaten. I suppose while Stark was all chained up at the MSG, words were spoken that we we're not privy too, and thats when Stark would have warmed to the New Avengers, that came to fight and were defeated, just like Stark was. Maybe that's a story that still needs to be told.

[Omega Alpha]

Showing Tony the Skrull was all Spiderwomans idea, and everyone else disagreed. Why show Tony the Skrull? Spiderwoman said because if Tony was a Skrull, Tony would try to kill her, but why would anybody walk into that risky a situation alone? I know I'd want backup. Her excuse doesn't follow.

And looking at the situation, militarily, Spiderwoman walking into Stark Towers with a Skrull, going up to a guy [Tony Stark] who already arrested Jess and locked her up before in CW, isn't logical. What has changed that would make Jess approache Stark?

What has changed is that the entire world was in risk. Like Tony said in Mighty Avengers, the Skrull made registration, Civil War, all of it, look irrelevant. Jessica obviously wanted backup, but no one wanted to go with her, so she went alone.

[XPac]

What has changed is that the entire world was in risk. Like Tony said in Mighty Avengers, the Skrull made registration, Civil War, all of it, look irrelevant. Jessica obviously wanted backup, but no one wanted to go with her, so she went alone.

She didn't seem to eager to want back up when she was shooting at her teammates who had just been in a plane crash.

Personally, if I were Jessica I'd give Dr. Strange another shot at trying to find a way to reveal the skrulls before handing it over to Tony. It's easier for be to believe that Strange can overcome whatever the skrulls are using to hide themselves with magic than Tony can with science, since the Skrulls are a more technologically advaned society.

[GodzIllinois]

I thought the art was fantastic, David Mack is an amazing artist and I loved the way the panels were layed out in this, that style maybe didn't fit the fight scenes so well but it was still beautifully done.

I still don't get it, was that just a Skrull that happend to stop by and try and infiltrate as Echo or does this mean that Daredevil's been a skrull this entire time?

P.S. I love Echo, Bendis better not kill her-and if Cage turns out to be a Skrull I'll quit comics.

[XPac]

I thought the art was fantastic, David Mack is an amazing artist and I loved the way the panels were layed out in this, that style maybe didn't fit the fight scenes so well but it was still beautifully done.

I still don't get it, was that just a Skrull that happend to stop by and try and infiltrate as Echo or does this mean that Daredevil's been a skrull this entire time?

P.S. I love Echo, Bendis better not kill her-and if Cage turns out to be a Skrull I'll quit comics.

We have already seen evidence in other comics that a skrull can attempt to impersonate someone without switching places with them. So I'm assuming Daredevil is still Daredevil and this was a one time thing just to try and catch Echo.

Also, this skrull wasn't particularly good at potraying Daredevil (and Bendis obviously knows how to write Daredevil so I'm assuming this was intentional), so it doesn't seem like he's been doing it for any length of time.

[Tobias Drake]

She didn't seem to eager to want back up when she was shooting at her teammates who had just been in a plane crash.

Personally, if I were Jessica I'd give Dr. Strange another shot at trying to find a way to reveal the skrulls before handing it over to Tony. It's easier for be to believe that Strange can overcome whatever the skrulls are using to hide themselves with magic than Tony can with science, since the Skrulls are a more technologically advaned society.

It isn't just about revealing them. If it is a large-scale global invasion they're facing, then Tony Stark, S.H.I.E.L.D., and the Initiative ultimately have a better shot of putting up a resistance than six fugitives. They have the advantage of both numbers and heavy powerhouses like Sentry. I think, ultimately, she weighed her options and realized that this was on a far grander scale than they, alone, could accomplish. She needed resources and aid that she simply did not possess with them.

That is, of course, assuming she is not a Skrull. Which I am not yet convinced of; she just seems too Skrully to me.

[Agent_Torpor]

Ha, at this point, did anyone even care about the story with David Mack's art getting shot full of holes over there on the Newsarama thread?

[marvelboi77]

Ha, at this point, did anyone even care about the story with David Mack's art getting shot full of holes over there on the Newsarama thread?

No.................

[Agent_Torpor]

I thought the art was fantastic, David Mack is an amazing artist and I loved the way the panels were layed out in this, ...

lolzers, omg

you mean alan davis, adam hughes, david mazzuchelli are amazing artists...

[GodzIllinois]

lolzers, omg

you mean alan davis, adam hughes, david mazzuchelli are amazing artists...

I never said they weren't, how does me saying that David Mack's art was amazing automatically mean that I don't think your taste in art is valid? And we weren't talking about them. David Mack's sense of design and layout is unique and his line work is very organic, and the man can paint.

[marvelboi77]

I never said they weren't, how does me saying that David Mack's art was amazing automatically mean that I don't think your taste in art is valid? And we weren't talking about them. David Mack's sense of design and layout is unique and his line work is very organic, and the man can paint.

He's trying to start something. Mack I guess... say's that in order to get across that Daredevil was a Skrull he drew him in poses, and backgrounds of other artists like Hughes. So if you have other issues and match it up, it looks like these guys poses, and layouts. Some people have been blowing there minds up pissed off about this. I like you don't know what the hell they are talking about. I guess I don't pay that much attentions to passed comics nor do I collect Daredevil. But the original cover had to be done because it was a copy of someone else's cover or something like that. But Mack says he used all of these peoples work because it makes it erie that the Skrull is duplicating what they saw.

[Netley]

What has changed is that the entire world was in risk. Like Tony said in Mighty Avengers, the Skrull made registration, Civil War, all of it, look irrelevant. Jessica obviously wanted backup, but no one wanted to go with her, so she went alone.

I agree. And with her knowledge and past of espionage/spy stuff, it makes sense that she's the first of the NA to really put together how big of an infiltration Skrullektra likely represents. Taking the body to "the biggest cop in the world" (as she put it) either gets him on your side for something big or exposes his true nature if he is a Skrull by how he reacts.

Wolverine and Cage understood this somewhat as well, but they had such a "@#$% Tony Stark" attitude that they immediately assumed he was "the Skrulliest of them all!"

We have already seen evidence in other comics that a skrull can attempt to impersonate someone without switching places with them. So I'm assuming Daredevil is still Daredevil and this was a one time thing just to try and catch Echo.

Also, this skrull wasn't particularly good at potraying Daredevil (and Bendis obviously knows how to write Daredevil so I'm assuming this was intentional), so it doesn't seem like he's been doing it for any length of time.

Absolutely. I think that Skrecho Devil (Skrull+Echoh+DD haha) from this issue was trained and ready to become Echo, and just used DD's likeness to catch Echo with her guard down (not realizing Wolvie was following). I don't think this story necessarily means that there's been a Skrull DD running around the MU at all, other than what we see here.

[PastePotPete]

He's trying to start something. Mack I guess... say's that in order to get across that Daredevil was a Skrull he drew him in poses, and backgrounds of other artists like Hughes. So if you have other issues and match it up, it looks like these guys poses, and layouts. Some people have been blowing there minds up pissed off about this. I like you don't know what the hell they are talking about. I guess I don't pay that much attentions to passed comics nor do I collect Daredevil. But the original cover had to be done because it was a copy of someone else's cover or something like that. But Mack says he used all of these peoples work because it makes it erie that the Skrull is duplicating what they saw.

Hadn't seen the Newsarama thread. Hadn't heard about the copycatting. Still thought the art was really bad in this issue. It wasn't horrible in the opening scenes or toward the end, but, man, that fight in the middle looked unfinished. Come on, Marvel! This is a 'flagship' book. You can find a better fill-in!

[Agent_Torpor]

Hadn't seen the Newsarama thread. Hadn't heard about the copycatting. Still thought the art was really bad in this issue. It wasn't horrible in the opening scenes or toward the end, but, man, that fight in the middle looked unfinished. Come on, Marvel! This is a 'flagship' book. You can find a better fill-in!

You should really check out the Newsarama thread. It's an eye-opener.

And yeah, you would think Joey Q would demand better from a "flagship" title.

[XPac]

It isn't just about revealing them. If it is a large-scale global invasion they're facing, then Tony Stark, S.H.I.E.L.D., and the Initiative ultimately have a better shot of putting up a resistance than six fugitives. They have the advantage of both numbers and heavy powerhouses like Sentry. I think, ultimately, she weighed her options and realized that this was on a far grander scale than they, alone, could accomplish. She needed resources and aid that she simply did not possess with them.

That is, of course, assuming she is not a Skrull. Which I am not yet convinced of; she just seems too Skrully to me.

Oh, I wasn't saying don't eventually let Tony and everyone else in on the whole Skrull thing. What I"m simply saying is that Dr. Strange should get the first crack at the thing. It's frankly nothing short of a miracle that whatever they're doing is getting past Strange in the first place... I think he's their best shot.

Afterwards, if Strange is done with the thing (or if he simply can't do anything with it), he can deliver the body to Stark or Reed or whoever... that's the safest option since it's not likely they can take Strange if they do decide to arrest him. And frankly, Strange is probably more trustworthy than Jessica so they're more likely to believe her anyways.

[Porcelain]

Just to clarify the Maya hand shadow thing from the last page a bit more... All that's happening is she's covering her eyes/face with her hand. In the third panel you see Clint and Maya, with Maya looking towards Clint with her fingers resting on her face. The next panel switches to Maya's point-of-view as evidenced by the angle of Clint, and we see the silhouette of her fingers over her eyes. It is a bit hard to figure out immediately, but that's all that's going on. It's symmetrical with the first page of the issue where her fingers gradually come away from her eyes as we see her in the mirror from her own point-of-view.

Whether this imagery is meant to suggest anything or is just a sort of poetic presentation choice is up for debate I suppose, but I believe it's the latter. It's a way I think to highlight Maya's existence in a world without sound by focusing so much on the visual.
Ditto - loved the mirroring.

This is the first issue of NA I've enjoyed in an age. Really haven't given a crap about the whole Skrull thing and most stories since CW have been very character-lite, this was a breath of fresh air. I loved the artistic style and finally Echo becomes a person instead of just wallpaper/plot device - someone I could really begin to like. Silly but the female contingent has felt very thin since Spiderwoman left. The only honest niggle I had on the artwork front was that I didn't know if it was Iron Fist or Hawkeye until he spoke.

Also like the idea of (whomever thought) Jessica is a skrull and was the paranoia catalyst, would be very logical.

[jackolover]

He's trying to start something. Mack I guess... say's that in order to get across that Daredevil was a Skrull he drew him in poses, and backgrounds of other artists like Hughes. So if you have other issues and match it up, it looks like these guys poses, and layouts. Some people have been blowing there minds up pissed off about this. I like you don't know what the hell they are talking about. I guess I don't pay that much attentions to passed comics nor do I collect Daredevil. But the original cover had to be done because it was a copy of someone else's cover or something like that. But Mack says he used all of these peoples work because it makes it erie that the Skrull is duplicating what they saw.

Yeah, David Mack is using duplication of artists work, as a symbol of the Skrulls duplicating Daredevil and Echo. It's fair as a symbolism.

[Mark_S]

It isn't just about revealing them. If it is a large-scale global invasion they're facing, then Tony Stark, S.H.I.E.L.D., and the Initiative ultimately have a better shot of putting up a resistance than six fugitives. They have the advantage of both numbers and heavy powerhouses like Sentry.

I agree, but on the other hand a large organization like SHIELD is pretty easy to infiltrate. Heck they can't even keep Faust and the Red Skull out. And in a crisis conflicting orders can really mess up the chain of command. Most of the strength in SHIELD can be nuetralized for a short amount of time by just a few people in the right places.

Mark_S

[jackolover]

Absolutely. I think that Skrecho Devil (Skrull+Echoh+DD haha) from this issue was trained and ready to become Echo, and just used DD's likeness to catch Echo with her guard down (not realizing Wolvie was following). I don't think this story necessarily means that there's been a Skrull DD running around the MU at all, other than what we see here.

It was a big coincidence that this Skrull [Seems like one of the super Skrulls from Illuminati #5 from it's power] anticipated where Echo would be. I figure this Skrull was lurking around Matt Murdochs establishment, when Echo happened along. This was one resilient Skrull, if getting wrecked by Wolverine doesn't kill it.

[jackolover]

Oh, I wasn't saying don't eventually let Tony and everyone else in on the whole Skrull thing. What I"m simply saying is that Dr. Strange should get the first crack at the thing. It's frankly nothing short of a miracle that whatever they're doing is getting past Strange in the first place... I think he's their best shot.

Afterwards, if Strange is done with the thing (or if he simply can't do anything with it), he can deliver the body to Stark or Reed or whoever... that's the safest option since it's not likely they can take Strange if they do decide to arrest him. And frankly, Strange is probably more trustworthy than Jessica so they're more likely to believe her anyways.

I think the Skrulls have been cloaking Stranges Mystic Powers ever since Stephen got involved with the NA. Stephen has been acting strangely, saying this doesn't work, and somethings effecting his powers, for quite a while now. Strange basically got taken out of the picture once WWH was over, so Jess using him as an option is irrelevant.

What I don't understand is the switches Bendis is making in this book. That's making me more paranoid than anything. I saw all the New Avengers stabbed through by the Hand in one issue, and the next issue, everyone is as good as gold. Even Strange, who should have been dead, was alive again. And his powers are curtailed; and Spider woman doubles over when Strange throws a spell over all the NA to reveal if they are who they should be. So many anomalies have gone on through this book. It's like one of the NA has a spell over the other heros, and makes all the situations change.

[XPac]

I think the Skrulls have been cloaking Stranges Mystic Powers ever since Stephen got involved with the NA. Stephen has been acting strangely, saying this doesn't work, and somethings effecting his powers, for quite a while now. Strange basically got taken out of the picture once WWH was over, so Jess using him as an option is irrelevant.

What I don't understand is the switches Bendis is making in this book. That's making me more paranoid than anything. I saw all the New Avengers stabbed through by the Hand in one issue, and the next issue, everyone is as good as gold. Even Strange, who should have been dead, was alive again. And his powers are curtailed; and Spider woman doubles over when Strange throws a spell over all the NA to reveal if they are who they should be. So many anomalies have gone on through this book. It's like one of the NA has a spell over the other heros, and makes all the situations change.

The fact that they captured Strange and did who knows what to him probably helps explain their ability to block him from detecting them... that said I still think Strange has better odds of overcoming whatever the Skrulls are doing than just about anyone else on earth. Give him time, there's nothing he can't do. I don't blame Bendis for deciding not to use Strange as a fix-all to every problem... but nonetheless that's what I'd do if I were Jess. I'd give Strange another shot before deciding to hand him over to Tony.

And to be completely honest, the first person I'd have it over to is Reed. For one thing, I'd be less worried that Reed would arrest me since he stopped caring about the SHRA 4 seconds after Civil War ended. For another, Skrulls are his specialty. Once Reed knows, HE can tell Tony about the Skrulls without having to worry about Tony doing anything.

As far as some of the anomolies... Strange getting stabbed is no biggie. He's Dr. Strange. He can't be killed with a sword. A wave of his hand and a few words, and he's good to go. If you really look at the issue again, the only other Avenger that gets stabbed is Wolverine... and he gets stabbed all the time. No biggie for him. The rest were getting swarmed by the hand, but they weren't getting stabbed or anything. Basically, the Hand got the upper hand on the NA for like a second (which ended up a month since that was the end of the issue)... but afterwards the Hand proceeded to do what they do best. The got their butts handed to them.

[Netley]

And to be completely honest, the first person I'd have it over to is Reed. For one thing, I'd be less worried that Reed would arrest me since he stopped caring about the SHRA 4 seconds after Civil War ended. For another, Skrulls are his specialty. Once Reed knows, HE can tell Tony about the Skrulls without having to worry about Tony doing anything.


That would have been a smart thing to do. But I think Jessica was in a state of shock over the whole thing (not to mention the plane crash on top of that) and panicked, going with her first thought of taking the body to Stark (trusting him more than Reed due to knowing him better than Reed and being on the same team recently). Or perhaps she's aware of the FF's Skrull history and would be hesitant for any of the four of them to know (out of fear they might be involved).

I don't know. I, myself, would have done what you suggested: let Strange do his magic on the corpse first and, if that didn't give any answers, take it to Reed (hopefully with the rest of the Rebel Avengers, after a well-thought-out discussion of options).

But I can see why Spider-Woman did what she did (unless she's a Skrull, which I don't think she is, but if she is then I have no idea what I'm talking about haha).

[_Jayme_]

Handing it over to Reed wouldn't have been smart, imo. Isn't Reed pro-Stark? He would have handed it over as much as Jessica did.

If I were Jessica, and obviously I'm not and never will be (:p) I would have just ran off without even consulting the others. But then again, that would have made her a more likely suspect...and it would have also been a lot more interesting to think she could be.

[XPac]

Handing it over to Reed wouldn't have been smart, imo. Isn't Reed pro-Stark? He would have handed it over as much as Jessica did.

If I were Jessica, and obviously I'm not and never will be (:p) I would have just ran off without even consulting the others. But then again, that would have made her a more likely suspect...and it would have also been a lot more interesting to think she could be.

Sure Reed is pro-Stark. But at least Reed is less likely to try and arrest you than Stark is. So you get the same end result, plus it's just safer.

And like I said earlier, Reed is really the expert in Skrulls (and probably smarter than Tony anyways).

[IronStarks]

I think the Pro-Reggers gave more important things to worry about right now.

[Dermie]

It was good to see Echo and Clint finally get together. I think it's kind of funny how often a first kiss leads to sex in comic books... I mean, do any superheroes date before getting in bed together?

Some do. Justice and Firestar dated for years, and never ended up having sex (although Vance may have finally lost his virginity to Ultra Girl....we'll see). Ant-Man and Jessica Jones went on some dates before they slept together. So did Luke Cage and She-Hulk. Etc, etc.

Just as in real life, it depends on the people involved, and the nature of the relationship. But I think another factor in superhero relationships is the nature of their lifestyle--their lives are frequently in danger, so they may decide to grab their chances for happiness when they can, rather than draw them out.

I understand that Echo felt outclassed, in the Avengers that aren't, but later, Clint Barton lifts her self-esteem . That was a Clint Barton I couldn't remember, and he seemed out of character, in that he was this touchy feely kind of guy, when I always knew him as brash and full of himself. Is he only like this with girls so he can bed them?

Nah, Clint has been good about relating to people for a long time. He was really brash and arrogant when he was younger (and he still can be these days), but being a team leader really helped mature him.

[GodzIllinois]

You should really check out the Newsarama thread. It's an eye-opener.

And yeah, you would think Joey Q would demand better from a "flagship" title.

I'm new to this board and I've never even been on Newsarama, got a link?

[Pyro]

Some do. Justice and Firestar dated for years, and never ended up having sex (although Vance may have finally lost his virginity to Ultra Girl....we'll see). Ant-Man and Jessica Jones went on some dates before they slept together. So did Luke Cage and She-Hulk. Etc, etc.

Just as in real life, it depends on the people involved, and the nature of the relationship. But I think another factor in superhero relationships is the nature of their lifestyle--their lives are frequently in danger, so they may decide to grab their chances for happiness when they can, rather than draw them out.Yeah, I was exaggerating a bit, but only because it feels like this is a starting to be a trend with Bendis. It felt a bit like a repeat of New Avengers 26 and what happened between Clint and Wanda, all on top of other quick hook-ups I've read in the recent past.

I'm new to this board and I've never even been on Newsarama, got a link?http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=147491
It's a really long thread, but along the way, more and more swipes are found, and creators chime in like Alex Maleev, Mike Oeming, Jamal Igle, and David Mack himself. However, they don't have much of a defense in my opinion.

[Dermie]

Yeah, I was exaggerating a bit, but only because it feels like this is a starting to be a trend with Bendis. It felt a bit like a repeat of New Avengers 26 and what happened between Clint and Wanda, all on top of other quick hook-ups I've read in the recent past.


Fair enough, although I don't think the Clint/Wanda situation and the Clint/Maya situation are really that similar. Clint and Maya have had a mutual attraction that has been building over several issues, and it appears to be the beginning of a new relationship.

Clint/Wanda, on the other hand, was a very unheathy one-night stand between an amnesiac Wanda and an emotionally unstable Clint, that more or less came out of nowhere (Clint was in love with Wanda at one time, but that was years ago) and was supposed to be more of a resolution rather than a beginning of something. So, really, the only thing that the two situations really had in common was that Clint got laid. ;)

[jackolover]

Clint/Wanda, on the other hand, was a very unheathy one-night stand between an amnesiac Wanda and an emotionally unstable Clint, that more or less came out of nowhere (Clint was in love with Wanda at one time, but that was years ago) and was supposed to be more of a resolution rather than a beginning of something. So, really, the only thing that the two situations really had in common was that Clint got laid. ;)

Do you think sex resolves the killing of Clint by Wanda? If Clint went to Wanda looking for closure and some answers is it too simplistic to suggest Clint was unbalanced and that sex was inappropriate?

I'm just wondering if sex between Clint and Wanda was an ointment between their relationship. Did Wanda have all these pent-up frustrations against Clint in the past, and that all came out in Avengers : Disassembled? I don't know.

But I see Clint walking in there, seeing this grounded, peaceful woman whom he used to have affection for, (and whom he was now at odds with), and instead of looking at his betrayer, Clint saw the woman Wanda wanted to be, and forgave her, and when her advances were affectionate, Clints forgiveness didn't stop at the psyche, but reached out to comfort her sexually as well. That to me was the great step Clint took, when he reconciled with Wanda.

[IronKing]

I'm guessing Clint is a Skrull and is now impregnating all the Marvel super-heroines. Seriously.

[Monty_Cristo]

Do you think sex resolves the killing of Clint by Wanda? If Clint went to Wanda looking for closure and some answers is it too simplistic to suggest Clint was unbalanced and that sex was inappropriate?

I'm just wondering if sex between Clint and Wanda was an ointment between their relationship. Did Wanda have all these pent-up frustrations against Clint in the past, and that all came out in Avengers : Disassembled? I don't know.

But I see Clint walking in there, seeing this grounded, peaceful woman whom he used to have affection for, (and whom he was now at odds with), and instead of looking at his betrayer, Clint saw the woman Wanda wanted to be, and forgave her, and when her advances were affectionate, Clints forgiveness didn't stop at the psyche, but reached out to comfort her sexually as well. That to me was the great step Clint took, when he reconciled with Wanda.

i think he was just thinking with little hawkeye.

[DeadXMan]

you mean there was a time when he didn't?

seriouly whoi hasn't he banged?

[mikekerr3]

Sure Reed is pro-Stark. But at least Reed is less likely to try and arrest you than Stark is. So you get the same end result, plus it's just safer.

And like I said earlier, Reed is really the expert in Skrulls (and probably smarter than Tony anyways).

Probably Smarter:confused:

[Dr. Chaos]

Gotta love a skrull cursing in english after getting hit in the head with a flower pot.

I wonder if he gets pissed waiting in line at the DMV just like everybody else?

[Dermie]

Do you think sex resolves the killing of Clint by Wanda?

I'm not sure if that situation can ever be truly "resolved" until/unless Wanda regains a mental capacity to deal with it. But it seems that, for Clint, he got some kind of closure out of it...at least enough to start moving on with his life again.

If Clint went to Wanda looking for closure and some answers is it too simplistic to suggest Clint was unbalanced and that sex was inappropriate?

Clint being unbalanced is just a statement of fact--Clint was emotionally messed up due to everything he'd gone through, with his death and resurrection and death and resurrection again. That emotional confusion is what led him to seek out Wanda in the first place to try and find some closure.
As for inappropriate, I guess it all depends on how you look at it, and how you interpret the situation. But one could certainly argue that it was inappropriate for Clint to be sleeping with a woman that was apparently amnesiac, and not in her right mind. Of course, the fact that Clint was also a bit messed up emotionally at the time means he may not have been thinking quite right either.

But I see Clint walking in there, seeing this grounded, peaceful woman whom he used to have affection for, (and whom he was now at odds with), and instead of looking at his betrayer, Clint saw the woman Wanda wanted to be, and forgave her, and when her advances were affectionate, Clints forgiveness didn't stop at the psyche, but reached out to comfort her sexually as well. That to me was the great step Clint took, when he reconciled with Wanda.

That's certainly a nice way of looking at it. On the flip side, there are those who see it as Clint taking advantage of a mentally unbalanced woman...and perhaps even doing so as revenge for what she'd done to him. Personally, I don't think Clint is that mean-spirited...but I have to admit, there is something about him sleeping with a woman that he knows is suffering from some amnesia or MPD that feels unseemly to me. But I do like the idea of Clint seeing her as the woman she wanted to be.

[Pyro]

lolzers, omg

you mean alan davis, adam hughes, david mazzuchelli are amazing artists...I'm pretty sure there was a gene colan swipe in there as well.

[GodzIllinois]

lolzers, omg

you mean alan davis, adam hughes, david mazzuchelli are amazing artists...

Just saw the David Mack thread, WOW. It really was an eye-opener, now I understand this post a LOT more. Apologies.
As an artist myself I understand using reference to take from (I've done so in the past and people like Alex Ross and Tony Harris on Ex Machina etc have used photo-reference to draw from) but swiping from other people's art? For shame.

That just proves the creepy vibe I got off the guy when I met him at a convention.

[Tetsuo_man]

How creepy a vibe?

[jackolover]

BTW, nice replies Dermie.

I'm not sure if that situation can ever be truly "resolved" until/unless Wanda regains a mental capacity to deal with it. But it seems that, for Clint, he got some kind of closure out of it...at least enough to start moving on with his life again.

It seems a little weird that two messed up people find comfort in each others arms, especially with the tragic history between them. There must have been some part of Wandas mind that recognized this stranger in the village. Perhaps there was some reciprocation sex on Wandas part, if all subconscious. There is love there, and Wanda released that love.

Of course, there is the point that with Wanda being completely amnesiac, that she is just a slut, for taking a complete stranger on the first meeting. I don't mind that development, because there was never any real connotation to the word Scarlet in her title, and it would be nice to pay her that homage.



Clint being unbalanced is just a statement of fact--Clint was emotionally messed up due to everything he'd gone through, with his death and resurrection and death and resurrection again. That emotional confusion is what led him to seek out Wanda in the first place to try and find some closure.
As for inappropriate, I guess it all depends on how you look at it, and how you interpret the situation. But one could certainly argue that it was inappropriate for Clint to be sleeping with a woman that was apparently amnesiac, and not in her right mind. Of course, the fact that Clint was also a bit messed up emotionally at the time means he may not have been thinking quite right either.

It is intriguing that Clint could track Wanda down, and no one else in the MU has been able too. I find that very sexy, as well as persistent.



That's certainly a nice way of looking at it. On the flip side, there are those who see it as Clint taking advantage of a mentally unbalanced woman...and perhaps even doing so as revenge for what she'd done to him. Personally, I don't think Clint is that mean-spirited...but I have to admit, there is something about him sleeping with a woman that he knows is suffering from some amnesia or MPD that feels unseemly to me. But I do like the idea of Clint seeing her as the woman she wanted to be.

With all her history wiped, as it has been, Wanda is in a much better position to discover herself, and be in control of herself, than she has ever been, considering the way those scenes with Clint sizzled. Wanda had always been ashamed, and had poor self-esteem for as long as I've known her.

The only drawback is what she is hiding behind that door. She may be still in a very fragile condition, if all it takes is for someone to unlock that door for her to be completely undone.

[TotalWorldDomination]

The only drawback is what she is hiding behind that door. She may be still in a very fragile condition, if all it takes is for someone to unlock that door for her to be completely undone.

Um, what WAS she hiding behind that door? I'm currently going on the theory that Clint never left Wanda's side and the current Clint on the new avengers is a skrull... but I was unaware that we ever learned that particular secret.

[jackolover]

Um, what WAS she hiding behind that door? I'm currently going on the theory that Clint never left Wanda's side and the current Clint on the new avengers is a skrull... but I was unaware that we ever learned that particular secret.

No. We never learned that particular secret.

[Netley]

Of course, there is the point that with Wanda being completely amnesiac, that she is just a slut, for taking a complete stranger on the first meeting. I don't mind that development, because there was never any real connotation to the word Scarlet in her title, and it would be nice to pay her that homage.


Wow, I had never thought/realized that about her name. The "Witch" aspect also references the same puritanical period as the "Scarlet" (Letter) aspect. Interesting.


It is intriguing that Clint could track Wanda down, and no one else in the MU has been able too. I find that very sexy, as well as persistent.


And very un-Skrully, imo.

Um, what WAS she hiding behind that door? I'm currently going on the theory that Clint never left Wanda's side and the current Clint on the new avengers is a skrull... but I was unaware that we ever learned that particular secret.

Oh $#!+ that would make total sense! I've always been suspicious of an Agatha Harkness/Skrull situation, and that would fit the bill for that. The Clint that went to Wondagore (the post-H of M Hawkeye) was the genuine Clint (as far as being the post-House of M Hawkeye - or at least he thought he was).

But maybe it was a Skrull-Clint that came back to the Sanctum Sanctorum, that's what you're saying. Pretty solid theory. Hurm...

[GodzIllinois]

How creepy a vibe?

Prreeeeeetty creepy, he also kept oogling my ex-girlfriend's breasts (although I did force her to wear a kids Spidey tshirt so in his defense they were sticking out pretty badly.)

[Tetsuo_man]

Prreeeeeetty creepy, he also kept oogling my ex-girlfriend's breasts (although I did force her to wear a kids Spidey tshirt so in his defense they were sticking out pretty badly.)

:eek: why is mack even considered a ladies man?

anyway yeah it's really sad that his work even back in the ninties came from stealing work from the likes of miller and davis in the original kabuki comics from back in the day.

[gunnerfan69]

Clint's Upcomming One-Shot:
"I Boned a Skrull"

With Clint they could devote and entire marvel universe magazine to "Hawkeye and the girls he's boned." :D

[Kirk G]

why stop at girls?

[Kirk G]

I'm guessing Clint is a Skrull and is now impregnating all the Marvel super-heroines. Seriously.

THAT's how they become SKRULLS!
Clint beds them, and when they wake up, they don't remember it,
but they are not sleeper skrulls.... THAT's WHY CLINT IS SUCH A DOG!