She-hulk #27 discussion....

[CMBMOOL]

Okay, first off I haven't seen the issue yet, but I have heard about it and I'm slightly confused at where this is headed for you see....

As within the issue Tony tries to say I'm sorry to Jen in his own way.

and still I don't get it ? :confused:

So can someone help me out here ? :(

[XPac]

That probably just means he tries to sleep with her again.

[Drdmx]

Timelines are kinda messy in Marvel. If he appologizes, and later in the plot they make good, it could explain why she's involved in the Red Hulk Storyline.

[CMBMOOL]

But why would Jen team up with him, after all he done to her and her cousin and the heroes ?

That is my question...:(

[Drdmx]

PAD seems to be exploring the character more so than previous writers, which I think is great. One of these aspects, which I've seen PAD talk about himself, is She Hulk finding her role, and the reasons behind what she wants to do.

If you refer to the thread where someone was grilling PAD over why She-Hulk would step in from letting a dying woman commit murder, his reasoning in short was that in the end, She Hulk is and will always be a hero. I'm guessing she'll have her hang ups, and misgivings about Tony, but in the long run... she'll always choose whats right.

[Mark_S]

When I read it at first I was kinda mad. But then any comic where Tony appears and does not get beaten up sort'a bugs me. In retrospect it works on a lot of levels. Comedic and dramatic.

It seems that in the last issue Jen and Jaz left Larry without filling any police reports or anything, so the police arrested him on charges of murdering his wife. They flat out don't believe him. As a side note Larry is the victim of some really, really bad police work here. He should sue. At the very least they should have checked out his story with Jen, she can't be that hard to get a hold of. They dragged him out of his house in cuffs, in front of his kids no less. At any rate Jen being dissbard can't defend him and so gritting her teeth she calls her old law firm. Jen is also in a bit of trouble because she accidentally ripped the bars off of Larry's prison cell. In court the judge prooves yet again that humanity really doesn't deserve heroes. He is thinking of keeping Jen in jail for breaking the cell doors, but is afraid that some supervillain will attack if Jen stays around. Larry had this point to but Larry's mad at the world right now. I bet if a supervillain did attack the judge would be the first to scream for help. Worthless race.
Mallory does show up to help, with evidence and such, and so does Tony. He make a grandstand entrance in armor, a short speach and that the evidence is enough. Suddenly there is a crowd around him asking for autographs. He hands one to Jen as well, but all that is on it is a note saying: "I'm sorry."
Mallory runs Jen down a bit, what ever led to the dissbaring nearly destroyed the firm. They part as sort of freinds. On the way out of town Jen and Jaz talk, Jen is not sure if Tony meant what he said in the note. She's still trying to figure out what went wrong with the world.

I can see what she means, the post cw mu trusting anyone can be a foolish move. The heroes became villainous and the villains were hired by the government. Where is right and wrong after that? And when the biggest creep of them all gives you a note saying he's sorry do you really take it seriously or do you expect another trap or is he simply manipulating you again as he did before?

Jen herself says to Jaz "I think I can trust you, but I've been betrayed by lovers and allies." In response Jaz tells her that she can't die, that she betrayed the skrull race to get that ability. Jen tosses the note out of the window, then backs the camper up, picks it up and smooths it out as they drive away.

A good issue, great bit with Jen having the strength to take care of things but being hampered by her own principles. I'm sure Tony's supporters will say the note is enough and that he really means it, for myself I figure the note and Tony showing up in the courthouse was a set up so Tony could look good again. If Jen is foolish enough to take him at his word she deserves what she gets.

The art was great in this issue.

Mark_S

[CMBMOOL]

Well let figure it out this way, the last time Jen and Tony met: Jen found out about the Illuminati and the Hulk's exile, and instead of talking it out...Tony depowers her after she gave him a "trashing."

To me Tony was acting like a scared kid who secret was just revealed and was willing to do anything to keep it quiet again.

Still even after the events of World War Hulk we have yet to see Tony confront Bruce and try to at least talk to him, like he did with Cap after Civil War, but we all know what happen to Captain America right ? :rolleyes:


Still I just want to see even Tony admit that he once again made a mistake and try to tick off the Hulk by sending him away unnotice by the public eye. :(

And now with the Skrulls showing up, I wonder when are we going to see a public nervous Breakdown of tony Stark ? :p

[Zel]

It's hard to accept Jen's accepting of Tony's apology when we still don't know how she wound up disbarred, something which seems like Tony was involved in. Even if the disbarring had nothing to do with Tony, I still don't like it. Personally, Tony's actoins towards Jen are really permanent frienship enders. I was very disappointed she went back for the note. I wonder how much freedom PAD had in this area. She Hulk is in Loeb's Red Hulk, she's in Defenders. No one wants to deal with changes, so everyone's friends again.

If Jazinda wanted to get away from her people, wow did she pick the wrong planet.

[XPac]

If not for the Hulk and Defender series, I might have had a harder time seeing Jen accept Starks apology. But since I knew well in advance that she would be working for Stark again in multiple books, I've already assumed that her issues with Stark are really not that big a deal.

She's throwing a minor temper tantrum, before heading back to work for Stark. Hopefully she at least won't be jumping back in bed with him anytime soon.

[CMBMOOL]

It's hard to accept Jen's accepting of Tony's apology when we still don't know how she wound up disbarred, something which seems like Tony was involved in. Even if the disbarring had nothing to do with Tony, I still don't like it. Personally, Tony's actoins towards Jen are really permanent frienship enders. I was very disappointed she went back for the note. I wonder how much freedom PAD had in this area. She Hulk is in Loeb's Red Hulk, she's in Defenders. No one wants to deal with changes, so everyone's friends again.

If Jazinda wanted to get away from her people, wow did she pick the wrong planet.


They could have stated that Jaz may have been Jen in disguise to fool Stark, because we all know that She-Hulk is to be involved in Secret Invasion.

Still I agree with what you are saying and that it still ashamed that Jen is working with Tony once more after all he done to her and her "family." :(

[Weapon Ick]

Remember what Jen did to Starfox when she thought he had betrayed her? I think she should do that to Tony. I just want She-Hulk to kick him in the iron-crotch and then be done with it. Then they'll be even.

[XPac]

Remember what Jen did to Starfox when she thought he had betrayed her? I think she should do that to Tony. I just want She-Hulk to kick him in the iron-crotch and then be done with it. Then they'll be even.

She tried... and she actually did until Tony whipped out the spin tech.

[Mark_S]

Trouble is that chance has passed. Jen could do that on the Helicarrier because Tony struck first, she could do it with Starfox because he was running. But she couldn't do it in a court of law, she's still holding to that legal side of herself. The most she could do to Tony was give him that angry look, and he knew it.

Mark_S

[mikekerr3]

PAD seems to be exploring the character more so than previous writers, which I think is great. One of these aspects, which I've seen PAD talk about himself, is She Hulk finding her role, and the reasons behind what she wants to do.

If you refer to the thread where someone was grilling PAD over why She-Hulk would step in from letting a dying woman commit murder, his reasoning in short was that in the end, She Hulk is and will always be a hero. I'm guessing she'll have her hang ups, and misgivings about Tony, but in the long run... she'll always choose whats right.

Doing whats right and helping tony are not often the same thing lately.

[Dr. Chaos]

*sigh*

Tried to give it another shot but another boring, dramatic unfunny issue with Jen and her disposable sidekick with pedestrian artwork (it's pretty much the entire package, not one thing).

I really really do not want to completely give up on this character but it doesn't look like things are getting any better.

One more shot with the always awesome Herc cameo..so I beg you, God, please use your golden defibrillator on this series..

It really amazes me how this title went from one of the funnest I've ever read to one of the most average ones Marvel has produced in years.

[Drdmx]

Doing whats right and helping tony are not often the same thing lately.

Until the plot unfolds, you really dont know, do ya?

[Mark_S]

*sigh*

Tried to give it another shot but another boring, dramatic unfunny issue with Jen and her disposable sidekick with pedestrian artwork (it's pretty much the entire package, not one thing).

I really really do not want to completely give up on this character but it doesn't look like things are getting any better.

One more shot with the always awesome Herc cameo..so I beg you, God, please use your golden defibrillator on this series..

It really amazes me how this title went from one of the funnest I've ever read to one of the most average ones Marvel has produced in years.

Well it's hard to write a light hearted title given that marvel has embraced the darkness in character and environment. In the post cw/wwh marvel this is about as light as it gets. This issue was a good one in that it did give us some funny moments, but they weren't laugh out loud moments so much as they were Jen playing straightman often times. The sort of humor that the Bob Newhart show's excelled in, where the characters own over reaction gets them into more trouble. And there really is no way you can have a light moment with Tony Stark in the comic.

Mark_S

[Yaw]

I think alot of you are not taking into consideration the fact that She-Hulk is indeed a HULK. Deep down She-Hulk knows that Tony's actions weren't as "evil" as some of you are making it out to be. She is a Hulk. How many times has being a Hulk destroyed a city? She has even killed a teammate when she couldn't control herself. She has kicked Tony's tail on more than one occasion when she went ballistic. Sure each of those instances she was being affected by external influences but nevertheless she shoud understand the psychosis that comes with being a Hulk. I think if you consider he entire history and relationship with Stark then forgiving him doesn't seem very unlikely.

[Peter David]

*sigh*

Tried to give it another shot but another boring, dramatic unfunny issue with Jen and her disposable sidekick with pedestrian artwork (it's pretty much the entire package, not one thing).

I really really do not want to completely give up on this character but it doesn't look like things are getting any better.

One more shot with the always awesome Herc cameo..so I beg you, God, please use your golden defibrillator on this series..

It really amazes me how this title went from one of the funnest I've ever read to one of the most average ones Marvel has produced in years.

Please stop reading it, because my style is nothing like Dan's, and you're clearly not going to be happy with anything that isn't Dan's.

PAD

[Optic Power]

I liked the twist with Jaz being immortal, but i hope she doesnt have to 'die' every other issue. It will be interesting to see where this leads.

Keep up the good work PAD

[Mark_S]

I think alot of you are not taking into consideration the fact that She-Hulk is indeed a HULK. Deep down She-Hulk knows that Tony's actions weren't as "evil" as some of you are making it out to be. She is a Hulk. How many times has being a Hulk destroyed a city? She has even killed a teammate when she couldn't control herself. She has kicked Tony's tail on more than one occasion when she went ballistic. Sure each of those instances she was being affected by external influences but nevertheless she shoud understand the psychosis that comes with being a Hulk. I think if you consider he entire history and relationship with Stark then forgiving him doesn't seem very unlikely.

Yes, well the difference is that in those instances Jen was affected by outside sources. And I don't really blame Jen for anything Bruce has done. Tony on the other hand deliberately planned to sleep with her, lied to her face about her cousin when he knew how much she worried and used an un-tested weapon on her. And even before he used the nanites he shot her and was planning to put her in prison until he got around to doing something about her. Then he dumps her penniliess in New Jersey with a torn uniform to use as bait for someone he wanted to capture. When Jen was depowered any of her old foes could have looked her up and killed her without a problem. Tony left her completely defenseless against them. Sorry, if that's not evil it comes pretty darn close. So if Jen forgives him (as marvel seems to have decreed that she must) she becomes a bit of a doormat in my opinion.

Mark_S

[Mark_S]

I liked the twist with Jaz being immortal, but i hope she doesnt have to 'die' every other issue. It will be interesting to see where this leads.

Keep up the good work PAD

If the power is transferable it would be interesting to see what would happen if Jen happened to get it for a bit.

Mark_S

[Weapon Ick]

Yes, well the difference is that in those instances Jen was affected by outside sources. And I don't really blame Jen for anything Bruce has done. Tony on the other hand deliberately planned to sleep with her, lied to her face about her cousin when he knew how much she worried and used an un-tested weapon on her. And even before he used the nanites he shot her and was planning to put her in prison until he got around to doing something about her. Then he dumps her penniliess in New Jersey with a torn uniform to use as bait for someone he wanted to capture. When Jen was depowered any of her old foes could have looked her up and killed her without a problem. Tony left her completely defenseless against them. Sorry, if that's not evil it comes pretty darn close. So if Jen forgives him (as marvel seems to have decreed that she must) she becomes a bit of a doormat in my opinion.

Mark_S

It seems to me that Jen will not forgive Tony. You make a good case for why he is evil and I agree with it. An important thing to remember is that Iron Man won the war. He's in charge now. He can be as evil as he wants and what is anyone gonna do about it? Captain America got himself killed for going against Iron Man. Can She-Hulk stop him? Does She-Hulk stand a chance against Iron Man?

"Oh jeez... Hes going to inject me with more nanobots" Jen thinks to herself in the new issue. I think she's scared of what he can do to her. Iron Man doesn't have to answer to anybody. He is still Jen's boss. He can get away with doing whatever he wants to her and doesn't have to apologize.

I think she works for him out of self-preservation. And I think she saves his life (in adjectiveless Hulk) out of her sense of morality. But she still resents him. I think she should always keep that level of indignation toward Tony until he really tries to make up for what he did. It's going to take a lot more than a scribbled apology on a piece of paper that's for sure.

If Last Defenders #1 takes place after this issue then it seems like Jen still hates Tony because she takes the job just to spite him. And of course it seems like Tony still disrespects Jen because he assigned her to the New Jersey team which I don't think he has very high hopes for.

My point is that doormat isn't quite the right word for She-hulk. She just doesn't have a lot of options at this point.

[Michael P]

I liked the twist with Jaz being immortal, but i hope she doesnt have to 'die' every other issue.

If that were the case, we'd have to rename her "Kenny."

[XPac]

I think alot of you are not taking into consideration the fact that She-Hulk is indeed a HULK. Deep down She-Hulk knows that Tony's actions weren't as "evil" as some of you are making it out to be. She is a Hulk. How many times has being a Hulk destroyed a city? She has even killed a teammate when she couldn't control herself. She has kicked Tony's tail on more than one occasion when she went ballistic. Sure each of those instances she was being affected by external influences but nevertheless she shoud understand the psychosis that comes with being a Hulk. I think if you consider he entire history and relationship with Stark then forgiving him doesn't seem very unlikely.

I think the problem isn't JUST that Stark exiled Hulk (though that's a lot). It's also the fact that he was sleeping with her while hiding this fact from her, and the fact that he depowered her with spin tech when she confronted him.

That's why she's likely more mad at Stark than say Reed or Strange or Xavier. Stark sort of made this personal.

[CMBMOOL]

It seems to me that Jen will not forgive Tony. You make a good case for why he is evil and I agree with it. An important thing to remember is that Iron Man won the war. He's in charge now. He can be as evil as he wants and what is anyone gonna do about it? Captain America got himself killed for going against Iron Man. Can She-Hulk stop him? Does She-Hulk stand a chance against Iron Man?

"Oh jeez... Hes going to inject me with more nanobots" Jen thinks to herself in the new issue. I think she's scared of what he can do to her. Iron Man doesn't have to answer to anybody. He is still Jen's boss. He can get away with doing whatever he wants to her and doesn't have to apologize.

I think she works for him out of self-preservation. And I think she saves his life (in adjectiveless Hulk) out of her sense of morality. But she still resents him. I think she should always keep that level of indignation toward Tony until he really tries to make up for what he did. It's going to take a lot more than a scribbled apology on a piece of paper that's for sure.

If Last Defenders #1 takes place after this issue then it seems like Jen still hates Tony because she takes the job just to spite him. And of course it seems like Tony still disrespects Jen because he assigned her to the New Jersey team which I don't think he has very high hopes for.

My point is that doormat isn't quite the right word for She-hulk. She just doesn't have a lot of options at this point.



I agree with everything you just stated. :D

[Mark_S]

This would be fun to explore. What if Jen and Jaz took the bounty hunting gig galactic? Hunting down fugitives on other planets? Right now she's going to be known as a bounty hunter anyway, I'm sure the alien bounty hunter will mention it. Jen could become the go-to gal for races who think that their fugitives are hiding out on Earth.

Mark_S

[jhota]

If that were the case, we'd have to rename her "Kenny."

or "Alison Blaire" - since we still don't know what's up with her ability to repeatedly die and come back, either.

i liked this issue. i'm tired of hating Tony Stark. it was nice to see him at least try and show some remorse for something.

but yeah, i hope Herc livens the tone a little.

[mikekerr3]

or "Alison Blaire" - since we still don't know what's up with her ability to repeatedly die and come back, either.

i liked this issue. i'm tired of hating Tony Stark. it was nice to see him at least try and show some remorse for something.

but yeah, i hope Herc livens the tone a little.
Makes me waonder what his REAL motive is, being a decent human being isn't "interesting" enough for his fans.

Herc will lighten things up a lot, and Jen may have a few words for Cho.:D

[jackolover]

So is this the great reconcilliation of Tony Stark for what he did in WWH to Jennifer? How are we supposed to take this? That Tony made a mistake, or, that now that WWH is over, there is no need to nanotech She-Hulk anymore, so lets bygones be bygones?

Tony used She-Hulk for his own purposes to get Gamma nanotech that could hurt Bruce Banner, and now everything is sweet?

I want to know is the change in Tony Stark, and, that the Initiative has really gone down the wayside, or, is this reconciliation with Jen just a result of all the Secret Invasion angst going on? If Tony honestly wants to apologise for what happened to Jen in Planet without a Hulk, then that's a separate matter, and can be dealt with in this book. If the apology is for something greater, like Tonys behaviour during Civil War, then Tony is breaking new ground here.

[mikekerr3]

So is this the great reconcilliation of Tony Stark for what he did in WWH to Jennifer? How are we supposed to take this? That Tony made a mistake, or, that now that WWH is over, there is no need to nanotech She-Hulk anymore, so lets bygones be bygones?

Tony used She-Hulk for his own purposes to get Gamma nanotech that could hurt Bruce Banner, and now everything is sweet?

I want to know is the change in Tony Stark, and, that the Initiative has really gone down the wayside, or, is this reconciliation with Jen just a result of all the Secret Invasion angst going on? If Tony honestly wants to apologise for what happened to Jen in Planet without a Hulk, then that's a separate matter, and can be dealt with in this book. If the apology is for something greater, like Tonys behaviour during Civil War, then Tony is breaking new ground here.

He want her back in bed, or needs her to do some work for him.

[Drdmx]

Im with Jhoata (sp) on this one.

Face facts... at some point Iron Man is going to be redeemed. Some people may be ready to forgive and forget what this fictional character has done, and some of you may not. Bottom line is though is that it has to start somewhere. To be quite honest, if it's him initiating with some sort of apology instead of She Hulk just turning up with him some time, then I'm good with it.

I've been one of the characters biggest detractors for a long time, but all along my problem with the guy is that he never seemed to question any of his actions, or have any ill feelings about the results that were written into continuty.

[jackolover]

Im with Jhoata (sp) on this one.

Face facts... at some point Iron Man is going to be redeemed. Some people may be ready to forgive and forget what this fictional character has done, and some of you may not. Bottom line is though is that it has to start somewhere. To be quite honest, if it's him initiating with some sort of apology instead of She Hulk just turning up with him some time, then I'm good with it.

I've been one of the characters biggest detractors for a long time, but all along my problem with the guy is that he never seemed to question any of his actions, or have any ill feelings about the results that were written into continuty.

Yes, and now Tony is feeling a little remorse, over some of his actions in the past. Okay, that is a bit of redemption of the Tony Stark, but there could be some extenuating circumstances being it is March, in his own book, he is being indicted as a terrorist, he just got a beat down by Thor and Bucky, and Clint Barton is telling Tony what a douchebag he is. All these negative messages, have got to have an effect on the Iron Man.

[Mark_S]

But we have to ask the same question Jen did. Is Tony sincere? Based on his character the past few years you have to think that if Tony is being kind it is because he wants Jen back in bed, he wants her to do something or he is tired of behing hated and has decided to make the first step. That he is actually sorry is a possibility far,far down the list and Jen should treat it as such. She has to know, or at least suspect, that if push comes to shove Tony would serve her up with an apple in her mouth to the alter of pragmatism and expediency that he worships.

Mark_S

[Sandy Hausler]

That probably just means he tries to sleep with her again.


ugh. That's even worse than sleeping with the Juggernaut. :D

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

Just a question. When did Mallory Book get out of her wheel chair? I realize that she was getting physical therapy, which indicated that whatever reason she had for being in a chair was not permanent, but it's a little much to see her without so much as a cane . . . or an explanation. I mean, how much time was there between the Slott issues and the David issues?

I'm interested to see what exactly Jen did to her old firm. Hope that's coming up soon.

Sandy Hausler

[Tobias Drake]

I was rather pleased with Tony Stark this issue. I know some people are saying "Oh, he's just using her" and "Oh, he just wants to sleep with her again," but taking the time out of his incredibly busy day to bail her out of an impossible situation is going a considerable length out of his way just to be an ass. I thought the autograph thing was quaint; he gave her something in writing, something she could hold onto, rather than something that would be warped and distorted by memory.

[CMBMOOL]

I'm sorry PAD, but until I see She-Hulk and Iron Man confront each other over Tony's recent actions and talk it out, then I'm skeptical in guessing that Tony was sorry for his recent actions. :(

[Optic Power]

why is everyone so hung up on the note? So he apoligized, big deal. Hes not some super villian whos either trying to manipulate you or sleep with you all the time. It's freaking Tony Stark, one of the greatest heroes of all time.

[Mark_S]

why is everyone so hung up on the note? So he apoligized, big deal. Hes not some super villian whos either trying to manipulate you or sleep with you all the time. It's freaking Tony Stark, one of the greatest heroes of all time.

Well actually he did manipulate her and sleep with her before, and depowered her and dumped her peniless in New Jersy. Sorry but I think Jen has cause not to trust him.

Mark_S

[Tobias Drake]

why is everyone so hung up on the note? So he apoligized, big deal. Hes not some super villian whos either trying to manipulate you or sleep with you all the time. It's freaking Tony Stark, one of the greatest heroes of all time.

I'm with Optic Power on this one. It just goes to prove that the writers can't even do something as simple as having Tony apologize without half the board exploding in rage and fanwanking nefarious schemes of how evil his apology must truly be.

[Drdmx]

I'm sorry PAD, but until I see She-Hulk and Iron Man confront each other over Tony's recent actions and talk it out, then I'm skeptical in guessing that Tony was sorry for his recent actions. :(

I dont think PAD was trying to win anyone over, rather than just have the actual apology take place. I dont think Iron Man will redeem, nor convince anyone he's realizing his misteps in any book but his own.

That said, if a sit down conversation was to take place between She Hulk and Iron Man, PAD would be the man to write it. His dialogue between characters is excellent, and I'm sure he would be great at dissecting the chain of events that lead to this point.

[mikekerr3]

why is everyone so hung up on the note? So he apoligized, big deal. Hes not some super villian whos either trying to manipulate you or sleep with you all the time. It's freaking Tony Stark, one of the greatest heroes of all time.


Who betrays his friends, sleeps with his subordinates and cheats in the stock market. A man who will use "any means necessary" to do what he whants to do. Why would anyone trust him, he won't let any thing stop him from getting his way.

[Mark_S]

I'm with Optic Power on this one. It just goes to prove that the writers can't even do something as simple as having Tony apologize without half the board exploding in rage and fanwanking nefarious schemes of how evil his apology must truly be.

Well Tobias as pointed out Tony's track record on trust isn't a good one. I would compare him loosely (very loosely) to Lionel Luthor on last night's Smallville, who may be trying to do the right thing but has done so many bad things by now no one buys it. Tony said that the sra wasn't a draft law, Jen was drafted into SHIELD. Tony said that he didn't know where the Hulk was. Tony knew. At what point are we expected to believe that he's not lying? Especially when we know that at some point in the future Jen has some sort of 50 state supergroup. This could be the first part of Tony's plan to get her into the initiative again.
And we aren't alone. Jen herself thought as much as he walked toward her. She thought he was going to attack, hit her with nanites. At this point in his life Tony Stark can do anything to anyone and get away with it and Jen knows that. So how do you trust a guy who's already proven that he plays with people when ever he wants for what ever reason he deems necesary?

But I think part of it may be that not only did Tony lie and betray her, he also used his position and their freindship to sleep with her. I could be wrong here but I don't think anyone on this board is a woman. I've emailed two girl freinds about the situation and asked for thier opinion on how forgiveable he is. If there are any women on the board and I don't know (it's hard to tell after all) chime in please.

Mark_S

[Northstrike]

I dont think PAD was trying to win anyone over, rather than just have the actual apology take place. I dont think Iron Man will redeem, nor convince anyone he's realizing his misteps in any book but his own.

That said, if a sit down conversation was to take place between She Hulk and Iron Man, PAD would be the man to write it. His dialogue between characters is excellent, and I'm sure he would be great at dissecting the chain of events that lead to this point.

I loved this issue. It was the first one of PAD's I've actually liked that much. Dialogue was great, art was much better. We were back in the courtroom, which is kind of what sets She-hulk apart from other characters.

I thought the scenes with Iron Man and Jen were in character and at least they didn't just hug and make up.

Am finding it hard to care about Jadzinda...am interested to see where it goes, but if a skrull necessary, would have preferred to have seen Lyja from the pages of FF rather than introducing a new character.

Am looking forward to the X-factor X-over..

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Am finding it hard to care about Jadzinda...am interested to see where it goes, but if a skrull necessary, would have preferred to have seen Lyja from the pages of FF rather than introducing a new character.

I don't really follow that logic at all. Peter David has said elsewhere that Jazinda has nothing to do with Secret Invasion and that he wasn't told to use a Skrull chatacter. Lyja isn't the character in the story because she wouldn't fit, this wasn't an editorial mandate to use any Skrull, and Lyja would make no sense in the role, Jen and Jaz need each other, they are all each other have right now, whereas Lyja is extremely comfortable on Earth, has roots on Earth and established relationships with others, and NONE with Jen. Not caring about Jaz is a fine opinion and prerogative, but had he squeezed Lyja into the role, the way I see it, it would have had no benefit whatsoever. It would result in readers complaining that Lyja is back with no mention of her relationship with Johnny Storm and the FF, and if there WERE a focus on such, it would beg the question why it were dominating She-Hulk's title. What you seem to be requesting ( a use of Lyja in the Skrull-centric Secret Invasion environment) is happening in the Secret Invasion: Fantastic Four mini series. It will be featuring Lyja heavily.

Jazinda's story in She-Hulk is unique, and required a new character to tell it. I look forward to seeing where it goes and have enjoyed her throughout the current storyarc and I only find her more interesting since finding out she is the Super-Skrull's daughter.

[Mark_S]

Jazinda is a blank slate to me since I don't know anything about the character besides what I've seen. So far she's ok, but with only a few issues to go on it's way too early to tell. She seems to like Jen, Jen likes her. That'll be enough for a start. I like her better than Mallory or any of the male supporting characters Jen has been stuck with over the years. I think it'd be nice to see a meeting between Jaz and some of the other women in Jen's life though. For that matter I'd like to see Howard the Duck and Bev once or twice.

Mark_S

[AnthonyJ]

Well actually he did manipulate her and sleep with her before, and depowered her and dumped her peniless in New Jersy. Sorry but I think Jen has cause not to trust him.
And do you see her trusting him in the issue? Certainly, I wouldn't say with 100% confidence that Tony's not up to something, but that doesn't mean he is up to something; it just means there's a chance he's up to something. Most likely, the situation is just what it looks like: Tony decided to make the first step towards an apology.

[Mark_S]

And do you see her trusting him in the issue? Certainly, I wouldn't say with 100% confidence that Tony's not up to something, but that doesn't mean he is up to something; it just means there's a chance he's up to something. Most likely, the situation is just what it looks like: Tony decided to make the first step towards an apology.

You have a point. And while I'd like to think that there is a sincere bone in Tony's body the very cover of the book reminds me of where marvel is these days. Top left hand corner, "WHO DO YOU TRUST?" Marvel revels in paranoia and betrayals and they have for quite a while now. Trust, sincerity, honor... in my opinion these are not traits in many marvel characters over the last few years and certainly not in Tony Stark. He may be trying to mend fences, but if I were Jen I'd err on the side of caution and look for his angle. And forgiveness would be definately out.

Mark_S

[AnthonyJ]

He may be trying to mend fences, but if I were Jen I'd err on the side of caution and look for his angle. And forgiveness would be definately out.
Sure. Like I said, it's one step in an apology, not something that should result in a full reconciliation.

[jackolover]

She has to know, or at least suspect, that if push comes to shove Tony would serve her up with an apple in her mouth to the alter of pragmatism and expediency that he worships.

Mark_S

I just can't get past the feeling Tony has emotional swings, depending on the circumstances, that if the normals felt all the heros were a threat, he would panic and do whatever it takes to alleviate the normals. Then, when everybody has calmed down, Tony tries to smooth over all the hurt he may have caused. It feels very unheroic.

[jackolover]

I was rather pleased with Tony Stark this issue. I know some people are saying "Oh, he's just using her" and "Oh, he just wants to sleep with her again," but taking the time out of his incredibly busy day to bail her out of an impossible situation is going a considerable length out of his way just to be an ass. I thought the autograph thing was quaint; he gave her something in writing, something she could hold onto, rather than something that would be warped and distorted by memory.

It must have meant something to Jen, because she went back and uncrinkled the paper, after she screwed it up and threw it away.

[XPac]

It must have meant something to Jen, because she went back and uncrinkled the paper, after she screwed it up and threw it away.

It certainly meant enough to get her back to work over in the Hulk book.

[jackolover]

It certainly meant enough to get her back to work over in the Hulk book.

I forgot that. There is continuity

[XPac]

I forgot that. There is continuity

I do sometimes wonder though if things would be written any differently if Loed didn't need She-Hulk to be on Starks team in Hulk. But things are the way they are, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[DeadXMan]

Pad, I must admit, this was far better then my idea of the car wash.

Keep up the good work.

[boshobosho]

I'll say PAD redeemed himself some with this issue. I have not liked his run so far, but this issue was really good in my opinion. A little humor, a little heart..things that make a she-hulk book what it is.

[Mark_S]

Well the two girlfreinds I asked about this both agreed with me. One said that
If She-hulk considers forgiving him, in my oppinion, it means she is either a total fool...or deeply in love with the cad. Sometimes you can't pick who you love, but you can pick who you forgive, so I hope Marvel isn't playing the love card. I vote...don't forgive him for depowering me and dumping me penniless in New Jersey!

and the other

I do not understand everything that happened exactly,
but even if he did just one of the things you
mentioned, a handwritten, unsigned note saying "I'm
sorry" would not come close. Not even remotely close!

and I think these are the only two feminine voices we've heard on the subject so far. However in fairness they have not read the issues, they can only go by my plot descriptions and the occaisional scan I send them of the pages, but I do just lay out the plot for them, I don't slant it.

I wonder if Tony sleeping with Jen wasn't a result of the entire marvel line of comics being written by men. (as far as I know, do they have a woman writing any of the titles?). In my opinion the previous story arc they made date rape a very light subject where Starfox was concerned. Maybe the writers didn't think that the extra of Tony sleeping with Jen was any big deal since she does have that rep of sleeping around a lot. It might have been something thrown into add a little more spice to the story instead of him just lying to her, drafting her into SHIELD and sending her cousin into space. It's possible that the same sort of thought that went into that went into the Ms. Marvel/Imortus storyline of years ago, where after being kidnaped, raped, impregnated and forced to give birth the writers thought it was best that Carol go into the mist of happily ever after with the man who had done all of that to her.

I just don't know. But all this asside I am enjoying the book.

Mark_S

[Weapon Ick]

It certainly meant enough to get her back to work over in the Hulk book.

I still maintain the She-Hulk is working for Stark out of fear of depowering or worse. Tony can do whatever he wants and can get away with it. Also I think she's legally obligated to follow his orders as a result of the SHRA because she's technically a SHIELD agent. As we saw with Wonderman in Civil War it acts as a draft. Which makes me wonder why she was given the option to join the New Jersey initiative team.

[jackolover]

Well the two girlfreinds I asked about this both agreed with me. One said that


and the other



and I think these are the only two feminine voices we've heard on the subject so far. However in fairness they have not read the issues, they can only go by my plot descriptions and the occaisional scan I send them of the pages, but I do just lay out the plot for them, I don't slant it.

I wonder if Tony sleeping with Jen wasn't a result of the entire marvel line of comics being written by men. (as far as I know, do they have a woman writing any of the titles?). In my opinion the previous story arc they made date rape a very light subject where Starfox was concerned. Maybe the writers didn't think that the extra of Tony sleeping with Jen was any big deal since she does have that rep of sleeping around a lot. It might have been something thrown into add a little more spice to the story instead of him just lying to her, drafting her into SHIELD and sending her cousin into space. It's possible that the same sort of thought that went into that went into the Ms. Marvel/Imortus storyline of years ago, where after being kidnaped, raped, impregnated and forced to give birth the writers thought it was best that Carol go into the mist of happily ever after with the man who had done all of that to her.

I just don't know. But all this asside I am enjoying the book.

Mark_S

I saw Jen picking up that 'sorry' note, as Jen being pathetic. She was in her She-Hulk form, and when she is, her morals leave a little to be desired, so maybe her susceptability to the least form of affection [the sorry note] was typical of Jens emotional makeup. I've heard of plenty of wife-bashed women staying with the abuser. Human Jen wouldn't consider Tonys apology, but lets face it, She-Hulk has a whole different bent on relationships.

Read 'Planet without a Hulk' before her 'affair' with Tony, and see what I mean. She just doesn't feel grounded as the She-Hulk.

[Mark_S]

Now that is something that didn't occure to me at all. But even if in her She-Hulk form Jen is more susceptible to emotion wouldn't that mean that she would stay madder for a longer period of time in that form?

Mark_S

[DeadXMan]

you got to admit, Tony Stark apologizing for anything would leave you with a "WTF just happen?" face.

[XPac]

you got to admit, Tony Stark apologizing for anything would leave you with a "WTF just happen?" face.

Maybe, but if that's all it takes for Tony to get Jen to be his muscle again then why not?

Now Stark knows that he can lie to Jen, depower her, and launch her family members into space without having to worry about it, because all he needs to do is write her a quick note and she's back on the job.

I'm half convinced that she'd be in bed with him as we speak if Stark had written his phone number on the back.

[DaeJi]

And here I thought that the paranoia was supposed to be in book, not among the fans. Tony apologized, nothing more. It doesn't have to do anywhere; he's sorry and he told her. She doesn't have to like him or be friends with him again, and he and she knows this. And it looks like they aren't friends after this. As for Hulk, the reason I think she's on that team is not fear of Stark but a sense of responsibility for her gamma radiated peers. And she was for the SHRA, and Stark in charge of it, so he is her boss on some level. Honestly, people are looking way too in to this.

[Tobias Drake]

I still maintain the She-Hulk is working for Stark out of fear of depowering or worse. Tony can do whatever he wants and can get away with it. Also I think she's legally obligated to follow his orders as a result of the SHRA because she's technically a SHIELD agent. As we saw with Wonderman in Civil War it acts as a draft. Which makes me wonder why she was given the option to join the New Jersey initiative team.

She had no problem telling the Initiative to shove it when Nighthawk was recruiting her for the Defenders. She isn't afraid of Tony Stark.

[XPac]

She had no problem telling the Initiative to shove it when Nighthawk was recruiting her for the Defenders. She isn't afraid of Tony Stark.

Wasn't her way of telling the Initiative to shove it by joining the Jersey team? Yeah, she showed them.

And that's in addition to her invaluable assistance in Hulk. Samson needed someone to pretend to hit in the first issue, while Stark needed someone to keep Red Hulk busy while he got in his armor. One I'm sorry note basically got Tony a punching bad. Totally worth it for him.

[Mark_S]

Ultimately Tony's motives and whether or not he is sincere or not is known only to the writers. In this Mr. David is in a horrible position because I'm not sure that he knows what the other writers are planning for Jen and Tony. There is not a lot of title to title co-ordination at marvel. He could write this and then in another title they could be in bed together because another writer would think what Tony did was of no consequence.

Going on the character there is the possibility that Tony is sincere in his appology. So what? He still did it all, he'd still do it all again. He may be sincere in his feelings but Tony is still the man who will put the good of the many over the few or the one, so if he decides that Jen has to obey him for the greater good then he will in my opinion do anything to achieve that goal, from black mail to manipulation to threatening her with depowerment again. And if Jen does not realize this by now then she is a fool. But if a writer wants her in his book on his team as part of the initiative then he will write her as such no matter what has gone before. Marvel writers are quite capable of writing mini-universes where what happens to the character in other books is ignored. In my opinion they tend to excell at it.

Mark_S

[Mark_S]

She had no problem telling the Initiative to shove it when Nighthawk was recruiting her for the Defenders. She isn't afraid of Tony Stark.

What issue was that? I missed it.

Mark_S

[Loner]

or "Alison Blaire" - since we still don't know what's up with her ability to repeatedly die and come back, either.



OMG! Dazzler's a Skrull!

My theory: All the Skrull sleeper agents were given the resurrection power first before they got the powers of the person/people they were supposed to replace. Jazinda took the resurrection power, but fled before getting a hero's power. THAT'S why she's a traitor to her race, not for getting the power in the first place, but for bailing on her mission. OR...she IS on her mission, but part of her cover is most of the Skrulls thinking she's a traitor.

I'm still waiting to see how they work in the Skrull milk from that FF story in the mid-80s. Reed was saying something about how they must have gotten all the milk while in the background a delivery was being made to a military base...

[Drdmx]

Someone referenced a spoiler website in another thread regarding who the Red Hulk is along with alot of the Skrulls. The spoilers seem VERY legit. In any event, I'm just going to take full credit for my call in Fantastic Four.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

OMG! Dazzler's a Skrull!

My theory: All the Skrull sleeper agents were given the resurrection power first before they got the powers of the person/people they were supposed to replace. Jazinda took the resurrection power, but fled before getting a hero's power. THAT'S why she's a traitor to her race, not for getting the power in the first place, but for bailing on her mission. OR...she IS on her mission, but part of her cover is most of the Skrulls thinking she's a traitor.

I'm still waiting to see how they work in the Skrull milk from that FF story in the mid-80s. Reed was saying something about how they must have gotten all the milk while in the background a delivery was being made to a military base...

I don't think you're right about Jazinda, check out this post (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6048279&postcount=14) by series author Peter David.

Jazinda has nothing to do with Secret Invasion, and the Elektra Skrull is DEAD, so she doesn't have the resurrection/can't die power Jazinda has. It seems like the theory doesn't hold up at all.

Also, the Skrull Milk story didn't have the people who were changed by Skrull Milk into agents of the Skrulls, it was a side effect of Mr.Fantastic hypnotizing and making them believe they were cows, not a secret plot. The Milk on the Military base should make more people like those at King's Crossing, not anything to do with Secret Invasion at all.

[Tobias Drake]

What issue was that? I missed it.

Mark_S

The first issue of The Last Defenders. She pretty much told Nighthawk to go to hell with his Stark offer, but reluctantly signed on later just because she liked his sales pitch. I think she trusts Nighthawk to some extent.

[Mark_S]

The first issue of The Last Defenders. She pretty much told Nighthawk to go to hell with his Stark offer, but reluctantly signed on later just because she liked his sales pitch. I think she trusts Nighthawk to some extent.

Either that or long range mind control from Tony. You never know with him. Still if it is just Nighthawk and a few team mates that could be the answer, she's with them and has nothing to do with Tony except that he rules the Initiative.

Mark_S

[Dermie]

Just a question. When did Mallory Book get out of her wheel chair?

About 20 issues ago.

I realize that she was getting physical therapy, which indicated that whatever reason she had for being in a chair was not permanent, but it's a little much to see her without so much as a cane . . . or an explanation.

The explanation was that she was getting physical therapy, and was healing over time. She had a wheelchair for the first 6 or so issues of volume 2. Then she was using crutches until issue #14. And she has been walking just fine without a cane or crutches ever since, for the last 13 issues.

I mean, how much time was there between the Slott issues and the David issues?

At least 3 months, based on Mallory's comments to Jen this issue.

[Peter David]

RE: The apology

Guys...it's very simple. After everything that Tony did to her, she's running around in the red Hulk series like nothing happened. When I first started writing "She-Hulk," I had NO idea she was going to be used in that series, allying with Tony Stark as if the status was quo. In fact, it's entirely possible--considering how early I started working on the book (keep in mind I was writing scripts beyond where Dan had finished scripting)--that not even Marvel knew at the time that She-Hulk was going to be there. So now we've got two wildly different portrayals of She-Hulk in two different books, and I felt I needed to lay at least SOME sort of groundwork for at least the BEGINNINGS of, at best, a truce between Tony and Jen.

You can dissect it into the ground if you want, but given the givens, and considering I didn't want to do something cliched and obvious like having She-Hulk and Iron Man slug it out for 22 pages, this was the best I could do for now.

PAD

[Mark_S]

RE: The apology

Guys...it's very simple. After everything that Tony did to her, she's running around in the red Hulk series like nothing happened. When I first started writing "She-Hulk," I had NO idea she was going to be used in that series, allying with Tony Stark as if the status was quo. In fact, it's entirely possible--considering how early I started working on the book (keep in mind I was writing scripts beyond where Dan had finished scripting)--that not even Marvel knew at the time that She-Hulk was going to be there. So now we've got two wildly different portrayals of She-Hulk in two different books, and I felt I needed to lay at least SOME sort of groundwork for at least the BEGINNINGS of, at best, a truce between Tony and Jen.

You can dissect it into the ground if you want, but given the givens, and considering I didn't want to do something cliched and obvious like having She-Hulk and Iron Man slug it out for 22 pages, this was the best I could do for now.

PAD

Ok, that explains it. Too bad marvel wasn't better at title co-ordination. Doesn't seem like a hi priority to them anymore. But you are right, this lays the ground work for a truce. Tony may think its all over but Jen may be smoldering underneath and it can come out later. Given his arogance Tony may actually imagine that his appology would be enough. Or he may be using a form of mind control to smooth things over. Things are left open.
I never expected or wanted another slugfest, that would have just brought up questions as to why Tony never used the spin again on her.

It does sort of make my point though; it seems the guys at marvel really don't think that what Tony did to Jen was so bad. Done today, forgotten tomorrow because we want her on the new book seems to be the way the thinking went. Doesn't help me when I try to tell my girl friends that comics aren't sexist anymore though.

Mark_S

[CMBMOOL]

RE: The apology

Guys...it's very simple. After everything that Tony did to her, she's running around in the red Hulk series like nothing happened. When I first started writing "She-Hulk," I had NO idea she was going to be used in that series, allying with Tony Stark as if the status was quo. In fact, it's entirely possible--considering how early I started working on the book (keep in mind I was writing scripts beyond where Dan had finished scripting)--that not even Marvel knew at the time that She-Hulk was going to be there. So now we've got two wildly different portrayals of She-Hulk in two different books, and I felt I needed to lay at least SOME sort of groundwork for at least the BEGINNINGS of, at best, a truce between Tony and Jen.

You can dissect it into the ground if you want, but given the givens, and considering I didn't want to do something cliched and obvious like having She-Hulk and Iron Man slug it out for 22 pages, this was the best I could do for now.

PAD


Well,

Thanks for finally answering Mr. David and I will admit that there will be a moment where the She-Hulk will try to confront Tony over his recent actions against her and their heroic peers , and I'm hoping that Secret Invasion is the time to do so. :(


Especially if the Skrulls will reveal why they are invading Earth this time. :p

[XPac]

Well, we can always hope the She-Hulk we see in HULK is a skrull.

[CMBMOOL]

Well, we can always hope the She-Hulk we see in HULK is a skrull.

That what I have been suggesting the whole time. :D

That She-hulk sends her partner in her place in the Hulk series. :o

[Mark_S]

I don't think Jaz could match Jen's strength. I'll still go with mind control.

Mark_S

[DaeJi]

Especially if the Skrulls will reveal why they are invading Earth this time. :p

Religious reasons? I don't see how that will piss people off (Tony and Co. may have made the plans go faster, but they are not the reason; the Annihilation War is a bigger reason).

[Mark_S]

Also almost every alien race has wanted to invade Earth at one time or another. Maybe it's the scenery.

Mark_S

[Drdmx]

Im with Jhoata (sp) on this one.

Face facts... at some point Iron Man is going to be redeemed. Some people may be ready to forgive and forget what this fictional character has done, and some of you may not. Bottom line is though is that it has to start somewhere. To be quite honest, if it's him initiating with some sort of apology instead of She Hulk just turning up with him some time, then I'm good with it.

I've been one of the characters biggest detractors for a long time, but all along my problem with the guy is that he never seemed to question any of his actions, or have any ill feelings about the results that were written into continuty.

Called It!

[Spiffy]

RE: The apology

Guys...it's very simple. After everything that Tony did to her, she's running around in the red Hulk series like nothing happened. When I first started writing "She-Hulk," I had NO idea she was going to be used in that series, allying with Tony Stark as if the status was quo. In fact, it's entirely possible--considering how early I started working on the book (keep in mind I was writing scripts beyond where Dan had finished scripting)--that not even Marvel knew at the time that She-Hulk was going to be there. So now we've got two wildly different portrayals of She-Hulk in two different books, and I felt I needed to lay at least SOME sort of groundwork for at least the BEGINNINGS of, at best, a truce between Tony and Jen.

You can dissect it into the ground if you want, but given the givens, and considering I didn't want to do something cliched and obvious like having She-Hulk and Iron Man slug it out for 22 pages, this was the best I could do for now.

PAD
That actually was exactly the rationale for this I'd drawn in my head after reading this issue, Peter. Its a shame that its not obvious that this happened before Red Hulk, but the very fact that you thought about this shows that your head is in the right place. Many writers simply wouldn't have given a crap and would have let the fact that She-Hulk and Iron Man had a grudge totally slide in their own book as well rather than actually bothering to give an explanation to cover another writer's oversight.

Good work, in my opinion. I thought it was great. It put the ball firmly in She-Hulk's court, and gives her character a boost even more than Tony Stark, because she's the one having to forgive. He just had to humble himself a little.

[Mark_S]

From one of my girlfriends after I relayed PAD's explanation.

Looks like being a comic book writer isn't all glory!

Mark_S

[Sandy Hausler]

From one of my girlfriends after I relayed PAD's explanation.



Mark_S

Uh, how many girlfriedns do you have?

Sandy Hausler

[Mark_S]

I use the term loosely, she is a girl, she is a friend. No romance. She is sort of on the periphery of comics, think of Penny in the Big Bang Theory. There are two girls I know who know enough about comics that I can ask this sort of question and not have to prepare an essay explaining how comics actually work. When comics work that is.

Mark_S

[Nyssane]

So, um... after years of liking She-Hulk yet not reading her book, I finally read issues #22-27 and oah mah gawd, I love it! I read a few issues of She-Hulk in the past but never really continually, but I can totally see myself buying this book monthly (in fact, I subscribed so as to save myself the laziness of going down to the shop if nothing else comes out that week).

What would make She-Hulk better? Poundcakes. (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/poundcakes_pouncy.htm)

[Dagger]

So, um... after years of liking She-Hulk yet not reading her book, I finally read issues #22-27 and oah mah gawd, I love it! I read a few issues of She-Hulk in the past but never really continually, but I can totally see myself buying this book monthly (in fact, I subscribed so as to save myself the laziness of going down to the shop if nothing else comes out that week).

What would make She-Hulk better? [/url=http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/poundcakes_pouncy.htm]Poundcakes.[/url]
Fix the link, betch! I wanna see me some Poundcakes!!!

PAD!!!! GET US SOME ANACONDA & THE B.A.D. GIRLS! PLUS WE NEEDS SOME GRAPPLER ACTION TOO!!!!

[Nyssane]

Fix the link, betch! I wanna see me some Poundcakes!!!

I wrote the appendix entry, *NERD GIGGLE*!!!

[Dagger]

I wrote the appendix entry, *NERD GIGGLE*!!!
LOL. I saw that! You are too awesome!

[Nyssane]

LOL. I saw that! You are too awesome!

Yeah, I know.

PAD if you give us hot sexy Grapplers/BAD Girls/Anaconda/Ruby Thursday, we'll totally do dirty stuff to you that should never be mentioned on a public forum. Involving ice cream and soldering irons. Plus we're two hot sexy chicks. Or dudes, depending on your mood.

[Dagger]

Yeah, I know.

PAD if you give us hot sexy Grapplers/BAD Girls/Anaconda/Ruby Thursday, we'll totally do dirty stuff to you that should never be mentioned on a public forum. Involving ice cream and soldering irons. Plus we're two hot sexy chicks. Or dudes, depending on your mood.
TOTALLY DITTO!I'm a bottom, but I can be a top if you like;)

[Peter David]

So, um... after years of liking She-Hulk yet not reading her book, I finally read issues #22-27 and oah mah gawd, I love it! I read a few issues of She-Hulk in the past but never really continually, but I can totally see myself buying this book monthly (in fact, I subscribed so as to save myself the laziness of going down to the shop if nothing else comes out that week).

What would make She-Hulk better? Poundcakes. (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/poundcakes_pouncy.htm)

Believe it or not, I was actually thinking about Poundcakes, just because her name is exactly the type of name I myself would come up with...

PAD

[Nyssane]

Believe it or not, I was actually thinking about Poundcakes, just because her name is exactly the type of name I myself would come up with...

PAD

You certainly now how to charm. Do me now.

[Dagger]

Believe it or not, I was actually thinking about Poundcakes, just because her name is exactly the type of name I myself would come up with...

PAD
YES PLEASE PAD!!! PLUS BRING IN THE REST OF THE GRAPPLERS!!!!

[Mark_S]

Could be interesting, you have among the Grapperlers Titania and Screaming Mimi (Currently Songbird over in Thunderbolts). I've felt for a while that Titania was close to the redemption point, having a single issue where she is torn between a reformed Grapperlers and the Thunderbolts with Jen caught in the middle would be interesting.

Mark_S

[Nyssane]

Could be interesting, you have among the Grapperlers Titania and Screaming Mimi (Currently Songbird over in Thunderbolts). I've felt for a while that Titania was close to the redemption point, having a single issue where she is torn between a reformed Grapperlers and the Thunderbolts with Jen caught in the middle would be interesting.

Mark_S

That's a different Titania. The original Titania was the leader of the Grapplers, but she died around the time this Titania came around. Letha also died, and Screaming Mimi's Songbird, so... Poundcakes is really the only available Grappler if you're not including the lame recruits from Thing #33.

Titania (Mary) should totally form a Grapplers team, though. She took the original's name, why not her group also? Toss in Poundcakes, Volcana, and a few others, and She-Hulk would have trouble on her hands.

[Mark_S]

That's a different Titania. The original Titania was the leader of the Grapplers, but she died around the time this Titania came around. Letha also died, and Screaming Mimi's Songbird, so... Poundcakes is really the only available Grappler if you're not including the lame recruits from Thing #33.

Titania (Mary) should totally form a Grapplers team, though. She took the original's name, why not her group also? Toss in Poundcakes, Volcana, and a few others, and She-Hulk would have trouble on her hands.

Good point. There should be enough evil women in the MU to form a good team.

Mark_S