What is,in your opinion,the worst thing to happen to Marvel characters lately ?

[comic_lover]

Vote ! :cool:

[twilight]

you could ask me a thousand times and a thousand times the answer would be the fantastic four movie.

All the rumors and bad casting choices have finally destroyed me:black guy from "the green mile" supposedly playing ben,jessica alba(susan storm isn't spanish damnit!!!)ect ect.

mutated business man doom is just another strand on my yarn ball of sorrow. :(

[comic_lover]

you could ask me a thousand times and a thousand times the answer would be the fantastic four movie.

All the rumors and bad casting choices have finally destroyed me:black guy from "the green mile" supposedly playing ben,jessica alba(susan storm isn't spanish damnit!!!)ect ect.

mutated business man doom is just another strand on my yarn ball of sorrow. :( Well,Michael Duncan isn't playing Ben Thank God,he's being played by Michael Chiklis,from the show " The Shield ". Unfortunately Dr. Doom is still written as a businessman that has been mutated by cosmic rays ( with the rest of the FF crew )...and yes,Jessica Alba is still Susan Storm.You should see her picture - she looks like a cheap hooker ! :eek: So sad.

[Ivan Isaacs]

A hard decision between CrapVengers and HypeVengers - but my pick was CrapVengers.

[thetechnocrat]

This is a hard choice. There are so many bad stories going on.
New Avengers is pretty bad since the way it's being lead up to.

Avengers Disassembled is pretty bad in Iron Man, Captain America & Falcon, Fantastic Four & Avengers. I like the stories in Thor & Cap right now.

The whole Fantastic Four movie is looking like it'll be pretty bad. I guess Marvel is throwing the whole origins and character based casting out the window.

Secret War is bad because when only an issue every so often comes out it's pretty hard to keep up with the story or stay interested in it.

Sadly, the worst thing is the cheap Avengers deaths written sloppily by BMB to get to the point of the New Avengers. If the new series is this bad Spidey will be smacking around MJ, Cap will be freebasing & Luke Cage will be a whiny moron. Wolverine will be killed by a stray cab. Spider-woman will dose & get the Sentry to throw a plugged in toaster into the bathtub at the height of White Rabbit. The art & color are awful to boot.

[cmdrbond007]

I'm sick of the new #1s... When you've collected a title for a long period of time, you hate to see it return back to #1... I don't understand why this happened to Captain America. Iron Man... a little bit... with a feature film in the works. If you didn't collect the title before, it's a great time to jump on, but it's a little disappointing for the dedicated collector. At least Hulk is not going back to #1 after The Thing Hard Knocks miniseries.

[Darkoth]

As always,the worst thing about Marvel is still too many mutants runing around.I'm sick of the same "socially relevant" themes again and again.Even beyond the oversaturated mutant universe fun classic characters are forgotten and ignored in favor of lame gun totting mercenaries and psychopaths,all in the name of gritty realism.Gwen Stacey is now a slut and Hawkeye is dead to make room for more film characters on the Avengers.Why,to give Marvel an even more homoginized feel?Marvel's current corporate mentality is predictable and boring as hell,kind of like reality tv.

[Huzzah!]

whats the hole gwen stacy thing? I think i missed that, idont follow spidey regularly now that he is shackled to that dead weight with red hair

[methanolcereal]

The pointless deaths Scott Lang, Jack of Hearts and especially Hawkeye pissed me off a lot. The constant relaunching is annoying, but doesn't bother me too much since I don't regularly pick up the books they constant shaft.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Avengers "Diss-Assembled" has been the biggest load of crap this side of Marvel.God, and they replaced Chuck Austen for this?Talk about sh-t.

Odds are In 1 year or 2 this whole deal will be retconned, Hawkeye will be brought back along with Lang.

[Charagon]

Mark Millar

[Core]

...and yes,Jessica Alba is still Susan Storm.You should see her picture - she looks like a cheap hooker ! :eek: So sad.


You're John Byrne. I knew it.

[Expletive Deleted]

Rob Liefeld is back working on Marvel characters, isn't he?

Kind of hard to top that, I think.

[chicainery]

From the same kinda poll in the DC forum:


Without a doubt, it would have to be ...

... fans who b*tch and moan about every little change like it's the end of the world.

[methanolcereal]

Rob Liefeld is back working on Marvel characters, isn't he?

Kind of hard to top that, I think.
Touche my friend, touche.

[ghostrider666]

I gotta GO with where Marvel has taken the Hulk. Its crap. 2nd would be all the damn reboots.

[Lurker]

Besides Liefield,

Retconning Magneto in Morrison's Planet X; it ruined the main plot line of New X-Men.

Wolverine's prominent membership in a number of the major teams

The Avengers w/o Thor

[cosmicspidey]

Bendis has turned one of my favorite books into one of my least favorite, so I'm dropping it after Epilogue. Disassembled is crap.

[Huzzah!]

retconning magneto had no effect on Morrison's run, it wasnt him to begin with.


Avengers disassembled however is a travesty of ass juice. How many issues are left of this? 1 or 2?

If its one that will be the worst comic since the Kwannon saga

[Ugoff]

retconning magneto had no effect on Morrison's run, it wasnt him to begin with.


Avengers disassembled however is a travesty of ass juice. How many issues are left of this? 1 or 2?

If its one that will be the worst comic since the Kwannon saga


"retconning magneto had no effect on Morrison's run, it wasnt him to begin with". I'm not sure but maybe some dislike the fact that it turned out not to be Magneto but some super sentient micro bacteria that was behind the whole thing. I dunno. Comments, Lurker? I think the constant reboots/revamps are the main problem cuz there the root of all the other problems. Reboots/revamps are how you get events like Avengers Disassembled. I must say I'm actually liking and disliking what Avengers Disassembled could lead to. I'm just not sure about it yet. Althought I'm not buying Avengers at the moment, if a more traditional team doesn't form soon I wont start picking it back up. Too much damn Wolverine isn't helping either.

[comic_lover]

Really good opinions on here guys ! BTW,I'm not John.

[Huzzah!]

Yeah, Morrison shot himself in the foot there. If that wasnt part of the story i would be outraged about Magneto coming back to. But he opened the door and made the story not really matter outside of Jean death number 5,000.

[Lurker]

Yeah, Morrison shot himself in the foot there. If that wasnt part of the story i would be outraged about Magneto coming back to. But he opened the door and made the story not really matter outside of Jean death number 5,000.

What exactly was the "that" in Morrison's story? Did I miss something there? When did Morrison open the door?

[The Shadow]

From the same kinda poll in the DC forum:
Me too.
Change is a GOOD thing! Some of the deaths (like Ant Man or Jack of Hearts) were so TOTALLY insignificant that it shouldn't matter! I remember ages ago when people complained not ENOUGH characters died! Hawkeye will be back... Ant Man and Jack? Meh... won't make salles increase if they DO return... "OH MY GOD! Ant Man is coming BACK!" The stampede of all 3 Ant Man fans might overwhelm the shop owners... for 2 seconds.

Without a doubt, it would have to be ...

... fans who b*tch and moan about every little change like it's the end of the world.

[Huzzah!]

What exactly was the "that" in Morrison's story? Did I miss something there? When did Morrison open the door?

the whole Magneto acting under orders he never understood thing in here comes tommorow

[Lurker]

the whole Magneto acting under orders he never understood thing in here comes tommorow

Here Comes Tomorrow needs cliffnotes I tell ya, but the guy still got his head chopped off by Wolverine in Planet X and if "Magneto" was acting under orders he didn't understand as referenced in the future it was still "Magneto" that went the way of the Highlander villain so whose the "Magneto" in Genosha. Uh-oh, is "Joseph" back?

Maybe I'll change my mind and say the worst thing is writers like Claremount not showing other writers the respect and revelance they show him. That and convoluted mutant continuity.

[Ryan K]

Maybe I'll change my mind and say the worst thing is writers like Claremount not showing other writers the respect and revelance they show him. That and convoluted mutant continuity.

I think Claremont has shown a lot of respect toward other x-writers in X-men: The End.

[psm]

The worse thing to happen?

Messgeboards.

[Siddon]

The worst thing to happen to Marvel (and all comics) is going from 2.25-2.99. Its killing the new generation of Marvel.

[Huzzah!]

Here Comes Tomorrow needs cliffnotes I tell ya, but the guy still got his head chopped off by Wolverine in Planet X and if "Magneto" was acting under orders he didn't understand as referenced in the future it was still "Magneto" that went the way of the Highlander villain so whose the "Magneto" in Genosha. Uh-oh, is "Joseph" back?

Maybe I'll change my mind and say the worst thing is writers like Claremount not showing other writers the respect and revelance they show him. That and convoluted mutant continuity.


No it wasnt magento. It was sublime controlling magneto. You seemed to have missed that bit. It may have been intended to be Magneto's body, but mentally it wasn’t him upstairs so it could be said it "wasn’t" magneto. And if it's already the case that it’s "not magneto" why leave it as such. Magneto basically is only present in body in this, hardly a crucial aspect to the story. It's certainly apt for a retcon.


As per Claremont not showing other writers respect that is just childish quite frankly. If Claremont brining back Magneto isn’t respectful, then what Morrison did wasn’t respectful either, and if that's the case why should he respect others who don’t respect him? This kills me about the Morrison rulez elite. If a change comes along and someone doesn’t like it, yet they do, it's all "this is new, yours is old blah blah blah. Screw continuity for story sake," what have you despite the older posters saying that they dislike it. Yet something comes along that changes something they like and suddenly they are making the same arguments they put down previously. Fascinating.

[sixstringguild]

I don't mind heroes dying, the FF movie, new Avengers...whatever. Change is good and more than likely the change will be changed back to the "old" someday. What bothers me are the prices for comics now. That and the fact that there are too many xbooks and they're not that good (outside of Astonishing)...

oh yeah, and because no one mentioned it, Chuck Austen...

[Ugoff]

I don't mind heroes dying, the FF movie, new Avengers...whatever. Change is good and more than likely the change will be changed back to the "old" someday. What bothers me are the prices for comics now. That and the fact that there are too many xbooks and they're not that good (outside of Astonishing)...

oh yeah, and because no one mentioned it, Chuck Austen...

I almost forgot about the price of books now a days. I cringe everytime I see 2.99 on the cover of a book. I forgot about the amount of crap filled xbooks and Chuck Austen too. Thanks for reminding me.

[Ugoff]

No it wasnt magento. It was sublime controlling magneto. You seemed to have missed that bit. It may have been intended to be Magneto's body, but mentally it wasn’t him upstairs so it could be said it "wasn’t" magneto. And if it's already the case that it’s "not magneto" why leave it as such. Magneto basically is only present in body in this, hardly a crucial aspect to the story. It's certainly apt for a retcon.

Why didn't Morrison just say that Sublime made a clone of Magneto and be done with. He stashed Mags in a cave near the top of Mt. Everest. Mags was in a cyrogenic stasis chamber. Simple as that. Now explaining how Mags escaped and wound up all happy go lucky in Genosha w/ Charles would be the next mystery s/l to entice fans. Maybe? :D U like?

[Huzzah!]

Well the way its being told now is probably the best way to do it, Magneto survived Genosha sorta withdrew into himself, and as his powers started being used less and less he leveled out.

Of course this is mostly inferred so i can see why some fans have a problem with it since it isnt laid out.

Personally i htink they should kill this magneto too and retcon it back to Xmen 3 Magneto.

[Meatmunk]

I have to choose the return of Colossus.

Why? People love him. He's great.

True, and I liked him a lot too, but the fact that Marvel cheesed out and brought him back really just ticks me off.

Despite the fact that Uncanny #390 wasn't the best written, in the end, I still actually cried when he died. And the follow up issue where Kitty spreads his ashes, I cried. I was moved, I was saddened.

Now it was all cheapened. They decided to concoct some lame excuse and bring him back. I don't care how well written or emotionally realistic the story is where he returns. It is the fact that he returned at all that ticks me off. I had an emotional attachment to those stories. They meant something. That meaning is now lost because people won't let go.

[Siddon]

I thought his return was better then his death.

[Ugoff]

I thought his return was better then his death.

I agree sort of. The storyline concerning his death was ok in it's intention but it just pissed me off that Marvel was again in a way "revamping" the book. I know that's probably not the case but I think I was so over the whole revamp crap Marvel likes to go throught each few months that I lost it. His return while kinda lame, is actually really cool. I think instead of deciding "Oh let's kill so and so in this s/l", they should try and also think of a plausible/interesting way to bring the character back after awhile. It happens all the time on soaps. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

[Fnaz23]

To answer the question of the thread Unsatisfied Fanboys

Me too.
Change is a GOOD thing! Some of the deaths (like Ant Man or Jack of Hearts) were so TOTALLY insignificant that it shouldn't matter! I remember ages ago when people complained not ENOUGH characters died! Hawkeye will be back... Ant Man and Jack? Meh... won't make sales increase if they DO return... "OH MY GOD! Ant Man is coming BACK!" The stampede of all 3 Ant Man fans might overwhelm the shop owners... for 2 seconds.

RFLMAO

[Lurker]

No it wasnt magento. It was sublime controlling magneto. You seemed to have missed that bit. It may have been intended to be Magneto's body, but mentally it wasn’t him upstairs so it could be said it "wasn’t" magneto. And if it's already the case that it’s "not magneto" why leave it as such. Magneto basically is only present in body in this, hardly a crucial aspect to the story. It's certainly apt for a retcon.


As per Claremont not showing other writers respect that is just childish quite frankly. If Claremont brining back Magneto isn’t respectful, then what Morrison did wasn’t respectful either, and if that's the case why should he respect others who don’t respect him? This kills me about the Morrison rulez elite. If a change comes along and someone doesn’t like it, yet they do, it's all "this is new, yours is old blah blah blah. Screw continuity for story sake," what have you despite the older posters saying that they dislike it. Yet something comes along that changes something they like and suddenly they are making the same arguments they put down previously. Fascinating.

Okay, so if it was Sublime controlling Magneto, who the hell sewed his head back on? Is the Magneto in Excalibur a clone with the "real" Magneto's conscience? Inquiring minds really want to know.

And, uh, he-he, I totally agree with you about Claremont being childish
:D . . .especially when he quit the X-Men back in the early 90s. I'm not a Morrision elite and I don't really think he cares what another writer does on a work for hire project once he's gone. BUT, the 12-year old kid who comes in my shop does. It is my opinion, and I could be wrong (I don't know the guy personally), that Clarmont does not care about the 12 year old boy, and I'm losing sales because of it.

[Huzzah!]

That body was Xorneto (Xorn). Even then It doesnt matter who it was, at the end of the day its just a puppet, be it the easter bunny or santa clause.

And Claremont isnt being childish. Im just saying that if you think he is, then by that same token so was morrison.

As per 12 year old boys im sure there are some who hated Morrison too so who really cares quite frankly. You cant make everyone happy.

[ChoasMAC]

Here Comes Tomorrow needs cliffnotes I tell ya, but the guy still got his head chopped off by Wolverine in Planet X and if "Magneto" was acting under orders he didn't understand as referenced in the future it was still "Magneto" that went the way of the Highlander villain so whose the "Magneto" in Genosha. Uh-oh, is "Joseph" back?

Maybe I'll change my mind and say the worst thing is writers like Claremount not showing other writers the respect and revelance they show him. That and convoluted mutant continuity.



Thankyou Kurker you are my new god !!!!!! I thought no one would say it!!! :eek:

[Ryan K]

Gotta say, I think Claremont is ten times more new-reader-friendly than Morrison ever was.

[ChoasMAC]

Okay, so if it was Sublime controlling Magneto, who the hell sewed his head back on? Is the Magneto in Excalibur a clone with the "real" Magneto's conscience? Inquiring minds really want to know.

And, uh, he-he, I totally agree with you about Claremont being childish
:D . . .especially when he quit the X-Men back in the early 90s. I'm not a Morrision elite and I don't really think he cares what another writer does on a work for hire project once he's gone. BUT, the 12-year old kid who comes in my shop does. It is my opinion, and I could be wrong (I don't know the guy personally), that Clarmont does not care about the 12 year old boy, and I'm losing sales because of it.

Sorry to interject in debate just wanted to add few things and they are going to be hard to say. I was speaking with a friend(only comic loving friend I have) and we agreed that Claremonts writing feels "old" for complete lack of a better word. It's not that the writing is dated, just the cliches and types of characters he perfers or creates in x universe. This is totally opinion from us, we follow a "newer" style,or "SHOCK" writers as they have be called by some. Not all writers we enjoy are of the "shock" persuasion, but we feel that they inovate in a sometimes stagnating universe. Claremont, we feel, does not inovate anymore. HE did! don't get me wrong! His storys just don't feel the same now, one exception seems to be X men The End. It is not in continuity. The Hidden Years.. based in the past. They are the only works we feel we enjoyed from him. So thus we sumerized, in our opinion, that he isn't right for the current core books. Expecialy with Milligan signing up, us loser fanboys feel he should just move on. but hey he sells books, and X-men needs to claim the #1 spot again, so #$%*& it. Any one agree, it was a fun conversation and had to post Ideas.

[Lurker]

so who really cares quite frankly

The guys that order from Diamond who deal with Marvel. Those guys in turn listen to the dudes with the wallets that pay the guy's rent and keep his business a float. The "guys" I'm referring to are the retailers, and the "dudes" are the kids that buy the books.

And when you go from selling 20 issues of Excalibur one month to 5 the next, you tend to get the message pretty clear. This eventually leads back up the food chain. Bottom line is if you don't produce a product the majority of your target audience enjoys its simply not going to sell and business as a whole suffers.

Claremont is not the majority's choice anymore and when a writer makes the kind of choice like he did the whole line losses the confidence and trust of the audience. If he would have waited awhile it would have come off a lot better; the business works in cycles with a pretty decent turnover of new readership hence the reboots every couple of years. But, if you disillusion a newer reader, like the 12 year old, he's likely to get fed up and move unto another medium of interest rather than just drop the title in favor of another like most of the guys on this board who've been reading comics for awhile.

The X & Spidey movies bring in a lot of kids and if we can't keep 'em with the way tech is progressing nowadays . . .

[Lurker]

Sorry to interject in debate just wanted to add few things and they are going to be hard to say. I was speaking with a friend(only comic loving friend I have) and we agreed that Claremonts writing feels "old" for complete lack of a better word. It's not that the writing is dated, just the cliches and types of characters he perfers or creates in x universe. This is totally opinion from us, we follow a "newer" style,or "SHOCK" writers as they have be called by some. Not all writers we enjoy are of the "shock" persuasion, but we feel that they inovate in a sometimes stagnating universe. Claremont, we feel, does not inovate anymore. HE did! don't get me wrong! His storys just don't feel the same now, one exception seems to be X men The End. It is not in continuity. The Hidden Years.. based in the past. They are the only works we feel we enjoyed from him. So thus we sumerized, in our opinion, that he isn't right for the current core books. Expecialy with Milligan signing up, us loser fanboys feel he should just move on. but hey he sells books, and X-men needs to claim the #1 spot again, so #$%*& it. Any one agree, it was a fun conversation and had to post Ideas.

I agree. Innovation is the mother of invention.

[Lurker]

Gotta say, I think Claremont is ten times more new-reader-friendly than Morrison ever was.


Too bad there's not a new X-Movie to bring newbies in this year.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

And when you go from selling 20 issues of Excalibur one month to 5 the next, you tend to get the message pretty clear. This eventually leads back up the food chain. Bottom line is if you don't produce a product the majority of your target audience enjoys its simply not going to sell and business as a whole suffers


Jesus thats a 15 Issue drop! I never Imagined the book was that "unpopular"I knew I dropped the book and my Comic shop guy said he was really cuting orders on It.

I just have a question , with all the sh-t Chuck Austen gets, has ever had a book where the general consious say "Its boring and sucks?"Then drop It asap this fast?


Lurker , do you think Excalibur will make It past 12 Issues with sales like that?

[Huzzah!]

First off do the people come up to you and complain about the whole Morrison magneto thing? Can you say concretely that is the problem? I suspect a least some of those people who bought it knew going in they weren’t going to like it. People on these boards who hate Claremont checked at least the first issue out. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone people dropped it for Magneto. But, you see, you can’t pander to everyone. If you pandered to an audience about everything Morrison’s entire run never would have happened.

Your drop off of readers is high, but looking at diamond it dropped from the first issue’s index of around 93.3 or some such, down to low 80-high 70s. That is hardly I would say a huge drop off. I suspect it will settle around high 60s. That’s hardly surprising. A book about Xavier and Magneto isn’t what gets 12 year old ancey in their pants.

As per Claremont not being the majority’s choice, well you quite frankly aren’t in a position to say that. Clearly uncanny is better off than with Austen. And despite this whole Revolution sucks crap on message boards the numbers were consistent during that time period. Remember Xmen didn’t dip under 100thousand copies a month until Morrison took over, his run only getting out of that because of the planet X reveal and Marc Silvestri.

This thread is about what marvel did that went wrong. Not Claremont sucks. Now, let’s remember this. Do you honestly think those kids who dropped Excalibur did so because of Magneto? Or do you think it’s just as likely perhaps they didn’t like the writing style. Or didn’t like the team. Is Magneto the catchall?

Certainly not. There is more to the book than just Magneto which one might find objectionable. Who knows, maybe they didn’t like the artist. Those who dropped it dropped it for a lot of reasons

Kids lured into X-comics because of the movies most certainly are going to go for the wolverine comic, not the comic about two old guys. hey maybe we should just kill all the characters and put wolverine in the teams

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Kids lured into X-comics because of the movies most certainly are going to go for the wolverine comic, not the comic about two old guys. hey maybe we should just kill all the characters and put wolverine in the teams


Isn't that what Marvel's doing with Avengers now?Killing off a bunch of members to make Wolverine on there?Hell I could see It now...


Editor: "Ok kill Freakshow,Callistro, and that guy!"


Writer: "Ok but who's joining the team then?Angel?Paige?"


Editor: "WOLVERINE baby!He sells to kids and we need sales!"

[Huzzah!]

Indeed. Thats why its a cop out. Im sure you could get kids wanting to read excalibur by sticking wolverine into Excalibur, and despite what i would imagine would be a sales boost its not the right move artistically.

[Jake V]

But why bother to put out a comic that the kids have no interest in?

[Lurker]

Jesus thats a 15 Issue drop! I never Imagined the book was that "unpopular"I knew I dropped the book and my Comic shop guy said he was really cuting orders on It.

I just have a question , with all the sh-t Chuck Austen gets, has ever had a book where the general consious say "Its boring and sucks?"Then drop It asap this fast?


Lurker , do you think Excalibur will make It past 12 Issues with sales like that?

Chuck Austin-He's not really hurting X-Men all that much, with a title like that a lot of people pick it up for completest sake. Same with JLA, but its a different story, at least in my shop with Action but that's probally due to Jim Lee being on the main book. X-Men does sell the lowest out of the 4 main titles though (Astonishing, Uncanny and Ultimate).

Of course Excalibur will make it past 12 issues, but it and New X-Men will fall ever deeper down the sales chart over the next two years until eventually Marvel will cancel them to try something else.

[Ivan Isaacs]

I hope that "New X-Men" will have a pretty huge run - next to "Distrixt X" it's my favorite X-Book - and "New Mutants" and "Generation X" both proofed that titles with younger mutants CAN work.

[Lurker]

First off do the people come up to you and complain about the whole Morrison magneto thing? Can you say concretely that is the problem? I suspect a least some of those people who bought it knew going in they weren’t going to like it. People on these boards who hate Claremont checked at least the first issue out. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone people dropped it for Magneto. But, you see, you can’t pander to everyone. If you pandered to an audience about everything Morrison’s entire run never would have happened.

Your drop off of readers is high, but looking at diamond it dropped from the first issue’s index of around 93.3 or some such, down to low 80-high 70s. That is hardly I would say a huge drop off. I suspect it will settle around high 60s. That’s hardly surprising. A book about Xavier and Magneto isn’t what gets 12 year old ancey in their pants.

As per Claremont not being the majority’s choice, well you quite frankly aren’t in a position to say that. Clearly uncanny is better off than with Austen. And despite this whole Revolution sucks crap on message boards the numbers were consistent during that time period. Remember Xmen didn’t dip under 100thousand copies a month until Morrison took over, his run only getting out of that because of the planet X reveal and Marc Silvestri.

This thread is about what marvel did that went wrong. Not Claremont sucks. Now, let’s remember this. Do you honestly think those kids who dropped Excalibur did so because of Magneto? Or do you think it’s just as likely perhaps they didn’t like the writing style. Or didn’t like the team. Is Magneto the catchall?

Certainly not. There is more to the book than just Magneto which one might find objectionable. Who knows, maybe they didn’t like the artist. Those who dropped it dropped it for a lot of reasons

Kids lured into X-comics because of the movies most certainly are going to go for the wolverine comic, not the comic about two old guys. hey maybe we should just kill all the characters and put wolverine in the teams

Yes, people came up to me and complained and those people dropped the book because they didn't like anything that was going on in it, most of all Magneto's throwaway resurrection. Marvel went wrong by letting Claremont go in the direction he did. And you want people reading Wolverine to want to read Excalibur too. That doesn't mean putting Wolverine in EXcalibur though.

More on this later . . . its twenty till 10 and its new comic day . . .

[Steve Rogers]

The truth is if the company can't keep up its sales then the reader suffers. But then if they try to hard to brign in new readers, the reader still suffers. MArvel needs to find a healthy mid ground everyone can enjoy.

Astonighing X-men in my opinion is the best thing at marvel right now.

The only reason why secret war pisses me off is becuase its so spread out and late but its sooooo good. I think its great comic.

Marvel needs to start taking some risks and not playing everything so safe.. like with their all star team in New Avengers. Some of it might also be the characters are geting over used and they might be running out of ideas. Some of these character have been used for almost 40 years, atleast once a month.

[Ryan K]

Yes, people came up to me and complained and those people dropped the book because they didn't like anything that was going on in it, most of all Magneto's throwaway resurrection. Marvel went wrong by letting Claremont go in the direction he did. And you want people reading Wolverine to want to read Excalibur too. That doesn't mean putting Wolverine in EXcalibur though.

More on this later . . . its twenty till 10 and its new comic day . . .

I thought Magneto's return was not Claremont's idea, but was a straight from Marvel bigwigs. Claremont just got the chore of doing the actual honors.

[ChoasMAC]

:o I thought Magneto's return was not Claremont's idea, but was a straight from Marvel bigwigs. Claremont just got the chore of doing the actual honors.

Hey if thats true , than sucks to X-editors too. People complain about ressurections because of moves like this. At least they gave sans Colussus Xmen a shot for awile, and then brought him back in the best way imaginable. Magneto's was like a fart.. quickand stinky. Also want to shout out to Lurker for comenting on my "idea" yesterday. Wish more people would comment though.

[Yusaku Jon III]

It would have to be the constant rebooting for me. It ultimately chased me away from X-books within the past few years, but it's obviously industry-wide (not just found in Marvel comics). A change is needed every now and then to gain the interest of new audiences, but when it happens so often that it seems like everyone is pissing in everyone else's glass, the characters affected seem to lose that sense of identity.

Because of this trend, I'm now very reluctant to pick up anything current. The exceptions may be for what few stories stand out for their artistic qualities or how well the story is written compared to the other issues published at the time. Outside of that, I stick with the Essentials and let the kids enjoy what's put out these days.

[Huzzah!]

Yes, people came up to me and complained and those people dropped the book because they didn't like anything that was going on in it, most of all Magneto's throwaway resurrection. Marvel went wrong by letting Claremont go in the direction he did. And you want people reading Wolverine to want to read Excalibur too. That doesn't mean putting Wolverine in EXcalibur though.

More on this later . . . its twenty till 10 and its new comic day . . .

So everyone who dropped Excalibur not even told you why, but said specifically it was because of Magneto. Regardless thats just one store, if anyhting variety is the spice of life and i would speculate that there are just as many, if not more who like the change.


For instance the drop off rate of Excalibur seems step at your store. However on average percentage wise more people dropped Astonishing after its first issue. Even then its recent issue only jumped because of a resurrection.

This is the same goofy ass reasoning that always pop up when people say CC is a faliure of past his prime and people dont like him. He sure does sell alot of comics though. You may not like him. Your friends may not like him, but peopel obviously do.

I dont read wolverine, i will check out millar but i doubt he will keep me on past the first arc. I dont want Excalibur to be more like wolverine. They have two different audiences.

If you want every comic to be the same, then what can i say? CC has never did what every other writer does, i doubt he will start now.

[Lurker]

Huzzah!, I apologize if you took what I posted about Claremont personally. A lot of guys were upset with the direction they perceived he is taking the merry mutants in resurrecting such a major player in the X-Verse so soon after a major storyarc in which he apparently meet a very graphic demise. Besides that, the casual #1 issue speculator just didn't like the book. Again, sorry. Also, if the decision really did come down from the big wigs, I pronounce him innnocent of all charges! :)

However, as much as you and others in fandom enjoy his writing, there is probally an equal amount who don't. That's just a fact, some people prefer Morrison, some Whedon. Hell, Chuck Austin might even have his own little X-cult by now. Imagine that!

Also, no took books should be the same. Redundacy sucks. What I said about Wolverine and Excalibur is that both books should have qualities to a particualr reader that he would what to pick them both up.

[comic_lover]

I thought Magneto's return was not Claremont's idea, but was a straight from Marvel bigwigs. Claremont just got the chore of doing the actual honors. Marvel was going to bring the character back any way,because of X-Men 3 ( where Colossus plays a more prominent role ) ,so yeah,it was the bigwigs...but I'm glad Claremont was the one to do it. :)

[jade_nova]

I don't understand Dissassembled. It was built up to be this huge event and then Bendis ruins it in part two by having the characters standing around talking about what just happened in part one.

[Cephus]

Of the choices available, I had to go with that whole Sins Past crap, but I think the biggest problem isn't new, it's the 'death is meaningless' crap that litters Marvel comics.

Dead is dead already! If you're not willing to keep 'em dead, don't kill 'em in the first place!

[bd2999]

The latest Fantastic Four, I think it was the Rising Storm arc. Such a bad and terrible ending. Took a force of the universe and made him look like no big deal.

[hangmanjury]

THe sad thing is I cannot comment because, even when you put the bad reviews and such aside, there is NOTHING that Marvel is putting out - and I really mean nothing - that doesn't make me close the comic after a quick scan through the first half. All of their products turn me off for some reason or another these days.

Hopefully Neil Gaiman's project will change that.

[TheMuertoCorpse]

Juan Bobillo drawing the She-hulk.

[mastaflan]

The character Limbo of some really good characters. LIke the Trapster, Exodus, and welll atleast all my 3rd stringers..

[nubly]

for me, it would be the constantly complaning fanboys

[Neolucifer]

Wow i must say i wasnt displeased by any of the events of the poll .
-I could enjoy Disassembled , even if flawed on some level .
-I bear no grudges about the dead avengers.
-I'm happy with the new team
-I enjoyed Secret War . Just unhappy about its release time .
-I loved Thor since the start of the whole "Lord of Asgard" saga and then Ragnarok .
-Some reboots , like Captain America V5 were awesome . Without the announce of a new #1 , i probably wouldnt have checked what was happening with that character i often disliked , and then notice the new creative team .
- I enjoyed Sin past and it giving a possibility of dealing maybe once and for all with peter being haunted by gwen at the expense of MJ .
-the hulk ... mmm i dunno , i havent followed Hulk lately .

Overall i'm quite satisfied with the late Marvel . If i had a complain it would be delays for too many titles

[Artemis1]

Sins Past. That was NOT Gwen.

[Ugoff]

for me, it would be the constantly complaning fanboys

When someone is spending between 30 and 50 dollars a month on comics they have a right to complain. Also these kinds of threads probably arent your thing so it's probably best you just avoid them. It's just a suggestion. I think the most disappointing thing wrong with Marvel are the constant reboots/revamps. Also almost everything X-Men related has been pretty awful ever since Morrison s run(what was that like 2 or 3 years ago, his first issue on X-Men?).

[Mister Mets]

Avengers "Diss-Assembled" has been the biggest load of crap this side of Marvel.God, and they replaced Chuck Austen for this?Talk about sh-t.

Odds are In 1 year or 2 this whole deal will be retconned, Hawkeye will be brought back along with Lang.

See sales of New Avengers. It ain't gonna be retconned.

However, I felt Hawkeye's death was the worst thing to happen to Marvel lately.
No one believed it was permanent (hell, it's so easy to explain), Hawkeye fans got upset, and it didn't shock anyone. It was just badly managed.

Another bad thing Marvel's done recently is retconning Magneto in New X-Men as an imposter. I believe Morrison's New X-Men run will still be reprinted years from now, allowing generations of fans to feel ripped off.

[The Shadow]

... the internet.

[Neolucifer]

Another bad thing Marvel's done recently is retconning Magneto in New X-Men as an imposter. I believe Morrison's New X-Men run will still be reprinted years from now, allowing generations of fans to feel ripped off.

You could say the same about what others might think of Morrison's Magneto :D

[Cephus]

When someone is spending between 30 and 50 dollars a month on comics they have a right to complain. Also these kinds of threads probably arent your thing so it's probably best you just avoid them. It's just a suggestion. I think the most disappointing thing wrong with Marvel are the constant reboots/revamps. Also almost everything X-Men related has been pretty awful ever since Morrison s run(what was that like 2 or 3 years ago, his first issue on X-Men?).

$30-50 a month is nothing to Marvel. They make a heck of a lot more than that, so they are certainly not obligated to listen to someone who buys a couple comics every month.

The only thing you can do is stop buying, and if enough people have the same opinion and stop buying, the overall market pressure will make Marvel change, or go out of business.

[Beastfan07]

Avengers Disassembeld, deaths, and New Avengers

[nubly]

[QUOTE=Ugoff]When someone is spending between 30 and 50 dollars a month on comics QUOTE]

then they should stop buying the issues they dislike so they wont complain

[Dazzler]

... the internet.
*snicker* so true.

but seriously.

Wolverine. everywhere.

someone...
please...
make it stop.

Orson Scott Card opening his mouth to reveal he is, indeed, an idiot.

oh yeah, and they killed Northstar (sorta).
--Dazz

[Ugoff]

[QUOTE=Ugoff]When someone is spending between 30 and 50 dollars a month on comics QUOTE]

then they should stop buying the issues they dislike so they wont complain

true but some people cant do that cuz Marvel has them so addicted or their waiting for the title/titles to improve. Also some one may drop a few books but still be spending quite alot of money on other books that they are enjoying.

[Dazzler]

[QUOTE=nubly]

true but some people cant do that cuz Marvel has them so addicted or their waiting for the title/titles to improve. Also some one may drop a few books but still be spending quite alot of money on other books that they are enjoying.

it's not really my style to stay loyal to a book that's sucking for air, but some people do, and that's their right. therefore i say, if someon'e paying for something, they have the right to complain if they don't like it.

not that it makes sense to ME. ;) but they are paying for it.

--Dazz

[Disintegrating Clone]

"Sins Past. That was NOT Gwen"

I think you're right. If any story is going to be wiped out in a future retcon, it's this one.

Sins Past was awful because the plot started out so well, and then fell apart so badly. A mini-clone saga.

[mastaflan]

for me, it would be the constantly complaning fanboys


It is the Fanboy that puts money in the pockets of these Marvel People...Fan Boys are the best thing that ever happened to comics because they live off of us. Complaining is okay...its the whining that bugs...

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'd have to say that Avengers Disassembled was the first time I'd actually given a flying fox about the Avengers in a good many years. The best, and in some cases hopefully definitive way, to get rid of so many cheesy, unuseable, badly out of date concepts and characters, and finally creat an Avengers series which isn't permanently trapped in the 1960s.

About bloody time!

[ChoasMAC]

Sins Past. That was NOT Gwen.

Just my personal opinion, so put your gun down purists... :rolleyes:

Excalibur, That is NOT Magneto. He is dead in my eyes. ;)

[Alan2099]

Sins Past. That was NOT Gwen.
Of course it's not. The whole storyline is just an elaborate plot by Mysterio. :D

Excalibur, That is NOT Magneto. He is dead in my eyes. ;)
That's ... umm... also a plot by Mysterio. :o

[Forefinger]

I voted for Bruce Jones' Hulk. He made me drop the Hulk. I'd been collecting non-stop since the Hulk was grey and living in Las Vegas. I don't know how many years that was, but my Hulk stack is quite high. I hate Bruce Jones. Now the horrible art by Lee Weeks is keeping me from wanting to buy the title now that Peter David is writing it again. I guess I'll just never get back into Hulk.

[Sandy Hausler]

you could ask me a thousand times and a thousand times the answer would be the fantastic four movie.

All the rumors and bad casting choices have finally destroyed me:black guy from "the green mile" supposedly playing ben,jessica alba(susan storm isn't spanish damnit!!!)ect ect.

mutated business man doom is just another strand on my yarn ball of sorrow. :(

I think judgment should be reserved until the film is seen. (Not that I am making any pre-judgment on it.)

Sandy Hausler

[idwfan]

The father of Gwens kids is.... what the hell! That was the worst piece of a storttelling I have seen in a while.

[1HELLBOY]

everybody that bitches and moans about somethin thats over and done with

now before everybody pounces, i just want to elaborate: stating opinions in a professional, formal way, thats great, go for it; complaining, thats ok, but it does get a little annoying after awhile; whining, just stop, ok people, it's all not that bad anyway, i still don't see what the problem with it was....but THAT statement doesn't mean i want it explained to me either.

all those choices on the poll i have absolutely NO problem with, not one thing on there i'm angry/dissappointed/perturbed/ or miffed about

P.S. I think the FF movie is gonna be awesome!!!!

[Dark Soul # 7]

The organic webshooters and spidertelepathy, to me that is a WTF thing and not in the good way.

[Forefinger]

The organic webshooters and spidertelepathy, to me that is a WTF thing and not in the good way.
WTF? MU, regular Spiderman has organic webshooters like in the movie, and now telepathy? Tell me what I missed please.

[SuperJ]

I'd say the worst thing to happen to a Marvel character already has...and that's the wonderful new She-Who that all fans and the NY times seemed to love but which couldn't last longer than Mystique...which got NO praise, by the way, despite being a better book on practically every level.

I'd be very happy when another writer/artist team are allowed a chance with She-Hulk and the present She-Who gets justifiably retconned straight outta here.

If Dan Slott or any of his supporters wish to embark upon personal attacks against me for saying that then that's their business (certainly hasn't stopped Mr. Slott before, both here and elsewhere) but that doesn't in any way devalue or nullify the message.

[Sandy Hausler]

I'd say the worst thing to happen to a Marvel character already has...and that's the wonderful new She-Who that all fans and the NY times seemed to love but which couldn't last longer than Mystique...which got NO praise, by the way, despite being a better book on practically every level.

I'd be very happy when another writer/artist team are allowed a chance with She-Hulk and the present She-Who gets justifiably retconned straight outta here.

If Dan Slott or any of his supporters wish to embark upon personal attacks against me for saying that then that's their business (certainly hasn't stopped Mr. Slott before, both here and elsewhere) but that doesn't in any way devalue or nullify the message.

I certainly wouldn't want to personally attack you, although I disagree with you. I find the She-Hulk book to be a lot of fun. He should check with a lawyer before deliving too much into the law, though. Hope this post was respectful enough.<g>

Sandy Hausler

[Neolucifer]

I like the book , i'll just agree that Byrne's run was better . Slott's she-hulk is good , even if the "mcbeal" feel of the first issues scared me .

[Tobias March]

I'd have to say that Avengers Disassembled was the first time I'd actually given a flying fox about the Avengers in a good many years. The best, and in some cases hopefully definitive way, to get rid of so many cheesy, unuseable, badly out of date concepts and characters, and finally creat an Avengers series which isn't permanently trapped in the 1960s.

About bloody time!

:D

In fact wasn't that long speech by Hawkeye in the middle in effect saying the reason all these 'bad things', were happening the fact that they themselves as a team were outmoded as a concept?

[Shellhead]

:D

In fact wasn't that long speech by Hawkeye in the middle in effect saying the reason all these 'bad things', were happening the fact that they themselves as a team were outmoded as a concept?

No, that was Bendis talking while Hawkeye's lips appeared to be moving.

[Tobias March]

Cheers now I have this mental image of Bendis as a ventriloquist with a Hawkeye dummy sitting in his lap, cotton legs swinging from side to side...

:(

[SuperJ]

I certainly wouldn't want to personally attack you, although I disagree with you. I find the She-Hulk book to be a lot of fun. He should check with a lawyer before deliving too much into the law, though. Hope this post was respectful enough.<g>

Sandy Hausler

Thanks. Believe me, it's nice to have a discussion here with someone who doesn't launch into off-topic personal attacks at the drop of a hat as is the tendency for the writer of the book you have mentioned. ;)

[Gaz]

Thanks. Believe me, it's nice to have a discussion here with someone who doesn't launch into off-topic personal attacks at the drop of a hat as is the tendency for the writer of the book you have mentioned. ;)
If you and he always argue so much, perhaps you should just ignore one another?
And is your problem with this version that she changes back to Jen at all, or that she spends a significant portion of time like that? Other posts seem to suggest that as the core of the problem.

[Dan_Slott]

I'd say the worst thing to happen to a Marvel character already has...and that's the wonderful new She-Who that all fans and the NY times seemed to love but which couldn't last longer than Mystique...which got NO praise, by the way, despite being a better book on practically every level.

First, I am a BIG fan of BKV's work-- and I am in AWE of how he produces so much QUALITY product a month. Never miss an issue of either RUNAWAYS or EX MACHINA! And consider both MYSTIQUE and Y: THE LAST MAN two of the best books in the industry.

Second, um... I'm proud of the fact that the NY TIMES and many fans like the the SHE-HULK book. Thanks for spreading the word. This is quite a change for you-- in the past you used to run around the net going on-and-on about how since WIZARD liked SHE-HULK (putting practically every issue of its entire first season in its PICKS column)... as if that was WHY people SHOULDN'T like it. And now you're picking on the NEW YORK TIMES? Okay...

If Dan Slott or any of his supporters wish to embark upon personal attacks against me for saying that then that's their business (certainly hasn't stopped Mr. Slott before, both here and elsewhere) but that doesn't in any way devalue or nullify the message.

I stand by the statements I made-- most of which were accurate descriptions of your behavior-- and links to things that you had written and posted on line.

And I find it oddly hypocritical that YOU would make this kind of argument-- when in the past you have made GROSS character assassinations against me-- frequently calling into question my integrity AND insinuating that I'm a liar. As well as making lewd and off color comments about both myself and my fellow SHE-HULK collaborators.

[Jake V]

Let it go Dan, be the bigger man here.

[Brian R]

Let it go Dan, be the bigger man here.

CBR Law dictates that I must disagree with Jake, therefor I say go get 'em Dan, make him eat dirt! ;)

[Paradox]

Fever goes by the book:

CBR Law dictates that I must disagree with Jake, therefor I say go get 'em Dan, make him eat dirt! ;)

Yeah, but, isn't this where the FAQ says I'm supposed to call you "Kangy" and make a rude Italian gesture? :p

Law to the letter...

[Gaz]

Dan, he wants YOU to look like the bad guy here, don't get drawn in. Just create a thinly veiled version of him in the next issue of She-Hulk, or GLA, or Thing. Then have Ben, Jen or Bertha beat him to a pulp. :p

[Brian R]

Yeah, but, isn't this where the FAQ says I'm supposed to call you "Kangy" and make a rude Italian gesture? :p

Law to the letter...

Hey, I am Italian! *Makes ultra-rude gesture at Dox for using the term "Kangy"*

[SuperJ]

If you and he always argue so much, perhaps you should just ignore one another?
And is your problem with this version that she changes back to Jen at all, or that she spends a significant portion of time like that? Other posts seem to suggest that as the core of the problem.

I do have him on auto-ignore. I only recently learned he was back to his old act again by way of another person's post in another thread. I could care less where he posts, he seems to have this persecution-complex going where if he goes to any site and sees any negative post by me at all (up to, and including, a site I co-modded that was opposed to his version of She-Hulk) he rolls around on the ground and acts like he got kicked in the nuts. It's ridiculous and if other people want to buy what he's selling then that's their business. I just ignore the ****bag.

As for the character, yeah, I think it's both things you mentioned. I'm not a big fan of any part of what he's done with SH and I think he's had more than his chance with that particular character and I'd like so see another Marvel writer/artist get a chance. I don't even care how they do it. I'm just tired of She-Slott and hearing Dan Slott, himself, bitch and moan about how bad he's been treated by yours truly while he's constantly stabbing me in the back, evidently, at every turn while doing it.

[SuperJ]

CBR Law dictates that I must disagree with Jake, therefor I say go get 'em Dan, make him eat dirt! ;)

Yeah, I'm really eating a lot of dirt here by trying to stay on topic on these threads while the "bigger man" resorts to every underhanded trick he can, every off-topic personal attack he can, and digging up every bit of dirt on me he can. If Dan Slott is such a "great and wonderful" guy at these conventions, as he says he is, you'd never know it by reading any of his posts. He cannot even deal with the fact that one person doesn't like his writing without launching into direct personal attacks.

Yeah, I don't like his writing. I don't even like him. If that's too much for some people's fragile world to bear then how is that my problem?

[SuperJ]

Dan, he wants YOU to look like the bad guy here, don't get drawn in. Just create a thinly veiled version of him in the next issue of She-Hulk, or GLA, or Thing. Then have Ben, Jen or Bertha beat him to a pulp. :p

No. I don't want him to look like anything.

He's been on auto-ignore since about a month ago and that's not really looking too likely to change here. As for creating straw-men of his critics, I don't put that past Dan Slott's current level of maturity and tact. If the only way for him to deal with problems is to burn people in effigy (as in another less than "enlightened" country) then that's his business, and that of his mob.

[SuperJ]

Juan Bobillo drawing the She-hulk.

I'll agree with that.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Other:

The Farcical, goofy, but not-quite-funny writing of the She-hulk book.
Northstar was killed.
Mystique was cancelled, without a relaunch in sight.
Monica Rambeau seemingly lost another codename.

[SuperJoe]

I chose the reboots but actually that has trimmed down my collection. Now I try and buy everything new when the trade come out. They purposely prolong 3 book stories to 6 & 8 anyway for trades.