Frank Miller Batman Universe Question

[PamGrierOverdrive]

I'm sure this may have been addressed somewhere along the way, but is All-Star Batman & Robin considered to be official canon within the Frank Miller Batman Universe? I realize it's essentially an "Ultimate" story, but I wondered if it was meant to be read between Year One and DKR, at lease as far as Miller is perhaps concerned.

[Rattlehead]

Frank Miller has said this is the case.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

Cool, I guess that answers it! Thanks

[The Batman]

Yeah Frank Miller's said this is his sequel to Year One. He's also said that he doesn't much care about strict continuity so take that for what it's worth.

[HaroldAllnut]

Yeah Frank Miller's said this is his sequel to Year One. He's also said that he doesn't much care about strict continuity so take that for what it's worth.

I'm something of a stickler for continuity. I'm just confused as to how the Batman from Year One turned into such a dick so fast. He wasn't even this much of a dick in DKR.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

Ha! I guess that's exactly what led me to ask about this in the first place.

[BrikHed21]

Frank Miller has said this is the case.

Frank Miller's continuity is what he feels at that moment - I like the book and love the man's writing as a whole but there is no way this is the same guy from Year One, maybe the same one from DKR and DKSB but no way is this Year One Batman...

[HouseSolo]

I absolutely loved Year One and DKR, but I've thought All-Star Batman and Robin has been complete rubbish. Thankfully it doesn't directly affect how I look at this two amazing stories.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

I absolutely loved Year One and DKR, but I've thought All-Star Batman and Robin has been complete rubbish. Thankfully it doesn't directly affect how I look at this two amazing stories.


I feel pretty much the same way. I dropped ASBR and sold what issues I had on ebay, but I was thinking about getting the trade when it drops and reading all of the Miller works in chronological order. Thought I might give ASBR a second look because my initial reaction to it was one of disgust.

[Choppa]

He's said it's a psuedo-year two for Batman. There are glaring inconsistencies so it's tough to call it an official sequel. And there ain't nothing ultimate about it.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

No, it's far from Ultimate....unless we're talking about Ultimate Disappointments.

[Punch]

No, it's far from Ultimate....unless we're talking about Ultimate Disappointments.

To you maybe.

[The Batman]

I'm something of a stickler for continuity. I'm just confused as to how the Batman from Year One turned into such a dick so fast. He wasn't even this much of a dick in DKR.

He's in his mid to late twenties, he's got a flying car and he's the baddest bad ass in Gotham. People have turned into dicks faster over less.


Another thing to consider is the tonal similarities between Dark Knight Returns and Year One and between Dark Knight Strikes Again and All-Star Batman & Robin. In the first two, Batman's only been Batman, or been Batman again, for a short period of time. In the latter two he's been Batman for a more extended period of time. If we leave aside the fact that those latter two are made by an older Miller who has a different approach to the character and his craft (and make no mistake, both DKSA and ASB&R are a master plying his craft) we can consider this temporal relationship as Miller's commentary on what living in the abyss like Batman does would do to the psyche of Bruce Wayne. The longer he's locked up in this monster he's made the more extreme and out of touch he'll become.

http://batman.manyfacesof.com/art/Frank_Miller_dksa3.jpg

[the goddamn batman]

He's said it's a psuedo-year two for Batman. There are glaring inconsistencies so it's tough to call it an official sequel. And there ain't nothing ultimate about it.

I believe the exact words were: "Unofficial Year-Two"

And there are "glaring inconsistencies" between DKR and DKSA, too. It's pretty common knowledge that Miller isn't worried about continuity.

You could explain most of the "glaring inconsistencies" between ASBAR and DKR if you wanted. The "glaring inconsistencies" between DKR and DKSA are a little tougher to explain.

Not sure if there are any "glaring inconsistencies" between Year One and ASBAR. None that I've noticed.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

To you maybe.

I was speaking for everybody as my opinion is the only one that matters.

[rZi]

Ive never understood why people like Millers portrayl of batman. It seems the furthest thing from what i consider to be Bats. I know that is simply down to opinion but it doesn't even seem to resemble anyone elses interpretation.

[Agent_Torpor]

I was speaking for everybody as my opinion is the only one that matters.

Looking at your current pull list: hell to da naw, brother.

You can't speak for me with an amateur list like that.

[Agent_Torpor]

Ive never understood why people like Millers portrayl of batman. It seems the furthest thing from what i consider to be Bats. I know that is simply down to opinion but it doesn't even seem to resemble anyone elses interpretation.

Bingo. He ain't following your template, son. This is Bats unchained, unfettered and unleashed through Miller's warped sensibilites.

[Rattlehead]

How many times can we have this conversation? You eithier like it or you don't, there's no middle ground here.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

Looking at your current pull list: hell to da naw, brother.

You can't speak for me with an amateur list like that.


Is that why you just called your comic shop 2 minutes ago and told them to make your pull list look just like mine? C'mon, we both know you did.

[wingzero]

I'm something of a stickler for continuity. I'm just confused as to how the Batman from Year One turned into such a dick so fast. He wasn't even this much of a dick in DKR.

Well that dude hit him with a TV in year one, then he became a dick

[matthewaos]

I absolutely loved Year One and DKR, but I've thought All-Star Batman and Robin has been complete rubbish. Thankfully it doesn't directly affect how I look at this two amazing stories.

me too.

You know, I always thought year one was in continuity, am I wrong here?

[dancj]

You know, I always thought year one was in continuity, am I wrong here?
No - I think it is still in continuity - but that doesn't stop it from being in continuity in the Millerverse too.

[Rattlehead]

me too.

You know, I always thought year one was in continuity, am I wrong here?

Yes, Year One is still in continuity. Year Two was taken out, but now it might be back in after Infinite Crisis.

[Choppa]

I believe the exact words were: "Unofficial Year-Two"

And there are "glaring inconsistencies" between DKR and DKSA, too. It's pretty common knowledge that Miller isn't worried about continuity.

You could explain most of the "glaring inconsistencies" between ASBAR and DKR if you wanted. The "glaring inconsistencies" between DKR and DKSA are a little tougher to explain.

Not sure if there are any "glaring inconsistencies" between Year One and ASBAR. None that I've noticed.

What's the difference between "Unofficial Year Two" and "Pseudo-Year Two"? Sure you could explain the inconsistencies the same way you could do for any story. My point is simply that if there is any relation at all between the stories, they don't mesh well.

To you maybe.

My point about saying it isn't Ultimate was that Marvel's Ultimate line takes their familiar characters and sets them in the modern day with modern origins and within a larger connected universe. ASB does none of these things. The only simliarity is that it's a reimagining.

[Mia]

He's said it's a psuedo-year two for Batman. There are glaring inconsistencies so it's tough to call it an official sequel. And there ain't nothing ultimate about it.


Very well said. The Batman in DKR is basically a burnt out, fed up 50 something man. Wherereas the Batman in Year One is a somewhat idealitstic 20 something guy who wants to change the system his way. The Batman is ASB&R is nowhere near either of these characterisation. He's just an idiot and a sadistic jerk who behaves without rhyme or reason. I see no co-relation between the Batman of ASB&R and the ones in DKR and BY1.

[The Batman]

The Batman of Year One was more than just an idealistic 20 something guy who wants to change the system his own way. He's someone who had spent his whole life in pursuit of one single objective - to wage, single-handedly, a war on crime - and someone who would rather bleed to death in his study than wait a single day to see that objective fufilled.

Let's not ignore the level of crazy that Year One Batman possessed and let's not ignore what being swallowed up in that war for a year can do to the sensibilities of that sort of zealous person. For that matter, let's not ignore what being the biggest bad-ass in the city and owning a flying car can do to a person's ego. We've seen people become worse over less.

As someone reading ASB&R I see connections to Year One. It's when we do get to read Bruce Wayne's thoughts though that the real linkage to Year One happens. It's not happened very often so far in this series, but it has happpened, and the voice that we first encountered in Year One is still there.

[Punch]

If we must fit DKR, YO, and ASB together, and I don't think we should have to, it's fairly easy to do.
Year One shows a Batman who is still unsure of his abilities. "Lucky Amateur"
DKR shows a Batman who is past his prime, though he is much more confident in himself." Lucky Old Man"
ASB though, shows a Batman full in his prime. He has learned from the mistakes of Year One and is obviously very good at what he does now. This is a Batman who's so good and so confident that he can actually enjoy himself, no luck needed.

[jesse_custer]

Bingo. He ain't following your template, son. This is Bats unchained, unfettered and unleashed through Miller's warped sensibilites.

Yes, this should be printed on people's hands.

I've ignored the chronology with Miller's Batman in favor of the stimulating ideas of his work.

[PamGrierOverdrive]

I was just curious about Miller's intent. I don't need to pigeonhole everything into a neat little package of continuity, but I thought it might be a richer, overall more rewarding picture if this was indeed the same Batman being shown through the various stages of his life, at least according to one artist's point of view. As it's turning out (and yes I realize this is my subjective opinion here), I'm not appreciating ASBR on any level, but it's also not detracting from my love for Year One or DKR.

[Super Buddies Forever]

Well, another thing to remember is that "Year One" is also a part of regular DC continuity and not just the "Miller-verse." So yeah, I would hope he would be less crazy there.

[the goddamn batman]

It's hard to properly judge All Star... being only half way (at most) complete. Miller's doing somthing here, we just haven't seen the pay off yet. Only little snapshots that are bound too make more sense when it's done. At least I hope they do.