Why did Alan Davis leave Excalibur?

[Dubbilex]

I'm referring to his second stint, when he was both writer and penciler. Actually, I'm curious about why he left the first time too, now that I think about it, but I'm more curious about the second. After all this time, the reason's surely been revealed by now, right?

I know he's said that he had further plans for the characters when he left.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I honestly do not know for sure. But I had assumed it was editorial. His successor, Scott Lobdell, strip mined Excalibur. Removed all the elements, and characters, who were not directly tied to the X-Men. It always seemed that at this starting point of the 'X-Franchise' days that somebody had asked Lobdell to 'Transform Excalibur into an X-Book, which fits our new line'.

What that actually meant was axe everybody except Kitty, Kurt and Rachel, and have them fight C-List X-Men foes, instead of any of their own rogues gallery. Hell initially the only British cast member was Moira, at that point. Everything which made the title stand out, self-assured, and interesting, was thrown away.

And don't even get me started on Britannic.

[kate-pryde]

Alan explained in an interview that it was mainly due to the pressure of having to do a bi-weekly schedule during the summer months.

He knew he was leaving well enough in advance that he was able to wrap up some of his plots with characters, but most of them (Feron, Kylun) were written out.

With Rachel, he has said he was told when starting his run that he was suppose to get rid of the Phoenix Force, so that was the driving force with what he was doing with Rachel.

[DDM]

Alan explained in an interview that it was mainly due to the pressure of having to do a bi-weekly schedule during the summer months.

He was able to wrap up some of his plots with characters, but most of them (Feron, Kylun) were written out.

With Rachel, he's said he was told when starting his run that he was suppose to get rid of the Phoenix Force, so that was the driving force with what he was doing with Rachel.

I remember an interview that he had ideas post-Excalibur #67 such as Rachel having now limited abilities, but still possessing the Phoenix Effect & code-name. I was mad when I found out Scott Lobdell replaced Alan Davis with Excalibur #68...:mad:

[Valeria Kementari]

I started Excalibur with issue 95, so it was all ancient history by then, but I did buy allthe previous issues and 42-67 are just the BEST Excalibur stories EVER :D

[Frank]

As a reader when Alan left I had the feeling like he had said everything he wanted to. It felt like one big storyline anyway where everything from the light house, to Phoenix to every extra-terrestials Excalibur ever met, etc...was explored, most of them meeting closure. Alan even touched upon briefly Kurt Wagner's origin and powers. Where his teleportation powers meant that he was destined to be a guide of some sort to a special journey. Most of the dangling plot threads and ideas left by Claremont over the years were used to map some sort of great tapestry/storyline by Davis and when this was achieved there were nowhere else to go.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I started Excalibur with issue 95, so it was all ancient history by then, but I did buy allthe previous issues and 42-67 are just the BEST Excalibur stories EVER :D

Absolutely. That was Excalibur at its peak. Davis had a way of stringing together so many plots at once, and creating a effortlessly 'on-the-hoof' feel to the book - where anything could happen, but yet you always felt like it was part of a grand plan.

As a reader when Alan left I had the feeling like he had said everything he wanted to. It felt like one big storyline anyway where everything from the light house, to Phoenix to every extra-terrestials Excalibur ever met, etc...was explored, most of them meeting closure. Alan even touched upon briefly Kurt Wagner's origin and powers. Where his teleportation powers meant that he was destined to be a guide of some sort to a special journey. Most of the dangling plot threads and ideas left by Claremont over the years were used to map some sort of great tapestry/storyline by Davis and when this was achieved there were nowhere else to go.

I partly agree with you. A certain number of plots were drawn to a conclusion. But there were several others which were only just beginning.

- Kylun's quest to find out what The Vixen had done with his parents.

- Micromax finally becoming a member of Excalibur, and trying to fit into the group.

- Feron trying to find a purpose now that Necrom had been destroyed, and he was not going to inherit the Phoenix Force.

All of these things were axed the second he left, along with Cerise and the utterly unconvincing 'Captain Britain got lost in the time-stream off-panel, because we don't enough room to write EVERYTHING that happens to this team! Ho Ho! Aren't we funny!?'.

Sorry, but I can't help thinking that the Lobdell period effectively killed Excalibur. Ellis might have revived it for a couple of years, but it fixed in Marvel's minds that it was okay to have a second rate, or even third rate, writer on Excalibur, in the future.

[Frank]

Absolutely. That was Excalibur at its peak. Davis had a way of stringing together so many plots at once, and creating a effortlessly 'on-the-hoof' feel to the book - where anything could happen, but yet you always felt like it was part of a grand plan.



I partly agree with you. A certain number of plots were drawn to a conclusion. But there were several others which were only just beginning.

- Kylun's quest to find out what The Vixen had done with his parents.

- Micromax finally becoming a member of Excalibur, and trying to fit into the group.

- Feron trying to find a purpose now that Necrom had been destroyed, and he was not going to inherit the Phoenix Force.

It would be great to see these characters again, they had a great potential. Alan leaving that book was like John Byrne leaving West Coast Avengers back in the day where it was so much fun and it had a great potential for interesting stories with these new characters. I hope they show up in Cap/MI:13.

All of these things were axed the second he left, along with Cerise and the utterly unconvincing 'Captain Britain got lost in the time-stream off-panel, because we don't enough room to write EVERYTHING that happens to this team! Ho Ho! Aren't we funny!?'.

Sorry, but I can't help thinking that the Lobdell period effectively killed Excalibur. Ellis might have revived it for a couple of years, but it fixed in Marvel's minds that it was okay to have a second rate, or even third rate, writer on Excalibur, in the future.

It's almost a blur to me what happened after Alan left. I remember some sort of two-parts story with Lobdell and Joe Madureira(when he was still copying Arthur Adams). It was basically a follow-up to the story from X-Factor where there were trolls and this mutant english kid called "Alchemy". Then there was a storyline with weird drawings that was about Excalibur seen from Widget's eyes. I stopped buying outright soon after that. I remember picking up an issue off a rack and it wasn't Excalibur anymore, everybody was wearing X-Men outfits and the artwork was dreadful. I put it right back.

I wish somebody would give Alan a top book again and let him do whatever he wants. Even if it's only 12 issues. Give him the Defenders...the Champions...anything. There's Clandestines but it's too much in its own little World for me.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It would be great to see these characters again, they had a great potential. Alan leaving that book was like John Byrne leaving West Coast Avengers back in the day where it was so much fun and it had a great potential for interesting stories with these new characters. I hope they show up in Cap/MI:13.

I do too. Although Micromax is now affiliated to Vanguard in the pages of Marvel Comics Presents.

It's almost a blur to me what happened after Alan left. I remember some sort of two-parts story with Lobdell and Joe Madureira(when he was still copying Arthur Adams). It was basically a follow-up to the story from X-Factor where there were trolls and this mutant english kid called "Alchemy". Then there was a storyline with weird drawings that was about Excalibur seen from Widget's eyes. I stopped buying outright soon after that. I remember picking up an issue off a rack and it wasn't Excalibur anymore, everybody was wearing X-Men outfits and the artwork was dreadful. I put it right back.

I think that the issues you're describing might actually have come in between Davis and Claremont and Davis' solo run. Lobdell's major plots included:

- Sending Cerise back to the Shi'ar for a ridiculous crime.

- Captain Britain lost in the timesteam, and then swapping in in exchange for Rachel.

- Excalibur not even appearing in their own book during the Phalanx Covenant.

- Moira continues to research the Legacy virus. Again. And again.

- Douglock - is he really Doug Ramsey back from the dead. Answer: No.

Nothing else of interest seemed to happen.

I wish somebody would give Alan a top book again and let him do whatever he wants. Even if it's only 12 issues. Give him the Defenders...the Champions...anything. There's Clandestines but it's too much in its own little World for me.

Well, it's not entirely self-enclosed - as the next two issues will show. And of course the Destines have all sorts of ties to the rest of the MU - from the X-Men, to the Silver Surfer, to the Inhumans.

But I know what you mean, Davis is marvel exclusive, now. They aught to use him more.

[Lombardo!]

I do too. Although Micromax is now affiliated to Vanguard in the pages of Marvel Comics Presents.



I think that the issues you're describing might actually have come in between Davis and Claremont and Davis' solo run. Lobdell's major plots included:

- Sending Cerise back to the Shi'ar for a ridiculous crime.

- Captain Britain lost in the timesteam, and then swapping in in exchange for Rachel.

- Excalibur not even appearing in their own book during the Phalanx Covenant.

- Moira continues to research the Legacy virus. Again. And again.

- Douglock - is he really Doug Ramsey back from the dead. Answer: No.

Nothing else of interest seemed to happen.

.

you forgot
"- Lockheed's secret ability to speak English like a New Jersey Cab-Driver"

*shudder*

[The Sword Is Drawn]

you forgot
"- Lockheed's secret ability to speak English like a New Jersey Cab-Driver"

*shudder*

Very much like 'Britannic' this will be filed in the so terrible we should never speak of it again category.

[Daithi]

I did like Excalibur 72 and 75. The one where Rachel meets up with Cable and time teleports and sucker punches him.

Excalibur 75 was nice. While it never made any sense that Rachel would be taking up Brian place (they were a team for ages!) I did enjoy the hound stuff and her talk to Kitty and Kurt.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I did like Excalibur 72 and 75. The one where Rachel meets up with Cable and time teleports and sucker punches him.

Excalibur 75 was nice. While it never made any sense that Rachel would be taking up Brian place (they were a team for ages!) I did enjoy the hound stuff and her talk to Kitty and Kurt.

They were readable. Right up to he who shall not be named's arrival... :(

[Matt K]

I'm actually curious why Davis left Clandestine (if you can't tell, I recently got the hardcover).

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm actually curious why Davis left Clandestine (if you can't tell, I recently got the hardcover).

It was down to politics Warbird.

Clandestine was originally pitched as part of the Marvel UK imprint. The book was plotted as a central book for E-i-C Paul Neary's big second wave for the imprint, which focused more on Vertigo style books, and strong character concepts. But the Marvel US pulled the plug on the imprint, and started culling staff very swiftly. But they still liked the idea of Clandestine, and wanted to keep it. It reached the point where pretty much everybody else employed at, or attached to, the UK offices had been made redundant - except for (I believe) Neary, Davis, and Farmer. Because they were involved with Clandestine - which was to remain Marvel UK's sole published property.

Obviously that put several people in a really awkward position.

The book was eventually published as a Marvel Comic, straight, but despite having plotted several years worth of story for the book, Davis felt the position untenable. There were people he'd worked with for years, at Marvel UK, and at other companies, and he decided that what was going on was not fair. So he walked, and went to do some work for DC.

Clandestine issues #9-12 were written by fill in writers and artists. They were not good. They are also not reprinted in the Hardcover volume. When Davis came back to do the Clandestine/X-Men limited series he retconned the issues written in his absence. The artwork was okay (Bryan Hitch and Pino Rinaldi, I believe) but the story was bad. Nobody could really do it justice other than Alan.

[Matt K]

It was down to politics Warbird.


Thanks, I read about the fill in but I couldn't seem to find the reason why Davis left. Clandestine is a pretty good series (although I found the X-Men crossover not nearly as good as the previous issues).

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Thanks, I read about the fill in but I couldn't seem to find the reason why Davis left. Clandestine is a pretty good series (although I found the X-Men crossover not nearly as good as the previous issues).

I think that's largely because it WAS a crossover. It was something separate. Clandestine is at its best when it's just the family exploring their role in history, and how it interweaves with the rest of the Marvel Universe throughout the ages. Davis writes that really well. He has a talent for seeing how interweaving details can form a far more impressive greater story - something I'm sure which comes from working on British anthology titles for as many years as he did. And his work on Excalibur really shows that off, too. It is incredibly well constructed - which is why it reads so well.

[Lombardo!]

Very much like 'Britannic' this will be filed in the so terrible we should never speak of it again category.

agreed. on a side note, what did you think of the Wisdom/Black Air/Ex Girlfriend story arc that was playing out around the same time? i kinda dug it. he would light his cigarettes off his hot knives, and that's just dripping with cool

[Gloom Cookie]

Clandestine issues #9-12 were written by fill in writers and artists. They were not good.

That's an understatement. The issues were awful beyond words. I did enjoy how Davis easily retconned it.

[Gloom Cookie]

agreed. on a side note, what did you think of the Wisdom/Black Air/Ex Girlfriend story arc that was playing out around the same time? i kinda dug it. he would light his cigarettes off his hot knives, and that's just dripping with cool

I hated those issues. I couldn't stand Pete Wisdom. To me, his name and the word "cool" shouldn't be in the same sentence. That is, unless it read "That was so cool how Wisdom was run over by that bus!"

[jarrod]

People seem to be mixing Ellis and Lobdell up for some god forsaken reason. Ellis was the one who had Lockheed speak and brought us the sublime presence of Petey Wisdom. He also single handedly saved Excalibur after Lobdell's illconcieved trainwreck (only to have Raab follow and haphazardly undo all his hard work).




Back on topic though, the reason Davis left originally was that the book was his first writing stint and he felt a bit overwhelmed/burnt out by that point. Kavanaugh left as editor at the same time too though iirc, and that's when the book was morphed into another standard X-book.

On a side note, Joe Madureira was originally planned to take over art after Davis, but he lucked out and got Uncanny instead as JRJR left.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

agreed. on a side note, what did you think of the Wisdom/Black Air/Ex Girlfriend story arc that was playing out around the same time? i kinda dug it. he would light his cigarettes off his hot knives, and that's just dripping with cool

That wasnt Lobdell, Lombardo. That was Ellis. And it was a great story - probably first time Excalibur had even been allowed to HAVE their own villains again since Lobdell took over.

The Ex-Girlfriend with the really unpronounceable name was Ben Raab, though. Excalibur really jumped the shark when he came on board, and cancellation really wasn't that much of a surprise. It's just so galling that Ellis' tenure was the best the book had had in years, and after creating a team which by rights should have set the book up for another 5 years a c-list writer got in cancelled within one. :(

That's an understatement. The issues were awful beyond words. I did enjoy how Davis easily retconned it.

It's really odd. Every fill in artists tried to ape Davis style. Even Bryan Hitch did it. But there's almost no point in trying. Nobody does Davis like Davis does.

I actually quite liked Pino Rinaldi's fill in pencils, but the story concepts were just... so BAD!

People seem to be mixing Ellis and Lobdell up for some god forsaken reason. Ellis was the one who had Lockheed speak and brought us the sublime presence of Petey Wisdom. He also single handedly saved Excalibur after Lobdell's illconcieved trainwreck (only to have Raab follow and haphazardly undo all his hard work).

Yup, that covers it for me. And Wisdom is one of the best British characters ever brought into Marvel comics. He certainly shattered this rubbish bolar hat tea drinking image that so often gets portrayed in Marvel's US books.

Back on topic though, the reason Davis left originally was that the book was his first writing stint and he felt a bit overwhelmed/burnt out by that point. Kavanaugh left as editor at the same time too though iirc, and that's when the book was morphed into another standard X-book.

Ah, you see I wasn't aware that Kavanagh went at the same time. That part explains the several of the rookie mistakes made on the book in the next year.

On a side note, Joe Madureira was originally planned to take over art after Davis, but he lucked out and got Uncanny instead as JRJR left.

You know, I'd heard that as a rumour a few years back. Is that genuine? His style would have suited the book a lot better. Instead it went into a spiral of fill in artists until the Pacheco/Jones days. The poor art quality, especially in the first few issues lobdell had was a real kick in the nuts. Maybe that occurred because Joe Mad had been pencilled in, but moved on at short notice?

[jarrod]

Yup, that covers it for me. And Wisdom is one of the best British characters ever brought into Marvel comics. He certainly shattered this rubbish bolar hat tea drinking image that so often gets portrayed in Marvel's US books.
Agreed. I'm really pleased he and Cap are getting prime exposure again.


Ah, you see I wasn't aware that Kavanagh went at the same time. That part explains the several of the rookie mistakes made on the book in the next year.
Yeah, it was basically a complete staff turnover... had Excalibur not been pushed into the X-Office, I think it'd have likely been canceled.


You know, I'd heard that as a rumour a few years back. Is that genuine? His style would have suited the book a lot better. Instead it went into a spiral of fill in artists until the Pacheco/Jones days. The poor art quality, especially in the first few issues lobdell had was a real kick in the nuts. Maybe that occurred because Joe Mad had been pencilled in, but moved on at short notice?
I've only heard rumors too, but it seems likely given the fill-ins and cover work he'd done on the book. Could've been nice, I really enjoyed Mad back when he was still aping Art Adams (ie: pre-Uncanny 325) and he drew a great Nightcrawler.

Suppossedly both Mad and Queseda were considered for replacing JRJR on Uncanny btw... which might explain the chief's general neglect of and apathy towards the line since taking over. ;)

[Ann Nichols]

Judging by the end of "ClanDestine" v.2, #2, Crosstime Caper Excalibur should show up in #3.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Agreed. I'm really pleased he and Cap are getting prime exposure again.

Me too. It was such a waste to leave them in limbo.

Yeah, it was basically a complete staff turnover... had Excalibur not been pushed into the X-Office, I think it'd have likely been canceled.

I fear that you may have been right. I'm obviously glad that it didn't get axed, but I won't pretend to be pleased with the butchery job Lobdell performed on the title.

I've only heard rumors too, but it seems likely given the fill-ins and cover work he'd done on the book. Could've been nice, I really enjoyed Mad back when he was still aping Art Adams (ie: pre-Uncanny 325) and he drew a great Nightcrawler.

He did indeed. It's really hard to look at those images and even see him as the same artist, now. I did initially like his more manga inspired work on Uncanny, but his more modern work just looks like everybody is taking a bit too many steroids for my liking. A shame.

Suppossedly both Mad and Queseda were considered for replacing JRJR on Uncanny btw... which might explain the chief's general neglect of and apathy towards the line since taking over. ;)

Hmmm... maybe? :D

Judging by the end of "ClanDestine" v.2, #2, Crosstime Caper Excalibur should show up in #3.

They appear to be solicited for the following issue, too.

[estee]

I loved Alan Davis' run. Especially the final major story line, with Merlin. Just stellar.

Then he left and the first thing the new writer did was to get rid of Cerise, one of my favourite new characters and great love interest for Kurt. So bye-bye, Excalibur. ;)

[jarrod]

I fear that you may have been right. I'm obviously glad that it didn't get axed, but I won't pretend to be pleased with the butchery job Lobdell performed on the title.
As much as I enjoyed the Ellis revival... in the short term, Lobdell probably was a fate worse than death. :D


He did indeed. It's really hard to look at those images and even see him as the same artist, now. I did initially like his more manga inspired work on Uncanny, but his more modern work just looks like everybody is taking a bit too many steroids for my liking. A shame.
I liked the shift initially too, but man I can't stand Mad these days. His Excalibur fill in and initial Phalanx stpryline on Uncanny still look great though.

Why can't more capable artists imitate Art Adams. :(


I was sad when Pacheco got pulled from the book too... he never really got to really engage with the title or characters either sue to his wife's illness and all those fill ins. The Kitty/Peter/Kurt in Limbo issue is still breathtaking imo.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I loved Alan Davis' run. Especially the final major story line, with Merlin. Just stellar.

Then he left and the first thing the new writer did was to get rid of Cerise, one of my favourite new characters and great love interest for Kurt. So bye-bye, Excalibur. ;)

You weren't the only one. I stuck with it, because it had been my favourite book. Hell, if it hadn't been for Excalibur I probably wouldn't have even gotten into reading the X-Titles. But it was a hard slog. The way in which Lobdell went about culling cast members was done in such a badly written, cheap fashion, that I find it very hard to respect anything the guy has written since. Off panel write-outs are just unacceptable in any book. And to have first removed a flagship character off panel, followed by another four characters?

Crappy doesn't really cover it.

[Dagger]

I actually liked Larocca (gasp, shock, horrors) when he first came on the title after Pacheco left. I really did enjoy Pacheco on the book, but was hoping to see more of him on FF. It's too bad we got Heroes Reborn instead of Lobdell and Pacheco on FF. Say what you will about Lobdell's Excalibur, but his 3 issue stint on FF with Alan Davis was probably the best the title was til Waid came on that book.

[jarrod]

I actually liked Larocca (gasp, shock, horrors) when he first came on the title after Pacheco left. I really did enjoy Pacheco on the book, but was hoping to see more of him on FF. It's too bad we got Heroes Reborn instead of Lobdell and Pacheco on FF. Say what you will about Lobdell's Excalibur, but his 3 issue stint on FF with Alan Davis was probably the best the title was til Waid came on that book.
You liked Larocca?! One of us, one of us.....


But you didn't like Claremont's stint? I'd always heard good things about it (albeit from Excalibur fans)... Caledonia, where are u?!

[Dagger]

You liked Larocca?! One of us, one of us.....


But you didn't like Claremont's stint? I'd always heard good things about it (albeit from Excalibur fans)... Caledonia, where are u?!
No, I didn't like Claremont's FF. It was too Excalibur-y, and totally didn't like his characterization of any of the characters. He tried to make them outlaws, and make people all of a sudden become distrustful of the FF for no reason whatsoever, and the marriage of Doc. Doom and the Invisible Woman was a craptacular story at best.

[DDM]

I loved Alan Davis' run. Especially the final major story line, with Merlin. Just stellar.

Then he left and the first thing the new writer did was to get rid of Cerise, one of my favourite new characters and great love interest for Kurt. So bye-bye, Excalibur. ;)

Cerise is an interesting character. I never connected that she is a Shi'ar until Scott Lobdell wrote her out of the book...

[Valeria Kementari]

Excalibur was my first "spin-off" outside of the Uncanny/X-Men titles... I loved it and miss it terribly, this new Cap Brit series is a mockery compared to Excalibur :(

[DDM]

Excalibur was my first "spin-off" outside of the Uncanny/X-Men titles... I loved it and miss it terribly, this new Cap Brit series is a mockery compared to Excalibur :(

The soon-to-be Captain Britain & M:13 actually resembles the pre-Alan Davis-David Thorpe-Alan Moore-Jamie Delano-Alan Davis Captain Britain. Cornell seems to be returning Brian to his roots.

Personally, I like the Otherworld stuff too, but you can see more of this in New Exiles...

[Valeria Kementari]

The soon-to-be Captain Britain & M:13 actually resembles the pre-Alan Davis-David Thorpe-Alan Moore-Jamie Delano-Alan Davis Captain Britain. Cornell seems to be returning Brian to his roots.

Personally, I like the Otherworld stuff too, but you can see more of this in New Exiles...

Cap Brit's Roots are Otherworld, without it he holds no interest to me :p

[Matt K]

Cap Brit's Roots are Otherworld, without it he holds no interest to me :p

Well you can blame Chris Claremont for forcibly removing those elements from any writer for the near future.

Personally, I'm very much looking forward to the new series (with the hope that in a year or so Cornell could use Otherworld again).

[The Sword Is Drawn]

No, I didn't like Claremont's FF. It was too Excalibur-y, and totally didn't like his characterization of any of the characters. He tried to make them outlaws, and make people all of a sudden become distrustful of the FF for no reason whatsoever, and the marriage of Doc. Doom and the Invisible Woman was a craptacular story at best.

I actually quite liked the Claremont period FF. I know there were complaints by some over it being too 'Excalibur-y' but I think that a lot of the time people confuse 'Excalibur-y' for 'Ominversal'. Excalibur never appeared on FF. Yes Roma did, yes the Captain Britain Corps did, but these are characters who specifically deal with the Marvel Omniverse. The story preceding the Fantastic Four relaunch was Heroes Return - in which it was properly covered that Franklin Richard's powers had allowed him to create a pocket universe, in which all the heroes who seemed to have died in Onslaught had been living in. Roma being the supreme being responsible for maintaining the balance of all of Marvel's alternate universes was naturally concerned about what Franklin might be capable of. If he could create a universe instinctively, what if he accidentally destroyed one instinctively?

That was a real sensible question to ask, and a lot of what Claremont did focused on that. The Captain Britain Corps are to the Marvel Omniverse what the Green Lantern Corps are to DC, in many respects. Only for alternate universes. It makes sense to use them.

I loved Larocca's art on that (I also loved in on Death's Head, Dark Angel and Excalibur, for the record) and I feel it remains probably his better period in comics. It was a good solid style. It was only when he started migrating away from traditional colouring on inks where I felt it began to go wrong.

Cerise is an interesting character. I never connected that she is a Shi'ar until Scott Lobdell wrote her out of the book...

Really? I always made the connection. The way she arrived in Excalibur was almost identical to the way Lilandra arrived in Uncanny (And tongue in cheek deliberate, by Davis, I don't doubt) and while I can't be 100% sure it was stated she was Shi'ar I always read her as being.

Excalibur was my first "spin-off" outside of the Uncanny/X-Men titles... I loved it and miss it terribly, this new Cap Brit series is a mockery compared to Excalibur :(

In what way a mockery? We're talking about a series fronted by Captain Britain, set in Britain, dealing with supernatural threats and sci-fi weird happenings, with a witty sense of humour, a smattering of irony, Pete Wisdom on the team, and characters like Alistaire Stuart and Dai Thomas being referenced as appearing in supporting roles.

Seriously, if that isn't worthy of succeeding Excalibur, what is? Sure Davis isn't pencilling it, but you be pretty certain that Cornell will do a better job than the last two Excalibur incarnations. Let's be honest, the only reason the editors and brand guys decided to change the name from 'Excalibur' was because Claremont's last two incarnations have been such huge flops. The Excalibur brand is battered. It'll be a while before it'll be able to come credibly back.

The soon-to-be Captain Britain & M:13 actually resembles the pre-Alan Davis-David Thorpe-Alan Moore-Jamie Delano-Alan Davis Captain Britain. Cornell seems to be returning Brian to his roots.

The Omniversal side of things are a bit of a mess now. Claremont screwed them up by not realising Brian was overseeing the whole Marvel Omniverse at the time he picked him up for House of M. And since that moment the whole of that side of Cap's mythos has been unravelled. It started by that cock up, and ended up with the death of Roma, and removal of The Guardian role in Marvel - replaced by Sage.

What's left of the Omniversal side of things can be read in New eXiles. Sadly a 25 year story of a man created to eventually become Merlin's successor, and Guardian of the Omniverse - Otherwise known as the story Of Brian Braddock: Captain Britain - has been pretty badly train-wrecked. And I still find it amazing that Cap's own creator could have done it - that Chris Claremont could have such a fundamental lack of knowledge about the character. We're not just talking one contradiction in print, here. We're talking numerous errors stacked up.

The problem that brings is that any writer now touching Brian cannot really use the Ominiverse/Otherworld/Avalon stuff, right now. It's a poisoned chalice. You cannot try to patch up broken continuity while Claremont continues to be in charge of eXiles. He gets right to veto on that. So you have to really work out where that leaves the character.

What Cornell is doing is simply bringing Brian home. There's a whole load of things which a lot of people have kind of forgotten about the character - purely because thy haven't really been touched upon since early Excalibur. For one Brian is a respected and idolized British hero. The people of Britain DO look up to him. He's a symbol - not quite in the fashion which Captain America is, but in the British equivalent. That was where the character was in his solo book, and seamlessly sliding into Excalibur under Claremont and Davis. And if Britain is about yo be invaded that's a hero and a symbol which badly needs to be seen.

It's also worth noting that Brian's very powers are linked symbiotically to the UK's collective consciousness. If you hurt Captain Britain, you HURT Britain itself. On the flip side of the coin though, if Britain is behind him 100% the guy should be unstoppable on his home turf. It's a two way arrangement, a double-edged sword. But weirdly one which has not really been discussed in a very long time - except, ironically, by Chuck Austen, in Avengers.

Captain Britain is an essential part of Marvel's Britain. I've never understood how some people ever thought we could have an Excalibur without him. I'm glad that CB&MI:13 has Cornell behind it. Because I know for a fact he's a Cap and Excalibur fan - and there aren't many writers out there who get either of those particularly well. I have high hopes for this one.

[creaky]

Cerise is an interesting character. I never connected that she is a Shi'ar until Scott Lobdell wrote her out of the book...

I never saw her appeal. The only personality she ever gained while around was "slightly confused alien".

[Dubbilex]

Really? I always made the connection. The way she arrived in Excalibur was almost identical to the way Lilandra arrived in Uncanny (And tongue in cheek deliberate, by Davis, I don't doubt) and while I can't be 100% sure it was stated she was Shi'ar I always read her as being.

Nah, Davis has said that she wasn't meant to be Shi'ar, and that he had a different background in mind.

[Frank]

I didn't like Cerise because she had a lame name, power, and look. But mostly it was because it felt like Alan tried to "fix" the Brian-Meggan-Kurt relationship by having Kurt have a new girlfriend. It made me mad because I always hoped Kurt would end up with Meggan.

But as far as Alan Davis I wonder why he did so few comic work in the last few years? Apart from DC's The Nail, he's never worked on a regular basis since Excalibur. I bought Avengers and FF out of seeing his name there but he only did 6 issues and 3 issues respectively. He also did a short X-Men run where he was asked to fix a few CC dangling plots(seems like an habit for him lol) and he did with Magneto/Joseph and the Twelve(that was a huge mistake). There was also the FF mini-series and recently the Clandestine. But all in all it has mostly been short runs and so forth. I wonder if it's because Alan has become less interested or if he doesn't have the patience and passion anymore to do a good run. And I would say the same for Walt Simonson.

[jarrod]

I never saw her appeal.
Muscles! <3 <3

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I never saw her appeal. The only personality she ever gained while around was "slightly confused alien".

As an outsider, sure. But I found it interesting.

Nah, Davis has said that she wasn't meant to be Shi'ar, and that he had a different background in mind.

Hmmm. I wonder what.

I didn't like Cerise because she had a lame name, power, and look. But mostly it was because it felt like Alan tried to "fix" the Brian-Meggan-Kurt relationship by having Kurt have a new girlfriend. It made me mad because I always hoped Kurt would end up with Meggan.

Lol. Meggan was never going to end up with Kurt.

But as far as Alan Davis I wonder why he did so few comic work in the last few years? Apart from DC's The Nail, he's never worked on a regular basis since Excalibur.

After Excalibur Paul Neary went out of hsi way to get Alan to come over to Marvel UK and spearhead his second big push of imprint titles. He developed Clandestine for them, building up a heck of a lot of material and press stuff, and being part of that drive. Then Marvel US pulled the plug on Marvel UK, and like I say Clandestine was the only book they wanted to keep. So after 8 issues Davis walked, because he didn't feel Marvel had treated a lot of artists, writers and staff very fairly. That led him into ding more work for DC for a few years.

In more recent years, though, he's not worked as much due to a nasty wrist injury which has impeded his speed of production - and obviously is roughed up more and more by the more work he draws.

[Dagger]

I actually quite liked the Claremont period FF. I know there were complaints by some over it being too 'Excalibur-y' but I think that a lot of the time people confuse 'Excalibur-y' for 'Ominversal'. Excalibur never appeared on FF. Yes Roma did, yes the Captain Britain Corps did, but these are characters who specifically deal with the Marvel Omniverse. The story preceding the Fantastic Four relaunch was Heroes Return - in which it was properly covered that Franklin Richard's powers had allowed him to create a pocket universe, in which all the heroes who seemed to have died in Onslaught had been living in. Roma being the supreme being responsible for maintaining the balance of all of Marvel's alternate universes was naturally concerned about what Franklin might be capable of. If he could create a universe instinctively, what if he accidentally destroyed one instinctively?

That was a real sensible question to ask, and a lot of what Claremont did focused on that. The Captain Britain Corps are to the Marvel Omniverse what the Green Lantern Corps are to DC, in many respects. Only for alternate universes. It makes sense to use them.

I loved Larocca's art on that (I also loved in on Death's Head, Dark Angel and Excalibur, for the record) and I feel it remains probably his better period in comics. It was a good solid style. It was only when he started migrating away from traditional colouring on inks where I felt it began to go wrong.
I don't know, maybe because I'm not a huge fan of Roma and all that jazz, that I didn't like the 'Excalibur-ation' of the FF. I mean, when you have infinately more interesting characters like the Watcher, Adam Warlock, and countless others that could have become involved with the FF and specifically Franklin, then it just didn't make any sense to me after all the other feats that Frank has done, all of a sudden she becomes interested in Franklin and sends the CB Corps after him, and we get the absolutely horrible Caledonia character.

Plus, he really never found the characters voices. Johnny should not in any way shape or form 'speak' like he did under CC's pen. Not that he's stupid, just CC didn't 'get' his character. He's a race-car driver by trade, not a physicist.

[creaky]

Lol. Meggan was never going to end up with Kurt.

True. I can't for the life of me remember where this was said or dig up the interview right now, but either Claremont or Davis said that if Kurt and Meggan had ended up together, they would probably have lived happily ever after and you don't write stories about happily ever after.

And so this way, both got to go on and have many wonderful stories told about them instead of...
Oh wait. :(

[Dizzy D]

Nah, Davis has said that she wasn't meant to be Shi'ar, and that he had a different background in mind.

True, Kurt's first response to seeing her is that he's seen many forms of aliens and their technology, but never anything like she had. Revealing her to be Shi'ar then, the alien race Kurt has had the most contact with in his life, is a bit ... stupid?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

True, Kurt's first response to seeing her is that he's seen many forms of aliens and their technology, but never anything like she had. Revealing her to be Shi'ar then, the alien race Kurt has had the most contact with in his life, is a bit ... stupid?

Or a bit... Lobdell?:rolleyes:

[estee]

What upsets me the most about the loss of Excalibur was that Kurt no longer had a venue to display his leadership abilities.

In Excalibur I truly believed that Kurt was equal to Scott or Ororo as a leader. He was smart, quick, determined and inspiring.

Now what is he...yet another supporting character.

[jarrod]

What upsets me the most about the loss of Excalibur was that Kurt no longer had a venue to display his leadership abilities.

In Excalibur I truly believed that Kurt was equal to Scott or Ororo as a leader. He was smart, quick, determined and inspiring.

Now what is he...yet another supporting character.
Agreed, but this has more to do with writers than placement imo. Just look at what Carey did with Rogue, positioning her like that beforehand would've been unthinkable but now she's seen as one of the real potential X-Men leaders.

Kurt just needs a good writer with a solid plan imo... there's an especially good opportuinity now in Uncanny too imo, now that Ellis has nabbed Scott, Emma and Ororo chiefly.

[Daithi]

Kurt just needs a good writer with a solid plan imo... there's an especially good opportuinity now in Uncanny too imo, now that Ellis has nabbed Scott, Emma and Ororo chiefly.

Will Brubaker be losing them though? Though Kurt was his leader during the space arc and look how that worked out for him.

[jarrod]

Will Brubaker be losing them though? Though Kurt was his leader during the space arc and look how that worked out for him.
Pobably not entirely, though I suspect Scott and Emma will be more "permanent cameos" than anything. I'm guessing Ororo or Hank will barely show either.

I think the core of Brubaker and Fraction's team looks like it'll be Kurt, Peter, Logan, Warren, Ali, Hep and Megan. Fraction keeps mentioning Shan too, and at this point he's my biggest hope for giving Kurt that leadership push... but honestly, I'd imagine Bru's probably going to have Warren do basically what Alex did in Rise. :(

[creaky]

I don't WANT Kurt as a leader right now. I think what he needs at this point is to find his inner swashbuckler again and having a mountain of responsibility thrown onto his shoulders would just prevent that. Later on, sure, but I want his growth into that role to feel natural.
Right now, like it or not, it's Cyclops' show.

[david r]

I think that's largely because it WAS a crossover. It was something separate.

This part isn't true. The X-Men/Clandestine crossover was always part of Alan Davis' Clandestine plans. In fact, Alan had plotted like 50 issues of Clandestine. He barely scratched the surface of the tale in the 1990s.

But the X-Men crossover was always a part of Davis' plans for the Clandestine.

[david r]

Alan Davis on leaving with Excalibur #24, thanks to COMICS CREATORS ON X-MEN...

"I actually left with issue #17 and only agreed to pencil #24 to help with deadline problems. The reason I left EXCALIBUR was that the plots were getting progressively later and the time I had to draw an issue was being squeezed, so I had to rush the work and would then be left twiddling my thumbs for a couple of weeks."

Alan on why he left with Excalibur #67...

"It was hard work writing and pencilling a book with a monthly deadline, which was not helped by the fact that the healthy deadline I had requested as a comfort zone was taken away when EXCALIBUR was put on a bi-weekly schedule over the summer months. I had been three months ahead of schedule and was then suddenly a couple of weeks behind. This meant I was struggling from fairly early on and eventually had to take a break. I think that broke my stride and when I returned to the book, I had decided to finish up the "long story" I had already planned. I always intended to move on as soon as that was complete, anyway. I wanted to create something from scratch that would be free from the entanglement of other developing continuities."

[The Sword Is Drawn]

That project turned out to be Clandestine.

[david r]

I felt Alan Davis' writing on Excalibur was superbly done. It became my favorite comic during that time. I was hoping Alan stayed on for years. As usual, he immediately left...

I always enjoyed the new elements he brought to the table, with Ky'lun, Cerise and Micromax. Why in the world Marvel never does anything substantial with these new characters I don't understand.

[DungeonmasterJim]

I enjoyed the intial Claremont/Davis run on Excalibur the best of the whole series. Davis's solo stint was my second. And thenWarren Ellis's is my third favorite. I pretty much dislike about every other issue from the series.

Also about Cerise:

Quote:
Was it your idea to have Cerise be a Shi'ar alien or was that introduced by another writer?

I had another origin in mind.

Quote:
Also, was the scene where Cerise removes her helmet in EXCALIBUR #47 inspired by the scene in X-MEN #105 where Lilandra removes her helmet?

Not consciously. If anything I was inspired by Barbarella.

Quote:
Did you have longer term plans for these characters?

Yes.

Quote:
Would you ever use them again?

I never say never.

The above was his response on March 13, 2008 about question pertaining to Cerise.

His forum is
http://alandavis-forum.com/

He's pretty good about answering questions and giving info you probably wouldn't find in his comics about characters and such.

DM Jim