A couple of plot questions from a new fan

[manwiththemachinegun]

Hi everyone, just a couple of questions from someone entering the deep waters of Hellboy. :D

Firstly, what exactly is the conqueror worm? It's not a Ogdru Jahad or Ogdru Hem but it apparently has the power to call and release them. It can also mutate people into frog demons, so it would seem there is some kind of connection between the two. So is it an emissary? A weapon? An astral projection? Any popular theories?

Next, is Makoma an actual Hellboy story? I mean, when the mummy was talking to Hellboy, did he literally make him a part of the story? Basically, was it a dream or was it actually happening to Hellboy?

Torch of Liberty, a cool throw away character or does he ever show up again?

Lobster Johnson, any reason given why he's such a freaking powerful ghost? Or is his desire for justice really that strong? :D

Finally, is it ever explained why Hecate is unkillable in her present form? Sure an enchanted Iron Maiden is heavy duty, but it seems that she's nigh invulnerable until beyond Judgment day, why is that exactly?

[Jake Capps]

Hi everyone, just a couple of questions from someone entering the deep waters of Hellboy. :D

Firstly, what exactly is the conqueror worm? It's not a Ogdru Jahad or Ogdru Hem but it apparently has the power to call and release them. It can also mutate people into frog demons, so it would seem there is some kind of connection between the two. So is it an emissary? A weapon? An astral projection? Any popular theories?

Next, is Makoma an actual Hellboy story? I mean, when the mummy was talking to Hellboy, did he literally make him a part of the story? Basically, was it a dream or was it actually happening to Hellboy?

Torch of Liberty, a cool throw away character or does he ever show up again?

Lobster Johnson, any reason given why he's such a freaking powerful ghost? Or is his desire for justice really that strong? :D

Finally, is it ever explained why Hecate is unkillable in her present form? Sure an enchanted Iron Maiden is heavy duty, but it seems that she's nigh invulnerable until beyond Judgment day, why is that exactly?

Your insightful questions have shook me to my "Fan-Boy" core.

[manwiththemachinegun]

Thanks, I'm a quick study. ;) Although its a bit daunting trying to catch up on 15 years of material. I've read the first few volumes and looked up a little general info on wikipedia. However, I didn't even know about Hellboy until I saw the movie a year or two ago, and wasn't that interested in the comic until I read 'BPRD: Black Flame' at a local store (I foolishly assumed most of the 'cool stuff' was in the movie).

So, I assume I'm at least in the ball park with a few of these guesses?

[Jake Capps]

I want to try, and answer your questions but there are members on the board that would give you much better answers. With me I don't consider Hellboy to be a clearly defined as your questions would ask. Let's say there is an old lady who fly's around in a big cup. Mignola doesn't get into the physics of what keeps that cup off the ground. Or maybe he does, and I'm not reading it right. You could wait for the Hellboy Companion, and maybe all secrets, and answers will be revealed. Keep your mind open, and welcome to the board!

[Mike Cross]

Torch of Liberty - basically a one-off John Byrne associated character..i think the basics of what he was "became" Commander Freedom in Chris Golden's first novel (am i right all?). Mike Mignola seemed to move on with the infinitely more cooler Lobster Johnson and all is well with the world.

[Maija]

Heya, manwiththemachinegun, welcome to the board! You should read the BPRD, first, because it is awesome and second, because some of your questions sort of get answered in those stories (and new questions will be raised!)

There are others who will undoubtedly answer your questions specifically but just off the top of my head:

I think Makoma is meant to operate exactly as you read it: it's unclear as to whether or not it was a story told literally or just a dream. However, I'm pretty certain that it was not meant as a throw-away "just a dream" story but that it does refer to real events in Hellboy's life, though their specifics could be flexible in the way of dreams and visions. It's definitely canon.

As for the strength of ghosts and justice, you should read BPRD. The Lobster Johnson mini also sets up a bit of backstory for LJ which, although told in a pulpy manner, appears to be "real" in the universe of Hellboy. It should be in trade before too long.

There's some more discussion (some of it insanely detailed) in the threads for The Island, Darkness Calls and each of the BPRD series. Use the Advance Search function to look for the title appearing in the subject header of a thread.

As Mike says, the Companion may answer a lot of questions. (Or at least provide a reference for fine-tuning theories!)

[Neil Hill]

Hey, welcome to the board! BTW, Maija, love the 'themed' turnip! It warms my Scottish/Irish heart. :D

I'll take a weak stab at your question about the Conqueror Worm. During The Island mini-series Mike explains that at one point there is a whole mess of 'elder gods' loosed into the world (directly or indirectly) by the angels who first stole fire from (what is assumed to be) God. These creatures seem to have all kinds of fantastical abilities (including the ability to turn men into frog monsters) and can creep up at any point and into any story during the Hellboy universe unfolding of events. Perhaps that's part of the reason that Mike explained things this way, as it allowed him the chance to have these elder gods creep up w/out heavy exposition as to where they came from. He layed the ground work in advance, in other words.

Now, all of what I've just said could be completely off, but this is my interpretation of what the C.W. may be.

[Rachel Edidin]

The Conqueror Worm is one of the Ogdru Hem.

BTW, manwiththemachinegun, is the username a reference to Laguna Loire? If so, ROCK ON.

[Kelly Tindall]

The Conqueror Worm is one of the Ogdru Hem.

Really?

So the space ghosts are Ogdru Hem, too? The critter that overtook Mr. Tod was an Ogdru Hem? Damn. Completely missed that.

[manwiththemachinegun]

"BTW, manwiththemachinegun, is the username a reference to Laguna Loire? If so, ROCK ON."

Yup, the everyman hero. :cool:

Wow, thanks for the responses everyone. I like that 'elder evil god' loophole, plenty of room to bring in new material without being bound by the whole 7/369 number of monsters. That actually clears things up quite a bit.

Shame Torch of Liberty wasn't used more, especially considering how popular Lobster Johnson became. Must be the goggles, chicks dig the goggles.

Makoma is still a mystery, I'm leaning towards it was all a dream/spiritual journey, mostly because the idea of Hellboy getting an 100 year old girlfriend is just... weird, or more so than usual. ;)

[Catlin]

Man, those are some great questions...and I could answer none, except the Torch of Liberty one and someone beat me to the punch. I really need to become more hardcore fangirl with the HB/BPRD stuff.

[Rachel Edidin]

As Mike says, the Companion may answer a lot of questions. (Or at least provide a reference for fine-tuning theories!)

A lot from column A; a lot from column B.

[Timaximus]

I recently reread everything straight through* (Hellboy, BPRD, LoJo), and I've got a no-prize type question. In The Corpse, Gruagach was the changeling-baby. Hellboy pissed him off, so he went and got the pig demon, Grom, to smite Hellboy. Grom eats Gruagach, Hellboy clobbers Grom, Grom runs off. The next time we see the pig demon, he's Gruagach. What gives?

* I heartily recommend this!

[Kelly Tindall]

That weirded me out, too. Also when Hellboy smacks him he gets tiny for some reason.

[Jake Capps]

That weirded me out, too. Also when Hellboy smacks him he gets tiny for some reason.

That reminds me of Grendel in the new Beowulf movie; folklore has a few beasts that do that. Sword of Storms has that water creature that shrinks when he's defeated.

[Juno Reactor]

That reminds me of Grendel in the new Beowulf movie; folklore has a few beasts that do that. Sword of Storms has that water creature that shrinks when he's defeated.
Also, the four giants from "Makoma" get smaller when defeated.

ManWithTheMachineGun, listen to Rachel Edidin. She's an editor at Dark Horse, so her information is accurate.

That being said, I'm not surprised the Conqueror Worm is an Ogdru Hem. I think in "The Island" the prophet said that when the 369 Ogdru Hem were born, the angels struck them down, sealing some in the earth and sea and driving others into the air. I suppose it's not too farfetched to think that some were driven into the vaccuum of space as well, where they linger in the darkness as spirits. This is the "sea of monsters" the alien in "Conqueror Worm" referred to -- a graveyard of Ogrdu Hem spirits, waiting for empty vessels (aka corpses) to appear so they can assume physical form.

The creature in "Goodbye, Mister Tod" is also an Ogdru Hem spirit-in-space much like the Conqueror Worm. The alien says as much.

As for Makoma, it seems clear to me that it's a dream sequence, but one where Hellboy's spirit is transported, and he experiences in the span of a second all that Makoma experienced in the course of a lifetime. Just because it's a dream doesn't mean it's a "throwaway," though. Everything Makoma went through is symbolic for Hellboy and his destiny. The parallels are striking -- especially the implications about how Hellboy's final confrontation with the Ogdru Jahad will pan out...

As for Hecate... This is how I see it. When she was a snake-goddess, she was made of flesh and like all flesh could be destroyed. But after "Wake the Devil," her spirit enters the iron maiden, thus giving her iron skin. Theoretically, she could probably still be destroyed in this form, but Hellboy never opts to fight her in this incarnation, and the only character that challenges her is Rasputin, who is no match since he's a mere ghost and half of his soul is tucked away elsewhere in the World Tree.

But Hecate is NOT invulnerable. Read "Darkness Calls" -- in the opening act, a certain character figures out Hecate's weakness. Let's just say that having the blood of a human (Ilsa, sacrificed inside the maiden) is a huge liability...

- JR

[manwiththemachinegun]

The Conqueror Worm is one of the Ogdru Hem.

BTW, manwiththemachinegun, is the username a reference to Laguna Loire? If so, ROCK ON.

Wow, a VIP response? COOL! I'm liking the board more and more by the minute. :D Thanks for bringing it to my attention Juno.

Ah, okay, so the Worm is one of the various Ogdru Hem without a body? As was mentioned in The Island?

[Rachel Edidin]

Wow, a VIP response? COOL! I'm liking the board more and more by the minute. :D Thanks for bringing it to my attention Juno.

*snerk* Yeah, not so much. I'm an assistant editor, which effectively rules out the VI, and P alone just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Ah, okay, so the Worm is one of the various Ogdru Hem without a body? As was mentioned in The Island?

Pretty much, yes (although it got pretty well embodied at Hunte Castle).

[Ken O]

*snerk* Yeah, not so much. I'm an assistant editor, which effectively rules out the VI, and P alone just doesn't have the same ring to it.




Woooooo manwiththemachinegun you got a response from THE P!!