Kamandi

[Senormac]

This book is one of my favs. Somehow I don't feel like it gets enough credit. Anyone know why? Its Kirby......its early 70's......and I think the storyline is pretty good. Maybe there were just too many issues of each number produced. I like it much better than New Gods, Mr. Miracle, or the Demon.......just wonderin what people thought about it.

[Blackhawkk]

It does get credit. It was Kirby's most successful DC series. Not his favorite I believe and was sorely disappointed that all his 4th World comics were cancelled. I like it too and have a complete set.

[Red Oak Kid]

I also think Kamandi was one of the best things Kirby did at DC. My two favorite Kirby books at DC were New Gods and Kamandi. I liked the idea of Kamandi and his world. Kamandi suffered a bit from Kirby's breakneck flood of menaces for Kamandi to face each issue. If there had been some kind of regulator on Kirby's pacing and each idea could have been explored at a slower pace, it would have been even better IMO.

I quit reading Kamandi when Kirby left, which was probably a mistake. I've read a few post Kirby Kamandi's and they seem to have fleshed out the characters and Kamandi's world.

[Alex Dragon]

The reason it probably doesn't get much credit is because you can't really weave Kamandi into the regular DC Universe so he hasn' been able to get much exposure over the years. Kirby's NEW GODS and various other characters are set in present day and over the years creators who were fans of those characters have been able to incorporate them into the DCU. Kamandi is set in the future and DC seems to favor the future of the Legion as it's "official" future. I'm sure if Kamandi had superpowers and a flashy costume they'd figure out a way to bring him to the present but basically he's just a boy in an incredible situation. If his character was placed in the regular DCU he really wouldn't be anything special.

[Alex Dragon]

I quit reading Kamandi when Kirby left, which was probably a mistake. I've read a few post Kirby Kamandi's and they seem to have fleshed out the characters and Kamandi's world.

I didn't even know Kamandi as a series went on after Kirby left. Who did the writing and art after Kirby?

[MDG]

I think Kamandi is probabaly the last Kirby series (and character) that can be considered great.

[benday-dot]

I didn't even know Kamandi as a series went on after Kirby left. Who did the writing and art after Kirby?

It actually went on for quite a while after Kirby left the series. This demonstrates its relative success back in the day, especially, as Aaron points out, as a book with the difficult chore of surviving outside the mainstream DCU.

Kirby's last full issue (doing writing and artwork) was #37. Then he continued to just supply the artwork up to and including issue #40.

Kamandi carried on all the way to issue # 59. Not bad. Like ROK I can't speak to their quality, because I quit along with Kirby. I think Gerry Conway did the writing for a while and then Chic Stone, Keith Giffen as well as Dick Ayers handled the artwork. GCD is down (again!) right now so I can't give anymore specifics.

[benday-dot]

I think Kamandi is probabaly the last Kirby series (and character) that can be considered great.

You are probably right MDG. But there were some very good efforts subsequently. I do like all his stuff after that, simply because I am an ardent adherent to the Kirby style. I am entirely wedded to his whole aesthetical approach to comic books and storytelling.

But not all in the Kirbyverse is equal. Eternals was not as good as New Gods. And Devil Dinosaur was not up to Kamandi's lofty heights. Still I enjoyed both Black Panther and Captain America for Marvel. And 2001, I suspect, to an even greater degree. For PC Silver Star was eccentric standout. But I was even charmed by Super Powers.

[Senormac]

I too agree with MDG.....Kirbys last great series. What at first reminded me of a Planet of the Apes storyline.....quickly moved into a ton of other cool ideas and twists. I particularly liked the stories involving the Chicago robot gangs.....Sackers Ben Hur style race.....and when the Superman suit was discovered. I really thought this one had the potential to get to 100 issues. Guess Kirby was starting to get tired or something. Don't know how sales were....but I'm sure it dropped off when he did.

I think what first hooked me was the map in issue #1. I'm a sucker for maps. :D

[Scott Shaw!]

I think what first hooked me was the map in issue #1. I'm a sucker for maps. :D

That single map contains more possibility-laden ideas than many entire comic book series!

Unfortunately, Jack had more imagination than he had time to put all of his concepts onto paper.

Aloha,

Scott!

[Red Oak Kid]

I agree with all that's been said here.

I like maps too!

I agree that Kamandi was the last great Kirby title. I also agree that it is hard to fit Kamandi into existing DC storylines. But I'm pretty sure Kamandi was in an issue of Brave and Bold.

I know that Conway and Chic Stone did some issues.

Kamandi had a long run compared to any other DC titles, Kirby or non Kirby that began around that time. Which lasted longer, Kamandi or Mister Miracle?

[JKCarrier]

Kamandi had a long run compared to any other DC titles, Kirby or non Kirby that began around that time. Which lasted longer, Kamandi or Mister Miracle?

Kamandi, by a long shot. 59 issues vs. Mister Miracle's 18.

It's interesting to speculate why Kamandi caught on while the other books did not. I suppose it was a little easier to grasp... it was a fairly straightforward adventure yarn, as opposed to the labyrinthine cross-continuity of the 4th World books. And the hero was a handsome, likeable youth instead of the morally ambiguous Orion, the militaristic OMAC, or the outright scary Etrigan.

Plus, talking animals. Everyone likes talking animals. :D

[Senormac]

BTW....Mr. Shaw....I wanted to say that I really appreciated your Esoteric Comic Slide Shows at SDCC in the past. (I sure hope your the right guy....:D )

That was one of my favorite things to sit in on......first time I saw it was at the El Cortez.....was it you back then????

[Captain Jim]

Nothing much new to add. I agree with just about everything that's been said. Probably my favorite Kirby DC comic, and probably his last great comic. And I didn't drop it after Kirby left. It's been years since I read it, but my recollection is that even the post-Kirby issues were pretty good.

[Scott Shaw!]

BTW....Mr. Shaw....I wanted to say that I really appreciated your Esoteric Comic Slide Shows at SDCC in the past. (I sure hope your the right guy....:D )

That was one of my favorite things to sit in on......first time I saw it was at the El Cortez.....was it you back then????

You betcha. I changed the name of the show to ODDBALL COMICS a few decades ago and I now do it digitally. I perform ODDBALL COMICS at the San Diego Comic-Con International every year, annually updated with new "finds".

And, if you follow the link below, you can see more ODDBALL COMICS online than I could EVER fit into a single slideshow presentation.

See you there!

Aloha,

Scott!

[berk]

I must admit that while I like Kamandi, it's never had quite the impact on me that some other Kirby creations have, like the Demon, 2001, New Gods, OMAC, the Eternals (which I rate as just high as the very different New Gods saga, myself). But I've never managed to get together a complete set of Kirby's run on the title, so maybe if I ever do that and sit down to read the whole thing I'll change my mind.

[Babylon23]

I love Kamandi, but it didn't grab me quite the way New Gods did. Obvisouly, they're very different stories, but the epic nature of New Gods grabbed me more.

You have to love Kirby's remarkable imagination. He took what could have been a lame Planet of the Apes knockoff and turned it into something great.

I'd actually say this was Kirby's second-last great Kirby series. The first 12 issues of Eternals are amazing, and I'd consider that Kirby's last masterpiece. It flounders a little after those issues, especially with hte attempts to shoehorn it in to the Marvel U.

Later Kamandi greators included Gerry Conway, Chic Stone, Denny O'Neill, Keith Giffen, Jack Harris and Dick Ayers. The last issue was written and pencilled by Jim Starlin, the issue that links Kamandi directly to OMAC. They're were some good issues here and there, but the series as a whole is uneven post-Kirby.

[Alex Dragon]

I must admit that while I like Kamandi, it's never had quite the impact on me that some other Kirby creations have, like the Demon, 2001, New Gods, OMAC, the Eternals (which I rate as just high as the very different New Gods saga, myself). But I've never managed to get together a complete set of Kirby's run on the title, so maybe if I ever do that and sit down to read the whole thing I'll change my mind.

I've never read Kirby's DEMON so I can't comment on how good I think Kirby's version was but when I read another creator's take on the DEMON I just don't get what the appeal of the character is/was.

[T GUy]

That single map contains more possibility-laden ideas than many entire comic book series!


Always the case with Kirby.

I was particularly disappointed that I never got to see the Mao-Tse Tigers in the Little Red Book Wars.

Now I think of it, I wonder if Kirby had that idea and put it on the map, meaning to get around to it one day, or whether he just thought it sounded good and threw it on the map, knowing that if required he could come up with something.

Unfortunately, Jack had more imagination than he had time to put all of his concepts onto paper.

Hence the occasional acusation that some of his work is rushe dor at breakneck pace.

[MDG]

Unfortunately, Jack had more imagination than he had time to put all of his concepts onto paper.

Hence the occasional acusation that some of his work is rushe dor at breakneck pace.
I wonder what would've happened if DC had bought into Jack's idea of having other artists (I think it was Ditko, Heck and Wood) draw the Fourth World books, with Jack as writer/editor. Would it have given him a chance to think things out and plan better? Or would he have over-thought things and stifled his no-holds-barred imagination?

[berk]

I've never read Kirby's DEMON so I can't comment on how good I think Kirby's version was but when I read another creator's take on the DEMON I just don't get what the appeal of the character is/was.As with so much of Kirby's stuff, I think the appeal of the Demon isn't just in the Demon character himself but in how all the different elements of the whole concept work together: Jason Blood, Merlin, the Demon, Morgan La Fey, and their interconnected history; Jason Blood's friends and colleagues; the widely varied settings, from the everyday world of the modern city to all those underground caverns and sewers that lie beneath it, or the old-world, semi-medieval kingdoms and baronies, etc they somehow find themselves in.

The series is about how all those elements intereact amongst each other ... it's a holistic thing. One of the problems with how a lot of Kirby's work is adapted by later writers is that they tend to just pluck individual characters from the context Kirby created for them, and then plunk them down in the DCU so they can interact with the money-making brand names like batman, etc. So it isn't surprising that a lot of readers are often puzzled as to what the fuss is all about.

Actually though, I think the Demon has fared better than most of Kirby's ideas, with Alan Moore, for example, using the character pretty well in Swamp Thing. Too bad they didn't let Grant Morrison use him in Seven Soldiers, like he apparently wanted to.

[Scott Shaw!]

I wonder what would've happened if DC had bought into Jack's idea of having other artists (I think it was Ditko, Heck and Wood) draw the Fourth World books, with Jack as writer/editor. Would it have given him a chance to think things out and plan better? Or would he have over-thought things and stifled his no-holds-barred imagination?

If DC had allowed Jack to proceed with this plan (which was essentially what happened at Marvel), Jack's first choice -- and a pretty darn good one, in my opinion -- to draw KAMANDI was Dan Spiegle.

Aloha,

Scott!

[Kan-Man]

I don't think you can underestimate the Planet of the Apes connection to explain what drew people to Kamandi. If memory serves, the book was launched at a time when the Apes franchise was still very popular - 5 films, a TV series, a cartoon series, toys, merchandise, etc. I'm a huge Apes fan and I'm pretty sure that's what made me notice Kamandi in the first place.

As far as Demon is concerned, to me that title was the perfect match for Kirby's style. I'm a Kirby fan, but not nearly at the level of many of my esteemed colleagues here. But with Demon, it was perfectly suited for those grotesque characters he illustrated so well - the kind of figures you could imagine Lon Chaney or Boris Karloff playing in some classic horror film.

[Scott Shaw!]

I don't think you can underestimate the Planet of the Apes connection to explain what drew people to Kamandi. If memory serves, the book was launched at a time when the Apes franchise was still very popular - 5 films, a TV series, a cartoon series, toys, merchandise, etc. I'm a huge Apes fan and I'm pretty sure that's what made me notice Kamandi in the first place.

That POTA appeal may be true, but it should be mentioned that Jack came up with the concept of KAMANDI (under a different name) many years (the early 1950s) before the POTA movies and even the French novel by Pierre Boulle that spawned them. There's a reprint of some of his presentation art in the JACK KIRBY retrospective that TwoMorrows reprinted last year. He also did a similar animals-ruling-the-future concept for one of Harvey's comics in the 1950s, probably ALARMING TALES.

Aloha,

Scott!

[Shellhead]

I don't think you can underestimate the Planet of the Apes connection to explain what drew people to Kamandi. If memory serves, the book was launched at a time when the Apes franchise was still very popular - 5 films, a TV series, a cartoon series, toys, merchandise, etc. I'm a huge Apes fan and I'm pretty sure that's what made me notice Kamandi in the first place.


You're right about this, but in my case, I approached Kamandi backwards. I was 7 years old when I bought Kamandi #1, and the main draw was that the main character was a kid like me, more or less. It wasn't until I was maybe 9 years old that the Planet of the Apes stuff entered my world, with the tv show and the Marvel magazine. The Saturday morning cartoon came out a year later, and I finally got to see a couple of the movies in maybe '75 or so.

As I look back on things, Kamandi and the Avengers were my first two favorite comics. But by the end of the second year of Kamandi, I had already become a very serious Marvel zombie and had lost interest in almost everything by DC, including Kamandi. It wasn't that Kamandi had gotten bad, it's just that I associated it with a younger version of myself and felt like I needed to outgrow it.

[Kan-Man]

That POTA appeal may be true, but it should be mentioned that Jack came up with the concept of KAMANDI (under a different name) many years (the early 1950s) before the POTA movies and even the French novel by Pierre Boulle that spawned them. There's a reprint of some of his presentation art in the JACK KIRBY retrospective that TwoMorrows reprinted last year. He also did a similar animals-ruling-the-future concept for one of Harvey's comics in the 1950s, probably ALARMING TALES.

Aloha,

Scott!

I didn't mean to suggest Kirby ripped off POTA, I just meant at a very young age the concept seemed similar to me.

[Kan-Man]

I was 7 years old when I bought Kamandi #1, and the main draw was that the main character was a kid like me, more or less.

You didn't run around shirtless in cut-offs, did you?

[benday-dot]

I wonder what would've happened if DC had bought into Jack's idea of having other artists (I think it was Ditko, Heck and Wood) draw the Fourth World books, with Jack as writer/editor. Would it have given him a chance to think things out and plan better? Or would he have over-thought things and stifled his no-holds-barred imagination?

This is precisly the question I've often wondered. It was a difficult situation for Kirby, a situation very much a predicament of his times. In Kirby's mind, and in the mind of many of his supporters, the plotting contributions he perenially provided the landmark stories on which he partnered with Lee, were every bit of the writing as Stan's dialogue. And yet there always seemed to be a question from the establishment, the powers that be, as to whether Kirby ever ought entertain "delusions" of stretching his creative muscles beyond that of artist/plotter. That he didn'y have the chops to be writer, despite the fact he had been doing so decades already.

Kirby pehaps felt the imperative to do it all initially. I don't suspect he felt insecure, but he may have had something to prove to the doubters. In those first dozen issues or so of the Fourth World titles perhaps there was an overiding need not to relinquish any sovereignty on his creation... to become at last an auteur, and be fully himself.

This propulsive need to create and create some more... to put all ideas down as they sprung from the cosmos of his imagination, may have exacted the price of this helter skelter plotting. But given the times, the personal history, the predicament he knew could he have done any less? Proceeded any differently than he did?

We'll never know, because DC aborted his great project before it gained the stability to be passed onto other talented hands. Maybe this only proves Kirby's instinct that it was all so very necesarry to let each idea explode forth before his brilliant day gave way to night.

[Senormac]

Anyone know why Kirby quit doing Kamandi?

Also, is it right to place Kamandi as #3 in the Kirby longevity books, behind Fantastic Four and Thor?

[Kan-Man]

That he didn't have the chops to be writer, despite the fact he had been doing so decades already.

I know you're a great admirer of his, what do you think of him as a writer?

[benday-dot]

I know you're a great admirer of his, what do you think of him as a writer?

Not surprisingly, Kan-Man I think he's a wonderful comic book writer. The words he puts into those balloons and captions are a perfect match for the magnificent drawings he places upon a page. I reject the criticism that Kirby is burdened by a stilted artifice in his dialogue. I very much think Jack preserves that potent sense of the mythic befitting the grandeur of his unique conceptions. It is sadly, a style of writing long since fallen from favour. Kirby's is a style that stirs rather than deflates. Rather than grasp for that snappy, yet spiritless dialogue that mimics the latest action movie Kirby places his voice properly in that majestic milieu to which he invites the ever awed reader. Brian Michael Bendis he is definitely not. Bendis, who has his graces, actually, to my eye, is sometimes more gulity of sucumbing to that strange body of speech I can only call artificial realism.

Many times, while poring over the Kirby Collector, or other publications, I have looked at those initial portions of dialogue that Kirby penciled in his panels before submission to his partner Stan Lee. More than a few times I have prefered the words Kirby chose to grace his panels to those final revisions cemented in place by Lee.

[Kirk G]

I didn't mean to suggest Kirby ripped off POTA, I just meant at a very young age the concept seemed similar to me.

I believe Kamandi was supposed to be similar in concept to POTA, but not exactly. It was designed to appeal to the same segment, but be noticably different. And to the extent that it was different, it was Kirby's.

I don't know how many issues he championed or was behind, but DC finally pulled the plug on it... I suspect because of sales. The concept of talking animals appeals to a particular age group and after a few years, they grow out of it as other interests develop...
A concept of superpowered humans, who's adventures are new and different and don't tend to repeat... well, that's a pretty good description of the FF, the Avengers, and The Challengers of the Unknown (to an extent)...and by extension, Thor as well... except there was some repetition in all of the above.

As far as DC letting Jack sit back and be editor, well I doubt it would have happened, unless his fourth world had suddenly broken all sales records. He was TOO strong as an artist and layout man, and THAT's the magic that DC thought they were buying when they imported him. They wanted to steal the magic from Marvel... and only got half of the team that had developed and breathed life and appeal into the FF...

[Kan-Man]

Not surprisingly, Kan-Man I think he's a wonderful comic book writer. The words he puts into those balloons and captions are a perfect match for the magnificent drawings he places upon a page. I reject the criticism that Kirby is burdened by a stilted artifice in his dialogue. I very much think Jack preserves that potent sense of the mythic befitting the grandeur of his unique conceptions. It is sadly, a style of writing long since fallen from favour. Kirby's is a style that stirs rather than deflates. Rather than grasp for that snappy, yet spiritless dialogue that mimics the latest action movie Kirby places his voice properly in that majestic milieu to which he invites the ever awed reader. Brian Michael Bendis he is definitely not. Bendis, who has his graces, actually, to my eye, is sometimes more gulity of sucumbing to that strange body of speech I can only call artificial realism.

Many times, while poring over the Kirby Collector, or other publications, I have looked at those initial portions of dialogue that Kirby penciled in his panels before submission to his partner Stan Lee. More than a few times I have prefered the words Kirby chose to grace his panels to those final revisions cemented in place by Lee.

Okay, now I'm going to put you on the spot...

What's your favorite title or issue Kirby wrote?

What's your favorite title or issue Kirby drew?

[Mark Evanier]

Anyone know why Kirby quit doing Kamandi?

ME: He quit DC.

[Senormac]

That must be the "fat free" answer Mark :D

I mean there must be more to the story than that? Course if its private personal Kirby business, I can accept that....its just that it didn't seem like he really went on to anything else......at least not that I followed.

Dang Kamandi was a good read. The only thing that has given me that same kind of feel has been Schultz' Xenozoic Tales and that book has slowed to almost none existent publication pace.

[JKCarrier]

its just that it didn't seem like he really went on to anything else......at least not that I followed.

He went back to Marvel and did Captain America, Black Panther, Eternals, Devil Dinosaur, etc.

[T GUy]

That POTA appeal may be true, but it should be mentioned that Jack came up with the concept of KAMANDI (under a different name) many years (the early 1950s) before the POTA movies and even the French novel by Pierre Boulle that spawned them. There's a reprint of some of his presentation art in the JACK KIRBY retrospective that TwoMorrows reprinted last year. He also did a similar animals-ruling-the-future concept for one of Harvey's comics in the 1950s, probably ALARMING TALES.

Alarming Tales No. 1, 'The Last Enemy.'

I'm glad someone else has seen this, because I'm getting somewhat tired of constantly pointing out to people that it predates Boulle's novel by half-a-dozen years.

Have you noticed that the differences between the novel and film of PotA make it look like the filmmakers acquired the rights, as I believe they say in Hollywood, to 'The Last Enemy'?

What's the title of the retrospective reprinted by TwoMorrows? I can't recall hearing of it before.

[Scott Shaw!]

What's the title of the retrospective reprinted by TwoMorrows? I can't recall hearing of it before.

It's titled KIRBY UNLEASHED and is a must for any Kirby kollector. It's a reprint (with a fair amount of additional material) from our friends at TwoMorrows of a tabloid-sized retrospective publication published by the Kirbys themselves back in 1971. TwoMorrows currently has it on sale for $17.00 and is, in my opinion, quite inspiring and a real bargain. Ooh, lotsa color, too!

http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=64&products_id=265

Aloha,

Scott!

[benday-dot]

Okay, now I'm going to put you on the spot...

What's your favorite title or issue Kirby wrote?

What's your favorite title or issue Kirby drew?

You know how to ask the tough ones Kan-Man.

There wasn't much for which Kirby simply provided the dialogue sans the art. So the two answers for me are best conflated into the one. Mine is the probably the choice that would show up frequently among many Kirby fans, especially with those partial to Jack's post 1970 work.

I would choose New Gods #6, the great "Glory Boat" issue.

To pick an issue based on art alone is very tough... there are so many stunning examples. But a two personal favourites of mine would be either FF Anual #6, which features a magnificent crafted Negative Zone tale, highlighting a lot of Kirby machinery, rocks, energy crackle, monsters, coldness of space, intense battle scenes and not a little humanity thrown in besides. Yes, either that one or the Treasury sized 2001: A Space Odyssey "adaptation"... that oversized book is droolwortjy for a Kirby fan.

I change my mind on this question so often!

[Babylon23]

I like the way you think Benday-dot. 'Glory Boat' is my absolute favourite Kirby-penned story (followed closely by 'The Deathwish of Terrible Turpin').

There's so much amazing Kirby art to choose from, but the 2001 Treasury adaptation would be close to my favourite. I'm also a huge fan of the Galactus story from Thor 160-162 & 168-169. Plus, it's hard to go past the Kirby/Wood collaborations on Skymasters and Challengers of the Unknown.

[Kan-Man]

You know how to ask the tough ones Kan-Man.

There wasn't much for which Kirby simply provided the dialogue sans the art. So the two answers for me are best conflated into the one. Mine is the probably the choice that would show up frequently among many Kirby fans, especially with those partial to Jack's post 1970 work.

I would choose New Gods #6, the great "Glory Boat" issue.

To pick an issue based on art alone is very tough... there are so many stunning examples. But a two personal favourites of mine would be either FF Anual #6, which features a magnificent crafted Negative Zone tale, highlighting a lot of Kirby machinery, rocks, energy crackle, monsters, coldness of space, intense battle scenes and not a little humanity thrown in besides. Yes, either that one or the Treasury sized 2001: A Space Odyssey "adaptation"... that oversized book is droolwortjy for a Kirby fan.

I change my mind on this question so often!

Yeah, it was a little unfair of me but your posts are always so well thought out and there's such passion in your writing that I knew I'd get more than just a laundry list of titles and numbers.

[MichikoS]

I ran across this cover solicit recently. Perhaps it will stimulate interest in a new ongoing Kamandi series?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/michiko_s/kamandi.jpg

Countdown Special Kamandi 80 Page Giant. Summary: Written by Jack Kirby Art by Kirby, Mike Royer and D. Bruce Berry Cover by Ryan Sook Collecting stories from KAMANDI: LAST BOY ON EARTH #1, #10 and #29, written and illustrated by Jack Kirby! On sale April 2. 80 pg, FC, $4.99 US

Michi

[benday-dot]

I ran across this cover solicit recently. Perhaps it will stimulate interest in a new ongoing Kamandi series?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/michiko_s/kamandi.jpg

Countdown Special Kamandi 80 Page Giant. Summary: Written by Jack Kirby Art by Kirby, Mike Royer and D. Bruce Berry Cover by Ryan Sook Collecting stories from KAMANDI: LAST BOY ON EARTH #1, #10 and #29, written and illustrated by Jack Kirby! On sale April 2. 80 pg, FC, $4.99 US

Michi

I wonder what the motivation for putting out such a one-shot would be. Two volumes of Archives have already come out in the last while covering most of this material (I think, at any rate. I had volume one, but sold it.) This seems sort of random. Maybe something is in the works for an ongoing?

[Kirk G]

You know how to ask the tough ones Kan-Man.

There wasn't much for which Kirby simply provided the dialogue sans the art. So the two answers for me are best conflated into the one. Mine is the probably the choice that would show up frequently among many Kirby fans, especially with those partial to Jack's post 1970 work.

I would choose New Gods #6, the great "Glory Boat" issue.

To pick an issue based on art alone is very tough... there are so many stunning examples. But a two personal favourites of mine would be either FF Anual #6, which features a magnificent crafted Negative Zone tale, highlighting a lot of Kirby machinery, rocks, energy crackle, monsters, coldness of space, intense battle scenes and not a little humanity thrown in besides. Yes, either that one or the Treasury sized 2001: A Space Odyssey "adaptation"... that oversized book is droolwortjy for a Kirby fan.

I change my mind on this question so often!

Is that the one where Sue gives birth to Franklin? Or was that the annual before?
As I recall,
Annual #1 Submariner Invades the Surface World
Annual #2 Doctor Doom
Annual #3 Vinal Victory of Doctor Doom & Marriage of Reed & Sue
Annual #4 Original Human Torch
Annual #5 Pyscho Man, Black Panther & Inhumans
Annual #6 Birth of Franklin/Annilius

Am I right, or are there any corrections to this list?

[dan bailey]

I wonder what the motivation for putting out such a one-shot would be. Two volumes of Archives have already come out in the last while covering most of this material (I think, at any rate. I had volume one, but sold it.) This seems sort of random. Maybe something is in the works for an ongoing?

DC's devoted quite a few such one-shots lately to any character who can be tied into this ongoing Countdown to Final Crisis mess, which apparently includes Kamandi, however tangentially.

They've done, for instance, giants devoted to Jimmy Olsen, to Ray Palmer, I think to the New Gods, to Kirby's Omac, & probably about a half-dozen others. I think I saw a listing today for a Sinestro issue.

[dan bailey]

Fershlugginer double post.

[Captain Jim]

He went back to Marvel and did Captain America, Black Panther, Eternals, Devil Dinosaur, etc.

And personally, I don't think any of those were half as good as his DC work.

[Senormac]

Yea.....I agree. It's kind of like...."Well, I quit DC......doing a book that I created and is 100% my story and artwork.....and am going to do some fill in issues and a couple of other less than stimulating comics for Marvel....cuz I need the money".....

I lean towards thinking .....whatever happened.....it was a mistake :(

[Slam_Bradley]

I wonder what the motivation for putting out such a one-shot would be. Two volumes of Archives have already come out in the last while covering most of this material (I think, at any rate. I had volume one, but sold it.) This seems sort of random. Maybe something is in the works for an ongoing?

DC's devoted quite a few such one-shots lately to any character who can be tied into this ongoing Countdown to Final Crisis mess, which apparently includes Kamandi, however tangentially.

They've done, for instance, giants devoted to Jimmy Olsen, to Ray Palmer, I think to the New Gods, to Kirby's Omac, & probably about a half-dozen others. I think I saw a listing today for a Sinestro issue.

Agreed, Dan. This is aimed at someone who wants a taste of Kamandi because he's the flavor of the week in the "hot" new comic. Very few people are going to go out and buy a $30+ Archive to get a feel for a character they're just discovering. But they may drop a fiver.

[JKCarrier]

I lean towards thinking .....whatever happened.....it was a mistake :(

I don't think things would have been much different if he'd stayed at DC. We would've gotten a bit more Kamandi, which would've been nice, but all his other titles had been cancelled. Any new books he came up with would have been similar to the things he ended up doing at Marvel. Maybe he would have done a new Challengers of the Unknown, or took a crack at Aquaman or Wonder Woman or something, but I doubt they would have sold any better than his Captain America or Black Panther.

[berk]

As I've said before, I don't see the best of Kirby's 70s work at Marvel as inferior to the DC stuff. But whatever your opinion of their respective merits, I think the message from Kirby's experience at both DC and Marvel was that neither business provided him with the environment he needed to express himself creatively. The same pattern made itself apparent at both companies: it started with enthusiasm on the part of his employers at the prestige that accrued to them from having this comic legend working for them, and that would manifest itself in a large degree of creative freedom given to Kirby at the outset. Then his employers and most of their readers would become disillusioned as they saw the work this legend was giving them didn't fit in with their (IMO dismally limited) view of what contemporary comics should be. IOW they just didn't get it. So they'd pressure Kirby to conform to the expected pattern, resulting in adulterated stories, neither Kirby nor Marvel/DC; disllusionment for Kirby as he saw his work unappreciated and his creative freedom taken away; weaker stories from a discouraged creator, and finally cancellation, and Kirby's departure.

[MDG]

As I've said before, I don't see the best of Kirby's 70s work at Marvel as inferior to the DC stuff. But whatever your opinion of their respective merits, I think the message from Kirby's experience at both DC and Marvel was that neither business provided him with the environment he needed to express himself creatively.
Well, consider that while the Simon and Kirby studios were open, Joe and Jack were usually independent packagers who put together their own projects with, I would imagine, a fair amount of editorial freedom. And while he was ostensibly an "artist for hire" at Atlas and Marvel, creatively he just about had free reign. The environment at DC was very different, with strong editors used to calling the shots.

Add to that that he was working without a strong collaborator (like Simon or Lee) and was on the west coast, removed from the office politics at DC (which by some accounts seemed pretty significant)--it's almost surprising he was able to accomplish as much as he did.

[Red Oak Kid]

I ran across this cover solicit recently. Perhaps it will stimulate interest in a new ongoing Kamandi series?

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/michiko_s/kamandi.jpg

Countdown Special Kamandi 80 Page Giant. Summary: Written by Jack Kirby Art by Kirby, Mike Royer and D. Bruce Berry Cover by Ryan Sook Collecting stories from KAMANDI: LAST BOY ON EARTH #1, #10 and #29, written and illustrated by Jack Kirby! On sale April 2. 80 pg, FC, $4.99 US

Michi

Does anyone besides me think it is odd that this book wouldn't have cover art by Kirby?

[dan bailey]

Does anyone besides me think it is odd that this book wouldn't have cover art by Kirby?

My impression, based purely on not-very-interested glances at my LCS, is that all the Countdown-related giants feature a pretty much uniform cover format ... quite possibly even by the same artist.

(As those of you who know me are undoubtedly all too aware, if DC had decided to employ the classic 80-Page Giant cover format from the '60s, I'd be buying every one of the suckers on general principle.)

[Red Oak Kid]

What is DC Counting Down to?

The Return of Bat Lash?

A Prez,Brother Power the Geek Team-Up?

[dan bailey]

The Return of Bat Lash?

Hey, he's already back, at least for a miniseries. John Severin's doing the art; Sergio Aragones is co-writing. Four (I think) issues in, I'm quite happy.

[berk]

It's a nice cover, but very misleading if they're putting on a reprint of Kirby's Kamandi. I think a lot of readers would be disappointed at the interior if they bought this shrink-wrapped or ordered it over the web becasuse they liked the cover and heard it was a classic that tied in to the latest DC mega-event.

[edit:]although I must say, that gun looks out of place somehow; I'm not up on Kamandi that much - did he ever use a gun in the series? Just doesn't look right, for some reason.

[Rob Allen]

As I've said before, I don't see the best of Kirby's 70s work at Marvel as inferior to the DC stuff. But whatever your opinion of their respective merits, I think the message from Kirby's experience at both DC and Marvel was that neither business provided him with the environment he needed to express himself creatively.

You're right about that. I wonder if there was a good place for Kirby in the 1970s. It occurred to me recently that it would have been interesting if he had gone with Sol Brodsky. The two of them left Marvel within a few months of each other. If Brodsky & Waldman had offered Kirby a share of their new company, the Fourth World and In the Days of the Mob and all the rest would have been Skywald comics (or Skywaldby, or Kirwaldsky, or whatever they decided to call it). That might have been really interesting.

[Red Oak Kid]

You're right about that. I wonder if there was a good place for Kirby in the 1970s. It occurred to me recently that it would have been interesting if he had gone with Sol Brodsky. The two of them left Marvel within a few months of each other. If Brodsky & Waldman had offered Kirby a share of their new company, the Fourth World and In the Days of the Mob and all the rest would have been Skywald comics (or Skywaldby, or Kirwaldsky, or whatever they decided to call it). That might have been really interesting.

I agree with your basic premise that there probably wasn't a place in the 70s for Kirby to fully explore all the things he wanted to in graphic storytelling.

But being realistic, Skywald, Tower and King comics just didn't have the distribution network that could compete with that of Marvel and DC. In newstand comics, distribution was as important or possibly more important than the quality of your books.

And yes, Kamandi carried a pistol at all times.

[JKCarrier]

You're right about that. I wonder if there was a good place for Kirby in the 1970s.

My "what if" fantasy has Kirby hooking up with the underground publishing movement, and the Fourth World books sitting next to Mr. Natural and the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers in head shops all over the country. :eek:

[Scott Shaw!]

My "what if" fantasy has Kirby hooking up with the underground publishing movement, and the Fourth World books sitting next to Mr. Natural and the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers in head shops all over the country. :eek:

Your fantasy isn't all that far-fetched! Although Jack wasn't the target audience -- and I'm sure he didn't read more than a handful of underground "comix" -- he was extremely supportive of cartoonists "doing their own thing" in unexplored areas. I was writing and drawing comix when I first met Jack, and he was very encouraging to me, even after I drew a pornographic take on that "No Human Can Beat Me!" cover of STRANGE TALES -- and dedicated it to him! In general, Jack seemed to enjoy the counterculture of the late 60s/early 70s, even if he didn't participate in it himself. I think he primarily dug the optimism that "young people" embraced at the time. Hence, THE FOREVER PEOPLE represented that admirable ideal, minus the sex and drugs.

(Another middle-aged, "overground" cartoonist who enjoyed the hippie movement was Dan DeCarlo. And despite his age, the great Sam Glanzman was something of a hippie himself!)

Probably the closest Jack ever got to doing an underground of his own was the unpublished tabloid, UNCLE CARMINE'S FAT CITY. He wrote and drew a two-page sample of a sexy sci-fi series, "Galaxy Green". Steve Ditko also did a sample for the Mark Evanier/Steve Sherman "U.C.F.C." presentation to the DC brass (who reportedly didn't know what to make of it!)

Aloha,

Scott!

[Scott Shaw!]

Here's the second page of "Galaxy Green"; it was inked and toned (the tabloid was to have been in B&W) by Mike Royer.

http://www.twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/20galgreen.html

I think my friend Greg Pharis, owner of San Diego Comics, still owns the original for the first page of "Galaxy Green".

Aloha,

Scott!

[MDG]

And despite his age, the great Sam Glanzman was something of a hippie himself!
He always struck me more as a biker-type. I'm pretty sure he still drove a motorcycle in the 80s. (I was a little surprised that he drew himself with his pony tail in A Sailor's Story--wouldn't that be against regulations?)

He wrote and drew a two-page sample of a sexy sci-fi series, "Galaxy Green".
Both pages are in Clean Cartoonists' Dirty Drawings

[Kirk G]

My "what if" fantasy has Kirby hooking up with the underground publishing movement, and the Fourth World books sitting next to Mr. Natural and the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers in head shops all over the country. :eek:

To my mind, that is what Destroyer Duck is all about...:eek:

[Kirk G]

Here's the second page of "Galaxy Green"; it was inked and toned (the tabloid was to have been in B&W) by Mike Royer.

http://www.twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/20galgreen.html


Now THAT is DISTURBING... I can't imagine why he thought that was going to fly.. (no pun intended.)
I had always heard that Big Barda was based upon Ros, but she looked NOTHING like these dames...:rolleyes: God, what angles, what perspective!:eek:

[Kirk G]

even after I drew a pornographic take on that "No Human Can Beat Me!" cover of STRANGE TALES --Scott!

Hey, where can I get a glimpse of this thing? Both the original, and the porno version tribute?

Is there a link? Has it appeared in Kirby Collector? Or elsewhere?

[Erik Larsen]

This book is one of my favs. Somehow I don't feel like it gets enough credit. Anyone know why? Its Kirby......its early 70's......and I think the storyline is pretty good. Maybe there were just too many issues of each number produced. I like it much better than New Gods, Mr. Miracle, or the Demon.......just wonderin what people thought about it.

I thought it was awesome!

[Scott Shaw!]

Hey, where can I get a glimpse of this thing? Both the original, and the porno version tribute?

Is there a link? Has it appeared in Kirby Collector? Or elsewhere?

Here's STRANGE TALES No. 98, the "inspiration" for my take-off:

http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=17048&zoom=4

Between that monster's pose, his dialog and the new title of DERANGED TALES, it doesn't take a sophisticated imagination to intuit what twisted road my version went down.

Aloha,

Scott!

[Senormac]

I thought it was awesome!

You have superior taste brother .....superior !

[benday-dot]

Now THAT is DISTURBING... I can't imagine why he thought that was going to fly.. (no pun intended.)
I had always heard that Big Barda was based upon Ros, but she looked NOTHING like these dames...:rolleyes: God, what angles, what perspective!:eek:

Okay. Now I think that Galaxy Green page that Scott posted from the Kirby Collector is just wonderful. I would have published it at once, were I in the position to. Ever since I first saw it in that Kirby Colector I bemoaned the fact that the likes of Galaxy Green lay among those melancholy hordes of Kirby pages resting and waiting in comic book limbo.

[berk]

Okay. Now I think that Galaxy Green page that Scott posted from the Kirby Collector is just wonderful. I would have published it at once, were I in the position to. Ever since I first saw it in that Kirby Colector I bemoaned the fact that the likes of Galaxy Green lay among those melancholy hordes of Kirby pages resting and waiting in comic book limbo.Yeah, I always thought the artwork looked great, although just two pages is too brief to give much idea of what the concept was all about.

[Senormac]

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/michiko_s/kamandi.jpg


As much as I like Kirby.....this artwork looks pretty good to me. Kamandi looks alot younger than Kirby's did. Kinda skinny and teenager like. But is that a BAT flying around in the background???

[Mark Evanier]

Probably the closest Jack ever got to doing an underground of his own was the unpublished tabloid, UNCLE CARMINE'S FAT CITY. He wrote and drew a two-page sample of a sexy sci-fi series, "Galaxy Green". Steve Ditko also did a sample for the Mark Evanier/Steve Sherman "U.C.F.C." presentation to the DC brass (who reportedly didn't know what to make of it!)

ME: To be historically accurate, the project containing Galaxy Green and the Ditko strip was called SUPERWORLD and there was really nothing "underground" about it with regard to format, content or even distribution. UNCLE CARMINE'S FAT CITY was a separate idea that never went any farther than a couple of conversations, plus Steve and I designed a logo for it. Jack had this idea about doing a line of tabloid newspapers with comics (and other features) in them. SUPERWORLD, which we did the presentation for, would have been the "above-ground" tabloid, and then Jack wanted to do one using the kind of talent he was seeing in undergrounds of the day.

[Scott Shaw!]

Thanks for the clarification, M.E.! I'd entirely forgotten about the SUPERWORLD title and confused the two projects.

But you've gotta admit, in retrospect, with phallic rayguns, that flying spread-shot and "Male Hormoans", "Galaxy Green" sure SEEMS like an underground funnybook.

Aloha,

Scott!

[Froggy]

ME: To be historically accurate, the project containing Galaxy Green and the Ditko strip was called SUPERWORLD and there was really nothing "underground" about it with regard to format, content or even distribution. UNCLE CARMINE'S FAT CITY was a separate idea that never went any farther than a couple of conversations, plus Steve and I designed a logo for it. Jack had this idea about doing a line of tabloid newspapers with comics (and other features) in them. SUPERWORLD, which we did the presentation for, would have been the "above-ground" tabloid, and then Jack wanted to do one using the kind of talent he was seeing in undergrounds of the day.

thanks for the info Mr Evanier

and cool to see that you post here!

[Senormac]

In case anyone is interested.....

Whole set of Kamandis on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/KAMANDI-LAST-BOY-DC-COMIC-LOT1-59-FULL-RUN-JACK-KIRBY_W0QQitemZ230232094818QQihZ013QQcategoryZ1552 85QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[Scott Shaw!]

Here's that proto-KAMANDI Kirby story, "The Last Enemy" (that was mentioned earlier) in its entirity:

http://cartoonsnap.blogspot.com/search/label/Jack%20Kirby

Aloha,

Scott!

[Sherm]

Hey, Scott...thanks for posting that link to the Proto-Kamandi Kirby story on my blog! I was so excited when I found that comic, so I'm glad to see other Kirby fans are diggin' it! --Sherm

[Froggy]

that's a awesome story kirby did...........

[Aaron King]

Just to clear up the story behind that upcoming Kamandi reprint (I didn't see anyone else talking about it), DC has been doing a bunch of those alongside Countdown since Countdown is using* a lot of concepts from the sixties and seventies. They've done The Flash, The Atom, Jimmy Olsen, Omac, Eclipso, New Gods, and maybe a few others. The covers are all by Ryan Sook, a talented man.

*I say "using;" I think most would say "ruining." I dunno. I dropped the series after a month's worth of issues.

[Sean Walsh]

They've done The Flash, The Atom, Jimmy Olsen, Omac, Eclipso, New Gods, and maybe a few others. The covers are all by Ryan Sook, a talented man.[/SIZE]

Oddly enough, the Eclipso ish is stuff from the 1990's Giffen/Fleming series - the issue with Darkseid, and the final issue & crossover into Spectre where they destroyed Eclipso "forever."

I saw the Kamandi issue yesterday, and I desire it muchly now....