WWLA: The X-Men Panel

[Flâneur]

Astonishing X-Men must be self-contained because it is always late for whatever reasons. However, a basic team book is not an identity. You can also describe any other team book that is late with this definition.
The second reason is that they have the hotshot writers on there whom they're trying to give free rein so that they can get their top stories out there. Millar's FF, Bendis' Alias and Ellis' Planetary are all examples of this.

Uncanny X-Men has a large rotating cast because it replaces writer every few years. The change does not come from the organic growth of characters leaving & replacing others with the writer staying on the book. Essentially, Uncanny X-Men has become unstable due to the writer's shift every few years. The editors are also mandating change with no rhyme or reason when a new writer comes aboard. It's like Chris Claremont's 17 years run on Uncanny X-Men without the depth, character development, & the logical change on steroids.
Every book in this industry changes hands every couple of years unless it's creator owned. Those long CC type runs don't exist anywhere anymore, so that's not a reason for the rotating cast and you know it. Please point out exactly how there is less character and depth now without referring to editors.

Punisher X-Men? :rolleyes:
Couldn't you have said the exact same thing about Wolverine ever since his inception? Including the periods CC has written him? He's always been a more violent character so I don't see why you have issues with it now.

"X-Men in training" used to be for The New Mutants, the novice students. However, again, Young X-Men just seems like a confusing concept given Uncanny X-Men, Astonishing X-Men, & X-Men already exist.


How is it confusing? Young X-men is about X-men in training, like the New Mutants, which the core books obviously are not. It's even denoted by the 'Young'. It's no more confusing than having New Mutants and Uncanny X-men run at the same time.

It's only 12 issues. I wouldn't call it experimental at all. Then the book is either cancelled or reverts back to X-Men.
I'm not sure where it's been released what the exact plans and scripts are going to be for the thirteenth issue, could you link me to the scripts and treatments which enlighten you as to how similar this future book will be to Astonishing and Uncanny?

[dotdotdot]

The second reason is that they have the hotshot writers on there whom they're trying to give free rein so that they can get their top stories out there. Millar's FF, Bendis' Alias and Ellis' Planetary are all examples of this.


Every book in this industry changes hands every couple of years unless it's creator owned. Those long CC type runs don't exist anywhere anymore, so that's not a reason for the rotating cast and you know it. Please point out exactly how there is less character and depth now without referring to editors.


Couldn't you have said the exact same thing about Wolverine ever since his inception? Including the periods CC has written him? He's always been a more violent character so I don't see why you have issues with it now.



How is it confusing? Young X-men is about X-men in training, like the New Mutants, which the core books obviously are not. It's even denoted by the 'Young'. It's no more confusing than having New Mutants and Uncanny X-men run at the same time.


I'm not sure where it's been released what the exact plans and scripts are going to be for the thirteenth issue, could you link me to the scripts and treatments which enlighten you as to how similar this future book will be to Astonishing and Uncanny?

thoroughly owned

[RickyD410]

How is it confusing? Young X-men is about X-men in training, like the New Mutants, which the core books obviously are not. It's even denoted by the 'Young'. It's no more confusing than having New Mutants and Uncanny X-men run at the same time.
This is the only part of your post that I disagree with. I thought we were told that this book is NOT about training the X-Men. Its about a team of X-Men that Cyclops assembles to fight the new Brotherhood. From everything we've been told about it, its somehow a mix of New X-Men (just because it has younger characters), X-Force (because its about killing the enemy, not just defeating it), and X-Men (because its a team book fighting X-Men villains). So in that sense, it is confusing at this point. From everything we've been told, it doesnt fit in the streamlined X-Lineup. But then again, we're supposed to be mystified with this one. It supposedly has many tricks up its sleave, and we wont know whats going on until at least after the first arc.
thoroughly owned
If you dont have anything constructive to say, dont say anything at all.

[King Krypton]

Damn...

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m229/wondyfan/gregland.gif

There's a Cassaday swipe in there, too:
http://www.4thletter.net/gregland.gif

[La Fea]

There's a Cassaday swipe in there, too:
http://www.4thletter.net/gregland.gif

Heheh, yeah I noticed that one from her OHOTMU profile.

[DeniseXfrost]

^Terrible, just terrible! I love his colorist tho.

[DeniseXfrost]

Okay, this quote from a Wizard Entertainment article (http://www.wizarduniverse.com/031508wwlaxmenpanel.html)sounds like each issue of Uncanny will have two different stories instead of going bimonthly as was previously speculated. That's interesting, but with two artist for each issue, will it stay on schedule?

And with two writers on the book, Uncanny will begin to split artists on each issue as Greg Land (Ultimate Power) will draw the front half with rotating artists on the back half, starting with the newly Marvel exclusive Terry and Rachel Dodson. Fraction also said that he and Brubaker had plans for something called “The Hellfire Cult.”
The return of hellfire club? Sounds interesting!

[La Fea]

^Terrible, just terrible! I love his colorist tho.

Yeah, the colorist is alright! I dislike how the hair turns out though.

[Pach!]

THAT IS THE CUTEST MOLLY AVATAR EVER!

unless it isn't molly.

[La Fea]

THAT IS THE CUTEST MOLLY AVATAR EVER!

unless it isn't molly.

Of course its Molly!!!

I WANT THAT HAT!!!

[Pyro]

Wow. Putting Greg Land on UXM 500 lowered my anticipation for that issue by 80%. What an awful cover. I don't understand why he can't draw some original poses. It's really not that hard. Someone should give him the How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way book and force him to practice drawing figures.

[frog]

[WWLA] UNCANNY X-MEN GETS MATT-ED UP (http://www.wizarduniverse.com/031808fraction.html)

Another article from Wizard Entertainment. Apparently it's going to be all sex all the time. No wonder they have Greg Land.

[La Fea]

But, all your favorites are going to be there.

Will it really Matthew, will it????

[tunasammiches]

I'm super excited about what they have planned for Excalibur. Can people stop re-designing Storm's costume into yet another two-piece bathing suit? It's not very leader-like.

[We R. Venom]

[WWLA] UNCANNY X-MEN GETS MATT-ED UP (http://www.wizarduniverse.com/031808fraction.html)

Another article from Wizard Entertainment. Apparently it's going to be all sex all the time. No wonder they have Greg Land.

For some reason I'm not as excited anymore.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Can you reveal anything about the lineup?
It’s a really big cast. There are so few of them left that thinking about them as a team isn’t really the way to go anymore. It’s much more like a family. And what we’re doing is that we’re going to put in a lot of people and then each storyline will focus on a group of them. Of course Cyclops will be a huge presence and Wolverine will be a huge presence, but I’ve got characters I want to deal with and I’m sure Ed has characters he wants to deal with, and we’re going to sort of pick and choose. And that lets us tell stories about everyone we want to talk about and not be like, “Well, gee, we can’t work Karma into the story because the team is too big.” I mean, the core team is everybody’s favorites, but the supporting cast is going to be really organic and really interchangeable.

Cyclops and Wolverine are in it. There’s no breath-taking revelation. It’s the best X-Men. It’s the X-Men you want in an X-Men book. There’s a big cast, so we can rotate people in and out as we want. But, all your favorites are going to be there. I can say this: each X-Men epoch has had the teenage girl—Kitty Pryde, Jubilee—and our teenage girl is Pixie, who we both have a tremendous fondness for.

I'm one excited fan!

[timbox]

[WWLA] UNCANNY X-MEN GETS MATT-ED UP (http://www.wizarduniverse.com/031808fraction.html)

Another article from Wizard Entertainment. Apparently it's going to be all sex all the time. No wonder they have Greg Land.


So, I want to see Pixie because we’re just going to put so much through her. She’s really the lens that we’re looking at the team through
...[snip]...Absolutely. Ed and I are clearly putting the sex back in X-Men, I’ll tell you that much for free. We may have gone too far. Here’s the thing: there’s been a mutant birth. And the only one way there’s going to be more births and that’s if all the mutants are doing it. Things explode, everyone has lots of sex and then dies. That’s what’s on the horizon.

I was excited to hear Pixie will be important, but that last question really ruined the whole interview.

[Teh m0nk3y]

Are you a big Cyclops and Emma fan?
Absolutely. Ed and I are clearly putting the sex back in X-Men, I’ll tell you that much for free. We may have gone too far. Here’s the thing: there’s been a mutant birth. And the only one way there’s going to be more births and that’s if all the mutants are doing it. Things explode, everyone has lots of sex and then dies. That’s what’s on the horizon.
Yay!
(10 characters)

[We R. Venom]

That last question ruined the whole interview.

Yeah that and the pixie part. I don't need her shoved down my throat. Another couple years of X-men: Favorites. Yeah that's great.

[Teh m0nk3y]

What character are you most excited for them to draw?
Pixie is sort of going to be our Kitty Pryde or Jubilee. So, I want to see Pixie because we’re just going to put so much through her. She’s really the lens that we’re looking at the team through, so I’m looking forward to seeing how they handle her.
More Pixie? Sweet!

[timbox]

Yeah that and the pixie part.

That's what made it weird. They talk about how Pixie is going to be big, and how the whole book is getting sexed up. Those two things don't really go together.

[jarrod]

Every book in this industry changes hands every couple of years unless it's creator owned. Those long CC type runs don't exist anywhere anymore, so that's not a reason for the rotating cast and you know it.
Being fair, Bendis seems to manage it on USM and the Avengers. So it is happenening somewhere really.

I'm not sure if musical-chairs-with-writers is the core issue for the musical-chairs-with-cast, but I wouldn't discount it out of hand either.


If you dont have anything constructive to say, dont say anything at all.
But then we'd never hear from dotty. ;)

[We R. Venom]

That's what made it weird. They talk about how Pixie is going to be big, and how the whole book is getting sexed up. Those two things don't really go together.

I never liked th fact that jubilee and Kitty were always in the teenage girl side-kick role anyway. It's obvious they are trying to make Pixie so important character. It's the reason I hate them both to this day. Pixie was ok, but I hope not to see too much of her.

[bluedmighty]

Can people stop re-designing Storm's costume into yet another two-piece bathing suit?

IKR :Booooooo:

And are those "pads" on the lower portion of the bathing suit and on her fore arms?

WTFIU


It's not very leader-like.

That, sir, may be the point.

It's not very Queen-like or particularly royal either.

[DDM]

The second reason is that they have the hotshot writers on there whom they're trying to give free rein so that they can get their top stories out there. Millar's FF, Bendis' Alias and Ellis' Planetary are all examples of this.

Astonishing X-Men was established for Joss Whedon; however, he has never defined his X-Men book. Warren Ellis is inheriting Astonishing X-Men, but he can either be hot or cold considering his own hatred for mainstream comic books.


Every book in this industry changes hands every couple of years unless it's creator owned. Those long CC type runs don't exist anywhere anymore, so that's not a reason for the rotating cast and you know it. Please point out exactly how there is less character and depth now without referring to editors.

This is a relatively new concept. However, change for change's sake often makes a book unstable. The runs don't exist because the editors want to use hype in place of substance. Good stories take time, usually more than 2-5 years on a book. The neverending rotating writers hurts any book.


Couldn't you have said the exact same thing about Wolverine ever since his inception? Including the periods CC has written him? He's always been a more violent character so I don't see why you have issues with it now.

However, X-Force is a group title under the X-Men banner. X-Men are not murderers,assassins, & not vigilantes. Hence the contradiction with this book's premise.



How is it confusing? Young X-men is about X-men in training, like the New Mutants, which the core books obviously are not. It's even denoted by the 'Young'. It's no more confusing than having New Mutants and Uncanny X-men run at the same time.

Why have Young X-Men when X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, & Astonishing X-Men already exist? Although this is a novice team, the book is called Young X-Men. The title is redundant given the original X-Men were teens when Xavier founded the team. As I said before, the title is confusing given the other three X-Men books already exist.

[darknessatnoon]

Why have Young X-Men when X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, & Astonishing X-Men already exist? Although this is a novice team, the book is called Young X-Men. The title is redundant given the original X-Men were teens when Xavier founded the team. As I said before, the title is confusing given the other three X-Men books already exist.

I don't think the original X-Men are teenagers anymore, so I am missing your point.

[Dagger]

I don't think the original X-Men are teenagers anymore, so I am missing your point.

Yeah, sounds like he's stretching to bitch about something simply because he doesn't like who's writing the books now.

[Brian M.]

Also good stories do not take 2-5 years to form, I'm sorry but that's just horseshit. There have been plenty of great stories told in just 6 issues, 3 issues, 1 issue. Look at the Ultimates 1-6, that was a great story, combine it with the rest of the series and you have some of the best comic books in the last 10 years. You don't like the current crop of writers b/c they don't follow the Claremont storytelling ways. They jump outta the gate going 55mph where it takes Claremont 100 miles to get his engine going.

[Dagger]

Also good stories do not take 2-5 years to form, I'm sorry but that's just horseshit. There have been plenty of great stories told in just 6 issues, 3 issues, 1 issue. Look at the Ultimates 1-6, that was a great story, combine it with the rest of the series and you have some of the best comic books in the last 10 years. You don't like the current crop of writers b/c they don't follow the Claremont storytelling ways. They jump outta the gate going 55mph where it takes Claremont 100 miles to get his engine going.
Plus some of Claremont's greatest stories were the done in one's like this one:
http://mrlcomics.com/uncanny_xmen_covers/uncanny_xmen_cover_183.jpg
and this one:
http://mrlcomics.com/uncanny_xmen_covers/uncanny_xmen_cover_186.jpg

[Brian M.]

Exactly, hell one of the best comics I've read in the last 5-6 years was in Ultimate X-Men

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/micsobo/comics/41.jpg

It was one and done but it was a great story.

[Dagger]

Exactly, hell one of the best comics I've read in the last 5-6 years was in Ultimate X-Men

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/micsobo/comics/41.jpg

It was one and done but it was a great story.
I tear up everytime I read that book. Seriously, Bendis' best work ever outside of his Ult. Spidey and Daredevil stuff.

[tunasammiches]

IKR :Booooooo:

And are those "pads" on the lower portion of the bathing suit and on her fore arms?

WTFIU



That, sir, may be the point.

It's not very Queen-like or particularly royal either.

Isn't she like, in her late 30's already? She should stop dressing like she's in her mid-30's. I liked her Jim Lee silver/ white costume the best. Authoritative shoulder pads and all.

[Brian M.]

I tear up everytime I read that book. Seriously, Bendis' best work ever outside of his Ult. Spidey and Daredevil stuff.

Oh I agree, whenever folks ask me why I read comics, that's one of the issues I give them to read.

[tunasammiches]

Oh I agree, whenever folks ask me why I read comics, that's one of the issues I give them to read.

What happened in that issue again?

[ExodusCloak]

Is that the issue where Wolvey under S.H.E.I.L.D. kills that mutant boy because his power accidently just wiped out his girlfriend, friends, family and neighbours? And there's no other way to help him.

[Brian M.]

Is that the issue where Wolvey under S.H.E.I.L.D. kills that mutant boy because his power accidently just wiped out his girlfriend, friends, family and neighbours? And there's no other way to help him.

Yea. He apprently gives off some toxin that kills everyone around him. Killed the whole town and school. Goes to run off in a cave and Wolverine comes, brings a beer for the kid. They talk a bit, he asks stuff like, if he was one chromosone to the left could he have been an X-Man, says he never got to have sex w/ his g/f...Wolverine kinda gives him the tough shit talk. Then kills him.

Great story.

[Dagger]

Oh I agree, whenever folks ask me why I read comics, that's one of the issues I give them to read.
Agreed. Effing brilliant issue.
Is that the issue where Wolvey under S.H.E.I.L.D. kills that mutant boy because his power accidently just wiped out his girlfriend, friends, family and neighbours? And there's no other way to help him.
That is correct.*touches nipple*

[dotdotdot]

Astonishing X-Men was established for Joss Whedon; however, he has never defined his X-Men book. Warren Ellis is inheriting Astonishing X-Men, but he can either be hot or cold considering his own hatred for mainstream comic books.


to literally everyone else whedon has indeed defined his x-men book. it's the one that most closely follows morrison's run, for one. you're all alone in this opinion.
and everyone constantly bitches about this ellis quote where he slags on superhero books, yet there is a great wolverine run, authority, planetary, nextwave, ultimate ff, etc etc etc. they were all mainstream and involved superheroes. even if they critiqued the genre with their content, they did so lovingly. hell, planetary is one huge tribute.


This is a relatively new concept. However, change for change's sake often makes a book unstable. The runs don't exist because the editors want to use hype in place of substance. Good stories take time, usually more than 2-5 years on a book. The neverending rotating writers hurts any book.


the critique of "_______ for _______'s sake" never ever holds up. and no good runs take that long. good stories take 2 year runs, max. if you ever get a run longer than that, it's just bonus. and if the writer turns out to be not so great a match, then you don't let him stick around for 3 years to write consistently shit stories, you get someone else. just awful logic and you know it.


However, X-Force is a group title under the X-Men banner. X-Men are not murderers,assassins, & not vigilantes. Hence the contradiction with this book's premise.

they are now. it's only a contradiction to extreme nitpicky old-hat fans like yourself who constantly have to point out the fact that they've read issue 123 as if anyone cares. your x-men have changed. deal with it.



Why have Young X-Men when X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, & Astonishing X-Men already exist? Although this is a novice team, the book is called Young X-Men. The title is redundant given the original X-Men were teens when Xavier founded the team. As I said before, the title is confusing given the other three X-Men books already exist.

this simply makes zero sense. there is nothing confusing about the title. none of the other teams are "young". this one is. if there had been 4 other books when the original teen x-men book came out, it would have been called something similar. you completely failed at constructing an argument in every way here.

man i was bored to even respond to this. it was fun.

[Imraith Nimphais]

So...She's cute as a button (apparently)...does mass transit teleports...carries a soul-dagger...(not a sword, not an axe...a dagger)...M. E. H! Can someone please tell me why do we NEED another teenage-girlie sidekick? And would she not be better suited to YXM?

[Brian M.]

So...She's cute as a button (apparently)...does mass transit teleports...carries a soul-dagger...(not a sword, not an axe...a dagger)...M. E. H! Can someone please tell me why do we NEED another teenage-girlie sidekick? And would she not be better suited to YXM?

Becuase she'll fit the needs to the Uncanny team and b/c of her teleportation can solve that problem with her on the team.

[Imraith Nimphais]

What "needs"?...and if i remember correctly, she did not have all that much control over her teleports in MC.

[Pach!]

So...She's cute as a button (apparently)...does mass transit teleports...carries a soul-dagger...(not a sword, not an axe...a dagger)...M. E. H! Can someone please tell me why do we NEED another teenage-girlie sidekick? And would she not be better suited to YXM?

Because they want to use her. We don't "need" any character.

[Brian M.]

What "needs"?...and if i remember correctly, she did not have all that much control over her teleports in MC.

Then it's a good thing she's in the hands of people who can better teach her to control her power.

As for the needs, they need to move around, but they also are staying underground, away from Tony and the Initiative, so flying around in big honking jets really negates the kinda stealth approach.

[jarrod]

to literally everyone else whedon has indeed defined his x-men book. it's the one that most closely follows morrison's run, for one. you're all alone in this opinion.
Yes, he defined it as masturbatory, nostaglic, visionless, overhyped, corny, predictable crap. Whedon's not fit to lick Morrison's boots, nevermind ruin his cast. Thank fuck Ellis is almost here to rescue us.

[Pach!]

Yes, he defined it as masturbatory, nostaglic, visionless, overhyped, corny, predictable crap. Whedon's not fit to lick Morrison's boots, nevermind ruin his cast. Thank fuck Ellis is almost here to rescue us.

I disagree.

[Pixie_Solanas]

So...She's cute as a button (apparently)...does mass transit teleports...carries a soul-dagger...(not a sword, not an axe...a dagger)...M. E. H! Can someone please tell me why do we NEED another teenage-girlie sidekick? And would she not be better suited to YXM?

Oh god in heaven, death to all teenage girl sidekicks. Esp. ones that do ninja shit and carry swords.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Yes, he defined it as masturbatory, nostaglic, visionless, overhyped, corny, predictable crap. Whedon's not fit to lick Morrison's boots, nevermind ruin his cast. Thank fuck Ellis is almost here to rescue us.

Completely and totally agree. Whedon = overrated b.s, not fit to be in the same room as Morrison's classic stuff.

[La Fea]

Oh god in heaven, death to all teenage girl sidekicks. Esp. ones that do ninja shit and carry swords.

LOL! I agree!

Super ninja skills and soul daggers are the things that make me kinda wince at characters like Kitty and Pixie.

Otherwise, I think they are all right.

[dotdotdot]

Yes, he defined it as masturbatory, nostaglic, visionless, overhyped, corny, predictable crap. Whedon's not fit to lick Morrison's boots, nevermind ruin his cast. Thank fuck Ellis is almost here to rescue us.

it makes no sense to blame whedon for the hype. that was everyone else. corny and predictable i can give you. directionless? hardly.

[jarrod]

it makes no sense to blame whedon for the hype. that was everyone else.
True, but it's still an adjective that desribes what Whedon delivered. How at fault Whedon is for it is debatable, but the work is still terribly overrated and overhyped.


corny and predictable i can give you. directionless? hardly.
Agreed. It had a clear direction... and that direction sucked.

New direction plz!

[DDM]

Plus some of Claremont's greatest stories were the done in one's like this one:
http://mrlcomics.com/uncanny_xmen_covers/uncanny_xmen_cover_183.jpg

Uncanny X-Men #183 built on the tension of Kitty's love now lovelorn for Peter (started since Uncanny X-Men #129). Kitty sacrificed herself to be one of the Morlocks for Peter (Uncanny X-Men #179). Therefore, yes, this story has been building for quite some time...




and this one:
http://mrlcomics.com/uncanny_xmen_covers/uncanny_xmen_cover_186.jpg

Again, this story has been building since Ororo's inception into the X-Men with Giant Size X-Men #1 & over several other issues such as Uncanny X-Men #121 explains Storm sees things as energy to manipulate into the elements. Storm possesses a spiritual link with the Earth that was broken resulting in her drastic change (Uncanny X-Men #161-173). Then Storm lost her powers resulting in the LifeDeath story from Uncanny X-Men #185-188.

None of these great stories exist in a vacuum. And that's what is missing today because the writers come in & change to changes sake. It's all cut-off from everything else, even the X-Men universe.

[darknessatnoon]

None of these great stories exist in a vacuum. And that's what is missing today because the writers come in & change to changes sake. It's all cut-off from everything else, even the X-Men universe.

That's what happens when you do work-for-hire! If CC is such a genius, he should have thought of that.

[Brian M.]

Uncanny X-Men #183 built on the tension of Kitty's love now lovelorn for Peter (started since Uncanny X-Men #129). Kitty sacrificed herself to be one of the Morlocks for Peter (Uncanny X-Men #179). Therefore, yes, this story has been building for quite some time...






Again, this story has been building since Ororo's inception into the X-Men with Giant Size X-Men #1 & over several other issues such as Uncanny X-Men #121 explains Storm sees things as energy to manipulate into the elements. Storm possesses a spiritual link with the Earth that was broken resulting in her drastic change (Uncanny X-Men #161-173). Then Storm lost her powers resulting in the LifeDeath story from Uncanny X-Men #185-188.

None of these great stories exist in a vacuum. And that's what is missing today because the writers come in & change to changes sake. It's all cut-off from everything else, even the X-Men universe.

Actually you're incorrect. These stories had been building since Uncanny X-Men #1 when Professor Xavier started the X-Men.

[CaptainCanada]

No story exists in a vacuum, but you can tell great stories from day one, no problem; it's just different kinds of stories; a long run from a creator with clear vision, building character arcs and subplots that pay off, etc., are great. But you can also come in and produce six issues that utterly define the character; Miller, for a lot of people, did it in, what four issues of Batman: Year One? Moreover, long building stories require the writer to keep you interested all along the way, and, crucially, give you faith that whatever it is they're building to will be worth it; Brubaker's run on Captain America is in its third year now, and it's mostly been one big story in different forms that whole way.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Ergh, those Lifedeath stories from the mid-80s with Forge and Storm were Hallmark-card DRECK.

But some of Claremont's yarns from that era are absolute classics. CLASSICS! That's the pull that got me into comics as a wee laddie.

My fave is the "Young Dragons in Love" issue.

[Dagger]

Uncanny X-Men #183 built on the tension of Kitty's love now lovelorn for Peter (started since Uncanny X-Men #129). Kitty sacrificed herself to be one of the Morlocks for Peter (Uncanny X-Men #179). Therefore, yes, this story has been building for quite some time...






Again, this story has been building since Ororo's inception into the X-Men with Giant Size X-Men #1 & over several other issues such as Uncanny X-Men #121 explains Storm sees things as energy to manipulate into the elements. Storm possesses a spiritual link with the Earth that was broken resulting in her drastic change (Uncanny X-Men #161-173). Then Storm lost her powers resulting in the LifeDeath story from Uncanny X-Men #185-188.

None of these great stories exist in a vacuum. And that's what is missing today because the writers come in & change to changes sake. It's all cut-off from everything else, even the X-Men universe.
Using previous/ongoing continuity does not exclude these stories from being done in one's. It just further enhanced the emotional impact on the fans of the characters who have been following them since the issues you stated.

[Dagger]

So...She's cute as a button (apparently)...does mass transit teleports...carries a soul-dagger...(not a sword, not an axe...a dagger)...M. E. H! Can someone please tell me why do we NEED another teenage-girlie sidekick? And would she not be better suited to YXM?
A lot of writers like to use characters with some wide-eyed appeal, and who better to fill that slot than Pixie?

[Imraith Nimphais]

If she is still all "wide-eyed" after her recent experiences in NXM...well...it does reveal a lot about her character (to say the least)...I'm just not sure that sort of character will ever grab my attention...but...I am resigned to take the un-palatable with the savoury.

[Monty_Cristo]

A lot of writers like to use characters with some wide-eyed appeal, and who better to fill that slot than Pixie?

Shortpack? . ....................

[La Fea]

A lot of writers like to use characters with some wide-eyed appeal, and who better to fill that slot than Pixie?

The original Princess of Pink, Molly Justine Hayes!

[Brian M.]

The original Princess of Pink, Molly Justine Hayes!

Or Risque?

[DDM]

Using previous/ongoing continuity does not exclude these stories from being done in one's. It just further enhanced the emotional impact on the fans of the characters who have been following them since the issues you stated.


However, these stories cannot simply come out of the blue; they have foreshadowing from other unrelated stories. The Adversary storyline comes from Uncanny X-Men #185-188. Weapon Alpha came from Wolverine's past, Giant Size X-Men #1; likewise, Alpha Flight's appearance in Uncanny X-Men #120-121. You can't write a serial based story in a vacuum.

[La Fea]

Or Risque?

If you say so.

[d newton]

Ergh, those Lifedeath stories from the mid-80s were Hallmark-card DRECK.
Lifedeath was dreck? :(

[Dagger]

However, these stories cannot simply come out of the blue; they have foreshadowing from other unrelated stories. The Adversary storyline comes from Uncanny X-Men #185-188. Weapon Alpha came from Wolverine's past, Giant Size X-Men #1; likewise, Alpha Flight's appearance in Uncanny X-Men #120-121. You can't write a serial based story in a vacuum.
And...? This still doesn't negate the fact that these stories are a one issue done in one. The fact that other stories flow through them do not mean that they are any less of a good story. In fact, the issue of Ult. X-Men that Brian used also used previous continuity like the X-Men being affiliated with SHIELD, and the scene of Logan walking out of the cave after he killed the boy was even brought up again during the continuation of the arc.

[dotdotdot]

However, these stories cannot simply come out of the blue; they have foreshadowing from other unrelated stories. The Adversary storyline comes from Uncanny X-Men #185-188. Weapon Alpha came from Wolverine's past, Giant Size X-Men #1; likewise, Alpha Flight's appearance in Uncanny X-Men #120-121. You can't write a serial based story in a vacuum.

you can say this about any issue of anything ever though, foreshadowing from other unrelated stories.
so you aren't making any sort of point with this.

[DDM]

And...? This still doesn't negate the fact that these stories are a one issue done in one. The fact that other stories flow through them do not mean that they are any less of a good story. In fact, the issue of Ult. X-Men that Brian used also used previous continuity like the X-Men being affiliated with SHIELD, and the scene of Logan walking out of the cave after he killed the boy was even brought up again during the continuation of the arc.

Serial storytelling demands subplots & foreshadowing; it is the nature of the beast. A well written story will not make any sense without any internal comic book logic. And those two examples you gave is dependent on serial storytelling. You undercut your own argument. In fact, any comic book example you give will undercut your argument since serial storytelling demands it.

[dotdotdot]

Serial storytelling demands subplots & foreshadowing; it is the nature of the beast. A well written story will not make any sense without any internal comic book logic. And those two examples you gave is dependent on serial storytelling. You undercut your own argument. In fact, any comic book example you give will undercut your argument since serial storytelling demands it.

you still aren't making a lick of sense or approaching a point.

[SYBERNYMPH]

So Pixie Is The New Kitty Pride ? I Love It

[SYBERNYMPH]

Id Like To See Outlaw Join One Of The X-teams Along With Lifeguard And Threnody

[Chaos_Alfa]

So Pixie Is The New Kitty Pride ? I Love It

Pixie rocks :D
and I don't like Land's art, Pixie isn't suppose to look like someone in her 20's :mad:

[Kid Icarus]

Pixie rocks :D
and I don't like Land's art, Pixie isn't suppose to look like someone in her 20's :mad:

like the scarlet witch?

[We R. Venom]

I hope Pixie really isn't like Kitty, I hope she is much better. Ugh.

[Chaos_Alfa]

I hope Pixie really isn't like Kitty, I hope she is much better. Ugh.

I agree

They shoudn't put Pixie in the same roll as Jubilee and Kitty, because that has already been done before. They shoud try somthing different with her.

[jarrod]

They shoudn't put Pixie in the same roll as Jubilee and Kitty, because that has already been done before. They shoud try somthing different with her.
It's the same general role, but the character's different and that alone changes things. Just as Kitty and Jubes were different, Megan's not going to be the same old story exactly either... plus she's got Yana after her. :D

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Kitty 3.0

Sure, it won't be the *exact* same thing, but don't kid yourself, bro.

[Brian M.]

I hope Pixie really isn't like Kitty, I hope she is much better. Ugh.

Well Pixie already has one up on Kitty...she's alive.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well Pixie already has one up on Kitty...she's alive.

Never gets old, does it? :D

[Brian M.]

Never gets old, does it? :D


Emma Frost Whore comment : Check
Remind Kitty fans she is dead : Check
Make joke about School Bus to NXM fans : Pending

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Emma Frost Whore comment : Check

You know, I considered making weekly "OMFG, Emma's been more faithful to Cyke so far than Jean ever was, ROTFLMAO" comments, but then I'd realized I'd have to fight both you and Slung off. :D

[Brian M.]

You know, I considered making weekly "OMFG, Emma's been more faithful to Cyke so far than Jean ever was, ROTFLMAO" comments, but then I'd realized I'd have to fight both you and Slung off. :D

Please, when was the last time you saw participate in that type debate? I stopped argueing Jean/Scott/Emma long ago. Mostly b/c I know I'm right and the rest of you people are wrong. You can make the comments, I might word it differently b/c in it's current form it's not that effective and doesn't have that "dagger in the side" effect like it should.

[Butters]

Well Pixie already has one up on Kitty...she's alive.

We don't know exactly what happened to Kitty. Maybe she packed her things and decided to go somewhere else...

[Brian M.]

We don't know exactly what happened to Kitty. Maybe she packed her things and decided to go somewhere else...

She never left the gaint space bullet.

[rZi]

Emma Frost Whore comment : Check
Remind Kitty fans she is dead : Check
Make joke about School Bus to NXM fans : Pending

I knew your posts had some kind of formula to them

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Please, when was the last time you saw participate in that type debate? I stopped argueing Jean/Scott/Emma long ago. Mostly b/c I know I'm right and the rest of you people are wrong.

Goddamn you rock, lol.


You can make the comments, I might word it differently b/c in it's current form it's not that effective and doesn't have that "dagger in the side" effect like it should.

The other form would be "Jean's a Shameless TEASE" comments. Polite version at that. :eek:

[Brian M.]

I knew your posts had some kind of formula to them

It's really all I offer this board.

[Butters]

She never left the gaint space bullet.

I was trying to set up a bus joke, but nevermind then.

Getting stuck in a giant space bullet is a pretty lame death by the way.

[Brian M.]

Goddamn you rock, lol.




The other form would be "Jean's a Shameless TEASE" comments. Polite version at that. :eek:

Eh I don't know if I'd go there either...doesn't have that dagger effect either. You want something they can't come back from. That one has loopholes. It's gotta be short and sweet. Something like...

New X-Men Fan: I wonder how the Young X-Men are gonna travel around to missions since the X-Men aren't using any of their old jets?
Me: Probably a school bus.

Short, sweet, to the point. You're not doing knock knock jokes, you're going in for the kill right away.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

We don't know exactly what happened to Kitty. Maybe she packed her things and decided to go somewhere else...

Sure, the Great Beyond.

Bullet explodes somewhere that isn't Earth. Kitty's inside. Convo should go something like this.


"Well, there was no body, so we can't be sure she's dead, right?"

"Of COURSE there's no body. The freakin bigass bullet EXPLODED! With her INSIDE of it. Ain't nothing left."

"Well, maybe she phased out and is just hanging out in space. Or something."

"Hanging out in space?"

"Sure."

"You *DO* know she can only keep her breath for so long, right?"

"Bah, we'll retcon how her powers work or something."

"..."

[Brian M.]

I was trying to set up a bus joke, but nevermind then.

Getting stuck in a giant space bullet is a pretty lame death by the way.

Ah, I see, my bad. I got beer and hot wings farts and I'm not entirely working at 100%.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Short, sweet, to the point. You're not doing knock knock jokes, you're going in for the kill right away.

I was merely stating what the *motif* of said comments would be. ;)

I wouldn't advocate the use of a long-winded form. That being said, I *do* aknowledge it would be hard to go for a real short form. Thus why I didn't go for it.

[jarrod]

Kitty 3.0

Sure, it won't be the *exact* same thing, but don't kid yourself, bro.
No that was Hisako... Meg would be 4.0. :P

[Anna]

Bullet races past Rachel, who senses Kitty and rescues her. Kitty will then return to Earth when Rachel and co land at the empty X-Mansion.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

No that was Hisako... Meg would be 4.0. :P

Sorry, my bad.

Forget Hisako for a while since she hasn't really done anything that even remotely qualifies as funny. Oh well.

Great, so now three bona fide Pryde-wannabes.

I say we off Jubes for the sake of... huh... cosmical balance. Or something.

[Deus ex Chris]

Well, the good news is that Hisako and Pixie are both more interesting and less annoying than Jubilee and young Kitty Pryde.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Well, the good news is that Hisako and Pixie are both more interesting and less annoying than Jubilee and young Kitty Pryde.

I'll give you that.

Enthusiastically for the later.

By default for the former.

[jarrod]

Cut Jubes some slack... I think New Warriors is probably a fate worse than death. lolz.


Hisako's basically the perfect gestalt between Kitty and Jubes though; stubborn, smart, super-duper-capable, filled with bravado and totally annoying. She's the most flatly derivative thing in Astonishing to this point, which is *really* saying something.

Rag on Meg if you want, but at least she's not Logan's sidekick... yet. :/

[La Fea]

Cut Jubes some slack... I think New Warriors is probably a fate worse than death. lolz.


Hisako's basically the perfect gestalt between Kitty and Jubes though; stubborn, smart, super-duper-capable, filled with bravado and totally annoying. She's the most flatly derivative thing in Astonishing to this point, which is *really* saying something.

Rag on Meg if you want, but at least she's not Logan's sidekick... yet. :/

Y'know, I remember really liking Hisako but lately I kinda forgot exactly why I liked her. :confused:

Quick! Someone mention a good moment!

By the by, is this Dodson:

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/2000/1457/165920-emma-frost_400.jpg

And is it new?

[We R. Venom]

http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=9212

No. Old stuff. Marvel Knights Spider-man #6. Can't wait for the new though.

[Deus ex Chris]

Hisako's basically the perfect gestalt between Kitty and Jubes though; stubborn, smart, super-duper-capable, filled with bravado and totally annoying. She's the most flatly derivative thing in Astonishing to this point, which is *really* saying something.
Hisako is no more derivative than Kitty or Storm or Wolverine or anyone else really. In fact, aside from playing that "Kitty Pryde" role, she isn't really like Kitty or Jubilee. Sure you can take characteristics from both, resulting in something similar to Hisako. However, you can do that with just about any three characters or any three people, in fact.

[DeniseXfrost]

Y'know, I remember really liking Hisako but lately I kinda forgot exactly why I liked her. :confused:

Quick! Someone mention a good moment!

By the by, is this Dodson:

http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/2000/1457/165920-emma-frost_400.jpg

And is it new?

Shit Em looks like a witch!

[Jota]

Cut Jubes some slack... I think New Warriors is probably a fate worse than death. lolz.


Hisako's basically the perfect gestalt between Kitty and Jubes though; stubborn, smart, super-duper-capable, filled with bravado and totally annoying. She's the most flatly derivative thing in Astonishing to this point, which is *really* saying something.

Rag on Meg if you want, but at least she's not Logan's sidekick... yet. :/I agree. What an anoying, unoriginal vacuum of personality she is. Whedon is so freaking obsessed with Kitty that, unsatisfied with just writing her, he had to create a copy so he could do it twice.

Meg, at least has a personality and can stand on her own, instead of latching on Wolverine to be validated as an X-Man

[Kid Icarus]

I agree. What an anoying, unoriginal vacuum of personality she is. Whedon is so freaking obsessed with Kitty that, unsatisfied with just writing her, he had to create a copy so he could do it twice.

Ugh, I am just going to continue to believe that this is pure sarcasm.
I am trying really hard to think of many characteristics that the two share
and none come to mind other than the obvious teen sidekick role they each share.

[La Fea]

Shit Em looks like a witch!

I personally like it because she looks sassy, but the way its inked makes her hair look like a wig.

[DeniseXfrost]

Yeah the hair's terrible and she looks like Jenna jameson.

[Jota]

Ugh, I am just going to continue to believe that this is pure sarcasm.
I am trying really hard to think of many characteristics that the two share
and none come to mind other than the obvious teen sidekick role they each share.Precocious, wise-beyond-her-years teen girl that manages to get in the team despite her young age? The only way of missing the similarities is not wanting to see them.

[Jota]

Double post.

[Jota]

Triple post.

[frog]

Precocious, wise-beyond-her-years teen girl that manages to get in the team despite her young age? The only way of missing the similarities is not wanting to see them.

Hisako got on the team purely by being in the right (or more accurately, wrong) place at the time and getting beamed up with the adults. She may be ambitious and perhaps a little more focused than the other kids but that a Kitty-clone does not make.

[Deus ex Chris]

Precocious, wise-beyond-her-years teen girl that manages to get in the team despite her young age? The only way of missing the similarities is not wanting to see them.
I don't think Hisako is especially precocious or wise beyond her years. In fact, she seems to be a very typical teenager in that regard. Of course, there are similarities between them, but that hardly makes Hisako a copy.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I don't think Hisako is especially precocious or wise beyond her years.

Word, lol.

What did she do again except being at the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time and be a decent tank?

In fact, she seems to be a very typical teenager in that regard. Of course, there are similarities between them, but that hardly makes Hisako a copy.

Meh, wouldn't my breath regarding her *not* going a very similar route down the line, eh.

[We R. Venom]

Yeah the hair's terrible and she looks like Jenna jameson.

Uhh, yuck.

[timbox]

I like Hisako, she rules. During MC she didn't have very much screen time, but the time she had was sweet. When Surge was organizing her team for the suicide mission against the Purifiers, Armor just showed up and was like, "Purifiers? Let's do this!"

Her role in the Predator X fight was nicely done as well.

As for her being a Kitty clone... I don't see it. Maybe I'm biased, who knows, I enjoy her so that's what matters.

[Diablito]

Hmmm, not excited for Land's art at all. Oterwise, the future of the X-Books looks great.

[Dagger]

Well, the good news is that Hisako and Pixie are both more interesting and less annoying than Jubilee and young Kitty Pryde.
Kitty was awesome when she first came out! And Jubes totally rocked in Gen. X!:mad:

[Omega Alpha]

Precocious, wise-beyond-her-years teen girl that manages to get in the team despite her young age? The only way of missing the similarities is not wanting to see them.

Hisako is only with the adults by accident, and was made an X-man because there wasn't much choice, really. Besides, she's far from being wise beyond her years.

[AZPolaris]

I read the entire AXM run, and most of New X-Men, and had no clue her name was Hisako till I read these posts. That should tell you how much of an impact she has had as a character. I am ok with Pixie, wouldn't mind getting to know her. However, it depends on who is writing her. I would be more interested in seeing characters like Anole, Surge, and Mercury grow and develop more instead of flooding the books with all the lesser known students. And I do not like how Land draws younger characters. Not really excited about his work on UXM in general, but cannot wait for Dodson. Now if we can get Terry to draw Lorna's story I will be a happy man. :D

[La Fea]

Kitty was awesome when she first came out! And Jubes totally rocked in Gen. X!:mad:

Jubilee did indeed rock when she wasn't annoying!

Armor leaves less of an impression, but she hasn't given me that twitching feeling that Jubilee and Kitty Pryde gave me at her age.

[Optic Power]

Hisako is only with the adults by accident, and was made an X-man because there wasn't much choice, really. Besides, she's far from being wise beyond her years.

Didn't Wolverine say the reason she was on the team is because she deserved to be?

[jarrod]

Kitty wasn't exactly "wise beyond her years" either early on... and she was even demoted to the "X-babies" at first chance. Hisako's so flaty derivative it's borderline insulting. Megan's a thousand times more interesting...

[Kid Icarus]

I like Hisako, she rules. During MC she didn't have very much screen time, but the time she had was sweet. When Surge was organizing her team for the suicide mission against the Purifiers, Armor just showed up and was like, "Purifiers? Let's do this!"

Her role in the Predator X fight was nicely done as well.

As for her being a Kitty clone... I don't see it. Maybe I'm biased, who knows, I enjoy her so that's what matters.

The thing about Armor in MC that made me mad
was all of the times that she was indeed supposed to be
on panel but somehow was missing
tsk tsk

[Brett P]

The thing about Armor in MC that made me mad
was all of the times that she was indeed supposed to be
on panel but somehow was missing
tsk tsk

Yeah, that was highly dissapointing!

[Omega Alpha]

Didn't Wolverine say the reason she was on the team is because she deserved to be?

What would he say? "You suck, but since you're here anyway..." ? No, he put her on the team (and no one objected) because, since she was there anyway, they had to treat her like one of them, to make her feel more confident and didn't get eaten alive by the nice people of the Breakworld, they couldn't have her just as an X-baby.

[DeniseXfrost]

Armor has a potential to be a great character. Her annoyingness was actually cute unlike Kitty.

[Jota]

What would he say? "You suck, but since you're here anyway..." ? No, he put her on the team (and no one objected) because, since she was there anyway, they had to treat her like one of them, to make her feel more confident and didn't get eaten alive by the nice people of the Breakworld, they couldn't have her just as an X-baby.Dude, that's just collossaly stupid! So, instead of puting her in the back, keeping her as safe as possible, they lied to her and rushed her into being an X-Man and sent her into missions when she wasn't ready? Where they trying to get her killed?
Yes, it's true she didn't do anything that showed she was more ready to be an X-Man then any other student (and less then some of them), but she got in the team because she's Whedon creation and a way to make his mark on the book, not because of some over complicated atempt to make her die with a lot of confidence.

[DeniseXfrost]

Dude, that's just collossaly stupid! So, instead of puting her in the back, keeping her as safe as possible, they lied to her and rushed her into being an X-Man and sent her into missions when she wasn't ready? Where they trying to get her killed?

She wasn't sent into missions. She was accidentally teleported along the xmen to the breakworld.

[frog]

Dude, that's just collossaly stupid! So, instead of puting her in the back, keeping her as safe as possible, they lied to her and rushed her into being an X-Man and sent her into missions when she wasn't ready? Where they trying to get her killed?
Yes, it's true she didn't do anything that showed she was more ready to be an X-Man then any other student (and less then some of them), but she got in the team because she's Whedon creation and a way to make his mark on the book, not because of some over complicated atempt to make her die with a lot of confidence.

She was on the team, as I pointed out earlier, because she happened to be in the room when Agent Brand had everyone ported to the ship. The X-Men and Hisako had no choice in the matter. However, Hisako rose to the occasion, had reactions I would expect from a girl in her situation and performed well under the pressures when given a little tough love from Wolverine.

So what if she's a Whedon creation? She works well within the story and with the team and I like her.

[La Fea]

Dude, that's just collossaly stupid! So, instead of puting her in the back, keeping her as safe as possible, they lied to her and rushed her into being an X-Man and sent her into missions when she wasn't ready? Where they trying to get her killed?
Yes, it's true she didn't do anything that showed she was more ready to be an X-Man then any other student (and less then some of them), but she got in the team because she's Whedon creation and a way to make his mark on the book, not because of some over complicated atempt to make her die with a lot of confidence.

If they left her alone in the back of the ship not only would the team be lacking the numbers they were already in debt of, she would be left vulnerable without any protection and could be killed or used as bait.

NO!

Killed and used as bait.

[frog]

If they left her alone in the back of the ship not only would the team be lacking the numbers they were already in debt of, she would be left vulnerable without any protection and could be killed or used as bait.

NO!

Killed and used as bait.

If they had left her on the ship she would have been blown up with it!

[La Fea]

If they had left her on the ship she would have been blown up with it!

LOL!

That could be a good reason, too!

[kate-pryde]

Hisako got on the team purely by being in the right (or more accurately, wrong) place at the time and getting beamed up with the adults. She may be ambitious and perhaps a little more focused than the other kids but that a Kitty-clone does not make.

Hisako seems like any of the generic and annoying Slayers-In-Training from Buffy Season 7. She's not exactly a Kitty clone, but there is a certain derivative quality to her, and she doesn't bring anything new to the table.

[frog]

Hisako seems like any of the generic and annoying Slayers-In-Training from Buffy Season 7. She's not exactly a Kitty clone, but there is a certain derivative quality to her, and she doesn't bring anything new to the table.

I've never watched Buffy so that doesn't bother me.

I like Hisako because she has a caring attitude towards her fellow students (I especially like her with Blindfold), is not a pushover but not infalliable either, and she isn't a whiner. I find her armor interesting in that it has something to do with her ancestors and would like to learn more about her.

[Brian M.]

Hisako seems like any of the generic and annoying Slayers-In-Training from Buffy Season 7. She's not exactly a Kitty clone, but there is a certain derivative quality to her, and she doesn't bring anything new to the table.

Breathes a certain...LIFE into every situation she's in.

More than we can say w/ Kitty atm.

[pryde15]

Breathes a certain...LIFE into every situation she's in.

More than we can say w/ Kitty atm.

The Kitty is dead comments are going to go on for a while aren't they?

I do like Hisako I think she is pretty interesting. Yes she is filling a familiar role in X-Men comics, but it doesn't both me much. I think she has very original powers, as well.

[Brian M.]

The Kitty is dead comments are going to go on for a while aren't they?

I do like Hisako I think she is pretty interesting. Yes she is filling a familiar role in X-Men comics, but it doesn't both me much. I think she has very original powers, as well.

I'm pretty sure they are.

[pryde15]

I'm pretty sure they are.

Lovely... can't wait for more :(

[La Fea]

I've never watched Buffy so that doesn't bother me.

I like Hisako because she has a caring attitude towards her fellow students (I especially like her with Blindfold), is not a pushover but not infalliable either, and she isn't a whiner. I find her armor interesting in that it has something to do with her ancestors and would like to learn more about her.

The ancestor thing was certainly bizarre. I don't know if I want to learn more about it or see it get dropped completely.

I really can't identify what I like about Hisako, but you bring up some good ones. I know she caught me off guard when Ord first attacked the mansion and she (almost) kicked his ass. She hasn't had a 'wow' character moment yet, but her scenes with Wing and Blindfold give me enough reason to want to see her around.

Lovely... can't wait for more :(

Fight back, pryde! You can always google a good "yo momma" joke to punch him in the gut!

[pryde15]

Fight back, pryde! You can always google a good "yo momma" joke to punch him in the gut!

:eek:

I hate you momma jokes!