View Full Version : Do you want the "Big 3" back together?
Chino
03-15-2008, 01:07 PM
Iron Man, Cap and Thor.
Do you want them to eventually go back to the way things were, all on the Avengers?
Personally I like it the way it is right now. Tony leading his Avengers with Cap and Thor doing their own things. I do want the SHRA to go away kinda, but Cap and Thor shouldn't really just forgive and forget. They don't exactly have to be enemies, but there should always be a tension and mistrust there. Also, this makes room for different characters to be on the Avengers which I think is cool.
What do you guys want or think should happen with the big 3/Avengers in the future?
I don't think things should go back to the way they were for a very very very long time.
But I can see them working together out of necessity. Though Steve being dead kind of puts a cramp on things.
bjtrdff
03-15-2008, 01:33 PM
I think Thor will be used in other books soon (i.e. during and post secret invasion), but I don't think we'll see a full on reunion for awhile.
It would be cool to see new Cap, IM and 'new' Thor together at some point over the course of the story and giggle with each other.
New Cap Fan
03-15-2008, 01:40 PM
Iron Man, Cap and Thor.
Do you want them to eventually go back to the way things were, all on the Avengers?
Personally I like it the way it is right now. Tony leading his Avengers with Cap and Thor doing their own things. I do want the SHRA to go away kinda, but Cap and Thor shouldn't really just forgive and forget. They don't exactly have to be enemies, but there should always be a tension and mistrust there. Also, this makes room for different characters to be on the Avengers which I think is cool.
What do you guys want or think should happen with the big 3/Avengers in the future?
I'm really enjoying both New and Mighty Avengers right now but can't help but wonder what the story would be like with Bucky as Cap dealing with the New Avengers. But I do like the chance of new heroes coming on board.
Chino
03-15-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't think things should go back to the way they were for a very very very long time.
But I can see them working together out of necessity. Though Steve being dead kind of puts a cramp on things.
True, but Bucky isn't exactly Tony's number one fan either. I guess it depends on what Bucky does.Which would probably be what he thinks Steve would want...:confused: What would Steve want?
Thor is just a bad-ass, he doesn't need Tony or the SHRA or any of that.So he probably wouldn't be joining the Avengers again anytime soon.
Netley
03-15-2008, 02:27 PM
I'm really enjoying both New and Mighty Avengers right now but can't help but wonder what the story would be like with Bucky as Cap dealing with the New Avengers. But I do like the chance of new heroes coming on board.
I was thinking that since Bucky is kind of the Iron Man backed Cap, Hawkeye will ditch the Ronin duds and be the New Avengers' Cap at some point. We already know thanks to Strange's spell, as does the team, that Cap is who Clint feels he truly is (or whatever) deep down. A Cap on each Avengers team with different ideologies and different ties to Steve Rogers (both very genuine) sounds pretty interesting to me!
Frodo-X
03-15-2008, 02:56 PM
I was thinking that since Bucky is kind of the Iron Man backed Cap, Hawkeye will ditch the Ronin duds and be the New Avengers' Cap at some point. We already know thanks to Strange's spell, as does the team, that Cap is who Clint feels he truly is (or whatever) deep down. A Cap on each Avengers team with different ideologies and different ties to Steve Rogers (both very genuine) sounds pretty interesting to me!
Cap is who he wants to be, but he tried filling those shoes in Fallen Son and didn't like it. I don't see him changing that.
I was thinking that since Bucky is kind of the Iron Man backed Cap, Hawkeye will ditch the Ronin duds and be the New Avengers' Cap at some point. We already know thanks to Strange's spell, as does the team, that Cap is who Clint feels he truly is (or whatever) deep down. A Cap on each Avengers team with different ideologies and different ties to Steve Rogers (both very genuine) sounds pretty interesting to me!
Bucky wouldn't join Might Avengers..
Netley
03-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Cap is who he wants to be, but he tried filling those shoes in Fallen Son and didn't like it. I don't see him changing that.
[Do you mean Hawkeye?] Yeah, that was a very powerful issue, and you're definitely right. I think he may have been against the idea of how Iron Man was going about recreating Cap (not to mention however much he knew at the time of Iron Man's role in inadvertently setting the stage for Cap's assassination), and not against a new Cap in general. I think he was just damn sure he didn't want to be "Iron Man's new Cap."
He also hadn't experienced the introspection thrown upon him by Strange's "inner person" spell which, although he quickly dismissed Steve-within-him then too, must have got some wheels turning in his head!
It's also been roughly established that he and Bucky are pretty much the only two who can hand using the Shield.
To me the Aevengers were always, Thor/Cap/IM and the other members were like the entourage to the core 3.
I would like to see a reunion of some kind...but not for a veeeeeeeery long time.
Toboe
03-15-2008, 03:06 PM
I like the current situation, with each of them going their own way. It needs to keep up like that for a long while.
They were awesome together in the classic Avengers, but right now the situation in the MU doesn't allow that.
Netley
03-15-2008, 03:09 PM
Bucky wouldn't join Might Avengers..
You don't think so? He pretty much already kissed and made up with Stark (who's idea it was for him to wear the uniform in the first place), Black Widow's one of his closest buddies (and she's on the team), and he has almost no connection to the rebel Avengers. So I could see it that when the $#!+ hits the fan (even more so) with the whole Red Skull scheme, Bucky/Cap calls on Stark and the Mighty Avengers to be at his side, ultimately joining the team.
Of course I could be wrong, it just seems that that could be a logical path this great narrative is taking!
Bryson the Red
03-15-2008, 03:25 PM
It would be too hard to work out anytime soon. Down the line at some point I wouldn't mind. I kind of miss it.
You don't think so? He pretty much already kissed and made up with Stark (who's idea it was for him to wear the uniform in the first place), Black Widow's one of his closest buddies (and she's on the team), and he has almost no connection to the rebel Avengers. So I could see it that when the $#!+ hits the fan (even more so) with the whole Red Skull scheme, Bucky/Cap calls on Stark and the Mighty Avengers to be at his side, ultimately joining the team.
Of course I could be wrong, it just seems that that could be a logical path this great narrative is taking!
Even if Bucky wanted to join, he's unregistered. And as far as we know, he has no plans on doing so. He might be able to covertly work with the team, but he really couldn't publically join them.
New Cap Fan
03-15-2008, 03:34 PM
I was thinking that since Bucky is kind of the Iron Man backed Cap, Hawkeye will ditch the Ronin duds and be the New Avengers' Cap at some point. We already know thanks to Strange's spell, as does the team, that Cap is who Clint feels he truly is (or whatever) deep down. A Cap on each Avengers team with different ideologies and different ties to Steve Rogers (both very genuine) sounds pretty interesting to me!
That would be cool, as long as Clint's not a skrull!;)
Netley
03-15-2008, 03:35 PM
Even if Bucky wanted to join, he's unregistered. And as far as we know, he has no plans on doing so. He might be able to covertly work with the team, but he really couldn't publically join them.
Very true, though Stark has pretty much given him a free pass thus far, and SI is continuously making registration seem somewhat moot. I like your idea of Bucky/Cap being a covert agent for the team, that would make sense to me (obviously their interests are intersecting more and more as the Red Skull digs his claws into the country!).
IronStarks
03-15-2008, 04:03 PM
i was just thinking of this very idea when i was reading the New Avengers recently, i think it should happen eventually (a reunion of the big 3) and i have faith that it will someday. Comics goes through cycles and eventually i think they will all be fighting on the same side.
CaptainCanada
03-15-2008, 04:13 PM
Even if Bucky wanted to join, he's unregistered. And as far as we know, he has no plans on doing so. He might be able to covertly work with the team, but he really couldn't publically join them.
Spider-Woman is apparently unregistered, and she's publicly on the team.
Of course, as long as you agree to be on the team, you're de facto registered, really.
agrich
03-15-2008, 04:19 PM
It'd be awesome if they got the "Big 3" founding members back together. You know: The Hulk, Ant-Man, and the Wasp.
Magneto Rocks
03-15-2008, 04:55 PM
I would absolutely LOVE to see the Big Three fight side by side again. It all depends really; if Brubaker plans to bring back Cap then save it until then, have everyone divided and have Cap unite them again upon his return, if not, then let Bucky do it as Cap and have it happen in Secret Invasion!
I think when the Avengers are reunited, if Marvel follow through on what they've been doing ogically, then Tony is to them as Cyclops is to the X-Men- the new, harsher leader for more difficult times. He should therefore follow Cyclops in stealing someone else's catchphrase; I want to see Tony leading ALL the Avengers into battle roaring "Avengers Assemble!"
...Rant over. ;)
It'd be awesome if they got the "Big 3" founding members back together. You know: The Hulk, Ant-Man, and the Wasp.
Because Iron Man and Thor were just decorative.
Spider-Woman is apparently unregistered, and she's publicly on the team.
Of course, as long as you agree to be on the team, you're de facto registered, really.
True. Though she was a SHIELD agent already, so her needing to register is kind of a technicality anyways.
jackolover
03-15-2008, 05:38 PM
Iron Man, Cap and Thor.
Do you want them to eventually go back to the way things were, all on the Avengers?
As long as it's done by Warren Ellis, yes, because he kicks ass. Bendis? No. Even JMS would be okay.
jackolover
03-15-2008, 05:45 PM
Even if Bucky wanted to join, he's unregistered. And as far as we know, he has no plans on doing so. He might be able to covertly work with the team, but he really couldn't publically join them.
That would be good with Bucky as a covert. Sort of like AI's Mutant Zero to the Avengers. That whole Skrull contamination thing would have been ideal for Bucky to sniff out for Cap, when Steve was around, but now it's gone, those plot lines. Imagine a Cap Bucky book, where Cap is in the Avengers, and Bucky does the recon. Buck would be the bad boy, and Cap the clean cut American boy. Sort of like Peter Parkers Kaine.
IronKing
03-15-2008, 06:25 PM
The longer it is before those 3 reunite -- the more momentous it will be.
Kinda like Jean Grey coming back to the X-Men.
The longer it is before those 3 reunite -- the more momentous it will be.
Kinda like Jean Grey coming back to the X-Men.
It won't REALLY be momentous until Steve returns though (no offense to Bucky).
GozertheGozarian
03-15-2008, 06:55 PM
Only if it's not Tony in the suit.
Alan2099
03-15-2008, 07:14 PM
I'd be all for it, as soon as we can get Tony acting like himself again and get rid of Cyber-Bucky, the better.
Just a Shadow
03-15-2008, 07:35 PM
It won't REALLY be momentous until Steve returns though (no offense to Bucky).
If Steve hasn't returned, then it is not the "big three". Bucky might be running around in Cap's uniform and he might even have people calling him Captain America, but he is more certainly not one of the "big three" any moreso than Rhodey could be one of them if he was Iron Man. I don't think that it's a position that can be inherited.
SeritoNiN
03-15-2008, 07:46 PM
I like what Marvel has done, in that a story isn't just solved with a happy ending. This is a HUGE problem I have when I read DC stuff. So no, I don't want it to go back to the way it was, been reading the way it was for 30 years, it's nice to see new things happening and actual risk being taken.
Bryson the Red
03-15-2008, 07:49 PM
(no offense to Bucky).
I don't think he minds.
... he knows he can't fill those big red boots.
If Steve hasn't returned, then it is not the "big three". Bucky might be running around in Cap's uniform and he might even have people calling him Captain America, but he is more certainly not one of the "big three" any moreso than Rhodey could be one of them if he was Iron Man. I don't think that it's a position that can be inherited.
Yeah... it's just not the same. Really, Tony and Bucky are already working together anyways and I don't think theres any significance to Thor and Bucky meeting at all.
Without Steve, it might as well be War Machine and Thor Girl in there with Bucky.
TotalWorldDomination
03-15-2008, 08:07 PM
Eh, I never thought of Thor Cap and IM as the big three. I alwase thought it was the Big Two (Cap and IM) and then everyone else (Thor, Hawkeye, Wasp, Yellowjacket, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Beast, ect ect...). And with the MU being so interesting as it is right now I could care less if Marvel ever reuintes them. I prefer my Steve Rodgers dead right now.
Mister Mets
03-15-2008, 09:03 PM
It'll happen soon enough.
No need to rush what will be a big moment.
Jessica Drew
03-15-2008, 09:07 PM
I'd like to see the three re-unite, but not now. Maybe in about five years, though....
CaptainCanada
03-15-2008, 09:09 PM
I don't think theres any significance to Thor and Bucky meeting at all.
There's plenty of significance to Thor meeting his best friend's successor.
SquidSquod
03-15-2008, 09:15 PM
Knowing Thor comes back with Godblast, Iron Man increasing in stature and ability, and Resurrected Cap may return with more tricks - the only threat seem believable for them without decreasing their abilities are only cosmic or super threats.
For the rest of the days, current New Avengers or Carol led team is enough to handle your average Avengers threats.
CaptainCanada
03-15-2008, 09:21 PM
That's actually one of the things I've wondered about the current Thor; it's clear now that he has the Odinforce, which, honestly, should make him far too powerful for the Avengers. He's like the Sentry, except not inept, so there's no reason whatsoever why he shouldn't be able to defeat basically any threat they face on his own. They kept Jurgens' Thor off the Avengers, but unless he gets powered down I don't know that he could rejoin without being constantly written down.
IronStarks
03-15-2008, 09:24 PM
mabey in some sort of epic crossover (not secret invasion) they should all pair up one, then leave it at that for awhile.
twilight
03-15-2008, 09:25 PM
Meh.
I'd be perfectly happy to see them back together at some point but right now I'm enjoying all the individual stories being told about them.
-Twi
prodigy
03-15-2008, 09:53 PM
Hell yes....
That's actually one of the things I've wondered about the current Thor; it's clear now that he has the Odinforce, which, honestly, should make him far too powerful for the Avengers. He's like the Sentry, except not inept, so there's no reason whatsoever why he shouldn't be able to defeat basically any threat they face on his own. They kept Jurgens' Thor off the Avengers, but unless he gets powered down I don't know that he could rejoin without being constantly written down.
Yeah, I honestly don't think Thor should keep the Odin Force.
I'm not just taking about him rejoining the Avengers... I'm talking about him being any kind of functional role in the shared MU. There are only so many challenges a Skyfather can realistically have. And I don't think a character as mainstream and popular as Thor can just sit on the sidelines and do his own thing indefinately.
jackolover
03-16-2008, 12:57 AM
Yeah, I honestly don't think Thor should keep the Odin Force.
I'm not just taking about him rejoining the Avengers... I'm talking about him being any kind of functional role in the shared MU. There are only so many challenges a Skyfather can realistically have. And I don't think a character as mainstream and popular as Thor can just sit on the sidelines and do his own thing indefinately.
There is the World Breaker reappearance. If Thor wanted to really get tested.
You really need earth threatened for the big 3 to stand side by side. Massive storm fronts able to decimate armadas, Tech-based robots needing a tech-based hero, and an infiltration on a decidedly nasty level, requiring a well organised field leader. Hmmmm....... Wonder what kind of threat that could be?
DeadXMan
03-16-2008, 02:25 AM
I wouldn't mind if Thor put Bucky to the test of worthiness like he did with Steve.
Magneto Rocks
03-16-2008, 05:02 AM
That's actually one of the things I've wondered about the current Thor; it's clear now that he has the Odinforce, which, honestly, should make him far too powerful for the Avengers. He's like the Sentry, except not inept, so there's no reason whatsoever why he shouldn't be able to defeat basically any threat they face on his own. They kept Jurgens' Thor off the Avengers, but unless he gets powered down I don't know that he could rejoin without being constantly written down.
There are plenty of threats you can't beat just by hitting them. Had the current Thor been around in the Civil War, for instance, I doubt it would have been an automatic victory for either side since he would never have gone all-out on either side. (Particularly since there would 99% certainly be no Clor.) And if it's a non physical threat, he's vulnerable. Like, say... a threat from a cadre of shape-shifting green-skinned aliens capable of replacing anyone and everyone he cares about?
Netley
03-16-2008, 05:25 AM
I like what Marvel has done, in that a story isn't just solved with a happy ending. This is a HUGE problem I have when I read DC stuff. So no, I don't want it to go back to the way it was, been reading the way it was for 30 years, it's nice to see new things happening and actual risk being taken.
Couldn't agree more. Hitting the reset button/reaffirming the status quo in any way is pretty much a slap in the face to followers of a book's narrative (imo). (And that's a large part if why people are pissed at OMD/BND, of course.)
So if they did the equivalent to the Avengers at this point in the team's long history (and let's face it, it's the biggest team/book in the MU), THAT would be unthinkable!
BUT, as far as getting the big 3 back together I would say it's only a matter of time. It doesn't have to be something that "un-does" events in the narrative, it can be in a shape/form that we, the readers, don't see coming! THAT'S the best part about the monthly comics experience!
Bucky/Cap seems pretty good to me, since, honestly I'm more interested in the book now than I even was when Waid rocked it (and that was my previous fav). Tony Stark is Iron Man is not a Skrull, so he's obviously available as his third. And finally, Thor is BACK! And being written wonderfully by JMS - and aching to integrate back into the reality of this oncoming MU invasion!
So yeah, let's see it! The big 3, good call!
Eh, I never thought of Thor Cap and IM as the big three. I alwase thought it was the Big Two (Cap and IM) and then everyone else (Thor, Hawkeye, Wasp, Yellowjacket, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Beast, ect ect...). And with the MU being so interesting as it is right now I could care less if Marvel ever reuintes them. I prefer my Steve Rodgers dead right now.
And I agree with that. Cap and Iron Man were the bros of the Avengers, by far! Thor was a God who walked among mortals and had their complete respect, but didn't relate to the others in the same human way (and additionally had so many incarnations, that I could see Cap and Iron Man laughing "ah, so this is the new Thor, Ok whatevs."
But if it's 3, which the original question asked, Thor is a pretty good number three. And yeah, it will happen eventually (they just don't need to undo continuity to achieve it!)
Long friggen rant, me!!!:rolleyes:
IronStarks
03-16-2008, 06:30 AM
There is the World Breaker reappearance. If Thor wanted to really get tested.
You really need earth threatened for the big 3 to stand side by side. Massive storm fronts able to decimate armadas, Tech-based robots needing a tech-based hero, and an infiltration on a decidedly nasty level, requiring a well organised field leader. Hmmmm....... Wonder what kind of threat that could be?
I could see it working
And I agree with that. Cap and Iron Man were the bros of the Avengers, by far! Thor was a God who walked among mortals and had their complete respect, but didn't relate to the others in the same human way (and additionally had so many incarnations, that I could see Cap and Iron Man laughing "ah, so this is the new Thor, Ok whatevs."
But if it's 3, which the original question asked, Thor is a pretty good number three. And yeah, it will happen eventually (they just don't need to undo continuity to achieve it!)
Long friggen rant, me!!!:rolleyes:
I'm going to disagree with that.
I think they related to each other just fine. If you look at DC's trinity... you've got a human, an alien, and an amazon princess. That's arguably a slightly bigger stretch than a god, a billionaire industrialist, and a WW2 soldier.
It's not about these people being bro's... I don't think Clark and Bruce in DCU spend their Friday Nights with each other hanging out in bars either. It's about them being the Best of the Best in the Avengers. They're the three best known, most respected people who are basically the heart and soul of the team.
Even in regards to Cap and Tony... I don't think they're best friends. They both have their own supporting casts of friends and allies that they likely interact with more.
SquidSquod
03-16-2008, 08:34 AM
I'm going to disagree with that.
I think they related to each other just fine. If you look at DC's trinity... you've got a human, an alien, and an amazon princess. That's arguably a slightly bigger stretch than a god, a billionaire industrialist, and a WW2 soldier.
It's not about these people being bro's... I don't think Clark and Bruce in DCU spend their Friday Nights with each other hanging out in bars either. It's about them being the Best of the Best in the Avengers. They're the three best known, most respected people who are basically the heart and soul of the team.
Even in regards to Cap and Tony... I don't think they're best friends. They both have their own supporting casts of friends and allies that they likely interact with more.
Steve and Tony should have a closer relationship than Bruce and Clark. Both guys live in NYC, there's no "this is my turf, that's your turf" thing between them. Finally in the past both Marvel guys are more connected in the Avengers than the DC guys in JLA.
Steve and Tony should have a closer relationship than Bruce and Clark. Both guys live in NYC, there's no "this is my turf, that's your turf" thing between them. Finally in the past both Marvel guys are more connected in the Avengers than the DC guys in JLA.
The Avengers are typically more connected than JLA counterparts. The JLA are a bit more spread out.
But Bruce and Clark specifically work together a LOT... obviously they have their own series together which is exclusive about them teaming up every single month. I wouldn't say they're best friends, and they have some pretty significant personal difference (thought the same can be said about Tony and Steve), but I'd actually argue that Batman and Supes have a tighter working relationship. It's not like there's a monthly Captain America/Iron Man book out there.
SquidSquod
03-16-2008, 09:10 AM
The Avengers are typically more connected than JLA counterparts. The JLA are a bit more spread out.
But Bruce and Clark specifically work together a LOT... obviously they have their own series together which is exclusive about them teaming up every single month. I wouldn't say they're best friends, and they have some pretty significant personal difference (thought the same can be said about Tony and Steve), but I'd actually argue that Batman and Supes have a tighter working relationship. It's not like there's a monthly Captain America/Iron Man book out there.
Batman/Superman is DC's scheme to push only those guys among dozens of other DC chars. Besides Cap America/Iron Man doesn't work that well, because Iron Man is more like Batman + mini-Superman combined, with mind and body advantage. But that doesn't say there's no fraternity among the Avengers. Both are mortals, who look upon superbeings more powerful than them.
Batman/Superman is DC's scheme to push only those guys among dozens of other DC chars. Besides Cap America/Iron Man doesn't work that well, because Iron Man is more like Batman + mini-Superman combined, with mind and body advantage. But that doesn't say there's no fraternity among the Avengers. Both are mortals, who look upon superbeings more powerful than them.
I agree... I think there's a strong fraternity among the Big 3. That's why they are called the Big 3. I don't think them being mortals is really an issue though, which is why I think Thor belongs in there. Despite being mortal, honestly I think Cap is treated in a more godlike manner than any of the gods.
I was just disagreeing with your point about Clark and Bruce not being as close as Steve and Tony. As I said, Clark and Bruce work together a lot. Steve and Tony largely only work together in a larger team setting. They don't have the same partnership that Clark and Bruce seem to have developed.I think Cap has that partnership with Falcon more than anyone else.
SquidSquod
03-16-2008, 09:38 AM
Clark and Bruce have developed adventures together because other than that's the scheme DC is making, they complement each other fine. Batman has the mind, Superman has the strength. The same can't be said with the Marvel duos. Cap partnering with the Falcon because other than Marvel has a good philosophy pushing all characters equally, it's just that both Cap and Shellhead have a different philosophy in working. Cap is more active, Iron Man is more laidback/reactive. So it's good to have partners that are more attuned to both heroes.
But in the Avengers there's good human touch among them attested by the Civil War specials and 1-2 episodes of the New Avengers pre-CW. The same can't be said with the DC duos, as they mistrust each other very much especially from the former Sinestro Corps candidate Batman.
The same can't be said with the DC duos, as they mistrust each other very much especially from the former Sinestro Corps candidate Batman.
True... though I'd argue there are some pretty strong mistrust issues within the Avengers as well stemming out of Civil War and Secret Invasion.
SquidSquod
03-16-2008, 10:20 AM
Yeah, CW is a breaking point and it will produce an interesting storyline if Steve ever gets resurrected. But the thing to point out is Tony never feels Steve as a threat, and the same thing can be said vice versa. Bruce constantly sees Clark as a possible timebomb, and Clark sees Bruce as the most dangerous guy in the planet. Yeah, big time mistrust in DC but without some sensationalist editors in DC to make it blow open like CW.
Will.S
03-16-2008, 01:26 PM
But Bruce and Clark specifically work together a LOT... obviously they have their own series together which is exclusive about them teaming up every single month. I wouldn't say they're best friends, and they have some pretty significant personal difference (thought the same can be said about Tony and Steve), but I'd actually argue that Batman and Supes have a tighter working relationship. It's not like there's a monthly Captain America/Iron Man book out there.
I was just disagreeing with your point about Clark and Bruce not being as close as Steve and Tony. As I said, Clark and Bruce work together a lot. Steve and Tony largely only work together in a larger team setting. They don't have the same partnership that Clark and Bruce seem to have developed.I think Cap has that partnership with Falcon more than anyone else.
I thought the Casualties of War special summed up their relationship perfectly. They might not have been "best friends" but they were very close, stuff like the Confession, Cap's letter to Iron Man, and Casualties of War made their friendship all the more painful to watch during CW since they were so at each other.
jackolover
03-16-2008, 10:44 PM
Bucky/Cap seems pretty good to me, since, honestly I'm more interested in the book now than I even was when Waid rocked it (and that was my previous fav).
I never had a favorite Cap writer, except Lee/Kirby, but even they didn't make a Cap like JMS's Bucky. Cap now has real character, instead of him being the boy scout. The boy scout was always a hard act to do, for any writer. This Bucky adds more interest for the simple fact the guy can kill people, and is vulnerable, and, he has the potential to become an Electra. On both sides at the same time. You never trully are sure where Bucky lies, except that he tries hard, is in the field, and could be Nick Furys son.
Mind you, the Mark Millar/ McNiven CW Cap was the most interesting Steve Rogers has ever been.
Babylon23
03-16-2008, 10:59 PM
Iron Man, Cap and Thor.
Do you want them to eventually go back to the way things were, all on the Avengers?
I'd love to see them all back on the Avengers. However, a complete change in the current direction of all of their books, plus the Avengers books, plus the Marvel U in general would be required for it to make any sense at all. I know I'm in the minority, but I can't wait for that shift to occur.
Netley
03-16-2008, 11:23 PM
I thought the Casualties of War special summed up their relationship perfectly. They might not have been "best friends" but they were very close, stuff like the Confession, Cap's letter to Iron Man, and Casualties of War made their friendship all the more painful to watch during CW since they were so at each other.
Yeah the Confession 1-shot especially, that was a powerful epilogue Civil War and Cap's death. And the way in which the two stories are chronologically swapped really added an emotional aspect to what Tony must have been feeling! (So cool how they did that! - was that Millar, Bendis, or Jenkins?)
And oh man, that letter Steve left Tony! Showing he had put his role as Cap and his concern for Bucky ahead of everything else, even in the midst of his Civil War - and Tony reading and just crying. I felt that.
Those two tales really hit the nail on the head as far as their friendship goes! They are friends, but also see a bigger picture of what themselves and each other represent. And the fact that they don't always see eye to eye (especially during Civil War, obviously) is a result of differing perspectives and ideologies - it doesn't negate their friendship.
Alan2099
03-17-2008, 07:10 AM
Keep in mind as well that for large portions of time many Avengershave actually lived in the mansion together. You wouldn't see Superman or Batman bumping into each other when they go to get a sandwhich or share gym equipment, but it's perfectly normal for Thor, Cap, and Ironman.
Mind you, the Mark Millar/ McNiven CW Cap was the most interesting Steve Rogers has ever been.
And just for that, all your opinions regarding Captain America are rendered invalid. ;)
jackolover
03-17-2008, 02:55 PM
And just for that, all your opinions regarding Captain America are rendered invalid. ;)
Well, thanks. It just so happens Cap really hadn't been an interesting character until CW.
Kirk G
03-17-2008, 03:54 PM
I'd love to see them all back on the Avengers. However, a complete change in the current direction of all of their books, plus the Avengers books, plus the Marvel U in general would be required for it to make any sense at all. I know I'm in the minority, but I can't wait for that shift to occur.
A complete shift, eh?
Sounds like a call to Wanda is in order here....:eek:
Alan2099
03-17-2008, 05:32 PM
View Post
I'd love to see them all back on the Avengers. However, a complete change in the current direction of all of their books, plus the Avengers books, plus the Marvel U in general would be required for it to make any sense at all. I know I'm in the minority, but I can't wait for that shift to occur.
I'm right there with ya'.
satchmo the dragon
03-17-2008, 08:17 PM
Spider-man, Wolverine and Luke Cage have overtaken Capt America, Iron Man and Thor as the core three Avengers. Cap's dead, Iron Man's evil, and who knows about Thor he is off in his own world or maybe dead.
SquidSquod
03-17-2008, 09:15 PM
Spider-man, Wolverine and Luke Cage have overtaken Capt America, Iron Man and Thor as the core three Avengers. Cap's dead, Iron Man's evil, and who knows about Thor he is off in his own world or maybe dead.
This is what happens when legitimate uber Marvel villains like Thanos and Kang are so few, so street levelers can exclaim themselves as Avengers.
Kid Kamikaze10
03-17-2008, 09:22 PM
Spider-man, Wolverine and Luke Cage have overtaken Capt America, Iron Man and Thor as the core three Avengers. Cap's dead, Iron Man's evil, and who knows about Thor he is off in his own world or maybe dead.
*throws up in mouth*
No, thank you.
This is what happens when legitimate uber Marvel villains like Thanos and Kang are so few, so street levelers can exclaim themselves as Avengers.
Let's not sell these guys too short.
Spidey has actually twarted Thanos plans in the past. Luke Cage proved that even Dr. Doom shouldn't mess with him. And really, what hasn't Wolverine done?
Cage is only now really being elevated, but Spidey and Wolverine are 2 of the most accomplished heroes on the planet. Granted neither are uber powerful... but the same can be said for people like Cap and Batman. Raw power isn't everything.
Kid Kamikaze10
03-17-2008, 09:59 PM
Let's not sell these guys too short.
Spidey has actually twarted Thanos plans in the past. Luke Cage proved that even Dr. Doom shouldn't mess with him. And really, what hasn't Wolverine done?
Cage is only now really being elevated, but Spidey and Wolverine are 2 of the most accomplished heroes on the planet. Granted neither are uber powerful... but the same can be said for people like Cap and Batman. Raw power isn't everything.
But superior leadership, superior technology/intellect, and the power of a god is a heck of a lot more than the king of the street levelers, an over-glorified X-Man, and well... Luke Cage.
Just saying.
But superior leadership, superior technology/intellect, and the power of a god is a heck of a lot more than king of the street levelers, an over-glorified X-Man, and well... Luke Cage.
Just saying.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'll give you Cage since again, he's an up and comer. But Wolverine and Spidey have accomplished as much as any Avenger on the roster. Frankly there are PLENTY of Avengers have have accomplished LESS than them... even people that who on paper are more powerful.
Wolverine and Spidey are 2 of the most accomplished heroes on the planet. They shouldn't take a back seat to anyone.
Kyle_Ion
03-17-2008, 10:07 PM
Iron Man, Cap and Thor.
Do you want them to eventually go back to the way things were, all on the Avengers?
Personally I like it the way it is right now. Tony leading his Avengers with Cap and Thor doing their own things. I do want the SHRA to go away kinda, but Cap and Thor shouldn't really just forgive and forget. They don't exactly have to be enemies, but there should always be a tension and mistrust there. Also, this makes room for different characters to be on the Avengers which I think is cool.
What do you guys want or think should happen with the big 3/Avengers in the future?
I do not want thor to team back up with Cap or Iron Man. I won't mind if Thor teams up with them or anyone else once in a while as a guest, but I do not want him join a team book ever.
Kid Kamikaze10
03-17-2008, 10:16 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'll give you Cage since again, he's an up and comer. But Wolverine and Spidey have accomplished as much as any Avenger on the roster. Frankly there are PLENTY of Avengers have have accomplished LESS than them... even people that who on paper are more powerful.
Wolverine and Spidey are 2 of the most accomplished heroes on the planet. They shouldn't take a back seat to anyone.
They deserve to be on the roster, sure, but top Avengers? Nope, not a chance.
Then again, there are only three Avengers that I consider "Top Avengers", and those are the ones we are talking about. Okay, maybe Hawkeye and Scarlet too.
Agree to Disagree.
They deserve to be on the roster, sure, but top Avengers? Nope, not a chance.
Then again, there are only three Avengers that I consider "Top Avengers", and those are the ones we are talking about. Okay, maybe Hawkeye and Scarlet too.
Agree to Disagree.
The post I was specifically responding to was the one which questioning them referring to themselves as Avengers.
But looking at the initial comment about them... it specifically states that Spidey, Cage, and Wolverine are the CORE Avengers (as oppossed to saying the top or best or whatever). When you consider that Thor and Bucky aren't Avengers presently, while Steve is dead then I think the comment makes a bit more sense.
Iron Man is a valid point, but you can't really say the rest of the Big 3 are the core at least presently. I guess you can throw in Carol since she's the MA leader (though she's kind of a lame duck leader). But Cage is presently the leader of the NA and arguably a bit part of the focus of the book. Spidey and Wolverine aren't really the focus, though they are probably the 2 biggest names on either team.
SquidSquod
03-17-2008, 11:18 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'll give you Cage since again, he's an up and comer. But Wolverine and Spidey have accomplished as much as any Avenger on the roster. Frankly there are PLENTY of Avengers have have accomplished LESS than them... even people that who on paper are more powerful.
Wolverine and Spidey are 2 of the most accomplished heroes on the planet. They shouldn't take a back seat to anyone.
Quantity doesn't mean Quality. Of course there are more low-level threats than high level threats.
Would you even consider a match like Dr. Doom vs Wolverine? I don't suppose you would because Doom punked Magneto, and Magneto punked Wolverine. But Iron Man is a good match for Dr. Doom although he doesn't have magic because of his creativity. Captain America brings the best of all guys under him and Thor is just Thor.
I'm not saying Spidey, Luke Cage, and Wolverine can be good Avengers. But the core 3 are the dream team Avengers and those are the guys you want to see when fighting Thanos, Kang, or prepped Dr. Doom.
jackolover
03-17-2008, 11:23 PM
Luke Cage proved that even Dr. Doom shouldn't mess with him.
Cage is only now really being elevated,
Bendis did to Cage what Ellis did to the D listers in TBolts. A lot more writers should develop boundary characters like those two writers, because then, us readers have our interest peaked. Submariner got a 3 dimensional rework by Guggenheim and Jenkins as well, and hasn't he been better for it?
Quantity doesn't mean Quality. Of course there are more low-level threats than high level threats.
Would you even consider a match like Dr. Doom vs Wolverine? I don't suppose you would because Doom punked Magneto, and Magneto punked Wolverine. But Iron Man is a good match for Dr. Doom although he doesn't have magic because of his creativity. Captain America brings the best of all guys under him and Thor is just Thor.
I'm not saying Spidey, Luke Cage, and Wolverine can be good Avengers. But the core 3 are the dream team Avengers and those are the guys you want to see when fighting Thanos, Kang, or prepped Dr. Doom.
Cage actually did pretty darn well against Dr. Doom.
As for Spidey and Wolverine... I'd argue they have both quantity and quality under their belt. Again, I'd consider them 2 of the best heroes on the planet. Their accomplishments speak for themself.
As for the Big 3... as I argued in an above post, I'll agree Iron Man is at the core of the Avengers. But I won't apply that term to Cap and THor. They can't be the core of a team when they're not on it. I would argue argue Bendis DID make Cage the core of the Avengers (or at least the NA). A lot of the book does revolve around him. Spidey and Wolverine are more debatable, though their status and credibility gives at least put them in the running.
Bendis did to Cage what Ellis did to the D listers in TBolts. A lot more writers should develop boundary characters like those two writers, because then, us readers have our interest peaked. Submariner got a 3 dimensional rework by Guggenheim and Jenkins as well, and hasn't he been better for it?
Well, that's the nice thing about killing off Thor or Cap or Hawkeye temporarily... as much as it sucks, it does leave certain opportunities for other characters like Cage to shine.
Wolverine was a D lister until someone decided to make him an X-Men. Ya never know.
SquidSquod
03-17-2008, 11:42 PM
Cage actually did pretty darn well against Dr. Doom.
As for Spidey and Wolverine... I'd argue they have both quantity and quality under their belt. Again, I'd consider them 2 of the best heroes on the planet. Their accomplishments speak for themself.
As for the Big 3... as I argued in an above post, I'll agree Iron Man is at the core of the Avengers. But I won't apply that term to Cap and THor. They can't be the core of a team when they're not on it. I would argue argue Bendis DID make Cage the core of the Avengers (or at least the NA). A lot of the book does revolve around him. Spidey and Wolverine are more debatable, though their status and credibility gives at least put them in the running.
You know deep down Cage vs Doom is a giveaway. Doom magic is too dangerous and I don't think Cage has any answer to it. Well let's just say in the past, Doom is not heavily magic reliant.
Just because Cap is dead (he'll be back) and Thor is out of the loop (he'll also be back) it doesn't mean that the big 3 will never join back because deep down Marvel writers still see the best Avengers as Cap, Iron Man, and Thor teamplay. I realize the big 3 will need a more dangerous threat to make their union credible.
You know deep down Cage vs Doom is a giveaway. Doom magic is too dangerous and I don't think Cage has any answer to it. Well let's just say in the past, Doom is not heavily magic reliant.
Just because Cap is dead (he'll be back) and Thor is out of the loop (he'll also be back) it doesn't mean that the big 3 will never join back because deep down Marvel writers still see the best Avengers as Cap, Iron Man, and Thor teamplay. I realize the big 3 will need a more dangerous threat to make their union credible.
I think one can argue Cage vs Doom is a giveaway. Frankly I think Iron Man or Cap vs Doom would be a giveaway too. Of the people we're presently discussing, Thor's the only guy that a well written Doom wouldn't own if he pulled out the big guns.
And I didn't say Cap and Thor will never rejoin the Avengers... what I said was that right now they're not the core of the Avengers. If you're not in the book, then you're not the core of the book. Right now NEITHER Avengers book is really about Cap or Thor. So if you can pick up any recent issue of NA or MA, and conclude that the core of the book revolves around Cap and/or Thor, then we can agree to disagree.
SquidSquod
03-18-2008, 12:01 AM
I don't think Iron Man is too much of a giveaway. He updates himself handily, certainly has an edge over Doom over practical technology and creative enough to build up a plan to escape the timeline in MA #9. We'll see more in Layton/Michelinie run in April and if you the conflict in a credible comic run, that's not a giveaway. Thor > Dr. Doom except if he's prepping heavily. Impromptu fights without magic Iron Man is balanced going against Dr. Doom.
I'm not looking the whole Avengers roster in a momentary 2003-2008 thing, but as a sweep count from old times to now. Someday the big 3 will come back maybe not as regulars but as a dream team. Besides I can't see any core Avengers when the teams are divided.
I don't think Iron Man is too much of a giveaway. He updates himself handily, certainly has an edge over Doom over practical technology and creative enough to build up a plan to escape the timeline in MA #9. We'll see more in Layton/Michelinie run in April and if you the conflict in a credible comic run, that's not a giveaway. Thor > Dr. Doom except if he's prepping heavily. Impromptu fights without magic Iron Man is balanced going against Dr. Doom.
I'm not looking the whole Avengers roster in a momentary 2003-2008 thing, but as a sweep count from old times to now. Someday the big 3 will come back maybe not as regulars but as a dream team. Besides I can't see any core Avengers when the teams are divided.
Bendis Iron Man/Doom fight is really exactly how a fight between them should go. Doom whips out magic, and Tony loses. It's probable that Tony will find a way to overcome Doom... that's what goodguys do. And I'm sure that Cap, Spidey, or Wolverine would find a way to overcome Doom as well if they had to fight Doom in a comic. That's how comics work. Good guys win, even if the villain is more powerfulThat said, on an even playing field Doom should beat Tony about as easily as he did in their last fight. That's not a diss against Iron Man... Doom is simply that good.
Funny how you're looking at the Avengers from the past until now... the last arguement we had involved you arguing the past didn't matter and all that was important was what the writer was doing right now. Boy do times change.
I think even thought the Avengers are 2 different books, in a lot of ways it's still one story. If I HAD to argue who the core characters were, I'd say Tony and Cage.
SquidSquod
03-18-2008, 12:41 AM
Bendis Iron Man/Doom fight is really exactly how a fight between them should go. Doom whips out magic, and Tony loses. It's probable that Tony will find a way to overcome Doom... that's what goodguys do. And I'm sure that Cap, Spidey, or Wolverine would find a way to overcome Doom as well if they had to fight Doom in a comic. That's how comics work. Good guys win, even if the villain is more powerfulThat said, on an even playing field Doom should beat Tony about as easily as he did in their last fight. That's not a diss against Iron Man... Doom is simply that good.
Funny how you're looking at the Avengers from the past until now... the last arguement we had involved you arguing the past didn't matter and all that was important was what the writer was doing right now. Boy do times change.
I think even thought the Avengers are 2 different books, in a lot of ways it's still one story. If I HAD to argue who the core characters were, I'd say Tony and Cage.
Of course Doom is still better than Iron Man because of the magic factor, but compared to Spidey, Wolverine and Luke Cage, Tony is still a class above them and at least he stands on his own under just tech attack. Didn't Doom ask Tony for repulsor tech? Tony armor's shield holds out longer than Doom before Doom dishes out magic. Doom bots has a good match on Iron bots. Tony satellite is more numerous than Doom. Wolverine can't suddenly become a hacker or nullify Doom energy weapons with his skin. Yeah ultimately heroes win but the conflict approach has to believable.
Wow, do you still have a grudge on me because on my side is always short term memory. I don't remember anything that I discuss before so pray tell what did I say about past didn't matter.
Frank
03-18-2008, 02:47 AM
Eh, I never thought of Thor Cap and IM as the big three. I alwase thought it was the Big Two (Cap and IM) and then everyone else (Thor, Hawkeye, Wasp, Yellowjacket, Ms. Marvel, Wonder Man, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Beast, ect ect...). And with the MU being so interesting as it is right now I could care less if Marvel ever reuintes them. I prefer my Steve Rodgers dead right now.
As long as I was reading the Avengers the big three have always been Thor, Iron Man, Captain America. It was almost an onspoken rule. They represented the best what the Avengers were all about, these super-knights of a futur round table. As far nobility, courage, the ability to inspire Thor, Cap and IM were at the very top of the food chain. And they were the only ones that had their own books, too.
If The Big Three come back together(with Steve) I would like for them to be on Mighty Avengers where the book would keep being an all-star group. Things would be much different that they are now so that Wolverine and Spider-Man would join them as part of these "giants" of Marvel Comics. And Hulk would join too. Along with Doctor Strange and Silver Surfer so basically it would be the top dogs in every fields. And New Avengers would be composed of the more minor characters that have a familiarity like Hawkeye, Wasp, Ms. Marvel, Beast, Wonderman. New recruits of these present times like Spider-Woman would join in too. Cage would return to a street-based squad with Mysty Knights, Colleen Wing, Shang Chi and most other reality-based characters. Heroes for Hire but done right, this time.
jackolover
03-18-2008, 03:01 PM
Bendis Iron Man/Doom fight is really exactly how a fight between them should go. Doom whips out magic, and Tony loses. It's probable that Tony will find a way to overcome Doom... that's what goodguys do. And I'm sure that Cap, Spidey, or Wolverine would find a way to overcome Doom as well if they had to fight Doom in a comic. That's how comics work. Good guys win, even if the villain is more powerful. That said, on an even playing field Doom should beat Tony about as easily as he did in their last fight. That's not a diss against Iron Man... Doom is simply that good.
Did you see what Extremis Tony did to the first Extremis guy. He blew his head off. I think Tony is holding back on most encounters now. (Maybe not against Hulk). But if Tony wanted to kill Doom, he would come pretty close. Besides, Ben Grimm came this close to offing Doom in FF #43, and if it wasn't for Reed, Ben would have finished the job. Doom isn't infallable.
Did you see what Extremis Tony did to the first Extremis guy. He blew his head off. I think Tony is holding back on most encounters now. (Maybe not against Hulk). But if Tony wanted to kill Doom, he would come pretty close. Besides, Ben Grimm came this close to offing Doom in FF #43, and if it wasn't for Reed, Ben would have finished the job. Doom isn't infallable.
Sure, Doom has lower end showings. So does Tony. He had all sorts of trouble with She-Hulk and even Spidey. You can certainly say Tony was holding back. But unless Doom whips out magic, I think we can argue he was holding back against Ben.
What I'm saying is that if Doom goes all out against Tony going all out, Doom will win. They both have comparable armor... but magic is something that Tony and his armor will freely admit that he has no counter to.
Again, thats not a diss against Tony. Right now he's one of the most powerful men on the planet. But Dr. Doom is one of the guys that written well, should be able to handle him. Unless Thor, Sentry, or Strange is around a fully written Doom should be a team level threat.
SquidSquod
03-18-2008, 09:02 PM
I still think Tony has a slight edge in practical tech than Doom. In the panel, Doom shield is already depleting before dishing out magic. Doom's asking for repulsor tech. 6 Iron bots aka Argonauts can decimate the New Avengers easily and give the F4 much trouble.
Doom has a big edge on magic though and prep skill. Tony doesn't like to prep too much. But he's very good in impromptu reacting to threat. That's why Iron Man vs Doom is not so far-fetched, because Tony can be more creative than Doom in solving problems even if he doesn't understand fully in creating time portal. Spider-Man is creative too in engagements, but his smart doesn't compensate enough like what Tony has.
Babylon23
03-18-2008, 09:14 PM
I'm right there with ya'.
I knew you would be. We're definitely in the minority these days.
Kid Kamikaze10
03-18-2008, 09:45 PM
I'd love to see them all back on the Avengers. However, a complete change in the current direction of all of their books, plus the Avengers books, plus the Marvel U in general would be required for it to make any sense at all. I know I'm in the minority, but I can't wait for that shift to occur.
I agree as well, though I may not be a long time reader.
Kid Kamikaze10
03-18-2008, 09:47 PM
Well, thanks. It just so happens Cap really hadn't been an interesting character until CW.
His series never got canceled. An uninteresting character wouldn't have had a series running since the near beginning of Marvel. I mean, many interesting character haven't had titles last a fraction as long as Cap has.
In other words, that's in your opinion.
Shyft
03-18-2008, 09:52 PM
Cap is dead, Thor is annoying (only Herc can pull off Thee and thous) and Iron Man has become some wierd mix of Doctor Doom and Nick Fury. Give me Cage instead of Cap, Iron Fist instead of Iron Man, and Sentry instead of Thor.
Alan2099
03-19-2008, 03:47 AM
I knew you would be. We're definitely in the minority these days.
Weird isn't it? Sometimes I look at Marvel and wonder how it became this strange bizarro world? What kinda world is it where Mr. Fantastic tries cloning dead heroes to turn them into living cyborg weapons, Bucky comes back from the grave, and Ironman leads SHIELD as his own personal Latveria, and Venom and Green Goblin are considered better heroes than Captain America.
Kid Kamikaze10
03-19-2008, 08:38 AM
Weird isn't it? Sometimes I look at Marvel and wonder how it became this strange bizarro world? What kinda world is it where Mr. Fantastic tries cloning dead heroes to turn them into living cyborg weapons, Bucky comes back from the grave, and Ironman leads SHIELD as his own personal Latveria, and Venom and Green Goblin are considered better heroes than Captain America.
Can't say I like it either.
Frank
03-20-2008, 05:02 AM
If we ever see the Big Three together one day, fighting side by side, I will have something in my eye for sure. (make sure bendis doesn't write that because he will screw it up lol)
princesa
03-20-2008, 07:51 PM
I have no desire to see these three together whatsoever. Honestly as big a Cap fan as I am I'm loving CA without him.
Kyle_Ion
03-21-2008, 03:26 PM
I still do not want the big three back together again ever. I can't stand Captain America or Iron Man though I do have to admit that I used to like Iron Man but not anymore.
Slyfer
03-22-2008, 03:19 PM
It needs to happen like yesterday , these guys are the foundation of the Marvel U. We will just have to wait, at least D.C isn't killing any of its Big three yet, Hello Grant :)
It needs to happen like yesterday , these guys are the foundation of the Marvel U. We will just have to wait, at least D.C isn't killing any of its Big three yet, Hello Grant :)
DC will kill of heroes too.
Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, and even Supes or a short while. DC is probably a BIT more likely to actually keep someone dead than marvel.
Bryson the Red
03-22-2008, 03:57 PM
It needs to happen like yesterday , these guys are the foundation of the Marvel U. We will just have to wait, at least D.C isn't killing any of its Big three yet, Hello Grant :)
I don't follow DC too close, but I keep hearing that they're gonna kill Batman soon.
Shyft
03-22-2008, 04:59 PM
DC will kill of heroes too.
Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, and even Supes or a short while. DC is probably a BIT more likely to actually keep someone dead than marvel.
only because DC is so fond of Superhero titles being dynasties, even the big hero names - Marvel tried that line in the 90's, and it really, really didnt work. There are certain hero titles/powers that work fine in legacies, Ant-Man/general growing shrinking powers being one example. However in MU the whole War Machine/Thunderstrike/Scarlet Spider/USAgent/8 different Spider-Women thing clearly didnt go down so well.
Although Marvel is starting to creep it back in. Ronin, Venom, Cap, Hulk - all have changed hands a bit recently.
only because DC is so fond of Superhero titles being dynasties, even the big hero names - Marvel tried that line in the 90's, and it really, really didnt work. There are certain hero titles/powers that work fine in legacies, Ant-Man/general growing shrinking powers being one example. However in MU the whole War Machine/Thunderstrike/Scarlet Spider/USAgent/8 different Spider-Women thing clearly didnt go down so well.
Although Marvel is starting to creep it back in. Ronin, Venom, Cap, Hulk - all have changed hands a bit recently.
Even the Pym growth/shrinking legacies have had a 50/50 fatality rate. Rita, Scott Lang, and Bill Foster are RIP. But there's a new Ant-Man, plus Stature. And I guess Atlas kind of counts too.
stelok
03-23-2008, 09:18 AM
"Big 3"?
Captain America, Iron Man and Thor= Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman
Captain America= Superman
Iron Man= Batman
Thor= Wonder Woman
Sure why not bring the Big 3 of Marvel back together?
Kyle_Ion
03-24-2008, 05:50 PM
"Big 3"?
Captain America, Iron Man and Thor= Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman
Captain America= Superman
Iron Man= Batman
Thor= Wonder Woman
Sure why not bring the Big 3 of Marvel back together?
actually I see it differently, this is how I see the three
Captain America= Wonder Woman
Iron Man= Batman
Thor= Superman
"Big 3"?
Captain America, Iron Man and Thor= Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman
Captain America= Superman
Iron Man= Batman
Thor= Wonder Woman
Sure why not bring the Big 3 of Marvel back together?
I think there's a slight difference between the Avengers big 3 and Marvel's big 3 though.
Cap, Thor, and Iron Man are the Big 3 of the Avengers.
But Marvel's Big 3 is probably Spidey, Wolverine, and Hulk.
Shyft
03-24-2008, 05:59 PM
actually I see it differently, this is how I see the three
Captain America= Wonder Woman
Iron Man= Batman
Thor= Superman
Hows that? Wonder Woman is the princess of a race closely connected with the gods, THor was/is the prince/king of a pantheon of Gods.
Superman and Cap are symbols, both of what humanity could and should be, and also closely linked with the Classic American dream.
Honestly, the Avengers big 3 don't match up perfectly with the JLA Trinity.
Cap is a little bit Superman, and a little bit Batman.
Thor can be seen as a cross between Supes and Wonder Woman.
Tony Stark is very similiar to Bruce Wayne, but Iron Man isn't all that similar to Batman.
You'd have to really mix and match to pair them up.
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