Darwyn Cooke's The New Frontier......your thoughts on this?

[Always Hungry]

Is it a classic? A good read? So-so? Where does it rank in terms of DC classics? Top ten?

I'm hoping the library will have the Absolute Edition in the future.

[Jack Zodiac]

DC stories? Easily the best DC story ever written (unless you count Sandman as a DC story). And it's definitely in my top ten greatest comics published by any company, by any creator, in any genre ever. Cooke understands superheroes better than half the people writing superhero comics today, and he's able to craft a really deep, interesting, symbolic story with those characters others are only able to tell stock-basic stories with. New Frontier gives you a really nice, penetrative look at who these superheroes are and what they stand for, while creating a rich, historic feeling around them.

And if you can, definitely read the Absolute edition.

[K'Nort]

It's probably my all-time favorite DCU story.

Libraries tend to avoid the Absolute editions though. Not at all cost-effective. Especially because they walk away. 25 US libraries have it so far. Plus two in Singapore. (?) It's neat that several holdings are art school libraries. You could always try for ILL, though.

[Sir Tim Drake]

It's the best DC comic of the decade. I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to find the original issues.

[echopryme]

I have to agree about comics this decade by DC. I wouldn't say it's the best DC has done, but it is the best in the last 10 years.

But more than anything, it's nice to see these silver age characters in a book that's NOT another writer pining for "Challenge of the Super Friends" the way that Justice was.

It takes the characters and shows them as a realistic (as much as can be) portrayal of what these characters would actually have expected to be during the beginnings of the Cold War and the McCarthy era.

It's ****in' Amazing...

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I hate to repeat what's already been said again, but New Frontier is easily one of the best things DC has done in decades.

[matt levin]

Please say why y'all think this's so great--
no, no: I haven't read it, and hate to think I've missed something this good.
I avoided ordering it as I generally don't like 'team' books, especially most 'team-up' books, and am pretty much out of the superhero world, generally, these days. But good writing is good writing and good writing in comics is, well, not a rarity, but certainly is something worth searching out.

so, please, I'm already a DC...heh, I mean Darwyn Cooke--fan, so telling me it's a comic with good writing only tells me DC has put together a superhero superteam team-up book; I knew that, and because of the genre, didn't order. So, please, tell me why you so greatly enjoy this series. Thanks!

Matt

[mgs]

excellent idea, awesome execution. What's to discuss? :)

to be a classic, I think it may need a few years to hold true for future generations of fans, but I think that is most likely to happen.

[K'Nort]

Please say why y'all think this's so great--
no, no: I haven't read it, and hate to think I've missed something this good.
I avoided ordering it as I generally don't like 'team' books, especially most 'team-up' books, and am pretty much out of the superhero world, generally, these days. But good writing is good writing and good writing in comics is, well, not a rarity, but certainly is something worth searching out.

so, please, I'm already a DC...heh, I mean Darwyn Cooke--fan, so telling me it's a comic with good writing only tells me DC has put together a superhero superteam team-up book; I knew that, and because of the genre, didn't order. So, please, tell me why you so greatly enjoy this series. Thanks!

Matt

I enjoy team-up books, but that's not really how I would define New Frontier. Instead, you have many different solo stories that eventually come together for a common purpose.

It also helps to have an affection for the C and D-list characters. He uses so many.

Plus the art. It was just so clean and snappy and fun.

[Shellhead]

The artwork really didn't interest me, so I skipped it. I could see that he was going for a retro '50s thing, but it just looked too simplistic. But after hearing so many great things, and now there's the cartoon, I gave the recent New Frontier Special a try. The first story was good, but the other two were pretty light filler material. Nice early silver age nostalgia, but I didn't think it was worth the full $5.00. I would be willing to pick up a reasonably-priced trade of the original series, but I'm not paying major bucks for a hardbound edition.

[mgs]

The artwork really didn't interest me, so I skipped it.

I think what will make this a classic is not necessarily that people immediately like all aspects of it, but that, over time, they at least appreciate it (Hell, I didn't like Watchmen at first), what it was and what it said. They also recognize it's influence (hopefully positive) over other aspects of the comic medium. I think this will make what Darwyn did a classic in the near future. :)

[K'Nort]

I would be willing to pick up a reasonably-priced trade of the original series, but I'm not paying major bucks for a hardbound edition.

The paperback is currently only available in two volumes.

[matt levin]

"excellent idea, awesome execution. What's to discuss? :) "

what's the 'idea'?

and -how- is the execution awesome (I liked the above description of the art as 'snappy' which is just how I'd describe All Star Superman, for instance, and I like that) ? I'm definitely a words plus pictures guy, for whom great words will sometimes carry less than great art, but only rarely has really terrific art ever saved a poorly worded story for me.


thanks for all the input--
may very well look into the softcover trade. Yeah, the $5 was a turn-off.

Matt

[Bored at 3:00AM]

"excellent idea, awesome execution. What's to discuss? :) "

what's the 'idea'?

and -how- is the execution awesome (I liked the above description of the art as 'snappy' which is just how I'd describe All Star Superman, for instance, and I like that) ? I'm definitely a words plus pictures guy, for whom great words will sometimes carry less than great art, but only rarely has really terrific art ever saved a poorly worded story for me.


thanks for all the input--
may very well look into the softcover trade. Yeah, the $5 was a turn-off.

Matt

Cooke threads together about several seperate storylines featuring dozens of different and interesting characters in their most primal forms, culminating in a shocker that ties them all together. Then he layers on political and social commentary of American society. He re-examines characters with an adult eye without losing any of the child-like wonder or imagination that made them great in the first place.

And there's lots of Hot Man on Dinosaur Action.

[K'Nort]

It's about the Red Scare era, basically. Cooke even mentions in the DVD commentary that he was amazed that people didn't talk much about what he worried were too obvious analogies to Communism.

It's set in the era between the Golden Age and the Silver Age. So the Justice League part of the title is a little misleading, in that it's more of an origin story. There is no League. Instead, it's how the characters get to a point of creating one.

Mostly it's social/political. If you have superpowers, but the govt and most of the public distrusts you, how obligated are you to be a hero anyway? (Shades of the Marvel universe, I guess.) And if they try to actually arrest you for it, do you still try to be a hero? Or do you say to heck with them? And a lot about what actually is heroism, of course. And what do you do when you have loyalty to the govt and yet you think they're doing the wrong thing. And how anyone with leftist ideas of helping people got monitored and persecuted by the govt for being enemies of the state because they sort of kind of had philosophies in common with socialism and thus supported Stalin and the overthrow of democracy. Really, all the standard McCarthy stuff.

[niall mc cann]

It's about the Red Scare era, basically. Cooke even mentions in the DVD commentary that he was amazed that people didn't talk much about what he worried were too obvious analogies to Communism.

That's one of the things that rankles with me about the book, actually. 50 years ago, it would have been daring and have had something interesting to say; today? It's a fun curio, like a superhero story set during the napoleonic wars; really well told, beautiful, beautiful art, not particularly relevant to a modern audience, I would think.

It's possibly making some comparison to modern politics; that would be cool if so. It's heart really does seem stuck in the late fifties/early sixties, though. I got nothing against it, but for me it does tend to make it less than it might have been. Which I totally accept is an unfair criticism and put my hands up about.

[CaptainCanada]

It's highly, highly overrated. Cooke's cherubic art is unsuited to a dramatic story, there are virtually no character arcs, and the plot is just a loose collection of vignettes.

[Jack Zodiac]

So Hal Jordan's transformation from unsure Korean War pilot to selfless superhero... that's not a character arc? And I don't know how you're getting that Cooke's art is "cherubic" when it's very clearly a retro-fitted Fifties comic art style. Unless you're being ironic, unnecessarily critical, or copy and pasted that mini-critique from somebody else who had no idea what they were talking about.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I guess J'Onn doesn't have a character arc either, but wait, he does.

Even Batman, as small a role as he plays, has a very interesting character arc.

[Jack Zodiac]

Hell, even Rick Flag has a character arc. Short, well outside of the Absolute edition, but really solid. In fact, aside from a handful of heroes who show up sporadically, every character has a strong build up. Hal, Barry, J'onn, even Carol and Faraday.

[Corrina]

I think the essential question is "what makes a hero?"

And there's the transition from the McCarthy era to the new type of Silver Age hero. There's King Faraday, representing the government interested in controlling and locking down those with powers because they're a threat and a move to openness and trust, signified by the new heroes, Flash & Green Lantern and especially the Martian Manhunter, who's terrified at the level of violence on his new home but learns to be optimistic about humanity.

It's about people becoming heroes, whether they wear a costume or not, whether they win or lose. It feels very mythic and epic to me.

It also has the best written Martian Manhunter, Hal Jordan, and maybe even Barry Allen that I've ever read. I'm not the least bit interested in Hal Jordan, never have been. But this book made me love him.

I agree that maybe the first two single issues started slower but it really does all pull together and it has some of the best comic moments that I've read: The end of the Loser's story, Rick Flagg & Karin, Hal thrilling in the power of the ring, Faraday/J'onn, the great panel where Wonder Woman shows up in Jimmy Olsen's camera lens.....

[Jolly Mon]

I'm prepared to branded a heretic (again), but I have tried on a couple of occasions to read New Frontier (for free from the library) and I can't get past the art. To my eyes, it is just ugly. Wonder Woman is short and fat, and looks like a roller-derby queen. I could go on, but her's is the image that stuck with me. And people will say it is supposed to be a 50's-retro thing, but I don't remember comics from the 50's looking that bad. As for the writing, I can't say because I couldn't look at it long enough to be able to tell.

[Jack Zodiac]

Hey, it's okay, man. You don't have to feel bad for not liking great art. Lots of people don't, and they feel great about it.

[Jolly Mon]

Hey, it's okay, man. You don't have to feel bad for not liking great art. Lots of people don't, and they feel great about it.

I don't feel bad about it, it's more like a dog that's been beaten too much. I'm just used to being jumped on something awful if I say anything against something that everyone else loves.

And if the writing is as good as everyone says, I really wish I could get past the art.

[Jack Zodiac]

Yep. Shame ya' don't like his style, which I think is !@#$ing crazy, but I'm not gonna berate you for it; because the story alone is amazing. Have you watched the movie yet? It isn't quite as deep, but it's still pretty great, and the animation is a little less cartoonish (if you can believe it) than Cooke's art, though I think it manages to capture his style decently enough.

[mgs]

what's the 'idea'?

I think Bored explained it much better than I could. ;)It's highly, highly overrated. Cooke's cherubic art is unsuited to a dramatic story

Cherubic? Sometimes his characters have a soft quality to them, but not all of them, and certainly that's not the overall tone of his art.