Grant Morrison and the Dark Knight

[Swapmeetfever]

Grant Talks About upcoming events in the Batverse
http://comics.ign.com/articles/857/857602p1.html

[Chiroptera]

The more I read the more I find this compelling urge to punch Morrison in the face.
But then that's because of my own personal sickening with the continious push to change characters. I've seen so many damn character changes over the past year that I'm getting SICK of change. Pick a personality and stick with it for atleats half a month dammit!

[SpaceBooger]

I have been haveing a hard time following this story and I am sure it will make more sense when I reread it as a trade, but...

I dont mind for drastic change if it is done for a good story, not for shock value. If the story is awesome then I don't mind change... if it is just to shake things up then I am not a fan.

[ChairthrowerLad]

Personally, that interview makes me really excited. Of course, as a confessed Morrison addict I am willing to drink the Kool Aid, but he is such a great story teller and easily the most creative mind in comics. If anyone is going to change Batman then I am ok with it being him.

I don't know what to say. So far his run on Batman has been incredible...I mean, even if DC retcon punches it all away we will still have gotten to read a very good story.

[Baron Banter]

The more I read the more I find this compelling urge to punch Morrison in the face.

I'll hold him.

[BrikHed21]

Maybe I am the only one (though I know different) but I am really starting to see some method to the madness with Morrison. How many other books have you pulling about past comics that are 10 issues back to find clues to tie into the next 5 or 6 issues. I know a lot of people like what is going on with Detective and the one-shot approach.... personally for me this is what I want in a book.

Call me crazy but I am more excited about Batman than I have been in a long time. This is starting to get the buzz that Hush did but I have much higher aspirations after it is all said and done.

[Earl of the RCs]

As a casual fan of Dickens and RL Stevenson and all that other old school stuff that was originally published in serial form BITD, I think its great for a comic to take advantage of the story telling possibilities such a publishing method presents, and I think thats what Morrison is doing. Each issue really does feel like a single chapter of an ongoing story; and its getting more and more injoyable with `the end' in site. But kudos to DC for having the foresite to know that this writing method isn't everyone's cup of tea and simultaneously giving us Dini's one/two shots in 'tec. This kind of `buy what kind of batman tale suits you' (and you can include Outsiders and soon Trinity in your decision making) seams a much better idea for a character carrying mutiple books than say publishing three issues of the one title a month. (not mentioning any names).

[cap5]

Grant Morrison is doing a great job on Batman so far expesely with the three Batman story in 672-674. I think This is the best Batman has been in a long time.

[The Shadow]

So far his run on Batman has been incredible
... I think we're reading different Batman comics.

His run has been good... but nothing more.

[ChairthrowerLad]

... I think we're reading different Batman comics.

His run has been good... but nothing more.

Like I said...I am an admitted Member of the Cult of Morrison.

:p

[The Shadow]

Like I said...I am an admitted Member of the Cult of Morrison.

:p

Fair enough.

I've just been reading Batman so long and have so many issues to compare against that as of right now (and Morrison's big story isn't done) his stuff's been good... just not great.

The arc with JG Jones was awesome though.

[Choppa]

If the ultimate villian turns out to be someone from some obscure story from the 60's that I've never heard of, I will be dissapointed.

[carabas]

The way Morrison uses continuity from the dark ages, he generally does it in a way so that if a reader isn't remotely familiar with the source, he doesn't really miss much. It's just a nice bonus for DC archaeologists.

[Captain Jim]

Grant Talks About upcoming events in the Batverse
http://comics.ign.com/articles/857/857602p1.html

Anybody think the "man behind the curtain" might be the Joker?

[the goddamn batman]

Anybody think the "man behind the curtain" might be the Joker?

Absolutely. I won't be shocked if it isn't though.

[spidervenom]

Fair enough.

I've just been reading Batman so long and have so many issues to compare against that as of right now (and Morrison's big story isn't done) his stuff's been good... just not great.

The arc with JG Jones was awesome though.

He did an arc with jg jones?

[flapjaxx]

Anybody think the "man behind the curtain" might be the Joker?

I wouldn't say he IS the mastermind/Black Glove, but there is some connection.

From the end of chapter 6 in the all-prose issue:

The mosquito, meanwhile...shudders and falls from the Joker's hand. Blind and crippled, it spins in circles on the radiant floor, choking on tainted blood.... He watches the tiny life go out, listens to the fading whine as it slowly curls up, like a hand becoming a fist, and dies.


The connection to Black Glove here is the similarity this has with the many visuals of the black hand closing that are placed throughout the Club of Heroes story. (And another such hand is shown to appear on an upcoming cover penciled by Tony Daniel.)

We've also got the following clues: 1) Batman went into Dr. Hurt's sensory deprivation chamber to get a clue into the Joker's psyche. 2) The first replacement Batman shot the Joker--what that means, if anything significant as to the identity of the mastermind--I don't know. But it does seem that at least the IDEA of the Joker is very close to the process.

Morrison has hinted about a new Joker, too, but I think that this is something he's going to get back to after "Batman R.I.P.", not during. Though I'm not sure if this means that the new Joker will be a further variation or just the full-on escape from Arkham of the already-metamorphosing Joker we saw in the prose issue.

EDIT: Um, actually maybe there's a closer connection than I thought, because here's what Tony Daniel posted in his blog about the first official issue of the "R.I.P." arc: "I just drew one of my favorite villains of all time and I wasn't expecting it until I got the script. I can't say who, but I'm hoping people will be floored when they see him in 676."

[filthysize]

Maybe I am the only one (though I know different) but I am really starting to see some method to the madness with Morrison. How many other books have you pulling about past comics that are 10 issues back to find clues to tie into the next 5 or 6 issues. I know a lot of people like what is going on with Detective and the one-shot approach.... personally for me this is what I want in a book.

It's funny... I'm real happy about both, but at the beginning I was more pleased with Dini's approach, because I thought Morrison was just going through the standard mini-arcs approach. He's writing good stories, but not as impressive as how Dini was doing caped Law & Orders each month.

Then I started to see Morrison's big picture and it's really exciting to anticipate what each new issue is going to add to this weird trip he's taking Batman through, while on the flip side Dini continues to deliver solid work but it's starting to become a little stale.

[filthysize]

Oh, and I'm betting on the ultimate villain/Black Glove being Joker too. I know it's calling on status quo again because it's Joker, but it's about the only one that makes sense to me at the moment.

Morrison had Joker going through the metamorphosis in the prose story, and what Batman is going through right now is sort of the same thing--it's Batman's transformation. They both almost died being shot by a fake Batman, and they're both emerging as new men. Maybe Bruce will end up in a post-Batman state, like bodhisattva.

[ChairthrowerLad]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Joker. In fact, I hope it is. It would add symmetry to the whole thing.

Also, Morrison has hinted at Joker being so crazy that it is a essentially super power. If I remember correctly he hinted at Joker being able to break the fourth wall on some of his more insane days. Or I may have dreamed that tidbit...who knows...

EDIT:
The way Morrison uses continuity from the dark ages, he generally does it in a way so that if a reader isn't remotely familiar with the source, he doesn't really miss much. It's just a nice bonus for DC archaeologists.

I mean, look at the freaking Key. When he first showed up in JLA he was completely different character and pretty darn cool.

[flapjaxx]

Oh, and I'm betting on the ultimate villain/Black Glove being Joker too. I know it's calling on status quo again because it's Joker, but it's about the only one that makes sense to me at the moment.

I'm betting on heavy involvement, but I'm still not sure he is the one mastermind behind everything. "Joker = Black Glove" implies that "Joker = Dr Hurt" as well, which doesn't seem likely at all.

I mean... Would he have the first replacement Batman shoot him? In the prose issue he seemed under the impression that the REAL Batman had shot him, and Batman was trying to convince him otherwise ("I didn't shoot you"). If the Joker is "becoming something else" while in Arkham, he would have already had to have been the mastermind beforehand to engineer the shooting--so I doubt he did.

I can certainly see that having the Joker return would throw an excellent dynamic into things. I am really hoping that Black Glove is an original villain, though, not a mask for the Joker or anyone else. At least from Daniel's blog we know that an established BIG villain will at least appear during "Batman R.I.P.", though.

[carabas]

I think it's extremely doubtful that the Black Glove is the Joker. There's been no jokes, for starters.

It can see the Joker temporarily teaming up with Bats, taking the fight to the Mystery Master Mind. Batman is his personal nemesis, and the Joker does not like to share. Certainly not with some johny-come-lately MMM.

[JohnShil]

He did an arc with jg jones?

I think he means the Club of Heroes arc (667-669) with J. H. Williams III.

[carabas]

He did Marvel Boy with JG Jones though. Rarely has an artist done that well turning Morisson's madness into pictures.

[ZombieHavoc]

I enjoyed Morrison's first arc ok.

But everything since has been pretty boring, in my opinion.

Sometimes I love Morrison (JLA), and other times I think I just don't get what he's trying to do.

[MartianBlonde]

Come on guys, it's obviously...Alfred! He's being manipulating Bruce from the start, and now he's going to finish him off.

No, I don't seriously believe this, but I think I'd find it kind of cool.

[Bat-Reader]

i hope this won't turn out to be The Dada Knight in the end.

[Netley]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was Joker. In fact, I hope it is. It would add symmetry to the whole thing.

Also, Morrison has hinted at Joker being so crazy that it is a essentially super power. If I remember correctly he hinted at Joker being able to break the fourth wall on some of his more insane days. Or I may have dreamed that tidbit...who knows...

EDIT:


I mean, look at the freaking Key. When he first showed up in JLA he was completely different character and pretty darn cool.

YEAH Morrison described the Joker as actually having a "hyper-sanity" or something, where he just saw the world more sanely than everyone else,but that's why we can only perceive him as crazy (eye of the beholder and whatnot). Yeah that was back in his amazing JLA run! I think in that same arc Martian Manhunter shape-shifts his brain to think like the Joker so they can make it out of some maze that the Joker trapped them in.

I guess what I'm saying is yeah, Morrison has mad respect for the Joker! (Arkham Asylum, anyone?) And wasn't the first page of his first Batman issue a fight between a fake Batman and Joker? Symmetry indeed.

And hell yes I remember Morrison's Key, that was a cool arc! Rock of Ages was pretty monumental too (more going on at once than any other comic I had ever read at the time haha)!

The Joker breaking the fourth wall aspect you mention intrigues me! I don't remember Joker doing this, and it's my favorite concept in the medium of comics (and which, Morrison has done in Animal Man in the 80s - one of the first to do so? The first?). Bendis/Gaydos' Purple Man from Alias is the latest character to break the fourth wall (that I've read). And I'm hoping Ambush Bug will again in his upcoming mini. That's good stuff.

I wonder how Morrison will tie his Batman epic into Final Crisis exactly (other than, I guess, killing him (?).

[Leocomix]

Morrison's writing is extremely demanding. I don't know how youngters could really appreciate all the layers. It's harder to figure then American Flagg. This is why it's so rejoicing. If you put the effort in it the rewards are tenfold. Plus it fits the detective theme.

[Captain Jim]

Morrison's writing is extremely demanding. I don't know how youngters could really appreciate all the layers. It's harder to figure then American Flagg. This is why it's so rejoicing. If you put the effort in it the rewards are tenfold. Plus it fits the detective theme.

I think that's probably why I usually don't care for Morrison that much. I like comics as light reading, I don't want to work hard to figure out what's going on.

[dotdotdot]

I think that's probably why I usually don't care for Morrison that much. I like comics as light reading, I don't want to work hard to figure out what's going on.

i'm the opposite. i think these things seriously, and i want to have to do some work as an audience. otherwise you don't get much out of it.
that said, you don't have to work very hard at all to get morrison's work. just any extra effort is an affront to many a comics fan.

[dotdotdot]

Morrison's writing is extremely demanding. I don't know how youngters could really appreciate all the layers. It's harder to figure then American Flagg. This is why it's so rejoicing. If you put the effort in it the rewards are tenfold. Plus it fits the detective theme.


i wouldn't say it's very demanding. but rewarding on rereads.
i've gone through the filth at least 4 times and i'm sure there's more there for the fifth read. but then, we3 is as straightforward as you get, while still making you think a bit. reading comics really isn't for the lazy.

[JDeVille]

I wouldn't say he IS the mastermind/Black Glove, but there is some connection.

From the end of chapter 6 in the all-prose issue:



The connection to Black Glove here is the similarity this has with the many visuals of the black hand closing that are placed throughout the Club of Heroes story. (And another such hand is shown to appear on an upcoming cover penciled by Tony Daniel.)

We've also got the following clues: 1) Batman went into Dr. Hurt's sensory deprivation chamber to get a clue into the Joker's psyche. 2) The first replacement Batman shot the Joker--what that means, if anything significant as to the identity of the mastermind--I don't know. But it does seem that at least the IDEA of the Joker is very close to the process.

Morrison has hinted about a new Joker, too, but I think that this is something he's going to get back to after "Batman R.I.P.", not during. Though I'm not sure if this means that the new Joker will be a further variation or just the full-on escape from Arkham of the already-metamorphosing Joker we saw in the prose issue.

EDIT: Um, actually maybe there's a closer connection than I thought, because here's what Tony Daniel posted in his blog about the first official issue of the "R.I.P." arc: "I just drew one of my favorite villains of all time and I wasn't expecting it until I got the script. I can't say who, but I'm hoping people will be floored when they see him in 676."

Nah. the ultimate villain, the only one who could beat Batman is....


Himself!

Only Batman can beat Batman, maybe he created an personal OMAC-like plan for himself in case he snapped. Or something like that.